# My oranda is dying...



## Jing (Aug 30, 2011)

About two weeks ago the fishes in my tank were hit with ick so I began treatment for it right away. Plants and decorations were removed from the tank and only the sponge part of the filter remained. There were 3 goldfishes - an oranda, ryukin, and a sarasa comet. The ryukin had a mild case of swimbladder disease that seemed to be on and off but it wasn't until the ick went away that the swimbladder really took a toll on the ryukin and after struggling for another 4-5 days, he soon passed away.

After the ryukin died, the oranda started behaving quite strangely. I don't know if it's due to the loss of his friend or the fact that around that time I put the plants and decorations back in the tank which might have stressed him out. It is worth mentioning that when the fishes had ick, the oranda had it the worst. A couple days ago I came home and looked at the tank, only to find that my oranda's tail had got caught in the suction tube of the filter. Immediately I disconnected the power to it and let him free and plugged it back in, but noticed that my oranda was too weak to swim away from it and almost got sucked into it again so I left the filter unplugged. His tail is damaged and missing pieces from it. Ever since that day it seems as if the oranda is on the verge of death and his body is bent in a C shape and he can hardly move.

I should also note that I don't have the space for another small tank where I can quarantine my sick fish.

Can anyone give some insight as to what might be wrong with my fish? I'd like to save him but fear that it might be too late...


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Your fish is sick because they are stressed. Stressed from what you ask? Probably from the water conditions and tank environment. 

How big is your tank? 
How frequent do you do water changes? 
How much are you feeding each day and frequencies? 
How much of the food is not eaten? 
What is the pH, GH, and temperature? 
What do you dose into your tank? 

You need to find the root of the problem. Most, saying 95%, of the time, it is because of the tank conditions. All tanks and fish have ick, it's about how strong and immune your fish are.

Please answer the questions above so forum members can know help determine the cause of the problem.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

in addition, you should not remove anything to treat ich as it is far more efficient to treat your whole tank with everything in it.


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## Jing (Aug 30, 2011)

How big is your tank? 
*10gal*

How frequent do you do water changes? 
*Weekly interval, 30-40% changed each time. When the fishes had ick, daily 25% water changes were done for 10 days or so.*

How much are you feeding each day and frequencies? 
*Each fish is fed 3 small pellets once per day. This is the brand of food they eat.*









How much of the food is not eaten? 
*No leftovers.*

What is the pH, GH, and temperature? 
*Not sure what the water temperature is, but ambient room temperature is roughly 20 deg celsius. If I had to guess the water temperature is below that. Unsure about pH and GH.*

What do you dose into your tank?
*Everytime I do the water change I add in about 5ml of water conditioner and 2.5ml bacteria supplement. 















When the fishes had ick I would add about 5ml of this into the water when I did the daily water changes. 







*


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## Jing (Aug 30, 2011)

charles said:


> in addition, you should not remove anything to treat ich as it is far more efficient to treat your whole tank with everything in it.


I read somewhere that the ich treatment would kill the plants and that the charcoal filter had to be removed or else it would just filter out the treatment.


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## djamm (Sep 25, 2010)

Sad Situation...
Personally, I might look at euthanizing the poor fish...


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

I'm not a goldfish or fish keeping expert, but take the information I give you and decide upon what you think will work for your situation.

I'm assuming your tank is brand new within the month. Tank size of 10 gallon for 3 goldfish could work given a regime of water changes; but are the goldfish going to be happy. 
Fluctuations of water parameters (pH, nitrate, ....) can stress the fish out. 10 gallon is not a lot water volume and so you can either have 1 goldfish or schools of tiny tetras. 

My intuitive guess is that your fish is stressed due to the fluctuations in water parameters given that your tank is going through a cycling period.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

goldfish produce a lot of waste, not just faeces but from the gills, too. In addition to the suggestions others have given, I'd add that 10 gallons is really just too small for 3 goldies, of any type, even with diligent water changes.


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## djamm (Sep 25, 2010)

Ursus sapien said:


> goldfish produce a lot of waste,...10 gallons is really just too small...


I strongly agree! 30 gallon is the smallest I would keep goldfish in...


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

djamm said:


> I strongly agree! 30 gallon is the smallest I would keep goldfish in...


my sister has two plump oranda crosses in a 33 and we're already talking about bumping her up to a 50.

A goldfish site a few years back recomended 40 gallons per fish for comet types (fast and slim-ish) and 20 gallons each for orandas and other 'round' types. Maybe someone with more experience could verify/debunk that?


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## Jing (Aug 30, 2011)

I've had the tank for around 4 months now so I wouldn't say that it's a new tank, and I'd love to have a much bigger tank (30gal+) but there just isn't the space for one at home.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Storm: you always managed to scare me. I have 6 shubukni and 2 comets in a 33 gallon since the summer. All 8" long. They were were supposed to be in ponds but those raccoons rather have them in their stomach.

Jing: If you love your fish, don't torture them in a 10 gallon where you will eventually loose them. Keep some smaller fish instead. I am not sure but I think they could be underfed as well. That is the problem with small tanks with larger fish, too much or too little feeding, you will have problem.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

gklaw said:


> Storm: you always managed to scare me. I have 6 shubukni and 2 comets in a 33 gallon since the summer. All 8" long. They were were supposed to be in ponds but those raccoons rather have them in their stomach.
> 
> Jing: If you love your fish, don't torture them in a 10 gallon where you will eventually loose them. Keep some smaller fish instead. I am not sure but I think they could be underfed as well. That is the problem with small tanks with larger fish, too much or too little feeding, you will have problem.


Gordon, don't mean to frighten you I made a lot of mistakes in the begining (still do, unfortunately), and it was always the fish that paid. Just passing on the lessons I learned the hard way.

Jing, if you rehome your goldfish, I'd be happy to pass on some of my long fin white cloud juvies to replace them.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Goldfish need cold water to avoid ick. 
Maybe you can get a cube tank. Tall and small square.
Or get a ha
F barrel and a liner ?

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.274978,-122.835482


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

I've got fancy goldfish - 11 of them in a 108 gallon tank, and I'm doing 25%-50% water changes weekly. You need at least 30g for a single fancy, 40 for the comets. Ich is usually triggered by stress, and you've got a situation (poor water conditions, lack of space) that guarantees it. You REALLY need to rehome the goldfish and go with smaller fish if all you have space for is a 10 gallon. There are lots of people on the forum who can help with giving the fish a new home or trading for more appropriate fish for your tank.

Can you provide any answers to the questions jobber asked above?

Is the oranda still alive? If so, I would immediately change out at least 50% of the water. Fancy goldfish like a temperature of around 22C and a PH of about 7.0. Take out the decorations and gravel and make sure the filter is running. If the goldfish is getting pulled towards it, you can rubber band a piece of clean nylon pantyhose over it to stop him from getting sucked in. You need that filter running to clear waste and provide water movement. 

If he is still missing any tail pieces, Melafix or aquarium salt may help.


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