# New Tank, Ich and Dying Danios



## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

I set up my ten gallon, planted (anubias, hornwort, indian fern, bacopa monnieri, saggitaria), with diy co2, tank on April 13th. 

There was a female and three males, and they were breeding every morning, totally active...perfect. I did 25 % pwcevery morning, ammonia never got over .25 ml/l and Nitrite never over .3 ml/l (according to Tetra test kit) 
I bought three zebra danios to get the cycle started ( i should have done a fishless cycle, i know now), and they were wonderful until April 27th, when the ich came. 

I treated with Rid ich, continued pwc's before treatment. There were no spots after four days, I continued treatment for few more days, then put the carbon back in the filter to remove medication. 3 days ago ( May 4th) all 4 of my danios were either on the bottom, hiding under a rock, or at the top of the tank, very lethargic, at times flashing, swimming erratically, reddened gills, gasping heavily. ph 6.8 , ammonia 0, nitrite less than .3 (lowest the test kit goes), nitrate low but visible at less than 5, temp 23 celsius. 

The female died first the night before last, and this morning, one of the males has spasmed his way out of the world.

So now I have two danios...i see that there is a spot on of them (ich has returned, or never went away, probably because the temp was too low) , so more Rid Ich this morning. They are not at the bottom of the tank anymore, but are still acting slightly lethargic at times. 

Levels are Ph 7.0
Gh 4
Kh 1
ammonia 0
nitrite - less than .3 
nitrate under 5
temp 23 - 24 c

Water conditioner - Hikari Ultimate X
Food - Omega One colour flakes
- frozen bloodworms (Hikari)

I understand that the fish could have irreparable damage from the cycle, and that they have been weakened. 
Is there anything I've missed, other than the fishless cycle?

Thanks for any ideas.


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## Phillyb (Jan 18, 2011)

hey man i was always told about bumping the tempt 80-84 and adding lil aquarium salt.

good luck philly


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

salt can work but apparently danios can't handle salt...i'm slowly raising the temp..it's at 24 now...


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## szavi (Nov 21, 2010)

DianaHart said:


> I set up my ten gallon, planted (anubias, hornwort, indian fern, bacopa monnieri, saggitaria), with diy co2, tank on April 13th.
> 
> There was a female and three males, and they were breeding every morning, totally active...perfect. I did 25 % pwcevery morning, ammonia never got over .25 ml/l and Nitrite never over .3 ml/l (according to Tetra test kit)
> I bought three zebra danios to get the cycle started ( i should have done a fishless cycle, i know now), and they were wonderful until April 27th, when the ich came.
> ...


Sounds like this is quite a new setup and might have needed a bit more time to establish its bacteria colonies. Once established you should have 0 readings for your amonia and nitrite. Ich likes to rear its ugly head when fish are stressed and if your tank insn't properly cycled fish your fish could have been stressed. I have also found that too much water changing in a small tank before properly being cycled can also cause fish stress. Do you used biological booster like API Stress-Zyme or Seachem Stability, these help to rapidly establish your bio filter.

If you do get ich I would recomend Seachem Para Guard. Check out Seachem's site and follow their on line dirrections exactly and you'll rid your tank. And it does take 10-14 days to kill all the parasites, as the free swimming infectious stage is the only time they can be killed.

Go to their site and read for yourself, the aswers to most questions can all be answered, plus their tech support will get back to within 24hrs with any other questions.

Good luck,

Sean


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

I haven't used any bio boosters, just time and some ehiem rocks in the filter...Is ParaGaurd safe for plants?


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## szavi (Nov 21, 2010)

Absolutely, No problems just follow the instructions.

Please read all you can about seachem's products. There are tons of great articles from begginer to advanced. You'll learn alot. There is even great articles on tank cycling.
Check it out as I suspect your tank may not have been properly cycled. Remember cycling is not just 20 days then full speed ahead. You need to go gradually, adding fish slowly so bacterial colonies can grow in relation to your biological load.

Sean

Go Canucks Go

Join the fun, join the VAHS


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

I have been doing some reading on SeaChem products... they're marketed well.
I'm not sure I have to change the medication though, I'm rasing the temp slowly and going to dose with Rid Ich tomorrow. 

I did a 50 pwc today and it seemed to ease the stress on the danios

I was trying for a silent cycle, and I never did get any ammonia spikes. Nitrite got to .5 at the highest. Ammonia has been reading 0 since April 21st and Nitrites 0 ( less than .3) since April 25th.


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## Nanokid (May 18, 2010)

hey

sounds like your tank is new, that happens. i find the older and more bio-diverse tanks are the most stable.

is your PH changing a - lot? you problem sounds like PH fluxuations. how did you cycle the tank?


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

My ph has been pretty stable in the 6.5 to 6.8 range from the beginning. It went up to 7.2 on May 5, 7.0 yesterday and today it is back in the 6.5 -6.8 range after a water change. The first fish died on May 4th, and the Ph was higher than it has been. 
It is a very new tank, the fish went in April 13th, so not even a month old. I am starting up a little 4 1/2 gallon as a quarantine tank at the moment, and I'm going to cycle with Ammonia, no fish. 
At the moment, the Ph is back to 6.5.


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

When you do your ich treatments, bump the temp. up, that will speed up the parasite life cycle, do a vacuum on the gravel, hopefully that will suck up eggs in the substrate. Bleach and declorinate your vacuum and bucket.

If you do lose your fish, clean out your tank and you can use pure ammonia for a fishless cycle. There have been several articles written on the subject.

Steve


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you tested KH? It sounds like you're getting some swings as Nanokid suggested as well. Probably not your main concern, but should be one down the road.


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

sean, i didn't really answer your question of how i cycled. The danios that are in right now are the cyclers, plus a lot of plants, 25% pwc per day during cycle.


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

yes, my kh is super low...at 1 degree using the tetratest kit.
i have been thinking i should raise it gradually, but I don't want to make any more changes right now that the fish are dropping.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Sorry I missed that (Canucks game drinking I suppose, my bad). Sorry!

Definitely want to raise that up a bit, give it time though.


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## szavi (Nov 21, 2010)

DianaHart said:


> yes, my kh is super low...at 1 degree using the tetratest kit.
> i have been thinking i should raise it gradually, but I don't want to make any more changes right now that the fish are dropping.


It sounds like you panicking a bit. Your tank is what, barely 30 days old. I know water changes are great but too many in an early tank can prevent the essential bacterial colonies from establishing. As you read more!!!! you'll find out that it is normal to get initial spikes in amonia, then later Nitrite peaks. As the bacteria feed on the amonia and nitrite, the populations grow overtime to a point where they are strong enough to prevent any detectable levels of either. If you keep trying to control the amonia/nitite in these early stages, by doing massive water changes then the bacteria will never grow. GO out and some stress-zyme or stability, they work.

And keep reading all the articles on the Seachem site you start getting the answers you need. If come to next wenesday VAHS meeting we chat about it in person all night long. 

Damn sticking Canucks

Sean 
North Van
Thank god for big tanks of Co2


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## Nanokid (May 18, 2010)

you haven't really cycled your tank. that's why your nitrite is starting to raise. you need to let the cycle run its course. do no water changes, just top ups and small feedings, and test weekly.

you should really try to cycle old school. the best way is really to go and get some gunky pond water, dump that in your filter. then add some bio material (i use frozen shrimp, a small piece) wait two weeks, and i add fish. yes, its old school, and i often get concerning looks from people. but every tank i cycle this way has never had a problem... by that, i have never had ich in a single tank for over 4 years.


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

Nanokid, my nitrite isn't rising, there has been minute nitrite and zero ammonia for a week and a half, but they did show up in the first and secon week. My nitrates are starting to show up. I did dump some scummy pond water in actually in the first week, with a half dead saggitaria plant that has really taken off...
In terms of water holding bacteria, from what I've been reading, it's the filter media and the substrate that hold the nanobacteria, not the water column.


Sean, I don't feel panicky, I grew up with fish breeding father and 14 tanks, and am familiar with ammonia spikes, and ich....I'm probably being overly anal about this tank b/c I haven't had fish in a few years, and school just ended so I have too much time on my hands to browse fish forums...the VAHS meeting is the one at the Aquarium? I was thinking about going to it actually , and the new group that's meeting at UBC sounds promising (45 gallon prize).

Thanks for the suggestions


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

I have been using the SERA ick treatment. Works everytime.


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## Slopster (Mar 14, 2011)

Most Tanks take 5-7 weeks for a cycle, fishless or not.Fishless cycle??? how do ya do that?? I was told to do that and another LFS PRO said how does that work? just keep throwing in food and let it Rot? IMHO get some water from your LFS and let it run it's course, and maybe add some fish, such as danios, maybe some tetra's, but your still looking at 5-7 weeks for a cycle.

Aquarium Salt works best for Ich alot of meds contain green malachite which in turn kills your cycling, try to stay away from that.

If you are cycling with Danio's and they get ich and say they die, then do a 50% water change and treat with Aquarium salt, the salt should take care of any Parasites being born and any eggs..


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks all for the ideas and suggestions.

A little update.
This morning the two surviving danios are looking a lot better. I'm raising the tank temp. in order to speed up the ich cycle..we'll see how they do.


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## DianaHart (Apr 19, 2011)

3 down out of the first 4 inhabitants of the tank. they have all died in the same manner and with 0 ammonia, 0 nitirite and very slight nitrates.

gasping at the surface, gasping at the bottom...1 last frantic swim and then..done maybe the ich bout affecting the gills? 

i don't know, i'm attributing this to cycling trauma.  boo


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