# Discus going crazy?



## Steve

So yesterday I noticed one of my blue diamonds swim like crazy and bump into glass and scrape himself on the gravel and everything and then today 4 other of my discus did the exact same thing and now basically all have scrapes on their sides from the gravel. Anyone know why they're doing this? Water parameters are normal and temp is at 86.


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## jobber

Check your pH for fluctuations, stray voltage. I've had that happen a few times but has gone away recently. I'm going to let other experience discus keepers chime in. 
most importantly keep an eye on the scrapes and prevent any fungal breakout.


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## Steve

What's the best way to heal the scrapes? Epsom salt?


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## tony1928

Steve said:


> What's the best way to heal the scrapes? Epsom salt?


Use marine or some other non iodized salt.

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## josephl

Could be a gh/kh swings if you just did water changes without adding anything, could be ich(hard to spot on blue diamonds); could be you changed something in the room that created shadows that spooked one fish which spooked the rest or silly enough though it might be, you wore a red shirt(someone told me this once and I didn't believe them then I accidentally wore a red colored t-shirt by my tank and my normally calm discus were going crazy)

I'm with Tony, water changes and sea salt(I use the one for marine tanks) and in a few days, you wouldn't know that the fish had been scratched up


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## discuspaul

That type of behavior can generally be attributable to a number of causes - one being some form of electrical discharge or current within the tank, (e.g. cracked heater), but more often than not it's the discus' reaction to toxicity of one kind or another - toxicity which could come from a number of different sources - like e.g., some type of aerosol spray within the home which has settled on the water surface; or gas from an anaerobic pocket which has been disturbed & released toxic gas; I've even heard of a few cases where a reaction has taken place within generally harmless ammonium, & broken down, some of which has re-produced as ammonia. This type of situation may occur when pH reduces to well under 6.0 within a tank - I'm no biologist, but that's the way I understand it.
What's your pH Steve, and have any of your discus tried to jump out ?


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## Steve

Tested the pH, it was 6.0. I noticed a discus jump like a week ago but I think it was more because the other was trying to peck at it but perhaps it has something to do with my tank. I noticed some white stuff on one of my corys yesterday which is now gone but now a blue ram has this white stuff on it. It's definitely not ich. Almost looks like it could be a worm of some sort? It's not on any of the other fish though and was only on the cory for a day so I'm really not sure what it is. I'll have to look more closely at my heaters to see if any are cracked but they're both pretty new so I'd hope not. I'll put some salt in the tank after I come home from work. I had some epsom salts in there from yesterday.


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## discuspaul

pH of 6.0 is borderline for when bio-filtration/beneficial bacteria begin to go more or less into dormancy, lose efficacity, and cease replenishing themselves.
What kind of test kit do you have, Steve ? Does it have readings for generally non-toxic ammonium ? 
Have you tested for ammonia recently ? And do you use Prime ?


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## Steve

I tested for ammonia this morning, was at 0, same with nitrites. I use a nutrifin test kit that has like little bottles of liquid chemicals except for pH I used strips. I didn't know beneficial bacteria went into dormancy etc. How do I change that? Should I be lowering/raising my pH? I don't use prime


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## Steve

Bumping this up because my fish are still darting here and there for small spurts and sometimes they'll dart into the glass or jump to jump out of the tank. I am honestly so confused as to what is wrong. It's a 55 gallon tank with 5 discus and 1 blue ram. I have about 6 plants in the tank, and about half of the bottom has gravel while another half is bare bottom. Ammonia and nitrites are zero. Nitrates range from 10-50 depending on how frequently I do water changes (every 2-3 days for 20-30%). Temperature is at about 86 degrees. I am wondering if perhaps they are scared of me? They only seem to dart when I get up off the couch or something of the sort. I also find that they don't swim around or eat exceptionally well. They usually just chill in one corner of the tank for most of the day and don't really swim. They eat freeze dried blackworms well in the morning but the 5 of them never seem to finish a whole cube and they don't really eat at other times. Anyone have any idea what I should be doing?


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## Immus21

All the advice above is great I'm sure but here is what I did when my herd was showing similar symptoms. For two days I added salt at 14 GRAMS per gallon for the bumps/scrapes. I used system saver II water softener salt which is like $6 for a 20kg bag. After I treated for 2 days with the salt I did a course of Tetra Parasite Guard (broad spectrum parasite treatment) for 2 additional days. I changed water 95% daily (replacing salt or medicine) during the 4 day total treatment and didn't use the salt and medicine at the same time. I was sceptical about such a large salt dose but it really helped with the scrapes. The symptoms my Discus were showing; lack of appetite, skittishness, darting wildly and darker color. This is what worked for me...


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## Debra52

I would do more water changes. I never let my nitrates go above 10 with my discus.


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## Steve

Thanks for that Immus; all of those symptoms are shown in my discus so I will look into trying that method. What temp did you keep your tank at while doing this?


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## Immus21

Between 86 - 88°F but please keep in mind I'm no expert and I was only following someone elses advice. I do 100% agree with the last post that you're Discus will benefit with more frequent water changes/lower nitrates.


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## Steve

Gonna build myself a DIY python to help with the water changes.. buckets are killing me


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## Immus21

Steve said:


> Gonna build myself a DIY python to help with the water changes.. buckets are killing me


For sure you need a waterchanger! Buckets are a pain...


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## discuspaul

Steve - there is something that disturbs me. You said your nitrates range from 10 -50. I find that very strange if, as you say, you're changing 20%-30% of water every 2 or 3 days. I can understand the nitrates being as high as 10 ppm or so with only 20% wcs say, twice a week - but they should not be as high as 40 or 50 ppm. Is your test kit still well within best usage dates ?

While discus can readily deal with nitrates of 10 ppm or somewhat higher with no ill effects, if you have even 30 or more ppm, that could very well be toxic for discus. Not so for most other species of fish, but discus do have low tolerance for high nitrates.

Hope you're not using any strips to test nitrates - if so, get yourself a proper chemical test kit for nitrates. Meantime, I'd suggest you up your wcs to 50% or more every second day, for a least a week to 10 days to see what improvement you might get. And keep testing nitrates every couple of days while you're doing that. Have you tested your tap water for nitrates ?

I'm quite certain this behavior is not due to you scaring them.


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## Steve

I have a "Nutrafin Test" kit. Its not strips. I got it from my girlfriend and its still within the best usage date. I did a 20ish% water change on Monday (evening) and tested my water just now (Wednesday ~3 am) and it shows up at about 10ppm I believe. I find the kit really hard to read to be honest >.> The colours seem pretty similar LOL. My test kit says to "hold the test sample flat against the paper" does that mean I should lie the sample down on a table so the liquid evenly disperses in the tube? If I hold the tube up vertically so all of the water is within the 5 mL sample line, the colour is quite a bit darker than if I lie the test tube horizontally on top of the test guide on a table. Basically the colour difference is between like 5/10ppm horizontal or 20+ ppm vertical.


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## discuspaul

You should hold it up vertically against the white background portion, after you have shaken the tube well.
Placing it down horizontally may skew the test results.


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## Steve

Okay thanks. I guess that puts me closer to 20 ppm after not even 2 days. I guess that means I'm overfeeding way way too much


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## discuspaul

It is generally accepted that discus do best in water with nitrates of 10 ppm or less, preferably near 0. Larger wcs will fix your problem of nitrates being @ 20 ppm. (Do 50% or more if you can). And if the nitrates were higher than 20 from to time, say up to 40 or 50, it wouldn't surprise me a bit that your discus would find that irritating, to say the least.
And yes, if you feel you're overfeeding - you probably are - so it wouldn't hurt to cut back some in that area too.

P.S. I do approx. 60% wcs - 3 X a week, and my nitrates are almost always 0, and never exceed 5 ppm.


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## Jondis21

discus fish dart here and there, could be parasite around the body or gill bit to irritate the fish. I used Potassium Permanganate and it woks for me.but I would try lots of water change and course salt first.
Good luck!


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