# FINALLY, ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5!!!!!!!!



## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I have cycled my 15G tank with media from 90g tank for 3 weeks.. like it supposes to be, i had ammonia spike then nitrite spike( well upto 0.5) with nitrate up. 

I measured it today and finally, ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 today!!! i measured it 3 times to make sure i get the correct reading.

. It will be my shrimp tank and i'm dying to add them as there are crazy sales going on... I understand patient is absolute must in this hobby but do you think my tank is cycled?? should i do water change tomorrow( fridays are water change day for me. )?? when can you say tank is cycled? (e.g. ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5 for 3 days??).

I was really lucky with 90G as I got the mature tank and only transferred it so I did not have to cycle it.. it has been reading ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 10 over a month.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

What kind of ammonia source have you been using to cycle the tank? Shrimp don't produce a high bioload, so as long as you had enough ammonia in it, I'm sure they'll be fine.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

they are 2 feeder fishes( yes... feeder fishes from my girls' summer camp 6weeks ago) I have been using stability for 2 weeks as well.. will water change tomorrow take out BB??


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## Sweetpea (Nov 7, 2011)

Beneficial bacteria is now understood to live on surfaces (gravel, plants, decor, biomedia in your filter, etc.), not in the water column, so the water change will not remove them. Re. your ammonia source, I've heard many others caution about the dangers of using feeder fish to cycle a tank (or to feed other fish, for that matter) because they supposedly carry a high risk of introducing diseases to the tank. Would shrimp be in danger from this, or just other fish? Perhaps with shrimp it's just pristine water quality you need to worry about. I'm curious what other people think about this.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks for the input sweetpea! hmm I did not know that... 

I had no choice as they were brought by my daughters.. I could not let them just die( that's how i got back into this hobby  ). At that time(6 weeks ago), i had no clue about cycling so I lost 4 feeders..

hmmm i hope these guys don't carry anything.. i'm planning to give these guys to LFS or put them in 3G tank that is not in use.. (perhaps will use 3g tank as a quarantine tank)


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Shrimp won't be bothered by "scale" based disease like ich, since they have exoskeletons. I'm fairly certain most feeder fish based parasites wouldn't effect shrimp either, based on the small digestive tract besides that from beginning to end, but don't quote me on this. I think you'd be more likely to harm them by treating a shared tank with medication if they're in it, then them actually being infected by fish. But I could be totally out of my mind with this opinion. I haven't seen any disease like symptoms, or treated a tank with shrimp in it, so I really have no experience with that first hand.

I'd still prefer to use another ammonia based source (ADA aqua soil, or just pure ammonia, maybe fish food or a thawed prawn) rather than feeder fish, or any other fish that wouldn't otherwise be a source of food for that matter. But it's a learning experience no matter how it's achieved.

What are you other parameters like? PH\KH\GH, temperature? What kind of shrimp are you thinking of? Cherries to start, or Amanos? Those two are typically the first ones people acquire.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks effox! it's PH 7.2 ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 KH 3, GH 4 @76F. i'm thinking of Red Cherry for 1. cheap 2. hardier than other shrimps according to research 3.my girls love them so much . I understand it's not good to put yellow or blue shrimp with RCS but i may get 10 of them and 20 RCS.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

KH 3 and GH 4 is a good start. Are you buffering right now, or is the substrate or rocks doing it for you? I think I had my KH and GH at about 4 and the shrimp were doing great, very active and molting without issues.

It's not that it's "not good", it's just that they're all from the same "family". The issue is they'll interbreed, and those once nice colours you paid for, and were able to enjoy, won't be around down the line the majority of the time. I believe they'll come out a muttled brownish colour.

RCS are the cheapest, as they're hardy and breed prolifically, the yellows\greens and then blues typically cost more. I also believe the blue varieties, unless bred in locally, may need different water parameters than our commonly available RCS? Make sure you know the water parameters of the tanks they each come from prior to purchase is basically what I'm getting at.

I've kept yellows and cherries together when I first started, simply because I didn't care about them breeding at that time, and just wanted some variety.

Shrimps can be surprisingly entertaining to watch for their size.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

This my shrimp tank.. I think the subtrate( natural black moon sand) is doing buffering. I'm not sure... can't wait to get RCSs!! will get them after water change later today.. However, I will test the water once again before the purchase!! Thank you so much effox!!


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Post some pics when they're settled in!


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

not sure if this has been mentioned but if your using prime to make the ammonia harmless it can give your tests a false reading  make sure you keep testing everyday fora while I know its a pain but 24hr of bad ammonia could kill some of your fish.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Solid call, and shrimp are far more sensitive to toxins.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I only used stability on my shrimp tank. will it also effect reading? i measured it before i put it in my tank. i just tested it. and it's still the same.. SHRIMPS!!!!! :bigsmile:


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

from what ive read stability does not effect any tests


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks! MEDHBSI! 

I just tested KH/GH after WC.. i got 2KH and 3GH.. Am i going to be in trouble if i introduce shrimps tomorrow? I heard that baking soda is good to bring these up. how much should i add in my 90G and 15G tank? 

thanks,


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

As far as I know baking soda raises pH and NOT KH/GH. I believe if you were to add it you would have a whacko pH that would be crashing in your tank since your KH/GH is so low. I'm not 100% sure but that's what I believe it does. I use epsom salt and aquarium salt to buffer my hardness.


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

I think the lvl's you have now are the bare minimum to stop ph swings but I'm no expert in the topic I drip my water constantly so its always the same


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks guys! I won't add anything until any big water parameter change happens.. I'm not a huge fan of adding too much chemicals into the water..


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I had my KH\GH at around 4, and that was enough (probably should have kept it a bit higher on top of that).

Baking soda and Epsom salt was they way to do it in the 90's for raising PH/KH and GH respectively. That was before more beneficial means became public though. I'd high recommend looking for aquarium specific buffering for our soft watersheds. If $$$ is an issue (when isn't it?) be sure to test prior to adding it to the 15g. Short term you'll get an idea of what it's capable of, and longer term you'll need to replenish buffering at least with water changes to be effective either way.

KH will typically prevent PH fluctuations, and GH will at least help with molting issues for your shrimp. I don't remember what the bottle was, but there was a very generous lady here by the name of Sherry, and she gave me an awesome tip, and that was the "Africian cichilid" buffer (too long ago to remember, so hopefully someone will know what I'm talking about and be able to say what brand\where to get it is) worked very favourably when I was struggling at first.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

hmmm lots to learn!  I can't thank you enough for all information!! maybe that explains why my plants are not growing fast enough and bolivian rams are pale/stressed in my show tank. I gotta research more on raising GH/KH up.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

Rift Lake Buffer Recipe - Cichlid Salt This is a "homemade" buffer commonly used for African cichlids that I currently use. Note that it does raise the pH quite a bit so it may not be what you are looking for. As for an african cichlid buffer that effox is talking about.. I have a bottle of "NUTRAFIN AFRICAN CICHLID CONDITIONER". The bottle says "Safely increases the General Hardness (GH), creates optimal aquatic mineral balance, and is ideal for african cichlids (freshwater fish only). More specifically it says it builds a calcium to magnesium ratio of 3:1 and provides 5.1mg/L of potassium per dose which can aid in reproduction and colour enhancement. It's a 250mL bottle with a $13.00 price tag and 5 mL treats 10 gallons. So that's 50 water changes for a 20 gallon tank doing 50% water changes I believe! If that's what effox is talking about you can have this bottle for free from me but you'd have to pick it up (could even be cheaper just buying one from a store that's close to you.. damn gas prices) but let me know if you would like it!


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I did the research and found that rocks that I took out because of slow PH increase are coral rock.. ( I mentioned it on another thread). should I put this back in?? i guess it worked as buffering method as it was KH 3 GH 4 when I tested it or should i wait for 24hours before I tested it again?? will KH/GH change if i wait?? i guess something in my 2 tanks buffers water as both were kH 3 GH4 before WC... my show tank has not had any PH swing before.. maybe because of coral rocks... the last thing i want is tohave 2 PH crused tank...


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## peppy2013 (Feb 19, 2013)

I use Nutrafin african cichlid conditioner for the GH and Nutrafin KH booster in my shrimp tank.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

It was the Nutrafin African Cichlid Conditioner that I was introduced to. Thanks peppy!

The KH and GH will drop after a water change, since out of the tap it's essentially 0 for both.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

@steve, thank you! I may pick it up when i'm heading to d/t.. lol you are right gas price is the highest in north america..

Should I add this product now if i get it or wait till the next WC? Based on what I research, PH will raise if you add this kinda product.. 


Is there anyone who has CRS or BKK shrimps? those need low PH to breed and I don't know how they do it ( other than driftwood or peat moss). Before this thread, I thought that I only have to worry about ammonia/nitrite/nitrate... lol

Here is my dilemma. I want to raise GH/KH but then I will start playing with PH which beginners like me is not recommended. 
What do you guys think?? BTW I will put that big coral rock back into my show tank...

update: I just got 25 RCS and am getting ready to put in my shrimps tank! it will take 1hr but excited!!! :bigsmile:


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Day 3 on shrimp tank.. I have not lost shrimps yet.. these guys are surprisingly active that i have hard time counting them.
Thank you everyone (especially effox!!  ) for helping me set this up.

@effox you are right about shrimp tank! I have a small chair in front of the tank to sit and watch these guys.. It's as much fun as looking at my Bolivian rams!!!! :bigsmile:


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