# HST vote!



## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey guys,

How are you guys voting on the HST and why? I haven't decided which way to vote, as keeping it costs me money every year but keeping it is good for the province and business people who create the jobs. To me is it kind of a toss up. Which way are you guys voting and why? I would love to know why more than anything.

Curtis


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

I am leaning towards voting to keep it. We pay a little more, but if we want our education system, and health care, the province needs to get the money from somewhere. 

The opponents often state that it transfers the tax burden from big corporations to individuals, but no one has been able to explain how that is the case. In other words, I don't see where they skip out of paying the HST.

You hear the HST being blamed for just about everything under the sun, you hear the pro side misquoting adds. It can sometimes be difficult to sort it all out.

They way I understand it, the reason we are paying a little more, is because some items that were exempt under the PST are not under the HST. The province is running a deficit, which can't happen for long. If we want services like health care and education, then the province needs more income.

Steve


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm not a fan of how they have "worded" the vote: "YES" to get rid of it and "NO" to keep it (Instead of "NO" to get rid of it and "YES" to keep it!)... I think unfortunately a lot of people will not read it correctly and may not really be voting the way they want to!


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## 240sx (Sep 4, 2010)

I am voting to keep the HST because my friends and family who run small businesses have said they have saved money, decreased book keeping costs and the fact that if kept, the HST will be lowered to 10% after some time.

PLUS it would COST to switch back all and any companies systems to impliment the split taxes. 

This is a B.S. vote that is costing us tax payers either way.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

Here's an interesting take...

YouTube - ‪FightFightHST - A Letter to Bill Vander Zalm‬‏

Take it for what it's worth.


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

It has affected my work, I work in a vet clinic and HST is now being added to medications, surgeries and medical diets and in some cases (especially surgeries) it can add up to A LOT... The kind of dollar-difference that can sway people not to go ahead with procedures they now cannot afford


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## Clownloachlover (Apr 21, 2010)

I have yet to decide, however with the introduction of the HST we were told we would see retailers reduce their prices becasue they would no longer have to pay taxes on their supply transactions, I have yet to see reductions in pricing anywhere, in fact, more likley I have seen more price increases. Eating a restaurant is more expensive than it used to be a few months ago. And we all know the conspiracy and gouging of the consumer associated with gasoline. I am not sure which I agree with, but I disagree with the way the vote has been structured with "yes to extinguish" and "no to keep it" that is set up to totally confuse the voters. And lastly I disagree with the implementation of taxes on certain goods and services that were previously exempt from any tax...things like bicycles and health care products should never be taxed!


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

I'm voting to scrap the HST.

First, let me say that I have a huge issue with any sales taxes in general, because they are paid with after tax income - essentially they are a tax on a tax. The whole argument that this will also encourage business to hire more is crap.We saw this with Ronald Regan and "trickle down" economics, and it's been proven that it's not true. If you squeeze the consumer, they stop buying, which hurts business. Yeah, larger corporations will make more and spend less tax, but they don't pass it on. Most of them answer to shareholders over consumers. 

The HST taxes items that I feel very strongly should not be subject to any sales tax (medical expenses, used cars health items, heating fuel, home repairs, vet bills, and purchases over a certain amount). The HST applies to a large number of this type of item that previously were exempt from the PST. Sure, you might get a rebate, but the rebate qualifications mean that a lot of people fall through the cracks, and rebates are not easy or cheap for government to administer.

I also REALLY do not support the way this tax was introduced. The fact that it took massive public outrage for the government to even consider adjusting the tax, not to mention the bald faced lying (remember the claims that this tax would be "revenue neutral"?) that went on around it. Watching Christy Clark spend taxpayer money on advertising the supposed "benefits" of the tax makes me sick. How many public services would $5M buy? It sure gets you a lot of stick men on the TV!


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

Keri said:


> I'm not a fan of how they have "worded" the vote: "YES" to get rid of it and "NO" to keep it (Instead of "NO" to get rid of it and "YES" to keep it!)... I think unfortunately a lot of people will not read it correctly and may not really be voting the way they want to!


 I agree. A lot of thought is put into the wording of these things, so it was no doubt done intentionally. Whatever the rate, it makes sense to have a single tax so I will reluctantly vote No.


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

Clownloachlover - That was what I was getting at with the exemptions.

I do know a lady who is very happy to receive her HST rebate checks, but is still very opposed to the HST. Ironically she lives on income assistance and believes she needs more money to live off of. I did ask her how many jobs I should be working to feed her Starbucks habit ($5 - $10 per visit). 

Elle - Your reply seams to be based on pure emotion. If you are that angry, write them a well worded letter explaining why you will not be voting for them in future, unless they change their tune. It goes a lot further than ranting and voting based on emotion in a referendum.

I believe their should have been a third option on the referendum. The HST naturally expires in 2015, with or without the referendum. The anti HST people ended up costing us a lot of extra money to get rid of a tax that was only for 5 years. The smarter thing to do would have been to wait until the tax expires, collect real data then decide. If we vote yes, we will be in violation of our contract with the federal government. It will be well within their rights to ask for the $1.6 billion back.

The third question should have been to ask if you want to keep it until the expiry date then scrap it.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

To me the HST makes sense. I think that if you look long term, it will be good for the province and economy as whole. 

What I do not agree with, like thousands of other people, is how the tax was introduced, and how the whole thing was handled. Typical slimey politics, say one thing and do another and expect people just to bend over. 
If they had spent as much time educating people before the introduction of the tax as they are now, I think more people would be accepting of it. 

Then we would not be wasting money on another vote, like we are now. 

They really needed to spend a lot more time thinking about how different industries would be effected, and use that information in order to come up with their exemptions list. 
I have seen first hand it's negative effects on the food service industry. Yet, I believe that these are growing pains that in the long run will be negated by the positives the HST brings overall. 

I don't think there is a black and white answer, as there are so many variables involved. For me, it's a close one, but I will vote No.


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## Treasure chest (Apr 21, 2010)

I intend to vote for yes to rid of it. The tax was shoveled down our throat with no public consultation. Right after their election campaign promise of no HST. And I have yet to see any benefits for working class(Not expecting any). Plus the way the liberal is running the HST campaign right now sounds more lies to me then truth.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

Great points.

No one likes to pay more for things. Plain and simple. I think that this is something we can all agree on.

Unfortunately, a lot of people will vote to get rid of the HST based upon the short term effects, rather than looking at things in the long run. Seeing any end user savings in the short term is not very likely. Things like this tend to take time, and with the economy just teetering on the edge of recovery, most businesses will take any breaks they can get at this point.

Businesses are what drives the economy. It may suck that you have to pay more for now, but the more capital businesses have, the more they are able to reinvest and grow, jobs are created, and often times, the cost to the end user comes down. It takes time.

If they need to amend anything, they should maybe look at the hardest hit industries and make some changes to what is exempt.

As with anything, there are no guarantees. However, the old system in itself was far from perfect, and people complained about that as well. Now the same people are crying to have it back as if it was the best thing ever to pay two taxes.

Hopefully people can see the forest for the trees.

Just my two cents. 



rescuepenguin said:


> Clownloachlover - That was what I was getting at with the exemptions.
> 
> I do know a lady who is very happy to receive her HST rebate checks, but is still very opposed to the HST. Ironically she lives on income assistance and believes she needs more money to live off of. I did ask her how many jobs I should be working to feed her Starbucks habit ($5 - $10 per visit).
> 
> ...


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## budahrox (Apr 21, 2010)

Extinguish that puppy!!
Cheers!!


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## mcrocker (May 29, 2010)

I haven't fully decided, but I'm leaning towards voting to keep the HST. While I'm somewhat doubtful that the savings seen by businesses will ever actually trickle down to the consumer, I think having a single tax to manage makes much more sense than having two to manage. Simplifying the accounting by only charging HST to the end consumer is much more efficient for both the businesses and administrators of the tax.

I also think that with the time and effort it will take to get rid of the HST will outweigh any benefit of switching back to the old system, at least in the immediate future. Even if we have a slightly lower tax afterward, if the switch costs the government money, it will eventually come back to cost the taxpayers money.

A third reason (not a really good one) is that %10 is a nice round number to use for taxes. We will be able to quickly calculate the tax on a purchase in our heads. Not that I have a problem with estimating %12 tax, but %10 will really make it easy.

Everybody is mad about the way the HST was introduced, so it's tough to be objective when deciding how to vote. Emotions will come into play, and I expect a lot of people will vote to repeal the HST simply so that they can stick it to the government in return for the way they stuck us with this tax.


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## Blackbar (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm really angry about the lies with which this tax was brought in, the deception in the advertising they're now using to promote it and the fact that they are now trying to buy us back with our own money. And of course there is the $1.6 billion pay back if it's rejected. We've been screwed.

My strata fees alone went up over $300/year due to the HST and that's just one expense. I'm currently a full-time student, my wife is a part-time student and apparently we make too much money to get a rebate.

Watch these clips to get a good idea of what the HST is doing for us.

CTV British Columbia - Is the HST really good for business? - CTV News

CTV British Columbia - Does the HST cost you more or less? - CTV News

We're suckers if we really think this is benifitting the lower and middle class. I don't mind one tax but the sure as hell haven't been fair about it.

My vote: drop it - which almost guarantees it will pass.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

Economic arguments become meaningless when confronted with notion of supporting anything which Bill Vander Zalm champions.


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## davej (Apr 28, 2010)

Clownloachlover said:


> I have yet to decide, however with the introduction of the HST we were told we would see retailers reduce their prices because they would no longer have to pay taxes on their supply transactions, I have yet to see reductions in pricing anywhere


You hit it on the nose, the other thing is that we are paying it on so many more things than we used to. I think I am going to vote to kill it just to send a message to the Liberals. It's not OK to lie to us about the fact that they would never bring in the HST and then right after they are elected there it is.


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## big_bubba_B (Apr 25, 2010)

nice thing about alberta no stupid taxes like that , just 5% gst .


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## djamm (Sep 25, 2010)

Get rid of it...We pay to much in tax as it is...

tax cuts would have already happened if they were actual going to happen...


Vote down the HST!!!!


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

I do not like the way they implemented the tax, nor do i see how it realistically increases jobs. True it reduces administration costs for businesses, but that money doesn't go to the employees. This province (and nation) is on a trend to drive wages down, and to ensure pay raises each year are below inflation levels, and this in no way has impacted that trend. It has negatively impacted quite a few small businesses thanks to their products now being taxed. Their voices have been quite thoroughly ignored by the province. Even when i worked for a very small 15 person outfit, the owner was raging how he'll end up paying more now because all the money saved in administration will just be used by other outfits to undercut competitors, yet he still has to pay the tax for personal uses like everyone else. For employees working in the food or salon industries, they are seeing less tips thank to the increased tax. These tips they require to live off of since their pay sucks.

What i really do not like is how we are being held hostage by the threat of transitional funds being "lost." These funds shouldn't have been spent right away and i doubt they were, most likely they were just added to the general revenue of the province to mask some of the deficit. I also hate the ads i cant get away from. They are in my papers, they are on the TV on most stations, they are even on the damn radio. It is ridiculous how much a province can spend to support their policy with tax payers money. I hate seeing everywhere HST = 10% pst = 12%, without a mention of the time line, or explanation why the time line takes so long to bring the tax to that level. If they are cutting the provincial portion of the HST, why cant they cut the PST aswell?

I think no one's decision should be based on the threat of the transition fund removal, it should be based on if they agree with the tax scheme. That corporate administration costs should be reduced in exchange for us paying more for meal, haircut, pet fees, etc. That is what it boils down to.

Look at the governments track record with provinces through the terms they've been in power. Ignore the fact that christie clark is a new premier. Remember that she was a minister and deputy premier while a lot of the shady dealings happened. You have BC Rail, Nurses contracts being torn up, BC Ferry's quasi privatization (they borrowed money from the government to buy out the governments stock... wtf?), BC hydro being barred from independently developing power generation (they now have to team up with a private partner, or buy directly from them), etc. There's a lot more, and all of it seems to be dodged by one arguement, "Fast ferries." A failed project by the NDP that cost no where near as much harm to BC as the majority of these backdoor policies the liberals have implemented. What i am getting at is i do not trust the numbers the liberals give, they have no reason for me to trust them. I do not trust Bill Vander Zalm either, but he has others on his team i do see as credible.

So there you Have it. I AM VOTING YES TO ELIMINATE THE HST.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

djamm said:


> Get rid of it...We pay to much in tax as it is...
> 
> tax cuts would have already happened if they were actual going to happen...
> 
> Vote down the HST!!!!


 Problem is, the way theyve engineered it, voting down the HST will actually increase taxes.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

TomC said:


> Problem is, the way theyve engineered it, voting down the HST will actually increase taxes.


How so? I think that is what they want you to think, currently the HST sits at 12%, the PST, GST system was at 12%, so in effect they are taxed at the same rate. However since the HST is on 20% more goods and services right now you are paying way more. Even when it is lowered to 10% because of all of the extra things you are being taxed on you will pay more at 10% HST than at the 12% Pst, Gst because of the extra items that you are paying taxes on. Even the government agrees to that. So if the HST stays and the lower it to 10% you will still pay more. That is it plain and simple. If you are going to base your decision on what is cheaper for you, you then should vote Yes to get ride of it.

From everything i have read and heard on the radio this is true. What the government would like you to do is to keep it at a small sacrifice to yourself for the good of what they say is small business but what is really true us for then so they have extra money to pay for the services that "we" want. I would be cool with helping out my province and my fellow BCer if I felt like this was really true, however here are my issues:

1) I don't think much if any of the prices came down like the government and economists said. It might take years to happen, they say. Well I don't really want to wait years, I have a family and I would like to pay less now.

2) If the HST is so great for business and they were truly doing it for small businesses, then what they should have done was to negotiate with the federal government that the HST would have the same exemptions that the PST did, that way we wouldn't have to choose, it would give the small business the advantage and kept the consumer paying the same. They said the feds wouldn't let them do this, but I have yet to hear why. I could imagine it would mean that the feds would loose money as not as many things would be taxed with GST, but again that question has never been answered for me.

3) I think that the HST will get a lot of BCers shopping in the states as the prices there are already cheaper, and this will make them even more so. My wife and I do a lot of shopping down their and we seem to do more and more of it their all the time, just because of the prices. This will hurt the small business. Now that wont be true for all BCers, but certainly 75% or more live within about 30 km's of the border.

4) I think the government wastes so much money and they just throw money at things like healthcare without caring how it gets spent. I think that we get terrible value for our tax dollar, and that is why I hate paying more taxes than I should as so much of my money I feel gets wasted rather than spent wisely. If it was spent wisely then I would have less issues paying more tax, but I certainly don't feel that way. I agree that things like healthcare are issues, but I don't think that just throwing more money at them are always the answer, and that is what I fear will just happen, and it will lead to even a higher percentage of wasted money.

One worry I have about getting rid of it is that I am sure businesses will use it as an excuse to hike prices saying their costs will go up so they have to charge more. So not only did the prices not go down, but they will then go up even further, and that would truly suck.

I still don't know which way to vote, but I certainly agree this isn't an easy decision and I have thought long and hard about it that is for sure.


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## Luc (Mar 22, 2011)

Just My 2 cents I think The HST would be fine if they didn't tax Groceries! My mom priced it out for my family and she said with the HST she pays 1300 more a year then she normally would >.<


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I don't believe there's any HST on most groceries. i.e. meats, veggies, milk...most stuff you would buy and take home to make dinner. I never did understood though why they tax "junk" food...soft drinks and snacks....always baffled me. That started back in the plain ol' GST days.



Luc said:


> Just My 2 cents I think The HST would be fine if they didn't tax Groceries! My mom priced it out for my family and she said with the HST she pays 1300 more a year then she normally would >.<


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

The government right now has made it real difficult for people to vote against the HST. Only reason would be to spite the liberals and that's not exactly a good reason for me to vote against it. All the actions they've taken, like reducing the rate to 10% and also saying that there's no guarantee that they previously PST exempt items would revert to PST exempt, would make it hard for anyone who's trying to take a logical stance on this. I just want to pay less. The biggest hurt I feel is with restaurant meals....new home HST as well, but heck, who can afford a new home anyways.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Tony,

I believe you are not correct on something, they will have to return to PST the way it was previously with the same exemptions, the have to do that. Also even if they lower it to 10% you will still pay more under the HST at 10% than on PST + GST at 12%, because it is on so many more items. 

Curtis


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Hi Curtis,

Yeah, I just read somewhere on the government propaganda that they said there are no guarantees it all goes back to the way it was. And as for paying more, it all depends on the basket of goods that you consume but I'm sure the government will get their pound of flesh somehow. There's a million ways to get more money out of us. HST is simply but one method.

Tony



cpool said:


> Tony,
> 
> I believe you are not correct on something, they will have to return to PST the way it was previously with the same exemptions, the have to do that. Also even if they lower it to 10% you will still pay more under the HST at 10% than on PST + GST at 12%, because it is on so many more items.
> 
> Curtis


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

this was in the paper today:

The BC Liberal/Smart Tax Alliance Top Seven HST Myths | Fight HST - Join Bill Vander Zalm in Fighting back against HST. Volunteer Today.


> The BC Liberal "myths" about the HST just keep piling up.
> 
> We don't have the budget to fight the lies, we need your help. Keep the message going by forwarding this link to all the people you know and ask them to do the same.
> 
> ...


I particularly like #7


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Well me as a groomer, now hst on grooming. Customers grumbled but pay. 
As far as me paying, before I had to pay the pst on supplies and they give a few dollars to collect. I paid more and two bills .pst won't go for late payments.
Now any hst I pay on supplies etc passes through . Deducts from what I pay. I'd say my shops better off. Customers pay the same on supplies. Where it affects people is on the services. Ie. Spas. Massages, expensive bottles of wine,golf games, expensive cars, etc. Who does it target? Not the poorer families. They aren't using these services as much.it targets the richer families. and the lower income get hst cheques. More than before.
It helps the large corporations. Better reason to stay in the province . We need large corporations in bc for the economy. They all bail. Our economy sinks and jobs.
As far as junk food, that's all the food that causes health problems. Diabetes, obesity etc. Guess who's using the health system.


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

April said:


> Guess who's using the health system.


Oh... Everyone.


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## waynet (Apr 22, 2010)

If I were to vote, I vote to drop it. Since I don't want to pay two taxes on food.

Also, I don't like how they "worded" to keep or not to keep the HST. I think this is dishonesty.

Why can they just word it normally so people can't be tricked.

From this, I know whoever wants to keep the HST is not honest about the HST on how it will benefit people.

Also, if you vote "No" meaning to keep the HST, the ads says the HST will be reduced to 10%. It does not mean 10% right away, it is over at least two years I think. How come they don't tell you this in the ads? It just say HST will be reduced to 10%.

From all these tricks, I know the HST is not about saving you money.



Keri said:


> I'm not a fan of how they have "worded" the vote: "YES" to get rid of it and "NO" to keep it (Instead of "NO" to get rid of it and "YES" to keep it!)... I think unfortunately a lot of people will not read it correctly and may not really be voting the way they want to!


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## Shell Dweller (Jul 11, 2010)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Dear BC residents,

The BC Liberal “myths” about the HST just keep piling up.

We don't have the budget to fight the lies, we need your help. Keep the message going by forwarding this link to all the people you know and ask them to do the same.

Following is their latest Top Seven – all new and misleading as ever – HST Myths:

1. The HST is now 10% - False
The HST is 12% and will not be 10% for three years – if ever. There will be an election before that, and even if the HST were to miraculously drop to 10% - it will still apply to hundreds more goods and services than a 12% PST/GST for a consumer tax increase of $1.6B per year. And who says it won’t go right back up again later?

2. The HST will lower taxes – False
This one is hilarious. The HST increases taxes for British Columbians by $2.8 Billion per year. That’s an average annual increase of $500 per person - or $1208 per average family – forever.. Finance Minister Falcon says if his side loses he may disregard the result and expand the PST to items previously exempt – and that’s illegal. Do you really trust this guy to cut the rate if he wins?

3. The HST will save you money - False
And the tooth fairy is going to leave you a quarter under your pillow too. To get their numbers to show the HST actually “saving” you money they are calculating only “routine purchases” and that 90% of what you pay in HST will be passed back to you in lower prices. Have you seen lower prices?... We didn’t think so.

4. The HST benefits seniors - False
Seniors and people on fixed incomes are some of the hardest hit by the HST. A one time rebate of $175 if you vote in favour of their tax in exchange for paying it for the next 10-30 years of your retirement is a deal only a snake oil salesman would offer. Why take $175 when you can vote to cancel the HST and keep all your money? How dumb do they think we are?

5. The HST benefits families – False
Next to seniors, working families are hardest hit by the HST because they are among the largest consumers and have dependent children. Bribes of $175 per child when your cost is closer to $400 a year each makes you wonder if they think all of us failed math as badly as they did. And what about a single mom with two kids going to college? She gets nothing while the Premier and Finance Minister who earn big six figure salaries get the rebate. Nice.

6. Business will pay more so you can pay less - False
A temporary increase of 2% in corporate taxes will be passed on to consumers with increased prices.. Either way you pay the final bill whether it’s in HST or higher prices.

7. We will owe $1.6 Billion if we cancel the HST - False
The “Independent Panel” says the HST generated $850 million more than budgeted. Setting aside that is the biggest tax grab in history, it means government already has $850 million to repay Ottawa. BC has only received $1B, and Ottawa collected $300M more in corporate taxes under the HST than under the PST. So it’s a wash. And keeping the HST would cost British Columbians a lot more than killing it – over $28 Billion in new taxes in just 10 years.
Vote YES to extinguish the HST and save your province, your democracy, and your money!


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

When this thread was first posted, I was leaning in favor of keeping it. After hearing from small businesses, such as April, I am more in favor of it. I care about small businesses over large businesses as economists state over and over that small businesses are the economic driver of our economy. They are the job creators. The economists also state that money spent at a small business does more for the local economy than money spent at a big business.

The opposition make claims, but how does the HST shift the tax burden to consumers, no one has explained that to me. I can see the savings in accounting costs, but that is not a tax savings, it isn't a tax that they paid before. 
The HST is handled the same way the GST has been for 20 or so years. A business adds up the total amount collected and subtracts the amount they paid and remit the difference.

My feeling is the same. The tax expires in 2015, wait and see what happens then vote on it then, after more data has been collected. Both sides are playing on basic human emotions, and I see some of it in this thread.

Steve


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

I can guarantee it will cost us more if we dump the HST and go back to the two tax system. Unfortunately I have to hold my nose and vote to keep the HST.. NO to Vander Zalm's attempt to kill it and go back. There are better ways it could have been implemented, and there is misinformation being peddled by both sides of the argument, but a properly administered HST far more efficient and less costly for small business, even though at the same time moving more of the direct taxes from business to consumers .. Either way, we will pay the tax .. either directly as HST, or indirectly by higher prices to cover the two taxes and their accounting costs .


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

quite a few things are taxed that hit the consumer quite a bit more than a business... Some of it is not a big deal, but others are necessities. Adding them all up can be costly to a few people, especially those who are unable to do several of these services themselves due to disabilities. 7% extra the provincial government gets unless otherwise stated.

Accounting
Admission Fees
Advertising
Airline tickets
Animal feeds (hay is exempt)
Appliance repair & maintenance
Architects
Art Galleries Admission
Attractions / Events
Ballet Lessons
Basic Cable TV
Bicycles
Campgrounds
Cigarettes / Cigars
Catering
Chinese medicine
Clothing –adult sized children
Clothing – used adult (less than $100)
Coffee shops
Commercial Leases
Compost
Computer servicing
Concert Tickets
Condo management fees
Consulting services
Conveyance fees
Delivery Services
Dietary supplements
Dry cleaning
Driving Range fees
Electronics repair
Energy equipment
Esthetician Services
Fast food – Beverages
Fire extinguishers
First aid kits
Fishing charters
Fitness Club memberships
Fitness Trainers
Food producing trees and plants
Freight (in BC)
Funeral services
Golf fees
Grass Cutting
Hair cuts
Hall rental
Health equipment
Helmets
Hockey tickets
Hockey rink rentals
Home appraisals
Home inspections
Home maintenance
Home renovations (Labour)
Horse Boarding
Horse Shows
Horse riding lessons
House Cleaning services
Insulation
Interior design services
Investment Counseling fees
Landscaping
Life jackets
Limousine rentals
Magazines/ newspapers
Marketing services
Massage therapy
Membership fees
Moorage
Museum admissions
Movies / Theatre
Moving Costs
Music MP3 downloads
Naturopathy
New Homes (some rebates applicable)
Nicotine replacements
Non-prescription meds
Painting
Parking
Photography
Postage
Private Bus fares
Printing
Rail travel (originating in BC)
Real estate fees
Reflexology
Rentals for Weddings, Canopy, Tuxedo etc.
Reroofing House
Restaurant meals
RV parks
Safety equipment (Not all safety and Energy Equipment is affected)
School supplies
Shoe repairs
Skiing
Smoke detectors
Snow removal
Solar power
Some groceries
Spa services
Sports Training / Lessons
Storage lockers
Tailoring
Taxi fares
Telephone (Basic Charge for landlines will be affected)
Theatre admissions
Veterinarian
Video downloads
Vitamins
Wedding Planner
Windows (energy star)
Rentals / Strata fees (Though they are HST exempt, most people will notice increases brought on by an increase in maintenance costs and other costs associated with owning Rental and Strata properties)
Used cars / trucks / boats / non-turbine aircraft (Private Sale will have an additional 5% tax, it is not called HST)

some businesses may say customers pay it anyways, but what choice does the customer really have? for those on limited fixed incomes who need several of these services, every bit of extra taxation hurts a lot. I think its pretty hurting that children's sporting activities are getting extra taxation, as is health products and over the counter medicines. It must be great to be a provincial with their hands tied behind their backs and say, "Oh we cant change the exemptions, that's the federal jurisdiction... So sorry sir, i guess we're stuck taking more point of sale taxes from you"


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

Read through that list , then ask " How many of those things were already taxed on both GST and PST, and how many of those goods and services do I use" to see how the tax changes really affect you.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

they were all not taxed the pst portion before, but im sure some of the items are a bit generalized. From the list i counted 37 would affect me

i should also add this bit of number crunching.

The hst applies to 46% of spending. Assuming hst does get reduced to 10% lets apply it to $1000. so $460 gets a total of *$46 paid in tax*.

now take the PST + GST system. PST on 29% of items, and GST on 46% of items. Applied to $1000. 
so $290 of the 1000 charged 7% PST = $20.30; $460 charged 5% GST = $23... total is *$43.30 paid in tax*

so in the end we still pay more with HST even with the reduction in tax rate


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Just from reading the posts here, its no wonder people are confused....this tax affects different people differently and for the two sides to continue to generalize isn't helping. I'm an accountant and I deal with taxes all the time and I really couldn't give you a straight answer myself. Personally, I don't like the way the tax was brought it as I thought it was very underhanded. At the same time, the fact that the "yes" side decided it was good to use Zalm as their spokesperson is laughable. I guess they had figured everyone had forgotten why he's no longer in politics in the first place. I'm a corporate controller and I know its good for our company. On the tax filing / reporting side, one less authority to deal with saving us a lot of time and energy. On the tax credit side, all that stuff we used to pay PST on, we now get to claim back as credits in its entirety (mostly). It does make a difference to us. Will it cause us to drop prices? I'm not sure, not that I've seen in the short run. Will it free up more budget to hire a few more people? Most likely yes.


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Well, I just got my ballot, still unsure how to vote. I am not sure I will even vote, as I don't know if I care which way it goes. I don't know if the extra $2.70 per every $1000 I spend really makes that much of a difference. Most of my money spent is in the states anyway because it is so much cheaper (I paid 88 cents a litre in gas yesterday in bellingham, life is good) and I am not sure how much my life would be that different if we kept the HST just because of that fact. I think something that BCers should be up in arms over more than the HST is the cost differences between here and the Stats and if we can get our costs down, then the HST won't make that much of a difference. I mean $2 a gallon for milk compaired to almost $5 here, seriously, that is crazy.


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## CCBettas (Jul 6, 2010)

I just voted No to extinguishing the HST. No, I do not believe the ballot question is misleading considering those who it is pandering to - those who are in favour of having it extinguished.
A harmonized tax can only be efficient in the long run - it effectively cuts reporting costs by both the business person and the government in half.

Having a look at the list posted by Neven, I can't imagine, as a poor student, "needing" any of those aside from smoke detectors and school supplies. I would love to see the day when I can hire and Accountant, Architect, Private Fitness Trainer, Massage Therapist, Wedding Planner, Tailor, and be able to have my grass cut while I Moore my Yacht, before I catch my private Bus to the Spa during the trip to the Ski Hill. This consumption tax certainly targets the poor.


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## Clownloachlover (Apr 21, 2010)

cpool said:


> I think something that BCers should be up in arms over more than the HST is the cost differences between here and the Stats and if we can get our costs down, then the HST won't make that much of a difference. I mean $2 a gallon for milk compaired to almost $5 here, seriously, that is crazy.


Man, that is the truth...just shop online with companies that have both american and canadian sites. I found a $500.00 price difference for the exact same product for something I wanted between a US and Canadian site...how does the retailer justify a $500.00 cost difference? Chances are the product is shipped out of the same US warehouse anyways but where is the $500.00 upcharge?

Canadians are getting ripped off by retailers in my mind. The Seattle Premium Outlet Mall is a great example. I bought two pairs of dress shoes (first line, not factory seconds) and two Nike tennis shirts, for the same price as I could buy one pair of dress shoes here in Vancouver.

We get taxed to death here in Canada and the retailers use the cost difference in the dollar and import fees and stuff like that to justify prices...sorry I dont buy it...I too shop south of the border and until such times as someone tells me straight up, why the HST is better for this province and better for me, I will support Mr. Vander Zalm and vote YES to extinguish the HST


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## bcareader (Nov 7, 2010)

This HST discussion is quite interesting. Given the distance we in BC have gone down the HST path to date, turning back the clock does not seem prudent or practical. People are best to vent their unhappiness at the next Provincial Election.

The Proposition model (like this HST vote), where citizens make virtually day-to-day decisions on whether they want to pay taxes has been shown in California to not work well at all (the outcomes have created huge problems for basic services to the population as this link target shows):

The 2011-12 Budget: California's Fiscal Outlook

As for the differences in cost of goods between the US and Canada. In specific cases, sure there are issues and anomalies. But by and large the two most significant reasons for cheap US goods are:

1) The US market (2010 census put it at about 308 million) is approximately 10x larger than the Canadian market, and

2) The US economy is not reflecting the true cost of goods to its consumers.

Note that:

As of June 29th, 2011, the Total Public Debt Outstanding of the United States of America was $14.46*trillion and was approximately 98.6% of calendar year 2010's annual gross domestic product (GDP) of $14.66*trillion.

So, if Greece is any indicator, you should expect that things are not going to remain cheap in the US for very much longer.

Would anyone wish to trade both the Canadian population size and the deficit for the current US situation?

To me the HST seems easier to work with and fine tune. If there are applications of the tax we disagree with, then we should lobby our politicians to address those specific issues and determine what programs should be cut or where that revenue will be recovered. For sure, in my view, the budget models being used south of the border are not something we want to emulate.

Cheers.


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## sdfish223 (Jul 27, 2010)

bcareader said:


> This HST discussion is quite interesting. Given the distance we in BC have gone down the HST path to date, turning back the clock does not seem prudent or practical. People are best to vent their unhappiness at the next Provincial Election.
> 
> The Proposition model (like this HST vote), where citizens make virtually day-to-day decisions on whether they want to pay taxes has been shown in California to not work well at all (the outcomes have created huge problems for basic services to the population as this link target shows):
> 
> ...


California is far from having low taxes. I spent 25 years there, and they find very creative ways to get your money in "fees".

California needs to learn to spend less, and learn they dont need to offer as many social services as they do, and get inline with most of the other 48 states.


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

This tax has been brought in by a bunch of amatuers. If this is a good tax why couldn't they bring it to the legislature to debate like a democracy? Oh right, we don't open the legislature, it's too inconvenient for the liberals.

Now we here we need upgraded hydro metres at our homes, that will cost us hundreds of millions and all the benefits touted by the government are turning out to be lies.(they are open to hackers)

Utilities commision has been cut out of policy decisions so insiders can lock up power contracts

BC Rail sale...
...and I could go on but for what?

If there's cynacism out here it's well earned. 

But I think it's probably a good tax.

As far as trickle down effect... our dollar has risen from 66 cents to over $1.00 yet a vehicle hasn't dropped 70%. Trickle down is the biggest load of bollucks since the oil shortage.


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

Just voted No. As stated before I think there should have been a 3rd question, to keep it until 2015. 

BcaReader is absolutely correct. There is one detail to remember. The person that introduced this has already lost his job. The other Liberals may or may not have been involved, but to accuse them with solid evidence, is no different to a friend of yours getting terminated at work, then you getting terminated as well, with the employer reasoning that if he/she committed the offense that you, being his/her must be guilty as well.

If you are upset let your MLA know, and send a CC to the premier, don't forget to offer solutions. Next election you can vote them out or in, your choice.

I urge everyone who is thinking emotionally to stop, take a deep breath and think about what is best.

Unlike some people I still shop up here, pay taxes so that we may still have the social safety net that we all enjoy, and keep some of my fellow BCers employed at the same time


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

No matter what we vote government will get us somehow. Either way, somebody will pay for it, mostly working class. I just wish they spent those $5mil on schools or hospitals instead of those stupid stick men. I don't buy junk food, so no difference there for me, but I'm already taxed on my income, so I don't want to be charged extra on my other bills. I vote yes to get rid of it!


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## Elmo (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm in the plumbing and heating service biz ... it has added 7% to absolutely every invoice I create. The number of "cash" customers has gone through the roof. Up untill the HST, I was required to collect GST only as PST was considered "paid at source" ... now I am the source and have to add that extra 7%!


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

Here is a good read for those who are planning to vote to keep the hst.

http://lailayuile.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/bc_citca_nov09.pdf

HST agreements for easy reference - Vote Yes to say NO to the HST | I'm Laila Yuile, And This Is How I See It


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