# Pleco's & Angel's dying almost daily S.O.S



## Grandwitch (Jan 30, 2013)

Over the past few weeks I have been losing Pleco and Angel fry, now I have Adult's dying. ALL perimeters have been tested by my LFS. Everything tested was good. I bought a Master Test Kit and here are my finding's. I was stumped by the high one Phosphate/phosphors. It's at the MAX! 5.0 could be higher but my chart only goes so high! I'm NOT overfeeding, no plants , just 2 peices of Malaysian drift wood, and I change water every week. In the 35 gal, I change 15 gal, the 55 gal, change 30 gal and so on. My filter reek of swamp water 1 day after changing everything. The tank smells of earth. I have tried water changes, what else can I do? Here's the results.

PH 6.8 - 7.0
KH 20 ppm
GH 60 ppm
Nitrate 10-20 ppm
Nitrite 0.3
Ammonia 0
Iron 0
Calcium below 20 mg/ppm
Phosphate 5.0

Please someone advise me as to what to do. Thanks


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

Phosphates won't harm your fish. Also, The earthy smell from your tank is often a good thing, So long as it's not a foul smell. 

Any other symptoms from the fish? Are you sure its not disease related? 

How long has the tank been set up?


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

^I agree with AWW

You do have trace nitrite, while not good, I cant imagine it having such a profound effect.


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Grandwitch said:


> Over the past few weeks I have been losing Pleco and Angel fry, now I have Adult's dying. ALL perimeters have been tested by my LFS. Everything tested was good. I bought a Master Test Kit and here are my finding's. I was stumped by the high one Phosphate/phosphors. It's at the MAX! 5.0 could be higher but my chart only goes so high! I'm NOT overfeeding, no plants , just 2 peices of Malaysian drift wood, and I change water every week. In the 35 gal, I change 15 gal, the 55 gal, change 30 gal and so on. My filter reek of swamp water 1 day after changing everything. The tank smells of earth. I have tried water changes, what else can I do? Here's the results.
> 
> PH 6.8 - 7.0
> KH 20 ppm
> ...


Only other thing I'd test for would be Copper, angel fish and pleco are both sensitive to it. If that were to come up negative I would suggest watching for signs of possible disease as AWW mention


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## mollyb (May 18, 2010)

copper is a big silent killer, i lost many discus and angel fry as well as more plecos than i like to think about to it. my source was from some used crushed coral substrate that the previous owner put copper in the salt water tank to treat something many years previous. i was using it to raise my hardness and buffer capacity, not realizing it's history


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

There has been an outbreak of camallanus worms recently. Check for emaciation, listlessness, and tiny red worms protruding from the vents.


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## Grandwitch (Jan 30, 2013)

The fish look and act perfectly healthy. That's what baffles me. I've had fish off and on for almost 50 years and never have had this. Just recently the City started putting Chlorine in the water; that's when my troubles started. I complained to Water Works and they assured me they aren't adding anything that would harm my fish other than Chlorine. My tanks have been set up for 1 yr +, and I do get a swampy smell. Weird cuz I have 3 Angels and 5 Plecos in a 55 gal and do a 30% water change weekly due to the smell. The water is crystal clear, and has only a few Anubias and Java ferns. I had Java Moss in my baby Angel tank, it started dying too so I removed it. I will test for Copper. I don't know what else to do at this point. :-(


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

Sounds frustrating. Maybe take anything biological out of the tank other than fish to see if things improve? Wood, plants, Etc. What type of gravel do you use?


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## Grandwitch (Jan 30, 2013)

I removed everything from the tanks except the wood cuz Pleco's need it. As to Gravel, I bought 2 50 lb bags of Bulk Gravel from my LFS. Its just natural crushed aquarium gravel. I remember in the old days I used to use Silica Sand, now you can't due to dust in the Lungs. It stays in the Lung's. I've even used chicken scratch gravel. Now I don't risk anything!. I buy everything from the LPS, boil it before using and rinse the Devil out of it! Yes it is very frustrating. I've spent so much money on my Babies, and then they die. I feel like such a newb. I'll get the test kit for copper and other metals tomorrow. I want a tank od Discus, but not til I solve my problem. Thank You all for your help and suggestions.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

This definitely looks frustrating.

Try the following to see if it helps you.
1. If using canister filter, open it up and check for any dead materials (maybe a small fish got sucked up into it or dead plant materials?), then check water parameters to see if anything is off. Higher nitrates is ok and expected. 
2. If you can, do a daily 10% water change for 10 days and monitor fish behaviour
3. Check for heater malfunction (temperature fluctuations)

BTW, are the fish eating fine?
You mentioned, they look and act perfectly healthy. Do they just die overnight or do they show signs of stress for a few days before they die?


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## Grandwitch (Jan 30, 2013)

The fish eat fine. Sadly, I have lost 2 male Angels overnight and my new Angel fry. Taking a water sample to my LFS to test for a second opinion, and get some media to help he said he has. I'd just give up and sell everything if I didn't have such a passion for this. Thanks All.


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## Grandwitch (Jan 30, 2013)

Nothing like that and I haven't purchased any fish in a month or so.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

More questions, maybe it will help find answers:

How many fish in each tank?
How many/what kind of filters in each tank?
How often are filters cleaned?
Powerheads?
Air pumps?
Feeding, what kind of food/how often?

Consider throwing a sponge filter in the tank if you don't have one. Helps surface agitation, and reduces chances of cycling when you clean other filter.

earthy smelling tank is good, stinky smelling filter, not so good. As already mentioned, 10-20% daily water changes can not hurt. Do you add prime with your water changes?

Good luck, losing fish isn't fun.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Go see Arron for help at Animal house he may be able to help very intelegent knowledeble! take water sample with you! Good luck!!
he is working Sunday!!


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your issues. That sucks. Have you tried pulling out some healthy fish and putting them in a completely new hospital setup? If they stay healthy, that at least would help you determine whether it's an environmental thing or a disease. If your municipality is adding chlorine to the water, I would definitely be adding prime with each water change. If you want to get extreme on eliminating all factors, I'd set the new tank up with bottled water (use one of the giant water cooler bottles). You'll likely need to does to bring the GH and KH on it up if you do that.


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## Grandwitch (Jan 30, 2013)

2-5 fish in a 25 gal Angel fry grow out and 1 pleco
40 fry in a 20, all is good in the water here
1 pr Jewels in a 10 gal. water good
33 gal 4 Angels , divided/ 1 male dying
4 20 gal tanks w/1 pr Angels in ea.
5 gal w/ 4 Endlers
10 gal w/Endlers ( 20 + all small )
15 gal 12-15 asst. Tetras and 1 pr of Rams. Also a Pleco and Cory's. Water good.
20 gal Wild Guppy tank w pleco's. Water great!
10 gal w/ 1 male pleco & fry( unknown how many, still wrigglers )
55 gal w/ 3 Angels, 5 Pleco's.
All tanks have wood that have Plecos. Very few plants. Anubis, Java Fern. Took out Java Moss as it was dying. I bought some Purigen and going to try it.
All my tanks have Ample filtration, some even 2 filter that are double filtration. I use Sponge Filters in Fry tanks and almost all the HOP filters have Pre-Filters on the intakes. The internal filters are 1-2 in those tanks. I clean my filters weekly, and I use Hagen Elite Mini Filters for aeration and water circulation. Air pumps I have a few to run the sponge filters and air-stones. I feed all kinds of foods. Flakes, Pellets, Freeze dried, frozen and live. I feed 2 x a day unless its fry; then I feed small amounts 4 times a day and do small water changes daily. I use Prime as my water conditioner, and they have removed Copper tests from the market; so I can't test for Coppers.
Filter Media is killing me. Top Fin filter media disintegrates after 1 week if you try to clean it you get a sink full of goop! That's it in a nut shell. I will let you all know how the Purigen works. Very costly, $38 for 250 gr that will treat 250 gal. Nice thing is its reusable! Thanks everyone!


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## kacairns (Apr 10, 2012)

Copper test kits are available, maybe store you went to just doesn't carry but JL had them yesterday when I was in the store!

API Copper Test Kit
Seachem MultiTest Copper Test Kit


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## Grandwitch (Jan 30, 2013)

I ordered one online. Now its just a waiting game.


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