# 400 gallon build...going to Africa!!!



## tony1928

Hi everyone,

Here's an abridged version of my original build thread. I began with the Xmas 2009 purchase of Marius' 400 gallon Tenecor acrylic tank. It was in good shape with a couple of minor scratches which I will buff out. I would say it was in 7.5/10 condition. Not bad for a used acrylic. A beast of a tank, Marius helped me move it into my garage...where it had stayed for about 3 months. The dimensions are 96Lx36Dx27H and two predrilled corner overflows.










I originally was looking for a tubular steel stand but was unable to find someone to make one for me that was affordable. Thus I decided to build one for myself out of wood. It wasn't too hard to do if you could borrow the right tools.

This pile of wood:







Becomes this:









I put some plywood down on the top and on the bottom to form the base for all the filtration hardware. I was originally just going to paint the stand with a couple of coats of Kilz sealer but happened upon a cheap box of self adhesive lino. Easy to apply and handles spills easily. You can see the stuff in this pic of the stand:










The next big hurdle was to get a couple of guys to move the beast into the room. It was heavy, but not that bad...just awkward to get into some spots due to space limitations for turning, etc... Here it is in the room:










Now the hard part. All the plumbing has to be laid out and then glued together. Not having done plumbing before and with the fear of 400 gallons of water leaking, I was pretty paranoid about this part. I just decided to take things very slowly and take my time rather than rush. I've installed ball valves where I can to help isolate problems if I run into any and to help with servicing. For filtration, I decided to go with a custom made sump/wetdry filter. Patrick from Canadian Aquatics hooked me with up with a custom fabricator and he produced this 80 gallon acrylic wet dry sump:

















For the return line from the wet dry filter, it will be 1.5" PVC going through a two hot tub jet bulkheads. I had to drill a number of holes in the back of the tank using a diamond bit. The drilling wasn't hard to do, just somewhat time consuming in order to keep the holes nice and clean.
























To accomodate the drains from the overflows, I had to create a couple of cutouts for the plumbing that would clear the stand structure. 1.5" plumbing is pretty bulky and it was pretty tight in there. I've also included a couple of shots of the plumbing as well to give you an idea of what I'm trying to do.
























If you notice on the pics of the bulkheads, there are a few more than normal, that's because I'm going to be plumbing in my 2 FX5's that I'm currently running in my other tanks. This is to provide additional mechanical filtration. In fact, I'm just going to load those up to do only mechanical. The sump should easily take care of the bio needs of this tank.

to be cont....


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## beN

so when does this beauty get filled tony???


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## tony1928

ben_mbu said:


> so when does this beauty get filled tony???


Hi Ben, with any luck maybe in 2 weeks time I can do my first water test with the fully hooked up system.


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## 2wheelsx2

Awesome Tony! You got the thread going again. I have something to look forward to whenever I surf BCA.


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> Awesome Tony! You got the thread going again. I have something to look forward to whenever I surf BCA.


Haha, Gary, just because of that comment, I'll have to continue to post updates more frequently!


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## tony1928

Continued...

Since I've had fish, I've known my fair share of fish diseases. Ever since I've been running UV sterilizers, I haven't seen much in terms of disease at all. Therefore, I've invested in an Emperor Aquatics Smart UV sterilizer....40 watts. It's a big unit if you are wondering. I guess they make it for ponds and space limitations aren't such a concern. Here's the pic.










Basically, each end has a 1" barb fitting that accomodates a intake from a pump and then other side obviously a return, in my case, back to my sump. I thought about plumbing it inline with my main return pump but I didn't want to add more complexity to this project than already exists. So I went with a Quiet One 3000 pump which I already had lying around. I will need to throttle that back with a ball valve since it pushes like 700gph. The UV should only be doing about 200gph if you want to kill parasites, but 400gph to clarify water. With the ball valve, I should be able to control that. The Quiet One pump with push water up to a manifold I will be building that will have the ball valve, a Tee to connect to the intake of the UV sterilizer, and then one final tee to the intake of my reactor which will be full of Purigen. Pics of the reactor later. I've also included a couple of pics showing my main return pump and the overflow plumbing that will be draining into the sump.
























to be continued...


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Haha, Gary, just because of that comment, I'll have to continue to post updates more frequently!


You da man! Realistically, at this stage in my life, I've come to realize that I'll never be able to have a huge tank because I like variety too much, so the biggest I can go is a 240 8 footer, so guys like you doing 400 gallon tanks allow me to live vicariously through your eyes. Plus I'm not much of a DIY'er, so getting to see details of how people do things really interest me.


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## tony1928

To be honest, I would have never thought in my wildest dreams I would ever buy a tank of this size. Dunno why I decided to do it. It's kind of an evolution for me. Started with smaller fish, then they stopped being interesting to me...maybe I was getting bored. Then I went to big African cichlids, then to the bigger SA cichlids. Now for me is going to be a SA biotope with the focus on p.bass and perhaps a ray or two.


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Now for me is going to be a SA biotope with the focus on p.bass and perhaps a ray or two.


Hahaha...our aspirations about different yet the same.....I'm dreaming of a certain Blue Eyed fish and a very very large Pseudacanthicus in a 240.


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> Hahaha...our aspirations about different yet the same.....I'm dreaming of a certain Blue Eyed fish and a very very large Pseudacanthicus in a 240.


Yeah, I remember seeing the Blue Eyed fish at Charles' place. Incredible. When you think of how long it took the fish to grow to that size. Even the smaller royals he had in that tank, easily took 20 plus years for them to reach that size.


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## Fish Whisper

Wow, looks great.
will be checking here for updates


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## tony1928

So Kole's post got my butt in gear and I went and did a bit of work tonite. Also, I've shot a few more pics to show a bit more progress. Basically, I'm just about done all the work in terms of the plumbing. Most of the time spent was all in figuring out the plumbing but also in being able to buy alot of the 1.5" pvc plumbing, most of which I got online. Some of the stuff is just plain hard to find locally. I went everywhere after going to the usual HD and Rona (which surprisingly had a far superior selection). I went to all the wholesalers, Emco, Woleseley, Universal..etc. Easiest to find was online. Typical hard to find stuff was Sch 80 stuff, like hose barbs that was a slip fitting, cheap true union ball valves, odd stuff like that.

Hooked up all overflows with Durso standpipes. 








The following is a cornucopia of the finished plumbing pics. 






































I still have to plumb in the FX5's but the hard plumbing for that is already done. Note the hose barbs with the ball valves at the rear of the tank. I have one set for the left side and one for the right side of the tank for my 2 FX5's. Just a matter of cutting some PVC hose and I'm done there. I figure I would do a leak test first before I hook those up, just to help narrow things down if indeed I have to deal with a leak.

Oh here's a quick shot of some of my the stuff that I felt made my life way easier with this project. 
















Porter Cable polisher to buff out the used acrylic tank. I do have one major scratch which I will have to wet sand. Novus polish, which did the trick for most of the minor scuffs. Gorilla PVC glue. No extra primer required, also gave more than the usual 3 seconds to work with the glue. A lifesaver for novice plumbers. Loctite thread sealant. Forget about teflon tape. This stuff is easy to use. I thought about chemical issues with it but it is used for household plumbing which I have to assume is safe for potable water. Finally, the trusty ratcheting pipe cutter. Don't even bother doing a big pvc job without this. Takes 5 seconds to do a cut. Clean as a whistle.

So that's it for now, next up is a leak test and more updates to come as I do that. I still have to figure out heaters and temperature controllers but I do have many a regular heater at my disposal for the time being. Then for the next part I'll have to figure out my lighting. I'm going to do a LED project and see how that pans out. Phew.....that darn Kole  ......it's almost 1am! Gotta go to bed....meetings tomorrow AM.

Tony


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## `GhostDogg´

A chop saw will cut PVC pretty quickly too.


Glad to see this setup coming along.
I'm still procrastinating on my project.
I should just get my stand sanded & stained since the weather is so nice.
Since it's so nice my dog is always bugging to go to the park.

Good thing my dog luvs whenever I woodwork.
He always get his choice of the scarp pieces.


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## tony1928

`GhostDogg´ said:


> A chop saw will cut PVC pretty quickly too.


At 2AM, chop saw = unhappy family 

but absolutely, if I had one, I would have used it too. I would have gotten this done faster and believe me it kills me to take this long. I'm lucky if I get 5 hours a week to work on it between the family and my day job as controller at my company.


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## target

Looking really good. i love big projects like this, just provides more inspiration for when I get to do one.


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## tony1928

target said:


> Looking really good. i love big projects like this, just provides more inspiration for when I get to do one.


I must admit, it was BCA that inspired me to do this. It feeds the addiction. My fear is that once this project is all done, I'll miss having a project on the go!


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## target

tony1928 said:


> I must admit, it was BCA that inspired me to do this. It feeds the addiction. My fear is that once this project is all done, I'll miss having a project on the go!


I know what you mean. I am constantly looking for something to start up or work with. Another reason I like building the stands. I have some big plans for when I move and hopefully they should take a good chunk of time to fully set up.


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## bonsai dave

.

Porter Cable polisher to buff out the used acrylic tank. I do have one major scratch which I will have to wet sand. Novus polish, which did the trick for most of the minor scuffs. Gorilla PVC glue. No extra primer required, also gave more than the usual 3 seconds to work with the glue. A lifesaver for novice plumbers. Loctite thread sealant. Forget about teflon tape. This stuff is easy to use. I thought about chemical issues with it but it is used for household plumbing which I have to assume is safe for potable water. Finally, the trusty ratcheting pipe cutter. Don't even bother doing a big pvc job without this. Takes 5 seconds to do a cut. Clean as a whistle. 
Tony[/QUOTE]

Hey Tony. I tank is looking great . Was wondernig where did you get the novus polish solution from. I need it for the 120 acrylic i have . thanks


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## tony1928

Novus should be available at Lordco I think. I bought mine on ebay.


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## 2wheelsx2

I'm pretty KMS tools has it too.


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## tony1928

filling water now...the crackling sound of the foam is scary!


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## target

LOL, I can imagine. Any sort of cracking noise around an aquarium is not a sound I like to hear.


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## tony1928

actually, the tank and stand I'm pretty confident about. It's my noob plumbing job that concerns me. Although there are always those thoughts that creep into my head that says I should have used the biggest lumber I could find. I guess that's typical thinking for most of us. I was reading on Reef Central, where I got my plans for the stand, that dimension lumber is remarkably strong. I guess given that what we use to build our houses, a couple thousand pounds of water ain't nothin'. 

My plumbing on the other hand......I guess we'll get there in the next few hours. The water is only filling the tank right now....only about 30 percent. I has gotten up to the level of my first set of bulkheads for the FX5's intakes....but I've closed the valves on those for now. So far, leak free.


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## target

Cool, taking a while to fill eh? Man I wish I was setting up something like that. To my eye, your plumbing looked really well done. Why not open the bulkheads as you get to them and check each run for leaks instead of letting it fill right to the top first?


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## tony1928

Yeah, I haven't hooked up the FX5's yet so opening up those valves would not be good right now . I only have one other set of bulkheads, and those are all lined up at the top of the tank. So pretty well, I've gotta do a full fill before I can try anything. I might hook up one FX5 just to try it out. The other FX5 is still in use for another week til I shut down the 135g. I think it will take another hour or so to fill. Nervously inspecting the tank.


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## tony1928

So I got everything running but the pump is noisy as hell. I think its the vibration amplified by the pump against the base of the stand. The pump itself isn't making any noise.....its really annoying. Any ideas would be most helpful!


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## target

Put it on top of a piece of foam. Not the rigid type your tank is resting on as that trasmits vibrations as well, but soft filter foam. Or an old towel. Anything that can absorb the vibrations.

Oh, and I am assuming no leaks, so congrats.


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## tony1928

Yeah Daniel, woohoo! No leaks to speak of. Knock on wood. Yeah, I've got some soft foam I'm going to try to get under there. It's tight though since my plumbing is all hard plumbing.


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## target

LOL, yeah that could make it tough. Make sure to post some pics when you get a chance.


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## tony1928

I went and squeezed a few pieces of foam and its alot better, but I think all in all, its a big pump and its not going to be dead silent like what I'm used to with canisters and small pumps. Once I skin my tank stand, I will glue pink foam on the inside of the tank stand door panels and I think that should help muffle some of the sound transmission. So far so good.

Not much in terms of pics....its just water after all. But success!


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## jkam

wow so jealous!! this is getting really exciting especially after i saw it in person!!!


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## 2wheelsx2

That's awesome Tony. I think we need a "full frontal" shot. Just don't tell your wife that you need the shot for your BCA friends with tank envy, or she'll roll her eyes again.


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## target

+1 for the full frontal. I don't think anyone here will care if it is just water.


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## tony1928

Well guys here's the best I can do with the camera pressed up against the wall.










The noise issue is still bugging me. I've got foam under the pump now but its still fairly noisy. I'm not sure what to do. Some people say to give the pump a few days to break in, but I'm not sure how much that will do. Any other ideas? Do I have some plumbing design issues? I can't figure it out. Help!!!


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## 2wheelsx2

I've read that the hard plumbing of big pumps will cause excessive noise at time, and some people put a section of flex hose before they hard plumb. With all your shutoff valves, you should be able to try that without too many hassles?

BTW, I can see a reflection of your wife rolling her eyes on a chair (just j/k about the rolling of the eyes). 

Man, that's an awesome tank!


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## tony1928

Haha, that's actually a reflection of our TV. But if she was there, there would be massive eye rolling. Especially when she sees me taking pics and uploading them. 

I've been thinking about the flex hose, but I haven't been able to find the right type of hose. I was going to use pvc hose but the reinforced stuff that I got is way too rigid to be able to make that bend. Are there any other alternatives that I might be able to use? I was thinking of maybe using spa flex, but I'm not sure if that would be more flexible than pvc hose. I might go buy myself 10 feet and find out.


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## 2wheelsx2

Ah...right, now that I look again I can see the TV frame. 

Can't help you with the hose, but I am pretty sure I saw something about that problem on reefcentral.


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## Clownloachlover

Tony,
Check out Greenline hoses on Venebles Street in Vancouver, they have all kinds of hoses. As for pump noise there is not much you can do other than mount it to some sort of sound dampening or isolation mount. maybe talk to some spa builders see what they can suggest...awesome looking tank man...


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## tony1928

Clownloachlover said:


> Tony,
> Check out Greenline hoses on Venebles Street in Vancouver, they have all kinds of hoses. As for pump noise there is not much you can do other than mount it to some sort of sound dampening or isolation mount. maybe talk to some spa builders see what they can suggest...awesome looking tank man...


Been doing some more reading and I'm going to rerun the pump section using spa flex to reduce the number of 90 degree bends and also provide a little bit more vibration dampening over the hard pipe. I'm going to throw down a nice cheap mousepad under the pump. After that, there's not much more that I can do. I believe the sound is from the vibrations resonating throughout the stand.

Anyways, as for today, the main objective was the leak test and I passed....so far....knock on wood once again. Thanks for all the kind comments guys.


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## target

Looking good. I also love that tank.


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## tony1928

Just noticed a small drip leak at one of my bulkheads on the back of the tank. Maybe a drop of water every 10 minutes, so its really really slow. Climbed up on top of the tank and tried to give the bulkhead nut another turn. Still leaked. I think I'm going to go ahead and undo the nut and spread some silicone in the hole between the tank and bulkhead to seal it up. Not much else that I can do. Anyone else have any ideas?


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## 2wheelsx2

Not much help here, but do you have teflon tape on there?


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> Not much help here, but do you have teflon tape on there?


Hmm.....I've been told not to put any type of sealant on the threads of bulkheads...or at least that's what I've read. I think its because its not like a fitting where the threads actually need to be sealed to keep the water in. The bulkheads water seal lies in the rubber gasket that sits on the inside of the tank.


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## 2wheelsx2

That's what I've read too. But doesn't it sealing the hole with silicone essentially do the same thing, or am I mis-interpreting it?


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## Clownloachlover

Tony,
did you put silicone on the bulkhead gasket before inserting them into the hole? All I can think of is to try to remove the nut and put some silicone in from the back, either that or lower your water level, cut your pulumbing, remove the bulkhead and start again...are you sure it is not leaking from the pipe and not the bulkhead?


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> That's what I've read too. But doesn't it sealing the hole with silicone essentially do the same thing, or am I mis-interpreting it?


Not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but my thinking was to seal the rest of the hole with silicone. I'm not sure if the bulkhead gasket is doing a good enough job in this case. Maybe just by my moving the gasket a little, it will stop the leak. But testing it is a real pain. So my thought was to just squeeze some silicone in there and hopefully that will cure the minor leak. Ah well, I guess it could be worse. I will try the silicone tonite and see.


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## tony1928

Clownloachlover said:


> Tony,
> did you put silicone on the bulkhead gasket before inserting them into the hole? All I can think of is to try to remove the nut and put some silicone in from the back, either that or lower your water level, cut your pulumbing, remove the bulkhead and start again...are you sure it is not leaking from the pipe and not the bulkhead?


No, I didn't put any silicone on the bulkhead gasket. Again, everyone says to not do that as the gasket should be sufficient on its own. Maybe I should have put some silicone on there. I've already dropped the water. I might go ahead and put some there. I'd prefer not to cut anything at this point.


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## JUICE

will this bad boy have water in it tonight ? when i stop by ??


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## tony1928

JUICE said:


> will this bad boy have water in it tonight ? when i stop by ??


Haha, dude it does have water. I just drained in by about six inches. It's very weird sitting inside a tank while working on it. I feel like a fish. In fact, I think even you would fit inside for a swim.


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## JUICE

tony1928 said:


> Haha, dude it does have water. I just drained in by about six inches. It's very weird sitting inside a tank while working on it. I feel like a fish. In fact, I think even you would fit inside for a swim.


haha maybe , so should i bring my trunks !! and scuba gear ??


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## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> No, I didn't put any silicone on the bulkhead gasket. Again, everyone says to not do that as the gasket should be sufficient on its own. Maybe I should have put some silicone on there. I've already dropped the water. I might go ahead and put some there. I'd prefer not to cut anything at this point.


Silicone sticks poorly to rubber, and not necessary to seal. Undo the gasket and check the gasket for any debris etc. Sometimes wetting the gasket is all that is needed to seal.


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## tony1928

Rastapus said:


> Silicone sticks poorly to rubber, and not necessary to seal. Undo the gasket and check the gasket for any debris etc. Sometimes wetting the gasket is all that is needed to seal.


I'll try that first. Thanks Grant. Interesting that the gasket for these bulkheads are not the usual rubber but rather a clear plastic material of some sort. The are jets designed for hot tubs.


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## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> I'll try that first. Thanks Grant. Interesting that the gasket for these bulkheads are not the usual rubber but rather a clear plastic material of some sort. The are jets designed for hot tubs.


Yes, I don't use those. Hot tub builders use silicone between the seals because the material they are against is rough and the silicone fills those pores. Ironically I have had a leaky hot tub for years......

Those are not my choice unfortunately. Rubber is a better seal for sure.


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## tony1928

Rastapus said:


> Yes, I don't use those. Hot tub builders use silicone between the seals because the material they are against is rough and the silicone fills those pores. Ironically I have had a leaky hot tub for years......
> 
> Those are not my choice unfortunately. Rubber is a better seal for sure.


Well that explains it. Anyways, I'm stuck with those for now unless I tear everything apart. I had to cement in the plumbing so the bulkhead is permanent, with the exception of being able to loosen the nut. I'll try your water trick first and if that doesn't work, I'll try to get some silicone in there which will hopefully be enough to stop this very minor leak.


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## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Well that explains it. Anyways, I'm stuck with those for now unless I tear everything apart. I had to cement in the plumbing so the bulkhead is permanent, with the exception of being able to loosen the nut. I'll try your water trick first and if that doesn't work, I'll try to get some silicone in there which will hopefully be enough to stop this very minor leak.


Silicone really does not adhere to plastic very well, hopefully the water trick works. Sometimes aquarium manufacturers use that type but only in overflows where there is low pressure and they have rubber gaskets. Good luck, hopefully no problem.


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## gimlid

I agree with Grant on the gasket. I work in the plumbing and pipefitting industry. You may want to change the gasket out completely. Gaskets just sometimes fail. there are many factors to consider. I would bet it is pinched, has small debris, or perhaps is defective. You may just have a bad bulkhead too, I have had them fail due to poor plastic casting or whatever.
To use silicone is kind of a band aide to a problem rather than a fix to it.
Wild build, Very inspirational. Your piping looks very professional by the way. Thumbs up


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## gimlid

2wheelsx2 said:


> I've read that the hard plumbing of big pumps will cause excessive noise at time, and some people put a section of flex hose before they hard plumb. With all your shutoff valves, you should be able to try that without too many hassles?
> 
> BTW, I can see a reflection of your wife rolling her eyes on a chair (just j/k about the rolling of the eyes).
> 
> Man, that's an awesome tank!


I agree with the flex hose idea. Most industrial pumps (escept the inline centrifugal types)are equipped with some type of flexible pipe connection just because the the centrifugal force has to go somewhere. Its just physics and some trype of flex hose wll prevent that. It will also increase the life of the pump. 
I would combine the insulation idea with the flex hose idea. Both should really help alot.
Thanks again for all the ideas. My set up is going tobe half the size of yours but very similar in design. I like the idea of hard piping the FX5's. I think flex hose leading to those would also be a good idea. 
I am now thinking of including my cannisters in addition to my sump on my 180 build next month.
Sweet set up for sure


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## tony1928

Thanks for all the input. Yeah, I definitely agree that I should probably swap out the whole bulkhead or at least swap out the gasket, however, that would entail cutting out a portion of the plumbing and redoing it all. I will first try to clean and just "re-seat" the gasket and see if that will work. 

I will do the flex hose on the pump and see how that works. For all intents and purposes, this Reeflo pump is an industrial pump. I don't expect the pump to be silent but this is way too loud to be acceptable at this point. 

I always thought that hard piping the FX5 would be relatively easy and it was. It was especially handy as the FX5 fittings just happen to be 1" ID and not some weird size that wasn't easy to make work. The reason I was thinking of including the canisters was that I didn't think that the debris would be effectively picked up by the overflows. There's no way that even a strong current in the tank would be able to suspend all the crap enough to let it overflow through the top of the tank. And since I already had the canisters, why not give it a shot.


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## charles

Tony:

with the sumps that we have been building, we actually prefer to use flexiable hose than hard piping... It is so much easier to work with the angles are all...


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## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Thanks for all the input. Yeah, I definitely agree that I should probably swap out the whole bulkhead or at least swap out the gasket, however, that would entail cutting out a portion of the plumbing and redoing it all. I will first try to clean and just "re-seat" the gasket and see if that will work.
> 
> I will do the flex hose on the pump and see how that works. For all intents and purposes, this Reeflo pump is an industrial pump. I don't expect the pump to be silent but this is way too loud to be acceptable at this point.
> 
> I always thought that hard piping the FX5 would be relatively easy and it was. It was especially handy as the FX5 fittings just happen to be 1" ID and not some weird size that wasn't easy to make work. The reason I was thinking of including the canisters was that I didn't think that the debris would be effectively picked up by the overflows. There's no way that even a strong current in the tank would be able to suspend all the crap enough to let it overflow through the top of the tank. And since I already had the canisters, why not give it a shot.


Tony,
I would be concerned about those bulkheads quite honestly. It is less work to change them out and reconnect with couplings or unions than cleaning up 400 gallons......Spa bulkheads are also not the easiest to tighten long term and can loosen with vibration over time. Not intentionally trying to scare you or anything but those connections are your only insurance against disaster. The bulk heads we use are reverse thread so they tighten as you tighten your fittings. they are also constructed out of heavy PVC or Polypropylene. More heavy duty for this kind of job.


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## tony1928

Thanks Grant. You've given me a few things to think about now. The only reason I was using spa bulkheads was to get the jet fitting so that I could use them as returns. I'm not sure if I can get a similar type fitting on a "regular" bulkhead.


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## charles

Tony:

Talk to Pat. He can tell you where we get all our bulkhead from. They have all sizes.


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## tony1928

charles said:


> Tony:
> 
> Talk to Pat. He can tell you where we get all our bulkhead from. They have all sizes.


Thanks Charles. I'm contemplating replumbing that return portion with flex hose, or at least spa flex pvc pipe.


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## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Thanks Grant. You've given me a few things to think about now. The only reason I was using spa bulkheads was to get the jet fitting so that I could use them as returns. I'm not sure if I can get a similar type fitting on a "regular" bulkhead.


You can use various threaded directional fittings that we carry and are threaded to fit heavy duty bulkheads.


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## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Thanks Charles. I'm contemplating replumbing that return portion with flex hose, or at least spa flex pvc pipe.


Personally I avoid flex hose like the plague. The noise is probably vibration through the sump etc. What is under the equipment? Is it linoleum? We usually use rubber matting to help absorb noise. We just finished a 300 with more gear than you have and it is very quiet, all hard piped. I am sure doors will help as well at some point.


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## tony1928

Rastapus said:


> Personally I avoid flex hose like the plague. The noise is probably vibration through the sump etc. What is under the equipment? Is it linoleum? We usually use rubber matting to help absorb noise. We just finished a 300 with more gear than you have and it is very quiet, all hard piped. I am sure doors will help as well at some point.


I will be placing some rubber padding under the pump to try to isolate and will using pvc spa flex rather than flex hose. Hopefully that will help. The spa flex will serve as a connector to the sump and to the hard return plumbing. I still like the tidiness of the hard plumbing and also it feels much more durable and secure. Yes, the base of the stand is covered in linoleum tiles. I'll try to slip a mat under the sump as well. Thanks for all your advice!


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## tony1928

Rastapus said:


> You can use various threaded directional fittings that we carry and are threaded to fit heavy duty bulkheads.


I will pop by on the weekend and check them out.


----------



## tony1928

So I dropped by IPU to check out their bulkheads and they did have some but they were white which wouldn't work as my bulkheads would show inside the tank. Anyways the advice given here was very useful and I'll have my new bulkheads in a couple of days.

On a different note, this tank did not come with lids, which was bizarre, but I couldn't complain due to the price I paid. Thus, I decided to build my own lids. Tank lids are pretty simple; basically a piece of acrylic with a couple of pieces of acrylic glued on to the big piece to serve as guides to keep the lids on nicely. The tank did come with covers for the overflows so I tried to copy that design:










Also, see the big piece of acrylic that is sitting over the tank opening:










I'm going to cut a couple of strips of acrylic and glue them to the big pieces with some Weld On. Should be pretty easy. The hardest part of this was finding cheap acrylic locally which ended up being impossible. These 3 lids I am making would take up about a half sheet of 3/8" thick acrylic which IPP wanted over $250 bucks for and didn't even include cutting. I was able to buy my pieces on ebay, precut, for about $80. I'll post up some new pics of the lids later on.

So my plans for the tank in the next week or so will be to replace the crappy bulkheads with the new one's. Then also attack the more serious issue of the pump noise. I'm going to place sound dampening foam under the sump and also a special foam underneath the pump. Then I will replace a few sections of hard pvc pipe with spa flex pvc. Mainly the sections that join the pump to the sump and to the return. If this doesn't work, then I'm not sure what else I could do other than to buy a quieter pump. The pump is a Reeflo Barracuda and it is already supposed to be very quiet. However, it is quite powerful and I may need to downsize to get noise reduction. Additionally I will probably do some sort of insulation for my stand's doors. After that, I'm out of ideas. Alright, I'm going to go work on those lids.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Wow, those lids cost a lot of $. Why didn't you just go with glass? Or would that be cheaping out too much?

If you end up having to change the pump, would you want to go with 2 small pumps instead of one big one? I know nothing about sumps, so don't know if balancing would be a problem, but it seems to me that would really reduce the noise.


----------



## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> So I dropped by IPU to check out their bulkheads and they did have some but they were white which wouldn't work as my bulkheads would show inside the tank. Anyways the advice given here was very useful and I'll have my new bulkheads in a couple of days.
> 
> On a different note, this tank did not come with lids, which was bizarre, but I couldn't complain due to the price I paid. Thus, I decided to build my own lids. Tank lids are pretty simple; basically a piece of acrylic with a couple of pieces of acrylic glued on to the big piece to serve as guides to keep the lids on nicely. The tank did come with covers for the overflows so I tried to copy that design:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, see the big piece of acrylic that is sitting over the tank opening:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to cut a couple of strips of acrylic and glue them to the big pieces with some Weld On. Should be pretty easy. The hardest part of this was finding cheap acrylic locally which ended up being impossible. These 3 lids I am making would take up about a half sheet of 3/8" thick acrylic which IPP wanted over $250 bucks for and didn't even include cutting. I was able to buy my pieces on ebay, precut, for about $80. I'll post up some new pics of the lids later on.
> 
> So my plans for the tank in the next week or so will be to replace the crappy bulkheads with the new one's. Then also attack the more serious issue of the pump noise. I'm going to place sound dampening foam under the sump and also a special foam underneath the pump. Then I will replace a few sections of hard pvc pipe with spa flex pvc. Mainly the sections that join the pump to the sump and to the return. If this doesn't work, then I'm not sure what else I could do other than to buy a quieter pump. The pump is a Reeflo Barracuda and it is already supposed to be very quiet. However, it is quite powerful and I may need to downsize to get noise reduction. Additionally I will probably do some sort of insulation for my stand's doors. After that, I'm out of ideas. Alright, I'm going to go work on those lids.


Tony,
It sounds like you have already found bulkheads but what size are yours? The ones I was referring are black and the nozzles are dark grey. The white ones are 1 1 /2", are your returns that big?


----------



## tony1928

Rastapus said:


> Tony,
> It sounds like you have already found bulkheads but what size are yours? The ones I was referring are black and the nozzles are dark grey. The white ones are 1 1 /2", are your returns that big?


Hi Grant, Yup, the returns are 1.5" in diameter. So unfortunately, that makes finding stuff for them that much harder. Thanks for all your advice though.


----------



## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Hi Grant, Yup, the returns are 1.5" in diameter. So unfortunately, that makes finding stuff for them that much harder. Thanks for all your advice though.


Wow, yes, heavy duty 1 1/2" bulkheads usually take a larger hole than the spa ones. OK, hope the others you found work out for you.


----------



## tony1928

Well, I didn't get the Sch 80 HD ones but they are definitely large....they will fit into a 2-3/8" hole. I'll post what I found once I get them this weekend. My biggest concern still is the noise. I hope that I won't need to scale down to a smaller pump.


----------



## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Well, I didn't get the Sch 80 HD ones but they are definitely large....they will fit into a 2-3/8" hole. I'll post what I found once I get them this weekend. My biggest concern still is the noise. I hope that I won't need to scale down to a smaller pump.


I have found that pump to be somewhat quiet for the flow rate. Again, insulating the cabinet and adding doors will quiet it considerably. You can also put sound absorbing sheets in the inside of the cabinet, works wonders.


----------



## tony1928

Rastapus said:


> I have found that pump to be somewhat quiet for the flow rate. Again, insulating the cabinet and adding doors will quiet it considerably. You can also put sound absorbing sheets in the inside of the cabinet, works wonders.


Yup, I will be insulating the heck out of the cabinet once everything is all set. I really need to do it too as the tank is in my tv room.


----------



## tony1928

Finally got to installing a couple of new aquarium type bulkheads versus the hot tub jets that I was using. I was still able to install jets into the threaded opening of the bulkhead so that was good. The bulkheads had a the typical rubber type gasket so that was good. Did a quick fill just now and both leaked. I drained the tank a bit and will undo the nut and then recrank the bulkhead nut another twist and a half and add a bit of water to moisten the gasket. Hopefully that's all it will take. Honestly, bulkheads scare the heck out of me. Nothing more than the pressure of a nut on a piece of rubber that keeps all the water in.


----------



## Rastapus

Strange about the leaks. Once there is a bit of water on the gasket they should seal fine. Any pics of the new bulkheads?


----------



## tony1928

Hi Grant,

Was able to find a pic online. 
http://www.marineandreef.com/JT_Manufacturing_Bulkheads_p/rjt10015.htm
I'm going to try to reseat them again and retighten to see if that will work.

Tony


----------



## Rastapus

They look to have a better seal than the others.


----------



## tony1928

I think possibly its just not seating properly due to my own inaccuracies with my hard plumbing. That particular bulkhead is not 100% seating flush now....just a tiny tiny fraction off. The gasket is not particularly thick so it probably doesn't compensate much for small errors.


----------



## kookus

Just wanted to say Thanks! Setting mine up soon and all this info is very valuable.


----------



## tony1928

kookus said:


> Just wanted to say Thanks! Setting mine up soon and all this info is very valuable.


I'm glad somebody is getting some use out of my experience/ordeal. My biggest piece of advice is to probably have everything sorted out prior to building anything. Tank stand clearance issues and plumbing issues were the biggest and most annoying issues in my build that I could have avoided if I were patient enough to draw up a complete plan (ie. all dimensions, all equipment bought, etc...) before I started building. Otherwise, this project has been tons of fun and I think I'll miss the action once its all done. That being said, my next build will be the LED lights for this tank and that should prove interesting to someone with no experience in electrical like me.


----------



## David J

I am particularly interested in the LED lighting. Thank you for all the information so far and please give lots of details about your lighting adventures. I really think we as a group need to move towards more efficient lighting. Imagine if we all added up the power consumption of all of our lights on all of our tanks!


----------



## tony1928

David J said:


> I am particularly interested in the LED lighting. Thank you for all the information so far and please give lots of details about your lighting adventures. I really think we as a group need to move towards more efficient lighting. Imagine if we all added up the power consumption of all of our lights on all of our tanks!


I'll be certain to post my adventure into LED lighting. I've already purchased the retrofit kit from Rapidled. Just need to source out the aluminum "U" channel which I will be installing the LED's into. It will serve as both the housing for the LED's as well as a heat sink. LED's throw off alot of heat which need to be dissipated or the LED life will suffer / burn out. That being said, for the amount of heat that they do give off, they provide an immense amount of light for the power consumed. Anyways, I won't get into it quite yet. I'm still learning alot as I read.


----------



## Fish Whisper

*sound dampner*

Okay not a builder or skillful or done it myself  
but, here is a general idea.

What if you built a box around your pump and have holes for piping and power cords to go out, and then fit foam tightly in those in the holes, would probably cut out some of the noise. maybe use some thick wood.

like this...

Don't Laugh too long....


----------



## Rastapus

Pumps require ventilation to remove heat created or they burn out or thermally cut out if they have a protective switch.


----------



## Fish Whisper

Interesting... 
Well another novice idea would be having a sheet of sponge/foam and then having it strapped down firmly on the foam, in addition to the flexi hose idea.

Brainstorm guys!, iv'e taken out all the bad idea, only good one's left!


----------



## tony1928

Hey thanks for all the ideas guys. Yup, Grant is right, the pump throws off a substantial amount of heat so enclosing it is not an option. I purchased a pro quality vibration dampening rubber mat. Not sure what that means but its a grooved high density rubber mat. I will rest the pump on that. I also got some foam carpet underlay type material to go under the sump. Lastly I will glue foam sound absorption panels especially on the insides of the door panels. The rear of the stand is open with about six inches clearance to the wall. I may just place another piece of this foam against that wall to block reflected sound. Not much more I can think of besides swapping out to a lower powered pump.


----------



## Clownloachlover

Tony,
Chances are the noise you are hearing is not the pump at all, but moreso the harmonics the pump is creating sitting on the stand. The rubber sound dampening mat should help and the foam underlay is a good idea as well. The foam panels on the insides of the doors could work as well, however a suggestion to use a softer foam such as those used in recording studios may work a little better. Harmonics (vibrations) and reverberations are created from hard surfaces, if you can create some soft surfaces under the cabinet with the doors closed that may help reduce the noise somewhat. think of when you walk into an empty room or house and how much echo you hear, even your footsteps are amplified...now add some carpeting and furniture and the room quiets down substantially...same principles apply inside the stand...good luck


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I was thinking about that also. Another way to break up the harmonics (you can see sound treatments in home theatres for this) is to break up most of the flat surfaces. Clownloachlover is right. The less dense the foam is, the better it will absorb the sound. You might also look into lining the inside of the stand with felt cloth or layered flannel blankets which will absorb way more sound than dense foam.


----------



## tony1928

I was looking at the home thater acoustic panels and they are expensive. I'm trying to find some material that's a cheaper alternative. I think sound reduction is going to be an ongoing issue. A nice argument for a dedicated fish room / mechanical room, which I have no chance of getting.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Those home theatre accoustic panels are nice, but you can do that same thing by stretching old blankets or felt cloth over wooden frames. The idea is to prevent bouncing sound and weird harmonics. The principle behind that is to avoid dimensions which are perfect multiples of each other, such as 10x10 or 5x15 that sort of thing. You can achieve that fix by putting in structures at those nodes to bring up the "bounce". So in your stand, if you put in long strips of soft packing foam at irregular intervals, and tack bubble wrap, blankets, etc on the walls of the interior, you'll go a long way to dampening the sound.


----------



## jkam

the poor mans way to sound proof a room is to get egg cartons and staple them to the walls.

In your case you can line the inside of your stand with the egg cartons.

looks like this









The science behind it is that the sound waves bounce off irregularly off the egg cartons and dissipate the sound. Not sure if this will help but thats how some people *quickly* sound proof rooms.


----------



## Fish Whisper

A bit of topic but whatcha gonna put in that 400 Gallon Tony?


There should be a poll for this of course you don't have to listen to it, just might be interesting to see what ppl would incline for you to get


----------



## Clownloachlover

tony,
I agree with 2 wheels, if you were to build some wooden frames, wrap them in some sort of soft material, maybe even place fiberglass insulation behind them, that would go a long way to sound absorbtion. You could try acoutic ceiling tiles as well...not that expensive. I used fiberglass backed 2' X 4' tiles in the ceiling of my work shop and they work great. The key to sound absorbtion is soft surfaces...I think putting that pump on some sort of mat or sponge material will go a long way to reducing your harmonic vibrations. I plan to put both my FX-5's on soft carpet underlay, line the inside of my cabinet with some sort of soft surface maybe fiberglas insulation covered in felt...whatever works to deaden the sound...

BTW, did you fix your leaking bulkheads? what solution did you find worked for you?


----------



## tony1928

So, the bulkheads. So I decided to swap out the bulkheads to much better quality aquarium type bulkheads that have a proper rubber gasket as per Grant. I felt this was the right thing to do for the long term anyways, may as well do it now before I stock the tank. When I did the hard plumbing for my tank, the pipe fitting that was glued to the bulkhead caused it to not be perfectly flush with the tank surface, thus the seal was not good enough. I am going to try to redo that section of plumbing tonite. Shouldn't take long but just frustrating to have to continually redo stuff. Hopefully this is it and I can do a full fill and pump run by the weekend and see if the foam padding would have helped reduce the noise. I think it will be substantially better. Just a matter of how much better I guess. Once I have the who tank set up and running for a while, I'll go ahead and try all remainder of the sound reduction strategies such as acoustic foam and the like.


----------



## tony1928

jkam said:


> the poor mans way to sound proof a room is to get egg cartons and staple them to the walls.
> 
> In your case you can line the inside of your stand with the egg cartons.
> 
> looks like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The science behind it is that the sound waves bounce off irregularly off the egg cartons and dissipate the sound. Not sure if this will help but thats how some people *quickly* sound proof rooms.


Hey, I think I saw that egg carton thing in the movie Hustle and Flow when they were putting together a poor man's recording studio. LOL.


----------



## tony1928

Fish Whisper said:


> A bit of topic but whatcha gonna put in that 400 Gallon Tony?
> 
> There should be a poll for this of course you don't have to listen to it, just might be interesting to see what ppl would incline for you to get


Haha, the stocking has already been decided. I've got some peacock bass to put in there, as well as six adult Geophagus Altifrons that I picked up last week. I also have a Tigrinus cat that I'm growing out to put in there as well. It is currently about 6.5". Probably safe enough to put in there. The peacock bass are probably about 8-9" so I don't believe they will threaten any of the inhabitants at this point. The Geos should max out at about a foot and the Tigrinus is growing fast and will be huge anyways. I've been thinking of adding a couple of rays too, but I'm a bit torn as I'm concerned about the extra care that's required for rays. Still doing research.


----------



## tony1928

So finally got the new bulkheads in there, replumbed the return pump with spaflex. Nothing leaks anymore which is great. However, the noise issue still bothers me. There is definitely some harmonic issues at play from the pump vibrations effectively using the base of the tank stand as a bit of a sounding board. In hindsight, I should have probably done something more to help reduce this problem. I think I can dampen alot of the noise but I don't know if it will ever be quiet enough. I will be lining the stand with some kind of acoustic foam and also put a piece of foam against the wall where the back of the tank stand is open to help absorb the sound. 

I'm at a bit of a crossroads now in terms of the noise. Do I live with it for a while and do what I can to dampen the noise or do I go ahead and source out some quieter pumps. So people have recommended going to two Poseidon pumps instead of the one big Reeflo Barracuda that I have. I think maybe that would have been a good option in hindsight. Now that everything is plumbed, I don't think I needed as much return flow as I thought. I thought that i would be smart and buy a big pump and just valve it back if I don't need the flow. From what I can see now, I'm valving it back substantially just so the drains can keep up with the pump. This pump is probably capable of mid 3000 gph given the amount of head that I have....ie. maybe about 7 or 8 feet max. I think that my 2x1.5" drains that are plumbed to the sump probably only drains about 700-800gph per drain max after you factor in all the plumbing. Thus the Barracuda is probably twice the pump that I need and while I can valve it back, the drawback is obviously the noise and vibration that comes from a big motor. So what do you guys think? Any recommendations? I may just run it like this for a while before I am so annoyed I have to redo the pump. I'm hoping I don't get to that point.


----------



## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> So finally got the new bulkheads in there, replumbed the return pump with spaflex. Nothing leaks anymore which is great. However, the noise issue still bothers me. There is definitely some harmonic issues at play from the pump vibrations effectively using the base of the tank stand as a bit of a sounding board. In hindsight, I should have probably done something more to help reduce this problem. I think I can dampen alot of the noise but I don't know if it will ever be quiet enough. I will be lining the stand with some kind of acoustic foam and also put a piece of foam against the wall where the back of the tank stand is open to help absorb the sound.
> 
> I'm at a bit of a crossroads now in terms of the noise. Do I live with it for a while and do what I can to dampen the noise or do I go ahead and source out some quieter pumps. So people have recommended going to two Poseidon pumps instead of the one big Reeflo Barracuda that I have. I think maybe that would have been a good option in hindsight. Now that everything is plumbed, I don't think I needed as much return flow as I thought. I thought that i would be smart and buy a big pump and just valve it back if I don't need the flow. From what I can see now, I'm valving it back substantially just so the drains can keep up with the pump. This pump is probably capable of mid 3000 gph given the amount of head that I have....ie. maybe about 7 or 8 feet max. I think that my 2x1.5" drains that are plumbed to the sump probably only drains about 700-800gph per drain max after you factor in all the plumbing. Thus the Barracuda is probably twice the pump that I need and while I can valve it back, the drawback is obviously the noise and vibration that comes from a big motor. So what do you guys think? Any recommendations? I may just run it like this for a while before I am so annoyed I have to redo the pump. I'm hoping I don't get to that point.


Tony,
I would agree that the Hammerhead (Barracuda) is very oversized for the sump and size of aquarium. If we consider a turnover of 2 to 3 times, that pump will create too much flow over the media than you need and more noise. Normally if I do an aquarium such as this, I use a larger pump, maybe 1200-1800 GPH on a closed loop and a smaller pump on the sump, maybe 900-1200 GPH if that. An easy fix at this point would be a simple down sizing of the existing pump to a Dart or Snapper. I have completely concealed the noise of a Hammerhead but theatre type insulation was used throughout the stand. All was hardpiped but it was silent when we were done.


----------



## tony1928

Grant, as always, thanks for the info. I just don't know if the reduction in size to a smaller reeflo will result in substantial reductions in sound. What is your experience in comparing these pumps? I just don't want to end up buying another reeflo only to have it marginally quieter. Also my stand will never be completely enclosed but I will try the acoustic foam on the inside.


----------



## Rastapus

The difference in sound is considerable between a hammerhead and a dart. Darts are very quiet and a reliable pump. The Hammerhead's I have installed are not what I would consider quiet.


----------



## tony1928

I'll consider the Dart option for now as rejigging the system to run two separate pumps isn't exactly appealing to me right now. Though that may be the ultimate silent solution.


----------



## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> I'll consider the Dart option for now as rejigging the system to run two separate pumps isn't exactly appealing to me right now. Though that may be the ultimate silent solution.


I don't see the point of going that route. A smaller pump will have the same effect as two smaller ones. Even from scratch I wouldn't bother with two pumps unless the second was on a closed loop.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Grant, your opinion is much appreciated. This DIY stuff is so much trial and error so its good to hear it from a professional. I'm looking at the new Reeflo Snapper hybrid pump.....it's a regular snapper with an option to convert to dart flow rates with an included kit.


----------



## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Thanks Grant, your opinion is much appreciated. This DIY stuff is so much trial and error so its good to hear it from a professional. I'm looking at the new Reeflo Snapper hybrid pump.....it's a regular snapper with an option to convert to dart flow rates with an included kit.


Thanks! One thing that does scare me is "new" products. Particularly at this stage. Of course it is up to you but I would just grab a dart, you can always throttle it back or do a bypass back to the sump. Sound is the same between the Snapper and Dart anyways.


----------



## thefishwife

I am sure you will get everything all set up the way it needs to be, but I am sure looking fwd to seeing all the fish in it!


----------



## tony1928

thefishwife said:


> I am sure you will get everything all set up the way it needs to be, but I am sure looking fwd to seeing all the fish in it!


Thanks Kim! You and I are both looking forward to stocking the tank. I got six large geophagus from Graeme and they are gorgeous. I hope they will work with the peacock bass but so far they seem to be fine in their 135g temporary home together.


----------



## tony1928

Rastapus said:


> Thanks! One thing that does scare me is "new" products. Particularly at this stage. Of course it is up to you but I would just grab a dart, you can always throttle it back or do a bypass back to the sump. Sound is the same between the Snapper and Dart anyways.


Well there ya go again with the professional advice. I get sucked in by marketing. Dart it is.

Do you find that the pumps get noisier when throttling back?


----------



## Rastapus

tony1928 said:


> Well there ya go again with the professional advice. I get sucked in by marketing. Dart it is.
> 
> Do you find that the pumps get noisier when throttling back?


Not really, depends how far back, you can always do a bypass.


----------



## pacific

I'm not sure if this would help in your case, but for my sump I found resting the pump on top of a small pad of filter foam helped a lot with the vibration noise.



tony1928 said:


> So finally got the new bulkheads in there, replumbed the return pump with spaflex. Nothing leaks anymore which is great. However, the noise issue still bothers me. There is definitely some harmonic issues at play from the pump vibrations effectively using the base of the tank stand as a bit of a sounding board. In hindsight, I should have probably done something more to help reduce this problem. I think I can dampen alot of the noise but I don't know if it will ever be quiet enough. I will be lining the stand with some kind of acoustic foam and also put a piece of foam against the wall where the back of the tank stand is open to help absorb the sound.
> 
> I'm at a bit of a crossroads now in terms of the noise. Do I live with it for a while and do what I can to dampen the noise or do I go ahead and source out some quieter pumps. So people have recommended going to two Poseidon pumps instead of the one big Reeflo Barracuda that I have. I think maybe that would have been a good option in hindsight. Now that everything is plumbed, I don't think I needed as much return flow as I thought. I thought that i would be smart and buy a big pump and just valve it back if I don't need the flow. From what I can see now, I'm valving it back substantially just so the drains can keep up with the pump. This pump is probably capable of mid 3000 gph given the amount of head that I have....ie. maybe about 7 or 8 feet max. I think that my 2x1.5" drains that are plumbed to the sump probably only drains about 700-800gph per drain max after you factor in all the plumbing. Thus the Barracuda is probably twice the pump that I need and while I can valve it back, the drawback is obviously the noise and vibration that comes from a big motor. So what do you guys think? Any recommendations? I may just run it like this for a while before I am so annoyed I have to redo the pump. I'm hoping I don't get to that point.


----------



## thefishwife

tony1928 said:


> Thanks Kim! You and I are both looking forward to stocking the tank. I got six large geophagus from Graeme and they are gorgeous. I hope they will work with the peacock bass but so far they seem to be fine in their 135g temporary home together.


I bet you are too!! So hurry up will ya .

Sweet Graeme on the island? I don't doubt they are gorgeous no matter who they are from. If they are all getting along in the 135 don't see why they won't in their 400


----------



## tony1928

pacific said:


> I'm not sure if this would help in your case, but for my sump I found resting the pump on top of a small pad of filter foam helped a lot with the vibration noise.


Yeah, I think I've come to the conclusion that alot of the sound is via vibrations that are impacting the sump. I'm going to definitely pad the pump and also the sump. I'm also switching out the pipe from the pump to the sump to an even softer hose. Thanks to Ninez who pointed out the local industrial hose shop Greenline. I'm heading down there today to check them out. Their catalog shows a highly flexible 1.5" pvc hose with a bend radius of only 2". ie. you can bend it like a "U" to 2" before it will kink. I need alot of flexibility to be able to do that in my case due to space limitations. Also, the height of the intake of the pump and the bulkhead of the sump is at slightly different heights. Anyways, I'm going to try these two things to see if it will reduce the noise before I go and swap out my pump. The barracuda pump itself doesn't seem noisy....its just not silent.


----------



## tony1928

thefishwife said:


> Sweet Graeme on the island? I don't doubt they are gorgeous no matter who they are from. If they are all getting along in the 135 don't see why they won't in their 400


Yup, Graeme was nice enough to ask his mother in law to bring it back for me from the island. Super nice guy. I've never seen Geophagus that big in person before til now.


----------



## thefishwife

*400 gallon South American build...continued...*

Haven't met him in person but have heard lots about him from being on VIA.


----------



## tony1928

I met Graeme at the last big annual VAHC auction. He came over with Sean and was super cool about chatting about his fish. 

Anyhow....another weekend is here but I got a conference in Whistler to attend, thus little time to work on the tank this week. Won't be back til Wednesday. I did manage to get out to Greenline Hoses. Great shop for if you ever need any kind of hose. I found some super flexible hose that I will use to hook up the pump. I'm contemplating using some of it to hook up the FX5's instead of the stand braided PVC which I still find very unforgiving. It's so rigid to work with. I found this hose at Greenline that was so nice and flexible I could wrap it around my arm with ease. With braided pvc, you'd really have to wrench on it to do that. Ultra durable stuff too as its industrial food service / water hose so its meant to take abuse.


----------



## kookus

wow. All very good info. Greenline eh? too bad I'v already bought the hose.


----------



## Clownloachlover

tony, post some pictures of that hose will you, I was at greenline and ended up getting braided 1" hose, it is flexible but certainly not what you describe.


----------



## tony1928

Clownloachlover said:


> tony, post some pictures of that hose will you, I was at greenline and ended up getting braided 1" hose, it is flexible but certainly not what you describe.


Hi Brad,

Here's the pics of the hose. They have it on their board on the wall, but in a huge size. They have many other sizes upstairs in their warehouse. It does have a large rib on the outside but that shouldn't be a problem. And it is super flexible as you can see from the pics. I might use it for all my FX5 connections. I don't like braided pvc anymore after seeing all these new hoses which are readily available and they are only marginally more than braided. Price isn't a huge deal when you don't need miles of it. BTW, the ribbing does need slightly more effort to cut so be careful when you do it so you don't cut yourself. I use a ratcheting pipe cutter but if you don't have one, a pair of cutting pliers would be fine to cut through the ribbing portion.

Tony


----------



## 2wheelsx2

What happened here Tony? Did you go on vacation? I need a picture fix!


----------



## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> What happened here Tony? Did you go on vacation? I need a picture fix!


Hi Gary,

I promise to post something tonite if I don't pass out on the couch. LOL. I was on vacation for a couple weeks and just got back...first thing I wanted to do was work on the tank but only time I got is late night after the kids are down. sigh...

I've plumbed in the FX5's and I'm quite pleased with the amount of flow that they can handle. I had the water level below the return and I didn't realize that they actually pushed that amount of water. The return is a 1" PVC line through a bulkhead and the water shoots out about 7-8". Always difficult to see until you can watch the water fly out. In hindsight, I think running a series of these would have been alot easier and less complicated that a sump setup. Not taking anything away from sump setups as there are tons of pros to that. But for me who's a first timer with sumps, its been a bit aggravating figuring things out. Ah well, the project would have been kinda boring with the sump.  Running 3 or 4 FX5's would have been neat. I think someone else on BCA is running 3. Just the simplicity of it is attractive.

I also got a hold of alot of acoustic foam and will be lining the inside of the tank stand and the doors with it to try to keep the sound to a minimum. With the open back of the stand though, I can only do so much.

On a side note, with the nice summer weather, the tank has been at a nice 76F with no heater at all. I have the same Ranco controller as you and will be setting that up soon. Feels like overkill right now being that its summer. Like cats, I can't resist shiny new toys.

Oh also, I just emptied my 135g that's been sold and was holding all my fish and they've all been moved over to my 90g temporarily. Talk about overstocked. LOL. Hopefully just for a week while I age the water a bit and run the sump. I'm not too worried about the sump having any issues, other than leaking which it doesn't (knock on wood), as the 2 FX5's provide adequate filtration in case I have to fix the sump plumbing (once again). I'd just be angry. LOL.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Cool. Thanks for the update. I'm in the process of ordering my custom tank but I'm going with an Eheim 2078 with a conventional canister setup.

I was thinking maybe you were on vacation, but was hoping that you had already had it filled with the fish in it.


----------



## tony1928

I liked the 2076 Pro3e that I had. Only complaint would be the separate power supply hookup to the canister. The little adapter plug is in an awkward place and has a tendency to come loose if it gets knocked about. Also, the self priming button is more or less useless and the way its designed doesn't give you much leverage to push. Otherwise, I think they are great filters. The electronic flow control features on the 3e's is pretty neat too and I believe allows you to vary your flow to create a daily cycle.

Haha, I can't wait to get the fish in the tank cuz that means I can begin on my LED lighting project.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Cool. Thanks for the update. I'm in the process of ordering my custom tank but I'm going with an Eheim 2078 with a conventional canister setup.
> 
> I was thinking maybe you were on vacation, but was hoping that you had already had it filled with the fish in it.


----------



## tony1928

This whole pump return plumbing thing is driving me up the wall. I had ordered a check valve a while back and decided I wasn't going to use it but then when I had to redo the plumbing, I went ahead and installed it anyway. I placed it about a foot and a half below my return bulkheads which are near the top of the tank. So "theoretically" the water would flow from my pump, up about six feet of return plumbing, past the check valve and through the bulkheads back into the tank. Well, I just filled up the tank and fired up the pump to test things. No water was returning to the tank. I said, WTF!!!! After searing for about 3 minutes, my guess was that the water had flowed down the return and stopped at the check valve and that the pump didn't have the power to push the water in the sump back up the plumbing past the air up through the check valve which is currently held shut by the weight of the water. Bah....this is ridiculous and this noob is getting frustrated by this sump whole thing. I may just do 3 or 4 FX5's and just be done with it. 


Alright, venting done and now I'll have to figure out what to do to fix it. Simple solution would be to remove that check valve and just go without it. Anyone else think that this is my problem? I'm not touching it tonight. The FX5 solution is so tempting....I have a couple running in the tank right now and it is so silent and really pretty efficient at that.


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## 2wheelsx2

Sorry to hear about the troubles. But you know if it were easy it'd be no fun....


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## tony1928

Haha true enough. Although at this point, I just want to get it running so that the fish have a better home. In the 90g right now, there's just way too many fish of a large size for that tank. Hopefully I can fix the plumbing tonite and try again. I feel so stupid for putting in that check valve. I think if the empty plumbing was "primed" with water, it would work fine and I would leave in the check valve. But if everytime I turn off the pump I would be facing the same issue, it would be ridiculous.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Sorry to hear about the troubles. But you know if it were easy it'd be no fun....


----------



## tony1928

So finally tonite I got to finish everything up and test the plumbing. Here's a couple of pics of the whole thing.


























Not much in there right now except for some 3M sand, a big ol' tree stump and some nice smooth river rock for the fish to play in. No fish yet. Gonna give this a run in for a day or so before doing that. The last pic was the bane of my existence for quite some time. The pump is running as we speak and its certainly not silent but it is quiet enough. Isolating the pump with the rubber/cork pad really helped as did the use of the flex hose between the sump and the pump. I also stole my kids foam play mat and slipped it under the sump (its neon green). Hope he doesn't notice. LOL. That seemed to help too as the vibrations were getting amplified by the sump itself. I'll have more pics after the FX5's are all hooked up as well as well as the UV and the media reactor for the Purigen.

So my plan was to add the fish after giving the pump and chance to run for a day or so. Obviously the tank isn't cycled. I'm just going to add my fish on Saturday after doing a few quick tests like pH. I'm not going to bother doing the typical initial cycle as I feel the bioload is sufficiently small enough and the water volume sufficiently big enough to handle the bioload. What do you guys think? I plan to start with weekly 20% water changes. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.


----------



## Mferko

very nice man
i like the way you framed the stand, hondas3000 needs to look at that


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## 2wheelsx2

That's awesome Tony. You must be quite the perfectionist as everything is neat and tidy. Why bother with the cycle? Take media out of the other (you're taking that one down right?) and put it in your sump and you're good to go.


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## tony1928

Haha, I just took the model off of Reef Central. Although in hindsight, I would have liked to eliminate the middle supports for better access, but I don't think I could have done that for an 8 foot span unless I went for some huge piece of lumber across the top. My whole stand was built with just 2x4 and 2x6.


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## tony1928

Yeah, why didn't I think of that. Cuz I'm an idiot. LOL. That's what I've always told other people to do.

Neat and tidy would be nice if that was true. My wife is waiting for me to clean up that part of the house since I made quite a mess of it with all the tank supplies and tools.



2wheelsx2 said:


> That's awesome Tony. You must be quite the perfectionist as everything is neat and tidy. Why bother with the cycle? Take media out of the other (you're taking that one down right?) and put it in your sump and you're good to go.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Neat and tidy would be nice if that was true. My wife is waiting for me to clean up that part of the house since I made quite a mess of it with all the tank supplies and tools.


Well, I didn't mean the house, I meant the tank.  My wife says exactly the same thing, that my tanks and my garage is neater than anywhere else I go in the house.


----------



## thefishwife

*400 gallon South American build...continued...*

Looks great. I'm ready to see the fish in their new home Tony.


----------



## tony1928

I think they can't wait either having spent the last several months ogling the tank from a few feet away. 

I'm having trouble deciding on the scape. I guess it ultimately depends on what the stock will be. I didn't want to have the barebottom sans decor look. I want it to look natural but not overcrowd the tank to give these future monsters some running room. I'm debating on whether to get some rays as Charles has been sending me subliminal messages.....or maybe just regular ol' PM's. LOL. Just doesn't seem to have enough room given that I put that huge stump in there......thus my dilmemma. Do I keep the stump or not. The stump is a gigantic malaysian bogwood stump. Almost reaching the top of the tank and has a 2.5 foot circumference. Somebody please tell me what to do!



thefishwife said:


> Looks great. I'm ready to see the fish in their new home Tony.


----------



## turtlez

I think stingrays would be too much for the tank. The Wood looks reallllly nice and when the geophagus' get bigger, since they are eartheaters, I would a assume the bottom of the tank would be completely occupied.
Looks amazing, good job.


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## tony1928

Thanks for the kind comments. The Geophagus are already 8" and yeah, I would like to give them more room to roam. The peacock bass that I have are at about 7" and really are just juvies. I have a few Hoplarchus Psittacus which range in size....from 8" down to 4". After that the few catfish I have will be fairly big...which is why I'm debating the stingrays. I also have a pike which may need his own pile of rocks for a home.

I was given that piece of wood and I'm loathe to give it up. So hard to find stuff like that. It weighs a good 60-70lbs when out of the tank and dry. I plan on leaving one side of the tank fairly wide open. However, I may need to add a little more wood or rocks if the fish that I have to give some of the fish their own territory.



turtlez said:


> I think stingrays would be too much for the tank. The Wood looks reallllly nice and when the geophagus' get bigger, since they are eartheaters, I would a assume the bottom of the tank would be completely occupied.
> Looks amazing, good job.


----------



## crazy72

Wow. First time I go through this thread. Took me half an hour! ! 

Very interesting to see the evolution. Thanks for posting.

This is an amazing tank. You've done an incredible job with it. I can't even imagine myself doing anything like this. Great work.

The scape looks great, I think. In my VERY humble opinion, the stump should stay. I just love a big wood centerpiece like this. On a tiny scale in comparison, I've just done the same thing in my Vicenza: a (relatively ) large stump in the middle that goes nearly all the way to the water surface. Anyway, I think yours looks wicked.


----------



## tony1928

crazy72 said:


> Wow. First time I go through this thread. Took me half an hour! !
> 
> Very interesting to see the evolution. Thanks for posting.
> 
> This is an amazing tank. You've done an incredible job with it. I can't even imagine myself doing anything like this. Great work.
> 
> The scape looks great, I think. In my VERY humble opinion, the stump should stay. I just love a big wood centerpiece like this. On a tiny scale in comparison, I've just done the same thing in my Vicenza: a (relatively ) large stump in the middle that goes nearly all the way to the water surface. Anyway, I think yours looks wicked.


Thanks for the kind comments. Love the Vicenza and other Fluval designed tanks. They really do their homework when it comes to their industrial design. Just look at the G series filters. Awesome for a gadget freak like me.

Yeah, I'm liking the stump more and more. The only thing that I don't like it that it continues to stain my water but I think I can live with that or I will use something like Purigen to try to eliminate the staining. So far the fish seem absolutely fine and happy in their new tank...............

My only complaint right now is still the noise. A few pages ago in this thread, I mentioned that the noise on the pump and sump was driving me nuts and since then, with the stuff that I've done, I've been able to reduce the noise down by several orders of magnitude. Now the pump just has a hum. It is very reasonable for the size of pump it is and if it was in a dedicated fish room. Unfortunately it is in a room that is also meant to be a TV room. That means that this is still too loud. I didn't think it would bother me this much but I still can't sit and watch TV in this room with this much noise. I guess you never know how much you need the silence as when you sit down by yourself late at night and turn on the TV. Anyhow, I think I'm going to do away with my sump setup and replace it with 2 additional FX5's. Right now I already have two FX5's running, hard plumbed into the back of the tank. I was thinking I would hook one new FX5 up to each overflow. This is all very aggravating but I know that if I want to use this room as a TV room, the noise right now is still unacceptable.


----------



## Rastapus

Tony,
The soundproofing will really help, you could consider closing in the back if it is not good enough after and vent the cabinet. 
Stingrays will drive you nuts in there, constantly moving the sand towards the center. they always tend to ride the glass pushing the sand back. Nightmare. There is a lot you can do with that display, glad you decided against bare bottom. Pretty wide open to other Cichlids, catfish etc. Good thing you have something to grow them out in if necessary. Looking really nice, very clean install.


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## tony1928

Grant, as usual you comments are much appreciated. I think closing in the back would probably do alot to reducing the noise but I still am not convinced that it would reduce it to the level that I really want. I even thought the FX5's were loud before when I was using only Eheims. I guess the kicker really is that I want to use it not 10 feet from my TV. Probably wasn't a good idea to begin with and I didn't realize at the start that of all the things in a project like this, noise would be my biggest enemy. Shoulda known. I'm loving the tank so far other than the noise. There is so much room for the fish to roam. So far, there is not much aggression too between all the tankmates as there is so much room for them to move around in. Who knows once they grow a bit more but so far so good.

Now I just need to find a decent price on some more FX5's. Anyone got a lead? Best prices I've been finding and I would need to buy online for it is like $230USD shipped and I'd have to drive it back from the states.



Rastapus said:


> Tony,
> The soundproofing will really help, you could consider closing in the back if it is not good enough after and vent the cabinet.
> Stingrays will drive you nuts in there, constantly moving the sand towards the center. they always tend to ride the glass pushing the sand back. Nightmare. There is a lot you can do with that display, glad you decided against bare bottom. Pretty wide open to other Cichlids, catfish etc. Good thing you have something to grow them out in if necessary. Looking really nice, very clean install.


----------



## thefishwife

I vote on keeping the piece of wood too, and for decorating, just add few pieces of something you might like in there. As you said it will all depend on what stock you put in there. You can always take out what you put in if you don't like it.


----------



## crazy72

tony1928 said:


> Now I just need to find a decent price on some more FX5's. Anyone got a lead? Best prices I've been finding and I would need to buy online for it is like $230USD shipped and I'd have to drive it back from the states.


You've probably seen this already, but just in case.
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/freshwater-equipment-classifieds-27/fs-fluval-fx5-[$220]-4170/

Not much cheaper than the $230USD you've seen, but then you don't have to go down to the states for this one. And you can always offer a 10mns gaze at your 400G as part of the negociation to bring the price down.


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## tony1928

Thanks Kim. I'm getting attached to the driftwood as well. The fish love swimming around, over and through it too. There's some nice holes in there that go straight through.



thefishwife said:


> I vote on keeping the piece of wood too, and for decorating, just add few pieces of something you might like in there. As you said it will all depend on what stock you put in there. You can always take out what you put in if you don't like it.


----------



## tony1928

Yup, thanks for the info. I did see that already. Just was hoping for a couple of new ones to complement my 2 used ones. It's funny you know, I know I should be kinda upset about blowing all this money on my sump setup only to abandon it but knowing that 4 FX5's will be "silent" I'm looking forward to it. Also, with it goes most of complicated plumbing. Sigh...


crazy72 said:


> You've probably seen this already, but just in case.
> http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/freshwater-equipment-classifieds-27/fs-fluval-fx5-[$220]-4170/
> 
> Not much cheaper than the $230USD you've seen, but then you don't have to go down to the states for this one. And you can always offer a 10mns gaze at your 400G as part of the negociation to bring the price down.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Are you sure you'll be happy with 4 FX5's? I know I find mine loud. When I shut the FX5 down to do maintenance, then the fishroom is "silent" (leaves the XP3 and 2028 running). I actually don't plan on buying any more FX5's because of this (although I think they are no longer made). I just got an Eheim 2078 instead of an FX5 for my new tank because of this reason. Sure it's less flow, but I couldn't stand that noise in my living room where this tank will be going.


----------



## tony1928

I definitely agree with you there in terms of noise compared to the Eheims. But I would gather even a dozen FX5's would be quieter than my Reeflo pump. I was anticipating some noise but for a TV room it was probably not a good idea from the get go. Also, with all the soundproofing I've done to the cabinet, those FX5's will probably be as close to silent as they will ever be! LOL.

I don't see any particularly good alternatives to the FX5 unless I am happy to go with substantially less flow. I do love Eheims but they are expensive.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Are you sure you'll be happy with 4 FX5's? I know I find mine loud. When I shut the FX5 down to do maintenance, then the fishroom is "silent" (leaves the XP3 and 2028 running). I actually don't plan on buying any more FX5's because of this (although I think they are no longer made). I just got an Eheim 2078 instead of an FX5 for my new tank because of this reason. Sure it's less flow, but I couldn't stand that noise in my living room where this tank will be going.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> I don't see any particularly good alternatives to the FX5 unless I am happy to go with substantially less flow. I do love Eheims but they are expensive.


I agree there. I was going to suggest a 2262, which is actually more powerful than the FX5, but then they are $500 which is almost 2x the price of the FX5.

One thing I was thinking of before you abandon the whole sump concept is, what's on the other side of the wall? If it's the closet or the garage, maybe you can put the sump on the other side and wall it into a little room? Then no more noise at all.


----------



## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> I agree there. I was going to suggest a 2262, which is actually more powerful than the FX5, but then they are $500 which is almost 2x the price of the FX5.
> 
> One thing I was thinking of before you abandon the whole sump concept is, what's on the other side of the wall? If it's the closet or the garage, maybe you can put the sump on the other side and wall it into a little room? Then no more noise at all.


Yeah, I thought about that too but the cost of that Eheim is $$$$. Also, the FX5 is so easy to hard plumb with its existing plumbing dimensions. I couldn't believe how easy it was. 1" ID flex hose just slips right on snug.

Oh man, the wall behind the tank is a bathroom.....perfect size and has all the plumbing connections for a mechanical room. LOL. That would obviously never pass the wife test.


----------



## tony1928

So I decided to go ahead with it and order up a couple of FX5's. Decent price on ebay I guess, got them for about 230 shipped, so under 250 when converted to CAD. That's typically at least $50 cheaper per unit locally. 

Guess there will be some sump equipment for sale soon....LOL. After I finish this tank project I would be there will be a decent garage sale going on. I got so much aquarium equipment laying around from all the years of running multiple tanks.


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## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha....Guess I'll be keeping an eye out for your equipment list too.


----------



## tony1928

Gary, its just so sad....so sad. I've got boxes of stuff that is used or barely used.

Oh by the way, do you just toss in your bagged Purigen into your canister? 


2wheelsx2 said:


> Hahaha....Guess I'll be keeping an eye out for your equipment list too.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Gary, its just so sad....so sad. I've got boxes of stuff that is used or barely used.
> 
> Oh by the way, do you just toss in your bagged Purigen into your canister?


Oh, my wife and I know how you feel. She points it out to me all the time. 

Yep, I just put the Purigen in the top basket of my FX5 in the center.


----------



## tony1928

Cool. I guess there'll be a media reactor for sale too. LOL.

I think I'll be running an Eheim pump solely for the UV unit. The Compact Plus pumps seem reasonable and are adjustable flow too. I'm looking for quiet and reliable plus I trust Eheim.

Now I just have to wait for all my stuff to arrive and I will be rid of sump pump noise forever. To be honest I can't wait. The droning and on going noise from that room is driving me nuts. It's not loud but constant.

More pics to come of the paneling that I made to cover up the stand.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Yep, I just put the Purigen in the top basket of my FX5 in the center.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I think you've inspired me to sound insulate my stand downstairs for the 125. I'll have to fashion a cover for the openings in the back (with velcro probably) as I woke up last night in the middle of the night and could hear the droning downstairs and couldn't figure it out until I realized it was the FX5.


----------



## tony1928

I'll post some pics tonite of what I've used. I suppose you could pretty well use any type of foam. I ended up using actual convoluted acoustic paneling. I was intending to insulate that damn loud pump so I didn't mind spending some extra money. The spray adhesive that I'm using isn't quite up to the job though of sticking the foam onto the wood. I will probably have to use actual conventional glue. The foam right now keeps falling off after a few hours.

Overall, what I'll probably end up doing is insulating all the doors and then as the back of the stand is open, I will just place a big piece of this foam against the wall to absorb the sound which should prevent most of the sound from bouncing back into the room. I think any soft blanket or mat actually should be sufficient for that purpose. I can't wait to get this phase of the project complete so I can work on the lights. I was inspired by the luminaire project posted in the DIY section, but I'm not sure if that will work well for a tank my size. I can just see the box itself being way too heavy for a 8 foot x 3 foot tank. Going to have to devise something else.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I think you've inspired me to sound insulate my stand downstairs for the 125. I'll have to fashion a cover for the openings in the back (with velcro probably) as I woke up last night in the middle of the night and could hear the droning downstairs and couldn't figure it out until I realized it was the FX5.


----------



## Aquaman

2wheelsx2 said:


> Oh, my wife and I know how you feel. She points it out to me all the time.
> 
> Yep, I just put the Purigen in the top basket of my FX5 in the center.


Wouldn't the purigen be better in the bottom basket after the meadia baskets rather than before ? Just curious as I had always put floss in the bottom basket ...(.that is untill I removed all the filter material out of them completely)

Oh and sounds like your wife and my G/f would get along sine. ( i have boxes and boxes of stuff I just might need one day.....when they become collectables .)


----------



## tony1928

Hmmm...interesting, I was always told to put floss on the top basket. Anyone remember the water path in an FX5?

I used to do the same in that I kept all my aquarium stuff even though I didn't use it but you know, just in case. Now I'm of the mind, that if I don't see myself using it in a year, I'm going to just sell it and buy it again later. I'm just completely out of storage, and the less my wife sees of this stuff, the better. Hope she's not adding up the cost of all this stuff!

Here's a couple of pics of the sound dampening material that I've lined the inside of the tank stand with, and also a pic of the overall "skinned" stand. The panels look a bit wobbly cuz I have some wires running out of the tank stand at this point which are in the way of the panels attaching properly. I'm no carpenter so it was the best I could do. The first pic shows the color of the wood stain alot better. It's basically a medium dark walnut. There's a stainless steel drawer pull along the top of each panel to give a little definition. Hope you guys like it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Bill is right. The bottom basket is supposed to be the last stage. I always get that mixed up for the FX5 as it's backwards from other canisters. Regardless, I figure if it makes it through all that foam, it's not going to matter that much whatever bio media I have it through (I have all bio media in the baskets).

Nice looking stand Tony, and yes, it does look a bit weird for the panels to be a bit off kilter.


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## tony1928

Yup, I don't use any floss in my FX5 anyways. They clog up so fast, there's no point. Especially the fine polishing pads. All bio for me too.

I figure someone was gonna point out that the panels were a bit off so I may as well go ahead and explain.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Bill is right. The bottom basket is supposed to be the last stage. I always get that mixed up for the FX5 as it's backwards from other canisters. Regardless, I figure if it makes it through all that foam, it's not going to matter that much whatever bio media I have it through (I have all bio media in the baskets).
> 
> Nice looking stand Tony, and yes, it does look a bit weird for the panels to be a bit off kilter.


----------



## charles

wish I saw this thread earlier. I would suggest an in sump pump like the mag 18. It would solve your noise problem. I am always a big fan of in sump pump as one less thing to worry about leaking. Unless your tank require a very big pump, there is no need to for an external pump in my opinion. Anyhow, no need to kick the dead horse as you already ordered your FX5.

Nice photo... I think a ray or two will look good in there


----------



## crazy72

charles said:


> I think a ray or two will look good in there


... or a thousand cardinals. That would be neat too in such a tank.


----------



## tony1928

Haha, thanks for the info Charles. I think the pump I selected was probably overkill which contributed to the extra noise. That being said, its my first time doing a sump and I'm not sure if I was really up for the little extras that working with a sump would involve. I've always been a canister guy and that's been my comfort zone. It's just so simple and tidy. Also, 4 FX5's would probably be adequate filtration for my tank eh? LOL. 

Nice Charles, again tempting me with those rays. I'll give ya a call once the tank is completely finalized to see if the rays still interest me. I like them but I'm not sure if I like the huge added bio load of a few messy rays.


----------



## tony1928

I think Charles would say "10,000 cardinals." It would be a cardinal blizzard. LOL.



crazy72 said:


> ... or a thousand cardinals. That would be neat too in such a tank.


----------



## Luke78

Guessing all that hard work is paying off for you when you get to sit in front of it and watch all that activity? Those Geos look great , how big are they ? Keep updating , its been a interesting thread to follow thanks for sharing.


----------



## tony1928

Happy to share the tank with everyone. This project has kept me busy for some time and I'm thankful for that. I love this great hobby.

The Geophagus Altifrons are probably easily 8" for the smallest one. I was really lucky to be able to get a group of sub adults. They should max out at about 12". All I could ever find was juvies of 3-4" max. They are slow growers and I really wanted them in the tank as a complementary fish to my Cichla. However, I really am enjoying watching the Geos as they are so active. They come right up to the surface to get pellets and will follow me around the room. I'll try to get better fish pics soon once the tank is finally complete. I just had to get them into the tank as I sold my other tank and they were way too crowded in the temporary 90g home.

Now I just need to go shop for a nice lounger to go with the tank....



Luke78 said:


> Guessing all that hard work is paying off for you when you get to sit in front of it and watch all that activity? Those Geos look great , how big are they ? Keep updating , its been a interesting thread to follow thanks for sharing.


----------



## richbcca

Nicely done Tony. Looks great. You're lucky you could get it in the house, mine is stuck in the garage.


----------



## eternity302

That's really GIANT!
Awww gosh.. i just want one that big now =(

Good work!
How's the sump, is it loud?


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Richard. The tank just fit through the door and more importantly, I was able to convince my wife that the spot where I was going to put the tank was "wasted" space anyways. 



richbcca said:


> Nicely done Tony. Looks great. You're lucky you could get it in the house, mine is stuck in the garage.


----------



## tony1928

The sump is louder than I would like for a TV room. That's not saying that it is loud but more or less loud enough to make it annoying for tv viewing. I've decided to switch to using more FX5's...for a total of 4 FX5's. One connected to each of the overflows to take the place of the sump. It should be a relatively painless operation.



eternity302 said:


> How's the sump, is it loud?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I just wanted to let you know that you've inspired to drill my new tank and plumb in the canister. I'm going to have one hole 6" from the bottom and one 6" hole from the top (bottom for inlet and top for output). They will be both be on the same panel near the corner (6" from the edge) to minimize getting gravel into the filter and also allow surface movement without too much surface disturbance in case I inject CO2. How does that sound to you?


----------



## tony1928

Wow, to think I've inspired somebody else....I'm totally flattered. LOL.

Yeah, I think it should work just fine. 6" from the top should minimize surface agitation. What are you going to be using for the return fitting? I used a return jet that narrowed the opening probably a bit more than I wanted. Result was that the water jets out pretty good. Not that bad for me as I want substantial surface agitation. Is your tank acrylic and are you going to drill it yourself?



2wheelsx2 said:


> I just wanted to let you know that you've inspired to drill my new tank and plumb in the canister. I'm going to have one hole 6" from the bottom and one 6" hole from the top (bottom for inlet and top for output). They will be both be on the same panel near the corner (6" from the edge) to minimize getting gravel into the filter and also allow surface movement without too much surface disturbance in case I inject CO2. How does that sound to you?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Tanks is a 30x30" square glass tank that will be 24" high. Plecos preclude me from having an acrylic tank. I am having it custom made. Trimless and drilled. I think I'm going to go with locline and have one flat fitting which will cause pretty fast movement of water for air exchange, but not too much disturbance in case I want to inject CO2 later on. I'm having the canopy and stand custom made by Target. Should probably start my own thread, but the only thing I have right now is the filter.


----------



## tony1928

Haha, no problem man, feel free to borrow this thread while you are waiting for your equipment to arrive. Locline would work great and allow you to direct the water in multiple directions if you want.

Trimless tanks look hot. Thought if you have a canopy on top, wouldn't that just cover up the trimless look anyway?

Yeah, and acrylic precludes me from having plecos 



2wheelsx2 said:


> Tanks is a 30x30" square glass tank that will be 24" high. Plecos preclude me from having an acrylic tank. I am having it custom made. Trimless and drilled. I think I'm going to go with locline and have one flat fitting which will cause pretty fast movement of water for air exchange, but not too much disturbance in case I want to inject CO2 later on. I'm having the canopy and stand custom made by Target. Should probably start my own thread, but the only thing I have right now is the filter.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The top will be covered up by the canopy because I don't want jumpers. But the bottom will have a flush custom wood stand that complements my furniture and floors, ADA style, so the trimless will enhance that.


----------



## tony1928

Very nice. Can't wait to see it started.



2wheelsx2 said:


> The top will be covered up by the canopy because I don't want jumpers. But the bottom will have a flush custom wood stand that complements my furniture and floors, ADA style, so the trimless will enhance that.


----------



## tony1928

So finally, after waiting for FX5's and other parts and finding the time after putting the kids to bed, I've been able to more or less finish the tank build portion of this project. To recap a bit. I decided the sump setup was just going to be too loud no matter what I did to reduce the noise. This being a TV room, I really had little room for error. I should have really knew this from the get go, but I guess wanting to do a sump overrode my senses. So I decided to ditch the sump setup and go with 4 FX5's. Two running my overflows and two which was already installed before doing the bulk of the mechanical filtration via a couple of intake screens that I installed about six inches from the bottom of the tank. They are all running now and though it is not silent, it sounds well, like 4 FX5's. Not loud of course, they are quiet enough, not silent. Good enough for the TV room. Here's a few pics since everyone loves pics:
























The last pic is a view of the "window" in the UV sterilizer. I guess that's supposed to show that your bulb is still lit and functioning. I just like the blue glow. I'm such a geek. LOL. Since I ditched the sump, I had to buy another pump to run the UV so I settled for an Eheim Compact + pump. Silent. An awesome pump so far.

So I'm just sitting here watching TV and monitoring things to make sure there are no leaks and stuff. So far so good. I'm just sitting here enjoying the silence, well, close enough to silence for me. I'm a happy camper now.

Next part of the build will be the LED lighting. I'm still thinking of ideas but I'm leaning towards an aluminum frame pendant type fixture. A canopy would have been nice but I really want super easy access to the tank and also, I would want easy heat dispersal for the LED's. Ah well, that's next week.


----------



## Smiladon

4 FX5s is a great idea. You can always close up the stand with something, that will reduce the sound by a lot. 

How big is the UV?

Cant wait to see another full tank shot. I wonder how all the intakes for the FX5 looks.


----------



## thefishwife

OK that is impressive Tony! You have done a great job! When can I see pics of the fish in there, along with the tank!


----------



## target

4 FX5!!! I love the shot with them all in a row. Can't wait for more pics.


----------



## tony1928

The stand is closed up  I just kept the doors off during the build phase. Yes, the sound is greatly reduced with the doors on.

The UV is 40w.

The intakes and outlets for the FX5's have all been fully plumbed into the back of the tank via bulkheads drilled through the acrylic. I am not using the FX5 stuff for that. I did however use the FX5 return and intake and modified it to work with the UV return and intake. I would have hard plumbed those too if my plans didn't change with the sump.



Smiladon said:


> 4 FX5s is a great idea. You can always close up the stand with something, that will reduce the sound by a lot.
> 
> How big is the UV?
> 
> Cant wait to see another full tank shot. I wonder how all the intakes for the FX5 looks.


----------



## tony1928

Just for you Kim. It's super hard to get good pics right now as I have no light fixture and any flash would just bounce back and you'd just see me holding the camera. So the pics are a bit grainy as I had to shoot them in high iso with no tripod (for those camera geeks out there). So in the pics there's my new Uaru sp. orange from April. The Geo. Altifrons, the Hoplarchus Psittacus and my pbass monos. I love the Uarus now...would love more...the orange variant is some nice added colour. I'm debating the pbass honestly, in the long run. I may just sell them once they get a bit bigger and go with a community tank. We'll see...

Oh by the way, to give you a sense of size, the Geos are about 8-9". The smallest would be a juvy Uaru who's about 4" or so.




























thefishwife said:


> OK that is impressive Tony! You have done a great job! When can I see pics of the fish in there, along with the tank!


----------



## bigfry

Nice setup and beautiful fishes.

Love the golden look of them.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That looks great Tony. I was wondering when you would post up the 4xFX5 shot.  Now you can clean one filter every 2 weeks and rotate through. Since all the media is the same, no wastage. I should have done that off the bat. Now I have Eheim classics, pro2's, pro3's, XP3, Fluval, etc. So annoying as I have to keep some of everything.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Gary. Yeah, I used to have different filters all over the place, different Eheims even. I had a cabinet full of different boxes of media.

Yeah, I was thinking about the maintenance rotation. Sounds about right every 2 weeks just to do a rinse out of media. I`m only running the foam inserts and some bioballs. I have one bag of Purigen in two filters. I have one bag of crushed coral in another filter. That`s it for now. Trying to avoid polishing pads for now. I`m wondering if the Purigen will take the tannins out of the water....I`m gonna give a few days and see what happens.

When I turned the lights out last night, the blue UV lighting actually travels up the clear pvc hose....looks like a fiber optic. LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> That looks great Tony. I was wondering when you would post up the 4xFX5 shot.  Now you can clean one filter every 2 weeks and rotate through. Since all the media is the same, no wastage. I should have done that off the bat. Now I have Eheim classics, pro2's, pro3's, XP3, Fluval, etc. So annoying as I have to keep some of everything.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The Purigen will definitely remove the tannins. It's very noticeable in my tanks. I have 2 running Purigen and 1 without. Works great for removing tannins and general clarity.

I hear ya on the geek factor too.


----------



## tony1928

How often have you been regenerating the Purigen?



2wheelsx2 said:


> The Purigen will definitely remove the tannins. It's very noticeable in my tanks. I have 2 running Purigen and 1 without. Works great for removing tannins and general clarity.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> How often have you been regenerating the Purigen?


I was only regenerating the Purigen every other filter maintenance in the FX5 in the beginning, but found it wasn't often enough. Now I do it every time, which is about every 6 - 8 weeks, depending on how the tank looks. A lot of it depends on how often I feed yams and zucchini.


----------



## tony1928

Cool, what's your process for regeneration? I'll probably need to pick up another litre bottle.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I was only regenerating the Purigen every other filter maintenance in the FX5 in the beginning, but found it wasn't often enough. Now I do it every time, which is about every 6 - 8 weeks, depending on how the tank looks. A lot of it depends on how often I feed yams and zucchini.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Cool, what's your process for regeneration? I'll probably need to pick up another litre bottle.


I don't follow as strictly as the Seachem site. I use 100% bleach as I was told by many on plantedtank that it works better and lo and behold, it does. I let it sit for a couple of hours and then I rinse it a bit (so I don't bleach my hands) and then "massage" it a bit to get the stuff in the center to the outside, as I found the bleach doesn't reach all parts of the bag. In retrospect, I should have used 2 bags and just spread it thinner for more contact.

After 24 hours, I rinse thoroughly, and sometimes bleach again if I still see brown. If after a second time there is still a lot of brown, that bag is toast. Usually it'll be all white (with the odd brownish spot here and there) after this. I then set it in some dechlorinator and let it work for an hour or so and then rinse with fresh water.

I never did the dechlorinator step in the past, as I only used it in my 125, but I started using it in my 15 gallon also and noticed my fish were in distress so maybe there was a bit of residue. In my 125 I figure it's so dilute it's irrelevant, but I still do it now.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks for the tips Gary. I think I already see the tannins being reduced after only a day. Whatever this stuff is, its quite remarkable.


----------



## thefishwife

THANK YOU, THANK YOU - the pics are great, OMG such beautfiul colours with the fish - Uaru they are great fish.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Kim! The Uaru are really fun to watch. Like puppies with their big ol' eyes. They compete for with the rest of the swarm now that they are comfortable in their surroundings. I wish I had about two more.



thefishwife said:


> THANK YOU, THANK YOU - the pics are great, OMG such beautfiul colours with the fish - Uaru they are great fish.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Can't you get more from Anessa or will they be too small?


----------



## Smiladon

2wheelsx2 said:


> Can't you get more from Anessa or will they be too small?


They are probably too small...

Maybe you can contact ninez (zenin from the old forum) as he had a few orange eye'd Uraus which are good size. Not sure if he would sell them or not though. 

(I didn't chat with him for a while now...)


----------



## tony1928

I was hoping to get the sp. orange variant which is an orange bodied fish. Not sure if Anessa's are of that variety. Also, I'd probably have to grow those out.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Can't you get more from Anessa or will they be too small?


He actually offered to sell me some of his, however I never got a chance to go out to his place. Again, as per above, I'm looking for the sp. orange which has the orangish body.



Smiladon said:


> They are probably too small...
> 
> Maybe you can contact ninez (zenin from the old forum) as he had a few orange eye'd Uraus which are good size. Not sure if he would sell them or not though.
> 
> (I didn't chat with him for a while now...)


----------



## tony1928

So now that the tank is done, I'm starting to wonder about stocking. I'm not totally enamored with the peacock bass anymore as they really limit what I can keep in the tank. I'm not actively looking to sell them yet but if anyone's interested please PM. 

So, based on what I have in the tank (in sig) what do you guys think I should be looking to add? I think I find the most enjoyment in a nice community tank setup where the fish are not out to eat each other (on purpose). A little colour would be nice too. 

My next project will be to do the lighting for this tank. I've already bought 36 LED "stars" for the project and pretty much have everything I need except for the frame which the LED's will attach to. Brainstorming for ideas right now. The frame will be made out of standard aluminum channel or angle stock. Probably most cost effective that way. Also, it needs to be aluminum to act as a heatsink for the LED's. I will be attaching some heatsinks to the frame as well to provide more material for the heat to go to. I haven't drawn this out yet, but I think the basic layout will just be a rectangle aluminum frame, almost 8 feet long and about a foot or so deep. The LED's will mount to this frame. I will then put some vertical pieces of aluminum tube to act as feet to elevate the lights off the tank to provide easy access to the tank. I was thinking of hanging this off my ceiling but right now, I'm not sure. I also want to cover this thing as it would look a bit too raw for my liking. Thinking of basically building a black acrylic box to go over top that drops over the whole thing, supported by the vertical aluminum tubes. So maybe the rectangular LED frame attaches mid way up the "legs" which would be about a foot long. The acrylic box would sit on the top of those legs. To keep costs down though, I might just do black acrylic panels and attach them to the front of the light frame. Basically it will be a "top-less" box. Probably would help the heat dissipate as well. Thoughts?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Blue Eye Pleco? It would fit right in. 

I think you're going the right path. Those P. Bass look nice, but are fast swimmers and strong predators so really limit what you can put in there.

I don't have any suggestions for you, as anything I would suggest would be fairly common like Oscars and GT's.


----------



## silvciv888

big geo and discus colonies.


----------



## tony1928

Hey Max, Always looking for more big Geo's. Thinking Pellegrini's if they are available and maybe some Satanoperca family. Discus, I dunno...I'm not sure how good the water maintenance would have to be to keep em in this tank. Perhaps wild discus...but haven't done much research there.



silvciv888 said:


> big geo and discus colonies.


----------



## tony1928

LOL, the blue eye would add some nice blue to the tank eh? Would chew up the acrylic tho....haha, too bad.

The pbass are super fast and aggressive when it comes to food....they don't bother with the other fish right now..but who knows about later. They are only about 9-10" right now.

I always grapple with tankmates for this tank. Thought about oscars too, but not sure if I like their possible aggression and size...esp considering I'm looking at moving the pbass.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Blue Eye Pleco? It would fit right in.
> 
> I think you're going the right path. Those P. Bass look nice, but are fast swimmers and strong predators so really limit what you can put in there.
> 
> I don't have any suggestions for you, as anything I would suggest would be fairly common like Oscars and GT's.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> I always grapple with tankmates for this tank. Thought about oscars too, but not sure if I like their possible aggression and size...esp considering I'm looking at moving the pbass.


All the Oscars I have ever had (5 or 6 now) are mainly wimps with big mouths. If it can fit in there, they'll try to eat it, but they get outcompeted for food all the time. The only fish wimpier than my O's is my Chocolate Cichlid. That's another good option to go. Calm, slow, and mouth is not too big. Interesting colours too.

I know it doesn't fit your biotope, but I know a guy that's interested in getting rid of a regular JD and 2 EBJD's for a very reasonable price


----------



## Smiladon

Not sure if this will help, but if I had a 400Gallon tank, I would seriously think about stocking it with a school of Altum Angels.

I understand that it doesn't fit your biotype right now, but if you ever decide to go Discus (wild?) then Altums would be a nice counterpart. One thing I love about Cichlids are the fact that they have character and personality, thats why most (all) of my fish are cichlids


----------



## tony1928

Been reading up on discus and more and more it doesn't feel like it would be doable for me as they might be a bit too skittish for my geos. Basically trying to create a nice community of SA fish. Hoping to create a couple of different areas that the different groups can stake out. Something that would add a bit of colour would be nice but really not sure if that's possible. Thought about adding some severums as I have a couple in another tank. I dunno...I just don't think they fit the look for some reason. I may add a few more different Geos perhaps. Going to pick up a few more Uaru this weekend as well to add to my 3.


----------



## Smiladon

Talk to Kolewolf. I think he had Discus with a variety of fish (not domestic obviously).

Check his video out. It has pbass, silver/black arowanas, rays and Discus (Tefe?) all together.
YouTube - 250G Cichla 4.14.2010.MPG


----------



## bonsai dave

tony1928 said:


> Been reading up on discus and more and more it doesn't feel like it would be doable for me as they might be a bit too skittish for my geos. Basically trying to create a nice community of SA fish. Hoping to create a couple of different areas that the different groups can stake out. Something that would add a bit of colour would be nice but really not sure if that's possible. Thought about adding some severums as I have a couple in another tank. I dunno...I just don't think they fit the look for some reason. I may add a few more different Geos perhaps. Going to pick up a few more Uaru this weekend as well to add to my 3.


When you get ride of the p bass the discus will be fine. It does take them a few weeks to get use to their surrounding. My fish took a while to get comfortable. Now they swim around my hand when i'm doing any cleaning in the tank and same with my wild silver. Plus when ever i come in to the room they rush to the top of the tank and wait for me to feed them. Your tank is big enough to for the geos to leave them a lone . I wouldn't go any smaller than 4 in discus. I would cover the side of the tank near the door way it will help. to clam to fish when you enter the room..


----------



## tony1928

Thanks for the input guys. Tefe's would look great in this tank. Definitely no domestics. The top of the water column should be pretty open. Though the geos pretty use the whole tank especially during the feeding frenzy. Discus certainly worth consideration. They are so beautiful. I will be posting the pbass for sale soon.


----------



## bonsai dave

tony1928 said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Tefe's would look great in this tank. Definitely no domestics. The top of the water column should be pretty open. Though the geos pretty use the whole tank especially during the feeding frenzy. Discus certainly worth consideration. They are so beautiful. I will be posting the pbass for sale soon.


When you are ready to get some wild discus you should check out oliver he brings in some nice wilds. here is his web site.Belowwater.com Rare Fish Blog


----------



## tony1928

So finally, I sold all my peacock bass and I'm down to what I could call community fish. Thanks to all my buyers. They are all in good homes now. 

Catching an 7" fish in a 400g tank proved to be challenging so I ended up building my own tank divider to help corral the fish into one area so I can net them. I saw a couple of diy threads that used sheets of rigid mesh plastic canvas that's used for crafts...needlework or something like that. Measured out the width and height of my tank, and basically cut and connected the plastic sheets together with zip ties to form a large sheet that's custom fitted to the tank. Then bought suction cups (one's that have that metal hook on them used to hang stuff) and connected through the holes in the plastic sheets. Done. Took about an hour cuz I was trying to be all perfect with the sizing and cuts and zip ties. Anyways, I'll post a pic later but what you end up with is a plastic mesh wall that connects to the tank via suction cups. It's enough to keep fish separated or corralled at least on a temporary and even on a permanent basis. The suction cups are strong enough to keep that wall there permanently. 

Anyhow, now that the pbass are gone, I can continue to add a few more fish to my tank. Still thinking about a small group of wild discus as I want to add a splash of colour and also something that would live in the upper part of the water. Any thoughts?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Do you think that the discus will be able to compete for food properly in that tank? I would consider adding another group of Geos myself (actually I'm leaning that way even for my tank now, as the maintenance issue has me worried).


----------



## Smiladon

2wheelsx2 said:


> Do you think that the discus will be able to compete for food properly in that tank? I would consider adding another group of Geos myself (actually I'm leaning that way even for my tank now, as the maintenance issue has me worried).


Discus eat like pigs once they get used to their new sorroundings.

If you are going Discus, make sure to get 5"+ if you can (minimum of 4"-4.5"...but bigger the better). You can get 8-12 ($ permitting) and watch them school


----------



## Smiladon

forgot to mention!

When you get your Discus, make sure you ask the seller what they feed the Discus. It is hard to switch them over to a different food (atleast I found it hard) as it sometimes takes quite a while before they accept a different food and thats not good in a community tank with other big fish.

Maybe the Discus experts can chime in on this part  (any inputs April?  )


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Smiladon said:


> forgot to mention!
> 
> When you get your Discus, make sure you ask the seller what they feed the Discus. It is hard to switch them over to a different food (atleast I found it hard) as it sometimes takes quite a while before they accept a different food and thats not good in a community tank with other big fish.
> 
> Maybe the Discus experts can chime in on this part  (any inputs April?  )


If he gets them from Charles they'll be eating LBW and Tetra colorbits.


----------



## tony1928

Hahaha, thanks guys for the input. All my fish eat colorbits too so that's a good thing. The Geo's are not picky eaters, nor are any of the other current tankmates. They will pretty well eat anything right now. I'll have to talk to Charles to see what he's bringing in next. I'm glad my pbass are gone now...opens up a whole new world of tankmates. I watched them go into the buyer's huge 450g tank last night.....they are the small fry of that tank which was full of huge fish like a silver aro, huge clown knife, RTC. I thought the RTC was gonna gobble up one of the pbass right in front of me as the pbass was still acclimatizing to the new tank and resting on the bottom. 

This discus idea though...has got me thinking. Bah...I gotta work on my lights. Not being able to see the fish in their full glory is bugging me even though I know the fish don't mind the dim tank at all. Probably prefer it that way.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> This discus idea though...has got me thinking. Bah...I gotta work on my lights. Not being able to see the fish in their full glory is bugging me even though I know the fish don't mind the dim tank at all. Probably prefer it that way.


They do prefer it that way in general, especially the discus. I was inspired by a tank on SimplyDiscus that was mainly lit by wide angle LED's. I'm going to be using LED moonlights as my main viewing lights (even though I may not go discus), and only light up the fluorescents for part of the viewing period, just for the small amount of plants I am planning.


----------



## tony1928

Yes, I noticed all the reef guys want lenses for their LED's for greater intensity but I'd rather have the opposite which is diffuse light. Just using it for general lighting and not looking to do plants. I went with the kit from rapidled.com so hopefully I can put it all together in a relatively elegant manner and have a decent looking light. Time to head to home depot for some inspiration. 



2wheelsx2 said:


> They do prefer it that way in general, especially the discus. I was inspired by a tank on SimplyDiscus that was mainly lit by wide angle LED's. I'm going to be using LED moonlights as my main viewing lights (even though I may not go discus), and only light up the fluorescents for part of the viewing period, just for the small amount of plants I am planning.


----------



## tony1928

I've been taking a bit of a break from the tank build...we'll the tank is done but to finish it off, I'll have to do the light canopy. I had a heck of a time trying to figure out how to build the aluminum frame needed as I'm going to be doing LED's using kits I bought from Rapid LED Home Page. The basic idea is that I will build a box frame out of aluminum and glue the LED's to that. Then I will cover the box in wood/acrylic/whatever to serve as the skin. After alot of thought and research, I happened up this product called Quick Frame from this company called 80/20. Quick Frame Introduction It's basically a snap together aluminum framing system that you can cover with whatever you want. Have a look if you want. Anyhow, I haven't started yet but I will probably begin getting things together in the next week or two.

In the meantime, I've picked up a bunch of juvenile eartheaters. Geophagus Tapajos, Geophagus Pellegrini and Satanoperca Daemon (I think). They are all growing out in my 33g.

Here's a few pics of the fishies:

















Some Pellegrini...I hope that they are. Really hard to tell if they are until they are more mature. They are on the yellow side but again, too early to tell. 








A Geophagus Tapajos. Can anyone tell if that's fin rot on him?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nice...Did you get those from Graeme on the Island?


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I got the Tapajos from a friend who did a big order from Graeme. He asked me if I wanted to take some off his hands. The Pellegrini I bought online from the states.


----------



## clintgv

Nice tank. Fish looks great .


----------



## thefishwife

Yipeeeeeeeeeee more pics! I swear Tony I am gonna come out to your house one day and look at this monster tank!!!


----------



## Kitsune

tony1928 said:


> I've been taking a bit of a break from the tank build...we'll the tank is done but to finish it off, I'll have to do the light canopy. I had a heck of a time trying to figure out how to build the aluminum frame needed as I'm going to be doing LED's using kits I bought from Rapid LED Home Page.


Hey, how did you find your experience with RapidLED? I'm thinking of getting some LED's for my tank as well, but I dislike buying stuff online from unknown sellers (never know when you are giving out your Visa Number to a criminal, or how fast you can get your stuff).


----------



## tony1928

Well if you're ever out this way, you are more than welcomed Kim!


----------



## thefishwife

tony1928 said:


> Well if you're ever out this way, you are more than welcomed Kim!


Sweet!!! I will keep that in mind!!!


----------



## Marius

Hey Tony, looks great.

If you're going for a SA biotope with geos and all, look into Satanopercas  ...Jurupari or Pappaterra. That wood leeches enough tanins and softens the water fast. If you stay away from more susceptible species like Daemon, you'll have some nice additions to the tank.

Awesome job with the tank too, nice to see you plumbed the back. I'll give you a shout when I come home, it would be nice to see it up and running. My emperors are gone, they busted the 300gal glass tank one day, I just found out, and they went bye bye. Too bad I didn't have time to drop them at Grant's, I'll miss those buggers.


----------



## tony1928

Hey Marius,

Nice to have you back on the new BCA.

The big piece of wood is great and works as a nice water softener...even though our water is pretty soft already. I'm only doing about a 30% water change every two weeks and so far the water tests fine and the fish are happy. I have some juvie Daemon so I'll see how they work out once I grow them out a little bit more before introducing them to the big tank. I may sell the H.Psittacus in the future. I love them but I'm keeping an eye on them to see if they might become a little too rough and tumble for the geos.

I can't believe the emperors are gone...such a nice fish. Too bad, though I think its quite hard for most people to keep given their sheer size.

Hope everything is going well with the wife and baby.



Marius said:


> Hey Tony, looks great.
> 
> If you're going for a SA biotope with geos and all, look into Satanopercas  ...Jurupari or Pappaterra. That wood leeches enough tanins and softens the water fast. If you stay away from more susceptible species like Daemon, you'll have some nice additions to the tank.
> 
> Awesome job with the tank too, nice to see you plumbed the back. I'll give you a shout when I come home, it would be nice to see it up and running. My emperors are gone, they busted the 300gal glass tank one day, I just found out, and they went bye bye. Too bad I didn't have time to drop them at Grant's, I'll miss those buggers.


----------



## Marius

tony1928 said:


> I have some juvie Daemon so I'll see how they work out once I grow them out a little bit more before introducing them to the big tank. I may sell the H.Psittacus in the future. I love them but I'm keeping an eye on them to see if they might become a little too rough and tumble for the geos.


Yeah, the parrots will demolish the geos at full size. They're playing a different ball game. Cool fish though, and it might work if you put some more driftwood, rocks, something to break the line of sight, and cut down the territorial aggression. There's plenty of space there, try it out.

Daemon: watch for HIH signs, if the water is not soft enough for them (in the wild I think they have some ridiculously low levels, Amazon black water is usually 5 or under pH). So, watch for those dreaded hole-in-the-head depressions, because as soon as they come the fish will melt 



tony1928 said:


> I can't believe the emperors are gone...such a nice fish. Too bad, though I think its quite hard for most people to keep given their sheer size.
> 
> Hope everything is going well with the wife and baby.


It wasn't the size of the tank, 300 gal, plenty of space. Male and female fought, as they usually did when courting, and the male busted the front glass. I just found out too, at least the frontosas are ok.

Should have, could have, would have. Remember when we were moving the tank that I mentioned I was supposed to bring them to Grant for his freshwater expo tank? Well, I had to leave before I had the time to do so, and then I just needed to be away from fish for a while.

Wife and baby are fine. The little guy is so big man, 16 months old and I think he's close to 3' tall. I'm sure he will slow down, but at the rate his going I'm afraid I'll need an extra fridge soon.


----------



## simonfish

Daemon: watch for HIH signs, if the water is not soft enough for them (in the wild I think they have some ridiculously low levels, Amazon black water is usually 5 or under pH). So, watch for those dreaded hole-in-the-head depressions, because as soon as they come the fish will melt 

Thanks for the information, I have Daemon same as Tony and I have a larger Satanoperca Leucosticta w/ HIH problem. How to make the water more soft, is it right to add more wood, change water more often, I know some people add crushed coral or put oyster shell into their filter system, should I remove them? There are some water treatments to lower the PH, will that help?


----------



## Marius

simonfish said:


> Thanks for the information, I have Daemon same as Tony and I have a larger Satanoperca Leucosticta w/ HIH problem. How to make the water more soft, is it right to add more wood, change water more often, I know some people add crushed coral or put oyster shell into their filter system, should I remove them? There are some water treatments to lower the PH, will that help?


Daemon are one specie that won't acclimatize to harder water, so for water changes use aged water (couple days, keep some spare driftwood around in a container -plastic or tank- and have a powerhead with air source run in it for a couple days; that and adding some water conditioner will take care of things).

Any corals, aragonite, shells and so on, remove them all. Extra wood, dried almond leaves to soften and acidify the water. You can pretty much dump a bagfull of leaves in there, the Satanopercas will love their effects.

As for preventing pH crashes and helping with the natural filtration, I'd use plants, Anubias in particular, they're hardy and good at burning nitrates. That and good filtration should do the trick.

I don't want people to be afraid of Satanopercas, they are simply stunning fish, they just need some more attention than your average SA, and a little more tlc


----------



## Graeme

I keep 6 H.Psittacus with 4 Satanoperca deamon in a 180 gallon with no issues whats so ever. I have also kept the Parrots with Geophagus Altifrons and Geophagus Argyrostictus no issues at all. My male parrots are pushing 12 inches and male Deamon 10.
The parrots chase the other fish but never inflict any damage.


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I agree with you. However, I think having the big parrots in there just limits what smaller fish I can put in. I'd have to likely grow out fish to around 3-4" before introducing them into the tank. I do like the parrots alot. They are really starting to grow now...My big one is probably around 9" or so and growing fast.



Graeme said:


> I keep 6 H.Psittacus with 4 Satanoperca deamon in a 180 gallon with no issues whats so ever. I have also kept the Parrots with Geophagus Altifrons and Geophagus Argyrostictus no issues at all. My male parrots are pushing 12 inches and male Deamon 10.
> The parrots chase the other fish but never inflict any damage.


----------



## charles

Marius said:


> Daemon are one specie that won't acclimatize to harder water, so for water changes use aged water (couple days, keep some spare driftwood around in a container -plastic or tank- and have a powerhead with air source run in it for a couple days; that and adding some water conditioner will take care of things).
> 
> Any corals, aragonite, shells and so on, remove them all. Extra wood, dried almond leaves to soften and acidify the water. You can pretty much dump a bagfull of leaves in there, the Satanopercas will love their effects.
> 
> As for preventing pH crashes and helping with the natural filtration, I'd use plants, Anubias in particular, they're hardy and good at burning nitrates. That and good filtration should do the trick.
> 
> I don't want people to be afraid of Satanopercas, they are simply stunning fish, they just need some more attention than your average SA, and a little more tlc


You have been doing a bit of googling... 

HITH is related to water quality issue mostly. Very rare because of stress of water chemsity.

I have also kept my daemon, both 2"-3" fish and 7"-8" fish in a higher ph tank at 6.8 without issue for a while now. I have crushed coral in one tank to stable ph yet on the other tank, I have oyster shell.

Like other fish, keep your water quality up. Feed good food and not to overfeed. And your fish will be fine. I really think the key is water quality and food amount.


----------



## tony1928

I really am starting to hate being tied down to a single tank. Yeah, its big but still only one. I am contemplating going back to an African haps/peacock setup. I just love the color and the variety of fish that I can get. I love my earth eaters but they just aren't doing it for me. Also the family keep complaining that all the fish are so boring looking. Go figure. 

So now I got 8 feet and 400 gallons to work with. I think it could be a really cool African setup. I know that keeping mbuna and haps/peacocks together is usually a bad idea but I'm trying to research to see if its possible. ie. a rockpile at one end of the tank...maybe taking up 2 feet and then the rest is open water. Any thoughts and suggestions and recommendations would be much appreciated. 

Hmmmmm.....I could be having some fish for sale soon....


----------



## charles

tony, i always like lake tang. your tank will make a good lake tang biotope.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Get some Discus. That should keep it from being boring.


----------



## ninez

tony1928 said:


> I really am starting to hate being tied down to a single tank. Yeah, its big but still only one. I am contemplating going back to an African haps/peacock setup. I just love the color and the variety of fish that I can get. I love my earth eaters but they just aren't doing it for me. Also the family keep complaining that all the fish are so boring looking. Go figure.
> 
> So now I got 8 feet and 400 gallons to work with. I think it could be a really cool African setup. I know that keeping mbuna and haps/peacocks together is usually a bad idea but I'm trying to research to see if its possible. ie. a rockpile at one end of the tank...maybe taking up 2 feet and then the rest is open water. Any thoughts and suggestions and recommendations would be much appreciated.
> 
> Hmmmmm.....I could be having some fish for sale soon....




I love my 125G mix-anything-african tank  with all the *color* and all the chasing around  Now I want to get a 180G


----------



## tony1928

Haha Gary, I dunno, never quite got into the Discus game. They are really beautiful though so I can see why people love them. If I had the ability to keep a half dozen or so tanks, definitely they would get a tank.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Get some Discus. That should keep it from being boring.


The mixed african tank is pretty cool. The only thing I didn't like before in my previous African experience was the nasty killings that happened due to space limitations and lack of territory. I suppose that will happen with any fish. My parrot took a chunk out of my big Uaru. Lucky the Uaru is big and was able to recover from it. I didn't do anything to help, just let the fish heal on its own.



ninez said:


> I love my 125G mix-anything-african tank  with all the *color* and all the chasing around  Now I want to get a 180G


I'll have to take a look at what's available there...never really got into Tang before, other than Tropheus. I'm not a big Front guy either. I'm not big into the timid fishes that have a need to hide all day. In fact, I've only just rediscovered my Irwini cat fish the other day. Thought it died or something....Then one night, I happened to walk by and there it was....nice and fat. Nothing like the Niger....that guy comes out to eat with the rest of the fish. Even my Tig cat comes out to play.



charles said:


> tony, i always like lake tang. your tank will make a good lake tang biotope.


----------



## tony1928

Hmm.....I know this is probably gonna complicate the heck out of things, but I'm now really wondering if it is even feasible to do the mbuna rock area on one side of my 8 foot tank and leave the rest open for haps and peacocks. Or am I just asking for trouble and death.....

This is what I've thinking for the 8 foot length:



ROCKS 
ROCKS
ROCKSROCKS
ROCKSROCKSXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

So about 2 feet worth of rocky goodness and the rest wide open...with a few large boulders thrown in here and there to help break sight lines.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Aren't the rocks going to scratch the heck out of that nice acrylic tank you buffed out?


----------



## Mferko

try a tang biotope imo and mebbe add some peacocks if you really like them, you can get lots of color without adding mbuna.
mebbe a huge school of colorful cyps or paracyps along with some nice calvus/comps and definitely get a pair of gobies! 
regardless of what you decide im interested to see how it turns out, i love africans and rly want to do a big tang biotope in a tank like urs one day


----------



## tony1928

The rocks won't be quite resting against the side of the tank. I wasn't sure how to draw it any other way using just the keyboard. LOL. I want to be still able to clean the viewing area. I might "glue" a few rocks together to form a frame work to lean the rocks against to build my pile. Dunno yet...haven't really put much thought into it.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Aren't the rocks going to scratch the heck out of that nice acrylic tank you buffed out?


----------



## tony1928

Definitely thinking about the Tangs as well. However, I'm bending on this biotope thing nowadays....given that I only have the one tank. We'll see...thanks for the input tho!



Mferko said:


> try a tang biotope imo and mebbe add some peacocks if you really like them, you can get lots of color without adding mbuna.
> mebbe a huge school of colorful cyps or paracyps along with some nice calvus/comps and definitely get a pair of gobies!


----------



## Mferko

i have yellow labs and even a baby female demasoni in with my tangs so im not one to critisize haha, get what you enjoy watching the most and youl be happy


----------



## ninez

Get some leleupi 

Maybe get 50 of them in the 400G


----------



## tony1928

Haha, I said I want variety!!!! I'm kinda blown away by those malawi tanks that have like 75-100 fish in em. Not sure if I would do that but the amount of activity in them is awesome.



ninez said:


> Get some leleupi
> 
> Maybe get 50 of them in the 400G


----------



## charles

Tony, if you decide to do a mix male only peacock/hap/mbuna tank, do min. rock structure. Perhpas big blouders stand alone just to break the line of sight. No place to guard = no flighting...


----------



## ninez

charles said:


> Tony, if you decide to do a mix male only peacock/hap/mbuna tank, do min. rock structure. Perhpas big blouders stand alone just to break the line of sight. No place to guard = no flighting...


ahh.. no place to guard = no fighting..

that's why i see my demasoni male is taking over a rock pile. 

THX


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Charles, that makes complete sense. 

I remember it was such a challenge to actually collect all these awesome looking fish....especially difficult if you just want males. It was alot of fun.


----------



## tony1928

Do you think that I could mix haps/peacocks and mbuna? I've been reading alot of reports to say avoid the mbuna in that mix.



charles said:


> Tony, if you decide to do a mix male only peacock/hap/mbuna tank, do min. rock structure. Perhpas big blouders stand alone just to break the line of sight. No place to guard = no flighting...


----------



## ninez

tony1928 said:


> Haha, I said I want variety!!!! I'm kinda blown away by those malawi tanks that have like 75-100 fish in em. Not sure if I would do that but the amount of activity in them is awesome.


leleupi is tiny. You can have lots with other mbuna


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, they are cute. Though they might just end up food for the Haps and Peacocks! expensive little snacks!



ninez said:


> leleupi is tiny. You can have lots with other mbuna


----------



## ngo911

Oh man.... I can only dream of doing a 400g African.. that would be awesome. Personally, I would go with either an all Mbuna tank or a Mbuna/Male Peacock. If you go with Mbuna/Male Peacock, you may be limiting yourself from some of the more aggressive mbunas. With an all Mbuna, and with a tank that size, I think your options are unlimited. An all Mbuna would be like watching an action movie 24/7.

Looking forward to seeing the tank if you do decide to do it.


----------



## charles

tony1928 said:


> Yeah, they are cute. Though they might just end up food for the Haps and Peacocks! expensive little snacks!


actually, leleupi will over run your tank. They are nasty little thing.

You can mix mbuna/hap/peacock all together. Make sure you overcrowded them. and no rock pile.


----------



## effox

That's one hardcore project man, I'm very impressed.


----------



## Rayne

I absolutely love huge African tanks. I've been drooling over this Mbuna 180G tank for a while and will be using it as inspiration for when I can afford to build my monster 300G tank hopefully next year sometime. This is Pomi's tank from another forum. Absolutely beautiful!









Your 400G is MASSIVE and has some huge potential.


----------



## ninez

I have nice color with common africans already in my 125G.

I have red empress/blue cobalt/yellow labs/demasoni/red top zebra/acei/leleupi.
I wish I have more room  The 125G is full of activity.


----------



## tony1928

Go big or go home eh? LOL. Thanks for the kind words. With 2 little kids at home, it keeps me sane.



effox said:


> That's one hardcore project man, I'm very impressed.


----------



## tony1928

Wow, that's a beautiful tank. I'm thinking of taking Charles' advice and do a mix of mbuna/hap/peacock. Just have no rock piles....gonna find me a few "monolithic" looking granite boulders to add breaks to the sightlines...no caves, no rock piles. I've also seen huge tanks that have no aquascaping at all and those are loaded with a huge mix of fish. I guess its the huge overcrowding that makes it work.



Rayne said:


> I absolutely love huge African tanks. I've been drooling over this Mbuna 180G tank for a while and will be using it as inspiration for when I can afford to build my monster 300G tank hopefully next year sometime. This is Pomi's tank from another forum. Absolutely beautiful!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your 400G is MASSIVE and has some huge potential.


----------



## tony1928

Here's a few pics of my current inhabitants...at least the one's I could get a decent pic of.

Weak attempt at a full tank shot:










My 9" Geophagus Altifrons

















Some of my Uaru 6-9". Also some of my parrots in there too. 









Guianacara Orewefi 4-5" Pretty cool fish. 









My Tigrinus catfish about 8 - 9" Love this guy.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Tony, that's a great looking tank. I can't believe you're going to change it. I guess it's tough to just have one tank. I'm going to be finding out when I reduce from 3 to 2 when the 100 gallon is up. It does limit your options as to what you can keep.


----------



## thefishwife

Wow Tony great looking tank, still love that piece of wood. Fish look extremely healthy and happy!


----------



## Peterchow

tony1928 said:


> Wow, that's a beautiful tank. I'm thinking of taking Charles' advice and do a mix of mbuna/hap/peacock. Just have no rock piles....gonna find me a few "monolithic" looking granite boulders to add breaks to the sightlines...no caves, no rock piles. I've also seen huge tanks that have no aquascaping at all and those are loaded with a huge mix of fish. I guess its the huge overcrowding that makes it work.


Hi Tony,

Time for a change after all those hard works of setting up your 400 G. I like your current setting but moving ahead is a good sign. I am the same way with my fish. On thing for sure is all members will benefit from your generosity when you start unloading your old fish. You have a special way to grow your young juvies. I still have your 2 NTT tigers and they are doing very well, as well as 3 remaining red hooks.

Looking forward to view your new setting.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks for the comments Peter. I'll probably be posting the FS this weekend on the livestock. I'm in no hurry but sometimes moving fish takes a while, especially given the size of some of these fish. I'm looking forward to the new project. I'm a real sucker for color so it would seem.



Peterchow said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> Time for a change after all those hard works of setting up your 400 G. I like your current setting but moving ahead is a good sign. I am the same way with my fish. On thing for sure is all members will benefit from your generosity when you start unloading your old fish. You have a special way to grow your young juvies. I still have your 2 NTT tigers and they are doing very well, as well as 3 remaining red hooks.
> 
> Looking forward to view your new setting.


----------



## tony1928

Gary, its soooooo tough having just the one tank. Maintenance wise, yeah, its fantastic. But having to just pick one group of fish to keep is impossible. I think the africans will keep everyone happy though. I really enjoyed mine before and I think the big tank will really open up the possibilities of having a massive amount of super colorful fish in there.

I do have a 33g running on the side which I've been using as a growout for my daemon and redheads....those guys are growing out nicely. It'll hurt me to have to sell the redheads....I think I'll grow them out some more before I sell em. I just don't want to stunt them in a 33g.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Tony, that's a great looking tank. I can't believe you're going to change it. I guess it's tough to just have one tank. I'm going to be finding out when I reduce from 3 to 2 when the 100 gallon is up. It does limit your options as to what you can keep.


----------



## silvciv888

like chucky said, use rocks to break line-of-sight and either minimize rockpiles (no territory to defend) or increase rockpiles (so everybody has a home).

i have kept the two fish together and it was okay. there was a bit of chasing and deaths of the runts. another problem i found was two individuals or groups sharing a similar color pattern - like peacocks.

where u gonna order your fish?


----------



## Mferko

hopefully the lack of territories and females will keep things from getting out of hand
(your going to have all male mbuna and peacock right? or just all male peacock with male and female mbuna?)
id go for a pure male setup i think and crowd the hell out of it if i was attempting that, if not you might have to use that 33G as a triage ward lol

have you looked at the tanganyikan cyps? you can get alot of color from these schooling fish with zero aggression.
one day i wanna get a massive school of them i think it would be so mesmerizing. i plan to have gobies and calvus/comps along with a huge school of those. i want some featherfins and fronts too but my wife thinks theyre ugly


----------



## tony1928

Hey Max,

I'm hoping that the big tank will allow fish to coexist a bit better. I'll use some tall rocks to help break line of sight. I wonder how many fish it will take to achieve overcrowding?!? 

Not sure where to order yet. I might do a US order and pick it up myself too. Not a whole lot of local selection. And if I want an all male tank, it'll be tough to sex juvies. So I'm still trying to figure it out. People say try not to introduce adult fish, but I think that'll be harder than it sounds. Also keeping a single male of each species seems tough too. Thoughts? I'm hoping to have at least 50 fish.



silvciv888 said:


> like chucky said, use rocks to break line-of-sight and either minimize rockpiles (no territory to defend) or increase rockpiles (so everybody has a home).
> 
> i have kept the two fish together and it was okay. there was a bit of chasing and deaths of the runts. another problem i found was two individuals or groups sharing a similar color pattern - like peacocks.
> 
> where u gonna order your fish?


----------



## tony1928

I would definitely do a school of cyps if I went tang....but so far, I'm finding malawi's too hard to resist.

Yeah, no fish with big humps on their heads...wife thinks its gross. ie. Flowerhorn. Juvy fronts are fun to watch...dunno why they get so sedentary and slow when they mature.



Mferko said:


> have you looked at the tanganyikan cyps? you can get alot of color from these schooling fish with zero aggression.
> one day i wanna get a massive school of them i think it would be so mesmerizing. i plan to have gobies and calvus/comps along with a huge school of those. i want some featherfins and fronts too but my wife thinks theyre ugly


----------



## thefishwife

yyyaaaaaaaaaaa malawi's!!! Cant wait to see the pics of the tank and fish when you get them. It is hard to decide, have fun Tony!


----------



## tony1928

Hi Kim,

It's been a strange journey back to malawi's. That's what I started with 20 years ago as that was what as available. They seem to have all but disappeared on the local scene or at least at the LFS level. I'll probably have to do alot of group buys via Spencer or US retailers. 



thefishwife said:


> yyyaaaaaaaaaaa malawi's!!! Cant wait to see the pics of the tank and fish when you get them. It is hard to decide, have fun Tony!


----------



## silvciv888

oh man i'm down to get into that groupbuy.
personally i'd grab a bunch of young adults or adults that are fully colored.

the cruddy thing is that the dominant one in a group will have amazing colors. this causes the subdominants to have subtle or bland colors. 

w/ your tank, a group of 50+ adults (males) would be super awesome.


----------



## thefishwife

Ya its true the LFS don't have that much and they are hard to find, depending on what you want. I know when I was looking for mine it was hard, but glad I found them locally.


----------



## Mferko

if you do a group buy from anywhere that has wild caught tanganyikan gobies im gonna be on that like a fat kid on a smartie


----------



## tony1928

Haha, will let you know. I'll be compiling my buy list soon as i'm selling off my livestock as we speak. Hope to have the tank cleared in two weeks.



Mferko said:


> if you do a group buy from anywhere that has wild caught tanganyikan gobies im gonna be on that like a fat kid on a smartie


----------



## tony1928

Well, I think I'll be able to clear out my SA livestock faster than I thought. Tonite a BCA member came by and bought all my fish with the exception of a few fish that I'm holding for other BCA members. 

I think I'll be shopping for haps and peacocks soon! Anyone got some for sale locally, please let me know! I think I'm going try to do an all male show tank. Thx!


----------



## silvciv888

wow. that guy must love the geos......welcome back to malawi!


----------



## tony1928

Haha, no, Geos on hold for someone else. The guy took everything else. It was hilarious as we were trying to catch them all....400g has way too many places to hide. Yes, onward with the malawi show!

Buying hap/peacock males looks like its gonna be a bit of an investment. Buying juveniles though....I'm not sure I will have patience for that. I know that everyone says that for all male tanks, the key is to only keep one of each species (or at least that they all look different)...but given my tank size, do you guys think that I can keep more than one of each? I just don't know if I could find 50 fish that look different.



silvciv888 said:


> wow. that guy must love the geos......welcome back to malawi!


----------



## silvciv888

it will be an investment. a lot of peacocks look the same w/ the blue & red coloration but patterning is different. u wont find 50 different ones but you are able to keep a bunch of each type. also depends if u want to keep females as well.

u can totally keep a lot of malawis in your tank. u have the space for fish to actually swim away from harrassment.


----------



## thefishwife

Guess you will try spencer jack? why all males? not that I would mind IF I was the only female hahahahahahahaha


----------



## Mferko

i think with peacocks you could get away with multiples but depending on the species they might not color up to their fullest, dont try it with the more aggressive mbuna tho like demasoni males or auratus males

have you read this article about building all male tanks? sounds like it takes quite a bit of tinkering to find the right balance
All-Male Malawi Tank


----------



## tony1928

Yeah I read that. Sounds like mainly a slow process if you follow their suggestions. A lot of buying a small group of fish, then selecting males based on lower aggression to add into the main tank. A lot of work. I think my biggest advantage is tank size which might let me get away with multiples of some fish. I'm busy shopping for a stocklist!



Mferko said:


> i think with peacocks you could get away with multiples but depending on the species they might not color up to their fullest, dont try it with the more aggressive mbuna tho like demasoni males or auratus males
> 
> have you read this article about building all male tanks? sounds like it takes quite a bit of tinkering to find the right balance
> All-Male Malawi Tank


----------



## tony1928

Yup, Spencer has definitely got a few fish I'm looking for. Even subadult males. Not cheap but its too painfullly slow to grow out from fry to only select and sell, select and sell.



thefishwife said:


> Guess you will try spencer jack? why all males? not that I would mind IF I was the only female hahahahahahahaha


----------



## Mferko

heres a 350G african setup YouTube - 350 gallon custom aquarium African cichlids
and a really crowded 220 at feeding time 



 this one is really nice tbh, quite the mix in there, i even see a demasoni


----------



## thefishwife

Awesome videos!!! Spencer's got great fish from what I hear, and even tho they aren't cheap, its good quality which is what you want Tony.


----------



## tony1928

Given all the trouble we go to for our fish, quality of the fish is at the top of my mind all the time. Needless to say, I'm sure it will be hundreds of dollars if not more by the time I'm done stocking.



thefishwife said:


> Awesome videos!!! Spencer's got great fish from what I hear, and even tho they aren't cheap, its good quality which is what you want Tony.


----------



## tony1928

The 220g looks fantastic.....it looks like a full mix african tank. Even a frontosa, mbuna...etc. I'll be sticking to hap/peacock, but a great vid nevertheless.



Mferko said:


> heres a 350G african setup YouTube - 350 gallon custom aquarium African cichlids
> and a really crowded 220 at feeding time YouTube - African Cichlid Tank- feeding in 220 gallons! this one is really nice tbh, quite the mix in there, i even see a demasoni


----------



## silvciv888

the guy in utah has decent stuff. just dont order the juvies.

the most cost effective way is to get the young adults. just before they start coloring. fully colored males are worth quite a bit coin.


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I think I will try that Utah place too, considering the gb that was done recently that had very reasonable shipping.

Any input would be much appreciated. I'm not really looking at setting up a true gb, but if a few of you guys want to share in shipping costs, I'm sure we could arrange it. I'm just not into the logistics of a true gb. Three or four people, sure, I don't mind.



silvciv888 said:


> the guy in utah has decent stuff. just dont order the juvies.
> 
> the most cost effective way is to get the young adults. just before they start coloring. fully colored males are worth quite a bit coin.


----------



## ngo911

The Utah place... is that livefishdirect? If so, I would love to take part in a GB.


----------



## Adz1

going to africans already?
i think you are giving up on the SA tank before it ever really got started.
Africans are nice though.
best of luck on the swap over..


----------



## tony1928

Haha, yeah, I think that's the difficulty in going with a single tank. I've had SA's for quite a while now....not just with this particular tank. But given that I only have the one tank now, it's gonna have to be a colorful vibrant show tank. If only I had more tanks, I'd be able to keep more varieties. That being said, a big driver of keeping just a single tank was to help save time and even though the tank is big, its definitely a time saver over taking care of 3 or 4 tanks. I've had africans before and they can't be beat for FW color. Also, some of the easiest to care for.



Adz1 said:


> going to africans already?
> i think you are giving up on the SA tank before it ever really got started.
> Africans are nice though.
> best of luck on the swap over..


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I can't think of another Utah place. LOL. I'll let you guys know if I end up doing an order there. Like I said before, I don't want to make it a real big gb, if a few guys want to add to my order, that's fine. It'll all be prepaid by everyone and I won't be responsible for your fish. I'm happy to help share shipping costs but I'm also ready to go it myself.



ngo911 said:


> The Utah place... is that livefishdirect? If so, I would love to take part in a GB.


----------



## A.Tan

*nice geo's!*

wow!! those are some nice geo's you have!!! what do you have planned with them?


----------



## silvciv888

tony1928 said:


> Yeah, I can't think of another Utah place. LOL. I'll let you guys know if I end up doing an order there. Like I said before, I don't want to make it a real big gb, if a few guys want to add to my order, that's fine. It'll all be prepaid by everyone and I won't be responsible for your fish. I'm happy to help share shipping costs but I'm also ready to go it myself.


the good thing about livefish is the shipping to your door at a flat rate. the dude was on the ball at replacing the DOAs. u might want to wait until spring or so when the weather gets warmer. i dont trust the shipping companies.


----------



## tony1928

Haha, if I'm ordering, it'll be in about two weeks and I'm probably buying bigger fish so hopefully it'll be ok. I'll post my shopping list once I figure it out this week. I'm not interested in juvies anymore as I just don't have the room to accomodate. I may also order from Spencer as well.


----------



## Mferko

can you post a link to this spencer guy ive never heard of it  thx


----------



## tony1928

Cichlaholic.com - Fish Lists



Mferko said:


> can you post a link to this spencer guy ive never heard of it  thx


----------



## tony1928

Haha, sorry the big guys are all sold. Fantastic looking fish which I will miss.



A.Tan said:


> wow!! those are some nice geo's you have!!! what do you have planned with them?


----------



## tony1928

A pic for Ben. This Irwini is so elusive. I had to move his rock pile to expose.


----------



## beN

rock on!!! hahaha
another beauty you have!

cant wait to introduce him to my tank!


----------



## charles

well tony, if you are going to setup African, I have about 90-100lb of crushed coral substrate. That will do goof for your future african.


----------



## Mferko

i cant wait to see how this tank turns out. already convinced the wife to get a 220 by showing her that video i posted up above, mebbe when she sees yours i can ask her about a 400 instead lol


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Charles. I think I'm going to try to stick with my 3M for now as I still really like the color of the tan. I had white before and it just looks nice when its new. I'll buffer the water with gH and kH additives.



charles said:


> well tony, if you are going to setup African, I have about 90-100lb of crushed coral substrate. That will do goof for your future african.


----------



## tony1928

Haha, better than me...I just showed up one day with the 400g in my garage. Honestly I don't think I could ever go back to a "regular" sized tank. Just so many options when you have tank space.



Mferko said:


> i cant wait to see how this tank turns out. already convinced the wife to get a 220 by showing her that video i posted up above, mebbe when she sees yours i can ask her about a 400 instead lol


----------



## silvciv888

tony1928 said:


> Haha, if I'm ordering, it'll be in about two weeks and I'm probably buying bigger fish so hopefully it'll be ok. I'll post my shopping list once I figure it out this week. I'm not interested in juvies anymore as I just don't have the room to accomodate. I may also order from Spencer as well.



snap! i'm in bro!


----------



## tony1928

I'll let you know. Once I got a confirmed buyer for my last 2 catfish, I'm good to go.



silvciv888 said:


> snap! i'm in bro!


----------



## silvciv888

btw, saw some peacocks at the richmond IPU. there are a few big ones that look fairly nice. 59.99 (3-4") for the colored adults, 49.99 (3") for slightly smaller and 11.99 (1.5") for small juvies that are starting to color.


----------



## tony1928

Wow, that's a surprise. Rarely seen local places bother stocking adult peacocks. A bit on the pricey side but nice to see that IPU is bringing some in. I still remember the old days when just about half of most fishrooms out there were africans. Alot of variety. Then it became just a handful of mix tanks....like the low rent clearance section of the room. LOL.



silvciv888 said:


> btw, saw some peacocks at the richmond IPU. there are a few big ones that look fairly nice. 59.99 (3-4") for the colored adults, 49.99 (3") for slightly smaller and 11.99 (1.5") for small juvies that are starting to color.


----------



## Mferko

silvciv888 said:


> btw, saw some peacocks at the richmond IPU. there are a few big ones that look fairly nice. 59.99 (3-4") for the colored adults, 49.99 (3") for slightly smaller and 11.99 (1.5") for small juvies that are starting to color.


wait what? 60 bucks each? lmfao


----------



## Mferko

tony1928 said:


> Wow, that's a surprise. Rarely seen local places bother stocking adult peacocks. A bit on the pricey side but nice to see that IPU is bringing some in. I still remember the old days when just about half of most fishrooms out there were africans. Alot of variety. Then it became just a handful of mix tanks....like the low rent clearance section of the room. LOL.


what happened? why are people so obsessed with tanks full of stupid little feeder fish and underwater gardens now? i dont get it lol.


----------



## tony1928

It's purely supply and demand. No LFS wants to sell stuff that they can't flip for a profit. I think it will go in cycles. Now that Africans have been on the out for a few years, there will be less supply and less local breeders. I'm sure they will make a come back at some point if only for the simple fact that they are so colourful.



Mferko said:


> what happened? why are people so obsessed with tanks full of stupid little feeder fish and underwater gardens now? i dont get it lol.


----------



## tony1928

Well it looks like my SA livestock will be gone by Thursday. So begins the next phase for this tank. I'll be rescaping with some large tall basalt rocks hopefully which will help break up the space/line of sight issues. I'm going to buffer the water to African specs and the tank will be basically ready to restock asap. 

I really gotta start building my LED project asap. I've already started cutting some of my aluminum tubing but I'm still waiting for some electrical connectors. With the Africans, I really wanna be able to see the fish in all its glory!!!


----------



## ngo911

Looking forward to the completed setup. The pics in Cichlid2010's African tank using LED lights look amazing. Should look even better in a 400g!!


----------



## tony1928

Just unloaded my last fish this morning and I already have a few to add to my tank. I got two Aulonocara Baenschi, and a Copadichromis Kadango, and a Fryeri from Smiladon. Thx!!!

Also, picked up a couple of small Blue Dolphins and an OB Peacock and a baby Red Empress on the way home. 

Let the african madness begin.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

You sure aren't wasting any time this time around, Tony. Good on ya!  Get those lights and post up some new pics ASAP....because as you know, if there are no pics, the natives start to get restless.


----------



## tony1928

If I could send the kids away for two days, I think it would be done.

The concept is pretty simple. Create an aluminum box frame that I will attach the LED's to. Using a 80/20® Inc. - The Industrial Erector Set� product called Quick Frame. Then cover with a material like Sintra Celtec. It's basically a lite duty expanded PVC product. Comes in sheet form and you can cut with a utility knife. The Aluminum frame will serve as a heatsink as well as the frame for the box. Well, that's the idea anyways.

Ah....if I could really send the kids away.....or call in sick. Well, dang, that wouldn't work cuz the kids would still be home! 



2wheelsx2 said:


> You sure aren't wasting any time this time around, Tony. Good on ya!  Get those lights and post up some new pics ASAP....because as you know, if there are no pics, the natives start to get restless.


----------



## Peterchow

tony1928 said:


> Just unloaded my last fish this morning and I already have a few to add to my tank. I got two Aulonocara Baenschi, and a Copadichromis Kadango, and a Fryeri from Smiladon. Thx!!!
> 
> Also, picked up a couple of small Blue Dolphins and an OB Peacock and a baby Red Empress on the way home.
> 
> Let the african madness begin.


Good planning, Tony !!!!

The rents are not cheap in your 400 G !!!!
Lets fill it with some new good & vibrant tenants !!!!


----------



## Mferko

awesome
look forward to seeing the africans under your fancy new lights
africans ftw!!!


----------



## tony1928

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I'm now looking to do an order somewhere. Could be Canadian based order. ie. Spencer Jacks or US based. So far for US based, there's Buy Freshwater African Cichlids at Live Fish Direct: Freshwater Aquarium Fish Breeder and the other site that I saw that had fish I wanted would be Dave's Rare Aquarium Fish-Price List. I don't mind driving down to the states to pickup if that would help save shipping but obviously would prefer for it to ship to my door. I know others have dealt with livefishdirect before and were able to have it shipped to Canada at a reasonable cost. That would certainly be preferable. Dave's fish certainly does have a very very nice fish list though. Anyhow, I'll probably be looking to do an order with a pickup date within the next two weeks. If anyone wants in, please let me know. As usual, it will be money up front before the order deadline or you are out. Shipping will be divvied up by quantity of fish. That seems to be most fair as the quantity dictates the space you take up in the box. Fish must be picked up asap on delivery date as I can't care for your fish. DOA's I will try to assist with the vendor to provide you with the credit directly.

I'm not doing this as an official GB...just wondering if anyone else wants to get some nice fish that you can't find locally and share a little shipping at the same time. It's also kinda fun to open a box of fish....kinda like Xmas every time! 

I'll be doing this order regardless and hope to have a fish list compiled by end of this week. Have a look and PM me to discuss.


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, not having the lights right now is really kinda pissing me off. 



Mferko said:


> awesome
> look forward to seeing the africans under your fancy new lights
> africans ftw!!!


----------



## Mferko

by the way i was looking around awhile ago when i did my order 
if your looking for wild caught adult malawi's check out blue chip aquatics
they have farm raised german reds too
Bluechip Aquatics

reserve stock cichlids doesnt have many malawis but they have lots of tangs and the malawi's they do have are pretty nice, some are rare
http://www.reservestockcichlids.com/home.php?cat=18

have u considered putting some calvus's or comps in that tank? theyd prolly fit in well with the haps and peacocks as theyre well tempered


----------



## silvciv888

damn man. u beat me to that kadango. hehe.

u can pretty much mix anything w/ the amount of space u have.


----------



## tony1928

Just cuz I love you guys, here's a pic.

After removing everything and adding 400lbs of rock...here's my first stab at minimalist aquascaping.


----------



## tony1928

Haha, I had that same Kadango before. I can't remember who I sold it to anymore. It looks almost identical. Ah well, other people beat me to those dolphins. I ended up picking up two little guys. Even now, there's a little chasing going on. Nothing major. Gonna be expensive to crowd these guys. LOL. Let me know if you are looking for anything.



silvciv888 said:


> damn man. u beat me to that kadango. hehe.
> 
> u can pretty much mix anything w/ the amount of space u have.


----------



## tony1928

I took a look at Reserve Stock Cichlids. They do have some nice stuff but they are very small....almost fry sized. If I'm ordering, I'm going to bring in bigger stuff. Better chance of survival, plus also you'll know what you are getting. ie. males/coloured up.

Bluechip seems to be more Tang based. In fact, they had no Malawi's in stock.

Again, if you guys are interested, tack onto my order and we'll make it happen. So far, looks like livefishdirect has the best prices and certainly the best shipping too. Dave's fish definitely has the more "premium" list.



Mferko said:


> by the way i was looking around awhile ago when i did my order
> if your looking for wild caught adult malawi's check out blue chip aquatics
> they have farm raised german reds too
> Bluechip Aquatics
> 
> reserve stock cichlids doesnt have many malawis but they have lots of tangs and the malawi's they do have are pretty nice, some are rare
> Haplochromines :: Lake Malawi :: Reserve Stock Cichlids
> 
> have u considered putting some calvus's or comps in that tank? theyd prolly fit in well with the haps and peacocks as theyre well tempered


----------



## Mferko

wow i was just browsing the tangs on livefish
ive never even heard of those xenotilapia before.. so colorful and cute lol
they look almost goby like? do they behave like gobies?

edit: im thinking not since it says theyre from the depths and gobies are from the shallows, they still look really cute tho lol, i cant wait to get a tank the size of yours and do a massive tang tank 
livefish seems to have good selection


----------



## silvciv888

xenos are awesome as well as enantiopus. great behaviour. they are like the african equivalent to SA geos.


----------



## Mferko

silvciv888 said:


> xenos are awesome as well as enantiopus. great behaviour. they are like the african equivalent to SA geos.


can u describe?


----------



## thefishwife

tony1928 said:


> Just cuz I love you guys, here's a pic.
> 
> After removing everything and adding 400lbs of rock...here's my first stab at minimalist aquascaping.


Hot damn a full tank shot - YYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS. Love it Tony, can't wait to see it full of fish.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Once again, you're my hero. I always forget how 4 of my cubes will fit in your tank!


----------



## tony1928

Haha, ah my wife wouldn't allow me to take that obligatory pic of the entire family lying in the empty tank.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Once again, you're my hero. I always forget how 4 of my cubes will fit in your tank!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Haha, ah my wife wouldn't allow me to take that obligatory pic of the entire family lying in the empty tank.


Would she have allowed it if it wasn't full of water? My son would see that as a swimming pool!


----------



## tony1928

Gotta love fully cycled biomedia. I'll fill it up as fast as I can find suitable fish. Easier said than done. I want to reach a decent number in the next several months. Say at least 30 to 40 or so. Thanks for the comments Kim!



thefishwife said:


> Hot damn a full tank shot - YYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS. Love it Tony, can't wait to see it full of fish.


----------



## Chronick

lookin good man, definitely looking forward to seeing the final tank


----------



## tony1928

So it looks like I'm going to do the gb via livefishdirect. Just based on their stocklist and shipping flexibility. If anyone wants in, let me know by Sunday night. I will put the order in on Monday.


----------



## silvciv888

i'll let u know what i want!


----------



## tony1928

Cool. Looks like we have about 4 people now for the order. Anyone else, let me know by Sunday night.


----------



## lednail

I spent all day reading your journal. now i am dreeming of going big. How are you keepimg your pH up? Oyser shell in the FX5?


----------



## tony1928

I'm keeping the pH up by using additives. Marine salt for gH and an alkalinity buffer for kH. Seems like if I can get those two parameters to where Malawi fish like them, ie. I shoot for both of those parameters to be around 10. Then the pH will magically be around 8.

The biggest plus for going big, other than the obvious, is that all that water really allows me to keep the environment very stable. I do my weekly to 10 days 30% water change and everyone is happy.



lednail said:


> I spent all day reading your journal. now i am dreeming of going big. How are you keepimg your pH up? Oyser shell in the FX5?


----------



## tony1928

Thanks again too everyone that joined me in the little impromptu group buy with livefishdirect. This was my first time ordering with them and as "rumored" the service and communication level was great. The only thing I was not impressed with was the box the box that the fish were shipped in. That's no fish box and was extremely flimsy. Basically a big cardboard box that's been lined by a couple of sheets of foam. Good thing was that the majority of the fish were individually bagged and heat sealed. Anyways, the order went well and I'm really happy with my new additions. I'm sure I'll be ordering again in the future.


----------



## CanadaPleco

wheres the pics of them in the tank now


----------



## tony1928

LOL. I was waiting for someone to ask. Didn't have time to snap any last night but since I don't have lighting for this tank, they won't be very impressive. Regardless, the fish, and there are probably 20-25 fish in there now of varying sizes, still are completely lost in the 400g. Need more fish! Thus, I'm already shopping again!



CanadaPleco said:


> wheres the pics of them in the tank now


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Need more fish! Thus, I'm already shopping again!


You'll be overstocking this tank? Yikes. My wallet hurts just thinking about it.


----------



## tony1928

Hahaha, I will be totally overstocking this tank. I really like to see activity....been youtubing alot of malawi show tanks are alot of them are pretty stunning.

Besides, I don't have to save up for a blue eye......though I might make that up in volume! 



2wheelsx2 said:


> You'll be overstocking this tank? Yikes. My wallet hurts just thinking about it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Besides, I don't have to save up for a blue eye......though I might make that up in volume!


Groan....don't remind me. "You know who" has been merciless in reminding now that the stand is going to be ready and the tank will be up in the next 2 weeks.


----------



## charles

Oh yeah, the blue eye... Tony, you know what, I heard blue eye can do well in a african tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> Oh yeah, the blue eye... Tony, you know what, I heard blue eye can do well in a african tank


It would, if the tank was not acrylic.


----------



## tony1928

Haha, Charles is the devil. And no, I can't get another tank for it. If I did, it would be a pleco tank. Don't you start.....


----------



## charles

oh, a panaque tank will be a nice addition.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> oh, a panaque tank will be a nice addition.


Totally agree. Blue Eye, L226, L27, L204....just saying'! ;p


----------



## tony1928

Just a quick update of my tank. Here's a pic of the current inhabitants and also another pic of a few Synodontis Multipunctatus that I just picked up from another member. So hard to find these in a decent size. These guys are about 4". I love how they school together. The cichlids don't bother them.


















I'm going to use this journal to keep track of my inhabitants, so here's hopefully a full listing of current inhabitants:

Sciaenochromis Fryeri
Copadichromis Borleyi Kadango
Copadichromis Borleyi Nkhata Bay
Copadichromis Trewavasae Mloto
Copadichromis Azureus
Nimbochromis Venustus
Cyrtocara Moori x 4
Aulonocara sp. OB 
Aulonocara sp. Fire fish
Aulonocara Jacobfreibergi Albino Eureka Red
Aulonocara Koningsi Regal Blue Peacock
Aulonocara Maylandi Sulfur Head 
Aulonocara sp.Walteri
Aulonocara sp.German Red x 2
Aulonocara Stuartgranti Usisya Flavescent
Aulonocara Stuartgranti Cobue
Aulonocara Stuartgranti Chiwindi x 2
Protomelas Taeniolatus
Protomelas sp. Steveni Taiwan Reef
Protomelas sp. Steveni Albino Taiwan Reef
Protomelas Spilonotus Mara Rocks
Lethrinops Intermedius
Lethrinops Lethrinus
Otopharynx Lithobates Zimbabwe Rock
Placidochromis Phenochilus
Placidochromis Electra
Champsochromis Caeruleus x 2
Labidochromis Caeruleus x 8
Dimidiochromis Compressiceps x 3

Synodontis Multipunctatus x 3

Frontosa Kapampa x 3
Exochromis Anagenys x 3
Altolamprologus Compressiceps Yellow x 2


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The Synodontis are very cool.


----------



## thefishwife

I love the catfish! Ya Tony the tank is a little bare still hehehehe, that being said I love looking at all the fish in there right now.


----------



## Mferko

looks cool, keep posting pics


----------



## tony1928

So I've finally was able to find my Placidochromis Phenochilus courtesy of Tom. Been dying to get this fish for a long time. It's a beauty and it has been doing well in my tank thus far. I've been able to add a few here and there from different BCA members. (Thanks Shelltoes and Ngo911). I've been able to add a few more Blue Dolphins as they are one of my favorite fish.

Here's a few new pics of some inhabitants.

Tank shot showing all the activity which I love.










The big 6" Pheno starting to speckle up.










Not super impressed with this Aulonocara sp. Dragon blood or firefish as they are referred to.










Here's a massive Lethrinops I just got....about 7". I think its a Lethrinus









Here's a sneak peak at my new project.


















Crazy to start that one before I'm even finished with my lighting for this tank...I just can't sit still.


----------



## bonsai dave

The tank is looking great. Can't wait to see the new lighting set up. Are you still going with leds?


----------



## ngo911

Looking much more lively than the last time I saw the beast! The dolphins are much happier in your tank for sure. Keep on posting!


----------



## tony1928

Yup Dave, still going LED's. I already have them. Just need to assemble the whole thing. I'm a little apprehensive with all the soldering.



Discus Dave said:


> The tank is looking great. Can't wait to see the new lighting set up. Are you still going with leds?


----------



## tony1928

Thanks for the fish once again. They are nice and big and look great. I used to have some full sized ones so I can't wait til they get that big.



ngo911 said:


> Looking much more lively than the last time I saw the beast! The dolphins are much happier in your tank for sure. Keep on posting!


----------



## Smiladon

Looking really good there Tony.

I am assuming you got the Pheno from Tom? I love these fish. They get nicer and nicer as they grow old


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Love the H. zebra setup. Since I had the trouble with the L134, I've been thinking about getting some H. zebra in the cube. Those are from Charles? Do you have confirmed sexes?


----------



## tony1928

Yup. all from Charles. I have not been able to confirm sexes myself. I bought a group of 3 first and I believe Charles suspects that it was 2M1F. Second group of 3 I bought were a little smaller and Charles said it was hard to guess at that point. He felt that perhaps one of them may be female. Anyways, they seem to like their little caves and are using them as their homes. I really enjoy the setup as I can watch them easily as they can't really hide from me but at the same time, the rock and caves make them pretty comfortable in just hanging out in the shade. If they breed for me, it'll be a bonus, otherwise, they are just alot of fun to sit and watch.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Love the H. zebra setup. Since I had the trouble with the L134, I've been thinking about getting some H. zebra in the cube. Those are from Charles? Do you have confirmed sexes?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That's the right attitude. Too much stress trying different things to make them breed. If they're ready, they'll do it. I just found a tiny L129 in my 125 gallon last night. Even with JD's in the tank, the fry managed to survive. I guess I should consider getting a dedicated setup sometime so I can actually observe the breeding.


----------



## tony1928

Yup, got the pheno from Tom. He still has a trio that he was considering selling to me but I decided against it. I'd rather have him continue to try to breed them. Would be nice to see more available here.



Smiladon said:


> Looking really good there Tony.
> 
> I am assuming you got the Pheno from Tom? I love these fish. They get nicer and nicer as they grow old


----------



## Mferko

you should try and find some big compressiceps to put in there mebbe gold headed or black ones i think itd look cool even tho they arent malawi


----------



## tony1928

It would be amazing to be able to actually see them breed in one of the caves. I got those from plecocaves and they seem to be working out well. I'm running an Eheim 2075 and running a maxijet 900. I might have to downgrade that maxijet a little bit as it might be a bit too much flow in a 33g. The plecos don't seem to mind though. I did end up using a Customflo kit to bring the eheim's return down low to provide flow just above the substrate.



2wheelsx2 said:


> That's the right attitude. Too much stress trying different things to make them breed. If they're ready, they'll do it. I just found a tiny L129 in my 125 gallon last night. Even with JD's in the tank, the fry managed to survive. I guess I should consider getting a dedicated setup sometime so I can actually observe the breeding.


----------



## tony1928

I've always like those fish but I'm not sure if they would appreciate the wide open layout of my tank. They might not like the lack of hiding spots.



Mferko said:


> you should try and find some big compressiceps to put in there mebbe gold headed or black ones i think itd look cool even tho they arent malawi


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> It would be amazing to be able to actually see them breed in one of the caves. I got those from plecocaves and they seem to be working out well. I'm running an Eheim 2075 and running a maxijet 900. I might have to downgrade that maxijet a little bit as it might be a bit too much flow in a 33g. The plecos don't seem to mind though. I did end up using a Customflo kit to bring the eheim's return down low to provide flow just above the substrate.


Sounds like a good setup. I got a whole bunch of caves from plecocaves. If you think you need a different size let me know. I'm told sometimes they can be picky about the cave sizes so giving them different sizes to choose from is good. I even got the split ones.


----------



## Mferko

what did you end up doing for lighting? dont think i saw any pics of the framing
also wondering if u can buy those led's locally? its cool that u can even get royal blue ones and ive seen black light led's on other sites too


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## tony1928

I decided against going with the DIY LED's as I just don't have the time to mess with it with the kids and work, etc... I've already sold my Cree's to another member. I've been saving up and will be using the Aquaray tiles to provide the lighting. Yeah, its pricey but it's a couple of hours project versus a lengthy project that I just don't have the patience for right now. I will be building an aluminum box frame to support the tiles. Similar to what Aquaray actually sells, they call them the MMS rail system. I was thinking of suspending the frame and fixture from the ceiling too. But have decided to simplify things and just build some legs out of aluminum tubing. Will have pics up in a couple weeks. Waiting for parts as we speak. 


Mferko said:


> what did you end up doing for lighting? dont think i saw any pics of the framing
> also wondering if u can buy those led's locally? its cool that u can even get royal blue ones and ive seen black light led's on other sites too


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## Mferko

id be willing to do the diy led thing if only i could get them at a reasonable price locally
time i have, lots of cash i dont


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> I decided against going with the DIY LED's as I just don't have the time to mess with it with the kids and work, etc... I've already sold my Cree's to another member. I've been saving up and will be using the Aquaray tiles to provide the lighting. Yeah, its pricey but it's a couple of hours project versus a lengthy project that I just don't have the patience for right now. I will be building an aluminum box frame to support the tiles. Similar to what Aquaray actually sells, they call them the MMS rail system. I was thinking of suspending the frame and fixture from the ceiling too. But have decided to simplify things and just build some legs out of aluminum tubing. Will have pics up in a couple weeks. Waiting for parts as we speak.


ooooo....I can't wait to see this. I was going to ask you what you were going to do when you sold the RapidLED setup. I've been thinking about the AquaRay's for my cube eventually too, so you're going to be my hero!


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## tony1928

Hahaha, I am going with 4 1500XG's. Was thinking about using the Grobeams but I didn't really like the 6500k colour temp. The XG's run about 9000k which is alot whiter/bluer. I think it will make the african cichlid colours pop alot more than the 6500k. With the size of this tank though, I'm hoping there won't be any highly visible gaps in the lighting.

It's really too bad, at the time I really wanted to do the DIY project. Now its just a function of time.



2wheelsx2 said:


> ooooo....I can't wait to see this. I was going to ask you what you were going to do when you sold the RapidLED setup. I've been thinking about the AquaRay's for my cube eventually too, so you're going to be my hero!


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Hahaha, I am going with 4 1500XG's. Was thinking about using the Grobeams but I didn't really like the 6500k colour temp. The XG's run about 9000k which is alot whiter/bluer. I think it will make the african cichlid colours pop alot more than the 6500k. With the size of this tank though, I'm hoping there won't be any highly visible gaps in the lighting.
> 
> It's really too bad, at the time I really wanted to do the DIY project. Now its just a function of time.


The 6500 may be to yellow. Perhaps you want to consider using some 6500 strips to make the light a bit warmer though. I've found the same thing even with T5's. Using a mix of lights makes it look more natural than just all bulbs at the same Kelvin.


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## tony1928

Hmmm....I may need to add a couple of strips in the future anyways but for now, I'll stick with the 9500k and see how it goes. I think its not as blue as I think. I used to run actinics in my african tank and it should have been a lot bluer than this. I didn't like it but that's what came with the T5 light at the time. Anyways, the lights will be probably done in about two weeks provided I don't get caught up in some kid related activity.



2wheelsx2 said:


> The 6500 may be to yellow. Perhaps you want to consider using some 6500 strips to make the light a bit warmer though. I've found the same thing even with T5's. Using a mix of lights makes it look more natural than just all bulbs at the same Kelvin.


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## tony1928

So I finally decided to bite the bullet and just finish the lighting project. Originally, I was going to do DIY LED's in a custom canopy. Bought everything with good intention of getting to it but it just became apparent that I would never get to it. Still needing some sort of lighting, I decided to go with the Aquaray tiles. At first, I was going to go with the Grobeam model tiles as they had the most optimal area coverage per tile. However, the 6500k spectrum seemed to be a bit too yellow for me. I really wanted something whiter, not really bluer, but definitely a clean bright white. I convinced myself to go with the 1500XG tiles. They are in the 9500k spectrum.

Anyways after deciding on using these tiles I needed something to house / support the lighting. At first, i thought of building a simple canopy and hanging it from the ceiling. However, I wanted to keep it as simple and as compact as possible. I don't want to deal with a beast of a canopy every time I wanted to take the tank lids off and do some maintenance. Thus, I decided on building a simple aluminum frame that would support the tiles. With my engineering ability at the low end of things, I decided to use these:

Quick Frame Introduction

These were super simple to use and all you needed to do was cut to size and slam it all together with a mallet. Just measure a bunch of times to ensure the lengths are perfect.

Here's a few pics and the construction of the frame is pretty self explanatory once you see it.
















The tile itself. I have 4 of them.









An overhead view of the frame supporting the light tiles. The framing has a lip that allows the tiles to slide along the length of the frame. I can move the tiles around to my hearts content.









This multicontroller controls all 4 tiles. You can dim and also have the lights ramp up and ramp down over any number of minutes that you can set....to simulate sunrise and sunset. There's also a storm feature (which is no use to me).









Full tank shot with the lighting. The lights are a bit bright right now and i will tweak them down once I get used to it a bit more. You probably can't tell that its ridiculously bright from the pics. Let's just say I don't need to have any other lights on in this room.

Anyhow, that's it for now....I sucked it up and worked on this last night after I got all the bits and pieces together. Once the plan was in place, the construction really only took a couple hours to do the cuts and assembly. Hope you guys like it.

Tony


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## beN

looks awesome tony!

im thinking LED myself in the near future.


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## tony1928

I really love the shimmer effect. It's just like when snorkeling in the tropics.


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## Mferko

looks awesome tony
i was thinking of possibly getting this led kit: it has an rgb controller so u can make them any color 
Strip LED under water kit by LetsLED.


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## Johnnyfishtanks

wow man that tank is whoop ass. i would love to see this tank in person. were did you get the rock. im in the market for nice looking rock


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## tony1928

underwater...wow, that's pretty cool. I think those strips are fine as long as you are using them for accent. I can see using them to backlight caves or stuff like that...or providing some moonlight. Thing I find is that alot of LED's the light is too focused. So it took me a long time to find something I could use since my tank is so deep from front to back.


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## tony1928

Thanks Johnny. I got the rock from Northwest Landscape Supply by Byrne Rd by Marine Way in Burnaby.



Johnnyfishtanks said:


> wow man that tank is whoop ass. i would love to see this tank in person. were did you get the rock. im in the market for nice looking rock


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## Johnnyfishtanks

how many pounds was all that .


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## bonsai dave

The tank is looking good Tony. I can't wait to see it when I come by in a couple of weeks..


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## Smiladon

The full tank shot looks awesome. It was definitely a good choice to go with a show african tank


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## gklaw

Looks awesome Tony. Wondering how my 150g planted discus will look with that like.

You would not let me borrow them right  I know Jeff at JL won't - or may be he will 

Not sure if I would dish out $500 and ending up not liking it. May be I need to come by to take a look.


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## tony1928

Several hundred agonizing pounds. 



Johnnyfishtanks said:


> how many pounds was all that .


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## tony1928

Thanks for the kind comments. I started way back with Africans and now I'm back. But who knows....this hobby always changes. I enjoy the vibrant colours and the fact that these fish are about as robust as any.



Smiladon said:


> The full tank shot looks awesome. It was definitely a good choice to go with a show african tank


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## tony1928

Haha, you should ask Jeff though I'm not sure he has any samples lying around. I'm sure if he did he'd probably let you.

Feel free to come and see. For planted, you probably would want the Grobeam model.



gklaw said:


> Looks awesome Tony. Wondering how my 150g planted discus will look with that like.
> 
> You would not let me borrow them right  I know Jeff at JL won't - or may be he will
> 
> Not sure if I would dish out $500 and ending up not liking it. May be I need to come by to take a look.


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## thefishwife

Very nice Tony, and I must say being able to move the lights and dim them is awesome!
And thank you for the full tank shot


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## Mferko

makes sense
i like the choice you made the colors of those fish really pop now


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## 2wheelsx2

That's one awesome setup. With that much light, are you not going to be worried about excessive algae? Or are you not running it at full power?


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## tony1928

I'm going to be tuning the light output as we go. I only have the lights on in the evenings from 6 to 11pm. But I will dim if needed. Yes, it is shockingly bright right now in that room. 



2wheelsx2 said:


> That's one awesome setup. With that much light, are you not going to be worried about excessive algae? Or are you not running it at full power?


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## tony1928

Thanks for the comments everyone. I can't believe how much better the fish look now that I have proper lighting. Another thing is that I can't believe I have almost 70 fish in there. I'm always tempted to add more but I have to keep in mind that the haps will grow, not to mention my new fronts.


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## jobber

Tony, nice LED setup.
Are you planning to put a shield/ panel on the front p, if there are any light shining horizontally when you're looking at the tank?


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## tony1928

Hi Ming,

Yeah, I will consider putting up a shield of some sort. The frame is already set up to quite easily add a piece of material like Cloroplast or similar, even foamcore. However, I have to see if that might block too much of the "forward" light spread. Have to test it with some cardboard.

Tony



jobber604 said:


> Tony, nice LED setup.
> Are you planning to put a shield/ panel on the front p, if there are any light shining horizontally when you're looking at the tank?


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Hi Ming,
> 
> Yeah, I will consider putting up a shield of some sort. The frame is already set up to quite easily add a piece of material like Cloroplast or similar, even foamcore. However, I have to see if that might block too much of the "forward" light spread. Have to test it with some cardboard.


I think it would be more efficient to form a reflector at an appropriate angle to send the light spill back into the tank, but keep it from reaching your eyes. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone.


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## tony1928

Hmmm....now you got me thinking.....

Mind you, I have more than enough light already.....so really, for me the issue would be keeping the light from blinding me. Right now, I really don't mind it much. It illuminates my whole room with a nice glow....I'm not turning any of my regular overhead lights on in the evenings. LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I think it would be more efficient to form a reflector at an appropriate angle to send the light spill back into the tank, but keep it from reaching your eyes. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone.


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## 2wheelsx2

So that's how you sold it to your wife....energy efficient lighting!


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## tony1928

Just like I sold her that a 400g tank is required to help the kids appreciate marine life. She's really into the eco thing ya know. 



2wheelsx2 said:


> So that's how you sold it to your wife....energy efficient lighting!


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Just like I sold her that a 400g tank is required to help the kids appreciate marine life. She's really into the eco thing ya know.


So how'd you explain the "marine" part so far?


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## shelltoes

Whoo Hoo! Let there be light!...I was waiting for this, the fish really pop with that set up. Nice and clean, Good job Tony..


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## tony1928

Told her that would be an extra $20k. LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> So how'd you explain the "marine" part so far?


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## tony1928

Thanks Sheldon. I think it has alot to do with not only the intensity but the spectrum of light. The white light at 9500k really seem to make everything pop.



shelltoes said:


> Whoo Hoo! Let there be light!...I was waiting for this, the fish really pop with that set up. Nice and clean, Good job Tony..


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## hdrob

Great journal. 

You make me want to upsize my 90g mbuna tank!


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## tony1928

Haha, thanks for the kind comment. Honestly, I never thought I would ever every in my wildest dreams be able to do a tank this size. Just fell into my lap one day. Now I couldn't imagine doing "small tanks" anymore. The footprint and the water volume just allows you to do so much more and much easier too. Less water quality fluctuations and I'm able to keep much more varied livestock. Only downside is that I can only have one of these tanks!



hdrob said:


> Great journal.
> 
> You make me want to upsize my 90g mbuna tank!


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## 2wheelsx2

Now that you got your wife used to it, getting a 180 or a 210 is only a "small" tank, so you can get a couple of those!


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## charles

And I know someone has a scratches free used 180g for sale


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## tony1928

Haha, maybe I could tell her the 180 is a sump for the 400....


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## jobber

Rumour has it that this tank is being converted to a discus tank? Look forward to the developments.


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## tony1928

jobber604 said:


> Rumour has it that this tank is being converted to a discus tank? Look forward to the developments.


Hahaha, the rumour mill works quickly. Yup, this will be converted after my pleco cube is done.


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## gklaw

400 gallon discus !! Dying to see that.


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## jobber

I'm loving your new pleco cube project. A colony of frogs or 'other spotted' ones? They all seem to love the river rocks supplied by Northwest Landscape and Stone Supply located at 5883 Byrne Road, Burnaby, BC. I know of a local geologist that would love to help pick out rocks...haha
Look forward to seeing your project(s) develop.


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## tony1928

Haha, so I'm not the only crazy guy hanging out at a gardening supply yard looking for aquascaping supplies! Sometimes I get the weirdest looks from people as I'm stacking piles of rocks on their carts and walking around and staring at the rock pile.

Yup, frogs and some cute spotted ones. Now if Tenecor could only move a little faster.



jobber604 said:


> I'm loving your new pleco cube project. A colony of frogs or 'other spotted' ones? They all seem to love the river rocks supplied by Northwest Landscape and Stone Supply located at 5883 Byrne Road, Burnaby, BC. I know of a local geologist that would love to help pick out rocks...haha
> Look forward to seeing your project(s) develop.


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## tony1928

Dying to do it! May as well go big for my first foray into discus. I'm still trying to figure out what I want it to look like. I'm going to try to keep things as simple as I can but providing some interesting space for the discus. I can't stand a bare tank.



gklaw said:


> 400 gallon discus !! Dying to see that.


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## tony1928

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I've updated this thread. Since then, I've cleared out the 400 in preparation of doing my first discus tank. Going to start a new thread so this one doesn't become longer than it already is. People can refer back to this thread if they want to read up on my build process. 

Cheers,
Tony


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## thefishwife

Looking fwd to seeing your 400 full of discus!!!!


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## jobber

I think the new thread can be found here:
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/tank-journals-16/my-400-gallon-discus-journey-24825/


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## tony1928

Thanks for the link Ming! I meant to come back to do it after I started the other thread.


jobber604 said:


> I think the new thread can be found here:
> http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/tank-journals-16/my-400-gallon-discus-journey-24825/


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## 2wheelsx2

I think Ming needs to cut and paste some discus into the tank like someone we used to know, just so Tony can see what's he's getting into.


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## jobber

This comes just as close. White sand, manzanita WOOD, some tetras.








From Symphysodon Discus à l'aquarium de la Porte dorée à Paris
Source: Aquascaping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> This comes just as close. White sand, manzanita WOOD, some tetras.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Symphysodon Discus à l'aquarium de la Porte dorée à Paris
> Source: Aquascaping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yep, looks like Tony's future tank.....


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## tony1928

man you guys set the bar so high......least you could have done was not use a pic of a multi-thousand gallon public aquarium.


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## 2wheelsx2

Well how about this one then? 










Source: plantedtank.net: The Planted Tank Forum - View Single Post - The behemoth, the 1600 gallon planted tank
From Tom Barr's 1600 gallon scape.


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## tony1928

Wow, check out that retro furniture! 

I think the paneling for that tank costs more than my whole set up all together. That's a tall tank....how do you even clean that???


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Wow, check out that retro furniture!
> 
> I think the paneling for that tank costs more than my whole set up all together. That's a tall tank....how do you even clean that???


Haha...if you go to that thread, one of the pics immediately above has Tom Barr inside the tank...


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## Luke78

Ming/Gary,

Incredible pics, now those are two stunning setups! I could just stare at that all day long instead of my TV or computer! Nice find! Hey Tony , you sure have your work cut out for you now, this is what you have to live up too Go big, or go home!


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## JohnnyAppleSnail

Talk about pressure! I wish you luck and look forward to following your build.
That Planted Tank (2nd pic) has to be the #1 most beautiful on the Planet.
I can only imagine if it were Salt.


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## babbar32

How were the costs to build this?


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## Vman

This tank just took me out of this world.Feels like watching Avatar for the first time.That tank is 3D right.?


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## enzotesta

I sure hope this tank is on a ground floor room..


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## Clownloachlover

Tony, referencing this post, post #119 you mention some very flexible hose from greenline, do you recall what type of hose it was or a part number by chance?


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## tony1928

Clownloachlover said:


> Tony, referencing this post, post #119 you mention some very flexible hose from greenline, do you recall what type of hose it was or a part number by chance?


I don't remember exactly what type. Just go to their site and download their water hose catalog. The only caveat is that the ribs prevent you from using a regular hose clamp. I believe they sell specialty hose clamps for that type of hose.


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## Clownloachlover

PS, your private message folders are full and unable to accept anymore messages. Thanks


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## tony1928

Clownloachlover said:


> PS, your private message folders are full and unable to accept anymore messages. Thanks


Yup. Got notified already. I let my donator status expire. Just cleaned it up.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2


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