# ph crashes over and over



## flannel (Apr 21, 2010)

This is a total mystery. My Mom's tank ph keeps going down to 4.5 - 5.0. I think this is the 4th or 5th round since the beginning of December. It's a 20 gal, running an AC30. No driftwood, no peat. There's 2 danios, 1 tetra, 3 cories and 3 kuhlis left. We've tested our tap water over and over and it is just fine. There have only been a couple casualties miraculously. She uses Prime to dechlorinate. She feeds tetramin flakes and something from Hikari for the bottom fish. 

In the beginning the cories started acting weird, laying on their sides and freaking out, that's what alerted us that something was wrong. We took the water in and had it tested at the LFS. PH was 4.5. Figured it was an ornament degrading so we took out everything except gravel, plants and glass. Lots of small water changes brought it back up to normal. For a while. It crashed again. I helped take out all the gravel. Figured that maybe it was coated and that was degrading. Funny thing is, it is natural brown gravel and I don't think it was coated buuut...when I started scooping it out, it was all stuck together, kinda crusty-like and came out in big chunks. It was even stuck to the silicone in places. Mom said it had been like that for a long time (she's not the biggest logical thinker to begin with). She thought it was normal. More water changes and it's back to normal and steady for a while. Then it crashed again so the only other thing she can think of is to put new filter media in. So she did. All of it. I can't seem to get the good bacteria speech to stick for her. But it didn't have a mini cycle and we thought all was well. Well, it's back down to 5 again. Does anyone have any clue what could be causing this? Is there some kind of bacteria that could be giving off acidic waste? That's all I can think of....Help!


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## mitchb (Apr 27, 2011)

How long has the tank been going for? 

You could also put some oyster shells in the ac30 to keep your ph stable but that would be around the 7.0-7.2 level so not sure if that would work for you.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you checked kh/dkh from your tap and tank? If I'm not mistaken this can cause the PH to drop.

couple informative reads:
Adjusting pH in the Freshwater Aquarium - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#khbuffers
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/isla...sting-hardness-your-aquarium-7033/index2.html
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/isla...r-supply-issue-lower-mainland-715/index2.html


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

since i doubt your mother would handle gh and kh boosters, i guess crushed coral in the filter will be the way to go here. As for the gravel, she must not have vaccuumed it, ever. Perhaps a sand like substrate would do her better, since it would be much easier for her to vaccuum.

as for water changes, is she doing atleast 30% changes every two weeks?


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

Gotta be the hardness I would think but then again seeing how you live in Kamloops isn't your water hardness high to begin with? Might be an idea to test the gh/kh levels to make sure. If they are not high enough you will end up with crashes.


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Test the kH.
W/O some carbonate in the water,pH will crash w/even minimal amounts of CO2 or acidifying pollutants present.

Keep in mind that the nitrifying bacteria consume kH,so regular replenishment of the carbonate/bicarbonate content is necessesary.
Normally,regular water changes are all that is required,not chemicals,unless you are using RO water.

Once the pH is that low,nitrifiction almost ceases,AFAIK.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm just wondering if the crusty substrate is due to overfeeding and lack of gravel cleaning? If so, maybe rotting organic matter (food) is lowering the kH and pH? 

I would wash the gravel or replace it, and switch the AC 30 to an AC 50, and perhaps use some charcoal in the filter. I'd also add some Equilibrium to the water changes if your water is soft. However, I don't know what water conditions are like in your area; perhaps that's not necessary.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Diztrbd1 said:


> Have you checked kh/dkh from your tap and tank? If I'm not mistaken this can cause the PH to drop.
> 
> couple informative reads:
> Adjusting pH in the Freshwater Aquarium - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
> ...


Thanks John,
This thread put a smile on my face, looks like almost everyone is accepting the low hardness issue.


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## flannel (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions. The tank has been running for maybe 4 years. 2 years in Penticton, it was brand new, then 2 years ago mom moved to Kamloops to live with us. I helped all the moving stuff and aside from some light related green water right after the move it has been perfect. 
I do believe our water is a bit harder here to begin with, it's never really been an issue, so it wasn't something we checked. I will clarify about the gravel...she was vacuuming pretty regularly but it was getting to be so much of a chore that she took almost all of it out over a year ago. All that was left was just a smattering, basically enough to give the bottom a bit of color. after that, she would just give it a big swish so the filter would grab most of it (which was usually not much stuff) then just rinse the filter later in the day. That seemed to be working really well. It was the best compromise I could come up with without just taking over and looking after the tank for her. It's a bit unorthodox but she's 70, so we do whatever we can to help her be independent. I really wonder if the gravel being stuck together was some kind of bacterial thing going on. It was just so weird. I even gave it a big rinse after to see how dirty it was and basically nothing came out of it but it would still stick together. 

We will get the gh/kh tested and I'll do some reading at those links to see if anything rings a bell for me. Thank you everyone for all your help!


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Morainy said:


> I'm just wondering if the crusty substrate is due to overfeeding and lack of gravel cleaning? If so, maybe rotting organic matter (food) is lowering the kH and pH?
> 
> I would wash the gravel or replace it, and switch the AC 30 to an AC 50, and perhaps use some charcoal in the filter. I'd also add some Equilibrium to the water changes if your water is soft, because raising the hardness might help the pH stay more stable. However, I don't know what water conditions are like in your area; perhaps that's not necessary.


Equilibrium won`t help.It raises gH not kH and it is not very good at that either.

It is about 40% potassium sulfate which contributes to neither kH or gH.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

equilibrium is great for a typical aquarium GH range, but it does need something to boost alkalinity further. For higher hardness range (7+ i'd say) its horrible for.


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## flannel (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't want to go throwing chemicals in there unless that's the only solution. I doubt Mom could handle adding this and that every water change. I would prefer to use some coral or oyster shells, if indeed that is the problem. That way it's a long term solution that I can monitor but not have to take over, if that makes sense.


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

neven said:


> equilibrium is great for a typical aquarium GH range, but it does need something to boost alkalinity further. For higher hardness range (7+ i'd say) its horrible for.


Why add a bunch of useless potassium sulfate?


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Care to elaborate more on this, or offer other alternatives?



kelownaguy said:


> Equilibrium won`t help.It raises gH not kH and it is not very good at that either.
> 
> It is about 40% potassium sulfate which contributes to neither kH or gH.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Equiilibrium is formulated more towards the planted tank crowd where potassium sulphate is useful, as with most seachem products I suspect its what they use to simply to up the product volume rather than sell you a more effective product

As for what I use, ro right and ph stable
Sent via Tapatalk; SGH-T589R


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I've stopped measuring pH itself but have been measuring TDS instead. I keep my pleco tank at a little over 100ppm and my pH stays nicely in the mid 6's. There's a ton of stuff you can use to buffer the water. I had some spare stuff left over from my SW days....using Kent's Coral Builder. But there are alot of other products out there that boost kH/gH.


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## JohnnyAppleSnail (May 30, 2010)

Crushed Coral is the way to go,I have it in all My Tanks.In My 33 gal. Planted Tank I put a Hand Sized Barnacle behind some Driftwood so it wouldn't show and within 2 weeks the PH went from 6.0 to 6.8. Crushed Coral is best mixed with substrate.I usually just sprinkle it on top of Gravel and the Fish eventually mix and disperse it around themselves.Lasts a very long time,and no headaches.


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## flannel (Apr 21, 2010)

Well, had the water tested at the store. She only did the Kh and seemed dubious about it, as no one ever asks for that unless they have a saltwater tank. Needless to say, it only took one drop to turn the test yellow. KH=10. Not good, so I taught her something today! So, I got my hands on some oyster shell from a friend. How much should I use for that size tank, or will it just kind of self-regulate as the water dissolves it? The gal at the LFS looked at me like I was a little kooky when I asked about crushed coral. I also have Kent liquid calcium I use for my snails' shells. Should i put a couple drops in just to give it a chance, or just wait for the oyster shell and water changes to kick in?

I'm still not understanding how this all happened. My tanks have been fine and we're in the same house (same water), and I have driftwood! Her bettas' water is ok too. I had it all checked too, just in case. Can't remember the numbers but they were all acceptable. Would it be because she hasn't been maintaining as well as I thought and the nitrifying bacteria used up all the calcium? If I can wrap my head around the how, I can hopefully keep it from happening again....the fish thank you guys so much!


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## JohnnyAppleSnail (May 30, 2010)

I have no idea how much Oyster Shell you have on Hand,what I would do is start off by putting in small amounts to get the desired PH you want,say try a 1/2 cup the first few days and go from there,but don't panic if the PH doesn't raise right away,the Shell slowly disolves over time usually days to a week+,personally I prefer Crushed Coral over Oyster Shell Myself. I wouldn't use the Kent,you will want to see the results of your OS to best determine how it is working on it's own. I wish I could remember what I put in My 27 gal tall but I think it was about a Cup or more of CC sprinkled throughout the Substrate and the PH is around 7.2


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi, Flannel. I didn't understand at first that your mother is a senior. I was thinking of a planted tank setup or something. It's definitely important with a senior that the tank is easy-care and that no additives have to be added.

If your other tanks are fine in the same house, then maybe it's not a problem with the water being too soft. Maybe there's a problem with the gravel? I wonder if something has fallen into the tank and gummed up the gravel in some way. Maybe it's not really aquarium gravel? Not that I can think of anything that would cause this problem. Maybe now that you've washed the gravel, everything will be fine. Maybe Mom was just overfeeding the fish?

Anyway, she is really lucky to have you to help her keep her pets healthy.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

If it were my tank, I would trash the gravel and buy a new bunch.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

She could be way over feeding. If the filter doesn't keep up them it will continue to crash.
Maybe you should redo the gravel and basically redo the tank. Make sure the filter is rinsed but not overly so you dont lose all the good bacteria.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275044,-122.835549


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

flannel said:


> Would it be because she hasn't been maintaining as well as I thought and the nitrifying bacteria used up all the calcium? If I can wrap my head around the how, I can hopefully keep it from happening again....the fish thank you guys so much!


Calcium has nothing to do with it.

At the risk of repeating myself,it is the lack of carbonate or kH.

Nitrifying bacteria consume kH at a rate directly proportional to the rate at which they oxidize ammonia into nitrate.
More food available to the nitrifiers=quicker carbonate consumption rate.
I don`t know why this is not stressed more in the aquarium literature.The waste treatment people are well aware of it(they have to be).

Buy a kH test kit.Test your tap water.I understand Kamloops uses membrane filtration,so the kH could be very low to begin wth.I could not find the numbers at the city website.

Forget about having water tested at the store.They sound like pretty dim bulbs anyhow.

Feed less and change more water(as long as it contains a reasonable kH).


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Luke78 said:


> Care to elaborate more on this, or offer other alternatives?


I`m not recommending a chemical solution(no pun intended) for the original poster.

When I was using RO water for water changes in my planted tank, I used potassium bicarbonate and potassium carbonate as a kH source.I think sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and sodium carbonate would be suitable as well.I was (probably overly) concerned w/excessive sodium levels in the planted tank,so I have not used the sodium compounds.

Calcium carbonate in the form of oyster shells or coral can work too,but,the very slow rate of dissolving makes it unsuitable for quickly adding kH.

As for gH.
Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) is good for a magnesium component of gH.

Calcium is a little tougher as most calcium compounds are insoluble.
Calcium nitrate is very soluble however-I`ve used it.
To add calcium w/o nitrate,I`ve used food grade gypsum(calcium sulfate).
Calcium chloride is very soluble too-not sure if the chloride would be suitable for a planted tank though-I haven`t used it
Calcium carbonate can work too,but,the same cavaets apply for gH as for kH.


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## mitchb (Apr 27, 2011)

Just get a media bag fill with oyster shells and drop it in. Check the bag every week and you're done. Set it and forget it...


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Apparently Kamloops city water has a hardness of 38 mg/litre(ppm).
That is fairly low.
My understanding is that this number is based strictly on an analysis of the gH components of hardness only,not kH.The result is then expressed as a CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) equivalent.

Since not all of the gH comes from carbonate compounds,the kH will be even lower than 38 mg/litre.

The long and short of it is that Kamloops water is quite soft kH wise and relatively low amounts of KH consumption by the nitrifying bacteria cause a pH crash.Only this tank crashes because it has a higher bio-load and/or less water changes.

A bag of oyster shells would probably help a lot.


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

*numbers*

Putting some numbers to it.
Alkalinity is consumed at a rate of 7.14 grams CaCO3 / gram NH3 oxidized.
This means that for every 10 ppm of nitrate produced by nitrification about 20 ppm of Kh is consumed.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

With water hardness that low you will experience problems like we used to in the lower mainland. Fish have poor osmoregulation if there is poor mineral content in the water. GH can be raised with aquarium salt. Epsom salt is strictly magnesium sulfate and you will benefit more from using aquarium salt. Oyster shell, or coral will only raise pH, if the KH increases by more then 1 dKH I would be surprised. The majority of aquarium fish are reared and raised in much harder water and are more used to better levels. We also used to add the coral to our sumps and I can say without a doubt, that raising your KH with buffers such as Alkaline Buffer will improve the health of your fish overall compared to crushed oyster shell etc.


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Oyster shell can only raise the pH by dissolving and releasing kH into the water.Since it is dissolving,it is also releasing calcium into the water and by definition,increasing gH.

I think more frequent water changes are a superior solution than chemical additions to the OPs problem.

Osmotic properties are a seperate subject and desirible TDS levels would depend on the type of fish being kept.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Here's a good thesis to read for the study of oyster shells as a pH buffer. Just read the conclusion and recommendations towards the end of the thesis.
The Potential of Crushed Oyster Shells as pH Buffer


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## qyrus (Apr 21, 2010)

2nd for alkaline buffer, combine it with acid buffer to dial in ph and kh. Take everything slow however and adjust parameters incrementally, once you're near what you want I'd stop tinkering and focus on keeping it stable. Stability trumps perfect water conditions IMHO. 

Jim


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

kelownaguy said:


> Oyster shell can only raise the pH by dissolving and releasing kH into the water.Since it is dissolving,it is also releasing calcium into the water and by definition,increasing gH.
> 
> I think more frequent water changes are a superior solution than chemical additions to the OPs problem.
> 
> Osmotic properties are a separate subject and desirable TDS levels would depend on the type of fish being kept.


Oyster shell will only dissolve in an acidic environment. Once the pH of the water increases, there will not be any more minerals being released. More frequent water changes with virtually zero mineral content will not help the problem but make it worse. Again, most aquarium fish are not raised in these sort of conditions and only the strong tend to survive once introduced to our mineral poor water. Oyster shells are a quick fix, and if it worked effectively against low mineral content I would be doing it as well with over 500 aquariums. I understand your view but you are not putting enough consideration into the osmoregulation issue. We use Alkalinity Buffer combined with salt in both our stores and our fish mortality is honestly the lowest I have seen in 20 years. The proof is in the pudding as they say.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

This topic has been of large debate over the last two years or so that we have been preaching it. I personally am very happy to see so many BC hobbyists on board properly buffering their water. I hear in store practically on a daily basis from our members how much easier their aquariums are and how their fishes survivability has been positively effected. Part of the problem getting this across is this is a BC problem. As soon as hobbyists question this on other forums they are usually told not to worry about hardness. 2 years ago I would have likely said the same until I realized how detrimental this condition is for the majority of aquarium fish.
Anyways, just wanted to say how glad I am to see this number of positive responses.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

For us hobbyists in BC, the clean water in the province is a blessing in disguise. Good for drinking out of the tap but not good for the fish in the tanks in the long run.

Sent from Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

depends how you look at it, its great for buffering because we dont need to test the water prior to buffering 

as for you grant, you need to change your title under your name to: The Buffer Crusader!


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

neven said:


> depends how you look at it, its great for buffering because we dont need to test the water prior to buffering
> 
> as for you grant, you need to change your title under your name to: The Buffer Crusader!


I like it! It has a nice ring!


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

jobber604 said:


> For us hobbyists in BC, the clean water in the province is a blessing in disguise. Good for drinking out of the tap but not good for the fish in the tanks in the long run.
> 
> Sent from Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


I know Vancouverites are quite self centred,but,you should not confuse Vancouver tap water with BC water.Overgeneralization is not a good thing.
Last time I looked,this was BC Aquaria,not Vancouver Aquaria.

Geographicly speaking,most BC water is fairly hard and not all of it is so good to drink either.You must not have heard about all the boil water advisories around the province last year.

High rainfall coastal communities with surface sourced water supplies have soft water.

Groundwater supplies are fairly hard around the province.

Interior communities with surface water supplies are somewhere in between.

My Kelowna water comes out of the ground with a TDS around 150 ppm and with substantial hardness.One of my wells has levels of iron toxic to fish if used w/o precaution.
Friend a few miles away,has well water so hard it is unusable.

An adjacent neighbourhood is supplied by irrigation district wells.Thier water is twice as hard as mine and contains nitrates etc.
The only reason they converted to wells was the VERY poor quality of thier previous mountain lake surface water supply.In the spring,when the lakes turn over,there is so much brown turbid organic material in the water that you can not see the bottom of a bathtub filled with it.Not an inviting prospect,let me tell you!
Most customers in East Kelowna still receive the crappy turbid stuff.

In Summerland,you get uranium levels higher than the Canadian drinking water standard from your municipal wells.
Isn`t there an arsenic problem on the gulf islands?
The list could go on,but,I think you get the point by now.

Overgeneralization is not good.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Vancourites are not self centered. I am. 
I totally agree with you. Overgeneralizing isn't a good thing at all.

Let's get back on topic with the OP.


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

Rastapus said:


> Oyster shell will only dissolve in an acidic environment. Once the pH of the water increases, there will not be any more minerals being released. More frequent water changes with virtually zero mineral content will not help the problem but make it worse. Again, most aquarium fish are not raised in these sort of conditions and only the strong tend to survive once introduced to our mineral poor water. Oyster shells are a quick fix, and if it worked effectively against low mineral content I would be doing it as well with over 500 aquariums. I understand your view but you are not putting enough consideration into the osmoregulation issue. We use Alkalinity Buffer combined with salt in both our stores and our fish mortality is honestly the lowest I have seen in 20 years. The proof is in the pudding as they say.


A pH crash by definition means an acidic enviroment,a very acidic one, so the shells will dissolve.

You are not putting enough consideration into the original posters question and situation.

Why did the pH crash only in this tank?
What can I do about it,considering my situation?

Bottles of chemicals are not going to work for him.
The other tanks are doing well on the same tap water w/o chemicals.

I understand chemical hardness boosters work well in your situation.
I use them for RO water myself.

I understand the reasons for your hardness crusade.
I agree with you.
The scripture just needs a little detail tuning around the edges,brother.

I would like to see more emphasis on the reasons for the kH decline and subsequent pH crash.Maybe then,aquarists would appreciate the need to be aware of this important parameter.Everyone knows about benefical bacteria.Few seem to know they consume kH.An overlooked fundamental fact of fishkeeping,IMO.I`ve always wondered why the north american approach to fishkeeping is so much less scientific than the european one.European animal rights laws?

As for osmotic pressure.
The osmotic pressure of aquarium water is proportional to the number of molecules of ALL solutes present,not just the gH forming ones.
Osmotic pressure is proportional to the conductivity(sometimes expressed as a conductivity derived TDS measurement).

Scientific fish collecting literature usually mentions field conductivity readings because they are indicative of the inorganic contribution to local osmotic pressure.

That said,I do not doubt the need for an adequete and preferably balanced gH.

Generally speaking,an adequete gH,kH almost ensures an adequete TDS/osmotic pressure so it does work out.

In most natural waters,an adequete gH and kH usually go hand in hand because calcium/magnesium carbonates/bicarbonates are major solutes.
Not so for chemically reminerilized soft water.

I going to climb off the pulpit now.
Time for a sacramental libation.
Keep spreading the good word.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Well said and I agree as well. The problems we have are LML based but also many surrounding areas. Yes, lets get back on point. I had not realized the original post was from Kamloops. We have this topic arise a lot in our areas so an easy mistake. After all, I am the buffer crusader!


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Glad I'm not the OP of this thread  lol I'd want to give the tank away after all this ! kelownaguy , with all due respect, I don't think calling a large portion of the active members of this forum "self centered" was really accurate or necessary! Maybe they are not as well educated on the subject as you apparently are. But all I know is people are simply replying with their experience and how they have learned to deal with it and trying to be helpful. Granted different areas are going to have different water chemistry. But , and this is just my opinion, you trying to argue that most of the replies are incorrect info of one form or another is a little uncalled for. I think it would have been best to start a new thread if you want to debate everything or educate all of us on this. It it getting way out of hand on this thread IMO! Personally I think I provided a few good links to help the op get a better understanding of things. I also think this has to do with over feeding & improper vacuuming/water changes (from the sounds of the gravel) . Never heard what the KH from the tap is, but IMO & experience, if it's low & being added to a body of water that is near 0 already then it's going to continue to crash no matter what else is already consuming it. I could be wrong but I think since the OP has removed everything except for the plants, maybe we should focus on getting the KH to a proper level (before all their fish die)and see what happens & go from there?? I agree more water changes, filter cleanings ect.... may be good, but it's not going to help if the tap water is contributing to the problem. I think the OP should test the kh from the tap , as well as their personal tanks, and see what the differences are with them also. I am by far an expert & seen this thread to be a leaning thing, but looks like more of an eyesore when I look at it now. I don't think insults, sarcasm & preaching is going to help the op. How hard is it, to just simply post what one feels is helpful info without making a debate out of it or trying to make people look stupid?? I'd like to think we are all friends here & are just trying to be helpful with our experience in whatever the situation may be. 
Just my 2 cents


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi, Flannel. Your mother is very lucky that you're willing to help her with her tank. Most of us have problems develop with one tank or another over time. I hope that without too much work on your part, this 20 gallon tank will end up being a pleasure to both of you again.

I was visiting a tank at the school the other day, and found that the filter sponge was incredibly black and smelly. A very strange smell was permeating the classroom. It turns out that before the winter break, someone (unknown) spilled a very large container of fish food into the tank. The tank was siphoned and the water was changed, but a lot of the food got sucked up into the sponge where it was forgotten and... reeked. This had nothing to do with our water conditions or any ongoing problems with care, just a mistake that had happened one day and then, after being addressed, was forgotten.

I mention that in case something like that happened with your mom's tank at some point, that ended up gunking up the gravel in that mysterious way. There may be nothing wrong with the setup or water at all (as your other tanks are fine); just something that happened once and will never happen again.

Good luck!


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

I think it was both necessary and accurate considering the quality of some replies.

I know the truth hurts sometimes.

Paragraphs are your friend.

I didn`t have time to read your links,but,if they are anything like the plethora of poorly written aquarium chemistry pages around,they will be of limited usefullness.
Maybe you should reread the thread,if you are not too sensitive.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Beyond the bickering here's a recap

Gunky substrate likely crashing the ph. Media being replaced, substrate replaced will fix part of it. Crashing ph is countered by a bag of crushed coral in the filter

The true cause of the crash is unknown yet, but assumed by most to be kh related. This brought on the crushed coral debate that pops up often here. The thing is he's asking how to stop his ph from crashing, not properly buffer the tank to the proper levels. His mother takes care of the tank so minimal maintenance is nnecessary, meaning buffering the tank through additives likely won't happen.

Although I long ago left the crushed coral crowd and moved over to gh boosters (and alkalinity boosters), in this instance its the best choice.

The last point to recap. Calling us all self centered is uncalled for. Water hardness is a major issue for the hobby here, more specifically gh. Countless sources told me kh is all that mattered, but that is because most water sources in the hobby had enough hardness in their tap water to not worry about it. Many still don't know that we have near ro water. The same is true in many mountainous coastal regions in north america, not just vancouver. I personally know that well water shifts dramatically parameter wise region to region, but many here do not, they only know what they've been told and works for them. They have as much right as anyone to put their input in, that's what a forum is about

Sent via Tapatalk; SGH-T589R


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## kelownaguy (Jan 1, 2011)

neven said:


> Beyond the bickering here's a recap
> 
> Gunky substrate likely crashing the ph. Media being replaced, substrate replaced will fix part of it. Crashing ph is countered by a bag of crushed coral in the filter
> 
> ...


The true cause of the crash is NOT unknown.
Water from the problem tank was tested and found to have 0 buffering capacity.

Anybody who looks at thier own water and thinks it represents BC water in general IS self centred.

Call lower mainland water "lower mainland water" not BC water.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

self-centered
Adj.	1.	self-centered - limited to or caring only about yourself and your own needs

Assuming all water of BC being the same is actually ignorance on the subject, not being self centered. Someone replying to a help thread is definately not self-centered.

As for your distaste of those in the lower mainland, it belongs elsewhere, not here. It may be BCA, but there is a large proportion of people here from the lower mainland. Those outside of it are equally as valued and members do what they can to make them feel welcome, including trying to get shipments out to them to help further the hobby where they are.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Well put Neven! Looks to me like a better definition of "self-centered" in this situation is the person who seems to think their opinions/comments/knowledge are the only ones that are correct or even matter here and even on the whole WWW for that matter. And who also lacks the ability to be open minded. Geez dude take a chill pill.


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