# Crime in Canada?



## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey guys, I am just going to open this up for a responce and I will stay out of the discussion (others than maybe probing for more details or asking a further questions) Do you think there is a crime problem in Canada? It is an election issue, and I want to know what people think. Is it worth spending more money to house more criminals?


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

This is a problem that has many different "branches" to it. I'll start with things like property crime. I once came across a stat that indicated that 85% of property crime is due to people needing money to feed their drug habit. The question then becomes, how do you deal with addiction to reduce that portion of the property crime. 

Another is gangs. The gang lifestyle is not sustainable unless gangs recruit new members. You now have an issue of educating young people to give them some resistance to the "sales pitch" that gang members will eventually try on them, and you need to have a means to help people out of gangs when they ask for help. 

While I believe that prisons are needed to house the repeat, and "hardened" criminal, we also need to put money into educating people on criminal lifestyles, letting them know, or even showing them that the lifestyle of a criminal is not at all an enjoyable one. People need to be taught at a young age the warning signs of the paths that lead to crime.

I also believe that people need to be held accountable for their actions. One prevention program that I heard works well, is giving people a tour of a morque. This is for the irresponsible drivers and gang members. Seeing a dead body with a lecture that it maybe someone close to them one day, seams to creep people out. And yes I have seen more than my share of dead bodies due to irresponsible actions of others, this includes children.

Steve


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

Every dollar spent on social issues such as drug and alcohol abuse, education, and housing is worth several spent on prisons.


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

I think the first step should be the struggling homelessness problem we have in our Canadian cities. They are a large portion of the hardcore drug addicted people. If you give these people a helping hand, then a significant amount of money will not wind its way to the dealers. 

As my socials teacher said, if some one approaches you on the street, homeless, saying he is hungry go buy him/her food! putting money in there hand, can be fueling their addiction, and that is helping no one.

As for alcohol abuse, I believe people should take a stand against government liquor stores. Government programs like this do fund many things, it actually lowers the price on alcohal. There is no competition for prices between local store, so prices stay low. I think with the combined effort of more expensive product, and the help of people with addiction issues, crime would go down significantly.


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## dZilla (Dec 30, 2010)

Lord, most if not all crimes have been going down for the last 25 years.... That is a fact.

Now someone is going to say show me some stats.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x2007005-eng.pdf

Statistics Canada. that's from 2006 but come on now lets make some inferences here crime has dramatically increased in the last 5 years so lets not make that argument.

Media has made it seem like you have a higher probability of being a victim of crime TODAY, then you would be 25 years ago THATS FALSE.

Politicians fear monger, and also this what many governments do. Because you know its far easier to convince people they will be raped or murdered then to see a 'long term goal' of the economics or social policy.

I'm not saying that people that commit crimes should be let off Scott free, but come on now, For example, things like the death penalty do not work to deter crime. They'll deter that one person for sure, but other people they do not. You want factual numbers on that, compare crime rates for murder in states that have capital punishment compared to states (that are right beside each other) that do not.

Recidivism rates are high for a small number of individuals. The majority of people that commit a crime come out of jail and do not do it again. Again that's a fact.

Yes I stated a lot of 'facts' unfortunately i'm not here to footnote every single one of them, most people don't' want to look things up and research them. If you are truly interested in what type of crime is occurring and where it is occurring look up some information about it.

Again, the media LOVES fear mongering and making sensationalized stories, they love printing stories of the person that is out on day parole that committed another property crime.... Don't be alarmed THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE OUT ON DAY PAROLE that don't commit crimes, but would that make the news, probably not..

Again I am only talking about a small percentage of things (like the death penalty) I can have a very civil discussion with anyone lol,,,,,

END RANT lol


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## keitarosan (Apr 21, 2010)

AWW said:


> if some one approaches you on the street, homeless, saying he is hungry go buy him/her food! putting money in there hand, can be fueling their addiction, and that is helping no one.


agreed 100%. though one time, we drove by at mcdonalds hastings to get some food for the kids. a guy asked us for "food money". we said sorry we don't have any cash which is true then proceeded to buy food and bought an extra big mac. we then looked for him outside the store and tried to give him the burger instead. surprisingly, he refused and prefers to have cash instead. even my 7 yr old son was scratching his head that time. he said, "that doesn't make any sense." oh well.....


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

TomC said:


> Every dollar spent on social issues such as drug and alcohol abuse, education, and housing is worth several spent on prisons.


absolutely! and we see evidence of this over and over again. unfortunately, 'getting tough on crime' is such a though-free, feel-good stand that it is unlikely that the federal discussion will get past this rhetoric.


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## darb (Apr 21, 2010)

Crime is on the decline, and it is a certain political party feeding on peoples fears to attract votes, probably those same people who are opposed to registering their long guns ....

All one has to do is look to our South to see that building more prisons and incarcerating more people for longer terms isn't the best solution to crime.

If that freak Stephen Harper ever gets a majority government he will destroy everything that Canadians have fought for and built over the last 143 years.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

our population in canada does not provide enough funding per capita in order to house more criminals in jail. the system is also too relax and leniant. the crimes seem to be more abundantly related to the drug trade as the trade is lucrative. if the government can find a way to either tax or decriminalize the less potent drugs like marijuana, then a lot of the problems will be lessen. There seems to be less and less government accountability and lack of budgetary constraint. "it's not a federal thing, it's a provincial thing, no. it's a municipal thing...so really, who's going to be taking the lead on issues"

there are so many issues and agendas that need to be addressed. simplify the income tax system, optimize the GST/HST (as in europe) tax, upgrade transportation infrastructure (public transportation is a must, our systems are 20 years behind other countries), yet we have money to spend on Olympics. 

lucky i'm living in today's time. I wouldn't want to be dealing with the issues 100 years from now. 

sorry, that's my rant.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

The statistics you have posted are several yrs off from where we sit today(5 yrs to be exact).Personally, stats mean nothing to me when you are "street side" witnessing crimes happening "day in & day out" and then addressing them when the time is right.A couple questions for you, have you ever been a victim of a crime yourself? not someone you know or have known? Have you ever attended court or participated either as a civilan or witness? Have you ever worked with social assistance personal, judges,law enforcement personnel,or correctional staff to name a few? The comparison between the United States and Canada is a whole other story , to many factors involved here to list.

I will agree with your comments regarding the media, as they have their own "hidden agenda" to accomplish their goals.As for politicians, i will leave you with this...one day they can be your friend,the next an enemy.



dZilla said:


> Lord, most if not all crimes have been going down for the last 25 years.... That is a fact.
> 
> Now someone is going to say show me some stats.
> 
> ...


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Care to elaborate on this comment a bit ? 


[QUOTE=darb, probably those same people who are opposed to registering their long guns ....


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## dZilla (Dec 30, 2010)

Luke78 said:


> The statistics you have posted are several yrs off from where we sit today(5 yrs to be exact).Personally, stats mean nothing to me when you are "street side" witnessing crimes happening "day in & day out" and then addressing them when the time is right.A couple questions for you, have you ever been a victim of a crime yourself? not someone you know or have known? Have you ever attended court or participated either as a civilan or witness? Have you ever worked with social assistance personal, judges,law enforcement personnel,or correctional staff to name a few? The comparison between the United States and Canada is a whole other story , to many factors involved here to list.
> 
> I will agree with your comments regarding the media, as they have their own "hidden agenda" to accomplish their goals.As for politicians, i will leave you with this...one day they can be your friend,the next an enemy.


I'm not here to say crime isn't happening.

But "street-side" or not they aren't happening as frequently as they were happening say 10-15 years ago... That's just a fact unless there is a HUGE portion of unreported crimes that would throw those statistics off wack then I doubt it. Stats show there are lots of unreported crimes as well, but nothing to change the the argument that crime is on the decline.....And that was exactly what (former) PM Harper even said, "They were building more prisons, based on statistically information of "unreported crimes"... (That is not a word for word quote but it was along those lines).

I am stating that crime is on the decline. A person is safer now (today) then say they were 25 years ago. Almost all crime across the country is on the decline (sure there will be 'oddities' in there but thats what they are oddities).

To answer your questions:

I have been a victim of crime.
I have attended court.
I have worked with some of those individuals you've named.

I am as jaded as most when it comes to people that commit crimes but the facts remain crime rates are on a decline.

Finally my statistics were 5 years off, but that was just some quick google search in statscanada website, I can find something more up to date if you like, but I don't think it would change your mind. Lets not kid ourselves, 5 years isn't a long time ago, and I don't think you would've said any different 5 years ago, as you do now.


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think the biggest problem we have up here is our revolving door system. If a person has been previously charged for say rape or assault then why the hell do we parole them. Too often we hear of some guy that committed an offence and is being charged for it when he has already been charged for the same type of offence in the past.

The other problem we face here in BC mainly the DTES is the fact that a very high majority of the people the police are dealing with are mentally ill. Riverview should have never been mostly shut down. These people who are mentally ill and on the streets are turning to the street drugs to escape the twisted reality that they do live in. Some of these people don't belong on the streets, they belong in an insitution so they can be helped to deal with thier problems.

Another thing that has been stated already is that instead of punishing the drug addicts get them help. It would save the taxpayers major money if we tried to put the addicts through rehab and get them some help.

It's not like we live in a crime riddled country especially if you compare us to the states. I still feel comfortable walking the streets at night.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

I am going to throw out a stat that was in the newspaper yesterday just for some more discussion as I think it might help people understand the issue bette. It has been said that crime has fallen in the last 10 years, that is true, it has, however if you look at crime now compared to 50 years ago, crime has risen 500%. So to quote that crime is less now than in the past, it will depend on how far back you look. When I found that out I was surprised, but not really surprised. Those figures were per capita to not actual number of crimes.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

taureandragon76 said:


> Another thing that has been stated already is that instead of punishing the drug addicts get them help. It would save the taxpayers major money if we tried to put the addicts through rehab and get them some help.


I think this is an easy answer, but a harder reality. My wife and I did work for about 3-4 years with people who were in recovery houses. The sad part about it was you would see the same people there every 6 months or so and only a small percent of the people would actually stay clean. The recovery house we worked with had a way higher percent success rate than most other recovery houses also (It was the highest success rate in the country at like 30%). This was a five years ago, but I am sure not to much has changed.

I don't think the drug addicts are punished much if any, just the supplier.

I am not saying I have a better answer, just sharing my experience!


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## dZilla (Dec 30, 2010)

cpool said:


> I am going to throw out a stat that was in the newspaper yesterday just for some more discussion as I think it might help people understand the issue bette. It has been said that crime has fallen in the last 10 years, that is true, it has, however if you look at crime now compared to 50 years ago, crime has risen 500%. So to quote that crime is less now than in the past, it will depend on how far back you look. When I found that out I was surprised, but not really surprised. Those figures were per capita to not actual number of crimes.


Please show me where this is stated... and from where? Becasue I can show you number of peer reviewed studies that show crime is on the decline


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## dZilla (Dec 30, 2010)

taureandragon76 said:


> I think the biggest problem we have up here is our revolving door system. If a person has been previously charged for say rape or assault then why the hell do we parole them. Too often we hear of some guy that committed an offence and is being charged for it when he has already been charged for the same type of offence in the past.
> 
> The other problem we face here in BC mainly the DTES is the fact that a very high majority of the people the police are dealing with are mentally ill. Riverview should have never been mostly shut down. These people who are mentally ill and on the streets are turning to the street drugs to escape the twisted reality that they do live in. Some of these people don't belong on the streets, they belong in an insitution so they can be helped to deal with thier problems.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately there is a recidivism rate, but the majority of people that commit crimes don't commit them again. There is a small percentage of the 'crime population' that does the the majority of the crimes.


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

Well here is an interesting case, and lets see how our courts react, as Im interested in seeing how our judicial system does on the Laura Szendrei case The girl murdered in North Delta! _Im very good friends of the family and want to see how a young boy who was 17 at the time of the murder premeditating that he was going to commit the crime before his birthday as there was a diary stating all this stuff,_ now how will the courts react?


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

dZilla It was in the province news paper yesterday, he said where he got his stats from but I can't remember. I don't have the copy with me as I was at a restuarant when I read the stat. That is what lead me to bring this up for conversation. It was an opinion peice. That is as much info as I have for it. I wish i had the article.


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## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

AWW said:


> I think the first step should be the struggling homelessness problem we have in our Canadian cities. They are a large portion of the hardcore drug addicted people. If you give these people a helping hand, then a significant amount of money will not wind its way to the dealers.
> 
> As my socials teacher said, if some one approaches you on the street, homeless, saying he is hungry go buy him/her food! putting money in there hand, can be fueling their addiction, and that is helping no one.
> 
> As for alcohol abuse, I believe people should take a stand against government liquor stores. Government programs like this do fund many things, it actually lowers the price on alcohal. There is no competition for prices between local store, so prices stay low. I think with the combined effort of more expensive product, and the help of people with addiction issues, crime would go down significantly.


LOL lets raise the prices of liquer to prevent alcohol abuse!!! hahahahaha. Jesus, that will really take away from their food money and a higher crime rate to pay for the booze and take away from the working man who wants to have a beer.

Seriously i'm a little frustrated at that comment.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

darb said:


> If that freak Stephen Harper ever gets a majority government he will destroy everything that Canadians have fought for and built over the last 143 years.


Wow, really, please explain how that freak will destroy everything that Canadians have fought for and built over the last 143 years?


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

cpool said:


> however if you look at crime now compared to 50 years ago, crime has risen 500%.


 I would be interested in more details on that. I doesnt sound credible. (Not saying it isnt, just doesnt sound right.)


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

After some searching I found the article I read yesterday here it is:

Guest column: All Canadians must be given their say in debate on crime


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey, the guy who wrote the article is on CKNW right now and it is pretty interesting. If you want to listen to it (he states where he gets all fo this fact from) you can go to thier website and go to audio vault and startit at 9 today. This should answer all the questions as to whether his facts are good or not.


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## dZilla (Dec 30, 2010)

cpool said:


> Hey, the guy who wrote the article is on CKNW right now and it is pretty interesting. If you want to listen to it (he states where he gets all fo this fact from) you can go to thier website and go to audio vault and startit at 9 today. This should answer all the questions as to whether his facts are good or not.


Well the main issue I have is he is basing his 'statistics' on unreported crime. I am using statistics that can be verified and valued. Given many statistics can me skewed and used in different manners, but these are statistics that are across the board in a number of different countries.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

I think it was you who first started to quote statistics from Stats Canada that the crime rate was going down. Quoting stats didn't seem to be an issue for you then, given that they can be skewed to say what you want. I think that was my pont when I said that crime had gone up 500% from 30 years ago, but yes it is down in the last 10-15 years. To me that is using stats in an unfair way. It is like telling half the truth, not the whole truth.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Also I don't think his stats are based on only unreported crimes, here is an exert from the article:


"Let's review the facts: Are crime rates declining in Canada? The last 10 years of StatsCan data do reflect a national decline in violent crime. But criminologists should not focus on this recent record while ignoring enormous increases over the past half-century.

In 1962, Canadians reported 221 violent crimes per 100,000 people. This figure doubled by 1970 to 480, increased to 636 by 1980 and finally peaked at 1,084 in 1992 a 500-per-cent increase in 30 years."

That is taken right from the article. Seems like he is using reported crime to me.


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## big_bubba_B (Apr 25, 2010)

i know this isent topic , but realy with growing population in citys especialy big money ones like fort mac and vancouver . calgary, edmonton and such . so no use complaining what wont ever change . The big issue i think is with the health care . we wait 8-10 hours in hospitals . wait up to 6 months or longer for an mri . then another year for surgen . people are dying wating in halways in hospitals , u read how people are sent home with stomache pains and there appendics burst .... This is the true crime in canada , we pay out are behind with taxes and other expenses . and yet they are cutting off resorses for us . so they can go meet with some guy in some country . or give themselves in the government a pay increase .


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## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

I agree with the waits Bubba, but it's not the fault of the hospitals, it's the faults of everyday people abusing the Universal Health Care. People have a minor pain or a kid gets the sniffles and they go to emergency instead of a walk in. 

I had a ripped quadricep and waiting for 8 hours to get into a bed, by then the blood solidified and they couldn't drain my knee causing permanent damage. You know who was in front of me?? two kids with sniffles, a soccer player that fell on his back and it was sore and a kid with a fly stuck in his nose. 

If everyone had to pay per visit people they would not be plogging up the emergency room. I seen over 10 seniors come in because they had gas or pains in their chests act like they were dieing and were absolutely fine and left the next morning.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

donjuan_corn said:


> If everyone had to pay per visit people they would not be plogging up the emergency room.


 It snt as simple as that. Paying per visit means poor people are less likely to use the services, and many will not go until absolutely neccessary, in some cases causing an overall increase in costs in the long run. There certainly are problems with misuse of the system, but there is no easy solution to this. If you want healthcare for the rich only then pay per visit is one way to go, but that isnt the Canada I want to live in.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Thread officially hi-jacked!


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## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

TomC said:


> It snt as simple as that. Paying per visit means poor people are less likely to use the services, and many will not go until absolutely neccessary, in some cases causing an overall increase in costs in the long run. There certainly are problems with misuse of the system, but there is no easy solution to this. If you want healthcare for the rich only then pay per visit is one way to go, but that isnt the Canada I want to live in.


You make a valid point, but I am talking emergency room, not visiting the doctor to make myself clear. What about this, if you go to the Emergency room the person at the front should be able to re-direct people that can wait until tomorrow to visit a walk in?


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

cpool said:


> Thread officially hi-jacked!


 I agree, it sure looks that way


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## Grete_J (Oct 5, 2010)

donjuan_corn said:


> You make a valid point, but I am talking emergency room, not visiting the doctor to make myself clear. What about this, if you go to the Emergency room the person at the front should be able to re-direct people that can wait until tomorrow to visit a walk in?


Umm... that's not exactly how Canada's HC system works. Denying someone the right to public health care?

If everyone in front of you was suffering from gsw's or in cardiac arrest, would you want the triage nurse to refer you to a walk in clinic? The triage nurse is there determine the most severe cases and place them in order on a priority basis. With that, there is always human error due to miscommunication. Maybe the soccer player's injury was more severe... I mean, unknown spinal damage is looked at as far more severe than a mere ripped quadricep....


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

donjuan_corn said:


> You make a valid point, but I am talking emergency room, not visiting the doctor to make myself clear. What about this, if you go to the Emergency room the person at the front should be able to re-direct people that can wait until tomorrow to visit a walk in?


 I alway have thought there were two parts to dealing with that problem. Firstly, do a better job of organizing and providing proper family doctors. And secondly, put walk in clinics beside the larger emergency rooms.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

cpool said:


> Thread officially hi-jacked!


 Sorry about that. But then again, isnt hi-jacking a crime?


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

ahaha cpool, i think your fighting a loosing battle. i just want to put a little say into this hospital issue. 

I think the main issue, is actually the clinics. I have had my fair share of time in the hospital (3 broken bones) because i play sports and I am a kid. And every time i have gone through the emergency. When i snapped my lower right arm in two, i had to wait overnight for surgery. I had no problem with this at the time. My sister had been in and out of surgery as an infint because when she was born, her skull was already fused together, giving her brain no room to grow. She is a miricle child, and childrens hospital does great work. When you get seen at the hospital, I am pretty sure we can all agree, 99% of the time, they sucseed in helping you. And, you walk out feeling much better than you did walking in. 

Now, with clinics, Is where i have a bone to pick. I hate hospitals, so unless i really do need to go there, the clinic is the first stop. One time, i was bitten by a piharranh at work, and i went across the street to our local clinic to get stitched up. I arrived out side there door at around 5:15, and they were open untill 6. The doors were shut, and they were done for the day. We went down to another clinic, and they were open. We talked to the docters inside about it, and what they said baffled my mind. 

Docters when working in the clinic, only had to see a set number of patients every day before they had to leave. And sometimes, that is what they do, they just leave! The clinic system is the little sister to hospitals, the the rules sourounding them are much to lax. I think if we can improve these facilities, not just the hospitals, then we will see shorter wait periods at the hospital. 

NOW, Back on topic


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Darb, I am still waiting to hear how the "freak" will single handedly ruin this country, I am really interesting in how this will happen.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

cpool said:


> Darb, I am still waiting to hear how the "freak" will single handedly ruin this country, I am really interesting in how this will happen.


 I wouldnt be as extreme as Darb, or put it in those words, but a Harper majority really does scare me. His reputation for mean spiritedness is well deserved. I think he wants to be more like the states. He certainly acts and speaks like a wannabe president.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Cpool,

Iam with you on this comment, and the previous one i quoted him on.



cpool said:


> Darb, I am still waiting to hear how the "freak" will single handedly ruin this country, I am really interesting in how this will happen.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

You must be "naive" with some of these comments , or stuck reading/researching too many stats.So if you do your homework, you should realize that each individual province does not have complete infrastructure/resources to deal with crime or related issues(ie: courts/judge& court staff/sherriffs/facilities to house inmates to list a few).There arent even enough law enforcement personnel for the growing population at hand and retiring staff coming off their posts.

From a law enforcement perspective, you have to be sitting in the role call/briefing room alongside all these constables throughout the cities and to hear about the half dozen or more individuals/ parties they are on the lookout day in and day out ? Crimes DO occur every day, no paper/tv/internet will ever keep up with it.Some will not make news, while others will.Theres a reason why the media doesnt get all the details at once, theres a pending investigation for each them.They dont want to compromise that.As for 5 yrs not being long enough ? i beg to differ with you on that.There is a difference, and no i dont want to see more current stats.If it makes you feel better go ahead then.



dZilla said:


> I'm not here to say crime isn't happening.
> 
> But "street-side" or not they aren't happening as frequently as they were happening say 10-15 years ago... That's just a fact unless there is a HUGE portion of unreported crimes that would throw those statistics off wack then I doubt it. Stats show there are lots of unreported crimes as well, but nothing to change the the argument that crime is on the decline.....And that was exactly what (former) PM Harper even said, "They were building more prisons, based on statistically information of "unreported crimes"... (That is not a word for word quote but it was along those lines).
> 
> ...


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

TomC said:


> I wouldnt be as extreme as Darb, or put it in those words, but a Harper majority really does scare me. His reputation for mean spiritedness is well deserved. I think he wants to be more like the states. He certainly acts and speaks like a wannabe president.


I think all most politicians are mean spirited, have you seen news coverage on time at the house of commons? Doesn't seem like a nice one in the bunch. What would he do to make Canada more like the states? I am curious as I hear all these people being scared of Harper but with no reasons or evidence for it anyway.

Personally Jack Layton scares me, if he was PM I think this country would be bankrupt in a few short years, but I think his job is pretty easy, All promises and he never has to worry about finding a way to pay for anything because he will never be prime minister.


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## dZilla (Dec 30, 2010)

Luke78 said:


> You must be "naive" with some of these comments , or stuck reading/researching too many stats.So if you do your homework, you should realize that each individual province does not have complete infrastructure/resources to deal with crime or related issues(ie: courts/judge& court staff/sherriffs/facilities to house inmates to list a few).There arent even enough law enforcement personnel for the growing population at hand and retiring staff coming off their posts.
> 
> From a law enforcement perspective, you have to be sitting in the role call/briefing room alongside all these constables throughout the cities and to hear about the half dozen or more individuals/ parties they are on the lookout day in and day out ? Crimes DO occur every day, no paper/tv/internet will ever keep up with it.Some will not make news, while others will.Theres a reason why the media doesnt get all the details at once, theres a pending investigation for each them.They dont want to compromise that.As for 5 yrs not being long enough ? i beg to differ with you on that.There is a difference, and no i dont want to see more current stats.If it makes you feel better go ahead then.


Errr I don't think I ever said crime isn't happening...

If fear mongering and thinking you are unsafe and more subject to being a victim of crime now a days then you were "10-15 years ago" then so be it. What could I bring to you to indicate that there is a decrease in crime? Anyways, I wanted to discuss, not to 'call names' back and forth. So if reading and researching things makes me 'naive' then so be it.


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## stingraylord (Jun 18, 2010)

cpool said:


> Hey guys, I am just going to open this up for a responce and I will stay out of the discussion (others than maybe probing for more details or asking a further questions) Do you think there is a crime problem in Canada? It is an election issue, and I want to know what people think. Is it worth spending more money to house more criminals?


IMO

Yes, there is a crime problem in Canada!
Yes we should spend more money to keep them there!
I won't go into anymore detail but I know what I am talking about as I work in a jail!

Does anybody else know what they are talking about?  Probably not, unless you too are working in the CSC!:bigsmile:


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

cpool said:


> I think all most politicians are mean spirited, have you seen news coverage on time at the house of commons? Doesn't seem like a nice one in the bunch. What would he do to make Canada more like the states? I am curious as I hear all these people being scared of Harper but with no reasons or evidence for it anyway.
> 
> Personally Jack Layton scares me, if he was PM I think this country would be bankrupt in a few short years, but I think his job is pretty easy, All promises and he never has to worry about finding a way to pay for anything because he will never be prime minister.


Scariest thing for me is a coalition government, I know alot of you support the idea on here, but I do not in its current form, whether its conservative or liberals who are leading it. Its not that I have a problem with coalition governments, its the fact that the Bloc part of the coalitions sole existince is to seperate from the country, and look out for their own province, does not seem very Canadian, nor democratic to me. We have a NATIONAL party whose purpose is to break up Canada, and get sweet deals, where would we be if every province decided to vote in such a party for their own well being? Any power going to these people scare me, National parties in government should be for all of Canada, not just parts and I would never agree with a coalition including such a party.

As for crime in Canada, I believe in this day and age crime is too hard to track to get any good comparison. Crime being committed today is far different that crime being committed 20 years ago, in the digital age much crime goes unreported, I don't have statistics on this, but its something that I feel having worked in the IT sector, you don't quite realize the extent of cyber crime today, now how far it can reach into peoples lives, yet for the most part police can do nothing about it. I would be curious to see crime broken into different catagories, I think you would see violent crimes decreasing, but minor crimes increasing, just my opinion.


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

Well...living in the "crime capital of canada".... I have lots to say but I don't know solutions. I know that community gardens and programs like Good Food Box eases poverty. I even take part in the good food box program and it helps keep fresh veg in my fridge. Poverty leads to crime. My own cousin is involved in gang related activity here. I blame the poverty he grew up in. If jails are going to continue to bring inmates in, there needs to be programs to rehabilitate and give people skills and jobs. Even within the jails, if inmates can make things to sell to fund the needs of the jail, it takes strain off the system to provide funding in areas of drug rehab and housing. 

I know an ex addict who committed a crime out of desperation. This is a good person who grew up in a good home. This person only needed the necessary resources to dig out of the hole....but it took a few tries, and people believed this person could do it. It just takes persistance to lead people in the right direction. If only there were more jobs for community health workers, social workers, and addictions counsellors


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## big_bubba_B (Apr 25, 2010)

its not so much the penny crimes its the organized crime is the big problems . the bike gangs , moffias that are pretty much running it all , all we see is the petty dealers and the users , on the streats and what not . I have no sympathy for users for taking the easy way out , or doing crimes to pay for there addiction . was there choice to use so pay the penalty . for those who want rehabilitation and wanna get a better life good for them but people who are in and out . all the time . sorry but you had your chance and i dont beleave should waste anymore money on them . Also for the sadistick crimes people do i beleave they should bring back capital punishment and fry or inject those who do these acts . they are no good to society and will not be rehabiitated . why pay for them to sit in jail and get an education and what not when that money can be used to feed a homeless person or clothe a needy child .


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

I see crimes connected to the drug world as the biggest single problem. Many think legalization is the solution, but that may just mean trading one problem for another, possibly larger one. Whatever your views on how to do it, breaking the drug culture may be what is needed.


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## couch (Apr 22, 2010)

Didn't you hear that the Harper was building more prisons due to the increase in "unreported" crime. Needless to say the CBC had fun with that one.

Rich


dZilla said:


> Lord, most if not all crimes have been going down for the last 25 years.... That is a fact.
> 
> Now someone is going to say show me some stats.
> 
> ...


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## Sandy Landau (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree with Tom C.


TomC said:


> Every dollar spent on social issues such as drug and alcohol abuse, education, and housing is worth several spent on prisons.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

cpool said:


> Darb, I am still waiting to hear how the "freak" will single handedly ruin this country, I am really interesting in how this will happen.


Well I guess we will see now if Harper ("freak") will single handedly ruin Canada! I am not sure what that will even meant, but I highly doubt that your worst fears will come true. I guess time will tell.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

if your rich and/or dont care about environmental issues... you will like the harper government... voting for him is like selling your childrens health for a tax cut.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

Mferko said:


> if your rich and/or dont care about environmental issues... you will like the harper government... voting for him is like selling your childrens health for a tax cut.


 I agree. Scary times ahead.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

Let's see...we have a government in power who forged documents and then bald faced lied in Parliament, who opposes public health care, and who basically seems to think that they can stifle any dissent and do whatsoever the hell they want, like ignoring or firing "independent" nuclear safety commisioners (Linda Keen) who disagree with them, or wilfully proroguing Parliament to avoid dealing with issues. 

We have a government who has cut taxes for big business to the bone at the expense of middle class families. This is "free money" that is not generating new jobs - it's going to bonuses for bankers and execs, while they offshore Canadian jobs and export raw logs.

We have a government who does nothing about the issue of climate change (the tornados and storms in the US right now are a result of this...you can expect more violent and frequent storms as things warm up). 

We have a government who is led by a fundamentalist Christian and backed by some of the most repressive and rabid organizations of the "family values" crowd. Religion has NO place in politics.

Yeah, colour me scared. At least with the NDP, the interests of regular people are more likely to be protected and we won't be living in a fascist state. Focusing only on the economy ignores the fact the people have to be able to live in it to make it work.

Harper's vision of Canada is not the Canada I want to live in, nor one that I would want my children or niece to inherit.

Personally, I'd like to see the entire electoral process overhauled so that everyone's vote actually counts. (STV, anyone)? I'd like to see all donations except those from individuals banned entirely, and those capped at $500. Take business/union/religious donations right out of the equation.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

Elle said:


> Let's see...we have a government in power who forged documents and then bald faced lied in Parliament, who opposes public health care, and who basically seems to think that they can stifle any dissent and do whatsoever the hell they want, like ignoring or firing "independent" nuclear safety commisioners (Linda Keen) who disagree with them, or wilfully proroguing Parliament to avoid dealing with issues.
> 
> We have a government who has cut taxes for big business to the bone at the expense of middle class families. This is "free money" that is not generating new jobs - it's going to bonuses for bankers and execs, while they offshore Canadian jobs and export raw logs.
> 
> ...


 Hey, nobodys perfect.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

Elle said:


> Let's see...we have a government in power who forged documents and then bald faced lied in Parliament, who opposes public health care, and who basically seems to think that they can stifle any dissent and do whatsoever the hell they want, like ignoring or firing "independent" nuclear safety commisioners (Linda Keen) who disagree with them, or wilfully proroguing Parliament to avoid dealing with issues.
> 
> We have a government who has cut taxes for big business to the bone at the expense of middle class families. This is "free money" that is not generating new jobs - it's going to bonuses for bankers and execs, while they offshore Canadian jobs and export raw logs.
> 
> ...


exactly, not to mention running attack adds for the last 2 years so that the first thing u think of when u here ignatief is "hes not good for canada, hes from the states..." that, combined with jack layton being a great leader the votes on the left got split and the cons got more seats with less votes 

has anyone even read harpers papers that he wrote in university about how he thinks alberta should split off from canada and join the united states because he loves them so much??

and u cant expect the fundamentalist bible bangers to care about the environment since in their minds theyre just going to be raptured off to heaven when the world ends anyways, no big deal.

ugh, I feel happy the NDP did so well but its overshadowed by the fact the cons did even better as a result


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## punchbuggy (Apr 21, 2010)

he is too smart. ive said it before. He will not risk future majorities for the sake of meat to his right wing core. He wants to be the NEW natural governing party. The liberals arent dead... yet. If he starts listening to his base, he will put what he did this election at risk. he will keep everyone on a tight leash and hold on to power.


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

The fear mongering going on in this thread rivals Harpers election plan, yeesh, can we not give the new government a few weeks first? Some of the comments are down right outrageous.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

summit said:


> The fear mongering going on in this thread rivals Harpers election plan, yeesh, can we not give the new government a few weeks first? Some of the comments are down right outrageous.


 I sincerely hope I am wrong and he surprizes me, but his past behaviour tells me otherwise. Time will tell.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

If what's on this thread is fear mongering, what do you call the Conservative attack ads that have been running nonstop for the past several months?

While I can't speak for anyone else's posts, what I posted about Harper's government is not fear mongering, it's documented fact. We've had 7 years of him in a minority, and so far it hasn't been very pretty. I'm not holding my breath that things will improve now that he has a majority. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt if I didn't feel that he's already shown his true colours.


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## darb (Apr 21, 2010)

cpool said:


> Well I guess we will see now if Harper ("freak") will single handedly ruin Canada! I am not sure what that will even meant, but I highly doubt that your worst fears will come true. I guess time will tell.


Wait and wait all you want!

The Harper that we have all seen for the past several years has been a restrained Harper, now the true Stephen Harper with his majority government will emerge from the facade that he hid behind before.

Get ready for a huge move towards bringing Canada inline with the great US of A, a country that is practically bankrupt. Say goodbye to universal healthcare, welcome more fear mongering such as his crime bills and more prisons when crime is actually on the decrease (check the NewWest crime stats among others that were released today), more active support towards the military actions of the most hated country in the world, the USA, say bye bye to the gun registry because all of the gun touting ******** don't feel that they should have to fill out a form to own an weapon that can kill at long distances and without warning, probably say goodbye to funded abortions, say goodbye to tendered contracts for billion dollar military hardware in order to make back room deals with USA corporations, say goodbye to an open government because the Conservatives control the media very closely, say goodbye to working with any other parties because they certainly couldn't do it before at a committee level and it will just get worse.

And I could go on and on ....... Harper is a freak because he lies, has a hidden agenda that is intent on destroying Canada.

Say goodbye to a Canada that generations of Canadians have worked and died to create, our country will be significantly different in 4 years.

IMHO many people that voted for Harper fail to recognize the bigger picture and were misled by him or are just self serving individuals that care little about other than themselves which isn't what Canada was built upon.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

AWW said:


> if some one approaches you on the street, homeless, saying he is hungry go buy him/her food! putting money in there hand, can be fueling their addiction, and that is helping no one.


I've done this many times. I almost never give money, although I was tempted in San Fran by one guy with a sign that said "Need $$ for beer!" I think he gets a lot of $$ just for being honest.

When I tutored D/T, I used to pass one guy who panhandled on the median near Science World. Every time I went by, I would toss him some bananas, fruit, drinks or something. He was always very polite and seemed like a nice guy.

On the subject of crime, my view is that Canadian judges are far too bleeding heart types to give criminals stiff sentences when they are deserved. Like that guy from Kamloops who killed his three kids just to get back at his ex-wife and is now free to apply for day passes. What kind of crock is that? In many other countries, he would never see the light of day again.

My personal opinion is that we survey the judgements of our judges and see who are the most bleeding heart softies. We then pay for big mansions with tax-payer money and allow the judges to live there for free with their families. The only thing I ask is that every murderer, rapist, child molestor that they let off with a light or suspended sentence must live with those bleeding heart judges & their families.

If they think these criminals are safe to release back into society, then let the same criminals live with their bum buddy judges and see how that works out.

End of rant.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

darb said:


> Wait and wait all you want!
> 
> The Harper that we have all seen for the past several years has been a restrained Harper, now the true Stephen Harper with his majority government will emerge from the facade that he hid behind before.
> 
> ...


I think you forgot to mention he was going to start killing babies and old people! (As a Conservative I know that is his hidden agenda, we have been keeping it quiet till we got a majority, but I guess now we can finally bring it out in the open as it no longer has to be a hidden agenda)

Good point on the gun regestry though, I am 100% certain that it will be gone, and it is about time. I was talking with my red neck friends last night over a bud lite, while watching NASCAR, and we were just saying how it would be so much more conveinent to shoot people from long distances if we didn't first have to register our guns, and how we hadn't shot anyone yet becasue we registered our guns.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

I have yet to see one instance where the long gun registry has prevented or solved one gun related crime .. It has been a tremendously expensive and useless exercise. The billion plus wasted on it would have been far better spent in many other places. Handguns still remain registered and severely restricted; as well as licensing gun owners . That has not and will not change. No policeman in his right mind would enter a residence on a raid without assuming the resident is armed, whether there are any guns registered to that address or person of interest or not .

There is a lot about Harper and the Conservatives that I don't like , but also I have the same to say about the other parties too. I must admit , I'm glad he's bringing in some sense by eliminating that useless registry that was brought in originally strictly to buy urban votes from people who only see guns used in "shoot 'em up bang bang" movies and news broadcasts where illegal and in many cases banned firearms are used in urban gang warfare or robberies.. No amount of registries will stop those.

I will be glad if they start jailing a lot more of the thieves and violent individuals that are now going through our revolving door courts. We have a lot of sociologists and other ones who claim jailing these scum doesn't help and costs us .. I have news for them .. It costs us much more to have them on the street repeatedly committing thefts and violence. The costs to the victims are very high. Nobody is ever fully compensated for their losses , but it looks good on the lawyers books for defending the perps and getting them released to hire them again ( too often at our expense again). Jail , with a program that those that want help to change can get the training needed to do so is , in the long run , a lot less expensive way to go than letting them roam the streets. It does keep police, lawyers and judges employed though if we let perps go with a slap on the wrist


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## Clownloachlover (Apr 21, 2010)

Bring Back Capital Punishment...


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

Elle said:


> If what's on this thread is fear mongering, what do you call the Conservative attack ads that have been running nonstop for the past several months?


Well... its fear mongering, which is why I made the comment that "The fear mongering going on in this thread *rivals Harpers election plan*"

I would go more into your post to point out how there is fear mongering going on in it, and the irony of it, but to be honest I am on here to talk fish, not argue politics, in the end its a waste of time, so I won't be posting anymore in here as it was a mistake to begin with. I will leave you with the definition of fear mongering as per wiki to give it a good honest unbiased look for yourself, as well as only one single example where you describe them as facsist, but thats documented fact right?

Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle.


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## Clownloachlover (Apr 21, 2010)

George Bush ran his entire presidential campaign and terms in office based on fear mongering and the fact that he convinced the 330 million residents of his country that their whole world would be turned upside down if they did not deal with terrorism at the world level...look at their economy now! The fact remains they should have dealt with the issues on their own soil before ever heading overseas trying to convince people that their brand of democracy is thee "only way"


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