# UPDATE: Swim Bladder problem in my kitumba Female



## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

I really need help if anyone can recommend anything I cant lose this female everyone else is fine and water parameters are spot on and tank is super duper clean but for a week now she has been at the top and wedging herself under a log to stay down at night she is eating but not pooing and i have tried peas she wont eat them and have dosed with maracyn 2 what else can I do I just cant kill her


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

Sorry Mods I posted in the wrong section you can move if you wan't I appologize


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## bigfry (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you tried Epsom salts. I have to look up the amount per gallon...

Perhaps no feeding for a couple of days so everyone has a cleaned stomach.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

ive heard it can be caused when they feed from the top and get air in their stomach, salts are supposed to be the best cure without using a needle to suck it out which i would never attempt but thats what came up when googling it


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

moved to hospital section for you


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

is she bloated or floated? Two different types of problem.
Bloated - infection and belly gets huge. Swim normal.
Floated - head down, tail up, trying to stay down by swimming hard downward.

Bloat - try epsom salt.

Float - damage air bladder. I can operate but it is the last thing you want to do. I assume yours are F1. Very rare to see F1 fish get floated. There is nothing much you can do about that. People have tried different method like putting an eggcrate so it will stay down. Or darken the tank for 3 days without feeding. But in my experience, any stress will trigger this condition again; even a simple thing as water change.



Mferko said:


> ive heard it can be caused when they feed from the top and get air in their stomach


Not true. And people also said aviod air stone because it likes to swallow the air bubble, not true as well.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I have done the operation with my wild mpimbwe and wild kitumba.

Kitumba was fine. One operation by inserting a very fine syringe from the side of the fish toward the lower through the skin then the air bladder under water. You will right away see the air coming out as bubble through the syringe. Then you can massage rest of the air out. Then remove the syringe under water. Then you can pick up the fish, put a drop of superglue on the wound.

Mpimbwe was a different story. Did the operation. Fish was fine. 6 months later, same thing happened after a big water change + gravel vac.. Darken the tank, waited for 2 weeks no feeding, no result. Decided the do the operation again. Fish was fine for another 2 months. Then same thing happen. One more operation, damaged the air bladder. Instead of float, the fish no longer be able to float, it sank all the time. Needless to say, it died within 1 week.

Do at your own risk...


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks for the help guys Im gonna try anything But I have become attached to these Ill pay you charles for your time if in a little while you might be able to look at her for me if she is not better I added some chichlid salt is this ok ? she is too nice to lose and I got them from a good friend so I cant let her die I will never find a nice blue female like this again she is always trying to get to the bottom nose first she doesn't look too bloated and still goes for food but tries to get under stuff to stay down


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

sounds like she is having float problem. Darken the tank completely, stop feeding for 3 days and see if her condition improve. Before that, can you give me your water parameter reading; number reading on ph, kh, anmonia, nitrite, and nitrate?


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Low GH would be my first suspicion here. What are the GH and KH levels?


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

ok my ph 7.8 /nitrate :0 /Nitrite :0 /KH :70 /GH :240


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

anmonia? It is un-common to have 0 reading of nitrate.


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

hrmm Ill check ammonia but both were like 0 Reading


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

Ammonia still tests yellow no ammonia and tried Nitrite again and it says light blue which is 0


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

or ammonia could be .025 looks like in between yellow and just a little off maybe but still on the yellow side


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

skrick said:


> ok my ph 7.8 /nitrate :0 /Nitrite :0 /KH :70 /GH :240


As stated, Nitrate of 0 strange but more importantly is your levels of hardness are very low. Those levels represent the amazon, certainly not where Africans like to be. Tanganyikans in particular prefer a KH in the area of 10 dKH whereas you are around 2.5dKH. GH could stand to be higher as well and if you have already added epsom salts then it would have likely been lower.

I would recommend getting both those levels up as they are both related to bloat etc.


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

what do I add to raise the levels I have tanganyika buffer 9.0-9.4 and cichlid lake salt


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

Ok I add epsom salt 1TBS per 5 gallon for GH and ? baking soda per 10 gal Im just scared screwing with these values I aslo have equilibrium in a jar would this help at all


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Float has been a problem with frontosa keeper. It is likely cause by stress. If it is kh/gh issue, his other fish will get them as well. I seriously doubt it is the case here. Anyhow, it won't do the fish harm trying to raise your gh/kh. Try that and see if it works. It is a much safer way than using syringes... Trust me, I have done a few.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

skrick said:


> Ok I add epsom salt 1TBS per 5 gallon for GH and ? baking soda per 10 gal Im just scared screwing with these values I aslo have equilibrium in a jar would this help at all


Any change would need to be done slowly. We use Alkaline buffer for KH, could not tell you how much baking soda as it is not very water soluble and we don't recommend using it.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

charles said:


> Float has been a problem with frontosa keeper. It is likely cause by stress. If it is kh/gh issue, his other fish will get them as well. I seriously doubt it is the case here. Anyhow, it won't do the fish harm trying to raise your gh/kh. Try that and see if it works. It is a much safer way than using syringes... Trust me, I have done a few.


Interesting.
If a fish is floating then likely either it is a swim bladder issue or built up fluid. Both can be caused by low hardness and poor osmoregulation. Air in the bladder can be caused by poor decompression in a wild caught fish but that does not sound like the case here. A syringe would likely remove fluid, fluid that would likely balance out in the right water parameters. This condition brought on by low hardness would not hit every fish at the same time. That is an odd statement, only one fish has it so it must be "this"? Most problems begin with a few fish and spread from there......


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

Ok ill try but no baking soda I found a nice site with detailed instructions on this whole Gh KH issue so I have some work and reading to do Thanks eveyone for thier input Thats why Im a member here


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

skrick said:


> Ok ill try but no baking soda I found a nice site with detailed instructions on this whole Gh KH issue so I have some work and reading to do Thanks eveyone for thier input Thats why Im a member here


No worries, good luck!


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

UPDATE: Woke up today to my Frontosa female swimming like normal the Float has finally passed and she is looking unbeleivable Thanks to those That have helped me "Charles " Thanks for taking her and helping me! Now I still have My Zaire Forntosa's as full group again. and they are nice and happy.


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## bigfry (Apr 21, 2010)

Good to hear your kits are fine and happy. Any pictures to share?


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

ill take one tonight


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

here is pic of female right now and dominant male 2nd pic


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow!! Charles, I am amazed! From now on, I am going to call you Dr. Charles!



charles said:


> I have done the operation with my wild mpimbwe and wild kitumba.
> 
> Kitumba was fine. One operation by inserting a very fine syringe from the side of the fish toward the lower through the skin then the air bladder under water. You will right away see the air coming out as bubble through the syringe. Then you can massage rest of the air out. Then remove the syringe under water. Then you can pick up the fish, put a drop of superglue on the wound.
> 
> ...


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

Thats too funny LMAO


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## bigfry (Apr 21, 2010)

Nice fish skrick. 

I am probably looking at the parents of my kits.


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## Nanokid (May 18, 2010)

glad to here she is Ok! but PH is a problem for you. for tangs, ph should be over 8. that wood i see there might be lowering it. i would recommend adding some crushed coral into your filter (in a bag) to help raise it.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I am glad she is doing fine.


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