# Fin Amputation - Scared.



## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

In my previous thread I mentioned that my Betta has a broken dorsal fin caused possibly by the filter outflow pushing his fins around.

The fin is clearly broken in two places. A few of the rays at the base are broken and a few just above the base are broken as well. He cannot flare his dorsal and it is only semi functional. The base rays are a little red.

Since treating him for a seperate case of severe fin rot with Tetracycline is doing better now. Active and not hiding anymore and eating a lot. The dorsal fin does not seem to be bothering him...yet.

Another member suggested amputation. I don't know the correct procedure for this and I am really afraid of doing it. Do you think it is necessary at this stage? Should I wait and see if the fin gets worst? I don't know if broken rays can heal.

Hope you can offer some advice. Thanks.


----------



## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

So sorry to hear about the problems your having with your Betta Atom. I wish I could offer any help in this , but I can't. I do hope for the best as I know you love him, I'm sure some good advice will come along soon enough. I know I read somewhere recently about a gal doing some cosmetic type surgery on her discus due to fin problems so the fin trim sounds doable if absolutely necessary, but I definitely have no expert type opinions on this lol If it were me, and it seemed to be getting better , I'd probably give it a couple more days and see what happens anyway Good luck & keep the faith.


----------



## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

I say take it slow!
Not sure if I agree with the amputation, if he's doing alot better, give him a chance to heal first! It's not worth wrecking his fins at the moment, at least that's my opinion!

Btw.. good luck Atom... i think we all know how much you luv that guy. I've also been reading on the threads you posted since you got him and shared with us, sure enough I haven't posted anything, but best of luck!


----------



## ibenu (Apr 21, 2010)

BRoken rays rarely do , in LF plecos Ive seen them grow back but with a bend were the break was. My concern was a spreading infection for your betta, it being unresponsive to treatments you had tried (If i recall correctly)

For a small fish I have put it in a restrictive clear tupperware container with its own aquarium water.

Prepare your equiptment.
Sterilized small sharp scissors 
latex gloves if you think you are going to remove the fish..
container for the betta,
bright light above fish but below your eye level..

emptying water till its in the bottom corner covered with water but restricted to swim away... (for in container amputation)

Place under light and snip conservatively but be sure to go up a few millimetres up from the area of concern.. 

remove what you cut off add more aquarium water and examine from all sides to see if the affected area has all been removed.. 

If not empty water till they are in the corner again and remove more...

Place back in pristine aquarium make sure you use aquarium salts always for betta it highly recommended by betta keepers and if your not using at already start..

Start out 1tsp per 10g then up to 1tbls per 5 over corse of a week as to not drastically change the environment... aquarium or rock or sea salt (organic) would work.

be brave!!

I would like to add this is really a last ditch idea to make ensure your fish survives and is not ravaged by this. I hope you will continue recommended treatment for what ever you determine it is that is causing the issue so It does not resurface..

I hope he makes it!!!

I had viewed a pictorial on how to give my discus a haircut as he had had rot in the past.. before I got him and it grew back spotty and tattered.. I never got around to it and months later I see slow but sure improvement on its own. 

With your betta Im concerned broken rays mean no more blood provided to the area after it, thus it will rot and add to his inability to recover naturally, hence my recommendation to remove...

Lisa


----------



## kelly528 (Apr 21, 2010)

Not sure if fin rays have pain receptors (I am assuming the rays would have nerve endings) but in all the surgeries I have seen (which are mostly goldfish surgeries) the fish is first sedated with finquel.

Whatever you do make sure you keep the water REALLY clean after.


But looking back at your thread I don't think this is necessary if he seems to be recovering with the tertacycline... if what Ibenu said about the fin rays carrying blood is true you could be severing quite a few moderately big vessels by amputating.


----------



## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the concern and advice. Maybe I should post a photo or something.

The broken dorsal is another problem on top of the fin rot, which I am treating him for. The dorsal is a seperate incident. 

He seems to be responding to treatment for the fin rot, but I don't think tetracycline does anything for snapped rays, correct? Part of the snap is at the very base close to the body. Another part is a little farther up the fin. I am particularly worried about the part close to the body and a possible infection on top of his other problems.

I will definitely watch him closely and continue treatment for his fin rot.

ibenu, thanks for the instructions. I will keep it in mind and if I have to do it. I guess I will have to.


----------



## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

Gee this sounds pretty scary. Sorry to hear about this, Atom. You seem to take very good care of your fish and I'm sure you'll do your best, whatever the outcome is. Best of luck.


----------



## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh jeez...the entire dorsal just just broke off...completely. Well almost all of it apart from 2 rays and the rest is just dangling off it. I guess the tissue was dying and just couldn't hold it in place anymore. He has no dorsal fin anymore. Will this even grow back?

Should I intervene and just clip the rest of the rays off?

This is really frustrating. I have no idea what is wrong with him and why this is happening to him. The parameters are all in check.


----------



## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

I think you shouldn't intervene, watever wuz dying came off, wutever is left should be holding and fighting whatever disease it's left of it!

As for growing back? I had quite a few bettas back in the day, with all honesty, I know they always grow back.. but will never be the same =( and never as long and proportional~

This was one of my main reason why I get them all fat and healthy again, find him a mate, and luv their offsprings instead =)


----------



## kelly528 (Apr 21, 2010)

Okay since its come to this you might want to consider taking the rest off. Especially if you are only cutting 2 rays at this point (correct me if I'm wrong). My main concern would be that the hanging portion of dorsal fin could snag on decor or even get torn off by fast swimming / strong currents.

As with every wound, keep steady on the T.C. and keep the water pristine so as to prevent infection until things close up a little.


----------



## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

Update...

Lumos seems to be doing fairly well despite not having much of a dorsal fin left. He still has the two rays that are dangling off him. They look like they are going to fall off any day now, but hasn't yet. I am debating whether or not take it off myself since it is a bit red. 

His fin rot has stopped and is not red anymore.

He is on the second cycle of TC. Should I stop after this cycle? How do I know when to stop?


----------



## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi Atom,
It sounds like your betta is making some good progress! That is wonderful. I'm not a fish doctor but as long as your betta has symptoms (especially redness) I would continue to treat him. I'd probably try a third cycle of TC and possibly follow that with a different medication, on the advice of an experienced fishkeeper or aquarium store staffer. For a very serious and rapidly progressing illness like Lumos had, I think that a month of antibiotic wouldn't be too much. As well, I'd watch for a secondary fungal infection. 

But that's just me -- I'd opt to risk overmedicating rather than letting the infection flare up and overpower him. 

I'm really happy with your good news and I hope that his fins grow back to their full glory as he reaches good health.


----------



## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

Well I spoke to soon. He has started tailbiting again because part of his tail that was healing is once again red. Pretty sure this part was bitten because I saw him earlier doing a weird bend to look at his tail. 
This fish is crazy.

I just want to bang my head against the wall.

I will have to continue medicating. Does anyone know any stores that carry Ampicillin?


----------



## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi Atom,
Oh, that is rotten! Poor guy.
I don't know where to find ampicillin. However, what would you think of continuing his current medication (Tetracycline?) until you can get some API Triple Sulfa, either online or from a local store. BigAls carries it. It's supposed to be good for septicemia and fin rot and it would be a completely new medication. (But remember, I'm not a fish doctor! I'm just winging out suggestions based upon what I would try.)

API Triple Sulfa Powder - 10 Pack - Medications - Bacterial at BigalsOnline


----------



## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

Morainy, 

I am going to continue this round of treatment of TC definitely. I will then try the API Triple Sulfa. I remember looking at it in the store and noticed all of the API meds seem to treat the same illnesses. I debated on Triple Sulfa, but could not figure out what made it different from TC. Does anyone know? Is it a stronger med?

I know this guy will heal up and just tear his fins again and then he will get finrot. It's like a game he likes to torture with me. I've had him for a month now and he has finrot the entire time.

I appreciate all your concern, Morainy. You have been very helpful.


----------



## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

A self-destructing betta? But maybe he's learned his lesson now. Fin rot can't be fun.

I am sorry, I don't know exactly how sulfa drugs differ from antibiotics in their treatment of fish diseases. I just think (without any expertise to back it up) that if you've completed the whole course of antibiotics more than once and the infection hasn't totally cleared, that it might be a good idea to try another drug that the infection isn't resistant to. On the other hand, I don't know if there's a point at which the drugs themselves might harm the fish.


----------



## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

Morainy said:


> A self-destructing betta? But maybe he's learned his lesson now. Fin rot can't be fun.


I think he wants to be a crowntail instead of a halfmoon


----------

