# Another buffering thread



## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Buffer or not? Ph to the right ph and hardness for the species ? 
Best to test the water they were in at the lfs and adjust slowly as alot of fish are raised in neutral in Singapore etc. of course Africans need higher ph. 
Here's a scenario...and I've seen it .
You get tetras from Singapore. Kept in ph 7. They go to a wholesaler...and a guy who likes to set up tanks for the right conditions drops the ph down. 6.5. Fish are stressed from shipping then into soft water. Then onto a petshop. Possibly back up or the petshop adjusts the ph. 
Then..onto the buyers tank. Some newbies who add water,,.not enough wcs..fish aren't happy..then they find upside down fish. Very low ph. Or lots of tds. 
Tetras from wild caught..yes. They are used to lower ph. In the end they accept going up in ph a couple points better than going down. 
Goldfish..7.5 to 7.8 tons of salt. Onto a petshop..no salt possibly. And less ph. Goldfish aren't happy. 
Goldfish buyers..regular water . No buffering. 
What's the answer? Other than post the parameters on the tanks . Do I test my ph. No. But if my water gets crystal clear..all of a sudden..good indication my ph is crashing . 
I buffer all my tanks. What do I use? A handful of aragonite. No ph slides. I've tried it all..
Calcium chloride(ice melter) 
Magnesium. Salt, ro right, equilibrium. Bullseye. Neutral regulator, 
Keep going back to aragonite. It works..my fish are happy and stable, aragonite is easy..
People buy my fish and have success . I use it on my discus tanks . Keeps my bb tanks from ph slides. Fish are calm . If I see them get even one bit skittish ..I know it's time to add a bit.

Anyone with other ideas..educate people to buffer? 
Educate to acclimate and check parameters before adding ? 
Of course it's best to have. Quarantine tank to acclimate..but let's face it. Most don't.

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## Foxtail (Mar 14, 2012)

Ok... I'll bite, how much aragonite per say 10 gallons? I dont really do much in the way of aditives except for seachem when I do my wcs, but I do want my fish to be happy. Theres a pleco, 4 cichlids and I do have some wood in the tank. 36 gal.

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

The palm
Of
My hand. If anyone comes in I'll give them some in a bag
For their tank size. Try it out. I'd
Be interested
To hear if
Good
Results
Or
Bad. 
Other things that make your ph not stay stable
Are filters that can't keep up Irene's rinsing, not enough wcs. 
Water changes are the best way to keep a tank
Clean and nitrates down. 
You do need some hardness to get nitrification. 125
Ppm.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

OK April. I have 150 lbs sugar sized sitting here.

Will put a small bag in each FW tank and do some sci research for you. I don't buffer my water and WC every 2 - 4 weeks, well except for those babies. Not too much problem so far. But then I resist adding livestock once a tank is stable.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

April,
Aragonite will only raise KH very slightly and only when it dissolves. It may have a small effect on GH as well but again very little. I appreciate that you have been keeping fish for a long time but I need to post on this because we are dealing with all levels of hobbyists here and in general. Fish bred in Asia tend to have a hardness of 4-5 degrees dKH and GH. Fish bred in Florida on the average are in 10-12 dKH and GH, very hard. Wild caught fish are kept in usually 2-3 dKH and GH. To summarize the average aquarium fish imported is kept in medium to soft hardness. What we have is 0 and will kill most fish or at the very least break them down. I have yet to have a customer with negative issues after using both Alkaline Buffer and Equilibrium or salt. This is a very important subject and is crucial to the advancement of this hobby in BC. 
We used aragonite in our African Cichlid pods and the pH was around 8 yes, but the hardness was barely 1 dKH and GH as well. There was at least 1000 lbs of Aragonite in there and the result was nowhere near as good as it is now. Sorry to go on but I feel this thread may derail what progress has already been made. The average customer keeps a wide range of tropical fish in their aquarium and by using the above products they can easily adjust to what levels are best for their individual needs.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

I buffer, alkaline+equilibrium+cichlid salt. All #'s stay very very stable.

For me over the last year, I have had some screw ups, everyone does. In no particular order, proper circulation (eliminate dead spots), proper filter biological (avoid mini cycles), and buffering. I wish I would have figured that out sooner...

Having only 1 tank, I am not into picking up the individual components to try and match up with the seachem products. I admire the people that have the time and skills to put it all together, but when I start adding up all of charles fish :bigsmile: and everything else in my tank $50 a year for chemicals to keep everyone happy is cheap and easy.

I have added fish that were not high ph fish. Probably the biggest test was adding 6 clown loaches. They, were a challenge... but all are doing well, and are now my "canary in a coal mine" :bigsmile: as long as they are happy all is good.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Thanks Grant for the crusade  Strongly in support of your effort. I think buffering way is probably the safest for beginners and guranteed that they will not get frustrated quickly. Will send the newbies your way for sure - I had


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

I have always used some type of buffer. What works for some, isn't always the best for others.

Respectfully,

Stuart


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## budahrox (Apr 21, 2010)

*Must*


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

the fact that the need for buffers and water hardeners in our tap water is still up for debate, worries me. unless you are breeding or maintaining softwater species with specific needs, there is no debate at least 90% of the fish in the hobby need at least a slight amount of buffering if only to stabilize pH. lets not even get into planted tanks. 

This all boils down to husbandry. if you do not know what your fish's needs are, then you shouldn't be trying to keep them in sub standard conditions.


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## Nanokid (May 18, 2010)

interesting thread

coming from well water i dont buffer at all, my ph is high at 8.1 out of the tap. my findings is leaving the ph alone is the best... i have bred blue rams at this ph, as well as angels and of course all sorts of cichlids... but the key is stability.

i have tried to mess with the ph to keep it on the low side... all sorts of things. the result was crashes and fluxiations leading to ich and stressed fish.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Too much attention is given to pH and not the real issue which is much needed minerals lacking in our tap water for all fish. Well water is very hard resulting in the higher pH. Most cities outside of BC have that issue and the fish tend to adjust. Harder water is easier to deal with then our ridiculously soft water.


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## Chappy (Apr 21, 2010)

Good to see the deal with the aragonite folks go through, April! How much do you get for every time you mention aragonite in a post, pm, text or smoke signal  Just messin' with you - I actually even agree with you


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I agree on us having 0 hardness or basically ro water.
I was referring more to keeping ph from crashing. 
I also use equilibrium for adding minerals etc. but I do know from years of bb tanks..and discus..I know the aragonite works . If i see any sign of skittishness i throw a handful of arsgonite in the tsnk and thry calm down right away. 
I have a 90 gallon full of live bearers. Big..fat..healthy. No shimmying. Buffering agent? Aragonite. 
What I was also trying to say is the fish need to stay stable from first the breeding farm. Say Asia, then shipped to a wholesaler, then to a petshop, then to the buyers tank. 
Yes getting the gh up to 3 ensures the ph stays stable.
The fact is..most basic hobbyists don't or won't keep it up.
So if buffered up at the wholesaler and petshops..them down when the hit the buyers shop..they will get weak and then you hear stories like every time I get fish from such And such petshop they die. Etc etc.

---
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## neven (May 15, 2010)

getting the KH to 2-3 ensures a stable ph, not gh 

As for me, i used to be into crushed coral/argonite. Then i joined the buffer crusade when i discovered i needed to inject co2 to buffer a tank, and some of my tanks it just wasn't plausible to do that. Once i started buffering, my water has never been more stable, its a breeze to do the same batch without testing the water constantly. Like PH, the number doesn't matter, as long as its ball park and stable. I no longer use as much product as i once had, but things are a breeze to keep stable.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

neven said:


> getting the KH to 2-3 ensures a stable ph, not gh
> 
> As for me, i used to be into crushed coral/argonite. Then i joined the buffer crusade when i discovered i needed to inject co2 to buffer a tank, and some of my tanks it just wasn't plausible to do that. Once i started buffering, my water has never been more stable, its a breeze to do the same batch without testing the water constantly. Like PH, the number doesn't matter, as long as its ball park and stable. I no longer use as much product as i once had, but things are a breeze to keep stable.


Well said Neven,
Another thing to consider here is if you have aragonite in your aquarium and you buffer the hardness, it will be more likely for your pH to rise too high because of the combination. Using aragonite and salt will result in a very low to non existent KH reading and a suitable GH and pH. Not sure why anyone would want to maintain a KH of 0. This is only found in the wild during the rainy season and does not stay this way year round. Additionally the vast majority of fish in the trade are bred and maintained in higher KH conditions. We personally have seen an unbelievable difference in the quality of our livestock by adjusting both these levels. I strongly urge hobbyists in BC to follow the use of both buffering agents. This is not a sales ploy, simply trying to advance the hobby as the tap water issue is the number one issue holding this hobby back here.


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