# Port Mann Bridge closed after falling ice injures driver, damages vehicles (with vide



## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Port Mann Bridge closed after falling ice injures driver, damages vehicles (with video)

Perhaps they should keep the old bridge for winter use.

The new bridge is apparently shut down in both directions.


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

sad...............


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i hope they sue the hell out of the govt for this stupidity, this is not a freak accident or an "act of god" situation, this is an issue about poor engineering. Electronic deicing has been available for atleast 5 years now for major infrastructure installations such as cable bridges. Now when it gets done, the price tag added to the liberals pet project will likely dwarf the cost overruns of the NDPs pet project, but i doubt we'll hear much of it.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

neven said:


> i hope they sue the hell out of the govt for this stupidity, this is not a freak accident or an "act of god" situation, this is an issue about poor engineering. Electronic deicing has been available for atleast 5 years now for major infrastructure installations such as cable bridges. Now when it gets done, the price tag added to the liberals pet project will likely dwarf the cost overruns of the NDPs pet project, but i doubt we'll hear much of it.


Perhaps they hired an engineer from the Bahamas or some other warm place.

I had planned on crossing the bridge today but I ended up giving my gf a ride to work instead. I can just imagine being trapped in traffic for a couple of hours. I'd go nut!

Well it's only a month or so out of a year that the bridge sits idle. Look at the bright side it'll last longer.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

May be they should have hung Christmas lights on the cables to melt the ice. The would be gorgeous.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> Perhaps they hired an engineer from the Bahamas or some other warm place.
> 
> I had planned on crossing the bridge today but I ended up giving my gf a ride to work instead. I can just imagine being trapped in traffic for a couple of hours. I'd go nut!
> 
> Well it's only a month or so out of a year that the bridge sits idle. Look at the bright side it'll last longer.


and you'll save yourself a month of tolls every year!


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

gklaw said:


> May be they should have hung Christmas lights on the cables to melt the ice. The would be gorgeous.


 Here's Christy Clarks email address:

[email protected]

Fire off an email and give her your suggestion. LOL

She used to live three blocks away from me. She's a nice individual! Perhaps she'll give you the contract to do the job.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

gklaw said:


> May be they should have hung Christmas lights on the cables to melt the ice. The would be gorgeous.


They'd have to use the old style bulbs though and the electric costs would be crazy...


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## JohnnyAppleSnail (May 30, 2010)

I'd be pretty upset having to pay for collision deductable for no fault of their own...they say it was a freak accident and bridge is up to code!? if it happens once it will happen again,nothing like driving across the bridge now and being paranoid....


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

JohnnyAppleSnail said:


> I'd be pretty upset having to pay for collision deductable for no fault of their own...they say it was a freak accident and bridge is up to code!? if it happens once it will happen again,nothing like driving across the bridge now and being paranoid....


Try to get government to pay for damages. LOL You'd have to sue!!


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## neoh (Apr 22, 2010)

It's easy to sue the city. You can sue over pot-holes, too. They usually settle pretty quick.

I worked on the Golden Ears Bridge as a Safety Coordinator (surprise, surprise.) and we had this as a safety concern before they even started on the bridge. This is German engineering.

Port Mann Bridge was built by Peter Kewitt, an American company. Laziness!

But on a side note. I haven't seen the new bridge yet, I avoid the Port Mann like the plague and never have a reason to go over it.


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## timv (Dec 17, 2010)

i thought kiewitt was from alberta?


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

neoh said:


> It's easy to sue the city. You can sue over pot-holes, too. They usually settle pretty quick.
> 
> I worked on the Golden Ears Bridge as a Safety Coordinator (surprise, surprise.) and we had this as a safety concern before they even started on the bridge. This is German engineering.
> 
> ...


 Vancouver has a department called Risk Management. It's not easy to reach a settlement. I know that you can sue for damages but that can be costly unless you do it yourself.

My neighbour and I made the news a few months ago. Her truck was damaged by an explosion. The city dragged their feet so ICBC stepped up to the plate and paid.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> Vancouver has a department called Risk Management. It's not easy to reach a settlement. I know that you can sue for damages but that can be costly unless you do it yourself.
> 
> My neighbour and I made the news a few months ago. Her truck was damaged by an explosion. The city dragged their feet so ICBC stepped up to the plate and paid.


And more often then not they say "act of God" and use that as a defense to claim they aren't responsible.


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

Immus21 said:


> They'd have to use the old style bulbs though and the electric costs would be crazy...


that would get the provinces smart meter a ticking away......................


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Lamplighter said:


> Here's Christy Clarks email address:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> ...


Haha, funny. I am pretty sure I have a few other things to say to her first. I think lighting it up is cool.

Seriously, I have worked on a few bridges. I stood on top of the Port Mann arch with cars moving below - COOL feeling.
When I heard the news about falling ice on Port Mann. I thought: "oops". It is an easy oversight albeit maybe not excusable because of the consequences. It does take an usual sequence of climatic conditions for that to happen. "Act of God" may be not but understandable they might have kept the known "best practices."

Pretty sure this will be in the checklist of cable-stayed bridge engineers now. There are only a handful in the world. We have one of the best in North Vancouver. Ah, the best one is a Chinese - Mr. T.Y. Lin, retired now I think.

We learn something new everyday. The Tacoma suspension bridge collapsed shortly after opening.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

gklaw said:


> Haha, funny. I am pretty sure I have a few other things to say to her first. I think lighting it up is cool.
> 
> Seriously, I have worked on a few bridges. I stood on top of the Port Mann arch with cars moving below - COOL feeling.
> When I heard the news about falling ice on Port Mann. I thought: "oops". It is an easy oversight albeit maybe not excusable because of the consequences. It does take an usual sequence of climatic conditions for that to happen. "Act of God" may be not but understandable they might have kept the known "best practices."
> ...


The telephone wires ifrom the lane to the houses are sagging, due to the snow. My Satellite gathered snow so I lost the signal.

The angles of the cables on the Port Mann are such that they will gather snow and/or ice.

It's obviously an oversight that could have deadly consequences if left unchecked. The government can stick their FREE trips. What's next? Is the bridge going to collapse?


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Lamplighter said:


> The angles of the cables on the Port Mann are such that they will gather snow and/or ice.
> It's obviously an oversight that could have deadly consequences if left unchecked.


As engineers we always do our best to cover all possible events. The angle of the cables has very little to do with it. It fact, it should help alleviate snow and ice accumulation. It has to do with the all the weather elements we experienced in the last two days. Ice form quick and melt very quickly.

It is like saying that the City should have known and kept the road safe so there is absolutely no accident with injuries.

It should be an easy fix and I am sure it will be if not already considered for this and other projects. Engineering is also a matter of probability. I.e. what is the likelihood of the event. If it is unlikely, you don't spend the taxpayers money - although it could happen. Its' like you spending money to make sure you will always get signal. My basement has a small (I hope) leak now. It had leaked and it will leak again with the extreme combination of weather conditions. It still does not justify me to spend the money to fix it for good - maybe at a more convenient time later.

I am sure the Port Mann incident is an unfortunate oversight that we will learn from. Glad no one was seriously hurt.


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## The Guy (Nov 26, 2010)

An act God causing the freak accident of falling snow and ice , how about an engineering screwup with no cable heat tracing obviously.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

The Guy said:


> An act God causing the freak accident of falling snow and ice , how about an engineering screwup with no cable heat tracing obviously.


I don't believe that is a standard practice to heat trace bridge cables - I could be wrong though. I don't recall that being done on Lions Gate Bridge. It would be nasty if a chunk fall and hit a boat below.

I also do not agree that it could be brushed aside as an Act of God. It is not fair to the drivers or the injured. Pretty sure ICBC will and should go after the engineers' insurance. The engineers do have to take some responsibilities.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

News just had a piece about it and some transportation guy saying "the bridge was designed to the Canadian standards" in regards to the ice problem


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## Smallermouse (Jan 28, 2012)

i do not think any of our bridges has heat tracing installed into them. But if they want. I want to take on that project.


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

The Port Mann was not the only bridge to have ice falling from the cables. I heard on cknw that the golden ears and Alex Fraser had ice falling too.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

bonsai dave said:


> The Port Mann was not the only bridge to have ice falling from the cables. I heard on cknw that the golden ears and Alex Fraser had ice falling too.


As soon as I heard about Port Mann, I thought ouch as they cables hang over traffic. I think the cables at the other bridges are not directly over the driving lanes. It is still possible that they will bounce off the cables onto on traffic - but they will probably break off into small chunks first.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

They released video footage of the falling ice today. It's obvious that the cables are holding the snow until the mass gets heavy enough do drop. The cable tower is at the center of the bridge and the cables run across three lanes of traffic. This is a potential killer bridge! The fix will run into the tens of millions, if it's possible. 

If there's even an remote chance of happening again I'd say scrap the bridge. What's a life worth?


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Lamplighter said:


> If there's even an remote chance of happening again I'd say scrap the bridge. What's a life worth?


A sad reality is that there is always a price to life. When something dramatic like this happen, people react to it emotionally. "Remote" is a matter of perception.

There is always a remote chance that a car (or the bus) lose control and crash at a bus stop and kill a number of people. Shall we design and install crash control at all bus stops that will always protect the people waiting and never kill the driver no matter what.

A remote chance of once in 10 years may justify monitoring the bridge for closure. Certainly not scrapping the bridge or spending $1 Billion. Confederation Bridge is monitored for high wind and closure. Certain things in engineering is design for 1 in 10 years probability of occurrence; some are 1 in 100 years.

Hope the engineers will come up with an ingenious solution. Monitoring may become an option as well.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

gklaw said:


> A sad reality is that there is always a price to life. When something dramatic like this happen, people react to it emotionally. "Remote" is a matter of perception.
> 
> There is always a remote chance that a car (or the bus) lose control and crash at a bus stop and kill a number of people. Shall we design and install crash control at all bus stops that will always protect the people waiting and never kill the driver no matter what.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to tell you that reality doesn't cut it when it comes to slush/ice falling from cables. I'm not Chicken Little that runs around screaming that the sky is falling. In this case there could have been deadly consequences.

You don't have to be an engineer to see that the bridge has a poor design. Common sense tells you that snow will gather on cables and will drop when gravity takes a hold of the mass.

I travel that way once a week and my pick up has a sun roof. What else is wrong with the bridge? Like I wrote earlier "They can stick their FREE TRIPS" I will not use the bridge even if it's an inconvenience.

What's next "icicle spears" dropping from the sky. I'm a taxpayer and I've partly paid for the bridge. FIX IT so no projectiles or any mass falls on traffic. If that can't be done "TEAR IT DOWN" and build a new bridge.


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## Smallermouse (Jan 28, 2012)

Bridge fail written all over it.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> I'm sorry to tell you that reality doesn't cut it when it comes to slush/ice falling from cables. I'm not Chicken Little that runs around screaming that the sky is falling. In this case there could have been delay consequences.
> 
> You don't have to be an engineer to see that the bridge has a poor design. Common sense tells you that snow will gather on cables and will drop when gravity takes a hold of the mass.
> 
> ...


Might not go around like chicken little, but in all honesty and in my opinion you're about one of the most dramatic people I've ever "met". You've even surpassed the most annoying customer I've ever dealt with who made comments like "if they're hiding this what else are they hiding".


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

kacairns said:


> Might not go around like chicken little, but in all honesty and in my opinion you're about one of the most dramatic people I've ever "met". You've even surpassed the most annoying customer I've ever dealt with who made comments like "if they're hiding this what else are they hiding".


 Do you really think that I care about your opinion?

You sound like a defense attorney!! The company that built the bridge will be sued!!

By the way you were whining about my posts on the other tread. If I recall correctly you felt that it was improper to talk about gun control because it was dishonoring the lives of the children or something along that line.

I guess you're OK with families being injured or worse by matter falling from the bridges cables. I'm not!!! I don't think that anyone should wait until there's loss of life if it can be prevented.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> Do you really think that I care about your opinion?
> 
> You sound like a defense attorney!! The company that built the bridge will be sued!!
> 
> ...


You type just to hear the keys click don't you? If I recall correctly, I wasn't the only one who made the exact same comment on that thread and if everyone was to take the pessimistic views that you constantly post in numerous threads, we all might as well just stock up on food for 10 years, stay home, cut ourselves off from the outside world and hope no one knocks on the door because it could be the end of the world.


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## Smallermouse (Jan 28, 2012)

Were there any compensation for the damaged vehicles and injured people?


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

kacairns said:


> You type just to hear the keys click don't you? If I recall correctly, I wasn't the only one who made the exact same comment on that thread and if everyone was to take the pessimistic views that you constantly post in numerous threads, we all might as well just stock up on food for 10 years, stay home, cut ourselves off from the outside world and hope no one knocks on the door because it could be the end of the world.


 Why don't you ask one of the moderators if there's an "IGNORE" button.

I'm not forcing you to read what I write!!! Like I said "I don't care about your opinion". If you want to be rude so be it!! It's not my forum so I guess you can post what you want.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> Why don't you ask one of the moderators if there's an "IGNORE" button.
> 
> I'm not forcing you to read what I write!!! Like I said "I don't care about your opinion". If you want to be rude so be it!! It's not my forum so I guess you can post what you want.


I was just being honest, if that is rude so be it. I'm sure I'm not the only one with that opinion but like you said "you don't care". Sometimes I like reading what you write, just so I can entertain myself after a stressful day. Laughing at stupidity is enjoyable. Maybe take your own advice and find out what that "IGNORE" button does.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

*ding ding ding!* ....take your corners guys! 
actually there is an ignore button....unfortunately I believe the only thing it does is block pm's from the person you are ignoring. Believe me there are a few I wouldn't mind ignoring myself so unfortunately their post still show up and end up getting read regardless of having them ignored. Play nice or Santa will be bypassing your houses this year!


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Contractor responsible for damage from falling ice on Port Mann Bridge: transportation minister

Port Mann Bridge firm will cover damage costs from falling ice, waive tolls

Read more: Port Mann Bridge reopens after 'slush bombs' endanger drivers, damage vehicles (with video)


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

amazing that they try to say "a very unusual combination of winter conditions".... that must be the rep from the construction firm. Unusual winter conditions??? i'm pretty sure it snows in winter... that's really not that unusual! wow im glad i was not driving that bridge. sorry for anyone that was caught in that mess!


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

monkE said:


> amazing that they try to say "a very unusual combination of winter conditions".... that must be the rep from the construction firm. Unusual winter conditions??? i'm pretty sure it snows in winter... that's really not that unusual! wow im glad i was not driving that bridge. sorry for anyone that was caught in that mess!


Well you know how PR people work they try to whitewash everything. I think there was some luck involved in the fact that there were no serious injuries. I drive my son in laws convertible when he wants to use my truck. Based on the video it's almost certain that someone would have been killed if they had been driving a convertible and the slush/ice hit them in the head.

The spiel about "unusual weather conditions" is a lie. Do they think the public is stupid?

There can be unusual weather conditions that requires a bridge to be closed but snow isn't one of them.

The bridge has to be safe 24/7 all year round. If not tear the bridge down. No father, mother, child or anyone else should have to die due to engineering stupidity.

This is not an easy fix if indeed it can be fixed.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Lamplighter said:


> Well you know how PR people work they try to whitewash everything. I think there was some luck involved in the fact that there were no serious injuries. I drive my son in laws convertible when he wants to use my truck. Based on the video it's almost certain that someone would have been killed if they had been driving a convertible and the slush/ice hit them in the head.
> 
> The spiel about "unusual weather conditions" is **. Do they think the public is stupid?
> 
> ...


While I can understand ones feelings about such issues, there is no need for unnecessary acronyms and self censored words. These are just as unacceptable as the real words themselves... I'm sure your feelings/words can be expressed just as well without the use of these, please and thank you.
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/problems-complaints-suggestions-48/inappropriate-language-31005/


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

What a Joke. 3 billion dollar piece of crap.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

You said it!


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Diztrbd1 said:


> While I can understand ones feelings about such issues, there is no need for unnecessary acronyms and self censored words. These are just as unacceptable as the real words themselves... I'm sure your feelings/words can be expressed just as well without the use of these, please and thank you.
> http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/problems-complaints-suggestions-48/inappropriate-language-31005/


I tried to be polite by NOT writing the actual word. I was certainly not trying to rattle anyone's feathers. By the way I've seen the actual word or worse numerous times at this forum. Since this is family oriented I censored my writing. Nevertheless I will not use self censored words any more.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

I sense another closed topic

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Good call, it was already discussed and John stepped in was a warning instead, lol.


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

I think there is a cable suspended bridge in Sweden or Norway thathas heated cables. The power bill is extremely high and cost prohibitive. (don't shoot the messenger). Also after they do an investigation we might find that we did recieve a very rare weather occurence for this to happen. I doubt very much that the reason was as simple as a snowfall then melting. I believe it was a series of freeze thaw events that cumulated to build up then a quick thaw. I may be wrong but trying to figure out what really happened. I doubt the same thing would happen during a simple snow storm.(I doubt we'd have significant build up)


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I've lived in the Lower Mainland for more than 5 decades. I have an aluminum roof that I had installed in 1985. The snow builds up and at some point if slides off the roof. There has been many similar weather conditions over the years. Look at the bridge design and you can see the cables going across the deck. I'd estimate their angles at around 55-60 degrees. That's certainly an invitation for snow to accumulate on the upper surfaces. 

There are two things that happen to snow in the lower mainland. It'll snow followed by rain or it'll freeze. It's also all about elevation. Snow can melt on the bridge deck but freeze 200' or less above the deck.

My house usually ends up with icicles in the winter. I've been lucky so far in that they hit my skylight and shatter. The velocity of the falling ice isn't high enough to break the glass that's 1/4" and tempered.

I'm certain that a large icicle falling from a 100' or more would tear through a convertible top or sunroof and pierce a skull, if the angle is right. That's common sense!! 


I suppose that human life is cheap it's an easily replaced commodity, mind you that depends on who you ask. I have the philosophy that all life is precious (there are a couple of exceptions) and it should be protected at all cost.

So should the government listen to a fast talking PR person that represents the company or use their common sense? Who's kidding who? The bridge is a lemon as far as I'm concerned. 

The cost of fixing the bridge will run into the millions if indeed it can be fixed. I don't think that it can be fixed.

I head out to Surrey once a week and I will not use that bridge in the winter, if it's cold.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> The cost of fixing the bridge will run into the millions if indeed it can be fixed. I don't think that it can be fixed.


Everything in this world is fixable with the exception of your opinions. Whether the fix is something that would make YOU happy I don't think that is possible because your views of this, discus and many others things you've posted about are very pessimistic and you've already convinced yourself that nothing can be done and you're right.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

kacairns said:


> Everything in this world is fixable with the exception of your opinions. Whether the fix is something that would make YOU happy I don't think that is possible because your views of this, discus and many others things you've posted about are very pessimistic and you've already convinced yourself that nothing can be done and you're right.


I seem to recall that you don't like my opinions and that you thought it would be nice if there was an ignore button.

In the interest of keeping the peace I'll refrain from responding to any thread that you've started. Further I will not respond to any of your posts.

It seems to me that it would be common courtesy if you did the same. I think that would be fair.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> I seem to recall that you don't like my opinions and that you thought it would be nice if there was an ignore button.
> 
> In the interest of keeping the peace I'll refrain from responding to any thread that you've started. Further I will not respond to any of your posts.
> 
> It seems to me that it would be common courtesy if you did the same. I think that would be fair.


You also have a memory problem and can't seem to recall what you've said and differentiate it from what I've said. You were the one who suggested the ignore button, I suggested you look into it for yourself. As I said, I enjoy reading the sometimes complete and utter stupidity that gets posted and I will take every opportunity to respond when I feel it is right as such I've done here. No point in trying o keep the peace when there is no such thing as peace. We live in a world where everything is chaotic, it is only as peaceful as we can control, which is impossible to control everything. People have opinions and like to voice them. I'm sure you know that well because you constantly babble on about how you don't care about others opinions and continually post your own.

Enjoy your evening as you sit there frustrated that you have common courtesy and wont respond to this, unless you can't even hold to what you say.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

You two can be thankful I am not a mod


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## poiuy704 (Nov 6, 2010)

davefrombc said:


> You two can be thankful I am not a mod


got to agree, you guys (or gals) should take your drama elsewhere. maybe swap phone numbers and do your bitching at each other in private


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

davefrombc said:


> You two can be thankful I am not a mod


Luckily I am 

While the world didn't end this week....this thread surely did. 
Now you 2 go play with your fishies & be good lil BCA members!


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