# Bangaii Missing!? - Switching to Salt on my 46gal Bowfront!!!



## JTang

So after changing my 90gal community to discus recently, Im thinking about switching to salty on my 46gal bow front. Those crayfish are just way too boring cos they hide 90% of the time! I just cant stand looking at those little white cloud minnows taking up a 46gal tank!

Im planning to start from basic - fish only (maybe some low light soft coral?). Im gonna replace the gravels with 40 lbs of live sand. I will add 20 lbs of live rock on top of the lace rock. Btw have u guys ever used lace rock in a marine setup?

I would like to get a sump but i dont want to drill the tank n those hang on the back overflow is $150 (for a few pieces of acrylic!). I might just stick with a canister filter if possible. Maybe a larger one? New, different media? I read that the ceramic bio rings r not good for a salty setup!?

What other equipment will i need? Protein skimmer... Whats a nice, cheap one? UV sterlizer? Hmmm... Anything else? Oh some salt of cos! Lol

I will get another power head to increase the water circulation.

Since Im a newbie to marine Im gonna need as much suggestion as possible from u experts! Thx so much!

Current setup:
46 bow front (not drilled)
XP2 canister
200w sub. heater
Stock F30T8 36'' (natural daylight)
Lace rock (20 lbs?)


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## JTang

Click on link below to see pics of the current setup...


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## STANKYfish

You will love the salt tank. I am not sure of the holey rock, but the live rock acts as a filter. I know a bit about reef tanks, but not enough to give advice. My fella knows all of the working aspects. I just pick out and enjoy all the beautiful corals. He has drilled holes in a lot of tanks. Try canreef forum, its full of info about salt water.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

PM sent.


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## big_bubba_B

my nephiew has a 46g bowfront he did into salt he has a good light poer heads and a canister filter everything is running good and has corals .


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## JTang

big_bubba_B said:


> my nephiew has a 46g bowfront he did into salt he has a good light poer heads and a canister filter everything is running good and has corals .


Great! Nice to know that it works w such a simple setup! What other equip. does he use? No protein skimmer?


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## big_bubba_B

he is getting a hang on skimmer but right now doesent have one. he has live rock in his canister


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## JTang

oh ok! I shld do the same. What kind of canister is he using?


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## big_bubba_B

xp 3 is what he is using for a canister and using the power head end for it , and a t5 ho


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## effox

I didn't bother with a canister filter, I just loaded my 29g with about 20lbs of live rock and its doing fine. I also use cheato though.

Zero phosphates and everything else is fine.


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## JTang

effox said:


> I didn't bother with a canister filter, I just loaded my 29g with about 20lbs of live rock and its doing fine. I also use cheato though.
> 
> Zero phosphates and everything else is fine.


Really!? Only live rocks n power heads?

I went to IPU Burnaby the other day n saw that they use HOB's on their tanks. No sump. No skimmer nor anything special equip!


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## big_bubba_B

if u wants corals is good to have a skimmer


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## Algae Beater

Do a Berlin style setup

-Good skimming (hang on skimmer)
-Good water circulation
-Thin Sand bed
-1-2 lbs of live rock per gallon (depending on rock density)

Canister filters are useless in live rock systems with skimmers. They compete with the live rock flora / fauna for nourishment, trap detritus where scavengers can't get to it and therefore turn into a nitrate factory unless you're cleaning the cannister every day or two.


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## effox

I've got a really crappy skimmer (biocube skimmer) on, which doesn't do anything. I actually based my set up off of IPU's.


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## big_bubba_B

Top Hang In-Tank/On-Tank Protein Skimmer Picks for Saltwater Aquariums - Hang In-Tank/On-Tank Protein Skimmer Picks for Saltwater Aquariums here is a rating for top ten skimmers


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## JTang

wow the sticky is awesome! How could i miss it!? It answers most of my questions! 

Has anyone use lace rock as base rock in a marine setup? Say 20 lbs of lace rock plus 20 lbs of LR.

Where is a good place to buy salt n live rock crumbles (to be used in the canister).


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## JTang

Alright! So the tank has finally evolved to salty...

Here's the setup: 
40 lbs of LS (Fuji Pink)
20 lbs of Live Rock
20 lbs of Base Rock
Koralia 3
XP3 w. LR rubbles, Seachem matrix, Coral rocks.
200W heater
T5 HO 39W x2 (Power + Life Glo)

Tank has been running for 3 days. Went to JL n picked up 2 little hermit crabs for the kids yesterday. At least now there r somethin that move in the tank. LOL

How long shld i wait until i introduce the first fish? I want to start w couple of Chromis (wish i can get a school of them but i have to reserve room for the others)... Also hope to get couple of peppermint shrimps to prevent aptasia from spreading although i havent seen any yet, but the tank where the live rocks came from have these buggers on the other rocks.


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## reeferious

*cheap liverock*

why bother with lacerocks when you can go to canreef site and find someone who's selling well established liverocks for 2-3 dol/pound. save yourself lots of curing time versus buying lace rock and life diversity on those liverocks is not something you could find on dead lace rock either. take it very very easy on stocking fish in your tank and you'll have no regrets.


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## spit.fire

as far as lighting it doesnt really matter what you put in as long as it is a fish only tank, t8's or no t5s are sufficient, as far as filtering i would suggest using phosphate removers in your filter or get a phosphate reactor (not worth it in a basic tank setup imo), for a skimmer i would suggest the remora, they work amazingly well and dont need an air pump to use it.

for aiptasia peppermint shrimp are hit or miss, mine dont touch it but lemon juice from a syringe works well on them

for when to put fishies into the tank it usually takes 2 weeks for it to cycle. 
damsels are good fish to start wiht because they're hard to kill (trust me ive been trying for awhile) but they are almost impossible to catch to take them out of the tank
Remora Hang-On


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## JTang

reeferious said:


> why bother with lacerocks when you can go to canreef site and find someone who's selling well established liverocks for 2-3 dol/pound. save yourself lots of curing time versus buying lace rock and life diversity on those liverocks is not something you could find on dead lace rock either. take it very very easy on stocking fish in your tank and you'll have no regrets.


I'd passed on my initial plan of using lace rock. I thought about using them since i already have lot of them. Anyway, its now set up w live n base rocks only 20 lbs ea. I will post a picture when i get a chance...


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## gklaw

I put a Coral beauty in within the 1st week of my SW setup. She lasted for over 10 years until I almost knock our my entire system playing with the water parameter.


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## Rastapus

I am very curious about this live rock in a canister filter? Canister filters by design are low in oxygen which is a big factor why they are not recommended for saltwater in general. with no light and low oxygen why bother? Having the live rock in the aquarium will server the same purpose but perform properly. IF you wanted to create a biological filter, what would be the difference of using one set up properly and using it full of rock? There is no difference.

The aquarium set up at both IPU stores illustrates how easy it can be to set up a fish only marine aquarium with a ML bio wheel. I would not attempt the same set up with any other HOB or canister, it would not perform properly. The aquarium in question has resin rock replicas as decor, not live rock. Remember, medicating an aquarium with live rock is a no no, this has to be considered when using live rock.


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## JTang

gklaw said:


> I put a Coral beauty in within the 1st week of my SW setup. She lasted for over 10 years until I almost knock our my entire system playing with the water parameter.


Hey Gordon, whats that 'Coral beauty' that u had? 
Btw, what protein skimmer (HOB) do u recommend for my set up? Im planning on investing one in the near future. Not now... cos Im already broke! LOL


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## monkE

Thanks for keeping this thread going everyone! very interesting reading. I would like to get into marine but i am very intimidated by the cost of each individual fish becasue i have never done marine before. Please post pics when you get a chance. I too have a 46 bowfront tank that i have started an African Cichlid population but i think a third tank might be in the works soon and would love to do marine!


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## JTang

I would love to share some pics of my setup w u guys but for some reason I cant upload any pics onto photobucket!?


Just to keep everyone posted...

I have added 2 green chromis to the tank 2 days ago to make the tank more interesting to look at.
Also invested on a Coralife Super Skimmer 125 and a R/O filter. I wasnt planning on getting them so soon but it was such a great deal that I couldnt resist! LOL (Have I mentioned that Im already broke?) 
Both units are now up n running! 
Im considering pulling the XP3 out, or shld I just empty it out n use it as a powerhead (w. Xtra water volumn)?


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## fkshiu

Rastapus said:


> I am very curious about this live rock in a canister filter? Canister filters by design are low in oxygen which is a big factor why they are not recommended for saltwater in general. with no light and low oxygen why bother? Having the live rock in the aquarium will server the same purpose but perform properly. IF you wanted to create a biological filter, what would be the difference of using one set up properly and using it full of rock? There is no difference.
> 
> The aquarium set up at both IPU stores illustrates how easy it can be to set up a fish only marine aquarium with a ML bio wheel. I would not attempt the same set up with any other HOB or canister, it would not perform properly. The aquarium in question has resin rock replicas as decor, not live rock. Remember, medicating an aquarium with live rock is a no no, this has to be considered when using live rock.


Grant,

Most people just want a place to stick extra live rock without cluttering up the display tank. However, there may be a little known theoretical benefit of running a canister with nothing but live rock: the creation of a benthic zone. Such zones occur naturally in certain areas of a coral reef, usually within live rock cavities and are characterized by no light, very low flow and therefore relatively low oxygen levels. Depending on the rockwork and flow patterns in your aquarium, you might have a few little benthic zones develop in various caves or isolated overhangs. Certain types of sponges and other filter feeders tend to thrive in such a mini-ecosystem which can't survive in a standard reef tank environment. The understanding is that this biodiversity is beneficial to the system as a whole.

Anthony Borneman played around with benthic zones and their role in keeping a successful coral reef about a decade or so ago. Then along came refugiums, ultra-low nutrient systems etc and benthic zones have largely since be forgotten. There's still a few of these benthic zone articles floating about if anyone's interested.

Anyhoo, I kept a an XP2 running on my reef back then with nothing by live rock rubble inside and didn't open it for almost a year. When I finally did crack it open the inside of the filter was teaming with various pods and different sponge formations. It was pretty cool although I don't know whether it had any real benefit to the aquarium.


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## JTang

Great info! I will leave the live rocks n matrix in there then.
Thx!


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## JTang

I've read that when setting up a new marine tank, one shld perform a major wc (40-50%, some even do 90%!) after the initial cycle is completed - when brown algae gone n green algae appears. Is that neccessary? Can anyone pls verify on that?
I can now spot some brown algae at the 2 ends of the tank, where circulation is minimal...


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## Rastapus

That would depend on the final NO3 reading. The higher the reading the larger water change is performed.


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## Rastapus

fkshiu said:


> Grant,
> 
> Most people just want a place to stick extra live rock without cluttering up the display tank. However, there may be a little known theoretical benefit of running a canister with nothing but live rock: the creation of a benthic zone. Such zones occur naturally in certain areas of a coral reef, usually within live rock cavities and are characterized by no light, very low flow and therefore relatively low oxygen levels. Depending on the rockwork and flow patterns in your aquarium, you might have a few little benthic zones develop in various caves or isolated overhangs. Certain types of sponges and other filter feeders tend to thrive in such a mini-ecosystem which can't survive in a standard reef tank environment. The understanding is that this biodiversity is beneficial to the system as a whole.
> 
> Anthony Borneman played around with benthic zones and their role in keeping a successful coral reef about a decade or so ago. Then along came refugiums, ultra-low nutrient systems etc and benthic zones have largely since be forgotten. There's still a few of these benthic zone articles floating about if anyone's interested.
> 
> Anyhoo, I kept a an XP2 running on my reef back then with nothing by live rock rubble inside and didn't open it for almost a year. When I finally did crack it open the inside of the filter was teaming with various pods and different sponge formations. It was pretty cool although I don't know whether it had any real benefit to the aquarium.


Yes I am familiar with the benthic zone in nature, however if you are creating an environment where these creatures that inhabit that zone will establish themselves, they will be feeding on organic material that would be removed by water changes if this system was not in place. By encouraging invertebrates to consume these nutrients, other bi-products are produced which also need to be removed by water change. Unless someone is interested in observing this type of activity, sponges etc in the canister will likely die and grow depending on the nutrient load which is not a constant generally. Although I see it as an interesting place to observe this sort of life, I don't see it as an integral part of a system particularly for a beginner. IMO.


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## JTang

Finally figured out why it wouldn't let me uploading the pictures - the firewall!

So here they are...

Coral pieces that I "hand picked" at Waikiki Beach back in Jan. Most are sitting inside the XP3 except for several unique looking pieces :lol:









Initial Setup: 20 lbs of live rock + 20 lbs of base rock + 40 lbs of live sand (Fuji Pink). 


















Very first resident of the tank - My girl's hermit crab.









Replaced background with a very expensive one - "black, super strong garbage bag" LOL









R/O Filter 









Coralife 125 Protein Skimmer - Doesn't work too well n requires daily tuning. Oh well, not bad for $30 I guess...









Some freebies that come with the live rocks.

















Replaced 6500k with Actinic. Now running 10,000k + Actinic. Thinking of adding more in the near future.


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## JTang

Previous Equipments used in Crayfish Setup:
46 Bowfront (not drilled)
XP2 canister (floss, ceramic rings)
200w sub. heater
Stock 36" T8 30W (natural daylight)
Lace rock (20 lbs?) 









Current Equipments after the switchover:
46 Bowfront (not drilled)
XP3 canister (live rock rubbles, Seachem pond matrix)
200w sub. heater
36" T5 HO 39W x2 (10,000k + Actinic)
LED moonlight
Power heads x2 (Koralia 3 + Koralia Nano)
Coralife 125 Protein Skimmer
Vertex R/O Filter
26 lbs Liverocks + 20 lbs baserocks + 20 lbs live sand (Fuji Pink)


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## JTang

Current livestock - 2 Chromis, 1 Bangaii, 1 Yellow Goby, 2 Peppermint shrimps, 4 hermit crabs, 6 snails













































This "supposed to be" FOWLR tank is no longer "FO"... Thanks to my buddy, Teddy! Hopefully I can keep these little guys alive! LOL




































Most current rock formation with 6 pieces of liverocks added.
Left Stack








Right Stack








Front View


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## aznfire888

Nice setup! Nice jersey also!


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## JTang

aznfire888 said:


> Nice setup! Nice jersey also!


That's about 20 yrs old! Lol


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## frd72

Looking good John!!! So nice that the softies were doing good!! If I were you before you get really addicted to salty prepare your 90g this way u don't have to worry about transferring!!! LOL



JTang said:


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## JTang

Hmmm.... Im already thinking about it! But have to save up some money 1st! Lol


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## JTang

Came home n couldnt spot my Bangaii! 
Are they known jumpers?


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