# Starting Reef tank



## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

Hi,

I wanted to transition my 45 gallon bow front from fresh to saltwater and could use some advise on purchasing live rocks and water top off. I am planning on getting the 40 lbs Caribsea Oolite live sand to go with this and will cycle these for approx 4 weeks or so. I have 2 options that I am thinking of: 

1. Purchase 10 lbs from store at approx $7-$10 per pound plus the Caribsea SouthSea Base rock (40lbs)
2. Purchase the 45 lbs live rock from an ad I saw (one was 2.50/lb and the other $3/lb)

Also, instead of forking out the money right away for an Ro/Di unit, I am planning on buying 45 gallons ro/di salwaterjust for the cycling. Is there an alternative I can use to top off the water during cycling?

Thanks


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## gmann (Mar 26, 2013)

I would up the amount of LR if you did option 1. My cycle with LR and Macro rock took forever. Also those instant cycle things suck based on experience. so what im trying to say is do option 2. its cheaper and cycle will be faster


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

You Dont need an ro unit if your in Burnaby unless your woried aboutgroath rates and colorarion rock is difficult I would never buy online unless I knew the person persoaly due to risk of pests or the rock was used with coper ect if you need any help with salt water I'm.more then happy to help 6048037902


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## Dietmar (Dec 15, 2011)

If you look around, sometimes people do not want to use "old " sand. So they give it away. If you thoroughly clean it, there won't be any trouble with it. Just over clean it! lol
Here is a link to cured LR and your cycle will be faster and cheaper You will need sand.
FS: Live and Dry Rock GVRD - Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board


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## albert_dao (May 28, 2012)

You don't need that much rock


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks for the all the input! I decided to go with just LR approx 20 lbs and will be picking this up on Sunday (x fingers no bad hitchhickers ) . I do not have a big container for mixing the saltwater so I just used the tank instead, running a Jaebo wp25 and an aquaclear with no media or filters(bare). The only thing about using my tank to mix the salt and water is when I put my live sand and rocks, but I surmised that I will be moving them later on anyways . I will try and post pics of the tank later on. 

@scott tang - thanks for the advise


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

No worries Mabie think about bio cem stars or some thing j
In the hob ?


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## Dietmar (Dec 15, 2011)

once the tank is established, you could always use a 20 litre pail for mixing salt water.
Any pail that was used for food is ok


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

Some pics of tank and this weird purple hair on live rock. Anybody knows what this is? I thought it was coralline. 















Ammonia and Nitrite are 0. Nitrate was 20ppm, did a small wc and went down to 10 ppm. Should I wait for the diatoms to lower the nitrate or can I add 2 clownfish to feed the tank with some ammonia?


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

not coral line go to jl buy some blue leg hermits and dont feed them at all they will eat algea hold off on clowns till they take care of the algea


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## Dietmar (Dec 15, 2011)

You don't have any coral on that LR with the algae yet. So next water change, take that rock out and clean it in the old water with a brush, toothbrush is ok. 
That won't cure anything, but you will be doing some nutrient export. 
I would not add any ammonia, as your nitrates are at 10 now, so the bacteria is working to change your ammonia to nitrates.
Probably had some die off in the LR, so the process is working.


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

Got 5 blue hermits and they are munching away at the algae. I had to put them on the rock. They are doing this slow though, a couple of big ones likes to stay where there are no purple hair algae but I can see that they are pulling out stuff with their small pincers.

This morning I tested the water and the nitrate was still at 10 ppm, but tonight it went down to almost 5ppm. I will retest tomorrow to confirm. I am also getting diatoms on the base rocks , not much, but you can see part of what used to be bone white is turning brown. 

@Dietmar - Thanks, I will do that next water change.

I will post some pics soon. I do have this very small starfish like thing that likes to stick on the tank glass, maybe somebody can ID this when I have the pic up.


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

Ten bucks it is an Asterina Star


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

Hey Momobobo, you might be right, after doing some research on the net, their pics are spot on. Now to determine if this is a keeper or not as some say that they eat corals and might overrun the tank. So far I only see 1 sticking at the front of the tank glass. 

Also, I am contemplating on using my canister filter as a chemical filtration only since I noticed that my aqua clear 50 is spewing out micro bubbles while the wp25 spreads this out in the tank. Any of you have a concern/opinions on this?


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

thoes kinds of starts can be good or bad most dont eat corals but there to the point in my tank where i take thm out becuse they look bad ! 

canister filters are bad news for salt water there nitrate factories for sure stick with a hob or a sump or the best would be a hob refuguim


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

The star suddenly disappeared, could not find him anymore. The diatoms covered all of the base rock including the rock that I dipped in hot water to get rid of that pesky crab I told you guys about. I did a research on him before I got rid of him and he eats small inverts and corals, so he had to go. The clean up crew is still going at it at the purple rock, I will wait to do a cleanup of the rock until the hermits are not interested anymore since majority of the blue hermits hang around it. I also saw a small like insect inside one of the holes in the rock at night when I was using my flashlight, kinda creepy, like in the movie "Aliens". I decided to add some more CUC, so now I have a total of 10 blue hermits, 1 red hermit, 4 snails. Also, I decided to put some fish into the tank (2 clowns and a blue tang). The tang will need to go back to the store once it reaches a certain size as they are not suited for my tank's size. So far the fishes and the water parameters looks good. 0 Ammonia and Nitrites and Nitrates hovering around 5-10 ppm. Salinity is spot on at 1.025. My plan is to introduce corals once the Nitrates starts falling below 5 ppm. Any advise on what's best to feed the fishes? So far the clowns like the New Life spectrum I got from before, the tang likes to hide in the rocks and in between them and would come out every now and then, but still gets jumpy and goes back to the rocks. I was thinking of buying some frozen mysis shrimp for them, any other food I can give these guys?


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## Dietmar (Dec 15, 2011)

You will need to find some empty shells for the hermits. As they grow, they need bigger homes and will fight for any available shell especially if it has a snail in it.


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

The LFS provided me with some shells. My daughter was the first one to see one of the crabs transfer. It actually tried out one shell then came back to the original shell and then found another, it was entertaining to see, free "Discovery channel" hehe. Most of the blue hermit were after the red hermit's shell so the poor guy kept hiding and running away, though he was bigger. Also, first time I dumped the red hermit into the tank I thought he was dead since he was not moving, when I picked up the shell, his entire body came out  and seems dead, later on I realized he was still inside and that he just molted .


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

Update:

The rock has been cleared of those purple hair algae by both the snails and hermits (Thanks Scott). Tank doing well. I ran rowaphos to get the phosphate down and after 1 day running Phosphate was at 0 (damn nice Burnaby water ). Nitrates still hovering between 5 and 10 ppm. Clowns and Tang doing well.

2 nights ago and last night I heard a clicking sound in the tank (like somebody cutting nails). I saw a long bristleworm coming out of the rock that had the purple algae, not sure if this was a fireworm, then from the end of the tank a small crab appeared (dang), he was too fast for me to id. I have red lights that I use for my mobile dj pointed at the tank tonight and will try to see and possibly capture the crab or whatever is making that clicking noise (afraid might be pistol or manits  ). I will upload pics later.


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## Dietmar (Dec 15, 2011)

Here is a worm guide
Worm Hitch Hikers
Scroll down till the Amphinomidae
First one is fireworm
Last one in that class is Eurythoe complanata, common bristleworm. Mine are like 3 colours, in three sections. Harmless unless they get too big. Then they are ugly!
Even then some people keep them. Your call. Great scavengers


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

you probly have a pistol or mantis shrimp look into them


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## scherzo (Apr 24, 2010)

Good that you're testing the water . I would caution you though, even though your Nitrates drop even if you wait 24 hours and test again (and they are low again) doesn't mean they'll stay low.

Your tank is only about 4 weeks old. Things will fluctuate for some time. When you're feeding the fish make sure that not much is wasted. - keep the tank stable.

One thing I really really learned over the years of doing salt, is to go slow, very slow. 

If I was setting up a new tank - I would either cook the rock for at least a month - or run the tank with the LR fishless for a month. Then maybe adding 1 or 2 small fish (especially with a small tank link a 46)

Have fun and be patient.


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

I setup the reverse bottle trap tonight in the hopes of catching the one that is making the clipping noise, as well as the crab or the bristleworm. I looked at youtube to have an idea on how they sound and the more it leads me to believe this is a mantis, but I do not see any cracked shells on the sand bed . I had to remove my cleaner shrimp as he was being caught in the trap. 

@Dietamar- the one on the leftmost side does resemble the worm I saw. I am still tossing between keeping it or not, I measure the worm to be approx 4-6 inches.
@Scott - was hoping it was the crab, but it was too small to make such noise. 
@scherzo - I like testing the water parameters everyday, I learned this from the FW tank I have. I also do weekly wc on the FW, same with the SW.

I am almost at a point of restarting due to the pests I have in the tank. I should have gone with the base rock and 1 clean, cured LR, and just waited this out.


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## indreamx (Dec 5, 2013)

im starting as well!


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

Hey, some people pay $$$ for mantis shrimp, so not all is lost


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

Find out what.rock the mantis is in IL buy him lol


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

I have not heard the sound this week but I still tried the water bottle trap. After a couple of days trying to lure the crab and pistol/mantis into a bottle trap, nothing. Only my cleaner shrimp keeps getting trapped. I did the unthinkable and took out the older rocks and dipped them in club soda, only a few pods came out, not sure if one of them is a mantis as it was really small, almost the size of a pod, but it was green and had front clubs. It did not survive the dip. The rock still smelled fresh so I decided to put this in a 10 gallon tank with treated water and salt, placed one small powerhead and heater to try and have the good stuff recover. After re-aquascaping and adding 4 more pieces of base rock to the tank to try and seed this I saw the small crab come out of the hole from one of the seeded base rock, like it was telling me "nyah nyah You did'nt get me!" LOL. So I quickly took that rock and dipped this in treated fresh water, nothing came out, re- aquascapped again and said f*** it, I'm not moving anything anymore!. All these actions I did caused my tank to have a very small mini-cycle, No ammonia though, just around less than .25 ppm nitrite, but the nitrate went up to 20 ppm. All fishes, and inverts looks ok. I am now doing a small wc just to lower down the nitrate and hopefully the nitrite.


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## Plumberboy (Jun 2, 2014)

And this is part of the reason i am a freshwater guy! I'm loving this thread. Man versus fish, crab, worms, and shrimp! Keep up the battle, and the postings. And pics of the finished tank too. Good luck.


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## H2Onewbie (Jun 25, 2014)

Hahaha! So true, never had this much stress when I was doing my FW tank, although I did restart my first FW tank 3x, totally ignored the cycle, plus I only had the HOB filter vs an overstocked tank. 
So I did about 15 to 20% WC and nitrites stayed at approx .25 ppm, nitrate went down to approx 10 ppm. Put in a bit of Stability and will see what happens.

The thing that got me interested in SW are the colour of the fishes and corals, plus the interaction of the species. You would think that a cleaner shrimp is "Mr. Nice guy" in a tank? Think again! I saw him catch one of my blue hermit as it was trying to look for a new shell, I guess the fella was trapped somewhere and made a run for it, heard a crunch when he was caught by the cleaner.

Here are some pic just before I removed all the LR I bought from the store. It was kinda weird seeing the 3 fishes act like they are schooling, always together, reminds me of "Finding Nemo". My red hermit has some attitude in this pic "Bring on Godzilla!" . Pic of LR now clean of purple hair algae, this used to house that long bristle worm.


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