# New guy trying to setup aquarium



## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and fairly new to aquariums. I'm currently trying to setup an aquarium and have a few questions. Currently I have a 60g long rectangular tank with stand and canopy from petsmart and thats it. I'm looking at buying a Rena XP canister filter but not sure if I should buy 1 xp3 or 2 xp2's. i get different answers from searching the forum and asking the LPS staff and reading the side of the box on the filters. So how much flow do I need? I've been searching on here for a few days and have found some good info on cycling the tank and filter media I need. I know I will also need a heater but can you guys suggest what other essentials I might want right off the bat.

Another question I have is my daughter wants a community tank with all sorts of different fish she has picked, but I would like to know what types are easy for beginners to start with but still look interesting and can live together.

Also I would like to know if you guys suggest I try plants right away or if I should wait to see if I can manage just fish first. How hard is it to grow plants?

Thanks for the help


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## Kei (May 4, 2010)

plants arent a problem get low light plants. and try. or get java moss . java moss is pretty much impossable to die.


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

If you're new to fish, it might be easier to match fish to your local water conditions. Do you know what your local water parameters are like ie. hard or soft water, (tests for GH & KH) pH levels?

What fish are on your daughter's list now? It might be easier to work by process of elimination or if there's an absolute must have fish, we can suggest compatible tank mates.


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

Welcome to BCA.

For a 60g the box says an XP2 is good up to a 75g aquarium. If you want more flow, save some cash and add a powerhead instead of another filter. It will increase your flow significantly.

You have lights, and will be getting the heater and filter. Beyond that you really don't 'need' anything else to have an aquarium. But to make it look good, you might want some substrate (gravel, sand) and some decor (plants, rocks, wood). Also, a python water changer is a good idea. I swear by mine. So much easier than carrying buckets. Some water conditioner as well.

Some fish I would start with would be danios, tetras, guppies, and platies. They are all peaceful schooling fish and have a variety of colors and shapes. Avoid barbs, sharks, and oscars as they are agressive or will grow way too big. Common pleco will also get really big.

If you are just starting out and haven't kept an aquarium before I would recommend not trying plants right away. Live plants aren't hard to grow, but they are hard to keep looking good, and are a quick way to have algae take over your tank if you aren't careful. I'd start with some good quality plastic or silk plants and then after you have the tank established you could try some live plants. You also need to make sure you will have enough light to grow the plants as well. Most kits don't come with a strong enough light.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

if you want 1 filter, I would get XP3. Best to get 2 XP3. If cost is an concern, get 1 XP3 and 1 AC500. I would not just get 1 XP2.

I believe your water is pretty hard. I would do more in the way of African cichlids.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll have to go home and check her list again, but I don't think she had any "must" haves.

Maybe what I will do is go with a XP3 and a powerhead (is a powerhead a HOB?), I assume that the ac500 that charles suggested is a powerhead?

The water here is quite hard, most people have to run watersofteners in there home.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The AC500 is a Hang On Back filter. And yes the water is very hard, as I kept fish when I lived in Saskatoon. But live bearers like guppies, platies, etc. should do fine in that.

Charles' suggestion of Africans is good also.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

yea i like Charles' suggestion africans are 100x cooler than live bearers as well as hardier


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

So what other kinds of fish do well with Africn chichlids?


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Cleung, you can stay with either the tanganyika cichlids, or Malawi which consists of mainly peacock/haps and mbuna. For color, your better choice is Lake Malawi fish. For different shapes and unique behaviors, I would go with Lake Tanganyika.

Here is something you can check out, Regina aquarium society. I know a few great people there.

Regina Aquarium Society


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

cleung said:


> I'll have to go home and check her list again, but I don't think she had any "must" haves.
> 
> Maybe what I will do is go with a XP3 and a powerhead (is a powerhead a HOB?), I assume that the ac500 that charles suggested is a powerhead?
> 
> The water here is quite hard, most people have to run watersofteners in there home.


Welcome to BCA and good luck with your new set up.
How hard is your water in Sask. ? If it's between pH 7.0 and 8.0, that's fine - most tropicals will do well in it. If it's above 8.0, and you don't have a water softener in your home, (and you don't plan on getting one) I would suggest avoiding the use of chemicals to alter it. Over time, driftwood will have the effect of lowering the pH, and the use of peat, if you can get it, will also help - as a natural way of adjusting pH downward.
And btw, a powerhead filter is great for providing a stronger water flow, and good aeration/oxygenation and water circulation. But it's not good on its own for providing good bio-filtration (Beneficial bacteria colonization), so many hobbyists use them in conjunction with canister(s) or HOB(s).
You're on the right track with Rena XP's, but an Aquaclear (AC) 110 is a good choice also.
All the best,
Paul


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

cleung said:


> So what other kinds of fish do well with Africn chichlids?


a bristlenose pleco is a good addition to help keep the glass clean so you dont have to 

there is LOTS of variety among africans, see whats available locally but before buying anything post back what you see that you like and we can help you with compatability

heres an article about them: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.php

welcome to BCA


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks for all the helpful tips everyone. I'm not exactly sure how hard the water is I just know its fairly hard. I do however have a water softener at home, is it safe to use the softened water for the aquarium?

I took a look at my daughters list of fish she likes and its kinda all over the place.

tetras
plecos
bala sharks
chichlids
angels

Although I'm pretty sure she will be happy with almost anything right now. Is there anything that these suggested fish like in the aquarium (driftwood, rocks etc) that I should think about?

How important is lighting? I noticed that I lot of people are going with various LED setups and moon lighting? Is this something I should look into or is the tubes that came with the tank sufficient?

thanks again for all the help and links.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Cleung,

After aquiring all the equipment you need, you should invest in a few testing kits or a master set (PH/Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/GH/KH) to get an idea where your water perimeters stand at.Theres numerous brands available , just do some research and pick the one(s) that are affordable for you.Cosmetic stuff such as driftwood,caves,rocks add a 'real' element to the setup and provide a safer and natural feel for your fish.Some species you mentioned in your previous post will benefit from this.Plants, are another ballgame and should be researched well to accomodate the fish and your aquarium.They have their own requirements , but can benefit you in the long run with aiding your water perimeters or being a food source for some fish if thats the case,hope it isnt but it occurs.

As for adding water softners, iam personally not a fan as they cause too much instability.Theres natural ways to go about it such as using a good amount of driftwood,almond leaves, or applying peat in your filter compartment , or substrate to name a few.With the list of fish provided by your daughter , most can be kept together but the bala sharks require lots of space to be active.They also put on size quickly,feel safer in bigger groups.You should aim to have fish occupying the top-middle-and bottom levels of your aquarium.Iam sure a few others will chime in and give more pointers, feel free to ask more questions ! 

Good luck , and have fun setting up 

Luke


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I wouldn't use softened water since most of the exchange resins release Na and/or K into the water by chelating the Ca/Mg out of the water. So your TDS (total dissolved solids) is still very high. Do you drink the softened water? Most people I knew when I lived there had a bypass for cooking in the kitchen since the softened water was salty. I'd use the regular water and keep fish compatible with it or use the methods that Luke suggested. Also, most fish will adapt to the harder water. Spencer Jacks in Winnipeg has lots of fish from South America and I don't believe he runs RO to lower TDS. IMO, that would be the only proper way to have softer/lower TDS water, is to run RODI.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

This is why I asked about the softened water. We have a bypass tap in the kitchen because as far as I know you are not supposed to drink the softened water.

i was at the LPS today and they have all sorts of stuff. They have spotted plecos and sailfin plecos? but no brisslenose. Also they have a few lake malawi's, and african chichlids. The trouble is they didn't have them labeled and I can't tell what they were specifically, the tanks just said "various"

I did see some chichlids that I liked
convict
colbalt blue
electric yellow
Basically we are interested in some brightly colored/interesting fish. do these fish get very big? How many would one typically put in a 60g tank?


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

charles said:


> Cleung, you can stay with either the tanganyika cichlids, or Malawi which consists of mainly peacock/haps and mbuna. For color, your better choice is Lake Malawi fish. For different shapes and unique behaviors, I would go with Lake Tanganyika.
> 
> Here is something you can check out, Regina aquarium society. I know a few great people there.
> 
> Regina Aquarium Society





emile said:


> Welcome to BCA and good luck with your new set up.
> How hard is your water in Sask. ? If it's between pH 7.0 and 8.0, that's fine - most tropicals will do well in it. If it's above 8.0, and you don't have a water softener in your home, (and you don't plan on getting one) I would suggest avoiding the use of chemicals to alter it. Over time, driftwood will have the effect of lowering the pH, and the use of peat, if you can get it, will also help - as a natural way of adjusting pH downward.
> And btw, a powerhead filter is great for providing a stronger water flow, and good aeration/oxygenation and water circulation. But it's not good on its own for providing good bio-filtration (Beneficial bacteria colonization), so many hobbyists use them in conjunction with canister(s) or HOB(s).
> You're on the right track with Rena XP's, but an Aquaclear (AC) 110 is a good choice also.
> ...


So for a powerhead is something like the maxi-jet what I'm looking for?


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

cleung said:


> So for a powerhead is something like the maxi-jet what I'm looking for?


the cobalt blue and yellow lab/electric yellow are malawi cichlids if you like those, theres about a thousand more where they came from and lots of bright colors  the general rule of thumb is 1 inch of adult fish per gallon but you can push it a bit with africans populations are very dense in their natural environment

yes, a maxijet or the hydor koralia are quieter + take less power + have magnetic suction cups if your ok spending a bit more $

do you have any test kits yet? consider getting a master one that includes ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ as well as GH and KH test kits

telling us the KH, GH, and PH would help so we know just how hard the water is instead of speculating

il send u a pm with articles about the fish you like incl the convict


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll have to go pick up a test kit and test the water. I'm moving rather slow on this because the wall that we want to put the tank against my wife wants to paint, so I will have to paint it before filling the tank. So for testing the water, should I just go pickup a kit and then test my tap water straight from the tap?

The reason I mention the maxi-jet is because they are on sale at JL's right now.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

cleung said:


> I'll have to go pick up a test kit and test the water. I'm moving rather slow on this because the wall that we want to put the tank against my wife wants to paint, so I will have to paint it before filling the tank. So for testing the water, should I just go pickup a kit and then test my tap water straight from the tap?
> 
> The reason I mention the maxi-jet is because they are on sale at JL's right now.


yep the maxijet can even be used to help drain your tank

and yes test the water straight from the tap, the bypass unsoftened water.


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a max-jet 400 in my tank with the sure-flow mod and it is great. Lots of flow. I also got the magnetic holder for it.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

target said:


> I have a max-jet 400 in my tank with the sure-flow mod and it is great. Lots of flow. I also got the magnetic holder for it.


 u can get magnetic holders for them?? awesome i got 2 maxi 1200 pros i need to get those for.. was it just magnetic suction cups you bought separately or made for the maxijet?


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

It was this one: Algae Free Suregrip 50 Powerhead Holder

It is made to fit the max-jet powerheads. Works awesome.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

So I went and bought a mini test kit and didn't realize that it didn't have the GH and KH tests, but I did test my pH levels and they look like about 7.0


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

cleung said:


> So I went and bought a mini test kit and didn't realize that it didn't have the GH and KH tests, but I did test my pH levels and they look like about 7.0


Did you buy an API test kit? They sell GH/KH test kits separately, easier to stick with the same brand. I'm really curious what the KH readings would be with a pH of 7.0.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Ideal pH - you're good to go.
Sask.'s water isn't that hard then - at least not where you are.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Ok tested my GH and KH, GH is 240 and KH is 150. So according to the test kit my GH is very high and water is very hard, and my KH is high which is good?


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Interesting, high KH with a neutal pH. Just means that your pH will be very stable. Is this out of the tap? Could you measure the water parameters after it's been aged overnight and aerated? Just wondering if they change after your water has had a chance to outgas...


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Well I just tested the water that I had sitting overnight from yesterday when I tested, and everything a slightly different now. I have a pH of 7.5 and GH of about 260-280 and kH of about 130


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

That makes more sense, I would use those values going forward.

If you buy your fish from your local fish stores, they've probably been already acclimated to your local water unless they are using ro water or something to soften it. Best to ask the fish store and if it's just local water, most of whatever they are selling should do ok. Just a matter of finding what's available locally and going from there.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

thanks for the help


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Alright guys, You have all been lots of help earlier and I've kind of left the tank till now. So I'm back trying to get this setup. I've purchased 2 hydor powerheads and 2 xp3 filters. Not sure if I need all that but I bought them used as pairs. Anyways my question now is what filtration media do I need/want in my xp3's?


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## Acipenser (Apr 21, 2010)

you could set up the XP3's diferently, fill one say with only scrubbies or a scrubie foam combo and use the second xp 3 with say foam floss and carbon, Or you could keep the second xp3 as a spare filter. I would go that route and place the power heads in the rear oposite corners of the tank .


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

I was thinking that I would only use one xp3 and save the other for a different tank. But I'm not sure what media to use. Should I use some foam pads then seachem matrix then ???


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## Acipenser (Apr 21, 2010)

Did any media come with the filters ? If not you could use a foam pad on the bottom then go with pot scrubies from a dollar store in the middle basket and finally carbon in the top (Trying to remember the flow pattern on Rena filters) or the opposite depending on the flow pattern, I think I would personaly keep a Hob running on the tank if you have room fro it depending on whether its right up against the wall or not, that way you can quickly add or remove things like carbon with out having to take apart the XP3 . Then you can load the XP# full of bio media and only clean out the foam pad every now and then.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

my canisters are empty and unfortunately I don't have very much room behind the aquarium. I was thinking pot scrubbers in bottom, purigen in middle then matrix at top.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

That sounds like a good mix. You could also try adding a layer of filter floss just above the Purigen for superior water clarifying. You may need to replace it at regular intervals to preclude any clogging/water flow slowing. Works extremely well for me, but in an HOB.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Now that I got the filter media part solved, on to heaters.

How does everyone feel about inline heaters? I like the idea of having a clean looking tank without a bunch of stuff hanging from it, but are inline heaters worth their money? I'm looking at the hydor inline heater but current backordered with J&L.

Also I'm having a hard time finding black substrate and I don't want to pay the LPS prices, any ideas? How hard is it to clean sand? Will something like the python just suck it all up when I'm trying to clean?


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

I seem to go through regular glass heaters like candy. I've had a few failures from different manufacturers. The thermostats in these heaters are cheap to keep the price of heaters low. I have 3 of the inline Hydors, no failures and they keep the temperatures rock steady. Only issue I have is that it's too easy to change the temp setting accidently, otherwise they are great heaters.

Sand is a great option, but I haven't come across black sand outside of a LFS. Pool filter sand in tan or white, much easier to rinse clean than playground sand. You wouldn't bury your python into the sand, you can't gravel vac sand that way without sucking out too much sand. I find it easier to hover the vac attachment over the sand after stirring up the sandbed with my fingers or other tool. You will pick up sand anyways, but if you use a bucket or container at the drain end, it will catch loose sand, rinse it clean and dump it back into the tank. Just make sure your container doesn't cover up the drain!

Pool Filter Sand Part 2

Sand for the Aquarium


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Well looks like I just have to wait for J&L to get more stock on the inline heater then. Thanks for the links, I think I'll be ok with white sand so I guess I'll have a look at the local pool supplies store. What should I expect to pay for pool filter sand?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

200 watters are instock: Hydor Inline Heater (200 Watt)


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## Zeron (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Als Pets Canada also has the Hydor inlines. Their list price is higher than J&L, but with the discount code from this site and the free shipping it should work out cheaper.

I use Hydor inline heaters on all my takes - they work great.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

I was waiting on J&L because I had some other stuff I needed to buy and wanted to get the free shipping (spend $100). I was thinking to get the 300w, but do you think the 200W is enough for my 65gal?

I was just down at the local pool supply shop and got 2 50lb bags of pool filter sand, hopefully that is enough because that's all he had in stock. Funny thing is that he knew right away what I was wanting the sand for, he says no one in town uses sand for pool filters anymore and the only reason he brings the stuff in is for aquarists and he has to bring in like 10 bags a month.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

100 lbs is more than enough for a 65 gallon. And unless your room is more than 10 degrees C cooler than your tank, a 200w is more than enough. I am using a 300 w in a 95 gallon (roughly) tank which houses discus and the tank is 9 degrees warmer than the room.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Well I'm looking to keep Malawi cichlids and in the winter I allow my house to drop to aobut 16 celcius over night.


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## Zeron (Apr 23, 2010)

HYDOR componenti per acquari
On that site Hydor has their sizing recommendation for 8C and 10C deltas.


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## cleung (Apr 26, 2011)

Well if I'm reading that chart right it looks like I want the 300W 5/8's heater.


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