# Need help diagnosing pearl gouramis



## BadFish (Dec 23, 2016)

Sorry about the bad pics... micro bubbles and constantly moving pectoral fins made things difficult.

Tank is cycled
29 gallon
temp 80.5
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0ish
30-50% water changes every 3-4 days

1 healthy balloon blue ram
1 male pearl gourami with white spot under lip and white spot on pectoral fin
1 female pearl gourami with hazy eyes and greyish spots on pectoral fin

Here's the story... sorry for the length of post.

A month ago I got a pair of 4 plus inch pearl gouramis from the same source. They were extremely shy and it took me a couple days to notice that the female had cloudy eyes. Both eyes are equally hazy and haven't gotten noticeably worse or better. Upon closer inspection she also had a couple of small spots on her pectoral fins which I initially thought were ich... no spots on body. The male also had a strange spot under his lower lip that I thought may have been an injury from freaking out in the new tank it was definitely larger than ich and looked kind of indented which is why I suspected he had hurt himself. It took them about a week and a half to start eating and they spawned and ate their eggs once before they started taking any food from me. They now accept flakes and brine shrimp.

I decided to treat the tank for ich as that is what I thought was going on with the females pectoral fin and I had witnessed the male flash once or twice on a thermometer and a plant. I slowly increased temperature to 85-86 which was the maximum for my heater. I also added pure pickling salt with water changes to treated tap water to slowly increase salinity to just over 1 tsp per gallon. I also did water changes every 3-4 days with gravel vacs. I kept the heat up for 14 days and saw no improvement. The spots on the females fins didnt move, if it had been ich they should have fallen off. Her eyes stayed the same. The male got a spot or two on his pectoral fins as well, the spot on his lip became rather white and is now a distinctly raised bump but does not appear to be fuzzy. I was becoming increasingly suspicious that this was in fact not ich. I lost power for several hours and the temp dropped so I resolved to cease ich treatment and make them as comfortable as possible to reduce stress and hope for improvement. I've now done 2 50% water changes to remove a good deal of the salt.

Their issues don't appear to be improving but also don't appear to be getting drastically worse or progressing quickly. I'm really not sure what to do about it. Perhaps the heat treatment made it worse if it was a mild fungal or bacterial infection? I don't want to medicate unless I can get a solid diagnosis, I also don't want to ignore it if it is a risk. Is it fungal, bacterial, secondary symptoms of internal parasites or flukes? I really had expected the cloudy eyes to clear up by now at least as they've been in my nice clean tank for a month. I'd really appreciate any advice on this one. I'm stumped!


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## BadFish (Dec 23, 2016)

I've read many conflicting opinions on the use of worming medications as a precautionary measure. Would it be a good idea to treat the whole tank (with plants and healthy fish included) with a broad spectrum anti parasitic like kusuri wormer plus to rule out the possibility of parasites? Or is it a dangerous and stressful rout to take?


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## mollyb (May 18, 2010)

I have never seen any stress from deworming, that Kusori stuff seems very kind. IMHO. That doesn't look like worms to me, but who knows. Might just be irreversible damage from before and the fish will be healthy, just not with cleared up eyes. good luck, Brent


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## BadFish (Dec 23, 2016)

Thanks Brent. The longer they go without improving/not getting worse the more I wonder if perhaps you are right and they have just suffered some damage that will never go away. The spotted fin on the female almost looks like the rays have been bent slightly when I get a decent view. They may have been handled roughly during netting at some point. Still could be a bit of something infecting the injury but as long as it doesn't get worse I suppose I'll leave them be.


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## BadFish (Dec 23, 2016)

Thought I'd post an update. Sadly, she has worms... Im unsure of the type but I fear it may be camallanus. Very difficult to get a good view as they don't come out very far but there are definitely several tiny reddish things poking out from her vent a millimetre or two. So far other fish aren't showing any worms but I assume everyone has been infected. To make matters worse the poor girl was being constantly chased and cornered by the male and was starting to get too stressed, she lost a few scales from being harrassed so Ive moved her to a 10 gallon Q tank until she is cured of the worms. Once she's healthy I'll be looking to re-home her as I doubt the male will ever leave her alone. 

Kusuri wormer plus in currently in the mail... I plan to dose it once when I get it and then once more after 2 weeks to kill off any that hatch from eggs or may have been missed. Does this sound like a good course of action?


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## Geoffrey (Jun 24, 2015)

> there are definitely several tiny reddish things poking out from her vent a millimetre or two


 Sounds like camallanus. I think fenbendazole can treat the worms, but I don't know if flubendazole has the same effect. However, levamisole is a better treatment which you could get from Pat at Canadian Aquatics.

Cloudy eyes are usually bacterial, so it would be unrelated to the parasites.


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## mollyb (May 18, 2010)

I'm not sure that Kusori wormer will work on camallanus, they are actually nematodes, not cestodes, I know levamisole works great on camallanus though, Pat seems to be the source!. This is so common of a problem, surprised the drug is not more readily available.


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## BadFish (Dec 23, 2016)

I have read that kusuri can be effective against camallanus but the overwhelming consensus is that levamisol is the way to go so Ive contacted Pat. Thank you all for your input.


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## BadFish (Dec 23, 2016)

For piece of mind Im going to treat all of my tanks. As far as disinfecting equipment such as syphon, bucket, net etc. goes I normally use diluted bleach followed by a rinse in freshwater and dechlorinator. I assume bleach is sufficient to kill eggs/larva can anyone confirm?


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## mollyb (May 18, 2010)

can't confirm, but it sounds like a good idea. Will be real interested in seeing if this clears up the eye issue.


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## BadFish (Dec 23, 2016)

Me too. While frustrating this has definitely been a learning experience. Treated all tanks last night per Pats instructions and within one hour she expelled a clump of approximately 6 camallanus worms. Gross. She must be absolutely filled. Shes barely eating and Im hoping she can pass whatever is left. If she makes it ill post an update on the eye situation. I have a feeling its related.


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