# Dear Discus people



## rickwaines (Jan 2, 2011)

Hey all,


So, at long last I am beginning the planning of a Discus tank. I will have sufficient resources to build the system I want instead of the system I can afford, and so, it seems a good time to undertake Discus. The things I know. The tank will be 24 by 24 by 24. Beyond that, and the fact that I would like to keep discus, I have made no firm decisions. Any advice? Starting with glass vrs acrylic, moving on to filtration? What would your dream discus setup with these dimensions include. Another thing I know is that I am going to do a hardscape with wood, sand and rock, no plants.
As usual, I look forward to your insights.

Rick


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

a 60g tank, I would get the eheim 2075 on sale now at J&L for $200. I heard it is media included as well which is a very good deal.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

and then you can decide if you want wild or domestic...

tankmates... cory, bigger tetra, plecos, hatchet, catfish...


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## rickwaines (Jan 2, 2011)

charles said:


> and then you can decide if you want wild or domestic...
> 
> tankmates... cory, bigger tetra, plecos, hatchet, catfish...


domestic for me I think.


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## rickwaines (Jan 2, 2011)

one hears about all of the specific requirements of Discus. Are there any ideas regarding amount of flow in a discus tank? I have heard water quality is super important, and with this is it a good idea to over filter? Or would this create too much flow? Perhaps there are threads that cover this material that someone could recommend?

R


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about the overfiltering. You can filter as much as you want, but discus want low nitrates, so water changes are way more important. So if you can rig up an auto water change system, it would really help. If not, then a pump/super safety siphon would be the next best thing, and then the trusty python (a bit slow unless you have a lot of gravity on your side).

Sand, rock and wood are perfect. You can use the scape to break up the flow and have quiet spots for the discus to sit. Those would be the spots you gravel vac too. I like that you're using sand. I hate bb tanks and I believe they are not as stable for water quality as tanks with a bit of sand.

My dream tank would be a bit bigger than what I have and that's a 48x36x24 tank. Don't know the gallons, but the width and the depth would allow me to do a lot more with the scape than even the current tank. I find 18" tanks very limiting. 24" is good, but 30"+ is even better.

I concur with Charles about the 2075. I'm getting one for my 46 bow. 

Or sump it, even better, as then you can do water changes by pumping out of the sump and have extra volume and endless options for media.

IMO, good flow is always welcome in a tank, for plants and for fish, but Discus don't really like strong current everywhere, so even though I have over 2000 gph flow in my 30"x30"x24" tank (bigger version of yours), there are only a couple of spot where the flow is high. I have it high at the surface for agitation and air exchange, and one place in a dead corner to move debris to my filter. It's all done with HK's (HK1, HK750 and HK550) and my Eheim 2078.


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## rickwaines (Jan 2, 2011)

mr 2 wheels

Thank you, as usual, very informative. How do you feel about the acrylic glass debate. I understand the obvious differences; scratching weight, but what about clarity of view. Any difference orother reasons to preference one over the other? I presume you are happy with your glass? I forget did you use starphire? And I was thinking about a sump. I am intrigued by them. My main concern would be keeping the noise down as it will be in the living room. I imagine sump pumps can be bought that are quiet.

Thanks again.

Rick


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rick, I'm very happy with my glass tank. An acrylic one would be clearer but would have cost me 2x as much and mine was plenty pricey. I'm sure Tony1928 will chime in here, as we've discussed this lots. I didn't go starphire as I discussed this with Jeff at J&L and we felt it wouldn't be worth the difference in price for a fw tank. For salt yes. Since my background is painted black the clarity wouldn't have come into play. Acrylic would have the following +'s:

Better insulator for sound and heat
Clearer
Lighter
Easier to drill

Glass would have these:
Cheaper
more scratch resistant

My kids already managed to scratch the outside of my tank in one spot, so I can't imagine what an acrylic tank would have looked like by now. That's my worry.

Your main concern with the sump would be the overflow. For a 60 gallon tank, you can use a small immersed pump which would be much much quieter (like an Eheim 1260 Eheim Universal 1260 Water Pump).

If you run a Beananimal stuff overflow I think it would be pretty quiet.

Conversely, if you're a chicken like me and don't want a sump in the living room, then drill the tank and plumb the 2075 into the tank, like I did (and Daniel for his 90 gallon). Clean, nothing hanging over the tank, and then run a Hydor ETH300 so you don't have a heater in the tank either. With a 24"x 24" you'll want the extra space and that lack of clutter will help. If you paint the back and add an HK (or if you want no wires, go with a Vortech MP10 - I'm lusting after one) and it'll look great.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Discus in my opinion do not like sumps. Canisters are fine with alot of cleaning them. At least monthly. The water is running through all the munge in the filter and the discus don't like it. Same with the sump . The bioload is there...just not showing in the tank. They look dark with sump and also 
More so with canisters. Shelley uses canisters but she rinses them religiously. 
More prone to Hith etc especially with carbon and bioload.
If you do...don't buy pigeons. You will have alot of peppering. The lighter the background and bottom the better they will display.main hinge is even ph and .125 ppm for nitrification to occur. Clean water...lots of wcs to grow. I'd go 75 or 90 with wood and sand as water is less with things in there. And if you do put schooling fish then more. You need a group of 6. 
I'd go with 4 in or at least 3.5 if you can. I'd keep the sand very thin on the bottom for growing out.
there's lots of good info at the beginners section of simplydiscus forum. 
All I use is a hydro sponge and at times I run a hot magnum with the pleated filter to remove fine stuff and clarify.
Take your time and decide on strains, or whatever..as if a display tank you will have to stay to those 6 .or. Go insane and want more and more tanks and discus strains...which I don't advise. Lol.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235581,-123.185259


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

April said:


> Discus in my opinion do not like sumps. Canisters are fine with alot of cleaning them. At least monthly. The water is running through all the munge in the filter and the discus don't like it.


I'm a little confused by this point April. Can you explain how a HOB or sponge filter would function differently than a canister or sump in this respect? Whether it's a HOB, sponge, canister, sump, HMF, the design of the filter is to gather the "munge" into the material, so by definitely, the water always gets pushed through the munge. That's the way I understand a filter works. Maybe it's the carbon (which you mentioned) or some other media people are using in those filters? Half the people on Simply also run canisters that I can see. Or maybe it's just that canister filter people tend to be lazy with water changes?


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

I'll post some pictures of my setup when I get home. 
It's basically a 46"x38"x27" semi-cube tank, full starfire glass. I wouldn't bother with starfire normally, but I bought the tank second hand for a steal. 

I think regardless of the type of filtration, maintenance is key. Don't let detritus and gunk build up, and the easier it is to clean, the better. Again, it all depends on how good you are about keeping things clean. Sump, canister, sponge, doesn't matter as long as you do it. 

I think sponge filters are the easiest as you can just pull them out and rinse them with a bit of tank water and you're set. That is why they are so popular with discus keepers. I prefer not having any filters in my display as I don't like how it looks, but a lot of people don't mind, it's all about the fish for them. 
Canisters work well if you clean them often, like April said. As for sumps, again, it's all about the design. If your sump is easy to clean and you actually do it, then it will work fine. The problem is, most people will leave it cause it "looks" clean, and nutrients begin to build up very quickly. 

For my tank, It was drilled with an overflow box for a sump, but I ended up capping it and building a filter inside the overflow instead. It's basically a bio-cube on steroids. I put all my media into mesh bags so I can pull them out and clean them when needed. For me, this is what works, because I know I will clean it because it's easy. There is no one right way to do it, in my opinion.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

For what it's worth, to some extent I buy in to the concept which I believe April is setting forth, and I believe that's why many discus-keepers on Simply use sponge filters, with or without other filtration. 
Not sure about sumps - probably depends on it's maintenance/cleansing regimen/routine. It could well be too, that some of those using canisters (not Shelley obviously), while not neglecting their water changes, may tend to be a bit lazy when it comes to cleaning/rinsing/replacing their filter media.
I've used canisters often on many tanks, but as for my discus tank, my preference by far is for the 2 HOB AC 110's I'm running on the tank. Very easy to keep religiously cleaned up & to substitute or rotate media for optimum water clarity and much less "munge" build-up.
Also use prefilters on the filter intake tubes, which I rinse thoroughly every second or third day, and which pick up (and allow quick elimination) of the bulk of the 'undesirable' matter in the water column, particularly uneaten excess food. 
Perhaps it's just a preference of mine, and a matter of opinion, but I believe this type of approach produces better quality water conditions for discus.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

deepRED's post above showed up before I had finished mine just below it, and I have to agree with his views.
I believe that with Discus, the filtration cleansing routine is the crux of the matter being discussed here, not the filtration means, or types, themselves.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, sponges are one of the most popular types of filtration for discus. They are cheap, easy to maintain, and the main thing, it's very easy to see and remove built up detritus and crap in the tank. Its the only thing I would use on fry tanks due to their gentle nature.

I like the AC filters as well, and I used to run one on almost all my smaller tanks (<180 gallon) as a primary or secondary filter. They can be a bit noiser, but it's not that big of a deal unless its in a bedroom or you can't stand a tiny bit of noise.



emile said:


> For what it's worth, to some extent I buy in to the concept which I believe April is setting forth, and I believe that's why many discus-keepers on Simply use sponge filters, with or without other filtration.
> Not sure about sumps - probably depends on it's maintenance/cleansing regimen/routine. It could well be too, that some of those using canisters (not Shelley obviously), while not neglecting their water changes, may tend to be a bit lazy when it comes to cleaning/rinsing/replacing their filter media.
> I've used canisters often on many tanks, but as for my discus tank, my preference by far is for the 2 HOB AC 110's I'm running on the tank. Very easy to keep religiously cleaned up & to substitute or rotate media for optimum water clarity and much less "munge" build-up.
> Also use prefilters on the filter intake tubes, which I rinse thoroughly every second or third day, and which pick up (and allow quick elimination) of the bulk of the 'undesirable' matter in the water column, particularly uneaten excess food.
> Perhaps it's just a preference of mine, and a matter of opinion, but I believe this type of approach produces better quality water conditions for discus.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Rick, glad to see you finally venturing into the discus world.Its a rewarding experience and they are quite the fish to have.You will not be disapointed at all.I think all whom have left comments are bang on,but a few things i may add to it is :Be consistent,dont fiddle with your setup often let it be,and keep it simple.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Luke78 said:


> Rick, glad to see you finally venturing into the discus world.Its a rewarding experience and they are quite the fish to have.You will not be disapointed at all.I think all whom have left comments are bang on,but a few things i may add to it is :Be consistent,dont fiddle your setup often let it be,and keep it simple.


Couldn't agree more !


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Emile said what I was trying to say better. I've used aqua clears, yes it runs through but you can easily rinse the sponge weekly as well as a hydro sponge.
Lots of people use canisters but also alot of people end up with stressed fish after awhile.
I use a sump on my goldfish but every few weeks I drain it and get my vacuum cleaner (shop vac) and vacuum the brown mulm in the bottom of the tank. Then refill.
Discus in planted, or with high organics from canisters etc look alot darker.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275038,-122.835496


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## rickwaines (Jan 2, 2011)

such great advice everyone, thanks. Totally get the importance of maintenance and cleaning with discus. Not exactly sure why one filtration system, speaking in general terms would be better than an other. Perhaps it is s some have mentioned, it is simply easier to clean the in tank sponge filters and HOB filters. And very intersting about the brighter colour displays affected by the colour of background and colour of substrate. Thanks every one.

Rick


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Rick, just to add another little side note,dont know if your adding any tankmates with your discus but choose carefully.Requirements to keep discus in their prime,might not work for others(Water perimeters,diet,space,temps).
Some of us can gladly recommend a few to choose from.


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## dean9922 (Apr 21, 2010)

i agree with April and deepRed.....I use both foam filters and run ac 110's on all my tanks with no problems what so ever. I find cleaning the aquaclear filters is a lot easier then cannister IMO, and the water flow (currents) is not to heavy inside the tank, as discus like calmer water. Also, as far as discus in concerned, I have tried aquarium gravel, sand and even a small pebble rock from home depot and would never again use a substrate with discus, especially if you are feeding beefheart or seafood mix. The wasted food can cause real problems and as far as i'm concerned, not worth the grief for what we pay for the fish. A nice piece or two of driftwood with anubiaus or java works well and looks great in the tank and makes cleaning a breeze....


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## rickwaines (Jan 2, 2011)

Another question. The spot I have available for the tank is 24 by 24, but how high? Any thoughts on the height of a Discus cube? Still debating the acrylic vrs glass choice as well.


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

go acrylic if you can afford it. Yes acrylic scratches easily but you can also buff out the scratches . Plus it will be easier to move and if the big one( earth quake ) ever hits. You don't have to worry about it breaking. Just my 2 cents


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## rickwaines (Jan 2, 2011)

bonsai dave said:


> go acrylic if you can afford it. Yes acrylic scratches easily but you can also buff out the scratches . Plus it will be easier to move and if the big one( earth quake ) ever hits. You don't have to worry about it breaking. Just my 2 cents


asside from weight and earthquake resistance what do you like about acrylic.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

They can't jump as easy, holds heat better, and light to move and less like
Y to burst.
Less need for a canopy.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275234,-122.835507


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Acrylic is clearer and you'll see truer colours than regular glass. You won't have to worry about leaks ever if the acrylic tank is made properly, as the seams are also acrylic, not silicone and won't dry out or crack. It's basically welded.

The only thing is that the cost difference at the your size will be significant.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

And where to find one. If you had one made be very careful of the quality of plexiglass.
I picked up a homemade one once from the buysell. It started bulging more each day and the lid bent all out of shape .had to drain it and sell it as a snake tank. Some also yellows.
Tru vu or the one stratos was bringing in. The name evades me . Old age lol.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235464,-123.185153


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

April said:


> Tru vu or the one stratos was bringing in. The name evades me . Old age lol.


Tenecor is the name you're looking for.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

Tenecor and tru-vu are both solid. 

My 300 gallon is tru-vu, happy with the workmanship, though they used thinner acrylic that I though they would use. 
My 100 gallon is a tenecor, and I would say the build is just a slight bit better with them. 

Tenecor is build heavy duty, though it might take you a while to get anything from them. I went with tru-vu for my big tank because tenecor ignored my calls and emails. The customer service just wasn't there, which to me is scary if you ever need to use your lifetime warranty. I know many have had success with them in the past, but this is just my experience, and I know for a fact that I'm not the only person who have had issues in the past year. 
You think that if you're willing to spend a few thousand dollars that they would at least answer emails or calls within a reasonable time. I had my tru-vu tank ordered, built, shipped and setup before I even got a reply back from tenecor. Boggles my mind. 


For a 24"x24" cube, either would be fine, but for that size, honestly I would go for glass. If you're going big, then acrylic is the way to go. 

You just have to be too careful with acrylic, and no matter how careful you are, you'll get scratches. I just put a couple on my big tank on the weekend by accident. Sure, you can scratch glass too, but it's much more difficult. 

Don't get my wrong, I love acrylic tanks, but for the size you're doing, glass makes more sense in my opinion.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

rickwaines said:


> Another question. The spot I have available for the tank is 24 by 24, but how high? Any thoughts on the height of a Discus cube? Still debating the acrylic vs glass choice as well.


Haha, I know I am the wrong guy to ask when it comes to height. I love tall tank As tall as possible.

I have a 5 feet tall 12" diameter cast acrylic tube waiting to be turned into a tank hehe. Have to wait till I have the patience and skill to cut a 12" tube flat and square.

Fresh water, I would say acrylic for that size. Tenecor if you could pay for the extra $. Workmanship and attention to details is far superior than TruVu. It comes with a serial # - these guys are serious about what they build. I think the resale value could pay for the initial price difference.

Still like to find out who build Bosai Dave's tanks - they are incredible.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

rickwaines said:


> Another question. The spot I have available for the tank is 24 by 24, but how high? Any thoughts on the height of a Discus cube? Still debating the acrylic vrs glass choice as well.


I think 30-32" would look great. I mean, a really tall tank would look amazing, but too tall and it will be hard to scape because you don't have the width to play with. 
Also, more importantly, you have to remember how you'll clean it. It's a tough reach to the bottom on anything over 30", unless you're stretch armstrong. 

If you go acrylic don't beyond arms reach. You'll want to clean the panels by hand, and if you want reach it, it can be a real pain. Don't trust magnets or long scrapers for cleaning acrylic. you will eventually damage the tank, no matter how careful you are. 
I'm not talking about brown algae or anything simple to clean, I'm talking more green spot algae, which takes a bit more elbow grease. The front panel on my 300 gallon is super hard to reach, and therefore it doesn't get as clean as I like. My tank is only 27" deep, but it's 30" wide and hard to reach because it's recessed into the wall. I can't imagine cleaning anything deeper.

I'm still not sold on acrylic for this size of tank. Durability and ease of maintenance on glass outweighs the clarity issue for me. I have regular glass, acrylic and starfire, and the difference isn't as big as people think. It really only comes into play when you are dealing with a huge tank with very thick panels. 
The weight on a tank of that size is negligible. A glass tank with that foot print will be just as easy to move.

Just my 2 cents.


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## vicdunn (Feb 12, 2012)

Here is another thought, I have set up a 75 gallon planted tank with CO2 and lots of plants. I have 8 discus, some Cardinal Tetras, some cleaners. My Discus are laying eggs weekly (i really need to move them out of the tank) and I havent done a water change in a month. My nitrates are 0, Ammonia are 0, PH 6.6 phosphates almost 0. My point is if you go planted and have enough plants your water quality will be good, so your maintenance goes to looking after the plants.

I know planted is not for everyone


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