# Fishless Cycle ammonia



## dsouthworth (Nov 21, 2011)

Hey all!
For those of you who did a fishless cycle, where did you purchase you're ammonia? brand name as well?
I dont want to buy the wrong stuff!


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## Arcteryx (Nov 23, 2011)

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/freshwater-chat-9/[fishless-cycling]-ammonia-where-get-22701/



3-4 drops per gallon, folks in the thread had used basic Safeway brand & the one from London Drugs. From the packaging I think it's made by the same folks.


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## waterlilly (Aug 22, 2010)

I used the London Drugs band ammonia as well. Just make sure it's pure. It worked really well. Good luck.


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## d.co (Dec 30, 2011)

Don't use the no-name "household ammonia" from superstore. Picked up a jug last night.. doesn't list any ingredients and didn't seem to have any surfactants but when I brought it home and gave it the shake test in a water bottle it foamed up quite a bit. (20min later and there is still a ring of foam in the bottle)

Looks like I'm headed up to safeway! Going to pick it up right now, will report back with what I find.. but i suspect it will be okay since other members have used it.


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## dsouthworth (Nov 21, 2011)

I just got some from safeway!
right on the bottle it read's the ingredients!
Water, and ammoniumhydroxide
It's a clear white bottle


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## d.co (Dec 30, 2011)

Damn, wish I went to your safeway.... the one in coquitlam only had ammonia with "lemon scent and sudsy action" lol
Needless to say I went to home depot, rona, walmart, and london drugs.
London drugs being the furthest away so I went there last and they were the only one that had it.
Was a bit sceptical because it was in the exact same bottle as the superstore no-name brand, and didn't list ingredients... but got home and gave it a hard 30sec shake and no foam at all...

Looks like Safeway and London Drugs are the place to go.


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## Flaming Fighter (Dec 25, 2011)

*London Drugs ammonia will raise pH*

Hi all,

Just thought people would be interested to know that LD ammonia will raise the pH. The long version below:

I just started a fishless cycle for the first time with London Drug ammonia all-purpose cleaner. I tested the waters with API test kit and found that it will rise the pH quite a bit.

My pH went from 6.8 to 8.4 with 1mL of ammonia in 2 gallons of water. (the ammonia level went to 2ppm) The reading could be a little bit off from some residual baking soda because I had added in a pinch before realizing what's going on and did a 95% water change.

I read somewhere that it is best to cycle at ~7.5 pH so I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will start.

Also, my small tank has a piece of driftwood plus java moss and 2 stems of pothos. I hope they make it as well.


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## Sweetpea (Nov 7, 2011)

I did a fishless cycle with ammonia from Superstore in October, and it worked like a charm (fully cycled in less than 3 weeks). It had no ingredients listed, but when I did the shaking test, it didn't seem to produce foam/suds at all, so I thought it must be pure. HOWEVER, I've since been trying to cycle a tank at my workplace, and using a different bottle of the exact same product (i.e. also bought at Superstore), and I have been having extremely lengthy difficulties getting the tank to cycle this time.

I didn't do a shake test for this new bottle because I thought I was just buying a familiar product, but now I'm wondering if maybe they have different suppliers etc., but slap the same label on...I have been racking my brains trying to figure out why it would work so perfectly the first time but not now. When I get to work tomorrow, I will do the shaking test again, and maybe I'll just go ahead and get a new bottle from Safeway or whatever, based on your recommendations above. Thanks!


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Ammonia is a base, I think it has a pH over 11, so it wouldn't just be London Drugs ammonia that will raise your pH. Are you cycling a 2 gallon tank? For a small tank, I would consider buying a small bottle of Stability instead.

I find that in fishless cycling, you are more likely to have a pH crash the further you get into the cycle. Our lower mainland waters have 0 buffering capacity so either buffer it with baking soda or something to keep your pH stable. I used aragonite in the filter and that kept a pH of 7.6 throughout the cycle. I never had the elevated pH that you have - maybe too much baking soda? What is your KH reading after adding the baking soda?


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Sweetpea said:


> I did a fishless cycle with ammonia from Superstore in October, and it worked like a charm (fully cycled in less than 3 weeks). It had no ingredients listed, but when I did the shaking test, it didn't seem to produce foam/suds at all, so I thought it must be pure. HOWEVER, I've since been trying to cycle a tank at my workplace, and using a different bottle of the exact same product (i.e. also bought at Superstore), and I have been having extremely lengthy difficulties getting the tank to cycle this time.
> 
> I didn't do a shake test for this new bottle because I thought I was just buying a familiar product, but now I'm wondering if maybe they have different suppliers etc., but slap the same label on...I have been racking my brains trying to figure out why it would work so perfectly the first time but not now. When I get to work tomorrow, I will do the shaking test again, and maybe I'll just go ahead and get a new bottle from Safeway or whatever, based on your recommendations above. Thanks!


Post your readings from your tank at work, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH and KH, that may give us an idea where you are at in your cycle before buying a new bottle of ammonia.


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## Flaming Fighter (Dec 25, 2011)

Yes. I am cycling a really small desktop tank at 2.65 gallon (this). After the driftwood and substrate it will only hold 2 gallons of water.

Thanks for the recommendation hp10BII. I read good reviews on Seachem Stability. Do you know where I can grab a small bottle from? IPU maybe?

Unfortunately I do not have KH test kits. I suspect I will have a pH crash now that you mention it since the driftwood's tannin lowers about 0.4 pH from regular tap water over a period of 2 days.

As I spent quite a lot recently, I will consider buying extra aquarium stuff later if it all doesn't work out.


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

Hello just curious, why wouldn't you just add cycle and add fish or shrimp. i have never heard of using ammonia. is this an old school way ? also if you soak your driftwood in a bucket for a week changing the water when it is a tea color it should not release excessive tannins into your tank that will alter your Ph. Cheers


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Flaming Fighter said:


> Yes. I am cycling a really small desktop tank at 2.65 gallon (this). After the driftwood and substrate it will only hold 2 gallons of water.
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation hp10BII. I read good reviews on Seachem Stability. Do you know where I can grab a small bottle from? IPU maybe?
> 
> ...


I've done about 5 fishless cycles, the latest I didn't have time since my baby tropheus didn't want to wait for the cycle to complete so I bought Stability from J&L Aquatics. Maybe IPU has it too. Smallest size:

SeaChem Stability Water Conditioner - 250ml


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Scherb said:


> Hello just curious, why wouldn't you just add cycle and add fish or shrimp. i have never heard of using ammonia. is this an old school way ? also if you soak your driftwood in a bucket for a week changing the water when it is a tea color it should not release excessive tannins into your tank that will alter your Ph. Cheers


Not old school, but it's been around for a little over 10 years now, based on articles written by Dr Chris Cow:

Fishless Cycling

Cycle never did anything for my tanks, it took the same amount of time for my tank to complete it's cycle. Maybe current forumulas are better. Stability worked for me.


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## Sweetpea (Nov 7, 2011)

hp10BII said:


> Post your readings from your tank at work, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH and KH, that may give us an idea where you are at in your cycle before buying a new bottle of ammonia.


Thanks for the offer. I've left my notebook with test readings at school (my workplace), where I've been having the weird start/stop fishless cycle I mentioned above...unlike my home display tank, where the method worked BEAUTIFULLY. I think I was silly to suspect the ammonia, but jumped on this as a possible issue for the weird cycle I've been having. I don't want to highjack this thread; I'll start a new thread to get input if my cycle issues continue. I'm seeing signs that it's working ok now, though slowly. Thanks!


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## Sweetpea (Nov 7, 2011)

hp10BII said:


> Stability worked for me.


Hmmm, I used Stability when cycling my display tank, on the advice of my LFS. At the time (October 2011), I was brand new to aquariums. Since then, the reading I'd done online made me question whether this product had any value. I haven't used it on the tank at school, so possibly that's why I've seemed to have less success, or at least a much slower process.  Not to jinx myself (!!), but it seems to be working now, so I'll just hope for the best, but perhaps will try Stability if I'm doing another fishless cycle in the future.


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## rodforman (Mar 18, 2012)

Searching for pure ammonia is like searching for a unicorn. First I went to London drugs and found a product that claimed to be pure ammonia. I shook the bottle and there were bubbles. Next I went to Safeway where I found a product which claimed to be pure ammonia and listed only water and Ammonium Hydroxide on the ingredients. I shook it and there were bubbles. I tried about 20 other stores in the area, found nothing and finally purchased the Safeway product thinking maybe the "no bubbles" thing was a myth. When I got home I found a video  showing the diffenrce in bubbles between pure ammonia and ammonia with surfactants. While my ammonia from Safeway didn't bubble as much as his did, it definitely had surfactants.

I ended up driving to the US (I live near the border) and getting my Ammonia from Ace hardware. I shook the bottle and instantly saw the difference. When they say no bubbles they mean it. There was not a single bubble on the surface of the liquid within two seconds of stopping shaking.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Can you like buy a few small feeder fish and then just cycle the tank that way?
By the way since I started using stability my readings have been very good. I get zero ammonia and nitrite with .25 nitrate all the time whenever I check my water. I use equilibrium for the GH and Alkaline buffer for the KH (both from seachem). I also have an extra sponge filter in the tank and I believe that has really worked well with stability as far as biological filtration goes.


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## Tiwaz (May 5, 2011)

Fish rookie said:


> Can you like buy a few small feeder fish and then just cycle the tank that way?


Not exactly a fishless cycle then is it? For what its worth I did a fishless cycle with ammonia from the Superstore.


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Fish rookie said:


> Can you like buy a few small feeder fish and then just cycle the tank that way?
> By the way since I started using stability my readings have been very good. I get zero ammonia and nitrite with .25 nitrate all the time whenever I check my water. I use equilibrium for the GH and Alkaline buffer for the KH (both from seachem). I also have an extra sponge filter in the tank and I believe that has really worked well with stability as far as biological filtration goes.


You could...but feeder fish are typically not the healthiest fish, they may be likely carriers of viruses and other pathogens that you're introducing to your new setup. And once you're done cycling with the fish, what do you do with them? I don't like subjecting living creatures to ammonia burns and nitrite poisoning through the cycling process. Fishless cycling would also allow you to fully stock the tank right away - a few feeder fish probably may not create enough of a bioload without the tank having to go through a mini-cycle anyways.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

prawn, half a pack of frozen bloodworm, pee, any of those will work.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

hp10BII said:


> You could...but feeder fish are typically not the healthiest fish, they may be likely carriers of viruses and other pathogens that you're introducing to your new setup. And once you're done cycling with the fish, what do you do with them? I don't like subjecting living creatures to ammonia burns and nitrite poisoning through the cycling process. Fishless cycling would also allow you to fully stock the tank right away - a few feeder fish probably may not create enough of a bioload without the tank having to go through a mini-cycle anyways.


Thanks for the reply. I am new to this so please correct me if I am wrong.
I was thinking of buying some little minnows (saw some for like .30 each) when I said feeder fish. I thought the food and waste would create ammonia and with regular water change, a filter running, and stability added on a regular basis the fish may not get ammonia burn or nitrite poisoned. Is that right?
The new stock can just eat the minnow after the tank is cycled, can they?


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

If you're using Stability, there's no need for minnows/feeders, Stability should instantly cycle your based on the existing fish load. Sure they'll create an ammonia source, but unless you're just keeping minnows or a similar bioload afterwards, they won't create enough of a bioload to sustain a regular population of fish. You'll have to continue using Stability again or water changes to adjust to the new bioload. Just use Stability when you get your fish and you're good to go. I personally would not risk using feeders or cheap fish prior to stocking my tank - they just might have a viral bug that can wipe out $$$ worth of fish.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thank you for the reply. Sorry that it has gone off topic kind of. 
So...this is probably a dumb question...if stability can cycle the tank rigth away why try to buy ammonia and do a fishless cycle which takes longer?


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Fish rookie said:


> Thank you for the reply. Sorry that it has gone off topic kind of.
> So...this is probably a dumb question...if stability can cycle the tank rigth away why try to buy ammonia and do a fishless cycle which takes longer?


Stability is relatively new, ammonia's been around for awhile, I think about 10 years or so. Depending on the size of your tank, Stability costs $$$, a $3 2 litre sized bottle of ammonia will last you years and many tanks. If time is a factor, use Stability...it worked for me in an emergency.


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## rodforman (Mar 18, 2012)

I am actually using both. I am adding stability to seed the filter with bacteria and ammonia to feed the bacteria. Once the bacteria colony can deal with an adequate amount of ammonia, I will switch from ammonia to fish pee.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Fish rookie said:


> Thanks for the reply. I am new to this so please correct me if I am wrong.
> I was thinking of buying some little minnows (saw some for like .30 each) when I said feeder fish. I thought the food and waste would create ammonia and with regular water change, a filter running, and stability added on a regular basis the fish may not get ammonia burn or nitrite poisoned. Is that right?
> The new stock can just eat the minnow after the tank is cycled, can they?


I always start tanks off with 10 or more minows or white cluods depending on tank size. Bigger than 50g I would put 25. I have used feeders lots of times and never had a problem. Now, I add either cycle or stability and I prefer white clouds. Which ever ones live get to stay in the tank since they are neat fish anyways. If you can grab some filter sponges or bio media from a friends tank it would help jump start the cycling process. Dont add anymore fish for a 3 to 4 weeks. Let the stank stabalize. Than you will be ready to put whatever you want in. Just dont add a whole bunch of fish at once. Starting the tank of properly will help stop and issues that alot of people get when setting up a new to fish tank. Good luck. Lots of good advice on here


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