# I have sold myself to the Devil and jumped over the "Dark Side"



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

I've been an aquarist for more than a decade (on and off) and it's been a long while since I've been contemplating on setting up a salty tank... The multi-thousand $$$ dollar cost including electric bills kept me away from dipping my feet into salt waters. However after seeing those lovely nano tanks and the development of different light technology I was tempted to start my first ever salt water aquarium.

I have learnt that it is very long process and takes a lot of patience, (I thought I was patient enough to keep a successful planted/discus tank) so I thought I would start small and accumulate as much as hardware as I could.... (Now my 57G rimless tank is in the brink of conversion to this project) . 

I have started cycling my 20G tank with an old Coralife CF fixture, all I have is about 15lbs of dead rock, a heater and a couple of power heads. Initially I was thinking of starting a BB tank, but since I'm not putting any filtration I will shab and maybe start with a shallow sand bed or maybe a DSB when able. I'm planning to house a couple of Clowns and some softies as special request by my kids to awaken their interest in this hobby... I need to find allies just in case my wife veto my plans :bigsmile:.

I would like to thank fellow BCA members that convinced me to take into the plunged. If you have comments and suggestions please feel free to do so, I'm a complete Green in this.


----------



## Chewie (Jul 21, 2010)

Welcome to the dark side. You should get a few pounds of live rock to help seed the other rock.


----------



## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

what kind of lighting ?
and welcome


----------



## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

welcome to the dark side


----------



## neoh (Apr 22, 2010)

Joining the dark side - someone said something about cookies.

But I have yet to see any cookies.


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Chewie said:


> Welcome to the dark side. You should get a few pounds of live rock to help seed the other rock.


Thanks Chewie. I'm actually looking for a couple of lbs of live rock to seed my dry/dead rocks... with Coraline Algae is also desirable.



scott tang said:


> what kind of lighting ?
> and welcome


Hi Scott, thank you. I'm using an old Coralife 50/50 Compact Flourescent fixture which I had for quite some time, i was using it on my 20G planted tank. I'm supposed to get a LED fixture from Frank aQ.LED however the plan was vetoed by my budget manager a.k.a. wife :bigsmile:



aQ.LED said:


> welcome to the dark side


Thanks Frank... I'm supposed to order the Zetlight Mini however the plan was vetoed by my budget manager a.k.a. wife. The plan is still there, but pushed back a little bit till I produced the funds. :lol:



neoh said:


> Joining the dark side - someone said something about cookies.
> 
> But I have yet to see any cookies.


That's what I heard too! No Cookies???

So it's trap! Too bad there's no turning back. Just like Hotel California, only check in but no check out :bigsmile:


----------



## msjboy (May 2, 2011)

Hi Crimper
Welcome to becoming a salty.... what part Burnaby are you? I am in upper deer lake. Might be able to help with getting started if you are nearby.'

cheers
msjboy


----------



## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

wate didnt we agree salt was the light side ?


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

msjboy said:


> Hi Crimper
> Welcome to becoming a salty.... what part Burnaby are you? I am in upper deer lake. Might be able to help with getting started if you are nearby.'
> 
> cheers
> msjboy


Thanks msjboy. I live in Bby Hospital area, Im not that far from you.


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

scott tang said:


> wate didnt we agree salt was the light side ?


Either Dark side or Bright Side, there is no turning back for me Scott. I hope it will be a fun ride :bigsmile:


----------



## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Yes, we took a vote at the last reefer meeting and decided to rename it the "Bright side".

I'm in S. Burnaby so pop in some time to talk reef. Bring the family. I can donate a couple of Kenyan tree frags to your project.

Anthony


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Hi Anthony,

It's been a long time since I went to your place... remember that Rena quick release part that you parted just make my XP filter work? You are a true asset to this community.

My kids were so excited about this project, my little guy's eyes lit when I told him that I'm setting up a Nemo tank for them. For some reason they were not fascinated with my other fishes like discus, rainbows etc. Their eyes will popped with they see your tanks.

I will for sure visit you one of this days for some reef talk.

Best Regards,

Mylon


----------



## PurpleMonkey (Nov 28, 2011)

*Welcome to the Dark side*



neoh said:


> Joining the dark side - someone said something about cookies.
> 
> But I have yet to see any cookies.


Sorry Neoh, I dropped them off at Mikes, I guess he never dropped them off? lol

And Crimper, I'm BBY Hospital area as well. Let me know if you ever want to swing by and check out the setup.


----------



## PurpleMonkey (Nov 28, 2011)

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Yes, we took a vote at the last reefer meeting and decided to rename it the "Bright side".
> 
> I'm in S. Burnaby so pop in some time to talk reef. Bring the family. I can donate a couple of Kenyan tree frags to your project.
> 
> Anthony


I will continue to refer to it as the Dark Side... too long in history have good things been referred to as "bright" or "white" with bad and evil being "dark"... lol


----------



## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

forgot to mention come check out my set ups il give you a few zoa frags to help u start


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

PurpleMonkey said:


> Sorry Neoh, I dropped them off at Mikes, I guess he never dropped them off? lol
> 
> And Crimper, I'm BBY Hospital area as well. Let me know if you ever want to swing by and check out the setup.


Thanks a lot PurpleMonkey, I'll pm you if I could drop by. Are you free this weekend?



scott tang said:


> forgot to mention come check out my set ups il give you a few zoa frags to help u start


Wow thanks for your offer Scott. I would love to see your setup and have a reef chat with you.


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Quick question for you guys... what's your opinion on Deep Sand Bed? Is it necessary? As mentioned I only have 20G at the time being but will upgrade to 57G once I got the lightings and some more live rocks. What sand do you recommend?


----------



## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I don't use deep sand beds. Too often they are great at first but cause long term issues when people disturb the established sandbed and release all sorts of nasties into their system. I use a thin layer of sand because we can't stand the look of bare-bottom. Its great for ease of maintenance but unnatural to my eyes.

What I did try was to add a large plastic tub with 6"+ of sand in my 75g sump before and so I could get the anaerobic action of a DSB, but be able to remove it if necessary without disturbing anything.

Anthony


----------



## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

i got an inch in my reef tank and 2-3 in my fish only only reason i havent taken some out is i have a coris wrass and a melinarus wrass


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> I don't use deep sand beds. Too often they are great at first but cause long term issues when people disturb the established sandbed and release all sorts of nasties into their system. I use a thin layer of sand because we can't stand the look of bare-bottom. Its great for ease of maintenance but unnatural to my eyes.
> 
> What I did try was to add a large plastic tub with 6"+ of sand in my 75g sump before and so I could get the anaerobic action of a DSB, but be able to remove it if necessary without disturbing anything.
> 
> Anthony


Thanks again for your input Anthony. I'm trying to stay away from any substrate as it can caused Nitrite issues same experience I got in raising discus, however I have read an article regarding DSB. But most of the post im reading leads to disaster. I should stay away from it until I setup a sump/refugium then.



scott tang said:


> i got an inch in my reef tank and 2-3 in my fish only only reason i havent taken some out is i have a coris wrass and a melinarus wrass


Thanks scott. Based on your experience, does sand gives you anything aside from looks?


----------



## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

not unless you have wrass or tube nems stuff that use sand its prety much usles some people have told me its a filter but it does more bad then good in my opinion open brain coral and plate coral kinda need sand long term as well as some other lps coral


----------



## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm not a salty, but I had DSB briefly explained to me by Charles from Canadian Aquatics not too long ago. He told me that a fully established DSB does a complete cycle, so there is no need for water changes, just water top-offs. 

I don't know any downsides as I'm not a salty, but the advantage of a low maintenance system in my opinion would be completely worth it.


----------



## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

it holds fish crap tho wich means when you desterb it it mucks your tank up


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

It traps organic materials that cause ammonia and nitrites go up to the roof. Exact same reason why discus keeper raise discus in BB tanks. Less maintenance less problems. 

I saw several nice nano BB reef tanks, they intentionally keep it BB for the exact same reason.


----------



## PurpleMonkey (Nov 28, 2011)

Basically, for DSB to be effective, it also needs a larger surface area, which you are not going to get in your setup. Most people who do successfully keep a DSB keep it remote (in sump or separate). Add a thin layer of sand down after you add rock if you want the look. Bare bottom are easier but do limit some corals and fish. As for keeping it clean, a couple of nassarius snails and/or a fighting conch do a great job (or crabs if you like them, I don't).


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks for the tip PurpleMonkey... I'm tryin to send you a pm but your mailbox is full. 

Hope to have a quick reef talk with you this weekend.

Cheers!

Mylon


----------



## The Guy (Nov 26, 2010)

scott tang said:


> wate didnt we agree salt was the light side ?


Yes I think it was officially changed to " The Bright Side " some time back :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

don't know how i missed this bud, welcome to the dark side!! and yes I am hording all of the cookies!


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks Mike. Save some cookies for me pls... :bigsmile:


----------



## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

DSB is great, it actually does a lot to your system as long as you are careful not to...
1)Stir your sand when you doing your maint.
2)Stir the waste under the LR
3)have too much dead spot near the sand bed.

Bare bottom is the "lazy man" version as it need less clean up as long as provide sufficient water flow at the bottom of the tank so your waste doesn't just start piling up. However, in many mix reef or soft coral tank, too much water flow is the main killer for soft corals. So beware of that.


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks for your input Frank, I appreciate you chiming on this and thanks for the tips.


----------



## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Been busy lately... As requested by my buddy jrock, it's time to post a Journal on this Journey :bigsmile:


----------

