# Low pH, cloudy water, and other water quality questions



## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi,

I'm currently running 2 planted, low-tech tanks, an Edge (12g, community tank with tetras, barbs, and amanos) and a brand new Spec (2.6g, betta tank with a few extras).

I finally treated myself to a proper test kit (Nutrafin's mini master + Nutrafin's GH/KH tests) and now I have a few questions:

1) My pH is very low in both tanks (Edge: 6.0, Spec: 5.8). While it's low, it's stable, at least in the Edge - been the same since I set it up in March. I recently (1 week/3 water changes ago) started buffering the Edge with Equilibrium, but it hasn't changed the pH. Should I try to fix this? I have Kent pH buffer but I'm told it's not a good idea to use that sort of thing.

2) My water is very soft out of the tap and in my Spec (GH: <20 mg/L, KH: 20 mg/L). Since I've been using Equilibrium in the Edge, the GH rose to 80 mg/L, but the KH remains unchanged. Is this normal? Should I use more equilibrium? Is it necessary to bother with Equilibrium? I really don't like using it, it makes a big mess.

3) My Edge tank has become cloudy (white cloudy, not green cloudy). This problem has coincided with 3 things: my starting to use equilibrium, my incident when I dropped a bunch of fish food in the tank, and the heat wave. I've been doing water changes daily or every second day and it's not helping at all. Any thoughts on what's going on and how I can fix it? 

Thanks so much for any insights from the experts. 

Additional info:
Ammonia and nitrites in both tanks is 0.
Nitrates are 2.5 in the new Spec and 10 in the Edge.
Neither tank is heated at the moment, temp in my apartment 25-28 (yes I'm dying).
All the fish/shrimp seem happy as far as I can tell.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

To raise KH and pH you need to add Alkaline, Equilibrium only raises GH.
Depending on the substrate you use it might be buffering your pH lower. For example I use ADA Amazonia and it tends to buffer my pH around 6.5; lower still if when it was new (around 6.0-6.2).

Some fish actually like low pH, if your fish are South American they may also be happy with low KH and low GH. What I keep in both my high tech tanks is KH2 and GH4-5. Because of CO2, my pH doesn't go above 6.5 - during the midday it is actually closer to 5.8. So far the health of all fish seem fairly good. Then again I tend to keep South American fish or very hardy fish.

Your nitrates of 2.5 and 10 is fairly normal. No need to worry until the nitrates are above 50.


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

Reckon, thanks for all this great information.
My substrate is ADA Malaya (Edge) and ADA Africana (Spec), so that's probably not helping with the pH.
I have mostly hardy fish as well, but I never thought of looking at where they came from and whether they may be happy with the current state of affairs - thanks for this excellent tip. I have to consider plants and shrimp, too - that's why I had initially started using equilibrium.

I guess I'm torn between two approaches:
1) Toying with chemicals as little as possible, which means the pH will be a bit low and my water will be quite soft, but the parameters will be very stable, or
2) Buffering for each parameter, which will make my water quality closer to "ideal" but will likely mean greater variation in each measure.

I see both here on the forum, but I see more of 2), though I also read that stability should be the #1 priority... So yeah, I'm torn.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

The water in BC is soft and has little KH. Which means unless you are changing your water a lot. The Ph will always fall. That's not stable. Adding buffers will help keep it stable. Don't think of Buffers as chemicals. If you want a nice tank than learning about buffers and applying them in crucial. Equilibrium is for GH as mentioned by Reckon. Both KH and GH are important. Good on you for trying to learn about them


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I think there are easy ways to avoid variation to your buffer dosing. If you are replacing 5 gallons of water in your 12 gal tank then just make your dosing easy - 1/2 a teaspoon or 1/2 a tablespoon, etc, just so your tanks are getting a bit of buffering. 

I do that myself. I give 12 'spoonsful' (1/4 tablespoon) of equilibrium every time I do a 50% water change to my 50 gallon for ~ 4 GH to the new water. It's SOME buffering for my plants and fish, which is better than nothing but at least it's consistent.

It's USUALLY good to give both your fish and plants at least a little water hardness.

As for shrimp. I haven't kept much in the past but I understand that cherry don't mind and might actually prefer lower pH anyways. Keeping CRS and CBS does require you to keep and manage the right parameters though.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)

Undersea Gal have a look at this site, should be able to give you some valuable info regarding all the questions you have.


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

jbyoung00008, thanks for the advice, and for the encouragement. I guess I won't give up on buffering just yet! I guess I should get myself some Alkaline or whatever it's called. 

Reckon, thanks for your "recipe". I've been doing something similar (just a little bit when I do water changes). But lately because of my cloudiness issue I'm doing a lot more water changes, so I haven't been quite sure how to adjust the Equilibrium dosage without having to test my water every 2 seconds. This should resolve once I figure out what's going on with my tank and resume weekly water changes.

Luke78 - thanks for the resource. I've been perusing the forum quite a bit (found a great sticky post on this), but the website you suggest looks quite comprehensive - much appreciated.


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

If you want to avoid chemicals and keep things a little more "natural" you could just put some limestone rocks in your tank to do your buffering for you.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

UnderseaGal said:


> jbyoung00008, thanks for the advice, and for the encouragement. I guess I won't give up on buffering just yet! I guess I should get myself some Alkaline or whatever it's called.


FYI... Seachem's Alkaline buffer is just baking soda in fancy packaging (it says so in their FAQ); so you've probably already got some.



UnderseaGal said:


> Reckon, thanks for your "recipe". I've been doing something similar (just a little bit when I do water changes). But lately because of my cloudiness issue I'm doing a lot more water changes, so I haven't been quite sure how to adjust the Equilibrium dosage without having to test my water every 2 seconds. This should resolve once I figure out what's going on with my tank and resume weekly water changes.


A TDS meter is also useful for mixing mineral salts and keeping track of your overall mineral content. It's a bit tricky to figure out at first (you have to relate your traditional test kits to the TDS... it's different for everybody); but pretty handy. Means you don't have to break out the liquid kits everytime you need a quick reading.

Anyway, I'd think your water cloudiness is probably related to the fish food incident; the bacteria in the tank go a little nuts when there's extra food available. It should calm down by itself once the food source is depleted. Sometimes you can have oxygen issues though (bacterial blooms can deplete the O2 in the water... it's a big problem with serious blooms); so keep an eye on that.


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

Livyding - thanks for the tip! I'll look into it.

Rockman - why, I do have baking soda! I used some in my short-lived snail "tank". I'll look up how to dose it. Thanks for the tip!
And the TDS meter looks like a good investment... Though now that both my tanks are relatively stable (I cycled the spec using the filter and other tidbits from my eclipse - worked like a charm, could barely believe it), I'm guessing I don't have to test *all* the parameters *all* the time? Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all looking consistently good, so I could probably back off a bit and just continue to keep an eye on pH, GH and KH while I figure out the dosing of my various buffers? Of course I would still do a comprehensive test once in a while just to be sure...

As for cloudiness - still working on it, though it does seem marginally better now. Thanks for your insights -


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

UnderseaGal said:


> Rockman - why, I do have baking soda! I used some in my short-lived snail "tank". I'll look up how to dose it. Thanks for the tip!


And the TDS meter looks like a good investment... Though now that both my tanks are relatively stable (I cycled the spec using the filter and other tidbits from my eclipse - worked like a charm, could barely believe it), I'm guessing I don't have to test *all* the parameters *all* the time? Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all looking consistently good, so I could probably back off a bit and just continue to keep an eye on pH, GH and KH while I figure out the dosing of my various buffers? Of course I would still do a comprehensive test once in a while just to be sure...[/QUOTE]

That seems pretty reasonable. I never test ammonia and nitrites except when I suspect I might be having trouble. Nitrates I test every so often just to make sure I'm changing enough water. I do tend to keep track of GH, KH and pH on a fairly regular basis (although GH and KH can kinda sorta be replaced with a TDS meter... I do still recommend having the liquid kits... it's just a way to use them less often), since soft water tanks can be fiddly. Actually last weekend I went live with my internet-enabled aquarium monitor (less because I felt I needed to and more because I had some free time... eventually it will have more sensors and actually have a purpose).


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

Hey, that monitor is super cool!
Neat stuff.


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

Ugh. I just found some Kent pH buffer (I think it's the same as Alkaline) in my stuff.
The dosing process is mind-numbing! Blerg blerg.
I can't wait until I have this dialed in and I know exactly how much to add to the water changes...


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

UnderseaGal said:


> Hey, that monitor is super cool!
> Neat stuff.


Thanks. I'm being slightly irritating about it at the moment... I spent a good chunk of my weeking swearing at my computer while I did up the code for it; so I'm enjoying showing it off. It's much better on my end 'cause I also have graphs (courtesy of google charts I can plot the data in real time... I lack web hosting though so it's just for me). It's kind of fun though... there's lots of stuff you wouldn't otherwise see.



UnderseaGal said:


> Ugh. I just found some Kent pH buffer (I think it's the same as Alkaline) in my stuff.
> The dosing process is mind-numbing! Blerg blerg.
> I can't wait until I have this dialed in and I know exactly how much to add to the water changes...


I have no idea what Kent marine uses... they're pretty secretive about their ingredients list. It's probably not a phosphate buffer; so it too could be baking soda. Although sometimes they use carbonate salts instead of bicarbonate; which works, but it increases the pH more than you'd probably want (good for african cichlid tanks though).

Anyway... the key to dosing bicarb is to add small amounts of it at a time (technically, bicarb is only half a buffer as it lacks the acidic component. It raises pH; so watch that). As for the dosing, this guy has done up a simplified calculator to figure out how much bicarb to add (it makes a lot of assumptions in the math though; so it's not perfect. Consider it an approximation).


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

That's cool about the graphs. If you add all the parameters, I'd totally buy that gizmo. 

Rockman, you are a wealth of knowledge and of high quality resources - thanks for the link to the calculator, and for all the advice you generously contribute.  Very much appreciated!

I'm a bit paranoid about the water quality in my spec tank because 1) it's the smallest volume I've ever dealt with, and 2) my betta is the most gorgeous fish ever and I really want it to be happy and last a long time. I've been able to do a fair amount of knowledge transfer from what I've learned with the eclipse and the edge (and from the answers to the millions of questions I asked on here) but for some reason that tiny tank intimidates me.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

How is the cloudy water issue now?

I've had cloudy water issues in my tanks and drove myself nuts doing daily massive water changes (talk about labour intensive!) and in the end spent money on a UV sterilizer which cleared the water in a day or two. If it's a bacterial bloom like mine was (triggered by massive substrate disturbance) it is a most persistant life form.

If it isn't clearing up, ask on here if any one has one you could borrow. I'd lend you mine but I live in Kelowna!


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

greenfin - thanks for the tip. It seems to me that the cloudiness is slowly getting better (as in less cloudy), even though I've now decreased water changes to every 2-3 days. If it's not all cleared up by the end of the weekend I'll look into UV sterilizers. But don't they also kill the good bacteria?


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

I suppose UV's nuke everything that passes by, however, the good bacteria attach themselves to surfaces and do not really colonize the water column. I suppose some may float around but not many would get sucked into the UV (unlike the cloudy-water-causing critters that do colonize in the water column.) Very handy, these good bacteria habits!


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

Ah, I see! All makes sense now. 
Will look into this. I thought the tank was much better this morning (did a WC last night) but it depends on what angle you look at it from...


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Just my opinion. I have helped many people with cloudy water. Most of the time cloudy water is caused by not having a proper biological system setup. Sometimes its from over cleaning your filters or cleaning them in correctly. Too many fish for the system, not enough filtration etc..... or sometimes it just loving your tank to death. Adding water and doing water changes usually makes it worse. I helped a tattoo artist recently with thte same issue. He gave me a free tattoo 

A UV will kill green water, not cloudy water as far as I know. They arnt supposed to be run during a tanks cycling period because as mentioned some bacteria might get killed.


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

jbyoung00008, thanks for chiming in, and you may be on to something. A little while back I realized that my entire filter was quite "sludgy" - I think from a bout of treating ich and from the ADA dust - so I gave it a quick rinse (it was spewing dirty water back in the tank at every WC). Maybe I was too vigorous with my rinsing and I inadvertently got rid of some good bacteria? I was careful not to mess with the biomax too much but you never know.

As for too many fish, well I'm pretty sure that's the case.  Moving on...

What tattoo did you get?


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

I havnt seen how long the cloudy tank has been running? When was the filter mis hap? What filter is on the tank? How much bio media is in it? how often are you cleaning it?

We had a tank at my old work that was cloudy all the time. No matter what I did the cloudy water stayed. It was a pain to get rid of. Usually, like with the tattoo guy. I brought over some of my bio media and put that in his filter. I did a big water change 75%. Added some Stability and told him to keep adding it and the cloudy water was gone from that day forward. He had goldfish so I told him to go buy another filter. Its been almost a year. No more cloudy water  He also just recommended me to his tattoo artist friend who is also having trouble with a goldfish tank. So I might be getting another free tattoo. His goldfish are breeding but the babies keep dying. IMO understanding and growing good bacteria is key to a healthy tank. The more bio media the better. :

As for my Tattoo. I got my bestfriends name/foundation tattoo'd on my wrist. BLAKESTRONG it represents the blue bracelets we had made to support him and his family. He died April 25 2014 of colon cancer at the age of 32. In the end the cancer was every where. 500+ at his funeral. He was loved by many


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## UnderseaGal (Mar 4, 2014)

jbyoung00008 said:


> I havnt seen how long the cloudy tank has been running? When was the filter mis hap? What filter is on the tank? How much bio media is in it? how often are you cleaning it?


Tank's been running since March. The filter rinsing happened about 1.5-2 weeks ago, but the tank was already cloudy (I think), and did not get cloudier. The filter on the tank is the stock filter with the fluval edge - a sponge, a little bag of carbon, a little bag of biomax. I had never cleaned or replaced the biomax other than that one time I rinsed off the brown sludge. I replaced the carbon baggie once (ich) and the sponge once (but not at the same time).



jbyoung00008 said:


> We had a tank at my old work that was cloudy all the time. No matter what I did the cloudy water stayed. It was a pain to get rid of. Usually, like with the tattoo guy. I brought over some of my bio media and put that in his filter. I did a big water change 75%. Added some Stability and told him to keep adding it and the cloudy water was gone from that day forward. He had goldfish so I told him to go buy another filter. Its been almost a year. No more cloudy water  He also just recommended me to his tattoo artist friend who is also having trouble with a goldfish tank. So I might be getting another free tattoo. His goldfish are breeding but the babies keep dying. IMO understanding and growing good bacteria is key to a healthy tank. The more bio media the better.


Since reading your comment I have added some biomax beads. Adding some stability is also a good idea - I will do that.



jbyoung00008 said:


> As for my Tattoo. I got my bestfriends name/foundation tattoo'd on my wrist. BLAKESTRONG it represents the blue bracelets we had made to support him and his family. He died April 25 2014 of colon cancer at the age of 32. In the end the cancer was every where. 500+ at his funeral. He was loved by many


I'm really sorry about your friend. Sounds like a beautiful way to honour him. Cancer sucks.


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## werner.smit1 (Sep 10, 2014)

Hi..can anybody please tell me how much and how often must i add aquarium salt to my 300L tank


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

werner.smit1 said:


> Hi..can anybody please tell me how much and how often must i add aquarium salt to my 300L tank


Adding salt to an aquarium isn't as straight forward as it seems to be... Nevertheless, google says:
Frequently asked questions on using salt | Features | Practical Fishkeeping
If you intend to add salt to your freshwater tank, scroll down to "How do I calculate the correct dose to add?"


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