# New to planted - Tank tear down



## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

So we are going to try to do a first planted. I have been doing lots of research only to find to much information. First I will mention what we have so far.

33 gallon standard tank 
95 watt power compact light strip 
fluval 304 canister filter

So our plan is to just start low tech for now. I know I messed that up when I made George buy such a high light, but to late now. 
We are going to start with a DIY CO2, trying to keep costs down. 
we are unsure if we should go with florabase or eco-complete. We are also unsure how to really clean the tank with either of these in there. I have read that when you first start planting they say that you should only be able to see about 15-20% or the bottom. We will not be doing so many plants to start off with though. 
We also may look at worm castings as I know Lisa swears by them. We usally cap our eco with black gravel from north american pets but my concern with this tank is the kaluai loach and if it will be to hard on his skin. 
So my question is will my light work on a low tech tank for now? I have been told to just cut the lighting time. I also know that there will probably be an imbalance in all the elements. We are concerned about spending the money only to find out it is not the right way to do it. As in the lighting situation.

So to start we will be DIY C02 and substrait. Then later we will move into ei doseing.

Anyways any feed back would be appriciated, sorry if my post is a bit scattered it is 1:20am. Oh and George just picked up a piece of wood today at fraser aquariums only to find out that I think my tank is smaller than I think, but I think we could make it work. Oh yah we only plan to keep somewhat easy plants. Here is a pic of the tank and wood.

Ok I have just seen earth pellets on the tankspiration website and I am now curiuos about them. Has anyone on here tryed them or have any thought on if they work?


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## Nicklfire (Apr 21, 2010)

O.C.D Fishies said:


> So I am going to try to do my first planted. I have been doing lots of research only to find to much information. First I will mention what I have so far.
> 
> 33 gallon standard tank
> 95 watt power compact light strip
> ...


Welcome to the planted scene 

What i would highly suggest to you as a newbie to plants is to start with no more then 1.5-2 wpg, you wont NEED co2 at that point.

If you go with the light power you currently have you will have algae problems in no time, you will have a low plant biomass (not heavily planted) and fluxuating co2, and not dosing fertz.

As a newbie, substrate such as florabase or eco or flourite is just a matter of preference with color. I have used them all and each have there own benefit. Flourite black i have had good experience with, it didnt cloud and it looks good. With a planted tank you really dont have to do much for cleaning the substrate as waste is used as nutrients for the plants.

As many plants as you can fit in there in the start will help you with the algae battle, even if they are plants you dont care for much at least they can build up my biomass, then you replace them as time goes on.

You should never cut the lighting time, plants need the lighting period of about 8-10 hours a day, if anything cut the lighting watts. OR the other thing you can do is suspend the light from the ceiling or above the tank and that will cut the lighting watts for you, probably a good 12-16 inches to start and monitor plant growth and algae.

You should not dose co2 and go high light if you are not going to dose EI, there is no point, you are limiting the plants from nutrients.

Think of it this way. You need 3 things to live as a person. Food, water, sleep such as plants in the way they need light, co2, nutrients. What happens if we take food away from you, you might live for a while but it will stunt your growth and you will eventually die. What about water... same thing, what about sleep... same thing. If you limit something from plants in regards to co2,fertz,light they will eventually die. You can get away with NOT dosing co2 and fertz in a low tech aquarium because they get the co2 and fertz from the fish.

there are 3 stickies in the planted section, lighting, co2, and fertz, read them ALL that should give you some more insight.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi OCDFishies! What a great looking tank! And I think that driftwood will look really nice in there. Are you going to attach moss or ferns to it?

Regarding your light. I've only tried the no-tech way to growing plants, so I've never had a powerful lamp like that (though I'd love to give it a try). I think that Nicklfire's idea of suspending the lamp above the tank is a good one. You could experiment with that. Or, can you just remove or disable one of the bulbs in the fixture?

I hope that you keep a tank journal, so that we can see it progress! Good luck.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Nicklfire said:


> Welcome to the planted scene
> 
> What i would highly suggest to you as a newbie to plants is to start with no more then 1.5-2 wpg, you wont NEED co2 at that point.
> 
> ...


Thank you Nicklfire

I have read over the stickies that you mentioned, thank you for getting them onto the new site so fast. I think our biggest problem was trying to figure out how to work with the current light fixture. It is only one bulb so we can not just take one out. George is going to try and suspend it from higher like you suggested and see how that will work. Since buying a new light is not an option.

As for the C02 I have also read that is you are not diligent about keeping them going they will cause the ph to fluctuate to much and stress your fish. I am not sure if this would be a concern with one or two bottles?

Thank you for all the good information, We are now going to just focus on doing a good low tech and hopefully hanging the light will work. I have much more research to do now, and need to stop thinking I know what I am doing. lol. But the best way to learn is to make mistakes. And on the bright side We will have the high light when I can convince George to buy pressurized CO2 lol

Thank you again


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Morainy said:


> Hi OCDFishies! What a great looking tank! And I think that driftwood will look really nice in there. Are you going to attach moss or ferns to it?
> 
> Regarding your light. I've only tried the no-tech way to growing plants, so I've never had a powerful lamp like that (though I'd love to give it a try). I think that Nicklfire's idea of suspending the lamp above the tank is a good one. You could experiment with that. Or, can you just remove or disable one of the bulbs in the fixture?
> 
> I hope that you keep a tank journal, so that we can see it progress! Good luck.


Thank you Maureen

We were abit concerned that the drift wood would be to big, but many have said it will work great. We are thinking of attaching some java moss and ananubous (Sorry I am a horrible speller) to it. I really like the way yours looks. Hey you should come do our's lol. We got the wood cause I read that plecos do better when they can munch on it so hopefully they will be happier. It also has some great hiding spots for George's common guy, he is not a social guy. Our loach also has a ruff go of things trying to hid. He wants the cave the pleco is in but keeps getting kicked out. lol

Yah the light was a bad choice for now. But that is what happens when you get different opinions from different people. We though about suspending it before but I was told that you get the same result with cutting the light period. We are hopeful that this may work and will continue to just do a low light tank till we get some more experience.

We are going to keep a journal not to sure how much fun it will be but you will probably get to know all the don't do's for a planted lol. Since that seems to be our game.


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## ibenu (Apr 21, 2010)

You and I are in vancouver, if you came over I could do a trim and you could start with a full tank, utilizing the light from day one..Just a thought 

PM me if you like the plants you see in my journal as all would be available. I would say also you could fill with nitrate sponge plants like Hygro and such, even P.stellatus then slowly replace with plants you know you love.

Cheers!! Your gonna have great fun with your planted tank!


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

ibenu said:


> You and I are in vancouver, if you came over I could do a trim and you could start with a full tank, utilizing the light from day one..Just a thought
> 
> PM me if you like the plants you see in my journal as all would be available. I would say also you could fill with nitrate sponge plants like Hygro and such, even P.stellatus then slowly replace with plants you know you love.
> 
> Cheers!! Your gonna have great fun with your planted tank!


Thank you for the offer. I would love to come over just to pick your brain and have a look at your beautiful tank. I am so happy you got that one, it is amazing. As far as utilizing the light do you mean just leaving it on full power and not raising it???

We are first going to work on getting the fish healthy again, then we are going to start on getting our planted going.

Thank you again Lisa.


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## ibenu (Apr 21, 2010)

Get your self situated where you are comfortable to plant and them PM me, There is always lots to cut, doing a 33 (filling it) would be easy. That being said Im not even running 3 watts per gallon, I can sell you a gallon of metricide while you are here and discuss dosage. Its not pressurized CO2 but might be the difference between leaving light where it is and not getting Alage (carbon source for plants plus mild algaicide at the dosage similar to excel)

Id try, If it doesnt work you can look at raising it then. I was gonna toss my Aromatica cause I cant get it red at the depth and wattage I have but I think it would be perfect for your set up!

Im pro plants for fishes I think it contributes to good health. Not just the water quality but the places to make them feel more safe too.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

here is our tank now after adding some plants from capturedmoments thank you muchly they seem to be growing good. 
front view








back view









The fish seem to be way more happy with all the plants but my betta i know is sick and not to sure how to handle this one.

Sorry mods but could this thread be moved to the tank journals??? Thank you


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

nice job man, it doesn't take long before you get a handle on scapes and you seem to have definately have started way better than i did.

A couple lil hints.

Stem plants have a much better visual appeal when planted in groupings (3+ stems together)

The driftwood isn't there  if you wish to use it but think its too big, stand it on end, place in center, a bit to the left if you wish to keep the far left bushy. Driftwood is an awesome way to hide things like intakes and outtakes

is that air bubbles i see? if it is you definately need to stop it, its degassing all the dissolved co2 in your tank, the plants will make the fishies happy, and at night time the bulk of your tank will be less active so the surface exchange should suffice for oxygen levels.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey Neven thank you for the advice. We don't have any c02 going right now though so not to sure if that wil matter. 
As it turns out I am going to be moving within the next month so most of the planted plans will be on hold till then, but in the meantime I had a great and informative visit with Lisa and now our tank is chalked full of fun plants and I think it looks great. We are now doesing Micros and metricide as well. Sorry guys I am not at home so I wil post some pics of after Lisa's awesome job and my ummm job to try clean it up. lol We will see how that turns out. So Pics to come soon.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok so here is our tank after Lisa was here. I love it soooooooo much and I think George does. 








Here is after we added a few Lotus's and cleaned up the top a bit. Cut down one of the wysteria and took out most the water lettuce. We also got a few pleco caves from Pat (Mykiss) so that we do not have another scratched tiger barb.

















We are so pleased with our tank now and our fish are having the time of their lives. When I move we will be switching out the gravel for eco-complete and hopefully putting it on a new stand. We just need to figure out how to dose macros now.
We will also be adding the driftwood when I move, It is going to take up so much room.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

Nicely done =)


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

very nice, a big difference in 4 weeks


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

very nice, but as for your co2 comment, you dont need to dose co2 for it to be present, at night your plants will absorb oxygen and expell co2, not to mention fish will expel co2 aswell.  Low tech tanks dont dose co2, but they make sure they have very still surface and no air bubbling in the tank.

Light, Ferts, and co2 are the driving force of plant growth. You need them all in balance to grow, and to fend off algae. pretty much what you are doing now is severely limiting co2 in the tank, stunting growth and giving a means for algae to take a foot hold and use the excess nutrients.

on a side note: took me until now to realise that its a sticker on your tank.... i was wondering where to get a fresh water jelly fish for a while...


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok guys 
Yesterday George picked up some macros from Solar.
Thanks to 2wheelsx2 for his advice we got 
K2SO4 
KNO3
KH2PO4
and a small bottle of chelated micronutrient mix.
Today was the first day that our tank got the macros. So does this mean we have a high tech tank yet? Or does that come after the pressurized CO2 LOL.
I will be moving the tank on the 30th and will hopefully have it set up and running again on the 4thish, with the drift wood. Will post again after the move and the changes.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

For that 33 gallon, Metricide will easily manage the CO2 part, and allow you to keep the bubbler if you like.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok guys here is our tank, added driftwood and switched out the eco-complete. 
I totally forgot to take a pic of the growth, but it was doing really well.
Since moving we have lost lots of the plants and most the leaves are coming off, but this is what we managed to salvage. We also switched the stand to an antique buffet. (I know I know) We also upgraded from the fluval 304 to a 405, I hope there is no such thing as to much filteration. I hope that it will start to do a turn around soon and enjoy.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks good, Candy. In any move, there is going to be some disruption. I'm sure the tank will fill in very nicely soon for you.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you Gary. 
Upon closer inspection most the leaves are falling off, it dosn't look to good to me but i guess i will have to wait and see.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Are you dosing? And using Metricide?


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

Good thing u only lost some plants and no fish, hopefully everything will grow back and your tank will look full again


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Yah we have been dosing and doing metricide for the past 3 days. I think I just want it to be the way it was.
Caudia yah al the fish are doing good so far, the tiger barbs are a bit skittish in the 20 gallon but other than that they are good.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

It'll get there, they're probably just a bit shocked from the change of substrate.


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> It'll get there, they're probably just a bit shocked from the change of substrate.


And the move too


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok I am not sure what is going on all the plants are turning see through and dieing. Even the stocks are turning to mush. The only thing that we changed was the substrait to eco-complete and the move. We have been EI dosing and dosing metricide same as in the old place. They are not growing though. I thought that it was cause the move but even though they are back in the tank they are doing horrible. I am not sure what to do. Are these plants just toast?? Should we just get some new healthy ones? Could they not like the substrait change?? I am confused.
Any suggestions are appriciated.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

The substrate shouldn't cause that much damage, it would be limited to only a few species of plants suffering. There's a few possible causes i can see, one is root damage, but again, all plants shouldn't suffer.

Second is the metricide. what are you dosing? a tank at your size (33 gallon) works out to be 1.8 mL of metricide a day recommended. 2 mL likely will be fine. More than that and you risk worsening the situation. On top of that metricide often comes with another product called Activator or Plus. Don't use it. Metricide is meant to sterilize instruments, the other product with it is a reducing agent that enhances its abilities to kill things. Not good with fishies and plants. Another issue with metricide is the rare occurance you buy the wrong kind. Metricide 14 only for us. Its formula is tested, other varieties may have the same active ingredient that we want (at different concentrations), but it may be buffered with other additives to work differently with other agents to aid in it's primary purpose, killing stuff.

The third cause.... how long were the plants out of the water? a couple time's i've gotten carried away with rescaping and ended up killing the plants because i didn't put them in a bucket and keep em misted.

The best you can do now is removed the heavily damaged leaves as they'll likely hinder the recover of your plants. Give it more time, many species of plants need next to nothing left and they'll still grow. Also keep that metricide coming only at 2mL a day, even if theres no more plants left. That much dead plant matter can cause an algae outbreak so it'll serve two purposes in the recovery.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

neven said:


> Also keep that metricide coming only at 2mL a day, even if theres no more plants left.


Um...no, if there are no more plants left, you leave the lights off except when you want to see the fish. The fish don't need carbon.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Um...no, if there are no more plants left, you leave the lights off except when you want to see the fish. The fish don't need carbon.


im just saying it more from the angle that if they just lost the leaves, not the rootis, they may not need the carbon, but they'll need the light and the metricide will keep the algae away


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok guys thought I would give an up-date (a happy one this time too) All the plants seem to be coming back. I got a few more from Scholz as well. We are going to hopefully having an expert aqua-scaper coming in soon to make it beautiful. The right side and the back middle are very bare right now. lol anyways here's the pic.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

That's awesome Candy. Don't worry, with your new mad plant skills in dosing and Metricide, it'll fill in no time flat!


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks Gary lol, 
I thought we were losing our touch for a while there.


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks so good, i am gonna have to dose like u guys lol


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## halonine (Jun 7, 2010)

Tank's looking good right now 

I like the variety of plants you have used as well.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you guys. I thought I would give you an up-date. For some reason I am addicted to getting plants now so the tank is pretty stocked. I am just getting the hang of what works in the tank and what dosn't. (Good thing George knows I have O.C.D) Well I tryed to do my first aquascape and learnt that the so called carpeting plant I got from (somewhere) is in fact not a carpeting and I have so much of it already. But I tryed I think I need to start taking some plants out I guess if I want to keep putting more in there. Anyways here is our tank so far. Any suggestions are appriciated.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey guys thought I would post a pic before I rip out some of the plants. I got some nice red plants from CRS Fan that I am going to let fill in so that means I will have to get rid of some. It is too full in there right now.


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## ibenu (Apr 21, 2010)

LOOKING GREAT!! Nice to see the plants live on!! Glad they handled the move well


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow, really nice growth. I meant to try to talk to you on Monday night to see how things were going with this tank, but I had to leave right after Tom's talk. Looks like you got it all well in hand.

I see you got some ferts from Ming too. Everything should be easier now that you can just dose dry.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Lisa - yah not so sure of a good move, handling well but they have sure come back. 

Gary - Yah before I knew it you were gone. Good to see you though. lol I think you simplified it pretty good for me. Now Because I am a hoarder I have pounds and pounds of ferts lol. Hey I may need a bigger tank lol. Yah I got him to grab me some micros, I am still dosing the same one that Lisa gave me months ago. So I think it is time to retire them and more onto dry. It is going to be way nicer. 

I have stopped dosing for the past few days though. My nitrates are crazy high, I am working on getting them down. 

And if I could stop buying new plants then I would have some more room. But I guess it is all about learning what I like and don't and what works in my tank. 

Lisa and Gary the two that got me going. Look what you have made, a PLANT CRAZY, FERTZ COLLECTING MANIAC.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

OCD, you're tank looks awesome....does the fertz really work???haha


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

O.C.D Fishies said:


> I have stopped dosing for the past few days though. My nitrates are crazy high, I am working on getting them down.


Are you dosing a weekly water change? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you haven't been, and you're dosing EI style, you should.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Yah I do 50% every week. When we finally bought a test kit The ammonia was at 0 nitrites at 0 but it seemed like my nitrates were at 180 ppm. So I did another water change. Cleaned out most the filter, did another 50% water change yesterday (4 days later) and haven't dosed in 4 days. My nitrates are still at around 40 ppm. So I am just trying to get them down to a reasonable amount. I don't know what is going on.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

If you hadn't cleaned your filter in a while or vacuumed the substrate, maybe there was decaying detritus? Regardless, it looks like your nitrates are coming down to a reasonable level anyway. If you measure your nitrates before every water change you can then tell how fast your buildup rate is. Doing a 50% water should of course decrease the nitrate by 50% so you won't need to measure afterwards.


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

looks great candy!good job.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok so while sitting here one day I decided that the planted would look so much nicer if i trimmed it. I wil do this and that and it will look great. Why not CRS Fans looked so much nicer all trimmed back. So with Lisa's encouraging words "Prune hard, I will bring 2 buckets" I went at her. So without further adu My horrible hack job. 
Before the scissors looking amazing 








The 3 foot long sunset hygro from my 18inch tall tank.








And Finally my poor baby


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think it looks great, Candy. I personally don't like the jungle look and have started trimming my plants severely every other week. Once it grows a bit it'll look great. Don't mistake lots of growth with a good scape. Providing a balanced look is better. And with a trimmed tank, you'll have better flow and better nutrient dispersion, which will just lead to better growth and fewer algae problems.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks Gary, I noticed to that lots of the plants are not doing to well they all had about 6 or more inches on the bottom with no leaves on them, and they seem ugly looking on the top cause they had to grow side ways. I haven't dosed for 2 weeks to but now I am back on it, hopefully they will fill in in the next 2 weeks before my mom comes. There was no light getting done to the bottom either. I took out all the sunset hygro and bonsai in the back and soon i want to take out the stems in the front as well. Not sure what to do there though as all my plecos knock the small plants out. So we will see.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

wow. candice. the plants in your tank looked like they were going to grow right out of the tank! good job on the planted tank. looks like the an amazon jungle . i need to speed up the plant growth in my tank.

nice job on the pruning also ;P

love the pictures of your tank.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks Jobber All thanks to your ferts run lol. I would not wish to speed up the growth though it becomes a pain. Some of them were growing right out, which is kinda cool but i don't want my fish to commit suicide lol. The plants were not looking good at all in the tank though. from no light on the bottom and no room to grow up. You better post some more pics of your tank and it will get there. 

Glad you like the pics I will update once it fills in better.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

I wonder if anyone has had plants flowering out of their tanks. would that be one of your goals in the near future...to have plants flower out of the tank?

my tank focus is on the lil fries. but yes, i do need to put some pics of the tank one of these days. 

it's not my ferts. it's about the tank owner making a good fert selection ;P....CSM+B


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

It's fairly easy to get plants to flower out of the tank, depending on the plant. I've not been able to get my Anubias to flower without CO2, but others have. My Anubias flower regularly out of the water if I grow them near the top of the tank.

And you're right Candy, if you let it get to jungle-like, the plants are going to suffer on the bottom, and hence my ruthlessness in pruning.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Candy...are the plants growing out like a jungle yet again???


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Not quite yet but they are getting some nicer growth on the tops and more reds are coming through. Still have till next Thursday when my mom gets here Keep on growing lol.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

make sure there's picks up again! love looking at your tanks pics. did you find out which of fish spawned?


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey Ming Pic's for you, last ones of this tank before I tear it down.

























Ok so here is the new to me tank, still a 33 gallon (I like living here so lol)
This and the substrait are the only clues you will get. 
I am going to be using ADA 1 & 2 for the new tank. I am also going to be pulling out most the fast growing big leaved plants, to much work. (Gary shhhhhh about what you know lol)
I am hoping to get it going within the next month, going to be a long process though and not so sure my landlord will like me having 3 big tanks going (small to you monster tank guys but big to them) So here is the new tank. I love the two side pieces of glass, they give me some strange comfort knowing that they are there.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Looking good. And nice sig!


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

About freakin' time that you're finally going to set-up the ADA substrate tank . I am looking forward to seeing the tiger barb-less planted tank ! Remember I'm only 1-1/2 blocks away.

Best regards,

Stuart


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

So guys sorry to say but this is the last of my tanks I am going to tear down. 
A very nice fellow BCA member is coming tomorrow to take all my fish and the tank will be shut down by next week. I am extremely sad to see my fish go (maybe I could have visitation rights) but I feel it is for the better. 
I am going to be keeping most my fish things in the hopes of one day setting up again but I can't see that happening in the near future. 
Thank you all for your help though in making this tank great, you guys are awesome. 
Ming I will post one last pic of the tank tomorrow, bear in mind I have stopped all dosing and neglected the plants. 
It was a great experience.

Ah Gary does that mean I am no longer allowed in your group?? lol You will never get my number Claud's.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

O.C.D Fishies said:


> Ah Gary does that mean I am no longer allowed in your group??


You're a lifer, Candy. So if you never come back, that number will be retired.


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## O.C.D Fishies (Apr 21, 2010)

Ah Gary you make me feel so special. Almost makes me wanna get abother lol. 

So the fish are gone as of tuesday and now the tank is empty. I forgot to get pics before. They have gone to an awesome home though. I am going to be taking down the tank this weekend. 

Seems so different without all my fishies there, going to be lonly.


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

U r special my friend


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