# Crushed oyster shells in the filter to buffer pH



## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

I picked up some beautiful 4.5" discus from Rick last weekend and he was saying some people use crashed oyster shells in the filter to buffer pH to offset the pH dropping in our soft water. Can some tell me how much crushed oyster shells to use for this purpose? I have a 55g tank with 6 discus. Thanks.


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

you can get big bags very cheap at feed stores. just make sure you rinse it very well. what kind of filter r u using. how much you use depends on if u r using to raise ph as for africans or to raise hardness. I would say start with maybe 1.5 cups and test . you can always add more gradually to get to where you want it. put it in a nylon sock of some sort then into your filter.


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## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

I have a Fluval G6 filter (265 gph). I couldn't find crushed oyster shells so I got some crushed coral (i believe it's pretty much the same thing?). Basically I am trying to avoid the pH from dropping to the low 6's or below and trying to maintain it in the mid to high 6's.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I believe it will only raise PH\KH to a certain amount (while the PH is still acidic) and will stop once it's a base or alkaline. I put 2 cups of crushed coral in my 10g, and it was fine (you have to watch for build up on the coral though, or it won't dissolve).


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

Using a dolomitic source for raising GH is a little risky. What you are essentially doing is using an unsure amount of a potentially reactive material to prevent pH bounce. Buy a KH buffer and a GH buffer whatever they may be and you will know without a doubt exactly what you need to add and how long it will last. Using oyster shells or crushed coral is a temporary measure that is irregular and can be unpredictable. Plus it will only have a significant effect on water chemistry for a few months at best. 

It seems silly to me that people would evoke this much indecision and inaccuracy when dealing with their fish. Buffers are cheap, very concentrated and do exactly what they say they will. Which for the most part is the opposite of crushed coral.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

Oyster shell will give the pH an initial huge boost; even after being well washed. After the initial boost ( even a small amount can send pH into the 8's) it will stop the rapid dissolution and the remaining shell will not have a noticeable effect on the pH after water changes or aging of the water .. It will buffer the water to a fair extent.. As it goes acid , more shell ( or crushed coral) will dissolve; but not nearly as rapidly as at first . Both shell and crushed coral have been used for buffering since the aquarium hobby began to take notice of pH way back when. 
Oyster shell is usually carried anywhere they sell farm supplies. It is for supplying chickens and other feathered livestock a calcium supplement for better egg shell development.
A 50 pound ( about 22.5 Kg) bag should be between $12 and $15. Old time pH modifiers were Baking Soda ( calcium carbonate) to raise pH and buffer, and either phosphoric acid , or potassium phosphate to lower pH. Both solutions were only temporary as biological action in the tank would use up the temporary buffer. I suspect the newer whiz bang products offered in the pet stores aren't really much more effective than the old solutions. A little well aged coral or oyster shell in the filter or substrate should be a lot better long term buffer without all the measuring and dosing the others would require.
Just remember , the oyster shell as sold is very dirty and reactive because it is just that .. Oyster shell from shucked oyster production that has been crushed , dried and bagged. It has not been washed beyond that needed to clean the oysters before shucking in the fish packing plants.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I personally would not worry too much about the swing. But if you really want to buffer your pH and you do not change your water that often then may be an alkaline buffer or baking soda is an easier option for you? With crushed coral or aragonite or that type or things you need to find out the correct portion to use.

Once you use a buffer you should keep using it. What I mean is if your tap is 6.8, and you add some buffer into your water, your pH will go up, to say 7.6--as long as the buffers are sufficient between water changes it should stay around the new higher level (i.e. 7.6). When you do your next water change you need to keep the new water at 7.6 as well so you need to add the buffer again, after each water change, or else your water pH will drop by a large amount.

Having a big canister filter does not negate the need for frequent water changes for discus if they are still small and you want to grow them out, because no matter how big the canister or how high the flow rate may be, it is still a closed system so the old and dirty water is just being recirculated over and over again until you change your water. The water may look clean to us (due to mechanical and chemical filtration) but not to the discus. A larger canister can have deeper bio filtration, but it is not only nitrate that bothers them-- unless your filter can actually remove some of the dissolved organic from this closed system, you still need to do frequent water changes and service and clean your filter frequently if you want them to grow. Just my opinion.


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## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks guys. Basically my plan is to switch to one 50% water change per week (right now I am doing one every other day). These a 4.5" discus. I am also using the optional Tr-X cartridge on my filter that has nitrate and phosphate remover plus activated carbon. So my filter is taking out ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & phosphate. Technically those are all the bad compounds, what else is there in these organic wastes?


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

May be put a pre filter in your filter inlet, and rinse that more often? 
Just my own humble opinion that discus is not like most other fish as they prefer very clean water to grow. The brown stuff you see when you squeeze your sponge (or when you rinse your mechanical filter) and all the brown stuff you see between the bio balls sitting in the filter will make the water "dirty" for discus even if your nitrate level is very low. Those basically are rotten poop, uneaten food, and plant matters( if you have plants) and these rotten matters are being recirculated again and again in your tank until you service your filter. Also, at high temperature, with rotten matter in your tank/canister, bacteria can grow very fast which can cause sickness. 
But your discus are already at 4.5" so may be they are stronger than juvies and hence more immune to less frequent water change? I am not sure. 
The pH swing you are worried about is partly caused by nitrification in your tank. As the nitrifying bacteria converts ammonia to nitrite they will cause the pH to go down. So, keeping the ammonia level low can reduce this drop.
If your discus are light and appear to be all very active and eat very well then you are doing a great job and just keep it up. There are many ways to keep discus. I am just sharing what has worked for me but it is by no means the only or the best way. 
Wish you the best with your discus.


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## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

Fish rookie said:


> As the nitrifying bacteria converts ammonia to nitrite they will cause the pH to go down.


From what I understand it's the low mineral count in our water that cause the pH drop as the water cant buffer the acidity. Nitrifying bacteria also so tribute to this then?

Theoretically, the final byproduct of all the fish poop, dead plant matter etc. is ammonia. Theoretically the reason why water changes are done is to remove the nitrates in the water as this is the final by byproduct of the nitrogen cycle and nitrates cannot be broken down by any biological process (excluding plants). So, theoretically, if I manage/maintain my filter, I won't have to do any water changes if I can maintain my pH as it absorbs nitrates and phosphates (that contribute to algae growth)?

I can see why water changes are done as it's the simplest and cheapest way to maintain good water quality (one of these Tri-x cartridges cost $45 at the LFS (less online) and has to be replaced every month). I am not saying I don't want to do water changes, I will be doing at least one 50% water change a week regardless. But am I missing something here? Is my theory wrong? Any thoughts?


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

What nitrate test kits cannot measure are dissolved organic compounds - as fish rookie alluded to, the rotting stuff in filters ie. food, wastes, organic material all contributes to dissolved organic compounds. With discus, the lower the better. The nitrogen cycle will absorb carbonates which can create a pH crash. Frequent water changes removes the organic compounds and will help avoid pH crashes. You could get a doc meter to measure, but IMO it's overkill unless discus is your livelihood. Just watch your fish, they will tell you what they need, and practice good husbandry.

What I used to use are crushed aragonite for pH buffering. It maintains a steady pH of 7.6. I found it more consistent then crushed coral.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Aquacrazed said:


> From what I understand it's the low mineral count in our water that cause the pH drop as the water cant buffer the acidity. Nitrifying bacteria also so tribute to this then?


Yes, the nitrifying reaction will cause the pH to go down. If you have a sufficient amount of carbonate ion (I think OH can also do that but it will not raise the kH) in the tank you can buffer the drop. As you said, our water is very low in mineral so this drop cannot be buffered without additional ions.



Aquacrazed said:


> Theoretically, the final byproduct of all the fish poop, dead plant matter etc. is ammonia.


Please correct me if I am wrong. It is my understanding that there are other bacteria, other than nitrifying bacteria, that can decompose the fish poop, uneaten food, and other waste. Ammonia is a product that is released in the tank; I am not sure if it is the end product. It is also my understanding that if the pollutant does not contain any nitrogen atom it will not be directly involved in the nitrogen cycle. Examples of these products are sugar, carbohydrate, and some fats. These pollutants will still rot in your tank but they do not contain nitrogen so they will not produce ammonia directly. Some other bacteria will feed on these, and they do contribute to your overall bio-load.



Aquacrazed said:


> Theoretically the reason why water changes are done is to remove the nitrates in the water as this is the final by byproduct of the nitrogen cycle and nitrates cannot be broken down by any biological process (excluding plants).


It is my humble opinion that water change is done for many benefits such as to remove pollutants (nitrate being one of them), to replenish oxygen, to restore redox balance, and it can also reduce the number of pathogen/bacteria that might be in the water, as well as many other benefits.

Nitrate can actually be broken down to nitrogen gas via anaerobic reaction. Usually, the group of bacteria responsible for this reaction is referred to as denitrifying bacteria. Hydrogen sulphite can be a by-product of this reaction if this reaction takes place totally devoid of oxygen (e.g. deep sand bed).



Aquacrazed said:


> So, theoretically, if I manage/maintain my filter, I won't have to do any water changes if I can maintain my pH as it absorbs nitrates and phosphates (that contribute to algae growth)?
> 
> I can see why water changes are done as it's the simplest and cheapest way to maintain good water quality (one of these Tri-x cartridges cost $45 at the LFS (less online) and has to be replaced every month). I am not saying I don't want to do water changes, I will be doing at least one 50% water change a week regardless. But am I missing something here? Is my theory wrong? Any thoughts?


I am no expert but I see water change as a very important part of discus keeping. Having said there I am sure there are many other methods out that that also work very well.

I think whether you can just manage your filter to avoid water change depends on many factors, one being the type of filter you have--if your filter is not a closed system as most canisters are, and if your filter water volume is very large, then you can possibly just change the water in your filter and be done with it. But going back to the points I was trying to bring forth, nitrate and phosphate are not the only pollutants in the tank, and it is my opinion that water change is not just about reducing nitrate, so I have to respectfully disagree with your notion that if you can absorb nitrate and phosphate you do not need to do any water change as long as your ph can be maintained. Nevertheless, some fish might be very forgiving and do not mind a high level of pollutant in your tank so it is possible to keep certain fish without having to change water frequently.

But the bottom line is if your discus are happy then that is all that matters. There are many ways to keep them happy. Usually discus keepers would advocate changing lots of water, but it is possible that there are other ways to achieve the same result without doing that as our technology is getting more and more advanced every day, and there are many methods out there. I wish you great success and please keep us posted.


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## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

Fish rookie, you make some good points here. Ok, so the other pollutants are sugar, carbohydrate and fats. How are these added to the water though?

There is an interesting video at 



 (go to 6:45) and this guy who is an aquarium owner that also seems like a discus expert talks about his display tank that's been up for 6 years and he's only done 10 water changes. He is using a Refugium filtration system that basically absorbs nitrates in addition to the other stuff like ammonia & nitrites that are absorbed/broken down by standard filters. The discus in the tank look very healthy.

As they say, there are many ways to skin a cat. The simplest way is to do water changes, but can technology solve this problem and be as good or even better than doing water changes?


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

The pollutants are, in my opinion, all the stuff that is rotting in your closed system. 
Pollutants that do not contain the nitrogen atom will not be directly involved in the nitrogen cycle, a lot of food and such contain such ingredients.
The video is not about using a canister filter, plus even he said he cleans his filter socks once a week. The filter sock traps a lot of the stuff that could rot in the tank if they are not removed. I have suggested you to use a prefilter for the same reason. The volume of water in his refugium has to be much bigger than a Fluval G6. The benefit is not just about absorbing nitrate and phosphate. For one thing, a refugium has a lot more gas exchange than a regular canister can ever have. It is also much easier to keep it clean. If you have something like that and it is large enough I think you can possibly just clean and change the water in the refugium to keep your tank water clean. From what I have read people with sump still do regular big water changes with discus. What this guy is doing is not the norm. I think he sells the refugium, doesn't he?
I have read some people keeping discus in really big sumps with only foams with great success, but water is still being changed regularly.
If a new technology has been developed in a filter that can keep your water clean enough for your discus continuously fro a long time, it still does not mean we can replace water change entirely, in my opinion. For one thing, as discus grow they will use up minerals in the water column for their growth and you need new water to replenish the loss of these minerals. So, if you want to grow your discus you need to change your water often. There are much more to clean water for discus than just nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and phosphate. At least that is what I believe. 
Some people have been using a drip system that has worked very well for them in keeping discus. But a drip system is not a closed system, which is what we have been discussing.
The proof is in the pudding. You can try your method and then post some pictures of your discus after a few months. Your way may work very well. Good luck.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Actually I am just thinking if you want to reduce pH from going down too much without doing a lot of water changes may be a refugium is really not a bad idea. The Co2 in the water can be absorbed by the plants in the refugium and also through gas exchang in the sump, will this work?...can any refugium user confirm, please?

Have you considered using a sump or a refugium?


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## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

It's possible he is exaggerating about the water changes since he does seem to be selling the refugium. Later on in the video he talks about the maintenance of the refugium and looks like it involves more work than doing the water changes!



Fish rookie said:


> For one thing, as discus grow they will use up minerals in the water column for their growth and you need new water to replenish the loss of these minerals. So, if you want to grow your discus you need to change your water often. There are much more to clean water for discus than just nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and phosphate. At least that is what I believe.


From what I understand, in their natural environment, there are almost no minerals (conductivity from 6-12 µS/cm). Our water although considered very low in minerals has more minerals than this. I remember my filter reading 60 µS/cm when I first filled it up and that was with gravel. So I would think minerals are not so important for discus?

I've looked into the drip system and it's just messy and there are a lot of chances for leaks and spills.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Aquacrazed said:


> It's possible he is exaggerating about the water changes since he does seem to be selling the refugium. Later on in the video he talks about the maintenance of the refugium and looks like it involves more work than doing the water changes!
> 
> From what I understand, in their natural environment, there are almost no minerals (conductivity from 6-12 µS/cm). Our water although considered very low in minerals has more minerals than this. I remember my filter reading 60 µS/cm when I first filled it up and that was with gravel. So I would think minerals are not so important for discus?
> 
> I've looked into the drip system and it's just messy and there are a lot of chances for leaks and spills.


That is a very interesting point and honestly I am not sure how much or how important is minerals to growth.
I do know that for domestic discus they would be used to local water condition of which they were bred, not the water parameters in the amazon. Also, Germany and Asia have very different water parameters. I do not have any experience with keeping German discus but I would assume that they may feel more comfortable with hard water since they were raised in hard water.
Some people believe minerals in water has no effect on growth but some people believe they do. I think the difference lies in how much, if any, do we believe discus can absorb minerals through their gills and osmoregulation.
In this Tony Tan interview video (Tony Tan Discus Breeder - Interview.wmv - YouTube), at 3:44, he mentioned that his ph is 6-6.5 and his conductivity is 20-30µS/cm.
His water does seem to be very soft. If my estimation is correct (I use .67 as the factor) his TDS is less than 20 ppm. 
My tap's TDS is 0-5ppm so his water is slightly harder than mine but not by much.
On a side note, your tap water probably has less than 60µS/cm. This reading may have something to do with other ions present in the tank. 
On the other hand, I have reads may articles which stated that calcium and magnesium are very important for growing out discus. I have also heard that discus in ON on average grow faster than in BC due to the softer water that we have. 
It is a rather controversial topic. I add calcium and magnesium to my water column but I have not done any control so I do not know for sure.
Nevertheless, I do know that mineral ions will affect the redox balance of water and that is important. Moreover, as I said earlier water change is needed to remove pollutants since pollutants do not decompose to just nitrate and phosphate and then absorbed by your filter cartilage, if they are not removed they will rot in your tank and that can stress out your discus.
I was only stating one of the many problems we may face if we think that we can replace water change with some filter that can absorb a large amount of nitrate and phosphate. If you have a planted tank, then the amount of minerals in your water would definitely need to be replenished if you want them to grow very well for you.
Thank you for this very interesting discussion. 
Good luck with your discus.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

If you go to simplydiscus and talk to those guys most of them believe that minerals are essential for growth and that minerals will get depleted as time goes by. I am not saying I agree with them but there is certainly a school of thought that believes in this.
I think Malaysia discus are used to very soft water but I wonder just because they are used to a low concentration of mineral does not mean mineral is not important, does it? It certainly does not imply that minerals will not get depleted over time. Perhaps they obtain more minerals through their food but there may still be a certain amount of minerals they can obtain through osmosis.
But as I said if you feel that your way should work very well the best way to find out is to try it first hand. 
I have always believe in changing lots of water and all successful discus keepers I have personally met and talked to also believe in and practice the same thing. That is not to say this is the best way but this is the only way I have tried that really works for me. Since I have never tried to raise discus without doing much water change, I have nothing else I can add on this topic I am afraid.
Going back to your original question I personally do not think a gradual drop of pH would affect your discus but if you want to use a buffer probably baking soda or seachem alkaline buffer is easier to use since you know how much you need to add. 
I have seen some experience fish keepers who just place some oyster shells on the bottom and let them slowly dissolve. 
You can always try different things out to see which one works for you.
Please post picture of your tank when you are done and keep us posted on your progress. I would be looking forward to that. If this works, I, and I think many others, will definitely be buying this filter even though it is expensive.
Thank you for a great discussion. Good luck.

P.S. I am very sorry I have made a mistake. In the Tony Tan discus video, he was referring to the hardness and pH for his breeding pairs. For his regular farm, I found the discus parameters provided by Jeffery Tan on simply discus and they are PH 6.5-7, and conductivity 90-120 micro siemens. This is still soft but is harder than our water. 90-120 micro siemens is approximately 58-77 ppm (TDS), or 3.25-4.3 dH. This is still quite a bit harder than our tap water, which basically has TDS reading under 10ppm and a general hardness of 0 dH.
If we make the assumption that Malaysian discus are generally raised in a similar condition as what Jeffery Tan stated, then we can also assume they are raised in water with more minerals than what we have out of our tap. 
For me to increase my hardness from zero out of my tap to 3 dGh, I usually need to add 2-3 tsp of equilibrium (for every 50 gallon).


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## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

My tanks water conductivity seems to be in the 100 - 140 µS/cm range. When I do a 50% water change it drops to around a 100 µS/cm and then keeps going up. So you add equilibrium to your discus tank after every water change? I have a small tub of it but I was looking for a more natural source since I had a bad experience with it once (maybe I added too much, I was going by the dosage instructions on the label) with some of my other fish. 2-3 tsp for 50g is quite a bit less than the recommended dosage.

I honestly think there is a lack of understanding/lack of research in the water chemistry especially for discus and this is why water changes are done, it's the easy way out. I think it would make a really good research paper topic (maybe it's already been done?).


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Are you adding other staff into your water? Conductivity tests all ions in your water. Also, if yours is not a barebottom tank it is a different story because lots of things could get trapped in the gravel. What about tap, what is your conductivity out of your tap?
If you cannot test conductivity out of your tap you can test the general hardness then convert it, I think the factor is .056 or something like that.
Yes, my dosage is much less than the recommended portion for equilibrium on the label. I tested how much I needed to raise my hardness and then I test my water with a TDS meters after each water change to confirm. This is what I would like to recommend you to do with crushed coral or whatever you want to use. You need to check because mineral do get depleted. 
Discus is a new fish that has only been around since the 60's. You are right people still do not know much about it and most of what we do is based on success from trial and error of people before us. I have read a lot about discus keeping yet even for something as simple as diet requirement there are conflicting opinions. We are all learning as we go along. I feel very fortunate that I can ask Rick whenever I have some questions and he always takes his time to answer me. In some parts of the world it is like searching in the dark for some discus keepers, who can only gather their information from books and the internet.
There are different opinions on many things regarding discus and many methods are proven to work well. For example, going back to the issue of minerals, Rick does not add any mineral but his discus are very healthy and colorful. His method obviously works. 
Rick does 100% water changes daily on all his tanks. That is very expensive and takes lots of time for the amount of water he needs to change. I have a lot of respect for his dedication. If there is a better method that can achieve same or better result I am sure him and many discus breeders would be using it.
A lot of people have tried to find a shortcut to water change and many filtration systems have been invented with the objective of replacing or reducing the amount of water change needed. 
I must respectfully disagree that water change is the easy way out; if there is a better way I would be the first to switch so I can save time and money and energy. It takes a lot of discipline and dedication to perform water change every day for many months even years no matter what. Hot water is very expensive in Canada.
The best and only way to proof that it works is to actually use it on some discus and document it with a journal. If it does work, it would be very informative and educational for all of us. 
I have seen some automatic system that work quite well (discus were all thick and round and eating great). Some people have reported success with a drip system. So, there are certainly more than one way to do it.
Good luck. Please keep us posted.



Aquacrazed said:


> My tanks water conductivity seems to be in the 100 - 140 µS/cm range. When I do a 50% water change it drops to around a 100 µS/cm and then keeps going up. So you add equilibrium to your discus tank after every water change? I have a small tub of it but I was looking for a more natural source since I had a bad experience with it once (maybe I added too much, I was going by the dosage instructions on the label) with some of my other fish. 2-3 tsp for 50g is quite a bit less than the recommended dosage.
> 
> I honestly think there is a lack of understanding/lack of research in the water chemistry especially for discus and this is why water changes are done, it's the easy way out. I think it would make a really good research paper topic (maybe it's already been done?).


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## Aquacrazed (Jun 3, 2013)

Yes I have gravel, plants and driftwood in my tank, it's a display tank so that's why my conductivity is a bit high, however there is almost no KH and around 10ppm ish GH.

hm... maybe I will try out equilibrium with those low doses and see how that works out.

When I say easy way out, what I mean is people don't really understand the science behind it, it has been proven to work, so they just do it. It's like waay back in the day when people figured out that adding manure to plants/crops made them grow faster but they had no idea why they were growing so fast - same thing with discus water changes.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Equilibrium will not buffer your ph drop though; to buffer pH, I used to add about 1 tsp of baking soda for 15 gallon and my pH stayed at just above 7--but you need to check yours because your tank condition is different. How fast pH drops really comes down to how much nitrification is taking place, how much Co2 is produced and things like that.

kH and pH are usually related but you can use something with the OH- ion to buffer pH without increasing kH.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Wild discus also grow very slow. I was told by Oliver
Lucansus thst a 3.5 inch wild is most likely
Already a couple years old. Also they have larger eye to
Body ratio. 
I also agree thst German discus have
Been raised at huge gh and hk and don't like our water as much. They pepper lait more in our water . They don't grow as fast either.
I'd say lose the canister, use a sponge and do wcs. Then you know how much detritus, waste, etc is in your tank and know you need a wc. Either that or rinse your canister every 10 days or so. 
The breeders in Asia do 100 percent wc a day and thst is how they get fast growth and good eye to body ratio. 
The one thin you have to realize with our water is our ph is not consistant day to day. 
Also depends how stocked the tanks are. Their tanks are stocked tightly so they need the large wcs. 
Everyone has different preferences and ideas. I've tried a lot if different things . Some worked , some did t. 
I tried a sump, didn't get good results. And I don't like the idea of a canister as the munge is still there circulating. An aqua clear would be
Better as more visible and easier to maintain. Having two sponges or filters is good
As you can alternate cleaning. 
The main factor in big fst healthy discus is consistency. Same schedule, in wc, feeding times and parameters. 
My friend in oz is one of the best breeders and he is as scheduled as a train. SMe feed times daily and wc amounts and same time daily. He's been doing it for about 30 years and with great success. He also said keep your gh at 3 if you can. 
The refugium I always wanted to do but as said you need to keep the uneaten food etc from getting in there. 



Sent by tapatalk in north Burnaby


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

April,
From what I read on simplydiscus from Jeffery Tan regarding the water parameters with ipdiscus, it sounds like their hardness is around 3-4 dH as well.
I think overcrowding seems to help with feeding for faster growth, too. But then big water changes really needs to be done frequently.
I have two sponges now, and I unplug them to my air tube then I squeeze both of them in my tank while I suck out all the water. You said to rotate cleaning them are you saying just squeeze one; not both, during water chnage?
Thank you.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

If concerned about
Losing too much good bacteria then alternate. I'd squeeze them in your discard water or bucket instead of tank. 


Sent by tapatalk in north Burnaby


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

why would you squeeze your stock in tank? If you are concerned about losing bacteria, use tank water in a bucket to squeeze your sponge in.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Okay, I am just being lazy.  Thanks.
I suck the water into a bucket but I have a sump pump in the bucket which pumps the dirty water outside. I do not want to rinse the sponge in the bucket where the sump pump sits, as I sometimes drain other tank water into this bucket as well, and there are bits of beefheart mix and food and things like that. I also am not sure if the sump pump would leech oil into the water. 
I am too lazy to get another bucket and I thought since I drain all the water anyway and I squeeze the sponges twice a day so it is never that dirty it should be fine.
What is the problem with squeezing it in the tank?


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Well if your squeezing them twice a day then no big deal but then mays well just have an air stone. Your collecting stuff in the sponge then sending it back in the tank . : ) 


Sent by tapatalk in north Burnaby


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

April said:


> Well if your squeezing them twice a day then no big deal but then mays well just have an air stone. Your collecting stuff in the sponge then sending it back in the tank . : )
> 
> Sent by tapatalk in north Burnaby


Airstones were what I used to have but now I am trying to cycle the tank so I put the sponge inside. It is taking forever to cycle with frequent water change. I am going to disney with the kid this summer so i need to have the tank cycled. LOL. I cannot ask someone else to to 100% water change twice a day for me. LOL
Water change was much faster when I did not have any bio filtration. It was so simple.
Now I usually spend my time wiping the whole tank once the siphon is set up. Then I squeeze the sponges and move the siphon over to suck out the dirt from the sponges. After the discus are all flat on the floor not moving, I add some sodium thiosulphate and start to fill the tank up. I leave the siphon in the tank to suck out whatever I see until it is 1/4 full then I remove the siphon and add prime. I can finish water change in less than 30 min. Before I added the sponge I could watch a bit more TV when the water was sucked out; now I only watch TV when the water is being filled because I need to squeeze and suck out water from the sponges. Using another bucket would cut out even more TV time for me. Lol
I make a lot of splash when I fill up the tank so I do not have much chlorine entering the tank anyway. I used to use only sodium thiosulphate when I had no biofiltration but now I add prime since I am trying to cycle. I figure one month might be enough to cycle the tank; if not we will see. I soak the sponge in stability.
I feed twice a day and I change 100% water twice a day about an hour after each feeding. I leave no food in the tank at night. My sponges are really not that dirty although I still squeeze them quite a few times from all angles during water changes, usually nothing dirty comes out after 2 squeezes. The bacteria can sort of glue themselves to the sponge and will not easily get squeezed out, is that right?


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd say if you keep squeezing thry will take forever to cycle. Your fish are old
Enough you could cut down to one wc a day


Sent by tapatalk in north Burnaby


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

The bacteria are in the filter sponge and to a lesser extent on the surfaces of the aquarium itself and any plants/ decorations you may have in the tank. There is nearly none in the water itself .. By continuously squeezing out the contents of the sponge, you are defeating yourself as far as getting the tank cycled is concerned..The filter is at its most efficient at removing ammonia and nitrites when it is nearly plugged with bacteria and broken down wastes. As long as you don't overfeed so there is not an excess of uneaten food in the tank, you won't foul the water. Never expose the filter sponges to chlorinated water. The chlorine kills bacteria and from the sounds of you method of water changing/ sponge cleaning you are killing off a large portion of the bacteria you want to keep.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Yes, you are right. Dave. I think I do not really have much to feed to the bacteria to being with. But it is not a big deal.  I will figure something out. Thanks a lot for the advice. My tank is weird I know.
Sorry for going off topic.
About keeping gH and kH up, I want to say that calcium carbonate is a good option. The calcium will keep up the gH and the carbonate will buffer the pH from dropping.
You can buy arogonite which is basically calcium carbonate but you need to find out the right portion to use.


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