# CRS breeding shrimp tank setup



## summit

So the time is nearing that I will be able to move the fish from my 8 gallon bowfront and set up my CRS shrimp tank in it. To give you some background its got an aquaclear 20, stealth heater, and duel 6W T5HO lighting with crypts, flame moss, petite nana and micro sword. I was hoping I could use this thread for the many questions that will pop up, and the few I have now 

I read that to have good sucess breeding CRS that you need a tank 20G or larger, is this true? or will it be fairly easy to breed in an 8 gallon?

What kind of water change schedule would be ideal?

Currently I have black fluorite as a substrate, I also have fluorite black sand, and carib sea crystal river, I was thinking of switching out the fluorite to the fluorite black sand before adding shrimp, or am I better with the aged fluorite that has been in there for 2 years?

What can I use for a sponge for the intake of my aquaclear 20? I was thinking of buying this: Hydro Sponge Filter Max I Prefilter - Pets & Ponds

Any fish at all, perhaps ottos? or will they compete for food?

Thanks!


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## MananaP

Bred crs successfully in a 5g on ada soil. No heater and just regular 50% water changes every week.


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## qyrus

CRS will breed fine in an 8G. Just keep the water ammonia/nitrate free and at a 6-6.4 pH and you should be set. I'd avoid fish- unless you're heavily planted your fry population will take a hit; otto's might work, but I've no experience with them with shrimps.

Jim


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## effox

Ottos' are fine with shrimp. Never had any ill effects or delays to breeding as a result of them.

Being a smaller tank I should add that it's easier to have swings, so make sure you have a good buffer, and routinely do water changes. If you go with ADA soil, which I suggest, you'll need to wait out the initial ammonia spike that is bound to ensue.


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## mysticalnet

my friend breeds CRS in a 2 gallon, it's not about the size, it's about the water.


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## summit

thanks for all your replies. As far as substrate goes, is sand preferred over gravel for shrimp? I like the look of black fluorite sand over black fluorite, and wanted to switch it out, but not if its going to be worse for the shrimp.

Being as they are detrius feeders, and I would have no fish to start, would gravel/sand vaccuming still be necessary during a water change? or can you simply change out the water only for maintenance without vaccuming the substrate?


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## MananaP

If you like the dark gravel look and want to be on the safe side and make sure they do well go with ADA soil this is the magic soil for crs IMHO.


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## effox

Learning my lesson the hard way, I agree with MananaP, you'll want ADA soil. Florabase works too, but I'd stick with ADA soil. It'll give you the PH level you want for the to breed proficiently and the buffer for them to live happily and productively.


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## summit

thanks, I will have to look into the ada soil, never seen it before. I already have both fluorites however I would hate to buy more, but if its good for long term health its better to start out the right way, I was planning on buffering with seachem equilibrium and alkaline, what is it about ada soil that the shrimp like?


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## effox

Pros:
- The soil is acidic (perfect PH)
- It's dark in colour so it makes the shrimps' colours pop
- It buffers the water to a perfect level

Cons:
- $50 a bag, and can be hard to acquire sometimes.
- Lasts about a year before needing more to top off
- Initial ammonia spike may last up to a couple of weeks depending on your filtration unit


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## summit

effox said:


> Pros:
> - The soil is acidic (perfect PH)
> - It's dark in colour so it makes the shrimps' colours pop
> - It buffers the water to a perfect level
> 
> Cons:
> - $50 a bag, and can be hard to acquire sometimes.
> - Lasts about a year before needing more to top off
> - Initial ammonia spike may last up to a couple of weeks depending on your filtration unit


Thanks!, I will have to get out and check out my local stores to see if they stock any.


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## effox

I've got a feeling you won't find it at local stores, but I could stand corrected. Our sponsor Canadian Aquatics is importing some as well speak though however. Get in contact with "Mykiss" it'll be quite the drive to Richmond from your place, however it will be worth every penny IMO.


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## mysticalnet

yeah you won't find ADA in local fish stores, ask Canadian Aquatics, maybe April too?


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## MananaP

If you are using it in a small tank you won't need that much if you but a 9L bag for 50 that will probebly last you few years LOL if you intend to use it on the 8g tank or use it if you ever upgrade to a bigger tank in the near future. I wasted so much money before because i did not do my homework and just jump on buying 200-300 worth of crs and they slowly died within a month time. I was using eco complete then LOL.


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## bodo

*crs tank ada*

if the ADA will last about a year...then would it be very hard to top up the tank with new soil..since there should be a lot of crs in the tank after a year and the new soil will release so much ammonia???

also with the saying that the ADA last about a year, does it mean its "buffering ability" is gone??


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## mysticalnet

I dunno about lasting a year, mine has been a couple of years and it still buffers to pH 6.6.


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## CRS Fan

ADA substrate can last longer if you stick with slower growing ferns and mosses for plants. If you use quick growing stem plants, then the soil can be depleted quicker, Strong roots cause the substrate to deplete quicker and get reduced faster. If you column dose, this will also help to extend the life of the soil. Some people use this soil for up to 3 years.

I would suggest trying ADA Amazonia II as the choice of substrate. It tends to buffer the PH a little lower the ADA I, and has less of an ammonia spike when set-up initially. Here is link (from a well-know shrimp forum) on how to quickly cycle ADA substrate (this was done with ADA I). Canadian Aquatics often has ADA soil in.

Hopefully this helps !

Best Regards,

Stuart


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## MananaP

bodo said:


> if the ADA will last about a year...then would it be very hard to top up the tank with new soil..since there should be a lot of crs in the tank after a year and the new soil will release so much ammonia???
> 
> also with the saying that the ADA last about a year, does it mean its "buffering ability" is gone??


The end of the day it is still your preference, i mean i have heard many sides of the story regarding how long ADA soil last for shrimps. If you use under gravel filter it shortens it's life also as per some breeders. As i said if you top up, use very little at a time per few days maybe a cup or half a cup only. If your tank is fully established and bacteria colony is at maximum level there shouldn't be any problem. CRS are not that sensitive as i thought they would be in the past, you will be surprised how hardy they are if you do everything right IME.


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## JTang

You guys make it sounds so easy! I never have any success in kepping crs. They all disappeared after a few months... so far I have gone through at least 50 of them! I have Florabase n a XP2 on a 20gal. Ph is at 7.0 (prob too high for breeding crs?). 

Is ADA really the answer!?


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## MananaP

JTang said:


> You guys make it sounds so easy! I never have any success in kepping crs. They all disappeared after a few months... so far I have gone through at least 50 of them! I have Florabase n a XP2 on a 20gal. Ph is at 7.0 (prob too high for breeding crs?).
> 
> Is ADA really the answer!?


Works for everyone else.


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## jiang604

JTang said:


> You guys make it sounds so easy! I never have any success in kepping crs. They all disappeared after a few months... so far I have gone through at least 50 of them! I have Florabase n a XP2 on a 20gal. Ph is at 7.0 (prob too high for breeding crs?).
> 
> Is ADA really the answer!?


you can breed CRS in pH as high as 7.2. It maybe your other params which needs tweeking


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## qyrus

ADA is definitely suitable for CRS breeding, but not necessary. My CRS are breeding fine in a 7G Eco-Complete tank. Perhaps your water is lacking calcium?

Jim


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## ninez

qyrus said:


> ADA is definitely suitable for CRS breeding, but not necessary. My CRS are breeding fine in a 7G Eco-Complete tank. Perhaps your water is lacking calcium?
> 
> Jim


What ppm of calcium are we aiming at? any idea?
Thanks


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## qyrus

ninez said:


> What ppm of calcium are we aiming at? any idea?
> Thanks


You're going to have to ask an expert for that one, I just add about 1/2 tsp. of Seachem Equilibrium and 0.5ml of Stability during my water change. This brings my GH to about 8 according to an API test kit.

Jim


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## ninez

qyrus said:


> You're going to have to ask an expert for that one, I just add about 1/2 tsp. of Seachem Equilibrium and 0.5ml of Stability during my water change. This brings my GH to about 8 according to an API test kit.
> 
> Jim


GH 8? quite hard 

Thanks

I am thinking about getting Replenish or Equilibrium soon.
But not sure how high I should aim the GH at.


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## bumblebee

Mine about 3 to 4 GH using API and Equilibrium. I am only using play sand. 



ninez said:


> GH 8? quite hard
> 
> Thanks
> 
> I am thinking about getting Replenish or Equilibrium soon.
> But not sure how high I should aim the GH at.


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## ninez

bumblebee said:


> Mine about 3 to 4 GH using API and Equilibrium. I am only using play sand.


That's what I was gonna ask.

If you have the right water parameter, do you still need ADA soil ??
Or can I go with a bare bottom tank?


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## Tn23

I agree that ADA is suitable but not necessary. I have mine breeding in Florabase as well.


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## waynet

It is my first time keeping CRS. Currently, I have 1 pregnant female. I hope the eggs by hatch. I use Saechem Equilibrium and Alkaline buffer. My pH is very high (7.2-7.4). I hope the eggs will hatch.

I am using bare bottom. No substrate.


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## tang daddy

crs can be kept in higher ph but wont breed you need a ph of 6-6.5...

but I am no expert just read about and heard experience from other breeders, also crs do eat the ADA soil for minerals!


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## MadgicBug

First time at it, go with the safe route and use ADA. You can just put a thin layer on top of eco-complete. This will mask some of the water parameters tweaks, minerals and diet requirements.

Once you get a better feel and experience, you can probably do it without ADA.


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## summit

So I got my new shrimp tank set up last week, I ended up using the fluorite black sand as I had it on hand and wanted to use it, and I had equilibrium, alkaline buffer and acid buffer to get the proper levels for breeding lying around anyways.

I got my GH/KH levels to 5/3 respectively but my PH is at 7.8 and from what I understand I want it at about 6.5 to breed CRS? Being as the shrimp and ottos are already in there, how much can I safely drop the PH per week during my water change to get to my desired 6.5?

Also what kind of water change schedule should I do with an 8 gallon tank with an aquaclear 20 (with sponge so its shrimplet safe) 10 tiger ottos and 20 CRS? I was thinking 25% per week?

Thanks!


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## MananaP

summit said:


> So I got my new shrimp tank set up last week, I ended up using the fluorite black sand as I had it on hand and wanted to use it, and I had equilibrium, alkaline buffer and acid buffer to get the proper levels for breeding lying around anyways.
> 
> I got my GH/KH levels to 5/3 respectively but my PH is at 7.8 and from what I understand I want it at about 6.5 to breed CRS? Being as the shrimp and ottos are already in there, how much can I safely drop the PH per week during my water change to get to my desired 6.5?
> 
> Also what kind of water change schedule should I do with an 8 gallon tank with an aquaclear 20 (with sponge so its shrimplet safe) 10 tiger ottos and 20 CRS? I was thinking 25% per week?
> 
> Thanks!


The question is, how are you going to lower your PH without using any additives? That is why an active soil like ADA is good because it will not harm shrimps and it buffers your ph around 6.6-6.8 which is perfect for CRS. To lower PH others use RO water, peat. Our water here is perfect for crs, the PH will be lowered by soil and KH is around 0-1 and GH you have to use what you are using now.


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## summit

I was planning on using acid buffer to drop the PH to 6.5, so I was more curious as to how much per week I can drop the ph? 

Also the water we have here was testing at 0/0, from the research I have done you want around 5GH and 3KH for CRS breeding, thats why I used equilibrium and alkaline to bring those levels up from 0/0 and need to take the PH down, is this information incorrect?


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## MananaP

summit said:


> I was planning on using acid buffer to drop the PH to 6.5, so I was more curious as to how much per week I can drop the ph?
> 
> Also the water we have here was testing at 0/0, from the research I have done you want around 5GH and 3KH for CRS breeding, thats why I used equilibrium and alkaline to bring those levels up from 0/0 and need to take the PH down, is this information incorrect?


KH of 0-1 is good all you need really is to raise GH and as i said what you are using right now is OK to use as i know someone is using the same stuff "equilibrium" to raise GH on his crs tank. KH i would not bother as it is perfect for crs 0-1. Ph you need to lower, if you are not using any active soil like ADA i would suggest using RO water.


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## summit

Thanks, I will slowly start phasing out the alkaline buffer then, and maintain the equilibrium ti give me a 5GH, will also start to drop the PH down by about 0.2 per week until I hit 6.5-6.8 and cross my fingers


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## MananaP

summit said:


> Thanks, I will slowly start phasing out the alkaline buffer then, and maintain the equilibrium ti give me a 5GH, will also start to drop the PH down by about 0.2 per week until I hit 6.5-6.8 and cross my fingers


Sounds like a good plan GL.


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## summit

So just out of curiousity, is some sort of moss absolutely required to breed CRS? Or will they breed in a planted setup with hornwort, micro sword, petite nana, and crypts as long as water quality is top notch and parameters are within range for breeding?

And generally speaking is excel ok to dose 1/2 strength with a CRS breeding setup? or is it generally not a good idea at all? any ither fertilizers I need to watch?


Thanks!


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## tang daddy

you dont need moss to breed crs, however shrimp are comparable to hungry rats.... so you have to have stuff for it to eat. My crs ate all my downoi and are constantly picking on the mini pellia and moss, they also on the ada picking on that too.

Try seeing if you can buy a litre of ADA to add to your substrate to lower the ph!

I would not recomending dosing your tank unless you want to find dead shrimp when you wake up.


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## summit

So I was looking around the tank last night to find the tiniest baby CRS shrimp, so it looks like its becoming successful, very exciting, especially for my little boy who got to see them! What is suprising is I don't yet have the water parameters in check where I wanted them, I guess they are not all that fussy afterall, PH is at 7.4 GH is at 7 KH at 4 which I thought was a little too high.

Just curious as to if assasin snails will eat shrimplets? I could swear the assasin snail in there was going after them, and I could not find any shrimplets this morning.


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## tang daddy

As most will tell you....the challenge is not to have the baby crs born but rather to keep them alive. Long ago about 2 years back I had silica sand and black gravel and crs, while I saw babies in the tank which was an accomplishment they perished slowly....

There is no way assasin snails will eat baby crs, the babies are far too fast although without food the baby crs will not survive more than 1 week.... somebody correct me if I am wrong!


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## rwong2k10

congrats on your success,

from my experience, assassin snails, i've had more shrimplets survive without assassin snails tank vs. ones with them in there


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## summit

Thanks, its pretty cool thats for sure, I have counted up to 12 at one point, but more often than not I can only spot 4-5 at a time, unless I drop some shrimp food or algae wafer in, then they start to come out for food. I thought they would stay in relatively one spot, but I am finding them everywhere.

So at what age do they get hardier and have a better chance to make it to be considered sucessful in the shrimp world? Trying to keep track of what I have in there compared to elapsed time, right now I would say they are around 5mm in length.


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## tang daddy

5mm is already a good size if you can sustain crs babies for more than 1 month from being born your successful!


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## summit

tang daddy said:


> 5mm is already a good size if you can sustain crs babies for more than 1 month from being born your successful!


cool thanks for the info, well its been 1 week now, no idea how long in total though as I had not looked for any babies at this point, it was unexpected, so I will have to go by when I noticed them  My 3 year old son actually pointed them out to me, the things kids notice....

Problem is I need to do a water change, would it be best to just top off the water for now unless the nitrates get over 15-20 and not worry about the change? I don't want to suck them up.


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## tang daddy

You can just top up, most people dont do waterchanges on shrimp tanks...I sometimes get lazy aswell, shoosh dont tell anyone....

You dont need to gravel clean1 I never do, if you do waterchanges do small amounts....

here's my weekly routine for the 10g and 15g tanks.... a 5g bucket of aged water for top up and WC's

remove 2 liters twice a week and add it back up, however for adding water I drip it in. Dripping water causes less stress on the crs....

If you're handy you can build a drip system. Here's what you'll need:

some silicone

1 piece of air line tubing

irrigation drip with adjustment control. basically buy these in the plumbing section at home depot.

and lastly a container with a lid from the dollar store.

drill a small hole in the bottom of the container, plug irrigation drip nosel and silicone alittle on the inside of the container, let it dry and attach tubing...

it's as easy as that!


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## summit

tang daddy said:


> You can just top up, most people dont do waterchanges on shrimp tanks...I sometimes get lazy aswell, shoosh dont tell anyone....
> 
> You dont need to gravel clean1 I never do, if you do waterchanges do small amounts....
> 
> here's my weekly routine for the 10g and 15g tanks.... a 5g bucket of aged water for top up and WC's
> 
> remove 2 liters twice a week and add it back up, however for adding water I drip it in. Dripping water causes less stress on the crs....
> 
> If you're handy you can build a drip system. Here's what you'll need:
> 
> some silicone
> 
> 1 piece of air line tubing
> 
> irrigation drip with adjustment control. basically buy these in the plumbing section at home depot.
> 
> and lastly a container with a lid from the dollar store.
> 
> drill a small hole in the bottom of the container, plug irrigation drip nosel and silicone alittle on the inside of the container, let it dry and attach tubing...
> 
> it's as easy as that!


Yeah I have been trying to get something done similar, less water changes is always nice  when setting up the tank I goofed on the levels and originally had it at GH9, KH 7 PH7.8 kind of thing if I remember right now, so I have been doing about 20% water changes weekly to bring it down gradually to my desired GH5 KH3 PH6.5. I also have tiger ottos in with them, so its a balancing act it seems I am still figuring out to keep both happy.

Right now I have been treating the water to get the proper GH/KH/PH levels, then using a small maxi-jet pump on its lowest flow control setting to syphon the water back into aquaclear filter, which then fills up and runs into the tank quite slowly, it takes about 20 min to replenish the 2 gallons of water, would that still be too quick?

Thanks for the tips on the drip system, seems easy enough, I think that would be useful to build for my other tanks for purposes of dosing equilibrium, alkaline buffers during water changes.


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## gtec2775

thanks for the tips..nice to learn from the pros...


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