# Lost two discus



## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I siphon the bottom before I pump out 50% of the water. I got one of the poor fish with the siphon hose and it was scared and took off. A fish died yesterday so I thought it had suffered trauma. There was another one dead this morning so the trauma theory went out the window.

I change 50% of the water every two days but occasionally once a day. It's Vancouver water it has a PH of 6.8 and it's soft. I use Prime to eliminate the chlorine. Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite are all zero. I've got two Aqueon 55/75 filters running full time as well as two bio filters.

Along with the discus I also bought some angels that I have in the 55 gallon tank. I've been expanding the area with tanks and slowly but surely getting where I'm going. The discus were going into a 200 gallon tank in a couple of weeks.

There's one thing that I did notice. I have fish in 9 separate tanks at the moment. They loved the HIKARI blood worms but ALL the fish in stopped being in a panic to eat it. There's two cans involved. I opened another can last night and it's the same thing. This is not isolated to one or two tanks so it can't be coincidental . It does smell a bit different so I suppose it could be a new formula. A spin off product comes to mind as well. 

In any event two fish are dead and there's a reason. I hope it stops there. The cost is not a factor it's just that I feel that I have a responsible to be a good caretaker.

I just did a conversion from Celsius to Fahrenheit and I discovered that my figures were off. I've been keeping the fish at 34*C and I thought that was 86*F so that may be the explanation. I'll raise the temperature right away.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Sorry to hear. I know what a dedicated, responsible fishkeeper you are. Hopefully the true cause is discovered soon.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I was shocked to see the temperature was when I came down . I googled it again and 30C equals 86F.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=30+c...sugexp=chrome,mod=17&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I did the same with the upstairs computer with 34C and got 82.6. I googled 34C downstairs and got 93.2F

I ran downstairs for nothing!

Am I loosing my mind????


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Sorry to hear. I know what a dedicated, responsible fishkeeper you are. Hopefully the true cause is discovered soon.


Thank you!

I don't see the fish as chattel goods. I'm their caregiver so I have responsibility to do my best.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Take a deep breath and relax.


The temperature in the tank is 30*C or 86*F so that should be OK.

It was set at 34*C at one point but that was before I added the fish a month ago.

Senior moment here!!!


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

The day after!

I raised the temp to 92*F and the fish seem more with it. Mind you three was darting around in the tank this morning. They can sure move! Discus behavior is new to me. I understand angels but discus are way different. I noticed one was dark I take that as an ominous sign due to something I read a long time ago. I seem to recall that discus went dark and then they died.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

(C x 8) / 5 + 32 = temp. in Fahrenheit. 

(34C x 8) / 5 + 32 = 86.4 F

OK. Just double checked your math for you

Some of these young wippersnappers have probably never been taught these conversions and might only know metric.:bigsmile:


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

You probably have done this already, but if you haven't get in touch with Canadian Aqua Farm about your discus.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> (C x 8) / 5 + 32 = temp. in Fahrenheit.
> 
> (34C x 8) / 5 + 32 = 86.4 F
> 
> ...


36.4 F is close to ice.

[hehe - typo]


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Reckon said:


> You probably have done this already, but if you haven't get in touch with Canadian Aqua Farm about your discus.


 I haven't mentioned it to Rick. 
The trouble is that there are no telltale signs that I can see. I could come up with theories.

1. Angelfish should not be kept with discus it's an issue of bacteria.
2. It could be a virus.
3.Genetics.
4. Food issue.
5.Internal parasite.

The thing is that I'm not familiar with discus behavior.

I can't give you the survival ratio in nature to maintain the status quo of the species. I do know that we surpass it in controlled environments. Some fish are inbred too much and that makes them poor subjects for survival.

Some of the fish are swimming around acting stately and their dorsal fin is starting to show discus colors.

I'll bail if the loss continues and give them away to a keeper of discus.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Sorry, typed 36.4 when I meant 86.4 F.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I took Ricks advice and replaced 90% of the water today. I was going to do a 50% followed by a 50% later but I forgot the pump 'cause I was changing water in other tanks. One of my main problems is that I don't know how a healthy discus behaves. Looking after 10 tanks with 3 more on the way is becoming a time consuming job.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

The temperature in the tank is 91.5*F and the fish seem much livelier. The raised temperature seems to have raised their metabolism cause they are eating more. I guess being livelier means that they require more food to convert into energy.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Another discus died that represents a total loss of 25%, now. There are four that are on the dark side an ominous sign IMO. I'm thinking about bailing 'cause beginning to feel rather negative towards discus keeping. I've done/do massive water changes and upped the temp but the slide continues. They are young fish so they should be strong and healthy.


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

ok im not a expert but ive kept discus for over a year now i have had them breed also but never got wigglers past 7 days. So i have some questions how many in a tank? Size of tank? Fish size? I can only speek from my experiences but if the fish are under 2 inch i dont think 50% every two days is enough. I raised some 1.5 ers with daily changes and still lost a few. If you read what the grow out contestants went through youll see what it takes to raise them. My preferance is spend the cash and buy adults


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

It was an experiment that's starting to fail. There's 9 discus and 5 angels in the tank. The 200 gallon tank for the discus is not ready yet. There are two 90 gallon filters and to bio filters filtering a 55 gallon tank. The tank is 55 gallons! 

I don't like to quit trying to raise them but the time may be near. I have a hunch that the issue is food related but what do I know. I'm heading down to change at least 50% of the water.


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

also consistency is really important swinging temps peeved them off. I also like 86 degrees 90 seems high but whatever it is keep it the same all the time. You should try black or blood worms see if that helps


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Sticking discus and angelfish togeather is a no no. It's been an age long debate. In the 15 years I've kept discus mosti know who tried ended up with sick discus. Angels have parasites that they keep under control in their stomach and discus can't deal with it. 
Why mix a 1.00 angelfish with discus you spent alot more money on . Discus should be grown out with discus only. 
Tiny discus need bb and clean water .


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

May I know where did you get your discus?


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Fish rookie said:


> May I know where did you get your discus?


Clear up some space in your inbox and I'll send you a pm.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

April said:


> Sticking discus and angelfish togeather is a no no. It's been an age long debate. In the 15 years I've kept discus mosti know who tried ended up with sick discus. Angels have parasites that they keep under control in their stomach and discus can't deal with it.
> Why mix a 1.00 angelfish with discus you spent alot more money on . Discus should be grown out with discus only.
> Tiny discus need bb and clean water .


You're right and it was never meant that the two species were mixed. I dealt with a medical emergency that's ongoing. I have the tanks and space but they have to be operational. I'd estimate another week before I can separate the species.

My angelfish feel bad!! Some of them cost more than the discus.


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## bcorchidguy (Jan 14, 2011)

Vancouver tap water is excellent as you noted but there are issues and April can verify this, our tap water is to soft, it has no hardness what so ever, no buffering capacity so the pH may be 6.8 one day and 5.4 the next or 7.2 Typically you should use something like SeaChem Equilibrium and aim for a hardness of 1-2, it'll help stablize your pH and you can buffer that as well. I say SeaChem Equilibrium because that's the one I know best but there are dozens of good recipies out there for making it at home and making it for a fraction of the cost. If you test your pH every water change you may want to verify your test kit against a friends, I've had first hand experience with bad test kits. April got me going on Discus years ago when she lived up above a pet grooming salon in South Vancouver. Her stock was excellent and she was a sponge for information. Over the last dozen years I've seen her giving back all this information she's gained and trying her best to share her knowledge with anyone willing to listen... PM April, she's one of the top discus folks imho.

Douglas


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

bcorchidguy said:


> Vancouver tap water is excellent as you noted but there are issues and April can verify this, our tap water is to soft, it has no hardness what so ever, no buffering capacity so the pH may be 6.8 one day and 5.4 the next or 7.2 Typically you should use something like SeaChem Equilibrium and aim for a hardness of 1-2, it'll help stablize your pH and you can buffer that as well. I say SeaChem Equilibrium because that's the one I know best but there are dozens of good recipies out there for making it at home and making it for a fraction of the cost. If you test your pH every water change you may want to verify your test kit against a friends, I've had first hand experience with bad test kits. April got me going on Discus years ago when she lived up above a pet grooming salon in South Vancouver. Her stock was excellent and she was a sponge for information. Over the last dozen years I've seen her giving back all this information she's gained and trying her best to share her knowledge with anyone willing to listen... PM April, she's one of the top discus folks imho.
> 
> Douglas


I had several tanks going at one time in my life. I'd test the Vancouver water and it would be slightly acid and tests always indicated 6.8 +/- so 6.7 or 6.9. I seem to recall that rainwater can bounce around like that.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I've reached the conclusion that discus and other species can be finicky stubborn fish.

Fish Rookie bought discus from Rick. He also bought black worms that the fish love. I bought black worms from Rick and my fish wont eat it. I think the fish develop a taste for certain food and after eating it for awhile they wont eat anything else. I may take time to wean them onto other foods but I wouldn't surprised if my discus died from starvation. 

I'm happy to report that my remaining discus seem to be a bit more with it.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

About the black worm my other fish also love them very much. I have fed them to German blue ram, golden balloon ram, neon tetra, rummynose tetra, cardinal tetra, pencil fish, corydora, pleco, grosso, white cloud minnow, furcarta rainbow, gertude rainbow, ottos, galaxy rosbora...etc. Some of these fish were wild caught and some farm raised regardless they all love Rick's black worm.
I have also tried to feed my discus brine shrimps (Hikari) that they have never tried before and they ate them with no problem either. I will stick with black worm but just wanted to see if they would only eat what they were fed growing up. They were quicker in finishing up the black worm than the brine shrimps but they would eat the shrimps.
Anyway, Lamplighter, I am so glad your discus are doing better. 
I will try my best to keep mine healthy. It is a lot of work especially with all the water changes (I am only using buckets--one for clean water and one for dirty water-- and a hose). I cannot imagine how I could manage with the amount of fish that you have. Good luck.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I've got 4-10 gallon tanks, 4-20 gallon tanks, 2-30 gallon tanks, 1-36 gallon tank, 1-40 gallon tank, 6-55 gallon tanks and then there's the 200 gallon tank that's not complete, yet. I hope I got it all right!

Some are in place ready for fish. I will be shifting more into discus but I'm not quite ready.

I vacuum the dirt from the bottoms of the tanks. The rest is pumping the water out of the tanks. I ready the water in 32 gallon containers and pump it into the tanks.

I should have removed the carpets before building the shelving. I'm terrible when it comes to spilling water. Sometimes it stinks, here. But I'm the boss and there's no one here to yell at me. 

Blood worms is like a narcotic to my fish, except the discus. There's another pair off angels spawning. That's not the veil marbles that I told you about earlier. 

I don't get the black worm versus blood worm thing. Yours eat them and mine DO NOT. Strange!!! I bought blood worms from Hong Kong and they wouldn't eat them.

If fish eat good food they'll be strong and healthy. As long as your fish eat they'll be fine.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> I've got 4-10 gallon tanks, 4-20 gallon tanks, 2-30 gallon tanks, 1-36 gallon tank, 1-40 gallon tank, 6-55 gallon tanks and then there's the 200 gallon tank that's not complete, yet. I hope I got it all right!
> 
> Some are in place ready for fish. I will be shifting more into discus but I'm not quite ready.
> 
> ...


Are you planning on breeding them?

That is a lot of tanks you have going there..must have cost you lots of time and money to set them up.

I know what you mean it is weird how some fish just dont like a certain food. Last time my discus wont eat nothing, not even the bloodworm and tetra color that they were fed in their grow up tank... just like people I guess....


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Fish rookie said:


> Are you planning on breeding them?
> 
> That is a lot of tanks you have going there..must have cost you lots of time and money to set them up.
> 
> I know what you mean it is weird how some fish just dont like a certain food. Last time my discus wont eat nothing, not even the bloodworm and tetra color that they were fed in their grow up tank... just like people I guess....


I'll breed discus some time in the future. It'll be for fun!

I could leave my money to my kids. I'm sure that they would know how to spend it. I'm fortunate that I'm not poor. I have to do something with my time. The bottom line is that enjoy what I'm doing.

There was/is something wrong with the discus that we bought. Their behaviour was/is not normal based on what I have read here.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Lamplighter said:


> I'll breed discus some time in the future. It'll be for fun!
> 
> I could leave my money to my kids. I'm sure that they would know how to spend it. I'm fortunate that I'm not poor. I have to do something with my time. The bottom line is that enjoy what I'm doing.
> 
> There was/is something wrong with the discus that we bought. Their behaviour was/is not normal based on what I have read here.


I think I probably did something wrong and messed them up. I am so glad Rick comes along and help me to go the right path. Hopefully these new guys will be happy and healthy for a long time...I will try.
Fish keeping is really enjoyable and challenging. I am new to the hobby but have been enjoying it very much so far.


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## fishdragon (Nov 8, 2010)

My discus keeping has a signaficent diff way with Rick or some others i guess, due to time limit, i didn't do water change in that high frequency, only one or twice a week, each time wc over 50% is very dangerous, i doubt discus can not accept that impact on daily water conditions shift. even my water is green my discus still eating well. one tank i do about 90% to try get ride of the gree alga, then 2 days later the discus become stop eating after the big water change and get not that healthy. i start keeping fish when i was 7 years old, what i get to know is *keeping the fish is just keeping the water*, i think i made two mistakes, one is i should tell my water change style when people buy my discus and if people have no experience on keeping discus, i should show strong warning to them ahead. people got lost when they start keeping new type of fish, you can keeping dog well that not meams you can let your new income cat happy easily. i got nearly $500 bucks lost during my instock $1500 worth value wc altums recently, even you think common angels are something like wc altums and you doing keeping , breeding angels very professionally. i also got lots discus lost when i start keeping discus about 2 years ago at here..... anyhow i am now shutting down my fishroom, i still have quite a lot healthy larger size discus in stock, i would not mind give some good enough deal to whom got lost from my early deal to let them happy finally.

Sent from my LT15a using Tapatalk 2


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Eric,
I really appreciswte your customer service. No need to offer deal to make me happy as actually I am happy. I know it is a learning curve. I selected the fish, I took care of them, so I take full responsibility. Discus are very difficult fish to keep especially when they are so small. You have treated me very fairly and I did not mean to complain or blame you in anyway. Please dont get me wrong.
Anyway, thank you very much for my first discus experience. Your place is the first discus breeding farm me and my daughter have visited and I enjoy it. 
Wish you all the best with the next chapters in your fish journey.


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## fishdragon (Nov 8, 2010)

Fish rookie said:


> Eric,
> I really appreciswte your customer service. No need to offer deal to make me happy as actually I am happy. I know it is a learning curve. I selected the fish, I took care of them, so I take full responsibility. Discus are very difficult fish to keep especially when they are so small. You have treated me very fairly and I did not mean to complain or blame you in anyway. Please dont get me wrong.
> Anyway, thank you very much for my first discus experience. Your place is the first discus breeding farm me and my daughter have visited and I enjoy it.
> Wish you all the best with the next chapters in your fish journey.


Rick and April are great, it's every discus keeper's lucky to have them. Good luck with your new journey.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Fish rookie said:


> Eric,
> I really appreciswte your customer service. No need to offer deal to make me happy as actually I am happy. I know it is a learning curve. I selected the fish, I took care of them, so I take full responsibility. Discus are very difficult fish to keep especially when they are so small. You have treated me very fairly and I did not mean to complain or blame you in anyway. Please dont get me wrong.
> Anyway, thank you very much for my first discus experience. Your place is the first discus breeding farm me and my daughter have visited and I enjoy it.
> Wish you all the best with the next chapters in your fish journey.


I suppose the cat is out of the bag.

My understanding is that three hobbyists experienced problems with the red Turks. There has to be a reason. I think beefing up water changes and the temperature stopped or perhaps slowed down( the growth is still not there) the death rate of my discus. Food could also be an issue. In any event fish do not die without a cause.

The fish were raised as fry by Eric and got past the critical stage of development. The fish did not reach the size they were when I bought them without the caretaker doing something right.

I don't blame Eric because I don't believe there was intent.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

fishdragon said:


> My discus keeping has a signaficent diff way with Rick or some others i guess, due to time limit, i didn't do water change in that high frequency, only one or twice a week, each time wc over 50% is very dangerous, i doubt discus can not accept that impact on daily water conditions shift. even my water is green my discus still eating well. one tank i do about 90% to try get ride of the gree alga, then 2 days later the discus become stop eating after the big water change and get not that healthy. i start keeping fish when i was 7 years old, what i get to know is *keeping the fish is just keeping the water*, i think i made two mistakes, one is i should tell my water change style when people buy my discus and if people have no experience on keeping discus, i should show strong warning to them ahead. people got lost when they start keeping new type of fish, you can keeping dog well that not meams you can let your new income cat happy easily. i got nearly $500 bucks lost during my instock $1500 worth value wc altums recently, even you think common angels are something like wc altums and you doing keeping , breeding angels very professionally. i also got lots discus lost when i start keeping discus about 2 years ago at here..... anyhow i am now shutting down my fishroom, i still have quite a lot healthy larger size discus in stock, i would not mind give some good enough deal to whom got lost from my early deal to let them happy finally.
> 
> Sent from my LT15a using Tapatalk 2


I was attaching no personal blame to the loss of the discus that I bought from you.

If I understand your post correctly then I'm to blame for the condition of my fish because I placed them in clean water.

So experienced discus breeders are wrong when they advocate massive water changes.

I quote from your post #32

_"Rick and April are great, it's every discus keeper's lucky to have them"_

Rick and April suggested huge water changes and I followed their directions. Are you suggesting that i should stop doing that and change my water once a week?


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## fishdragon (Nov 8, 2010)

in my experience, high frequency wc will do harm to fish, do regulaly once or twice a week and each change no exceed 50% , discus get more well in used water. one exception is your water is really dirty enough to harm the fish, then you may need special heavy wc change, but need new water no exceed 2/3. if you always meet the dirty situation, your tank is too small or the filter system need enforce. just my experience.

Sent from my LT15a using Tapatalk 2


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## fishdragon (Nov 8, 2010)

Btw, your angel breeding project is so impresive to me as i also trying breeding diff type angels rare found in the market like blue angel, panda, red devil and some veil types. as i am shutting down my fishroom, i have some breeding project pairs available, i am glad to rehome them to person like you at a discount price. you can check my profile, got the detail in my own website about them.

Sent from my LT15a using Tapatalk 2


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Actually I don't want to get involved in some kind of flame war here. As I said, I had a great experience with fishdragon and I have no complain. I am sure some of his customers have great results and some don't. That is just the way things are. I am learning how to keep discus and to me it is important to be open-minded. I did make some mistakes which caused my discus to die. When discus are so young the margin of error is very small. I try to remember my mistake(s) and not repeat them. 
But before I bow out from this thread, I want to say for the record I got some fish from fishdragon in two seperate times (3 discus each time). I checked the water that the fish came with both times--they all tested zero on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate--after a trip that took about an hour. 
Anyway, good luck Eric.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Fish rookie said:


> Actually I don't want to get involved in some kind of flame war here. As I said, I had a great experience with fishdragon and I have no complain. I am sure some of his customers have great results and some don't. That is just the way things are. I am learning how to keep discus and to me it is important to be open-minded. I did make some mistakes which caused my discus to die. When discus are so young the margin of error is very small. I try to remember my mistake(s) and not repeat them.
> But before I bow out from this thread, I want to say for the record I got some fish from fishdragon in two seperate times (3 discus each time). I checked the water that the fish came with both times--they all tested zero on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate--after a trip that took about an hour.
> Anyway, good luck Eric.


* THREE * people had problems with discus purchased from Eric. That's a statement of *FACT*. I like Eric he's a nice guy but there's something wrong with the discus he sold. If I thought there was intent in other words if he knew there were issues with his fish I'd request a refund.

I started the thread and I never mentioned where I bought the fish. There is no conclusive evidence as to why the discus died. I'm not going to ruin someones business based on what I think.
Eric himself started talking about the fish acknowledging that they came from him.

All I'm interested in is saving my discus. An additional specimen is sickening. I don't buy into not changing my water daily, leaving it for a week. Perhaps when I get my super filter going I'll do that but not now.

Let the buyer beware. At some point in the future some one else will have problems with their discus. Perhaps they'll think that changing the water daily is harmful to the fish and let the fish live in their own body waste that has accumulated for a week.

I saw the filters there and they weren't special. 50 or more fish in a tank excreting for a week makes for a terrible water condition. Remember were all trying to copy an environment that fish have in nature.

In any event this thread like many other threads went off subject.


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## fishdragon (Nov 8, 2010)

most people raise fish for lesure, not change water. if your system running correctly, tank size, fish amount, feed frequency, temporater, filter capability, one or twice per week 50% wc is very common, sometime it's still too frequrncy. i try this style raising angels and discus, so when they rehomed, people no need busy keeping wc everyday. i ensure all discus are doing well when i sell them, selling sick discus is not my business style. you can find out the pic he tooked when fish rookie first got my discus , they are same batch and same tank with yours. i feel uncomfortable when i know my discus not doing well after rehomed, something is wrong, that's not i am willing to see. i can give you a new batch discus, and just ensure using my style to keep them, i don't think you will get the result like last batch. a mis operationed tank water may got fish died in one night. another issue we need to know is germs exist everywhere, fish face dangous every second. when fish got panic, their immunization system will decrease level, more easy to get sick. that's one of the reason why i don't suggest high frequency wc.

Sent from my LT15a using Tapatalk 2


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

fishdragon said:


> most people raise fish for lesure, not change water. if your system running correctly, tank size, fish amount, feed frequency, temporater, filter capability, one or twice per week 50% wc is very common, sometime it's still too frequrncy. i try this style raising angels and discus, so when they rehomed, people no need busy keeping wc everyday. i ensure all discus are doing well when i sell them, selling sick discus is not my business style. you can find out the pic he tooked when fish rookie first got my discus , they are same batch and same tank with yours. i feel uncomfortable when i know my discus not doing well after rehomed, something is wrong, that's not i am willing to see. i can give you a new batch discus, and just ensure using my style to keep them, i don't think you will get the result like last batch. a mis operationed tank water may got fish died in one night. another issue we need to know is germs exist everywhere, fish face dangous every second. when fish got panic, their immunization system will decrease level, more easy to get sick. that's one of the reason why i don't suggest high frequency wc.
> 
> Sent from my LT15a using Tapatalk 2


We can banter back and forth but it'll get us nowhere. *I acknowledge that your fish seemed livelier at your place. I further acknowledge that there's more than one way to raise discus*
I'm not angry at you I'm far from it.

Rocky Mountain change their water weekly.

Water Changes On The Discus Fish Aquarium Explained;Rocky Mountain Discus Fish Care

You worked hard taking care of your discus and breeding them. I would not feel right taking anything from you.


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

Two more discus passed away.

I'm thinking that it may be time to get out of the hobby.

I returned after a long hiatus and focused on guppies. I did poorly!

My real passion are angelfish so I bought that species again. I kept a dozen alive for a month and they spawned. I bought 6 white and six platinum they thrived. A my confidence grew I added more angels and then the discus. The discus are approaching a 50% loss. 1 more will make it 1/2.

I lost one of my favourite angels last night. No symptoms I found it dead.

I'm seriously considering ending my hobby. It'll be the end of the line for fish-keeping.


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