# Need some advise - Keeping Discus



## Fansons (May 20, 2010)

Hi All

I have a 48G heavy planted tank, which has ECO complete and dosing CO2. I don't usually use plant food because I am too busy to keep up, so I use root tabs. I had this tank running for 2 years now. Currently there are 4 neons, 2 phantom, 2 cat fish, 1 small frog, 2 unknown small fish, and one algae eater. All fishes are small around 2 inches except algae eater, he goes big around 3 inches. I have 1x Fluval 206 and 1 Ehiem 2217 running. Doing water change every two weeks.


Recently, I am thinking to keep Discus. For my setup above, will I be able to do it without fish loss? I really don't have time to do daily water change. Weekly might be the best I can do.

So, I really need some advise, if discus is not for me, I will give up and not thinking about it. I might be able to shut-down this tank and do another one, but its too much work for a busy accountant.

Thanks for all your comment.


Fansons


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi Fansons, You could house a group of 5 discus in your tank. If you go with larger size discus you don't need to change as much water. 50% once a week will do. Get at least 4" size discus. Also make sure that your CO2 dosing is not creating PH swings as that would be stressful on the discus.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Sorry, Fansons, I don't have good news for you.
Your tank is too small to keep the reasonable number of discus (5 or 6) necessary to maintain an acceptable social order, unless you want to keep a mated pair & breed them. But that doesn't seem to fit into your plans either, because you have other livestock in your tank, it's heavily planted and you're running CO2. (Not a very good discus set-up.)
The biggest problem is that you can't devote the time to doing more than weekly water changes, and that would be a recipe for disappointment, if not disaster.
So to be completely candid, forget about discus until you are able to devote the necessary time to maintaining the high water quality conditions that are required by discus; you're prepared to invest in a larger tank, preferably at least 60 gallons; you have done your homework on keeping discus, you're happy with what you have learned, and you're fully comfortable with committing yourself to discus.


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## Fansons (May 20, 2010)

Thanks for all your comments.

I know my tank is a bit small for them, but I heard a lot of successful stories, some of those stories do involve large sumps with lots of filter media, which is possible for me, but in the mean time, I might have to keep only low light plants with no CO2.

So, If I run a large sump, lets say 30G and still have both filter running, and keep only 6 Discus, will I be able to do it with a weekly water change? My wife does not want me to spend too much time on fish, so if I do daily water change, she will give me "the face." Happy wife, happy life, eh? So, I think you can imaging that.


So, I might have to get a larger tank in the end, haha~ with larger tank, water parameter should be more stable.


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## josephl (Apr 21, 2010)

Canadian_Aqua_Farm said:


> Hi Fansons, You could house a group of 5 discus in your tank. If you go with larger size discus you don't need to change as much water. 50% once a week will do. Get at least 4" size discus. Also make sure that your CO2 dosing is not creating PH swings as that would be stressful on the discus.


I agree with Rick. With the small fish that you have, I would say you could easily keep 4 to 5 domestic discus in there without problems assuming you do regular water changes. As Rick says, start with larger ones and don't cheap out on food.

I would do water changes a little more regularly though, though you could get away with 50% once a week. I would get rid of the algae eater though


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## clairel (Apr 22, 2010)

*discus*

if the issue is about you, you can put any fish you want in any tank. if the issue is about the fish, you want to provide them with the best environment you possibly can. there are a couple of good articles on April's site. and lots of info online. check it out. just my two cents.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Strange, but there was an almost identical thread to this, posted on the simplydiscus forum a couple of days ago, and almost all of the replies (including mine) by experienced discus-keepers, said this was not a good idea - in contrast to this thread where the reaction seems to be a bit of the opposite.
I'm a little surprised that you good folks feel it's sound advice to tell someone who has no previous experience with keeping discus, that it's a-ok to keep 6 -4" discus in a heavily planted tank 48 gal tank, while running CO2, and doing only weekly water changes.
To me, that's kinda like "an accident waiting to happen" (particularly with a newbie to discus), or like a kid playing with matches - he's probably gonna get burned.
If Fansons were to agree with the advice here and do that, then I for one would be very interested to see pics of those discus after about 6 months in that environment, to see what kind of shape and condition the fish were in - those that were still alive, that is.
That's my .02 - without disrespect to anyone.


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## travistiale (Dec 14, 2010)

Anyone else want to weigh in on this?? Seems like we have two opposite opinions from experienced discus keepers. shall i say fight fight fight...


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## josephl (Apr 21, 2010)

I think it's just an issue of one's personal experience. 

I have always been successful going with 'normal discus tanks' and have done the following:

- more fish than 1 per 10 gallons
- and I change things up a lot. For a few years, I had had it as a high tech planted tank, then just gravel and wood, now low tech planted.
- lots of water circulation 
- I use charcoal and purigen
- community tank with angels, rainbows, wild bettas, glass fish and half beaks
- I source discus from multiple sources; if it's pretty I buy it(only problem I ever had was disease introduced by a Simply Discus sponsor, Dale Jordan)
- I feed live and frozen black worms almost exclusively

And my discus are thriving and spawning. Just because people sign up to Simply Discus as a member dosen't mean that instantly achieve god like powers and become discus experts. It could just mean that they are noisy and like to be heard....

Any disbelievers are more than welcome to come by and check out my two 'community discus tanks'


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

That's not my case Joseph - I'm not noisy and just like to be heard.
I've been fish-keeping for well over 50 years, since I was a kid, and have successfully kept discus many times over the years, in planted tanks mainly. You may or may not be aware, but I've also written a 17 page illustrated guide to getting started with Discus, which April Ross has on her website and which has also been posted as a Sticky by 6 aquarist forums, including Simply Discus about a year ago, and it's also posted in BIDKA's library (British & international Discus-keepers Association).
So, not to blow my own horn, but I believe I do know whereof I speak.


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## josephl (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm right behind you Paul at 43 years of fish keeping experience

I however, firmly believe that Discus are just a fish that needs to be kept at a slightly higher temp. than other tropicals. I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm just saying that my experience has varied from yours and it is my opinion that people over medicate and over think discus keeping. I think that it's harder to keep fancy guppies alive than it is to keep discus alive, thriving and spawning. They are after all, just a chiclid or if you look at it another way, an angelfish without fins

To me, the key is good stock to start with. Getting fish from April, Rick or Fraser Aquarium and you can pretty well do anything with them and they will thrive so long as you do water changes and feed them well. Start with some of the poor quality 'sale priced' runty stock that is available cheaply lately and there is nothing you can do to succeed


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

I have no argument with your above comments, Joseph. In fact I agree with several of your statements (e.g. getting good stock in the first place being 50% of the success with discus) as they are my credos as well.
My point in this case is simply that, in view of the OP not having any previous experience with discus, and because he lacks the time to devote to keeping discus thriving, it will likely prove difficult for him to maintain the necessary clean, quality water conditions in a heavily planted tank, and could open him up to rapid pH swings, or other problems, through the use of CO2 to maintain his plantings. That's a risk that even an experienced discus-keeper may have trouble dealing with. That's my sole point of issue in this discussion.
I will say no more on this subject - and please take no offence, as none was intended regarding your experience.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Well Joseph is successful.but his tank is big and you do lots of wc right? Also you know your discus. You know when they need wcs etc. You know when you can push the envelope..and when to back off. 
A beginner is best to start with basics and learn to read them..and get good growth going and know when they are happy or sad. I've see people defy odds..but they were also very good plant and tank keepers. Like Richard who grew out all those babies in a big planted tank. He kept his tank immaculate.
But I've seen more than usual...runted..bad shaped discus with raggedy tattered fins , Hith etc..from high bioloads.
That's the norm when people think they can start out like that. How many pics have you see on here of not good discus,,where all you could say is. Nice tank...or nice colour on that one discus.
How many heavily peppered unhappy pigeons have you seen. How many bad home raised discus have you seen floating around for sale. Like the "feeder" quality you saw lately. What happened there? Poor growing out techniques.
How about all those sad pics from petshops that were kept in 20 gallon tanks with gravel etc where they were black , concave, and dying. 
Have a look on www.forum.simplydiscus.com in the beginner section under what not to buy. Some sad cases.
I'd say start basic. Even ph, warm water, clean bb tank..and get them growing and learn their needs and mannerisms then once you get some growth happening then add them to your planted tank. You should get an inch a month growth about.
Don't buy pigeons for planted tanks as they do pepper more.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235504,-123.185067


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## Fansons (May 20, 2010)

I think I should say something to put this to an end.

First I do care about fish, that's why I am asking for opinions here. I don't want to go to LFS and get some discus without learning what's best for them.

Anyway, I have decided not to keep discus in my planted tank. I might be able to get away with weekly 50% WC, but in the end I might spend more time worry about them. I will not get rid of my algae eater because he is the best healper I have for three years. He always will run in circle and dance for me after I do a WC.

It's time to tell my wife we need a bigger tank! Ha~

Thanks for all comments here, you guys are great!


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## FishFreaks (May 15, 2011)

im 26 and ive kept and bred discus in my fishroom with my dad at our house for years when i was in my early teenage years. its trial and error i think you should definitly keep 4 or 5 four inch and do weekly water changes. no prob. discuspaul seems to like to make ppl think discus are super hard to keep and only experienced ppl should do it. how do you get experience and knowledge? through trying it yourself and having a keen eye for how your discus are feeling and acting and making adjustments accordingly......just my thoughts


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## Fansons (May 20, 2010)

Ya, I agree with you. Discus aren't cheap. Thanks for the advise.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

FishFreaks,

Discus paul offered decent and honest advice hence the decision already made by the OP. If you have deep pockets and want trial and error, thats your personal choice others may not want or have that option in the books.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

FishFreaks said:


> im 26 and ive kept and bred discus in my fishroom with my dad at our house for years when i was in my early teenage years. its trial and error i think you should definitly keep 4 or 5 four inch and do weekly water changes. no prob. discuspaul seems to like to make ppl think discus are super hard to keep and only experienced ppl should do it. how do you get experience and knowledge? through trying it yourself and having a keen eye for how your discus are feeling and acting and making adjustments accordingly......just my thoughts


I'm not trying to do that at all. 
Matter of fact, I'm a great optimist when it comes to discus. I've said many times that discus are hardy fish and not at all difficult to keep. All I want to suggest to people is that if they want to keep discus, they just need to do some homework ahead of time, and buy good quality healthy stock, to insure they get themselves off on the right footing.
I've seen and heard of too many horror stories of people jumping into discus, thinking there's nothing to it, and that they'll just fly by the seat of their pants, expecting success. 
Well, in my long experience, it doesn't happen that way - and 9 times our of 10, it's a disaster, but not many people will admit to that.
All you need do is go through the many daily posts on simplydiscus.com forum to actually see how many failures there are for newbies to discus, thinking they'll just go with the flow, without getting sufficient knowledge of discus first.
All I try to do is caution the discus newbies, so they can avoid the pitfalls that many discus keepers experience the first time around.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Luke78 said:


> Fansons,
> 
> Discus paul offered decent and honest advice hence the decision already made by the OP. If you have deep pockets and want trial and error, thats your personal choice others may not want or have that option in the books.


Thanks Luke - That's what I felt I was doing - offering decent & honest advice.
Your comments are much appreciated.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

FishFreaks said:


> im 26 and ive kept and bred discus in my fishroom with my dad at our house for years when i was in my early teenage years. its trial and error i think you should definitly keep 4 or 5 four inch and do weekly water changes. no prob. discuspaul seems to like to make ppl think discus are super hard to keep and only experienced ppl should do it. how do you get experience and knowledge? through trying it yourself and having a keen eye for how your discus are feeling and acting and making adjustments accordingly......just my thoughts


I'm not trying to do that at all. 
Matter of fact, I'm a great optimist when it comes to discus. I've said many times that discus are hardy fish and not at all difficult to keep. All I want to suggest to people is that if they want to keep discus, they just need to do some homework ahead of time, and buy good quality healthy stock, to insure they get themselves off on the right footing.
I've seen and heard of too many horror stories of people jumping into discus, thinking there's nothing to it, and that they'll just fly by the seat of their pants, expecting success. 
Well, in my long experience, it doesn't happen that way - and 9 times our of 10, it's a disaster, but not many people will admit to that.
All you need do is go through the many daily posts on simplydiscus.com forum to actually see how many failures there are for newbies to discus, thinking they'll just go with the flow, without getting sufficient knowledge of discus first.
All I try to do is caution the discus newbies, so they can avoid the pitfalls that many discus keepers experience the first time around.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

DiscusPaul,

Sometimes the truth and reality are hard concepts for some to comprehend.As mentioned on a site i cant recall at the moment,'either your a fish keeper',or a 'fish haver'.This is so true and has stuck with me ever since i saw this.The Discus experience can be either pleasant and rewarding, or down right terrbile and disappointing.Why not start off on the right foot as you mentioned already in a few posts.

Luke



discuspaul said:


> I'm not trying to do that at all.
> Matter of fact, I'm a great optimist when it comes to discus. I've said many times that discus are hardy fish and not at all difficult to keep. All I want to suggest to people is that if they want to keep discus, they just need to do some homework ahead of time, and buy good quality healthy stock, to insure they get themselves off on the right footing.
> I've seen and heard of too many horror stories of people jumping into discus, thinking there's nothing to it, and that they'll just fly by the seat of their pants, expecting success.
> Well, in my long experience, it doesn't happen that way - and 9 times our of 10, it's a disaster, but not many people will admit to that.
> ...


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