# help: plant dying



## janesc2003 (Dec 11, 2011)

Hi, everyone:

This is the second time that I ask for advice for my dying plants. I don't know how to describe the problem properly but most plants turn yellow and get rusty spots on the leaves before rot away. As for my floating plants, they're getting yellow too and the stems break easily and shed leaves. Though I've added flourish excel ( liquid co2 injection) and flourish (comprehensive supplement) they both didn't work well. Could it be anything else wrong or it just takes time for my plants to recover? I was told that I might need ADA substrate for better results. Does anyone here have used ADA substrate to give away or for sale? Please let me know. Thanks in advance.

Jane


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## theinnkeeper (Sep 12, 2011)

What substrate are you using now?


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

What type of substrate do you have?
What type of plants are you trying to grow?

From: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/plan.../help-plants-keep-turning-yellow-rusty-23482/



Captured Moments said:


> I don't think guppies eat plants unless they are decaying and they hungry and they peck on plant debris maybe. 2 bulbs @ 96 watts should be enough to grow most plants but it's not really the right spectrum @ 10000K. Plants prefer around 6700 K spectrum.
> Looks like your plants are dying because they are starving and something is deficient. Probably fertilizers but it can also be deficient in carbon source. Presume your tank is 4 ft. so 2 bulbs would put you around 1.5 watts per gallon, low-medium light level I would guess.
> Your tank would most likely benefit from the addition of some fertilizers (Micro and Macro on occasion) as well as some carbon source such as injecting Co2, putting Flourish Excel (Seachem brand) or a medical supply product Metricide 14 which can be used instead of Flourish Excel.
> 10-12 hrs of light is perhaps too long a photoperiod. I would try reducing it to 8-10 hrs of light instead.. that would help with the algae as well.
> Algae on the glass does not allways translate to too much light. It is more of something to do with a balance between the plant health given the growing conditions (light, ferts, carbon source - your 3 elements essentially).


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

What kind of plants do you have? Hornwort will drop its needles or leaves when it runs out of nitrates, I found.

With the leaves all going yellow, maybe you're missing some trace elements. I see that you're adding Flourish Comprehensive. You can also get a bottle of Flourish Trace at the same place. 

I would try that before switching your substrate, which would be a lot of work. Changing your substrate wouldn't make a difference for your floating plants, for example. I have plants growing in plain sand and plain gravel, all doing just as well as the ones in Eco-Complete. If you're worried about your substrate, you can add some fertilizer tabs, available from most aquarium stores. Seachem (the company that makes the other products you're using) makes some, but there are other brands.

Good luck!


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## neven (May 15, 2010)




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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Rusty spots on java ferns will mean lack of nitrates
More often than not, yellowing leaves with dead patches on other plants is related to a lack of all macro's not just one (potassium, nitrate, and phosphates)
worry about the other nutrients only once you eliminated the macro nutrients as the cause.

If co2 is the cause, then cut your light period to under 10 hours, if it still doesn't work, raise the lights a bit


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## Captured Moments (Apr 22, 2010)

I wouldn't want you to think that ADA substrate would solve all your problems.
Besides the fact that it is fairly expensive, it is by no means the only substrate that will allow you to grow plants successfully. If assuming that your plants are not doing well right now because of the fact that they are starving of needed nutrients (Macro and/or Micro), then switching from your current substrate which we still don't know what it is, to a substrate type that is nutrient rich such as ADA may resolve the issue. The plants will get the needed nutrients from the soil. 
As Morainy has said, you can use root tabs under the substrate to artificially enrich or you can simply dose the water column with needed macro and micro nutrients. You have already solved the carbon issue by adding Flourish excel and the light is presumed satisfactory.
I believe that plants will adapt to whatever is available to them nutrient wise.. via the roots and/or the leaves (water column).


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Make sure the root tabs contain some form of nitrogen, some skip the nitrogen.

I personally use job spikes, others use aquarium brands. aother option is half filled ice cubes with potters clay and osmocote. This gives you iron and macro nutrients that are slow release, the ice cube makes it easy to push into the substrate. ikea sells stick ice cube trays, which are the perfect size for it


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## Arcteryx (Nov 23, 2011)

Post a pic of one of the plants with the problem?


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## AquaSox (Jun 9, 2010)

If you have brand new plants from the local fish store, it could be the leaves could be falling off due to emersed growth making the transition to the submerged form. Also could be due to lower leaves not getting enough light. How are the new leaves?

As a side note Flourish Excel if far from a substitute for actual CO2.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

I havn't seen any mention of lights... what lighting do you have on your tank?


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

What kind of lighting? (i.e. Wattage)
How big is your tank?
What kind of plants do you have?
What kind of substrate do you have?
How much Excel do you dose?
How often do you dose Excel?
How long do you keep your lights on?


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## janesc2003 (Dec 11, 2011)

*thanks, everyone*

I just found out that I have java fern, java moss, hornwort and some other plants that I don't know the names of. Nutrient deficiency mostly shows up on java fern. And my hornwort's losing its needle leaves and turn yellow probrably due to lack of nitrates. It's too bad that I can't upload photos on here though I've tried dozens of times. And I'm using plain gravel substrate for now. Thanks for all these information provided above.


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually, the questions I raised were questions I was asked by more experienced members in this forum when I was just starting out in this hobby. Without pictures and without specs, it usually frustrates members trying to help. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just trying to pave the way for you to get the answer(s) to your question as to why your plants are dying. cheers.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

All the plants you listed do not require substrate so that's not the problem. A description of your tank would help.

Temp, pH, substrate, size, lighting period, number and types of bulbs, how often and amounts you dose, what type of fish, how many plants, etc. etc.

Oh and just a minor pet peeve of mine. Flourish Excel is NOT liquid CO2. CO2 and Excel are both forms of carbon for the plants, but CO2 release carbon that's more readily utilized by plants. All things being equal, CO2 grown plants will be stronger, colour up better, grow faster, etc. than plants grown with Excel.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

use a website called photobucket.com to upload your pictures and from there it is easy to paste the photos into your post and they will show up in high resolution


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## stonedaquarium (Jun 11, 2011)

if you are concerned about your java fern and horn worts which are nitrate sponges.. i suggest ramping up your nitrates... if you want to go liquid... seachem flourish nitrogen would help... i personally prefer dry ferts.. .potassium nitrate... you can pm mykiss for potassium nitrate in powder form... hope that helps... 

of the plants you mentioned, all of those are pretty hardy plants virtually almost impossible to kill.. i once left java ferns and hornworts in a bucket with almost no light and they survived... 

another question is how long have you had your plants in your tank? i could also be an adjustment period for your plants to get used to the water parameters in your tank ...


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## AquaSox (Jun 9, 2010)

*You are probably better focussing on light and CO2 which are paramount. Tom Barr on nutrient charts:*

*
Since we use fake light and also add CO2, these play a huge role, vs the terrestrial plant charts which are not that good, each species also has a differential ability to respond to different nutrient stresses and CO2, and light as well, so with some 300-400 species commonly kept, generalizations are not good here.

I'd take a pic and post that, much better.
Then folks have something to work with.
I've never liked any charts to date, and likely will not use nor recommend them. *

_*Except the nutrient deficiency chart is incorrect all over the place.

It does no one in this hobby any good putting up unverified garbage like that.
I've yet to see a single case that was verified for Ca++ deficiency in the tips of aquatic plant. 
I had 52ppm of Mg, no issues with tip growth here:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u312/plantbrain/Redsized20galmred.jpg
Same for K+ excess. This crap is a croc of speculation that's been falsied, but some bozos wanna run around insisting they are still right and that there are many ways to do things........and other BS rational.

I've also seen dozens of cases due to CO2, and CO2 must be treated as a limiting nutrient in submersed growth.
To not do so, it a huge error.

In order to look at nutrients fairly and independently, you must have total control over light, and CO2, and nutrients, not just nutrients alone, there's depdendency on the other two of the Big three.
The goal with EI is making the nutrients independent, it does not make light/CO2 independent and will often illustrate folks having issues with light/CO2/current etc even more.

So when folks who lack the ability to test correctly and do not check their work do such charts, it leads to the same type of myths that PO4 for algae control was based on, heat cables, power sand, AquaEcoloizers etc, Penac etc

I've never seen a single decent nutrient deficiency chart to date. Some plants will fall into some groups, but many others will not respond at all.
There's no easy answer here, no matter how bad some want to think they know what is going on.* _

*Links:*

nutrient deficiency symptoms/guide
Wet's EI modeling dosing calculator [Archive] - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report


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