# GW and Willow branches?



## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

I have a 29 gallon (well-cycled) that I got busy and did a lot of planting (massive substrate disturbance) and the next day saw cloudy water which a few days later is now green. Classic recipe, I understand. 

I don't want to try the blackout method as I don't want to risk losing any plants (some might be more sensitive)

I don't have a UV sterilizer for it (no $ right now)

I don't have a diatom filter and have no idea where to get Daphnia around here.

I was reading some old posts on another forum about plopping some willow branches into the tank, waiting for them to root and hey - presto, green water gone.

Anyone try this? I believe the OP on that forum was from Vancouver...

I am wondering if this method works for only certain types of GW blooms. Some people wrote in to say it didn't work at all, others raved about their success. I have access to plenty of willow and right now it's budding. Perfect for rooting. Willows are absolutely the best at rooting out! I understand you should continue with the photoperiod, continue with dosing ferts and just carry on as normal. There was lots of talk about why it might work (some folks even dropped ASA tablets into their tanks. No one knew. 

I'm going to give it a try today. Unless anyone can think of any reason to advise me against it?

The livestock is 2 espei rasboras, 3 oto's, 15 amano's and lots of immature (still small) plants. It's a bare bottom technically but I have the plants planted in pond pots with some 2 year old ADA Malaya from my last build. It has been outside frozen but is now thawed. I run DIY co2 with a sketchy flow rate. AC50 filter. t5HO lighting. Dose SeaChem ferts 2x week, 30% W/C once a week. The tank parameters have been rock steady for a few months and are good right now, too. I could check amonia later. The only recent change has been the planting session a few days ago. The tank is in the basement, no sunlight at all.

Thanks!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

You can do that, or just do massive water changes every day and let your dense planting take care of it. When I say massive, I mean 90% type. Do that for 3 or 4 days straight and it should go away if your tank is densely planted enough. I have done it this way, used a UV, or did the blackout. The simplest is the blackout as you don't have to do anything, of course. The main thing is to not add any more nutrients, ie, don't feed the fish and don't dose ferts unless it's Glute/Excel.


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## nao (Jan 23, 2011)

can i put any kind of live willow branches in my tank, i have a cork screw willow which died, can i put branch's in - or do i need to remove bark -its dead wood????


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

The point of putting willow branches into a tank with GW is so the willow soaks up all the nutrients in the tank thus starving the algae. Dead willow will not clean up GW.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Got a nice collection of green/yellow willow branches. Not the droopy hanging-down part but the new growth from near a cut limb on the trunk. Did a massive (gotta be about 90%) w/c today. Squeezed out the sponge, rinsed the carbon, rinsed the filter. Water no longer green but still cloudy. Bet it will be green tomorrow! Will repeat the w/c tomorrow. (all that water! I'm not on city water -- must pump). Just plopped the willow in bucket of water to get the rooting started while I mess around with all these water changes. Will probably do a third w/c Friday.  Ugh, talk about labour intensive. If I had the money for a UV, I'd get one! 

What do the plants think of all this murky water? Less light affect them?


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Did 2nd massive w/c today. Water no longer green but still cloudy. After the change, stirred up and still cloudy. No willow branches yet. They are doing their own thing in a bucket of dirty fish water.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Murky water = less light, some plants may not be too happy. I once had an outbreak of GW that I couldn't get rid of with regardless of water changes. The tank was very green for about 4 weeks. After the UV cleaned it up the plants were a bit smaller - probably from being light starved.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Ack, poor you! I'm hoping my single stub of pogostemon helferi survives this. Half of it died due to transplant shock (so I assume). I'm hoping I don't have to get a UV. I would like to see if this willow branch thing actually works.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Things are looking bleak for this tank's water. Two days of 90% water changes and it's murky as before but not green. Cloudy now. How does this algae/bacteria do this?! That is FAST! I am going to try doing the W/C just before the lights come on tomorrow so the plants have the cleaner water at the start of the day. Getting close to sticking the willows in. Doing massive water changes like this is exhausting and uses waaaaaay too much water. I R/O a huge tub each day. Must not be good for my RO unit. One of the plants is looking unhappy now. Uh-Oh.


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## Plant (Mar 9, 2014)

Hi Greenfin,
I used the willow branches before. It will take long long time until the willows will start doing the job. Keep in mind that the willow branches will start developing leaves and the leaves will need light.
If you don't want to invest in UV or diatom filter I will suggest the blackout as well, I used before and none of the plants I had at that time suffer. 

I'm just curios when you did the planting (disturbed the substrate) did you cleaned the filter or change any media in the filter as well? 
How much light do you have and how many hours/day?


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

The filter is an AC50. After the planting, just left everything going. The water was murky because the substrate was used and a bit mushy. When I first built with that substrate I had a cloudy water issue that only ended with a UV. This is the same substrate. It was stored (froze) outside. I planted in pots in a bare bottom tank. I should have done a huge water change right after I finished planting. Too late at night.
The lights aren't high powered and are on 12 hours. I have high-light requiring plants in there. The plants are still small. THe willows are in a bucket right now. I may add them tomorrow. If I had the money I'd get a UV and be done with it.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think Charles has a 9 w for $50, if that's inside your budget.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Uh, nope, not right now. Very broke. I did look at it though.

So I did another w/c yesterday morning. Took all the plants out (benefit of being potted) and had the water down to the last siphonable amount. Poor fish! Cleaned the filter again, fresh carbon, scrubbed filter with toothbrush (hope I don't cause a cycle-crash). Added my ferts. Put the plants back in, filled very very slowly and, dang, if that water wasn't just as cloudy at the end of the day. How aggravating! So I put the willows in. Some leaf buds were starting on the branches already. Now the branches have been in for just over 24 hours and by gum if that water isn't about 50% clearer than yesterday. Huh! The branches have hundreds of root buds forming. Bet the branches can't believe their luck! This is most encouraging!


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Update

In case anyone is wondering how this is going for me...it isn't!

The water did get clearer for a few days but then clouded right back up and went green again about a week ago. I was doing large w/c's and going through way too many ferts. I pulled the very nicely sprouted willows out. My second "plant" tank went green about a week ago too. With these tanks there will be frequent substrate disturbances as I pull plants in and out. I don't think the willows would work for me. Yesterday I installed a UV. In just over 12 hours the water in the one tank is 50% clearer. So much for my experiment. I didn't want to lose any plants to lack of light.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

12 hrs of light is too much. Start at 8 and work up, but 8 to 10hrs is all you need. Blackouts are silly IMO. Its not too often the sun disappears for a week in nature. Unless you live in Alaska. LOL. Oh wait hardly anything grows in Alaska  I cant see how that helps plants at all. You need to find the root cause of the green. Is the tank getting light from a window? When you clean your filter what are you doing with the bio media? Is there any biomedia in the filter at all?


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Might also be something you brought in from outside. Did you put things in both tanks from out side or just the one?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think she meant she's had the UV on for 12 hours.

For green water,nothing fixes it faster than a UV since it kills the waterborne algae as it passes through the water column. Blackouts work on the principle that the multicellular, rooted plants have other sources of nutrients to draw on when there is no light for photosynthesis, while unicellular simple plants like waterborne algae will no longer have a source to draw food from. Everything has its place. In this case, since the OP is worried about the plants, and has been able to get a UV sterilizer the point is moot.

Greenfin, the thing to do to minimize these problems, especially during startup, is to do a wc every time you disturb the substrate. Do your planting or other disturbance, and then do a large wc to reduce the nutrients in the water column. The problem will solve itself quickly now that you have a UV, but you still need to fix the root cause which appears to be light/excess nutrients and initial ADA leaching of nutrients into the water column.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Yes thanks you two.

The plants are in my old ADA substrate from my previous build. I had major cloudy water issues with the tank when I first set it up a few years ago. The cloudiness started about 3 weeks after I set up the tank. I tried days of massive water changes and it only cleared with a UV which ran constantly until it crapped out about a month before I tore the tank down. That substrate was only two years old and I stored it outside (froze) all winter until I set up my "plant" tanks. Each time I move a pot around huge clouds of sediment swirl and pumping in the clean water from a w/c disturbs sediment too. Maybe it was a weird batch of substrate. I think you've got a good tip there, 2wheelsx2 with doing my w/c right after I "garden". Even through today the water is getting clearer. 

I just thought this thread could help someone contemplating using willow branches to clear their water. I gave it as much background as I could because I suspect the willow branches are successful only under some conditions. I disturb my tank too much on a regular basis. Your responses should help others too!

And yes, the lights are not on for 12 hours! Just 10.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

They used to be on for 12...too much!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Unfortunately, you're experiencing what some have complained about with respect to ADA. After a year or two, it breaks down into a muddy mess sometimes. I believe it might have been the ADA I though and all the new stuff is type II I think?


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Okay, that makes sense. It's not held it's granular form. It is powdery (when dry). Every time I move a pot the "dust" swirls out of the perforation holes in the pot. I hope as the plant's root system grows, this will become less. I now have one slightly cloudy tank and one still very green tank. Will swap the UV in a few days. I feel bad I didn't have the willow branches work out for me. At least I have some little trees I can't plant on our property!


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