# pH Question



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Hello,

I have a question regarding the pH in my 20 and 29g aquarium and it's suitability for my julii corys. According to my test kit, both are sitting at ~7.8ish, but when I test the tap water I get a reading of ~6.4. I do not have any sort of shells or crushed coral in the aquariums. In fact, I have 3 pieces of driftwood between the two... I wouldn't really be that concerned about that high of a pH level, but I just recently purchased the 5 Julii Cory's and was really hoping to spawn them. I have read that they prefer a lower pH, like around what my tap water is. 

I guess what I am asking is:

1. Why would my pH in my tank be so much higher than the tap water
2. Should I lower it to have the cory's spawn (and be happy lol)
3. If I should lower it, how would I go about doing so?

Thanks


----------



## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

I will try my best to answer your questions.What typs of test kit are you using? have you checked the expiry date on it? When are taking your tests? Before a water test or after?

Anywhere from 6.0 - 7.0 PH wise your good to go with these guys.Temps should be around low 20's to mid 20's.Lots of water movement and plenty of oxygen need to be created.Feed either live foods or frozen to get them started.I use blackworms,brineshrimp,and bloodworms for my guys.I have noticed from my own experiences breeding sterbai, is when i do water changes and add cooler water this gets them going.A larger female to male ratio helps you out as well.You will notice quite a bit of activity in the aqaurium with them buzing around,shaking,males chasing the female(when she is plump/round in shape).

If you insist in loweing your PH,you can do it naturally by adding more driftwood which releases tannins.Peat in the filter or substrate will also lower it,but be careful with the amount you use.Almond leaves are another method as well,plus the bonus of hiding spots and curing agents for your fish.These last a week or two and then you need to remove them,or let catfish eat them.Theres a few products out there that will lower ph values,but is up to the owners discretion.Tetra and Seachem are two i can think of.Keep an eye on your GH/KH levels if your adjusting your water perimeters as well if your breeding them.You dont want them to go sideways.


----------



## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Tap water pH is lower because it contains more CO2.
Excess CO2 escapes when tap water is exposed to room temperature and the atmosphere.Those bubbles you see when a glass of water is left on the counter for a while are CO2.

Low KH poorly buffered Vancouver water gives higher pH swings than higher KH water w/the same CO2 content.


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Thanks for the replies.



Luke78 said:


> I will try my best to answer your questions.What typs of test kit are you using? have you checked the expiry date on it? When are taking your tests? Before a water test or after?
> 
> Anywhere from 6.0 - 7.0 PH wise your good to go with these guys.Temps should be around low 20's to mid 20's.Lots of water movement and plenty of oxygen need to be created.Feed either live foods or frozen to get them started.I use blackworms,brineshrimp,and bloodworms for my guys.I have noticed from my own experiences breeding sterbai, is when i do water changes and add cooler water this gets them going.A larger female to male ratio helps you out as well.You will notice quite a bit of activity in the aqaurium with them buzing around,shaking,males chasing the female(when she is plump/round in shape).
> 
> If you insist in loweing your PH,you can do it naturally by adding more driftwood which releases tannins.Peat in the filter or substrate will also lower it,but be careful with the amount you use.Almond leaves are another method as well,plus the bonus of hiding spots and curing agents for your fish.These last a week or two and then you need to remove them,or let catfish eat them.Theres a few products out there that will lower ph values,but is up to the owners discretion.Tetra and Seachem are two i can think of.Keep an eye on your GH/KH levels if your adjusting your water perimeters as well if your breeding them.You dont want them to go sideways.


My pH kit does not have an expiry date, but I only bought it around 6 months ago so I can't imagine it has gone bad. I tested the water right before a water change, which I do every 1-2 weeks.

Based off of your info I should lower my pH if I want them to spawn. I am not really keen on adding more driftwood because I already have several pieces and don't want to make the tank overcrowded with wood lol. I am leery of using chemical products to tamper with the chemistry so would rather try other avenues first  Would oak leaves work similarly to almond leaves? I was going to add oak leaves anyway so that would be awesome. I am not against adding peat but have heard mixed opinions about it being good and bad.

I really do not want to tamper with my water chemistry (scared to screw things up) but feel that I need to for the julii


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

kelownaguy said:


> Tap water pH is lower because it contains more CO2.
> Excess CO2 escapes when tap water is exposed to room temperature and the atmosphere.Those bubbles you see when a glass of water is left on the counter for a while are CO2.
> 
> Low KH poorly buffered Vancouver water gives higher pH swings than higher KH water w/the same CO2 content.


I don't have CO2 running in these tanks... Unless I did a DIY system I don't think I can implement one as it is out of my price range (student budget lol).


----------



## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

Chances are your cories are tank raised, which means they're probably bred in asia in hard, alkaline waters. The pH wont really matter in the case as they're used to it. Consistency matters more for most fish than accuracy, even where wild fish are concerned. I don't know about spawning cories, but I do know a large water change followed by replacing the old water with new, slightly cooler water will trigger spawning. I'd say try that first and see how it goes. And if you're really dead set on lowering the pH, I suggest trying peat moss, driftwood, or other natural forms of pH control before grabbing a bottle of acid buffer.


----------



## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Emily,

Iam also against using chemicals,and would consider this dead last if you want to reach a specific ph point.I have not used oak leaves myself,but would be leary of adding them because of what they are exposed to outside and location of where you would find them.A few sponsors here bring in almond leaves of all sizes and grades,try them and see what they have in stock.Ive had great success with them so far for all my wild stock(discus,cories,apistogrammas,plecos etc) and others here use them in shrimp setups.More positives than negatives,one leaf is good for 10G and lasts about 1-2 weeks depending on stock levels,temps.Cories and other bottom feeders will munch on them,and use them for shade/cover.Remember to create a bit of flow in your setup,catfish appreciate this as well and use it while breeding.I know plecos like this.



Emily said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> My pH kit does not have an expiry date, but I only bought it around 6 months ago so I can't imagine it has gone bad. I tested the water right before a water change, which I do every 1-2 weeks.
> 
> ...


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Hi guys, thanks for the replies and information.

I think I will leave the pH as is for now and let them get settled and happy. I'll condition them and see if I can get some spawning action and if not, I'll re-approach the pH issue.

Thanks!


----------



## H . (Apr 23, 2010)

are you using any gravel in your tank now? I think you should figure out why the pH was going up in your tank at first. Vancouver's water should be almost perfect for cory...


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

H . said:


> are you using any gravel in your tank now? I think you should figure out why the pH was going up in your tank at first. Vancouver's water should be almost perfect for cory...


Yes I am, fluorite in one and a type of gravel in the other... To be honest I do not know what type it is, I got it forever ago... I would like to know why it is going up as well but I am at a loss for why. I thought maybe it was terra cotta pots I had put in but they are in only one of the tanks so...


----------



## H . (Apr 23, 2010)

I think the gravel is the reason.


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

H . said:


> I think the gravel is the reason.


Well both tanks that have the high pH have different gravel, one has fluorite and the other has a 'river gravel' type.


----------



## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Emily said:


> I don't have CO2 running in these tanks... Unless I did a DIY system I don't think I can implement one as it is out of my price range (student budget lol).


I don't think Kelownaguy was referring to injecting CO2. There is CO2 in your tap water, when you aerate it and age it, the CO2 outgasses, your pH should rise, how much depends on what concentration of CO2 is in your tap water. Next time you finish a pH test, blow into your test tube, seal and shake - your pH reading should go down.


----------



## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you tested your KH readings?

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Ok that makes sense. And would injecting CO2 then make a difference?

I have not tested my KH recently but when I get home this afternoon I will test and post the results


----------



## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

hp10BII said:


> I don't think Kelownaguy was referring to injecting CO2. There is CO2 in your tap water, when you aerate it and age it, the CO2 outgasses, your pH should rise, how much depends on what concentration of CO2 is in your tap water. Next time you finish a pH test, blow into your test tube, seal and shake - your pH reading should go down.


That's a great tip. I wonder if you could tell that your PH test is too old by blowing in the tube after testing. Colour doesn't change = not good anymore? Too bad I have already throw my old PH test out last week&#8230;.


----------



## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

roadrunner said:


> That's a great tip. I wonder if you could tell that your PH test is too old by blowing in the tube after testing. Colour doesn't change = not good anymore? Too bad I have already throw my old PH test out last week&#8230;.


The tests kit may be good, I was just throwing it out there how CO2 would affect pH readings. I don't think it would be a reliable indicator of your actual pH readings - some people have more hot air than others. 

I would go by the manufacturer's expiry dates to be sure.

Shelf Life of Aquarium Test Kits"


----------



## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Emily said:


> Ok that makes sense. And would injecting CO2 then make a difference?
> 
> I have not tested my KH recently but when I get home this afternoon I will test and post the results


Injecting CO2 will make a difference, but your pH may be unstable if your KH is low. Fluctuating pH is more stressful to fish than too high or too low a pH.


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Ok my GH/KH reading is 71.6ppm  So that's relatively normal right?


----------



## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

A little on the low side I think (not sure though as I use dGH, not ppm, for KH/GH).


----------



## H . (Apr 23, 2010)

Emily said:


> Well both tanks that have the high pH have different gravel, one has fluorite and the other has a 'river gravel' type.


Those gravels is the reason that your tanks water pH are higher than your tap water. If you change your gravels to those "pH save" kinds such like pool sand or so, The problem will be gone.


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

BelieveInBlue said:


> A little on the low side I think (not sure though as I use dGH, not ppm, for KH/GH).


I divided ppm by 17.86 (apparently that's how you convert it) so the dGH is 4


----------



## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

That's fine. I keep my KH/GH at about 4, although that's because I keep SA stuff (dwarf cichlids, tetras, cories, etc).


----------



## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Emily said:


> Ok my GH/KH reading is 71.6ppm  So that's relatively normal right?


I don`t know what corys require,but,those #s sound OK except for the 3 digit accuracy.You would be lucky to get one digit accuracy from the normal test kits.Even then,the final result is normally within a range of values.
eg.For the Nutrafin kH test kit,a colour change after 2 drops indicates a kH of anywhere between 10-20 ppm.

The thing to remember is that pH is almost entirely determined by the CO2 and carbonate(KH) concentrations.If CO2 decreases or KH increases(or both) the pH will go up.

I suspect both are responsible for your PH increase.
Easy to tell if the gravel is responsible by comparing the KH of your tap and aquarium water.

Similarily,confirm your tap water loses CO2 by measuring pH straight out of the tap and again after letting a glassful sit on the counter for a day or so.
(aerate w/an air pump for quicker,more accurate results)

Various chemical additions can affect pH either way.
Old aquarium water can have a biuld up of organic acids which push pH down.

The normal benefical nitrification cycle in an aquarium consumes KH.This pushes pH down and if KH was very low to begin with, can lead to the infamous "pH crash".


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Ok so my reading is relatively normal, just not as accurate as I thought  Based off of what you have suggested I am going to compare the tap water to my tank water by letting it sit in a cup with an airstone. I am also going to set up a DIY CO2 (for the tank with the cories anyway) and will probably purchase some of those almond leaves. 

I am torn on the gravel because I like my fluorite and it was expensive...  Not really keen on swapping it but I'll do what I have to.

Thanks!


----------



## Tarobot (Jun 27, 2010)

just get seachem betta care of regulator that removes ammonia chlorine from your tap and also sets the ph to 7, which is a reasonable number to keep most things alive.


----------

