# Endlers -- what conditions will work for them?



## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi All,

I'd like to try some endlers. I've been told that they're just like guppies or that they are hardier than guppies and can live well at room temperature in Vancouver's water. But when I looked up information about them on Seriously Fish, I discovered that they like water that is quite a bit warmer than what guppies like, and also harder.

Have any of you had success with endlers? What kind of an environment did you provide them with?


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## Blackbar (Apr 23, 2010)

Here is some good info.

http://www.viviparos.com/Fichas/Endler eng.htm

I would at least harden the water to the min. for their natural environment.

At temperatures below 76f you'll get a higher ratio of males to females. At temps higher than 79f you'll get a higher ratio of females to males.

If you find true native class endlers here let me know. They are very rare. Almost all are hybrids.


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## t-bore (Apr 21, 2010)

Maureen,
I had endlers for a while in a 10 gal planted. They are easy to keep and a very colorful and energetic fish to watch. I did weekly water changes using "Prime" for the chlorine and that was it. Drop a bit of food in once a day. I suggest just getting a few to start maybe 1 or 2 males with 3-4 females and they will breed like crazy. After two months I couldn't even count how many I had in there! It sounds cruel but I started to use them as food for my bigger fish, i just scooped the net in the tank and what I caught went in the big tank! 

Cheers,
Travis


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi Blackbar,

That's a very interesting site! Thanks!
I'm not sure that I'd be able to recognize a pure endler. Do you happen to have any? <grin>



Blackbar said:


> Here is some good info.
> 
> http://www.viviparos.com/Fichas/Endler eng.htm
> 
> ...


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## kelly528 (Apr 21, 2010)

Pure endlers.... the only place I have heard of that carries them is Swamp River Aquatics, a breeder in the U.S. The guy, AdrianHD has developed some pretty cool strains of pure endlers.

They are pretty frickin hardy, I have had mine for forever. They did quite fine in soft water although now I have crushed coral in their filter to simulate natural conditions. I keep mine at 74.

Cool fish... the F1 guppy hybrids look quite neat, mutts or not. I should probably start fooling around and breeding some interesting gupplers come to think of it.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey, Travis! That sounds like a great tank!

I'm squeamish about feeding worms to fish, never mind fish to fish, but I know that my kids will be very understanding about my having to add another tank... and another... and another... if the population grows. I wonder if that's my secret plan!



t-bore said:


> Maureen,
> I had endlers for a while in a 10 gal planted. They are easy to keep and a very colorful and energetic fish to watch. I did weekly water changes using "Prime" for the chlorine and that was it. Drop a bit of food in once a day. I suggest just getting a few to start maybe 1 or 2 males with 3-4 females and they will breed like crazy. After two months I couldn't even count how many I had in there! It sounds cruel but I started to use them as food for my bigger fish, i just scooped the net in the tank and what I caught went in the big tank!
> 
> Cheers,
> Travis


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

You sound very knowledgeable about endlers! I have never ordered fish online, though perhaps I'll try that one day now that I've had such a great experience with ordering plants by mail.

How can you tell if you're getting a pure endler or a hybrid? What is an F1 hybrid? Are there other kinds of hybrids? How do you know that your endler is not actually a guppy?



kelly528 said:


> Pure endlers.... the only place I have heard of that carries them is Swamp River Aquatics, a breeder in the U.S. The guy, AdrianHD has developed some pretty cool strains of pure endlers.
> 
> They are pretty frickin hardy, I have had mine for forever. They did quite fine in soft water although now I have crushed coral in their filter to simulate natural conditions. I keep mine at 74.
> 
> Cool fish... the F1 guppy hybrids look quite neat, mutts or not. I should probably start fooling around and breeding some interesting gupplers come to think of it.


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## kelly528 (Apr 21, 2010)

F1 is first generation. So an F1 hybrid would be a fish whose parents were a pure guppy and a pure endler. And F2 would be the offspring of 2 F1 generation fish. Its mendelian genetics, you could probably get a good diagram if you looked it up on wikipedia.

I think there is a way to tell if you have a pure endler (something like they only have one black unbroken bar on each side) but I don't think its surefire. The only other way is through parentage, a pure endler will descend form a line of pure endlers caught from the wild. This is what this guy Adrian does. Goes on expeditions to the bay in venezuela that endlers are native to and collects wild endlers, then take them back for use as broodstock. He then sells them on aquabid.

Here's his page: http://www.swampriveraquatics.com/

And here is another good page on him and another wild endler breeder named Armando Pou. Very interesting stuff.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

I have another question about endlers. My endlers are really big eaters. They love bloodworms, microworms, tubifex, and anything that I throw into the tank, including guppy food.

But, being livebearers and related to guppies, shouldn't they be preferring veggie-based food? I wasn't expecting them to be so carniverous (omniverous?). Will it harm them to eat bloodworms, etc? Some of the females are pregnant -- should I allow them to eat as much as they want, or should I just feed them a pinch a couple of times a day?


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## Blackbar (Apr 23, 2010)

Morainy said:


> I have another question about endlers. My endlers are really big eaters. They love bloodworms, microworms, tubifex, and anything that I throw into the tank, including guppy food.
> 
> But, being livebearers and related to guppies, shouldn't they be preferring veggie-based food? I wasn't expecting them to be so carniverous (omniverous?). Will it harm them to eat bloodworms, etc? Some of the females are pregnant -- should I allow them to eat as much as they want, or should I just feed them a pinch a couple of times a day?


Hikari algae wafers are a favourite of my endlers. Also, you could get some spirulina flake food for them. You're correct, they should have a good balance of veggie-based food and some high protein foods (don't overfeed protein).


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## DR1V3N (Apr 22, 2010)

Blackbar said:


> If you find true native class endlers here let me know. They are very rare. Almost all are hybrids.


Best of luck with endlers Maureen! They are fantastic especially if you're lucky enough to witness a live birth.

Blackbar, how do you tell pure strain endlers? I've received this question a lot as I've been trading/selling some off.

My males look exactly like your avatar pic. While the females remain the neutral green/gray.

All characteristics are similar in each brood.


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## Blackbar (Apr 23, 2010)

To be honest you can't tell for sure just by looking at them. Some hybrids look very similar to native endlers. However, native endlers always have strong metallic colouration and patterns - no pastelish colours. Hybrids usually have duller colours. Native endlers also have simple short fins while hybrids often have extended dorsals and tails (because they often have been crossed with fancy guppies). Native endlers have a thinner anal fin.

Female guppies are usually greyer in colour and endler females are usually golder in colour.

I've determined that my strain is hybrid, though it resembles native varieties. 

The problem with endlers is that suppliers often import only males for sale, leaving hobbyists having no alternative but to breed them with female guppies. Also, many hybrid strains have been introduced into the hobby without being properly labeled as hybrid.

The only way to know for sure is if you have documents from a reputable dealer showing the origin of the fish.


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