# Illegal tropical fish



## tilly

Just thought people should know about a precident setting case in New Brunswick that has been going on for about 3
years 
David Jones charged with illegal aquaculture and found guilty ,but not sentenced yet 
Judge rules because of the amount of fish 500 more or less no definative given, so do not know how many less or how many more .This was ruled on fish of all sizes including fry . 
Think about it 
oh and never sold a fish 
This is the first case of its kind in canada
I would suggest that people pay attention 
In the future this may effect you 
Also searched with no search warrant 
go figure 
hide your guppy's


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## Keri

Do you know what type of fish?


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## The Guy

Kind of open ended, where did you source your information? This could discribe a lot of people in the tropical fish hobby.


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## tilly

The Guy said:


> Kind of open ended, where did you source your information? This could discribe a lot of people in the tropical fish hobby.


Hi 
The source is me and there is a lot more to the story and I think that this can and will effect many people in this country if allowed to become law


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## tilly

oh 
pretrial meeting ,according to defense lawyer if I did not plead guilty they would kill my fish


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## tilly

Hi
The fish are a pure genetic strain of nile tilapia , purchased legally ,and with health certificates in the year 2001


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## Momobobo

So let me get this straight, he was breeding a fish you can acquire legally for the aquarium trade and he got searched and arrested for this...? Good thing I'm not a breeder...


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## tilly

yes 
there is even more info 
refused full disclosure for court


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## macframalama

there is something FISHY about this thread


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## tilly

yes there is something very fishy


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## hp10BII

How are you involved - are you David Jones?


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## macframalama

this looks like a troll thread 
5 posts from the user
monton nb is the op's home turf

unless you have done something illegal like disposing of your fish in a waterway i dont see how any of this makes sence

#1 never heard of anyone being raided and seized for doing "legal" things
#2 never heard of anyone having anything seized and have it being kept alive
#3 monton nb is a long long way from bc
#4very short non discriptive posts

Im calling bs on the whole thing if im wrong so be it but there is something OFF about this whole thing
#5 who the h e double hockey sticks is dave jones


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## cpool

Tilly, you were charged with having to many fish?


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## skrick

This is a true story google it he had a full illegal fish hatchery for talipia and he got busted harvesting food fish


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## macframalama

well if he is selling them as food fish then thats what happens, i thought this was just an aquarist with tilapia,

play with fire get burned...


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## tilly

I just spent 10 minutes doing reply's and the site times out and I have to start again


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## macframalama

rotted fin 2: Illegal Aquaculture (tilapia) January 10 2012


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## tilly

macframalma
I do not know why you are so negative but thats okay 
never sold a fish 
original charge was for hatchery and was dropped due to no base


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## macframalama

So tilly are you david jones? or are you a supporter of his works?\


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## tilly

mac if you keep watching that site the trial will be posted during the week


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## tilly

I am David Jones 
And I did nothing illegal


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## tilly

The judge stated that because of the amount of fish ,this put me into aquaculture and if you no tropical fish a little then you know that 500 fish of all sizes is not aquaculture


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## tilly

politics can be very interesting


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## tilly

If I had been selling or eating these fish then they would have been seized and killed 
so that did not happen .


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## tilly

If you have a proper question I will answer


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## macframalama

im not being negative just trying to analyze what im reading here, also trying to figure out if this is another bs thread im getting sucked into , also trying to find out who i am talking to , more often than not when we get posts from people either overseas or far away it turns out to be a spammer or a scammer and i hate investing minutes into reading something to find out its all a bunch of bs,


so if this is a real thing and you have some REAL stuff to talk about opposed to 2 sentences at a time about what is either happening to you "david jones" or you are more clear about who you are or what your trying to get across then my "negativity" will go away and I can figure out what your saying

so to clarify 
you had a tilapia farm, and you got raided for what?
if you werent selling the fish then what did you do wrong?
isnt it in canada's best interest to find a suitable , renewable fish food source since our salmon fisheries are in the crapper?
i guess i just dont get what you or "david jones" did wrong and why the heat is on you
I too breed fish and i guess im trying to link what you have done wrong and figure out what legalities you broke if your not selling fish to the public then wtf is the problemo


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## macframalama

I have over 3000 fish at my house right now, granted there all tropicals , sa/ca cichlids and hybrids , so does that put me on a aquaculture status too , i guess i just cant see what you have done that is illegal other than having fish in high numbers?


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## tilly

Now you are starting to understand


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## djamm

Tilly,

I am confused as to what you did wrong; according to the Judge during his judgement?


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## tilly

I am a voting member on the Canadian organic aquaculture working group and voted against the organic salmon


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## tilly

You will have to ask the judge as the judge is Jolen Richard and maybe if you goggle her husband and her father inlaw you will see more ,also if you study salmon you will find billions spent on them


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## macframalama

so what your saying is because you have issue with organic salmon that the judge for lack of a better word crapped on your tilapia farming?
and to clarify why are you farming the tilapia in the first place if your intent was not to sell to the public?
i guess what im asking is what is the"long term" goal of your tilapia farming? ius it to eventually sell them or is this a aquatica hobby that has spiral'd out of control beyond MTS lol or what is the point of the tilapia ?

I actually have a dude who is gonna sell me some tilapia but i want them for breeding so i can feed the fry to MY fish so what kind of legalities am I edging near?


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## macframalama

okay so this is starting to come to light for me , sorry lots of chemicals have passed through this body of mine as a youth , So your saying this family has $$$ invested in organic salmon and because you opposed it by representing tilapia there coming down on you because your messing with there bucks? sound about right?


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## tilly

It is difficult to post as one line then it will not post 
this province and canada ,not the business's


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## tilly

I have been doing reaserch and development and developed a organic fish feed


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## tilly

I will be working on the other site in a couple of days then i will be able to do full sentences do not no why so much trouble posting here


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## tilly

Why did the cfia declare that a disease nile are not prone to be used to exclude them for import


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## macframalama

alright well if your exp technical difficulties I appologize for being a d bag earlier it just is hard as hell to read and makes understanding what your saying 10 x harder what other site are we talking about


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## tilly

It is the tax payer who pays for salmon, at least here it is


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## tilly

This can effect you because you have so many fish


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## macframalama

i just dont get where the legalities come in I am so confused.

what laws would i be breaking breeding cichlids?
and the number of fish i have is because i would say i have like a 98% survival rate with my devilsxmidas and they breed like rabbits
and i have spawning flowerhorns and im breeding out calico convicts? so what is illegal about what i am doing?and how would this tilapia debacle come into our hobby and the standard home aquarist?


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## tilly

I do not think the ruling will stand on appeal but after what has happened so far who knows


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## tilly

what makes your cichlid any different than my cichlid


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## macframalama

people eat your ciclids lol, do people eat devils?? they may never thought of it


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## Scherb

tilly said:


> This can effect you because you have so many fish


Hello. obviously i don't know the hole story, but i seems to me your situation is unique. do to the amount and type of fish, and you ticked off the wrong person. I do agree it seems like a bunch a Bs the government dealt you. but they screw people over every day. Good luck with you fight. Cheers


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## tilly

nobody ate mine 
and ther is no clarification against one type v another type 
these were not sold or moved off site 
multable investigations


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## tilly

Thank you 
that is why this is a precident setting case


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## macframalama

crazy stuff good luck i just dont get what LAW was broken other than you pissed someone off ,


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## tilly

I will be posting the whole trial and you will start to see and hear 
and just listen to the statements


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## tilly

actually that is what has happened but not just one 
Got the fish in 2001 with full government approval provincial and federal


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## macframalama

another question.... why did you seek approval to have fish? is this because you were intending on farming tilapia? for the sale to the public? weather it has happened or not your long term intent is to sell a "food fish" right


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## tilly

I also do aquaponics and in order to get a top strain from a canadian supplier I had to get approval


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## tilly

My long term intent will be posted with the court documents 
as it is all in the application that was not given in court disclosure


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## Foxtail

The big problem is, when you don't break a law but the judge doesn't like what you have done and finds you guilty of said LEGAL activity, it becomes pecident and said activity becomes ILLEGAL and becomes law. It's how the system works here in canada.

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


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## tilly

yes you are correct and that ruling has the potential to affect home aquarium and pond owners


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## Foxtail

What were you charged with? Breeding fish with intent to sell? Or?

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


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## tilly

hi 
first charged with illegal hatchery and illegal aquaculture 
in the end I was charged with illegal aquaculture


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## tilly

there is a lot more but to spit out 11 years of bs is not done in a couple hours


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## neven

Just to point out a possible mirroring of this situation here. We are in a province that is quite vested into farmed salmon. Major liberal backbenchers own and operate many farms. it is in there interest to be the sole face of sustainable aquaculture. Now comes tilapia knocking on the door. Its a fish that can be easily farmed closed pen where outside influence can be limited allowing them to gain the organic and sustainable labels. The words closed pen fish farming is pure evil to many in government and they have invested much dollars into showing that open pen is the only way. Having a research project like tilly's could in fact lead the way to large scale tilapia farming in Canada for consumption rather than feed. Now if someone refuses the farmed salmon organic labelling, they definitely do not want tilapia to get a foot hold. those who fund the government get their way here in bc and i am sure its the same back east

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## macframalama

another question.... why did you seek approval to have fish? is this because you were intending on farming tilapia? for the sale to the public? weather it has happened or not your long term intent is to sell a "food fish" right


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## tilly

neven you have actually hit the nail on the head more than you know 
Salmon started here and then went west ,same people ,The senior government staff have become entrenched and have been making laws only for themselves not for the good of canadians .
The amount of money,s paid out have been so high it is unreal 
We are sending government people around the world to promote expertize that we do not have 
all these people have done is create more vaccines and more drugs 
husbandary smarts has not appeared


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## tilly

my intent is very clearly spelled out in documents that will be released at the proper time ,this is because court is still ongoing in regards to sentencing and future legal and this is why I am not to say, due to the fact of refusal of disclosure .These are tropical fish at this time that is what they are .and so far I still own them


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## tilly

computer seems to be working way better than before


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## macframalama

I say bring on the tilapia, if half the eastern world lives off of it why couldnt we partake in some of the bounty, tilly good luck with your fish farm, the salmon industry has taken a beating for a long time, and if tilapia would ease some of the pressure of OUR natural wonders then im all for it and if YOU made some bucks off of it then good for you , the govt screws people over hourly, WHY WOULD YOU BE DIFFERENT lol,

i still cant see what you did as far as break any laws so it seems like bs to me
so there are only 2 options when dealing with officials as it seems to me, 
either lube up and take it in the tail pipe , or fight , but if you choose to fight you better have the* bucks* because the govt will draw this bs on for so long you will run out of resources before you are ever allowed to win or make a big stink get you face on the news, just excersise caution because saying the wrong words when it comes to salmon industry can make enemies fast.. as im sure your figuring out


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## tilly

I have been in court on a summary for appr 3 years now and it is not cheap 
and as far as the salmon industry, they already know about me .tilapia is the second most cultivated fish in the world ,carp first 
the next fish the industry is going to promote is the tilapia ,so now we the tax payer will many many millions for development 
as here salmon was 100% tax payer funded . In 11 years have done over commercial densities and never used antibiotics 
plant trials on various organic feed mixtures all on my dime ,as the story unfolds you will see how the aquaculture industry works


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## effox

Hi David, being a concerned aquarist I checked the NB court index however couldn't find your case let alone any additional details that you may not have been able to provide with your computer on the fritz.

Is there a specific court file number that you could provide for me?

Thanks in advance,
Chris


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## macframalama

ohhhhhhhhhhhh snap lol


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## Scherb

I have said it before and it will say it again. The Mafia never went away they just became the government.  Cheers


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## macframalama

who says the mafia werent scapegoats


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## macframalama

all i hear is crickets... weird


effox said:


> Hi David, being a concerned aquarist I checked the NB court index however couldn't find your case let alone any additional details that you may not have been able to provide with your computer on the fritz.
> 
> Is there a specific court file number that you could provide for me?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Chris


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## tilly

eeeefox
You could call moncton provincial court big brand new building and ask if David Jones v Agriculture Aquaculture NB
according to the new lawyer's office next court date is aug 31 prob at 9.30 so check it out 
there is not to many aquaculture cases lol


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## tilly

And now about crickets I must have forgot to tell you that I have fish so that means lookin after them so my time has always been 
busy 
and I forgot to tell you I have a job


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## macframalama

there is no question dave jones has a case now in my mind, the question im wondering is if you sir are David Jones?


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## misdem

macframalama said:


> there is no question dave jones has a case now in my mind, the question im wondering is if you sir are David Jones?


Top of the third page.



tilly said:


> I am David Jones
> And I did nothing illegal


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

Sorry, I tried to Google your case to read about this "aquaculture" issue but can't find the case. I am a fish farmer by education & used to work in the industry so this case is very interesting to me. I know they are legally farming tilapia on Vancouver Island (I think around Nanaimo) so would like to read up the court's case against your operation. A friend of mine actually quit the salmon farm we were working at to move there to work in tilapia farming around 1999 or 2000. My last "regular" job was being in charge of feeding 3.5 million salmon smolts and taking care of the farm's onsite hatchery at night. 

I also used to raise tilapia in the early 80s (1984 to be exact). The main problem I found with tilapia farming in a northern climate is they are a tropical species and you would need a very large, steady source of heated water or waste hot water pumped through a heat exchanger to heat up clean cold water to the right temperature. So while Tilapia is an excellent species to farm in tropical climates, not ideal for Canada. So if you could post a link to the case or some other info (I tried Googling your "David Jones v .... NB" and no case showed up. I've been considering getting some small tilapia and raising them inside my new greenhouse over the summer months and harvest them when it gets too cold. So, yes, I am extremely interested in learning more about this case.

Thanks,

Anthony


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## tilly

seahorse fanatic 
There has been no media coverage at all 
but the case file no 30116701 R v David Jones 
yes redfish ranch has tilapia and if you look into media releases you will find he had a very hard time to get started .I believe he said the word government acrimony ,but mean while carla was being 100 % sponsored on the east coast 
and 5 farms in sponsored in ontario.
Guess who owned the broodstock ,,,Stolts now owned by marine harvest
I am very interested in any previous fish farmers that had a difficult time due to government and competition


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## macframalama

red fish ranch in courtenay bc has a tilapia farm aswell


SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Sorry, I tried to Google your case to read about this "aquaculture" issue but can't find the case. I am a fish farmer by education & used to work in the industry so this case is very interesting to me. I know they are legally farming tilapia on Vancouver Island (I think around Nanaimo) so would like to read up the court's case against your operation. A friend of mine actually quit the salmon farm we were working at to move there to work in tilapia farming around 1999 or 2000. My last "regular" job was being in charge of feeding 3.5 million salmon smolts and taking care of the farm's onsite hatchery at night.
> 
> I also used to raise tilapia in the early 80s (1984 to be exact). The main problem I found with tilapia farming in a northern climate is they are a tropical species and you would need a very large, steady source of heated water or waste hot water pumped through a heat exchanger to heat up clean cold water to the right temperature. So while Tilapia is an excellent species to farm in tropical climates, not ideal for Canada. So if you could post a link to the case or some other info (I tried Googling your "David Jones v .... NB" and no case showed up. I've been considering getting some small tilapia and raising them inside my new greenhouse over the summer months and harvest them when it gets too cold. So, yes, I am extremely interested in learning more about this case.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Anthony


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## macframalama

this thread is weird


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## arash53

is this the same fish you guys are talking about ?


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## tilly

Did anyone check to see if there is a court date


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## effox

I hope all works out for you David, I appreciate the case file number.


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## tilly

Well I am back 
Have now been sentenced for illegal aquaculture 
Their is now a publication ban on the audio of my sentence


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## tilly

This court case is one for the history books 
People of Canada should really pay attention to this court case as it envolves the top government officials and the basics of Canadian law 
This case has left the world of fish and gone into the administration of justice and rules of court


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## tilly

*500 fish*

Judge rules that because I had approximate 500 fish ,this is all sizes including fry .that makes it aquaculture 
think about that


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## sunshine_1965

Sounds to me that all you needed was a business license. There are many of us that have 500+ fish when our fish have fry. I could not find anything on said case but whatever. I also have never seen anything on the news about it. Something this big changing the laws about fish keeping should be all over the place. Post up a link here for us all to read if this is true. I call BS on this thread.


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## macframalama

if you read back i called bs like post #2


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## sunshine_1965

I did see that way back in the beginning of this thread but was waiting to read all the way through in hopes to see a link to said court case. It seems that there is nothing available online.


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## macframalama

cuz bs , doesnt go to court, i have had like 3000 fish in my house at one time , so i guess im a law breaker too, christ better hope no large species sa/ca cichlid has babies in your house or the feds are gonna raid ya lol
i wish they would have came would have been easier for them to confiscate those devils than have to try and give them away lol


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## tilly

case file no was posted here 
so before you call bs you should have spent the buck and phoned the court
this was a public trial


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## Elle

Was it available on the NB court search? I just checked here and couldn't find it.

NB Courts - Public Self-Serve Website

Sorry to hear that it didn't go well.


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## ThePhoenix

Tilly makes vague comments, is from the opposite end of the country, posts 2-3 lines cut in weird places, doesnt answer direct questions, provides bogus court file numbers that no one can find, cannot sufficiently explain why he was arrested in the first place, cannot explain how he was convicted of a crime for which there was no search warrant issued, cannot explain why all this happened when he has federal and provincial permits, etc etc etc

This whole thing screams of BS.


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## macframalama

but the real question is WHY do this perhaps he wasnt hugged enough as a youth, seeking attention from a group of strangers as we coddle him for his unjust persecution

lmao im playing, but its weird alright


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## ThePhoenix

some people feel the need to be center of attention by creating false scenarios when they happen to know a little bit about a story. Then they try to make it last as long as possible by being vague, not answering direct questions, giving out info no one else can verfiy, etc etc etc


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## JohnnyAppleSnail

For a Guy who is "supposedly" faking it He has a pretty convincing Blog,why are there always People out there ready to trash someone without the facts,like he said it was a public trial if You don't believe Him call the New Brunswick Courthouse,the Fella probably went through alot of Hell,Stress, and Money. I for one believe Him. If He desires to be more specific to prove it to People it's up to him.

rotted fin 2: Illegal Aquaculture (tilapia) January 10 2012

Also,if certain people have a backbone an apologie(s) is probably in order.

Cmon' why the heck would someone make this up....please....really!?


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## tilly

Thank you JohnnyAppleSnail
There will be a lot more public very soon 
will be posting the full story ,but it will in parts as I have work to do as well 
Some documents have been finally been scanned and will be putting on internet in the next 24 hours


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## tilly

*direct question*

what vague comments are you talking about 
what search warrant or is there something that you missed ,there was no warrant, are you starting to see one of the first problems 
maybe if you start looking into who the judge was you may start to understand more 
then check who her husband is 
then check who the father inlaw was ,(passed away now )


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## tilly

And as far as coddling you are a little off base 
I have been raising fish since I was nine and now in my sixties and i asure you that i do not need the attention that you seem so sure that I need . started as a home hobbyist so when things became the way they are now I thought it would be good for people like you to no what is going on in the big world .
Why did the cfia post a disease for the importation of nile tilapia that the fish is not prone to ?


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## tilly

has this thread bin stopped or is it that there are no comments


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## Diztrbd1

it's still active, just no comments lately


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## tilly

well thank you 
This is a little deeper than most people realize 
this is just canadian news that aint news yet 
tilapia is moving into the first place as the most cultivated aquaculture food source in the world 
and so it is important that it is fully controlled or you mite grow your own 
and it is the home hobbyist who is and always has been the leader in innovation


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## macframalama

this certain person has backbone however this thread has been weird from day 1
there is no question that someone has some ongoing court preceding but weather this tilly is that person remains to be seen,

between the other side of the country using bca as the source for this post is weird to me, and the weird chopped up speach and confusingly vauge comments, and the long gaps between posts its all weird..
weird i tells ya... 
so if by some happenstance this "tilly" can verify that he is in fact the infamous David Jones who is under such direst from this home-based tilapia mill then I will stand corrected .. but the likelihood of that happening is slim...


JohnnyAppleSnail said:


> For a Guy who is "supposedly" faking it He has a pretty convincing Blog,why are there always People out there ready to trash someone without the facts,like he said it was a public trial if You don't believe Him call the New Brunswick Courthouse,the Fella probably went through alot of Hell,Stress, and Money. I for one believe Him. If He desires to be more specific to prove it to People it's up to him.
> 
> rotted fin 2: Illegal Aquaculture (tilapia) January 10 2012
> 
> Also,if certain people have a backbone an apologie(s) is probably in order.
> 
> Cmon' why the heck would someone make this up....please....really!?


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