# Help on Tank



## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Anyone willing to come over and help me out on fish tank?

I'm a starving student so I won't be able to compensate you for your time...
But you can have a few fish from my tank

PM for more details...

Basically its going to be aquascaping and stocking


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Anyone else interested in helping? Its a small 15 gallon


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

seriously, y not try your own. No one knows what you like. Everyone has his/her own liking. If you have an idea of what you like, then do it yourself.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

That's the problem. I dont' have any ideas


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

then how is someone going to try to help you. 

you can contact Biem Lin <- a member here who gets paid for Aquascaping for commerical and private home. I think his rate is somewhere at $50-$60 per hour.

And you can check out his work at KingEd. He has 3 tanks next to the fish packing station.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

again.. Starving student looking more of a fishy mentor than professional work.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

then do a search on ada natural tank to get some idea and do it yourself.


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## shaobo (Apr 21, 2010)

As Charles suggested, it's always great to do a little reserach before hand and figure out what type of setup you really like to have. And online would be your best resource. 

Also a little more detail on this 15 gallons would engage the right people to help you. For example, what will you be keeping, do you want to have a planted tank or just rock/wood scape? What do you already have and what you may need to collect with your budget.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Charles, Comes across as a little bit too blunt sometimes...
You're much nicer
I'm probably looking at some kind of a biotope tank Not too sure. I was hoping to find said person first. and then go from there maybe get his/her suggestions after looking at what I currently have on hand to work with

Its not that I havn't looked at the places he suggested.
But most of them are for larger tanks. And even when it is a 15 gallon aquascape...Most are long instead of bowfront. which severely limits my options


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## tang daddy (Apr 21, 2010)

We want to help you're starving needs, to do so you should help us help you!

As Ed suggested list your equipment you have, then we can go from there. Perhaps instead of asking your parents for gifts this year you could ask for monetary donations, then use that money to spend on substrate plants and wood!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a piece of driftwood but its a bit too big for my tank it taskes up all the space not too cool.
but otherwise i got some decorations
and Aquaball.
that's it really


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a 12 gallon Eclipse (kind of a curved front) and also a 36 gallon bowfront, so I can probably guess at what a 15 gallon bowfront might look like. 

My 12 gallon turned out quite well. I was using natural-looking gravel in those days (though my latest tanks have either black Eco-Complete or black sand) and it had a bit of red in it, which went well with a piece of dark driftwood and a triangular, reddish stone. In front, I have a long, thin curved piece of driftwood, which has small anubias growing along it. (I attached them with glue, but thread should also work).

Between and around the wood and stone, I tucked some Amazon swords and various other plants (CRS-Fan would know their names, especially the reddish one I got from him). I also had hornwort at first but eventually I moved it to another tank as it grew so quickly that it blocked the light.

I have some small anubias that you could have, if you wanted to come and pick them up from my place in Vancouver. I could also give you a large (almost overgrown) Amazon sword for a centerpiece plant. If you can find some Sunset Hygro, that one grows very well in many conditions, I've found, along with some of the hygrophilias and java ferns.

I think it's most fun to just try it by yourself, with a smaller tank like that. Stick things in, then move them around. That's what I've been doing, ever since I joined BCA and moved away from my prior practice of never changing anything about my tanks for 20 years. If something doesn't work, you can just move it around.

I also have lots of water lettuce that you're welcome to, mixed with duckweed unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your view). But both of those grow so quickly that unless you have a lot of light, your tank will grow a bit dim, especially if it's a deep tank rather than a wide one.

I'd be happy to give you some plants to get you started. You can get other nice plants in many places. Patrick carries Aquaflora plants, and probably 2 containers of different plants would be enough for your whole tank. Aquariums West always has large display tanks filled with healthy plants, and there are tanks of plants at IPU in Richmond, too. When you buy them, just ask for the ones that suit the light you have. I have found that many plants will grow beautifully without expensive special lighting, just the standard tube that comes with most aquariums, as long as you pick the right ones. 

There are many substrate options out there but if you're going for a simple, easy-care low-light tank, then you can use anything, even plain gravel. If you're on a budget, you can pick up a bucketful of used gravel from someone on the forum, and sometimes Patrick or Charles have some they can sell inexpensively. Or you can buy it in bulk from some of the aquarium stores, just what you need. It's nice to have a fancy substrate like Eco-Complete or Florabase but I haven't noticed much of a difference for someone of my very basic skill level. Everything just grows like crazy, it seems, as long as there's nothing in the tank eating it. 

CRS_Fan is a good source of information for people who want to do their first planted tank. 

What's an Aquaball?

Why don't you just invite BCAers over for a party and eggnog? You'd probably get lots of information over the nog and fruitcake and have fun at the same time.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Eheim Aquaball
Products


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh! THAT's what those things are! Bill (Aquaman) has one of those, and I was using it when I was looking after his fish. I didn't know what it was.

It's really a very good piece of equipment for a smaller tank (I was using it in his 20 or 25 gallon). It was a small one. It really enhanced the flow of water in the tank. But I would recommend using it with an HOB like an Aquaclear 50 or 70, for a 26 bowfront, if you're not going for an external canister. Bill's was a small one and yours may be bigger, but although the design was outstanding it just didn't hold enough media to be used on its own, I found.

Very cool bit of equipment, though, and silent. You're off to a good start. If yours is a bigger one, you might even get buy with just the Aquaball if you understock your tank. (Not sure, though.)



Edarion said:


> Eheim Aquaball
> Products


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

My tank is a 15 gallon. And its one of the larger aquaballs. 
Current Inhabitants
1 sailfin pleco, 1 BNP, convict cichlid, 1 CAE, 4 guppies, 3 tetras, about 10 guppy fry in a breeding net, 1 austrailian red claw crayfish, and maybe 2 marble crays.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Wow. You serious?


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd trade the sailing plecco and convict in and stick with small fish or schooling fish.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275078,-122.835506


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I wanted some interesting fish that's how i ended up with the arrangement i have now


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

Edarion, you really need to do some research and have some ideas on your own so that when someone is trying to help you , your not just following their interests. Tropical fish keeping is very personal and needs a high degree of input and passion from the keeper. I am no expert - especially in small tanks but I'm sure if you went to the LFS you'd get plenty of good ideas to start your tank. One thing for sure, as stated previously, you need to get rid of the sailfin and the convict. You really have no choice since they will die, after the convict kills everything else in the tank. See if the LFS will take a trade for some small species fish. Lay out what you have and he'll/she'll have suggestions. Tank size, substrate, filtering lighting, heater wattage etc. After you get started working with your tank and local LFS you'll be in a better position to ask specific stocking/aquascaping questions about "your" tank.:bigsmile: Not a tank someone came over and made for you. Scour the internet, go to the library, there is a lot of interesting info out there.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm a hands on learner. I learn best when someone shows me how to do it in real life


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

Oh yeh, I hear you on that one. Me too.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Exactly, i've tried this method... didn't exactly work that's how i end up with the aquatic mess that's in my living room

This is my analogy: 
There are some people that can know next to little about carpentry. Buy a book carpentry and build a beautiful cabinet.
I'm not one of these people. I'd need a physical person there to explain the steps to me.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Edarion said:


> This is my analogy:
> There are some people that can know next to little about carpentry. Buy a book carpentry and build a beautiful cabinet.


Interesting ananlogy, that is how I started carpentry. I did not have someone who has the spare time to show me how to fix things. Nor did I want to pay them to fix them for me. So I read books and do some "hands-on" trial and error. Guess what, 30 years later, I design my own cabinets. Starting on a crystal display cabinet for my wife - hopefully soon.

I am still reading carpentry books and trying new things.

I offer free hands-on yard cleaning class here though :lol: Well, if someone want to learn how to build a stand or canopy - why not


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Gklaw, You are an extremely extremely blessed man,


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

There is a whole world to explore. In your time, a while universe!

Work hard, learn hard and be considerate of others and I know you will be way more blessed young fella


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Edarion,

As mentioned already by a few members,this is not going to work out (bio load is way to much for this size setup/compatibility issues another)No filter will ever keep up.First off, look to rehome some or most of all of this stock.Try a few shops around the lowermainland(sure they wont give you alot,but some store credit is better than nothing) and build from there.Try the forums here as well, always someone here willing to re home some fish.Then proceed with ideas for a new layout.



Edarion said:


> My tank is a 15 gallon. And its one of the larger aquaballs.
> Current Inhabitants
> 1 sailfin pleco, 1 BNP, convict cichlid, 1 CAE, 4 guppies, 3 tetras, about 10 guppy fry in a breeding net, 1 austrailian red claw crayfish, and maybe 2 marble crays.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

But its an aquaball for a 50 gallon tank


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

I also am learning this hobby so take this info for what it's worth. The Eheim website shows three models of aquaball, each having different capacities for flow (Gallons Per Hour GPH) which model is yours? Products

Next, you mention a 50 gal tank, there is debate but if you have a well stocked tank you should in my opinion have around 6 times tank volume filtration, some do 10 in overstocked tanks some do less in tanks with small fish. Also I use the lower end of the flowrates listed on the websites because once you fill it with media and it starts to foul your rate goes way down. So in my opinion any of the aquaballs are way undersized for a 50 gallon.

I have a 50 gal with an eheim 2215 and Emporer 400. That's over filtered but....
An AC110 would be great on that 50 gal but they cost around $100 plus tax. If anyone thinks I'm steering Edarion in the wrong dirrection please comment, as I said I also am fairly new.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

My bad this is the model# 2212390
The one with four compartments. The largest one. 

I have a 15 gallon tho not a 50.


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

Yeh, by your last post I thought you were upsizing. the aquaball would do well in a 15 gal. again I'm not an expert on small tanks but with your filter, you should be able to put on a nice show of some of the smaller tetra's. Your LFS will have choices for you, or check out the forum sponsors for stocking lists. If you want plants it would depend if you go for low light plants around 3-5 watts per gallon or higher for the more demanding plants. If you go for higher wattage you'll need to add CO2 so probably a bit out of the question at the start. Also might be good to get a substrate that has nutrients. (I have no idea what type to get)


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

If I were you, I would trade in that convict cichlid, unless you want to downsize the others, im suprised the other fish havent been eaten. 

Do a google image search " small tropical tanks " as far as help goes, all we can do is offer suggestions, its totally up to you!


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## mcrocker (May 29, 2010)

It sounds like the first thing you need to do is decide what you want to see when you look at your tank every day. A school of bright colored fish? A single fish or few more unique fish with interesting behavior? Planted tank?

To build off of what you have, I would start by getting rid of both plecos, the convict, the SAE, and the crayfish. The plecos will be too much bio load for your small tank.(the BNP could be okay, but plecos all poop alot in my experience) Convicts can be fun fish to watch, but they won't play nicely with the others in your tank. I don't have much experience with crays, but from what I have heard they will be a risk to your smaller fish. The SAE might get aggressive and suck on other fish once it is older, but could be okay initially.

Tetras are always a good choice for a small tank. My LFS sells neon tetras for 10/$9, so for a ~$10 purchase you can add a decent school of nice looking fish. Those would go well with something that hangs out on the bottom, like some cories. A school of tetras and a few cories should only set you back $20-30 total and will be a nice combo to look at, and active too.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Another option, get natural gravel like 6.5mm round rock, also called pea gravel, boil it on the stove before using, get some good sized river rock and build a little cave in the center, use a nice background, in one back corner plant a cabsmba ( 4-5$ ) fish eat it, its good for them. In the other get a sword plant (4$). If you get a 5 school of neons, 2x scissortail rasbora, and 2x black skirt tetras, a cory would be cool too!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

If I could, I actually want to get rid if the Sailfin pleco cause i already have a CAE and a BNP in there... way too many scavengers
And I would like to see a few unique fish with special behaviors instead of like a school of bright fish.
Which i've sort of done before already


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Go T&T and pick up a tilapia


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## fisherman (Apr 22, 2010)

got pics of tank??


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

jobber604 said:


> Go T&T and pick up a tilapia


You are kidding right - so not Ming 

Tilapia for a 15g. May be holding till dinner


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Its a 15 gallon bowfront from petceetera


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Seriously Edarion. Try planted, cheap sand substrate. I have 20lbs off white silica sand unused, FF pick up only. No meet up, don't ask please. 

I can even throw in a few stems of easy plants for you to start off. May be a few other surprises to make it worth the bus ride. I am only 2 minutes walk from major bus route - 169.

Don't worry, no hands-on yard work classes scheduled yet 

When you are this way, I am pretty sure you can get some store credit from Pet Habitat in Coquitlam for the bigger fish for smaller fish and supplies. They are 10 minutes walk from the Coquitlam Centre bus loop.

Planted with a say 10 galaxy rasboras - $40? or 20 neon tetras - $20? Add a couple of blue angels - $30? Couple of gorgeous blue rams from Richard - $30.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Sigh, there's a problem.I have no car and carrying all that back to burnaby is going to be pretty near impossible. As I don't have a handcartoranything


Blue Angelfish?


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

20 lbs left arm, 20 lb or less lbs right arm? I have no problem meeting you twice or more times either. There is another bus from Lougheed Station (152 ?) that stops 3 houses from my door steps.

Sorry life is hard and full of dilemma  Student life 101: every starving student needs a good friend who drives and pay for lunch now and then


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

It sounds to me like your trying to build a big, unique, thriving tank full of life. But you yourself have said you dont have a car, or much money. You need to make a budget. Figure out what you do have to spend. I can say for myself, im going to be doing a 15gal nano saltwater tank in my 15. I know exactly what I want but I have limited money to do it. Figure that out. 

What do you mean by fish with speacial behavors?


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

i meant interesting behaviours. budget =200
takes me 1.5 hours to get to coquitlam... nnot happening.
tilli can find a driver


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## mcrocker (May 29, 2010)

I've always found cichlids interesting, maybe get a few rams that will be okay with smaller fish like tetras? Some people like dwarf puffers, they are pretty unique and could work in a tank that size. It sounds like it's probably not the direction you are heading in, but if you want more convict cichlids I can give you some for free.

Alot of aquarium keepers don't like convicts because of their aggression, but their breeding and parenting behavior is what got me hooked on this hobby. They protect, herd, clean, and even feed their fry, which is all pretty impressive to watch.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Keeping in mind this is a 15 gallon tank. You are limited. 200$ is alot of money for a freshwater setup! 

This tank is too small for cichlids other demasoni, brichardi, firemouth, small angels. But then again 2 of those your full. 

Kissing gourami? Zebra Danios are kool to watch swim. Black skirts will hover in one spot.


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## fisherman (Apr 22, 2010)

u can get dwarf cichlids, any of the apistogramma species stay nice and small and work well with community fish and plants... this is the kind of tank i have and i think i could live with it for the rest of my life, i have gone threw alot of different kinds of tanks and this is the one to go... u can get apistogrammas which has alot of different kinds of species or go with some rams... u probably have low light so buy some substrate, low light plants, dwarf cichlids and ur good to go but of course u needa get rid of the bigger fish in ur tank first though..


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Convicts are too large for my size tank aren't they? don't they get to be quite substancial?


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## fisherman (Apr 22, 2010)

convicts get bigger then the dwarf cichlids, im not sure if convicts can ruin plants.. i think they can since they dig.. either way wouldnt convicts kill the community fishes? probably only when they breed... dwarf cichlids will attack ur other fishes too when in breeding mode, if ur tank is to small and the fish cant run they will get nipped maybe killed..


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## fisherman (Apr 22, 2010)

Edarion said:


> 1 sailfin pleco, 1 BNP, convict cichlid, 1 CAE, 4 guppies, 3 tetras, about 10 guppy fry in a breeding net, 1 austrailian red claw crayfish, and maybe 2 marble crays.


get rid of everything besides the 4 guppies, 3 tetras.. and then u can get a pair of dwarf cichlids, maybe up to 4 of them.. i think 1 male, 3 female is the way to go...


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Any convicts that can fit in a 15 gallon tank that is colorful? The people that I live with hate how my Sailfin Pleco and cichlids look. I'm tired of hearing it. 

Something with color might work. 

Won't I still need some type of bottom feeder to help clean my tank


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## fisherman (Apr 22, 2010)

Cockatoo Dwarf Cichlid - Apistogramma cacatuoides

i would go with this species(since i have them lol)

i can give u a male for free, he kinda got beatin up by the other sneaker male(sneaker male is a male that pretends to be a female but really is a male)so not the prettiest right now but should recover.. not the strongest fish, i got him like this and he seems to be weaker then the apistogrammas i raised from fry.. u would need to get rid of the convict first though cause that would kill it in no time. the sailfin gets big so u needa get rid of that for sure also... u can keep the BNP to eat the algae since that guy only gets about 6inches big or something like that..


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## mcrocker (May 29, 2010)

Convicts won't really work well with most other fish, especially in a 15G. They get to be about 4+" for males and 2-3" for females. I don't think they are considered dwarf cichlids, but they are relatively small. They are not really colorful, just coming in the black/white striped pattern and sometimes a white/pink coloration with no stripes. The females get some color on their bellies, but overall they are not bright colored fish. And yes, they will move/destroy most live plants...


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

@ Cichlid

I'm looking to make a freshwater biome. So the plants and stuff in the tank will mimic what it looks like it nature. So that's why I set the budget up so high. Also told that if I over filter, I'll basically never have to do water changes again. And that's appealing


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## fisherman (Apr 22, 2010)

Edarion said:


> Also told that if I over filter, I'll basically never have to do water changes again.g


lol if this is true ill over filter all my tanks.. pretty sure its not though otherwise everyone would be doing it..


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Maybe contact Richard who breeds beautiful Rams (Balloon & German). They are beautiful, colourful (neon blue), have interesting behaviour, and community fish.

But yeah, first get rid of your non-community fish.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Edarion said:


> Also told that if I over filter, I'll basically never have to do water changes again. And that's appealing


We have this discussion long time ago. In fresh water tank, it is not a complete cycle. Filter will turn waste eventually into nitrate and nothing except plants (lots and lots of them) can take them out from your water. With the amount and type of fish, there is no way you can do that in your 15g. Even if you are adding another eheim in it, you are just speeding up the nitrate production = more water changes to reduce the amount of nitrate in there.

I am not being blunt. I found myself kept repeating advise, the same to you, and you choose not to listen. Even people here trying to help you, but again, you want to take advise of what you like to hear.


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## shaobo (Apr 21, 2010)

Edarion said:


> Also told that if I over filter, I'll basically never have to do water changes again. And that's appealing


 
Like Charles mentioned, this statement is simply very wrong. WC done properly will remove built up pollutants and chemicals released from your livestock, also a good chance to replenish the trace elements. 

You may be able to delay WC frequency depends on your bio load and filtration, but it is vital to keep your aquarium health.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

The information that i said was given to me by another BCA member. That if I overfiltered i'd never have to do water changes more than biyearly


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

Edarion said:


> The information that i said was given to me by another BCA member. That if I overfiltered i'd never have to do water changes more than biyearly


Why even want to take such shortcuts when your fish's health, and ultimately life, is at stake? If you like your tank enough to spend $200 on it, don't you want to also do the little it takes to keep it healthy? A water change on such a small tank would probably take you about 10mns. If you keep fish, I think you owe it to them to be willing to spend 10mns of your time weekly or so to keep them healthy.

Plus they will pay you back for this. Healthy and happy fish are always more colourful and active.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Because, I can be busy at times and tend to forget about weekly WC.
Realistically, at most I might do a WC once a month or so


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

Edarion said:


> Because, I can be busy at times and tend to forget about weekly WC.
> Realistically, at most I might do a WC once a month or so


Do you shower once a month too? . Just kidding, but seriously, this is a matter of priorities. Everyone, however busy, has 10mns of their time weekly for the things they care about.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

takes more than 10 mins cause i gotta avoid sucking up the aquatic plants that float on top


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

what are you using to do water changes? a wet vaccume from canadian tire? that should only take 5 minutes!


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

How big is your tank?


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## Chappy (Apr 21, 2010)

Edarion said:


> _Realistically, at most I might do a WC once a month or so_


WARNING - *VERY BLUNT STATEMENT AHEAD*

If this is the case, then, realistically, you should get yourself a stuffed bunny instead of a living creature that requires attention that you are ultimately responsibly for providing it, regardless of how busy you are.

Are there people who can keep fish in planted tanks with infrequent water changes? Yes. But, and that's a big *BUT*, those people either have a complete understanding of the many factors involved in doing so OR they have horseshoes up their butts. The rest of us accept the fact that keeping fish is a commitment that requires you to actively participate in the care and well being of your fish.

If you're too busy now, maybe hold off having fish until the time comes when you are able to be more hands-on


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Cichlid: I'm using a python


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

for a tank this size you could use a coffee mug to do a water change, all you need to do is 10% tho doing a bit extra may not be a bad thing. all you need to take out is 1.5 gallon. a milk jug!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Really? I do 50% water changes every time.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Small tanks are far more sensitive to nutrient build up than large, heavily planted tanks. My last fully planted tank was probably 65% plants, it was so heavily planted, and I was constantly selling off plants, thus those plants acted as nutrient exporters. The same as with growing macroalgae or chaeto in my sw sump/refugiums. 

If you do a 50% water change monthly instead of 10% weekly, it would probably be ok. 

Personally, in your case, I would get two 5g buckets and use one to get the new water ready and siphon out one bucket of water and refill the same amount.

However, since you have a python (which is overkill for a 15g), you can skip the buckets altogether. A python should make your waterchanges super fast & easy though.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a hard time screwing the python on to my tap actually. Its never 100% tight and the water always leaks. So everthing ends up getting wet not too cool


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Removing too much water can effect the cycle of the tank, at least thats what I have been told. You dont want to remove too much of the good bactiria, just as much of the waste as possible. 

The problem iss with that many fish in smuch a small area, ( considering plecos and that cichlid and pooping machines) your ammonia level could get high by the time you do your next change. Letting them build up, then suddenly removing it, build back up... Could this not add stress on the fish? No fish like huge changes in levels either way! Its like being in a room that fluctuates between wet and super dry, hot and cold, your going to get sick, we humans arent designed for huge changes either. 

I might be wrong here, but one of the reasons you do 4 small changes, is to keep things even.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Then do the 2 bucket system, less water everywhere. One bucket out, one bucket in. Very simple. Just make sure your temp and pH in particular are close to the same. 

The bucket will also let you test the water parameters before adding to the tank. I know, old school, but at least you're not doing sw because I use two 55g barrels to premix saltwater when I'm doing a water change on my sw systems.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

But its easier to make larger water changes with a python. I suppose my reasoning is that if I make larger water changes. I can make them less frequent.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

cichlid said:


> Removing too much water can effect the cycle of the tank, at least thats what I have been told. You dont want to remove too much of the good bactiria, just as much of the waste as possible.
> 
> The problem iss with that many fish in smuch a small area, ( considering plecos and that cichlid and pooping machines) your ammonia level could get high by the time you do your next change. Letting them build up, then suddenly removing it, build back up... Could this not add stress on the fish? No fish like huge changes in levels either way! Its like being in a room that fluctuates between wet and super dry, hot and cold, your going to get sick, we humans arent designed for huge changes either.
> 
> I might be wrong here, but one of the reasons you do 4 small changes, is to keep things even.


If the tank is properly cycled, there should be NO ammonia build up. Just nitrates. And I don't think a sudden drop in nitrates would displease any fish. The risk with very large w/c is more with temperature and water chemistry (pH/GH/KH). But yes, I agree that keeping things stable is important. And small tanks are more subject to wide fluctuations than big tanks.

The amount of w/c you need to do to keep your tank healthy depends on the nitrate build-up, and that depends on your bioload, and whether your tank is planted (heavily) or not, because plants will consume nitrates. But again, I agree with Shelley that if you don't think you have 10mns (ok, 15 if you need to be careful with your plants) weekly for your tank and fish, you should probably reconsider setting it up in the first place.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I keep the temperature the same with the old and new water so that the temperature does not change


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

If you only do water changes 1 time all the waste and crap you want is sitting in your tank rotting, for 29 days. I was told at a LFS if you have too much waste it can create ammonia problems as the crap begins to break down. Ammonia becomes nitrites, too many nitrites= less fish! Im not saying it will happen, Im saying your increasing your chances. Like humans need clean air, fish need clean water.

Nitrites in the Aquarium


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Sorry, the last few posts made me lol literally. Sorry Edarion. You should take seriously the advice of mama Charles and papa Shelley. Now, it is grandpa's turn.

My little Edarion, take one step at a time. There is just no way you can get a 15g (or any g) perfect any time. With FW, there are literally endless bio-types you can set up. So far, I change them around every 6-12 months anyway. It seems like you have lots of ideas already, do something and see how it turns out.

Take your carpentry analogy. Forget the book, you know enough already. Take a few pieces of wood, a hammer and some nails. Try to turn them into something. You may get a few splinters in your hand, hammer your thumb, and damage some wood. That is part of learning and part of the fun. It may not turn out perfect the first few projects but trust me they are satisfying nonetheless. You can almost take it apart and shape them into something else or simply make it better. Please show your creations to mama, papa and grandpa and grandma too wherever she is.

BUT, YOU will have to pick up the hammer and drive the nails home.

When I was a little kid, there was no internet, I have read lots of books. We were so excited when we got our first BW TV. I cannot afford bus and have to take very very very long walks. I remember having to carry buckets of water up the stairs of to the seventh floor so we can cook dinner, hand wash our cloths and shoes, and take baths, no elevator then.

You are so very very blessed to have internet you can see pictures and watch how people do it without leaving your chair 

In this real world, I have two girls, I do not spoon fed them every step. I held their little hands to make circles and make stick men when they could not hold the crayons right. After that I let them use their imaginations. They don't have the talents of great artists but their new creations are always hung on two strings by our front entrance.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Nitrites become Nitrates and Nitrates can be removed with the WC. Nitrates are not as lethal as Nitrites. Big WC takes longer for nitrates to build up to lethal levels.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

cichlid said:


> If you only do water changes 1 time all the waste and crap you want is sitting in your tank rotting, for 29 days. I was told at a LFS if you have too much waste it can create ammonia problems as the crap begins to break down. Ammonia becomes nitrites, too many nitrites= less fish! Im not saying it will happen, Im saying your increasing your chances. Like humans need clean air, fish need clean water.
> 
> Nitrites in the Aquarium


A properly cycled tank has bacteria that turn nitrites into nitrates. There are no nitrites in a mature tank. It actually says this in the link you pasted... 

Nitrogen cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

cichlid said:


> Removing too much water can effect the cycle of the tank, at least thats what I have been told. You dont want to remove too much of the good bactiria, just as much of the waste as possible.


cichlid: bacteria doesn't live in water. They colonize on surface area. So large water changes will not affect your bacteria level as long as water doesn't have chlorine.

I am beginning to think this is more of a troll thread than anything.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

What's a troll thread


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Dear little Edarion, Google the word "troll" - dictionary works too. I did not know what it is. I think I have an idea now.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm not a troll


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Trolls who don't shower or do water changes. 
I just can't help myself.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Must not be me then.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Ming o ming, my stomach is hurting.

Dear little Edarion, never be so sure. 

Stare closely at the troll and look intensely at the reflection in your heart. Our eye may not see that in a fogged up mirror, we all bear some resemblance of a troll in various degree.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Yea, i didnt read the full like. Never really had problems with nitrates or nitrites.... Lol ive done over 10 tanks, and havent been lazy with them, well except for the stupid goldfish who wouldnt die! Lol I bought it cheap had it in my 25g while I was trying to decide what I wanted to do in it, and to help cycle it so i didnt loose any fish I wanted... 3years later he was still living 3x the size ( 6-7" lip to tail ) with a golf ball sized tumor. My father inlaw was feeding our fish while we were in maui... But didnt remember to feed that fish.. Lol! 8 days later.... He lived for like another 4 months.... That fish loved dirty water, he used to dig and eat his poo... Lol


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## Sliver (Apr 19, 2011)

Fake fish tank | toy fish tank | artificial aquarium | fake aquarium light | waterless aquarium | Fish lamp

there, problem solved. no water changes, no feeding, no responsibility, no imagination.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Big problem.... No fish


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

But the fish would die without water! Must we explain this too?


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

It's not "we". "we" are not going to feed the troll anymore.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

That's easy then. Add water ten add fish


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

Sell all the fish stuff you have, buy a couple Lava lamps.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

I'll trade you 2 lava lamps for the tank!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

But Lava Lamps aren't alive


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Sorry, I think we need a new section: "Children Play Zone" along with doodle board and some digital crayons.

This troll is going to practice some more carpentry - staring at the design forever won't make the cabinet perfect :lol:

After that, do some water change and take a shower. No more kiddie talk for me


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Niether is a tank of dead fish. 

Bottom line, we tried to help, some of the guys own fish stores, stores full of tanks and your sweating over a 15 gallon tank. Dude thats a water change for some of there tanks in the stores. Which they do weekly. 

Im in no way an expert, i have learned stuff on this site by listing. In fact im phoning a member soon to talk about salt water, i currenty own 8 aquariums, not once have I dont salt, but the only way Im going to pull off this nano reef is by talking to the guy with a 210gallon tank, he probably knows something! I tangs, triggerfish, hell i'd love a black tip reef shark but none of that is gunna fit in my 15gallon tank! 

You asked how you could do it we gave you the best suggestions we could come up with based on trial and error, im sure every person in this thread could list mistakes! But you need to just do it!


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

One last bit of troll food,

Just my observation from having spent 10 minutes reading through 10 pages of you asking for advice, and then ignoring the help offered from very experienced tropical and salt water fish people. At the same time quoting random advice that does not make sense. Entertaining and frustrating at the same time.

If you can't find the time to properly take care of an animal of any kind, you should not have one.

Yes that is blunt, sorry.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)




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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

mdwflyer said:


> One last bit of troll food,
> 
> Just my observation from having spent 10 minutes reading through 10 pages of you asking for advice, and then ignoring the help offered from very experienced tropical and salt water fish people. At the same time quoting random advice that does not make sense. Entertaining and frustrating at the same time.
> 
> ...


Anyone who skips to page 10 will think we are D¡Cks. We tried...
We should email this to PETA lol


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Mdwflyer, are u running an air pump or anything for circulation in your cichlid tank?


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

What is this random advice that does not make sense?


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

goodbye looser


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Ok, I think this thread has run its course and there is plenty of info on here for the OP to figure out what to do. Since this thread is starting to go downhill, I'll close it before things get out-of-hand.

If you have specific questions about specific issues, feel free to post. 

Anthony


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