# Buyer Beware!



## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

I just want to warn people who are looking into getting a new pressurized CO2 system for their tank. I have always believed that you get what you pay for, and certain things I would much rather purchase new and pay a little extra then buying used from someone else for cheap. 

Last year I purchased a "Brand New" CO2 system from an LFS that will remain nameless for now. Now I'll take some blame here for not double checking myself, but I ASSUMED that going to a store and paying retail price for a CO2 tank would mean that I'd get a new tank. If not new at least i would expect it to have a new hydro test done before being sold. I was wrong. I just went to fill my tank for the first time since I bought it and I was told that they couldn't fill it because it needed the hydro test done (stamped 07). Well I don't care how much it costs to do the test, I don't feel that I should pay for it because I went to a store to buy a new system. If i wanted a used tank I would have bought a used tank, and avoided paying retail! 

So I went back to the store and after contacting the owner for advice, they agreed to give me another tank (empty) which was last tested in 08. So now I've got another year, but still I'm not satisfied because now I had to give up the nice brushed aluminum tank I bought for an ugly red steel tank and I'm still going to have to hydro test it within another year. 

Am I wrong here? 

Does it make sense that the LFS would sell me a used tank that wasn't hydrotested since 07? 
What incentive is there for someone to buy new? If i wanted a used tank that I would have to get hydro tested I would have just watched CL and our classified section till one came up. 

If you are in the market for a co2 system I have to recommend to buy a used tank because there is absolutely no reason to spend retail prices for a "new" one. 

Has anyone else had an experience like this? 

Does anyone know a store that actually sells new tanks?


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

thats crappy mike. i dont know much about these C02 tanks, but what i do know is, your NOT in the wrong. Never settle for less bro.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

That's a tough one for both parties. If the retailer has had that on the shelf for 5 years, they are losing money anyway. If you can get the retailer to refund the purchase, that's the route I would take. Good luck


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

beN said:


> thats crappy mike. i dont know much about these C02 tanks, but what i do know is, your NOT in the wrong. Never settle for less bro.


thanks ben, You know how it is, can't win them all... 


mdwflyer said:


> That's a tough one for both parties. If the retailer has had that on the shelf for 5 years, they are losing money anyway. If you can get the retailer to refund the purchase, that's the route I would take. Good luck


Ya it really is, I should have looked at the tank first and negotiated a hydro test or the cost of one out of the price or something along those lines. I have no interest in making anyone lose money, I just want a fair deal that's all. As it turns out, the retailer has a program they use with these tanks where you exchange your empty tank for a full one and just keep swapping tanks, they don't expect people to go and fill the tanks themselves. It has been mainly a communication error on both our parts, that has just caused some frustration for both sides I'm sure. I just figured I would make people aware of this so that no one has to get frustrated like I did.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

That's crap.They should pay for it and that's that.


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## liquid_krystale (Dec 13, 2011)

I can see both sides of the argument here. 

Either way, glad you guys were able to talk it out and at least understand where each other was coming from. Ultimately it comes down to asking the right questions upon purchase and not leaving anything up to assumption I guess. It's definitely not your fault but sometimes the consumer does have to take the initiative to protect themselves. 

I bought a tank recently from someone on craigslist, and I almost forgot to ask about the hydrotest. That's how I found about the tank swapping arrangement that many refill stations have. Till then I assumed automatically that you always are keeping the same tank when you go to refill.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

liquid_krystale said:


> I can see both sides of the argument here.
> 
> Either way, glad you guys were able to talk it out and at least understand where each other was coming from. Ultimately it comes down to asking the right questions upon purchase and not leaving anything up to assumption I guess. It's definitely not your fault but sometimes the consumer does have to take the initiative to protect themselves.
> 
> I bought a tank recently from someone on craigslist, and I almost forgot to ask about the hydrotest. That's how I found about the tank swapping arrangement that many refill stations have. Till then I assumed automatically that you always are keeping the same tank when you go to refill.


you can go to a place like DBC Marine in Richmond... they do Fire Extinguisher fills there... they will just take your tank and fill it, but if it isn't stamped within 5 years they will charge you to hydrotest it.


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

FYI..... Brand new tanks are NOT hydro tested. That is up to the customer, generally. Sometimes retailers will get tanks hydro-tested.

Respectfully,

Stuart


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Honestly, I think hydro-testing is just part of the ongoing expense. Whether it expires in 2 weeks or two years is irrelevant. You won't make the retailer pro-rate the price if it is less than 5 years left? If I hydro-test it as soon as I buy it, I am good for 5 years. If you got to choose of course get the one not expired.

I have picked up tank from wholesaler that already expired.

JMHO


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think that actually, if you buy a brand new tank, it won't be hydro-tested. The test is mandatory regardless if it's used or not, so if the vendor has it sitting on the shelf for 5 years, then the tested tank has to be tested anyway, as soon as it goes out the door. So it's just money wasted for them and you. I think the mistake made here was that the seller (LFS in this case) did not warn you about hydro testing.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

CRS Fan said:


> FYI..... Brand new tanks are NOT hydro tested. That is up to the customer, generally. Sometimes retailers will get tanks hydro-tested.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Stuart


a new tank has a date of manufacture stamped into it... the first hydro test is required 5 years from that date, then a new stamp is made somewhere on the case... that's my understanding of it anyway, please correct me if i'm wrong



gklaw said:


> Honestly, I think hydro-testing is just part of the ongoing expense. Whether it expires in 2 weeks or two years is irrelevant. You won't make the retailer pro-rate the price if it is less than 5 years left? If I hydro-test it as soon as I buy it, I am good for 5 years. If you got to choose of course get the one not expired.
> 
> I have picked up tank from wholesaler that already expired.
> 
> JMHO


Thanks man for your opinion, I agree that hydro testing is part of the cost of owning one of these tanks, I was just cheesed that even purchasing from a retailer you don't actually gain anything becasue you still have to test it. I could have saved plenty of cash by purchasing a used one from anyone and I would have been completely happy hydrotesting it, but the fact that I actually went and paid full retail for what I thought was a new tank bothered me. 


2wheelsx2 said:


> I think that actually, if you buy a brand new tank, it won't be hydro-tested. The test is mandatory regardless if it's used or not, so if the vendor has it sitting on the shelf for 5 years, then the tested tank has to be tested anyway, as soon as it goes out the door. So it's just money wasted for them and you. I think the mistake made here was that the seller (LFS in this case) did not warn you about hydro testing.


Like I said in response to Stuarts post, a new tank has the date of manufacture stamped into it. The first test isn't required until 5 years from that date. I was fully aware going in that tanks required hydrotesting but the whole point of going into a store to buy it was I figured I would not have to do it for the full 5 years.

I agree that it was a lack of communication between myself and the store that caused this issue in the first place, plus the fact that I didn't actually look close enough at the tank to begin with.


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

monkE said:


> a new tank has a date of manufacture stamped into it... the first hydro test is required 5 years from that date, then a new stamp is made somewhere on the case... that's my understanding of it anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong


I learned something new today, Mike. I've always bought my tanks used !

Respectfully,

Stuart


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Tanks come stamped at the factory. We just don't know how long they sat where


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

gklaw said:


> Tanks come stamped at the factory. We just don't know how long they sat where


That's right. The shop could have acquired it "new" after 4 years sitting in a warehouse.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

It's a good thing to watch for as my wholesaler has them sitting there and I can bet some of them have been sitting there for a long time. I see them in the same spot each time I go to the warehouse.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Captured Moments (Apr 22, 2010)

I bought all my Co2 tanks used.. I think what the store should have done is make you aware of the hydrotest date and explain your options to you before you bought a new tank.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> That's right. The shop could have acquired it "new" after 4 years sitting in a warehouse.


the store at my shop sells signal flares for boaters, these flairs have a 5 year expiry date and if we have old flares in our inventory then guess what, it's our responsibility, not our customers.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

monkE said:


> the store at my shop sells signal flares for boaters, these flairs have a 5 year expiry date and if we have old flares in our inventory then guess what, it's our responsibility, not our customers.


Maybe I'm confused, but I don't see how this is the same scenario. Are you saying that if your shop sells a flare in 2011 that was manufactured in 2007 and then the purchaser brings it back in 2012 (if it's unused) that your shop would exchange it for a new one because it expired in one year? So for flares, unless they are fired, you have to warranty them for perpetuity? To take the analogy a bit further, does your shop tell a buyer "hey don't buy this batch of flares as it's going expire in 3 years, because we have some new ones coming in which would be good for 5 years"? So your shop throws out all the flares in their inventory every year so that they are all good for 5 years?


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Maybe I'm confused, but I don't see how this is the same scenario. Are you saying that if your shop sells a flare in 2011 that was manufactured in 2007 and then the purchaser brings it back in 2012 (if it's unused) that your shop would exchange it for a new one because it expired in one year? So for flares, unless they are fired, you have to warranty them for perpetuity? To take the analogy a bit further, does your shop tell a buyer "hey don't buy this batch of flares as it's going expire in 3 years, because we have some new ones coming in which would be good for 5 years"? So your shop throws out all the flares in their inventory every year so that they are all good for 5 years?


Well our store isn't a huge part of our buisness so we don't have a ton of customers coming through all the time for flares, generally we sell them with a new boat purchase, so we can keep our inventory level quite low. We replace unsold flares each year so that we always have fresh ones.

I suppose it's like comparing apples and oranges but it still seems like the same idea to me.

That is just not how it is done at some shops I guess, but I don't think it's right to charge full retail price on a product that is essentially used or non-current.

I would like to point out that I am very happy with the way the store handled my complaint and only posted this as a means of making others aware so that they don't have any confusion when they purchase tanks.


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## dasling (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm new to investigating (and soon investing in) the CO2 market as well and I'm sure others have thought of this already but... wouldn't it make sense to go to someone like Praxair or another welding gas supply company for tanks, regulators, etc? It's what they specialize in and it wouldn't necessarily have the same mark-up as a pet store might. Just a thought.


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## liquid_krystale (Dec 13, 2011)

dasling said:


> I'm new to investigating (and soon investing in) the CO2 market as well and I'm sure others have thought of this already but... wouldn't it make sense to go to someone like Praxair or another welding gas supply company for tanks, regulators, etc? It's what they specialize in and it wouldn't necessarily have the same mark-up as a pet store might. Just a thought.


Actually, in my experience, industrial use regulators are quite a bit MORE expensive (esp dual stage, esp new) than those all-in-one pet store sourced CO2 reg and solenoid kits, but are of higher quality and durability. You can buy local, or like many people on here or other forums, buy on ebay, but the cheapest way is probably ebay. As for tanks, I've never seen a tank being sold by a pet store. Usually people get them at welding supply stores or online/craigslist.


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