# I thought Keyhole Cichlids are peaceful??



## jhj0112

Hi, 

now that shrimp tank is settling, my attention is back to my show (90G) tank.

I'm looking for the tank mates for my Bolivian ram (6) as I love these dwarf Cichlids. Other than Neon dwarf rainbow( which I will exchange with my 11 harlequin rasboras), I want to get some other peaceful cichlids (like keyhole, cupid)

I currently have 19 neon tetras, 8 guppies, 10 yellow phantom tetras, 10 panda cories, 11 rasboras(which will be replaced with 6 rainbows), and 6 Bolivian rams.

I went to one of LFSs and the guy told me that keyhole or cupid will kill pretty much every fish in my tank when light is off.

Is this true?? My research says they are very peaceful.. has anyone have experience with putting them together?
I really want another kind of cichlid in my tank....

will my tank be overstocked if i add these guys after rainbow fishes?

thanks!


----------



## charles

In my opinion, keyhole cichlid can get aggressive toward smaller tetra. If choosing between keyhole or cupido, cupido behaves more like rams and that would be a better choice.


----------



## Livyding

That's not accurate. I have had my Keyhole cichlid for over a year now along with a group of angels, a Bolivian Ram, a Cupid cichlid and a group of tetras. The Keyhole is by far the shyest and most peaceful of them all. 

That's not to say that they aren't capable of aggression... If you had a pair and they were brooding I'm sure they would defend their brood like any other cichlid! But from what I have read they are also known to be one of the very few who can be bred in a community tank setting and are very unlikely to actually kill anyone.


----------



## Livyding

charles said:


> In my opinion, keyhole cichlid can get aggressive toward smaller tetra. If choosing between keyhole or cupido, cupido behaves more like rams and that would be a better choice.


I don't agree Charles. You're right about the Cupids being a lot like rams... I've found the Cupid to be very much like my Bolivian in behavior with a lot of "bark" and no bite.. (Will chase the angels away from the bottom, headbutt them out of the way during feeding, sort of swim around like they own the place)

But no way is the Keyhole more aggressive than them. The one I have anyway is no bark and no bite either IME. Very retiring, will hide instead of getting into a confrontation.

Very, very peaceful. Instead of aggressive behavior I've seen that when he feels threatened, he darkens his colours and makes his eye-spot very vivid and displays that to frighten away whoever is scaring him.

I love my Keyhole... My favourite of all my fish, by far.


----------



## charles

perhaps the reason why the keyhole is shy because it is by itself. If there is a group or like you said, a bond pair, things can get more interesting compare to cupido.

Keep in mind, I have also seen bigger fully mature keyhole than a fully mature cupido.


----------



## jhj0112

thanks charles and livyding for the input . 

my situation may be slightly different than livyding's as I have 6 bolivians while livyding has one each.. 

if i add 2-4 cupido or keyhole, will it work for my tank? it's 48"(w) x15"(d) x 28"(h)....

btw my bolivians are juvis.. 1-1.5"


----------



## charles

I can only tell you what my customers did and experience as I don't normally house more than 2 types of fish in a holding tank...

Cupido are normally fine with other rams in a tank like your size.

Keyhole cichlids were kept with bigger tetra like bleeding heart and black skirt without any problem. Though the smaller tetra like cardinals and gold tetra did disappear when he went for a vacation for 7 days. They were the biggest in the 75g so my customer was assuming they are the one who took those smaller tetra out.


----------



## jhj0112

thank you so much for information charles! I'm leaning toward cupido now  but it won't be a couple of weeks as i'm adding rainbows this week


----------



## Livyding

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. Cupids are big fish when they're full-grown. Length-wise mine isn't that much longer than the Bolivian (also full-grown) but the height and girth make him easily 3 or 4 times the size of her. Also, I found this:

_Biotodoma species are loosely gregarious and tends to live in groups unless spawning with juveniles in particular displaying a strong social response when threatened.

A group of 5-8 individuals should therefore be the minimum purchase and these will form a noticeable dominance hierarchy which adds behavioural interest for the observer.

When maintained in smaller numbers weaker specimens can become the target of excessive abuse by dominant individuals or the group may fail to settle and behave nervously._ Biotodoma cupido - Cupid Cichlid (Geophagus cupido) - Seriously Fish

IMO there's just no way you can get away with five adult Cupids along with all your other stock. Ultimately it's up to you of course.

@Charles I just really have a hard time imagining a Keyhole hunting tetras... It's true that I've never seen brooding since I do have only the one, but the shape of the mouth, plus the way he never seems to swim above the bottom third of the tank, and I've never seen him so much as acknowledge that the tetras exist... (Mine are lemons, so a little larger than cardinals to be fair)

I just don't know if one person's account that some tetras disappeared during a week when no one was around, and since the Keyholes were the largest fish in the tank they *must* have killed and eaten them is really enough evidence to say that Keyholes are tetra-killers...


----------



## jhj0112

5 adult cupido definitely won't work with my tank lol.. hmm.. what do you think livyding? don't get me wrong. I also like keyholes  
I , however, heard keyholes eating neons from another person.. I really like both of them.. 

Man! I thought 90G is A HUGE tank when I first got it... now I wish I got 120-240G tank!!! haha lol


----------



## Livyding

I tend to do things my own way and ignore the conventional way of doing things (eg keeping single specimens instead of breeding pairs or groups)

A lot of people say that it's not fun to keep singletons, or that cichlids get lonely if they don't have their own kind around, and honestly I just couldn't understand how violence and carnage would be "fun" to watch, but I understand a bit more now that I've seen my angels spawn and after I trade my cupid for some equipment this week I likely will add another Keyhole and Bolivian... This is getting off topic though.

If I were you I would try to stick with fish from one part of the world. Most of what you have are South American in origin so instead of adding Rainbowfish, (Australia I think) you might get some other species of tetra, hatchetfish, angels or what have you... 
(Adult angels *will* eat small neons though)

I really would be interested in seeing some kind of footage of Keyholes hunting neons though, since I find it so hard to believe... I just don't believe it at all to be frank. On top of what I said before, I find SeriouslyFish to be extremely reliable, and it says they won't eat anything bigger than a few millimeters...

(see behaviour and compatibility Cleithracara maronii - Keyhole Cichlid (Acara maronii, Aequidens maronii ) - Seriously Fish )

but I suppose it is possible... Still I won't believe it unless I see some sort of proof.

This is turning into a novel... So bottom line, I'd nix the Rainbows and get a couple keyholes. Or some other kind of SA dwarf. Wild Rams maybe?


----------



## charles

my customer's keyhole are 5" in length.


----------



## Livyding

charles said:


> my customer's keyhole are 5" in length.


I believe you Charles.. I just don't believe that they would hunt tetras though. My Cupid is five inches long too, and very tall and wide bodied, and I can't imagine him hunting tetras either. Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## jhj0112

@livyding, I highly recommend getting more Bolivian Rams. all of 6 BR are getting along so far and it's really entertaining to watch.

I would like to get neon rainbows as. These rams are hanging on middle-bottom range of my tank. neons, guppies are hanging upper part but. i still feel like something is missing in middle-upper part of my tank. these neon rainbows will mostly hang out on those vacant area and they are big enough to be noticed from far.. and they are beautiful IMO 

I have looked at other dwart SA cichlids but nothing intrigues me... like you said on another thread, GBR can be difficult to keep. 
I heard, however, GBR(wild) from charles are really good...

hmm.. this is fun but at the same time, I CAN'T make up my mind lol



Livyding said:


> I tend to do things my own way and ignore the conventional way of doing things (eg keeping single specimens instead of breeding pairs or groups)
> 
> A lot of people say that it's not fun to keep singletons, or that cichlids get lonely if they don't have their own kind around, and honestly I just couldn't understand how violence and carnage would be "fun" to watch, but I understand a bit more now that I've seen my angels spawn and after I trade my cupid for some equipment this week I likely will add another Keyhole and Bolivian... This is getting off topic though.
> 
> If I were you I would try to stick with fish from one part of the world. Most of what you have are South American in origin so instead of adding Rainbowfish, (Australia I think) you might get some other species of tetra, hatchetfish, angels or what have you...
> (Adult angels *will* eat small neons though)
> 
> I really would be interested in seeing some kind of footage of Keyholes hunting neons though, since I find it so hard to believe... I just don't believe it at all to be frank. On top of what I said before, I find SeriouslyFish to be extremely reliable, and it says they won't eat anything bigger than a few millimeters...
> 
> (see behaviour and compatibility Cleithracara maronii - Keyhole Cichlid (Acara maronii, Aequidens maronii ) - Seriously Fish )
> 
> but I suppose it is possible... Still I won't believe it unless I see some sort of proof.
> 
> This is turning into a novel... So bottom line, I'd nix the Rainbows and get a couple keyholes. Or some other kind of SA dwarf. Wild Rams maybe?


----------



## charles

If a 3" angel will be able to eat neon, a 5" keyhole or i suppose a 5" cupido will be able to as well. But anyway, just sharing my and my ustomer's experience.


----------



## Livyding

Oh, for the top of the tank hatchetfish!! They are really something to watch... I have a group (from Charles) in one of my other tanks. They are awesome. Check this out --> 




Charles I think it might have to do with the style of eating... You know how angels have those forward mouths whereas the keyhole and the earth eaters have downward facing mouths for picking things off the ground?

That's completely a guess though since I've never seen my angels eat any small fish either, but my biggest one is a heck of a lot bigger than 3 inches if you include fins in the measurement.. Bigger than my hand for sure, and I've seen even bigger ones for sale before. I can imagine a small neon getting eaten definitely.

Anyway, just my opinion I could be wrong. You've been at this a lot longer than I have for sure.


----------



## charles

No worry. I like to learn from you as well. Angels, are known to snack or kill tetra like neon, even the turn-down-mouth of the dwarf leopoldi angel was reported to be aggressive occassionally. The 3" angel was a juv., and it was just an example of a smaller mouth like that can easily take in a reguler size neon.

I dont personally have any experience with a pack of keyhole. I only can tell and share what my customer has updated and share with me.


----------



## onefishtwofish

why dont you go apistogrammas.they r beautiful and go in a south american biotype


----------



## Steve

Not sure if this helps but 

"The keyhole cichlid is a rather friendly cichlid that is suitable to be kept with a wide variety of different friendly species. This combined with the fact that the keyhole cichlid is a relatively small fish and the fact that they usually leave plants alone makes it ideal for community aquariums. Keyhole cichlids can usually be kept with tetras and other small fish but some specimens can be too aggressive to be kept with tetras. The keyhole cichlid has been popular in the aquarium hobby for a very long time and was earlier know as Aequidens maronii.

They are easy to breed and care for. Most keyhole cichlids found in the trade today has been breed in captivity for the aquarium trade" - Aquatic Community

"The Keyhole Cichlid is a favorite among cichlid enthusiasts. With a light green body and black fins, this specimen offers glimpses of contrast as it swims amongst the rocks or plants. In addition, these fish are generally hardy. Originally from South America, Keyhole Cichlids retain a more peaceful demeanor than many of their Cichlidae counterparts. Most seldom burrow into the substrate or damage plants and prefer to hide amongst the rocks or plant roots instead of fight if challenged by other aquarium inhabitants.The Keyhole Cichlid is a favorite among cichlid enthusiasts. With a light green body and black fins, this specimen offers glimpses of contrast as it swims amongst the rocks or plants. In addition, these fish are generally hardy. Originally from South America, Keyhole Cichlids retain a more peaceful demeanor than many of their Cichlidae counterparts. Most seldom burrow into the substrate or damage plants and prefer to hide amongst the rocks or plant roots instead of fight if challenged by other aquarium inhabitants." - LiveAquaria

I've never personally kept either Keyhole or Cupido but I have seen a few tanks with them and both have been fairly peaceful. One thing to note about your idea of rainbowfish though is that your south american cichids MAY become aggressive towards them because they are from a different waterway. Honestly though, I think you should just read over everyones opinions and then decide what you want to do. Fish keeping is a learning experience and what doesn't work for some people works for others. I kept african cichlids with south american cichlids and rainbowfish and never actually had any problems even when they (the africans) were breeding!


----------



## jhj0112

@onefishtwofish, I looked into it but it's hard to get those and I heard that it's more expensive than cupido or keyhole..  

@steve, as always, thank you for the great info! you are absolutely right! that's why I love this site for getting tons of good info.
my older 7 yrs old girl falls in love with rainbows and doesn't like harliquin rasboras. very nice looking fish under the light. 
Are your rainbows coming middle-bottom part your tank often? I can see SA dwarf cichilds get aggressive toward them if they coming down.


----------



## Steve

My rainbows spent a lot of time in the lower section of the tank when food was down there, otherwise usually in the middle


----------

