# 72G Bowfront Discus Tank!



## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Hello Everyone!

This is my first ever tank journal! I'm hoping to keep track of things and post my successes and failure to share and learn more about the hobby!

BTW, I already screwed up as I didn't take any pics while setting it up.. totally forgot out of excitement... but hopefully I'll remember as I make changes in the future.

So Exams just ended and I was itching to setup my new tank that I had picked up a couple of weeks ago and transfer things over from my old tank. Anyways, decided to do that last night and finished about 6 in the morning and have been admiring it since then...lol!!

So Here is the deal:

I plan on keeping Discus now, so I've got a 72 bow front with two BNPs and 2 Demasoni barbs. I had 12 Demasoni barbs in there but thanks to an Ich break out and my late reaction I lost 10 of them together with 10 clown loaches. Yep... It hurts . It sucks but I learned a valuable lesson before buying any discus 

Tech Specs:

72 Gallon Tank
PFS substrate
Fluval 404 Canister - Will Switch over to Eheim Pro 3 - 2075 Canister or maybe keep both.
Eheim 300WATT heater - Will Switch over to Hydor inline 300W for a cleaner look.
Temp at 82F right now - will it be okay for Discus, I've read different things about it... so kinda confused right now.. 
PH 6.8
No background yet... I'll probably get a plain black back drop.

The Plan:

6 Discus (domestics but don't know what strains) I hope April is getting some nice ones in soon!!

15 Rummynose Tetras or maybe cardinals and rummys

5 Demasoni Barbs

2 BNPs and one L134 Leapord Pleco

Maybe a GBR or two if the Bio load permits...

Maintenance:

I plan on being punctual with 25% water changes every 3 days. I'm thinking I'll be okay with this plan because I'm not buying Juvi Discus... at least 4" or so.

I'm also planning on adding some hardy low light plants that can survive in PFS.

So thats it for now! Please let me know what you guys think! Its my first effort 
to keep a Journal of my tank. I hope to keep up with this journal and be successful in Discus keeping.

I'm adding some pics for you guys to look at... The water is not clean yet, there was some crap stuck in the filter pipes that came out when I turned it on so I have to clean that.. Other than that I think things are looking alright!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

cant wait to see the progression! keep the updates coming, sorry to hear about losing all those fish but better now than when youve got the discus in there!


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks good,

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.274881,-122.835400


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

monkE said:


> cant wait to see the progression! keep the updates coming, sorry to hear about losing all those fish but better now than when youve got the discus in there!


Yeah thats what I thought! lol.. I hope I don't have to suffer like that in the future. Fingers crossed!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

April said:


> Looks good,


Thanks April! now this tanks needs good quality discus from you


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Nice new project Zee. Already to discus? 
look forward to seeing the tank evolve.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

That's going to be a very sweet-looking discus tank.

Just looking at your planned stocking list, my thought was that if you want to play it really safe at first with your new discus, your proposed bio-load might just be a tad heavy.
Especially with 10 Demasoni barbs which can grow quite large. I've seen them at approx. 4" long.
In addition, and while I haven't kept them myself, I do know they are very active, can be nippers, and I believe they would tend to startle and stress the discus.

The BNPs and GBRs are fine, but I don't know about the L134 Pleco.

Just trying to help you get off on the right foot, so I would suggest you consider not adding the Barbs - and that way your load should be just fine too.

Will look forward to seeing the finished product.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

jobber604 said:


> Nice new project Zee. Already to discus?
> look forward to seeing the tank evolve.


Thanks Ming!! Yeah, I've been wanting to keep discus for a while now, just didn't have the time. School is almost over and my last term is very light in terms of courses so I thought I might as well start now! I saw some updates on your tank, looks really nice!! I hope I can get somewhere near there!!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The L134 would fit in there diet and temp wise, but remember that plecos also generate a high bioload, but so even though you don't see them very often, you're still putting quite a load of fish in there. Maybe not the same as a discus, but certainly more so than a ram.

I'm with Paul in that you want to think about the bioload initially with the barbs.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

discuspaul said:


> That's going to be a very sweet-looking discus tank.
> 
> Just looking at your planned stocking list, my thought was that if you want to play it really safe at first with your new discus, your proposed bio-load might just be a tad heavy.
> Especially with 10 Demasoni barbs which can grow quite large. I've seen them at approx. 4" long.
> ...


Thanks for the advice discuspaul!! I really appreciate it.

I dont' know about he demasonis being fin nippers, I should check into that... and you're right they do get pretty big. Do you think I could get away with maybe 5 of these guys? That'll reduce the bioload a little bit. For their behaviour, I know they are very fast swimmers and attack the food like pigs, but I read somewhere on SD that people have kept them successfully with discus. I'll do a little more research on them.

For L134, are you suggesting that I shouldn't keep it or you just don't know.. just want to make sure!

I think I saw the pics of your tank on some thread. I wanted to ask what kind of plants you have in there. I want to keep some plants in my tank that'll able to grow in PFS substrate.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> The L134 would fit in there diet and temp wise, but remember that plecos also generate a high bioload, but so even though you don't see them very often, you're still putting quite a load of fish in there. Maybe not the same as a discus, but certainly more so than a ram.
> 
> I'm with Paul in that you want to think about the bioload initially with the barbs.


I know what you mean. I have white PFS and I see bits of poop all over the substrate! Only if we could train the plecos to poop in a designated spot! :lol:

Gray, what do you think about the stock list now? You think this list will be okay for the bio load?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Will you be introducing them all at once? I wouldn't worry about the tetras, they're low bioload.

If you introduce the barbs first and the discus last you should not have a problem with a big bioload jump, as long as you're diligent about testing for ammonia and doing water changes.

As for the PFS, I'm growing crypts, Ludwigia, and Aponogeton species in the Estes sand and of course lots of moss and Anubias. I do insert root tabs in and dose Metricide and Equilibrium and a bit of phosphates though, as I change 60+% of the water every other day.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

I would believe that some discus-keepers have in fact kept Demasonis with discus, but I suspect most of these people would be well-experienced in keeping discus, who know what to watch out for & how to deal with it.
If you're really bent of keeping Demasonis in your tank, I'd suggest you get a few months under your belt first, getting comfortable with discus-keeping, then later on add some Demasonis - but I still think it could be asking for trouble. I wouldn't do it myself.
And you're certainly correct about them being aggressive eaters - they could out-compete the discus for food - and that wouldn't be good.

As for the L134, Gary's the expert on Plecos and he has rightly indicated they would significantly add to the bio-load. Just watch your total numbers - make it easier on yourself by starting out with your discus project with a lighter bio-load. You're already planning to include the BNP's.

My tank is low-tech with PFS. I use root tabs in the sand, along with regular twice-weekly dosing of Excel and liquid &/or dry ferts in the water column.
Works well for me, and readily grows many plants quite well, despite the higher temp.
I find that Amazon Swords do very well, and I also have Hygros, which grow like weeds and need regular trimming - & Ludwigia, Crypts, Anubias, Java Fern, Red & Tiger Lotuses.
I've tried several others as well over the time, with varying degrees of success - like Vals, Sag, Aponogetons, Rotala, Bacopa. Some do ok, some don't - 
The use of Excel tends to sometimes melt Vals & Sags, while plants like Aponogeton don't seem to fare well for very long at the higher temps.
Hope this helps.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Will you be introducing them all at once? I wouldn't worry about the tetras, they're low bioload.
> 
> If you introduce the barbs first and the discus last you should not have a problem with a big bioload jump, as long as you're diligent about testing for ammonia and doing water changes.
> 
> As for the PFS, I'm growing crypts, Ludwigia, and Aponogeton species in the Estes sand and of course lots of moss and Anubias. I do insert root tabs in and dose Metricide and Equilibrium and a bit of phosphates though, as I change 60+% of the water every other day.


I'll be introducing then slowly. I don't want to shock the system. I think I'm pretty good with checking things and making sure the water parameters are in line. I plan on doing daily 25% water changes at least for the first couple of weeks of adding all the new fish just to make sure I get them all settled in properly. After that I'll cut it down a little bit. these new water meters are a pain!

Thanks for the list of the plants! I'll look into them and see which ones I want to keep. I'll keep minimal number of plants with root tabs to keep them thriving!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

discuspaul said:


> I would believe that some discus-keepers have in fact kept Demasonis with discus, but I suspect most of these people would be well-experienced in keeping discus, who know what to watch out for & how to deal with it.
> If you're really bent of keeping Demasonis in your tank, I'd suggest you get a few months under your belt first, getting comfortable with discus-keeping, then later on add some Demasonis - but I still think it could be asking for trouble. I wouldn't do it myself.
> And you're certainly correct about them being aggressive eaters - they could out-compete the discus for food - and that wouldn't be good.
> 
> ...


Hmm, I think I'll not add anymore Demasonis to the tank then. I don't want to risk it and lose more fish! I'll probably keep the two that I have for now and if I see that they're causing trouble then I'll take them out as well.

thanks for the info on plants. I want to keep minimal amount of plants in there, only for aesthetic reasons! They give a nice look to an aquarium!

So I guess for now,

My stock list comprises of

6 Discus
15 rummy nose
2 BNP
1 L134

I think this is not that much of a heavy bio load.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

No, it's not a heavy load, and should be just fine for you to start off your discus-keeping project.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Post Boxing Day Update:

So I went shopping yesterday and got myself some new equipment and fish !

There they are in their bags waiting to be transferred!


























And the acclimation starts! Fish waiting to be transferred in the tank!!


































So the Cardinals, cory cats and GBRs make it to the quarantine tank!










There they are finally in the tank and exploring their temporary home!!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

So you got some discus from April?


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Here are the big guys in their bags waiting to be transferred in the tank!


































Finally they're home! Beautiful fish!!! thanks to April for awesome quality fish!! 
I picked up 9 small 3" discus.

4 turqs, 4 Blue Diamonds and 1 Red Melon

These pictures were taken as they were transferred in bag by bag. I'll take a few more pics after today's water change and post them soon!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Here is another purchase I made yesterday that'll become part of the tank as soon as I find time to set it up.


















Now the big Eheim Pro3 - 2075. Need to clean it and set it up!!!


















Thats all for now.... time to do a water change in the quarantine tank and the display tank!! Looking forward to your comments, suggestions and ideas!!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> So you got some discus from April?


YEP!!!! 

I'm very happy and very excited to have these guys!! They are gorgeous and colours are showing well already!!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Good looking fish.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Thank you, any idea how I can control the size of my pics... they are a little too big.. lol!! 

I'm uploading them on photo bucket and then sourcing them from there...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

You're going to love that 2075, although the flow rate from the 2075 is probably too high for the 9w Coralife. I'm using a 9w coralife with a Fluval 2+ and a 2075 in my 46 gallon bow and it's a great combo. I'm also using the Hydor 300.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

zhasan said:


> Thank you, any idea how I can control the size of my pics... they are a little too big.. lol!!
> 
> I'm uploading them on photo bucket and then sourcing them from there...


Nah, the size is fine. But yeah, I used to use photobucket and didn't know how to control the size either. Now I use Picasa and it allow me to choose the size posted.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Your tank is a huge inspiration for me! If the flow from 2075 is too high... do you recommend I hook the UV to my fluval 404? because if the flow is too high then I guess the efficiency of the UV will decrease which kills the purpose of having the unit!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

How do I change the title of the thread?? I want to take the '(Soon)' out of it!!


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## MELLO (Apr 21, 2010)

zhasan said:


> How do I change the title of the thread?? I want to take the '(Soon)' out of it!!


Z! Go to Edit then click "Advance".


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

MELLO said:


> Z! Go to Edit then click "Advance".


Thanks!! How are the cardinals doing? Mine are colouring up really slow!


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Nice new additions to your tank...pandas and all  Treated yourself very well this boxing day. Keep the pics coming. Those discus colouring up very nice.


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## MELLO (Apr 21, 2010)

zhasan said:


> Thanks!! How are the cardinals doing? Mine are colouring up really slow!


Mine are good colored right up as soon as I dropped them.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

jobber604 said:


> Nice new additions to your tank...pandas and all  Treated yourself very well this boxing day. Keep the pics coming. Those discus colouring up very nice.


Thanks Ming! Those Pandas are too cute to pass up! been wanting them for a long time but I waited for the right time! I really hoping to grow these discus well and have a good experience doing so!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

MELLO said:


> Mine are good colored right up as soon as I dropped them.


Nice! I hope mine get their act together fast! lol..


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

zhasan said:


> Your tank is a huge inspiration for me! If the flow from 2075 is too high... do you recommend I hook the UV to my fluval 404? because if the flow is too high then I guess the efficiency of the UV will decrease which kills the purpose of having the unit!


According to this site, (American Aquarium Products), for bacteria sterilization, the flow rate should be 20 - 25 gph per watt, so for a 9 w unit, you should be using a flow rate of no more than 225 gph.

According to this google docs (that is referenced in plantedtank.net): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqMzs8Fk8amOdFViQWJ3TERvWW8xbTBEUkZ0ekRQblE&hl=en#gid=0,
the 2075 does 290 gph which is almost 1/3 too fast. I think it would be wise to use something else, like a maxijet 400 to run the UV. That's what I did for a while, until I got used the 2+. I find the prefiltering helpful too and the internal filter is easy to use. Maybe something like this: Fluval U2 Underwater Filter : Internal Filters


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Thats great information! I think I should have a similar filter lying around in the boxes of extra equipment! The only issue is that I don't have a sump, so I'll have to hang it all in the tank.. which is something I'm not really looking forward to. 

I have a fluval 304 that I can possibly hook up the UV to. I checked the flow rate on that and its rated for 260GPH, I'm wondering if i'd be able to get away with that or maybe install a valve in it and just close it a notch or two to reduce the flow.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

A 304 should be ok after the hydraulic head loss of having the pump below the tank, but the Fluval has a ribbed hose, so won't attach properly without you swapping out the hose first...


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Hmm.. I'll have to figure something out with that! 

I'm wondering about feeding the discus. I've been feeding them Hikari frozen blood worm since I put them in there... I tried feeding them a little bit of beef heart last night but that did not work and when I put in some flake food that did not work either! 

I'm wondering if I'm feeding them bloodworm (5-6 cubes a day) is that good for them or could that have a negative impact on their health. I just noticed that they go crazy with waste after I feed them! They all seem to be happy and doing well but I don't want to keep on feeding expensive blood worms on a daily basis if I don't have to!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Swapping the hose shouldn't be that big a deal, but I've never done it. I'm done with my Fluvals. I just ordered a 2213 to replace my 204 and will be selling it as soon as the 2213 is ready.

As for the feeding, I'm not too sure, but since discus need high protein diets, I think you should be fine. I feed mine mostly blackworm (live, frozen and freeze dried). I do also feed them pellets (NLS Thera A and Dainichi XL Pro). I don't feed my discus any beefheart as my personal belief is not to feed animal protein to my fish, but that's just a personal thing. I'm sure Paul, April, Shelley, Mello or one of the other discus experts will drop in soon to discuss this with you.


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## MELLO (Apr 21, 2010)

Zee starve them for a day or two. Put the heat up to atleast 88-90 until they get use to the food you want them to take. Sometimes it take days or weeks for them to accept new food. Always give it to them on your first feeding. Siphon the food if they dont take it and just keep feeding them the same food until they finally accept it. 
Its good for discus to have varieties of food on their diet. I use to feed only bloodworms when I first started keeping discus. It could get very expensive as they can eat a lot of worms and wont accept any flake or any dry food that I feed them. You have to be tough though don't give in until they take the food your introducing to them. I starve mine as long as two weeks and now they all eat anything I throw at them. Also if you want to feed them bloodworms give it to them last.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Hmm, I should experiment with the feeding then. I still have to buy the pellets n stuff... I don't have any of these pallets. the only thing I have at home is beef heart, brine shrimp cubes and a TON of blood worm cubes. The temperature is up at 29 celcius since day one.

They all seem to be eating well, except for one who has made a terracotta pot his home and doesn't come out of there.. I'm thinking of moving the pot out so he comes out and sees the food?!?

Now to update you folks on the progress so far....

I've been doing 25% water changes daily so far... Parameters have been constant and in bounds! Feeding them 4-5 times daily... ofcourse blood worms only!

BNP sucking away at the glass!!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)




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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Thats all for the Discus tank now!

On the other hand in my quarantine tank i've had a loss of some cardinals... they didn't die but I think they somehow went to the other side of the divider and became an expensive snack for my convict cichlids .

I've had them all in the quarantine tank since boxing day, I'm wondering how long I should keep them in there... They all seem to be very active and eating well with no signs of stress or decease.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Seems like your off to a good start! Nice group of domestics,keep feeding a varied diet,keep things consistant and dont fiddle to much with the setup, and look after your maintaince routine and in no time these guys will flourish and get bigger.Thats one healthy looking BNP quite the full tummy there! Keep the updates coming, and thanks for sharing!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Luke78 said:


> Seems like your off to a good start! Nice group of domestics,keep feeding a varied diet,keep things consistant and dont fiddle to much with the setup, and look after your maintaince routine and in no time these guys will flourish and get bigger.Thats one healthy looking BNP quite the full tummy there! Keep the updates coming, and thanks for sharing!


Thanks Luke! I did a little big of changing around with the wood the other day and these guys didn't respond very well to it so yeah I'm not planning to change things around at all now until they grow up! Yeah the BNP goes around sucking at everything!!

I'll be trying to feed them the Beefheart mixture made by you!! Hopefully that shines their colour and helps them grow like your domestics I saw when I came to your place!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

If you're going to keep beefheart mix, keep an eye on your pleco. They tend to get bloat when fed animal proteins.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

That pleco looks ripe. Fish settling in very well already. You certainly gave them a good home.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> If you're going to keep beefheart mix, keep an eye on your pleco. They tend to get bloat when fed animal proteins.


I noticed the pleco feeding on the beef heart mixture..... I'm assuming 'bloat' is some sort of a decease for pleco? Should I feed them differently? Does this problem occur after continues feeding of animal protein or can it be bad for them right away?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

This is just something I have read from other discus keepers who have plecos. Since I don't feed beefheart, I don't have any direct experience. But bloat is a common problem in plecos which get too much protein. Their stomaches are distended. Some believe it is because the animal proteins mess up their long gut digestive systems. Plecos which are more herbivorous tend to have this problem more easily but any pleco would have problems long term with excessive animal protein I believe, as there's not designed for that much fatty proteins.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Looking good. Hopefully they will all grow and look beautiful! 
Nice tank. Lots of great equipment.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275171,-122.835452


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## jiayaw (Jun 10, 2011)

Looking great! I myself just started keeping Discus recently too... right now I have mine in a 33 gal growout tank, doing 90% daily water changes... eventually will be moving them to my 75 gallon planted when the fish get a bit bigger (around 4-5in before I move them over). 

The ones I got ranged from 2inches to 3inches in size ... maybe we can compare growth rates of our discus over time just for fun too =D

Hoping to see both our discus do well and grow to nice looking adults!


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey Zee, nice looking tank and herd of discus! I especially like the orange one.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

jiayaw said:


> Looking great! I myself just started keeping Discus recently too... right now I have mine in a 33 gal growout tank, doing 90% daily water changes... eventually will be moving them to my 75 gallon planted when the fish get a bit bigger (around 4-5in before I move them over).
> 
> The ones I got ranged from 2inches to 3inches in size ... maybe we can compare growth rates of our discus over time just for fun too =D
> 
> Hoping to see both our discus do well and grow to nice looking adults!


Thanks! Yeah I've been following your Journal! Your discus are looking great as well!! I think for fast and optimal growth you need that 90% but I just don't have the time for it, so right now I'm just sticking to at least a 25% water change on a daily basis. Its working out well, water parameters are good and the fish look healthy and active.

It'll be good to compare growth rates because It'll definitely tell how much of a difference water changes and a varied diet makes! Its been fun so far (only a week) and I hope it stays that way... I really want to see these fish grow up to 6inch plus sizes!!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Canadian_Aqua_Farm said:


> Hey Zee, nice looking tank and herd of discus! I especially like the orange one.


Thanks Rick!! He's my favourite too!!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

So a little bit of an update. I'm doing 50+ % water changes every other day now. Feeding them flake food, freeze dried black worms and ofcourse Frozen blood worms. They are all eating well and thriving.

I finally transferred my other tank mates, or whatever was left of them, after 2.5 weeks of quarantine.. couldn't wait any longer.

So out of my boxing day purchase of fish from King Eds I had, 

8 out of 15 cardinals ramining (the others became pray to the convicts I believe), 

1 out of 3 Albino Corys

2 out of 3 Panda Corys

0 out of two GBRs  really sad about that because they were getting pretty big and all of a sudden they died... 

2 out of 2 Zebra snails. 

I'm still puzzled as to why I lost so many fish... I did water changes every other day if not daily on my quarantine tank to keep the fish in best condition and get them into a good shape for the display tank. 

Anyway, so after transfer the next day I come back home to find only 5 cardinals remaining out of the 8 transferred the night before. I blame some of my discus for that because I saw them chasing a couple of the smaller cardinals. I hope the remaining 5 survive until and after I get more in there.

Whats coming: I'm picking up 20 Rummys from Pat on Saturday and they'll be going in the quarantine tank for a couple of weeks and then off to the display tank. 

thats all for now. I'll post some pics once I get a chance. Cheers!


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## The Guy (Nov 26, 2010)

you have mail


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Well those aren't good odds on the tropicals.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235388,-123.185205


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey Zee, am I reading correct that you have convicts in the QT tank? They may be picking off more than just the cardinals. Stuff like GBR's are really passive and unable to defend themselves against aggressive species.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Good possibility. Don't put them in with the discus.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235403,-123.185087


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

April said:


> Well those aren't good odds on the tropicals.
> 
> ---
> I am here: Google Maps


Tell me about it! 



Canadian_Aqua_Farm said:


> Hey Zee, am I reading correct that you have convicts in the QT tank? They may be picking off more than just the cardinals. Stuff like GBR's are really passive and unable to defend themselves against aggressive species.


Rick, Yes the convicts are in the QT tank but there is a divider. The cardinals that became pray of the convicts somehow made it through the divider. The GBRs were the biggest fish on the other side of the divider and they were eating well too.... Its beyond me why they died.



April said:


> Good possibility. Don't put them in with the discus.
> 
> ---
> I am here: Google Maps


Yeah, Convicts are only staying in the QT tank. I only moved the cardinals and cores in the discus tank.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

*Jan 29, 2012*

Hi fellas! Here is a long overdue update.

A few things happened over the past couple of weeks.

I lost 1 discus for unknown reason. I have been checking my water parameters and doing water changes constantly but still one fish died... Can't think of what might have happened.

Others seemed to be doing well until I noticed the other two turning very dark yesterday. Can't think of what might be the cause of that... I did a 90% water change the other day as well. I'll be doing another 50% water change in the next half hour to see if there is any improvement. I did notice that they become bright and very active as soon as I dump some food in the tank...

My tank has a constant 6.7 to 6.8 reading of PH since I kept all these fish in there..

Temp constant at 30C

0 Ammonia, 0 nitrates thats probably cuz I'm doing constant water changes.

 Another problem I'm facing in my tank is Algea growth.. I don't know what might be the cause of it but I'm guessing its the light bulbs... I have a 3 bulb T8 fixture on my tank and the bulbs are well over a year old. So it might be the problem, I'd like to know what the experts think.

I bought some rummy nose from Patrick! As a custom of my purchase of all small fish, I lost a few but the ones I have remaining are healthy and thriving. They'll be going in the main tank next weekend.

Now time for pics. I took these pics about a week back. It'll give you a good idea of the kind of Algae thats growing so maybe someone can suggest some ways for me to fight it.

I was thinking of buying some otos and trying that. I have a zebra snail in there and this guys has GROWN quiet a bit since I transferred him in there!

Here are the cardinals in the QT tank.


















Here are shots of all the fish and also some FTS.










































Side view of the tank


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Here is a FTS: I've since taken out the heather and hooked up the inline Hydor with my Eheim 2075.

















































these guys are too fast to catch a good picture of!!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

My apologies for poor quality of the pics as these are all taken from my iPhone. My next target is to buy a nice DSLR so I can combine the two hobbies together!!


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Looking very good - I really like it - congrats.
A suitable background to hide some of the equipment would make it that much more natural and dramatic, though.
BTW - nothing much wrong with your photography.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

discuspaul said:


> Looking very good - I really like it - congrats.
> A suitable background to hide some of the equipment would make it that much more natural and dramatic, though.
> BTW - nothing much wrong with your photography.


Thanks Paul!

I wanted to go with a black background but I think Discus start peppering if the background is too dark.. is that correct?


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Great photography job. Discus are looking healthy and the BNP's look ripe for spawning, just missing the male.
If you need some easy growing plants, give me a shout.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

zhasan said:


> Thanks Paul!
> 
> I wanted to go with a black background but I think Discus start peppering if the background is too dark.. is that correct?


Paul would know better, but peppering only occurs if you start with pigeon based discus. I have a black background on 2 sides in my cube, but I have wilds.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Paul would know better, but peppering only occurs if you start with pigeon based discus. I have a black background on 2 sides in my cube, but I have wilds.


Gary's right. Usually, PB strains are the only ones mainly affected by peppering.
But it can also occur to some degree with lighter- colored discus - shades of yellow, reddish/pinkish, light orange, or whitish shades.

In your case, khasan, you wouldn't likely be running into much of a problem with peppering by using a black or dark-blue background, due to your white sand substrate color. It's mainly a dark substrate that results in peppering - background affects it a lot less. Both a dark background and a dark substrate together are real culprits, though.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

jobber604 said:


> Great photography job. Discus are looking healthy and the BNP's look ripe for spawning, just missing the male.
> If you need some easy growing plants, give me a shout.


Thanks Ming! I would like to introduce some easy growing plants in the near future. Yeah, the BNPs are awesome but I'm afraid I can't add anymore plecos due to the bio load concern ... Now I wish I picked up the 175 gallon bow front that was on sale a short while back!



2wheelsx2 said:


> Paul would know better, but peppering only occurs if you start with pigeon based discus. I have a black background on 2 sides in my cube, but I have wilds.


Thanks Gary! Did you notice the slack in my pipes for the eheim in one of the pictures? Do you think it would have any impact on the water flow coming back to the tank. For some reason I feel that the flow is not enough for the size of the filter. Also I was wondering, if I'm correct, I read somewhere on your cube thread that you have koralias in your tank that flow the water in such a way that all the detritus goes towards the filter intake... I want to know what size koralias you're using. I don't want to introduce too much circulation and annoy the discus!



discuspaul said:


> Gary's right. Usually, PB strains are the only ones mainly affected by peppering.
> But it can also occur to some degree with lighter- colored discus - shades of yellow, reddish/pinkish, light orange, or whitish shades.
> 
> In your case, khasan, you wouldn't likely be running into much of a problem with peppering by using a black or dark-blue background, due to your white sand substrate color. It's mainly a dark substrate that results in peppering - background affects it a lot less. Both a dark background and a dark substrate together are real culprits, though.


Thanks Paul! I'll grab a black background this weekend and see how that turns out! Hopefully these guys will not take too much offence to the background


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

zhasan said:


> Thanks Ming! I would like to introduce some easy growing plants in the near future. Yeah, the BNPs are awesome but I'm afraid I can't add anymore plecos due to the bio load concern ... Now I wish I picked up the 175 gallon bow front that was on sale a short while back!
> 
> Thanks Gary! Did you notice the slack in my pipes for the eheim in one of the pictures? Do you think it would have any impact on the water flow coming back to the tank. For some reason I feel that the flow is not enough for the size of the filter. Also I was wondering, if I'm correct, I read somewhere on your cube thread that you have koralias in your tank that flow the water in such a way that all the detritus goes towards the filter intake... I want to know what size koralias you're using. I don't want to introduce too much circulation and annoy the discus!


There's a 144 bow for sale. 

As for the 2075, it's not the slack. It only flow 350 gph which is plenty of filtration for that tank. But they do leave a bit to be desired for flow, since Eheim are optimized for biological filtration and not flow. As for my cube, I'm currently running an older HK1, and newer HK Evolution 550, and 750's (yes, 3 powerheads), but I set up all my tanks for a big surface ripple for optimize gas exchange whenever possible. And I have a single Eheim 2078 on that tank so needed more flow since the cube is such a deep and wide tank. But the way I have it set up, the center is a quieter spot, and my tank is heavily scaped with wood and rocks, so there are many places where the flow is slower (just like in a real river system) for the discus to choose to move in and out of). I would say, given that you already have 2 canisters on there, a single HK 550 or 750 would be more than enough in that tank, depending on placement. I am not sure how the outflow of your filters are set up, but you'll have to optimize the setup a bit. I would try to deflect the flow of the HK750 a bit with some scaping if you're going to use it. With the 550, you should be able to just set it up any way you want.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

zhasan said:


> Now I wish I picked up the 175 gallon bow front that was on sale a short while back!


If you had, you'd probably wish you had picked up that 260G, or that 400G... 

Tank is looking good, Zee.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> There's a 144 bow for sale.
> 
> As for the 2075, it's not the slack. It only flow 350 gph which is plenty of filtration for that tank. But they do leave a bit to be desired for flow, since Eheim are optimized for biological filtration and not flow. As for my cube, I'm currently running an older HK1, and newer HK Evolution 550, and 750's (yes, 3 powerheads), but I set up all my tanks for a big surface ripple for optimize gas exchange whenever possible. And I have a single Eheim 2078 on that tank so needed more flow since the cube is such a deep and wide tank. But the way I have it set up, the center is a quieter spot, and my tank is heavily scaped with wood and rocks, so there are many places where the flow is slower (just like in a real river system) for the discus to choose to move in and out of). I would say, given that you already have 2 canisters on there, a single HK 550 or 750 would be more than enough in that tank, depending on placement. I am not sure how the outflow of your filters are set up, but you'll have to optimize the setup a bit. I would try to deflect the flow of the HK750 a bit with some scaping if you're going to use it. With the 550, you should be able to just set it up any way you want.


lol... yes I saw the 144 but now all of it is out of my bugdet because I already spent the money on my SW setup.

I have a KH750, I'm thinking I'll try setting it up and see how the fish respond to it. I have quet a bit of suface agitation already but what I'm after is trying to direct all the waste in one part of the tank where most of it can be sucked in the filter directly or atleast I can collect it easily in my waterchage rather than going through the whole sand bed. I feel it stirs up the sand too much and my fish don't appreciate that.



crazy72 said:


> If you had, you'd probably wish you had picked up that 260G, or that 400G...
> 
> Tank is looking good, Zee.


Thanks Frank! and I know... the temptation to go big is never ending. All I can say right now is that its all part of the future planning!!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

I'm wondering what is the best way for me to get rid of the algal growth I'm experienceing in my tank? Otos or more zebra snails? I got two from IPU over the boxing day.. one died and the other is getting big but i think there is too much for the poor guy to do! 

Also, whats my best bet in terms of lighting.. Where can I buy T8s and not burn my pocket? The bulbs in my lighting fixture are well over a year old... they might be contributing to the algae growth..


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

What type of algae are you experiencing? High nutrient feeding plants and bnp. 

Sent from my Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

If it's brown algae, it'll pass. If you show us a pic or describe the algae and how it occurs it might help us identify and remedy it.

As for the HK750, I think that would be ideal in a 75 gallon. Oops, forgot yours was a bow. It's 4 feet long right? Same principle.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Here is a pic of the algae growth....










its green algae i guess its a tad hair...

And yes Gary, its a 4feet long.. so 72 gallon.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

also, this algae is growing on the PFS too.. like my sand granules on the top most layer of the substrate are turning green. So when I do the water change, I kinda stir it up and the sand from the bottom comes to top and same thing happens again. 

I've already reduced the lighting from 6hrs to 2.5 hrs a day since the last 5 days. I'm waiting to see if the growth stops and some of the algae starts to disappear.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

That's BBA. What type and wattage of light do you have on that tank? Since your tank is not planted, the less light, the better.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

I have a t8 light fixture with three 32 watt tubes in it. So basically 96 watts going on for 6 hrs but since I noticed the Algea growing too much I reduced the light to only 2.5 hrs.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd remove 2 of the 3 tubes....your discus would love you for it.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I'd remove 2 of the 3 tubes....your discus would love you for it.


hmm... I'll take them out and see how things go. should I still keep the lights on for 6 hrs then?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

zhasan said:


> hmm... I'll take them out and see how things go. should I still keep the lights on for 6 hrs then?


That's entirely up to you. Since you have no plants, the lights are for your benefit, not the fishes'.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Yeah, I'm plannin on introducing some low light plants. I'll be getting them from Ming in the next few weeks.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Can the number of tubes that are on be controlled? If not, I would just use the one tube and only when you want to see the fish for now. As you bring the plants in, I'd use 2 tubes, and add a bit of Excel/Metricide, but unless you really want to get lots of plants going, I would not use the 3rd tube at all. I'm growing plants right now in my 20 gallon with a 9W LED light no problem.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Can the number of tubes that are on be controlled? If not, I would just use the one tube and only when you want to see the fish for now. As you bring the plants in, I'd use 2 tubes, and add a bit of Excel/Metricide, but unless you really want to get lots of plants going, I would not use the 3rd tube at all. I'm growing plants right now in my 20 gallon with a 9W LED light no problem.


No, its a very basic light fixture.. no separate controls. Let see how this goes.. I don't want to see the algae in there.. It looks very ugly! lol.. so I'm up for trying everything to do that.

I don't really want to grow plants in that tank too much.. Its more for aesthetics! So as long as the light is able to keep them alive and in good shape I'm ok. I need to learn Discus properly before venturing into planted Discus tanks!

you mentioned Excel/Metricide.. is that the liquid form of CO2?


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Z. I'll hook up a bit of metricide for you when we meet up for the easy to grow hazzle free pennyworts. Don't need to go get a bottle if it's just for spot dosing BBA. Plants are ready for pick up if you want. They've already grown two to three new leaves from when I chopped them down into segments.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

jobber604 said:


> Z. I'll hook up a bit of metricide for you when we meet up for the easy to grow hazzle free pennyworts. Don't need to go get a bottle if it's just for spot dosing BBA. Plants are ready for pick up if you want. They've already grown two to three new leaves from when I chopped them down into segments.


Thanks Ming! Seems like the CO2 injection is working wonders in your tank!!


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

I wouldn't say wonders.... congruous to what you're dealing with, I need to spot check lately. But thanks to Gary's help, able to keep it in check for the time being. Back to your tank, what have you've been feeding the discus?


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

I've been feeding them basic flakes 4-5 times a day... usually they get a longer break from food when I'm gone but then I in the evening I feed them every couple of hours. I now only give them frozen BWs on Fridays... thats their treat day! and I throw in a cube of dried blackworms (i got from April) every night.

They all seem to be eating well and growing slowly. I wish I had the time to do daily water changes... but oh well.. I'm happy with what I have so far! 

Here are a few picture I took on Friday after a 50% water change.


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)




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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

oh and a little update on other fish in there.

I lost 3 more cardinals to hungry discus I guess... hence the increased dose of food and reduction in temperature to 30.. I had it all the way up to 31.5 and these guys were eating like pigs! 

I lost the last of two panda cories in the last week and also the albino a week back. So out of my purchase from King Eds on boxing day.. all thats remaining are the two cardinals! :$ 

I don't know why but I've never had success with cories for some reason. I don't know what it is that I do wrong. 

Anyway, the BNPs are doing great! I thought I lost one but it wasn't the case because the bigger one decided to go in the hiding when the temperature was above 31. She came back out when I dropped the temp.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Nice pictures. certain cories such as sterbais can live image temperature range of discus. Panda cories are exceptionally sensitive and require temperature below 25°C. Just remember that the higher the temperature range for the fish, the more they'd want to eat due to faster metabolism.

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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

Yeah, they were fine until they were in the QT tank. Even when I moved them over, they were doing well, but after a week, I noticed them slowing down a bit and thought It was just me.. until the day i found them upside down 

So Sterbais are gonna be okay in temps around 30? If thats the case then I'll get those.. I really like cories... I think they are one of the cutest bottom dewellers!!!


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Sterbais are one of them I'm certain that can live in the same temperature range. I'll let some of the flatfish owners to chime in and add to the list of corydoras that can live in the temperature range. Just saving you the grief and hit to the wallet


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Those temps are too high for Panda. If you want to keep Cories, get some Sterbai. At 31.5 C, I'm surprised that your pandas lasted this long.

As for the BBA, you don't need Metricide (yes, it's a liquid source of carbon), since you're not planting yet. Go to the drugstore and get some hydrogen peroxide and take whatever it is out of your tank and spray the infested object with the peroxide and rinse. H2O2 breaks down to water almost immediately, so it'll be safe to put back in the tank. If you can't take it out, then get a syringe and squirt it inside your tank, a few ml at a time.

Once you go planted, then start using the Metricide.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Just an added thought as far as Cories are concerned - almost all of them, except for Pandas, should acclimate well to the discus temps over time. I've had Bronze, Emeralds, and Pepper Cories in my discus tank for a couple of years, and all are doing well.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think it's not just the temps either. Pandas tend to be more shy and probably can't get enough to eat in a tank with cichlids...in my experience. I had some in my 125 gallon and they died one by one, while the agassizi did fantastic.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

You're probably right about that too, Gary.


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