# How quickly can I do another water change???



## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

I have a extremely overstocked african tank at the moment. Temporary until I can move them into their new home soon. Anyways I do a weekly 50% water change and that has always kept my nitrates below 40ppm. About 10 days ago I added 8 juveniles and with the holidays and so much family staying with me I skipped a water change. I just did one and test my water... my nitrate are at 40ppm after a 50% water change. 

I did this about 2 hours ago. Is it ok for me to do another 50% tonight or should I give it a couple days. I like to keep my nitrates below 20 because its good for the fish and easy for me to read my test chart. Anything higher than 20ppm and I can't tell the difference between 40,80 or 100ppm.

Anyways, Is it ok to do two 50% water changes in a single day, with a few hours between them.

thanks


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

I would recommend cleaning your filter tonight, and 50% water change tomorrow morning. 

did you test your water before your water change?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rather than doing another 50%, I would try to do 75% or so to bring the nitrates right down. Then once everything is stabilized clean the filter. But I would not clean the filter and do a wc in the same day.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

+1 to AWW's response. Cleaning the filter will help a lot!


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

I am running a single ac110 on this 33gal. I cleaned the sponge last weekend because I had to pull the filter cause it was making a slight noise, lubed the impeller shaft, noise gone. I didnt do a water change at the time though, thus the nitrates going up.

I did check the nitrates before the water change to see what 2 weeks without a change does to the water. This API kit I use it hard to read the difference once the ppm's go past 40. The test showed nitrates around 80-100ppm. After the first water change they came down to a little higher than 40. I actually just did another 50% water change. Going to wait an hour before doing a nitrate test again.

Anyone care to recommend a nitrate kit that is easier to read then the API kit?


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

sorry guys...........imo............if there are no ammonia or nitrites in the water I would leave the filter alone unless it needs it regular cleaning and wait a few days to do another w/c.stability of the water is more important than any ill effects the nitrates will cause. mine is continually high as it comes with nitrates from my well. I have noticed when i do more than 50%, my dolphin will get those big darker blue patches which are caused by stress but when i do smaller ones it doesnt happen. i have had some of my africans for 6years in high nitrate water and although not optimal they re all very healthy . but this is just my experience.


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

sorry your post wasnt up b4 i responded. i was going to mention canisters are worse for nitrates accumulating in it than hob. yur hob is obiviously keeping up with the bio load as it is turning evrything to nitrate so again, I wouldnt clean it just because of the nitrates.


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

onefishtwofish said:


> sorry guys...........imo............if there are no ammonia or nitrites in the water I would leave the filter alone unless it needs it regular cleaning and wait a few days to do another w/c.stability of the water is more important than any ill effects the nitrates will cause. mine is continually high as it comes with nitrates from my well. I have noticed when i do more than 50%, my dolphin will get those big darker blue patches which are caused by stress but when i do smaller ones it doesnt happen. i have had some of my africans for 6years in high nitrate water and although not optimal they re all very healthy . but this is just my experience.


Makes sense....

So those dark blue blotches on blue dolphins are a sign of stress. I recently picked up 2 the other day and they had these marks in the store tanks and when I got them home. I gotta go check if they still have them.


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

The only reason I suggest the cleaning the filter, is because the tank is overstocked. 
If you recently added more fish, you might have more build up in the filter then you are used too. 
Now that you have done a water change, what are your levels at?

What's your stock list?


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

AWW said:


> Now that you have done a water change, what are your levels at?
> What's your stock list?


I'm embarrassed to say, 1 fish per gallon rule right 

I setup this tank to buy some fish I found on the forums while trying to get a 135gal up and running. With more deals popping up, new job and the holidays, the 135gal is taking longer then expected to finish and the 33gal has a ton of fish. They are all happy, no aggression and eating like pigs so I think things should be ok for another 2 weeks.

I am going to test the levels again and post them up. I am hoping nitrates are now down around 20ppm... will report back shortly.


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

Tested the nitrates again. I hate this API kit, shows PPM below 40 but for sure more then 20. I am going to keep doing daily water changes until I can get the PPM down below 20 and go back to my usually 50% weekly changes. When my schedule was on track a 50% weekly water change always got my ppm's below 20.


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

On my reef tank I was doing 25% water changes every 10-12 hrs for a couple weeks


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

just a quick update... Did my 3rd 50% water change over a 2 day period. Looks like I finally got the nitrates down below 20ppm which is easy to read on the API kit. Gonna do another 50% change tomorrow and go back to my weekly routine.

thanks for the assistance, appreciate it.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

I did the same thing as you when I setup my big tank. I was waiting to move so I setup a temporary tank to house all the Africans I had been buying off members and LFS. In my case I bought way too many African's for the temporary tank. All my readings were high and 2 days before moving day fish started dying. I only had the fish in the tank for 2 weeks but the bio load was too much. I should of been testing the water more often. So keep an eye on it. Keep doing those water changes.


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

I think if I were doing massive water changes in the same tank I would
hook up a filling float to stop the water flow when the tank is full.
I would then start a permenent syphon or drian.

the waste water would be made up by the make up water/float
Cheers and Happy New Year


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Keep doing those water changes.


I love doing water changes... its the filter cleaning the sucks.

Are you gradually adding your buffers during water changes or just throwing the whole amount in 1 time as the water starts to fill up. I usually do it in 2 batches but not sure if I am just wasting my time splitting up the dosing.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

I put the buffers in while the tank is filling up. 1 at a time. I don't have a special way. I mix the buffer in a yogurt container with tank water. Than dump it in in front of a powerhead .The way I see it is after awhile of using buffers the tank builds it's buffering capacity. Which from my understanding means your Kh and Ph should remain fairly close even after adding new fresh water with a lower PH and KH value. So IMO it doesn't matter if you add it all at once. If you like to play on the safe side than keep doing what you are doing.

I have a Ph pen. I will check to see what happens today when I do my water change. I wish they made KH and GH pens. That be awesome. Ill try a little experiment to see what happens during the fill up process. I know previously Ive done a water change and didn't add buffer and my PH, KH stayed relatively the same. As for Gh I add equilibrium. It deffinitly needs to be added each time as well as the lake salt.

Oh and I heard back from Seachem. The only buffer that contains de chlorinator is PH Neutral. So we do need to keep using tap water conditioner ")


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi Mike. Do you add water conditioner with a continuous change system? I've got a drip system on my 155g and every few days I throw a capful of Prime in; but I don't know if I need to be. My house water is carbon filtered, and I would expect with the slow, consistent exchange rate that any trace amounts of chlorine would dissipate on its own anyway.



mikebike said:


> I think if I were doing massive water changes in the same tank I would
> hook up a filling float to stop the water flow when the tank is full.
> I would then start a permenent syphon or drian.
> 
> ...


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

monsterfishkeepers.com is a good resource to find that answer to your drip question... most of those guys with huge tanks run a drip system. I am 90% sure those guys are not using any type of water conditioner. Please do more research before you stop using prime, I am not really sure.

do you have any idea how much water your changing everyday on that drip system?


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## Phillyb (Jan 18, 2011)

Hope the fish are doing good, all the best when you get to setting up the new tank!


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

They are doing great... no issues. Actually have upped my water changes from once a week to once ever 3 days. Fish just love the water change. I enjoy seeing them happy and can visually see them happier after ever water change. I am trying to grow them out quicker, thus the more frequent changes. I have yet to check the nitrates since a few days ago but I bet with the more frequent water changes the nitrates stay below 20ppm at all times.


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm changing about 100 gallons a day at the moment. Just added some new fish. The tank is heavily stocked with approximately 75 juvenile and adult africans. Even with a change rate that high, the nitrates won't go below 5ppm.

I'm hoping the couple pounds of sludge that came out of my poret foam today will allow me to slow the drip (it's actually a stream atm!). I control the rate of exchange with a ball valve on the siphon line. I measure the nitrates weekly and adjust the flow accordingly.



mikeross said:


> monsterfishkeepers.com is a good resource to find that answer to your drip question... most of those guys with huge tanks run a drip system. I am 90% sure those guys are not using any type of water conditioner. Please do more research before you stop using prime, I am not really sure.
> 
> do you have any idea how much water your changing everyday on that drip system?


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

One day I hope to set something like this up for my tanks.

So what type of africans do you have. Are you breeding/selling any? Where do you find your juvenile fish?

I came across this link... http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php

When I plugged in 155g tank, 100g daily drip I got back " The drip system will change 47.54 % of the Tank's water in one day and 72.48 % in two days.

Assuming no additional pollutants are added, drip system will replace 98.91 % of the Tank's water in a week"

I also read a post today with some people not doing anything to their drip water, some aging it in huge containers and other putting a charcoal filter on the drip line. I didn't read anyone actually conditioning the water with a liquid conditioner. The above figures show that most of the condition water is out of the system in 2 days and completely gone in a week.


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

Doing 2 50% water changes a week will have the same effect on your water chemistry, will save a ton of water and is only 2 cap fulls of prime :bigsmile:


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

I did a water change yesterday. I didn't realize I was out of Malawi buffer until 1/2 the water was drained from the tank. So I had to do the experiment either way. My Ph was at 7.7 before the water change. It was at 7.6 after. I didn't get a chance to measure Kh. The drop was minimal and if your tank has a higher Ph/Kh than mine it would be even less. So IMO and now IME it doesn't matter if you add it all at once or in stages. Along as you are adding the same amount each water change there shouldn't be much fluctuation in ph/kH.


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

I recently compiled a list since I wasn't exactly sure how many I had. Send me your email and I'll send you the spreadsheet. I'm not selling any at the moment, but in the near future I'll be sorting out my two tanks (other one is a 125g). Right now they are both mixed with mbuna, peacocks and haps. Once the juveniles (in the 125g) get a bit larger I'll do a major sort and move all the mbuna into the 125g, and put all the peacocks and haps in the 155g. No doubt when the move happens they'll be fireworks and likely some fish will have to go.

I've been collecting cichlids for about a year and a half from all different sources. BCA members, craiglist, pet stores - a bunch from the US pet stores.

I do have some fry in a couple breeder boxes. Yellow labs, and an unknown peacock (one of the fish I got from Dino spit in the bucket during transport - don't know who it was - I think it was the ruby red). I do attempt to isolate holding females; especially if it is a less common fish. it's just hell to catch them in the 155 without freaking everyone out by draining the water down and removing driftwood/rocks. I've even tried the flashlight in the eyes at night trick.

Thanks for the site. I actually have about 175g of water with the 46g sump half full of water. I know you would use less water if you only did one change a week, but the main purpose of the drip system (in addition to removing the time required for weekly water changes, bucket/hose routine) is to keep the water chemistry constant; presumably like in the wild. The nitrates are always the same as they don't do their weekly rise and fall. A drip system is very simple to set up if you have drain below your tank. I can post photos of my system if people are interested.



mikeross said:


> One day I hope to set something like this up for my tanks.
> 
> So what type of africans do you have. Are you breeding/selling any? Where do you find your juvenile fish?
> 
> ...


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

This sounds very interesting. Do I need a sump to use this drip system? I would love to have something like that for my discus tank just for the fact that the pH and such can be kept more constant.


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## AKAmikeross (Nov 5, 2012)

Fish rookie said:


> This sounds very interesting. Do I need a sump to use this drip system? I would love to have something like that for my discus tank just for the fact that the pH and such can be kept more constant.


no sump needed I think... Just need a controlled drip into the tank and an overflow taking the water to a drain or outside.


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

If you have a sump you can hide the float valve and drain lines, but it would work the same way without one. If you have a canopy you wouldn't really see it either.

My setup doesn't require any drilling or pumps. It has a 1/4 inch plastic drain line that goes up and over the edge of my sump, through the floor and to a drain in a laundry room below the tank. There is a ball valve at the end to control the rate of flow. There is a second 1/4 line that I plumbed in to my house 3/4 cold water line. I added a pressure reducer to take it down to 15psi to reduce the chance of something leaking. I used a little giant float valve in the sump to maintain the water level. A bonus of the system is whenever I want to water house plants I take a scoop of water out of the tank, and the float automatically makes up the water volume removed. The water level is always restored to same level whenever I make a change. The whole setup was about 50$; but watching the fish swim by each day thanking you for the fresh water? Priceless.

Not included in the 50$ is the whole house carbon filter I installed months ago when Chilliwack started adding chlorine to our perfectly good water. I couldn't stand the smell/taste/thought of drinking poison. I'd recommend at least adding a small filter to the water intake line if you have chlorinated water. A small one is around 30$ - replacement carbon filters are about 5$.



mikeross said:


> no sump needed I think... Just need a controlled drip into the tank and an overflow taking the water to a drain or outside.


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