# Problems with a couple of plants - help ID my deficiency



## Bunny

Hi everyone, about a week ago I posted about my java fern having issues with leaves dying, now I've realized that my other plants are also showing problems.

The java fern starts out by getting a distinct lattice pattern on its leaves (I think these are the veins showing up), then the leaf around that turns translucent and gets eaten/melts. Eventually its just the main leaf stem thats left - then the whole leaf is gone. This is affecting both old and new additions of java fern to my tank, and also both varieties - normal and windelov.









The small piece of anibuas has both old and newer (not baby leaves - dont think any have grown in the time its been in my tank, just newish) leaves turning yellowish, then the tips start becoming translucent and then the translucent part is just gone. 









The sunset hygro has its older leaf-tips just disappearing sometimes and in general develops holes in its lower/older leaves.









The staurogene repens is developing random small holes in its leaves.

















The vals have been struggling for a while, but have been doing better recently, loosing less of their leaves to melt (the ones they ARE loosing could be due to replanting them slightly too deeply). 
Wondering if this could be a sign of a deffiency though - it's leaf edges are slightly yellow and it looks a little *too* bent over/twisted.









Also my filter is growing brown algae very well. Its flourishing fantastically - so much so that it blocks the filter-pad completely in a week if I do not clean it.

33 gallon tank with low light and no CO2. Light is a 24" 17W T8 fluorescent bulb.
Stock in the tank: two mystery snails, 4 cherry shrimp (moved from my colony), a small bnp, a 5" common pleco, a 5" goldfish, 11 minnows and 6 corydoras elegans.

All the java fern and the anubias is tied to driftwood, not in the substrate.

I have been dosing Flourish Comp for about a month now (was dosing 1-2 ml twice a week, now 2-3 ml twice a week) to try to fix this and had no luck, does not seem to be any better. The only noticeable difference that I can see is that the val is doing much better now - less melting leaves, not as deformed, tips not breaking off.

In the thread I posted about just the java fern having issues, the conclusion was that I was seriously lacking nitrates and thats when I upped the dosing of flourish... Not too sure if I'm lacking something else as well and if I need to dose something other than just flourish?

*edit: pics are up.


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## Algae Beater

Java ferns do this without sufficient nitrogen, typically turning black and wasting away. 

Translucent leaves is also an indicator of this. Though what are you water parameters? Hardness, pH and such ?


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## Bunny

Ahh... I havent done a complete test recently, but ammonia 0, nitrite 0, and nitrates are actually a lot higher than I expected at about 40. So it is not a nitrate problem.

Last time I tested, the Gh and KH were quite low although I cannot remember the exact values. Lower than they have been in the past though - but that was when I was adding cuttle bone scrapings frequently to increase them.
PH doesnt change much and if I remember right hovers around 7.2-7.4, although I could be mis-remembering. 

(I'll update this post to exact values when I test. need to do a water change tomorrow night and I'll test before I do it.)


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## jimmyjam

its a macro nutrient issue, so check your phosphate and k, Im gonna say k. You know its a macro, because its all old leaves, and macros are transported throughout the plant, so it hits the old leafs first. Add some k and check out the new growth.


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## Bunny

Thank you.
This might be a silly question though - but how do I go about checking the phosphate and K? Is there a test kit to test them? Or is there a cheaper method to test them? Additionally, what is an inexpensive way to add phosphate and K?


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## Reckon

K is pretty tough to measure. I say just buy some Equilibrium, it will boost K as well as GH. Not likely to be macros if she's been dosing Flourish Comp. 
Also, how old are these plants? How long have they been melting for? Did they start melting when you added them? How long is your lighting on for?


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## Bunny

The lights are manual (not on a timer) and typically on for about 12 hours a day - when I remember to turn them on in the morning until I go to bed.

I do not remember them starting to melt right away, I'd say it was at least a week or two after I added them that I noticed any sort of melt or other what-not and this has been going on for about a month-month and a half.

Additionally, although I do not remember what happened with the other plants, the java ferns did not appear to have this sort of problem before I rescaped - I started noticing problems after I switched from gravel to sand and rescaped - this involved adding a lot more plants as well as a bunch of driftwood (ocean gathered originally, but dried and sitting outdoors in all weather for about 5 years - also soaked in my bathtub for about 2 weeks before added to tank).


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## Reckon

Hm, morning to bed is usually more than 12 hours. I used to do that as well and my java ferns looked terrible (Pic on the 1st page of my journal). Perhaps you do have the lights on for too long. But then if you've only had the plants for 4-6 weeks, then not giving them enough light (via 1 T8) can also constitute for the degradation of their leaves over time. 

Sand usually isn't a problem unless you have buried Java fern's rhizomes, you will kill them if you did that. However, it doesn't account for other plants doing poorly as well. 

If you're now dosing Flourish Comp, I guess what is remaining is one or more of the following possible issues:

Too long of a light period - use a timer (light on for no more than 12 hours, probably should stick to 10 hours only)
Not enough lighting - add an extra lamp
Not enough GH - add Equilibrium

Timer's $5 at home hardware. Clip on light with cool white CFL bulb is $15-$20. Equilibrium is $10.

I say trim the dying leaves, they'll only foul up the water and make way for an algae bloom. Then make one adjustment per week and see if there are new shoots. Java ferns, vals, and hygros should respond pretty quickly. Staurogyne repens doesn't usually do well without CO2 so it's possible that plant won't recover.


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## Bunny

See, things are currently growing happily and putting out new shoots all the time. Some of my java fern is new, and some I have had for months. This problem only started about a month ago after the rescape as far as I can tell, although some things were a little unhappy before as well. The java fern seemed to do fine in the low light before - at least it never had this problem. The val is also old and it is actually doing better now that it used to (I didnt used to does any sort of ferts).

The sunset hygro keeps reaching the top of my tank and needing to be trimmed and replanted. Unfortunately, the older leaves all look like poop 

Staurogene repens is one of the least affected plants right now, its been floating in my tank for at least a month before I got around to planting it, so thats at least 2 months it has been in my tank. It is only now starting to show small holes in its leaves.

Could CO2 be the cause of all of this perhaps? The biggest change I made is that there are now simply MORE plants in the tank than before. I have the supplies to set up a small DIY CO2 system if need be.


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## lonewulff

Bunny said:


> Could CO2 be the cause of all of this perhaps? The biggest change I made is that there are now simply MORE plants in the tank than before. I have the supplies to set up a small DIY CO2 system if need be.


Hi Bunny, I have been on the planted aquarium learning curve for a short while and have issues similar to yours. Yesterday, I changed 40% H2O and dosed with Excel, per the makers label post start-up or post >40% change. I am targeting the hairy black algae. I am also, again per the label, increasing my Excel use to daily, instead of every 2 days. Excel is a carbon additive, that, I believe, has a life <12 hours. I'm a newbie, so my expectations are nil. I have never tried this before. However, here's hoping!!!

I'll post results.

B.


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## Reckon

Bunny said:


> See, things are currently growing happily and putting out new shoots all the time. Some of my java fern is new, and some I have had for months. This problem only started about a month ago after the rescape as far as I can tell, although some things were a little unhappy before as well. The java fern seemed to do fine in the low light before - at least it never had this problem. The val is also old and it is actually doing better now that it used to (I didnt used to does any sort of ferts).
> 
> The sunset hygro keeps reaching the top of my tank and needing to be trimmed and replanted. Unfortunately, the older leaves all look like poop
> 
> Staurogene repens is one of the least affected plants right now, its been floating in my tank for at least a month before I got around to planting it, so thats at least 2 months it has been in my tank. It is only now starting to show small holes in its leaves.
> 
> Could CO2 be the cause of all of this perhaps? The biggest change I made is that there are now simply MORE plants in the tank than before. I have the supplies to set up a small DIY CO2 system if need be.


Let me clarify, are the plants continuing to put up healthy shoots but their older leaves are dying? This issue is repeated over a period of time? Or are these old leaves that are looking bad since you've changed the scape?

Sometimes plants need to adjust to new substrate or water parameters and their old leaves die off (once). If this is the case, just trim the old leaves off and let the new ones grow out. If the old leaves repeatedly dies off then we are looking at deficiency.


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## Bunny

A bit of both...
The older leaves are simply not doing well, But also some of the newer ones are starting to look worse as they get older. Even as recent as one set of leaves down from the crown of the sunset hygro is starting to look sad.


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