# Popeye in earth eater (treatment)? Epsom Salts?



## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

Am pretty sure popeye is my problem now. I have read you can put epsom salts in your tank to help with swelling. How much, how long and what to do for water changes?


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

you definitely have water quality issue. I don't think it is your ph. What kind of water testing kit you use and check the expire date on it. Let us know the reading.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

All readings are good....trust me the kit is new and my local fish guy is off today otherwise I would call him. It is a result of damage from another bullying fish which is now gone. Water has been also tested by my fish guy and all is good.


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

not having any luck hey sherry , Popeye in Fish <<<check the link


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I am just trying to help. If your water condition is good, popeye should not happen. It is very less likely that it is caused by another fish.


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

I agree with charles , popeye is typically caused by water quality issues, i got 2 festaes one time and the bigger male had popeye, it took some time but he healed up ,


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Sherry, the fact that you have 2 cases of cloudly eye and now pop eye showing you do have a water quality issue. How about this, give us more information...
Tank size, demnision?
Tankmates? how many?
Water parameter reading?
Filtration? cleaning schedule?
And a photo of your current tank...


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## Adz1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes more info needed Sherry.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

I had a situation with another fish that was nasty. Chasing to the point of banging into things...not good. 

Tank size, demnision? 55 gallon tank
Tankmates? how many?Mating pair of Kribs, 1 pleco about 5", 3 earth eaters approx 4", 1 gourami approx. 3"
Water parameter reading?All paramaters read 0ppm, GH 120, PH 8
Filtration? cleaning schedule?Fluvol 305, weekly/bi-weekly
And a photo of your current tank...camera missing in action....took it camping...not sure where it ended up

And just so you know Charles I wasn't getting defensive....I welcome all help and info provided. I love being able to come to this site and know I may get an answer to my problem. 

I had no problems until I introduced a Heros Severus Red Neck Tie....since been removed for abvious reasons.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Sherry,
What is your Nitrate level? 0ppm is very unlikely. Some test kits like API Nitrate must be shaken for a minute or so or will give a false reading of 0. I recommend testing N03 again.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Like Grant said, nitrate at 0 is very unlikely unless your tank is a fully planted.

Though your PH is very high for keeping geophagus. How long have you had those geo for? Are they new fish? If so, that might be the problem. If you have them for a while, like from babies, you still might have some water quality issue. You don't have a powerhead in your tank?

A 55g is normally 48" long. With a small filter like a 305, you might have quite a bit of dead spots. It would be nice if you have a TDS meter to test your water.

One last thing, get a clean cup and put tap water in. let it sit for 30min or so. Then test the ph on it. Let me know the reading.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

OK but it has always been perfect...accept when I first started my tank up. I have had them for 2 months..... The only thing I have is what came with the fluvol 305.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

I have had them for about 2 months. I will get the brand name of my test kit. I only have what came with the filter. Is that not sufficient?


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

charles said:


> Like Grant said, nitrate at 0 is very unlikely unless your tank is a fully planted.
> 
> Though your PH is very high for keeping geophagus. How long have you had those geo for? Are they new fish? If so, that might be the problem. If you have them for a while, like from babies, you still might have some water quality issue. You don't have a powerhead in your tank?
> 
> ...


Charles,
May I ask what does TDS tells you in terms of problems and what do you look for? I notice that Pat also uses TDs rather than KH/GH to test his water. Is it a test that tell you more...or is it just more accurate in some way, please?
Thank you.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

ph: 7.4 from tank, from tap: 8
nitrite n03: between 0 and 5 ppm (it's sort of a darker yellow so in between there somewhere)
nitrate: 0ppm
ammonia: 0ppm

It is an API test kit and I only see a lot # on the bottles.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

OK found my camera. Will try to upload.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0-5ppm
nitrate 0ppm
ph 7.4 from tank, 8 from tap

Test kit is API and is not that old. Only lot # on bottles.

I tried posting this once already and it didn't go. Also tried to post a pic. Will try again. 

OK NEVER MIND....it's there now.


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## Foxtail (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you have carbon in the filter? If so do you change it every month? Carbon works great for about 3 weeks to a month or so and then it can become saturated and start leeching toxins back into the tank...

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

I do change the carbon regularily...


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

With that amount of plants if your tank is cycled I dont think you should have zero nitrate...but I am just a rookie, like to hear what Charles or Grant or other knowledgable members have to say.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

They are plastic plants


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am confused to be honest with you because if you have no plant to absorb nitrate in your tank, and if your tank is cycled, unless you change your water big time daily, and is very understock, with no overfeeding...I cannot understand how it can be so (ammonia zero and nitrate zero)...did you test your water right after a major water change? 

You said your local fish guy said your water is all perfect...that is puzzling...like to hear what others say about this...

When you tested your nitrate, did you shake the bottle really well, and shake in between when you added the first and second bottle? What is the expiry date? How often do you change your water? and how much? A TDS reading would help for sure...

Another fish could have bump into your fish to cause a cloudy eye but you have three fish with that problem and I assume they are on both eyes, is that right?

Anyway, your water test reading is very strange...they should nto be that way... in my humble opinion...

Where are you located?


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

I did a 50% water change yesterday. Yes I shook....no expiry date on bottles. One has died and one has popeye. yes both eyes and not affecting any other fish. 100 mile...


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

fluval 305 has 3 trays. What is in there? How often you clean your filter? How do you clean your filter media?
Now for the fish, your tap is 8. Your tank is 7.6. You dont have much buffer in your tank. Your ph is dropping. Now if you are changing your water once a month, your fish might get a ph shock; especially the SA fish. Did you notice the problem after a water change?

Now your latest reading has nitrite but no nitrate?


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

OK...Bio Max, Carbon and as of Saturday Peat Pellets. Every month. Swish media in tank water. Rinse new carbon before it goes in. I follow manufacturer's directions.

I will take the peat out, that could be why the ph is down. The problem arose after the red neck tie was introduced into the tank not after a water change.

Nitrate was fine....0ppm

So....my initial question was can epsom salts help reduce swelling? No one has answered this for me. I will phone my local dude guy in the morning so he can answer my question.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am sorry to hear one of your fish is dead. It must be a tough time for you.
Do they look better after the water change?
I thought usually if a fish has cloudy eye from abuse only one eye would be cloudy, isn't it?
I could be wrong but I thought pop eye is an indication of some kind of bacteria infection, which is usually related to water quality not being ideal for that particular fish.
Your water parameters should not have zero nitrate even after a 50% water change I think...would it be possible that perhaps your tank is not fully cycled?
Charles is a professional who helps set up and maintain lots of tanks all throughout the lower mainland and keeps many exotic fish in his fish room very successfully; he also owns a store that ships all over Canada to many satisfied customers--so he really knows what he is talking about.
Cant' speak for the man but I am under the impression he is just trying to find out the cause before offering any suggestion.
Dont know what else to say I am sorry...wish your fish will recover.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

You know....I have been asked so many questions by so many people I am just totally confused now. My tanks is approx. 8 months old and have not had any problems up until the introduction of the red neck tie cichlid. What should all the readings be?  If these guys die on me I might just give it up and stick with the other 55 gallon tank I have. Maybe I'll just put a bunch of cheapy fish in there.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am very sorry and I wish your fish nothing but the best, I know how you feel. You are concerned about your fish and it shows that you are a responsible owner who loves your fish. We need more people like you. I wish your fish could make it. I recently lost some fish and I still feel bad about it.
The readings from how I understand it should be zero ammonia and nitrite but non zero on nitrate. Nitrate should nto be too high but you should have some iotrate unless you have a whole tank full of plants in which case your plants would take up your nitrate as ferts. If you change your water like daily and do big changes you might have zero everything because nothing is allowed to build up before they are removed; but with a tank that has its water changed on a weekly basis you would have some nitrate. If your tank is cycled, then your nitrite and ammonia should both be zero as they would all have been converted by your friendly bacteria to nitrate. some filter medi can remove nitrate I think it is called de*nitrate or something like that, and purigen also can remove some nitrate but since you dont seem to have any of those it is rather unusual that your have a nitrate zero reading. People asked you to check if your test kit might be expired becaue sometimes it might be just a false reading from a bad test kit.
Nitrate can be used as an indication of how often you change your water or whether it is time for you to change your water. Most fish will not be killed directly by a moderate amount of nitrate but when nitrate is high it suggests that water condition is not ideal so there could be other toxin and things like that in your water that could lead to sickness, infection, and such. I believe TDS was suggested because it can tell how much dissolved organic was in your water which can be used as a reference to how "clean" your water is.
Anyway, I wish I could be more helpful but I am new to the hibby and I learned almost everything I know through here and from talking to people that I have met through this site. There are many great people who know a lot on this forum who are also very helpful.
I am sorry for your loss. Good luck.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

Phewf.....thank you for explaining that part of things. So I should have some nitrates in my water. Maybe I got my test reading wrong...I don't know. I am going to give my head a rest from this for today.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

Ok I just thought I would get this one straight. I did so many tests and so many questions I was getting frazzled. I got my test results mixed up. 

nitrates: 0-5ppm
nitrites: 0ppm

Easy to do I guess when you are a friggin beginner. Am going to treat with Melafix and hope for the best.


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## JohnnyAppleSnail (May 30, 2010)

Sometimes when you get so many opinions it can be more confusing than helpful,Firstly the Peat is making your PH drop,many people will use Peat for that exact purpose to lower PH (Some use in Planted Tanks,etc.),Popeye can be difficult to treat,I've had Fish with Popeye (Usually one eye) and sometimes they would heal on their own or even eventually lose sight in that eye but wouldn't die. Water quality is important so just make sure You keep up a good regimen,I do weekly water changes,Personally I would do a waterchange,add some salt (Helps with cloudy eye),raise temp a bit. Melafix doesn't always work,so don't panic if you don't see results. Whats important to know (Which no one has mentioned) you can still have an ill Fish and have Great Water Quality,so I wouldn't go all gung ho changing this and changing that if all your Fish have generally been in good health,Myself I never use Carbon I've never found it necessary unless you have a cloudy Tank and You want the Water to clear Quicker,remove meds.,etc. I'm not alone here,believe Me. I clean My Filters once water flow slows down significantly,so usually 1-2 months. Try not to stress out,try the Melafix and let nature take it's course,I have a ten year old Striped Barb that got Popeye,it's Blind in the Eye but it's still motoring along.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

i dont understand - "you can still have an ill Fish and have Great Water Quality" in her condition. She has the fish for 2 months according to her. And two fish has the same problem one after another. This is really pointing to the fact that she is having water issue.

Anyhow, for pop eye and cloudy eye, keeping up the water parameter will heal this problem. It is not difficult. Melafix is not needed.


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## JohnnyAppleSnail (May 30, 2010)

What I'm saying is if You have a tank of say 30-40 Fish and 1 dies,and it may have dropsy,popeye,whatever and You check the Water parameters and all check near perfect,it doesn't mean just because 1 or 2 Fish die for whatever reason your Water quality is bad,a Fish or 2 just may be more weak or susceptable to a disease.

Yes,it may be a quality issue,but having a fish or 2 die just happens and You can be doing water changes till the Cows come home and it may not make a difference,if a Fish is going to go to the great beyond it will.

A Human Being can eat healthy,exercise,breath fresh air.....doesn't mean you can't get Cancer or any other disease. May just be "coincidence" that 2 Fish have it,never heard of Popeye being contagious at least not in My 30 years of Fish Keeping.Sherry's parameters seemed to read fine to Me,I wouldn't have changed much other than do a few more w/c's, What's hard to understand?...lifes a Mystery isn't it.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Ture. In her case, both fish have been fine for 2 months, both fish has developed cloudy eye and later fish has developed pop eye. And those two most likely cause by water quality issue. I personally have had fish or a tank in that matter that from the middle of nowhere a fsh and then another one develop the problem like hers without having some issue with water. I like to find out as i dont want to have anything else died without knowing. It is not like they are old or just waste away. It is cloudy eye and pop eye.

Pop eye is not contiguous, but having water quality issue will make pop eye looks contiguous as the water issue will slowly take out the weakest link and move up.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

Just my 2 cents....these fish were in the fish store for about a year. Is it possible that just the change in water has stressed them so much that this has happened? The fish have gone from a bottled water tank to treated city water. I do regular water changes and like I say I have never had problems until I added that damn fish.....


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Sherry said:


> Just my 2 cents....these fish were in the fish store for about a year. Is it possible that just the change in water has stressed them so much that this has happened? The fish have gone from a bottled water tank to treated city water. I do regular water changes and like I say I have never had problems until I added that damn fish.....


Hi Sherry,
This thread seems to be maybe a little more then you really need. The NO3 test kit from API needs to be shaken for a minute or so or it wont work. You mentioned you shook it but did you shake it that long? Sorry to go on about it but it is a common problem with that test giving low readings if not used exactly to the directions.
Now, your pH is high out of your tap, do you know what the GH and KH readings are? A simple API test will suffice, no offence to any members but TDS meters and such are not the norm. Something is not right here, we can figure it out.


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## Sherry (Apr 20, 2012)

The lower ph is probably due to the peat I put in. It is normally 8 - 8.2....I have since removed the peat. GH/140 KH/110 And I did as the directions told me. It was in cap letters and very clear this must be done, so I did.


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