# External Filters, some more questions... (sorry!)



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

I decided to create a new thread for this as my other one was getting quite long with alot that has already been decided, I hope you don't mind, please merge if its a problem.

Ok so I went with the Osaka 155L, it comes in next week, it looks like this:
Mr.Pet's

I was discussing filtration a bit thanks to some very helpful individuals, trying to wrap my head around the concepts of flow, GPH, bypass etc. I think I now have a pretty good idea so I have narrowed my filter choices down to 3, and was hoping more knowlegable and experienced than I might be able to add to my list of pros and cons.

Fluval 305 - $80
CONS
-leak prone more than others, is this accurate? or internet myth? I go away alot so this would be a major concern for me. I have heard its avoidable by replacing the O-Rings every year, and using some vaseline. How big of a problem is this? I hope I don't ignite an argument with this question!
-pain for maintenance and to open up.
PROS
-cheap, LFS has offered it to me for $80 new because I bought my tank there
-Tank is also fluval brand, I don't know if this is any kind of benefit to have the same bran filter/tank.
-nice quality hose attachment to make sure input/outputs stay put no matter what, I tend to be careless, and also have a young and curious 3 year old so this was important to me.

Rena XP3 - $125
CONS
-ugly blue/grey input tubes, what the heck were they thinking? this would stick out like a sore thumb on a black fluorite sand substrate and black background, unfortuneatly athetics are important in this setup, so this is a major con for me.
PROS
-can integrate a heater unit with it so one less item in the tank.
-seems to have a good track record for reliability.

Eheim ProII 2126 with media $254
CONS
-pricier @ $178
-ugly green tubing, can someone confirm they use the green intake in the tank as well or is it black? I was hoping the tubing was only green
-no media comes with
-less flow than others
PROS
-eheim seems to be the leader in reliability from reading reviews
-integrated heater which comes with the unit.
-quality construction

As is, if the intake/outake tubing is black on the Eheim pro2 2126 I would probly lean that way, its unfortunate, the XP3 is also a very nice filter and would save some $$$$, I just cannot get over how much that blue/grey tubing would stick out in my tank, is this replaceable? anything else I should know about these filters?

Value wise Fluval seems like a great deal, especially with the hose attachment system and my household, however if its a common occurance in these to leak more than others, its a deal breaker, I don't mind if the maintenance is a little harder, but don't want 40 gallon on the floor!


----------



## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

It seems like your main con of the systems, is the colour of the intake and output. You can spray paint these accessories with Krylon Fusion for Plastic . I've done this with Aquaclear intakes and Fluval spraybars with good results. After spray painting you will need to cure the paint for 7 days before it is fish safe. Reefers also use this paint for painting PVC in their tanks.

I like Fluvals (never had one leak from new). After using for 1-1/2 years of use I put one in dry storage and the O-ring lealed when I put it back in use. I replaced the O-Ring and it has worked fine since. Please note I have only used the 105 and 205 units with only the one small problem. I have used Eheim Eccos and I really like them but these units are a slow path filter and the circulation is limited. If it were me, I would go with the Eheim 2126 option.

I Hope this helps,

Stuart


----------



## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

i have a fluval 303 and as long as you use vaseline it seems to not leak from the main compartment.. sometimes i gets some leaking from the tube connections so i always have the canister in a bucket, also the fluval seems to be louder then the rena

My rena xp4 tho is great.. I find it quiet and yea i would just paint the intake and output tubes


----------



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

thanks for the feedback, I like the fluval filters, just the leaking reports do worry me, being in the basement, and myself going out of town alot, I have disaster scenarios swirling around in my head, but I also know its easy for things to snowball on the internet, and it can get a bad name unfairly.

Would you guys invest the extra $125 into the eheim pro? It saves me having to buy a heater which is not much, but other than that is it really giving me that much more reliability for the extra money? $125 is not much over an aquarium life, but at the same time I want to be sure I am getting value for the extra spent.

And thanks for the paint link, never thought about that..... The XP3 lost alot of points with me with the colors they chose for the intakes and such, so this brings it right back up to the top. Its a tough choice!


----------



## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

personally i'd get the eheim, i've got an ecco and have no issues with it, the only cons for them as far as im concerned is it can sometimes be tricky to find stores with the filter media in stock, so stock up when you find it. and one PRO that you missed is they are the quietest filters.
when i went to IPU the salesman said not to worry about the lower flow rate of the eheims because they have more efficient bio filtration which makes up for that. he showed me one in the store that had been running for 11 years and that pretty much sold me. (and the fact that its german made and not made in china)
and yes both the tubes are green


----------



## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

well remember to take advantage of online deals if you are not in a rush.. I used pets and pond for the xp4.. but i think you'll have to get eheim from big als (and use the code for the 15%off!!)... seems way cheaper then buying from a LFS... pets and pond is faster shipping tho and has a higher amount for free freight


----------



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

yeah the Eheim 2126 is $299 with media included which is on sale already, regular priced $449, then I get another 15% off which brings it down to $250 with all the media, so it seems like a pretty good buy. The 2026 version without heater is on sale for $199 with 15% off then I could always get an inline heater, so both these seem to be good buys, but they are still more than the XP3, and much more that what I can get the Fluval 305 for, but like I mentioned I don't mind spending a bit extra now, as this aquarium will be with me for a while, as long as I get value back over the long term.


----------



## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

I swear by the xp3, had it for almost 2 years and it runs silent, only had to take out the micro filtration pad to have constant flow, found it a bit easier to clean than the Fluvals.


----------



## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

TCR said:


> well remember to take advantage of online deals if you are not in a rush.. I used pets and pond for the xp4.. but i think you'll have to get eheim from big als (and use the code for the 15%off!!)... seems way cheaper then buying from a LFS... pets and pond is faster shipping tho and has a higher amount for free freight


the last 3 times i went to big als they said they stopped doing that 15% discount for bca members years ago
whats the trick to getting it?


----------



## target (Apr 21, 2010)

Type BCAQUARIA into the coupon box.


----------



## jobber (May 14, 2010)

I've ordered from big al's and got the 15% discount. And I just made my order last week and will arrive thursday.


----------



## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

i havent been ordering online i mean when you go to the IPU store, did they stop doing it when ipu took over from big als?


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The Eheim Pro II's come with the intake and outlet kits which are grey and black. But those Pro II's are discontinued. They have 2 main issues: The main gasket wears out and causes a leak (about every 2 - 3 years) and the main double tap can crack if you do a lot of work on the filter (which I do). The new Pro III's have addressed those 2 issues as far as I know. If I were you I would look at a 2075.


----------



## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

i think IPU is diff from big als... big als is ok to order from and of course online is gonna be a lot cheaper then buying from in a store


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

IPU is an independent. Big Al's is a chain. Essentially, Grant de-franchised the stores and made them IPU.


----------



## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

not to hijack the thread but whats the diff between the normal eheim and the ecco's?


----------



## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> IPU is an independent. Big Al's is a chain. Essentially, Grant de-franchised the stores and made them IPU.


any way to get that 15% discount?


----------



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> The Eheim Pro II's come with the intake and outlet kits which are grey and black. But those Pro II's are discontinued. They have 2 main issues: The main gasket wears out and causes a leak (about every 2 - 3 years) and the main double tap can crack if you do a lot of work on the filter (which I do). The new Pro III's have addressed those 2 issues as far as I know. If I were you I would look at a 2075.


Thanks, the 2075 is a nice unit as well, $249 is about what I was looking at with the integrated heater, and I definetly don't want a unit that is prone to leaks, thank you again! are the intakes also grey/black? I am going out tonight, a friend of mine a town over has an XP3 running, so its always nice to see these things in person.

Does anyone know with Big als price protection if they match the price, as well as do the 15% off still?


----------



## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I would send them an e mail

i got some quotes once from petsandpond and it was more then 15% off big als.. They did the price match and gave me a 5% discount... That was before I was a BCA member

never hurts to ask tho


----------



## gimlid (Apr 23, 2010)

Rena just cant be beaten for power and reliability. The grey pipes always agreed with me. They are almost a non colour in my tanks.
The versatility of the media baskets is a real plus for experimenting with different stuff.
FYI the xp3 and xp4 are only 30$ difference at King ed with at least 30% higher gph on the xp4 and a throttling valve on the return pipe you really cant go wrong.
Performance and reliability always over appearance. thats why I drive a Subaru!!!


----------



## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Big als said they will price match plus give additional 5% off. But WILL NOT honour the 15% bcaquaria discount.

Good luck with the decision process.

I ended up going with an xp2.

We should set up a poll to see what type of canister filters and or canister filter brands bcaquaria members use. Then you can contrast between popularity. Anyone know how to set polls up on a new thread?


----------



## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

i have a fluval and a rena


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

summit said:


> Thanks, the 2075 is a nice unit as well, $249 is about what I was looking at with the integrated heater, and I definetly don't want a unit that is prone to leaks, thank you again! are the intakes also grey/black? I am going out tonight, a friend of mine a town over has an XP3 running, so its always nice to see these things in person.
> 
> Does anyone know with Big als price protection if they match the price, as well as do the 15% off still?


Most places will do a price match, but you won't be able to ask for the discount after that (for fairly obvious reasons). I would actually look at a Hydor inline heater instead of an all-in one. That way if something breaks, you still have the other. I think the 2075 did come with the grey intake and outlet kits, but not sure if they still do, as I understand they are also no longer made. I am direct plumbing my 2078 into my tank so won't be using any of the Eheim stuff, so I didn't care that they are Shrek green.


----------



## target (Apr 21, 2010)

Eheim 2075 and a hydor inline heater is what I am going with for my 90g. Also will be direct plumbed, nothing inside the tank except a black strainer and locline return.


----------



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

So this might be an incredibly stupid idea, so bear with me, I don't know if it would be safe or not. I was thinking last night, my main concern is having the unit leak while away creating a disaster, could I solve this by simply having the filter in a plastic container, with a GFCI powerbar in the plastic container with the filter? My thinking is if the filter started to leak, as soon as some moisture hit that GFCI powerbar it should cut the power, stopping the pump/vacuum and averting a flood.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...I%2BPower%2BBar%252C%2B4-Outlet.jsp?locale=en

Obviously my only main concern is the fact that it will not work that way, and I will electrocute myself in the event of a leak, I am not too familiar with the GFCI powerbars, or how they work, in my head water and electicity is a big no no obviously, but I have also been told the GFCI powerbars are built specifically for situations where they might get wet.

Any other more obvious, safe ways I am overlooking for cutting power to the pump in the event of a leak as a back up safety feature? Or am I just being overly paranoid about a leaking filter?


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't know how you could prevent a flood that way, as the siphon works by gravity and the vacuum created by "pushing" the water up. If there is a leak, even if there is a power outage, it can drain your tank until the siphon breaks. Many people I know use a plastic tub around the canister to catch the odd leak, but realistically, most leaks are pretty gradual when the filter is running because the suction created when the filter is running prevents most places from leaking. The exception would be if the container itself was cracked, or somewhere on the outlet. 

The leak won't be catastrophic. You'll see a little leak growing to a big leak slowly. So unless you're away for weeks at a time, you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

I totally back this comment up.

You shouldn't worry too much about it. It will start as a minor trickle anyways...and the probability is lower depending on what filter you get. No filter is bulletproof, its all about the percentage of filters that leak during a certain period of time. This is also related to the design of the filter itself.

Again, dont worry about it too much. You can just put the filter in a plastic bucket and maybe few years down the road, you will see some water in the bucket if the filter starts leaking.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I don't know how you could prevent a flood that way, as the siphon works by gravity and the vacuum created by "pushing" the water up. If there is a leak, even if there is a power outage, it can drain your tank until the siphon breaks. Many people I know use a plastic tub around the canister to catch the odd leak, but realistically, most leaks are pretty gradual when the filter is running because the suction created when the filter is running prevents most places from leaking. The exception would be if the container itself was cracked, or somewhere on the outlet.
> 
> The leak won't be catastrophic. You'll see a little leak growing to a big leak slowly. So unless you're away for weeks at a time, you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

oh I see, I thought cutting the power would stop the vacuum, well irregardless that makes me feel better, I have these images in my head of the filter blowing out, and 40 gallons on the floor in a matter of a few minutes, I think I need to stop worrying about things I know very little about! It was from reading all the reviews, people like to report the bad scenarios they have, but not as many people report the good it seems.


----------



## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

Buy Insurance as well, and if something goes wrong, make sure everything you have thats electronic happened to get wet so you get all new stuff


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

summit said:


> oh I see, I thought cutting the power would stop the vacuum, well irregardless that makes me feel better, I have these images in my head of the filter blowing out, and 40 gallons on the floor in a matter of a few minutes, I think I need to stop worrying about things I know very little about! It was from reading all the reviews, people like to report the bad scenarios they have, but not as many people report the good it seems.


Yup, the 99% of the population that don't have a problem are not going to start a thread that says hey my filter works great and has never leaked. So I wouldn't worry too much. As I said, I run 5 canisters, and one has leaked twice in the 5 years and it was the same filter (the 2028) due to design flaws, and hence they are no longer made.


----------



## jobber (May 14, 2010)

This is a good discussion on the canister filters. Go with the canister with the less bad reviews .


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

summit:
Just read your first post on awaiting delivery of a new Osaka 155. You will just love it - beautiful tank - makes a stunning, show/display tank ! 
I have one just like it - best-looking tank I've ever had!
Mine is a low-tech planted display tank with some juvie discus, a few neons & some corys.
Have had many tanks over the years, with many filters - several canisters - but have now sworn off them (canisters) - had a couple of disasters with leaks - the last one - can't remember the brand, but it was top of the line - big $ - leaked 40 gals of water from a 110 gal tank unto our hardwood floors - never again! 
Also, I find them too cumbersome, difficult to maintain, clean & monitor, even though they are 'out of the way' & quieter.
I use 2 - HOB Aquaclear 70's on my Osaka - with Purigen, foam & filter floss - crystal clear water at all times - with 70% w/c's every second day.
Would be very interested to know what you are planning to do with your Osaka - Display tank - what kind of livestock ?
If I can be of any help during your set-up, etc., please contact/pm me - would be happy to help any way I can.
Best of luck.


----------



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

thanks for your kind words, I feel I am in good hands here at bcaquaria, as I mentioned in another thread I owe a few rounds of beer to some of the members here already! its tough being newer to the hobby, and where to get the right information from, I tend to be a person that stresses over those things if you cannot tell! I hate to make wrong decisions! So I will definetly be in tough, its good to hear you enjoy yours.

It certainly is a nice tank, I think I will do something similar to what I had in my 8 gallon, as I really enjoy the inverts in the tank, so keeping to a nice school of caridnals and galaxy rasboras along with some various shrimp in a low light plant setup until I upgrade the lighting is what I am shooting for to start, I like bright color, if I happen to find some larger fish to get along with shrimp, or at least let them live for a few weeks I would be open to it, but so far I have not had much luck in finding tank mates to get along with inverts other than the ones I had first hand experience with.


----------



## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

cardinals are beautiful choice.. I love how they school and such and the brilliant colours


----------



## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

summit said:


> oh I see, I thought cutting the power would stop the vacuum, well irregardless that makes me feel better, I have these images in my head of the filter blowing out, and 40 gallons on the floor in a matter of a few minutes, I think I need to stop worrying about things I know very little about! It was from reading all the reviews, people like to report the bad scenarios they have, but not as many people report the good it seems.


Well you are right as the filter would loose its suction. I have one filter that leaks ONLY when I turn it OFF. The reason being that the water is pulled through your canister it is fed by the gravitational pull from the inlet line as well There is little or no pressure inside the canister inf act it would have a negative pressure ( this could for example cause air to come into the filter through a "barley sealed "" gasket in extrema cases ) when the filter is turned off you have weight ( gravitational pull ) from the water coming into the filter from both hoses....Thats why mine leaks 
Your best assurance to stop an excess of water siphoning out of your tank is to drill a hole in your intake tube an inch or 2 below the surface of of the water . This will break the siphon effect once the water drops to that point.(incase a filter fails or a hose lets go )
You will have to watch it when you do w/c's though . turn the filter off or plug the hole with some thing such as section of tubing sliced or a disposable ear plug.


----------



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

hey, what a great idea regarding the hole in the intake, I will do that, thanks! Do people typically keep their pumps running while doing water changes? With only ever using HOB, I always shut everything down during a water change.

And yes, cardinals were always my favorite, so much color, I only ever had 6 of them, I can only imagine what it will look like to have a school of 15-20, really I think they are my favorite, I wish they gre bigger as I like the fish with bright colors. I am still kicking around the idea of doing something completely different though like a black ghost knife fish, or an elephant nose, or something completely unique and friendly more so than the bright colors, and keep my 8 gallon going as a shrimp/cardinal tank.


----------



## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

summit said:


> hey, what a great idea regarding the hole in the intake, I will do that, thanks! Do people typically keep their pumps running while doing water changes? With only ever using HOB, I always shut everything down during a water change.
> 
> And yes, cardinals were always my favorite, so much color, I only ever had 6 of them, I can only imagine what it will look like to have a school of 15-20, really I think they are my favorite, I wish they gre bigger as I like the fish with bright colors. I am still kicking around the idea of doing something completely different though like a black ghost knife fish, or an elephant nose, or something completely unique and friendly more so than the bright colors, and keep my 8 gallon going as a shrimp/cardinal tank.


I usually have my filter running when I do the water change. The only time I turn it off would be when I do 80% water change etc (which is rare)


----------



## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

if u like color check out smiladons malawi vid linked on his posts
african cichlids are great for color, as are discus but they'll cost ya more


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

summit said:


> thanks for your kind words, I feel I am in good hands here at bcaquaria, as I mentioned in another thread I owe a few rounds of beer to some of the members here already! its tough being newer to the hobby, and where to get the right information from, I tend to be a person that stresses over those things if you cannot tell! I hate to make wrong decisions! So I will definetly be in tough, its good to hear you enjoy yours.
> 
> It certainly is a nice tank, I think I will do something similar to what I had in my 8 gallon, as I really enjoy the inverts in the tank, so keeping to a nice school of caridnals and galaxy rasboras along with some various shrimp in a low light plant setup until I upgrade the lighting is what I am shooting for to start, I like bright color, if I happen to find some larger fish to get along with shrimp, or at least let them live for a few weeks I would be open to it, but so far I have not had much luck in finding tank mates to get along with inverts other than the ones I had first hand experience with.


Wanted to mention -

As for light - you should be well satisfied with the T5 light set-up that comes with the tank - very bright, even down to the bottom of the 24" height.
Mine is just fine for good growth of many different plants.


----------

