# how to grow plants



## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

Sorry if I posted this in the wrong section, but I haven't seen where else this should go. 
I'm trying to grow some plants in my aquarium. I have tried in the past, but I wasn't successful, so here I go again. I was wondering what is the best approach and where to really start. I found tons of info on the net, but it's confusing. I started with fertilizer tabs and good light. I bought java fern and moss to start with. They are doing ok, but other plants that were suggested in the aquarium store not so much. I started adding equilibrium for plants and keep checking water hardness. I know I need co2 system, but not sure what is the best choice. Rogers aquarium sells one that they're using, but there is no info on the package, so I'm not sure on how to properly use it (placement, hook-up, adjustments etc.). It all sounds so easy when they explain it to me in the store right there. I have a good memory but I would like to confirm with someone to make sure I'm doing it right, you know what I mean. Any info on how you guys started and how long it took for you to have those beautiful underwater gardens would be appreciated. Oh and what plants I should get and what to stay away from for now. Thanx a bunch.
Viera


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

First of all, you dont need a CO2 system to have a planted tank.

I personally only rely on light and fish poop for my plants...and they grow like crazy.

I would suggest that you start with some easy to grow plants that have low light requirements.

If you can provide us with more details on your tank size (dimensions), substrate, lighting etc, we can provide more specific advice that would be useful for you.

Also, if you want you can come grab some Sunset Hygro off me and see how they work for you. You can have some for free since you are just starting out


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## InfraredDream (Jun 24, 2010)

Totally agree 
I only use low maintanance plants and believe me there is huge variety of them  And they all grow pretty well with nothing else then light and fish.
Sunset hydro is an excellent plant, I got mine from Smiladon and it grows great! The plant is very beautiful and undemanding.
I would also suggest hornwort (I can give you one small stem for free) - it grows real fast, it is great for the water quality and again very undemanding.
Check the plants sections, there was a topic from me asking for plants suggestions and somebody got me an awesome list of low light plants.

Good luck!


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## Captured Moments (Apr 22, 2010)

There are many "styles" of planted tanks. To suit your style, you will need to ask yourself:
How much money you want to spend?
How much time would you be willing to spend on maintenance (pruning, water change)?
What kind of plants would you like to grow?

For example, you could start with your current light setup. What's your existing light and would you be willing to upgrade/buy a light setup?


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## VinnyD (Apr 21, 2010)

i would invest on some decent substrate...and a nice light. the CO2 and yada depends on the size of tank, quantity of plant and type of plant you are planning to grow. the plants in my tank, i guess, are low maintenance cuz i dun add co2(i used to have diy co2) cuz they grow at a decent rate. btw i dun add any special additives to the tank for the plants. but yah maybe the other member can give you a better explanation and advice.


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## Nicklfire (Apr 21, 2010)

moved post to Plants/Algae/Ferts/EI/CO2/Lighting section


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

A low maintenance setup usually consist of 1.5 to 2 watt per gallon of light (Power compact and HO T5 on the lower end and standard T8 to T12 on the higher end), no CO2 and small amount of fertilizer, little to no water change


I have been growing ferns, crypts, moss, fissiden echindorous parviflorus 'Tropica', val, hydrophila polysperma, h polysperma 'sunset', with no CO2 and lots of surface movement.

I run a fairly lean fertilizer mixed at a ratio of N:K:Ca:Mg. 3-1-2-3.5-1.5 
NOTE: this is N and not NO3 and P and not PO4

This is tailor towards soft water of BC with no water change and inert substrate.

In my smaller tanks with no CO2, I add the pre-mixed once a week. This works out to roughly 5 ppm of N and do a 50% water change weekly. Lots of good surface movement to increase aeration to the tank. Reason being is that oxygen helps break down organic matter into inorganic nutrients that the plants can use. As a result will reduce algae which feeds off of organic matter. 

In my big tank with CO2, I run this at a dilution of 40% and add bi-daily, roughly 2 ppm of N, bi-daily and do not do any water change. 

In my emersed setup, I run this at 4x the concentration and change weekly.

The main focus is to keep the nutrients ratio fairly consistent. different elements react differently with each other. Some will cause inhibition (antagonism). If the Ca, K and Mg is out of proportion, plants will start showing sign of deficiency despite having all the nutrients in the water at higher level. likewise for other elements such as N, P and the trace element as well.

Ca helps with Cell structure and K helps with sugar and enzyme in plants. They work pretty much in relation to each other. When they are out of balance, plants cannot function properly because one of the nutrients get locked out by the plant. 

Adding little daily is better than adding larger amount infrequently if this is a fast growing set up. electrical conductivity is more stable in the tank without those swing and plants will be a lot happier.


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## user_error (Aug 15, 2010)

Viera, I could offer you some java fern or moss... pm me if interested. Grows very easily in as little as 0.5 watt per gallon if your water keeps steady nutrient levels, which you should be testing for every so often. 

In some cases if some nutrients are missing your plants won't grow well or will all die, I had that happen to me when I first started... I lost all of my crypt plants, I guess it was 5 or 6 of em, and then after that I also lost most of my java ferns. I didn't know why but now I do (there was not enough nitrates)

If I were you I'd take Smiladon / InfraredDream up on those offers, I don't have those plants myself but wish I did I'm just starting up a shrimp tank in a spare 5 gallon and they sound like they would easy to grown / maintain


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

Wow! Thank you so much for such a great response! Extra thanx for the great info and the offers. I would love to come and p/u the plants. I will pm you all.
So here is little bit more info about my tank. I have 20G with tropic sun 5500K daylight bulb, also it says on it F15T8. I have it on since about 4pm -10pm. I just moved in june and my place is pretty bright now. My aquarium is on the angle around the corner turned away from the window and does not get direct sun. Is it enought lightime or should I change the settings?
I have bought anubias plant little while ago and it is attached on the piece of wood. It was doing ok, but now it looks that it's not growing. It has been same for a while. Today I bought another anubias, this one has tall long thin leaves and Echinodorus quadricostatus (I think it's called dwarf sworplant). They have been recommended as a low maintenance, low light suitable plant. 
As for the investments, I don't mind buying a new lightbulb if necessary, but I would probably hold off on any more expensive investments for now. I do plant to spend more time on pruning and maintenance. For now, I will be happy if anything will start growing nicely in my tank. I see that you recommend fertilizers, any particular brands? Where would be best (possibly cheapest) place to get it? Oh and I also got nice piece of manzanita wood and I was thinking to attach some moss to it or maybe some fern?

Thanx again everybody. I apprieciate your time to respond
Viera


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

15 watt T8 bulb. 

You will not see a lot of growth in the tank with 1 tube of 15 watt T8. If you add another tube over the 20 gallon that would be way better or swap out the lights for 2 screw in fluorescent. Anything to bring the light to 1.5 to 2 watt per gallon. At 1.5 wpg, you can see some noticeable growth.

java fern, crypts, moss and anubias would be your best choice for your low light set up. 

What kind of substrate do you have? That makes a huge difference in the choice of fertilizer to use. For the sake of simplicity, seachem Equilibrium + seachem flourish is all your need.


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## user_error (Aug 15, 2010)

i'm looking to upgrade the hood/light in my 20gallon as well, it's a 17w so only 0.85 watts per gallon...

i'd like something around 40-50 watts, max 60. not sure what to pick yet but if anyone knows something? i see some 65 watt but i also hear if you go with t5 bulb you don't need as much watts because it's a more efficient light? any advice post it here !


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Hagen GLO T5 is a simple ready to use retrofit kit. all you need is a hood and or reflector. They come in 2x 24 watt kit. 

I suggest 2 Giesemann midday bulb or if you want to go cheaper, GE HO T5 6500K 24". Definitely add CO2 if you are using 2x 24 watt HO T5 over 20 gallon.

I have 3x 54 watt HO T5 6500k over a 75gallon. They have been running for over 3 years.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

I've got a 55 gal, with quite a few plants. I'm just getting into them like you. I use Excel instead of the expensive CO2 system and it seems work quite well, you just pour in a capful every day. Between that and the Flourish Comprehensive. That should at least get you started out pretty well. Good Luck! Post some pics for us to see!


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## David J (May 2, 2010)

Planted tanks are addictive; be warned!
I use 4* 55W fluorescents (good price from Canadian aquatics on this site) with two on all day and the other two on for just a few hours in the middle of the day. My tank is 75 gallons and I change 15 gallons a week, adding 10 mL of both Flourish and Flourish excel and one Indian almond leaf. I also add root tab fertilizer once in a while. I have a variety of "easy" and "medium" plants that have done well (mostly by trial and error) planted in a black substrate (Name I can't remember right now) which I do not clean so it has a great deal of organic matter built up over the years.
Check out a couple of pictures here: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/members/david-j-673/albums/75-gallon-42/


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

Hi EDGE

thanx for the message
I just have regular gravel. I think it's the most common substrate I've seen. I was thinking to get sand in near future. Would that be a better option?
And I already have seachem equilibrium and I will p/u the seachem flourish on my way today. I will have to check into the cost of getting new lighting and see what I can do about that. 
Thanx again

Viera


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Personally, I prefer gravel over sand. There is less compaction so the roots have an easier time rooting.


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

*nice underwater jungle*

Wow, thanx for the link. That's a very nice setup you have there.



David J said:


> Planted tanks are addictive; be warned!
> I use 4* 55W fluorescents (good price from Canadian aquatics on this site) with two on all day and the other two on for just a few hours in the middle of the day. My tank is 75 gallons and I change 15 gallons a week, adding 10 mL of both Flourish and Flourish excel and one Indian almond leaf. I also add root tab fertilizer once in a while. I have a variety of "easy" and "medium" plants that have done well (mostly by trial and error) planted in a black substrate (Name I can't remember right now) which I do not clean so it has a great deal of organic matter built up over the years.
> Check out a couple of pictures here: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/members/david-j-673/albums/75-gallon-42/


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

So yesterday I went and bought new coralife light fixture with 65W bulb, seachem fertilizer and excel. I guess I just have to see what happens now with my plants. I just downloaded the Seachem daily dose calculator to keep my plants properly fertilized. I will be adding manzanita wood piece after I'll receive my moss and java and after that I will take a picture and try to post it here for you. And then again maybe 30days later to see my (hopefully) progress. Thanx again to everybody who helped.

Viera


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

So I finally set up my aquarium with plants. I had to wait untill my manzanita soaked + I needed to get some more plants. After about 4 hours of work and arranging, here is the result. I will try to post updated pictures in few weeks to see my (hopefully positive) progress. Thanx everyone for helping anyway you could.


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## user_error (Aug 15, 2010)

looking good rr


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

*fertilizers......the fun part*

Now it's the fun part - fertilizers. I have to admit, I've never been so confused in my life! I've been reading sticky Intro to EI over and over + info on fertilizers on Aquaflora page + lots of other forum tips and I still don't know how I should use the Macro Nutrient mix.
If I'm following this:
_10-20 Gallons (38-76 litres) 
10ml solution or 1/8 tsp KNO3 3x a week 
5ml solution or 1/32 tsp KH2PO4 3x a week 
2ml solution or 1/32 tsp K2SO4 3x a week 
2ml or 1/32 tsp traces 3x a week _ then do I still need to get Macro Nutrient mix on top of that or I get enough macros from first 3 ferts? Also I keep reading everywhere that iron helps bring red in plants, but then I found this comment from aquaflora

_Question: "The iron would assist in bringing out the red in certain plants correct?

Yes and no, if you are lacking iron, then yes, but, and there is much discussion on this one, it could also be that some plants for some reason, when all of the nutrients are always available to them (the idea behind the EI method) will either not intake the iron, or don't turn red for a different reason (perhaps the expert Plantbrain can answer this one exactly). I have seen discussion that if you decrees the PPM of the nitrates it will help solve this situation. "_
Anybody can explain this to me (again plese)? I know, it must be frustrating for you all "experts" out there to keep repeating things to us "newbies" before we can finally get it. 
Thank you, much appreciated it!


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Redness is dependent on plant. Some plant color up from low nitrate level and not high Iron level.

Ludwigia repens 'Rubin' is naturally red bias. High iron and high light usually helps make it more red.

From what I remember long ago, which I haven't played around with with in a few years, Limnophila aromatica colored up from low nitrate level, as did Ludwigia inclinata var verticillata 'cuba'.

Iron helps green up the plant near the new growth. If you noticed the tips are pale while or light yellow/green, or chlorosis, most likely, your plant is low in iron.

Here is a link to soil based grown deficiency. Information mostly is the same between terrestrial and aquatic plants.. You will just noticed that the deficiency is more rapid and pronounced in aquatic system because there is very little CEC (cation exchange capacity) from inert growing media.

Action Mode, Deficiency & Toxicity of the 17 Essential Nutrients

If some red plants red up from increased in iron while other plants you noticed is red in people's photo, but not red in your tank, then those plant are most likely coloring up not from iron, but from low nitrate level.

Here is a photo of Limnophila aromatica growing in Flourite/onyx mixed from 6 years ago.


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanx for the info and cool link. I've bookmarked it right away


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Here is a little more information.

The nutrient ratio in soil base fertilizer is

N - P2O5 - K2O usually

The nutrient ratio in aquarium is

NO3 - PO4 - K

They have a different concentration (ppm) of 

N-P-K in general because they are based on molecular weight. Rarely will you come across a formula ratio based on N-P-K. Something to do with fertilizer act requiring fertilizer companies to used P2O5 and K2O to represent the P and K concentration.

End result is there is more N per pound in soil fertilizer formula ratio and more K in aquarium plant ratio, if we convert them to the same chemical element N - P - K.


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

*question abou PPS-Pro*

I found the info on PPS-Pro and formula for Macro and Micro solutions. I would like to dose my plants with nutrients but I'm worried that it may be too much for fish. This seems pretty mild and effective. The only thing is, that I have only 20G tank and 1L solution will last me for over a year! 
Not sure if it is a good thing to keep it mixed that long even if kept in the fridge. Does anybody know if I can cut it in half (or even less)? I know sometimes it does not work same way when you do that (some baking recipes don't work, it's seems to be all about chemistry in volume) 
Also, do I measure dry ingredients first and then add water up to 1L or still add 1L on top of that or do I measure 1L of water and then I add the ingredients? It may seem like a silly question, but I'm not sure what is best and I could not find answer for that one.

_Macro Solution
In 1 liter bottle:
59 grams K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate)
65 grams KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate)
6 grams KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate)
41 grams MgSO4 (Magnesium Sulfate)
Fill with distilled water and shake well. Let sit overnight.

Micro Solution
In 1 liter bottle:
80 grams of CSM+B or equivalent trace element mix
Fill with distilled water and shake well. Let sit overnight.

How do I dose PPS-Pro solutions?
Dose 1 ml of each solution per ten gallons of tank size. Dose prior to lights turning on._

also, anybody has a good tip about iron dosing? I was wondering if it is better to dose regularly or to test and then dose? I'm thinking first option may be better, so the plants won't run out and me trying to constantly catch up.
Thanx


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Add all the dry ingredients in the empty 1L bottle, then add 1L of water to make the solution.

If you have a way to distilled / disinfect the water before using, that would be the best. Less chance of mold growing in the solution. I mixed enough for 1 week so I don't have to deal with distilled water. I dose more than PPS concentration but less than EI. 

Iron usually doesnt last long enough in the tank for infrequent dosing and not very easy to test. Unless you have a high % DTPA cheleted iron as the main source of iron in the micro nutrient mixed, chances are, whatever the plants didn't used would have precipitated out of water column. EDTA works at up to 6 pH. DTPA is up to 7 pH. 

I used plant prod micro nutrients and would notice the iron deficiency pretty fast if my water sits at around 6.5 pH and I haven't added any micro nutrients in the last few days.

plant prod is - 5% EDTA and 2% DTPA iron


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

Hi, just to keep you up to date. My plants are doing great, some of them growing pretty fast. I will post photo soon. I'm still reading a lot about fertilizing and I found this helpful list about nutrient deficiency.

*Nutrient Deficiency Chart for Plants*

*Nitrogen:*
Leaves to show effects first: Old
Entire plant turns yellow green, and the older leaves become more yellowish than the younger.
Older leaves do not die unless deficiency is extreme.

*Phosphorus:*
Leaves to show effects first: Old
Plant stops growing and becomes darker green or stays green. 
Some species may become purple with excess anthocyanin pigments building up. 
Other species do not produce excess anthocyanins and just stay green and small.
Premature leaf drop-off.
Similar to nitrogen deficiency.

*calcium:*
Leaves to show effects first: New
Mild deficiency: Smaller, distorted new leaf growth. Reduced leaf tissue, with the central vein persisting.
Leaves often cupped, rather than flat
Moderate deficiency: Often sudden bends or twisting of leaf, which is now much reduced in size.
White streaks or white edges in new growth. Roots are stubby and twisted. Root tips may die.
Leaves of Vallisneria are strongly crinkled as though they have tried to grow and got jammed in a small space.
Severe deficiency: New growth almost entirely white. Leaves are tiny deformed stumps. Growing points for both shoot and root die.
Damage and die off growing points.
Yellowish leaf edges.

*magnesium:*
Leaves to show effects first: Old
Indicots: Yellowing of older leaves that starts from the edges inwards. The midrib may remain
green while the edges are yellowed or whitish and dying (I don't know what this deficiency looks like in monocots like Vallisneria, but it should involve death of the older leaves.)
Yellow spots.

*Potassium:*
Leaves to show effects first: Old
Small dead areas appear in older leaves. These can start like little pinpoints and grow. In some species, like Ceratopteris, the older leaves stay green while the little dead spots grow. The new leaves are reduced in size and leaf area, looking a bit 'singed'. In other species the older leaves can turn yellow before they die, but they do not have green persisting along the major veins as in magnesium deficiency.
Yellow areas, then withering of leave edges and tips.

*Sulfur:*
Leaves to show effects first: New
Similar to nitrogen deficiency

*Iron:*
Leaves to show effects first: New
Reduced chlorophyll in new growth. Leaves and stem are about the same shade. Growing tips of Ceratophyllum become pinkish and then white. Egeria densa tips become greenish yellow to yellow with the leaves small and clasped close to the stem. The new leaves of swords are smaller with patches or broad streaks extending lengthwise that are more pale than the rest of the leaf (in mild deficiency). In more severe deficiency in most plants chlorophyll is lacking completely in the new growth which soon dies.
Leaves Turn Yellow.
Greenish nerves enclosing yellow leaf tissue.
First seen in fast growing plants.

*Manganese:*
Dead yellowish tissue between leaf nerves.

*Copper:*
Dead leaf tips and withered edges.

*Zinc:*
Leaves to show effects first: Old
Yellowish areas between nerves, Starting at leaf tip and edges.

*Boron:*
Leaves to show effects first: New
Very similar to calcium deficiency. New growth is distorted and smaller, and then the growing tips of both roots and shoots die. In mild deficiency in Crypts, the leaves are cupped and the roots are shorter and distorted.
Dead shoot tips, new side shoots also die.

*Molybdenum:*
Leaves to show effects first: Old
Yellow spots between leaf nerves, then brownish areas along edges. 
Inhibited flowering


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

so here are the photos

before









now (17 days later)


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

looking good, keep us posted

If you want the tank to fill in a bit faster, prune the stems in the back and replant them. roughly 2-4" stub would be fine as long as the old rooted portion are not shaded


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

I have prune couple of stems of hygro already and replanted them, but I like it to grow little higher to cover the back somewhat. I'll keep you posted.


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