# Wondering about others KH and GH



## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

So I got an API KH/GH test kit the other day and my numbers seem to be not what I would have expected. 

Starting with the GH test, test is complete when water turns from orange to green. Well, it never even starts as orange...it's just a very and I mean very pale greenish tinge from the first drop. I figured it was sufficiently green after 9 drops meaning 9 degrees GH? This doesn't seem right to me. Sooo I tried water straight from the tap, same thing.

Moved onto KH. It's supposed to turn "bright yellow" from blue when complete. Well, that's pretty subjective really as there was no blue from the first drop added. Started as pale yellow then obviously got more yellow with each drop. I basically called it 4-5, not really sure though.

Both reagent bottles are well within expiration dates. The instructions just don't leave me feeling very confident in the levels I'm trying to measure.

Comments or advice?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

do you add any GH/KH buffers?? our tap water is VERY soft( low GH/KH)..


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## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

jhj0112 said:


> do you add any GH/KH buffers?? our tap water is VERY soft( low GH/KH)..


Haven't added any buffers. Ph is 6, Aquasoil for substrate and dosing daily with PPS-pro. I purchased Seachem Alkalinity and Equilibrium at the same time as I got the test kits figuring I'd need them. Who knows, maybe I do but these test kits seem to be inconclusive to me for the most part.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

you need to add seachem buffer in your water. I had the same problem.. I asked BCAers about it as well and I have been using seachem buffers since..


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

Out of the tap in Surrey, this time of year kH should be between 1-2 and GH of 0-1 

Kh should turn from blue to yellow at the endpoint of the test
And Gh should turn from green to yellow

Ideally shoot for a KH of 2-5 and. Gh of 3-10 for most freshwater fish


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## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

Algae Beater said:


> Out of the tap in Surrey, this time of year kH should be between 1-2 and GH of 0-1
> 
> Kh should turn from blue to yellow at the endpoint of the test
> And Gh should turn from green to yellow
> ...


That's my problem with the test kits, they never presented the initial colors that they were supposed to.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

It is my understanding that you count the zero drop as well so zero drop means gh=1 and 1 drop means gh=2...else you could have a gh=0.
Once you add some buffer you should be able to see the color change I believe.


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## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

Fish rookie said:


> It is my understanding that you count the zero drop as well so zero drop means gh=1 and 1 drop means gh=2...else you could have a gh=0.
> Once you add some buffer you should be able to see the color change I believe.


After talking to someone from Aquariums West, I think this is correct. I've added Seachem Equilibrium and Alkaline and will retest later with an update.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Our water is very very soft. What kind of fish are you keeping? Different fish prefer different dH.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Yup... it's pretty reasonable for the water to come out 0/0 for Kh and GH. My tap water over here has a TDS of about 30 ppm; which is essentially nothing.

Also, Seachem Alkaline buffer is just baking soda in a fancy package. Might as well get it at the grocery store for a 10th the price.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

Try taking a water sample to a LFS and get them to test it.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Most likely your readings are zero or very minimal. I had the same thing happen to me. Once you add the new products you will see the color change easily in the KH test kit. The GH is always a pain to read.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

You only need the carbonate ion to increase pH so baking soda will work just fine as far as your pH is concerned.
Alkaline buffer is calcium carbonate; while baking soda is sodium carbonate, if I am not mistaken.
By the way, kH is a measure of your negative ion (i.e. carbonate CO3--), gH is a measure of your positive ions (i.e. mineral ions such as mg++ ca++...).
Because our water is kind of like rain and glacier water the above ion contents are very low.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

I was wondering that too about test results on the API kits. My tap water is about 7KH and 8GH but what if I'm not testing correctly? The water never turns bright yellow. I wasn't sure if the drop that changes the colour is where you stop dropping or do you keep dropping until it's really, really yellow? I decided to go by the last drop it takes to change colour. The instructions aren't clear enough. Are there fancy digital test kits? I feel the "hold the test tube to the colour strip" is quite subjective. Lower mainland water...I miss it a bit. I have a % of my w/c water as RO water to bring the KH/GH down.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Fish rookie said:


> Alkaline buffer is calcium carbonate; while baking soda is sodium carbonate, if I am not mistaken.


You'd think so right? But no. As it happens, calcium carbonate doesn't dissolve well enough to use in buffer mixes (believe me... I've tried. It dissolves a little bit; but most of it just sits there). Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is the easiest, cheapest buffer you can get your hands on; so it gets used in everything (aside from the phosphate based ones). Seachem doesn't really care to spread that around (nor would I if I had that kind of markup); but they do admit to using bicarb on their FAQ



greenfin said:


> I was wondering that too about test results on the API kits. My tap water is about 7KH and 8GH but what if I'm not testing correctly? The water never turns bright yellow. I wasn't sure if the drop that changes the colour is where you stop dropping or do you keep dropping until it's really, really yellow? I decided to go by the last drop it takes to change colour. The instructions aren't clear enough. Are there fancy digital test kits? I feel the "hold the test tube to the colour strip" is quite subjective. Lower mainland water...I miss it a bit. I have a % of my w/c water as RO water to bring the KH/GH down.


You'd stop as soon as soon as it starts to change colour. If you hit the end point exactly it'll look green. If you want to double check, look at the water quality report from your utility. They'd call it Alkalinity (which is the proper name for what we call KH). For example, I used to swipe water from the UBC campus (my apartment was on a well and used a water softener); which is on the Glenmore Ellison Water Supply. The alkalinity there is supposed to be around 60-80 ppm (which you divide by 17.9 to get 3.3-4.4 degrees KH).


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I agree cost wise it is a no brainer that baking soda is the way to go. I can get a box from the dollar store for $1-2 and it will last me a very long time. 

I do suspect however if one only adds aquarium salt (sodium chloride) to boost gH along with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) then the water could be lacking calcium. Epsom salt is sometimes used by some people along with aquarium salt to boost gH and that covers the important magnesium ions for osmoregulation for fish but either baking soda, epsom salt, nor aquarium salt provides a source of calcium. I am not sure if that may post a problem in the long run for the health of the fish due to a lack of calcium in the water column.

I would like to hear others thought on this. Thanks.


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## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the input on this subject. Point of interest, retested the water this morning with little change. However just out of curiosity, just after doing the KH test I decided to add a little Seachem Alkaline (baking soda) to the test tube. It immediately turned blue so at least it's confirmed that the original test results were just to low to start with...so there's that.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

fishface said:


> Thanks for all the input on this subject. Point of interest, retested the water this morning with little change. However just out of curiosity, just after doing the KH test I decided to add a little Seachem Alkaline (baking soda) to the test tube. It immediately turned blue so at least it's confirmed that the original test results were just to low to start with...so there's that.


If you are using Seachem Alkaline buffer it'a designed to be used with Seachem Acid buffer also. You don't have to use both but it's recomended. If you read up on Seachem's webpage there is info on it. Depending on your desired Ph/Kh. You use more Alkaline than you do Acid. Its seems weird but it explains it all on the bottle.


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## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

I really don't want to turn this into a numbers chasing game. Just want to simply raise my gh and kh. Hopefully this can be achieved without having to add too much product, so I'll see what happens if I don't add the acid buffer(since I don't happen to have any on hand at the moment anyhow).

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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

fishface said:


> Thanks for all the input on this subject. Point of interest, retested the water this morning with little change. However just out of curiosity, just after doing the KH test I decided to add a little Seachem Alkaline (baking soda) to the test tube. It immediately turned blue so at least it's confirmed that the original test results were just to low to start with...so there's that.


Yes, you are right. Your water is like mine probably too soft to begin with. You can add some alkaline buffer to stop your pH from crushing and some seachem equilibrium to increase the gH to help the fish with their osmoregulation. How much to add really depends on what your fish are and how you keep them and things like that. I am sure the people at aquarium west can help you with that. Good luck.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

I use baking soda, non-iodized salt, and epsom salt to buffer my water. The baking soda adjusts the pH, the non-iodized salt the gH, and the epsom salt the kH if I remember correctly. I use 1 tsp of baking soda, 1 tsp of non-iodized salt, and 1 tbsp of epsom salt per 5 gallons of water changed which brings my water up to a pH of around 9.0 and my gH and kH in the 30s if I remember correctly (haven't tested those in over 6 months). I also have crushed coral which helps to buffer my water. You could try and adjust the amounts to get lower pH/kH/gH if you wanted to.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am experiencing using crushed coral in my discus tank now but I did not add alkaline buffer/baking soda. However, my pH still goes down from 7 to 6.6 overnight with about 1.5 pounds of crushed coral in a bag placed on the substrate. When I placed the crushed coral in my filter pH went up to 7.8 overnight. I think I just need to find the right amount of crushed coral perhaps? It is interesting to hear that you are also using baking soda with crushed coral. May be I will try that.

In my goldfish tank, I use epsom salt, baking soda, and equilibrium to keep the pH, kH and gH up. I use about 1 teaspoon for 10 gallon and my pH is about 7.8 as a result of that. If I do not have live plant I will just use sea salt cos it is much cheaper than equilibrium. I heard some people add a bit of instant ocean as well for more mineral.

I am not sure if it is beneficial or does not matter at all whether there is calcium in the water. If only salt, baking soda and epsom are used in a tank without any source to provide calcium will the fish be sick because they are deprived of calcium?


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

If you can age your water for the discus (heater + air stone for ~24 hrs) the pH will stabilize before you put it into the tank which won't affect the fish and then you can keep your water soft and pH lower (since discus want that). I tried to keep discus but couldn't do it without aging my water.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

You'd stop as soon as soon as it starts to change colour. If you hit the end point exactly it'll look green. If you want to double check, look at the water quality report from your utility. They'd call it Alkalinity (which is the proper name for what we call KH). For example, I used to swipe water from the UBC campus (my apartment was on a well and used a water softener); which is on the Glenmore Ellison Water Supply. The alkalinity there is supposed to be around 60-80 ppm (which you divide by 17.9 to get 3.3-4.4 degrees KH).[/QUOTE].

We pump and treat our own water out of Okanagan Lake. I'm not sure what the lake is. I might be able to figure it out. Thanks for the formula.


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## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

Well one thing's for sure, keeping your gh at a minimum of say 4dh is going get to be a bit of a costly proposition if I continued to use Equilibrium.

Based on a 75g tank and I want to raise my gh from 0 to say 4dh, requires 15 X (16g) dosings equaling a total of 240g of Eq. which is about a third of the bottle. I realize that I only need to dose subsequently for the percentage of my waterchange makeup water but still, sure is alot. Most definitely going to have to try the DIY method of Epsom salts and CaSo4 to try and bring the cost down. 

And on that note, has anyone here added Dap Plaster of Paris to their tank as a CaSo4 supplement (Homedepot (2kg/ $4.99)? Apparently, based on the MSDS sheet it's 75% CaSo4, 25% CaCo3 and like .1% silica. Or, I also understand it can be found at some health food stores as a ingredient for making tofu or through some U Brew outlets for making beer...

Anyone gone down this road?


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Yup. Best bang for the buck. Make your DIY mixture. Epson salt, plaster of paris.
Here's all the info:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=equi...pv=210&q=barr's+gh+booster+recipe&safe=active

And if you do a quick search on this forum, lots of info on this topic.


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

If you're looking for a cheap, soluble source of calcium, use calcium chloride. My DIY formula for my goldfish was Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt for GH, Baking Soda for pH and KH. Easiest place to find Calcium Chloride it is at pool supply stores. Your dosage of Equilibrium in a 75g doesn't sound quite right. When I use Equilibrium, IIRC, I added 3 tablespoons of it to my 125g after a 50% water change. That gives me approx. 5dGH reading. I use Kent R/O Right now - a tablespoon for the same tank after a 50% water change, but you cannot get accurate GH readings with the API test kits with Kent - you need to use a tds meter.


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## fishface (Apr 29, 2012)

hp10BII said:


> If you're looking for a cheap, soluble source of calcium, use calcium chloride. My DIY formula for my goldfish was Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt for GH, Baking Soda for pH and KH. Easiest place to find Calcium Chloride it is at pool supply stores. Your dosage of Equilibrium in a 75g doesn't sound quite right. When I use Equilibrium, IIRC, I added 3 tablespoons of it to my 125g after a 50% water change. That gives me approx. 5dGH reading. I use Kent R/O Right now - a tablespoon for the same tank after a 50% water change, but you cannot get accurate GH readings with the API test kits with Kent - you need to use a tds meter.


Whooops, you are correct about my math, definitely messed that up so thanks for pointing it out. As for the calcium chloride you mentioned, I understand that for a planted tank the So4 in plaster of paris is preferred to the chloride in CaCl2. I find it interesting that you require a tds meter for GH readings when you use R/O Right, is there some sort of direct conversion between tds and dh?


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

fishface said:


> Whooops, you are correct about my math, definitely messed that up so thanks for pointing it out. As for the calcium chloride you mentioned, I understand that for a planted tank the So4 in plaster of paris is preferred to the chloride in CaCl2. I find it interesting that you require a tds meter for GH readings when you use R/O Right, is there some sort of direct conversion between tds and dh?


My tanks are minimally planted now, my fish loves planted plants too much to survive, so the calcium chloride worked for me. I just find it easier working with commercial products for my tanks instead of the DIY I used for goldfish and discus. I didn't see much difference between Equilibrium and Kent R/O Right except that some plants (crypts?) didn't like Equilibrium as much. The way R/O Right is formulated, it cannot get proper readings of the calcium and magnesium content with standard GH test kits.

Direct conversion between dH and tds readings (see what units your tds meter measures)

1 dGH = 17.9ppm = 33Ms


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