# new friends



## rickwaines

Thanks Rick for the beautiful fish

They are at home eating and looking very handsome.


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## Claudia

Rick is not from Canadian Aquatics, Rick is from Canadian Aqua Farm Discus Hatchery  Maybe a mod can move this to the right place


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## Diztrbd1

those are some beauties Rick! Need a full tank shot...I see some nice wood in there.


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## rickwaines

ahhh yes
the ol canadian aqua farm canadian aquatics switcheroooo. Yes please mod. move away.


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## phyeung

rickwaines said:


> View attachment 13476


These are beautiful fishes. Are they blue snakeskin?


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm

rickwaines said:


> Thanks Rick for the beautiful fish
> 
> They are at home eating and looking very handsome.
> 
> View attachment 13476


Awesome, glad to hear they are eating within the first few hours in their new home. They will get even more comfortable with each passing day.



Diztrbd1 said:


> those are some beauties Rick! Need a full tank shot...I see some nice wood in there.


Agreed. I have seen a full tank shot and it is very beautifully laid out.


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## rickwaines

here are some pics


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## rickwaines

phyeung said:


> These are beautiful fishes. Are they blue snakeskin?


Yes they are.


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## Fish rookie

Very tastefully scaped. I really love what you have done!
What kind of stand is that?


rickwaines said:


> here are some pics
> 
> View attachment 13497
> 
> View attachment 13498


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## rickwaines

Fish rookie said:


> Very tastefully scaped. I really love what you have done!
> What kind of stand is that?


A stand I had my ever so talented father slap together.


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## tony1928

Ok gotta say I love the scape that you've done. Very very nice. Great job.


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## Fish rookie

rickwaines said:


> A stand I had my ever so talented father slap together.


Wow, great job. The modern ADA style is contrasted beautifully with the natural wood grains. One of the best discus scape I have seen here on the forum. Thanks for sharing.


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## rickwaines

thanks Tony
This tank has been fighting me from the start. Both with cycling issues and getting the scape right. I am now getting closer.

I appreciate the feedback. Not done yet though.


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## discuspaul

Superb looking discus, Rick, and you've done a really fine job with the wood set-up in your tank - I'd like to see a full tank shot.
Congrats !


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## rickwaines

discuspaul said:


> Superb looking discus, Rick, and you've done a really fine job with the wood set-up in your tank - I'd like to see a full tank shot.
> Congrats !


Hey Paul
thanks so much
I did post a full tank shot. Should be back on the first page I think. a few posts in.


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## rickwaines

rickwaines said:


> Hey Paul
> thanks so much
> I did post a full tank shot. Should be back on the first page I think. a few posts in.


ohhh and yes, the discus are gorgeous. Can't take any credit for that of course. Rick at CAF can though.


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## tony1928

rickwaines said:


> thanks Tony
> This tank has been fighting me from the start. Both with cycling issues and getting the scape right. I am now getting closer.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback. Not done yet though.


The kudos are well deserved. That's the look I wanted to do in my cube but since I incorporated plecos I had to change directions. I love that ADG look.


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## discuspaul

Just beautiful, Rick !
You've really learned how to do it - real fast !
You'll only get better at it, I'm sure.
And yes, you can't beat Rick's discus !


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## rickwaines

tony1928 said:


> The kudos are well deserved. That's the look I wanted to do in my cube but since I incorporated plecos I had to change directions. I love that ADG look.


dern loricariidai!


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## rickwaines

all right 
Now that I have gotten your attention. Any thoughts on trace ammounts of ammonia? I have been finding that with the every other day 80% h20 water change accompanied with the low pH of 6 that I don't seem to have a great deal of nitrifying bacteria. I know they are less active in these low pH environments and so I occasionally get a wee bump in the ammonia. still much less than .25. The test kit just shows I faint tinge of change from zero. I read a chart that takes total ammonia and adjusts it for pH and temp. If the chart is correct then my free ammonia, the dangerous stuff was around .01. This shouldnt be a problem with the Discus should it?


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## rickwaines

all right 
Now that I have gotten your attention. Any thoughts on trace ammounts of ammonia? I have been finding that with the every other day 80% h20 water change accompanied with the low pH of 6 that I don't seem to have a great deal of nitrifying bacteria. I know they are less active in these low pH environments and so I occasionally get a wee bump in the ammonia. still much less than .25. The test kit just shows I faint tinge of change from zero. I read a chart that takes total ammonia and adjusts it for pH and temp. If the chart is correct then my free ammonia, the dangerous stuff was around .01. This shouldnt be a problem with the Discus should it?


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## kacairns

You're running a filter on the tank correct? If you're able, add some purigen it helps eliminate some of the stuff in the water that converts into ammonia and may eliminate that fluctuation you're seeing


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## rickwaines

kacairns said:


> You're running a filter on the tank correct? If you're able, add some purigen it helps eliminate some of the stuff in the water that converts into ammonia and may eliminate that fluctuation you're seeing


Ya, I had been running some purigen and got a little tired of the bleach. Perhaps I should try it again.


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## Fish rookie

I though at this low ph ammonia is not harmful, isnt' it?


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## bonsai dave

What a beautiful set up . The discus are gorgeous . Good job.


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## rickwaines

Fish rookie said:


> I though at this low ph ammonia is not harmful, isnt' it?


That has been my understanding as well. But, you know Discus with their reputation for sensitive natures. I'm just micro managing.


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## Fish rookie

How are you beautiful discus now...any update, please?


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## rickwaines

Fish rookie said:


> How are you beautiful discus now...any update, please?


Well, I have finally gotten all the fish and the params settled down. I have been trying to keep additives to a minimum and at the same time have an environment that I can leave a couple of days without water changes. My usual routine is every other day WC of about80% but with our water being as unbuffered and as low a pH as it is and me liking wood in the tank as much as I do and having fish that are sensitive to params like gH kH nitrate and trites as it is I have been finding it a challenge to get all things stable. Finally went back to old faithfull which is a bit of crushed coral and Purigen and things seem to be stabilizing. Here is a pic


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## Fish rookie

O, that is great. Beautiful set up.
Great to know everything is fine now.
Wish you and your fish a wonderful New Year.


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## 2wheelsx2

Just mix up your own GH booster. It'll be more stable than the crushed coral. Then add a bit each water change. $20 worth of product will last you years. I do 3x80% wc per week in my 100 gallon square tank also and I use Equilibrium. But when it runs out I'll be just using GH booster. Here's a thread on how to "roll your own". RexGrigg.com • View topic - GH Booster vs Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salts

Epsom salts at the drugstore, CaCl at Canadian Tire (Dri-Z-Air crystals), and Potassium Sulphate at hydroponics stores.

As for the ammonia, it's definitely the low pH. When I started the square tank I had the same problem. It took months to register zero for me. I did every day wc for a month in the beginning, but I tend to do that in all my tanks since I usually plant them and that's my method for keeping the algae at bay. It's just cheap insurance for me.


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## rickwaines

2wheelsx2 said:


> Just mix up your own GH booster. It'll be more stable than the crushed coral. Then add a bit each water change. $20 worth of product will last you years. I do 3x80% wc per week in my 100 gallon square tank also and I use Equilibrium. But when it runs out I'll be just using GH booster. Here's a thread on how to "roll your own". RexGrigg.com • View topic - GH Booster vs Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salts
> 
> Epsom salts at the drugstore, CaCl at Canadian Tire (Dri-Z-Air crystals), and Potassium Sulphate at hydroponics stores.
> 
> As for the ammonia, it's definitely the low pH. When I started the square tank I had the same problem. It took months to register zero for me. I did every day wc for a month in the beginning, but I tend to do that in all my tanks since I usually plant them and that's my method for keeping the algae at bay. It's just cheap insurance for me.


Hmmm good idea for the GH booster. I added the coral to affect the kh though. Do you think it will affect the gH too? I am undecided about adjusting the gh in this particular set up. The WC rams come from water that has negligible gH. as for the discus. Rick at Canadian aqua farm doesn't adjust his gH. I am totally on board, in general, with the GH argument made by many here on the forum and in other tanks I adhere to it. I use equilibrium in the tank at St pauls. But my question, which I am trying to answer with this tank at home is this: If the species come from waters with negligible gH and I am doing regular water changes where the few minerals our water does have are being replaced every other day, is it necessary at all to affect the gH. The real question becomes if I go away for a month and have to knock back the water changes to once a week do I then add gH.

All the fish seem much happier now that the params are settling down. The rams in particular. And ya, with a pH as low as it is 6.3. I hope to settle it down finally around 6.5, the ammonia is going to take some time. Thankfully the trace amounts of nh3 and nh4 at this pH will not pose a problem from the reading I have been doing.

Rick


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## 2wheelsx2

rickwaines said:


> Hmmm good idea for the GH booster. I added the coral to affect the kh though. Do you think it will affect the gH too? I am undecided about adjusting the gh in this particular set up. The WC rams come from water that has negligible gH. as for the discus. Rick at Canadian aqua farm doesn't adjust his gH. I am totally on board, in general, with the GH argument made by many here on the forum and in other tanks I adhere to it. I use equilibrium in the tank at St pauls. But my question, which I am trying to answer with this tank at home is this: If the species come from waters with negligible gH and I am doing regular water changes where the few minerals our water does have are being replaced every other day, is it necessary at all to affect the gH. The real question becomes if I go away for a month and have to knock back the water changes to once a week do I then add gH.
> 
> All the fish seem much happier now that the params are settling down. The rams in particular. And ya, with a pH as low as it is 6.3. I hope to settle it down finally around 6.5, the ammonia is going to take some time. Thankfully the trace amounts of nh3 and nh4 at this pH will not pose a problem from the reading I have been doing.
> 
> Rick


The coral will have negligible effect on the GH unless you're injecting CO2 and you're using aragonite and not calcite.

As for the Rams, they are no different than wild caught Discus, and I have both in my cube. I add enough Epsom salts and Equilibrium in there to bring the TDS to about 75 ppm. That's just over 4 dGH. Still negligible hardness. Our water doesn't have negligible hardness, but zero hardness. I read about 12 ppm coming out of the tap which is just over 0.5. That's pretty much rainwater.

I've had discussions with Rick about his method. He also doesn't use filtration (bio/chem or mechanical). He can do that because he is doing enough transport of the wastes to not really establish a bio filter. If you're doing that, than yes, I would say adding buffers is throwing money in the toilet. And the reason for buffers is the scenario you suggested. You're away for 2 weeks and have someone feed your fish. Will they change the water too? If not, you stand a real possibility of a pH crash. If you add GH then you'll be shocking your fish at that time, which is the worst time to do it, right before you go away.

Anyway, the decision is yours to make. I know people who choose both sides of the method. All I know is every single species in my buffered tank is breeding, so it must be close enough to the natural habitats of the fish for them to want to procreate. One thing you must remember is that negligible hardness is not 0. Anything under 4 degrees or about 70 ppm is still soft water. So it's not like you have to buffer to 180 ppm TDS. You just need 40 ppm which a tiny bit of GH booster will do. That would certainly help your plants.


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## discuspaul

Very well said, Gary - great commentary - and quite accurate too, imo.


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## rickwaines

I didn't think that the coral would affect the gH much, if at all. And my tds is around 60 currently. I have started adding a teeny bit of Gh. I think it best to have a bit of kH and Gh for all the above reasons. I sure appreciate all the input. This particular tank is teaching me a lot.

Rick


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## 2wheelsx2

Are you reading that after a water change? You also have to remember that organics also contribute to TDS (as a matter of fact, any substance that conducts current in the water) so if you're only using a TDS meter, it's best to do it after a big water change when the waste products are low. I usually will use my TDS meter after a water change to check and then once every few months I test the GH in between water changes with my API kit or Nutrafin kits.

It is best to have a bit of KH but you're doing that with the coral. I add KH by adding Plaster of Paris also, in the tanks with shrimps in particular, but I do it in my CO2 injected tanks particularly.


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## Fish rookie

Another thing about frequent water change is that you need to keep your water parameters steady with each and every water change otherwise you run the risk of shocking your fish. If you add too many things into your water you may end up getting a bit too much of one thing or another or forgetting something sometimes, and end up with water that has a different PH or hardness; while if you just add dechlorator and tap water at the same temperature you will find it easier to control the consistency of your water parameters.
Rick actually uses mechanically filtration. He has sponge filters in his tanks now. He told me he washes the sponge in his washer to remove all the trapped dirt so his sponge is meant for mechanically filtration, not biologically filtration. Some discus breeders/keerps, such as April, use sponge filters for biologically filtration as well.
If your Ph is not steady, especially if it gets so low from time to time, I think you should add some buffer to keeping it steady. 
It is not necessarily flushing water down the toliet because you fish still get to enjoy the benefits of have much needed mineral in the water if they are indeed in need of more mineral, and a PH buffer can prevent a PH crush. It is flushing water down the toliet if they do not need them. You can think of them as food. 
The challenge is to keep things steady so you should make sure you use the right amount of buffer for the amount of water you change and change that amount of water every time, if you decide to add buffer.
I personally dont add anything but dechlorator, but I think you need to test your water, and judge this based on your situation.
Good luck.


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## rickwaines

So
I won the jackpot. I was hoping I got a male and a female and, well I did. EGGS. fish food I suppose but perhaps now I will convert the tank to Discus only. I will wait to seem if any of the eggs were fertilized before making too many drastic plans. Thought you should know.


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## rickwaines

The new mom.


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## 2wheelsx2

Did you witness the spawning? If so you can tell if they were fertilized or not as the female lays eggs and the male does his fertilization run. I'm not familiar with domestic discus eggs but mine are always really red when they are fertilized. I don't want to dash your hopes, but there is a chance they are both female. But you'll know in a day or so as the unfertilized ones will be clouded and white.

Good job though, as least you know you have a laying female.


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## rickwaines

2wheelsx2 said:


> Did you witness the spawning? If so you can tell if they were fertilized or not as the female lays eggs and the male does his fertilization run. I'm not familiar with domestic discus eggs but mine are always really red when they are fertilized. I don't want to dash your hopes, but there is a chance they are both female. But you'll know in a day or so as the unfertilized ones will be clouded and white.
> 
> Good job though, as least you know you have a laying female.


I wondered if they were both females but they both seem very involved in the "care" so I thought they must have both played their parts. I didn't see the spawn. No hopes dashed. Just exciting to see any eggs at all.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, it's always cool to see that the fish are happy enough to spawn. I bet you pretty soon everything in that tank spawns. Before my discus spawned, most of my plecos had (L333, L134, BNP's) along with the Sterbai cories and most of the tetras.


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## rickwaines

*the beautes.*

some pics of the lovelies. thank you Charles and Rick


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## gklaw

Wow, that is an amazing amount of light for an unplanted tank. Gorgeous discus.


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## bonsai dave

Gorgeous set up Rick. Good Job.


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## rickwaines

gklaw said:


> Wow, that is an amazing amount of light for an unplanted tank. Gorgeous discus.


I originally baught this fixture cause I was going to go planted. But, changed course, of course, and here we are with a whole lotta light. It actually looks a little less glaring in person. I would like to do a more subtle light with it at some point but I am in a bit too far with this light investment wise. Apparently they are working of a dimmer for it. I am hoping when it is available I will be able to tune it down a bit.


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## rickwaines

bonsai dave said:


> Gorgeous set up Rick. Good Job.


Thanks Dave, It's starting to come together. I got a nice school of gold tetra's from charles that have really added a nice bit of action to the tank. Plus some Corydora Pulchar which are super beautiful.


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## gklaw

rickwaines said:


> Apparently they are working of a dimmer for it. I am hoping when it is available I will be able to tune it down a bit.


Haha. I have three of those, except that I there full power. By the time Vertex comes up with a dimmer, it will be priced more than some cheaper brad complete fixture. The Illuminux does look very elegant with that rimless. 
You have the substrate and the light, why not throw some plants in there. I love planted discus tanks - in fact just turning my 72g planted into discus.


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## 2wheelsx2

Is the a Vertex? If so, they already have the dimming modules out.


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## rickwaines

2wheelsx2 said:


> Is the a Vertex? If so, they already have the dimming modules out.


Yeah it is. It is an illumilux. Really? J and L tells me they haven't come out with it yet. Is it brand new? Hot off the press? I hope so. more deets please!!!


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## bonsai dave

rickwaines said:


> Thanks Dave, It's starting to come together. I got a nice school of gold tetra's from charles that have really added a nice bit of action to the tank. Plus some Corydora Pulchar which are super beautiful.


Good edition . I love the gold tetras. I add 30 to my wife's tank but now I'm down to about 15 thanks to my wild betta's. The corydora pulchar they are neat fish.


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## rickwaines

gklaw said:


> Haha. I have three of those, except that I there full power. By the time Vertex comes up with a dimmer, it will be priced more than some cheaper brad complete fixture. The Illuminux does look very elegant with that rimless.
> You have the substrate and the light, why not throw some plants in there. I love planted discus tanks - in fact just turning my 72g planted into discus.


I am thinking of a fast growing surface plant to soak up some nitrates. I was thinking about some hyacinth. I have been enjoying the bare scape right now. realy shows off the fish. FOWP hahah


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## 2wheelsx2

rickwaines said:


> Yeah it is. It is an illumilux. Really? J and L tells me they haven't come out with it yet. Is it brand new? Hot off the press? I hope so. more deets please!!!


Hmmm...I keep reading that the dimming module is optional, but I haven't been able to find anyone selling them yet. Maybe this is the equivalent of software vaporware....sorry to get you all excited. I'm excited as the dimming module just came out for my Panorama FW LED modules so I can do the sunrise/sunset thing.


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## mdwflyer

That sure is beautiful, very nicely done!


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## Diztrbd1

Just got to see this setup in person and wow! wow! WOW! Those have got to be some of the most beautiful Discus I have seen yet!! Now I want some! Thanks Rick! And thanks other Rick for being just as much responsible lol 
Beautiful setup as well, absolutely love the layout!


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## rickwaines

Diztrbd1 said:


> Just got to see this setup in person and wow! wow! WOW! Those have got to be some of the most beautiful Discus I have seen yet!! Now I want some! Thanks Rick! And thanks other Rick for being just as much responsible lol
> Beautiful setup as well, absolutely love the layout!


awwww shucks John. Glad you dig. Indeed, the other Rick and his discii are great! So glad you like the scape as well. It is coming along.


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## rickwaines

ok, so i need your help. My hard scape is fantastic but, I can't help it. I need some green. I was temporarily housing some plants in the tank the other day waiting for them to be picked up and man did the addition of some green really pull the blues and reds out of the fish. However, I am not crazy, due to stocking levels and the sensitivity the rams in particular seem to have to water quality, to do Co2 and ei. I also love my fine black substrate for my Pulchar school and am not crazy about the plant substrates. So, what plant?
I have a vertex aquastik 40 w that is providing a great deal of light. And given the efficiency of my filter and the bioload I have nitrate to spare.

So, what plant likes light and nitrates and doesn't need a great deal of Co2 or additional fertilization?


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## 2wheelsx2

All plants like nitrates and light and CO2.  The ferts are being taken care of by the fishload. What you can do is attach some Anubias in the hardscape where there is a bit of shade. You're really looking for slower growing plants which have lower nutrient uptake. So Crypts, Anubias, a bit of Java Fern or Bolbitis, those kind of things. I would do Vals or stem plants. Maybe even a sword plant but I have found them to do poorly in my cube with the low nutrient low. Your biggest problem is the amount of light. Do you have any BBA problems right now? If not, then maybe the light isn't excess. Everything else can be managed. You can agitate the surface to maximize the use of atmospheric CO2 which is what I do in my cube. If the plants are in a bit of shade, you'll have less chance of algae.


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## rickwaines

2wheelsx2 said:


> All plants like nitrates and light and CO2.  The ferts are being taken care of by the fishload. What you can do is attach some Anubias in the hardscape where there is a bit of shade. You're really looking for slower growing plants which have lower nutrient uptake. So Crypts, Anubias, a bit of Java Fern or Bolbitis, those kind of things. I would do Vals or stem plants. Maybe even a sword plant but I have found them to do poorly in my cube with the low nutrient low. Your biggest problem is the amount of light. Do you have any BBA problems right now? If not, then maybe the light isn't excess. Everything else can be managed. You can agitate the surface to maximize the use of atmospheric CO2 which is what I do in my cube. If the plants are in a bit of shade, you'll have less chance of algae.


Thanks a million!

So you aren't adding Co2 presently? Aside from the surface agitation which is a very interesting work around I might add. I do have some BBA, and some redish algae. I was imagining that once I got a plant or two in there that would block some of the light that I might have less of that. I do love the vals so perhaps I will bring one of them home from the Hospital.


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## 2wheelsx2

I dose a bit of Metricide, but probably just enough to keep the algae at bay. One of the reasons that my Ludwigia repens is so red is because of the low nitrates. 

I don't think the plants will help with algae much. What will likely happen is that the plants will get algae on them. If you get it on the Vals, you can just prune the leaves off.


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## rickwaines

a rescape and some eggs.


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## jobber

Very nice. Beautiful colours on the fish. Hoping the pair can raise the little ones up.


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## rickwaines

jobber said:


> Very nice. Beautiful colours on the fish. Hoping the pair can raise the little ones up.


Not in that tank I suppose. And I have yet to get a batch that have been fertilized. I think I have a pair though due to their behaviour when laying. I think the male perhaps hasn't yet matured. But if I start getting fertilized eggs perhaps I will move them.


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## rickwaines

Discus fry!


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## 2wheelsx2

Nice, so you have a proven pair.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm

rickwaines said:


> Discus fry!


Sweet! Congratulations!


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## Diztrbd1

thats great to hear Rick! If they make it and you decide to sell some I will definitely be interested in those beauties! You probably already know that lol 
Love the rescape too!


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## rickwaines

Canadian_Aqua_Farm said:


> Sweet! Congratulations!


you sure know how to pick em. What are the chances... wait, the chances are... never took statistics.


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## rickwaines

Diztrbd1 said:


> thats great to hear Rick! If they make it and you decide to sell some I will definitely be interested in those beauties! You probably already know that lol
> Love the rescape too!


In this tank I have a suspicion they wont but now that I have a pair I might consider setting them up in their own digs. We'll see.


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