# over flow boxes vs Sump ready tanks



## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Hey everyone. I'm curious on peoples thoughts on over flow boxes vs pre drilled sump ready tanks. I found an over flow box that's seems top notch. You have to drill holes to install it. I don't like the suction style ones. This would take up way less room in the tank. Its a bit pricey but I'm building my dream tank so I want what's best 

Ghost Overflow | Reef Savvy

What are you thoughts????

Thanks in advance


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

You won't lose suction or the U-tube type hang on back overflow if that is what you worry. I have used that for years.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

That's pretty cool Justin, seems like a good product. I actually prefer the boxes that go inside the tank just like this one. If you are referring to the pre drilled, built in overflow tanks, I don't like those as much. The standard overflows on those take up alot of in tank space and at the same time do not have a huge skimming capacity. A box like the one in your link provides a way larger skimming area. I think more and more custom SW tanks are going with this type of overflow. Coast to coast style even. 

Dream tank....I like the way you are thinking.


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

A built in overflow that goes to the bottom of the tank is better for Africans. You don't need large skimming capacity since the waste sinks, not floats. My 155 bow has dual corner overflows, but they the both have bottom intakes. A few powerheads and all the waste disappears. Yes they take up some room in the tank, but having it almost maintenance free is worth it.

My 125 has a canister filter, a couple power heads and a hang on the back overflow box. I have to vacuum it from time to time... 

I definitely prefer the internal overflows.... No plumbing on the backside of the tank either, which is cleaner and allows you to have the tank much closer to the wall.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Thanks guys, some mixed opinion which is good. I see valid points from both sides. 

The skimmer I posted apparently comes in a 24" model although the biggest I saw on their webpage was 20”. I was also looking at glass-holes.Com's skimmers but the Ghost 1 I posted is far superior.

I'm most likely going to be building my own sump. I'd like to use a 50 to 60g tank. Plumberboy and I have also come up with the idea of drilling a large hole at the 50% mark, adding a ball valve and draining straight to my bathroom sink plumbing, which just happens to be behind the wall of where the tank will go. Sticking with this idea I will need some space between the tank and wall, which my current tank has already and its never bothered me. The 50% drain would also help remove a lot of the poop as mentioned by smccleme. At this point I'm up for opinions from everyone. I will be running cold and hot water to the sump. NO more spilt water or python, yippy! 

I know Tony liked hearing it, this will be the African tank of all African tanks. I'm not looking to spend $10,000 but I'm okay with spending $5,000 on the entire setup but less is always nice. I want LED lighting and have seen a couple options I like. My buddy is building the stand so it will be another show piece. I got the backing from the wife, so full steam ahead  I own my house so I'm free to cut holes and do as I please. Plus I wear the pants in the relationship so there hasn't been much debate on what happens with the new tank. Lol 

I've been considering keeping my Xp4 and running it with the sump. I currently have it running my UV and like how the 2 pair together. Its the Fx5 I'm wanting to part ways with.

What are your thoughts on my idea so far


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

Why not buy a custom built tank with an external overflow? Nothing in tank to get in the way and good surface skimming, also with running a Herbie it will be dead silent


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

Also the glass holes overflow boxes are crap IMO, I don't agree with putting bulkheads in backwards and the teeth on the weir weren't straight on the last kit I threw out


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

Only downfall with external boxes is you normally can put the tank directly against a wall


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

My internal box cost maybe 15.00 it's just a glass box that I siliconed to the back of my tank


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

jbyoung00008 said:


> I know Tony liked hearing it, this will be the African tank of all African tanks. I'm not looking to spend $10,000 but I'm okay with spending $5,000 on the entire setup but less is always nice. I want LED lighting and have seen a couple options I like. My buddy is building the stand so it will be another show piece. I got the backing from the wife, so full steam ahead  I own my house so I'm free to cut holes and do as I please. Plus I wear the pants in the relationship so there hasn't been much debate on what happens with the new tank. Lol
> 
> I've been considering keeping my Xp4 and running it with the sump. I currently have it running my UV and like how the 2 pair together. Its the Fx5 I'm wanting to part ways with.
> 
> What are your thoughts on my idea so far


Yeah, it is definitely nice to be able to do things from scratch and do it right. We've all done the scrounging up parts to put together a setup thing but it sure feels nice to do your "ideal" setup at some point. Now is as good as time as any! I'll be working on a couple of setups myself in the next few months.

Why would you keep the canister? Your sump would provide ample room for bio and for mechanical filtration as well. If you have sufficient flow in the tank, it should keep most waste suspended enough to end up past the overflow and into the sump. I don't think the XP would be powerful enough to suck up waste effectively anyway. Still need to vac the sand periodically regardless.


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

I do think external is the coolest and you don't see it as much. Mine is internal works good but a little ugly


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Thanks Dino. The ghost one is almost invisible and pro looking which I like. I'm still not sure if they are available so building a replica might be in the future. They are so slick looking plus I'll bre painting the back of the tank black so it will be very hard to see


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Spit fire thanks for the opinion on the glass holes over flows. After seeing some other overflows I've decided not to go that route. Your comment was a factor. As for getting a tank made, it just seems over priced and I don't mind setting it all up. I find it fun and rewarding.

I'm still trying to learn this Herbie version and the other types. Add this point I'm really liking the ghost 20" I contacted Reefsavy. They take a month to arrive and they make it when its ordered. For $300 its worth it. I could build it to save a few bucks and hope it works well, or buck up and get top notch. I'm thinking do it right!


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Thanks guys, some mixed opinion which is good. I see valid points from both sides.
> 
> The skimmer I posted apparently comes in a 24" model although the biggest I saw on their webpage was 20". I was also looking at glass-holes.Com's skimmers but the Ghost 1 I posted is far superior.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you were still thinking of having a hole at the 50% mark, with a drain controlled by a ball valve. I'd reconsider if you were - unless you're draining lots of water through it, it will plug with waste. The drains I use for the continuous water change systems all drain filtered water.

You should come check out my setups in Chilliwack next time you're out this way fishing.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

the in laws moved to chilliwack so Im ofut that way often. I still want to do the 50% water change valve. Why would it clog or what part would clog? Im not keen with the drip setup because its a waste of water but Im always up for different opinions.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

with the 50% water mark, the problem might be if your return pump stop, your tank will flood the sump. Dino's idea is best to do auto drip. It really is the best.


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## Plumberboy (Jun 2, 2014)

I think what Justin is talking about, and what i am also planning on doing, is having a 1" bulkhead fitting w/screen, drilled at the 50% mark on the back of the tank. An accessible ball valve just below the tank, and the 1" pvc drain tied into the sanitary system, will allow us to open the valve and very quickly drain the tank without hoses. Not tied to the sump, or affecting the sump at all. Just for speedy water changes. A nice black bulkhead fitting blending into a black background nicely i think. Hoping to do it on Justin's tank first. That way if it fails, i wont do it on my own tank!


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I have that exact setup on my tank I'm setting up right now. Screen and bulkhead with a valve to a fitting that I can attach a garden hose to.


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

Check out this overflow box system. 
H2Overflow - Elegant Aquairum Overflow with Miniman Footprint


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Heres the plan


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Any opinions on my drawing. Its just an Idea. Ive never hooked up a sump in this fashion but I figure having the 3rd pipe on the overflow go to the drain would be a good idea. I know its meant to return to the sump so you dont run the return pump dry but since Its more comon for me to overfill my tank, I figure Id rather replace a $200 pump rather my $3000 laminate floor. Its just an idea but any opinions would be appreciated


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Bonsai Dave that is a neat overflow. Thanks for sharing


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I have the box that Dave recommended. It works and is nice low profile but if you are starting from scratch I would do the beananimal as its just a better setup. The other one is a nice compromise for me as my tank did not come with overflows. 

I'm currently setting up my first sump and my biggest concern was overflowing the tank or the sump. Here's my biggest lessons for this weekend. Return height should be a little higher than the overflow height. Setting the above heights is also very important to ensure that in a power outage situation you don't overflow the sump when the water siphons back. You also have to make sure that if your drain line gets plugged that the water in the sump won't overflow your display tank. Thus setting the heights above is super important as is the size of the sump and the water levels within the sump. The reef sites are great reading as guys ask this same question over and over Lol.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Tony, return can be lower, you can do two things... Put a one way valve in the return, or do calculation on gallon of water when power is out. 

For example, let's do a easy setup. 90g 48"X24"X18". Now assuming you lowest point is your return which is 4" below. Your total gallon of water going to your sump will be 15g of water. Assuming you do what I do, keeping 1/3 filled sump, a 45g tank will do the sump without flooding. Even if you half filled your sump, at 22.5g, 15g of water going down will not flood it.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Yup. Can put in a check valve. Though I think like you said if you do the right math, everything should be fine.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I have seen some crazy setup. a 33g with 6-7 gallon drain and only a 10g sump. With the sump 1/2-1/3 filled, a power out will flood a little.

Worest one is 210g with a 30g sump...


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Yeah mine is around 90 to 95g with a 21g sump. So not bad at all....I think. Lol


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

depends on how low your lowest pipe is  If 4" below water, = 15g going down... yikes...


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Yup. I've been doing measurements and math. I should be safe. I only fill enough that its less than 2" drop before it will be below the overflow level. Such a different experience learning a sump


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## Daryl (Jun 1, 2010)

I was going to suggest a bean animal design as all of my search fu over the last year or so has led me back to that style each time.
I think your modified version should work - but like you said, if something goes wrong, better to replace the pump than the flooring. 

You could probably contact the Bean animal guy and ask for their input on the modification.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Thanks for the input Darryl and suggestion. I will email Reef Savvy and ask their opinion. I think it should work but Im new to this also. I know my tendencies and forgetting I am filling a tank is one of them LOL


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

Plumberboy said:


> I think what Justin is talking about, and what i am also planning on doing, is having a 1" bulkhead fitting w/screen, drilled at the 50% mark on the back of the tank. An accessible ball valve just below the tank, and the 1" pvc drain tied into the sanitary system, will allow us to open the valve and very quickly drain the tank without hoses. Not tied to the sump, or affecting the sump at all. Just for speedy water changes. A nice black bulkhead fitting blending into a black background nicely i think. Hoping to do it on Justin's tank first. That way if it fails, i wont do it on my own tank!


I get the idea now. One drawback to that system is that you have to shut the return pump off when doing a water change.

As mentioned a few times, a continuous water change system is the way to go! No water change drama! Minimal difference in the amount of water used, better for the fish, less time spent on maintenance, more time looking at fish etc.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

smccleme you really do love that drip system of yours  Im still up in the air about it. One of my issues is that it seems to be a waste of water. How much water is leaving your tank each day? Is there any downfalls to the system in your opinion?


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

jbyoung00008 said:


> smccleme you really do love that drip system of yours  Im still up in the air about it. One of my issues is that it seems to be a waste of water. How much water is leaving your tank each day? Is there any downfalls to the system in your opinion?


I change about 125% water each week in each tank. I've got about 500 gallons of fish water. The cost for water each month is about $10 (which includes the water my family of 4 uses).

The water is not wasted. First I recover the heat from it (either by pre-heating the incoming water, or by space heating my sun room by running it through long runs of pipe). In the spring, summer, fall, I then pipe it outside to water my gardens and lawn. Nothing wasted.

The two drawbacks of the system relate to the setup. The initial cost of the plumbing parts although not overly expensive will likely run you $150. This would include a carbon filter that you'd add to your fill line to remove the chlorine. This cost is offset somewhat by not having to treat your water with prime. This filter needs to be changed every 6 months or so. Secondly, you have to have the waterline and drain line permanently plumbed. This would be a major problem if you rented, or if drain pipes/water lines weren't handy. That doesn't sound like that's the case for you.

I've run fill and drain lines to three different locations in my house. Upstairs to a room above garage, on the mainfloor and into the garage. I used floor vents and cold air return ducks to run the lines. The only place I drilled a hole was through my garage wall into the crawl space where I installed a laundry tub.

The upstairs and main room tanks just have a cold water line running to them to fill. In the garage, where I now have multiple tanks, I have the fill lines plumbed into both the hot and cold lines. I can then adjust the fill water temp. In the winter I was running straight hot water to help reduce the heating costs. Natural gas heated water is far less expensive than electrically heated water. The electric heaters would rarely come on.

I use 1/4" plastic for fill, and 3/8" plastic for drain lines. All push fittings. I've never had a leak.

The hardest part about doing it with your setup is getting your buffering sorted out. You would need to measure how much water you're draining each day, and add the corresponding amount of fertilizer/co2 or whatever you use.

In addition to constant, stable water parameters, you don't have to drag hoses out once a week. There is no 'water change day'. Think of it simply as just a very slow water change that never stops. Kind of like in nature  And if you oversize your sump, and use things like poret foam instead of filter socks, you won't have to touch your tank for months.


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## shift (Dec 21, 2012)

I was working on a design that had in tank pipes but a coast to coast super thin design similar to the ghost. Mainly because I don't want the tank to be to
Thick and up against the wall









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

I've got africans in my 155g bow which has two corner overflows - a relatively small amount of surface area. In my opinion, you don't need a large surface area overflow as the water moves around quite a bit because of the current created by the two return jets. Since Justin is running a fresh water tank, it's far more critical to have bottom of the tank uptakes (like the ones Bunny is selling) than overflow ones. Add a couple powerheads and you never see poop anywhere. I haven't vacuumed my tank in over a year.

(take note of the number of fish in the tank - nitrates never a problem with continuous water change)

Justin - clear your mailbox.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Smccleme. Thank you for the detailed explanation of your setups. I will be in Chilliwack this weekend. I'd like to come over and see all your setups. I'll empty my inbox. 

One issue I see is that my African tank is planted. BC water has no GH so I would need to add something daily to keep my plants healthy so that might be an issue.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Your African tank looks amazing. I can't wait to see it


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