# 77 Planted Community JOURNAL - NEW PICS 12/28



## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Hey guys. I hope that there's a few of you out there that can relate to me on this one. Sorry for the wall of text to follow, but this journal requires some explanation.

First off let me start with some back story:
I had been keeping a successful community tank for years in a 55G and decided that I would like to get into plants. I researched and learned as much as i could (with all of your help of course) and started out on taking an already established tank, and turning it into a planted haven and I was quite successful with this using Flourish root tabs and EI dosing. I started a journal to document the growth as i learned and got a little higher tech - CHECK IT OUT HERE 

Well like I'm sure many of you did, after seeing how successful one tank could be I saw a great deal on craigslist and bought a second tank. I figured I'd learned enough about plants with my 55 gal that i could make an even better tank if i started from scratch. I spent a ton of cash on flourite black substrate and a new canister filter as well as a second Hagen GLO light fixture + bulbs (all at IPU by the way....oh yeah i got some points racked up there). I started with a couple store bought plants and a bunch of trimmings from a friend and at first everything was going smooth....

Then guess what happened?

I got lazy. Ya that's it. All the money I had spent was completely wasted because I got lazy. The new 46 gallon tank crashed and I lost 3 fish to suicide leaps of faith (i didn't research the killifish before i put them in a topless tank) I neglected my filters and i just didn't put any effort into maintaining either tank. I believe that the fact that my 55 gallon had been established and running healthily for quite some time kept it from crashing as bad as the newly set up tank, even though it was fully cycled and everything. But really i have no idea how the plants survived without a source of CO2 (besides the fish) or a source of nutrients (just root tabs?).

So now i have completely re cycled and cleaned the 46 gallon and have started on an African Cichlid Rockscaped tank. JOURNAL HERE

This journal will document the Road to Recovery of my 55 Planted Community tank.

In all of my neglect (i always fed them of course) I have only lost one fish from this tank, my German Ram *wipe a tear from my eye*. The tank is not in the worst shape imaginable, but the plants are not doing great. At the time of this writing I am 3 days into my recovery project.

Oh and the time-frame for my laziness is approximately 2-3 months of neglect.

My PH is 7.2 That is the only water parameter i can provide because i don't have testers for anything else (i will be getting a Kh/Gh tester for the cichlid tank pretty soon) 
I am running a single marineland C220 canister filter and have completely cleaned it (dosed the tank with "stability" when i did so) and i have had no negative signs from the fish since that was done so i am sure my ammonia and nitrate levels are OK.

Community fish for the most part (as many of you know) are quite tolerant of changing water conditions but the plants are brutal. They require such tightly regulated levels of chemicals i can't even pronounce to thrive. They require weekly 50% water changes to maintain those levels. 
My dosages (identical to the EI sticky in the planted section) 
1/2 tsp KNO3 3x a week 
1/8 tsp KH2PO4 3x a week
1/8 tsp K2SO4 3x a week
(all three go in on the same days Mon. Wed. Fri.)
1/8 tsp traces 3x a week 
(Tues. Thurs. Sat.)
I also dose 6cc's of Metricide daily 
Sunday is water change day

Here are some pictures of the plant life in my tank as of today. I will update this weekly to show the progress and response of the plant life.

























Its amazing how fast the plants react to nutrients being introduced back into the water

















































I will spend some time this week trimming back the dead leaves (especially off of the swords) and i will try and take a lot of pictures as this tank recovers.

Thanks for reading! Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

Well done for taking good care of this tank again. Your plants and fish will definitely reward you for this. 

Is it a tiger barb in the last pic? One of my favourite fish, although I'm not keeping any at the moment.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

It's only been 4 days since I started this journal, but I am already seeing a noticeable difference in the plants. With strong lighting and a source of nutrients and CO2, the plant live is just taking off! I will be upgrading this tank on the weekend up to a 77Gal. but just wanted to show how fast some of these plants will grow when provided with the right conditions. For all you guys who have never done planted tanks before, It's intimidating and confusing at first, trying to understand what the plants require, but after you've got yourself organized, growing plants is no different than maintaining a healthy PH level for your fish, albeit with a couple extra steps.

Already a few more leaves are popping up from the gravel








In a battle for sunlight, this Ambulia (i think that's what it is) has forced itself under the log 
















Very quickly the tips of these Ambulia just keep sprouting up and up
















Dont know the name of this one, but you can see the new growth and strong colour on the upper leaves









Like I said earlier, this tank will be moving into a larger one this weekend and i will be starting a new journal when that happens. 
Thanks for looking!

If any of you can help ID these plants I'd appreciate it.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

So my recovery project took an unexpected turn this weekend when I purchased a new (used) 77 Gallon tank.

I tore down the 55 on saturday morning and went to pick up my new tank. It came with a great stand and an Eheim 2028 canister filter. Before i go on i just must say that i love this new filter, the spray bar is such a better outlet than my marine land canisters that only have single nozzle, and it was extremely easy to prim and start.

Ok on with the tank swap, i originally wanted to set up a video camera and make a time-lapse video of the entire tear down, but I never ended up doing it. I'm sure you've all torn down your tanks a few times and know what is involved. As it turns out, my girl is an amazing fish catcher! I was having a heck of a time trying to net both my ****** loaches and my SAE but she got everything into buckets in no time. 








After cleaning the new tank and stand I put in about half of the eco-complete that i was sold, and began the aquascape.

Remember to always use the correct tools, a frying pan, a pot and a dust pan work great for moving gravel lol 








I wanted to take pictures at every step of this set up, but you know how it is once you start working, it's done before you know it
























Just added some vals to the rear of the tank.. they should grow in and spread in no time
















I just picked this one up today, but can't remember the name of it, if you can i.d. the plant below, please post or pm me


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

Your mystery plant appears to be an Aponogeton species (probably Aponogeton ulvaceus).

Best Regards,

Stuart


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

thanks for the I.D. CRS fan


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

It actually appears to be more like Aponogeton crispus !

Best Regards,

Stuart


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

I have a quick update to show you guys. I went out on Saturday and picked up a copule more vals, and some grassy plant to fill in the front

I also grabbed 3 clown loaches


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

Hello Mike.

Just make sure you don't dose Metricide with your vals. It will cause Vallisneria species to melt . Other safer (and similar looking) species include Sagittarias and Echinodorus vesuvius.

Best Regards,

Stuart


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

wow Stuart thank you for the heads up. I've never heard that there was plant species which do not like metricide. Unfortunately that is my only source of carbon in the tank right now. I will be looking into pressurized pretty soon, but for now all i have is the metricide. Does excel have the same effect with the vals or is it just because of the higher concentration of glut in metricide that makes it damaging? 

I suppose i'm just going to have to hope for the best with the vals and just keep the rest of the plants happy.


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## jay_leask (Apr 22, 2010)

nice looking little saddle back loach


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## jay_leask (Apr 22, 2010)

i like odd ball clowns loaches, i have a couple of them with the saddle back markings.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks Jay, ya I love the look of these guys. Here's a few more shots of the inhabitants of this tank.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

I really have to get an SLR camera, but the iPhone works for now!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Heres a quick update after adding a couple more plants and my first fancy pleco. I purchased a King Tiger Pleco (i believe is L066). And also got some red lotus plant. 
















































If anyone can confirm that this is an L066 that would be great.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

Are they breeding? O.O!!!

(Nevermind, saw your other post...)


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Here are some new pics i've taken today... So many of the plants are just growing great! The new additions i've received from Stuart and neoh are doing fine and this Red Tiger Lotus i got from IPU has absolutely exploded!! 
































































Thanks for looking


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Your tank looks great Mike & WOW I guess the tiger lotus definitely exploded lol Wish my leaves made it to the top like that, Then again probably better they don't since they block alot of light off & my plants need all the light they can get lol Though they look great floating, I have read that if you want to keep the leaves from reaching the top , you can keep trimming them at a certain height and they will eventually start growing to that height as you basically train the plant to think the trimmed height it where the surface is. Anyway, great job with the tank


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks John,
Ya i've seen some pics of them as a foreground plant with smaller leaves but i really like the surface clutter the way it has grown in! I guess only time will tell the ramifications of less light to the rest of the tank, everything in there except the vals and the aponageton are doing fantastic. i think they both react negatively to the metricide. I was talking to Rick at IPU and he had some trouble with his aponageton crispus using excel so i'm pretty sure that's the issue.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Well I`ve decided to tone down a little aggression from this tank. I have removed and traded in my rainbow shark and all 4 tiger barbs. They are beautiful fish, but just a little too aggressive for me in this community tank. 
I`ve also decided to removed the Limnophila because it just was too easy to grow and completely dominated the tank! So after a trim and removing some of the surface clutter as well as re-arranging the drift wood here are some new pics. 

































The current stock list is: 
3 Angels
15 Zebra Danios
4 Gold Barbs
3 Rose Barbs
3 SAE
3 Clown Loaches
6 Ottos
1 Crown-Tail Betta
2 Giant Khulie loaches
1 L066 King Tiger Pleco
+ all the plants!

Thanks for looking!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I missed this thread until now. That's a Tiger Panaque, or Panaque changae(L226). It's primarily a wood grazer. Nice job with the floating plants to cut back the light a bit.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

IT is a L226 not a L66.


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## bingerz (Mar 3, 2011)

nice tank!!! you should get a little frog to sit on them lilly pads!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

ok guys thanks for the id... not the first time i had a LFS give me the wrong id! 

oh man i would love to have a frog or 2 in there!


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Trimmed down the jungle a bit i see Kinda like all those floating plants you had growing in another post you put up.I bet the angels are happy now that some of those guys are gone(shark/barbs).


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Ya i had to give the bottom plants a little more light for them to be happy...that surface stuff grows like crazy though.... you can have some if you'd like! It's pretty sweet


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Thanks, thats very generous of you.Might take you up on that in the near future,have a project in the works.Those Hagen T5 units are awsome,used them myself and got great results.My discus had other things to say about the brightness, and i sold the unit.Keep the updates coming!



monkE said:


> Ya i had to give the bottom plants a little more light for them to be happy...that surface stuff grows like crazy though.... you can have some if you'd like! It's pretty sweet


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)




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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

cool just found out how to upload pics right from the tapatalk app


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Ok i took some time today thinking about my surface plant problem and i finally came to a solution. I like them, I don't want to get rid of them so i decided to rescape my tank slightly to give a couple plants some more light. I will keep my spray bar as it is forcing all the surface plants to the right side and I will only keep some of the lesser light plants like my java fern over there. So far so good. I moved the pogostemon and the ludwigia (i think that's what it is anyway) over to the right. I also added wisteria to fill in that left side. I'm hoping to grow it all in and have complete jungle on the left, vals thicken up in the middle and just the stems from the lotus on the right side.... we'll see in a little while how it all comes together as it grows. I am also planning on shortly getting a pressurized co2 finally because the vals just don't like metricide...i've had to cut my dosage down quite a bit and that has slowed the growth of the rest of the tank i think. 
Here's a 3 min vid and some pictures i took today after moving some stuff around.







































































































Ok this is cool, i found the betta today actually resting on top of the lotus leaf! 









Thanks for looking!


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## noisetherapy (Jul 25, 2011)

lookin good!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Well the day has finally arrived. I have purchased my first CO2 system. I decided to go new on this although i know you could get cheaper from private sales. I've got a 5lb tank, milwaukee reg (with solenoid and needle valve) and a fluval ceramic diffuser


























So here is the today shot of the tank and I'll post more pics as I see the growth improving. I'm looking forward to seeing those Vals blow up in the back as they have not reacted too well to the metricide i used to dose (although they are still alive).










I have also decided to remove all that duck weed from the surface of the tank. I love the look of it but it truly was more hassel than it was worth. I'm going to keep the red lotus going strong and some other surface plant which i don't know the name and see about growing some carpeting plants across the front.










Thanks for looking!


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## PaulCheung (Apr 18, 2011)

Are you sure the small ceramic diffuser is able to inject enough CO2 for you thank?


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## tang daddy (Apr 21, 2010)

Nice co2 tank, now you're gonna see some insane growth out of your plants!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

PaulCheung said:


> Are you sure the small ceramic diffuser is able to inject enough CO2 for you thank?


I hope so... I guess time will tell, I didn't want to "T" it into my filter intake because i have heard that it would create a very acidic environment which would be real bad for the bacteria so this seemed to be the only option

The ceramic diffuser is quite nice because of how small the bubbles come out. They completely dissolve out before they reach the surface so there is very little waste


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The only way to tell is with a drop checker. But the amount of CO2 used is dependent on a number of factors which update and loss:

1. Amount of surface agitation.
2. Lighting level and period.
3. Plant mass.
4. Height of tank, etc.

The problem with a drop checker is that it take a while to equilibrate, so you're looking in the past, so to speak.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

The Milwaukee reg that i purchased had the drop checker and solenoid built in. I'm currently at 1 DPS. 
It's a 77 gal tank with Hagen GLO HO T5x2 light (not sure the WPG) 
4 hours on, 4 hours off, 5 hours on (connected solenoid to the same timer) 

the tank is probably 2 feet tall and the diffuser is right at the bottom. 
I've turned my spray bar to face down so their is almost no surface agitation. 

What do you mean by plant mass???


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think you mean bubble counter, not drop checker. One of these:

Green Leaf Drop Checker | Green Leaf Aquariums

Plant mass = total amount of plants. As your plants grow, they will require more and more nutrients (which includes Co2).

As they consume CO2, a previously green dropper may start to appear more and more blue because the CO2 concentration is lowered through uptake.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I think you mean bubble counter, not drop checker. One of these:
> 
> Green Leaf Drop Checker | Green Leaf Aquariums
> 
> ...


Oh yeah i totally misunderstood that one...i'll have to look into where to get that drop checker. Thank you for the link.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Drop Checker - Aquarium Glass Carbon Dioxide Reactor | eBay

This is the one I have. I'm sure some people locally sell them. Maybe PM Pat (Mykiss) or Frank.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks for the link Wheelz!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Here's a quick update of the progress that these plants have shown already


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Tank looks great Mike. CO2 is definitely the way to go!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks John, Im loving the growth that i'm getting out of the plants now, it actually looks like the small guys at the front are starting to spread and possibly carpet the front of the tank. I've had them for quite some time, they never died, but they never really grew, now they are starting to pop up little plantlets all around


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Weekly update! - 3 weeks on CO2

I've changed the scape up a little this week by adding a pile of polished stone around the base of a large piece of driftwood. I've also added more stone around the entire tank to make a sort of natural look and not have it all concentrated in one place. I'm still on the fence whether i really like the look of it or not but it's int here for now!

The plants have really taken off now, as expected but i have had an outbreak of a new type of algae i haven't seen before. Is it hair algae or black beard i don't know. Please check out a few of the following pictures and let me know how to get rid of this stuff. I guess its a matter of proper dosage of CO2 and fertz but I just cant' figure it out.

Here's some new pics!

First off I got a really cool pic of my royal pleco clowning around with a couple clowns on a piece of driftwood









Here's a full tank shot - before i started some renovating









A couple shots of my surface growth situation - i'm trying to keep it all manageable

















Ok here's some plant shots - take note of the algae growth 

























































And now an after shot of the new look

















As always thanks for looking!


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## FishFreaks (May 15, 2011)

very nice new scape....love the driftwood thats sort of hidden


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

You have both green thread algae and bba. Since you have vals, you can choose to hack the leaves off that have it, or spot dose with Excel. Either way, you'll have to lose some leaves. The problem wouldn't be ferts. With algae, it's almost always CO2. Do you have a way of checking the CO2 levels? Maybe I missed it, but what is your bubble rate, diffusion, and how many hours of lighting are you putting on there? I assume you have 108 w of T5 HO on this thing?


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## PaulCheung (Apr 18, 2011)

I am still not sure the small diffuser will be able the handle your 77g tank. I would go for a better diffuser. A small investment comparing the whole CO2 setup.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

PaulCheung said:


> I am still not sure the small diffuser will be able the handle your 77g tank. I would go for a better diffuser. A small investment comparing the whole CO2 setup.


I can tell you from personal experience that I can make my cichlids gasp in my 125 gallon with a 3/4" inch diameter diffuser. CO2 perfusion, gas exchange and circulation is unique to each setup. You can have a massive diffuser and even a needlewheel setup and still not get enough CO2 if you have enough light and you outgas the CO2 with a HOB.


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

Hello Mike.

A more efficient diffuser would be an inline UpAqua CO2 Atomizer. Canadian Aquatics sells them and I use them on all my set-ups and recommend their use to anyone who can !

Here is a little statement from another forum regarding their effectiveness:

"We also purchased this several weeks ago. With only 1 bubble per sec my CO2 levels are optimal in a 4 foot tank, and I get some pearling.

Just to put it to the test, I have increased it to 3 bubbles per sec (16/22) and after 10 minutes interesting sounds came from within the atomizer, and the aquarium was full of Co2 which created a hazy look.

The bubbles really do resolve well, and in a 4 foot tank I would not set the bubble rate to more than 2/sec.

The unit is neat and it is out of site. Unlike with the glass units that sit inside the tank, this won't ever get BBA growing on it.

I am not sure how to clean it, or if it requires it at all.

EXCELLENT product."

You can clean it by placing into a strong bleach solution and the dechloronating it.

JMHO!

Best regards,

Stuart


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> You have both green thread algae and bba. Since you have vals, you can choose to hack the leaves off that have it, or spot dose with Excel. Either way, you'll have to lose some leaves. The problem wouldn't be ferts. With algae, it's almost always CO2. Do you have a way of checking the CO2 levels? Maybe I missed it, but what is your bubble rate, diffusion, and how many hours of lighting are you putting on there? I assume you have 108 w of T5 HO on this thing?


Ok wheels thanks for the ID... as of yet i do not have any CO2 level tester, i've just got it set to about 1 bps.. if i go much higher than this i see my fish gasping for breath so i've kept it pretty low. I'm using a fluval ceramic diffuser, small but quite effective it seems, almost no bubbles are left by the time they get near the surface. 
My photo-period is 4 hours on, 4 off, then 5 more on in the afternoon. 108w Coralife T5 bulbs i believe the bulbs are 6700k + life glo (or power glo) not sure which i put in there


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

> very nice new scape....love the driftwood thats sort of hidden


Thanks FishFreaks!



> Hello Mike.
> 
> A more efficient diffuser would be an inline UpAqua CO2 Atomizer. Canadian Aquatics sells them and I use them on all my set-ups and recommend their use to anyone who can !
> 
> ...


Thanks Stuart, so do you think that the diffuser would be a big issue? I can pump plenty of CO2 in there, enough to have the fish all rise to the surface gasping for breath... had a real scare the first couple days


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

A quick feeding video from today


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Here's my first update in a while. These new photos are just after a bunch of trimming and some re-planting so the water is pretty murky... the algae issue seemed to sort itself out after raising my bps up a little bit, and removing the affected leaves.

I cut down a bunch of the red lotus leaves and i'll let that grow back in. The main purpose of cutting it is to give some extra light to the java fern and wisteria that i have just planted on the right side of the tank. I got some small plantlets growing off my other java fern and so i just pulled them off and planted a few amongst the rocks... only time will tell how this will look when it's grown in a bit. I also trimmed back the wisteria and planted the trimmings on the right side to fill the back in a bit more, again that will take some time before we see how it looks filled in.

Enjoy the pics! Let me know what you think. 
































notice the new batch of eggs today








a few young java ferns should add a cool effect to the stones when they grow in 








some wisteria in the back


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Your Angelfish sure love you by the looks of things in this setup, and the other one you got going! Congrats seems like you have found some balance between the plants and livestock and everything is growing and settling in nicely! Didnt see any of your plecos come out for a pose,but noticed the zucchini lol !


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Luke78 said:


> Your Angelfish sure love you by the looks of things in this setup, and the other one you got going! Congrats seems like you have found some balance between the plants and livestock and everything is growing and settling in nicely! Didnt see any of your plecos come out for a pose,but noticed the zucchini lol !


Thanks Luke! Yes I think the Angels are quite at home in there  the plecos are all still going strong and they love that zucchini but they always scatter when i get the camera out! it's pretty weird, i get my phone near the glass and they all take off. I'm trying to keep all the plants trimmed about this much but just need to grow in a bit more around the wood on the right side. The problem with it is that the wood is attatched to a large piece of slate and because i added this after the tank was already established, the plate is not buried very deep in the substrate so the plants have a hard time getting any roots down, that's why i've decided to try the java fern over there and see how that goes.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

So i decided to switch my tank up a little bit last night and move a few things around. After shutting down my cichlid tank i had a bunch of extra driftwood around and if there's one thing i like, it's driftwood! lol 
I tore out most of the wisteria and moved a few vals around then i changed the wood work. Finally i moved my spray bar from the left to the right to make the plants lean in the same direction of the wood on the right side of the tank.

Here is a pile of pics i took today


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)




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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks great Mike!


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

Looking really good. Great job with the wood.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Diztrbd1 said:


> Looks great Mike!





crazy72 said:


> Looking really good. Great job with the wood.


thanks guys!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Just picked up some Bolivian Rams from IPU and they look great! Here's some pics


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Nice new additions. These little guys look stunning already. Hope they acclimatize and show their true colours soon.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

jobber604 said:


> Nice new additions. These little guys look stunning already. Hope they acclimatize and show their true colours soon.


thanks man, they actually looked pretty pail at the store and certainly brightened up when they got under my light.

I think they gain a few different hues as they grow also.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

I has a group of Bolivian rams up until recently and I can certainly recommend them. They're a lot of fun to watch.


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

Egads! Look at that pleco poo! :lol: 

Glad to see they're settling into the tank well; that black pigmentation should disappear once they become accustomed to their surroundings.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Haha. I was wondering about those thick logs near the front of the tank. 
Those bolivian rams act behave like geophagus? They sure look like mini-versions of geos.


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

jobber604 said:


> Haha. I was wondering about those thick logs near the front of the tank.
> Those bolivian rams act behave like geophagus? They sure look like mini-versions of geos.


They are bottom dwelling cichlids, and yes, they do sift the substrate for food if it is fine enough (sand/rly fine gravel): they aren't called "Microgeophagus" for nothing


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Egads! Look at that pleco poo! :lol:


I just did a water change yesturday too... i probably should have done a bit more vaccumming!

It's crazy how messy those damn plecos are... i just moved my big sailfin over from my cichlid tank when i shut it down and he's worse than all the rest


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

jobber604 said:


> Haha. I was wondering about those thick logs near the front of the tank.
> Those bolivian rams act behave like geophagus? They sure look like mini-versions of geos.


I've never kept Geo's or Rams before so i'm not sure about their behavoiur, but your right they sure do look like mini-Geos

So far they kinda just hang around in groups at the bottom of the tank, not much exploring or anything


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)




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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

monkE said:


> I've never kept Geo's or Rams before so i'm not sure about their behavoiur, but your right they sure do look like mini-Geos
> 
> So far they kinda just hang around in groups at the bottom of the tank, not much exploring or anything


They are one of the few SA dwarf cichlids species that don't live in low-pH water in the wild. Neutral pH and "regular" (~25) temperature should be ideal conditions for these guys. And they're supposed to be fairly easy to breed, too. (says the guy who kept a group of them for over a year in the hope of breeding them, with no success whatsoever ).


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## Chappy (Apr 21, 2010)

crazy72 said:


> They are one of the few SA dwarf cichlids species that don't live in low-pH water in the wild. Neutral pH and "regular" (~25) temperature should be ideal conditions for these guys. And they're supposed to be fairly easy to breed, too. (says the guy who kept a group of them for over a year in the hope of breeding them, with no success whatsoever ).


Maybe the non-stop spawning of your kribs put them off having their own
I'm really liking how you've set up your tank, Mike. The rocks clusters are really interesting. I might just have to borrow that idea. Great job


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

-N/A- said:


> Maybe the non-stop spawning of your kribs put them off having their own
> I'm really liking how you've set up your tank, Mike. The rocks clusters are really interesting. I might just have to borrow that idea. Great job


Thanks! originally i was trying to cover up the plate under the big driftwood on the right side, but once i spread them out along the whole bottom it came out looking pretty good


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

Well, Rams have the genus _Mikro*geophagus*_ so I always assumed they were somehow related  From what I've seen they do not really exhibit the same behaviour, but Bolivians are totally gorgeous! Such beautiful colours.


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

Momobobo said:


> Well, Rams have the genus _Mikro*geophagus*_ so I always assumed they were somehow related  From what I've seen they do not really exhibit the same behaviour, but Bolivians are totally gorgeous! Such beautiful colours.


Rams (blue and bolivian) do slightly resemble the larger geos, hence the name; they do sift the sand like geos, but not as much and not as extensively. However, I assume that's mainly due to the fact that rams are too small to sift gravel.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Just some new photos I took today. I got some pogostemon from a buddy of mine, but it was sitting in a bucket for 2 days before he got it to me so we'll see if it comes back. Also added a couple pea puffers. Other than that not much to update. The dwarf sag carpet is slowly spreading and hopefully it will completely cover the foreground in the future. Enjoy the new pics!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)




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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Have you ever had fish jump out? Im afraid to go open top.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

cichlid said:


> Have you ever had fish jump out? Im afraid to go open top.


I have had a couple jumpers over the past few years... i've kept open tops for a while now, just a little research to learn who are jumpers and who arent. As of right now, the only fish i'm worried about is the bala sharks. Had them for 4 months or so now and no issues yet so here's hoping!


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

I have an open top 55g with SA fish (angels, apistos, tetras, BNP), and I've not had any fish jump out. It's only been 4 months though, so I'm not sure how things will go long term.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Yea, I guess its hit or mis. My Africans.... Not a chance I would leave it open. My wife wants a community tank, im cool with it, so we are going to do up the 40gallon, and plant it.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

i had a 46 gallon african cichlid tank uncovered for over a year and not a single leap of faith


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

monkE said:


> I have had a couple jumpers over the past few years... i've kept open tops for a while now, just a little research to learn who are jumpers and who arent. As of right now, the only fish i'm worried about is the bala sharks. Had them for 4 months or so now and no issues yet so here's hoping!


I had my 12 inch bala jump out 3 times in one night. Slept though the third jump to find some fish jerky  and he jumped though the gap by the filter.....

Not to sure what happened something must have spooked him. He was in a cichlid tank so its not a huge surprise. I wouldn't worry about your guys nothing in there will scare em!


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