# Bike lanes != turning lanes!



## Jaguar (Oct 19, 2011)

Kelowna, today. SMH.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

lies! cars stay out of the bike/turning lane when there are bikes there. as a pedestrian i get royally ticked off when a grown person is cycling on the side walk, especially when there is no room for pedestrians to move out of the way.


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

Yup, plenty of blame to go around. It's not bikers or drivers it's just people. And good and bad drive bikes and cars and pedestrians. Much safer in a car though.lol. Don't swim in the shark tank.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Where is the bike traffic jam in that pic?


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## Fishman21 (Apr 26, 2010)

Very true, eliminate people and the bikes would have no problem


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

I honestly do not agree to that a bicycle lane must be kept clear even when there is no cyclist. Common sense governs here. Bikes have ROW on bike lanes just as pedestrians have ROW on crosswalks. That does not mean that cars cannot use at ALL times. It's like saying all bikes must stay off the vehicle lanes at all time - OR must dismount every time they cross a road, etc etc 

I have seen more dangerous cyclists than drivers.

Regardless, in the pic., there does not appear to be any turning lane. He is either tryuing to pass or just dropped someone off at the bus stop and pulling off.


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

we pay fuel tax for road but what do bike pay to have their bike lane?

try to drive in downtown, its like cyclist own the road not car.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

We can all thank Gregor for those. Ridiculous. I drive there daily and I can usually count on one hand how many bikes I pass on those lanes in rush hour.



hondas3000 said:


> we pay fuel tax for road but what do bike pay to have their bike lane?
> 
> try to drive in downtown, its like cyclist own the road not car.


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## Death's Sting (Apr 21, 2010)

*What we see:*










*What she see's:*


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## J'sRacing (Apr 25, 2012)

Bikes are for kids, leave the roads to the adults. 

Honestly i agree with the sentiment that the above posters have. 

2 things should and must be implemented. 
1)Bikers need to buy insurance and have a license plate if they are going to ride on the road. So common sense: kids riding on sidewalks don't need insurance.
2)Bikers should be ticketed for doing illegal stuff too. Running lights etc.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

I've seen tons of cyclists stall lanes and cause traffic due to their slow movement,but when it's convienient for them they use the side walk or go between cars.If cyclist want aqual respect then they should match the speed of cars and always wait for lights as cars do.Cyclists should also pay for a license and insurance.Thats what I would like to see.


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## Jaguar (Oct 19, 2011)

ohh forum wars!! how exciting. of course the vast majority of you would disagree, but that's because the vast majority of people nowadays drive. there are two sides to this. kelowna (this is kelowna, NOT van/surrounding areas by the way) has had a lot of problems with bike bylaws lately, kids getting tickets for riding on the sidewalks etc. and this is what I'm talking about. I have no concerns about hardcore cyclists having to deal with this on the road because I know they are just as arrogant and aggressive with the road and they can deal with it.

But you have to remember that young kids, families, casual riders, etc. have to ride in these lanes too. and they may or may not have street appropriate bikes, road sense to be biking on a highway and so on. I would never bike on 97 as it is, and i know not many casual riders/so on do, and it is probably for a good reason. that highway is dangerous for anyone on it, car or bike. accidents and pedestrian deaths are frequent.

hell, you can use the HOV lane to make a right on the highway. you're going to cross the bike lane either way, but it's not okay to pass through the HOV lane and into the bike lane, and then continue to in it to make a turn... especially in a 5pm rush hour traffic in the rain. he was in the bike lane long before I took the picture. I had to fumble around in my bag to grab my phone and load up the camera. 

no he was not picking up or dropping anyone off. he was making a turn, you can see his turn signal in the pic. 

I don't care if there were 10 or no bikes in the lane, it's not for driving in. look at the trucks tires vs. the lane lines. obviously no bikers were at risk, it was pouring rain all day, but it could have easily caused a vehicle accident... and next time the bike lane might not be empty. i think it will turn into another case where we close the barn door after the horse escapes.

ps. I'm not a cyclist so personal attacks that don't affect me are just silly.


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

tony1928 said:


> We can all thank Gregor for those. Ridiculous. I drive there daily and I can usually count on one hand how many bikes I pass on those lanes in rush hour.


Thats because the bikes are going faster than you are Tony :lol: ( try driving faster ) and they dont stop for the red lights.( i wouldnt advise that in a car )...but yep ..thanks mr.moonbeam the bike lanes are working well for the millions of dollars spent to implement them.But thats okay ...you will get that money back from the new parking meters .......that ya spent millions on ...

Another reason I love living up north now........


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Haha, yeah, I can't get down Dunsmuir quickly as its now down to freakin 2 lanes at places. One full lane now blocked by this concrete barricaded bike superhighway. I have nothing against bikes, I enjoy mine immensely, but I just think the location of these lanes leaves most people scratching their heads.



Aquaman said:


> Thats because the bikes are going faster than you are Tony :lol: ( try driving faster ) and they dont stop for the red lights.( i wouldnt advise that in a car )...but yep ..thanks mr.moonbeam the bike lanes are working well for the millions of dollars spent to implement them.But thats okay ...you will get that money back from the new parking meters .......that ya spent millions on ...
> 
> Another reason I love living up north now........


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

tony1928 said:


> Haha, yeah, I can't get down Dunsmuir quickly as its now down to freakin 2 lanes at places. One full lane now blocked by this concrete barricaded bike superhighway. I have nothing against bikes, I enjoy mine immensely, but I just think the location of these lanes leaves most people scratching their heads.


Try single lane when a tour bus pulls in front of the St. Regis hotel. I worked 2 blocks from there. And then I love it when a bicyclist spits on the passengers of a taxi cab dropping off passengers as there is no longer any curb to drop people in front of hotels as it's a bike lane there. There's hospitality and road sharing for you.


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## Foxtail (Mar 14, 2012)

My Uncle has riden his bike downtown since the early 70s and never had a problem until they put the bike lanes in. He absolutely hates them. People have always riden bikes in vancouver. I get the bike lane... Those are everywhere now, but why the giant concrete barrier? Cant drop people off, cant pull over, cant make a right hand turn!!! Gregor is an idiot trying to force people to ride bikes instead of drive. I heard on the radio the other day, a city planner from somewhere down in the states was here for some convention... He said that the bike lanes were great... For cyclists... As for city planning and design, it was rediculis and laughable. 

Grrrrr bike lanes... No no grrrr concrete barriers!

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Foxtail said:


> Those are everywhere now, but why the giant concrete barrier? Cant drop people off, cant pull over, cant make a right hand turn!!!


I wouldn't be so upset if they were just concrete barriers, but they are planted and watered concrete barriers. What happened to conserving water? Plus they use up 2 feet of lane width the trucks could have used. Just ask any delivery guy driving a truck how they like the bike lanes.


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

I think the issue is stupid cyclists and equally stupid motorists, people as a whole are opportunistic,if that lane is open and no one is watchin people are gonna drive in it... same for cyclists, if its faster to zip through cars or zip around traffic they will..

no one enforcing this stuff = no rules, all it takes is one wacked out cyclist or one road raging motorists and the rules will be broken 
if you dont like having to use bike lanes... move yourself out of that monstrosity know as vancouver and surrounding area and move somewhere smaller, 
and if you wanna drive in the bike lane expect that sooner or later your gonna get busted, hit someone or have some super cyclist rage on you, 
its dog eat dog out there, 
fortunately my dog is a 90's suburban so i win most of the time ....


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## Jaguar (Oct 19, 2011)

Yeah there's definitely an equal amount of stupidity between them, but driver stupidity seems to be a lot more dangerous.. i mean, if a biker pulls something stupid and gets themself hit by a car that's really their problem, but if a driver hits someone...

and btw I live in Kelowna, not everyone in BC lives on the coast, as much as it sometimes seems that way. glad to hear things are better over there though!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Jaguar said:


> Yeah there's definitely an equal amount of stupidity between them, but driver stupidity seems to be a lot more dangerous.. i mean, if a biker pulls something stupid and gets themself hit by a car that's really their problem, but if a driver hits someone...


The problem is when that same biker blows red light and hits a mom pushing a kid in a stroller crossing the street....200 lbs of bicycle and rider at 30 kph hitting a pedestrian. Guess who wins.


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## Nicole (Nov 21, 2011)

I don't care when bikers bike on the sidewalk, in the bike lane on the road, or off to the side where the parked cars are...but when they bike right in the middle of the lane surrounded by cars..you can't expect a driver to be happy when they're forced to go at 30kmph, especially on a busy road..and then making sure to leave plenty of room in between in case the biker decides to short stop so they don't go flying and then coming back with a court claim


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## Jaguar (Oct 19, 2011)

I haven't personally seen anyone bike through a red light yet. I have drivers cut me off on crosswalks all the time as I walk to and from work 5 days a week. Yesterday a girl in a red sportscar blew through a crosswalk right in front of me and tossed her chocolate bar garbage out the window. Maybe the lights change faster in Kelowna... who knows. 

I have seen people bike in the lanes on the road, but generally only when they are making an opposite turn and definitely not on the highway.

I don't bike or drive, I walk, so I see things from both points of view. I think people are just stupid all around honestly... everyone sure seems to think getting to their destination a minute faster is worth being stupid and reckless over.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The scenario I described happened right in front of me on Dunsmuir. But you're right, it's not just cyclists. It's just selfish people in general. I used to ride bicycles until I got clipped by a dump truck, ride motorcycles, take the bus and drive, so I see it from all sides. I was also a riding instructor for quite a while and stupidity comes in all forms. Most people's idea of "share the road" is "get out my way".


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

PSpades said:


> I don't care when bikers bike on the sidewalk, in the bike lane on the road, or off to the side where the parked cars are...but when they bike right in the middle of the lane surrounded by cars..you can't expect a driver to be happy when they're forced to go at 30kmph, especially on a busy road..and then making sure to leave plenty of room in between in case the biker decides to short stop so they don't go flying and then coming back with a court claim


One hand we try to save emission but look how bikers slow the traffic and traffic jams. I wouldn't want my kids to ride on the bike lane as I know it would be safer for them to ride on the sidewalk. What next? Stroller lane too since it take so much space on sidewalk.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

I don't see where that truck was ever going to turn right. Into that field? Besides it appears that bike lanes ends were the truck is. No? Just some idiot trying to save a few mins. If all people involved in commuting would just follow the rules of the road this wouldn't be an issue. People are dumb sometimes. Fact.

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk 2


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

I'd really like to see commuter cyclists licensed if they are using the road. In north van, a cyclist knocked down a toddler and broke her leg, and rode off and disappeared. No way to ID them because they didn't have a license plate. Same thing with collisions.

I've commuted by bike, foot and car, and I have to say that the majority of downtown Vancouver cyclists I've personally met are entitled a-holes. And the drivers are just as bad. The City of Vancouver is making this whole thing even worse because it's run by a bunch of ideology-driven nutbars who seem to lurch from special interest project to special interest project without any actual public consultation, which of course makes the antagonism worse.


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## Jaguar (Oct 19, 2011)

Immus21 said:


> I don't see where that truck was ever going to turn right. Into that field? Besides it appears that bike lanes ends were the truck is. No? Just some idiot trying to save a few mins. If all people involved in commuting would just follow the rules of the road this wouldn't be an issue. People are dumb sometimes. Fact.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk 2


About a 5 car distance past him there is a small road in. The "lane" that ends in the pic is actually the pull out for the city bus. I was sitting waiting for my bus when he drove by in the bike lane. The bike lane severely narrows after the bus pull out ends. I do agree though... If everyone just kept to their own business everything would be so nice.


> I've commuted by bike, foot and car, and I have to say that the majority of downtown Vancouver cyclists I've personally met are entitled a-holes. And the drivers are just as bad. The City of Vancouver is making this whole thing even worse because it's run by a bunch of ideology-driven nutbars who seem to lurch from special interest project to special interest project without any actual public consultation, which of course makes the antagonism worse.


Guess no one read past the picture where it says "today in Kelowna". My pic is not from Vancouver or anywhere surrounding. I'm sorry if this rubbed all you Vancouverites the wrong way, but I don't live there so I can't speak for the area. Just documenting my experiences in lower eastern/central BC. Sad to see it's even worse of a problem in Van. But it all goes back to my second post, most people drive nowadays, so we mostly hear opinions from drivers. I'm sure cyclists wouldn't have very nice things to say about the driving population either. If I saw a bike blowing through a red light I would take a picture of that and complain just the same, breaking the law and putting people in danger is just that, car or bike.

I'm just an onlooker now. I used to ride my bike casually, but after receiving a warning for riding on the sidewalk I stopped, because I will NOT ride in the bike lanes or on the shoulder because i am NOT a "cyclist". I don't have extreme road knowledge, my bike is a clunky old broken piece of crap with questionable breaks and gears at best, and I just don't feel comfortable or safe on a busy highway. I was riding 5 minutes down a side road to the beach to pick up some rocks and driftwood for goodness sake. People like me are the "we" I am referring to in my title. People (ESPECIALLY kids) who ride slow, casually, peacefully, slowly, and not aggressively or arrogantly (that MOVE OUT OF THE WAY for pedestrians) that are forced to ride on the highway bike lanes and be treated with the assumption that we think we own the road and all vehicles should yield to us and that we run red lights and hit babies in strollers etc etc. just look at J's pic, just proves that people WILL assume that if you ride a bike you're all of the above.


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## J'sRacing (Apr 25, 2012)

Well the reality of it in Vancouver is;
They've wasted a whole bunch of money on building these bike lanes that maybe like 1 or 2 people use, and have removed a driving lane in the process. Not to mention that 99% of cyclists in Vancouver are self-entitled rule breaking bum bums. So that's where we stand.

Oh yea not to mention, you're allowed to use a cell phone while cycling, but can't drive while using a cell phone. I figured that holding a cell phone while doing something such as steering a bicycle would be more dangerous, but apparently not. 

So yes. They need to make it that road cyclists need insurance and license plates.


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## Foxtail (Mar 14, 2012)

Jaguar, we know this was in kelowna. You have just given us a point on which we can all relate... And rant lol

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## Jaguar (Oct 19, 2011)

J'sRacing said:


> Well the reality of it in Vancouver is;
> They've wasted a whole bunch of money on building these bike lanes that maybe like 1 or 2 people use, and have removed a driving lane in the process. Not to mention that 99% of cyclists in Vancouver are self-entitled rule breaking bum bums. So that's where we stand.
> 
> Oh yea not to mention, you're allowed to use a cell phone while cycling, but can't drive while using a cell phone. I figured that holding a cell phone while doing something such as steering a bicycle would be more dangerous, but apparently not.
> ...


That's understandable. Bike lanes were an afterthought, which isn't a bad thing because lately more people have been turning to alternate modes of transportation, but you shouldn't take away a lane away from the driving majority for the biking minority without some serious thought put into it.

But then you'd get the hardcore cyclists in their spandex gear speeding past folks on sidewalks to avoid licensing/insurance, and casual riders/kids/people just wanting to get from A to B etc. that ride a bike because of the affordability and don't want to pay for that. I can't really think of a solution that doesn't involve one side or the other feeling hurt about it.



Foxtail said:


> Jaguar, we know this was in kelowna. You have just given us a point on which we can all relate... And rant lol


Yes and no. People are arguing against me under the assumption that either 1. i'm an arrogant rulebreaking "bum-bum" (i like that) biker just being hypocritical, or 2. basing their argument like this is in Vancouver where the problem is obviously much larger than it is here. I thought we could all come to the civil conclusion that people shouldn't be driving in the bike lane and the bylaw officers shouldn't expect slow casual riders and kids to ride in these lanes either, but instead it became the great "who owns the road" debate that we've all seen and done before...


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## J'sRacing (Apr 25, 2012)

Jaguar said:


> Yes and no. People are arguing against me under the assumption that either 1. i'm an arrogant rulebreaking "bum-bum" (i like that) biker just being hypocritical, or 2. basing their argument like this is in Vancouver where the problem is obviously much larger than it is here. I thought we could all come to the civil conclusion that people shouldn't be driving in the bike lane and the bylaw officers shouldn't expect slow casual riders and kids to ride in these lanes either, but instead it became the great "who owns the road" debate that we've all seen and done before...


well seeing as this is a family website, i figured bum bum would work a lot better than some other phrases. I actually think the opposite, when the bike lane is not in use, motorists should be able to use it. And i figure the reason why most motorists are upset because these irresponsible cyclist never get ticketed for anything that would otherwise be a ticketable offense in a car. + the fact that they've removed a usable lane for them as well.


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

well now the bike lane in vancouver will be permanent as the counselor vote yes for it today.


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## Nicole (Nov 21, 2011)

I also agree people should be able to drive in the bike lane when it's not in use. What's the point of letting the space go to waste and have no one use it? If there is a biker though, that's a different story. 

It also doesn't bother me that cyclists don't get ticketed. Lots of drivers do stupid things I wish they would get ticketed for but they don't so whatever.

I have had the experience of driving behind a biker..who was yes, biking in the middle of the lane. Not to turn or anything, riding along just as if it was another car. It's not that I have a thing against cyclists, but more like people who go super slow and block up traffic. My friend got marks deducted off of her driving test because she started out driving too slow at 40kmph for only 2 blocks. So if it's not okay to disrupt the flow of traffic by going at 40kmph..it's okay for bikers to disrupt the flow of traffic? I would not have a problem if bikers can go 60kmph or stay off to the side. 

I don't think it's an issue of people not wanting to share the road. I gladly let others go before me at stop signs and stop for pedestrians just to show respect, even though I could have easily already past them. But let's face it, it's like going 70 on a highway..there is a reason why people change lanes to get in front of bigger trucks, etc. You don't see commercial trucks driving in the fast lane. If you can't keep up, don't block and stay off to the side. I remember in high school when the bells rang and the hallways were so jammed pack. You try to get somewhere but there's a group of 4 people who decide to walk side-by-side taking up the whole hallway..and they walk slowwwwwlllllllllllyyyyy. Maybe it's just me, but I always thought to myself "I wish I had a bulldozer."

Wow, ranting feels good!


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## J'sRacing (Apr 25, 2012)

PSpades said:


> I also agree people should be able to drive in the bike lane when it's not in use. What's the point of letting the space go to waste and have no one use it? If there is a biker though, that's a different story.
> 
> It also doesn't bother me that cyclists don't get ticketed. Lots of drivers do stupid things I wish they would get ticketed for but they don't so whatever.
> 
> ...


Which makes me think of a fun game! hit the cyclists! 100 points for every slow one, 50 points for every red light runner  oh only in grand theft auto


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Any chance of changing the threads title to something that actually relates to this threads topic. I find it a bit misleading and more fitting for the CL rants and raves section at this point.


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## Smallermouse (Jan 28, 2012)

yeah ur right about downtown. it's so hectic there when cyclist think they own the road!


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## Jaguar (Oct 19, 2011)

Diz, I changed it because people were misinterpreting it and being not-so-nice to me. I changed it to be more relevant now. I did not intend to start a debate, just share a photo of someone doing something stupid and maybe have a few people laugh at it. A few folks decided to take it the other direction and turn it into one.

I probably wouldn't mind so much if people drove in the bike lanes if 1.) they went all the way through town and 2.) they were wide enough to fit a car in.

They are erratically placed throughout town, they will widen, then narrow, then go for a few hundred m, disappear, and then start again later. Some of them are painted green, some of them have pictures of bikes, others just have white lines. And they're NOT wide enough to drive in, as demonstrated by my photo. His tires are on the lines as it is. As soon as the bus pull out ended it narrows further. Other cars had to stop and wait for him to squeeze by and turn.


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## davej (Apr 28, 2010)

Jaguar said:


> I haven't personally seen anyone bike through a red light yet.


I see it daily in Vancouver, bikers here love their lanes and what not until its not convenient.
Then its all out the door, blow thru a light? No problem. Weave thru pedestrians on the sidewalk or in a crosswalk no problem.

As well if we adhere to your thinking that the vehicle turning should stay out of the bike lane.
Use your head and think about it, would you as a biker rather have the driver fully state his intentions to turn and occupy the curb most lane when its clear,
so that you as a biker can come up behind him and SLOW DOWN knowing fully what to expect. Vehicle completes his turn safely, cyclist continues their ride in one piece?
Or would you rather he stay to the left and then turn in-front of you as you come blasting up to the light?
As well if bike lanes are the domain of bikes only then the same could be said about the roads, and the bikes should stay off of them,
and leave them clear for cars only. Not very practical.


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