# Live Rock Questions



## Sea Witch (May 13, 2011)

Hi there:

I hope you'll forgive me if I ask a lot of questions. I hope some of them are intelligent.  I'm planning a first reef tank.

I'd like to know, aside from cost, shape, and density/porosity, is there any substantial difference between the types or amounts of wildlife on LR from different areas? i.e. do you get more of this or that from certain areas....?

Thanks,


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Great question! A lot of people base their rock purchase on price alone which is unfortunate as it is the most important component of a healthy reef system. I remember years ago when hobbyists would select each piece of rock by hand for that perfect piece or best variety in shapes.
The truth is, there are a lot of dense, poorly covered live rock out there. Some live rock is even pressure washed at the source if you can believe it. As well, a lot of live rock is shipped by sea, to save on freight costs. Imagine what a month at sea does to that "foundation" of your reef aquarium......

The ideal situation when purchasing live rock is getting from a source that collects light, loose, rubble. This type of rock has excellent coverage because it has not been broken from reefs in it's collection. Also rubble tends to be considerably lighter and more porous then rock mentioned previously.

Live rock has different shapes based on what the rock used to be before it became "rock". You can tell how the rock has been collected by the shapes and also if there are rough edges where it has been broken from the reef. All the rock at IPU for example is from our station in Vanuatu and is all loose rubble collected at depth. This is not a "plug" for IPU per se, just an example. We don't export a massive amount of rock due to the difficulty in proving quality over quantity but the customers that know the difference appreciate the efforts. I hope that answered your questions.


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## Sea Witch (May 13, 2011)

How long does it take to ship live rock, for example to me in Courtenay? (obviously the more time out of the water, the more die off there is.....)


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Shipping will be expensive. What size tank are you looking at?

I picked up Vanuatu live rock, so I can praise Grant's choice.


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## Sea Witch (May 13, 2011)

effox said:


> Shipping will be expensive. What size tank are you looking at?
> 
> I picked up Vanuatu live rock, so I can praise Grant's choice.


so you can vouch for a big variety of life on it?

Shipping is going to be expensive, but the rock is going to be expensive too. I view this as the most important thing that will go in the tank. I'm tired of (in aquariums and in other hobbies) buying 2nd rate stuff and then replacing it with the stuff I should have bought in the first place. So with this project, I want to buy the best that there is, and only do it once.

I'm more concerned about how long it takes to ship from the Vancouver area......24 hours? .....there is an airport here in Comox......

I'm planning a 230g tank (mostly reef, not many fish) with a 90g sump + a 50g upstream fuge + 50g frag tank (all one connected system) and 2 X 10g hospital/quar tanks unconnected. So I know the rock is going to be a fortune....not even sure exactly how much I need......that's why I'm doing my homework first! :bigsmile:


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## whatigot (Apr 30, 2010)

When I set up my first reef, a 72 gallon bow about 7 years ago, I went to buy some live rock determined to find the freshest with the greatest propensity for life that I could get...

I looked all over, went to several LFS and went to check out a few "fresh" shipments when they came in at all the usual suspects...

The rock I settled on was some Cuban LR I picked up at Kind Eds.
To this day, this LR still has porites, pistolshrimps, sponges, and all kinds of micro flora and fauna that I havent seen often in other tanks.

This is NOT the most porous rock out there, but it sure was the most "alive" I could find.

I would call in to different LFS and ask when they were getting their shipments in, from there, Id just go and have look.

when I found what I was looking for, the difference was obvious.


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## paul_28 (Jan 20, 2011)

do live rocks act as the filter? it got me thinking if a freshwater tank was heavly planted u would need no filter? but then no movement on the surface be no good for oxygenation. some use a reef to do all the work but filter keeps water moving.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

paul_28 said:


> do live rocks act as the filter? it got me thinking if a freshwater tank was heavly planted u would need no filter? but then no movement on the surface be no good for oxygenation. some use a reef to do all the work but filter keeps water moving.


I've got two koralia's powerheads and a maxijet going in mine to keep circulation.


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## Sea Witch (May 13, 2011)

paul_28 said:


> do live rocks act as the filter? it got me thinking if a freshwater tank was heavly planted u would need no filter? but then no movement on the surface be no good for oxygenation. some use a reef to do all the work but filter keeps water moving.


Okay these are two different things. So here's my $0.25 summary:

1. In a SW tank, the LR acts as a *biological* filter. There are bacteria that convert waste chemical into nitrite and nitrate. The LR has very little to do with chemical or mechanical filtration or oxygenation of the water. So you need water movement not just for oxygenation but also, because that the environment a lot of critters need, for example if they're filter feeders they need foods to pass by them in the current.

2. In a FW tank, the filter does the bio/chem/and mech. filtration *and* it helps oxygenate the water. If a FW tank is planted (heavily), the plants give off oxygen during the day, and give off CO2 at night. So you might be able to get away with less (or no) water agitation during the day, but you still need it at night. In a FW planted tank, the plants also take up nitrates, but they don't take up fish poop, so you still need water changes and *mechanical* filtration.

In both types of aquariums in theory it's possible to set them up to need very little or no water changes............but I'm skeptical. I'll stick to my water changes.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

You would still require some sort of mechanical filtration for sure. Live rock has been used as a biological filter for at least 25 years. Usually protein skimming and circulation alone combined with live rock will do the trick. The same can be said for a planted aquarium but you would still need mechanical filtration rather then a protein skimmer.
Water changes are essential to any system, theory or not we would not recommend it.


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## Sea Witch (May 13, 2011)

Does anyone in Canada ship LR in water?


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

The sharp edges will cut the bags. Short term shipping I would not worry about shipping dry, there is a lot of moisture within the rock to keep everyone happy for the trip.


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