# apistogramma anyone??



## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

It's bit of rant...  I just want to promote apistogrammas to BCAers..

One thing I noticed is that not many people are into this wonderful fish. I regularly call/visit LFSs all over the lower mainland to find apistos.. their response is almost identical.. it is hard for them to bring apistos because not many people will buy apistogrammas.. 

My question is WHY??? don't get fooled by their dull color at LFSs... It is one of the most beautiful fishes when they are breeding. Their character is like dogs/cats. Watching a breeding pair is like watching someone's marriage.

Also, Apistogramma is not difficult fish to keep (even we can keep these  ). If you want some challenge, there are also some difficult Apistogrammas ( uaupesi, Elizabethae, Mendezi). 

You don't need a big tank to keep this. A 15G tank with some pencilfishes( which is like smaller version of denisonii barb to me) will be perfect for apistos.. 

So next time you see this wonderful fish, why don't you give it a try?  more people are interested in apsitogramma, more beautiful apsitogramma will be in LFSs.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

I guess the price tag sets a lot of people off of them. Remember that the actual aquatic hobbyists probably only represent like ~10-20% of the money flow that goes through fish stores. The remaining ~80-90% comes from people who just want to buy a bunch of pretty things and throw them in together (guppies are loved for this). They frequently buy new fish since they die and what not so $20.00 tiny fish that aren't colourful are not their cup of tea. I had some apistos and I really enjoyed having them. Unfortunately the most attractive apistos are even harder to find and even pricier so that's why I went with africans!


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

^+1, fish stores definitely get maybe up to 90-95% of their sales from just regular folk that aren't like us spending $20 on 3 zoa polyps 

They are definitely a beautiful fish! I have been considering getting a batch of 6 to cover the ground in my 70, but the cost has kinda put me off.


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## Otolith (Jan 24, 2012)

Both Canadian Aquatics and Fantasy generally have at least one variety in stock at any given time. Sure there can be a hefty price tag on them, but that can be said of many fish. In time as more and more people start to 'collect' them, prices may drop due to local breeding and greater demand to bring them in from overseas. A good example is discus, it will just take time.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I agree but I thought that more people are buying these the price drops as well..


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Otolith said:


> Both Canadian Aquatics and Fantasy generally have at least one variety in stock at any given time. Sure there can be a hefty price tag on them, but that can be said of many fish. In time as more and more people start to 'collect' them, prices may drop due to local breeding and greater demand to bring them in from overseas. A good example is discus, it will just take time.


I already got some from them  Fantasy is my " go to" apisto store.. they also have very rare dwarf cichlid " nannacara tenia" 
Aquarium west is another LFS that brings apisto time to time..

I set up 2 breeding tank and third one will be set soon.. it's for personal challenge but I also want to breed this for others to try.
As far as I understand, there is only one person who is working on apistos and I hope that he can breed his fishes soon so that I can get some as well lol


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Steve said:


> Unfortunately the most attractive apistos are even harder to find and even pricier so that's why I went with africans!


Yeah.. I currently have 5 kinds of apistos and IF I lose all of them, I may change 90G to African or discus tank as it's so harder to find apistos.

I know it's not also easy to find good africans but it seems to me that there are more african keepers than apisto keepers.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I like this kind of thread. Its good that someone who is enthusiastic about a family of fish tries to share their enthusiasm. Good for you.

Unfortunately, I'm well past my fw phase and deeply (financially, space-wise, time-wise, etc.) into my Bright-side phase (i.e. sw reefing).


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## indefine (Aug 10, 2013)

Jh, thanks for this thread. I recently stumbled upon apistos while at fantasy and have since become addicted to them and trying to find more also. By months end I will have about 5 of them as a start and the goal is to try my hand at breeding them too. 

sent from Samsung GS3


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

indefine! Awesome!! welcome to the club!!  it's very fun and sometimes painful journey  I still love it . canadian aquatic plans to get some apistos in and i just can't wait!!!!


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## indefine (Aug 10, 2013)

while we are on the topic, just thought I'd share a pic of one of my pairs chilling








Also, the beginnings of my new 75P amazon clearwater biotope being set up for these guys (sorry for the crappy phone pic)


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Very nice!!! I will post my apisto tank picture later


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

jhj0112 said:


> Yeah.. I currently have 5 kinds of apistos and IF I lose all of them, I may change 90G to African or discus tank as it's so harder to find apistos.
> 
> I know it's not also easy to find good africans but it seems to me that there are more african keepers than apisto keepers.


There are definitely a lot more African keepers, I'm one myself. But I refused to consider African cichlids for years because my only exposure to them was at the LFS. They might always have some but they're always the same species and they rarely keep good quality Africans so I assumed that all African cichlids were fairly colourless and aggressive so you couldn't have much else in the tank. The moral of the story is.... Don't judge a book by the poorly kept cover. I don't doubt for a second that Apisto's are great fish and because of this thread, I might just consider trying some out one day!


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

here's a quick snapshot of the apistogramma cautoides triple red from pat @ Canadian aquatics, got 3 pairs, 2 pairs at my office aquarium and 1 pair in my planted 120 gallon










thanks for looking!
Ray


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## Bobsidd (Dec 28, 2012)

I just got my first 4 apistogramma cacatuoides thanks, in large part, to this thread. What an amazing little fish. Thanks for drawing my attention to them. 

Cheers,
Rob


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

I love apistos too. I have kept borellii, Inka 50, panduro, and cacatuoides. I traded and sold most of them, and lost a few. I had the best success with them In my smaller planted tanks. I tried them in my tall 160 gallon and they were always out completed for food. I may try again though, Probably with Panduro.


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

borellis are awesome for small tank I had them in a 5 gallon planted before and they kept breeding with tons of fry.


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

long story short, I met a guy about 15 years ago, I believed he lived in maple ridge, I can't recall anymore.
but he had a living room downstairs that he converted to a fish room and he has pairs and pairs and pairs of apistogramma in every tank, about 30+ tanks in total.

have no idea what his name is or what happened to him anymore , but it was awesome seeing them,

all I remember is he was part of the local killi fish club, is that still around?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm so glad that this thread leads some BCAers to this wonderful fish.. As for a local breeder, I don't know anyone who breeds apisto in lower mainland.. However, there is one BCAer who is an expert on apistos.. He has tons of experience on apistos. 
I don't know if it's ok for me to leave his name on this thread( I hope he can comment on this thread  ). Apisto season must be coming back.. Clark's feed and seed called me for the special order lol


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

I love apistos, always have, as well as pelvicachromis, Dicrosus, nannacara, and crenicichla species are all awesome and personality packed species to keep. I doubt the price will ever drop much, given that most of these species have a lower fecundity and take longer to mature than most fish typically they take more effort to collect from the wild and properly ID.


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

apistogramma prices are generally cheaper than adult or wild discus. now those fish can get very expensive



Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Algae Beater said:


> I love apistos, always have, as well as pelvicachromis, Dicrosus, nannacara, and crenicichla species are all awesome and personality packed species to keep. I doubt the price will ever drop much, given that most of these species have a lower fecundity and take longer to mature than most fish typically they take more effort to collect from the wild and properly ID.


This is the man I was talking about! lol oneday! oneday!! I will try dicrosus! I had the chance to get the pair but I did not want to kill them.. not for beginners.. Awesome fish though.. I love nannacara as well.. the color change from dull brown to dark color is amazing!!


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

one of my previous pairs from april


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I just came back from Clark's feed and seed in Bellingham and here are a couple of apisto pictures that they have.. I ended up picking up Apisto Bitaeniata pair as Chantal was very firm about her choice.. 

They also have inka 50, nijsseni, panduro, aggie tefe blue, aggie triple red and double red, sp. pebas, trifasciata, cacatuiodes D red, orange( the one in picture).. All in pairs... it's bit expensive but their fish quality is awesome and they are actual pair( some of them actually were breeding in the display tank).

We were gonna pick Inka 50 pair but Chantal's been looking for bitaeniata pair for long time so.. Ahh I wish I have one more tank to get another apisto pair..  I stayed there for 45 mins lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

oh do tell me more about this Clark's feed and seed Chris. is it a fish store in Bellingham?

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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

rwong2k10 said:


> oh do tell me more about this Clark's feed and seed Chris. is it a fish store in Bellingham?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


Yeah.. It's located in Bellingham downtown. my wife likes bellingham d/t as there are other stores to see. it's like smaller version of robson st. in our d/t. they have my phone number and calls me whenever they order apistos. lol. really good apistos there.. price is from $39-$65 US (pair).. it seems expensive but if you order apisto on aquabid and ship it to bellingham, it's almost same price.. 
Also, it is hard to get a pair as almost all LFSs carry males only.

Oh! BTW I'm David


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Good choice on the Bitaeniata's they're showy and have tons of personality. I wish I still had mine around.


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

doh!!! sorry about the mix up

thx for the awesome info


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

rwong2k10 said:


> doh!!! sorry about the mix up
> 
> thx for the awesome info
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


no worries Ray!


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

Canon 7D with 100mm macro 2.8 L


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## Bobsidd (Dec 28, 2012)

Just found about 50 apisto fry in one of my tanks. What a thrill. First time breeding anything other than shrimp. Hopefully they grow up healthy and I can spread some apisto joy around Greater Vancouver.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Bobsidd said:


> Just found about 50 apisto fry in one of my tanks. What a thrill. First time breeding anything other than shrimp. Hopefully they grow up healthy and I can spread some apisto joy around Greater Vancouver.


congrats!!! what kind of apisto you got?? pics please!!


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

well!! I just want to see if any apisto keeprs in BCA have been successful breeding/raising fry? (except algea beater! I know you are the master of apistos  )


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## Bobsidd (Dec 28, 2012)

Breeding - Yes, tons!
Raising - No, not yet. Too many predators. Would be interested in how to do it though.



jhj0112 said:


> well!! I just want to see if any apisto keeprs in BCA have been successful breeding/raising fry? (except algea beater! I know you are the master of apistos  )


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

this is what I learned from other people.. gotta have BBS to feed fry. no other fishes except pencilfish. raise them with a mother... 
I have success spawning on few species but never had fry... i have better luck with BNPs and CBSs.. lol what kind of apisto do you have?


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## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

Here's a question for you serious apisto guys. Every time I search a species I haven't heard of before, I get a result in the image searches that lead me to pages like this:

http://aqua.c1ub.net/forum/lite.php?topic=124694.720

I've kept several species over the years and seen them for sale often, but never seen them looking like those pictured on that (Hebrew?) site. What's their trick? Is it lighting, camerawork and photoshop? Superior strains? Meticulous breeding/raising programs?


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I get them from time to time. Right now I have autalaupa . Sunshine apisto. One pair left. The couple guys I talked to who bred them said they had their ph down to about 3. 
Apistos are slow movers at lfs and you have to buy a bag lot. 
http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_atahualpa.php


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## Bobsidd (Dec 28, 2012)

jhj0112 said:


> this is what I learned from other people.. gotta have BBS to feed fry. no other fishes except pencilfish. raise them with a mother...
> I have success spawning on few species but never had fry... i have better luck with BNPs and CBSs.. lol what kind of apisto do you have?


I have apistogramma cacatuoides (double reds). 3 girls and 1 bruiser of a boy. The girls are all still young. They are housed with 2 albino BNPs and a handful of neon tetras. I'll be rehousing the tetras soon. I have had 4 or 5 successful spawns and fry surviving for about a week, but they die or get gobbled up before they get large enough to defend themselves. Not sure if it is the tetras or the other apistos snacking on them, or if there are some issues with the water chemistry.

They are such a beautiful, personality-filled fish. I love them!


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Bobsidd said:


> I have apistogramma cacatuoides (double reds). 3 girls and 1 bruiser of a boy. The girls are all still young. They are housed with 2 albino BNPs and a handful of neon tetras. I'll be rehousing the tetras soon. I have had 4 or 5 successful spawns and fry surviving for about a week, but they die or get gobbled up before they get large enough to defend themselves. Not sure if it is the tetras or the other apistos snacking on them, or if there are some issues with the water chemistry.
> 
> They are such a beautiful, personality-filled fish. I love them!


You are so right about apistos!! I and Chantal(my 8 yrs old daughter) are so addicted to apistos.. Apisto Bitaeniata tank is in her room and she does all water change/cleaning/feeding.. you should try charles' panduro one day!! panduros are awesome as well!


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

April said:


> I get them from time to time. Right now I have autalaupa . Sunshine apisto. One pair left. The couple guys I talked to who bred them said they had their ph down to about 3.
> Apistos are slow movers at lfs and you have to buy a bag lot.
> Apistogramma atahualpa


We will visit you soon April  My girl was sick for few days so could not go anywhere. (besides we live in cloverdale so it's hard for us to visit LFS over the bridge  )

Ahhh!! apisto season is here and I want to set up one more apisto tank!! lol


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Both the diamante and panduro are doing quite well. Since then, more of them are coloring up. Must come and see to appreciate them.


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## peppy2013 (Feb 19, 2013)

Very addictive little fish  can't just have one type lol gotta have a whole collection :bigsmile:


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

it is really cool fish!!  I'm now down to one 1 apisto tank. Currently working on Panduros.. Really difficult for me to get them spawned... I will probably get more ( male chased newly added famale and killed himself) until i get a bonded pair. How about you?? any new apistos.. I was down in Bellingham not long ago but could not find good apistos.. it's getting more difficult to get nice apistos..


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## peppy2013 (Feb 19, 2013)

I lost my pair of Aggies a while back and haven't been able to get my hands on any since. Becoming very hard to find indeed


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear that... I also lost Uaupesi pair after 6 months of trying..( nitrate spike.. turned out it was my filter). it's too bad that less and less people are getting apistos... it's kinda discouraging to keep apistos.. I had upto 3 apisto tanks at one point.. I lost them all when I tried to alter PH... ( stupid me lesson learned). shut down 2 tanks as per my girl wants to convert them to saltwater tank..


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi moms right now but I'm going to try order some for next week. If you come be sure to introduce yourself. Forum names, real na,es,,,gets all comfusing. Lol


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

please let me know what kind of apistos and when/if it's coming  if you see a tall asian guy with 1(possibly 2) young girl/s holding hands, that will be me lol..


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## peppy2013 (Feb 19, 2013)

And be sure to post lots n lots of pictures of all the great finds


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## cgjedi (Nov 11, 2013)

Any updates on Apistos and a good source these days? I am interested in getting some but don't know which species are available and who from.


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## Lutefisk (Jun 29, 2014)

If you're interested in cross-border fish trips, Clark Feed & Seed in Bellingham had a couple kinds of _cacatuoides_ and some _agassizii_ as of about a week ago.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I was so excited about the boxing day deal that I missed this.. it is really difficult to find apistos locally. If you want to get a pair, you will pretty much have to import from US or Asia.. I got my apistos from clark feed & seed. you can also order on-line from us breeders, then ship it to UPS stores in blaine or bellingham and cross the border. I prefer getting them from clark as transfer time is less..


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## cgjedi (Nov 11, 2013)

do you need any type of paperwork to import across the border? What do you tell the border guards?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

not really! apisto is excepted from the permit because it's not invasive species. All I did was to ask the store to write scientific name of the fish on the bag and the receipt.. I have not had any problem so far.. check it with them though

Oh! I just noticed that aquarium's west will bring some agassizi on Jan 5th..


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## indefine (Aug 10, 2013)

was at AqWest yesterday and they do indeed still have some agassizi, about 12-15 iirc. but a couple of them did not look very healthy, not sure if something was spreading in that tank, so look and choose carefully if u go for these.


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## Hammer (Apr 22, 2010)

Interested in SA dwarfs, what do you do for your water? I used to hear about peat filtering a lot. My ph is about 7.6


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## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

With careful acclimatization you should be fine at 7.6 unless the fish you're getting are newly imported wilds or something that may be particularly sensitive. Many of the ones you find locally are commercially bred.


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## Hammer (Apr 22, 2010)

DBAM, 
Thanks, 

For acclimatization, do you mean - just be slow and careful with how long I float the bag. Normally, I float the bag about 10-15 minutes, then mix a little but of tank water in, wait, wait, little but more tanks water in, then net the fish out of the bag and put it in the tank. I don't just pour the fish and bag water in. Does anyone use peat moss for Apistos?? My Ph has dropped now to around 7.2/7.4 and GH is about 3 degrees and KH is anout 4 degrees. Both quite low. Funny, I've kept some pretty funky stuff but have always been a bit intimidated by apistos adn other SA dwarfs, always wanted them...but never got them. I spent the first 25 yeas of my life in the Interior with hard alkaline water. I have been on the coast for 18 years and I think I might be ready.


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## maximusfish (Sep 2, 2014)

Apisto cacatuoides are easy. I am a beginner and mine have spawned twice, first fry batch disappeared while I was on holiday in Nov, but this second batch has two fry that are getting quite big now. Also supposed to be one of the few apistos that do ok between 6.5 and 8 ph, so quite tolerant. Mine spawned when the ph was 7.6 due to the 3d background (now removed).

I know quite a few people keep pygmy cory with their apistos, seemed like a good idea so I got lots, but I only have a few left now. They slowly disappeared, no bodies either in or out of the water.


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## indefine (Aug 10, 2013)

Maybe i will try this apisto fan thread. Anyone have any A.Cacatuoides females on offer? I'm in need of about 3 or so.


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## Daryl (Jun 1, 2010)

I am excited about the prospect of these newly discovered Apisots, Apistogramma kullandari, making their way into the hobby.
The largest apistos ever found with specimens exceeding 3".

http://http://www.pfeil-verlag.de/04biol/pdf/ief25_3_06.pdf


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

maybe it's just me but that link is not working...


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## Passthesalt (Dec 11, 2011)

Doesn't work for me either.
I've got 4 Apisto cockatoos (sp) and I think that the alfa male is just not happy with his choices of mates (maybe they're all males too but i don't think so). It will be too hard to try to grab them out of the 65g what with all the plants and wood.
I do have a 10g waiting for some apistos though 
Any available or coming up soon?


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## Lutefisk (Jun 29, 2014)

Noah's Pet Ark has a couple of female Apisto cacas at the moment.


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## indefine (Aug 10, 2013)

Lutefisk said:


> Noah's Pet Ark has a couple of female Apisto cacas at the moment.


Do you know how much Noah's is selling them for?


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## Lutefisk (Jun 29, 2014)

indefine said:


> Do you know how much Noah's is selling them for?


$20, I believe.


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## Dunbar Painting (Apr 24, 2010)

I've kept about 50species...this is how I got them;
Drive to Oregon visit the wet spot
Drive to Oregon. Visit David Soares
Order fish from Peru, sell fish I didn't want to get chance to bring in fish I did
Order from below water
Scour every lfs

By the time fantasy and Canadian aquatics were around o was nearing end of my legacy 40+ tanks

BTW this was all between ages 16 to 25


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## rich16 (Mar 25, 2011)

Love apistos, and plan on setting up a tank for them. Got a couple of cacatuoides from Canadian Aquatics a couple years ago...great little fish with tons of personality!


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## rhennessey (Jul 25, 2014)

Yes, they're great little fish lots of personality and not tank busters! if you want to get back into Apistos i have some cacatuoides fry i am growing out.


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## ApistoHead (Dec 10, 2015)

I used to breed cacatuoids when I lived in Calgary. Now that I live I the okanagan I want to get back into breeding them again. Anyone know of a place to buy or a close by breeder to get some from?


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## ApistoHead (Dec 10, 2015)

Oh I had one male with 3 females in a 90 community tank. He had all the females on a timed cycle, so while one was walking fry another was guarding her eggs and he was courting the last one. Very cool to watch.


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## Plants'n'cichlids (Oct 13, 2012)

I've seen some at the Purple Seahorse in Kelowna before, the prices weren't great though. That's the only place I know in the interior that isn't Petsmart though. Maybe someone else knows better.
Cheers.


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## couch (Apr 22, 2010)

Fish Addicts in Langley has tons of Apistos at least 8 different varieties including breeding pairs.


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## lisaW. (May 8, 2010)

Man, i used to breed Apistos, just the triple reds, and they were so much fun. Then i had kids and got out of fish (water changes and babies don't go hand in hand...or they do but it's a disaster), but now my oldest is 7 and i just finished setting up a little 20g for them, and im once again hooked and dreaming having my own tank to "play" with. And in this dream, when i finish setting up my planted aquarium with coralife t5 lighting, i would pick a pair of apistos to inhabit it! 

A lot of people are talking about breeding but not having much success with the raising of the fry. I always found mine hatched fine, but i found the parents ate them slowly and by about day 7 they were gone. I also found them tricky to suck up and keep in a breeding net because they were so tiny! Brine shrimp were a pain to breed and i wished for something i could just buy for them. Ah well. There's my two cents.


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## lisaW. (May 8, 2010)

Triple Red








my 90 gallon setup for my apistos


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## khiyasu (Jan 12, 2016)

Anyone have any luck with finding the cacatuoides triple reds?


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## lisaW. (May 8, 2010)

Fish Addicts in Langley has some but no tipple red. Best ones i ever saw, and the ones i had came from Charles. Maybe ask him?


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