# For the 10th+ times my Hybrid German Blue Rams laid eggs (Amazing Color)



## waynec

Every time so far the eggs turned white after 24+ hours. previous 9 times, they ate all the eggs when this happened. Last time, they didn't even eat the eggs but just let the eggs rot. I read that the fertility rate for Electric Blue Rams is very low. I couldn't believe it happens to Hybrid GBR as well.

They just laid eggs again last night. This time on a standalone rock again. So easily to transfer (No tank to transfer to).

I think I did see 5-6 eggs didn't turn white after 48 hours. However, because the rest of the eggs were infected with fungus and bacteria, the few eggs eventually disappeared as well.

If the eggs are unfertilized there is no point for me to try to hatch them myself. My pair of Rams should be getting very old now after laying eggs for 10+ times.

I need some babies to continue with the life cycle.

Should I try to hatch the eggs myself?






Amazing color: I hope they give me a last batch of eggs.

















Thanks,


----------



## Canadian_Aqua_Farm

Try to hatch them yourself. Add some methylene blue to the water in the hatching tank. This will prevent fungus from growing and you will know for sure if any of the eggs are good or not.


----------



## Fedaykin

They appear to be doing the job well... Perhaps you should switch the rock to an earthtone . It might be harder for the male too see eggs on that one. In my experience if the center of the eggs has not developed a dark spot (the eyes) then they will not be fertile.. I usually confirm at 24 hrs and if they do not hatch in 36-48 they are garbage. If the pair permit you can scrape dead eggs off that you believe are developing mold. In an ideal world if you had another fish you'd swap one out. Make sure waterflow is turned down before spawn so the sperms aren't swept away.. do not place rock near filter water return/nozzle... If you can't turn down flow and water is turbulent try to restrict the filter intake. I'd have more advice if you were having trouble with a different part of the process but without at least 1 fertile batch to go off either hatched or eaten prematurely it's hard to say. If you've never seen the centers darken it might be hard for you to judge yourself. It's really obvious once it happens right. Let me look for a pic.. ok these hatched.. I'm only just working on creating hybrids now so I can't give you my experience with fertility yet


----------



## Fedaykin

I don't want to tell you what to do but I used meth blue when I thought that fungus was an issue.. then later in my experience I found that if the eggs were going to hatch they would on time before heavy fungus.. and if not meth blue did nothing but wipe out my bio filter which is bad for fry once they do hatch. If you're trying to prevent fungus 3 days in those eggs aren't hatching.. ok. Personally I prefer manually picking a few problem eggs off if I need to. I use a sewing needle. Just my experience.. I don't know what your temps are at but go to 86F 30c for faster egg hatch.


----------



## waynec

Thanks for the advice. I am afraid that once I touch the eggs, the parents will start eating the eggs. The strange thing is after 24 hours, I usually see a tiny dot inside the eggs. I just don't know why they don't hatch. After 10+ times nursing the eggs, my rams are getting good at this task. 

I am reversing day and night for them so my tank don't get too dark (turn on light at night, turn off light during the day. My tank is away from the Window). My experience is that if it becomes totally dark they will eat the eggs.

I will give it one more try. I hope this is not the last time they will lay eggs.


----------



## waynec

Fedaykin said:


> They appear to be doing the job well... Perhaps you should switch the rock to an earthtone . It might be harder for the male too see eggs on that one. In my experience if the center of the eggs has not developed a dark spot (the eyes) then they will not be fertile.. I usually confirm at 24 hrs and if they do not hatch in 36-48 they are garbage. If the pair permit you can scrape dead eggs off that you believe are developing mold. In an ideal world if you had another fish you'd swap one out. Make sure waterflow is turned down before spawn so the sperms aren't swept away.. do not place rock near filter water return/nozzle... If you can't turn down flow and water is turbulent try to restrict the filter intake. I'd have more advice if you were having trouble with a different part of the process but without at least 1 fertile batch to go off either hatched or eaten prematurely it's hard to say. If you've never seen the centers darken it might be hard for you to judge yourself. It's really obvious once it happens right. Let me look for a pic.. ok these hatched.. I'm only just working on creating hybrids now so I can't give you my experience with fertility yet


I have black gray stones and this marble stone. They always choose this stone over the black gray stones (which I wish they would pick). I think it has to do with camouflaging the eggs.


----------



## waynec

Fedaykin said:


> They appear to be doing the job well... Perhaps you should switch the rock to an earthtone . It might be harder for the male too see eggs on that one. In my experience if the center of the eggs has not developed a dark spot (the eyes) then they will not be fertile.. I usually confirm at 24 hrs and if they do not hatch in 36-48 they are garbage. If the pair permit you can scrape dead eggs off that you believe are developing mold. In an ideal world if you had another fish you'd swap one out. Make sure waterflow is turned down before spawn so the sperms aren't swept away.. do not place rock near filter water return/nozzle... If you can't turn down flow and water is turbulent try to restrict the filter intake. I'd have more advice if you were having trouble with a different part of the process but without at least 1 fertile batch to go off either hatched or eaten prematurely it's hard to say. If you've never seen the centers darken it might be hard for you to judge yourself. It's really obvious once it happens right. Let me look for a pic.. ok these hatched.. I'm only just working on creating hybrids now so I can't give you my experience with fertility yet


Hi,

How did you scrape the eggs off the rock into a net without damaging the eggs?

Thanks,


----------



## Fedaykin

I use my tube with a filter cloth banded under.. I used to scrape them all off (takes an hour) and incubate them. I would use my pin to scrape under the eggs holding the slate above the tube and letting them drift down into it.. you have to be so methodical about it not to break them.. you can also use a dropper to suck them up once loosened..


----------



## Fedaykin

If you want to take the parents out of service so they don't eat then use your cleaning syphon to make a chamber for the eggs.. buy a $2 filter bag and cut a square out and strap it to the bottom (or any thing material). Put the eggs in and add airstone to promote water flow. If you make the tube shorter and find a way to secure it to the tank wall so it doesn't sink below you can clean them with a short dropper tool from a chemical test kit. Blow them around. Suck out debris from the chamber.. that's how I take care of them when I'm taking charge.


----------



## waynec

Fedaykin said:


> If you want to take the parents out of service so they don't eat then use your cleaning syphon to make a chamber for the eggs.. buy a $2 filter bag and cut a square out and strap it to the bottom (or any thing material). Put the eggs in and add airstone to promote water flow. If you make the tube shorter and find a way to secure it to the tank wall so it doesn't sink below you can clean them with a short dropper tool from a chemical test kit. Blow them around. Suck out debris from the chamber.. that's how I take care of them when I'm taking charge.


I see your pictures above of your setup. I will try it for the next batch if the eggs don't hatch this time. I hope they still can give me a next batch. My GBRs are amazing. They breed every 2-3 weeks.

Lol, they don't even hang out with each other as much.


----------



## waynec

It has only been 22 hours, the female GBR is digging a pit somewhere while the male is guarding the eggs. I guess she does not know the eggs are unfertilized.

So far, I don't see eyes yet. Do these eggs look good?


----------



## Fedaykin

They look reasonable.. in my experience they will get darker and darker. It's hard to tell if they are picking up pigment from dark specs on the rock but they look ok.. I never used a white rock so it's really making them look white in my eyes but I'm optimistic.

You will know for sure if they develop a distinct dark center not just dark overall as these appear right now.


----------



## Fedaykin

Dark centers:


----------



## Fedaykin

I had a pair of dwarf cockatoos that liked to lay eggs all the time. They were a pink colour and no matter how many times they tried and how long I nurtured them they turned white and never hatched. Not once. I always thought they were fertilized because they were pink... But they were opaque pink.. it was the weirdest thing. I eventually gave up when I discovered success in rams. I love your fish so much I'd love to see you make more of them so I can have some


----------



## waynec

Ok, sad. They ate all the eggs. I saw about 80% of the eggs still good around 1:00pm in the afternoon. I think I also saw eyes. But the female was eating off the rock. I thought she just eating the unfertilized eggs. By 6:30pm all gone.

Next batch !!! I will be the parents (hatch them myself).


----------



## Fedaykin

That sucks. The only time I was successful at natural upbringing was when I removed the female after the first day.. she looked odd.. the male continued to bring them up until free swimming.. sorry I was successful one other time with both parents to wiggler's but I lost them I think to the filter I forgot to turn off while I went out for dinner.. I assume they moved them and they were swept away. 

Curious did you manage a picture we might better confirm fertility?


----------



## Fedaykin

Well I've changed my belief system a bit. Previously I had been picking dead eggs myself so no mold would build up (parents permitting). Since my pair laid eggs again and they looked 100% fertile in the beginning.. I didn't touch them and 24 hours later there was a pillow of mold.. if you refer to my thread you can follow how I dealt with it.. point is you have to get involved if they don't eat the dead ones.. I still don't prefer meth blue myself but.. now interesting thing is once I cleared the mold and put the eggs in the incubator the rate at which the eggs fail has dropped.. I'm convinced the incubator does something that prevents the eggs from dying. Possibly not allowing one bit of mold to grow or another idea I had is isolating them away from anything that might be crawling with tank organisms... Possibly something microscopic hurts the eggs?? Just some ideas I've been throwing around.. here's a pic of the eggs right now nice a healthy in my incubator..

*Update* right after this post I cleaned the incubator and I actually have wiggler's at this point! Added 2nd picture of the clutch.


----------



## waynec

Fedaykin said:


> Well I've changed my belief system a bit. Previously I had been picking dead eggs myself so no mold would build up (parents permitting). Since my pair laid eggs again and they looked 100% fertile in the beginning.. I didn't touch them and 24 hours later there was a pillow of mold.. if you refer to my thread you can follow how I dealt with it.. point is you have to get involved if they don't eat the dead ones.. I still don't prefer meth blue myself but.. now interesting thing is once I cleared the mold and put the eggs in the incubator the rate at which the eggs fail has dropped.. I'm convinced the incubator does something that prevents the eggs from dying. Possibly not allowing one bit of mold to grow or another idea I had is isolating them away from anything that might be crawling with tank organisms... Possibly something microscopic hurts the eggs?? Just some ideas I've been throwing around.. here's a pic of the eggs right now nice a healthy in my incubator..
> 
> *Update* right after this post I cleaned the incubator and I actually have wiggler's at this point! Added 2nd picture of the clutch.


I got a bottle of methylene Blue today. I still don't know how you get the eggs off the rocks without damaging them.

Let's hope my pair will breed one more time.


----------



## aprilsaquarium

Take the whole rock and move it over


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fedaykin

did you read my update in my thread? Watch this video.. the entire thing is dedicated to scraping eggs due to mold buildup. If you're not into separating them i really do recommend you just go in an scrape white eggs every 6-8 hours.. then you'll never get mold. the fish should let you do this. If you really want to use meth blue in your main tank remember to remove the charcoal and bio media from your filter. Place the biobag in a small vessel filled with your tank water so they won't dry out for 4-5 days. You can leave the sponge filter.. meth blue 12 hrs after eggs laid (wait for some to die first) after 2 days do water changes and add the charcoal back. After you have cycled the water a total of 100% remove the charcoal and sponge and replace with new ones.. finally add your bio bag back to the filter.


----------



## waynec

Fedaykin said:


> did you read my update in my thread? Watch this video.. the entire thing is dedicated to scraping eggs due to mold buildup. If you're not into separating them i really do recommend you just go in an scrape white eggs every 6-8 hours.. then you'll never get mold. the fish should let you do this. If you really want to use meth blue in your main tank remember to remove the charcoal and bio media from your filter. Place the biobag in a small vessel filled with your tank water so they won't dry out for 4-5 days. You can leave the sponge filter.. meth blue 12 hrs after eggs laid (wait for some to die first) after 2 days do water changes and add the charcoal back. After you have cycled the water a total of 100% remove the charcoal and sponge and replace with new ones.. finally add your bio bag back to the filter.


I didn't know the GBR will let you do that to the eggs. I thought once they smell humans contaminating the eggs, they will eat all the eggs.

Cool video.


----------



## Fedaykin

Is she fat yet?


----------



## waynec

Fedaykin said:


> Is she fat yet?


Not, yet. My fish look quite old. I changed 50% of the water to try to stimulate them to breed. I got a 1L coke bottle to make a hatchery.


----------



## waynec

I moved a few of my tangerine tiger shrimps to a 15g gallon from a 5 gallon. They are still alive after 2 days. Maybe I can move the rest and free up my 5g tank for a hybrid German blue ram hatchery. I wonder if that is better than using the cleaning tube setup you are using. 

I will just add meth blue in the 5g gallon tank.

Thanks,


----------



## waynec

My German blue Rams pair looks old and lethargic. The female is almost as large as the male. Lost of coloration.

It has been at least a month now since they last breed. They don't look like they want to breed anymore. It used to be breeding every 1.8-3 weeks.


----------



## waynec

No, baby yet. But after 110% total water change. The color on the fish is back. I just hope I can get some babies from this pair. They look spectacular. The color on the female is still not restored yet. But the color on the male is amazing.


----------



## Fedaykin

Great to see you updating again... My project has seen catastrophic failure. I lost my irreplaceable one of a kind female gold Ram in a "haunted tank" after the last batch of fry she got puffy eyes, bloated a bit and died.. I've also lost most of my hybrid blue/gold Ram fry... I have 3 left. I'm so depressed. I have another female blue dying right now in the same tank.. something is going on.. Im seeking advice in another part of the forum.. 

As for your fish I wish them good health! I love how white they are.. if they've gone through a health crisis they may take a while to breed again.. other times a subtle change in their habitat can help (new ornament or layout change).. however if they aren't flirting eventually they may be done. My origional pair of blues that gave me my babies eventually stopped it seamed.. the male just harassed her (after 4-5 months of breeding every 10-14 days. They would have been 12-14 months old at that time approx) and I split them up.. cannot say whether things might have changed or if changing their pairing may have helped.. maybe they just get wise to my plans to harvest eggs..

Good luck. Please continue the thread


----------



## Kolewolf

Good luck Wayne....Water changes and a rise in temp might get them going again. My Terrors started breeding right after a big water change in which I rose the temp closer to 80 degrees.


----------



## waynec

Fedaykin said:


> Great to see you updating again... My project has seen catastrophic failure. I lost my irreplaceable one of a kind female gold Ram in a "haunted tank" after the last batch of fry she got puffy eyes, bloated a bit and died.. I've also lost most of my hybrid blue/gold Ram fry... I have 3 left. I'm so depressed. I have another female blue dying right now in the same tank.. something is going on.. Im seeking advice in another part of the forum..
> 
> As for your fish I wish them good health! I love how white they are.. if they've gone through a health crisis they may take a while to breed again.. other times a subtle change in their habitat can help (new ornament or layout change).. however if they aren't flirting eventually they may be done. My origional pair of blues that gave me my babies eventually stopped it seamed.. the male just harassed her (after 4-5 months of breeding every 10-14 days. They would have been 12-14 months old at that time approx) and I split them up.. cannot say whether things might have changed or if changing their pairing may have helped.. maybe they just get wise to my plans to harvest eggs..
> 
> Good luck. Please continue the thread


Sorry to hear that your project is a catastrophe. I wonder if I should try to get a pure Electric Blue female Ram and breed with the current male so I can get 75% Electric Blue color.

I will wait for now. I am sure if I can get a batch of babies from this current pair, some of the babies are very blue.


----------



## waynec

Nothing too exciting about my Hybrid German Blue ram. The male still appears to want to breed, but the female does not seem to produce anymore egg.

I think I have this too pair for about 2 years now. So they are getting old. I read on the internet some GBR have a lifespan of 4 years. I don't know if she will ever breed again.


----------

