# I need help from someone who KNOWS sumps inside and out - an expert



## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

I will describe my setup as best I can, and I would like someone to tell me what I could be doing differently, that would benefit the fish. Although I havent had a fish death since July, I feel I could be doing better.

I have 75 gallon drilled tank with a 30 gallon sump underneath. The 75 houses my Blackbelt, a RBP, and an apple snail. It also has a heater and a bubbler.

The downpipe from the 75 goes to the first of 3 compartments in the sump. That compartment houses 2 plecos, 2 apple snails, and 1 random snail that comes and goes through all 3 compartments and I dont know where he came from, but sometimes I see him going UP the downpipe (probably to get the green algae that grows in there).

The water in the first compartment then travels to the 2nd compartment by going under the divider wall. That second compartment has my pregnant red lobster. The water then goes over the top of the 2nd divider, and arrives in the 3rd compartment.

The 3rd compartment has lava rocks covering the entire bottom surface. It also has my AC110 HOB filter, and an AC110 powerhead connected to the up pipe to the 75.

This setup has been running for a month or so and is going through the brown algae bloom on the glass that always happens after a month in a new tank.

Is my equipment in the right place? Should I have other equipment? I feel like Im doing something wrong here and would appreciate some feedback.


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

Anyone????


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Your sump is very unusual in that it is less of a true filtration system than a holding pen for the lobster & plecos. The plecos are big polluters for their size, so having them in the sump adds to the bioload IMO than the opposite. The lava rock is not very efficient as a biofilter, other media like biobeads or bioballs would give you far more bang-for-the-volume. And so your main filtration in your sump is the AC110 which you might as well have hanging on the display tank. I think you're trying to do too many things with the sump and the actual filtration function is not a high priority. Most sumps on fw tanks would have more chambers devoted to mech, chem & biological filtration. There is no mech or chem filtration except your HOB AC110 and the lava rock is not all that efficient as biofiltration.


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

I only put the plecos and snails in there for algae purposes, and when I noticed my lobster was preggo, I took her out of the community tank so the cichlids wouldnt eat the babies. I didnt have an appropriate place for her so I put her in the sump. Macframalama suggested the lava rock because the surface area is much greater than bio-beads or bio-balls.

How should my sump be set up? I want to make the purpose of the sump to be filtration. I just dont know what to do. The guy I bought the tanks off stopped replying to me after I paid for them. I was pretty frustrated for a while, but I made it work... just not how its supposed to


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

i agree with everything except the fact that lava rock is no good, i much prefer it to the platic biomedia i use it in all my stuff in conjunction with bio balss but i would have happily used it in place of the plastics, 

how can you say its no good, you cant get a more pourus rock, loads more area for bacteria and i find it works faster than a straight bio ball set up...


but yeah i think you need foam or sponges in your first section, a finer material in you first part of your second section, and load up the rest with bio media of your choice...but get the plecos out and put it in your tank, and put your 110 on the tank itself, and add a filter sock to your downpipe


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## Captured Moments (Apr 22, 2010)

Can you take a few pictures of your sump and post it here so that we can see how you can improve on it for filtration purposes?


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

Captured Moments said:


> Can you take a few pictures of your sump and post it here so that we can see how you can improve on it for filtration purposes?


I can when I get home in a couple hours.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

For natural rock, lava rock is your best bet. But in terms of efficiency compared to bioballs, biobeads, Eheim substrate pro, etc. lava rock is not as efficient. Of course all these other alternatives will probably cost more than your lava rock. A lot depends on your bioload, how big your biomedia chamber is, etc.


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

macframalama said:


> but yeah i think you need foam or sponges in your first section, a finer material in you first part of your second section, and load up the rest with bio media of your choice...but get the plecos out and put it in your tank, and put your 110 on the tank itself, and add a filter sock to your downpipe


can you give me specific products to buy for the first 2 compartments? There are a million types of sponges out there... and what finer material? lol be more specific man!


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

coming from a sw guy I am kinda surpised to hear you side with plastics over a rock...
while i agree that it isnt the best bio media out there I think it is up there over plastics and synthetics, sand alone should be up there too, but for balling stuff i would talk to exotic aquaria guy and see what he has left for those big ole bio ceramic jobs,Exotic Aquaria - Dry Goods, those seem like a nice thing you could make a huge stack of them on the final stage of your sump if you think the lava rock is your weak point, but it isnt what is your mechanical side , the part where the water drains into the sump, throw a filter sock on your down pipe, get some big sheets of foam or sponges and fill chamber 1 , then use finer foam or matting, then either add or swap out your lava rock...your return pump should be after all the lava rock, and put your hob aq 110 on the tank not the sump, kick the plecos out, leave the snails if you want,


SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> For natural rock, lava rock is your best bet. But in terms of efficiency compared to bioballs, biobeads, Eheim substrate pro, etc. lava rock is not as efficient. Of course all these other alternatives will probably cost more than your lava rock. A lot depends on your bioload, how big your biomedia chamber is, etc.


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

and your sump should be in the dark, no lights if it is exposed cover that ish up,


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

macframalama said:


> and your sump should be in the dark, no lights if it is exposed cover that ish up,


Sump cabinet has doors that are closed all the time


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

weird buddy... i vote you go get the few things you need, and go home, call me and we can figure it out ,via emailing pics back and forth or something , but i think a total sump breakdown is in order, and i think you would benefit from a proper return pump pushing real gph through there i think your water is flowing to slowly.. someone on here has to have a decent 900 gph @6 feet of head pump kicking around or something similiar


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

how big is your downpipe?,


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Well, cant say I fully understand why you have a sump. The lava rock will act as a biological and mechanical filter of sorts but why do you have fish living in there? Is it a time out? Have they been bad? I don't understand.


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

I explained why the plecos and crayfish were in there already. plecos were for algae. crayfish is preggo.


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

macframalama said:


> how big is your downpipe?,


1-1.5 inches. big enough to put a toonie sized apple snail in it


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

Filter Media & Parts


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

Ok there you can see the whole thing, and 2 pics with the doors open. If youd like more just let me know


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Bio Balls Per Cubic Foot

This one source (you can accept or disagree with their conclusions) claims that 1 cubic foot of bioballs will have 44 sq. ft. of surface area and weigh 5 lbs while 1 cubic foot of lava rock will only have 16 sq. ft. of surface area and weigh 40+ lbs.

Ceramic rings, biomedia and etc. can be even more efficient.

BTW, Mac, as a sw guy, I NEVER use lava rock. For fw filtration needs, I find synthetic filter media much more efficient. The main reason I would ever use lava rock in my fw sump would be as a cost saving method. Rather than have snails/plecos etc. in the sump, I would place the preggo lobster in there, then use the second chamber for mech. filtration using coarse filter pads or sponges first, then finer materials next. The last chamber before the return pump is where I would have a bunch of biomedia and bags of purigen (instead of activated charcoal) for chem. filtration. Purigen is again more expensive but it can be recycled by adding diluted bleach solution and then reused.


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Rather than have snails/plecos etc. in the sump, I would place the preggo lobster in there, then use the second chamber for mech. filtration using coarse filter pads or sponges first, then finer materials next. The last chamber before the return pump is where I would have a bunch of biomedia and bags of purigen (instead of activated charcoal) for chem. filtration. Purigen is again more expensive but it can be recycled by adding diluted bleach solution and then reused.


Ok I took her out


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## Smatt (May 27, 2011)

Are you sorted or do you need some more advice? I made my own filtration system in a sump (bush mechanic style) and can give some info if needed.....


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## ThePhoenix (Jul 23, 2012)

I havent done it yet. I just changed jobs and paid off a HUGE amount of debt. Doing my sump is slowly getting higher and higher on the To-do list.


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

bush mechanic style is the only way to go... diy buddy ..


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

if you need a better affordable filter media, then get a whack load of nylon pot scrubbers. Dollar stores sells them in bags of 6-8, they are innert, colourful (great for small tanks, color code which ones you wash at which time ), and DIRT CHEAP.

Every tank minus my salt water uses pot scrubbers. They are a breeze to clean aswell


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Beginners Guide to Filter Media is a good reference


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