# What is Cheap substrate



## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

hi guys im currently trying to find a good substrate for a 210 gallon im planning on having jack dempseys and electric blues mainly plus other fish (not yet decided) so im not looking for a very dark substrate open to any ideas that are cheap and wouldn't mess around with my PH all to much thanks connor


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

Pool filter sand is probably one of the cheapest. Play sand too, but I've heard its much dirtier than pool filter.


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## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

is a sand bottom hard to keep clean?


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## Nicole (Nov 21, 2011)

You can get white or beige pool filter sand, about $17 for 50lb bag. Or visit a landscaping supply store and choose from whatever pebble/rocks you want.


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## Nicole (Nov 21, 2011)

No, it's just the same as regular siphoning with gravel. You may lose some sand during the vacuuming process but again, it's cheap to replace. I find it easier than gravel actually because all the poop stays on top and I just suck that out.



EBJD Guy said:


> is a sand bottom hard to keep clean?


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## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

ok i also forgot to mention the tank has an under gravel filter i havnt bought it yet but just looking at what substrate i would use


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## shift (Dec 21, 2012)

Black beauty blasting media


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Get rid of the undergravel filter. It's nothing but a trap for organic waste and eventual anaerobic bacteria problems.


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## Landau (Apr 28, 2010)

Cheapest I've used is Pea-Gravel from my local building supply store. I spent $3 for a 2inch layer on my 29G (30 inches by 12 inches) - worked great. IT was a little to coarse to hold smaller plants in place though.

Landau


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## Adam (Dec 17, 2012)

I have to agree with wheels, loose the ugf and go with sand. I work in a gravel pit and tested out all sizes of sand and gravel before picking filter sand, its cheap easy to clean a nice uniform size with rounded granules and not very dusty. Just be sure its silica based so it wont alter your ph.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I have around 50lb+ beach color sugar sand for $20. Can't beat that price if you like the color.


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## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

Adam said:


> I have to agree with wheels, loose the ugf and go with sand. I work in a gravel pit and tested out all sizes of sand and gravel before picking filter sand, its cheap easy to clean a nice uniform size with rounded granules and not very dusty. Just be sure its silica based so it wont alter your ph.


your really against the UGF ehh what is soo bad about them?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Think about it, when the debris/organics go into the the UGF where do they go? When you use and a HOB/canister/sump, when you clean the media, where does the waste go? There's your answer right there.


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## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Think about it, when the debris/organics go into the the UGF where do they go? When you use and a HOB/canister/sump, when you clean the media, where does the waste go? There's your answer right there.


so you would suggest running my 30 gallon sump with a lot of media and just ditch the UGF?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

How much media depends on your stocking. Whether you had an UGF or not would not have changed anything. With a 210 gallon full of sand and a 30 gallon sump say with 4 L of bio media, you would be more than ready to go. My 100 gallon cube only has 2 L of bio media maybe and more than fully stocked.


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## couch (Apr 22, 2010)

Lordco sandblasting sand is cheap and inert.


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## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

ok thanks so much


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

how about foundry sand ?
specifically ceramic foundry sand (very round)
typically sold at up to 2mm grain size

i'm tracking down price estimates

Edit:
from alibaba - 1ton = $400 (granted that's too much sand, but who's to say you can't sell the extra to make back your $$$)
(large price range on alibaba)
Olivine foundry sand is also round (as opposed to olivine sandblasing sand - which will be angular)


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

been looking at sands all morning, 
sandblasting sand is very angular (sharp)


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## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

whats a cheap local sand that i could have with rays?


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

trying to find distributors for foundry sand, ... 
closest i could find that deals with sand from Optaminerals.com
optaminerals supplies silica, olivine, & ceramic (silica being the cheapest)
distributor i could find they deal with princess auto

also looking up glass beads (also used for sandblasting)

Edit:
glass beads for sand blasting are preferred for their ability to clean surfaces in more of a polishing manner instead of acting like a rough abrasive


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

guestimates about prices, ... $20-$30 for 50lb or more
without being able to call any of these places i have no idea.


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

-glass beads
from kramerDepot.com
$65-$70 for 50lb (depends on size of glass beads)

princessauto.com
55lb - $40 (does not list grain size)


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## Longimanus (Apr 21, 2010)

Silica sand from Lordco, 50lb bag cost me under $12 tax included and it looks great in the tank. Probably not good for rays though as it might be on the rough side.


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

yup, generic silica is going to be rather rough.
i know what i'm looking up is of a different concern than for aquarium use, ... for sandblasting and even for foundry casting, there is a huge concern about silica dust (don't remember what they called it even though i've seen it a dozen times or so), ... did read the big concern is that it sits in the lungs and excessive amounts breathed in can reach levels considered a carcinogen hazard for your lungs.

till i read that description i thought nothing about why everyone is so concerned about it it.


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## stlove1 (Dec 19, 2010)

I replaced my gravel with sand from lordco at about $13 for 50lbs. If you're interested I can give you the gravel I took out but it's a grey ish colour. I've got several buckets of it.


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

you want something that won't be rough on your rays, dark, cheap, local, and something you can use with an undergravel filter (if you still want the UGF)

undergravel is going to compact your sand with detritus (forget where, someone did something simular and found it was trying to turn itself into sandstone - undergravel will never do anything with that)

if you want to keep your undergravel your looking at fine gravel or courser (no sand)

might want to reconsider what you want, your kinda asking for "all the above" and those don't agree with each other.

Edit:
similar to how many people what "the best", ... sadly they don't care what it's best for as what one excels at in one area is going to suck at in other areas

the undergravel is going to fight "cheap"
dark is going to fight something gentle on your rays
cheap is going to fight what's gentle on your rays

but you can do cheap and dark really easy, ... your going to get some very abrasive sand

pick a budget, work with it.
find how much substrate you want
do you want sand, or gravel
3" deep will cover a 30"x12" = 50lb (if i remember correctly)
50lb of glass beads is going to be $40+
50lb of play sand $15 (sounds like)

do these work with your budget ?, what's your priorities ?, your budget or your fish ?

would 1/2" work, ... are your fish going to want to dig ?, would 2" be better ?


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

The cheapest substrate would be no substrate at all. Just go barebottom. If you do want some substrate for your tank, just a light coat of sand would be suffice enough not to harbour anaerobic buildups.


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## Longimanus (Apr 21, 2010)

Flear said:


> yup, generic silica is going to be rather rough.
> i know what i'm looking up is of a different concern than for aquarium use, ... for sandblasting and even for foundry casting, there is a huge concern about silica dust (don't remember what they called it even though i've seen it a dozen times or so), ... did read the big concern is that it sits in the lungs and excessive amounts breathed in can reach levels considered a carcinogen hazard for your lungs.
> 
> till i read that description i thought nothing about why everyone is so concerned about it it.


Maybe when they are actually using it for sandblasting, but when I dumped out my bag of sand from Lordco there was not really any dust involved. It rinsed clean in no time too. Great stuff.


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

i'm considering glass bead sandblasting media for a substrate, would look rather strange for sure
also considering ceramic foundry sand - would be a very light color, near white


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

I go to a feed supply like Otter Co-Op out on the Frazer Highway 248 ?th ?
I buy a 70 # sack of Chicken Grit/crushed granite

I use it under the sand to provide landscaping asistance for planting and other decorations.


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## shift (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm going to swap out my subtrate in the next few days. i'm going with a nice thick layer of Miracle grow organic potting soil capped with some Eco-complete.. potting soil was about 9$ eco complete is the pricy part but you could cap it with just about anything for a cheap top layer


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## EBJD Guy (Jan 28, 2013)

so what sort of substrate would I need for rays that's generally cheap? no one seems to be answering my question directly


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

EBJD Guy said:


> so what sort of substrate would I need for rays that's generally cheap? no one seems to be answering my question directly


Hmmm...I summarized all the responses for you. Seems you got plenty of answers but you don't like them. If that's the case, you have to do your own research instead of asking and getting answers you don't like.



target said:


> Pool filter sand is probably one of the cheapest. Play sand too, but I've heard its much dirtier than pool filter.





Nicole said:


> You can get white or beige pool filter sand, about $17 for 50lb bag. Or visit a landscaping supply store and choose from whatever pebble/rocks you want.





Landau said:


> Cheapest I've used is Pea-Gravel from my local building supply store. I spent $3 for a 2inch layer on my 29G (30 inches by 12 inches) - worked great. IT was a little to coarse to hold smaller plants in place though.
> 
> Landau





charles said:


> I have around 50lb+ beach color sugar sand for $20. Can't beat that price if you like the color.





couch said:


> Lordco sandblasting sand is cheap and inert.





Flear said:


> how about foundry sand ?
> specifically ceramic foundry sand (very round)
> typically sold at up to 2mm grain size
> 
> ...





Longimanus said:


> Silica sand from Lordco, 50lb bag cost me under $12 tax included and it looks great in the tank. Probably not good for rays though as it might be on the rough side.





jobber said:


> The cheapest substrate would be no substrate at all. Just go barebottom. If you do want some substrate for your tank, just a light coat of sand would be suffice enough not to harbour anaerobic buildups.


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

EBJD, you want cheap, ... unfortunatly cheap is also angular, you want something round grained for your rays, that's going to cost you more.

now you want a direct answer, no one can give a more direct answer than the question your asking and your question is asking for 2 things that are conflicting with each other.

you want a direct answer, ask a direct question, ... cheap is $10 for 50lb of angular sand, round for your rays is $40 for 50lb of very round sand.

EBJD, figure out what your going to sacrifice, are you going to sacrifice cost, or are you going to sacrifice your rays ?

if you want black, your going to get angular & expensive (or possibly toxic)

your asking for impossible miracle stuff that doesn't exist, ... might be why all the people that have answered have not given a clear answer. your asking for something just does not exist.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

If you're going to spend money on a ray, which is a gorgeous and expensive; don't think you would want to cheap out on the substrate for the health and well-being of the ray.

Simple, easy to clean, no anaerobic problems, no need to think at all of what substrate. keep it clean, keep it simple, keep it bare-bottom like many others out there do.


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## davej (Apr 28, 2010)

EBJD said:


> go stare at your silly fish tanks....


maybe your in the wrong hobby?
People are only trying to help


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

EBJD Guy said:


> Who ---- in your coffee today buddy... sorry i was changing mind throughout the thread you dont have to be a ---- about it. Think your all that being some cool donator on some forum page. Sorry not all of us know as much as you do.... im a 16 year old kid who's not to sure about a sump system and UGF so you just take your little s---- comment and go stare at your silly fish tanks....
> 
> thanks everyone for all the help sorry if i wasn't supper specific with my question


This is the first and only warning you will get before you take a guaranteed vacation from BCA. In the http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/introduction-area-4/site-rules-2780/ you will find rule #1 clearly states:
*Rule 1: Every member who chooses to post and view this board must agree to respect every member who is a part of this forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and everyone is entitled to voice their opinions. Personal attacks are frowned upon, so do not do it! 
&
Rule 2: Excessive swearing is not permitted. BCAquaria has members who fall into different age groups, so let's keep it clean. Remember, BCAquaria is a family site and is opened to everyone, so please consider the younger viewers before posting. *

Everybody has been respectful of you through all your mind changes. 16 years old or not, your attitude and use of unacceptable language will not be tolerated!! You will find yourself insta- banned next time this happens!!
2wheels is very knowledgeable and is highly respected around here with his wealth of knowledge. I personally think his summary post made a good point. He as well as anyone else is simply trying to be helpful. 
If you haven't figured it out yet POOL FILTER SAND is the cheapest , next to playsand(which I do not recommend) Then the sand Charles offered was pretty cheap as well. Any other sand on the market is going to be a minimal of $1 per pound approx. I have closed this thread. If you wish to further continue the discussion, I suggest you step outside, take a deep breathe , change the attitude and try again. If you decide to start a thread as such, think it out first and be as specific as possible. We have had members in the past who start a thread as such and seem to keep shooting down advice given to eventually frustrate people to where they don't care to help these hard headed people, better known as trolls. So please don't turn into one as well. This is a great group of people to learn from , especially 2wheels. BCA is a great community to be a part of as it's filled with kind, generous, helpful and knowledgeable people. I really recommend you take my advice and try to be a bit more respectful if you wish to be a part of this community!


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