# Please help setting up new 210 g tank Need advice on -the use of Sand? and equipment!



## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I'm attempting to set up my 210g tank, I'm hoping to purchase a stingray eventually and arrowanna, and other big fish. So I have been doing some studying and sand is recommended for stingrays! I have read on this site that it is safe to use play sand from home depot, so i went out and bought 3 bags 0r 165 lbs of sand hope this will be enough? 

-what would be the easiest or best way to clean? (claims to be already cleaned but seems dusty)

-also heater I have brand new 300 watt Eheim Jager heater that claims to heat up to 264 gal ? will this be enough?

-I bought a 4' t5 dual light fixture (from home depot) came with bulbs plus have a 3' coralife light fixture will this be enough light?

-I have one fx5 at the moment will have another soon, from another user! hope that will be fine?

will have to get pump for air I do have one large power-head 802 any suggestions will be gratefully appreciated! I do want to get a stingray has soon has tank is established! going to get water and clean out filter from other tanks for some bacteria to kick start this tank!


Thank you in advance for any help!

Sincerely,

Bob

PS. Tank is reef ready but i don't know a darn thing about how to hook this up? has 2 bulk heads at each end of tank with 2 holes they are factory plugged fellow I bought from just used canister filters!


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## Sidius (Mar 25, 2012)

Cleaning the playsand is pretty easy if you have a backyard, a bucket and a hose.. You just fill a bucket 2/3 full (give or take) with sand and stick the hose in the bucket. Stir up the sand with the hose while it fills to agitate the dust/dirt and when it fills to the top, all the dust overflows while the sand stays at the bottom. After about 10-15 minutes you should have clean sand.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I would not use playsand for rays. Your filter will suffer.


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## Adam (Dec 17, 2012)

I used filter sand in my geo tank and cleaned it the same way Sidius suggested, it worked like a charm. I have not had any filter issues yet but that depends on how coarse the sand is and how long the intake tube is on your FX5, I shortened mine to keep it off the sand bed. I am not sure how well the Jager heater works but 300 watt seems pretty small to me for a 210 gal.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Put a foam prefilter on the intake. I never did use the standard fx5 cage for the intake. Modded it out with a mag pump prefilter.


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## Gregzz4 (Jun 25, 2010)

I wouldn't use playsand ... it's probably packed full of silicates and will cause you big algae issues


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

Bare bottom! youll eventually want to go bare when you have rays ad its a pain to get the sand out later


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## Gregzz4 (Jun 25, 2010)

MEDHBSI said:


> Bare bottom! youll eventually want to go bare when you have rays ad its a pain to get the sand out later


Who cares about getting the sand out later ?
Rays do so much better with a sandbed


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

Gregzz4 said:


> Who cares about getting the sand out later ?
> Rays do so much better with a sandbed


I disagree. plus sand can be to harsh on there bellies and it can harbour bad bacteria and yes good to but your filters should be the primary biological filtration.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Arhhh I'M so confused!! don't I need sand to help with bacteria/cycling? I personally don't like bare bottom but what is best for rays? and the tank (bacteria) i could put foam around intake? Is there anyone out there using play sand for there tanks/ray? Should I go to lfs and buy Proper sand?? or Bare bottom need vote? lol trying to prepare tank right now! Just leveling and working on lights cleaning tank.

Please advise how this should be done right!! and I'll do it! lol

Thank you in advance


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## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

Sounds like you bought and added the sand before you decided on rays. Yes they like sand, but anything besides 3m is usually too abrasive. Don't believe me? Just go ask on Aquatic Predators (don't know current status on their forum) or MFK. Those serious ray keepers/breeders swear by 3m and have experienced abrasion due to play sand, pool filter sand, Tahitian moon sand... Basically any sand besides 3m is too abrasive for rays. The nerves on their disc extremities are very sensitive, and is not worth causing unnecessary stress or injury to. Then you have the very real challenge of constantly cleaning out your filters and probably damaging impeller components with sand that the ray will continuously move and spray EVERYWHERE. You'll have a way easier time with small natural gravel; the edges aren't sharp, stays out of filters and it's easy to siphon for big fecal pieces without removing handfuls of sand. With the small gravel even a smaller ray (8-10") will still bury themselves if they feel like lurking, so you're not even taking away the ability for them to engage in that natural behavior.


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

My stingray tank had 3M black sand form Island Pets Unlimited and I never had a irritation problem. As you can see from my profile picture they put it where they want it eventually.


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## Gregzz4 (Jun 25, 2010)

MEDHBSI said:


> I disagree. plus sand can be to harsh on there bellies and it can harbour bad bacteria and yes good to but your filters should be the primary biological filtration.





MEDHBSI said:


> My stingray tank had 3M black sand form Island Pets Unlimited and I never had a irritation problem. As you can see from my profile picture they put it where they want it eventually.


I'm no Ray expert, but you are contradicting yourself MEDHBSI ....



DBam said:


> Sounds like you bought and added the sand before you decided on rays. Yes they like sand, but anything besides 3m is usually too abrasive. Don't believe me? Just go ask on Aquatic Predators (don't know current status on their forum) or MFK. Those serious ray keepers/breeders swear by 3m and have experienced abrasion due to play sand, pool filter sand, Tahitian moon sand... Basically any sand besides 3m is too abrasive for rays. The nerves on their disc extremities are very sensitive, and is not worth causing unnecessary stress or injury to. Then you have the very real challenge of constantly cleaning out your filters and probably damaging impeller components with sand that the ray will continuously move and spray EVERYWHERE. You'll have a way easier time with small natural gravel; the edges aren't sharp, stays out of filters and it's easy to siphon for big fecal pieces without removing handfuls of sand. With the small gravel even a smaller ray (8-10") will still bury themselves if they feel like lurking, so you're not even taking away the ability for them to engage in that natural behavior.


I will stand by my thoughts that Rays need sand as it's their natural habitat

I only became involved with this thread due to the question about play sand, which I still state ...
Don't use play sand .... it's packed full of phosphates/silicates

The rest of you are going to argue the value of sand in a Ray tank, so I'm out ...


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

No I didn't add yet that's why I'm asking because i don't know! I thank you guys so much for cluing me in! I only bought sand cause I read on this site that it's safe to use! I will take back tomorrow! where would I get soft pebbles to buy sounds like that's the way to go! 

thank you! so bare bottom wouldn't be that good then right? because the rays like to hide under the substrate? 

where to buy this I will set up bare for now but will need these pebbles soon?


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## Gregzz4 (Jun 25, 2010)

mrbob, you're going to get many differing opinions ...
I'll tell you to get rid of the play sand and find some very small, smooth pebbles, or some reef sand ( not sugar sand ). There are many grades of reef sand available, so check them out. J&L carries lots of them and so does King Eds.
Stay away from sugar sand so it doesn't plug up your equipment or become a sand storm, and stay away from very coarse stuff as it's too rough for your critters
Something native to your Ray is best, so do some more research 

Good luck


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Thank you Greg sounds good!! and thank you to everyone!


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## sunshine_1965 (Aug 16, 2011)

Bob I sent hondas3000 a pm to see if he can help with substrate suggestions. He breeds rays or did at one point not long ago.

This was his reply to me.


I don't use substrate as it is dirty and ray hide in it too much and hard to clean too. You can use any fine sand that or gravel that don't have sharp edge. Play sand or pool sand will do fine.


I am not sure if that helps or not.


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## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

I used the natural gravel King Eds sold by the 40 or 50lb bag. Was not very expensive (I think $5 or $10 a few years ago) and looks decent in any tank. Really your 3 functional options are bare bottom, 3m sand, or gravel. Whatever you pick for gravel, just make sure it has edges that are worn relatively smooth. I'm not a SW guy and not that familiar with the reef substrates, but I would be skeptical of anything labelled as 'sand'; case in point the people who've tried Tahitian moon sand have hurt or killed their rays. Rays and sharp silica don't mix, nor would you want a substrate that alters water chemistry. As for the value of sand... Well saying rays need sand is like saying tetras and barbs need planted tanks; in the end all that matters is your preference. Plants (or sand in ray tanks) do not make up for poor fish keeping practices, but excellent husbandry practices can more than compensate for lack of plants (or sand for your ray). Besides, a ray kept on gravel will still sift gravel searching for food, still bury themselves, still look like a ray, and still act like a ray. 

Anyways, I'm glad you're asking the questions now, and if you haven't already, take a look at some of the stickies on MFK and read a few articles on ray keeping. The last two stickies on the stingray forum may be of particular interest to you.


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## Gregzz4 (Jun 25, 2010)

sunshine_1965 said:


> Bob I sent hondas3000 a pm to see if he can help with substrate suggestions. He breeds rays or did at one point not long ago.
> 
> This was his reply to me.
> 
> ...


hondas3000 is a neighbor of mine and, last time I looked, he isn't breeding Rays
He loves exotic Rays, and buys whatever he can find
He does know a lot about them
Last time I saw his tank it was bare-bottom and lots of flow to his filters
So much for a sand-bed



DBam said:


> I used the natural gravel King Eds sold by the 40 or 50lb bag. Was not very expensive (I think $5 or $10 a few years ago) and looks decent in any tank. Really your 3 functional options are bare bottom, 3m sand, or gravel. Whatever you pick for gravel, just make sure it has edges that are worn relatively smooth. I'm not a SW guy and not that familiar with the reef substrates, but I would be skeptical of anything labelled as 'sand'; case in point the people who've tried Tahitian moon sand have hurt or killed their rays. Rays and sharp silica don't mix, nor would you want a substrate that alters water chemistry. As for the value of sand... Well saying rays need sand is like saying tetras and barbs need planted tanks; in the end all that matters is your preference. Plants (or sand in ray tanks) do not make up for poor fish keeping practices, but excellent husbandry practices can more than compensate for lack of plants (or sand for your ray). Besides, a ray kept on gravel will still sift gravel searching for food, still bury themselves, still look like a ray, and still act like a ray.
> 
> Anyways, I'm glad you're asking the questions now, and if you haven't already, take a look at some of the stickies on MFK and read a few articles on ray keeping. The last two stickies on the stingray forum may be of particular interest to you.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

thank you guys!! that really helps I'm definitely steering towards natural smooth gravel from king eds! i'm not a bare bottom guy lol i have two discus tanks with bare bottom not fussy with it!

Thank you all!! 

I don't like dealing with sand anyways lol so this is good news I don't have to use!! now to study about Rays and find a ray to buy!!
I guess i could always add gravel later!!


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

Bob you can get pool filters sand at southern drip in chilliwack on industrial road (old yale) thats where I got mine it also comes in different grain sizes


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

And bob I keep saying this on here and not like it cant be done but try to get a mature ray instead or raising the little guys. I just find them so fussy lost one to starvation because all it would eat was worms like 5-8 a day and I just couldn't keep up getting them


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Do bare bottom, gravels, 3M sand, or even tile. Only reason I dont like playsand; just like everyone said, too fine and get kill your filter pretty easy. I don't know where you will find 3M sand nowaday. I think someone did a group order and got them from USA. I remember fantasy aquatics (a sponsor here) also sells them. You might want to give them a call.

Getting a smaller ray is fine if it is a motoro type. I always give warning about getting a teacup as they will be a picky eater. They are more of an advance ray keeper.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

What kind of tile? and where are good places to buy a motoro Ray? from you Charles??


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

i dont have any. Best I can do is marble motoro at size 15-20cm. They are about $200-$250 each depends on color and pattern. 

Try find some 3M S-grade first, if not, go bare bottom.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Great thank you Charles! do you have any black ones?


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