# Substrate?



## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

Do plants need to have a special substrate, or can they survive in just regular gravel? 

I have fluorite in my current planted tank, but was hoping to save some money on the new tank and just get gravel.. But I don't want to screw myself if I decide I'd like some plants..


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I think it depends on the plants and on whether you column dose. My 20gal only has ugly blue gravel and I'd say half the plants (weed like or using rhizomes) in there are doing great. The others so-so. The tank is fairly established and I don't vacuum the gravel too much so there's probably a layer of poop on the bottom for the plants to feed from too. Finally, I think your lighting will make a difference. Low light/plants means they will need to use less nutrients from substrate.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

pretty much agree with the previous reply. You can always use root tabs as well.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

With gravels, it is hard for some plants to root but for long stem plants they are usually fine with root tab. In my opinion, ADA is without a doubt the very best.
If you are going to start a new tank and if it is within your budget I would recommedn getting something a bit better than plain old gravels just because you may want to grow a carpet in the front or do something like that in the future and it is a lot of work to change the gravel.
You can get a bag of flourite for under $20 from the US online, and there are also used substrate for sale here from time to time.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Or you can check out J&L aquatics for a selection of planted tank substrate such as seachem onyx sand and or flourite.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

I haven't found a reasonable way to order substrate online, shipping costs are always insane. The light in this tank is dismal, just a couple of little incandescent bulbs, so I don't think I'd be growing anything exciting in this one. Maybe I'll just keep this as my cheap-o tank.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Free shipping with purchases over $100. Local BC and a forum sponsor.
J&L Aquatics Shipping Policies


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

covertune said:


> I haven't found a reasonable way to order substrate online, shipping costs are always insane. The light in this tank is dismal, just a couple of little incandescent bulbs, so I don't think I'd be growing anything exciting in this one. Maybe I'll just keep this as my cheap-o tank.


You can change the bulbs to something more powerful, like Glo 6500K bulbs or just some CFL bulbs. You can still grow something there. Plus you may get a more powerful light fixture in the future so you never know.
If you just want very simple plants, you can also use sand which is cheaper and gives a clean look. It is also easier to keep as the food/waste will not fall into the bottom.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

Hm.. I thought sand would be harder to clean.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Yes and no. Sand is easy to maintain because sand as a substrate is quite compact, not a lot of residual organic matter collects underneath. A lot of the organic matter settles on top of the sand. However, having said that, if the sand is left undisturbed for long periods...say months on end, pockets of gas will collect which may or may not become harmful to the fish. I haven't had any of this issue. The plants in my tank root well enough within the sand; as well as the corydoras rummaging in it to keep it well aerated. 

When I do water changes and clean the sand, I usually just vacuum the organic matter that collects on top of the sand. 

In my personal experience, I've used gravel, florabase, flourite, and now sand. I've had sand in my tank for close to 2.5 years. I've been successfully growing Amazon swords, valisnera, and a few other plants with no problems (having put root tabs underneath).

I'm sure whatever substrate you use, you will find it'll suit your needs; other those those really ugly coloured plastic coated gravel.


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## zhima (May 10, 2010)

I think a substrate with high CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) is the best. It means the substrate is extremely porous, just like the porous ceramic in your filter media. It allows the nitrifying bacteria to grow in the substrate to help you decompose the critter waste and decomposing organic matters. I've tried ADA Amazonia I, flourite, Turface soil, and Eco Complete for my planted tank. My all time favorite remain as Eco Complete, but only the bigger granule types. The smaller granules are like sand. They are too fine and heavy. Over a long period of time, you will lose porosity due to fish waste and decaying plant roots, the soil gets denser and denser. Why would you want to start dense if anything will turn dense over time? you need nitrifying bacterias to help you decompose those and send them into the water column, so all you need to do is water changes.


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## niteshift (Mar 10, 2011)

Personally my best success has been with regular river pebbles and flourish excel my Valls grow like mad in them as do my swords.In fact my vals were at 5.5 feet before tear down of the 55. I like to keep it simple, but that's just me.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Vals don't melt with excel??


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## niteshift (Mar 10, 2011)

I do a half dose once every week


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## currietom (Oct 10, 2011)

jobber said:


> Free shipping with purchases over $100. Local BC and a forum sponsor.
> J&L Aquatics Shipping Policies


I just got a couple bags in the mail. Free shipping doesn't apply to substrate. Sure wish it did, ferry trips add up quick as well.


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## niteshift (Mar 10, 2011)

jobber said:


> Yes and no. Sand is easy to maintain because sand as a substrate is quite compact, not a lot of residual organic matter collects underneath. A lot of the organic matter settles on top of the sand. However, having said that, if the sand is left undisturbed for long periods...say months on end, pockets of gas will collect which may or may not become harmful to the fish. I haven't had any of this issue. The plants in my tank root well enough within the sand; as well as the corydoras rummaging in it to keep it well aerated.
> 
> When I do water changes and clean the sand, I usually just vacuum the organic matter that collects on top of the sand.
> 
> ...


Hmm How do you do it. I just tried sand in my 55 and after 9 months Ijust couldnt get plants to stay rooted even with jobes root tabs i went to Africans, simply because I just couldn't get plants to stay rooted and i didn't want to remove all the sand.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

zhima said:


> I think a substrate with high CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) is the best. It means the substrate is extremely porous, just like the porous ceramic in your filter media. It allows the nitrifying bacteria to grow in the substrate to help you decompose the critter waste and decomposing organic matters. I've tried ADA Amazonia I, flourite, Turface soil, and Eco Complete for my planted tank. My all time favorite remain as Eco Complete, but only the bigger granule types. The smaller granules are like sand. They are too fine and heavy. Over a long period of time, you will lose porosity due to fish waste and decaying plant roots, the soil gets denser and denser. Why would you want to start dense if anything will turn dense over time? you need nitrifying bacterias to help you decompose those and send them into the water column, so all you need to do is water changes.


Please correct me if Iam wrong. I though the bacteria that decompose waste is not called nitrifying bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria converts ammonia to nitrite but does not convert organic waste to ammonia...other bacteria do that, isn't it?


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

I ended up going with gravel.. I've got a couple of anubias I'll drop in there and hope to find some moss eventually that I can put on the driftwood.


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## zhima (May 10, 2010)

Generally aerobic or anaerobic bacteria. You can wiki nitrification to be precise at Nitrification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think if you were to write "nitrifying bacteria" in your biology test, you'll be marked wrong. I can't think of a word to sum up all these different bacteria of nitrification process so I played with the word "nitrify". You must be very precise on your test tho.


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## shift (Dec 21, 2012)

All of mine have been doing well in normal substrate. one is regular white rock/gravel and the other is real small pebbles.


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