# Extremely Slow Fishless Cycle Experiences?



## Spit1A (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I started up a new tank about 10 weeks ago. I have been doing a fishless cycle but have not really seen much progress. Currently, I am keeping the Ammonia up around 3-4ppm by adding pure ammonia.
Every 24 hrs I test the water and the results are:
Ammonia: 2ppm, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: slowly increasing (I lost the colour chart for this test....)

So it seems like there might be some beneficial bacteria in there, but not much? Not enough to process all the Ammonia, but enough to process the Nitrite?

I was just wondering how long it has taken others to complete a fishless cycle in the past? I have only done this with one other aquarium and that only took 4 weeks.

Here are some details about my setup

Tank: ada 60P
Temperature: about 27 C
Filter: AC50 (sponge filter, no Carbon, two bio ball bag things)
Aeration: I added an airstone recently because I read that it might help grow the bacteria.
Substrate: ADA Aquasoil and sand
Plants: Lots of plants taken from established, cycled tanks
Water conditioner: Seachem Prime
Seed material: filter squeezings from my betta tank

At this point I'm starting to wonder if I've got something in the tank that is killing the beneficial bacteria?


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

just get some used media from someones larger established tank and get it over with so you can enjoy the tank. put an ad in the classifieds. members will help you out with this. good luck.


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

I think your plants are using the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Your plants have acted like a filter as well establishing some bacterial colonies. I would stop adding ammonia, get a few hardy fish (zebra danios white clouds), and monitor your water parameters. I thought you'll find that all is good in your tank. I would also add a bit of equilibrium as a GH buffer for your plants. Is your PH stable? Are you plants healthy? If so I would imagine your tank is fully cycled and fish ready.

JMHO.

Stuart


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## Bobsidd (Dec 28, 2012)

The ADA AquaSoil leaches ammonia too. When I cycle a new tank with AquaSoil, I do big water changes to remove the excess ammonia. If you don't dose ammonia, does your ammonia reading drop to 0? If not, then the AquaSoil could be the culprit. Frequent water changes to remove the ammonia that's leaching, then test your filter by dosing the ammonia or adding hardy fish. I would agree with Stuart that your tank is probably good to go, once you get the remaining ammonia out.

Cheers,
Rob


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

What is your pH and KH? If your pH has crashed, that would slow down or even stop the cycling process. That whole cycling process burns up a lot of carbonates. My fishless cycles took approx. 6 weeks from scratch.


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## Spit1A (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks for your comments and suggestions guys. They give me hope! My plants do look healthy. I just did a 50% water change to get rid of some ammonia.

I checked my pH and it looks like it was around 6.0 or possibly lower...so maybe I did have a pH crash. I was out of town for work for about 2 weeks so there were no water changes over that period. Maybe that's when the crash happened?

I tested my GH and KH and I think they are really low (0-1 degrees?) I'm using the API test kit for these but I'm not sure if I'm reading them correctly. For KH, the solution is supposed to change from blue to yellow. But right out of the bottle the kH solution looks yellow? If my KH was higher would it change to blue initially until I added enough of the KH solution?

I know our tap water is pretty acidic and soft (tested my tap water and pH=6.4, KH & GH both between 0-1 degrees). Do you all put additives like Equilibrium and Alkaline Buffer to increase GH and KH? Or would weekly partial water changes be enough? 

Thanks again!


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

If your test kits are turning the required colour out if the bottle, this usually means your KH and GH are too low (I found the API kits harder to read but the colour change was apparent). I use 1/2 tsp Equilibrium and and 1/16 tsp Kent PH Stable per 2.5 gallons of replacement water (once the initial dosage of 2 tsp of Equilibrium and 1/4 tsp of PH Stable is used per 10 gallons of makeup water). I tend to have good results at these levels.

Best regards,

Stuart


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Spit1A said:


> Thanks for your comments and suggestions guys. They give me hope! My plants do look healthy. I just did a 50% water change to get rid of some ammonia.
> 
> I checked my pH and it looks like it was around 6.0 or possibly lower...so maybe I did have a pH crash. I was out of town for work for about 2 weeks so there were no water changes over that period. Maybe that's when the crash happened?
> 
> ...


Yup... that'd do it. Your pH is probably quite a bit lower than 6.0 (probably about 4 or 5... although the aquasoil may or may not have an effect there. Hard to say with the proprietary stuff); which shuts the bacteria right down.

Baking soda will fix the pH/KH problem. Although it you can get potassium bicarbonate (from hydroponics stores or some of the more specialist LFS's... I believe Canadian Aquatics has some) that's better for planted tanks. Whatever you go with add enough of it so that your KH test reads above 3 dKH.

As far as what to do with the water long term; it partly depends on what stock you plan on keeping in there and partly on personal preference. There are commercial mixes (equilibrium et al), DIY salt recipies (my personal favourite) and 'natural' solutions (crushed coral, etc in the filter).


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Rockman said:


> Baking soda will fix the pH/KH problem. Although it you can get potassium bicarbonate (from hydroponics stores or some of the more specialist LFS's... I believe Canadian Aquatics has some) that's better for planted tanks. Whatever you go with add enough of it so that your KH test reads above 3 dKH.


Hey Rockman. I tried getting Fertz from the hydroponic store. They only sell in bulk and you have to buy a lot. Atleast the 1 near my house so Im assuming most are the same. J&L is also selling Fertz now too  They had a bunch of different ones in clear jugs. Must be new!


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Hey Rockman. I tried getting Fertz from the hydroponic store. They only sell in bulk and you have to buy a lot. Atleast the 1 near my house so Im assuming most are the same. J&L is also selling Fertz now too  They had a bunch of different ones in clear jugs. Must be new!


Huh... I've never had that problem. My guy sells it in little baggies for 5-10 bucks. Maybe shop around a bit? This is BC after all... there are lots of hydroponics stores around.


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## Spit1A (Apr 7, 2014)

Rockman said:


> Baking soda will fix the pH/KH problem. Although it you can get potassium bicarbonate (from hydroponics stores or some of the more specialist LFS's... I believe Canadian Aquatics has some) that's better for planted tanks. Whatever you go with add enough of it so that your KH test reads above 3 dKH.
> 
> As far as what to do with the water long term; it partly depends on what stock you plan on keeping in there and partly on personal preference. There are commercial mixes (equilibrium et al), DIY salt recipies (my personal favourite) and 'natural' solutions (crushed coral, etc in the filter).


I'm thinking of keeping tetras, some otos, and some cherry and amano shrimp. I was hesitant to increase pH/KH because of the cherry shrimp but I guess having some pH stability is more important. Especially if I decide to add CO2 in the future....

At this stage I'm thinking I'll start with Equilibrium to increase GH.

For increasing KH, is potassium bicarbonate better than baking soda for planted tanks just because plants can use the potassium? So using baking soda won't harm the plants, but it won't help them either?

Thanks!


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Cherries are pretty adaptable; they won't mind a bit of hardness (might acutally appreciate it). But yeah; stability is important. Typically having a KH of 3-5 DKH is recommended for softwater planted tanks. That way you've got enough buffer to prevent pH swings and you don't have to worry about a sudden plunge into the death zone.

Yeah. Sodium is kind of a junk ion; it sits around and doesn't do much (you can get issues at higher concentrations... but you'd need quite a bit of it). Potassium is more useful (being a macronutrient. A lot of planted tanks end up being potassium deficient if you don't use a macro fertilizer). If you can get it potassium bicarb is nice for continuing use; but sodium bicarb will work too.


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## Spit1A (Apr 7, 2014)

Another quick question.

Is it alright to pre-mix a bunch of water to the desired dGH and dKH and store it in jugs with lids for 1 week? Will the water parameters change much over that time? 

I'm just trying to figure out how to make water changes as easy and simple as possible.

Thanks!


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## Arcteryx (Nov 23, 2011)

Same question here re: pre-mixing!


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