# So I have this PH problem; *urgent*



## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

So the Ph in my tank is at about 7.7-7.9 right now and it is way to high :/ It is a cycled tank, no seashells or rocks. Just the plain ordinary gravel from the lfs. My tap water is 7.0 (neutral). I can change HALF of my tank water and the PH just goes all the way back up to 7.7 instantly. These readings are all correct because I use three different Ph test kits. I have plants, and a heater, and a sponge filter.

Can anyone explain whats happening?

update: My cherries all died


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

are you testing you kh/gh out of the tap? Even though you are adding 7.0 water to a 7.8 tank thinking that will dilute the ph is not right. If you alkalinity is not buffered properly then you will be susceptible to ph bounce. My kh/gh is 0 from the tap, since I have had made the necessary adjustments with the water being added, I have had far less problems with ph creeping up. Just my experience here

also if your using crushed coral, I find it causes that as well


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

So if I increase my kh/gh, the ph will go down again?

I am not using crushed coral.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

plantedinvertz said:


> So if I increase my kh/gh, the ph will go down again?
> 
> I am not using crushed coral.


From your earlier post you are recommending to use crushed coral to raise your pH, you are not using it in this aquarium? If the pH of your tapwater is lower then your aquarium and you are not using any buffers in your aquarium then there is something in there raising your pH. This could be the gravel, the stones etc. You can test the various items in your aquarium by adding vinegar on their surface and see if it fizzes. If it reacts then it is the problem.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Okay thanks Grant; Ill test everything out :/

No this tank has no coral in it :/


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Do you think it could be the laterite in the tank 

I think its my airstone since it kinda bubbles up, butbut its an airstone  like nutrafin


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i once picked up some gravel for a tank substrate and it passed the vinegar test, however the ph would always buffer to 7.8 without anything added. Changed the substrate eventually and the problem was fixed. So even if you pass the vinegar test, try placing some of the substrate into a container fill it with water, every now and then agitate it. In another container, just place some tap water in it. Give a few days, measure the ph of each container. The tap water shouldn't rise being your in coquitlam, but theres a possibility of something leaching into the pipes in your neighbourhood buffering the water up (and appearing as it ages). If your substrate water rises and the tap water doesn't, then its your gravel doing it.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Alright, thanks for the insight! Im on westwood plateau so D:


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

The thing is, I had this gravel for 4 years or so and this hasnt happened until a few months ago o.o this is the Marina Gravel.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Gravel test is a fail T_T water is still 7.0 :/

I need help  oh, and all the cherries in this tank died RIP

I have a lot of plants, could it be to much oxygen?


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Nothing to do with Oxygen or the airstone. Laterite wont do it either. Has to be something in there, are there plants? CO2?


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Yea i have a lot of plants in there, no Co2. Should i start adding Co2?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

It's the laterite probably. Is your laterite capped or mixed with the substrate? Depending on the source of the laterite, some of them have fairly high carbonate content.

Edit: I should have added that the pH is not killing your shrimp. It's probably also the laterite. Laterite is formed by mineral depletion which then concentrates metals. That's why planted tank users use lateral - as a source or iron. It's also why laterites are mined, for their increased metal content. I'll remove the substrate and use something else.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

That is very high for laterite. As in the previous post run some tests on the substrate by adding some to a cup with tap water and test it after a few hours.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> That is very high for laterite. As in the previous post run some tests on the substrate by adding some to a cup with tap water and test it after a few hours.


Some laterites are mined from Oolite beds, which are pure calcium carbonates. They can be intercalated. It's not the laterite itself, but rather the layers of other stuff it comes with.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

I already did the tests with the laterite mixed with the gravel, the PH of the water stayed at 7.0


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Understood but 7.9 is unlikely from any store bought laterite. Anyways, the individual tests are the best way to go in finding the source of the problem. I am not much of a "could be this" kind of guy, test and your answer will reveal itself.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

You're right there Grant. I am not what would cause such a rapid pH bounce either, but I'm pretty sure the laterite is what killed the shrimps. But I guess it's a moot point since the shrimps are all dead.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Alright, thankyou! 

This is so frustrating though :/ I already did the vinegar test on everything in my aquarium, and I still have no answer .______.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Water tests:
Ph 7.8, GH 15 ppm, KH 5ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 15, Ammonia 0


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Neven's suggestion is the way to go, take some gravel out and put into a small container with new tap water, if the pH goes up, you know it's the gravel. You can do similar tests with other items you may have in the aquarium. Your parameters show there are no carbonates being released in any concentration, sounds more like the result you would get with coral in there. I know you said there is not any but the results are consistent with that. Anyways, I suggest doing those tests on the items in the aquarium.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

OKay, ill start with the plants, heater, and fertilizer sticks + gravel again


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Not sure what you mean, I assume sarcasm? Obviously the heater is not the issue, or the plants........


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> Your parameters show there are no carbonates being released in any concentration, sounds more like the result you would get with coral in there. I know you said there is not any but the results are consistent with that. Anyways, I suggest doing those tests on the items in the aquarium.


I'm confused by this? Since coral is mainly Calcium carbonates, how can one get no carbonates as a result of using coral?


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

No, its not sarcasm :3 i actually did it and now i feel stupid T_____________T ; i tested everything possible already. Im ready to give up :/ I started the co2 so hopefully the ph goes down a bit


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I'm confused by this? Since coral is mainly Calcium carbonates, how can one get no carbonates as a result of using coral?


*"Your parameters show there are no carbonates being released in any concentration"*

In any concentration, not *no* carbonates.......


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

plantedinvertz said:


> No, its not sarcasm :3 i actually did it and now i feel stupid T_____________T ; i tested everything possible already. Im ready to give up :/ I started the co2 so hopefully the ph goes down a bit


Brian,
OK, wow awkward. Sorry I figured something was up when you mentioned testing your heater....really just trying to help. CO2 will bring the pH down but it is fairly important to determine what is raising the pH so high as you know. Good luck on the search.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I'm confused by this? Since coral is mainly Calcium carbonates, how can one get no carbonates as a result of using coral?


To expand a bit further, if you rely on Crushed coral to raise pH, it will only release a small amount of carbonates in an acidic environment, once the pH increases the coral stops dissolving. This is why using crushed coral is not an effective means of raising ones hardness levels, only pH which is really a band aid to the bigger issue, no hardness.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> To expand a bit further, if you rely on Crushed coral to raise pH, it will only release a small amount of carbonates in an acidic environment, once the pH increases the coral stops dissolving. This is why using crushed coral is not an effective means of raising ones hardness levels, only pH which is really a band aid to the bigger issue, no hardness.


To expound further, in the absence of CO2, which he intends to add.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> *"Your parameters show there are no carbonates being released in any concentration"*
> 
> In any concentration, not *no* carbonates.......


Once again, I think the point is moot, but KH = 5 is an appreciable amount.

Edit: Actually, I forgot to add, if there is no appreciable amount of carbonate dissolved why would the KH be 5 unless it comes out of his tap at 5 and and also GH = 15? (Ca/Mg and other hardness compound). He's not on well water and he's already listed everything he's added, and you've already excluded the laterite. The GH/KH has to come from somewhere, which means _something _ is being dissolved.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Once again, I think the point is moot, but KH = 5 is an appreciable amount.
> 
> Edit: Actually, I forgot to add, if there is no appreciable amount of carbonate dissolved why would the KH be 5 unless it comes out of his tap at 5 and and also GH = 15? (Ca/Mg and other hardness compound). He's not on well water and he's already listed everything he's added, and you've already excluded the laterite. The GH/KH has to come from somewhere, which means _something _ is being dissolved.


His levels are in ppm, not degrees. That is extremely low. Again, those results can come from Crushed coral but that is not even 1 degree......


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> His levels are in ppm, not degrees. That is extremely low. Again, those results can come from Crushed coral but that is not even 1 degree......


Wow, I apologize Grant. I'm in the wrong thread. I wouldn't even worry about pH at those readings. I dose my tanks to TDS = 120 ppm or so, planted or unplanted, CO2 or not. At those readings, the pH is meaningless, at least to me. All you have to do is have anything dissolved at those levels and the pH will rise.


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> Brian,
> OK, wow awkward. Sorry I figured something was up when you mentioned testing your heater....really just trying to help. CO2 will bring the pH down but it is fairly important to determine what is raising the pH so high as you know. Good luck on the search.


Its cool  I was just getting so desperate T___________T; Tested everything three times and no luck;

I think ill just go with cichlids in this tank


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## plantedinvertz (Apr 21, 2010)

Anyways, I stuck an black ghost knife in this tank and miraculously the PH went down to 7 again .__. i dont know why, but thank god.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

One thing no-one else has suggested yet .. Your tap water may have a fairly high CO2 content which will bring pH down.. Take a glass of water and set it aside .. Test pH on it , then in a few hours test it again and see if pH goes up . 
My tap water comes out at about 6.8 ( well water ) , but after sitting a few hours it goes to 7.4 or higher.


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