# Wet/Dry Plumbing Question



## rgrling (Apr 22, 2010)

Hi all! I recently set up a DIY wet/dry and everything is working well so far. However, I have encountered a problem and would really appreciate any advice you guys have:










The drain hose is generating a LOT of noise (basically sounds like someone is flushing the upstairs toilet all the time!) The grey hose is a spare that I had lying around and I'm sure the big loop is causing the water to back up and flow unevenly. If I were to replace the hose, I'm wondering:


Hard plumbing (PVC) vs. soft plumbing (hose)? What are the benefits/drawbacks of each type?
With hard plumbing, do I need to use PVC cement on all the connections? If so, how can I lift the lid off the wet/dry bucket to clean the media?
The drain bulkhead is a 1" hose barb. Obviously it connects well with a hose, but will it connect securely with PVC piping? 
Do I need to install a ball valve?
Anything else I should consider or be aware of?

Another possibility is to reverse the positions of the bucket and the return pump so that the pump is sitting directly underneath the return bulkhead and the grey hose is stretched out to eliminate the loop. Any thoughts on that?


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

When I did mine, I used hard pipe but I think in hindsight, I should have stuck with soft. It's just that much easier to do everything with and creates less noise issues. Are you using any kind of stand pipe for the drain? Google Durso standpipe. There are other types out there too. Also, anytime you have the ability to install a true union ball valve, I would do it. Just gives you alot of flexibility for maintenance if you can just shut off the water. Have you done a power off test to see how much water drains out of your tank? Sorry if you already know this stuff, I'm just rattling things off my head as I wait in line for lunch.


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## rgrling (Apr 22, 2010)

Thanks for the input, tony. I have read that hard piping can create noise but was not sure how common this is. Anyone else have any noise issues with PVC?

My overflow chamber has a Durso standpipe in it already and is working like a dream. There is no waterfall noise and I can adjust the water level easily. I've done several power-off tests and the water levels are safe (it's a 20g sump on a 92g tank, so there's a lot of room in the sump)

I figured that a ball valve would be a good idea. Are there valves designed specifically for soft plumbing? Or do I DIY with a valve, two screw-in pipe ends, and two hose barbs?

Thanks for helping me out during your lunch break!


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Haha no worries. 

You are exactly correct, you don't have to use a true union type, but the true union ball valves allows you to take the whole assembly apart for maintenance. The true unions are nice as alot of them include both a thread and a slip fitting. Just google up pvc true union ball valve and you'll see, there's lots of them. You could just use a regular ball valve and just attach hose barbs. I had mine right under the tank connected to the drain bulkhead. Then had a hose barb on one end to attach to my soft hose.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

A hard pipe drain versus a soft drain should not have a sound difference. The looping of the hose will cause gurgling for sure, the drain line should be as direct into the filter as possible. I would find another piece of hose or hard pipe it.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Sorry to say but does not look good. The way the lid sits, any condensation on the lid will find its way to the outside of your container and damage you stand. 

If you hard pipe it, you have to make allowance to lift the lid to add water.

Also need to factor in extra capacity when power fail.


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## rgrling (Apr 22, 2010)

@ Rastapus: Thanks for chiming in, good to know that hard and soft piping are about the same. I was on another forum and saw someone mention "spa flex tubing", which apparently has the rigidity of PVC tubing but also the flexibility of vinyl tubing. I might look into that option.

@ gklaw: Hm, didn't think about condensation. Thankfully, I think I have it covered: my drip plate fits very snugly into the underside of the lid (I actually made the plate with another lid from an identical tub.) So any condensation should be kept within the lid/plate combo and not leak out. Although now that you mention it, I will double check that part of the filter. Also, what did you mean by "factor in extra capacity when power fail"? Are you referring to the water level in the sump?


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

With wet-dry when power fail, water from the display tank will free flow into the sump until it reaches you drain level. You sump has to have spare capacity to hold this water. I only mention that as it appears that your wet-dry is just a small box.

And I agree with Grant that the flex pipe does not matter. It actually allows you to lift the lid without. And also get rid of the loop - but now you have to find a end adapter 

I also find that it is usually cheaper to look for a used sump on the forum then a DIY. The parts adds up pretty quick. I have one posted FS now 

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/marine-livestock-equipment-classifieds-28/fs-sump-$85-18788/


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

rgrling said:


> @ Rastapus: Thanks for chiming in, good to know that hard and soft piping are about the same. I was on another forum and saw someone mention "spa flex tubing", which apparently has the rigidity of PVC tubing but also the flexibility of vinyl tubing. I might look into that option.
> 
> @ gklaw: Hm, didn't think about condensation. Thankfully, I think I have it covered: my drip plate fits very snugly into the underside of the lid (I actually made the plate with another lid from an identical tub.) So any condensation should be kept within the lid/plate combo and not leak out. Although now that you mention it, I will double check that part of the filter. Also, what did you mean by "factor in extra capacity when power fail"? Are you referring to the water level in the sump?


Flexible Spa tubing is not very flexible at all. Go PVC or flex like you have, just more direct.


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## rgrling (Apr 22, 2010)

@gklaw: Ahh, I understand what you mean. I have done several power off tests and the water levels are fine. Nice-looking sump you're selling, I'm sure someone will pick it up soon


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Haha, spa FLEX is such a misnomer. Grant is so right on that one. I bought some 1.5" diameter and it was a real pita. I'd rather use hard pvc. Only good for very gradual curves.


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## rgrling (Apr 22, 2010)

okay, good to know, I was going to check out the spa flex tubing but I guess I'll just stick to good ol' PVC or vinyl for now.

I'm gonna try switching the positions of the tub and pump tonight and see what that sounds like. If things don't improve after that, I'll have to complete redo the plumbing.

Thanks all!


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

When I worked in the plastic pipe shop we heated and bend PVC up to 6" diameter by heating the pipes on rolling tables (to keep the pipe rotating) with infared heaters suspended over the pipes.
Then plugging the ends and applying low pressure air to prevent the walls from collapsing or wrinkling while bending them over a wooden form.

I have bend smaller up to 2" PVC by heating it with hot air gun or tiger torch, (Yes it needs a delicate touch and lots of practice).


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Cool Mike. Will keep that in mind - the low pressure air


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## rgrling (Apr 22, 2010)

So I switched the the bucket and the pump and the noise hasn't improved. Will try re-plumbing the drain with another hose and proper connectors and see what happens.

gklaw, thanks again for bringing up the lid leakage issue. A few drops of water did indeed make it out of the lid, so I've sealed the lid sandwich with silicone and drilled an emergency overflow bypass into the top of the lid should the bucket become severely clogged for any reason. I'm also thinking about putting the bucket on a stand so it doesn't touch the rim of the tank.

After listening more carefully, it seems like a lot of the noise is being generated by the Durso standpipe itself. The height of the standpipe is adjustable and keeps the water level high enough in the overflow so that there is no "waterfall" effect. But from what I can hear, the water does enter the empty pipe and cause quick a racket on its way down to the sump. 

Is there some special method of priming or setting up the Durso standpipe? I notice that there is a small hole in the top endcap; does this need to remain open or do I attach an air check valve?


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you gone the durso. Website? If your pipe is make noise you have done it incorrectly. Here is the web site. Durso Standpipes


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

If you are doing FW, put a ball valve on the return pump line to slow down the flow rate. It's better for the filtration anyway - I think (?). Can always add power head to add circulation in the tank.

You can also put the sump in a small basin as a secondary containment. With all that, get a real sump haha


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## Raf (Nov 6, 2010)

rgrling said:


> So I switched the the bucket and the pump and the noise hasn't improved. Will try re-plumbing the drain with another hose and proper connectors and see what happens.
> 
> gklaw, thanks again for bringing up the lid leakage issue. A few drops of water did indeed make it out of the lid, so I've sealed the lid sandwich with silicone and drilled an emergency overflow bypass into the top of the lid should the bucket become severely clogged for any reason. I'm also thinking about putting the bucket on a stand so it doesn't touch the rim of the tank.
> 
> ...


the air inlet at the top is critical to its proper operation, do not obstruct this.

My guess is either the loop on the Zephyr tube needs to be eliminated or your flowrate through the drain needs adjusting....

Also, make sure all that air that makes its way down to the DIY sump has somewhere to go....if you caulk the lid closed the air will have a difficult time escaping and could lead to ecessive noise/backpressure...


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Sure sounds like a flowrate issue, the Durso should not be so empty that there's splashing going on. And as Raf indicated, that hole and the size of the hole on the top of the Durso is critical to flowrate as well. 

I'm actually using my overflows without any standpipes and I just adjust the return flow to make sure I only have a couple of inches of "splashing" from the overflow.


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