# Water in heater?



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

If I see some water in a submersible heater, should I stop using it?
Is it unsafe?
It is still working but I just realize that the water at the bottom is now brownish looking, may be the heating coil is rusted? 
I only had this for a few months, but if it is unsafe I will replace it. 
Never had this happened to me before, please advise.
Thank you.


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## sunshine_1965 (Aug 16, 2011)

I myself would stop using it. Not all submersible heaters are water tight. This happened to me a few years ago and it sucked because the heater quit working and the water got to cold for the fish and most died the rest were sick. Good that you noticed now and not when it was too late. Just my opinion.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks...what caused this? I usually placed it vertical in the water.
It is heating up my tank just fine but I have taken it out.
Other than not heating up your warer, what other damage will water leak do?
Thx.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I don't think you want the fish to light up! Another thing is that electricity can also kill humans. Dump the heater or take it back! What's the brand?


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

What I saw while I was still using it was that there was some water at the bottom and when the heater was on, that little bit of water would look like it was being boiled, and there would be some condensation at the top. But the heater was functioning properly otherwise. It started off with a tiny bit of water but starting yesterday, I could see more water inside and then the bottom part started to turn brown like some kind of rust.
I am not sure where did the water got into the heater. I usually placed my heater vertical and sometimes not even totally submersed--the knob at the very top was sometimes above water.
Not sure what kind of damage it can cause. This is the first time. I am not using it anymore. 
If it was covered by plants or something I might not even notice it until it is too late so it could be quite dangerous. Is this a common problem?
Thanks.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Water is a good conductor of electricity. If water can get in electricity can leak into the water. It's obvious that the seal is gone.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

You would eventually get a bad shock. Once water gets in, the heater is toast (as the others have said).

Anthony


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Lamplighter said:


> I don't think you want the fish to light up! Another thing is that electricity can also kill humans. Dump the heater or take it back! What's the brand?


Electricity in the fish tank should never kill a human because we all have our tank's on GFCI protected receptacles that are properly grounded (without a probe in the tank). Even if you do not install a GFCI on the outlet, you can still get the GFCI dongle that plugs into the wall to give the protection. if the safety isnt a concern then consider a GFCI as a cost saving measure, i dropped two light fixtures into a tank through the years, both times the GFCI tripped right when it hit the water, saved both fixtures imo.

now back to the heater. Unless a heater advertizes fully submersible, it is a water tight heater, not a water proof one. most water tight heaters have a line on them as a guide to how much they need to be out of the water. When you place the plastic round part under water it will slowly seep in because it is meant to insulate against splashing and moisture, not being under water. In the summer the heater does next to no work so the water will build up inside, in the months its constantly on, then it often keeps warm enough inside to evapourate the water to prevent build up. i would put a heater out of commission if it had water inside and go and buy the Ebo-Jager line of heaters. They are dirt cheap at j&L and awesome quality. I've have 4 of them currently running without a single issue fully submersed


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

But the water inside did not seem to be connected to the water in the tank for some reason-- if this makes any sense. There was only a bit of water at the very bottom inside the tube, it was not like the whole tube was flooded.
Has this happened to anyone else?
I am not sure where the seal is supposed to be-- did it just break, was it just glued on? I am sure I never saw any ring or whatever come off the heater. 
It is pretty new, just a few months old. 
I like to always check my tank and fix this or move that so I noticed it. I wonder what would happen if I did not notice it....


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## phyeung (Feb 10, 2012)

Yes, I had some water in Eheim submersible heater three weeks ago. The light and heater were still working. But temperature was somehow too high at 90F. Sometime it went up to 92F. I turned it off and wait for about an hour. Then I lowered temperature to 82F and turn it on. The temperature went up to 90F. So I stopped using it.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i've had this happen to an aqueon heater actually, i replaced it and tossed it. most of the internal components are not meant to run in high humidity, that is why the heater is a sealed unit, so it could affect the circuitry and erode. The worst case would be the switching shorting closed meaning its on 100% and bakes the lil fishies. The best case would for for the circuitry to burn out open, or the heating element to burn itself out.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

neven said:


> Electricity in the fish tank should never kill a human because we all have our tank's on GFCI protected receptacles that are properly grounded (without a probe in the tank). Even if you do not install a GFCI on the outlet, you can still get the GFCI dongle that plugs into the wall to give the protection. if the safety isnt a concern then consider a GFCI as a cost saving measure, i dropped two light fixtures into a tank through the years, both times the GFCI tripped right when it hit the water, saved both fixtures imo.
> 
> now back to the heater. Unless a heater advertizes full submersible, it is a water tight heater, not a water proof one. most water tight heaters have a line on them as a guide to how much they need to be out of the water. When you place the plastic round part under water it will slowly seep in because it is meant to insulate against splashing and moisture, not being under water. In the summer the heater does next to no work so the water will build up inside, in the months its constantly on, then it often keeps warm enough inside to evapourate the water to prevent build up. i would put a heater out of commission if it had water inside and go and buy the Ebo-Jager line of heaters. They are dirt cheap at j&L and awesome quality. I've have 4 of them currently running without a single issue fully submersed


Thank you for the detailed answer. Appreciate it.
The heater I had was advertised as fully submessible. There is a line that says "min water level" right underneath the plastic cap so I never let my water go below that line.
I will go buy a Ebo Jager heater. This is not the eheim heater, is it?
Will water sip in easier if I lay it horizontal or does it better?
My heater was on all the time during summer because I placed it inside a tank with rams and I tried to keep the temp at 80 F. It did look like the heat might evaporate the water inside at some point which is why I waited but once I saw those brown stuff I decided to take it out. It was holding temp quite well though.
Thaks again.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

ebo jager was bought by eheim, so they are indeed eheims  But like most eheim products they still can have a defect (like their filters) you just hear about it a lot less than their competitor brands


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks Neven..that is the one with the blue cap is it?
Do you find that it is better to place the heater vertical, horizontal, or at an angle or does it matter?
I am asking this because when I bought the heater the seller told me not to place it horizontal as water could get in. He told me to either put it vertical or at an angle. I never placed it horizontal...but it somehow leaked...o well...at least I learn something and it is not a lot of money anyway. Glad no fish died. 
Thanks once again.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i have one horizontal, two vertical and on angled  The documentation says its fine anyway


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I don't use ground fault circuit interrupters (GFCI). Electricity can kill! Even if it's from a 9V battery. My life is worth more than a heater.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

then you should be using them, there is no excuse to not using them, just laziness. Im well aware of how electricity works, but it would take more than a 9 volt battery to kill you. Unless of course you attached each terminal to a wire and jabbed the wires into each hand and then you might stop your heart. The current would be just on that threshhold though that probably it would do nothing to most people.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I believe as pointed out water inside the tube will definitely mess up the circuit in time and heat the temp way up or stop working. Will the glass break as well from the water boiling inside? If so all those rusty stuff will get out and they are probably toxic.
Anyway, I am glad I discovered this before it gets worst. Actually I have an in line heater. I was just thinking since the heater was working I did not need to plug the in-line in. It is plug in now and everything is fine. It seems to be quite accurate actually. I just check the temp at the point when the light goes off and it is right on.
Is this thing you guys are talking about something I need to buy and install or does it come with the power bar. I am a total idiot when it comes to electricity. 
Just want to know how to prevent this from happening again. Thamks.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

and what i use:








requires an electrician, or you to turn off the breaker, test the power is out, then follow the instructions provided completely.

it will trip out within 5 ms, which is plenty enough to save your life if something drops in the tank while you hands are in there. it will also trip out if there's an internal problem with a component in the water.

There is something called a grounding probe, but more often than not, people install them wrong in a tank and actually create a more lethal environment. so i don't recommend them since the gain is so little.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks I will look into that.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

neven said:


> then you should be using them, there is no excuse to not using them, just laziness. Im well aware of how electricity works, but it would take more than a 9 volt battery to kill you. Unless of course you attached each terminal to a wire and jabbed the wires into each hand and then you might stop your heart. The current would be just on that threshhold though that probably it would do nothing to most people.


If you know about electricity then I guess that you know that a 9V battery can generate 30,000V +/-. It's not unusual for a 12V car battery to generate 60,000~80,000V +/-.

Yeah a GFCI would be a good thing.

In any event a fully submersible heater that leaks should be dumped.


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## shady280 (Oct 17, 2011)

Also a good heater is the Rena. It connects to the intake hose of a canister and eliminates one extra thing in your tank. I don't have gfi in my house. It's too old, some of the wiring has been updated but not all. At least it's all copper and not knob and tube!


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## The Guy (Nov 26, 2010)

Ok, It's simple get rid of the heater. Once they are leaking water into them there toast. So if you don't want yourself or your fish getting toasted replace it. :lol:


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

Just thought i would mention, in Canada the csa requires that all submersible heaters have a max water line. if it says fully submersible than it is. i have 2 heaters horizontal at the bottom and there fine, but i do have a titanium one that says right in the instruction mount vertically only so i did. if your heater is somewhat new take it back for warranty.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks guys.
I am using a inline heater now, and will be getting some Eheim heaters today. I want to get an extra one for the tank I use to heat up some water for my discus just in case something happens. 
I am using this heater in my discus tank that I really like. It is an aqueclear and it is made in Italy. I have not really seen this around but it holds the temperature very accurately and does not leak, is slim and easy to use. It is not to be submerged but that is not a big problem for me. When I get something that can be submerged may be I will retire this one.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Lamplighter said:


> If you know about electricity then I guess that you know that a 9V battery can generate 30,000V +/-. It's not unusual for a 12V car battery to generate 60,000~80,000V +/-.
> 
> Yeah a GFCI would be a good thing.
> 
> In any event a fully submersible heater that leaks should be dumped.


Yes a 9 volt battery can power a circuit that generates high voltage spikes, aswell as a 12V battery can supply a car ignition circuit. The circuits converts to the higher voltage, but the battery will always supply 9V (or 12V for the car battery). This is why circuitry often has warning labels on them, especially if the circuit uses capacitors. Anywho, my initial arguement about saving equipment costs was aimed towards people who don't care about safety regardless, i was giving them a $$ value to using a GFCI, meaning if they dont care about the primary use, there's a secondary use that still benefits. I'm an electrician and have always advocated using GFCIs in wet locations, aswell as proper circuit loading for safety reasons and to reduce the risk of fire.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

neven said:


> I'm an electrician and have always advocated using GFCIs in wet locations, aswell as proper circuit loading for safety reasons and to reduce the risk of fire.


 You're quite right! GFCI's should be used in wet locations. I have installed them outside.

I'm not an electrician but I wired up a couple of my own houses.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Lamplighter said:


> If you know about electricity then I guess that you know that a 9V battery can generate 30,000V +/-. It's not unusual for a 12V car battery to generate 60,000~80,000V +/-.
> 
> Yeah a GFCI would be a good thing.
> 
> In any event a fully submersible heater that leaks should be dumped.


I wouldnt compare house electrical with car electrical. A car battery does not have many amps. Your houses 120v on the other hand has lots. Go pull off one of your spark plug wires while your car is running. It doesnt feel good but you will survive. No where near enough amps to kill you. Ive been shocked numerous times as a mechanic.

As for the heater. I have a story about faulty aquarium products. I once had a powerhead that had a short in it and I had no clue. One day I reached my hands in to my tank to clean it and out of no where I got shocked. Nearly gave me a heart attack. Caught me off guard to say the least. I had no idea how long the powerhead had been putting electricity into my water as my fish seemed okay. I guess I grounded the circuit. I had just added the powerhead after taking down a different tank so I assumed it was the problem. I removed it. The worst part about the situation was having to stick my finger into the water again to make sure I found the problem and hope to not go through the same thing again. I had just put on a fresh pair of underwear and was hoping to not have to change them again. Thankfully the powerhead was the problem so facing another shock was now over. Moral of the story. If it electric and its in water. Dont mess around with it. Just replace it.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

jbyoung00008 said:


> I wouldnt compare house electrical with car electrical. A car battery does not have many amps. Your houses 120v on the other hand has lots. Go pull off one of your spark plug wires while your car is running. It doesnt feel good but you will survive. No where near enough amps to kill you. Ive been shocked numerous times as a mechanic.
> 
> As for the heater. I have a story about faulty aquarium products. I once had a powerhead that had a short in it and I had no clue. One day I reached my hands in to my tank to clean it and out of no where I got shocked. Nearly gave me a heart attack. Caught me off guard to say the least. I had no idea how long the powerhead had been putting electricity into my water as my fish seemed okay. I guess I grounded the circuit. I had just added the powerhead after taking down a different tank so I assumed it was the problem. I removed it. The worst part about the situation was having to stick my finger into the water again to make sure I found the problem and hope to not go through the same thing again. I had just put on a fresh pair of underwear and was hoping to not have to change them again. Thankfully the powerhead was the problem so facing another shock was now over. Moral of the story. If it electric and its in water. Dont mess around with it. Just replace it.


Since you're a mechanic you must know that electricity can kill amperage or not. Any electrical charge that intersects the heart has the potential to kill.

http://www.elvsolutions.org/Focus_EV_Battery_Removal_4-26-2012.pdf

Page 6 shows the warning decals that Fords have.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Lamplighter said:


> Since you're a mechanic you must know that electricity can kill amperage or not. Any electrical charge that intersects the heart has the potential to kill.
> 
> http://www.elvsolutions.org/Focus_EV_Battery_Removal_4-26-2012.pdf
> 
> Page 6 shows the warning decals that Fords have.


I agree low amps could possibly kill you but Id rather be shocked by a cars 12v battery system than my houses 120v. A car battery on its own wont deliver a shock or 60,000v. It will give you lots of heat though. A coil is used on a car to multiply the voltage. All I was trying to say is a cars battery is rather harmless compared to house electrical. As for new battery powered cars those arnt 12v systems and I bet they can be dangerous. Im sure they pack some serious power and a shock could be more fatal. Lots of people think car electrical and house electrical are the same. Totally different IMO. House electrical is dangerous all the time where car electrical is relatively harmless except on these new battery powered vehicles. The 1 thing they both have in common is........ DONT LET THE SMOKE OUT OF THE WIRE LOL


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