# Annoyed



## wol71

Perhaps i'm gonna get kicked off this forum but i feel that i've been let down. If this Craigslist and anything goes, then so be it. To be honest, i was expecting better from the members here. I'm only a recent addition member BCA and overall I feel there definitely a sense of community. However in the short time i've been here i've been let down by members who were not straight enough to admit that they got a better deal. How is it that with 2 transactions, i've been told that 1) my brother wants it so the deal is off and 2) i'll offer you this in one correspondence and in the second correspondence, sorry i miss led you. I won't publically acknowledge members (but you know who you are) since perhaps this is all on my side, but i feel that i don't think so. Can some confirm that this forum is respectful in the dealings or confirm that is just another craigslist???? On the flip side, i've had some great deals (e.g. battmahn) and an agreement is an agreement but i feel that perhaps it is more craigslist and a real aquarium community. I'm very new to the aquarium scene and I know that all this is buyer beware, but really???


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## Dou

I understand your frustration but... things happen and people change their minds all the time. You should just not expect anything until you actually exchange for it. Also, I would say it's quite easy to weed out the people who are being serious and those who are just lollygagging. Just examine their post - did they type in full sentences? Did they post a photo? Did they make an effort to be easily reached? Do they seem like they care about what they've got or do they just want to sell it and make a quick buck? If the person seems like they don't really care - chances are that they actually don't and consequently whoever hands them cash first will get whatever they've got. Like any community, it can be good and bad. It's really more who you associate yourself with - everyone I've been in regular contact with has been extremely nice and respectful.


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## battmanh

I feel honoured that you mentioned me! Its funny that I was just chatting with some BCAquaria friends recently about people I have had good experiences with and I mentioned that I had a great experience with both you and Droop. Unfortunately we also talked about bad experiences with certain members being jerks or lying about not knowing the price of the moss I was selling to try to get a deal. 

I hope you end up having better experiences in the future. It would be a shame to lose good members on this forum. I also hope that these poor transactions were honest mistakes (I've had a few crappy transactions come from my end as well).

If you ever need anything feel free to text or pm me anytime and I will try my best to help.


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## liquid_krystale

Sometimes things just don't work out, sometimes people change their minds, and sometimes they get a better offer from someone else. Really, it's their perogative to whom and how they choose to sell their items. Nothing we buyers can do but make a mental note and move on. Like any group, there are the bad apples, but as Dou mentioned, with experience you'll learn to identify the time wasters and pass them over.

As a seller, I've dealt with the flakes, the "do you deliver"s, the "can you give this to me half off"s, and other equally exasperating buyers, but these kinds of people exist in all public spheres. Once I've dealt with these types, I remember and avoid them evermore in the future. You'll see that they tend to acquire a reputation here and we have excellent memories. Once you've been on this forum long enough, you will come to know which members are solid, as you've already started to do.

Best of luck!


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## April

Isn't there still a feedback section? 
I get the same thing as a retailer...I do give deals to reasonable people and customers who don't ask but the more they try ask or rather beg...it does t help their case. 


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## Jousters

I have not had any bad experiences on this site and have made many friends.I do look at the buyers profile and am very familiar with our members.I buy from Craigslist as well but feel more comfortable on this site for I do not know who the seller on Craigslist is.Sorry for your bad experience but I can ensure there are more good members here than bad.


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## Reckon

This is a free forum so unfortunately there will be people who join only to take advantage of this community's classifieds. Like April said you can check the feedback section in the buyer/seller profile to see what their sale history looks like. You can also look at the number of posts they've made to see how involved/committed they've been with this community. You may find that dealings with these members may be more smooth. I personally don't see any issue if someone pulls the sale off the table because they tell you a family member wants the item. Give them the benefit of doubt, they may actually be telling you THE TRUTH! I think you would do the same thing for someone you care about. It's disappointing but move on. If you really have an unpleasant transaction, you can leave negative feedback or communicate to a mod. 
Don't be discouraged. In my time here I would say that I've had 90% good experiences with transactions in BCA. 
I encourage you to continue to be involved in BCA, feel free to chime in on other people's posts, answer questions, ask questions etc. I noticed this is the first non FS/LF related thread you've made. It's a good start...


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## wol71

Thanks Reckon, Jousters, April, liquid_krystale, battmahn, and Dou for taking the time to respond to my initial post. Your thoughts are appreciated. It came out as a bit of a rant but the intention was really to try to remind the community (me included) that to make the forum a good place to visit we should be reminded of values such as integrity and "gentleman/gentlewoman" agreements. 

I do want to add that my experiences with the good have by far outweighed the poor ones.


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## April

Great. I always enjoy meeting members. 


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## waterbox

*No Doubt About it -- Classified Ads are a Minefield*

Yes, when you post a classified ad, there are always more than a few Gumbys scattered among the legitimate responders. My favourites are the ones who write back with a few questions, all of which you answer positively:

"Is it the blue one?" 
"Yes," I say.
"Is it in good condition?"
"Excellent condition."
"Are you willing to come down on your price?"
"A little."
"Would you take $35.00. . . ?"
"Okay."

Never hear from them again. I guess they were looking for more of a challenge.

Then there's the guy who comes over, looks at whatever you're selling, then says:

Potential Buyer: "There's another guy selling one of these for half of what you're asking. Just saying."
Me: "And the reason you're not in _his_ living room pawing his stuff like a ********* racoon at this moment is. . . ?"

Of course, the sellers can be equally exasperating. My favourites are the ones selling some oddball collection of items which they refuse to part out. "I'm selling an algae scraper, an Eheim 200 watt heater, half a container of TetraMin fish food and a 1937 International Harvester Model HB-200 Hay Bailer which needs a drive belt. Will only sell as a set."

As if there exists on earth some person who needs this particular exact and weird combination of items.

Another of my favourites:

"Complete 200-Gallon Aquarium Setup With Stand. $1100. Leaving Town. Must Sell By Sunday!"

I guess they were hoping that someone out there browsing Craigslist would see the ad and think, "Gosh, I don't really need an aquarium but. . . Damnit, this poor bastard must sell his aquarium. Better get over there with my wallet as soon as I can. Come to think of it, if I head straight to the airport, maybe I can catch him before his flight takes off!" When the more likely response is something like, "Thanks for letting me know you're desperate. That should help when it comes time to dicker over the price."


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## April

Gumby lol. 
I suppose it's human nature to scrounge and like cheap and free. 


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## The Guy

There's always going to be flakes when it comes to buying or selling on Craigslist or on BCA , they exist "deal with it". Here's a few of my favorites I've heard over the years.
Gee I really want to buy your tank, but you live way out in Langley, "Information flash" we all live way out somewhere . 
Another beauty, Do you ever come to Richmond, Burnaby, West Van or where ever. Of course I go to those places some times, but not just because you need my aquarium item.
And my all time favorite "Will you deliver it" ! 
You will soon figure out who these people are and who the good ones are as well. You can check the sellers I-Trader profile on BCA that will give you a pretty good idea of who your dealing with. My 2 cents .


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## ScottD

I have nothing but great experiences buying off this site. Mainly I have only bought plants but all in all great people


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## ScottD

Langley is pretty out there


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## XXXJAYXXX

The ABSOLUTE WORST.. is when someone sets up a date and time to pick something up (like tomorrow at 2pm for example).. then you get a message later that night saying its been sold... Like people think buying a large fish tank is just an easy whimsical thing to do... not like I need to re-arrange my whole living room and disturb 3 other tanks to make room for it or anything.... which I spent the night before doing... only to be told I did it all for nothing... errrrrg... soooo annoying!


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## engotski

yah i get this with fish time to time...buying fish that is


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## Mick2016

When "shopping" on BCA, the Seller should "answer" the bulk of a Buyer's questions IN THE AD *before* s/he needs to ask:

1. size
2. colour
3. condition - not subjective words like good, excellent, nice . . . but practical information such as: "a 1-inch scratch", "a 1/2-inch dent", a "missing whatever", etc.
4. price/price range - OBO or negotiable or firm
5. photos
6. brand name
7. age
8. used or new
9. quantity
10. good grammar and full sentences give a better first impression. (To me, it shows that the Seller has taken some extra time to care.)

Leave out any personal information like "I need the money", "Broke my hip and can longer carry water buckets", "My grandmother died and she gave me the tank." While these may be relevant circumstances to the Seller, these should be left out of a business transaction and have no bearing on the Buyer's wish to purchase or not. In turn, a Buyer should not use a "sob story" to haggle over the price.

Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but, simply put: Be reasonable, polite, and fair.

If a Seller has taken the time to present a professional-looking ad, then the chances are better that s/he is serious about selling and will less likely play games with the Buyer(s).

Hope this helps a bit.


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## battmanh

The Guy said:


> There's always going to be flakes when it comes to buying or selling on Craigslist or on BCA , they exist "deal with it". Here's a few of my favorites I've heard over the years.
> Gee I really want to buy your tank, but you live way out in Langley, "Information flash" we all live way out somewhere .
> Another beauty, Do you ever come to Richmond, Burnaby, West Van or where ever. Of course I go to those places some times, but not just because you need my aquarium item.
> And my all time favorite "Will you deliver it" !
> You will soon figure out who these people are and who the good ones are as well. You can check the sellers I-Trader profile on BCA that will give you a pretty good idea of who your dealing with. My 2 cents .


Here is how I see things as a seller: If I want to sell something then I will put the effort to sell it. This may include going out of my way to meet with the buyer. I am fortunate enough to have a car and I understand there are others who rely on transit instead. I don't judge people for not wanting to commute far just like I'm not judging you for not wanting to leave Langley but please understand that not everyone has the means or time to be able to travel far. You should also realize that Langley is actually really far for MOST members (made even further by the addition of the toll bridge on Highway 1) so don't be surprised if someone asks if you can deliver or meet up on your way to a city that is more convenient for them. Just kindly deny and move on without getting upset or acting petty about it.


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## mrbob

XXXJAYXXX said:


> The ABSOLUTE WORST.. is when someone sets up a date and time to pick something up (like tomorrow at 2pm for example).. then you get a message later that night saying its been sold... Like people think buying a large fish tank is just an easy whimsical thing to do... not like I need to re-arrange my whole living room and disturb 3 other tanks to make room for it or anything.... which I spent the night before doing... only to be told I did it all for nothing... errrrrg... soooo annoying!


That's the worst happened to me few months ago member here did same to me he agreed to sell me is 210g spent a day moving 2 90g setups and other stuff to make room then he texts me and says sorry I got offered more from another member last night. No names should have left neg feedback so mad now I get tank then do what I have to later. I been buying off members for years on this site and have only had 3 problems most part everyone's awesome I meet! proud to be a member and meet lots of fishy friends.


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## The Guy

battmanh said:


> Here is how I see things as a seller: If I want to sell something then I will put the effort to sell it. This may include going out of my way to meet with the buyer. I am fortunate enough to have a car and I understand there are others who rely on transit instead. I don't judge people for not wanting to commute far just like I'm not judging you for not wanting to leave Langley but please understand that not everyone has the means or time to be able to travel far. You should also realize that Langley is actually really far for MOST members (made even further by the addition of the toll bridge on Highway 1) so don't be surprised if someone asks if you can deliver or meet up on your way to a city that is more convenient for them. Just kindly deny and move on without getting upset or acting petty about it.


Your entitled to your opinion on selling and or buying. Feed back score will usually tell the tale on who you buy from or sell to. Very helpful feature I think, but then that's just my opinion.


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## liquid_krystale

XXXJAYXXX said:


> The ABSOLUTE WORST.. is when someone sets up a date and time to pick something up (like tomorrow at 2pm for example).. then you get a message later that night saying its been sold... Like people think buying a large fish tank is just an easy whimsical thing to do... not like I need to re-arrange my whole living room and disturb 3 other tanks to make room for it or anything.... which I spent the night before doing... only to be told I did it all for nothing... errrrrg... soooo annoying!


Honestly, if it's a "first come first served" (and I always assume this) situation, there's no point in getting pissed over not being fast enough and getting over there to buy it first. Plenty of buyers flake out and you never hear from them again after they set a date to come by and pick up whatever you're selling.

If he told you was holding it for you, that's a different story.


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## battmanh

The Guy said:


> Your entitled to your opinion on selling and or buying. Feed back score will usually tell the tale on who you buy from or sell to. Very helpful feature I think, but then that's just my opinion.


I am well aware that I am allowed to have an opinion and I will use it to defend buyers on this forum. I want them to know that it is okay if they don't have the means to travel far and that they shouldn't have to deal with people getting upset about it. If someone simply asks "Do you deliver?" does that warrant a negative response? In my "opinion", no. I would not be so quick to judge someone based on a simple question that could provide convenience for the inquirer. People shouldn't feel bad about asking either. For people who buy from me in the future, feel free to ask! I do my best to make transactions convenient for the both of us (typically meet on my way to another city or at a LFS I haven't visited in awhile). Worst case scenario is that it isn't convenient for either of us and we won't be able to meet. I won't get mad and neither should you.

I don't see what is so great about feedback score. It is full of generic responses ("Great guy!", "A+", "Good communication", "Easy transaction") that don't really say anything about the person. People don't often post negative feedback either just to avoid conflict. Your 161 (100%) feedback don't reflect on the fact that you get upset with buyers who don't have the means to travel far to Langley. My 42 (100%) feedback don't contain any of the bad transactions I have had in the past. What tells the tale on who you buy from or sell to is the direct interaction between the parties.


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## DevinHebert

I've had nothing but good experiences with members. I live in Chilliwack and am not always able to make it out to Surrey, Richmond and Burnaby, etc... But every time I have had to go out there members have held items for me for up to a week due to the circumstances.


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## cpat83

For the most part its been good. Some people ask for delivery to areas that are just way out of my normal routes... so I decline unless you want to compensate for my time or work it into the deal.

I have said I would hold things but sometimes you don't get a timely response from the prospective buyer (ie/ within 24 hrs) to confirm only to get a message for someone else who is able to come pick it up straight away... I dont think those situations warrant any sort of complaint.


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## XXXJAYXXX

liquid_krystale said:


> Honestly, if it's a "first come first served" (and I always assume this) situation, there's no point in getting pissed over not being fast enough and getting over there to buy it first. Plenty of buyers flake out and you never hear from them again after they set a date to come by and pick up whatever you're selling.
> 
> If he told you was holding it for you, that's a different story.


When Im messaging someone and say.. "Hey, I can come pick this up tomorrow around 2pm.. Does that work for you?" And the person responds "Yes, that would be fine." Followed by their address and phone number... Would you not assume that it is no longer first come first served? And that the item has been placed on hold until at LEAST 2pm the next day? I would get it if they said "Yes if it's still available" Or "Call before you come" then of course.. but when a time is confirmed for pick up and the address and phone number are exchanged... is it not simply good manners to follow through with the expectation as it was set? Maybe I'm the only person on the internet who still believes in living with some integrity... but either way.. pretty sad when people do things like this...


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## liquid_krystale

XXXJAYXXX said:


> When Im messaging someone and say.. "Hey, I can come pick this up tomorrow around 2pm.. Does that work for you?" And the person responds "Yes, that would be fine." Followed by their address and phone number... Would you not assume that it is no longer first come first served? And that the item has been placed on hold until at LEAST 2pm the next day? I would get it if they said "Yes if it's still available" Or "Call before you come" then of course.. but when a time is confirmed for pick up and the address and phone number are exchanged... is it not simply good manners to follow through with the expectation as it was set? Maybe I'm the only person on the internet who still believes in living with some integrity... but either way.. pretty sad when people do things like this...


You wouldn't believe how many potential buyers do exactly that and then don't show. I always let buyers know its FCFS, but not everyone does. Never assume. Always ask "can you hold it?".
Nothing to do with integrity. Everything to do with good communication.


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## mikebike

Thanks to Mick2016
for providing the check list of things to post about items for sale.

My items when offered are pick up in my home/area.

Unless you are some place I plan on traveling to at a time convenience to both of us.

I've only had one problem with a member in my years here.


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## The Guy

battmanh said:


> I am well aware that I am allowed to have an opinion and I will use it to defend buyers on this forum. I want them to know that it is okay if they don't have the means to travel far and that they shouldn't have to deal with people getting upset about it. If someone simply asks "Do you deliver?" does that warrant a negative response? In my "opinion", no. I would not be so quick to judge someone based on a simple question that could provide convenience for the inquirer. People shouldn't feel bad about asking either. For people who buy from me in the future, feel free to ask! I do my best to make transactions convenient for the both of us (typically meet on my way to another city or at a LFS I haven't visited in awhile). Worst case scenario is that it isn't convenient for either of us and we won't be able to meet. I won't get mad and neither should you.
> 
> I don't see what is so great about feedback score. It is full of generic responses ("Great guy!", "A+", "Good communication", "Easy transaction") that don't really say anything about the person. People don't often post negative feedback either just to avoid conflict. Your 161 (100%) feedback don't reflect on the fact that you get upset with buyers who don't have the means to travel far to Langley. My 42 (100%) feedback don't contain any of the bad transactions I have had in the past. What tells the tale on who you buy from or sell to is the direct interaction between the parties.


Ok again it's your opinion, Oh and BTW I do not get upset when people do not want to travel to Langley, as i said it's totally a choice one makes when buying. I have driven all over the lower mainland to pickup and "deliver" stuff, again it's a choice I have a car and am able. I consider them "mini road trips"as well as meeting some nice fellow members in the middle when selling or buying many times over the years.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

battmanh

Not sure why you seem worked up over The Guy's comments. The feedback system is for members to post good & BAD transactions. If you choose NOT to give a negative feedback when you experience a bad transaction, then that is your decision but it also defeats the system's ability to help weed out the good from the bad. And in my many transactions with The Guy, I've driven out to his place, he's driven to mine or we've met at J&L or King Eds. I'm sure he meant nothing personal in his original post on this thread but his words seem to have gotten a more intense reaction from you than is warranted or intended. From talking with literally 100s of BCA members, in general, the vast majority of transactions (say 90 to 95%) go well and both parties are happy. Yes, there are bad apples in any bunch but that's what the negative feedback system is there for, to help others know who to avoid for future transactions. 

Anthony


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## tony1928

The vast majority of BCA'ers I've encountered over the past decade have been some of the nicest folks I've met and I've become good friends with some of them. Everyone has been involved with some bad deals. As a buyer I've had deals already agreed to only on the day of there'd be some excuse for them to back out. As a seller I've had the same, they back out for whatever reason. The reasons really don't matter at the end of the day. That's why the feedback is important. Eventually everyone knows who to trust, who has integrity and who to avoid. It doesn't take long as the community is quite small. 

As many times a seller and sometimes a buyer, my 2 cents would be that there's never a deal until money and merchandise changes hands. I rarely hold stuff for people I don't know. Wasted too much of my time waiting on no shows. First one to my door with cash takes it. Overall this is a great community and I'm glad we have this. 

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## battmanh

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> battmanh
> 
> Not sure why you seem worked up over The Guy's comments. The feedback system is for members to post good & BAD transactions. If you choose NOT to give a negative feedback when you experience a bad transaction, then that is your decision but it also defeats the system's ability to help weed out the good from the bad. And in my many transactions with The Guy, I've driven out to his place, he's driven to mine or we've met at J&L or King Eds. I'm sure he meant nothing personal in his original post on this thread but his words seem to have gotten a more intense reaction from you than is warranted or intended. From talking with literally 100s of BCA members, in general, the vast majority of transactions (say 90 to 95%) go well and both parties are happy. Yes, there are bad apples in any bunch but that's what the negative feedback system is there for, to help others know who to avoid for future transactions.
> 
> Anthony


Hi SeaHorse_Fanatic. My response to The Guy is because of his comments against people asking simple questions as quoted below:



The Guy said:


> There's always going to be flakes when it comes to buying or selling on Craigslist or on BCA , they exist "deal with it". Here's a few of my favorites I've heard over the years.
> Gee I really want to buy your tank, but you live way out in Langley, "Information flash" we all live way out somewhere .
> Another beauty, Do you ever come to Richmond, Burnaby, West Van or where ever. Of course I go to those places some times, but not just because you need my aquarium item.
> And my all time favorite "Will you deliver it" !
> You will soon figure out who these people are and who the good ones are as well. You can check the sellers I-Trader profile on BCA that will give you a pretty good idea of who your dealing with. My 2 cents .


I wanted The Guy to understand that people that don't have the means to travel far may ask these questions but they don't deserve to be judged solely based on these questions. I do not support someone who judges people for asking "Will you deliver it" or "Do you ever come to Richmond, Burnaby, West Van or where ever". I am sharing my "opinion" to get more fair treatment to buyers who are interested in delivery. I am not sure what I have said in my previous posts that has got you worked up.

I agree that the intention of the feedback system to weed out the good from the bad is very valuable, however I also wanted to point out that it is not always reliable because: (1) the responses are typically generic and uninformative and (2) people (including myself) do not submit negative feedback.



The Guy said:


> Ok again it's your opinion, Oh and BTW I do not get upset when people do not want to travel to Langley, as i said it's totally a choice one makes when buying. I have driven all over the lower mainland to pickup and "deliver" stuff, again it's a choice I have a car and am able. I consider them "mini road trips"as well as meeting some nice fellow members in the middle when selling or buying many times over the years.


It seems the point of my post did not reach you so I will state it again clearly.* I am insisting that you do not judge people for asking questions regarding delivery including: "Do you ever come to Richmond, Burnaby, West Van or where ever" and "Will you deliver it".* Yes this is my opinion but I would like for you to share this opinion with me so we can treat buyers with respect and understanding.

Here is an example so you can understand where I am coming from: You are selling a 20 gallon tank but I notice you are in Langley. I am interested in the tank but I won't be out in Langley any time soon so I PM you and say "Hey The Guy, I am interested in your tank but you're way out in Langley! I was wondering if you deliver or if you'd be coming out to South Burnaby or Richmond anytime soon." I have said the three things that apparently irk you (refer to your original post). Do I deserve to be scoffed at and treated with your sarcasm in the original post? I sure hope not. The response I expect is either something similar to "Yes I might be out in South Burnaby next Saturday and I could meet you then" or "No, unfortunately I cannot deliver. Please let me know if you would still be interested", all without any sarcasm.

I am not trying to pick a fight for fun here. I have seen multiple comments from you in different threads ragging on people who want delivery so I finally spoke up about it. I genuinely want a friendly environment on the forum where I can freely ask a seller if they are willing to deliver or if they could meet on one of their mini road trips. If you disagree and still believe that people who ask for delivery deserve the sarcasm from your original post (and other posts scattered throughout the forum) then we do not need to continue this.


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## DBam

Lol, we have a real SJW for the aquarist that can't travel or doesn't want to. Most of my (few) issues with transactions stem from agreeing to deliver. Until you live east of the Port Mann and get asked to deliver every time you sell or give away for free, I wouldn't judge people for being wary and having a tiresome attitude towards it.


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## MDT

DBam said:


> Lol, we have a real SJW for the aquarist that can't travel or doesn't want to. Most of my (few) issues with transactions stem from agreeing to deliver. Until you live east of the Port Mann and get asked to deliver every time you sell or give away for free, I wouldn't judge people for being wary and having a tiresome attitude towards it.


Oh, but it's okay to judge people who are unable to drive then, right?

When did it become acceptable to marginalize and brand people who can't drive? I'm not able to drive for many reasons so I guess I should just be avoided because I am automatically going to grief the seller/buyer, is that what you're saying? Just because I can not drive does not mean I am a bad, lazy or rotten person, nor does it warrant that disrespectful attitude. Yet somehow there is an atmosphere of prejudice here. You might as well ban me for not being able to own a vehicle or a license because the sheer arrogance and ignorance displayed by some users on here is revolting to the degree that I no longer feel safe to post advertisements out of fear of being judged for simply asking whether a person is able to meet me closer to my place.

It's disgusting when I am treated like less because of transportation. Seems like people forget that driving is not a right, it's a privilege, and one that not everyone has equal opportunity to.


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## liquid_krystale

Getting pretty hot in here.

I gotta say that I for one am not adverse to travelling for trade/sales/etc, despite what my previous comment might have implied. Many of you in this forum who have dealt with me can attest to this. Yes, definitely some people will not have the means to travel, and there is no harm in asking. I say, don't be afraid to ask, and don't give a sh*t if someone says no or gives you attitude for it. 

Sometimes I bus myself to where I need to go. I might not have a car available, but I do my best, and I appreciate those who are willing to meet me half way. These awesome individuals are putting out their own time, gas money, etc to make your life a bit easier. Respect it. Acknowledge it. And for f*cks sake, uphold your end of the bargain and be on time.

But dude, if I'm giving away something for free, and my ad says "pickup only", well...


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## Mick2016

Good point, mikebike. Added #11 to the Seller's TO DO LIST . . .

1. size
2. colour
3. condition - not subjective words like good, excellent, nice . . . but practical information such as: "a 1-inch scratch", "a 1/2-inch dent", a "missing whatever", etc.
4. price/price range - OBO or negotiable or firm
5. photos
6. brand name
7. age
8. used or new
9. quantity
10. good grammar and full sentences give a better first impression. (To me, it shows that the Seller has taken some extra time to care.)

*11. Indicate if pick up only or delivery options. If delivery, state the distance within which the Seller is prepared to travel (i.e. a 24-km radius, for example).

*

* Be fastidious about communication . . . lessens the chances of misunderstanding and grief for either party.


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## Rjjm

There is nothing wrong with asking if the seller is driving close to me. Definitely I appreciate it and I let the seller know that when they do that. But judging people is uncalled for just because they ask. I for sure will not drive all the way to Langley just for a $10 item. I would look somewhere close or ask if the seller is driving somewhere close by then I would meet them from there. Of course guaranteeing that I will buy the product. Just my two cents


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

Based on the judgemental over-reactions found in some of these postings, I think a lot more members will remember to post "Pick Up ONLY" or "willing to deliver" in their ads in the future. 

Personally, I've literally driven 1000s of kms over the years picking up fish stuff (including a road trip to Calgary with my buddy Chin for a 4' cube tank). At the same time, I live very centrally in Burnaby so most deals are within reasonable driving distance. I've picked up dozens of aquariums over the years and I can't imagine being in this hobby and not having a vehicle (even if its one of those drive-sharing ones) just because I like big tanks and I'm NOT taking a 6' aquarium on public transit or on my mountain bike. I've picked up, I've delivered and I've had 100s of buyers come by. Whatever works. 

I also understand how someone living in the valley will get tired of being asked in dozens of pms over the years if they'll drive over the Port Mann and deliver some small item, which unless its a big ticket item, will probably mean losing money after gas and toll fees are factored in. Always being asked to deliver something can get old real fast in such cases. Most of the time, that item that's being asked to be delivered is under $20 and, for me, I'd rather wait a bit and sell to someone else who will come by rather than do a 30-50 km round trip to drop it off. I'll do it for a friend, but not for some random stranger. Just not worth my time and gas unless I'm heading in that area anyways. 

Each of us make choices in our lives. To drive or not to drive is one of them. To be in this hobby or in a different hobby is another. All my addictions require the picking up of very bulky, very heavy items on a regular basis so to NOT drive is NOT an option for me. (My other addiction is urban farming).

Potential buyers are welcome to ask if someone is willing to deliver or to meet halfway. I know I've done so in the past and will probably do so in the future. Just don't feel discriminated against if the seller decides to sell their item or give away their freebies to someone else who will come to them and pick it up, instead of expecting the item(s) delivered. 

For those of you who are somehow upset over this topic of discussion, consider this scenario:

You have posted a $5-10 item (or even free) for sale and several members contact you to purchase (or get the free) item and all are strangers from the forum. Two members are asking if you'll drive 25 km each way, pay the toll on the Port Mann, and drop it off at their home. One member says they'll come over the next day and pay and pick up the item from your home. 

So, who gets the item from you???


----------



## cpat83

I think if you are going to deliver, you have to charge for your time / fuel / tolls. If I cross a bridge, I'm expecting $15-20 on top of the agreed price of the item. Simple as that, if we can't agree on it then its cheaper for me to keep it on my shelf or junk it. My time and fuel is most certainly NOT FREE!!! Just my .02cents...


----------



## Reckon

battmanh said:


> It seems the point of my post did not reach you so I will state it again clearly.* I am insisting that you do not judge people for asking questions regarding delivery including: "Do you ever come to Richmond, Burnaby, West Van or where ever" and "Will you deliver it".* Yes this is my opinion but I would like for you to share this opinion with me so we can treat buyers with respect and understanding.
> 
> Here is an example so you can understand where I am coming from: You are selling a 20 gallon tank but I notice you are in Langley. I am interested in the tank but I won't be out in Langley any time soon so I PM you and say "Hey The Guy, I am interested in your tank but you're way out in Langley! I was wondering if you deliver or if you'd be coming out to South Burnaby or Richmond anytime soon." I have said the three things that apparently irk you (refer to your original post). Do I deserve to be scoffed at and treated with your sarcasm in the original post? I sure hope not. The response I expect is either something similar to "Yes I might be out in South Burnaby next Saturday and I could meet you then" or "No, unfortunately I cannot deliver. Please let me know if you would still be interested", all without any sarcasm.
> 
> I am not trying to pick a fight for fun here. I have seen multiple comments from you in different threads ragging on people who want delivery so I finally spoke up about it. I genuinely want a friendly environment on the forum where I can freely ask a seller if they are willing to deliver or if they could meet on one of their mini road trips. If you disagree and still believe that people who ask for delivery deserve the sarcasm from your original post (and other posts scattered throughout the forum) then we do not need to continue this.


Well, this has certainly turned out to be a lively conversation! 

I don't think any reasonable person would have an issue if the potential buyer asks whether the seller would be in their area anytime soon. I also don't mind when the buyer asks if we can meet part way between their location and mine.

What irks me about requests for deliveries is when that buyer first asks for a drop on the price - and then when I agree to it, ALSO asks for a delivery to their location. As mentioned in another post, delivering costs the seller time, gas, tolls, etc. Especially, in the case of when I'm just selling $15 in plants. To me getting this request is the equivalent of a LOW BALL offer. It's pointless unless the seller intends to take advantage of my potential naivete that I just won't make any return, and if that's the assumption then its just disrespectful. Unfortunately, this scenario isn't uncommon and inevitably leads to cynicism. Hence, it deserves a mention on the "Annoyed" thread.

What I hope for BCA is a culture where all members strive for decency and win/win transactions.


----------



## wslam

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Based on the judgemental over-reactions found in some of these postings, I think a lot more members will remember to post "Pick Up ONLY" or "willing to deliver" in their ads in the future.
> 
> Personally, I've literally driven 1000s of kms over the years picking up fish stuff (including a road trip to Calgary with my buddy Chin for a 4' cube tank). At the same time, I live very centrally in Burnaby so most deals are within reasonable driving distance. I've picked up dozens of aquariums over the years and I can't imagine being in this hobby and not having a vehicle (even if its one of those drive-sharing ones) just because I like big tanks and I'm NOT taking a 6' aquarium on public transit or on my mountain bike. I've picked up, I've delivered and I've had 100s of buyers come by. Whatever works.
> 
> I also understand how someone living in the valley will get tired of being asked in dozens of pms over the years if they'll drive over the Port Mann and deliver some small item, which unless its a big ticket item, will probably mean losing money after gas and toll fees are factored in. Always being asked to deliver something can get old real fast in such cases. Most of the time, that item that's being asked to be delivered is under $20 and, for me, I'd rather wait a bit and sell to someone else who will come by rather than do a 30-50 km round trip to drop it off. I'll do it for a friend, but not for some random stranger. Just not worth my time and gas unless I'm heading in that area anyways.
> 
> Each of us make choices in our lives. To drive or not to drive is one of them. To be in this hobby or in a different hobby is another. All my addictions require the picking up of very bulky, very heavy items on a regular basis so to NOT drive is NOT an option for me. (My other addiction is urban farming).
> 
> Potential buyers are welcome to ask if someone is willing to deliver or to meet halfway. I know I've done so in the past and will probably do so in the future. Just don't feel discriminated against if the seller decides to sell their item or give away their freebies to someone else who will come to them and pick it up, instead of expecting the item(s) delivered.
> 
> For those of you who are somehow upset over this topic of discussion, consider this scenario:
> 
> You have posted a $5-10 item (or even free) for sale and several members contact you to purchase (or get the free) item and all are strangers from the forum. Two members are asking if you'll drive 25 km each way, pay the toll on the Port Mann, and drop it off at their home. One member says they'll come over the next day and pay and pick up the item from your home.
> 
> So, who gets the item from you???


Not sure if you understand the point that the other side is trying to make. I don't believe anyone involved in this thread feels discriminated as a buyer. Your scenario is pretty obvious, no one in the right mind would deliver, me included. The issue seems to be several members making sarcastic or unnecessary comments about free delivery and making fun of people asking about delivery. I've noticed it too. It's uncalled for, especially if you are not the seller, and you don't know the story behind the buyer asking for delivery. I mean if that's the culture here at bcaquaria, then ok. I haven't been here long so maybe this is what it's like, but most people I've been in contact with or met have been really nice.

As a seller, if the transaction doesn't work for me, I would just politely decline or even ignore the requests. However, sometimes I would deliver or meet somewhere out of my way because I rather help another member out with his/her tank then to throw away my plants or let equipment sit around. I'm sure many of you do the same.


----------



## SeaHorse_Fanatic

wslam said:


> Not sure if you understand the point that the other side is trying to make. I don't believe anyone involved in this thread feels discriminated as a buyer.


This posting quoted below seems to state exactly this.



MDT said:


> Oh, but it's okay to judge people who are unable to drive then, right?
> 
> When did it become acceptable to marginalize and brand people who can't drive? I'm not able to drive for many reasons so I guess I should just be avoided because I am automatically going to grief the seller/buyer, is that what you're saying? Just because I can not drive does not mean I am a bad, lazy or rotten person, nor does it warrant that disrespectful attitude. Yet somehow there is an atmosphere of prejudice here. You might as well ban me for not being able to own a vehicle or a license because the sheer arrogance and ignorance displayed by some users on here is revolting to the degree that I no longer feel safe to post advertisements out of fear of being judged for simply asking whether a person is able to meet me closer to my place.
> 
> It's disgusting when I am treated like less because of transportation. Seems like people forget that driving is not a right, it's a privilege, and one that not everyone has equal opportunity to.


However, Reckon's scenario is exactly the one that irks many members who are first lowballed and then asked to deliver, especially when the seller knows the buyer has a vehicle, can drive out but would rather have the seller spend his/her time, gas & toll fee to deliver the item.



Reckon said:


> I don't think any reasonable person would have an issue if the potential buyer asks whether the seller would be in their area anytime soon. I also don't mind when the buyer asks if we can meet part way between their location and mine.
> 
> What irks me about requests for deliveries is when that buyer first asks for a drop on the price - and then when I agree to it, ALSO asks for a delivery to their location. As mentioned in another post, delivering costs the seller time, gas, tolls, etc. Especially, in the case of when I'm just selling $15 in plants. To me getting this request is the equivalent of a LOW BALL offer. It's pointless unless the seller intends to take advantage of my potential naivete that I just won't make any return, and if that's the assumption then its just disrespectful. Unfortunately, this scenario isn't uncommon and inevitably leads to cynicism. Hence, it deserves a mention on the "Annoyed" thread.
> 
> What I hope for BCA is a culture where all members strive for decency and win/win transactions.


In fact, this happened multiple times to one member which is why he posted his original comment about members asking for free delivery from Langley. None of us have any problem with non-driving members but when the same member (who has a car) constantly keeps asking for free delivery, without any compensation, that tends to irk even good-hearted individuals. He tends to now ignore that member but it is still annoying.

Personally, if someone is doing me a favour by delivering something, I try to make it worth their time and effort by offering to cook them lunch or give them some extra plants, etc. so nobody feels taken advantage of. I also try to return the favour in the future.

For those who don't drive but are willing to take transit to come over, I've picked dozens of members up and dropped them off at the local Skytrain station. I've also delivered and met buyers at King Eds or J&L Aquatics when necessary. But again, I live West of the Port Mann and so I don't have to pay a toll both ways, which is something sellers in the Valley must always take into account when potential buyers ask for free delivery in the city.

For the record, I have had great transactions with at least 95% of the members here and on Canreef.

As stated above, I think the comments and hard feelings evident in some of the postings on this thread is most likely going to cause a lot of members to add "NO Delivery" or "Pick Up Only" or "Willing to deliver/meet" in their ads just to avoid ruffling any feathers (or fins) over this issue. And considering the very polarizing responses in this thread, YES the "free delivery" issue is "Annoying" to a number of members on both sides of the issue and so it does belong in a thread titled "Annoyed".

Just my $.02.

Anthony


----------



## battmanh

Cool story SeaHorse_Fanatic but your responses have had nothing to do with my posting in response to The Guy. I understand that people have their issues with delivery and it is fair to be wary of people asking for delivery. I have also had issues with delivery but again this has absolutely nothing to do with my point to The Guy.

Let me paste this one more time to convince you of why I bothered posting here:



The Guy said:


> There's always going to be flakes when it comes to buying or selling on Craigslist or on BCA , they exist "deal with it". Here's a few of my favorites I've heard over the years.
> Gee I really want to buy your tank, but you live way out in Langley, "Information flash" we all live way out somewhere .
> Another beauty, Do you ever come to Richmond, Burnaby, West Van or where ever. Of course I go to those places some times, but not just because you need my aquarium item.
> And my all time favorite "Will you deliver it" !
> You will soon figure out who these people are and who the good ones are as well. You can check the sellers I-Trader profile on BCA that will give you a pretty good idea of who your dealing with. My 2 cents .


In this posting The Guy says nothing about Lawson's scenario. He is irked by simple questions such as "Will you deliver it". I am saying that *simply asking that question does not warrant the negative attitude or sarcasm. *I don't understand why you insisted on belittling me by suggesting I am "reacting intensely" in your first response to me. In the second response, I am not sure who you are saying is having "judgemental over-reactions" but again you are belittling members and their opinions. Let people have open discussion on the forum because that is exactly what a forum is for.

If The Guy disagrees with my opinion that asking simple questions such as "Will you deliver it" does not warrant a negative reaction then let him say it and end it there. I don't need other people jumping in to attack me or defend me. It was a really simple point that only needs a simple response. I respect The Guy's decision to bow out of the conversation after I left everything out on the table. If you and DBam want to continue the discussion with me regarding my point (in bold above), feel free to do so but leave the belittling and labeling/name-calling out of it.

PS. DBam, I hope you don't mind that I took your quote and put it in my signature. I thought it was pretty funny 

PSS. Also if this discussion does lead to people adding "NO Delivery" or "Pick Up Only" or "Willing to deliver/meet" then that's great! Hopefully everyone can be understanding of everyone else's circumstances. I now know that people east of the Port Mann are often asked for delivery.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

YOU are missing the point. The "Will you deliver it" comment was in reference to the scenario I discussed above. You are willing and eager to assume the worst in what The Guy states, yet ignore the "backstory" behind his comment. He has delivered items to me in Burnaby when he's in coming into town. He is irked (and who wouldn't be) by the member who keeps asking him to deliver even though he can (but won't ) pick it up himself. We have in fact discussed this situation on a couple of occasions prior to this thread being started and I can see his point. His comment was not a blanket indictment of all those who ask "will you deliver" but was in reference to the member who he now ignores due to his past experiences with him.


----------



## wslam

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> This posting quoted below seems to state exactly this.
> 
> 
> 
> MDT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, but it's okay to judge people who are unable to drive then, right?
> 
> When did it become acceptable to marginalize and brand people who can't drive? I'm not able to drive for many reasons so I guess I should just be avoided because I am automatically going to grief the seller/buyer, is that what you're saying? Just because I can not drive does not mean I am a bad, lazy or rotten person, nor does it warrant that disrespectful attitude. Yet somehow there is an atmosphere of prejudice here. You might as well ban me for not being able to own a vehicle or a license because the sheer arrogance and ignorance displayed by some users on here is revolting to the degree that I no longer feel safe to post advertisements out of fear of being judged for simply asking whether a person is able to meet me closer to my place.
> 
> It's disgusting when I am treated like less because of transportation. Seems like people forget that driving is not a right, it's a privilege, and one that not everyone has equal opportunity to.
Click to expand...

He seems to be saying that there is an attitude problem or 'atmopshere of prejudice' here on bcaquaria. The exact issue I mentioned, and one that you still haven't touched on. He does not mention he feels discriminated or that it's unfair a seller decides to sell it to someone closer. He no longer feels safe to post out of fear of being judge for asking about delivery or meeting closer. Again, an attitude issue with some members.



SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> In fact, this happened multiple times to one member which is why he posted his original comment about members asking for free delivery from Langley. None of us have any problem with non-driving members but when the same member (who has a car) constantly keeps asking for free delivery, without any compensation, that tends to irk even good-hearted individuals. He tends to now ignore that member but it is still annoying.
> 
> Personally, if someone is doing me a favour by delivering something, I try to make it worth their time and effort by offering to cook them lunch or give them some extra plants, etc. so nobody feels taken advantage of. I also try to return the favour in the future.
> 
> For those who don't drive but are willing to take transit to come over, I've picked dozens of members up and dropped them off at the local Skytrain station. I've also delivered and met buyers at King Eds or J&L Aquatics when necessary. But again, I live West of the Port Mann and so I don't have to pay a toll both ways, which is something sellers in the Valley must always take into account when potential buyers ask for free delivery in the city.
> 
> For the record, I have had great transactions with at least 95% of the members here and on Canreef.
> 
> As stated above, I think the comments and hard feelings evident in some of the postings on this thread is most likely going to cause a lot of members to add "NO Delivery" or "Pick Up Only" or "Willing to deliver/meet" in their ads just to avoid ruffling any feathers (or fins) over this issue. And considering the very polarizing responses in this thread, YES the "free delivery" issue is "Annoying" to a number of members on both sides of the issue and so it does belong in a thread titled "Annoyed".
> 
> Just my $.02.
> 
> Anthony


So what you are saying then, as a mod, that it is ok for members to ridicule and make fun of that one buyer who constantly asks for free delivery? Plus extending the attitude towards other members who might be interested in asking for deliver or meeting somewhere convenient? Because it seems like you are trying to defend the member by explaining the situation. Now, I'm not saying that the buyer asking for delivery is right (it's not fair for sure), but why are you involved in their personal issue? Personal problems should be dealt with privately, and not passive aggressively all over the forums. It creates a negative and hostile environment.

So to summarize, I'm not saying it is ok for buyers to lowball and ask for free delivery. I'm questioning why it seems to be fair game to make unnecessary or sarcastic remarks on classified postings when someone mentions it's not a convenient location or asks for delivery.


----------



## battmanh

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> YOU are missing the point. The "Will you deliver it" comment was in reference to the scenario I discussed above. You are willing and eager to assume the worst in what The Guy states, yet ignore the "backstory" behind his comment. He has delivered items to me in Burnaby when he's in coming into town. He is irked (and who wouldn't be) by the member who keeps asking him to deliver even though he can (but won't ) pick it up himself. We have in fact discussed this situation on a couple of occasions prior to this thread being started and I can see his point. His comment was not a blanket indictment of all those who ask "will you deliver" but was in reference to the member who he now ignores due to his past experiences with him.


There is no point shared with me by The Guy or you to be missed. I am not assuming anything - everything I have said has been in reference to his post and several posts throughout the forum where he rags about delivery. Where in his post does he mention this ONE member? He posts three examples of things that irk him - are these all in reference to this ONE member? You may see his point but not once has he defended himself against my opinion that *simply asking "Will you deliver it" does not warrant a negative response. *Can my point not just be responded to by saying "I don't mean everyone who asks for delivery but there is one member who has irked me"? Instead I am notified that I am entitled to my own opinion and have you jump in with condescending attitude just because I am out of the loop of your prior conversations. If I see someone being unreasonably sarcastic and having a bad attitude then I will call them out. We don't need bullying on the forum, we are all adults here. If The Guy insists that his comments are not a blanket statement then he can defend himself and share his story with me and we can discuss further.

There are obvious circle-jerks by different groups on this forum and if we could just communicate properly then things could be cleared up much easier instead of having an argument between groups. I understand that if your old pal is getting called out that you will come to defend him but as a moderator I would expect a better response than belittling and adding fuel to the fire. I am trying to encourage a friendlier environment and open discussion on the forum. I hope you will strive for the same.

On a side note, since you've shared some stories about past transactions, let me share one with you. I have actually met you in the past at J&L Aquatics to give you free ADA Amazonia aquasoil and it was a pleasant transaction. Let us all continue to have future transactions without any issues. I am willing to deliver!


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## The Guy

The Guy said:


> Ok again it's your opinion, Oh and BTW I do not get upset when people do not want to travel to Langley, as i said it's totally a choice one makes when buying. I have driven all over the lower mainland to pickup and "deliver" stuff, again it's a choice I have a car and am able. I consider them "mini road trips"as well as meeting some nice fellow members in the middle when selling or buying many times over the years.


OK ONE LAST TIME!  , READ THIS" pasted response statement from a few days back, My original post was not meant to slight anybody or to be disrespectful to BCA Buyers or Sellers. Sadly some members have chosen to twist my statements to start a huge Pi**ing match on the forum and I'm not going to be part of it.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

Enjoyed the debate/discussion, but beating this dead horse some more will not change anyone's mind so I'm going to do something more productive, ie. have dinner with my family. Have fun you guys. Feel free to discuss back and forth amongst yourself but this thread is completely off topic from what the OP (original poster) was writing about. Too-da-loo.


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## The Guy

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Enjoyed the debate/discussion, but beating this dead horse some more will not change anyone's mind so I'm going to do something more productive, ie. have dinner with my family. Have fun you guys. Feel free to discuss back and forth amongst yourself but this thread is completely off topic from what the OP (original poster) was writing about. Too-da-loo.


 I agree . I'm done and going to enjoy the holiday weekend with my family.


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## Jousters

I have met a member at Skytrain and gave away a free tank and some supplies.It was difficult to carry back on the train.I gave the member a ride home from Burnaby to Coquitlam.I am sure there are other members that would do the same.So there is no harm in asking.However I do not think The Guy meant what he stated for I have met him once and he is a very nice person.I feel we should not judge people for what is stated on the Internet.We all make mistakes.We really can't judge a book by its cover.Just saying


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## XXXJAYXXX

Actually.. it has EVERYTHING to do with integrity... Integrity on both the part of the buyer who has made a commitment to come and pick the item up at a specified time.. and integrity on the part of the seller who has given their commitment to a pick up time. The potential buyers that don't show up lack integrity in the same way that sellers who make commitments and don't keep them... maybe the fact that no one seems to know what integrity actually is.. is the reason no one seems to have it anymore... lol


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## waterbox

"Leave out any personal information like "I need the money", "Broke my hip and can longer carry water buckets", "My grandmother died and she gave me the tank." While these may be relevant circumstances to the Seller, these should be left out of a business transaction and have no bearing on the Buyer's wish to purchase or not. In turn, a Buyer should not use a "sob story" to haggle over the price."

Mick, in general I agree with your excellent advice. However, there are occasions when a little bit of personal info ("My Grandmother died and gave me the tank") might legitimately be included as an explanation to allay a buyer's suspicions over a too-good-to-be-true price, for example.


----------



## DBam

Battmanh and others, I'm not too sure where you got the impression that I live to marginalise those who are in circumstances that don't allow them to drive. I was honestly surprised by the speed with which some of you reached that conclusion. Since you weren't aware of the regularity with which some of us are asked to deliver I'll elaborate. Delivery means time, gas, and now often a bridge toll. I usually get asked to drop my price off whatever I'm selling by the prospective buyer. I'm almost never offered extra for delivery unless I ask. I've never made a stink about it, but I usually see a car in the driveway when I get there. There have been times when its a kid that's buying, and they're not getting anywhere alone. I understand and am happy to make the hobby accessible in cases like this. There are members here who are not able to drive and I've taken note of them over the years and in my experience they generally don't advertise their circumstances. It's the buyers that could but rather wouldn't, and want the convenience of delivery and a deal on the price. Take a couple of situations I've been in:

Post something FF and am asked to deliver to Surrey. I do (actually my wife does because she had some spare time) but they cancel via text 30 mins after she leaves the house, like 5 or 10 mins before meetup. I learn what happened well after the fact and choose to leave it alone instead of make a big deal.

I sell an expensive fish and am asked to deliver. The fish dies the next day. I saw them take the fish and dump it in their tank without acclimatizing after an hour plus drive. They message me upset the next day. 

Delivery can be smooth or it can be a minefield despite my best efforts to make things efficient and straightforward. You can make this about me being a jerk (apparently a bunch of us in circles being jerks,) but its really about getting lowballed, some people being less than decent, and doing deals where the buyer is buying something they're not checking out beforehand. It can be tough to sell here without being willing to deliver, but I'm usually happy to help another hobbyist out. Anyways, you can keep your signature, I guess it can be your own special medal for making this thread about your agenda of defending people that weren't being targeted instead of listening to the issue we were trying to present.


----------



## battmanh

DBam said:


> Battmanh and others, I'm not too sure where you got the impression that I live to marginalise those who are in circumstances that don't allow them to drive. I was honestly surprised by the speed with which some of you reached that conclusion. Since you weren't aware of the regularity with which some of us are asked to deliver I'll elaborate. Delivery means time, gas, and now often a bridge toll. I usually get asked to drop my price off whatever I'm selling by the prospective buyer. I'm almost never offered extra for delivery unless I ask. I've never made a stink about it, but I usually see a car in the driveway when I get there. There have been times when its a kid that's buying, and they're not getting anywhere alone. I understand and am happy to make the hobby accessible in cases like this. There are members here who are not able to drive and I've taken note of them over the years and in my experience they generally don't advertise their circumstances. It's the buyers that could but rather wouldn't, and want the convenience of delivery and a deal on the price. Take a couple of situations I've been in:
> 
> Post something FF and am asked to deliver to Surrey. I do (actually my wife does because she had some spare time) but they cancel via text 30 mins after she leaves the house, like 5 or 10 mins before meetup. I learn what happened well after the fact and choose to leave it alone instead of make a big deal.
> 
> I sell an expensive fish and am asked to deliver. The fish dies the next day. I saw them take the fish and dump it in their tank without acclimatizing after an hour plus drive. They message me upset the next day.
> 
> Delivery can be smooth or it can be a minefield despite my best efforts to make things efficient and straightforward. You can make this about me being a jerk (apparently a bunch of us in circles being jerks,) but its really about getting lowballed, some people being less than decent, and doing deals where the buyer is buying something they're not checking out beforehand. It can be tough to sell here without being willing to deliver, but I'm usually happy to help another hobbyist out. Anyways, you can keep your signature, I guess it can be your own special medal for making this thread about your agenda of defending people that weren't being targeted instead of listening to the issue we were trying to present.


Oh guess the dead horse hasn't been beaten enough.


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## DBam

Sounds like it's suddenly a dead horse to you when it becomes clear that you've made a fool of yourself. Just admit you had no idea what was being discussed until now and move on. No hard feelings, hey I've been around here long enough to take the good with the bad and I've been around a lot longer than you. And if you care so much about having all your stuff delivered why not fight to make sure that it's a system that works to benefit and doesn't marginalise the mobile party instead of only fighting to ensure that you are entitled to that level of service? Kind of sounds like you backed the wrong team with your SJW superpowers. I hope in the future to do a transaction with you, battmanh, where you want delivery. I want to see if you treat the BCA members you deal with like second-rate pizza delivery drivers or if you're decent to them. 

In staying on topic I've had PMs from people who have shared experiences like mine with delivery. Mods and others who have a horse in this race, would it be a worthwhile topic to discuss in a separate thread, maybe work out a sticky or something that could go up in the classified subforums? Something like a "Guide to smoother delivery transactions"?


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## mikebike

I think we would all like to get things without a lot of effort.

I'm one of those kind of out of the way living in S Surrey near White Rock.

A lot of people don't want to travel that far.

I seldom go into the City/Vancouver/Richmond/NW/Colquitlam/MR etc.

Due to the cost of fuel and bridge tolls.

If I'm going someplace which takes me near you I can try to arrange delivery/at My convenience.

I like to think we are part of a community which is in place to help each other.

Let's help each other and keep the forum/community going in a constructive manner.

Cheers


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## Dou

Sorry but it looks like you are the one who has no idea what is being discussed because Battmanh is the person doing the delivering (and happy to do it when relevant). When you say no hard feelings after having called someone a fool - you're just looking for a fight. Having experience and being around is good - but it doesn't mean that you are suddenly better than everyone else and your opinion is more valid than another's. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a car and thus be mobile - and shaming others for this is not nice. This is the point that is being contested - not whether someone is right or wrong, a fool or not, a SJW, a long-time veteran, etc. I had to backtrack and read everything, but the first thing that came out of your fingers was something intended to hurt someone else and that's what you continue to do as well. There's nothing wrong with being a social justice warrior but you make it seem like its a horrible thing, change happens over time - and usually for the better.



DBam said:


> Sounds like it's suddenly a dead horse to you when it becomes clear that you've made a fool of yourself. Just admit you had no idea what was being discussed until now and move on. No hard feelings, hey I've been around here long enough to take the good with the bad and I've been around a lot longer than you. And if you care so much about having all your stuff delivered why not fight to make sure that it's a system that works to benefit and doesn't marginalise the mobile party instead of only fighting to ensure that you are entitled to that level of service? Kind of sounds like you backed the wrong team with your SJW superpowers. I hope in the future to do a transaction with you, battmanh, where you want delivery. I want to see if you treat the BCA members you deal with like second-rate pizza delivery drivers or if you're decent to them.
> 
> In staying on topic I've had PMs from people who have shared experiences like mine with delivery. Mods and others who have a horse in this race, would it be a worthwhile topic to discuss in a separate thread, maybe work out a sticky or something that could go up in the classified subforums? Something like a "Guide to smoother delivery transactions"?


Edit// And yes, we should try to strive towards a community that's willing to help one another. I also think that we should just try to be more honest in general. If someone offends you by asking for a certain price and adds salt to the wound by asking for delivery - you need to tell them that they are being rude and disrespectful. Vice versa, if someone is asking you politely but you can't/won't deliver, simply say sorry and move on.


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## DunderBear

This thread went from being a PSA type discussion to a low key calling out people type thing. My opinion on the matter relevant or not is that this thread should be closed for discussion and all matters between people should be dealt with privately. This is a forum meant to help each other but right now this thread is doing quite the opposite. 

Now here's my 0.02$: So far I have made quite a few purchases/sales since I joined this forum in September. All of these transactions have went great and smoothly in my opinion. As a student in high school who still can't drive I was very pleased to find out that people were willing to deliver for free even if it was for a small sale or even freebies. I apologize if I have offended you by messaging to deliver items for free, I don't mean drive all the way out to Richmond to drop off a plant or something for 5$. I'm trying to say if you are coming out this way anytime soon it would be nice if you had extra time to drop it off since I can't drive yet. Anyway I don't mind paying for delivery if your coming out here say Coquitlam/Burnaby etc just say it and if you can't deliver I do try to get a ride to pick it up if possible. Once I can drive I do intend to give back to the forums by doing what others have done for me. Thanks to everyone who understood and sorry if I offended anyone.


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## Luke78

Apparent "SJW for the aquarist that can't travel or doesn't want to." Fighting for your right to ask for delivery since 2016!

What are you trying to accomplish with a statement like this one? It seems to me after reading all these posts, you don't wanna reason with anyone and just wanna be heard.A screaming child looking for attention.Give it a rest please!


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## battmanh

I don't see why you people feel the need to attack me. I will let you read through my posts to decide whether I have been reasonable or not. I put some text in bold to get my point across. If you disagree with it then that's fine, I'm not going to pursue it further. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## rah_rabbitry

"I'm selling an algae scraper, an Eheim 200 watt heater, half a container of TetraMin fish food and a 1937 International Harvester Model HB-200 Hay Bailer which needs a drive belt. Will only sell as a set.""

HAHAHAHHAHAHAAH yeeees


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## Fishman21

No matter how exhaustive the checklist you set up, you have to expect the odd hiccup - it's inevitable we've all had them, but live for the good experiences - those are the ones that will happen most of the time: You will meet nice people, you will have an opportunity to chat about a common interest and in the end - make a good trade.

Genuine traders usually communicate well because they have a keen interest. Focus on that as a guideline line when you are buying or selling - it usually gives a good sense of the ultimate outcome (And remember to give back the same level of communication to balance the equation and offer them the same level of assurance).

Put bad events down to experience and keep good event as memories.

This is a good forum - lets be constructive


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

This last post sums up the situation well. This discussion topic has run its course and rather than have it go off topic and create ill-feelings amongst members, we'll be closing this thread. Thanks for participating.


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