# Really skinny minnow



## BullDog (Apr 21, 2010)

Did my weekly water change today, and noticed a really skinny looking minnow.
A couple of pics: Sorry, he was right at the water line, so they didn't come out too well, but you can see how bad he looks.


















I've QTed him at the moment. I put in a few flakes, to see if he'd eat them. He took a couple small pieces, but wasn't that interested.

Some back story:
I found 2 dead minnows last month. Didn't think too much of it, at the time. since they were a couple weeks apart. Also, these white cloud minnows are sold as feeders, so they're probably not the healthiest/best breeding stock. 
But, at one point last month I did notice one of them looking a little thin, though nothing like this guy. A few days later, I found a dead minnow. Scooped the second dead one out of there last night.

Tank info:
15 gallon tank, Stingray 15 filter.
Residents are the 6 or 7 white cloud minnows, and one male betta.
Lightly planted, lots of java moss, water wisteria, water lettuce, and a few itty bitty corkscrew val left.
Temp: 80-81F
Chems (checked just before I did a 30% water change):
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: ~10 mg/L (before the WC)
PH: ~7.5
I don't add anything to the tank, except water conditioner on water changes.

What should I do? 
How do I know if it's parasites or disease?
Do I treat just this minnow, or the whole tank? And with what?

The other minnows and betta seem to otherwise be acting normal.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Bulldog, I'm not a fish doctor, nor an expert. But I think that your minnows may have a disease. It's hard for me to tell from the photo, but I think that your fish has a bent spine. It may, however, just be the way that the fish is swimming.

If your fish are developing bent spines and they are getting thinner, I would suspect TB, sadly. I'll paste some info about that at the end of my post. (But, again, I'm not an expert)

I remember that you had some bettas who developed mysterious illnesses. Do you think that these fish have been exposed?

On the other hand, maybe they are just stressed? I think that your water may be a little warm, as white cloud minnows are not tropical fish. You might be able to let them live just at room temperature, up to about 72 degrees or so.

I hope that your fish recover swiftly. They are very pretty.

Here's the info about TB:
Fish Tuberculosis (Mycobacterium)
S: Fish may lose color and appetite and become hollow-bellied. Fish become lifeless and often crippled-with a bent spine. Fish develop ulcers under the skin and may rupture causing open sores and "pop-eye."
A: This disease is highly infectious and deleterious. Bacteria can remain living in the gravel to infect other fish when they are weakened. Some success has been achieved by treating infected fish with antibiotics (Oxytetracycline and Kanamycin), although often it is best to kill the fish and put it out of its misery. When removing piscine tuberculosis victims, do so with care, as this disease can be transmitted to humans. 
Diseases that affect Tropical Freshwater Fish


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## BigFatLyre (Apr 22, 2010)

I'd say TB as well. The only thing that throws this diagnosis is your temperature being so high. But it may not always have been so?? You'd see this in koi and goldfish subjected to cold temps. Any history on these fish??


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## BullDog (Apr 21, 2010)

Uh oh... I didn't want to hear TB  
Little bit of the minnow history - I had 5 originally, who lived with my first betta, who succumbed to a mysterious illness, still don't know what it was. Of those first 5, I had 3 left when I added my current betta, and eventually added 7 new minnows. So yes, there is a 100% chance that 3 of the minnows were directly exposed to whatever got my betta. I'm not sure if it's the 3 original, or some of the new ones that have been dying. The original 3 used to be a lot bigger than the new ones, but the newbies have grown. 
I know they're a coldwater fish, but I keep the temp warm for the betta. I originally got them because they're inexpensive (like I said, feeders), but they're neat looking. They've always been in the warm water.

I wasn't sure if his spine was bent either. It's kind of hard to tell, but from what I could tell, it didn't look like his spine was bent, it looked like he was just swimming funny. The first pic I think is at an odd angle, that's why it looks bent. 

So, what should I do to save as many fish as I can (particularly the betta!)? Treat the whole tank with an antibiotic? Or start with something less drastic? A bit of salt?


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## BigFatLyre (Apr 22, 2010)

You "betta" get the "betta" outa der (insert New Joisey accent). Betta's are tough, and have an accessory air assist organ, so I hope he hasn't been exposed too much. Get going. The others? your decision.


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## BullDog (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for the tip BigFat. I was considering that. Will do it tonight I think. I've got a 2.5g cleaned and ready.
Should I do 100% fresh water?


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## BullDog (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you for your post BigFatLyre. It gave me the kick in the pants I needed. 
I've transfered Enigma to the 2.5g, with 100% fresh water. Catching him wasn't a pleasant experience, but I did get him, and either he's putting on a brave face or it was no big thing for him, since he only showed his fear stripes momentarily. 

Scary thing is that today he was swimming like his tail was a bit too heavy (which is what my first betta showed at first). So I'm going to watch him for just a day or two in the fresh water, maybe fast for a day or two, then some antibacterial pellets, and if I don't see any improvement, start in on the antibiotics. I've got some tetracycline on hand, so I'll start with that. Haven't decided what to do about the rest of the tank yet... Will watch it and just see what happens for now.
I did notice that this sick minnow is one of the newer ones, and there is at least 2 of the original 3 big boys still left. 

For now, the 2.5g Enigma got dropped in is bare (it does have a filter + heater), which I don't think he's liking, but I'll boil up a couple of rocks tomorrow and maybe do a cave of sorts for him to feel a bit secure.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Maybe if you drop the water temp for the minnows, they will recover.

I hope that Enigma pulls through alright. (Enigma is such a great name, by the way.)


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## BullDog (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok, update. Even though it looked like the minnow got a bit less skinny, I found it dead this evening. 

Enigma (betta) is set up in the 2.5g, though he's pretty lethargic. Mostly just resting on the plastic leaves I put near the surface. Started him on antibacterial pellets tonight. Not sure if I should go ahead and do a dose of tetracycline, or try him just on the AB pellets for now.

Turned down the temp in the main tank (thanks for the suggestion morainy), and will see where that leads.


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