# filtration not powerful enough?



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

Not sure if I'm underfiltered or what, but I've got crap left on my sand bed.

Tank: 125g
Filters: 2x XP4
Circulation: 3x 1400gph hydor koralia powerhead

I don't have water clarity or issues regarding the water itself, just crap not being picked up.
I do 2 50% water changes a week, 10min later I see crap floating around again.
I also do monthly cleaning on my filters. Never clean both at the same time tho.

Reading the specs on the filter and pumps, I technically have enough filtration and more than enough circulation, but there's still stuff not being picked up.

I know filters can't be replaced by vaccuming during wc, but why am I still seeing floaties?

Its a stocked tank with plants and a few poop generating plecos. Am I in the wrong to expect my xp4's to do everything?

Again, no issues with water clarity or parameters, just a bit too much crap floating around.

I may be a little OCD with it, there really isnt a TON of crap making it unsightly, just a bit more than what I'd like to see with the ammountof circulation.

Thoughts?


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

The canister filters suck dirty water from about a foot below the surface. That may be why floaties don't get filtered out. Poop in the mid to lower water column are being filtered out, but floaties are well above where the dirty water enters your filters. Perhaps invest in one of those surface skimmers for canister filters or the new Eheim 350 Surface skimmer J&L has for sale.

Personally, I would add a smaller canister with a surface skimming attachment specifically for getting rid of floaties, but ask them at J&L if the Eheim unit will also remove floaties or just surface scum.

Anthony


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

Can you post a picture of your tank and location of the powerheads. I bet its a mix of feeding to much and improper placement of your power heads and filter intakes. Your aqua scape has something to do with it as well. Your rock work could be breaking up a steady current on your sand bed and debris may be getting trapped in it.

I would try and feed every other day, readjust your powerhead placement and move some rock work around to coincide with your power head placement.

Your dual xp4's are more then enough filtration. What do you have in your filters? How big are your plecos, how many and how much food do they get. They are poop machines ya know.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

Placement of your powerheads and pick-up/returns from the filters has a huge impact on where the crap ends up. You can direct it so all the poop ends up in one spot and easy to vaccum, or you can direct it to towards filter pick-ups.

On my 6' tank, I have 2 eheim 2028's, 2 tunze powerheads and a sump. Very little poop collects on the bottom, sump gets most and the filters get cleaned about once a month. Feeding halfway through a 70% water change stirs up anything on the bottom.


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

Here you go. 2 power head at the side glass on the left, and one on the back glass on the right.
Spray bars from the xp4's are on either side of the tank aimed downwards so stuff doesn't collect in the hard to reach places.

The poop and crap does end up in one area- front left side of the tank under the powerhead that's aimed upwards.
I would like that pile to circulate and get sucked into to intake or just break down and eventually get sucked in.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Floaties may mean small air bubbles in the poops. Wonder if having a HK right at the surface will create enough agitation to swirl it back down so the canister intake can suck it up? HK 4s only blow max. of 4' and you have a 6' tank so positioning will be key.


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

When I refered to "floaties", I'm referring to bits of food/poop, just to be clear.


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

As you can see in the pic, I have one of the powerhead directed at the top already. 
Stuff doesn't ly still on the right of the tank. Only on the right under the powerheads. Perhaps one of those nees to be repositioned?


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

AKAmikeross said:


> Your dual xp4's are more then enough filtration. What do you have in your filters?.


Starting from the bottom try of the filter:
4x coarse sponges. The other 3 trays are filled to the max with ceramic bio rings.
Occasionally ill run purigen/carbon in one of the top trays. 
Both canisters are stcked the same way.


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

Play with the powerhead locations. You have enough water movement. Do you have glass tops? I stuck three powerheads on my glass tops aimed down at various angles. I had to play with it a number of times to get it right, but I don't have any poop left on the sand bottom. You can turn them off if during water changes if need be.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

What type of plecos are they? The unfortunate reality is that with sand and plecos, you will always see poop flying around, unless it's being pushed into a corner somewhere and collected. Plecos are poop machines.


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

No, I dont have glass tops to try that...

Wondering if i should ditch the 2 xp4's and go with the new Fluval fx6...?


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> What type of plecos are they? The unfortunate reality is that with sand and plecos, you will always see poop flying around, unless it's being pushed into a corner somewhere and collected. Plecos are poop machines.


Dont know all the L #'s, but ive got a L190, orange seam, green phantom, clown, gold spot and a few bristlenose's.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

hi-revs said:


> Dont know all the L #'s, but ive got a L190, orange seam, green phantom, clown, gold spot and a few bristlenose's.


L190 is a Panaque and Clown Pleco is probably Panaque maccus (L104 although L's are generally not used after a species is described) are your culprits. The Panaque genus is comprised of wood grazers and awfuchs eaters which rasp their food and have long gullets to digest it. They have long stringy poop which goes on and on.

The Orange Seam (Hemiancistrus guahiborum - L106) and Gold Spot (L201?) and Green Phantom (Hemiancistrus subviridus - L200) would not generate as much poop. But then of course the BNP will more than make up for that with their poop. Just be glad you don't have a tankful of Panaque and the associated sawdust poop. 

Honestly, no amount of filtration is going to keep your tank clear all the time with that many plecos in the tank, unfortunately.


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

2wheelsx2- Do you think the 2 xp4's are enough filtration? or should i go with something more powerful?
I kind of regret not going with a fx5 at the get go...


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm gonna disagree with gary, just for fun. Don't blame the plecos. I've got more plecos poopers, africans, clown loaches and no plants.

My 2 cents, I would move the powerheads down to the same level as your filter intakes. I would have one pushing water down the front side of the tank, and the one on the other side pushing it across the backside of the tank going past the filters. If you have the returns on either end, I would have one pushing water straight down, and the other across the surface. When you do your water change, bigger change. Filter clean schedule sounds good.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I use a powerhead with a prefilter to help collect the poop rather than let the canisters collect it. Easy to rinse out the prefilter every few days. 

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

Yup. I've always used prefilters


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

is that a sponge in the filter intake? If so, how about removing it?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't think more powerful is the answer. I have an FX5, XP3, 2028, an HK3 plus an MJ400 with the sure flow mod, plus an MJ400 with a foam prefilter driving a Purigen TLF reactor and I don't consider my 125 "floaty" free. But then I have a lot more plecos than you, without incriminating myself with a number. A 7" L190, 8, L25, 9" L24, 8" L160, a 6 L137 amongst others.

As for getting a tank floaty free, that's a perception thing. People come to my house and say how my tanks are so clean and I'm like, huh? Don't you see all the floaties? Well, they don't. So it's all a matter of perspective.

And I do have some tanks which are floaty free, but they are either pleco free and heavily planted, or they are bare-bottomed with no plants. IMO, plants+wood+ plecos = poop everywhere.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I was thinking about it a bit last night and there is another factor. Frequency of feeding. I've gone to 1 feeding a day in my 125 gallon so the level of floaties is more acceptable. In my discus tank (93 gal) I feed 3 - 4 times a day and there is constantly floaties in the water column, but it has less filtration (Eheim 2078, Eheim Skim 350, HK1, and Vortech MP10). That tank could use more filtration but since it's Eurobraced and direct plumbed I cannot easily do it. The catfish (plecos and cories) are constantly rooting for food which stirs up any detritus off the substrate.

So if you're feeding once a day and you have floaties for hours after feeding, then yes, I think you need more filtration. But if you are feeding multiple times a day and only get floaties for 20 minutes after feeding then I think you're fine and may just need to rearrange your flow as others have suggested.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

No question or doubt who has a ton of big plecos :bigsmile:, also no doubt that after a big zucchini and yam feed that I don't have clear water for a while.

Just suggesting without spending a pile of money, hi-revs may find efficiencies in his operation to improve the situation. I used to have significantly more poop floating around and collecting on the bottom. Charles made a few suggestions that paid off in spades. My tank is cleaner, better water quality for less work.

Another thing that has helped in my case is getting everyone in the tank eating NLS. I still do yam and zucchini for the plecos but not as much.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

mdwflyer said:


> Another thing that has helped in my case is getting everyone in the tank eating NLS. I still do yam and zucchini for the plecos but not as much.


You're right on the money there. I rarely feed much veggies any more. What I feed now for roughly is mainly Ken's catfish sticks with wood. Veggies are a rare treat as I end up with water quality and healthy issues due to bloating. I have really minimized my fishkeeping problems by going to prepared foods.


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

What NLS stand for?


I throw in a piece of zucchini every night 1hr before lights out. 
My auto feeder drops a few pellets 4x throughout the day.
And I drop in some krill every other day.

I don't think I'm really over feeding though since the food gets cleared up in 20min or so.
Just scared that the slower fish aren't eating if I cut down on feeding.

I've also got a razorback musk turtle in there that needs to be fed. He may not be the quickest to get the food. So I need to feed a bit more to ensure he gets food so he doesn't go fishing 

I'll play with the powerheads to see what results I can get.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

NLS= new life spectrum


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

hi-revs said:


> I throw in a piece of zucchini every night 1hr before lights out.


There's your answer. It's not that you're overfeeding. But the fact that you feed veggies every night. The plecos tear it up and then they poop it all out. If you look at the poop, it'll look like shaved zucchini. To clean it up, you can just feed regular food most of the time and feed fresh veggies 2x a week. I bet you'll notice you have no floaties on the second day after a veggie feeding, once the leftover floaty bits have been removed.


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## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

Sounds good. I'll cut down on the zucchini feeding.
They tend to like krill just as much tho..


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