# Ich... what can I do till I can get to the lfs?



## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

I was reading online that people have had success with garlic and ginger. Now I know it is not going to cure it but could it be used to to boost immunity until I can get to the store?

My stock is 3 adf, 3 1" bnp, 6 neon tetras, and an assassin snail. I have a 10 gal planted tank with no heater..

Thanks in advance.


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## mollyb (May 18, 2010)

raising the temperature to 85, and huge water changes will help. The intermediate stage of ich is called a tomite, they are free swimming and water changes should reduce their presence. 90% water change, every day. some have success with added salt, but i don't know the exact dose off the top of my head.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Garlic and ginger? I've heard garlic has some anti-parasitic effects; but never from a really reputable source. Probably won't have a big effect anyway. Ginger I've never heard being used.

If you've got some kind of uniodized table salt (kosher salt or similar) you can use that. Dosage is usually recommended to be about 0.02 to 0.2% (0.2 to 2 grams of salt per litre); I tend to go to the higher end of this range as I've not always had good results at low dosage. I always keep a thing of aquarium salt on hand for this purpose (you really want to get on top of Ich early).

As an aside, why no heater? The fish you have aren't super tolerant of normal room temperature (they can go down as far as 21 degrees; but that's about it). You'll probably need a heater to treat the ich anyway. Raising the temperature speeds up the life cycle of the parasite; so you don't have to treat as long (a week or so vs two or three weeks). Raising the temperature above 31 will start to interfere with the lifecycle of the parasite and can sometime cure an outbreak.


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

I like to have a UV filter I can move easily
i have used a few of the first ones here:
UV Aquarium Filter | eBay


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

I was able to get to the store today and was able to borrow a couple heaters working my way up. Only at 73. Will be going on till 2am (oh lawdy). I was told 89 if the fish seem able to handle it. I have stress guard so yeah. :3

Should I do the water changes once I get the temperature up to 86? Should I use the second heater to bring the water changing temp up?


Yeah I mean I read one post on a persons success with the ginger, and I do know it has many healing properties. 

I've had my tetras at least two years no heater and no issues. A lot went on with plants being moved and all that which is what makes me believe that is the cause.

I'm actually really thinking of getting a UV. I really want my mom and sister to carry on this tank when I move out.


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

Oh, and which UV would you recommend Mike?


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Increased heat worked for me for sure, along with medication, but ENSURE it's increased slowly, like anything else with aquariums.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Fishy_Addiction said:


> I was able to get to the store today and was able to borrow a couple heaters working my way up. Only at 73. Will be going on till 2am (oh lawdy). I was told 89 if the fish seem able to handle it. I have stress guard so yeah. :3
> 
> Should I do the water changes once I get the temperature up to 86? Should I use the second heater to bring the water changing temp up?
> 
> ...


Meds? I'd probably recommend at least using aquarium salt. Heat by itself can be a bit hit and miss. Salt plus heat works most of the time; although in some cases commercial medication will be necessary.

Water changes and UV are helpful; but not curative. I don't typically use either when dealing with ich.


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

My temps seem to be going well thus far. But when it should have been 75 it jumped from 74 to 76 but a few moments after went down to 75 again. I use a temperature gun as it is more accurate and I had it for my other animals.

I was told the salt could harm the plants.

If it isnt necessary, I like to avoid water changes. XD 
At least the UV has the ability to make the Pretty. Lol.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Even without meds, I'd recommend a water change. Flush the "left-overs". There's certainly no benefit for your tank by keeping the waste. Salts do\will have an impact on your plants, positive or negative, especially if they've never been introduced to added amounts of minerals, but I understand you added a stress coat, so perhaps you won't have to add anything extra for a natural remedy.

I don't know where your nearest drain\window is, but without any further stress on the inhabitants, crystal clear or not, I'd get some of the water\dead ich waste out.


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## outsider (Jan 13, 2015)

Heat is only there to speed up ich life cycle and you still need either med such as paraguard, ich-x and aquarium salt to kill the free roaming ich theronts. 

You can mix seachem metroplex with food and feed to your fish. Sicne ich feed from the fish, they will get metroplex through fish and die. Ich can only attach to stressed fish that lose it's slime coat. With slime coat med such as stressguard, paragaurd other fish should be free from ich.

I always add 1/2 tea spoon / gallon of aquarium salt to my tank and I didn't have ich problem until I bought new tank and didn't add salt to the tank water. Fish were stressed after i moved them as well.


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

Well I would still definafely vacuum the ground.

So would it not make more sense to do it after the 2 weeks?


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

I am still looking into paragaurd however for now I cannot get to Langley.


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## outsider (Jan 13, 2015)

The reason to vacumm the gravel is ich theronts can stay on the gravel or plants, to vacumm gravel daily to get rid any possible ich theronts that stay on the gravel. I didn't do that because I have fluval shrimp stratum as substrate instead gravel. Which is also why you have to treat the entire tank with med even after you remove the fish to qt tank and it was expensive to me because my main community tank is 45 gallon. A 250ml seachem paraguard only lasted me for a week during treatment because each dosage med only last for 24 hours and I end up just add aquarium salt back in. Other than the 2 sick galaxy rasbora I don't have any other sick fish.

If you go to seachem website read paraguard instruction, there is also dip treatment you can use.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Fishy_Addiction said:


> I was told the salt could harm the plants.


It will. The last salt treatment kinda trashed my plants. Had to do it though because I didn't have anything else on hand.

You gotta pick something though. Ich is easily recognizable and easily treated. The reason it's so feared is because it kills fish very quickly once it gets established. You need to get on it quick and stay on it until every last one of them is dead.



outsider said:


> Heat is only there to speed up ich life cycle and you still need either med such as paraguard, ich-x and aquarium salt to kill the free roaming ich theronts.


Yup. Above 31 degrees C it starts to impede the parasite's ability to reproduce; but that's kind of hit and miss. Until you get to that point, however, you're just making the ich grow faster. The idea with heat is mainly to reduce treatment time.



outsider said:


> You can mix seachem metroplex with food and feed to your fish. Sicne ich feed from the fish, they will get metroplex through fish and die. Ich can only attach to stressed fish that lose it's slime coat. With slime coat med such as stressguard, paragaurd other fish should be free from ich.


This I don't agree with so much. Once ich is embedded it kinda walls itself off and is hard to kill. Given that med feed isn't in any treatment methods I've ever read I'm not certain that would work.

Slime coat stuff, while possibly helpful, is also unlikely to cure ich all by itself.



outsider said:


> I always add 1/2 tea spoon / gallon of aquarium salt to my tank and I didn't have ich problem until I bought new tank and didn't add salt to the tank water. Fish were stressed after i moved them as well.


I wouldn't advise that. Salt is a good treatment option for lots of external parasites; but it's also stressful to fish that aren't evolved to handle it. Salt should only be added when there is a reason to do so. Continuous, low level salt baths are likely to do more harm than good.



outsider said:


> If you go to seachem website read paraguard instruction, there is also dip treatment you can use.


Dips aren't effective against ich (other parasites, yes; but ich is too deeply embedded to kill... you have to wait until it drops off the fish and get it in it's freeswimming stage).


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## outsider (Jan 13, 2015)

Rockman said:


> This I don't agree with so much. Once ich is embedded it kinda walls itself off and is hard to kill. Given that med feed isn't in any treatment methods I've ever read I'm not certain that would work.


I should have mentioned that was qoute form seachem support.



Rockman said:


> Slime coat stuff, while possibly helpful, is also unlikely to cure ich all by itself.


Slime is solely protect other fish in the tank for future infest. The fish already has ich has to fight it off on its own even you raise temp.



Rockman said:


> I wouldn't advise that. Salt is a good treatment option for lots of external parasites; but it's also stressful to fish that aren't evolved to handle it. Salt should only be added when there is a reason to do so. Continuous, low level salt baths are likely to do more harm than good.


Fair enough and I know some ppl suggest salt are bad for oto and cory. However I have add salt to my tank for long time and my tetras (neon, cardinal, green neon, black neon, rummy nose), Rasbora (Galaxy and Harlequin), Corys (Pygmy and Alibno) Gobies (Peacock and freshwater neon), Siamese algae eater, red cherry shrimps, nerite snail and oto are fat and health in my tank. I only got sick fish once and that is was new tank and I didnt' add salt. I have close to 90 fishes in my 45 gallon and my tank is also heavy planted while salt has no effect on my tropica plants either. Not to mention 1/2 tea spoon/gallon of aquarium salt won't even make your tank brackish water tank. Not to mention that is dosage base on direction of API aquarium salt.



Rockman said:


> Dips aren't effective against ich (other parasites, yes; but ich is too deeply embedded to kill... you have to wait until it drops off the fish and get it in it's freeswimming stage).


Again from seachem support. I only mentions it as it might be helpful.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Ahhh... sorry about that. Didn't mean to come off as argumentative. Actually I didn't notice I was replying to just you.

Anyway. The seachem support pages are general information. Those meds are used for a range of diseases. Med feed and dip treatments are suitable for a number of parasites; but not ich. Ich is more or less untouchable once it's embedded; so we have to hit the freeswimming stage. Meaning you need a long term bath in tank. Not really any way around that unfortunately.



outsider said:


> Fair enough and I know some ppl suggest salt are bad for oto and cory. However I have add salt to my tank for long time and my tetras (neon, cardinal, green neon, black neon, rummy nose), Rasbora (Galaxy and Harlequin), Corys (Pygmy and Alibno) Gobies (Peacock and freshwater neon), Siamese algae eater, red cherry shrimps, nerite snail and oto are fat and health in my tank. I only got sick fish once and that is was new tank and I didnt' add salt. I have close to 90 fishes in my 45 gallon and my tank is also heavy planted while salt has no effect on my tropica plants either. Not to mention 1/2 tea spoon/gallon of aquarium salt won't even make your tank brackish water tank. Not to mention that is dosage base on direction of API aquarium salt.


It's not likely to make them ill in a way that you'd notice. It's not a natural condition for them though; it has the potential to mess with osmoregulation. Salt can definitely cause problems for freshwater fish in high enough quantities; but it's not really well understood where the 'non harmful' level is. There's a possibility that it might lead to issues down the line. I think the general consensus for best practice is to leave the salt alone unless you've got a reason to need it.

Frequently asked questions on using salt | Features | Practical Fishkeeping

Salt | The Skeptical Aquarist


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## outsider (Jan 13, 2015)

Rockman said:


> Ahhh... sorry about that. Didn't mean to come off as argumentative. Actually I didn't notice I was replying to just you.
> 
> Anyway. The seachem support pages are general information. Those meds are used for a range of diseases. Med feed and dip treatments are suitable for a number of parasites; but not ich. Ich is more or less untouchable once it's embedded; so we have to hit the freeswimming stage. Meaning you need a long term bath in tank. Not really any way around that unfortunately.
> 
> ...


It is kind out of topic now, however freshwater such as river and lake aren't really salt free, they just have really low concentration of salt compare to ocean. (Ocea's salt and mineral are actually wash off from rivers) The only way to get salt and mineral free is using RO water. My fishes are health and fat that is all matters.

Back to the topic of ICH. The reason Seachem say metroplex will help with Ich is metroplex will stay in fish' body system once fish consume it and ich stay alive by feeding on the fish which end ich will end up consume metroplex and die. Anyway nothing more for keeper to do other than speed up ich life cyrcle while kill any free form ich and hope fish's immune system can fight it off.


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

Just an update, I have only lost two neons since treatment. Having the tank in an air conditioned room that isn't always air conditioned is very hard to monitor, but I have a system now. Tank is sitting at 89.5 and the frogs are actually doing very well. Plus I got one of my plants to grow despite salting. It was only 2" and now it is nearly 5"! XD 
Still no paragaurd. I tried on my we to Cultus lake waterslides with the three stores we passed by (Hey old guy... Can we go to that...? " 

"No."
"But I..."
"No"
"Fish Meds"
*science and speeding past fish store*
Story of my life. Hate being an adult and having to be dependent on others for transportation. >< 


Anyways back on topic...
I have been giving a food that consists of bulk name brand pellet(seller is not allowed to disclose name because of bulk price), blood worms, and crushed garlic (BNP eat the garlic flesh, but the oils are also absorbed into the pellet food and worms)

My fish are going crazy over the garlic! I even started feeding it to my bettas and the one female shreds up the garlic pieces that are left and just eats it like no tomorrow.

Oh, I al so did a vacuum the other day when I noticed no ich on the animals.


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## outsider (Jan 13, 2015)

Ow..While it is sad to see fish die, at least neon tetras are cheap. (I think 1.99 in petsmart?) It hurted really bad when i lost 1 galaxy rasbora to ich. (5 dollar!)

And

I don't have car either, and I take bus/skytrain to fish stores. Than again I live near Metrotown which is like center hub.


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

Yeah at least mine were cheap. ><

It takes a while to get to metro town from here. I have a better chance of getting to Fish Addicts sooner. Lol. But all seems well right now. One more week of treatment.


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## outsider (Jan 13, 2015)

It isn't that bad. I use to go to Surrey everyday when I studied in Kwantlen Surrey campus. 15 min skytrain, 30 to 35 min bus but I think tankslink has changed the bus route. =P


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