# Help with frags dying off



## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Having an issue with this tank like no other I have had in my 12 or so years of fish keeping,Im at a total loss.

Symptoms
-coraline grows as purple until it hits about 1/4'' diameter then turns to white and dies,also doesnt seem to grow as fast as it should. Coraline introduced on frags dies entirelly within a couple weeks
-ALL sps introduced into the tank STN's from the bottom up,kills frags within 2 weeks. Tissue doesnt peel,skeleton visible. Some frags recover and heal only to start to die off again from the base up a week or so later a couple have been doing this over a month. One a monti entirelly healed. All zoa's/pallies growing fast as is my kenya tree
-KH constantly reading 12 though my mix tests at 10 and top off around 8-10

Params are;
-salinity 1.024
-calcium 430
-magnesium 1250
-ph 8-8.2
-temp 78-79
-phosphates undetectable
-nitrate undetectable
-KH 12
3 2'' fish 45g
skimmer
3'' dsb

Though the KH is on the higher end everything seems close enough to perfect/balanced. I cant get my KH down I do 15%WC once a week and dont dose anything aside from this week I started dosing calcium/magnesium but the problem is pre existing. No algae,dino's,diatoms or cyano. I stopped running GAC and GFO a bit over a week ago with no change to params or issue because I thought maybe I was pulling too much out of the water. 
Ive never seen any bugs on the affected areas day or night but I have seen clear flatworms and tiny black bugs similar to acro red bugs a few weeks ago,they seem to be gone now but neither of those are thought to be coral killers nor were they present on damaged areas.
Im at a complete loss here the tds of all water used is 0

Im doing two things I've never tried before,im using dry rock and 72w cree led
Tank is about 6 months old,young but very stable...I took my time with this one 45g all params are tested with 2 different kits both read the same

A few things Im a little curious about
-infection
-temp fluctuation (heater comes on alot at night it gets cold in here) but its oversized and good quality so I assume it does the job,everytime I check the tank is 78-79
-phosphate leeching from dry rock
-lack of phytoplankton?

Any advice is apreciated


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## Chewie (Jul 21, 2010)

Are your lights dimmable? If so maybe turn them down a bit if you have them on full. I had issues of coraline whitening and some hard corals going "bad" when i switched over to led, I now run them at about 50% -60% and now everything is taking off like never before, and my leds are only bridgelux not cree.
Other than that Im at a loss..


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

my title got changed. (you spelled dying wrong by the way lmao) 

I know they say coraline doesnt like high light but my corals arent bleaching like too much light would cause....not to mention a frag Ive had for over a month super healthy just recentlly started doing it but was fine up until now,though the problem has been present since my first frag.
Colors are staying vibrant polyps are fully extended,they start to show skeleton around the base then it slowlly rises up the frag about 1/16th of an inch a day until the frag cant take it anymore and rtn's about the halfway mark. One of my frags actually colored up from being faded out by the lfs before it got it about 3 weeks later...it survived and is fully healed now.

Got an open mind though next sps frag I get I will keep the light dialed back a bit more,though I dont think thats the issue when I first setup I did push the light to the point where it did fade frags out so I know what that looks like. But I suppose its possible.............Im getting desperate I'll try anything at this point lol
I kept sps for years under some pretty high end lights never seen anything like this before that wasnt caused by low KH also never seen coraline do that without an abundance of phosphates....even in the shady areas the coraline is doing that so again Im thinking other than light

Just totally stumped


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

First off WT*is not permitted to use here (http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/aqua-lounge-7/crude-acronyms-28666/ & http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/problems-complaints-suggestions-48/inappropriate-language-31005/ ) SO you will find that has been changed too. Secondly, I just woke up so you'll have to excuse my simple spelling mistake lol 
Lastly it would be much appreciated and much more helpful if your title has more clarification than just "help!!"

Also "slowly" and "recently" only have 1 "L" lol So you know....when your typing and a word has a red line under it, that usually means something is wrong with that word, better known as spellcheck lol :bigsmile::lol:


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Just a joke man  
my apologies didnt realize an abreviation was against rules,wont happen again
also didnt realize thread titles were to conform to policy again wont happen...again



Diztrbd1 said:


> First off WT*is not permitted to use here (http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/aqua-lounge-7/crude-acronyms-28666/ & http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/problems-complaints-suggestions-48/inappropriate-language-31005/ ) SO you will find that has been changed too. Secondly, I just woke up so you'll have to excuse my simple spelling mistake lol
> Lastly it would be much appreciated and much more helpful if your title has more clarification than just "help!!"
> 
> Also "slowly" and "recently" only have 1 "L" lol So you know....when your typing and a word has a red line under it, that usually means something is wrong with that word, better known as spellcheck lol :bigsmile::lol:


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## ultreef (Apr 27, 2010)

Your alk is on the high side. 

What kind of test kits are you using?


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## juicebox (Jun 14, 2010)

I agree that your alk is high. Especially if your PO4 and NO3 are as low as your readings are showing -- there is abundant anecdotal evidence of higher alk causing tissue necrosis in low-nutrient systems.

Highly doubt temp swings are an issue. As far as pests, dip some frags and see what crawls out.

Your rodi top-off water runs 8-10dkh without dosing anything?

Your rock leaching phosphate is also a possibility.

Sent from my GT-I9100M using Tapatalk 2


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

I use api and salifert kits which read nearly identical funny enough,I even went to the lfs the other day for a third opinion lfs read KH 11.5. 
Top off is ph adjusted to 8.2 aside from that I dont dose anything. For sure the alk is high,not sure if its at a dangerous level at 12 but I would be much happier with 9.5-10....any ideas how to lower it? waters changes dont work it rises as fast as I can safely lower it if that makes sense. In past tanks it went down on its own pretty quick....this one it rises above the level in my mix and top off somehow?

Ive been wondering about phosphate leaching from the dry rock,I've read about others having that problem but I have 0 nuisance algae?. Could the dry rock be buffering my KH?

I think the key to this riddle is that my monti suffered from this to near death but healed itself and is now growing healthy while another month+ old frag just begun to suffer it. Frags will heal from it but will get it again a week later...and so on until they cant heal and succumb to it
Its almost like its caused by something intermitent,infection maybe,pest,maybe a KH/PH swing overnight? I wouldnt dare dose more KH to correct it if it did though so I guess first step is to solve the KH issue.

I ran out of dip on my last batch of frags Ill pick some up asap and see if anything crawls out as suggested...thanks

Does anyone reccomend a good multi pest treatment? how about something for sps infection? keep in mind this is only affecting SPS the few softies I have are growing like weeds.

Its never affected all frags at once either just one or two at a time...sry just came to me lol

Thanks for taking the time to help,any ideas please spit them out I dont care if your an expert reefer or not....thanks again everyone


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## ultreef (Apr 27, 2010)

Why do you buffer your top off water? Are you using rodi?

Use a low alk salt mix and it will slowly go down.


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

To match the PH to my tank/mix and yes I do. The PH of my source water is a little low if I dont, my tank unbuffered is a steady 8.1-8.2. Ill try a different mix,I seem to remember seeing a sticky somewhere about the specs of different salt mixes. Thanks



ultreef said:


> Why do you buffer your top off water? Are you using rodi?
> 
> Use a low alk salt mix and it will slowly go down.


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## juicebox (Jun 14, 2010)

Are you boosting your ph with baking soda? Check the alk level in your top-off water.

Sent from my GT-I9100M using Tapatalk 2


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## ultreef (Apr 27, 2010)

dabandit1 said:


> To match the PH to my tank/mix and yes I do. The PH of my source water is a little low if I dont, my tank unbuffered is a steady 8.1-8.2. Ill try a different mix,I seem to remember seeing a sticky somewhere about the specs of different salt mixes. Thanks


Do not buffer your top off water. There is no need. Your are only add a small amount through the day that its not even going to affect your tank's ph. Most ph buffer will up your alk, if not all. That's probably why you alk is so high. I keep saying to everyone. Don't go chasing the magic ph number. If you alk and ca are where they're suppose to be and you have a skimmer with good oxygen level inside your house, your ph will sit around 8ish.

Trying lowering your alk slowly. And feed a little bit more for now. Zero nitrate and Phos doesn't always mean a good thing. I keep my nitrate under 5ppm and Phos at 0.02.


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## JTang (Apr 21, 2010)

Sorry to hear that! Honestly Im lazy on water tests plus I don't have a good set of test kits. Yeah I know... Not a good idea. I don't recommend it. I try not to mess around with the chemistry too much. When I first started salty 2 yrs ago I was told by some reef pro (can't remember who...) that the salt mix will set the pH to the proper level so I didn't bother to adjust it. I wasn't dosing anything until the tank was 1 yr old. LPS n SPS grew very slow due to low calcium n kH level. I was at 330 n 5 at one point. That's when I started dosing calcium n carbonate. Last time I checked they were at 370 n 7. My nitrate has always been high - 20. Your numbers are way better than mine. Not sure why/ how your kH gets so high!? I doubt it is the light that's causing problem since u said u have the frags n light for some time unless u have recently adjusted the dials. 
Besides I don't know much about LED since I'm still using old tech like MH n PC. Lol. Hope they will do better soon...

BTW, I do 20% WC every 2-3 wks with Instant Ocean.


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

To anyone who may be experiencing something similar I decided to leave the kh alone at 12 as its balanced to my ca of 430. Pulled the canister gfo/gac and added 2 drops of iodine one week later problem solved remaining sps fully healed everything else growing way faster. Im guessing the carbon/gfo was removing something I wasnt testing for.

Big thanks to everyone who helped


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## Tn23 (Apr 21, 2010)

glad your corals are all good now. Time to share some pictures with us


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Pics just updated in my journal :bigsmile:....more soon


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## Chewie (Jul 21, 2010)

Just curious if you were using kent carbon, as there is a recall on some batches due to high copper and other heavy metals.


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Marineland black diamond premium carbon. Not sure if Kent makes marineland or not


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