# Losing Fish



## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

Tuesday morning I found one of my male guppies dead amongst the plants in my tank. This morning, sometime in the past two hours, I lost another one, my beautiful red neon. Neither fish showed any signs of being ill or "off".

I immediately tested the water and all my parameters are perfect. The only thing that's changed is that last weekend I added two chinese algae eaters.. then quickly realized they were not what I had intended to get, removed them within a couple days, and added two Otocinclus'.

So obviously, I'm suspecting that the new fish have introduced something into the environment, but what would kill my guppies without causing any symptoms of illness? The new fish don't appear sick either.

My second tank went through the same process of adding/switching fish. It houses my breeding guppies (one male and my pregnant female) so I'm worried about some kind of outbreak.


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## Sploosh (Nov 19, 2012)

How old were the guppies? I just lost one a couple weeks ago to old age that was only 8 months old, his brother is still kicking, although is near the end.
Are any of the other guppies showing odd breathing? 
What are the water parameters? Also temp & how many airstones?


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

I can't say for sure, as they're all LFS fish, but I've had them all for less than 3 months.
No odd breathing from anyone.
Params are 0-0-5
Temp is 77.5 degrees
No airstones in that tank, the bio-wheel filter creates plenty of water movement.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

With guppies, the #1 issue I've found is water being too soft. Can you check your GH/KH?


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Do you test the hardness? I'm sure I read somewhere recently that guppies prefer harder water. Also if 5 is the ph....that seems rather low. Not an expert but I think those could be part of the problem


Oops elle beat me to it lop


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

No, the pH is 8.6


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## Sploosh (Nov 19, 2012)

Just saw above post....

Parameters 0-0-5 - which is what - if ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, then looks good.
8.6 is a little high, probably not the problem though.
as elle mentioned - gh/kh parameters. 

I am actually raising my guppy tanks from pH7.0 to 7.5, gh6 to over 10, kh 3 to over 8 (as I was informed this is much better for the guppies)
I added extra airstones to my tank to ensure adequate oxydization (overstocked at 80 degrees)


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## sunshine_1965 (Aug 16, 2011)

Is that not ridiculously high PH for them. I keep mine in the mid 7's range. The ideal range is 7.0 to 8.1 so 7.6 would be great. You will have to slowly adjust this down over the next week or so. A drastic change could kill them all. Good luck with this issue.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

Everything I've read/been told is that a consistent pH is more important than the actual pH number. If I start messing with it, I know I will lose consistency, so I'd rather just stay away from doing that.


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## Tazzy_toon (Jul 25, 2011)

I was having lots of problems with my guppies until i started using a gh booster and also salt, most guppies/livebearers prefer a bit of salt.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

I just lost an Oto 

Adding salt is not an option as I have shrimp in the tanks.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

This is your male guppy tank right? With Amanos? They're brackish shrimp to begin with.


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## Sploosh (Nov 19, 2012)

I would definitely check your GH & KH levels - if either is too low it will also effect the shrimps.
Also if there is an imbalance (too much or not enough of either)
The ideal pH range for the otto's (and shrimps) is lower than guppies (I think), the high pH might be affecting them.

(I had issues with pH fluctuation until I found out about gh/kh levels and testing - now it's stable)

I just found this site (not sure which one I read months ago)
Aquarium Chemistry; Calcium, KH, GH, pH, Electrolytes, Magnesium, Mineral Ions, Cations
It goes fairly in-depth about it - has some good info about what KH is and does though.


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## Sploosh (Nov 19, 2012)

2wheelsx2 said:


> This is your male guppy tank right? With Amanos? They're brackish shrimp to begin with.


Amanos breed in brackish only (I think) - required to raise the young, although can live in freshwater as adults. (At least that's what I was told when I bought mine)
I think covertune is worried about the yellow shrimps.


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## sunshine_1965 (Aug 16, 2011)

covertune said:


> Everything I've read/been told is that a consistent pH is more important than the actual pH number. If I start messing with it, I know I will lose consistency, so I'd rather just stay away from doing that.


Are you saying that your tap water has a ph of 8.6? I cannot imagine you would buffer it to this level.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Sploosh said:


> Amanos breed in brackish only (I think) - required to raise the young, although can live in freshwater as adults. (At least that's what I was told when I bought mine)
> I think covertune is worried about the yellow shrimps.


No, they'll breed in fresh water. The larvae need a brackish stage to survive. When I had them they bred all the time, but nothing ever survived.

His sig says male guppies with otos and Amano shrimp. I don't know what species his "yellow shrimp" are without scientific names, but I've had salt with Cherry Shrimp no problems and I think they are both Neocaridina heteropoda so I really don't see the concern anyway.

The other method is to transfer all the fish to the tank with the Amanos and put salt in that, but I don't really think salt is going solve his problem if the fish are now all dying one by one.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

sunshine_1965 said:


> Are you saying that your tap water has a ph of 8.6? I cannot imagine you would buffer it to this level.


Yes, it's 8.6 straight out of the tap.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

sunshine_1965 said:


> Are you saying that your tap water has a ph of 8.6? I cannot imagine you would buffer it to this level.


He's in Salmon Arm. His hardness is likely way up there too.

P.S. sorry, I should say he/she since I don't know if the OP is male or female. No offense intended.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

Yikes.. the test kit for hardness is $45!! Definitely can't afford that.

Would hardness really cause the death of 3 fish in such a short period of time? All 3 have been in the tank for different amounts of time.


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## Sploosh (Nov 19, 2012)

2wheelsx2 said:


> No, they'll breed in fresh water. The larvae need a brackish stage to survive. When I had them they bred all the time, but nothing ever survived."


This is what I meant (sorry didn't use correct wording) Mine are always berried as well.



2wheelsx2 said:


> His sig says male guppies with otos and Amano shrimp. I don't know what species his "yellow shrimp" are without scientific names, but I've had salt with Cherry Shrimp no problems and I think they are both Neocaridina heteropoda so I really don't see the concern anyway.


Good to know


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## Sploosh (Nov 19, 2012)

covertune said:


> Yikes.. the test kit for hardness is $45!! Definitely can't afford that.


Oh, is their a local lfs to you? (to test for you)
(sorry if a stupid q)



covertune said:


> Would hardness really cause the death of 3 fish in such a short period of time? All 3 have been in the tank for different amounts of time.


This I'm not sure of - maybe someone else (probably) knows better than me?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

covertune said:


> Yikes.. the test kit for hardness is $45!! Definitely can't afford that.
> 
> Would hardness really cause the death of 3 fish in such a short period of time? All 3 have been in the tank for different amounts of time.


It could be if the change was drastic, but I don't think that's your case. Your tanks are 10 gallons so one dead fish can set off an ammonia spike that's difficult to manage. I'd do some water changes and see if that helps at all and make sure to use Prime, if you haven't been.

What hardness kit is $45? That's very pricey. This is $7: API GH/KH Freshwater Test Kit
If you have a PetSmart they should have that or the Hagen kits at similar prices. I haven't been to Salmon Arm in years, but my in-laws are in Vernon and I know there's a PetSmart in Kelowna.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

I was told that salt would be detrimental to my shrimp (the Yellows), and it's not good for plants either.

There's no ammonia spike, as I said, ammonia is 0. And I do dose with Prime and Stability with every water change.

No PetSmart around here. I'll see if the local LFS can test for me, but I'm not sure how soon I'll have a chance to do that.. tomorrow maybe.

The one remaining Oto in that tank is looking sluggish now and I'll be surprised if he's still alive when I get home from work.

Oh, and I'm a "she".


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

covertune said:


> I was told that salt would be detrimental to my shrimp (the Yellows), and it's not good for plants either.
> 
> There's no ammonia spike, as I said, ammonia is 0. And I do dose with Prime and Stability with every water change.
> 
> ...


As I said, no offense. I saw your name in the sig after a couple of posts. 

I have 5 planted tanks and have added varying amounts of salt to them when needed and yes, it's not great for them in great amounts over long periods of time, but short term and smaller amounts is fine.
Without symptoms on the dead fish (no white spots, not rotted fins, no red gills, no clamped fins, no velvet, pop eye, bladder function issues, etc.), and all parameters normal, and your shrimp fine, I am not sure what we can do to help.

I'm sure your water is very hard, as it is in Vernon...must be 6 to 7 degrees or hardness there.

Anyway, I hope your LFS has some success in helping you.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

You can add some salt, just not too much.
But it will not hurt to add like 1 teaspoon of salt to a 10 gallon. You should worry about not having a high GH than adding salt when shrimp is concerned. Dont add too much excel but adding salt is fine for your shrimp.
You can buy some equilibrium which is meant to increase GH for planted tanks. But it may take you a while to get them shipped to you so some aquarium salt should work for now if it is a hardness issue.
With your tap water, can you make a lot of bubbles easily when you use soap?


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## Nicole (Nov 21, 2011)

A hardness test kit for $45? That is very bizarre. I'm sure a store here can ship to you...


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

A Ph of 8.6 is concerning to me. Thats high. I dont even keep my African tank that high. I understand that your tap water is that high but if it was me thats where I would start aswell as testing your KH and GH. You can buy products like Seachem Acid Bufffer to help lower the Ph. Yes fish are adaptable but thats a big difference from guppies desired PH. I stoped stocking guppies in my tanks because they do seem to die out of no where. Otto cats are the same way although they are known to die of hunger. So feeding some zucchini periodically might help.

Next time you are in your LFS ask them what the water parameters are of their tanks. 

If a GH and KH testing kit is that expensive out your way than Im offering to ship one out to you at no extra charge of what they cost out here. Its xmas and I feel like doing something nice for someone. You have made a lot of posts over the past few months so I dont mind helping out another aquarist eager to learn. Pm me and we can work something out.


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

I have guppies in all but my African Tanks.

Female Guppies seem to die often after producing babies/fri.
I'm told this is because of the UV light they are raised under at the source (exporter)
I don't see the same die off in tanks raised local Guppies.

I try to keep my non African tanks around 7 PH.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

In another point of view. Maybe it's not your tank and the fish's weak genetic strain due to the constant interbreeding and stress the fish deals with through exportation and held in cramped tanks. They do have a short lifespan relative to other freshwater fish. If the neon is a neon tetra type; same thing. Since you're keeping fish in a 10 gallon fish tank, it doesn't provide for a lot of water volume and the water parameters can change drastically thus leading to complications to the fish (stressing the fish). Whether it's temperature drops, drastic changes in GH/KH, PH swings, spikes in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,....or even the chloramine/chlorine from the tap through water changes. With the little info provided and no pictures of the furnishings, I can only merely guess that the fish were stressed in one way or another.

Now, not sure if this is the same tank that you recently scored a good deal with but sometimes, smaller tanks do go through new tank/old tank cycling more frequent due to the fact that there's less water volume.

I'm certainly you'll find your tank's balance once you dial in with what works and doesn't work.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

jbyoung - much appreciate the offer! I'm actually heading to Calgary in a few days, so I expect I can find something much more reasonable while I'm there.

I haven't had any further loses and the Oto that was looking sluggish seems to have improved. I did a small water change yesterday (about 12%) and I'm just keeping my fingers crossed now.

This is my original 10g, the one that had the deaths.. flourite substrate, real plants, now home to just 3 male guppies, 1 Oto and 4 Amano shrimp

Tank #1

This is my newer 10g.. plain gravel, fake and real plants, home to two guppies, two Otos and 8 Yellow Shrimp

Tank #2


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## Sweetpea (Nov 7, 2011)

Hey there. I'm glad things are a bit more settled for you now. FYI, otocinclus are shoaling fish that need to be kept in a group for their sense of security etc. At some point if you figure out if this species is right for you, it may be good to increase your numbers. I think I've read a minimum of 6 in a tank is recommended. Good luck.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I like the placement of the rocks in tank#1. They are of different textures but look very harmony together. Those 2 rocks stacked on top of each other are quite cool. 
Sometimes fish just die it may have nothing to do with you.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

Another one gone, I think it happened yesterday, possibly the day before. It was another one of the Otos, but this time, in the other tank!


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## Foxtail (Mar 14, 2012)

How often are you doing your water changes? I dont know for sure but I feel that smaller tanks are far more vulnerable to spikes in different water perameters. My smallest tank is a 2.5 gallon and I change about 15% every 3 to 4 weeks. My 15 gallon(guppies) every 2 weeks and my bigger tanks, every week. Another thing is temp... A rapid temp change can also shock fish to death. How are your heaters? Usually there would be numerous deaths at the same time. The only other thing I can think of is parasites. I had calamanus worms in my guppy tank which was causing deaths. 

Sent via the Shining.


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## Julia (Apr 8, 2012)

I have tried Otos a couple times with no luck. They would slowly die over the following month.
Then I read how they harvest them ( by poisoning the water) and so to look for ones that have been in the store for a long time and have big fat bellies.
I found some at Mr. Pets and so far all 4 have survived a month. I hope to get more when I find them because they do like to hang out together.
Good luck.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

The Oto Affinis I got from Fantasy Aquatics have been doing very well and were plump when I got them.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

I came home from class tonight to find another of my male guppies near death.. He was extremely listless and resting in the substrate, unable to support himself in the water. I gently removed him and placed him in an ice bath. 

I'm going away for a couple of days and I'm afraid of what I might come home to.


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## Nicole (Nov 21, 2011)

See if you can get clove oil next time so the fish can pass away peacefully.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am sorry to hear that.
My own experiene with otos that I got from Chalres of Canadian Aquatic have been very positive. To me they are very hardy and easy to look after fish. We are lucky to have the kind of water which is soft and acidic. From reading your post it sounds like you have alkaline water (8.6) so may be your otos are just not used to your condition. If your otos is wild caught they would likley be used to a more acidic and soft envirnoment; if they are farm raised then it depends on the parameters of the source but likely in the 7.6 or under range?
I would try different things to see if I could fine the 'sweet spot" to keep the guppies alive if I were you. Maybe something is just a bit off with your set up. The test kit only test certain things. It could be other things. Have you tried to age your water? (use cold water and heat it up with an air stone over night in a bucket)
But then again it could just be the fish. Sometiems fish are just not healthy so they dont last no matter what you do. You may wnat to buy from another source to see what happens.
Again, sorry to hear what you have been through and I hope you will figure it out soon. Sounds like you look after your fish and really love them and I am sure you take good care of them. It is a learning curve and hopefully things will get better from here...


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Definately get that test kit when you get a chance. I will help with some of the confusion and questions you may have about your fish. Not to mention it will help keep your overall exerience in fish/aquarium keeping positive.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

Ok so... I guess I have a KH of 6, and GH of 7. Re-tested the pH in that tank and it's currently 8.2

My other Oto in the original tank is now dead, and another guppy is not likely to make it through the night.

I'm about ready to sell off everything I have and just get a nano shrimp tank.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

It sounds like the PH is too high for the otos. They need softer water. 

Sorry you're dealing with this! we had the same kind of issue with our guppies due to soft water and it sucked.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

covertune said:


> Tuesday morning I found one of my male guppies dead amongst the plants in my tank. This morning, sometime in the past two hours, I lost another one, my beautiful red neon. Neither fish showed any signs of being ill or "off".
> 
> I immediately tested the water and all my parameters are perfect.
> 
> So obviously, I'm suspecting that the new fish have introduced something into the environment, but what would kill my guppies without causing any symptoms of illness? .


Perfect water parameters mean 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and 5ish ppm of nitrates?
Comon team lets help her get this figured out. To me her gh and kh levels are acceptable. I was worried that it would possibly be well water with much higher levels. 
I don't have experience with guppies but my Otos seem to prefer more acidic water. Think she should lower her pH?
Try paraguard for parasites?


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't think the PH is that much of a problem, my 180gallon community tank has been sitting at 8.0 - 8.2 due to the rock in the tank I believe for almost a month now no ill affects on any of the oto's, rummynose tetra, cardinal tetra, glowlight tetra, assortment of bn pleco's and the 7 betta's in the tank. In fact everything looks rather happy.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

I'm using deductive reasoning based on the information you've provided from pictures and the other couple of threads you started.

Testing Alkalinity of your water source
I'm not sure what the PH is from the water in Salmon Arm so do a test of your tap water. Do a test of your tank water. This will see if there is a difference in water source or if something in your tank is leeching things that causes the water to turn alkaline. Your water source from the tap maybe alkaline (more than pH 7, which leads me to believe you get your water from a well source).

Rocks in your tank maybe raising pH even more
If your tap water is testing at around 7, give or take +/-0.4 (which means it'll range from 6.6 to 7.4, depending on the water source, well water or reservoir); then you can deduce that there is a high likelihood that some ornament or something is causing pH to increase even more to 8+. Looking at the picture you put up of your tank. My biggest suggestion right now is to *TAKE THOSE ROCKS OUT OF THE TANK*. I am quite certain that as gorgeous as those rocks are in your tank, that it's leaching material causing causing the water to go extreme alkaline (I'm not going into the specifics as I'm not a geologist). So each time you take water from the tap (with pH around 7) to do a water change, it shocks the fish because the fish is living in water that is pH 8+. A change of pH of 1.0 is a lot, in fish health terms. Then the fish has to gradually adapt to the increase in pH from 7 to 8+ after you refilled the tank with fresh water. So each time you're doing a water change, it's putting more undue stress on the fish. Probably would be a better choice not to water change but then you'll start choking and suffocating your fish with dirty water and also dealing with algae.....

In a 10 gallon tank, since there is little water volume, the water chemistry and parameters can change drastically. If I had the same size rock leaching minerals to cause the water to be alkaline, relatively, the pH in the 10 gallon tank would rise quickly than it would be in a 100 gallon tank. That's as far as i will go without divulging into more detailed water chemistry that at this point isn't needed. For a small tank less than 20 gallon, I wouldn't recommend putting any random rocks you picked up by the river UNLESS you are absolutely certain that rock will not leech minerals that causes alkaline water.

Fish Health
Remember, most of your tropical fish live in water that is less than 7 (which is acidic). One thing that fish from South America and South Asian fish get stressed from and will eventually deteriorate it's health from is a drastic change in water parameters and conditions. It really does stress them to death directly and indirectly through parasitic infection/or weakening of the immune system. Yes, fish will adapt to a slow change in pH but drastic changes and going to the extremes will test it's immune system. African cichlids would love to live in alkaline water

Remedies
First take out the rocks, this will limit the increase of alkalinity of the water. The guppies and even tropical fish can adapt to pH hovering around 7; that should be your target.

Words of Support in service of the forum
I wouldn't give up and sell it all off, this is all a simple working formula for fish keeping. You have a community of people here to support your tank's health. Don't make it frustrating when it's not suppose to be frustrating. Taking care of shrimps may also pose the same issues if you can't dial in on isolated the root of the issue. Even I spent 25 minutes of my life here typing all this information in hopes that it'll benefit your hobby experience and fish keeping expertise.

Good luck and just take those rocks out of the tank, your surviving fish and new future tropical fish you get will love you for that.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

The pH of the water, straight from the tap, is 8.2 and we are on city water, not a well.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

If the pH is 8.2 coming out of the tap, it really depends on what you want to do. Keep the pH as is or attempt to lower it to provide your fish with a more natural pH level. Just remember to be consistent. Ask your LFS what pH he has his water at. If he keeps the fish at a certain pH, if you want to keep your fish healthy, I would adhere to the same range in pH.

I'm not going to tax myself by typing a bunch of info out. I'm just going to say that increasing alkaline water increases the toxicity of the existing ammonia in the fish tank.

Further reference can be found here:

Properly Maintaining the pH in a Freshwater Aquarium | RateMyFishTank.com
Water pH
Optimum Freshwater pH

Good luck.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

I realize that the pH is high, but when I first started, through many many discussions, I was advised NOT to mess with the pH... now I'm being told I SHOULD mess with it!? Very confusing.

I really don't want to get into changing pH and GH and all of that.. I just want a basic, simple set-up. I'm also not convinced that the water is the cause of the deaths, as I have two tanks with the same water/parameters, and only one tank experiencing this huge problem.

Could a parasite kill off all the fish without them showing any signs of having a parasite? And once all the fish have died, are there parasites than can survive in the environment and infect new fish?


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

With buffers a 2:1 Alkaline to Acid buffer pushes the water towards ~7.0pH. I think it might be worth trying a medium sized water change while adding buffers to drop the pH a bit. It's not hard to shift the pH down especially if you find that even the LFS are doing that for the sake of their fish. Just add buffers during water changes. I notice that my pH tends to rise to around 7.2-7.3, but I always buffer it down a bit during water changes down to 7.0.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

You don't tinker with the tank's pH if the fish are adapting well to the parameters; but since your fish are dying. There's been a ton of suggestions given to you, try them out before you worry about other things such as parasites. If you had parasites, more of least it would have infected both tanks since there's cross contamination in one way of another (nets, hands, siphons....) Look at both tanks, you say one tank has no issues, there's obvious something working in that tank. If you had a parasite, it would have wiped out all the fish within a week as the fish's immune system further weakens. Why I'm saying you may not have parasites is that your fish just suddenly died, no mention of white spots, red spots, white fuzz growing on certain parts, tails rotting......this all leads me to deduce it's stress either from pH shock or water issues.

if you don't want to tinker with the pH, then don't. But still doesn't justify buying a $10 bottle of medication to dose your tank to rid any parasites that may or may not exist in the tank. The fish can fight off the parasites if they have a strong immune system. If you provide the ideal conditions for the fish which mimics it's natural environment whether it be wild or the same conditions it's been bred in from the LFS, then they will survive and flourish.

Let's isolate the issue here before we start worrying over every other direction that may or may not be the cause. In sincerity, I'm providing you some suggestions as if this is my tank with expensive $50 catfish that I have.

Here's what I would do if this was happening to me:
-Ask or email the LFS where you bought the fish at what pH they keep their fish; and at least try to get your tank's pH at that same "approx." level.
-If the fish are dying in the tank that has the big white rocks, get rid of those rocks. Take them out.
-I'm guessing the tank with the driftwood is doing fine? Maybe perhaps put a piece of driftwood in the problem tank also (since driftwood helps lower pH)
-If you do water changes, do 10-15%, that way it minimizes the pH fluctuation
-Do the above things, and watch a week or two on the tank, if there's improvements or continual issues.

-As I can tell, you have issues with one tank. I can only speculate that it's the tank with the white rock. Take the white rock out from that tank, replace it with a piece of dritfwood; and we can deduce what may be the source of the fish's ill health.

Most importantly, guppies' lifespans are between 1.5 - 3 years. Need to take into consideration from the time they were born and the time it was kept through transport to the LFS until it reaches your tank. There may be a dominant male guppies that could have stressed the other guppies and otos.


*Size of tank: **10gallons*
*Type of lighting (include size of fixture): I'm guessing LEDs*
*Duration of photoperiod: I'm guessing 6-9 hrs*
*Type of substrate: Fluorite*
*Furnishing:** low lighting plants, white rocks*
*Temperature of your tank: ????*
*pH: 8.2*
*GH: 7*
*KH: 6*
*Nitrate levels: unknown*
*CO2 source: none injected, natural co2*
*How often do you do water change: ?????*
*How much water do you change: ????*
*Type of fish and how many in the tank: guppies, oto, yellow shrimps*
*What do you feed your fish and how often:**?????*
*How often do you feed your fish and how much: ???????*
*Do you have algae in the tank:** Diatoms/Brown algae...
*
*Description of your fish illness problem: (ex. I'm noticing these white spots on the fish, the eye of the fish has white fluffy stuff, the fin looks like it's rotting, the fish are always hiding, the fish won't eat, a long worm is coming out of the fish on the anal area)*

Referenced from: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/hospital-section-12/how-seek-advice-thread-fish-illness-related-issues-24781/

A good quick read:
*http://www.beverlyspet.com/fishtalk/Diagnosis and Treatment of Sick Fish.htm

*Hope you can take some of the info and try to dial in on getting the tank back to normal.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Stacey, dont quit. Your ph is perfectly fine. guppies like harder water. I would not do anything low or trying to lower your ph and kh.

I have a good friend in Salmon Arm. I will pm you his number. He is more than willing to help you out. In fact, he called me to remind me to give his number to you. He is very good with his fish.


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## covertune (Aug 10, 2012)

The last of my fish in that tank died the other day, about three days after I took out the large rocks and replaced them with a piece of driftwood and moss. Now it's home to just 4 Amano shrimp and 2 Yellow shrimp.


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