# so is live rock a must



## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

so i see online there all this plastic planted decoration.
i want to do a full tank like this.
Red Sea Coral Reef Aquarium Ornaments - Décor - Fish - PetSmart 
would this be ok. our do i have to do live rock . i cant really afford to do live rock and there some in the tank but i can afford to do alot of this fake plant stuff


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

I would add afew pieces of rock ( live or dead ) the dead rock will come around eventually. You need that for your bio ? .You could add a few plastic plants till you got enough bit and pieces of corals . 
Take your time and add a bit here and there. If you want come by and I will give you a few pieces of dead rock you can stuff in there. 
Personally I think it would look tacky with all the palstic stuff. But thats just my opinion. Some people like it some don't.( your little girl would LOVE it )
Take your time ...piece by piece and you will have a stunning tank.


If it gets to much for you I will gladly give you double what you paid for it  LOL .

Some times ya gotta enjoy the drive to the destnation .


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## ibenu (Apr 21, 2010)

Johnny, are you doing a Fish Only With Live Rock ? I think you are and as the live rock is your filter buy as much as you can

Eww on the Petsmart stuff really, and it wont have spaces for things colonize it (the happy filter stuff) you need porous material..http://www.fishlore.com/saltwater_aquarium_types.htm 
Link above check it out let us know what kind of salt water you are doing.. EXCITING going to the dark side!!








This id from JL I cannot find the pick but they have HUGE ceramic pieces that LOOk like rock white now and will colonize all the stuff you want for your filter so to speak...

You need live rock regardless as thats how you filter salt water by all reference material I have read. Otherwise whats going to keep your tank alive?


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jun 2, 2010)

I have never done SW but have a question related to this since I am thinking about starting. If you were to use the plastic decoration wouldnt there be potential for creatures (anemones etc) to move onto the surface of it making it hard to remove the decoration later on without killing/damaging the animals?

Also... just to comment... that plastic decoration looks really fake and unnatural. If I were you I would just slowly add live rock as you are able to afford it but like I said I dont know anything about SW.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

hmm, I never thought about doing plastic in a salt tank.. you should totally check out mini reefs, Ive seen them in as small as 3.3 gallon tanks. this one guy even made one in a 1 gallon with under gravel filters. you would only need like 0ne or two pieces of rock, then start saving and by the time you have the cash to set the big tank up, you have established rock you can move over.

Here's another question. live sand verse regular sand, ho much longer does it take to establish?


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

ibenu said:


> Johnny, are you doing a Fish Only With Live Rock ? I think you are and as the live rock is your filter buy as much as you can
> 
> Eww on the Petsmart stuff really, and it wont have spaces for things colonize it (the happy filter stuff) you need porous material..Saltwater Aquarium Types - FOWLR, Fish Only with Live Rock, Reef Tank
> Link above check it out let us know what kind of salt water you are doing.. EXCITING going to the dark side!!
> ...


i was gonna put the live rock i have in the back . putt fake stuff in the front .
ive done a little research and its ok . the plastic stuff there is red sea coral life brand it is not petsmart brand name crap .


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> I have never done SW but have a question related to this since I am thinking about starting. If you were to use the plastic decoration wouldnt there be potential for creatures (anemones etc) to move onto the surface of it making it hard to remove the decoration later on without killing/damaging the animals?
> 
> Also... just to comment... that plastic decoration looks really fake and unnatural. If I were you I would just slowly add live rock as you are able to afford it but like I said I dont know anything about SW.


it is fake but it is for a 2 year old kid . and my i don't really want a bigger electric bill . as my 180 600 watts of light is good


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

and this is the idea more for what i wanna do 
YouTube - 120 Gallon Saltwater Fish Only / Marine Fish Aquairum with Artificial Coral Reef Aquarium Decoration


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## 182 (Apr 21, 2010)

From the decription:



> In this particular fish tank which is a 120 Gallon tank 6 feet in length, had approximately 100 lbs of live rock; as you can see the tank appeared empty, and the fish had little hiding spaces. Upgrading this Fish-Only-with-Live-Rock tank was easy. First, clean the new artificial reefs thoroughly to remove all packing materials. It is recommended to soak Instant Reef in freshwater 24 hours before installing. Next, carefully place the artificial coral reefs into the tank. Feel free to leave existing Live Rock in the tank and utilize them with the artificial coral reef inserts, doing this provides more caves for your fish to enjoy!


It's a little misleading either way, as it later states that this product helps prevent the removal of live rock from the sea...

Anyhow, they _kept_ the live rock in this one, and just added those ugly inserts.


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

Strictly speaking you do not need any live rock for SW. There was a time in the bad old days when no one had ever heard of live rock and people used UGFs in SW tanks.

You can get nitrifying bacteria to develop the same way it does in FW (e.g. on a filter sponge), but live rock makes life much easier and interesting because of it's lifeforms and de-nitrification powers.

Those fake corals on not really my cup of tea, but adding them is no different than adding any other decoration to a FW tank. If you're going to spend all that money on a bunch of fake stuff, I would rather buy a couple pieces of actual live rock and then fill the rest of the tank out of base rock. Over time I guarantee you will get the reef itch and want to experiment. Any old PC fixture can keep alive a wide range of low light corals.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

I would stay away from those fake stuff. After a few months in the water, they are going to be sorrounded with algae and all the nasties and you will just end up throwing it away.


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

thing that makes me laugh thou is . how many people in fresh water in this forum have fake plants for fresh water . really all fresh water fish should have live plants in there tank as well . and fake plants look dumb as well in fresh water too .


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

fkshiu said:


> Strictly speaking you do not need any live rock for SW. There was a time in the bad old days when no one had ever heard of live rock and people used UGFs in SW tanks.
> 
> You can get nitrifying bacteria to develop the same way it does in FW (e.g. on a filter sponge), but live rock makes life much easier and interesting because of it's lifeforms and de-nitrification powers.
> 
> Those fake corals on not really my cup of tea, but adding them is no different than adding any other decoration to a FW tank. If you're going to spend all that money on a bunch of fake stuff, I would rather buy a couple pieces of actual live rock and then fill the rest of the tank out of base rock. Over time I guarantee you will get the reef itch and want to experiment. Any old PC fixture can keep alive a wide range of low light corals.


so your saying with my 54 watt light. there's coral that will look just great in a tank . i think you need at least 150watts of light for good live growth


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

Most soft corals like mushrooms, anthelia, green star polyp and most zoanthids will do fine with 54W of light. There are even corals that don't require light at all, but I don't recommend them for beginners since they need daily manual feedings.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Correct me if I am missing something here. Johnny, do you have a biological filter? It sounds as though you want to create a small colorful artificial reef for your child to enjoy yes? 
Some live rock will act as a biological filter, so will many other filter options. Sorry I don't know what system you are putting together exactly but there is nothing wrong with artificial corals. Kids love them too because they are bright and they are also very easy to clean. 

Why are we so inclined to try and convert somebody to a reef aquarium when all they want to do is have a few fish in an aquarium? We all have a different view of what we want our aquarium to look like. As long as you are providing a healthy environment, go for it! Have fun!


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> Correct me if I am missing something here. Johnny, do you have a biological filter? It sounds as though you want to create a small colorful artificial reef for your child to enjoy yes?
> Some live rock will act as a biological filter, so will many other filter options. Sorry I don't know what system you are putting together exactly but there is nothing wrong with artificial corals. Kids love them too because they are bright and they are also very easy to clean.
> 
> Why are we so inclined to try and convert somebody to a reef aquarium when all they want to do is have a few fish in an aquarium? We all have a different view of what we want our aquarium to look like. As long as you are providing a healthy environment, go for it! Have fun!


thanks grant.
it has protien skimmer. fulval 304. and 2 maxijet powerheads .


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## snow (Apr 21, 2010)

Post some pics up of your tank.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> Correct me if I am missing something here. Johnny, do you have a biological filter? It sounds as though you want to create a small colorful artificial reef for your child to enjoy yes?
> Some live rock will act as a biological filter, so will many other filter options. Sorry I don't know what system you are putting together exactly but there is nothing wrong with artificial corals. Kids love them too because they are bright and they are also very easy to clean.
> 
> Why are we so inclined to try and convert somebody to a reef aquarium when all they want to do is have a few fish in an aquarium? We all have a different view of what we want our aquarium to look like. As long as you are providing a healthy environment, go for it! Have fun!


Good solid statement 

---

If you are going to get the fake stuff, make sure to clean them regularly, or else they will end up looking really ugly and wont serve the purpose.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

i have some fake coral that a friend had in his freshwater tank.. a lot of the colours are faded and they dont look too great


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Johnnyfishtanks said:


> thing that makes me laugh thou is . how many people in fresh water in this forum have fake plants for fresh water . really all fresh water fish should have live plants in there tank as well . and fake plants look dumb as well in fresh water too .


the only exception is cichlids. Africans will shred plants and just make a mess, but I agree, live plants is the way to go. Fish will eat the plants, it gives them a variety of diet, which is healthy

I personaly dont like the plastic stuff, I think it gets dirty too easy and looks fake, I try to stay natural but it is hard.. finding the right rocks to build caves, when petsmart sells caves...

it is a personal taste thing. I look forward to seeign yoru tank tho once you get it up and running.

are you doing a clownfish nano?


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## bvlester (Jul 19, 2010)

Johnnyfishtanks said:


> so i see online there all this plastic planted decoration.
> i want to do a full tank like this.
> Red Sea Coral Reef Aquarium Ornaments - Décor - Fish - PetSmart
> would this be ok. our do i have to do live rock . i cant really afford to do live rock and there some in the tank but i can afford to do alot of this fake plant stuff


I have been in and out of SW over the past 20+ years and yes you need LR you can buy a bunch of base rock and seed it with a few pieces of LR. That will do if you go this rout try and get dead live rock or lace rock for your base. If you are like me I get all LR I add it at different times this give the rock time to adjust to bio load in your tank. If you are setting up a new tank I but about half of what I want in my tank in the end and put that in on week 2 then on week 3 put the other half in I get each half from different sources. I also start with a sand bed with some live sand from a LFS or a friend's tank a cup or two will be lots to seed your tank. I also am ably to add 1or fish on week 3, week four you can add another fish and some coral. now you have to wait a week for the rock and sand to adjust there biological organisms. when ever you add a fish you should wait at least 1 week before add more. I just wanted to add some thing there is 2 things you really do need 10 Live Rock and 2) a protein skimmer. fish and corals are nice too..

Bill


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## bvlester (Jul 19, 2010)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> I have never done SW but have a question related to this since I am thinking about starting. If you were to use the plastic decoration wouldnt there be potential for creatures (anemones etc) to move onto the surface of it making it hard to remove the decoration later on without killing/damaging the animals?
> 
> Also... just to comment... that plastic decoration looks really fake and unnatural. If I were you I would just slowly add live rock as you are able to afford it but like I said I dont know anything about SW.


If you are going to do plastic in a SW tank then watch and be careful as some plastics can release toxins in to the water column. I am not say don't do it but be careful is all. I would never get plastic plants for FW or SW tanks. you can buy SW plants at J&L's and many others.

Bill


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## bvlester (Jul 19, 2010)

Johnnyfishtanks said:


> so your saying with my 54 watt light. there's coral that will look just great in a tank . i think you need at least 150watts of light for good live growth


Filter in saltwater become nitrate factories that is why they are no longer recommended and really nice reef tank do not have them. You can how ever use them as a small refugium or a carbon reactor. If you have a canister filter pack it full with carbon and it will be good for 3-4 months. This works really well I know of a couple people that do this and there tank are nice and clear.

Bill


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