# Discus with plants and substrate.



## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Good evening all, 

So I've finally converted my saltwater back into freshwater, and I am in hopes of keeping a discus tank with a few community fish as well (rams, tetras). 

I have a 110G tank, which would be adequate room for my set-up. 

For the past week I've been researching care and set-up for a discus tank, and the more I expand my knowledge on discus, the more one thing just keeps being repeated by the pros over and over: Bare bottom tank.

I understand that discus will require daily water changes, and have a high bio-load up-keep and now I keep getting an uneasy feeling about having substrate and a couple of plants in the tank. 

My tank is a display tank, and although discus are beautiful fish, a bare bottom tank would just look almost, unfinished, and certainly not worthy of a display tank. 

For those of you who do have a planted discus tank, how do you vacuum the sand thoroughly without having to uproot all your plants/decor in the process. From what I remember, even if I were to vacuum the open areas of the sand, the waste generally would collect under rocks or driftwood, in which case it would be impossible to reach without having to take out all decor, and then thoroughly vacuuming. This would be alright for a regular freshwater set-up, but having to do this daily for a discus tank would be bothersome not only to myself, but the fish as well. How do you get around this?

What are your experiences/thoughts on this topic? Am I just being paranoid right now? haha


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

I have great big pebbles in my discus tank - I kind of hate it because I feed frequently and the food falls in the spaces so I do frequent water changes but it's not ideal - I just also hate bare bottom tanks! 
I have seen some "planters" for tanks that might enable you to have both BB and plants?


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## josephl (Apr 21, 2010)

If you are planning to do daily water changes, I would not worry about having gravel with discus. 

I started my 210 gallon as a high tech planted discus tank and have since gone low tech, taken out the CO2 and the only fertilizer I add for the plants I have is Excel. 

I probably have anyone from 1 - 4 inches of gravel in different parts of the tank, the tank has been up and running for 3 years and with daily water changes, the discus are thriving and spawning.

Discus aren't that tough a fish to keep, IMO, they are easier than guppies. Just start with good high quality stock(no matter how tempting it is to buy the $20 discus), and then it's all about good food and regular water changes.

Contrary to what others say to do, my discus are at 78 -80 degrees so plants and other community fish will survive and they are fine

Good luck and welcome to the world of discus


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

imo, BB tanks are ideal for those discus-keepers who wish to grow out juvenile discus to their optimum size in the least possible time, and in the safest, cleanest, easiest manner possible, and it works.

However for those of you, like me, who really appreciate a planted, display environment, and still enjoy your discus too - you can most certainly do that !
Sure, it takes somewhat more care and attention, but it's not difficult. It's not rocket science that's for sure - just get yourself a half dozen or more, healthy, good-sized discus from an experienced, reputable source, and go for it !

Your 110 gallon tank would be ideal for say 8 - 4" or larger discus, along with a reasonable number of other dither fish that you care for - e.g. you mentioned rams & tetras - excellent choices.
You can get by quite well with a medium planted, low-tech tank, along with a maintenance routine of 2 or 3 large wcs a week, say 50%, and substrate vac, tank wipedown, and filter rinsing/replacements on each wc.
I suggest you consider pool filter sand, with plant fertilizing with root tabs, and dry or liquid water column ferts. Leave a good amount of free swimming space for the discus and enjoy your set-up. Sand vac is easy and effective - so don't be concerned.

I've kept discus for years in nothing but planted tanks and don't put in more than a couple, or max 3 hours a week, on a religious maintenance routine, to ensure high quality water params and crystal clear water - it's really very simple.

Have a look at my planted discus tank to see if you like the effect:
Sept2011 pictures by discuspaul - Photobucket

I recommend you give it a try - and you can be sure you'll get lots of help if you need it from the several very experienced discus-keepers on this forum. And feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Best of luck.


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## Rajan (Apr 21, 2010)

Use turface. It's awsome. Great colour and great for plants. I have 50lbs of it for $20 if you want bonsai Dave also uses it in his discus and angel tanks


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Hmm, Well hearing from some of you experienced discus keepers definitely is a bit more comforting. 

I can't remember exactly which type, as someone had set my tank up before about 3 years ago, but I believe I have white aragonite sand from caribsea in my tank. It looks beautiful when clean and I think having the lighter coloured substrate will help with the peppering and such for the discus. 

In terms of the plants, they are not as important for me to keep as compared to having the substrate and a few decorations and such, so it will most likely be a low tech aquarium, I'm only looking to keep maybe two or three plants, which I think would be plenty given that there will also be rocks and driftwood and other decor in the aquarium. 

Thanks a lot for the quick replies and help, I can definitely breathe a bit easier now haha.

Its just a bit daunting repeatedly reading the same thing from different sources about recommending bare bottom tanks over ones with substrate/decor.


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

I just checked out your pictures discuspaul, and I must say that looks very beautiful. I've done nothing but research/look at pictures of discus the last week or so, and yours definitely are one of the best ones I've seen so far.

How do you thoroughly vacuum your substrate without disturbing the plants? or do you just only vacuum the open parts of the substrate? then doesn't the waste collect near the untouched areas of the substrate where the plants are planted?


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

F.H said:


> I just checked out your pictures discuspaul, and I must say that looks very beautiful. I've done nothing but research/look at pictures of discus the last week or so, and yours definitely are one of the best ones I've seen so far.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> How do you thoroughly vacuum your substrate without disturbing the plants? or do you just only vacuum the open parts of the substrate? then doesn't the waste collect near the untouched areas of the substrate where the plants are planted?


It's really not a problem,F.H
I do min. 50% to 60% wcs 2 or 3 X a week, and do a full maintenance routine with each wc.
Using white PFS which is quite dense, I have no problem getting the vac head into the rear of the tank, and fully around all the plant stems and the driftwood, as well as the open areas. I would estimate that I clear up at least 90% of all the detritus and fish waste with each wc/vac. The plants are all well rooted and it doesn't disturb them much, if at all.

As for keeping it clean (it does get somewhat dirty over time, and occasionally accumulates a light film of algae), that's easily cleaned up by stirring up/turning over as much sand as possible with each wc.
If you siphon out 10% to 15% of the sand every 4 to 6 months, and replace it with new sand, you can keep your substrate looking quite clean all the time.

You viewed my tank, which has been set up nearly 2 years (not the same discus though), and I've replaced some sand that way only twice in that time, and the sand always looks very good.
Any other questions, fire away.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I gravel vac my white Estes sand about once a month with a long tube gravel vac by waving it or using my hand to "blow" the surface at about 2" - 3" above the sand. I have 3 powerheads moving the debris in a circular pattern to drive the stuff to my Eheim 2078. Some detritus does gather in the rocks and wood in the centre, but nothing major. I use root tabs along with Metricide 14 (for carbon) and dose a bit of KH2PO3 and KNO3 along with Equilibrium.

I change 60 - 75% of the water every other day in the tank and have 7 adult discus and plecos, cories, and 3 kinds of tetras in the tank, so it's a pretty high bioload.


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. 

Definitely I will take you up on your offer for questions as I tend to have a lot of them. For now I'm still researching a bit more, and trying to answer things myself without becoming too much of a bother around here haha. 

Cheers,

Fahd.


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