# SUPER EPIC SUMP (freshwater)



## Niku (Feb 11, 2014)

Disclaimer: i have never built a sump ... nor did i really know how they worked other then dirty water goes in one side .... unicorns and rainbows happens... magic fish growing clean water comes out the other ... similar to my canister knowledge when i first got into the hobby.

with that being said i looked at my 90 gal planted tank the other day and said to my self, self we need more filtration. after a month of pricing the appropriate amounts of canisters my wallet cried and i wrote that idea off entirely. then i watched a dozen or so video on DIY canisters and shortly after realized how ugly and still inefficient that is. then i found out that aerobic bacteria is crazy effective in trickle or drip filters ... also known as bio towers? so at long last i was set that i was going to build a sump system for my tank 

now before i start in on my design and the question i have there after, yes im using a HOB over flow, yes i do know its a ridiculous system prone to low water issues, no there is no other option ... tank is tempered so i cant drill it and its already planted so im not switching tanks now.

so i guess to kick things off i will be using a variety of acrylic some 8MM for the sturdy walls some 6MM for the chambers and some 3MM for the trays in the bio tower. i will be chemically welding all parts together so it in the end will be one unit.

here is my first draft of the tank with sump and plumbing under neither









a few clarifications the dashed lines on the left of the sump is an acrylic rod to support that side of the moss farm. yes i really want a moss farm in my sump .... its federalized co2 injected water that is passing thru it anyways this is like a match made in heaven. then i can also break down my current moss farm and have one less non show tank in the house 

so seeing as i havent build, or setup, or helped setup one of these before i was looking for opinions on my current plans. any pitfalls i may run into with what i am currently thinking or if it lacks any one type of filtration.

lastly its hard to make out but that scale is one cube is 2" squared.

thanks in advanced for the help


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## smccleme (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm no expert, but I have run a sump on my 155g for a few years. It looks fine, other than the pre-filter on the overflow intake (I think that's what you have shown in your drawing). Of course you wouldn't want a pre-filter that would catch sediment and potentially plug, only a plastic type one similar to those on canister filter intakes.

And of course you should add an auto change water system while you're at it . This guy does a really nice job explaining how to do it.

fmueller.com Â» Continuous Automatic Water Change System (CAWC)


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

1) for a 90g, you don't need multiple return pumps.
2) normally with hob skimmers, you are using surface skimming to draw water which will stop taking in water once the water line is below the surface skimming part. With your u-tube, there is nothing from stopping your main tank flooding your sump.
3) I would recommand doing a surface skimming. Much easier to control the intake vs outflow ratio. And I would use a filter sock before your moss farm. With filter sock, you can reduce the use of sponges in the sump.


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## Niku (Feb 11, 2014)

thanks for all the insight guys  this lets me build it right the first time and not have to make a sump 2.0 and spend more money 

about the pre filter i was toying with having a sponge one despite the cleaning requirements, simply because i only had 3 mechanical chambers in my bio tower and i felt that wasn't enough but with this brilliant filter sock idea i will probably go back to either a plastic one or my favorite option a stainless one like the kind Charles sells. as for the water change system, i am currently EI dosing my tank so i stick to a strict once a week 50% water change as to reset the fert amounts in my tank so i am never short of any. im sure i could adapt my dosing to this system but at the same time i have a water change system for my tap and it gives me an opportunity to spray down my filter returns and intakes with hydrogen peroxide so they don't get green. 

as for your points Charles 

i am using multiple pumps because i got some submersible pumps for a ridiculous price and want to see if they will actually work for this. so that part is more of an experiment. with that being said... if i hook it up correctly with check valves it will mean that if one of my 3 or 4 pumps goes down my system will still keep on pumping ... so that is a possible plus? 

if you look at the picture of my HOB you will see a 2 chamber box that my u pipe flows into, the baffle separating the chambers will be set at the appropriate water level of the tank. in my head i see the 2 water levels equaling out in a perfect world and the water would only flow down to the sump after more water was pumped back into the tank thus pushing the water level in the HOB up and over the baffle ? i may be wrong with my thought process tho... the reason i'm not doing a skimmer is with the euro bracing in my tank it would get really intrusive to my no tech look i am going for. where as i can slide a 16MM clear acrylic tube down the very corner where the braces have a hole and it will be practically invisible ... much like what i am going to do with clear acrylic for my return spouts as well. i want it to have a very ADA Lily pipe feel ... but with out the massive price tag .

so would you say with a filter sock it would eliminate the need for sponge in my tower all together ... like instead i could run 2 trays of different floss and then convert the bottom box into a second type of bio media ? and also do you know of or sell a filter sock with a ring smaller then 4". i would want to machine a ring adapter for the inside of the second HOB chamber and then weld an acrylic pipe onto the bottom of the box to make room for the sock to expand but unfortunately i only have 4 " behind my tank to begin with ... i could get a friend or 2 to come over when i do a 70 or 80% water change and move the tank forward an inch or 2 but if there was a 3" filter sock readily available i would go that route first as i like how close my tank is to the wall.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

You need a skimmer box to balance the water. One sit inside of your tank, the other one sits outside of your tank with a U-tube connecting both. When the water in your tank goes lower than the skimmer part, the water stops flowing into the outside part of your chamber, therefore, the flow will stop. However, since both inside part and outside of the skimmer still has water, the U-tube will not lose suction. As the water level increase in your tank, water will start to flow into your inside part of your skimmer, therefore, suction of the U-tube begins again.

Now with your design, the long tube sits inside of your tank will stop sucking in water if and only if your outside skimmer bow is higher than your tank. And only if you have a second chamber of your outbox which is lower than your first part of your chamber connecting with another U-tube to cause the water to balance out as well. It can work, but much more work than a regular normal HOB skimmer box.


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## Niku (Feb 11, 2014)

i think i see what your getting at. haha nothing about my tank is ever "normal" pretty sure my design is simplistically bullet proof but i have been known to be wrong before. so i think im going to learn this one the ward way  thanks for all your advice Charles i picked up a filter sock and modified my plans to add a sock chamber to my HOB to take care of the mechanical side. thus allowing me to change my drawers to one drawer of pot scrubbers and one drawer of floss. 

i picked up some acrylic today after work so i think tomorrow im gonna try my luck at cutting some pieces and getting this ball rolling  

if any mod would be so kind as to transfer this thread to the DIY section i think this plan is going to come into reality 

thanks all again


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## Niku (Feb 11, 2014)

well a week has passed and progress has been made. Basic structure is done and setting up ... gotta say i have never used acrylic solvents to weld joints together before ... and cant say i like the method ... seeing as my whole tank will drain into this sump i am probably going to caulk it as well as added insurance for when i go on vacation, to keep my mind at ease.

here is a few shots of the process today

first setup with braces to keep her steady while i welded all the structural joints








attaching the back wall and welding all the other joints that werent face down in the last setup 








last setup attaching the bottom ... yes i like clamps 








andddddd as i left it when it was time to sleep ... aka now 








i am trying to have the rest of the bracing and baffles in by this weekend but then it will probably take a bit of a halt as i am hell bent to make every stainless fitting my self so that they fit flawlessly


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## Niku (Feb 11, 2014)

quick question ... does anyone know if there is any issue with running heaters in the bio chamber with the ceramic media?

like will it kill any of the bacteria or effect filtration ?


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## Rometiklan (May 11, 2010)

There should not be any problems with filtration if you place the heater in the bio-chamber. You should place a heater guard over the entire length of the heater to prevent contact points along the heater glass.


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