# Ich and temp



## Fish rookie

Is it true that ich will die by themselves when temp is over 85F?
Does that mean if I increase the temp of the hospital tank to 85F+ I dont need to add any medication and the fish will be free of ich after a few days?
Thank you.


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## Diztrbd1

if I'm not mistaken, it just speeds up the life cycle. I usually use meds or aquarium salt along with raising the temp. IME it will take more than a couple days & you should do w/c's every day or two...I'm no expert...just my experience

might find some useful post in this threads as well:
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/hospital-section-12/best-cure-ich-19024/
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/freshwater-chat-9/ich-help-22816/


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## Momobobo

Thats what I have read as well...increased temperature just speeds up their life cycles. You still need salt or medication to get rid of them.


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## djamm

What's worked well for me is raise the temp to like 85 +/- 2 degrees F and John is correct it speeds up the life cycle. Then for meds I treat with Quick Cure (malachite green). For loaches and tetra's 1/2 recommended dosing for 3 days then a big water change. That has worked every time for me. I generally don't feed much the first day or two of the treatment. I have had very good results with this... Although, I have lost one or two fish usually because I have not been right on top of it!

Good Luck


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## charles

no point to use a hospital tank to treat ich. You need to treat the whole tank.
I use medication and raise temperature.


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## Lamplighter

Raising the temperature does help but it's not a 100% cure all of the time. Fish that are in the tank can still die before the brakes are put on the protozoan infection. School is still out in regards to what causes the outbreak. Some feel that the protozoans are there all the time just waiting to surface.

But you have to ask yourself what caused the infection in the first place and what you can do to prevent it. A lousy diet, low water temperature, poor water quality are all factors that apparently contribute to an ich outbreak. Introduction of new fish? A UV filter goes a long way in prevention the protozoans from reproducing, you can buy one for less than a hundred bucks.


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## Fish rookie

Thank you very much, I asked this question after reading this article:
Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
In the article, it was quoted: 
It has been found that Ich does not infect new fish at 29.4°C/85°F (Johnson, 1976), stops reproducing at 30°C/86°F (Dr. Nick St. Erne, DVM, pers. comm.), and dies at 32°C/89.5°F (Meyer, 1984), [1]


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## Lamplighter

Fish rookie said:


> Thank you very much, I asked this question after reading this article:
> Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
> In the article, it was quoted:
> It has been found that Ich does not infect new fish at 29.4°C/85°F (Johnson, 1976), stops reproducing at 30°C/86°F (Dr. Nick St. Erne, DVM, pers. comm.), and dies at 32°C/89.5°F (Meyer, 1984), [1]


 Interesting article!

You'll note that they recommend boiling the filter cartridge for a few minutes to kill any stage of ich that may exist.

There's no such thing as spontaneous generation that gives life from inanimate matter. Barring the introduction of new fish/plants to the tank how does ich appear? It must lie dormant waiting for the opportunity to surface.

In any event if the author of the article is correct then the only way to kill ich is to boil the water in the tank including the fish.


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## Fish rookie

Lamplighter said:


> In any event if the author of the article is correct then the only way to kill ich is to boil the water in the tank including the fish.


may I ask how did you draw this conclusion?
From what I understand it was only recommended that the temp of the water be raised above a certain point to stop ich from reproduction and from survvcing in its free swimming stage.
No where did I read any recommendation of boiling the water with the fish?
Could you please elaborate your above statement?


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## Fish rookie

Lamplighter said:


> There's no such thing as spontaneous generation that gives life from inanimate matter. Barring the introduction of new fish/plants to the tank how does ich appear? It must lie dormant waiting for the opportunity to surface.
> 
> In any event if the author of the article is correct then the only way to kill ich is to boil the water in the tank including the fish.


I am not sure if anyone has sucessfully proven that ich is present in all aquarium waiting for the right moment to surface...

Please understand I am not trying to start an argument, but just really want to learn more about this common illness...do you have any link?

In this article (Aquarium Ich: Ichthyophthirius multifilis & Cryptocaryon treatment, identification, life cycle.) the author has done some experiemnt and he stated that ich, in his opinion, is not alwasy present in any tank being dormant. I have taken some some of the article here for your reference but I would really recommend that you read the whole articel.

Ich is NOT always present in an aquarium, despite many anecdotal claims made in forums, articles or by aquarium store employees (often to cover up for poor quality stock).
I have conducted tests (and read others as well) where by I killed off any Ich (if there was any depending on the control group) and then subjected the fish to many stressors that commonly bring on Ich such as sudden temperature drops with NO resulting Ich outbreaks.
It is important to note that the Ich protozoan cannot live outside water and if dried, its cell wall would collapse permanently destroying this single cell parasite so this point also makes migration of Ich from anything other than transport via infected fish or similar water transfer impossible. This also goes for marine Ich (Cryptocaryon) which I almost never had problems with in tanks where all fish were carefully added and there were no previous outbreaks.

Would like to hear your thought. Thank you.

Upon re-reading of the above articel I notice that pure heat method was also mentioned. Basiclaly, the pure heat method is very simple. Temp of water is raised above 85F which can stop ich from reproducing and the free swimming ich will be killed as they cannot survive at a high temp. But it was also mentioned that this method only works with fish that can tolerate high temp and also ich has a higher chance of returning with the heat method than some other chemical method.


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## Lamplighter

Fish rookie said:


> Please understand I am not trying to start an argument, but just really want to learn more about this common illness...do you have any link?


No argument from me and I'm sorry if it seemed that way.


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## Fish rookie

No, it is cool. I am just really curious is it really true that ich is present in all tanks?.


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## Fish rookie

charles said:


> no point to use a hospital tank to treat ich. You need to treat the whole tank.
> I use medication and raise temperature.


May I ask what medication do you recommend, please?
Will Paraguard work?


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## Lamplighter

Fish rookie said:


> may I ask how did you draw this conclusion?
> From what I understand it was only recommended that the temp of the water be raised above a certain point to stop ich from reproduction and from survvcing in its free swimming stage.
> No where did I read any recommendation of boiling the water with the fish?
> Could you please elaborate your above statement?


I was going to let it go but...

Snip from the article that you posted a link to:

_Use a Micron Filter. The Aqua Clear Quick Filter used with a power head is an easy and inexpensive way to capture both free-swimming stages and the cysts of Ich in water that passes through the filter. A diatom filter can also be used. Both of these filters trap particles as small as one micron in size. The smallest stage of Ich, the free-swimming, swarming tomite, is approximately 30 microns, large enough to be trapped in this type of filter. Change the filter daily with the water changes. The Quick Filter cartridge can be cleaned and reused. *Rinse thoroughly in very hot water, or boil for a few minutes to kill any stage of Ich that may be trapped inside *. Or use a fresh cartridge. Make sure your fish are comfortable with the current caused by the additional filter._

I think it states quite clearly that the filter should be boiled to kill any stage of ich. So a temperature of 86*F over a few days will kill ich but you have to boil the filter. I'd like the Dr. that wrote it explain that to me.


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## mrbob

Hi,

I have a problem im new to fish keeping (3 months 7 tanks) last night I noticed my Bala sharks had white spots i put them in hospital tank and treated for ich one has white over one eye other discolored today i found my clown fish and twig fish and dolphin dead other two young balas are swimming straight up and down darting once and awhile and like floating? also have angels 20 young all seem to be fine shaking a bit once in a while and a few bottom fish Raphael cat fish is not doing well black ghost knife doing good dwarf parrots ok glass cat fish ok please help lost 5 fish already died 50% water change nitrate down to 40 was 80 (due to well water have since switched to district water for fish no nitrates) nitrite 0 ammonia .12 ph 7.6 have turned lights off to lower stress should I be getting meds due to one shark i removed hat clouded eye?? i have not done any treatment yet just w/c didn't want to use super ich due to ghost knifes PLEASE HELP


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## Fish rookie

Lamplighter said:


> I was going to let it go but...
> 
> Snip from the article that you posted a link to:
> 
> _Use a Micron Filter. The Aqua Clear Quick Filter used with a power head is an easy and inexpensive way to capture both free-swimming stages and the cysts of Ich in water that passes through the filter. A diatom filter can also be used. Both of these filters trap particles as small as one micron in size. The smallest stage of Ich, the free-swimming, swarming tomite, is approximately 30 microns, large enough to be trapped in this type of filter. Change the filter daily with the water changes. The Quick Filter cartridge can be cleaned and reused. *Rinse thoroughly in very hot water, or boil for a few minutes to kill any stage of Ich that may be trapped inside *. Or use a fresh cartridge. Make sure your fish are comfortable with the current caused by the additional filter._
> 
> I think it states quite clearly that the filter should be boiled to kill any stage of ich. So a temperature of 86*F over a few days will kill ich but you have to boil the filter. I'd like the Dr. that wrote it explain that to me.





Lamplighter said:


> In any event if the author of the article is correct then the only way to kill ich is to boil the water in the tank including the fish.


Think to boil or to raise the filter cartridge in very hot water was suggested in order to kill the ick that might have been trapped in the media nd survive the high temperature...The author did not say to boil the water with the fish though. 

Anyway, I think you have raised a good point about whether ich is dormant in all tank and I really want to hear what everyone has to say about that. It would be interesting to see experiments data and result if such are available. So far, I have not seen any solid proof that such a claim is true....but I am sure there are lots of things I dont know and have not read so...


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## Lamplighter

Fish rookie said:


> Think to boil or to raise the filter cartridge in very hot water is suggested in order to kill the ick that might have been trapped into the media...
> 
> But it did not say boil the water with the fish, did it?


Think about it!


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## Diztrbd1

mrbob said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a problem im new to fish keeping (3 months 7 tanks) last night I noticed my Bala sharks had white spots i put them in hospital tank and treated for ich one has white over one eye other discolored today i found my clown fish and twig fish and dolphin dead other two young balas are swimming straight up and down darting once and awhile and like floating? also have angels 20 young all seem to be fine shaking a bit once in a while and a few bottom fish Raphael cat fish is not doing well black ghost knife doing good dwarf parrots ok glass cat fish ok please help lost 5 fish already died 50% water change nitrate down to 40 was 80 (due to well water have since switched to district water for fish no nitrates) nitrite 0 ammonia .12 ph 7.6 have turned lights off to lower stress should I be getting meds due to one shark i removed hat clouded eye?? i have not done any treatment yet just w/c didn't want to use super ich due to ghost knifes PLEASE HELP


w/c's are not going to solve the problem IME....you need to raise the temp for starters and use meds and or salt. If you have meds, use the half dose (as recommended for scaleless fish like the clown loaches) I'd worry about the ich , before the cloudy eye issue. Cloudy eyes are usually fungal and easy to cure most of the time. Im no expert, but you better get some meds for the ich before you lose more fish IME


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## Fish rookie

Lamplighter said:


> Think about it!


Sorry my friend...not trying to split hairs or pick an agrument...I have thought about it but I am really not sure if I follow...


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## bcorchidguy

I think the idea of ich being in all aquariums comes from a time when tanks had stainless steel corners and still leaked like crazy. 

Basic idea though is, if you get a fish from a fish store and put it in your tank chances are you have ich in your tank, it may be in there for years before a fish gets stressed enough to get spots.

Author is clearly stating boiling the filter media to kill ALL stages of ich that may be trapped so, taking that further, boiling the tank and the fish will kill all stages and leave you with a sterile tank. Other treatments can see outbreaks re occur. And as Lamplighter states, if the author is correct then....

Douglas


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## Lamplighter

The author states quite clearly that the filter should be rinsed in very hot or boiling water to kill the ich. Yes? 

How come 86*F can kill it in the tank? It can't The author is making two conflicting statements. 

I think ich is there all the time waiting for something to weaken the fish and then the outbreak starts.

It's a 100% certain that ich will die in boiling water. 211, 210, 209,...degrees down to ?*F will also do but if you want to make certain that it's DEAD boil the water. Now what about the fish? How do you make sure that they are not contaminated?

In any event I'd use heat and chemicals and then treat the whole tank. Treating individual fish will not work.


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