# I want my country back



## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

30 years ago Canada and Denmark were very similar places. Let me tell you about the Danes. 

According to survey after survey, the happiest people on earth are the Danes. Denmark is heavily unionized, has the highest tax rates in the world, a minimum wage of over $20 per hour, a minimum tax of 50%, *free university* for all - in fact you get _*paid*_ to go to post secondary (hear that Quebec students?  ). Cars cost 2 or 3 times what they do in Canada, gas is twice the price, 20% of their electricity is from windmills, and they have "probably the best beer in the world". :lol: I've lived there for years and the place works great. It's too bad that everyone thinks that "European socialism" does not work; Scandinavia and Germany are doing just fine with their socialism (because everyone pays their taxes there and corruption is low).

Canada used to be more like Scandinavia, Harper is making us more like the USA.

I find the people who support Harper and the conservatives are often free market libertarians (keep government small), rugged go-it-alone individualists, with a can-do spirit. These were just the qualities people needed to survive in this land 100 years ago when life was tough and there were no government services to help out the less fortunate. We still need these qualities to keep the free market engine in our economy working. But when it becomes too dominant a way of thinking, especially in relation to seeing the government and a mixed economy as a threat, then we are headed for trouble. When it is the law of the jungle, only the fittest survive. That is social darwinism and it underlies right wing thinking from Ayn Rand to Milton Friedman. We tried that route as a culture and it led to a lot of problems during the last Great Depression. Canada's medicare system was born out of the need for social caring. As we now risk another Great Depression we sadly seem bent on following the same political and economic policies that messed up society back in the 1930's. We need progressive thought, not conservative thought. More than anything we need moderation. Harper speaks in black and white terms when the answers are really grey. Simple "you are either with us or against is" is classic USA right wing Republic nonsense (thanks Dubya Bush) and to see Harper importing it to Canada makes me sick.

Furthermore, Harper does not represent the will of the people. Thanks to vote splitting by the NDP/Liberals/Greens and our first past the post representation system, Harper got majority power with only 40% of the pop vote; keep in mind this is really only 40% of the 60% of Canadian eligible voters who actually voted! This means only 24% of eligible voters chose him and his party. Yet Harper acts as though he has a real sweeping mandate for change! 

Note that Canada's move away from a more social caring country to a right wing mean place follows a big drop in election participation:

Elections Canada Online | Voter Turnout at Federal Elections and Referendums

If any of you want to fight Harper and his policies, make sure you *GET OUT AND VOTE!*


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## Tiwaz (May 5, 2011)

It's funny "make sure you GET OUT AND VOTE!" I did to make sure the Conservatives got in. How many times did the Liberals get a majority under Chretein with 40% because of vote splitting on the right? Where were your complaints then?
I suppose I'll sit back and wait for somebody to call me a ******* or a Neanderthal now.


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

I respect that people hold different views and no one should call you any names.

I just feel frustrated to see Canada suffering a drift to political right, following the USA. I look at the social and economic trends in our society and I don't like what I see.

Too see where we could be headed, just look to the south:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/o...t-need-no-education.html?_r=1&ref=global-home


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## overlord1957 (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi There.
Yes you have the right to sit back and enjoy your life.
I cross my fingers and toes for you to joint the 1% of the Canadian which i doubt that you will be.
And no i will not call you ******* or Neanderthal, i am too Canadian for that.
Cheers and enjoy while it lasts.

Van
By the way i will joint and contribute to any political party willing to GOVERN FOR ALL PEOPLE instead of a fews.


Tiwaz said:


> It's funny "make sure you GET OUT AND VOTE!" I did to make sure the Conservatives got in. How many times did the Liberals get a majority under Chretein with 40% because of vote splitting on the right? Where were your complaints then?
> I suppose I'll sit back and wait for somebody to call me a ******* or a Neanderthal now.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd suggest that "Americanisation" began much earlier. Remember that Mulrooney fellow?


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## overlord1957 (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi.
Yes i remember him, the guy with 300,000$ cash envelop in a hotel room in New york
Cheers.

Van


Ursus sapien said:


> I'd suggest that "Americanisation" began much earlier. Remember that Mulrooney fellow?


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

We should over through the government. and take back our country. seems the only way to save it. Cheers


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

It is called getting involved. I too do not like the way we are going. Every election I ask the candidates questions and let them know my feelings on issues. If I am not happy with any of the candidates running for the big parties, I vote for someone with a smaller party or independent. 

Steve


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

to build on rescuepenguin's statement, the MLA/MP of your area are your representative regardless of who you voted for. Whether its NDP, liberal, green or CPC, voice your concerns over every bit of legislation you have an opinion on, its their job, might aswell make them earn it. Most people don't take that step to complain, I've done it several times despite me strongly disliking my representative.


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

I don't want to become America, and I doubt most Canadians would want to eithier. Its strange how we have fought so hard to become autonomous and yet now our goverment tries so hard to become American.


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## J'sRacing (Apr 25, 2012)

stratos said:


> 30 years ago Canada and Denmark were very similar places. Let me tell you about the Danes.
> 
> According to survey after survey, the happiest people on earth are the Danes. Denmark is heavily unionized, has the highest tax rates in the world, a minimum wage of over $20 per hour, a minimum tax of 50%, *free university* for all - in fact you get _*paid*_ to go to post secondary (hear that Quebec students?  ). Cars cost 2 or 3 times what they do in Canada, gas is twice the price, 20% of their electricity is from windmills, and they have "probably the best beer in the world". :lol: I've lived there for years and the place works great. It's too bad that everyone thinks that "European socialism" does not work; Scandinavia and Germany are doing just fine with their socialism (because everyone pays their taxes there and corruption is low).
> 
> ...


This also must be why the Denmark is a world power right?  
You'd be obsurd to think that by putting a 50% income tax on everyone that the economy will work prosperously. Having a minimum wage of $20 dollars, and then taxing it 50% is no different than having a $10 dollar minimum wage...
And honestly free post secondary? you gotta be kidding, even with the costs of university right now, i see alot of people who shouldn't and don't want to be in post secondary in post secondary. What we need is less moderation and better ways of spending our money. IE remove all those drug rehab places, shelters for bums etc. I am of chinese descent and one phrase that really really means something to me, and so should everyone is approximately: Those who don't contribute, shall not recieve. Or in chinese: 無功者，飯送不留. If you're going to tell me how that system doesn't work. Just look at China. Strongest, wealthiest country in world. Bad example you think? Look at America PRE depression and pre-move towards socialism: strongest and wealthiest country in the world. Still think that thats a example? Look at the United Kingdom at the same political state.


Tiwaz said:


> It's funny "make sure you GET OUT AND VOTE!" I did to make sure the Conservatives got in. How many times did the Liberals get a majority under Chretein with 40% because of vote splitting on the right? Where were your complaints then?
> I suppose I'll sit back and wait for somebody to call me a ******* or a Neanderthal now.


Good, i voted them in too. Only thing i didn't like about Harper was partially ruining our trade relationship with China. But atleast in BC, it hasn't affected us so much. Since alot of our upcoming business are Chinese operated.


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## Danw (Feb 26, 2011)

oh yeah lets become little china, where if you have a second child and if you cant pay the fine, its abortion time. and where if you open your mouth against the government like...



 yeah china sounds amazing. (now im not trying to be a dick but, no country is perfect)


> Just look at China. Strongest, wealthiest country in world. Bad example you think?


 sure they're financially doing well, but for humans right they terrible, The Epoch Times | Chinese Death Camp Revealed i sure don't want to be one of those poor guys. id rather be poor then let my morals erode. the fact is we need a new political system that doesn't just work for the elitist, or the business owners. it should work for the drug addicts, homeless people, the poor, the rich. Democracy is about everyone having a voice. now i don't think we should pull a Cuba. however, i do think there needs to be a wake up call to our government. they are supposed to be public employees. they should have to answer to the public. i mean they muzzled the park employees. Freedom of speech what? (please remember this is a personal opinion.)


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## luckylux99 (Apr 22, 2010)

china is doing well because its the west , aus and the. British that made them rich they didnt get there on there own . second if china is such a great country then why is there so many people immigrating to Canada. it really urks me when i see people bad mouthing a country that they call home .


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## Danw (Feb 26, 2011)

> it really urks me when i see people bad mouthing a country that they call home .


 you are not alone


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## J'sRacing (Apr 25, 2012)

People are immigrating from China to spread their business. Look at who holds the money in Vancouver now? Satellite children my friend, satellite children. By the way, they've got 20% of the world's population. We've only got 0.5% of the world's population. For a country amassing that many people, i'd say they are doing well at managing.

And why the hell would i want to help the drug addicts or the homeless when they are the ones that are breaking into my car and house stealing stuff. Not to mention how they piss the heck out of me everytime i'm in downtown or drive by downtown. Oh and don't forget the 30km/hr zone...

No. Stop subsidizing and regulating everything, if we subsidized and regulated everything our economy would be CRAP. No one would want to do business here. I sure wouldn't. 

And it's not bad mouthing the country i call home. I was born here, raised here. But the amount of "sharing and caring" that i see sometimes is too intense.


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## overlord1957 (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi J's.
Look to me you has not been in China recently.
Canada has a better social safety net than most other country including China.
If Canada government is so bad why we have so much people from other country wanting to come here including Chinese.
standing here and criticize our system is not very fair minded my friend, you should travel more and appreciate what you have here.
That is my 2 cents, feel free to speak up.
Cheers.

Van.
By the way i came from a government similar to China, so i can speak knowing both size of the coil.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

China should never be used to compare economic success to that of a western nation. They steam roll workers rights, they have a strong services industry focussing on breaking other countries laws bu selling ip based goods. They also use a two book fiancial system where one book is for the public and another for the government. They also have deplorable human rights even if you think the death camps and organ harvesting are conspiracy theories. If you underperform there you risk being made an example ofand kiled. This kind of motivation causes corners cut and most of it will be from quality and safety. 

Also to say its chinese business emigrating mainly, that is pure ignorance. I grew up in a predomonately chinese area, the majority of people i knew looked rich but were house poor with expensive leased vehicles to uphold their image. It is chinese culture to appear better off than you are, so dont let that image blind you. I knew many who fled to get away from strict policy especially the 1 child thing. others fled to keep their lives or because they dont agree with a one party government system bent on oppression. Its pretty easy to get caught up in your national heritage, but don't let that blind you from the flaws that caused so many to leave

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## luckylux99 (Apr 22, 2010)

maybe you should go back to china and stay there you obvoisly dont want to be here so go back and enjoy the communist country were you have no right . let your gov control you and then come back and bad mouth Canada you are no Canadian maybe by birth but not by heart


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## Pleco126 (Jun 17, 2012)

No matter what the government does, someone will be unhappy. No one is perfect.


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## big_bubba_B (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't vote because all politicians are bs farmers . And know matter who you vote in they lie and screw you over . So really I do my job pay taxes and couldn't give a crap


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

luckylux99 said:


> maybe you should go back to china and stay there you obvoisly dont want to be here so go back and enjoy the communist country were you have no right . let your gov control you and then come back and bad mouth Canada you are no Canadian maybe by birth but not by heart


Cool it with the personal attacks man! He isn't saying he hates canada! This whole thread is about disliking our current government structure, and he is just adding to that! Saying you dislike our government is very different from saying you dislike our country!!


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Yes, please cool it on the personal attacks and I can also see the level of profanity is rising. We (the Mod team) don't like closing threads but if everything slides downhill with personal attacks &/or profanity, such threads will be locked. 

BTW, this is exactly the reason why these threads require the most mod attention/intervention. I will leave the offending post in temporarily so other members have a clear example of where the line is and when it has been crossed in terms of personal attacks.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

agreed. surely we're civil enough to hold different opinions without resorting to personal attacks and racism.


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## J'sRacing (Apr 25, 2012)

luckylux99 said:


> maybe you should go back to china and stay there you obvoisly dont want to be here so go back and enjoy the communist country were you have no right . let your gov control you and then come back and bad mouth Canada you are no Canadian maybe by birth but not by heart


Excuse me? Are you being racist? I'd dare you to go say in person to anyone of asian descent. You'd learn real quick to watch what comes out of your mouth.

Go back to China? I was born and raised here, and so were my parents. In fact my grandparents weren't even from China. 
Canada is a country of immigrants, to identify yourself as Canadian means almost as much as saying the grass is green.


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## luckylux99 (Apr 22, 2010)

for one thing i am not races i am married to a Asian women Anthony will attest to that all my friends are Asian so don't you ever call me races you shooting your mouth off how good china is . You go ask all the people that left that country in fear of persecution and came to canada these people seek out canada to make a home for there family . I help people also help family's find housing when they imagrate here . The only thing i am guilty of is believing in my country but being races i am not. You bad mouth are government fine every country has beefs about there government but you also bad mouth your country you are born in I dont get that. And for everybody else on the forum I apoligize if in ANY WAY MY COMMENT WAS OUT OF LINE IT WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE DIRECTED IN A RACES WAY. AS OF FOR YOU THERE IS ALLOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM THAT DOES NOT FEEL YOUR COMMENTS MADE ABOUT CANADA WAS APPROPRIATE


J'sRacing said:


> Excuse me? Are you being racist? I'd Anthony i also apoligise to you if you feel that you need to close this post then you should you are a good freind and i hope you didnt feel that comment was directed anyway to anybody


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

I just opened this thread for about the second time since it started .. It has not evolved well.Maybe some would like to continue it on C/L Rants and Raves; but I think it is past due to be closed here.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Yes, it has. I am going to close it now that both parties have had a chance to see and comment on what has been posted and how this thread has de-evolved so quickly. 

This is why a lot of sites won't allow any political threads to be started. The problem with political, religious, and other highly controversial subjects is that individuals tend to feel very strongly about their position and when someone disagrees, the blood boils and polite, civil discussion goes out the window, to be replaced by real angry posts, profanity and personal attacks. As others have mentioned in a different thread, these are very polarizing subjects that are also very divisive to the community. Individuals who may become friends in real life can become bitter internet enemies from reading and posting opposing comments about politics or religion.

Luckylux, no I did not feel the comment was directed at me in any way. While many may think the same way, posting it on BCA is considered crossing the line. I know you are not a racist, but others who do not know you or have never met you and your wife will judge by the offending post. 

Therefore, I will now close the thread while the team decides whether to leave it open but edited or just leave it closed in full to allow members to see how easily things can go from allowable to being no longer abiding by site rules.

Anthony


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