# air circulation for 180 gallons



## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

so i have an rena xp4 is that enough air for one fish in an 180 gallon .
it is just current flow thats it


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

well as long as the water is moving up top, it should be plenty, if you really are worried, get the water to ripple without really breaking the surface, as there wont be much using up the dissolved o2. I find only tall tanks may have an issue with just minor surface agitation due to the much smaller surface area to water volume ratio


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

is more bubbles better for fish health and a planted tank


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

What you need is more filtration, an xp4 is only 450 gph which is only giving you 2.5 turnover per hour of your overall water volume, you want to have more like 10x turnover. I would strongly recommend adding more filters either a couple more xp4's or a couple AC 110/500's. Also maybe a couple of powerheads with prefilters on them. Right now with your fish being little might not be as important as when he gets bigger. As we both know puffers are very messy eaters. The cheapest route for raising your turnover would be the AC's for sure. On my 135 I run an XP3(300gph) and 2 AC 110's(1000gph)


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

taureandragon76 said:


> What you need is more filtration, an xp4 is only 450 gph which is only giving you 2.5 turnover per hour of your overall water volume, you want to have more like 10x turnover. I would strongly recommend adding more filters either a couple more xp4's or a couple AC 110/500's. Also maybe a couple of powerheads with prefilters on them. Right now with your fish being little might not be as important as when he gets bigger. As we both know puffers are very messy eaters. The cheapest route for raising your turnover would be the AC's for sure. On my 135 I run an XP3(300gph) and 2 AC 110's(1000gph)


even in a full planted tank . what about air bubbles i hooked up a maxijet 1200 thats has an air valve. butt is this good for fish having more air in a planted 180


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

i think if you are just concerned about water circulation, the maxijet 1200 should be sufficient. You can even go to J&L and buy the mod for the maxijet that will bring it up to over 2000gph. However, i'm not sure there's enough biofiltration down the road.


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes the maxi would be good for circulation but your right, won't be enough for bio. Johnny, air bubbles is not what your after. I see none in my tank. Oxygen naturally occurs in water so as long as you got enough circulation you will have enough oxygen. Plus the plants themselves are good for oxygen.


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## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

I don't think a 180 gallon should need 3 xp4's if he only has like 1 fish. There isn't a lot of bioload in that tank. I say maybe an xp4 and a fluval u4 and one power head would be enough for that tank.

If you are going to go with cannister I think you should stay with cannister because you bought the cannister for a reason (to be quiet) adding ac110's is great, i've had 2 on my 55 gallon before but I would just stick with Cannister filtration.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

donjuan_corn said:


> I don't think a 180 gallon should need 3 xp4's if he only has like 1 fish. There isn't a lot of bioload in that tank. I say maybe an xp4 and a fluval u4 and one power head would be enough for that tank.
> 
> If you are going to go with cannister I think you should stay with cannister because you bought the cannister for a reason (to be quiet) adding ac110's is great, i've had 2 on my 55 gallon before but I would just stick with Cannister filtration.


not if that 1 fish is a MONSTER 

-------

for oxygen levels, I would either add an airstone AND/OR sponge filter AND/OR powerhead.


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## Fish Whisper (Apr 22, 2010)

taureandragon76 said:


> What you need is more filtration, an xp4 is only 450 gph which is only giving you 2.5 turnover per hour of your overall water volume, you want to have more like 10x turnover. I would strongly recommend adding more filters either a couple more xp4's or a couple AC 110/500's. Also maybe a couple of powerheads with prefilters on them. Right now with your fish being little might not be as important as when he gets bigger. As we both know puffers are very messy eaters. The cheapest route for raising your turnover would be the AC's for sure. On my 135 I run an XP3(300gph) and 2 AC 110's(1000gph)


10X turnover does that need to be filtered or just churned through a power head?

Either way a Bubbler won't do either, sponge filter would help for bioload but not flow, so you'd need that plus a power head...

I think another filter would help in your case, plus less cluter in your tank


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish Whisper said:


> 10X turnover does that need to be filtered or just churned through a power head?
> 
> Either way a Bubbler won't do either, sponge filter would help for bioload but not flow, so you'd need that plus a power head...
> 
> I think another filter would help in your case, plus less cluter in your tank


i have xp4 and maxijet 1200 hundred and thought this is fine.
oh and i was just asking if more air bubbles from the maxijet is better for fish . our it does not matter ?


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## big_bubba_B (Apr 25, 2010)

in my 170 i have a xp4,fx5,fluval 405 and a big air pump with an air disk stone


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

taureandragon76 said:


> What you need is more filtration, an xp4 is only 450 gph which is only giving you 2.5 turnover per hour of your overall water volume, you want to have more like 10x turnover. I would strongly recommend adding more filters either a couple more xp4's or a couple AC 110/500's. Also maybe a couple of powerheads with prefilters on them. Right now with your fish being little might not be as important as when he gets bigger. As we both know puffers are very messy eaters. The cheapest route for raising your turnover would be the AC's for sure. On my 135 I run an XP3(300gph) and 2 AC 110's(1000gph)


The Rena Filstar XP4 External Filter has the following specification- • Flow Rate - 450 gph • Suitable for Aquariums - 265 gal • Canister Volume - 3 gal • Water flow (with media and tubing) - 190 gph 

Quite the drop if you want to use tubing . 
Still though its rated for a 265 gallon tank ( about 80 % more than he needs ....according to the guys that make it. ) If he is maxed out for boi load in the 180 he should still have a cushion.
Unless that little guy eats a pound of food a day he should be okay....besides Im pretty sure hes gonna get another tank soon ( did you notice he has MTS now ) and turn that into a comunity planted tank ..LOL J/K

Johnny ..what kind of outlet do you have on the xp-4 ? ..between that and the power head you should be able to get more than enough circulation and water movement to get all the oxy. you need with out 1 air bubble .
Look at my tank ....one spray bar at one end and you can see every plant move and shimmy from top to bottom. Over 60 assorted fish and no one gasping for air .


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

donjuan_corn said:


> I don't think a 180 gallon should need 3 xp4's if he only has like 1 fish. There isn't a lot of bioload in that tank. I say maybe an xp4 and a fluval u4 and one power head would be enough for that tank.
> 
> If you are going to go with cannister I think you should stay with cannister because you bought the cannister for a reason (to be quiet) adding ac110's is great, i've had 2 on my 55 gallon before but I would just stick with Cannister filtration.


Obviously you have never had a big puffer before 

You need the heavy filtration with a big puffer they are pigs, very messy eaters. You should see the crap my filters suck up from mine.



Fish Whisper said:


> 10X turnover does that need to be filtered or just churned through a power head?
> 
> Either way a Bubbler won't do either, sponge filter would help for bioload but not flow, so you'd need that plus a power head...
> 
> I think another filter would help in your case, plus less cluter in your tank


Filtered. Again very very messy fish. Would not doubt if they are the messiest out there.

Johnny you don't need to add airstones or anything like that. Water movement will give you oxygenation. Also generally if you want to grow plants you don't want an airstone as they disrupt the water surface.


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

Aquaman said:


> The Rena Filstar XP4 External Filter has the following specification- • Flow Rate - 450 gph • Suitable for Aquariums - 265 gal • Canister Volume - 3 gal • Water flow (with media and tubing) - 190 gph
> 
> Quite the drop if you want to use tubing .
> Still though its rated for a 265 gallon tank ( about 80 % more than he needs ....according to the guys that make it. ) If he is maxed out for boi load in the 180 he should still have a cushion.
> ...


Problem is as I am sure your aware of, all companies over rate their filters.

When I feed my puffer a clam for instance or a whole large shrimp there is big clouds of crap coming from the frenzy. Never mind what comes outta his rear end when he is done  Again at Johnny's puffer's size he won't be making that big of a mess but inside of a year he should be close to 10 inches or so and making a mess.


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

disrupt the water surface? some said it is not good for plants i did not get that


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

Johnnyfishtanks said:


> disrupt the water surface?


Wavy ..ripply ...movement...agitation of the water surface aids in oxygenating your water. 
I have my spray bar an inch below the surface facing up on a 45 % angle disrupting the water surface


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## JUICE (Jan 4, 2020)

Aquaman said:


> Wavy ..ripply ...movement...agitation of the water surface aids in oxygenating your water.
> I have my spray bar an inch below the surface facing up on a 45 % angle disrupting the water surface


X2 my eheim spray bar add tons of air , but if you feel u need it , i got some disks if u want man , free no worries


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

its funny. i just was asking if more air is good our not for fish . and now im getting alot of different info all good thou


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

disrupt the water surface? some said it is not good for plants i did not get that, was a little confused


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

taureandragon76 said:


> Obviously you have never had a big puffer before
> 
> You need the heavy filtration with a big puffer they are pigs, very messy eaters. You should see the crap my filters suck up from mine.
> 
> ...


Water movement will give you oxygenation. Also generally if you want to grow plants you don't want an airstone as they disrupt the water surface.

i don't get it


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

Johnnyfishtanks said:


> so i have an rena xp4 is that enough air for one fish in an 180 gallon .
> it is just current flow thats it


Well the way you ask is a tiny confussing 


Johnnyfishtanks said:


> its funny. i just was asking if more air is good our not for fish . and now im getting alot of different info all good thou


Thats why your getting alot of info . filteration and air are 2 diiferent things.You can have a big nasty filter going and still low oxygen levels . but little current ( surface agitation ) adds oxygen so do air stone but to many micro bubbles are not good for your fish long term 


Johnnyfishtanks said:


> disrupt the water surface? some said it is not good for plants i did not get that, was a little confused


 Most plants dont like much current you just need surface movement ( this can be an uprising of water not a white cap situation happening in your tank.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Also the plus side with just angling it up enough to create a ripple without bubbling or splashing is it also breaks up the organic build up planted tanks can accumulate. So you'll be getting your sufficient air, aswell as that added bonus.

The movement itself isn't bad, its when you break that surface, you give a much greater surface area for co2 to degass from the tank, causing you to waste more co2 to keep the levels up. This only matters if you inject the co2 though, if you use metricide/excel, or nothing at all, the degassing effect isn't an issue at all


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Simple answer for a simple question. It is never bad unless you blowing bubbles all over. Adding more bubbles does not mean you are adding more oxygen to the water. Most of them escape to the top, pop and splash wtaer any way.

I have 30, 45, 75 gallon planted and 90 cichlid loaded with fish. Never used air stones. Fish never had problem.

Oxygen naturally get into you water through air-exchange at you water surface. So if your surface layer is moving, you constantly supply oxygen into your water volume. Plant will add oxygen to water as well through photosynthesis.

So, no worry, if you have enough filtration for your bio-load, unless you do something strange, you will have enough oxygen for your fish.



Johnnyfishtanks said:


> its funny. i just was asking if more air is good our not for fish . and now im getting alot of different info all good thou


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