# my pea puffer just sits on the gravel or leaves



## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

As the title said, one of my pea puffers are not eating and just rests on the gravel or leaves. the other 2 puffers are very active and taking anything that I give them and have not attacked each other at all (atm).

I dropped a small pond snail near the one who sits on gravel and took the snail but her/his belly isn't round as others.. no visible damage on him/her at all.

what should I do? should I take him or her out and feed the snail and put her/him back in?? 
has anyone experienced this with puffers? 

water parameter is good ph 7.2 ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 10 gh 5 kh 2.


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Dude that water is very low in carbonate hardness and also very soft overall... Your PH must be swinging like crazy. You should be aiming for more like twenty degrees KH, and that will bring your GH up as well, but you may want to add some salt as well... Do these things ASAP, but make the changes gradual so that they don't go into shock (over the course of several hours or even days).

I've never kept this species or any puffer, but from a quick internet search on a reputable site, I was able to quickly find out this much info... I've also found that they should have at least 3 gallons per puffer, and that the males could potentially kill each other, and also kill females, so your 12G tank is probably far too small for a group of six aggressive fish.

I don't want to sound condescending here... Where did you do your research before you bought these guys? You might want to consider another source.

Found my info here: Carinotetraodon travancoricus (Dwarf Puffer) - Seriously Fish


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I only got 3 pea puffers. PH has been stable for 2 weeks.. I will add salts after this.. thanks.


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Oh. I'm sorry, I thought I read in the other thread that you had six puffers. Anyway, with very aggressive fish you want lots and lots of space generally speaking, so they'll have their own territories and be less inclined to kill each other. Also lots of deco or plants to break up the line of vision so someone getting beat up will be able to retreat, and when the aggressor can't see him any more, the fight will end without someone dying. 

Remember, not just salt. Carbonate hardness comes from calcium carbonate which comes from limestone, coral, sea shells, baking soda, Alkaline tonic from the pet store etc. Marine or African cichlid salt mixed with baking soda will work. Add to the water change bucket, not the tank.

I know how hard it is to lose fish, and I really feel sorry for you, and I didn't mean to be harsh or rude at all.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

no worries lividing. no offence taken..


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

If you want to bump up the hardness, I use Seachem Alkaline Buffer for kH and Seachem Equilibrium for gH. King Ed Pets, J&L and Island Pets all carry it, I think. Just make any changes gradually, as quick swings are hard on the fish. Lower Mainland water is super soft...it can be difficult to adjust. We lost I don't know how many fancy guppies until we got it adjusted for them.

Puffers are cute! Post pics!


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks elle! I will make the trip to j&l tomorrow.
I have been using african cichlid conditioner that effox(chris) and steve recommended for GH boost in my shrimp tank. I have been working on getting gh 5 and kh 2 for cbs or crs past 2 weeks. 

i didn't think about pea puffer needs hard water(higher kh) newbie mistake  
I think i posted pics in my tank journal (alicia's pea puffer tank project)


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Not that I'm a puffer guy either; but the web says it doesn't have to be particularly hard. A kH of 2 degrees is probably a bit low though; so buffering it up a bit is probably a good idea (5-10 degrees KH might be better). Seachem Alkaline buffer is essentially expensive baking soda; so you don't have to go any farther than your kitchen to get some. Personally I use potassium bicarb 'cause it's a better otion for planted tanks (it's significantly harder to get though). Crushed coral in the filter is another option for increasing both KH and GH; but it's a bit unpredictable.

I don't think the hardness is the issue though (it is within the recommended range, although on the low end of it). Maybe try some other food (brine shrimp possibly? Bloodworm?); see what happens.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks rockman! is baking soda dosing is same as alkaline buffer dosing? no wonder why my plants in 90G grows slowly..


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

The dosing should be about the same; however that's more a general guideline than anything else. With buffers, you add them slowly enough to avoid large swings in water chemistry (the lower the KH in the water you're trying to buffer, the more susceptible it is to swings in pH... adding lots of baking soda at once could shock the fish). Use your test kits to tell you how you're doing.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Adding crushed gravel to your filter can help with long term buffering. You can also use crushed coral or aragonite sand as a substrate in your puffer tank to buffer it naturally.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks seahorse.. if i add crushed coral in the filter, will it result ph swing or sudden shock to fish?

BTW I'm glad that I listened to you about nano reef tank.. lol holly molly! it is expensive to have one lol


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## Tazzy_toon (Jul 25, 2011)

I've always read that salt is a bad idea for dwarf puffers, I have one just like yours, would only eat snails for the first 2 weeks, now she's eating a bit more blood worms or brine shrimp, but still prefers to pick off baby snails from the tank walls. They are known to be finicky eaters and prefer live foods.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks tazzy toon! hopefully he/she will eat a snail that i put in breeding box.. i gotta get some snail or live brine shrimps tomorrow...


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> if i add crushed coral in the filter, will it result ph swing or sudden shock to fish?


Probably not initially. Crushed coral dissolves very slowly; so the changes are gradual. You can have the reverse problem though if you do large enough water changes with low hardness water; the sudden drop in mineral content can do bad things to fish. That's something to watch.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks rockman!! ahh! my brain is about to explode lol


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Heheh... yeah. Just be happy nobody breaks out the math. A proper intro to buffer chemistry makes up a whole upper level university course.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I HATE chemistry! hahaha lol never been good at it (in high school and post secondary school)


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

yeah, im going to have to start dosing with baking soda, maybe add some crushed coral into my AC20


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

If you go the baking soda route, remember to use something else to adjust the GH as well. There's a bunch of commercial products (Seachem equilibrium et al) or you can go DIY with some magnesium sulphate (epsom salt) and Calcium Chloride (commonly sold for pools as a calcium additive... check the MSDS) for significantly cheaper.

Crushed coral is much more set and forget (it'll keep the kH and GH in the right ballpark for years at at time), but is a bit less predictable in terms of what you end up with. Plus the aforementioned water changing issue.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

I have been using african cichlid conditioner that other members recommended for GH boost. I will however get equilibrium tomorrow for my 90G tank.. hmm a while ago i removed a coral rock because of slow increase of PH in my 90g tank.. I wonder if i can add them in my 12G tank for KH buffer...


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> I have been using african cichlid conditioner that other members recommended for GH boost. I will however get equilibrium tomorrow for my 90G tank.. hmm a while ago i removed a coral rock because of slow increase of PH in my 90g tank.. I wonder if i can add them in my 12G tank for KH buffer...


Yeah that'll work.. Limestone, corals, shells, baking soda, it's all the same thing. The reason for using crushed coral is that after a while algae and slimy film will cover whatever large pieces you have in the tank, and it'll stop working but if you rinse it off in hot water every once in a while it shouldn't be a problem. Best to get a bag of crushed coral and just stick it inside your filter when you get to it.


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Tazzy_toon said:


> I've always read that salt is a bad idea for dwarf puffers, I have one just like yours, would only eat snails for the first 2 weeks, now she's eating a bit more blood worms or brine shrimp, but still prefers to pick off baby snails from the tank walls. They are known to be finicky eaters and prefer live foods.


That's a good point.. All tap water has minerals in it though, mostly salt. So people who live in hard water areas always have "salt" in their puffer tanks... Not all puffers are the same.. I am no expert, but I'm pretty sure that some of them do need brackish water. These ones apparently don't, but they evidently do need semi-hard water = water with minerals in it, including salt.

Also, marine salt has more than just "salt" in it.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

ok I better add the coral rock tomorrow. Adding something in fluval edge tank is pain! 
so my next question is this... as far as i understand, boosting KH will result PH increase... most of my fishes are happy with current PH.... then what should i do to lower PH?? adding more stuff like almond leaves, peat moss in the filter or driftwood? adding peat moss AND crush coral in the filter at the same time?? 

The reason I removed one of coral rock is because of high PH.

BTW the pea puffer in the breeding tank isn't even eating a pond snail  maybe i add the one that is too big for him/her..


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> ok I better add the coral rock tomorrow. Adding something in fluval edge tank is pain!
> so my next question is this... as far as i understand, boosting KH will result PH increase... most of my fishes are happy with current PH.... then what should i do to lower PH?? adding more stuff like almond leaves, peat moss in the filter or driftwood? adding peat moss AND crush coral in the filter at the same time??
> 
> The reason I removed one of coral rock is because of high PH.
> ...


I don't understand. Why do you want to lower the PH? 
I think you should just focus on keeping the PH stable with adequate buffering. From what I've read, the #1 way to kill everything is by adding this and that to raise and lower your PH...

The limestone rock will raise the PH in the puffer tank as it raises your KH. That's okay. Better to have a stable PH as soon as possible.. From what I remember it was a pretty gradual increase that you were having in the community with that rock in it anyway. I think your puffer will be much happier with a higher, stable PH.


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## Tazzy_toon (Jul 25, 2011)

i've been using nutrifin Kh booster and it's kept my water stable at 7kh and 7 gh. no ph crashes or anything.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Oh ok so are you saying PH is not as critical as water being stable? I guess gradual increase ph in the water is ok. I was wondering about that as when I look up on the web, each fish has Ideal PH range as well as hardness of water.. 

BTW thanks for the link about water chemistry  it really helps


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> Oh ok so are you saying PH is not as critical as water being stable? I guess gradual increase ph in the water is ok. I was wondering about that as when I look up on the web, each fish has Ideal PH range as well as hardness of water..
> 
> BTW thanks for the link about water chemistry  it really helps


Exactly! PH works like the Richter scale for earthquakes... every degree it changes is actually an increase 10x, so even a very small change in PH is a massive shock to your fish. For a long time people thought that meant that certain fish had to have exact PH values, but now they know it's a lot better to have a stable PH, whatever the value is...

so a fish might have a range from 6.5 - 8 that will work, but it has to be 6.5 and stay that way, or 7 and stay that way, etc.. Not changing from one to the other.

Outside of breeding, it doesn't seem to be very crucial that they have the "right" PH.

*edit* no problem, happy to help. I found it very useful for making it all understandable, in that they use simple explanations, and it didn't feel like being back in highschool chemistry class. (Hint... I didn't do well in chemistry!  )


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Ahhhhhhh!! what the heck am i doing at 1am?? pea puffer, water chemistry, crystal black shrimps, red cherry shrimplets, coral rocks, trip to J&L tomorrow.. wait a minute! I gotta work tomorrow starting at 6:30 am and can't sleep!!! lol


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

Yeah ph isn't an issue as its in the 6-8 range is pretty much suitable for most fish except Africans and such it matters more that the pH is stable for the as swings in pH can cause sickness and such.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/isla...sting-hardness-your-aquarium-7033/index2.html

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/isla...r-supply-issue-lower-mainland-715/index3.html


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Thanks diztrbd1 for the threads!! trip to J&L tonight!


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## Tazzy_toon (Jul 25, 2011)

how's the puffer today? Any change?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

he/she is not doing well...  not even eating snails.. i even put snails near his mouth but does not eat it.. he/she took a bite on bloodworm but that's about it.. staying on the bottom of breeding box... I made the trip to j&l and got all buffering solutions and even brine shrimp eggs.. Hopefully, he/she will eat live brine shrimp...


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