# Please help before i lose all my fish- lots of pics



## splat (Nov 17, 2010)

ok..might be a bit windy but i'll give quick history first.

it was stocked with 1 betta, 9 white clouds, 12 threadfin rainbowfish, 4 praecox rainbowfish, 6 java khulis, 6 khulis, 4 panda cories, 2 bristlenose plecos and about 6 amano shrimp.

previously i had 7 threadfin rainbowfish and 2 preacox in my 30 gallon. i set-up my 55 gallon about 4 months ago and used some of the filter floss from my 30 gallon to seed the filter. i put in 12 white cloud minnows to help it keep cycled. about 4 weeks later i put 7 new threadfins and 2 praecox. 4 weeks after that i transferred all my fish from my 30 gallon over to my 55 gallon, along with the 30 gallon filter (a fluval 305). i do weekly water changes of 20%. it ran without problems until 1 week ago when some of my threadfins from the 30 gallon got ick. because of the shrimp i had a hard time finding ick cure and it was suggested that 'Kordon Ich Attack' would work. i followed the directions and about 4 days after starting the treatment the ich seemed to be going away but the sick threadfins were hanging out at the top of the tank gasping for breath, some of them had whitish colour on their heads. once they started gasping at the top they would only last overnight before they died. i could not find an answer as to what was going on. i have lost all the praecox and 8 threadfins. my betta became listless and his fins curled. this morning i noticed he had red streaks on his body and fins. i went out to look for antibiotics and when i got home he was dead. all my other fish are fine and swim and eat. what is going on? i'm afraid when the threadfin are all dead my other fish will start to get sick.

i took the gill cover off my betta and noticed he had no gills?! is this normal for a betta. i did not check the threadfins. what can i do? i have stopped the kordon treatment and do 40% water change everyday/other day when i am able.

i have a pic of the betta without his gill cover and the threadfin with the whitish stuff on their head.


































my water parameters
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20-40
GH 60 ppm
KH 40 ppm
pH 7.6 ish

tap water
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
phosphate 0


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

Well my first reaction when ANYTHING goes wrong in any of my tanks is to dose pure Tea Tree oil. You find it in Melafix, but I find this takes all the guesswork out of the antibiotics, as tea tree oil is simply antimicrobial. Try 25 drops a day for 3 days with 25% water changes daily, afterwards, keep dosing 10 drops. If you decide this works, you can stop treatment when all symptoms disappear. I have never had tea tree oil counteract anything else, so it is at least a good start. 

Looks like infection to me, but I dont know what kind. 
I once had a mystery disease destroy most of my tank, and the tea tree oil was the answer.


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## kelly528 (Apr 21, 2010)

Is the white stuff fuzzy? It looks like your fish caught an external bacterial infection (their immune systems may have been weakened by the ich and the Kordon), which ate up your betta's gills and then went septic. Another possibility is that the Kordon killed your biofilter, causing an ammonia spike which burned your fish (explains the infected gills on your betta) and then the burns got infected. To test this theory you can check your ammonia.

Tea tree oil will is an antiseptic (and therefore will sterilize wounds) but it's not an antibiotic, which is what you need. I would start treating with broad spectrum gram negative and gam positive antibiotics, such and a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn 2.


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## splat (Nov 17, 2010)

no the white stuff wasn't fuzzy at all


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Personally, if I see any fungus or fin rot, I would do what Katienaha suggest. I add Melafix (tea tree oil) to the tank right after a water change

I mixed tea tree oil as 2.5 ml to 250 ml of water. 1 to 100 ratio and use the standard melafix dosing level. 5 ml to 10 gallon for 7 days straight. I have been using melafix recently to new fish as a precautionary measure.. 3 days of melafix. 

tea tree oil, prazipro and ich-x are good to have around as an standby medication. fungus, ich and worms are the more common ones I come across now a days at the places I get fish.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

don't bettas have a labyrinth instead of gills and thats why they breathe from the surface?


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

mferko - they have both. the labyrinth doesnt totally support the fish though. if the gills rotted and became infected, the infection would have killed the fish eventually.


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## splat (Nov 17, 2010)

gah..i got primafix..not melafix. is this good? i know the ingredients are different.

and why are the staff at LFS so ridiculous?! i was explaining my situation and she asked often you do water change? i said 40% ever other day. she said don't do more than 20%. (is this valid?) then she asked what my nitrAtes were and i said between 10-20. well that's WAY too high! she said the vial should be clear.
ug..really?! i should have 0 nitrates..she said YUP
*headdesk*


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Water change is dependent on the tank setup. 

i.e. discus grower do 100% water change on a daily basis to keep water pristine.

Natural planted tank with soil usually has little to no water change. and then there is everything in between.

I am not sure on the exact difference of pimafix. But I have pimafix as well in case there is a huge outbreak of problems. I usually stick to melafix because I can easily make the solution with tea tree oil. Both are anti fungal/bacterial.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

The betta's condition looks like a bad bacterial infection to me. In the early stages I'd try an all purpose medication, like Jungle Lifeguard. But with the red streaks on the fins and gills and other fish succumbing, I'd probably opt for something potent, like Triple Sulfa. 

Hopefully the water changes are helping the other fish. I'm very sorry that you lost your betta and threadfins.


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## Oscar2121 (Dec 21, 2010)

i went through the exact same thing my nitrates and nitrites spiked to 10-20 ppm and i lost a tinfoil barb, luckily i tested the water and put this oscars in a quarenteen tank right away.....sounds like you have "new tank syndrome" You should do 100% water change clean all ornaments and try not to disturb the plants too much..... but the problem lies in the water get new water and start the cycle over.


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## splat (Nov 17, 2010)

thanks everyone. i really hate losing fish and i have never had a problem like this before. i have had tanks got 4 years.
what would have caused new tank syndrome 5 months later?? and with a seeded filter?

is triple sulfa safe for shrimp?


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## davej (Apr 28, 2010)

The whiteish appearance in the pics makes me think possibly columnaris. The appearance of the beta with the reddening in his fins kind of supports that in my mind the picture of the rainbow also looks like that to me. I am no vet, but have dealt with an outbreak in the past. I used Furan2 from aquarium pharmaceuticals which treats gram negative bacteria. It took care of mine with a four day treatment. Do a little research on it and see if you agree. It can be a nasty bacteria and wipe out a whole tank in short order. It quite often starts out like a mouth fungus and spreads from there, or across the back of the fish giving it a common name of "saddleback disease". If it is columnaris it is a gram negative bacteria.
The previous suggestion of the two Maracyn antibiotics is also an effective overall treatment for bacterial infections covering both gram negative as well as gram positive.
Good luck

P.s. The Furan2 is safe with shrimp. I treated my tank when there were cherries in there with no I'll effect on them


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks, Davej, for letting us know that Furan 2 doesn't affect shrimp.


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## splat (Nov 17, 2010)

so should i get the maracyn in case it's not columnaris? it's shrimp safe? the betta had no white film..he just starting hiding and not eating and literally 2 days later had the red streaks and died a few hours after that


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