# Regular T5 light fixture using HO T5 bulbs???



## EdmondsAquarium

I have a double strip T5 light fixture (2x28w). Can I use the HO T5 tubes? If I need to change the ballast, where I can get it? worth doing it? thx


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## Ra's al Ghul

You need a different ballast, Canadian Aquatics has some great fixtures. I would personally go with Led


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## Scherb

Hello. no you can not use them. you can use t5 no bulbs in a t5 ho fixture but not the other way around. from what i have herd. Cheers


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## 2wheelsx2

I used them no problems, but YMMV. I didn't like the output though because it didn't maintain its spectrum. Better to get the right bulbs at King Ed's or just move to T5HO.


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## neven

It is misleading to say you can use them. NO YOU CAN NOT!

A t5 bulb is 28w, a t5ho bulb is 54w. Just because it can light the bulb doesn't mean its wise to do, or even safe to do.

What will happen is this: Extra heat and ballast lifespan greatly reduced. If the fixture is cheap enough, you now add the risk of fire, especially if the solder joints on the wire connections are cheap.

Now as for running Normal t5 Bulbs on a t5ho ballast, it is fine, The ballasts in the t5ho sense the voltage drop across the bulb and will switch electronically so the bulb gets its proper wattage. This is evident with a par meter and ammeter on the line feed to the fixture, no increase in par or wattage switching a t5 bulb from a t5 ballast or t5ho ballast. Illegal fixtures (non CSA/ULc approved) may not have this circuitry to do this though. There are also a couple after market ballasts you can buy that are designed to Overdrive bulbs, BUT NEVER to overdrive a ballast... Ballasts are only able to handle a maximum current draw (wattage), this is why t5ho bulbs burn out t5no ballasts.


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## 2wheelsx2

2wheelsx2 said:


> *I used them no problems, but YMMV.* I didn't like the output though because it didn't maintain its spectrum. Better to get the right bulbs at King Ed's or just move to T5HO.





neven said:


> It is misleading to say you can use them. NO YOU CAN NOT!


Not sure if you actually read my post. I don't see the CAN in there anywhere, do you? I even qualified it as anecdotal.

Having gotten that out of the way, can you explain how a bulb can draw more than 28w the ballast is supplying? Where is the heat coming from? Heat comes from energy not dissipated as light, but in this case, there is insufficient energy to drive the light.

That makes no sense to me, and doesn't fit into any electricitcal or hydraulics theory I've taken. Let's use the simple analogy of a pipe flowing water. You're telling me that if my pump puts out 4000 gph, I can put a bigger hose on the end and draw more water than it supplies? If you can show me the flow equations, let's submit a paper the APEGBC and be famous together!

Have you done this? How does an analog ballast "sense" anything? I may buy into if the el cheapo Coralife's came with digital ballasts but THEY DO NOT. If they did, you would be able to dim them like the ATI units.

I had been running my T5 NO for almost 2 years with T5 HO's and the bulbs did not last any less or more than the T5 NO's. I had 2x36" and 1x24". They were close to 4 years old when I started using T5 HO's. So either Thomas Edison is rolling over in his grave or I won the 6/49. So clearly in my case, I COULD use them, just like you COULD overdose Metricide by 5x when everyone else advised against it. Why do I bring this up? Because you brought up SAFETY.

I do agree with the not overdriving the ballast however, and I would never do that. You go on about all the other processes which I was not doing, but you don't explain what is causing the heat and reducing the lifespan in the T5NO ballast.


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## neven

1) i took the "I used them no problems" as yes you can.

2) A t5no isn't designed to run a t5ho bulb. the bulb will be under driven, which with some fixtures is fine, but there are some real cheap parts out there. What can happen is the bulb wont strike, or wont maintain its strike, so it keeps trying, creating heat. Often times cheap parts use cheap solder and cheap wire connectors. the heat expands and contracts, loosening joints and could create points in which arcs can happen (can catch fire from this point). Ballasts are generally current limiting, but add voltage with the same current, you get more power (striking voltage can be quite high). that is where the heat can come from. Remember that Circuitry hates heat, so if things stay warm too long they start to degrade (lifespan). At the same time some t5no fixtures have safeties integrated in their design to prevent this scenerio. This is why i would recommend staying within the specifications, you just dont know what you have, so just stick to matching bulb to ballast.

3) all t5ho ballasts are electronic, its part of the standard. Electronic ballasts are not necessarily digital programmed ballasts, they are ballasts that have ICs that control what happens at certain presets, This is how t5ho ballasts know you placed a normal output bulb in there, the resistance changes, so it will adjust the current needed to drive the bulb. The joys of transistors (i've assembled circuits like this at BCIT to better understand the internal workings of ballasts and various forms of Dimming/PWM control)

4) metricide, come on really? nothing to do with this. Theres a big difference between fishie deaths from metricide and a household catching on fire. i always promote a safe approach to things, especially electrical, its my trade and i've seen what happens when corners are cut.

5) Overdriving talk was me being longwinded.

I did not mean to sound as im attacking you, i've seen many really cheap parts being installed all over, especially lighting that isn't technically allowed to be used here (csa/ULc stickers absent). Just last week i was removing light fixtures (t5NOs) where the conductors had their insulation crumble off by merely touching it. Not just one, but almost all of them.

as for your pump analogy, you give a 120V pump 150V, you get more flow, it probably could handle the increased voltage, but the pump will run hotter and you could burn it out. how can this happen with pumps? the transformer taps get changed and everything gets overvoltaged  not likely but heh, im tired and its still "possible"


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## 2wheelsx2

2wheelsx2 said:


> I used them no problems, but YMMV. I didn't like the output though because it didn't maintain its spectrum. *Better to get the right bulbs at King Ed's or just move to T5HO.*


Just so you know that essentially I recommended the same thing in my original post. I said that I did it but I don't recommend it. And no I didn't take it as a personal attack, but I just didn't understand which part of my 3 sentences said it can be done. There's a lot of difference between CAN and DID. Just because Casey Stoner takes the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca at 95 MPH on his Repsol Honda doesn't mean I CAN.



neven said:


> 1) i took the "I used them no problems" as yes you can.
> 
> 2) A t5no isn't designed to run a t5ho bulb. the bulb will be under driven, which with some fixtures is fine, but there are some real cheap parts out there.


100% agreed, as I stated in my original post.



> 3) all t5ho ballasts are electronic, its part of the standard. Electronic ballasts are not necessarily digital programmed ballasts, they are ballasts that have ICs that control what happens at certain presets, This is how t5ho ballasts know you placed a normal output bulb in there, the resistance changes, so it will adjust the current needed to drive the bulb. The joys of transistors (i've assembled circuits like this at BCIT to better understand the internal workings of ballasts and various forms of Dimming/PWM control)


Useful information, but since I use my T5HO bulbs with my T5HO GLO ballasts, a non-issue. This is also my last fluorescent fixture, which will be retired this year to be replaced by LED's.



> 4) metricide, come on really? nothing to do with this. Theres a big difference between fishie deaths from metricide and a household catching on fire. i always promote a safe approach to things, especially electrical, its my trade and i've seen what happens when corners are cut.


I didn't say it was this issue. I mention it with SAFETY. I can tell you statistically speaking, many more fireman die from chemical fume inhalation than fires, so why should we play with chemicals, but not risk fire? That was my point. You brought up the safety aspect, so I held you accountable for previous actions. I don't understand why safety is a concern when it comes to electrical, but when it comes to chemical. I do handle electricity, but as my wife is a chemist and I deal with a lot of hazardous material for my work as a geologist, I am 1000x more worried about chemicals than I am of an electrical or forest fire.



> as for your pump analogy, you give a 120V pump 150V, you get more flow, it probably could handle the increased voltage, but the pump will run hotter and you could burn it out. how can this happen with pumps? the transformer taps get changed and everything gets overvoltaged  not likely but heh, im tired and its still "possible"


Once again, wrong analogy. Supplying 150V is increasing the energy. You can "suck" more than 120V out of a supplied 120 volts. In the pump analogy, supplying more flow to a restricted pump nets little gain but heat because frictional and head losses come into play. That's why companies pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for proper pipe and materials handling design. They also hire electrical engineers to design circuits and don't do stuff like we do, stuffing T5HO bulbs into T5 fixtures. But we're not talking a $10k MacIntosh amp here. I'm talking about 2xT5NO fixtures I sold for $40. If it goes, I just throw it out.

So the final analysis is that we agree the bulbs shouldn't be used, which brings us full circle back to my original post.


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## Foxtail

This is the friendliest, most informative pissing match I have ever seen lol

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


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## 2wheelsx2

We aim to please.


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## neven

Foxtail said:


> This is the friendliest, most informative pissing match I have ever seen lol
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


Lol! there is no point getting mean about things on a forum, and is a forun not a place for discussing different viewpoints on common subjects? As long as things dont dont get personal the drama is thwarted and people can glean useful information out of things

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## 2wheelsx2

neven said:


> Lol! there is no point getting mean about things on a forum, and is a forun not a place for discussing different viewpoints on common subjects? As long as things dont dont get personal the drama is thwarted and people can glean useful information out of things


Agreed. Just because you don't agree with what someone else has said doesn't mean you have to flame him/her. I think as long as everyone is respectful, there's plenty of room for meaningful discussions. And of course:

"Are you not ENTERTAINED?" (in best Russell Crowe voice).


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## jbyoung00008

I enjoy reading a good debate. Pretty funny actually. Who knows who is right????? Electricity is a dangerous thing. Mixing and matching bulbs and ballasts probably isnt a good thing unless you know what you are doing or maybe it is if you like playing with fire.


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## effox

I like playing with fire, but I still wouldn't start swapping pieces out unless I knew better. Give me led's and a driver, piece of cake. Start messing with higher wattage and I'd be afraid of the ramifications. I wouldn't advise someone else unless they were certain either.


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## EdmondsAquarium

Thanks for all the inputs!

decide to go with a T5 HO fixture. It's the way to go. I bought T5 bulbs from King Ed, only last about 3-4 months (about 8 hrs/day). Maybe HO bulbs can last longer?


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