# starting an african community tank need guidance



## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

Hello, 

New to this site and to african cichlids! I currently just moved and got rid of all my community fish to friends and pet stores. Now I'm redoing my tank and would like to go african cichlid. I have a 90 gallon tank with a rena xp3 filter. Right now i have gravel in buckets and i recently purchased close to 40lbs of crushed coral for raising ph. any advice on stocking, decorating, and any other advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## fishinmind (Sep 10, 2010)

If I may suggest you go to check out the AGA aquascape contest site to see a variety of designs. Then I would research the fishes of the 3 main rift lakes. You will notice that there are several subsets to consider. Cichlid Forum is a good reference site.You will find that each subset of fish has different types of territories. Once you under stand some love rocks and caves, some love open water and some just need space or sand to create a breeding site. Personally my preference is fish with unique behavior but there is lots to chose from.
Try to find knowledgeable hobbiests to get you started. You should be able to locate all the resources you need on this site if you are patient. The sponsors should be able to assist you as well. Well good luck and you should be able to get lots of support here.


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## rich16 (Mar 25, 2011)

You have so many options...this is the fun part, deciding what you want!
Narrow down what you want in terms of lakes - Malawi or Tanganyika. I'm not too up with my Tanganiykan cichlids, so I'll stick with Malawis..
Decide between Mbuna or Peacocks / Haps. Male only (more colorful) or breeding groups?

As for decorating - plants will generally be uprooted or shredded, except for some of the tougher ones (java fern, anubia...). Rock formations with caves to break line of site, and give hiding places are a must. Check photo gallerys of other tanks to get ideas.

Check this out: Cookie Cutter - 75-gallons for stocking suggestions. It will give you some ideas of how to get started. 
Have fun, and post your progress, and pictures!


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

Welcome to your new addiction! haha

I was in your shoes about 8 months ago, except I had a tank given to me with Malawi cichlids. It was mixed Mbuna/Peacocks/Haps and mostly male with a few females that my friend didn't identify. The more you educate yourself on these little terrorists the better. They have loads of personality but the wrong mix can get ugly because they can be pretty aggressive. I ended up going with an all-male Peacock/Hap tank and it has been challenging getting the right balance. I've had to get rid of almost half of the fish that came in the tank I was given (because they were female, too aggressive, too weak/passive or there was more than one of that species) and I upgraded the tank to a 90g.

I would suggest increasing your filtration because cichlids can have quite a large bio-load when full grown. Simply adding an AC110 would be enough and you can get one at a good price from King Ed Pet or watch for a used one in the classifieds. Cichlid-Forum, like someone else mentioned, is a great resource for researching the different fish, stocking ideas and they have a huge profiles section that details each species, complete with pictures. The general idea is to pick one or two fish that you "must have" and then work the rest of your stocklist around them. You need to pick other species with similar aggression traits so the males colour up to their full potential and you need to pick the right balance/ratio of males&females if you're going with breeding groups. By doing this, you will be able to hopefully limit the amount of bullying/aggression that goes on. Be prepared to either give away or take any fish to a LFS at any given time. Having a quarantine/hospital is also pretty helpful.

Lastly, A good rule of thumb for a 4ft tank... Try to aim for cichlids that don't get bigger than 6" full grown. I have a few now that will get bigger than that but I plan on upgrading to a 6ft tank within the next year and they're still around 3-4" in size.

Good luck, have fun and feel free to ask more questions!


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

Thanks all great suggestions. As per two fish I really like the look of the yellow labs, saulosi and johannis. As for bottom feeders/algae eaters will a common be fine in a tank like that? I guess with those type I suggested that's a mbuna setup? I've read a lot aboUt powerheads are they necessary?


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

Also whats the better choice between all make and breeding? And if they do breed what do you do with the fry?


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## fishinmind (Sep 10, 2010)

The beauty of the colorful Africans the breed readily and are often easily sold or traded for goods or cash. There are some great little mbuna t do well with peacocks/ haps. Check out viaquaria for deals. There is a fellow who has a ton of juvenile cichlids he will sell dirt cheap. Many types and all under 4.00! Well good Luck.


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## rich16 (Mar 25, 2011)

Yellow labs and saulosi are nice choices. Only issue may be that the female salousi are yellow - just like the labs. Also both of these are more peaceful mbunas, and would get along better with peacocks.
I have 4 bristle nose plecos in my Malawi tank for algae control, and they do fine, no one bugs them. On the other hand, I've heard of plecos being harassed by larger Africans, so it can go either way. I've often seen large common plecos in cichlid tanks.

Advantages to an all male tank is pretty much color. Females (especially haps/peacocks) tend to be smaller / drabber. With labs, both are bright yellow. Also in an all male tank, you don't have to worry about correct male / female ratios (usually 1m/3f as a rule).

As for fry - depends what you want to do. I have two fry tanks running now - one with peacocks, one in preperation for a holding female. I've also just let the females spit the fry into the main tank, and whatever happens happens. I have two zebra that are now about 2" and 3 little 1/2" hongi that are fun to watch growing up. Just depends on how much effort (and how many fry / grow out tanks) you want to put in.

Powerheads - I find my africans like the extra current. More important, though, is filtration, like Sidius suggested. Over filtration is a good idea with Africans, as they are poop machines.


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

I like the idea of the breeding but I don't really have anther tank setup. So I'm not sure what I would do. Are the juvies fairly easy to sell/give away due to overcrowding? Also what kind of peacocks would you recommend? And how many full grown fish can I have I. A 90g?


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

Good luck with your new adventure, it's going to be fun!

I have had the most enjoyment, least problems with Peacocks. They are colourful, not overly aggressive, and don't generally exceed 6".

My 2 cents re: breeding, if you are not focused on improving a specific breed of fish. Cichlids in particular, it's not worth the bother.

They breed like crazy, everybody and their cat are selling them for very little. If you aren't very selective about who/what/where etc...
you end up with a mixed bag of whatever cichlids that are not helpful to the breed..

Whatever you do pick, feed them NLS.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

An XP3 for a 90g is not enough unless you are only planning to have a few fish. XP3 has 3 holders. One of which is used for pre-filtering out with sponges. So you only left with 2 small size area holder for your bio-media. I would recommand getting either a HOB 110 or another XP4, or better yet, eheim 2075.

If you don't care about breeding, go with all male peacocks/haps. It would make a nice display tank. And you can also copy what mdwflyer does, talk to him about his SA fancy plecos / African peacock/hap mix tank. He does very well with it.


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

Ya those are Mbuna and if you're going with Mbuna then you definitely want to overstock and go with breeding groups. All male Mbuna tanks can be a major pain in the @$$ from what I've heard. Most of them are more aggressive than peacocks/haps. You will also want to read up on the ratio of male/female for each species because some Mbuna need larger schools (at least 8-12 fish for Demasoni and you'll want at least 1m for every 3-4f for example). I have never had Mbuna or researched them that extensively though, this is just what I've read from all the posts on Cichlid-Forum. I definitely suggest reading through as much as you can on that website. It's a wealth of information and the people are very helpful.

Ya I agree with charles about the filtration. I'm running an Eheim 2075, AC110 and an Emperor400 on my 90g (basically I have over 13x's filtration per hour). I also run a couple circulation pumps to try and keep the waste from settling on the bottom and a phosban reactor to help keep my phosphates in check. It might be overkill but I know I can overstock my tank with no issues and I have a lot of options for customizing my media between all 3 filters.


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

haha cool after seeing your video with all those peacocks and haps i think i might be changing my mind towards them! they are great looking fish with lots of activity! and yes ive been searching for an ac110 like you've recommend to add on. In a peacock tank do you also need plenty of places for them to hide?


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

I see that your tank is steering towards Malawi,but there is a great variety of tanganyikans you could enjoy. I've had both and tangs are definitely more fun to watch.From gobies to Tropheus then Calvus you can have such a lively tank.If you have any ?'s or would like to see my tank then just let me know.


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

You want to have some rocks and hiding places because they do feel safe if they have something they can retreat to. Certain Haps will stay near the bottom (like my S.Fryeri for example) but as a general rule, Peacocks/Haps like the open water more than rocks. I switch up the way the rocks are positioned every so often so they don't develop any specific "territory" but I always give them caves and tunnels to explore.

Some Mbuna work well with Peacocks/Haps as well. Yellow Labs are pretty common in this setup. They like to dig in the sand and it can be pretty entertaining to watch them dig out a new cave after you switch things around on them (I had one for a while when I first got the tank but he would get pretty nasty about protecting the "caves" he built so I eventually got rid of him). Just be careful of how you setup your rocks because it could all come tumbling down, lol.

Like Vman said, I've heard that Tangs make pretty great tank inhabitants too. I just don't know much about them, other than the one Frontosa that I have. I'll let him fill you in on what they're like


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

For filtration would another xp3 be sufficient? What is the benefit of the HOB?


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

A HOB like the AC110 tends to move more water per hour, giving better mechanical filtration but mostly it's just that it's cheaper lol. If you're going to add another canister, I would do as Charles suggested and go with an xp4 or an Eheim 2075 so you have 4 baskets for media, plus larger baskets in general I think. I have a 2075 and that canister is amazing.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

If you are going hap/peacock, it's not so much hiding spots and making separate areas for them to hang out where they don't see each other. Some smaller, some bigger.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

You are in for a fun adventure. Ive had my 125g African tank for a few months now and its been awesome. Best advice I can give is read, read, read, ask questions. Over filter the tank because Africans are always hungry and most people overstock the tank to help with aggression so you need to make sure the filters can handle the bio load . The HOB filter is a good idea especially because they are easy to clean. With African bringing home 1 new fish can change the whole dynamics of the tank which can be painfull to watch a fish get terrorized.

Check out my tank journal. I wrote down everything Ive done and tried. http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/tank...ank-project-day-36-video-update-pg-6-a-28602/


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

Ya it's like a chain effect. You introduce one fish and all of a sudden you're having to watch fish that were never aggressive before, bully other fish. I've noticed just changing up the layout of the rocks can have the same effect if one fish suddenly wants to claim everything as his as well. It's been the most fun I've ever had with an aquarium.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Ya the most fun and most addicted Ive been. LOL. Actually being allowed to over stock a fish tank. Cant argue with that!


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

another way to deal with aggression is to not make any caves.

I have done tank with big stand alone blouder, depends on length of your tank, you can put 2 or 3. No hiding space = no space to fight for. Works good.


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

That's a good suggestion Charles.. I never thought about that but when I first got my tank, all I had was some drift wood for decoration and the fish never seemed to fight over anything. Since adding my holey rock, my Venustus seems to have become more aggressive.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Let them breed! = money
I have a 90 full of 4-5" africans and about 7 babies some as recent as the other day ( I suspect )
Im in the process of setting up a 40g fry tank, let them colour up and sell them. 

When you notice the mom is carrying put her over. 

I highly suggest a sand like substrate, cichlids are diggers, i think 1/4 of my 90 is now a bare bottem tank lol
Dont get live plants! Cichlids shred them. Also consider caves! 

Go check out my pictures, feel free to PM me with any questions, i'll answer what I can and find the answer for what I can't.

But I say breeder, it is coolto see tiny fish swimming around my wife will watch them for 10 minutes lol


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Charles, I have probably 60+ lbs of base rock tones of holes, my male rubins chase each other, but I havn't seen a tone of aggression. It depends on the fish tho ( as you know ) 

Another piece of advise, start with labs, acei, demasoni, avoid zebra's, johanni they are really comman, and really aggressive


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

Lots of good advice here! Currently trying to find an extra filter for my tank with a good price! Found another xp3 for 60$ but not sure if that is sufficient. Still haven't decided whether to get mbuna or peacock. I like the idea of all
Male peacock just so they don't breed and I don't have to worry bou it. But I also really like the looks of mbunas but is it really that easy to move all those fry? And what's the process of starting an mbuna tank? Get a lot of juvies then destinguish sex after and establish ratios?


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## rich16 (Mar 25, 2011)

Mikey2455 said:


> But I also really like the looks of mbunas but is it really that easy to move all those fry? And what's the process of starting an mbuna tank? Get a lot of juvies then destinguish sex after and establish ratios?


Yep. Start with 8 or so juveniles. As they mature and start to color up, remove the males. As for catching / removing fry, it's much easier to catch and seperate the holding female before she spits, and then return her to the main tank.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Mikey2455 said:


> Lots of good advice here! Currently trying to find an extra filter for my tank with a good price! Found another xp3 for 60$ but not sure if that is sufficient. Still haven't decided whether to get mbuna or peacock. I like the idea of all
> Male peacock just so they don't breed and I don't have to worry bou it. But I also really like the looks of mbunas but is it really that easy to move all those fry? And what's the process of starting an mbuna tank? Get a lot of juvies then destinguish sex after and establish ratios?


Buying a whole bunch of juvies to start is a good way to start. Thats how I started my African tank. One of the downfalls I have found is they grow slow. Im trying to patiently wait for some of my juvies to color up. The other thing that isnt good about buying a bunch at once IMO is most of the time you will buy some off one person so they are all brothers and sisters which can cause diformitis. What you could do is get rid of the males and keep all the females than go buy males off someone else or vise versa. Ive read people do this with frontosas to start their colony. The dominant male grows faster than the females. So you get rid of him. Than another male will grow quick and the cycle continues. If you decide to go All male peacock and Haps there are some munbas they do well with them like yellow labs. I have some in my tank to mix it up a little bit. They stay in the rocks while the Peaocks are out in the open. Gives good balance.


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

Whats NLS?


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

ThePhoenix said:


> Whats NLS?


NLS = New Life Spectrum food I believe.


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

Quick update I've gotten all my equipment together and am looking into tang cichlids pretty vigorously thanks to Vman suggestion. Does anyone know a good place to good quality rocks for a good price for aquascaping?


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

North West Landscape seems to be a favorite on this forum. I bought my mexican bowl rock from there. It was cheap and they had a huge selection


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Glad to hear you are going Tang.If you ever go to Harrison then you can pick some stunning rock there. I had a bunch before I sold it to Moloto. I've changed to petrified wood now,but it cost me over $300 just for 10+ pieces.Looks great though.And if you decide that you do want Trophs then you don't need many rocks anyways.


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

Not sure how to add photos but tank has been up and going with danios for about 3 weeks id say

Photobucket album
Mobile Photobucket


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Looking good there.Just need some babies in there now.


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

Long time coming update thanks to all the advice from you guys I went tangs and got a colony of tropheus duboisi going for about 2 years. Bought 21 babies from a member and have had no casualties that I know of, too fast to count if one did die it was eaten fast. In running two Rena xp3 on the 90
Gallon tank with a power head. Currently added a fake plant for some decor think it looks good and I raised the temp closer to 80 as I was too low at around 70. Fish themselves are very funny! They follow me everywhere I go as soon as I'm insight. Some male dominance has really been on display as of late as the largest fish spends most of his day chasing other out of his cave.


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

More photos


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

You did well. They look very nice.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

The tank looks good. I see you chose the bowl rock. I bet you spend a lot of time watching your fish. Thanks for sharing!


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

Nice tank!! Tropheus seem like a great colony of fish to try one day. I've heard they're fun to watch. Could you post a video some time?


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

As requested Sidius. Jbyoung I did indeed go to that place you suggest got a good deal I'm a fan of the rocks! Now I'm just thinking of eventually adding more of these silk plants to the tank maybe even get some anubias they won't shred to pieces


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Glad you got some nice fish. Where did you get your dubs?How many of them did you get?


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

I got 21 from a member not sure where he got them from


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

I have many different plants in my tank some the fish leave alone. If you are interested in trying out some live plants I can give y9u some next time I trim. Jungle vals seems to grow the best. Silk plants are nice but nothing beats live plants.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

Justin what plants are you growing and do you dose or anything? I have giant vals, java fern, an anubia, and two crypts and most things are not looking good and im also dosing once a week some flourish


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

Looks awesome! It's insane how fast they're moving all the time lol.. Does that ever slow down or stop? Looks like a fun tank.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Steve said:


> Justin what plants are you growing and do you dose or anything? I have giant vals, java fern, an anubia, and two crypts and most things are not looking good and im also dosing once a week some flourish


Im growing. Anubias, Jungle Vals, Amazon sword, Random sword?? Crypts, Java fern, Hygrophila corymbosa var. 'Angustifolia', I think that's it. Ive tried lots of different plants. I use Seachem flourish and Trace. The plants grew fine without the Trace. I have a 3 bulb odysea fixture. I run 1x 6400k, 1x 10,00k and 1 actinic bulb. I also put Seachem root tabs every couple months. My substrate is Caribsea African mix  Lights are on for 9hrs a day. Ive recently noticed my tank gets direct sunlight for a few hours as the sun sets through my back door sky lights. Not sure if this is a good thing or not. We usually have covers but the wife took them down.

How long are your lights on Steve? What light do you have and substrate?


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

Lights on 12 hours a day, it's a beamswork reefbright 72x1w LED fixture with a mixture of 10,000k and actinic bulbs. I just have crushed coral and aragonite sugar sand in the tank. Only the vals and one of the crypts is in the substrate, the other plants are attached to wood or wedged into rocks.


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## Mikey2455 (Jul 19, 2012)

If they see me they go crazy and follow me wherever I go. But if I sit back and watch them they are still quite fast but a lot of them will graze the rocks picking at the algae, the main cave is always under contention so a lot of chasing by the bigger males.


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## bingerz (Mar 3, 2011)

Mikey2455 said:


> As requested Sidius. Jbyoung I did indeed go to that place you suggest got a good deal I'm a fan of the rocks! Now I'm just thinking of eventually adding more of these silk plants to the tank maybe even get some anubias they won't shred to pieces


what kind of rocks are those called. they almost look like mexican bowl rock.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Steve said:


> Lights on 12 hours a day, it's a beamswork reefbright 72x1w LED fixture with a mixture of 10,000k and actinic bulbs. I just have crushed coral and aragonite sugar sand in the tank. Only the vals and one of the crypts is in the substrate, the other plants are attached to wood or wedged into rocks.


Your light is more for Saltwater than fresh so that might be your issue. You need something with 6300-6700k bulb. I don't think plants grow very well under 10,000k only. It also might not be enough light. I can give you some Hygro if you want to try it. It grows tall and fast. It might work well for you.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Your light is more for Saltwater than fresh so that might be your issue. You need something with 6300-6700k bulb. I don't think plants grow very well under 10,000k only. It also might not be enough light. I can give you some Hygro if you want to try it. It grows tall and fast. It might work well for you.


Most people on google state that 10k grows just as well as 6.7k for plants so im not sure if its that?


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

I would try the root tabs that Justin mentioned for your plants that are in the substrate. They worked well for me when I used them. Also, make sure your fish are well fed, so they don't eat the plants. Another thing, if you're doing frequent large water changes, could you be depleting all the nitrates in your water and taking away nutrients that the plants need? I'm no expert and I've learned most of what I know from Justin and reading around on plantedtank.net or barrreport.com


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

Hmm.. I do a 50% waterchange once a week but add flourish right after I do the water change but nitrates could be a problem. What are root tabs? And what brand do you suggest?


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Steve said:


> Most people on google state that 10k grows just as well as 6.7k for plants so im not sure if its that?


Most people with nice Planted tanks are using 6400-6700k bulbs. They may use a 10,00k or 2 but the majority are 63-6700k. Look on aquascaping 2012 AGA Aquascaping Contest Most people list there lighting. Fair enough people say 10,000k grow just as well but 6400k best mimics the sun and the color your plants need. 10,000 k is not ideal for plants. Look at all the new Led fixtures. The planted versions have 6300-6700k LED. That's not a coincidence.

Marineland Aquatic Plant LED Lighting System (36 - 48 Inch) Plant version
Kessil A150W-E Amazon Sun LED Pendant

Here is Kessils sky Blue 10,000k. Kessil A150W Sky Blue LED Pendant

Heres out this Article. http://www.myaquariumclub.com/the-very-basics-of-light-in-planted-freshwater-aquariums-397.html

Check the color temperature on your bulb. Ideal, especially for freshwater planted tanks, is 6400K-6700K, as that is the spectrum of light that plants use for photosynthesis. As the color temperature decreases, especially below 5000K, the light becomes less useful to the plants. "Soft White" bulbs, usually around 2700K, might not even be used at all. Plants might use light up to 10,000K, or actinic, but this light is more useful in saltwater tanks for the growing of corals.

The root tabs are made by seachem. J&L sells them for the cheapest. 
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=sc-flot040


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