# Water Damage!



## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

We have engineered wood in our place and 2 weeks ago our dishwasher broke and there was water all over the place. Apparently a crack opened up and all the water went underneath the "floating" wood flooring. We could hear the squishy noise when we walk in the kitchen area. 

I recently noticed some mold creeping up in some corners and the worst part is the wood flooring is expanding. There are rifts in the kitchen. Outside the kitchen, the wood is bulging upwards and its very high... and its getting worse every day!

I have no idea what to do in this scenario. My dad says leave it as we dont have enough money to fix it, but if we leave it, would the situation become much worse? (mold creep and wood floor breaking up).

We already have to replace the dish washer...what should I do about the flooring? I am sure we have some experts here who have experience with this stuff, so please guide me towards the right path.


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## Punkys Dad (Apr 25, 2010)

The mold is scary. Especially when my wife has asthma. 
I ended up tearing up my flooring including the bottom 6 inches of wallboard perimeter and replacing it after everything's dried out.
Do you have insurance?


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## Kitsune (Jul 17, 2010)

Do you have home/tenant insurance? Water damage is covered under that.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

I live in a high-rise apartment so the insurance part is covered on my strata fees, so I dont know too much details about it yet. I need to go take a look at some papers tonight after I get home.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Sorry to hear about that. You need to get your place dried out immediately. Mold is a health hazard so you should get that taken care of. Look into your insurance policy and see if its covered. Also, sounds like you will need to remove the floor to get everything dry to prevent mold from recurring. Those engineered wood floors usually have a foam underlayment which will be like a sponge. Hope the insurance will cover it all. Good luck.

PS. Beware the strata insurance. Usually it only covers common area stuff. So if the issue is within the confines of your unit, its not covered. Just check to be sure.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

tony1928 said:


> PS. Beware the strata insurance. Usually it only covers common area stuff. So if the issue is within the confines of your unit, its not covered. Just check to be sure.


Thats what I am worried about 

I am already in debt because I was out of a job for half a year and now I have to deal with this...The problem is that if I call my building manager, he would ofcourse want to get it fixed right away, but who is going to pay for it? I cant afford to pay for it at my current situation. Owning an apartment sux big time...

How much would it cost to replace if I do it myself? 
I want to replace the flooring with tiles or vinyl...whichever is water proof.


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## alym (Apr 21, 2010)

Smiladon said:


> Thats what I am worried about
> 
> I am already in debt because I was out of a job for half a year and now I have to deal with this...The problem is that if I call my building manager, he would ofcourse want to get it fixed right away, but who is going to pay for it? I cant afford to pay for it at my current situation. Owning an apartment sux big time...
> 
> ...


Be *VERY* careful here -- if you are uninsured, and if your dishwasher has leaked, odds are reasonably good that it leaked into the subfloor -- if your lower neighbor gets mold on his ceiling, or if the water is not dealt with, you may be liable for repairing ALL the damage that the leak caused - not to be a fear monger but if you are not paying insurance on your own place, you should definitely make sure, at the very least, that you use blowers to dry the water damage, or you could be stuck with a very hefty bill.


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## Baos (Apr 22, 2010)

I've seen people who left their water flood too long. I recall tearing out the bottom few feet of drywall for the entire unit. 

On another note my sister lived in an apartment that for whatever reason seemed to get water in the outside wall. It would seep through the paint. She found spray nine(bought at canadian tire and bubbles) would kill the mold for longer durations than any other cleaner.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I would just suggest that you clear out the kitche and lift up the floor and whatever else may be wet and rent/borrow a commercial dehumidifier and just dry the heck out of the place. Even a big fan with a heater and an opened window would work. The floor is ruined anyways. Being in a highrise, your floor is probably concrete so that should limit subfloor issues. Is your damage confined to the kitchen?


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

Smiladon said:


> I live in a high-rise apartment so the insurance part is covered on my strata fees, so I dont know too much details about it yet. I need to go take a look at some papers tonight after I get home.


Your insurance will cover for that and will send some restoration company to clean and get all the water out for you. Your insurance will also cover for everything that your building come with originally, so any upgrade on your house and floor will not get cover only private insurance will cover for your upgrading. So contact your strata asap so they can come and clean up the mold and mess. I am dealing with leaking condo everyday here so I know your is cover.


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## FatKid (Jun 25, 2010)

You'll have to check with your strata on their type of insurance. A lot of strata's only cover damage if it's over a certain amount. Otherwise it gets too expensive if you cover all of the little stuff. As others have said, get the floor lifted, dry it all out with a big fan or three and see just how bad it is. If the flooring has bowed, it's garbage anyways. It should be concrete underneath so you'll probably only have to worry about how far it has creeped up the drywall. Hopefully not too far. You can find new flooring pretty cheap these days if you look around for it. Tile will be more expensive to put in than replacing the wood, and laminate is gross for resale. Depends where you're at.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

tony1928 said:


> I would just suggest that you clear out the kitche and lift up the floor and whatever else may be wet and rent/borrow a commercial dehumidifier and just dry the heck out of the place. Even a big fan with a heater and an opened window would work. The floor is ruined anyways. Being in a highrise, your floor is probably concrete so that should limit subfloor issues. Is your damage confined to the kitchen?


The problem is that this is engineered hardwood...its really dry in the top, but its wet inside...aka underneath the top layer. 
The kitchen and half of the living room is affected...it could be more, but I think the damage might be more...



hondas3000 said:


> Your insurance will cover for that and will send some restoration company to clean and get all the water out for you. Your insurance will also cover for everything that your building come with originally, so any upgrade on your house and floor will not get cover only private insurance will cover for your upgrading. So contact your strata asap so they can come and clean up the mold and mess. I am dealing with leaking condo everyday here so I know your is cover.


Thanks for this info, but the problem is that our current floor is not the original floor...the people before me replaced the original carpet with "crappy & cheap" engineered hardwood, so I am not sure if it is covered...


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## alym (Apr 21, 2010)

Also, strata deductibles are usually on the order of 25k...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

Smiladon said:


> Thanks for this info, but the problem is that our current floor is not the original floor...the people before me replaced the original carpet with "crappy & cheap" engineered hardwood, so I am not sure if it is covered...


Like I said the condo insurance will pay for the basic original floor only and you can put a bit more in to have your floor upgrade again. What good about insurance is that they will send out professional and fix all the damage so you don't have to worry about the mold and other stuff in future. Let strata deal with it, so you just call up and report.


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

alym said:


> Also, strata deductibles are usually on the order of 25k...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is only 5k, so if it is less then strata just put out the money for it. For a house it is about $500 deductible.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

I never put my trust in engineered floor. If there is still water under, you wood will keep swellling.

If you look hard enough, you should be abe to get tile done $6 /sf. $3 for material, $3 for labour.


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## Tracers (Apr 21, 2010)

Strata won't pay. They will take care of everything to make sure its fixed, and send your insurance company the bill. 

I've had 5 floods in my place since i bought it. Put in new laminate when I moved in, I can tell you exactly whats going to happen.

1.) commercial de-humidifiers come in & run until the moisture is gone. Or until the reno guys remember to pick it up. (happened twice, once had em running for 3 weeks straight, second time it was almost 2 months!!)

2.) Insurance guys come in with reno guys, take pics, start ripping.

3.) reno guys either take keys or insist you leave your apt unlocked and come and go over the next 6 months without notice to do repairs. Illegal yes, care? no.

4.) Strata sends you BIG bill for remainder portion that your insurance wont cover.

5.) Insurance comes to collect your deductable.

6.) You will be responsible for calling your flooring guys and paying for it until insurance send you the cheque. Can take up to a year....

Here's what I would do if I were you:

-Rent a water detector thingy, its like a stud finder but beeps when it detects water. You'll need to check the bottom of the walls/cupboards too, in case of wicking.

-Pull up the most damaged boards, if you want. The last flood they left it all down and the water still evapped (tho it was a few weeks later).

-Depending on the size of the damage, rent at least one commercial de-humidifier and run continuously until water detector doesnt beep anymore.

-Re-use what you can of the wood, re-arrange so that the missing parts are in one area so if you tile it looks like it was intentionally done. 

With the help of the wonderful ppl on this forum, combined with some good ole fashioned elbow grease I bet you can get 'er done for less than the $500 deductable.


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## Tracers (Apr 21, 2010)

OR, you can also do what I did when my marine battery leaked acid over about 16 of my boards. Cover it with a rug and price check in the US for replacement boards and keep it on file for "one day" or when you sell.

Once it is dry, it wont swell anymore so make sure that is done first and as soon as possible, after that its all cosmetic. Mold will not grow without moisture.

My boards are a third of the cost in the US than here so keep that in mind too.


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## JUICE (Jan 4, 2020)

PS. Beware the strata insurance. Usually it only covers common area stuff. So if the issue is within the confines of your unit, its not covered. Just check to be sure.[/QUOTE]

also be careful whom you let in from in from the strata , you might want to check the bylaws of tank sizes first !! trust me ive been there 

the biggest tank allowed under my bylaws is 33gals ...  

i had a water claim last yr , no details but the strata insurance payed for all structure , and my home insurance covered the strata deductable and contents ...


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## alym (Apr 21, 2010)

Exactly -- my dad is a project manager for a big restoration company so I have seen this process many times -- the OP seemed to imply, unless I read it wrong, that he is *only* covered by strata... rather than read into it, this would certainly be an important point to clarify!



Tracers said:


> Strata won't pay. They will take care of everything to make sure its fixed, and send your insurance company the bill.
> 
> I've had 5 floods in my place since i bought it. Put in new laminate when I moved in, I can tell you exactly whats going to happen.
> 
> ...


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## Tracers (Apr 21, 2010)

lol been there too juice!! im allowed one dog or one cat or one tank, i got a dog and 3 tanks! 75g, 50g, & 33g lol

Threw every article of clothing, blankets & ironing boards around em to cover em up. they prob think im really messy but I didnt get busted!!!


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## JUICE (Jan 4, 2020)

Tracers said:


> lol been there too juice!! im allowed one dog or one cat or one tank, i got a dog and 3 tanks! 75g, 50g, & 33g lol
> 
> Threw every article of clothing, blankets & ironing boards around em to cover em up. they prob think im really messy but I didnt get busted!!!


ya if "they" only knew what i have in this 600sq ft condo .....


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## Tracers (Apr 21, 2010)

strata insurance only pays for strata leaks. unfortunately this isnt one of them. They will pay for the work to be done and recoup from you/your insurance company.

I would seriously not breathe a word to anyone and dry it out. Cant stress that enough. It will cost you a lot of time/money/stress otherwise.

To give you an idea of what Ive dealt with over the last few years, I saw a water spot in the common hallway outside my batheroom a few weeks ago and I cried for two days until i found out someone spilled something. 


Juice- I have the same *high five*


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

sorry to hear about this Smiladon. If I were you I would get rid of all the flooring that got wet asap. Even if you have to deal with a concrete floor until you come up with a solution, you could always throw some rugs or carpets down till you have a resolution. No matter what you do to dry things , the mold will still be there. If your drywall gets wet , at the bottom, behind the baseboards the mold will also creep its way up there. And tho you have no subfloor since your most likely in a concrete building, the water and mold may still find its way thru to other units. Also the padding/underlay under your wood works as a moisture barrier and therefore will hold the water while the wood continues to soak it up. I install laminate /engineered floors for a living , so it's safe to say I know a little about this lol 
There are cheaper alternatives out there , like laminate flooring which can look just as good and laminate usually has a wax coating on the joints which help to keep future water problems from seeping thru as quick.Home depot has a big sale on flooring right now as well as you can find tons of cheap flooring on Craigslist. If you need some help or tips or whatever when you get the new flooring, feel free to PM me


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

I think if you involve the/a insurace company you will have to disclose the problem/possibility of mold, to prospective purchasers at the time you go to sell.

You may even need to have an eviromental assesment done.

Cheers
Mike in S Surrey


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

It is unfortunate that some restoration take longer then other, and sometime the effect is not just one unit but a lot more, like I just finish with 14 unit and it took me almost 2 months to finish them all as it is not easy to arrange time for repair with owner and some repair do take time and yes we do have priority so unless you let the repair knows. This is a dishwasher so it has nothing to do with owner fault therefore it get cover. You also need to contact strata asap so the water don't get a chance to damage more of the unit beside or underneath you. So it is best get your private insurance with fish tank in it as well, private insurance work much better then condo insurance.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks for all the great information guys.

I've decided to keep quiet about the damage to the strata as I am sure that they will just drain my money (which I dont have). I am thinking of fixing it myself...(by hiring someone to do it for me)

After I came home I checked to make sure that we have concrete flooring. Atleast I am happy that other people wont be bothered by this problem.

I am thinking of replacing the damaged parts of the wood and replacing it with similar pieces. I also want to take this chance to use tiles in my kitchen. Do you guys think its possible to replace only the damaged wood area? 

I am trying to come up with some numbers of how much it would cost me for parts and labor...I am sure someone here knows. If you have any information please let me know.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

If you have a floating engineered wood floor, then it is quite easy to replace only the damaged sections, and not expensive, either. That makes really good sense. Your dishwasher isn't leaking any more, you don't have an ongoing water problem, and so all you have to do is pull out the strips of flooring that were damaged by water, and replace them. In most cases with floating floors, the pieces aren't even nailed or glued into each other, but even if they are, you can just remove a section and redo it. This should work fine and soon your flood will be just a bad memory. Good luck!!


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I think it will be pretty tough for you to just take out the damaged pieces. It will just be very hard to match as you will be super lucky if you found the exact same brand and color of engineered hardwood. Also, I think you will really need to lift up all the wood to make sure you get the place nice and dry to prevent mold. Last thing you want to do is to make the place unsafe for yourself and your family. If you are looking to tile the kitchen, you might get lucky and salvage enough wood in there to replace the bit that got damaged outside of the kitchen. Unfortunately, it sounds from the buckling and lifting you are describing is that this particular type of hardwood isn't liking the water one bit. I have bamboo hardwood currently and it seems to hold up to water pretty well. It is engineered as well but is bamboo all the way through to the bottom.


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## teija (Sep 30, 2010)

I feel I have to comment on some of the things being said in this thread... All homeowners should already be aware of the legalities of home insurance...



hondas3000 said:


> This is a dishwasher so it has nothing to do with owner fault therefore it get cover.


This is DEFINITELY not how it works with our apartment and home insurance, and I am betting ours is a standard rule across the board. A dishwasher, washing machine, toilets, shower/bath, fridge, oven, fireplace, etc are all "appliances" and are all the responsibility of the owner, NOT the strata I'm sorry to say! The ONLY thing that will cover any resulting damage or costs from fault/malfunction/leaks of these is HOME INSURANCE. This is up to the owner to pay for each year. If you don't have that, you will be liable for whatever damage occurs, and whatever damage YOUR appliances cause to other units in the strata. This can amount to thousands of dollars or more.

Strata insurance only covers insurance issues related to the exterior of the building (roof, siding, windows), common and limited common areas and apartment machinery such as the elevators, parking gates, water heater units (if your strata has a centralized hot water system), etc.

Smiladon: Get the mold under control - if you have to remove the flooring then that may be the only way. It is too risky not to. But yes, if you can salvage some of the wood, I would imagine it's not too hard to use it for a new wood & tile floor.

Good luck and I hope it all works out for the best!


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## flannel (Apr 21, 2010)

If you are looking at tile, there is one solution you can do yourself that is so easy to install, is very durable and not too drastically expensive. It's a product called Traffic Master Allure flooring. They are vinyl tiles that look like ceramic tiles. They have peel and stick adhesive, so no messy glue. And at the end, you just grout between them just like ceramic. We've been using them in our rental units at work for a couple years now and they are wonderful, long wearing, easy to clean. They have so far managed to withstand all the crap and abuse tenants have been able to throw at them, including some pretty hefty water leaks. You can just snap and score them with a regular utility knife when installing, no fancy tile cutting saws or anything and the glue they use works quite well. The ceramic tile look has fooled alot of tenants but they feel softer and warmer on a cement floor. Honestly, if I ever have to rip up any of my lino in my house I am totally going to use them. They carry them at Home Depot and are becoming quite popular, so they have quite a few colors to choose from. That's my recommendation to save yourself a few bucks and have a really nice looking durable floor. The same manufacturer also has a newer product that looks like laminate floor, but is really vinyl planks. If the wood flooring look is something you're after, it's doable. We've only tested them in one unit so far but I really like them alot, and the tenant thinks the floor is so pretty lol. So darn easy to install! Go give 'em a look at home depot, see what you think


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

flannel said:


> If you are looking at tile, there is one solution you can do yourself that is so easy to install, is very durable and not too drastically expensive. It's a product called Traffic Master Allure flooring. They are vinyl tiles that look like ceramic tiles. They have peel and stick adhesive, so no messy glue. And at the end, you just grout between them just like ceramic. We've been using them in our rental units at work for a couple years now and they are wonderful, long wearing, easy to clean. They have so far managed to withstand all the crap and abuse tenants have been able to throw at them, including some pretty hefty water leaks. You can just snap and score them with a regular utility knife when installing, no fancy tile cutting saws or anything and the glue they use works quite well. The ceramic tile look has fooled alot of tenants but they feel softer and warmer on a cement floor. Honestly, if I ever have to rip up any of my lino in my house I am totally going to use them. They carry them at Home Depot and are becoming quite popular, so they have quite a few colors to choose from. That's my recommendation to save yourself a few bucks and have a really nice looking durable floor. The same manufacturer also has a newer product that looks like laminate floor, but is really vinyl planks. If the wood flooring look is something you're after, it's doable. We've only tested them in one unit so far but I really like them alot, and the tenant thinks the floor is so pretty lol. So darn easy to install! Go give 'em a look at home depot, see what you think


Its a great idea, but if I opt to do it this way, then I will have to rip out all the wood in my living room so that it looks even. My kitchen itself isnt too big, so I dont think the tiles would cost me that much.

If I had the money, I would tile the whole place up, but thats not feasible...


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

teija said:


> I feel I have to comment on some of the things being said in this thread... All homeowners should already be aware of the legalities of home insurance...
> 
> This is DEFINITELY not how it works with our apartment and home insurance, and I am betting ours is a standard rule across the board. A dishwasher, washing machine, toilets, shower/bath, fridge, oven, fireplace, etc are all "appliances" and are all the responsibility of the owner, NOT the strata I'm sorry to say! The ONLY thing that will cover any resulting damage or costs from fault/malfunction/leaks of these is HOME INSURANCE. This is up to the owner to pay for each year. If you don't have that, you will be liable for whatever damage occurs, and whatever damage YOUR appliances cause to other units in the strata. This can amount to thousands of dollars or more.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. I really appreciate it.

I dont know if I can salvage any wood because the bottom part of this engineered wood is just plywood...which is soaked full of water. All I can salvage would probably be the top wood part and maybe just use plywood again in bottom and glue this wood to the top. I am not sure if this is what you meant... I am a total newbie in this stuff, so please forgive my ignorance.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

don't go cheap when it comes to rental equipment, get the dry wall blowers you can rent at equipment rental places and turn up the heat, keep windows shut, make sure the top of your tanks have a condensate guard (can be bagged temporarily). You want the warm air moving.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

I would start by cutting the kitchen floor out with skill saw or chisel it out. At least that will allow the floor to dry. Hopefully that will releave some of the pressure from outside the kitchen. May be the bulge will flatten out so you may not have to do anything beyind the kitchen.

When you tile the kitchen, you can put down a metal strip and cap the joints between tile and wood.

If it is plywood, there is a chance that it will shrink back a bit when dry. If you take a few picture and drop by my place. May be I can be able to give you a few pointers to DIY and the name of a tile setter.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

I just realized that the bottom part of the flooring might just be pressed wood and not plywood!

The wood underneath was literally soaked up and I could easily pull out little chunks of the pressed wood...it looked like saw dust stuck together. I am assuming thats not plywood...
Would this change things?


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Smiladon. Sorry to tell you that the wood is gone. It's just like the particle boards on the cheap stands. Once water damaged, it will never shrink back. To minimize further damage, I think you shoudl cut open the kitchn area, and get a wet dry to suck out as much water as you could from under. You can welcomed to borrow mine.
It may not hurt to pick up one up from CL for emergency especially when we have so many big aquarium around. I found it useful last time I have to suck out all the water from my 90 gallon.

These so called "engineered" floor are misleading.


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## Acipenser (Apr 21, 2010)

I have installed tiles my self and have a wet saw plus all the related equipment to install laminate flooring, if you want to go the do it your self route let me know I have tiled about 1000 sq ' and laminate about 2500 sq '. I could set you up and give you a few pointers .


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I have a great Rigid wet/dry vac you can use. I also have a couple of fans I can loan you. Between these 3 pieces of equipment, the 140g+ sw that hit our floors when my tank broke dried up in a few days & was completely dry in about 10 days. 

You're welcome to borrow what you need. I think I also have grouting tools too from when I tiled my place a few years ago.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks a lot for all the offers guys. I am so glad to be part of this community 

I will PM you if I need anything. 

I have someone coming to look at the damage and give an estimation tomorrow. I will most likely need some things to dry the floor once the wood has been removed.


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