# Customer service: Ehiem Vs. Hagen



## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

I just thought I share my recent experience with both these companies, Ehiem and Hagen.

The other day I was looking through my bin of equipment, hoping to find a usable heater. I came across a broken Ehiem Jager 250W and a broken Hagen Elite 300W heater. Both heaters are around 5-6 years old and has been broken for awhile.

It felt like such a waste to just throw them out so I decided to fire off an email to each company to see if I am lucky enough to get them to replace it or repair it even though it was definitely out of the warranty period. 

The good news was both companies replied to me within 5 hours and both companies offered a replacement for free. The only bad news was Ehiem needed a proof of purchase (in this case, a receipt) in order for them to process the exchange. Unfortunately, the Jager was bought at King Ed's and King Ed just types in the prices of their items with no real indication of what the product was, so it was next to impossible for me to dig up and identify a receipt that I likely threw away the day I bought the heater. Hagen, on the other hand, was quick to tell me to send it off to their offices in Quebec and have it replaced free of charge with no further documentation. 

I guess you can look at this experience in two ways. You can say Hagen has awesome customer service and ehiem has "ok" service OR you can look at it as a story to remind yourself to keep all your receipts for as long as your product is physically present =)

Either way, it looks like i'll have one of my two broken heaters revived =)


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## Raf (Nov 6, 2010)

kinda cheating the system IMO....


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## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

Raf said:


> kinda cheating the system IMO....


How is it cheating the system? Exactly what is the system lol


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

Strange that they would offer a replacement for it...so therefore buying one heater from eithier company means you can get replacements for life? Interesting :0


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

For alot of companies out there, they are more than happy to take care of a customer who actually has taken the time to contact them. In those cases, its worth their while to do it. Just common good business sense. I've dealt with Hydor a couple of times and they are fantastic as are Deltec. Good reputation is worth more than a few bucks. From a consumers point of view, it never hurts to ask.


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## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

I had another experience with hagen where they sent me replacement diaphragms for my broken air pump. Rena also sent me a part for free that I was missing when I bought a used XP3. Generally, big companies are willing to take care of customers who have invested money into their product


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## hlee72ca (Jun 29, 2010)

Hagen is well known for their customer service.


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## Sprucegruve (Apr 11, 2011)

everyone of those companies mentioned are great with comoster service IMO.
but i keep all my receipts


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## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

Just a quick update. Hagen emailed me today and informed me that the heater that I sent to them was broken in half. I had it shipped via xpresspost of Canada Post in a bubble envelope that they told me to use instead of the box that I originally brought in. Another thing to learn from this is to never ship anything made out of glass in a bubble envelope and to never listen to Canada Post. 

Anyways, they wanted to test the heater to make sure it was broken before issuing a replacement, but obviously with the damage it was impossible for them to do. The good news is that they are still willing to replace it for me.

GO HAGEN!


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

this is what creeps me out about the aquarium industry. if this was a discussion about a car or television or nearly anything else available to the consumer, the manufacturer would tell you to bugger off. but here we have a case of two product grossly out of warranty being replaced. Does no ones else see the ramifications throughout the industry because of this ? 

i agree with raf. 

this may seem like and awesome score ... but there is no such thing as something for nothing.


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## Illbuyourcatfish (Jun 3, 2010)

I've had a couple companys send me free items just for contacting them to let them know how pleased I was with one of their products. Giving products for free doesn't hurt these companies especially considering the profit they make on these products.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Algae Beater said:


> this is what creeps me out about the aquarium industry. if this was a discussion about a car or television or nearly anything else available to the consumer, the manufacturer would tell you to bugger off. but here we have a case of two product grossly out of warranty being replaced. Does no ones else see the ramifications throughout the industry because of this ?
> 
> i agree with raf.
> 
> this may seem like and awesome score ... but there is no such thing as something for nothing.


a car, or even a television is costly. A heater is not. This is not a very good comparison.

I disagree with you about this something for nothing. Just look at how many views this post has generate and Hagen is getting free advertisement by just giving out a free heater.

Now I am not saying everyone has a broken heater should send it in. But with receipt and within the period of warranty, people should try. And Hagen can easily say the heater is not falling into warranty condition and therefore, not replacing it. The sender still needs to use his own money to send it in without knowing if it is going to be replace or not. People also have taken in that as consideration.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

+1 with Charles' comments. 
Riddle me this, riddle me that: The question to ask now for Victor is how likely will he buy a Hagen product in the future compared to a Eheim? 

The lesson in this fable is that Hagen clearly values their customer satisfaction more than the replacement cost.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I agree with Ming and Charles. Hagen obviously feels there is value for them. Otherwise, they would tell Victor nicely to take a hike.


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

See past the immediate obviousness here, hagen is a large company ... VERY large. heaters are inexpensive yes, but they add up. Try returning a set of $30 headphones after 6 years, or a DVD after 6 years. get my drift? the points with the cars and tvs were examples, maybe poor ones in reference to overall cost, but the principle is the same 

Advertising is one thing, but so is gullibility, and negative advertising. yes they helped out and sent you a new heater, but the thing was six years old and useless. giving away heaters in the name of customer service will quickly erode your finances. Especially if everyone with a hagen heater wants it replaced. this is about principle, not an individual case.

people who expect large corporations to give them things for free because they are large and successful is the funniest thing i have heard in awhile. the only reason situations such as this even exist is because of forums where negative press from preposterous situations such as this (item out of warranty) usually result in negative comments. 


this is an opinion, don't take offence t comes from 15 years in the industry at various levels of the global supply network.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

On the day we speak of Hagen's great quality customer service, my condolences to Rolf C. Hagen. Passed on today.

Rolf C. Hagen


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

agreed ^^^

a great man for our industry has passed, may he rest peacefully


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Good debate. Here's Jobber604's business school of thought.



Algae Beater said:


> See past the immediate obviousness here, hagen is a large company ... VERY large. heaters are inexpensive yes, but they add up. Try returning a set of $30 headphones after 6 years, or a DVD after 6 years. get my drift? the points with the cars and tvs were examples, maybe poor ones in reference to overall cost, but the principle is the same.


Hagen is a large company with many subsidiary entities and the aquarium industry is all buy one of there specialties. With all amount of heaters that they sell, only a handful get returned (Don't count the Marineland Stealth Pro fiasco). You can look at it through set of eyes:
1.) They sent Victor the new heater in goodwill to a loyal Hagen customer after the product failed on him after 6 years of use. 
2.) They sent Victor the new heater because they new something was wrong with their old heaters after 6 years of use.

How many people out of the thousands that bought the heaters from 6 years ago to now would ask Hagen for a replacement. How many sample heaters does Hagen give out as a marketing tool to get product exposure?

The main point I get from this scenario is that the company was willing to OWN up to it's product quality and make a Hagen end-user very happy (I assume Victor is quite happy).

The obvious is really a difference in business philosophy and school of thought (Example: the recent discussion between LFS business practices etc etc).

Cut costs in the short term, by saving on sending out a heater to an end-user (Victor). Query and ask for a receipt as means to validate the purchase, nothing wrong with this.
OR
Marketing through goodwill customer service and word of mouth. Send out the heater (which costs next to nothing since they're made in China), forego the short-term gain for long-term customer loyalty. No hassle guaranteed of product without querying about a receipt.



Algae Beater said:


> Advertising is one thing, but so is gullibility, and negative advertising. yes they helped out and sent you a new heater, but the thing was six years old and useless. giving away heaters in the name of customer service will quickly erode your finances. Especially if everyone with a hagen heater wants it replaced. this is about principle, not an individual case.


Marketing, advertising, customer services are an art form in manipulating human purchasing behaviour. A medium to facilitate sales. It's not negative advertising. That's very arrogant to suggest even that. I see it as passive marketing. Clever and proactive in making sure you satisfy your customer. It's not like it's being abused, otherwise, Hagen wouldn't be given them out without hassle.

Tell me how selling 100,000 heaters, costs $5 to make, at a MSRP of say $20 (Elite submersible, not the Fluval top of line ones that sell for $50), then give out about, oh say....10,000 valued at cost.

Example: 
Revenue (100,000 x $20)..........$2,000,000
Expenses:
COGS (100,000 x $5).............. $500,000

Gross margin:.........................$1,500,000 before incurring direct and indirect expenses.

And this is only the cheapest line of heaters they sell. I've very certain they're very very very financially stable in order to offer such a guaranteeing customer service.

Giving heaters away in this scenario is only about a few thousand, and not a total recall of the product. How would you explain coke and pepsi giving out samples of their cans of pop? Or sample of TIDE detergent in the mail. if they're not in it for the money, they wouldn't apply such policies.

It's part of marketing and cost of conducting business. The principle being that Hagen applies it's customer service policy at a high standard.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Algae Beater said:


> people who expect large corporations to give them things for free because they are large and successful is the funniest thing i have heard in awhile. the only reason situations such as this even exist is because of forums where negative press from preposterous situations such as this (item out of warranty) usually result in negative comments.


Do you know how much negative publicity can harm your business? Look into the recall for Marineland Stealth Pro heaters. If Victor continues to use that heater and it explodes in his tank and it's just so happen it's a Hagen heater....what are the potential costs for that? The opportunity costs associate with this situation would offset the original costs for marketing and cost to future sales, and maybe potential litigation. All for what? not willing to replace a heater which costs the company $5 to make..ok, let's make it $10. It's just corporate suicide.

Look at the big picture. Corporations look at the big picture by building upon years of good customer service. That's why they're successful for what they do.

If people are calling and asking for replacement products for a specific item, would you not think that Hagen's would put one and one together and say, "hey, there may be a quality issue with this product, let's remedy this instead of just letting it blow up like that Marineland recall"

Companies spend most of their expenses on R&D and marketing. Big profiteering companies like Apple, Nike,.....they're company was built on marketing. It's being smart and knowing how and when to market which makes marketing a very powerful business tool in expanding and maintaining your business. Without it, you mind as well declare bankruptcy and prepare for receivership.



Algae Beater said:


> This is an opinion, don't take offence t comes from 15 years in the industry at various levels of the global supply network.


No offence taken since you've been in logistics at various levels for the past 15 years. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect each person's philosophy in business school of thought.

Someone once said, "A good auditor isn't one that just makes sure debits matches with credits, it's about looking at the big picture and finding ways to adapt to your business environment."

At the end of the day, Hagen spent $5 to market on a fish hobby forum, BCA. Smart. Very smart.


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

I do not need lessons on basic marketing and / or balancing finances. I am not talking about a sample like coke or detergent , or a defective product that blows up aquariums. I am talking about a purchased product that was used and lived out its expected life. Hagen’s PREMIUM line of heaters has a 5 year warranty. The entry level line is far below that. This is about getting something for free … I’m nearly certain that if the heater wasn’t destroyed it would have not have been such a smooth process. Especially if the invoice stated it was 5 years old. 

I do warranties for product … everyday and abuse or neglect is a very common practice in this hobby. We live in an economic system that is based on designed obsolescence. You by something for a finite number of years and then buy something new. You don’t expect something for free based on some tangent of marketing or keeping customers happy. 

Advertising like this would make a Hagen product irritating for a store to carry, with a slurry of old heaters appearing out of warranty with their owners expecting new ones for nothing. What kind of message does THAT send to a BC aquarium forum? That Hagen is daft? That they give stuff away regardless of age or warranty status, improper use, or flat out abuse? 

Litigation would not exist for this case. The product was out of warranty and use and/or conditions would not be provable. Marineland recalled their heaters to avoid a barrage of people filing suit in the future. IE a refund for everyone’s heater is cheaper than X number of lawsuits. The initial problems were on their new line which was WELL in warranty. Random occurances do occur but in general on something like this they are expected to break. At the end of the day it is a coil carrying a current … it will fail its simply a matter of build quality and treatment Hagen’s heaters are not exploding and burning down houses to the best of my knowledge. If they were, they would certainly have the product and means to deal with it.

Hagen is the LARGEST pet product company in the world, PERIOD marketting now is is like advertising for the sun, everyone sees it, everyone knows its there so further marketting with the exception of advertising new products seems rather trite. They make good product and proctect it by not giving it away and regulating its pricing. It maintains their share in the marketplace and keeps the value of the product high.


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## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

Algae Beater said:


> I'm nearly certain that if the heater wasn't destroyed it would have not have been such a smooth process. Especially if the invoice stated it was 5 years old.


There's a few things I have to clarify. When I emailed both companies, never did I once mention anything about a replacement. All I said was I had a heater that no longer functioned and asked what my options are and if a repair was possible.

Secondly, in my email I included the fact that the heater is around 5 years old and that I was aware that it was not in warranty

Lastly, a replacement was offered from the start, but they just wanted the heater to make sure it was dead. On top of that, I did have to pay for shipping out of my own pocket. A heater to Quebec (Hagen head office) is $22 box via express post, which is more than what I paid for the heater brand new



Algae Beater said:


> You don't expect something for free based on some tangent of marketing or keeping customers happy.


I don't


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## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

Algae Beater said:


> See past the immediate obviousness here, hagen is a large company ... VERY large. heaters are inexpensive yes, but they add up. Try returning a set of $30 headphones after 6 years, or a DVD after 6 years. get my drift? the points with the cars and tvs were examples, maybe poor ones in reference to overall cost, but the principle is the same


I've dealt with warranties a lot in my time when I use to work at Best Buy and processed a lot of warranties. You would be surprised how far manufacturers would go to keep their existing clients happy. Why else do you think most people run away from extended warranties?

Have you ever shopped at Costco? Look at their return policy. Do you think they are able to offer this almost infinite warranty without the support of the manufacturers? Heck no

The point is, what makes any company successful is by creating a lot of returning customers, not new ones.


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## Jasonator (Jul 12, 2011)

It is an awesome score. And if every second buyer returned an old or broken heater, the manufacturer(s) would surely change some key parameters in their return/exchange policies, as they would be out of cash pretty dam quick. However, if a few get by on the sly, it really pays off replacing and really going out of their way to make someone happy. 
Out of all the replies to this thread, not everybody who read it, replied. - that's a lot of face time for the names Hagen and Eheim. These big companies don't do anything that doesn't benefit them.

Their goal .... The word of mouth thing really works! and a tiny example is - let's say, thirty people reading this, will buy Hagen or Eheim, instead of other manufacturers.

If I received free stuff from a preferred company, I would sleep well at night.

and that's all I have to say about that


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Came across this from the past, then again, it's always case to case, person to person, item to item:
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/equipment-talk-section-14/eheim-service-sucks-1706/


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## Raf (Nov 6, 2010)

Ridiculous! So he wants money because he broke the heater! 

Also, sounds like he had the plastic holder around the element portion which is incorrect anyways...it would not melt if placed higher up on the heater as normal....


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## Acipenser (Apr 21, 2010)

I bought a 1/2 liter of "the udder guy's Ice cream " from Thrifty foods 2 years ago, found that the Ice Cream had melted and had been refrozen. Major Nasty crystalized premium ice cream. Fired off an email to them and thrifty foods ! Got an email back from them they had tracked the shipment and found that the trucking company admitted to a broken reefer, They changed trucking companies and sent me $100 in Thrifty Foods Gift Cards ! Thanked me for taking the time to let them know !


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## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

Acipenser said:


> I bought a 1/2 liter of "the udder guy's Ice cream " from Thrifty foods 2 years ago, found that the Ice Cream had melted and had been refrozen. Major Nasty crystalized premium ice cream. Fired off an email to them and thrifty foods ! Got an email back from them they had tracked the shipment and found that the trucking company admitted to a broken reefer, They changed trucking companies and sent me $100 in Thrifty Foods Gift Cards ! Thanked me for taking the time to let them know !


LOL, that's pretty awesome

I thought you were being sarcastic at first


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## Victor (Apr 21, 2010)

Raf said:


> Ridiculous! So he wants money because he broke the heater!
> 
> Also, sounds like he had the plastic holder around the element portion which is incorrect anyways...it would not melt if placed higher up on the heater as normal....


Well, it's hard to say..

In that story, it seems like a safety feature malfunctioned as well


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## big_bubba_B (Apr 25, 2010)

this is not fish stuff but i had an otter box for my bb torch and it kept on cracking everytime it did i sent a email to otterbox and they sent me a new one no questions asked.


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