# Replacing gravel with Sand.



## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey people
I've decided to strip my tank and replace the gravel with sand.
as I'm getting a bunch of multies
Anything I should know about how to do this and how to maintain the tank afterwards... Obviously I won't need a gravel siphon anymore lol. So some questions

1. Right now, I am running an Aquaball 2212. Do I need to change to a HOB Filter for the sand tank?

2. Water changes should be easy right? No Mulm all I do is scoop up some water form the top and replace it.

3. This is a sand argonite mix. leading to a higher PH. Will this harm any of the current inhabitants: Pleco, Red Claw Cray, Convict Cichlid, guppies and tetras, BNP, 

Any other tips and pointers about keeping multies or how to manage a sand tank is much appreciated


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Edarion, before this turns into a troll thread again. 

Think through you questions and please take people's suggestions seriously.

1. Sand does not make any difference to your filter arrangement. If it can get into your Aquaball, it can get into your HOB. You either have to raise your Aquaball or the intake of the HOB if you think the sand could be stirred up.

2. You may still want to vacuum fish poop up occasionally especially if you still want to keep your pleco.

3. Most likely your pH won't go higher than 7 and that should be fine for your current inhabitant.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

So when when setting up. How do prevent the sand from going into my Aquaball


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## Sprucegruve (Apr 11, 2011)

turn off the filter for a hour or two,turn up your airstone for the time being.
slowly add your sand then when it settles to the bottom,turn your filter on again.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

I would get two 5g bucket to keep the livestock temporarily. Empty the tank of the gravel. Good chance to give the tank a good clean, clean the filter, and do a 30% WC at the same time. 

Not sure where you are getting the sand mix. Give it a good rinse in a bucket in your bath tub to take out the fines. Aragonite could have a bit of fine. Put sand in tank and shape it to what you like. Place a small piece of glass or slate or a dinner plate on top of the sand where you can slowly pour water to minimize disturbance to the sand.

If the turbidity is not too bad, you can pretty well add the fish back in the tank.

You can wait for it to settle or add some Tetrafin QuikClear. Put some filter fool in the filter and dispose when the water is clear. There will be instructions on the bottle. Remember to stick an airstone in the bucket where livestock is if you think it will take more than 4 hours.

If you are still concern of the possibility of sand getting in your filter, you can continue to use filter floss. That requires a little bit more maintenance. 

Hope this help.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

The way I have it set up right now. the bottom of my filter is covered with gravel. If I was to do the same with sand? would it cause problems.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Not recommended. You probably know already sand in your filter will destroy it. Turn it sideway if you could. If I remember right from your other thread, your filter is way over-sized ? Another consideration is to store this and get something like a AC50 for now -$35 new.

Posting pictures with your thread will help us trouble shoot for you much faster.

Since you have $200 budget, why not consider getting a larger tank. If footprint is an issue, you could consider a 25g tall so you could keep your filter higher. New is only about $45 after tax. Roger should have that. KE also has a very interesting 20g tall - make sure you check the lighting you need, I think that may be a 20" wide tank.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes my filter is oversized. So I should sit my filter on top of the sand instead? That's easy enough i'll just take out one 
compartment. I don't trust AC anymore. They flooded on me twice in a month.
This tank I started out using the AC20. Flooded on me twice. So I traded it with rsxed for the aquaball.

Havn't done the switch over yet because the member has yet to bring me the fish and the sand. So I have some time to figure this out. Don't have a camera that takes pictures underwater lol 

Can't get a larger tank because of the space issue. Right now my tank is 13” high x 18” long x 12” deep


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Don't be silly  We don't need underwater pictures. Just a tank shot.

I think yours is a 10g, not 15g? Really too small to do much. Filter is way too big. No, don't sit filter on sand.

Take a bus ride to KE. It is nice out  Check out KE's 20g tall. Footprint should not much bigger. If you want to stay with the small tank, get a U2 while you are there.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

where is KE? 
Speaking if the U2. I got one from pet Habitat before the AC it didn't work and they owner would not give me credit for it...
Altho i'm curious why would the U2 be a more suitable filter in a sand tank


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

King Ed Pets.

Kingsway just past Edmonds on the right hand side. Directly across from Value Village. 10 minutes bus ride from Metrotown ?

It will be a good place for you to see some setups and tons of products you can check out.

It is puzzling when you claim AC and U2 do not work. There are a ton of AC being used - it probably has been around before your were born  I have a U4 running and it is awesome. I think the U series is the best internal filter for small tanks - price is bit steep. 

This is one key thing you should learn if you want to succeed in the hobby or life in general. Study the problems, try to figure why it does not work and come up with some of your own solutions. Take a little bit more hands-on approach yourself (no mentor), just explore, experiment, tinker around  This is half the fun of the hobby. You could share your solution and may be we could learn from you as well.

Take a ride to KE before the sun set. I have to get off the computer as well


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

I'd prefer an hob like the AC's that gklaw mentioned for that sized tank. I don't like internal filters for small tanks because they take up some real estate.

I hope the current tank inhabitants are gone before the multies arrive. Guppies will be ok as dithers, I have used endlers as dithers for my shellie tanks. But the other larger inhabitants may stress the multies enough where you may see them hiding in their shells most of the time. Higher pH ie. 8 and harder water may not be suitable for your other tank mates. 

If you're converting the tank for multies and you want some breeding activity - that is half the fun of owning multies, you don't need a lot of sand. IME, multies don't like sand, they'll burrow right down to the bottom of the glass casting sand aside to the sides of the tank so your shells are just sitting on bare glass. A 1/2" depth is fine, more than an inch is unnecessary. That depth of sand makes it easier to clean too. Just stir it up with your fingers before a water change and stick your hose in and just hover above the sand w/o sucking it up.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I never claimed that they don't work. Just that the one's the I got didn't work for me.
Therefore creating a bad consumer experience for me. And therefore i'm not willing to invest in products that have created for me a bad experience.

If Luke Skywalker didn't have a mentor. He probably would have joined the galactic empire....


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

....................


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. The first thing I need to tackle is the algae problem. I think they are diatoms. Its everywhere. on the filters in the hydrosponge...all over the acrylic walls...

How do i get the algae off without having to scrape it with my finger nails? I've tried SOS pads and they just scratched the acrylic.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

So.. I just measured my 15 gallon tank and my ten. 

15 gallon - 24" long. 12.5" deep. 12.5" high.
10 gallon - 20" long. 10 1/4" deep. 12 high.

I believe this to actually be a 10 gallon tank, based on your measurements its 6" shorter in length. Adding the aqua ball makes it a more like a 7 gallon tan, esp if your also running a submersable heater . There is no way this tank is suitable for its current stock list! 

If you want a different filter unit, try tetras whisper line, or a topfin. HOB is your best bet 
If you shooting the best ones on the market down then those are some cheaper options. 

You only need 5lbs of sand. I would give you 5lbs of freshwater corse sand, ive got a HOB filter I would sell you for 10$ with replacement filters ( i payed 7$ for)

And as for your luke skywalker comment... Really? Batman learned his moves alone... Superman learned his moves alone... And my personal favorite... Ironman MADE his own moves! All of the could kick skywalkers @$$. 

Its good to to ask questions, then do it. but your looking for peopleto do the work the way you want, not the right way.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Algae wouldnt be a problem if you did water changes. And cleaned your tank.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Mine is a bowfront remember. 
Superman was born with his moves

Re Algae: I know. But moving forward I'm asking. How do i clean up this mess. I first have to start by scraping the algae off everywhere. How do I do this without scratching everything


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## christhefish (Nov 8, 2010)

if you have some scrap leather you could use that to scrub the algae off the acrylic thats what i do or even papertowel


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

But Im pretty sure it wont bow enough to make up for 6" of water, thats alot dude.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Wet paper towel? doesn't have enough... texture too smothish Don't have scrap leather tho


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm prettty sure its a 15 gallon tho


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

The easiest way is to drain your tank! Get steel wool #0000. LET ME PUT THIS OUT THERE AGAIN IT HAS TO BE #0000 SUPER FINE. IT IS MEANT FOR GLASS IT WILL CLEAN YOUR TANK. DO NOT USE SOS PADS. 

If your changing up the substrate layer anyway. 

Take a 4 cup measuring cup, and fill you tank, just water. There is 16 cups in 1 gallon. For a 10 gallon tank you will have to add 160cups to fill it, or 240cups for a 15 gallon tank. 

Put in 5 lbs of sand ( keeping in mind ) you add in your filter and heater also you loose swimming space.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

After udsing steel wool wash out good with water only!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

lol where do i find a 4 cup measuring cup? 
steel wool has numbers?


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

If your looking for a 4 cup measuring cup...A kitchen, walmart, home outfitters, zellers, homesence, superstore, safeway, canadian tire, vallue village, MCC, salvation army thrift store, safeway, save on foods, thrifties, the bay, sears, tupperware, craigslist. 

And yes steel wool has numbers #0000 being ultra fine. The finest ment for chrome, aluminium and glass.


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

I love reading threads by Edarion. Entertaining and informative until people get tired of answering questions like "where can I buy a measuring cup?".


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## Sliver (Apr 19, 2011)

again? really? lol


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

You are so kind Chris.

Entertaining? I found it extremely frustrating and irritating. I honestly tried to help but felt like I was being sucked into another clown show.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I know what a 4 cup measuring cup is now lol. I also just bought the fine steel wooll that is 0000. Thanks to Cichlid


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

The key here... Ready it 5 times so you full understand. RINSE THE TANK ABOUT 3-4 before refilling


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## liquid_krystale (Dec 13, 2011)

cdsgo1974 said:


> I love reading threads by Edarion. Entertaining and informative until people get tired of answering questions like "where can I buy a measuring cup?".


Every time I see one of his/her threads, I make a batch of popcorn and ready myself for the show that is about to follow.

I mean...every court should have its jester.


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## ajbwrg (Nov 11, 2011)

This Guy is a real Clown.


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

careful guys, he has a light saber


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

How do i rinse a 15 gallon tank? Every time I pick it up when its half full my back strains.

I took pics of tank today will put them up later


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Take it easy Edarion. Enjoy the Christmas Spirit and have some fun with your classmates, friends and family. Keep the major changes till after the boxing day. 

Give your fish a Christmas treat in their crowded tank with a water change. You can wash your tank in your kitchen sink or bath tub, just like washing a big bowl, with a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. You can find that in any grocery stores 

Have a Blessed Joyous Christmas


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Why do I even bother! * facepalm*

What is in the tank? Just water or did you leave the gravel in it? Your best way to do it put it in the bath tub. Second is man up, half full is only 70lbs.

Maybe you should take the weekend and research. There is the cool thing called google. Google you can search things like how to setup/maintain an aquarium. How to do water changes... What is a 4 cup measuring cup!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh I tried the steel wool... it wasn't 100% effective only took out about half of what i had on the pleco cave


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

Googled (as Cichlid suggested) and quoted directly from How To Wash Aquarium Gravel

*Difficulty:* Easy
*Time Required:* 30 minutes
*Here's How:*

Purchase enough gravel to cover the aquarium bottom approximately three inches deep.
If you don't already have one, purchase a 5 gallon bucket and label it for aquarium use only. Aquarium buckets should never have soap in them.
Place a large clean sieve, at least 6 inches across, over the bucket. Fill the sieve half full of gravel.
Pour water over the gravel in the sieve, while gently shaking it. Rinsing the gravel over the bucket rather than over a drain, allows gravel that slips through the sieve to be caught instead of going down the drain. Continue pouring water over the gravel until the water runs clear. Several washings are usually required.
Once the water runs clear, the gravel is ready to be used. It may be placed directly into the tank or in a clean bucket or container.
Repeat steps three through five until you have washed enough gravel to fill the aquarium three inches deep.

*Tips:*

A rule of thumb for the amount of gravel to use is one pound of gravel per each gallon of water.
Old buckets may be used if they are thoroughly cleaned with bleach, rinsed well, and allowed to air dry.

*What You Need:*

6" or larger sieve
5 gallon bucket


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

As far as lifting heavy objects is concerned, I also googled it for you and found Safe Lifting Technique. Please refer to the list shown below which was directly quoted from the article:

1)Stand close to the load and center yourself over it with your feet shoulder width apart

2)Tighten your abdominal muscles

3)Keeping your back straight, bend your knees and squat down to the floor

4)Get a good grasp on the load with both hands

5)Keeping the load close to your body use your leg muscles to stand up lifting the load off the floor

6)Your back should remain straight throughout lifting, using only the muscles in the legs to lift the load

7)Do not twist your body when moving the load. Instead take small steps with your feet turning until your are in the correct position

8)Again bend at the knees using only your leg muscles and place the load in the appropriate spot


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

As far as Googling is concerned, I also found you an interactive online Google tutorial site... Interactive online Google tutorial and references - Google Guide


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## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

Don't add sand if you want less/simpler water changes.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

This is the part I don't get it. Sounds like we are trying to teach a baby walk  We are not toilet training here, are we? My 11 year old can learn waaaaaaaay faster than this.

Here is a simple test for the Jedi before he is dismissed from the training and returned to be with the common: 

=====

1. So you cannot lift a tank full of water. 
2. Your back is insured in a combat.
3. You see a bucket, a hose (or a cup), and the toilet.

How do you move the water into the toilet so you can move move the tank?

Get off your chair and solve the problem. Don't use the Force - that is right out abuse and disrespect to the Force.

=====

I imagine we are talking to a high school of college student here, not a kindergarten or elementary school student. Even an elementary student could solve that problem. Jedi ?

Mentoring is about training someone to be able to stand on their own feet. The one being mentored must be willing to put in the effort to learn and to try. It involves training of characters more than the training of abilities. Not everyone could be mentored, not everyone would turn out to be a Jedi or a carpenter. You must have the right aptitude, attitude, and determination. 

You MUST also make personal commitment and sacrifices in the process. Mentors don't wipe a--es; they kick butts where it hurts. If the ones being mentored do not learn from the pain, they are dropped.

From what I can see here. This hobby seems to be far too hard and demanding for you - bad aptitude and attitude. Try something else - computer programming? We need another Steve Job! New Year resolution?

If you really like fish, as papa Shelley has already suggested, get some stuffed fish on boxing day. It may be easier to just eBay them so you don't have to leave your chair or take a bus ride to somewhere. A Webkinz goldfish (or a shark) will look good on your computer - my little girl has one 

Enough said. Have a Merry Christmas.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Wouldn't WC be easier with a sand bottom because there is no mulm that I would need to vaccum? All to do is just replace the water?

Man, I think Aquaball is dying.Might pick up a Fluval U2 on boxing day.


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## ajbwrg (Nov 11, 2011)

What I don't understand is why all of you are still trying to help this person out when he or she is clearly NOT listening. I personally think it's great entertainment, but lets close this thread already.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

But I am listening,I am currently looking on craigslist to inquire about upgrading to a 20 gallon tank 

I also got my next door neighbour to help me do the carry to toilet thing if I end up staying with the 15 gallon All for $5. 

Man...18 year old kids work for dirt cheap.


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## liquid_krystale (Dec 13, 2011)

And here I was thinking OP was in HS. LOL


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

Hey, HS kids arnt like this at all


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## liquid_krystale (Dec 13, 2011)

Momobobo said:


> Hey, HS kids arnt like this at all


Of course not, I didn't mean his behaviour is representative of HS students. I was never like that in HS either.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Edarion said:


> I also got my next door neighbour to help me do the carry to toilet thing if I end up staying with the 15 gallon All for $5.
> 
> Man...18 year old kids work for dirt cheap.


This is too depressing for Christmas  First you need to pay your neighbour for help. Then you turn around to mock him behind his back 

Go make some real friends and enjoy the Christmas


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

I agree, this thread should be closed because I can't wait for Edarion's next thread. It's like watching a new episode of "Trolls". 

I suggest the following:
"Help! Tank's too far from the power outlet"
"Help! Seeing reflection of tank when watching TV"
"Help! I think my fish is talking to me."

Christmas Special: 
"Santa, I want a Fluval filter for Christmas".


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

cichlid said:


> The easiest way is to drain your tank! Get steel wool #0000. LET ME PUT THIS OUT THERE AGAIN IT HAS TO BE #0000 SUPER FINE. IT IS MEANT FOR GLASS IT WILL CLEAN YOUR TANK.





Edarion said:


> Oh I tried the steel wool... it wasn't 100% effective only took out about half of what i had on the pleco cave


Is your pleco cave glass? If not.... *facepalm*


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

lol no.

Looked around into a tank upgrade... Would a 20 gallon hex be better than what I have now? i'm very tempted to go grab this on boxing day

SeaClear 20 Gallon Hexagon Tanks - Fish - Boutique - PetSmart


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Yes it would!
How ever.. What kind of a stand would go under that?


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

But its actually less swimming space than what my fish have right now.
I am planning on putting it on my counter next to the sink where my 15 gallon is right now.

Wow. just had another close call with heaters. Two days ago I put in a heater that was 120 watts.and turned the heat to low. Monitored the temperatures the last few days. It kept on rising. Saw pleco gasping for air today. Fished him out and put him in the 5 gallon Bucket....

I hope he's okay.* cries*


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Edarion,

Instead of buying this unit,have a look in the classifieds here on the site,or speak to some of the sponsors to see if they can find you something your interested in.Personally i wouldnt buy this,but if your set on it go ahead.Its obvious you need more space for your fish.



Edarion said:


> lol no.
> 
> Looked around into a tank upgrade... Would a 20 gallon hex be better than what I have now? i'm very tempted to go grab this on boxing day
> 
> SeaClear 20 Gallon Hexagon Tanks - Fish - Boutique - PetSmart


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

I've been monitoring both craigslist and the classified here for months . Unfortunately, i don't drive so there's no way for me to get it back here. The person would need to deliver. The last person I got the 15 gallon from delivered to me otherwise i wouldn't have been able to get it. 

I'm not in a huge rush to do a tank upgrade so unless the right one comes along will probably be with the 15 gallon for a few more years


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Alrite guys! My Christmas present to you.
Pictures!!!!

Thank you very much for being so diligent and giving me lots of feed back. Believe or not its been beneficial.And you guys can obviously see that this is going somewhere since I'm looking into possibly upgrading.

The first few are pictures of my tanks from different angels.
And the last one is the pleco in the bucket that i'm leaving there until tomorrow morning or something when the temperature of my tank cools down.

Merry Christmas


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Dude. I am pretty sure that is 10gal! 

The pleco in my 90 is half that size!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Pretty sure itsnot. Altho i have yet to do the mesauring cup test yet I guess timewill tell


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

Hello Edarion,
Here are a few postings on Craigslist for 20 gallon fish tanks:
Selling: a 20/25 gal. aquariums + fluval 205 filter (West Side) 20 gallon tank,stand,background (Lonsdale)
20 gallon fish tank & lid/lights $50 OBO (West Van)
20 Gallon Snake/Reptile Tank (Burnaby)
New 20 gallon Aquarium System (Vancouver)
Eclipse 20 gal Aquarium (Port Coquitlam)
Complete 20 gal aquarium, fish/plants/decs/gravel/heater/filter (Port Moody)

Explain your situation to the seller and he/she may agree to deliver it to you. Out of 7 sellers, I'm sure at least one of them will agree to deliver the tank to you.


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

Here's a real potential... 20 gallon Long with lighting fishtank (Deer Lake Burnaby area)... includes delivery... it's a 20 gallon LONG tank so it will give your fish a lot of space to swim in.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for the help.... But read above for the space specifications. It must fit in that space.

13” high x 18” long x 12” deep.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Very very kind Chris  Too big for his counter ...........

Did he mentioned paying someone to carry the tank to the toilet or trying to use Python to change water ?!

Does not appear to be more than 8-9g of water. The sink is 2" away


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

Fair enough, but there are still 7 other sellers I listed for you. At the very least, you should contact each one of those sellers and see if they'll be so kind to deliver the tank.


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

gklaw said:


> Very very kind Chris  Too big for his counter ...........
> 
> Did he mentioned paying someone to carry the tank to the toilet or trying to use Python to change water ?!
> 
> Does not appear to be more than 8-9g of water. The sink is 2" away


Thanks Gordon... I'm actually doing this kind deed for the fish rather than for Edarion. Aside from the tank being too cramp, that tank is just nasty. It's so filthy!! I also have a 20 gallon tank and it's nowhere close to Edarion's tank. I attached an image of my 20 gallon tank. Edarion has no excuse to let the tank get this bad as he's only taking care of one. From one of the threads I read, you have 14? I'm pretty sure they're all spotless given how dedicated and detailed you are (haven't met you yet so these are just based on my observations). Hopefully, it's not a reflection of Edarion's own living space.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Told you King Ed has 20g tall tank - 20.25"x10.5" footprint. They don't deliver. If 15 minutes bus ride is too much - tough life ? If that is not good, guess you are stucked with what you have for another 15 years  Poor fish  

BTW. Just came back from my sister's. She only completed grade 2 education in Hong Kong. My niece gave her a gold fish less than two years ago. Her last tank was a 5g bow front. She is over 60 and has no problem carrying the full tank with gravel and fish 25 feet to the kitchen to dump 50% water, fill it back up and carry it back to the living room. That was how she preferred to have her water changed.

I upgraded her to a 12g a couple months ago and put in a few endlers, a couple of BNPs, a couple of plants. She never called for advice. Saw the tank today, it is pristine, the endlers are breeding and the BNPs noticeably grew.

Wow, she is a born Jedi :lol:


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

Have you tried going bare bottom.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

You have 200$ to spend. There is a cool invention called a taxi. Im pretty sure the exist in Burnaby they drive + posessions to your house!


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

IceBlue said:


> Have you tried going bare bottom.


It is actually very doable. Thin layer of gravel for look, a couple potted plants. Filter is good, just need to be cleaned regularly - once a month? 30% WC once every two weeks or so - should take less than 5 minutes where the tank is. It should be pristine as long as livestock is kept under control.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

A 4-5 neons. 1 ram. 2 glowlite tetras. 
A couple small plants, some sword , cabamba, 
What looks really good in these planted tanks is pea gravel ( or 6.5 birds eye) it can be purchased at any landscape yard. ( bring it too a boil on the stove)


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Lol,I'm not wasting $200 to take a taxi. They are quite expensive.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Im picking up a patern. We give suggestions to stop u from b¡t€#¡^g and all we get is more biat€#ing!!! Dude do yourself a favour and figure it out forself... Maybe save up for a car and give up on fish, once u blow your 200$ and your fish eat each other, you'll realize you did it wrong.


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

Edarion is, after all, a Troll. Don't let him get the satisfaction.

Definition:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Im glad they havn't kicked him off yet( through the frustration we find amusement)


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Re the Taxi comment: That in itself was extraneous... I'm not asking for suggestions for how to get a new tank. 
I'm keeping what I have now.But what I am going to do is to sell some livestock replace with gravel with sand and get some multies.

tank upgrade is going to be out of the question because it doesn't fit in the area i have... Measured this morning. 

I also have health problems that prevent me from driving. But hopefully when my neighbour gets his license in a few years. I'll get free rides


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

So do it! And stop asking questions lol


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Waiting for the BCA member to be free enough to deliver


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

To deliver what?


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Sand and Multies


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

You must be one of the laziest people out there... Get people to bring you stuff! How do you get food? Delivery lol


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Stop criticizing how I do this.I do what I do and that is not going to change.


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

Edarion said:


> Alrite guys! My Christmas present to you.
> Pictures!!!!
> 
> Thank you very much for being so diligent and giving me lots of feed back. Believe or not its been beneficial.And you guys can obviously see that this is going somewhere since I'm looking into possibly upgrading.
> ...


No offense, but holy crap that tank looks like [email protected]#!..... I can barely tell that there's a pleco in there, plus the endlers...


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

BelieveInBlue said:


> No offense, but holy crap that tank looks like [email protected]#!..... I can barely tell that there's a pleco in there, plus the endlers...


 I thought that was an algae farm


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Those were Guppies I know. my first step is to eradicate the algaeD


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

So easy to be an 'armchair' quaterback! Why the need to make this public? If you have something say, resort to using PM or dont say anything at all, and not make this out to be some trival thing! Its obvious this individual is trying to work with the situation at hand,get advice, and ask questions here.What he decides to do with it is up to him! Coming out and typing this doesnt fix anything and fustrates him even more.So much negativity



BelieveInBlue said:


> No offense, but holy crap that tank looks like [email protected]#!..... I can barely tell that there's a pleco in there, plus the endlers...


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks Luke. I think you're the first person with a positive comment on this thread!!!

Free pleco for you. I'll even come deliver it to you


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Luke this is the 6-7th thread regarding this 15 gallon tank, that is the same measurements as my 10 gallon. We have tried, and tried and tried. This entire mess started with Edarian wanting someone to aquascape his tank for him for free. We all gave suggestions, advise, and everything we suggested wasnt good enough. 

Ther is nothing wrong with his 10 gallon tank, It could look great. The problem is the fish he currently has and the ones he plans to get are not suitable for the tank. Instead of listening to us seasoned guys, he shoots us down, and nothing we could say is as good as his own Ideas. Yet he still asks for advise. 

Most of us are too the point where we dont even respond anymore. We just read the thread out of amusement.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Its a 15 gallon tank. I did your measuring cup test today


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Ok. So you did listen to one piece of advice.


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

Luke78 said:


> So easy to be an 'armchair' quaterback! Why the need to make this public? If you have something say, resort to using PM or dont say anything at all, and not make this out to be some trival thing! Its obvious this individual is trying to work with the situation at hand,get advice, and ask questions here.What he decides to do with it is up to him! Coming out and typing this doesnt fix anything and fustrates him even more.So much negativity


Problem is he doesn't exactly LISTEN to our advice... If he actually listened, or at least took our advice into consideration, we wouldn't be saying what we're saying. Also, aren't you being an "armchair quarterback" as well?


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

YOU or no one else has the right to come out on this public forum and say his aquarium looks like @#@$#$~ ! Your entitled to your opinion,but everyone here including myself doesnt want to hear or see it! I would consider putting ALOT of thought behind what you type or say to other members here.The last few responses have been nothing but insluts,badgering, and not productive at all.YOU make the decision to either ignore the topic(which you didnt) or type a response(which you did).My issue is with what you said.Iam the 'armchair quaterback here as well? Hows that? please explain i would like to hear it.I responded several times already,but not once did i put him/her down,belittle them,or insult his setup.



BelieveInBlue said:


> Problem is he doesn't exactly LISTEN to our advice... If he actually listened, or at least took our advice into consideration, we wouldn't be saying what we're saying. Also, aren't you being an "armchair quarterback" as well?


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

No, but you are choosing to post on here instead of sending PM's. 

And this thread really is turning into a flame war... probably time for a mod to close this.


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## Arcteryx (Nov 23, 2011)

However anyone puts this, this thread is poison... and not representative of the community of fine folks I've admired and appreciated since joining a few weeks ago. Come'n folks, don't let one poster drag you down into the quagmire. You're all - 99% of the time - way better than this.

Happy New Year!


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Happy New Year to you too


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## cdsgo1974 (Sep 25, 2011)

Arcteryx said:


> However anyone puts this, this thread is poison... and not representative of the community of fine folks I've admired and appreciated since joining a few weeks ago. Come'n folks, don't let one poster drag you down into the quagmire. You're all - 99% of the time - way better than this.
> 
> Happy New Year!


Yes, Arcteryx has a very good point. Members who have posted in this thread are 99% positive most of the time. Hopefully, this will make it crystal clear to the forum moderators on whom the problem lies. In my mind, a site policy should be put in place to eradicate troll threads or even better the actual troll. *The challenge here is that the troll can very easily disguise himself/herself as the victim when the real victims are the members who wasted valuable time and well-intended effort to help the troll out.*


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank goodness, I'm not a troll.
Will the real troll please stand up?


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## cichlid (Jul 30, 2010)

Anothony has shut down previous threads because they become pointless fast. Saying the aquarium looks like $#!+, is insulting, but maybe its insulting to those of us who care about appropriate care, and the care of fish. I dont know of anyone on this site who wouldn't find something wrong with those aquarium conditions. If you made your child sleep in a bed soaked in s#!+, potencially toxic air quality in the room and dirt build up on the walls, they wouldn't hesitate to take them away. Just because a fish only costs 3$ no one seems to care.

Posting pictures of a tank in that state of neglect will bring critisism. They have agencies dedicated to cats and dogs... Who looks after fish?


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Closed since this is getting to be a trolling thread.

Will everyone please stop replying to this member's threads. 

Ignore troll threads.


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