# Chemical Reaction



## darb (Apr 21, 2010)

I have been treating my brackish tank for a while now and completed treatment earlier today. Thus I did a 50% water change, added a bag O carbon, added about 125 mls of Purigen, set my UV unit up on the tank and started up the skimmer and went out for a while.

I came back a few hours later and couldn't see the back of the tank and am thus doing emergency water changes. I can't see my fish and can barely make out the bottom of a 5 gallon pail to give an idea of the water clarity. It looks black/brown in the tank, but almost purple when it is poured down the toilet. My brand new 125 mls of Purigen is black and my skimmer is naturally pulling black gunk out.

Added chemicals include: Prime, API Triple Sulfa and Panacur and I am guessing that the UV unit is reacting with one of them and I am also assuming that it should be harmless, but ...

any knowledgeable comments?


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Yikes! No idea, other than, as you say, UV interaction.
But, hmm. Gunpowder (black powder) is a mixture of sulphur, charcoal and potassium nitrate. Got any potassium nitrate in there, perhaps in a fertilizer? 
;-)


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## Faiora (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd recommend running a full range of tests, especially for phosphates and nitrates. A chemical reaction could have caused a huge spike in these - both of which can cause sudden changes in the water colour...

Or it could be an algae outbreak of some sort? That could happen fast (although I don't know about "a few hours", I've seen it happen in a day), and probably can be caused, again, by spikes in different chemicals in the water. 

Actually, if you think about it - could be the purigen yanked out all the nitrates leaving you with a phosphate spike. I'm going to assume your tank isn't heavily planted, since it's brackish... so less buffer... 

Beyond that I'm useless though. Just some thoughts.


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## darb (Apr 21, 2010)

I did a 50% water change last night, added a second bag of charcoal and doubled the Purigen and there has been a substantial improvement in the past several hours.

I would suspect the Triple Sulfa and I would ask API, but they still haven't answered my question from about 2 weeks ago.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Do you think that the Triple Sulfa interacted with the UV? Or with something else? 
Here's a dense abstract about the photolysis of sulfa drugs in the aquatic environment:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15298203


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

This has been really intriguing me, so I Googled around a bit more. Found this:
http://www.marineandreef.com/Aquarium_UV_Sterilizer_Ultraviolet_Water_Sterilization_s/14.htm
"Can UV Sterilizers have negative effects?
Yes. UV can alter the structure of some dissolved chemical compounds. When using any drug or chemical medication check the directions for the drug or chemical to see if you should turn off your UV when using the drug or medication."

And this:
"Also, many medications
can be "denatured" by the UV light, so the sterilizer should be turned off when using medications, especially chelated copper treatments. The UV light will "break" the bond of the chelating agent, and the aquarium will have a sudden, lethal concentration of ionic copper."
http://www.livingreefs.com/uv-sterilizer-which-one-t836.html


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## darb (Apr 21, 2010)

That first article was .. well ... umm .. interesting. The abstract was enough to prompt me back to the old fall back position of the solution to pollution is dilution and that is good enough for me. 

There are three different sulfa drugs in the API antibiotic so chances are that at least one (or more) of them was included in that paper.

I know some drugs are effected by UV, but not which ones, thus I had kept my unit off during all of my treatments. The company's customer support line would be the best place to get an answer, but they would probably just error on the side of caution and recommend that you turn it off the unit.

But the fish fared fine, he emerged from the haze looking a little dazed and confused but a happy little camper.

On a big positive note, I finally cured a case of flashing after a long battle and treating with Maracyn/Maracyn 2/ Furin 2 (all as directed 4 or 5 day treatments) and Paraguard and Pazipro. But it was my last run of triple sulfa for a full 10 days (as recommended in all texts) in combination with Panacur. Probably close to $200 when you start to include pretty much a full bucket of salt from all of the water changes ...


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow! That's a pretty big bill. Similar to taking your cat to the vet for shots. 

What caused the flashing? Did you ever figure it out? Hope that your fish survived with no losses other than the solar eclipse.


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## seanyuki (Apr 22, 2010)

From my limited knowledge Panacur is Fenbendazole

Flubendazole and fenbendazole are chemically related but not the same. Flubendazole is commonly added to water, and can also be used in food.. But Fenbendazole (panacur) should only be used in the food. ...never add it to the water.

IMO shot gun treatments are harmful to fish....adding multiple meds not knowing which med is actually curing the fish



darb said:


> That first article was .. well ... umm .. interesting. The abstract was enough to prompt me back to the old fall back position of the solution to pollution is dilution and that is good enough for me.
> 
> There are three different sulfa drugs in the API antibiotic so chances are that at least one (or more) of them was included in that paper.
> 
> ...


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

UV will destabilize the Sulfa med, normally changing the water color to a browny yellow. That in combination with the Panacur, quite the cocktail.
It reminds me of my common phrase, your aquarium is not a salad. I don't mean that as a criticism, just that I find many hobbyists will try a number of methods at once. It is dangerous to mix chemicals and resins without understanding them completely. Many of the "simple" meds are still a combination of chemicals, any of which can react negatively to other products.

Maybe it was the stinky Prime?

UV should always be turned off during treatments.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

"But the fish fared fine, he emerged from the haze looking a little dazed and confused but a happy little camper."


I bet!


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## seanyuki (Apr 22, 2010)

Just sharing

My limited knowledge.......pathogenic parasites. as flws

1.Ectoparasites.......is defined as parasites that lives on the outer suface of the host for example on the water,mucus,fins,gills or beneath the sclae.

2.Endoparasites is defined as parasites that lives inside the host,for expample in the liver,kidney,gut,blood or other tissues in the body an fins.

3.Protozoa is group of microscopic single celled organisms........most of them are free living but some are important disease.......causing parasites and may be strain specific.

4.A fungus is a simple organism formely regarded as a plant lacks of green pigment,chlorophyll.they live either as saprophytes or as parasites of plants or fiish.some species infect and cause diease in fish

5.Bacteria is a group of microorganisms all of which lack a distinct nuclear membrance and is considered more primitive than animal and plant cells and have a cell wall of unqique coposition .........genearally they range in size of between 0.5 micro to 5 micro........amongst the many parasites bacteria.....some cause diease by producing poisons(endotoxin or exotoxin).

6.Virus is a minute particle that in capable ofreplication only within living cells......viruses are too small to be visiable with a light microscope and too small yo be trappefd by filters.....each consisyts of a nucleic acid surrounded by a prootein shell.


it is is important to know and understand the different parasites and how they work.


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## darb (Apr 21, 2010)

Well Francis/Sean life isn't always like a text book.

Yes, you are right panacure is fenbendazole, no argument there.

The target of the panacur was possible gill flues and thus dosing of the fish was not my intended approach. But marine fish and I am assuming brackish fish must ingest water regularly to replace lost fluids. Since the only water available is tank water, which was dosed with panacur the fish was doed by ingestion and then there is the consideration of the meds moving across the gills. So I would say that panacur was appropriate to treat possible gill flukes and any free floating stages, if present.

Time is also of the essence when a fish is ill and the longer the illness goes on the weaker the fish gets and lessons the chances of survival. That in addition to the 20 gallons of brackish water I was changing every other day was effecting my water changes on my other systems. My primary goal was to naturally cure the fish and I am/was less concerned with determining the nature of the illness over treating the fish.

Thus I made the choice to concurrently treat with an antibiotic and an anti-parasite, I have no regrets about making that choice and would not hesitate to do it again.

Thank you for your concern, but the topic of this thread is about meds reacting with UV light.



seanyuki said:


> From my limited knowledge Panacur is Fenbendazole
> 
> Flubendazole and fenbendazole are chemically related but not the same. Flubendazole is commonly added to water, and can also be used in food.. But Fenbendazole (panacur) should only be used in the food. ...never add it to the water.
> 
> IMO shot gun treatments are harmful to fish....adding multiple meds not knowing which med is actually curing the fish


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