# Please Help Me Eliminate Gurgling From Drain to Sump



## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

Hi I recently got a 72gal with a 20 gal sump and converted it from a saltwater tank to a African Cichlid tank. The problem is that it is ridiculously loud and I cant even sleep at night due to the gurgling in the system. I think that I need to install a vent in the drain hose but i'm not sure and I don't know where the best place to put it would be. 

If i partly clamp the drain hose the sound is a little better but it is still loud. If I can make it work with the hosing I have i'd prefer it over piping it all in pvc, but if that will let me solve the problem it would be well worth it. 

Thanks in advance for any help and I'm open to all ideas

I've attached pictures showing the pump outlet and drain inlet as well as the hosing travelling to the sump underneath.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm not much help, but I've been researching this in considering building a sump for my 125 gallon and most often in a search, the Durso standpipe comes up. http://www.dursostandpipes.com/

I'm sure some reefers will find this and answer.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

Thanks 2wheelsx2, I have seen the product before but found it a little confusing, so now I e-mailed them asking if it would correct my problem. With any luck it will do the trick, once I hear back I'll let you know and if its the ticket I'll post pics of it installed.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

A Durso style standpipe is the way to go but not easy based on the location of your hole. Water needs air to travel and your smaller drain is sucking air like a vacuum. Your hole is so close to the water level that it makes for a tough modification at this point. I am going to have to think about this one for a bit.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Try making a cross cut in a foam and cover the intake.

or getting a sponge size like ATI sponge filter 3 or 4 and cover the intake. It might reduce the noise a bit.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

Thanks for the help guys, Charles I tried putting sponge over the inlet without sucess. The problem I ran into in tring this was that the outlet couldnt keep up and I nearly flooded my basement . I tried a number of different configurations but they either nearly flooded or else the foam was to small and got sucked down the hose into the sump. I tried that and then I tried the drilled end cap seen in the picture to try and break the large vortex that had been forming (when I got it the drain outlet was just an open street 90 elbow with a make shift grate) The end cap helped minimally but i kept it because it raised the water level slightly and I think it has a safer size opening since some of my fish are on the smaller side and they can swim right next to it without any problem. 

And Rastapus, I appreciate you giving it some thought, I'm still waiting to hear from Durso but I am puzzled on how to install the tube on my setup I'd like to have it as "clean" as possible. 

Once again thank for all the input


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I am a bit confused.

If you put a foam over, it will slow down the water coming down. Less volumne of water. Why would it flood your basement? If anything, your pump will be pumping your sump dried. In that case, you can install a ball value to let out some water back to your sump inside your sump, or release the plier which is slowing down your intake...


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## jkam (Apr 21, 2010)

What I did was put a 90 degree elbow on top so the hole is parallel to the water. It reduced the noise but my set up isnt the same as yours...Worth a try.


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## trilinearmipmap (Apr 25, 2010)

A Durso will quiet things down.

If you want a silent overflow, check out the Herbie's overflow system. I have been running this system for years and it works perfectly.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=344892


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

Under NO circumstances should you place foam into the drain. This will result in a flood eventually.

For a confined space such as yours some sort of modified Durso or a Stockman standpipe would be the best options. The bottom line is that you are attempting to introduce air into the drain in a controlled manner to stop the gurgling. 

Of course the Herbie overflow method is the best solution, but that would entail you having to re-drill at least on more hole.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

Hi, 

Charles, the reason it was almost flooded was that I couldn't get a happy medium using the sponge/foam and this caused the tank level to rise since the draining was slowed and the tank nearly overflowed several times, I decided it was too risky a situation since if there is a fluctuation and the tank overflowed I would be in a very bad situation. 

Jkam, I initially had the elbow parallel to the top of the water but the water was vortexing into the drain and was even louder, the main reason I would prefer to keep the end cap filled with holes on the drain is to spread the current out, it seems to work since my fish (even the small ones) have no trouble swimming right beside it without getting sucked into it. 

I think durso is my best bet I'm just confused about how I can plumb it into my tank. I started reading the herbie link, and will read more in the morning, although I would prefer not to have to drill another hole in the tank. 

In the morning I'm going to try to put a smaller hose down the outlet tube part way and through the endcap to the air, I am wondering if that would allow the air going down the hose a way to escape, I'm not holding my breath too much but i figure its worth a shot. 

Thanks for all the help guys, I can't wait to have this tank quiet. I put an electic yellow and 2 polits cichlids in it today, and all my fish seem to be loving it.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

Its unrelated to the problem, but here a a few pics of my Africans. They are pretty fast and the pictures don't do them a lot of justice but I like them.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

The noise is directly related to how fast your turnover is. Higher flow, more air being sucked in. A foam will flood for sure, as the foam gets dirty the water level will rise and flood. A durso system is best in an overflow application, you do not have an overflow, you have a drain. A proper screen will allow more dispersal over the drain area, it might help a bit and turn down the return flow. You don't need high turnover, if you have powerheads in there you will be fine. The drain looks like 1". not so good, I would have gone 1 1/2" but lets deal with the current situation.


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## bailey (Apr 24, 2010)

where is the noise coming from. your intake, too high and creating a vortex sucking in air. your sump, lower the intake and put in a u tube. lowering your intake will require a larger sump. 

bailey


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

The majority of the noise is coming from the inlet, it sounds like a coffee maker when it it running out of water. There is some noise coming from the sump as well, a boiling noise when the air is being dumped in but I think that correcting the air issue caused at the drain inlet will improve that as well. 

I tried looking at my pump to see if I could adjust the flow down but I couldn't see anywhere I could adjust it. I clamped the hose a bit to try to reduce the flow but it didn't make a huge difference and I am weary of overworking the pump since I don't want to put to much strain on it and I don't want it to heat my water anymore. 

This morning I attempted to put some aeration hose down the drain to try to vent some air as was suggested by a friend but so far I have been unsuccessful. 

The drain is 1" ID 1 1/4 OD, vinyl. It was the largest size at Rona so I got it initially just to get the tank running and replace the used hose which was a ribbed thin wall plastic hose that looks like it was off a vacuum cleaner. The pump hose is 3/4ID 1"OD vinyl. 

The pump is LifeTEch AP4550 and FLmax:2650 L/H I'll do some searching and maybe I can reduce the orifice size in it if I pull it apart and lower the flow. I have one power head in the tank right now and have another I'm planning on putting it but there is already a good amount of current in there from the one. 

I'm still waiting to hear from durso, but in the mean time I'll try to find out if I can improve the situation by reducing the flow rate of the pump.


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## DAN O (Apr 21, 2010)

If your looking to find a larger vinyl hose, you can try Green Line Hose and Fitting on Annacis Island. They have a vast warehouse, with a lots of food safe hose and fittings. Tell them your with the "Greater Vancouver Mustang Association" and you'll get 30% off...

http://www.411.ca/business/British-Columbia/Delta/Green-Line-Hose---Fitting/6141030.html


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

I wasn't able to find much information on my pump, I pulled it out again and had a better look but it doesn't appear to be adjustable at all. I talked to the guy I got the tank off and he said it wasn't loud when he was running it apart from a small gurgle every once and a while, he thought because he was running it to the skimmer. 

I do have the skimmer so i could clean it really well and try to incorporate it, but it doesn't seem like it would fix the problem to me since the problem is at the tank mainly not the sump. Having said that I'm not familiar with skimmers and perhaps it would help with the back pressure. He also suggested replacing the 90 that the drain hose connects to with a straight fitting, but i'm not sure that it would help and i don't have the clearance behind the tank to allow the hose to make a natural turn, plus at that point I would need to get a longer hose anyway and it becomes a bigger mess. 

I was wondering if I could drill a hole in the grey 90 and put a piece of pipe vertically into the hole and have it extend above the waterline if it would improve the situation. I attached an image of what I mean, I could drill an end cap on it to regulate the amount of air that could pass through it. If this worked I could get a reducing tee to replace the 90 and vent the air out at that point. I kinda think that this solution is to easy to actually work though and that if it was a viable solution someone would have suggested it by now, if its creating a vacuum at that point allowing a bunch more air to shoot down the tube instead of venting would probably make the noise much worse. hmmm


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Blair917 said:


> I wasn't able to find much information on my pump, I pulled it out again and had a better look but it doesn't appear to be adjustable at all. I talked to the guy I got the tank off and he said it wasn't loud when he was running it apart from a small gurgle every once and a while, he thought because he was running it to the skimmer.
> 
> I do have the skimmer so i could clean it really well and try to incorporate it, but it doesn't seem like it would fix the problem to me since the problem is at the tank mainly not the sump. Having said that I'm not familiar with skimmers and perhaps it would help with the back pressure. He also suggested replacing the 90 that the drain hose connects to with a straight fitting, but i'm not sure that it would help and i don't have the clearance behind the tank to allow the hose to make a natural turn, plus at that point I would need to get a longer hose anyway and it becomes a bigger mess.
> 
> I was wondering if I could drill a hole in the grey 90 and put a piece of pipe vertically into the hole and have it extend above the waterline if it would improve the situation. I attached an image of what I mean, I could drill an end cap on it to regulate the amount of air that could pass through it. If this worked I could get a reducing tee to replace the 90 and vent the air out at that point. I kinda think that this solution is to easy to actually work though and that if it was a viable solution someone would have suggested it by now, if its creating a vacuum at that point allowing a bunch more air to shoot down the tube instead of venting would probably make the noise much worse. hmmm


Do you mean a protein skimmer? If so it will not work on a freshwater tank well enough to bother and I am not sure why that would be considered helpful in this situation. This had to be a problem for the previous owner. I noticed you have a pair of pliers restricting the drain, or is that the return you mentioned. If it is the drain I would not have that there as restricting the drain will not help but rather create a intermittent suction that would be louder than a constant gurgling. I have pm'd you with a suggestion.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

I think I may have it at the best I will be able to achieve, I put a piece of aeration tubing through the top of the inlet drilled end cap and down through the drain to 6 inches down the vinyl drain. It has been silenced to a trickle only gurgling periodically. I made sure that the inner tubing wasn't tangled inside the drain, as i think this was part of my problem when I tried this earlier today. Its not perfect but its about 75% better than it had been 

I attempted making a modified durso using 1" (the size to my drain) but the water didn't drain fast enough and the level rose continuously. I will probably attempt it again but scale it up so that the flow is less restricted. 

I have removed the vice grips from the drain line, I wasn't a big fan for putting them there in the first place but it helped a little bit. 

Its still not perfect but its way better, I'll continue to try to improve it


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

...well it seemed better for about an hour ...the periodic gurgling is becoming more and more frequent.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Raise the drain line from under the water level of the sump. The water is probably backing up as well due to slight back pressure. The drain should run freely in to the sump.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

I'll raise the drain from the water and try the modified durso again, fingers crossed


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

I've restricted the flow (using a temporary clamp on the hose from the pump to the tank) and I will plumb in a proper valve tomorrow. It seems to have helped dramatically.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

Restricting the flow has helped with the noise but now the temperature seems to be slowly climbing. 

Normally its a degree cooler in the morning but this morning it was the same temperature it rose to last night. It is still in an okay range (79 F right now) but i don't want it to climb much more.

I think the pump is doing all the heating, I haven't seen my heaters kick in once since the tank got to temperature the first time. 

I'll keep monitoring it and I will be installing a permanent valve in the line in several hours.


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## Blair917 (May 10, 2010)

I've attached some pictures of the modifications I have made that seem to be helping, although I am still keeping an eye on the temperature. 

I installed a valve in the line from the pump to the tank to regulate the flow, it is closed approx 70%

I put a second power head in to help with water circulation

I still haven't been able to get any success with a modified durso, so in the meantime I have made a more secure breather tube which I have attached to a drilled end-cap using aquarium safe adhesive. 

I also put a tee at the bottom of the drain with drilled pipe on each side and end-caps to spread the draining water over my filter media more effectively.


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