# I have a dream: Brackish vivarium with a mesh open air area



## GaryR

Hey,

I have no idea how practical this is.. it's still really early in the planning stage. Here's the vision:

The Vancouver Aquarium had an archerfish display in the new entrance area last year. I was there at feeding time a few times. I was fascinated. Besides keeping a bunch of amazonian fish, the idea of an archerfish tank was one of the motivators to setting up my first aquarium.

I want to build brackish tank that's filled about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way. I'm not sure about the volume of the tank, but something like 48" width and 24" tall.. maybe 36" wide. Taller is even better, but I think there are glass width/weight restrictions. Rimless would also be super awesome (will become obvious why). Like I said, early in the planning stage so I'll just be keeping my eyes open for the perfect tank.

The tank will be stocked with:

- a school of archerfish
- a puffer
- mudskippers
- possibly some other interesting brackish fish..
- red mangroves

There will be some sort of island for the mudskippers. Plus there may also be some other more terrestrial plants on the island.

So far, this is all pretty straight forward. The tricky part is that I want the mangroves to grow out of the tank. Because I'd be feeding the archers and mudskippers things like crickets, it needs to be covered in some way. 

Possibly I don't know what to punch into google to find similar setups. I'm thinking of suspending a light a 2 feet or so above the tank, then build some sort of mesh box to sit on top. If you could imagine a 24" tall aquarium with another 16" tall enclosed area on top. I'm imagining:

- 16" of water
- island has another 8" of glass above it to stop the skippers from getting out
- another 24" for the mangrove tree portion to grow in

The keys to this top:

- needs to have a door or some mechanism to get into the tank
- needs to not look like crap. I found one guy who built one with PVC pipes that was not very aesthetically pleasing.

I was thinking of something that enclosed the lights.

Has anyone seen/done anything like this? 

I have a few concerns with the mesh top: I suspect it's going to be hard to keep a temperature/humidity in the aquarium.. Will my mangroves grow? Will the mudskippers need sweaters? At least with a glass top some heat would be held in.

And, of course, is there a better way of doing it?

Thanks!!


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## Elle

I loved that archerfish setup at the aquarium as well! You're thinking of something like this?










Or this, but with water?


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## GaryR

Not really either of them. Imagine something like:









(picture stolen from Archer fish?)

but with mangroves growing out instead of the driftwood, plus some land area for the skippers.

I figure screen may be more descriptive than mesh: I want to keep dinner in the tank.


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## Elle

Have you thought about a custom tall tank with just a mesh top? Or a custom acrylic tank? You could still get the rimless look with a tall tank but it would keep the heat in better, as the only mesh would be at the top of the tank.

If you don't want custom, I would look for a large "tall" dimension aquarium. I've seen an 80g tall that was about 37" high. That would still allow you to minimize the mesh.

Heat would probably be an issue with mesh, but a heat lamp over the mesh top would likely avoid the knitting project for the mudskippers.


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## GaryR

Hmm. Just google the price of a sheet of acrylic. Ouch. I think my budget is more along the lines of trolling CL and the classifieds for a tank


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## Claudia

GaryR said:


> Hmm. Just google the price of a sheet of acrylic. Ouch. I think my budget is more along the lines of trolling CL and the classifieds for a tank


Just keep looking around, u will find the perfect one. Takes some time sometimes but u will find it


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## macframalama

have you ever seen the tidal mudskipper tanks?


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## macframalama

.

or like this??


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## Claudia

Nice videos Mac, i like the 1st one hahah he is so cute but i love the second one for myself


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## er201

Here's a build you might want to check out.

My 300g paludarium journal (56k warning!)


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## Elle

I'd go for something like what's in er201's posted thread. Kickass cool setup there.

Some of the best shots from the thread referenced above, for those who don't want to wade thru the entire 7pg thread:


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## er201

You can probably add a land mass in there too using driftwood pieces or egg crate covered by clay of some sort.


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## GaryR

macframalama said:


> have you ever seen the tidal mudskipper tanks?


Wow. I haven't seen that before. That's really got me thinking now. 80g tank with a 20g 'sump' -- have about 30g in the 80 and push another 15 into it for high tide.

Though I suspect that means I'd have to get a 3rd tank to keep a puffer in 

Here's another clip of the tank:


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## GaryR

Elle said:


> I'd go for something like what's in er201's posted thread. Kickass cool setup there.
> 
> Some of the best shots from the thread referenced above, for those who don't want to wade thru the entire 7pg thread:


It's definitely a cool setup, but I want live mangrove. I think for the biotype look/feel, totally enclosed doesn't work. It'll be way too dark. This is more my inspiration for the environment:

View attachment 12507


After reading through the thread, I also wonder if condensation will be a problem... another problem to solve!


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## Elle

If you're planning on a full sized mangrove, you'll need to build a room and charge admission!

A good dehumidifier will help with overall room condensation...I've actually been thinking putting about one in our fish room (aka the basement).


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## macframalama

here is another one with mangroves, parden the crazy music, semi hypnotic weirdo tunes, best to turn your speakers off , might put you in a trance.


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## GaryR

I was more thinking of condensation on the glass on the tank than in the room.. and more of a mangrove bonsai than a full tree.


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## macframalama

and yet another, however no tidal stuff, and i cant see if you did a big tank why you couldnt run a tidal type tank and still have your puffers, also there are alot of snails that breed specifically in brackish waters so you might be able to run a snail hatchery and be breeding your own feed for you puffers, hard part is not allowing your puffers to gorge out , from my exp if there is food present the puffers are eating so i dunno how you could keep the snails from wandering into the puffers turf, because once there there im sure your puffer will just go to town,


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## macframalama

grow that mangrove out as big as you want, just an excuse to have a bigger tank later on,


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## GaryR

macframalama said:


> here is another one with mangroves, parden the crazy music, semi hypnotic weirdo tunes, best to turn your speakers off , might put you in a trance.


I've read that planting the mangroves directly in the substrate causes them to grow roots in the substrate. If you suspend them, like in a riparium, they apparently grow branching roots.

All of these posts are definitely inspiring me to actually build a tank instead of just thinking about it. Possibly phase I is to re-create one of these tanks in smaller (like 33g) scale first. I definitely like the tidal idea too.

I'm imagining setting up a tank with a canister filter rigged up to work at low tide levels to make sure the water is always moving. I'd then use a single pipe drilled into the bottom of the tank and use a fountain type pump to push water up from a bucket on a timer. I'm hoping that when the timer shuts the pump off, the water starts back flowing to low tide. Will this work?


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## GaryR

macframalama said:


> and yet another, however no tidal stuff, and i cant see if you did a big tank why you couldnt run a tidal type tank and still have your puffers, also there are alot of snails that breed specifically in brackish waters so you might be able to run a snail hatchery and be breeding your own feed for you puffers, hard part is not allowing your puffers to gorge out , from my exp if there is food present the puffers are eating so i dunno how you could keep the snails from wandering into the puffers turf, because once there there im sure your puffer will just go to town,


That's brilliant -- just keep the snails in the tidal bucket.


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## macframalama

lol dont get me wrong i love puffers but they are PIGS and if you have 25 snails in there reach they will eat 25 thats just what i have noticed with the few types i have had, 
on another sidenote i bought a "green spot puffer" like 1 inch and tossed him in my community grow out tank , and i had to remove him because he was desimating all the sa cichlid fry and flowerhorns i had in there so i tossed him in my 180 gallon with my 12-14 inch red taiul , a couple of 6 inch ish flowerhorns , my rtc x tsn hybrid, and he is the boss of the 180, totally evil lil bugger so i dunno how well they would do with mudskippers but he uses my red tail cat like a hiding place , and when the red tail isnt co operating he nips at him and forces him to move where he wants him to move, so i dunno what kind of puffer you were thinking but i dunno if a mud skipper would get picked on , or what but at least he could leave the water lol , so i hope you get it all set up i would love to see vids of the build or pics at least , lemme know how it works out


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## GaryR

macframalama said:


> lol dont get me wrong i love puffers but they are PIGS and if you have 25 snails in there reach they will eat 25 thats just what i have noticed with the few types i have had,
> on another sidenote i bought a "green spot puffer" like 1 inch and tossed him in my community grow out tank , and i had to remove him because he was desimating all the sa cichlid fry and flowerhorns i had in there so i tossed him in my 180 gallon with my 12-14 inch red taiul , a couple of 6 inch ish flowerhorns , my rtc x tsn hybrid, and he is the boss of the 180, totally evil lil bugger so i dunno how well they would do with mudskippers but he uses my red tail cat like a hiding place , and when the red tail isnt co operating he nips at him and forces him to move where he wants him to move, so i dunno what kind of puffer you were thinking but i dunno if a mud skipper would get picked on , or what but at least he could leave the water lol , so i hope you get it all set up i would love to see vids of the build or pics at least , lemme know how it works out


Yeah, I hear puffers are mean. A few sources say they will co-habitat. I just have to keep telling myself that I don't need to own all the fish I've ever wanted at the same time


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## macframalama

haha you dont? jeez why didnt someone tell me this ,

anyways here are some more plans i thought you might like the read
Review My "Tidal System" Plan - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community
Tidal Mudflat Aquarium - mudskippers | The Reefuge Forums | Australian Marine / Reef Aquarium Community


GaryR said:


> Yeah, I hear puffers are mean. A few sources say they will co-habitat. I just have to keep telling myself that I don't need to own all the fish I've ever wanted at the same time


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## GaryR

So I picked up a 180gph pump tonight and played around with it a bit with a couple of buckets. It looks like flow rate is about even: I ran the pump for 1 minute, then let it drain for a minute, etc.. basically it stopped draining exactly 1 minute after stopping. Height difference was definitely a factor -- push the pump to it's max height didn't work so well.

The proper way to set up the tidal aquarium would be to drill a tank with separate drains and returns, etc, but this pump plus a timer should get the job done for a first pass. 

I have a spread sheet with different tank sizes, plus the water heights I'd transition between. It looks like I'll need between 1.5 -> 3gph (yeah, 3gph is so slow) to achieve the transitions for most tank sizes (looking at going from 1/3 -> 2/3, so about 15g on a 45g tank over 6 hours is 2.5gph). This also all depends on the size of the land mass, etc. I just hope I can get a 1/2" ball valve that will let me turn the flow down far enough.


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## macframalama

thats cool glad your pushing forward with the plans on the tank, I hope some of the links/posts helped out , I hope it works out and keep us posted

and even if you only had a drain you could run a spray bar but instead of having it spray across the tank you could just aim it at the back or down the back of the tank,


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## GaryR

macframalama said:


> thats cool glad your pushing forward with the plans on the tank, I hope some of the links/posts helped out , I hope it works out and keep us posted
> 
> and even if you only had a drain you could run a spray bar but instead of having it spray across the tank you could just aim it at the back or down the back of the tank,


Links have been great.

To keep this first version simple I was going to just modify a canister filter to work at low tide levels -- it would always be on cycling. I think extending the return bar on the canister would be quieter than spraying the back of the aquarium.

The water storage would run from the pump on the timer (or maybe a float switch like AutoTopoff.com).

We'll see how much momentum I still have at the end of the weekend


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