# whats your favorite biomedia?



## Mferko

was just reading on seachems website and they claim matrix has 10X the surface area of eheim biosubstrat pro.

my question is do you believe these claims? which media do you use vs which do you think is the best? effectiveness should be weighed more heavily than cost (imo, in other words lets not be comparing pot scrubbers with the matrix lol)

here is the quote from seachem:

BET surface area measurements indicate that Matrix contains nearly 10 times the specificsurface area of Substrat Pro, and more than 20 times the specific surface area of MicroMec. Practically all the specific surface area of both Substrat Pro and MicroMec are in the range of pore diameters to be biologically useful, while some of the surface area of Matrix is in pores that are reserved for physical and chemical processes, not biological processes. Estimates from two different pore geometries indicate that Matrix contains between 4 to 4 ½ times the biologically active surface area of Substrat Pro, and between 8 to 9 times the biologically active surface area of MicroMec.

http://www.seachem.com/support/SpecificSurface.pdf


----------



## neven

There is a lot of information out there on whats the best, but i hardly find a need for using ceramic based media for a properly stocked tank. A lot of filter media comparisons come from the monster tank crowd and their information skews the facts on what works and what doesn't for your standard community tank crowd.

The simple truth is that using even basic aquarium foam in all your chambers will allow for beneficial bacteria growth that will be more than sufficient for your fish loads even in a mildly overstocked tank. I personally go for pot scrubbers, which again has a lot of misinformation with it. They are ideal for a wet dry filter set up but still do really well in a canister filter, they just don't compare well to *surface area* cintered ceramics. I see it as why would i spend money on media that i dont need when $2 of pot scrubbers (made to be in contact of food we eat) can fill up my filter and provide an excellent amount of surface area for bacteria to grow. Plus they are a breeze to clean when compared to the ceramics.

The biggest issue to me isn't the surface area, i only care that i have enough, and as long as my filter chamber is full of something, i know i do. Further more there is arguments that fully planted tank do not need to focus on bio filtration at all, the mechanical will house whatever is needed to compliment the plant uptake (and tank surface area for bio-film). Maintenance is the biggest issue. Ceramics can clog easier, are more of a pain to clean, whereas sponges and pot scrubbers are easily cleans by shaking around and squeezing. I prefer to keep most of my mechanical filtration on my intake through a massive sponge prefilter that does an excellent job of trapping particulate so the media doesn't need cleaning as often.


----------



## Mferko

from the reading ive been doing, bioavailable surface area is whats important when talking about media, and volume when talking about the filter, and overall biological effectiveness would be surface area X volume (but the pores also need to be a certain size)

i could see using potscrubbers for mechanical but for bio it seems rather silly to go buy a 400 dollar cannister filter that holds 12L of media and then fill it with potscrubbers making it about as biologically effective as a 100 dollar cannister with 1L volume and media with 20x the bioavailable surface area even tho the media costs you 20 dollars. if i have the fancy filter i want the best biomedia in it so that the money spent on the filter isnt wasted. 

as for maintenance matrix claims that the vast majority of the bacteria is inside the actual media and rinsing is not a problem, my eheim biosubstrat i just rinse once every 6 months with tank water and havent noticed a loss in its effectiveness but its only been just over a year.

i dont really like planted tanks to be honest i just want the fastest possible conversion of ammonia and nitrite to nitrate so that my fish are as healthy as possible.

lastly lots of plastic products designed to be in contact with our food (keep in mind thats dirty food not the stuff going into your mouth) contain endocrine disruptors and i dont want to be running warm water past that at high speeds in my setup, even if the amount in the water at any time is almost negligible which im sure it is, large amounts of plastic is just something i dont want in the tank its not worth the risk, i want the fish to breed and i dont want all females.


----------



## rgrling

Every company's product is the greatest thing since sliced bread (which is not a good biomedia, btw.)  At the end of the day, no one has done any conclusive testing of the company's claims, so we're left with personal experiences and opinions.

I think surface area is only one of the factors in maintaining a large and healthy bacteria colony. So many other things come into play: nutrients, flow rate, plants, tank capacity, fish stocking, filter bypass, etc, etc. Since each person's setup is different and unique, it's easy to see how two people can use the same biomedia and have different experiences, and subsequently hold opposite opinions about the media.

In my XP3s, I decided to incorporate all the different brands out there for media, so I have Rena foam, filter floss, no name ceramic rings, Eheim SubStrat Pro, and SeaChem Matrix. For my other canisters, I have dollar store scrub pads and pot scubbers. The fish are happy, so I'm happy.


----------



## Mferko

been thinking along those lines rgrling maybe it makes sense to mix, and possibly even to rinse the trays at different times.
i just got a 2080 and ive ordered 5L of ehfimech, 5L of biosubstrat pro... and someone else is trading me another 2L of the biosub pro for the full 12L... but im wondering if it would be better to sell 1L of the mech and 3L of the subpro and end up with the bottom tray full of mech, the next full of matrix and the last full of substrat pro?

hoping to get experience from people who have been running canisters for a long time, the fish im getting can be very sensitive to water quality - i want them as happy and healthy as possible.


----------



## oakley1984

without a doubt the ehiem substrat pro is 10x the biomedia that seachem matrix is... if your planning to go the cheap route.. then seachem matrix will defiantly work... however if cost isn't an issue the substrat pro is by far superior media....

i run BOTH types of media personally! so my information is based on first hand experience vs things that are posted online.


----------



## Mferko

hm thats good to hear since i alrdy paid for the biosubstrat


----------



## deepRED

How do you quantify that?

I run various types of bio-media as well, including these two, but I find it really difficult to say one is better than the other.

Unless you are running two identical setups, with the same filter, same amount of media and same stocking and feeding regimens, there are too many x-factors to really say.

In my opinion, if you have the space, go with the cheapest media you can find as it will work the same way. If you have limited space in your filter, you can go with the premium (higher surface area) media. 
Really, it's more important to have good mechanical pre-filtration as it is crucial in assuring proper efficiency.

You can have a garbage can full of the best bio-media running, but it's not going to do anything to make your water cleaner. Once your tank is settled there is only enough bacteria present to match the amount of waste being produced. The bacteria have to feed on something. So unless you are feeding a ton of food per day ( I know some of the monster keepers are) or your tank is grossly overstocked, it is simply not necessary to go crazy.

At the end of the day, the best filtration and media available do not replace good husbandry practices such as proper stocking, routine maintenance and regular water changes.
This is made most clear in saltwater aquaria. Not too long ago wet-dry filters were the best thing going for saltwater tanks. They are highly effective bio-filters. What most hobbyists found out was that you can have the most efficient bio-filtration, but the end result is nitrate. The wet dry filters worked very well at doing their job, but you still have to remove the nitrate from the closed system. 
Where am I going with this?
Basically don't overthink it. Having the most efficient bio-media is not the be-all, end-all. Focus more on the other things and your fish will thank you for it.



oakley1984 said:


> without a doubt the ehiem substrat pro is 10x the biomedia that seachem matrix is... if your planning to go the cheap route.. then seachem matrix will defiantly work... however if cost isn't an issue the substrat pro is by far superior media....
> 
> i run BOTH types of media personally! so my information is based on first hand experience vs things that are posted online.


----------



## neven

Mferko said:


> i could see using potscrubbers for mechanical but for bio it seems rather silly to go buy a 400 dollar cannister filter that holds 12L of media and then fill it with potscrubbers making it about as biologically effective as a 100 dollar cannister with 1L volume and media with 20x the bioavailable surface area even tho the media costs you 20 dollars. if i have the fancy filter i want the best biomedia in it so that the money spent on the filter isnt wasted.


The best isn't always the priciest, there is always the newest and greatest bio media being developped but the truth is, our filters aren't shrinking while these bio media's surface area increases. Whats the point going for the largest surface area and dropping money in it if its not going to do any better for you. The amount of bacteria is dependent on your fish waste and left over food.

I know my choice is pot scrubbers and likely wont be yours so im not trying to convert you to that preference, but you'd be suprised at how well pot scrubbers do at bio filtering.

take a peak here : Bio Filter Media for Ponds and Koi, the pot scrubbers beat several commercial non ceramic media's at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## tony1928

I always thought that potscrubbers were effective for wet/dry setups but not ideal for canisters. Thoughts?


----------



## Mferko

wet/dry as in sump where space is less of a concern yes?
to me that makes more sense, putting potscrubbers in a big eheim cannister seems like running regular in a porsche


----------



## neven

You'd be suprised just how many people run pot scrubber only for bio media on large filters like fx5s. There are a lot of people who view things differently mferko, they get the filter they need for their tank, and they get what is sufficient (or more than enough). They however do not like spending money to completely overkill it.

I've never seen anyone say they had issues in their tank because they used pot scrubbers in their cannister. I've seen plenty say they've used them, and some for 10+ years. The only issues i've seen come up is when people skipped mechanical filteration and had them clog.


----------



## Mferko

yes, but this is after creating a thread telling people my needs and asking which cannister to buy, people said the classic 2217 wasnt enough, i was not assuming they meant with potscrubbers but with the eheim media included, i was instructed to get the 2080 which they said has about 4x the capacity, its also 3x the price, also in that thread was no mention of using potscrubbers.
i specifically asked in the first post of this thread to not even bring up potscrubbers, i was simply wondering if i should combine matrix or some other media with biosubstrat pro that ive alrdy ordered

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/equi.../eheim-classic-2217-eheim-2075-pro-3-a-13431/

this is going on a 125 gallon cichlid tank


----------



## deepRED

The filter issue has more to do with overall volume and flow rate.

If you have the eheim, just stick with that. No need to mix with anything else.

If you have space, by all means pack more in there, but you might not see any real improvement in performance. Also keep in mind that the more that's packed into the filter the slower the flow rate will become. That might not be an issue since your filter is a beast, but in a smaller unit it becomes a point to consider.



Mferko said:


> yes, but this is after creating a thread telling people my needs and asking which cannister to buy, people said the classic 2217 wasnt enough, i was not assuming they meant with potscrubbers but with the eheim media included, i was instructed to get the 2080 which they said has about 4x the capacity, its also 3x the price, also in that thread was no mention of using potscrubbers.
> i specifically asked in the first post of this thread to not even bring up potscrubbers, i was simply wondering if i should combine matrix or some other media with biosubstrat pro that ive alrdy ordered
> 
> http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/equi.../eheim-classic-2217-eheim-2075-pro-3-a-13431/
> 
> this is going on a 125 gallon cichlid tank


----------



## bonsai dave

Hey Mike you can't go wrong with the ehiem media . I have been using their media since 1997 . I still have the substrate from my frist ehiem filter it has not broken down. The seachem matrix looks just like the old version of substrate. I have used the matrix and substrate pro. I like the substrate pro a lot more than the regular size matrix media. I have also used the pond size matrix in my filters but I didn't like it as much as regular size martix. Another cheap substrate you can use in filters are lava rocks from garden centers. I know a few people that use them in their pond filters and one friend has been using them for over 10 years and with no problems . He has close to $ 10,000 worth of koi in his pond.


----------



## deepRED

Hey Dave, just out of curiosity, what made you like one type over the other?
In other words, what are your criteria for ranking one over the other?


The one thing I'll say about lava rock is that they get clogged really easily because of the pore size, so without good pre-filtration, you may have to replace them over time. That is why I swapped it out for scrubbies in my pond filter, because effectively they are easier to clean and unclog. It may not be noticable in a huge pond filter for the first bit, but there was a noted drop in efficiency and I swapped it out after 5 years.


----------



## Mferko

Discus Dave said:


> Hey Mike you can't go wrong with the ehiem media . I have been using their media since 1997 . I still have the substrate from my frist ehiem filter it has not broken down. The seachem matrix looks just like the old version of substrate. I have used the matrix and substrate pro. I like the substrate pro a lot more than the regular size matrix media. I have also used the pond size matrix in my filters but I didn't like it as much as regular size martix. Another cheap substrate you can use in filters are lava rocks from garden centers. I know a few people that use them in their pond filters and one friend has been using them for over 10 years and with no problems . He has close to $ 10,000 worth of koi in his pond.


thx Dave exactly the kind of testimony im lookin for, thats cool it hasnt broken down for 13 years, guess you definitely dont need to replace it every once in a while like eheim would like us to for $ reasons 

the 2080 has a large prefilter and im gonna use the bottom tray full of mech, dont think clogging media should be much of an issue


----------

