# How do people do water changes for monster tanks?



## BettaGuy (Apr 22, 2010)

I've always kept tanks of 20 gallons or smaller, and simply used aged water sitting in buckets with Prime to dechlorinate it. However, I was hoping to some day upgrade to a 50 - 100 gallon tank, and I am perplexed as to how people perform water changes.

I've heard of something called the "python" for water changes, where water travels directly from the faucet to a tank. Do people simply use warm water from the tap? Is that even safe? Are we to be concerned about chlorine, pH fluctuations, and corroded metals in the pipe?

Mike


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

For average 50% w/c's, I use a DIY python type system, except when I drain/vaccum it, I drain it straight outside. The python uses a venturi system which means you have to use water from the sink to create a vacuum. That is simply wasting water imo, as it uses more clean/fresh water, than the waste water you actually drain from your tank. As for refilling, all you need is a Lee's Ultimate Super Pump (Replacement Part) ( available at most LFS's for less than $15) and a long enough garden hose. I cut the garden hose in half and used the female end for the filling part , from the sink to the tank. The other half of the hose I connected my gravel cleaner hose and just run it outside. As far siphoning methods go, I find it's much stronger & faster outflow, than having it hooked to the sink and wasting alot of good water to get the same result except slower.

As for the temp, I use my digital thermometer to see what the tank temp is. I then get the tap water to 1 or 2 degrees less then the existing aquarium water temp (this also simulates a fresh rain shower, the fish usually enjoy & sometimes sparks breeding), then start filling. I keep the hose up high so it splashes as it fills,this helps to degas things like chlorine as well as add a little extra Oxygen.

The Ph from my tap is very acceptable already so no worries there. As for adding conditioners, buffers and such. The water conditioner I add while refilling , right to the incoming water from the hose. As for the buffers, I figure out what I need premix it in a 2 liter pop bottle 1/2-3/4 full of water. I then add that to the incoming water during refilling as well. Helps mix it faster imo. Been doing it for a couple years like that and cannot think of one issue brought on by it.


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## mcrocker (May 29, 2010)

Personally, I siphon water out my patio(ground level) door and into a drain. Pythons and similar units have a venturi valve, which uses water pressure from the tap to suck water out of your tank. They are not all that fast for a larger tank, and you waste additional water just for pumping. It's better if you have a low point to siphon to, or use a powerhead/mag drive pump to push the water through a hose.

I just add the dechlorinator in advance then fill the tank with approximately the right temperature. The dechlorinator acts pretty quickly, so the chlorine shouldn't impact your fish much.(just have your filters off) If the metals aren't taken out by the water treatment, it won't really matter whether you add it as you fill the tank or in buckets beforehand, they will still be there.

As for the PH fluctuations, I assume that means you buffer, otherwise it won't make a difference whether you add from aged buckets or directly from the tap, since I don't think the PH will change. To avoid any major fluctuations you can premix your buffers in a bucket and gradually add them as you fill the tank, stirring as you go. For temperature, you can measure it as you go and adjust your tap water temperature if it is changing.

The other way to be easier on your fish is to do lots of small changes rather than less frequent larger ones. Eg, if you did 2 5 gallon buckets every 2 days in a 100G tank, you would be changing plenty of water per week and the chlorine would have enough time to evaporate.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

nice post


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## mcrocker (May 29, 2010)

Wow, almost the same post at the same time. Diztrbd1, you beat me to the punch!


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

lol great minds think alike


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

Hello. at home i use a Hagen product just like the python. woks great, at the pet store i use buckets to drain and a Hagen to fill. again just add water conditioner. big tanks are easier to maintain water chemistry. just a little more work with the amount of water changed. most or all of the 100 plus gallons i change water on, stay the same chemistry after a water change unlike small tanks that need adjusting. Cheers


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## josephl (Apr 21, 2010)

I've got a 210 gallon and a 72 gallon. 210 gallon gets 2 X 50% water changes daily and the 72 gallon gets 1 x 50%. 

I use a python and use the tap to just start the suction and let gravity take care of the draining. To refill, I'm much less scientific than most people, crank the hot and cold water to full, throw in 2 caps of prime and one tablespoon of Equilibrum for the big tank and 1/2 that for the bottom tank and try to remember to turn off before overflowing


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## Ktowncichlids (Apr 23, 2010)

I use a python like kit as well but my tank is above ground level so I just drain it out into my front gardens, Havent bought fertilizer in ages.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

We keep a 5 gal bucket of the crap water around, does wonders for the plants for sure.


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

BettaGuy said:


> I've always kept tanks of 20 gallons or smaller, and simply used aged water sitting in buckets with Prime to dechlorinate it. However, I was hoping to some day upgrade to a 50 - 100 gallon tank, and I am perplexed as to how people perform water changes.
> 
> I've heard of something called the "python" for water changes, where water travels directly from the faucet to a tank. Do people simply use warm water from the tap? Is that even safe? Are we to be concerned about chlorine, pH fluctuations, and corroded metals in the pipe?
> 
> Mike


Best way to learn is to volunteer to help with water changes. :lol:

I'm sure there's many of us that wouldn't mind letting you do a few water changes until you get the hang of it.

I personally use a python type of system for my tank upstairs, for the basement, I use a utility pump and pump water from storage barrels that's already aged and heated with any necessary buffers already added in.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

josephl said:


> To refill, I'm much less scientific than most people, crank the hot and cold water to full


 That only works with an on-demand hot water heater. If you use a tank, changing 100 gallons of water, you would boil the fish and then freeze it for most people with a 40 gallon hot water tank.


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## josephl (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> That only works with an on-demand hot water heater. If you use a tank, changing 100 gallons of water, you would boil the fish and then freeze it for most people with a 40 gallon hot water tank.


Good point, thanks for bringing it up.

As a funny aside, had to put in the on demand hot water system, using a 'traditional hot water tank', my wife used to get frozen and wasn't very happy that discus were getting priority over her....

Another interesting discovery as a result of these massive water changes is that I discovered what got plecos to breed. When I first installed the on demand hot water tank, it didn't work properly and I didn't know so after draining the tank, I cranked the hot and cold faucets and let it refill. Unknown to me, it was only refilling with 100 gallons of cold water. Surprisingly, it didn't affect the discus at all but created a pleco breeding orgy


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

josephl said:


> Unknown to me, it was only refilling with 100 gallons of cold water. Surprisingly, it didn't affect the discus at all but created a pleco breeding orgy


Works for most catfish, but for me it worked for my Heckel and Cupeia cross also, but the drop was only 3 degrees C.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

We've got large tanks and I currently do a low-tech drain on the water change. We went to Rona and bought 50' of flexible 1" sump hose (about $10). I rubber banded coarse gauze over the pipe end to prevent any fish from vanishing, ran the pipe out the door, started the siphon going and let it run! Credit goes to bonsai dave for the idea. When we have the really large tanks (180g) set up, I'll probably add a pump to do this even faster, but right now the slow part is refilling the tanks with the python.

I still manually vacuum the gravel to get any poop while the water drains, but that's typically only a few buckets, and the house plants love it.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

On my smaller tanks I use gravity to remove the old water into my sink. At the same time I am filling a large bucket with tap water in the other side of the sink. I than run a powerhead in the bucket using the same hose to fill the tank back up. No spills, no lifting. Quick and easy.

On my big tanks I use a garden hose and gravity to drain them. I installed a fitting on the washroom sink to hook up the garden hose to refill. 

At work we use the python. I do find it is a little slow a draining but overall it does work well for most people 

I never thought to use old tank water for my plants. Thanks for the tip. I will be doing that from now on.


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

I have a 55g, and how I clean it is the exact same way I clean my smaller tanks.

Gravel vac the contents into a 5g bucket. For a while there I would pour all the gunk into my bathtub and let it drain, but eventually it would clog and we'd have to draino it, which I would rather not do. So instead, I just dump all the water into my plants outside. Figured there's some good fertilizer food for them and so on.

When it comes to filling it, same deal. Run the bathtub water until it's at the right temperature, then fill my bucket and pour it back into my tank with my chemicals and so on.

So yeah. That's all I do. Might not be the best of ways to go about it, but it certainly works for me, and my plants seem to appreciate the weekly watering.


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

50% waterchanges weekly. i don't have monster tanks but have well stocked cichlid tanks and fry tanks. I actually find fry tanks a bigger concern as it's easy to overfeed and have build up.


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## shady280 (Oct 17, 2011)

For my 120 I do the weekly change of about 30/35%. I have a cheap 50' garden hose with a valve on the tank end. I backfill the hose with the valve closed from my laundry sink. Then take the hose off the sink and let it go. Changed in 30 or less. To fill is reverse and I just hold the hose to get the temp close


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## waterbox (Nov 26, 2011)

Since returning to the hobby after many years away, I've noticed that the biggest change (outside of the invention of the internet) is that people seem to recommend much higher-volume water changes than used to be the case. I'm only doing about 15% a week, but then my tank is quite understocked.

Once a week, I siphon about 15% of the aquarium's water into a 20-gallon plastic storage bin ($8 from Canadian Tire). In another storage bin I have the same volume of water which has been been aged for several days. By then it's up to room temperature. I use a submersible 250-watt heater to bring the water up to aquarium temperature, which takes five or six hours. Finally, I use a hose attached to a powerhead to re-fill the aquarium with the aged water, and also to drain the old water from the storage bin into my kitchen sink. 

I never use any chemicals to treat the water, just time. If I put the lid on the storage bin immediately after I fill it with tap water, then go away for 24 hours and take off the lid, the air above the water smells like a chlorinated swimming pool! So I'm pretty confident that the chlorine is leaving the water.

By the way, my cat loves to drink from that aged-water bin. And he loves the water that the fish have been living in even more! 

I also use the water siphoned from the aquarium to water plants.


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## Flygirl (Jul 23, 2011)

I've also been using the python for all of my tanks except the shrimp tank - largest one being 210 gal. Python works great, and you do not need to run your tap to while you empty the tank. The tap is only turned on initially to start the siphon, this takes a few seconds (depending on the length of hose - mine is 25ft). Then the taps are turned off and the water drains on its own. For filling, near the end, I catch some of the outgoing tank water in a small pail and use that for a temperature comparison as I turn on the taps. With the python, I turn on the faucets with the hose still draining and match the temp, then I close off the valve and redirect the water into the tank. I use prime and dose for the full volume of the tank, not the amount of water change. Also, shut off the filters during the water change. I add a little bit of baking soda with each water change to bring up the buffering capacity as our tap water is super soft. Other than that - nothing else. I don't mind that the python is a bit slow in draining, it allows me time to trim the plants. When adding, I pull the end out and shoot the water in to help with degassing and mixing. Seems to work very well, including the discus grow out tank.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

For my 400 I use a 2wheelsx2 brand super safety siphon. I drains so fast that I have to keep an eye on it or the pump will run dry. I only can change about 100 gallons at a time as my hot water tank will be depleted at that point resulting in angry kids and wife. Refill is sraight from the faucet to the tank, probably slightly colder than regular tank temps. With my volume of water, there's not much impact to overall temps. I dose prime and add a little buffer now and then when my TDS readings drop below 100. Pretty easy and getting easier as I get used to doing all these wc's for discus. Though I am only doing 2 per week right now. I still have 3 tanks for now and its a bit of a production after the kids gone to bed.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Flygirl said:


> I've also been using the python for all of my tanks except the shrimp tank - largest one being 210 gal. Python works great, and you do not need to run your tap to while you empty the tank. The tap is only turned on initially to start the siphon, this takes a few seconds (depending on the length of hose - mine is 25ft). Then the taps are turned off and the water drains on its own. For filling, near the end, I catch some of the outgoing tank water in a small pail and use that for a temperature comparison as I turn on the taps. With the python, I turn on the faucets with the hose still draining and match the temp, then I close off the valve and redirect the water into the tank. I use prime and dose for the full volume of the tank, not the amount of water change. Also, shut off the filters during the water change. I add a little bit of baking soda with each water change to bring up the buffering capacity as our tap water is super soft. Other than that - nothing else. I don't mind that the python is a bit slow in draining, it allows me time to trim the plants. When adding, I pull the end out and shoot the water in to help with degassing and mixing. Seems to work very well, including the discus grow out tank.


Hey Im pretty sure baking soda does nothing for buffering your tank. It does raise the ph. How ever it does nothing to help your tank maintain a buffering cappacity. Im sure Raspatus could explain why. I used to use baking soda for years but now with great products out there like Seachem alkaline and acid buffer there is no reason to use baking soda. If you use actual buffering products you will find over time you barely need to add any buffering products to maintain the desired PH. If you use seachem alkaline buffer it is recomended to use acid buffer aswell in a 2 to 1 ratio. It tells you on the label. Seachem also makes a product called ph neutral 7.0 if that is the ph you are after. I hope I dont sound like a jerk just trying to help! Good luck


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Hey Im pretty sure baking soda does nothing for buffering your tank. It does raise the ph. How ever it does nothing to help your tank maintain a buffering cappacity. Im sure Raspatus could explain why. I used to use baking soda for years but now with great products out there like Seachem alkaline and acid buffer there is no reason to use baking soda. If you use actual buffering products you will find over time you barely need to add any buffering products to maintain the desired PH. If you use seachem alkaline buffer it is recomended to use acid buffer aswell in a 2 to 1 ratio. It tells you on the label. Seachem also makes a product called ph neutral 7.0 if that is the ph you are after. I hope I dont sound like a jerk just trying to help! Good luck


YMMV but I've had good success using baking soda as a buffer. It raises my KH from 0dH to about 5dH and a steady pH of 7.6. I add in 2 tbsp to a 60g water change and the parameters does not fluctuate before the next water change. The problem with baking soda is that it is not as soluable as other products I use. I like Sechem products, I use Tanganyikan buffer, Alkaline buffer for smaller non african tanks. For me, baking soda does the job at a great price point.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I think the key is to use baking soda along with other additives as baking soda alone is not enough. I gets pH up for a short while only. I know alot of people on cichlidforum make their own african cichlid buffer with pickling salt, baking soda, and epsom. For my discus tank, I'm using a GH booster, some marine salt, and epsom. I use it just to keep the TDS up to prevent any pH crashes. So far so good.


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## BettaGuy (Apr 22, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your replies! I will definitely consider all of your responses .


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## discusdude (Jan 29, 2012)

l move just over 100gal a day. the only problem is 1/2 way l have to wait 20min for the hot water tank to catch up. l don't worry about anything except the chlorine and chloramine. l use Prime and thats it. gravity to drain and the T off a python to fill. hoses don't like to be bent like going strait out of the nozzle and up and over the sink. takes me about 45min a day. oh ya l only have Discus, in a 76, 39, 2x20gal tanks.


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## Flygirl (Jul 23, 2011)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Hey Im pretty sure baking soda does nothing for buffering your tank. It does raise the ph. How ever it does nothing to help your tank maintain a buffering cappacity. Im sure Raspatus could explain why. I used to use baking soda for years but now with great products out there like Seachem alkaline and acid buffer there is no reason to use baking soda. If you use actual buffering products you will find over time you barely need to add any buffering products to maintain the desired PH. If you use seachem alkaline buffer it is recomended to use acid buffer aswell in a 2 to 1 ratio. It tells you on the label. Seachem also makes a product called ph neutral 7.0 if that is the ph you are after. I hope I dont sound like a jerk just trying to help! Good luck


Actually it does. If you have low KH, you can use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate NaHCO3) to increase the carbonate hardness (KH) of your water. This is the same as buffering capacity or alkalinity. Adding baking soda will not increase your general hardness (GH). What was said about epsom salts refers to GH.

I'm sure the various commercially produced buffers work great, but why pay for something when there is an easy home remedy that works.


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## enzotesta (Dec 20, 2011)

If you let water sit in a bucket for 24 hours you don't need any chemicals to remove the chlorine. Also a 50-100g compared to a 20g is no different in doing water changes, it just takes a tad longer ....lol
A simple "python" will do the job just fine.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Flygirl said:


> I'm sure the various commercially produced buffers work great, but why pay for something when there is an easy home remedy that works.


Home remedies are great, but the reason I personally pay for the commercially produced stuff is they are specific for their use, for the job intended for, without any unwanted effects usually. Home remedies usually are not as stable IME. I worked on pools for many years and found most people trying to save money with "home remedies" which the effects would be short lived, unstable & the possibility of changing one of the other parameters. . Also you don't get professional dosage charts, which could cause more problems with overdosing. No expert here......just sayin'


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Diztrbd1 said:


> Home remedies are great, but the reason I personally pay for the commercially produced stuff is they are specific for their use, for the job intended for, without any unwanted effects usually. Home remedies usually are not as stable IME. I worked on pools for many years and found most people trying to save money with "home remedies" which the effects would be short lived, unstable & the possibility of changing one of the other parameters. . Also you don't get professional dosage charts, which could cause more problems with overdosing. No expert here......just sayin'


The commercially produced stuff is specificly used to MAKE MONEY.
Overpriced garbage,mostly.
Judging from the comments,a lot of folks don`t know how to use the commerical stuff either,"professional dosage charts" and all.

Can`t agree w/your stability observation either.The chemicals don`t know which bottle they came out of.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

kelownaguy said:


> The commercially produced stuff is specificly used to MAKE MONEY.
> Overpriced garbage,mostly.
> Judging from the comments,a lot of folks don`t know how to use the commerical stuff either,"professional dosage charts" and all.
> 
> Can`t agree w/your stability observation either.The chemicals don`t know which bottle they came out of.


Tylenol doesn't know what bottle it come out of either, but it sure does a great job getting rid of a headache, as it was intended for 
As much as I can respect your opinion...... we can definitely agree to disagree, everybody is entitled to their opinions . Never said that I was right or an expert, though 17 years in the swimming pool industry and testing/treating 50 pools or more a week and fighting to keep them balanced with optimum conditions & clear all season w/o knowing what goes on between once a week visits, I would like to think I know a little about water and chemicals. If you think I like paying for the commercially produced stuff myself, you'd be highly mistaken my friend. I have had much better luck using the commercially produced chemicals over the cheap alternatives. Just posting what I know from experience. I find it odd that people will pay some of the prices for fish & equipment like they do, but when it comes to the chemicals to make your fish have a better balanced and better quality water, most would prefer to cheap out with the exception of water conditioner/chlorine removers. Like pools, aquariums do not all share the same parameters/water chemistry due to the many variables. What may work for one persons tank, may have different results in anothers tank. This where it helps to understand water chemistry & how one thing affects another. Once again, this is MY non expert, personal opinion and experience and personal preference. 
With that said, this is kind of straying away for the original topic here. If you want a chemical debate , feel free to start a thread on it.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

If I have to change 100g water regular in the summer.

I would pick up a couple rain barrel and let the water warm-up and age outside and pump that into the tank with a sump pump and a garden hose. If water is still not warm enough, mix in HW from HWT. Faster and save energy used to heat very cold water coming from the pipe in the cold ground.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I use one or two clear hoses from my display tank down to my bathtub with the outlets inside a net just in case something gets sucked up. I use a Maxijet1200 to pump the mixed sw into from the 50g+ barrels into the sump.

With sw its a 2 day process since I mix up the sw one day and do the siphoning/pumping on the second day. Doing a 115g water change today (got one barrel and a 65g tank of newly mixed sw waiting for me to get my butt in gear).


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