# CRS and Vancouver Tap Water



## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

Hey everyone,

I want to take a bit of a survey here on the CRS keepers here in Vancouver. What kind of water do you use? Do you add any supplements, use partial or complete RO water, or just normal dechlorinated tap water? What are the parameters of your water? Are the CRS thriving and breeding? Any details that you guys can provide about your water and your routine when adding new water would be much appreciated. 

I'm looking into starting my own CRS tank, but I'm not sure what measures I'd need to take to have a thriving colony of my own.

Thanks


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I didn't use RO/DI, nor the Prime to dechlorinate\"decontaminate" the water. I did however ensure that my PH levels were lowered from the 7ish ph "out of tap" to around 6.5, and increased the kh and gh to around 4-5.

I bought mine from a very knowledgeable person on this forum. I believe he at this time works with one of our sponsors, Ebi-Ken. What he did for water changes was the drip method. I saw him hook up an airline, with an adjustable air valve, and put it to the bottom of a bucket, and have gravity feed the tank as a water change.

When I received them from him they were breeding profusely in my 10g prior to a heatwave during summer that killed that tank due to temperature swings from the ambient heat of the hot outside and the high powered AC unit in my small room.

Either way you cut it, you definitely need to buffer your water for fw dwarf shrimp for KH\GH, or you'll be facing an upward battle. The learning curve is already steep enough, so ensure you do this right off the get go, whether you can afford a filtration unit from your water pipeline or not.

You'll want to purchase a TDS meter, if you invest anymore than the equivalence in value of livestock (Verify yourself, but I think they can start as low as $15). Your total dissolved solids should be at a certain point, after that you definitely don't want to just keep topping off evaporated water if you're going to go that route.


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

I use the water coming out of my filtered fridge cartage. I tested the water with my TDS meter on both the water coming out from my fridge filter and the regular tap water. I actually found out the tap water is better lol ( only by a small amount). But they are all at acceptable level on TDS. I think the only thing is to let the water sit for 24 hours before you use it and don't use all the way to the bottom of the container.


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

My tap water seems to be around 7.5 ph in my tanks, even with driftwood added. I'm not sure how I'd go about buffering it down to 6.5 from there.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

You're obviously concerned about the PH level, which is a good thing to know. Although people on this forum have successfully bred dwarf shrimp with out of the tap ph levels from the Vancouver area (7-7.3 typically I think after degassing), I haven't succeeded in doing so myself.

If you are wanting long term success of having following generations continue forth (not that if they are properly acclimatized they won't die with a higher alkaline ph level, you *may* just face breeding issues), you'll want to have a substrate that is acidic.

ADA Aquasoil (I think I had Amazonia II) isn't a cheap substrate, but is perfectly acidic. It's commonly preferred by a lot of shrimp keepers whether they're newbs or experience for that reason, let alone being a good loose substrate for plants to grow in.

What kind of tank size are you looking at? I had one new bag (around $40) for my 15g.

The only issue beyond the initial and continued expense of the product with it "expiring" or becoming mud (where you would either top it off or have to completely replace it) is that you get a massive ammonia spike immediately until it's properly flushed and your tank is cycled.

This isn't the only route to go, I would just recommend it if your budget allows. It sounds like you're wanting a shrimp only\compatible tank, so it depends if you're going to go all out with high grade shrimp, and are anticipating that they'll breed, that this would definitely be a sound call.

Either way, I wouldn't worry about the ph so much as the GH\KH buffering of the water. My ph levels didn't kill the shrimp, but I know the buffering issues that I wasn't aware of at the time did.


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

In all honesty even after all my reading I still don't fully understand the whole ph gh kh and buffering and how everything is related. I hope that comes to me after a while. I just want to set up a nice 10 gallon tank and start it off with some nice, solid, ideal water parameters so there's less of a chance of things going wrong. When I started my first shrimp tank everything seemed to go wrong even though I researched months beforehand and they were just standard Neocaridinas. I don't want that to happen again, as it was heartbreaking. This would be a shrimp only tank.

I would definitely invest in Aquasoil, as I'd like to have a happy healthy colony for many generations and a bit of a start up investment would definitely be worth it. Would co2 help parameters at all? I've heard it lowers pH and I'd like to try my hand at an iwagumi style tank some day.

I've found that our tapwater really doesn't have much in the way of minerals or anything, so I add Seachem Equilibrium to my neo tank. I assumed that it would do the same as the fluval shrimp mineral supplement just cheaper. Am I right in assuming that?

If I were to set up a tank with just tapwater, ADA Aquasoil and Equilibrium to get the Kh/Gh right, and possibly co2, would that work out in theory? Am I misunderstanding how things work here?

Thanks for all of the well-thought out answers you've given me so far.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Equilibrium is a water buffer, but I believe it only raises GH (General Hardness) and not KH.

PH will raise with KH, so there is a direct correlation to this. KH does however prevent PH swings in itself so if you were to introduce co2 (which does make water more acidic), you'd likely have to increase the level of co2 being introduced as the KH buffering would minimize the PH being lowered to a certain extent as a result of this.

GH on the other hand doesn't have an effect on PH. Both KH\GH help with the osmotic respiration (I believe that's the term) of aquatic life. GH also helps invertebrates exoskeleton\shells which can make molting easier on them. I had shrimp deaths, which I found out after the fact were happening when they'd try to molt. That's an obviously a necessary but enduring process for them, so you want to minimize the effects it has for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a contributing factor with your previous shrimps deaths.

The only problem is, you'll need to learn from experience, even as much as you prepare yourself prior. It's a costly process. Keep doing as much research as you can just as you are. The only thing I can think of to say other than that right now is keep asking as many specific questions as you can about your concerns as they come to mind.

In the end, I nailed the water parameters bang on, and they were breeding profusely as a result of the changes I made. They were unexpectedly entertaining to watch, but they still managed to die and was due to temperature swings on the small tank. I gave up after that, so I can understand how frustrating and heartbreaking it can be. Keep doing what you're doing, and be prepared to change plans to adapt to what their needs are.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh, and even something as simple and as cheap as putting dried almond leaves in a tank can lower ph some (similarly to how driftwood should). It also has beneficial anti-bacteria\fungal properties on top of that. One of our mods named Ed showed me that.


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

The reason I bought the Equilibrium was because I found out about the death due to failed molts, but I think it was a combination of temps too high, unintentionally feeding them a food with copper, lack of Gh, and possibly toxins from anubias rhizomes and crypt melt, although I never got conclusive evidence on that. 

How would I go about increasing Kh?


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Budget was a huge factor for me even after I saved up enough I thought that would have give me a good chance of success, and I went all out as far I could even prior to purchasing the shrimp just for the equipment and additives itself. I purchase the shrimp from someone on the forum that is well respected, but that still wasn't enough due to my inexperience. I did however go to a LFS and find cheap crushed coral that raises KH. It could very well be missing minerals that help with the osmotic regulation, but it does provide the carbonates that are needed to increase KH.

I don't recall the KH\GH levels I had from the ADA soil, but I think it was still really low, like or 1-2 for at least one of them.

Adding baking soda and epsom salts is definitely the cheapest solution if you're in a bind, but with the current products available to hobbyists these days I wouldn't do it unless as I said you're in a bind, (need readily available products or are financially unable to purchase.


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

Assuming I take the time and save up and go all out for a higher chance of success, what products would be useful for buffering Kh? Coral? in a little filter bag in the filter? Although I'd planned on using sponge filters...

Thank you for taking the time to answer all of these (newbie) questions.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I used crushed coral for the tank. Having a powered filter would be more effective for the crushed coral, but I'm not able to say what alkaline additives you'd want to use. A sponge is definitely an safe way to have filtration, you definitely don't risk the chances of shrimplets getting sucked in, and they'll definitely feed off it for nutrients worst case scenario.


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

Hm, yeah, that's why I was going to go with sponge filters, cause I didn't want any babies getting sucked up. What would I do with the coral in that situation? Or is there something else I could use? Apparently I only need a Kh of 1-2.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I targeted more so for 4, but that's all I attempted after knowing about the issues and looking into it. Anything is better than the damn near 0 we have from Coquitlam or wherever our water sheds are.

It's unsightly, but even putting a layer on top of your substrate across the substrate would help. I still don't comprehend exactly how it all works, but from my understanding is that the the KH will only rise from bigger solids of carbonates (like crush coral or shells) in direct correlation to higher PH. I only took a couple of science classes in high school, but it's the bases vs. acids concept. It'll only balance out and cause it to be less acidic (lower the PH) and not beyond be unpredictable beyond that capacity. KH does increase PH mind you, but I added buffers after the fact not realizing the importance of it myself.


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

This is all so dreadfully complicated. I'd rather not have to put a layer over top of the substrate. 

After doing some reading, I've read some things that say a Kh of 0 is ideal. I'm terribly confused.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't understand why you'd benefit from non-testable low KH levels. Best case scenario I would expect is that my tank could experience PH crashes due to untestable levels of KH, especially complicating the situation further would be to add other acidic properties like substrate, crushed coral, driftwood or co2 after anticipating PH stability. I'm no expert with taking care of things, but I don't follow the logic with that.

I'm no expert as I stated, I just know what helped my shrimp out, and it wasn't a case of luck or coincidence. I had willing individuals specifically help me address the issues I encountered and the investigations I got not only from this forum, but many others.

Keep doing your research, I'm not about to say I'm an authority in the subject, just don't take ones' opinion, whether it's mine or others.


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

Maybe if I were to use DIY co2 with baking soda added like in this guide: DIY CO2 Guide with Pictures & Recipes - DIY Aquarium Projects - Aquatic Plant Central


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## Padded Wall (Jan 3, 2013)

after researching for a few days I found that ADA aquasoil and fluval shrimp/plant stratum are both supposed to buffer ph down to a good level for CRS, so I'm going to give that a shot in my next shrimp tank.


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