# Dogs - breeding and researching the breed BEFORE you get them...



## African_Fever (Apr 22, 2010)

I figured rather than add on to the other thread regarding dog breeding etc, I'd start a new one. Just looking for others thoughts on the whole subject as it's been something at the forefront of my mind since adopting a pup from someone who didn't know what they were getting into, and finding a bit of a breed club locally to actually see others of the same breed as my two for comparison. 

I have two Vizsla's (pronounced Veeshla), and even though I think they're awesome dogs, I know they're definitely NOT for everyone. As a hunting breed, they're bred to run all day in the field, and come home and live in the house with their masters and be great companions. They're very high energy and NEED their exercise (you could walk them all day on-leash and it wouldn't do any good, they require off-lease running). But, when they've had their exercise, they're velcro dogs - they stick to you no matter what in the house, and want nothing more than to snuggle on the couch (either with you, or each other). Anything you read online about the breed will tell you this, and most reputable breeders will have a lengthy set of questions for you before agreeing to sell you a pup. 

We recently found a year-old female for sale online (my wife and I have been talking about getting another for quite some time), and after a few emails back and forth concerning her, waited for more information because I wasn't willing to pay $X for a dog that I didn't know it's history/bloodlines. We heard nothing, and then a few weeks ago found her up for free, and after again asking for the breeder (and getting it this time), we took her. Ended up she's from the same breeder as my five-year male in Ontario, so no question there that I had no worries and we took her home. They just found her to be too much dog for them, and couldn't keep up with her energy level (on top of the 4 other dogs we saw, including a grossly overweight retriever). Long story short, she's fitting in great with our male, and we're amazed at how well the two of them get along together. 

And now, my 'pet' peeve, is backyard breeders (it's just my opinion). If your dog isn't shown/titled, hunt-tested, or tested in some other way, I personally don't think they should be bred. As many others have stated, there's more than enough dogs already out there up for adoption that people shouldn't just be breeding dogs 'because I want puppies or $$$'. And I'm sorry, but 'I couldn't afford to have them spayed/neutered' doesn't hold much ground with me - again, it's a privilege, not a right to have a dog, and if you can't afford the bills (others brought up the SPCA's programs for those in need of assistance), then maybe you shouldn't have a dog. 

When dogs are bred for a purpose, you know exactly what you're getting (in terms of both physical characteristics and behaviour). I could go on for hours why and the benefits, but I'll leave this to get started for now.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

Personally , I'm not a fan of pure bred dogs. I'm also against back yard breeders.
I'm also against "holier than thou" people who tell people "if you can't afford, you shouldn't have ".....especially without knowing all the details of other peoples ownership and changing situations. I've been staying out of the threads as much as possible because I know the situation , and it's not my part to tell the whole story to others that have no need or reason to know.. Suffice to say the dog having puppies definitely was not Claudia's plan.. Far from it .. It was the irresponsibility of another that ended up her dog getting pregnant in a fenced yard not open to neighbourhood dogs. Enough said .... We all know there are far too many dogs in shelters because of irresponsible breeders and owners.


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## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

I bought a puppy 2 weeks ago. Miniature Dacshund. Checked out the house, their dogs, the parents the siblings from last year.

Not a pedigree, no showing papers. Just the vet list with shots, phsyical papers and history. Her name is Kyen and I have her potty trained on the pee pads within a week  I don't support puppy mills and hope that no one buys puppies from a pet store.


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

My first dog Asher was from the SPCA. She was 3 months old there when I adopted her, as a "border collie x". Well as far as we can tell, she's border collie, blue heeler and lab mix, shes on the small side looking more like the first 2. She is a HANDFUL. I was driving a lot between Prince George and Fort St John when she was young, and there were days I dreamed of her running away in the forest to never return.. that's how hard she was to handle, and I have trained dogs before. 
When you adopt, you just don't know what you are going to get - end of story. 
She is a total dream now. Still high-energy, but such a spectacular dog. It just took effort, lots and lots of effort. And bike rides...

My puppy I adopted a month ago was an "oops" puppy, similar to a member of this forum's situation. I don't really care how he came about, but all the puppies were adopted quickly, and all seem healthy. He didnt have first shots or vet check, but I took him in right away, and he was healthy. 

I am pro-spay/neuter. I do feel it is an owners responsibility to make sure this is done, but, if it is always done, I wouldnt have the 2 fantastic dogs I currently have. 

Every coin has two sides.

Edit: Oh, and the puppy was free. No profit was made from the owner. He was not interested in making money, only homes for the pups.


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

Is funny how members make threads about pets and no one says anything bad i make mine and boom lol oh well As for my dogs, I got Tyson from spca, he was 1 year old and very agressive he is 13 now and he is a big puppy, he changed a lot he was been abussed before and with loving care he changed so much.
As for Macy she is rescued too, no paper no shots when i got her and is my choice to fix her or not and i chose not to do it yet, at the same time i cant control other peoples choices just mine.
I have been pretty much called irresponsible on this and my thread but is the other way around, i am waaaay to responsible, i am doing this all by myself, i am taking care of my dog and i will b doing the same for the puppies. 
Also everybody promotes breeders and/or people to breed dogs and cats cause u buy them, i dont i adopt instead


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

davefrombc said:


> Personally , I'm not a fan of pure bred dogs. I'm also against back yard breeders.
> I'm also against "holier than thou" people who tell people "if you can't afford, you shouldn't have ".....especially without knowing all the details of other peoples ownership and changing situations. I've been staying out of the threads as much as possible because I know the situation , and it's not my part to tell the whole story to others that have no need or reason to know.. Suffice to say the dog having puppies definitely was not Claudia's plan.. Far from it .. It was the irresponsibility of another that ended up her dog getting pregnant in a fenced yard not open to neighbourhood dogs. Enough said .... We all know there are far too many dogs in shelters because of irresponsible breeders and owners.


Thanks Dave, i couldnt say it better myself


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

I am pro spay-neuter too.. But there is a little more to those decision and future consequences. Many vets and pet lovers don't recommend spaying pets until after they have had their first heat at least .. Most recommend spaying as soon as they are old enough, and before first heat. 
There is one unfortunate result of spaying that is fortunately very rare, but is out there .. Older spayed bitches can begin having troubles with bladder control. My last dog was one of them .. By the way .. she was also a rescue dog, and not one I had to pay for ... Her medication for bladder control weren't cheap, and I'm sure even though she lived to be 14, I suspect the medications and bladder problems shortened her life a bit. 
I don't know of any similar problems for neutered dogs though.


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

I have mixed reactions for my pup too regards neutering because he is a large breed. the Vet says 7 months, the assistant (a friend) says 6 months so he doesnt begin to mark his territory, but other say 14 months!! the vet says 7 to give his joints a bit more chance to mature before the marking begins.. if he was to get out of the yard (its fenced, honest) and get some other dog pregnant, its not just that persons fault, its mine, but i can defend it is in the interest of my dog's health. 

i still am not sure when i will neuter him.


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## African_Fever (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm not out here to flame anyone, and I suppose the timing of my thread in relation to the other thread may not have been in the best taste. But with my recent adoption of a year-old pup from someone who said they researched the breed but 'didn't expect them to be THAT high energy', it's been in the forefront of my mind. 

Sure, to spay or neuter is your own choice, but if you choose not to you need to be aware of when your dog is in heat and take the necessary precautions. I commend Claudia for planning to do all she can for the pups, but it's not a situation I'd want to be in personally due to the breeds involved. 

I didn't want this to be a 'flame Claudia thread', so if the mods feel it's going that way and getting out of hand, feel free to close it. I was just curious as to peoples' beliefs on getting a puppy/dog, and what sort of research they do before, or what drives them to do it in the first place.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

some say a male wont "grow" to the size it should be if neutered early.. could be a myth... my male dogs a wait till they are a year and a half before I neuter them

females there is a upside to spaying early.. they increase there chance of cancer as well if spayed late.. any females ive owed i try to get spayed asap

I have one female who was spayed right away..

Bailey, who I recently had to put down was not fixed.. tho I never bred her.. i was contemplating whether I would or not as she had a very sweet disposition.. but i was gonna wait till I vet checked her out before I would proceed

With all that said I agree with dave as I would never go for a pure bred dog.. I actually have never spent any money on aquiring a dog.. I like mutts as they tend to not have breed spacific problems and a lot of pure breds are over bred.. tho there is the handful of them that are healthy there are a lot that arent.. a lot of the "pure breds" that have fewer problems seem to derive from mixed breeding and a newley developed breed.. 

As far as backyard breeders.. I dont care.. they are always going to exsist no matter what.. and some of the hybrids that are deleloped tho this can have quite desirable traits and in some cases less breed assosiated problems


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

hmmm, I agree with most of what you said. However there is one aspect that bothers me. My parents have retired racing Greyhounds. They got the idea of giving one a good home. Contacted the contact person, purchased the recommended book, joined a forum etc. One thing occured to me. All Greyhounds except the very small population of show dogs will soon be extinct, because they are fixed before being released into their retirement homes.

My point, we seam to be making decisions based on what we feels is best for the dogs. Selective breeding of pure strains can also have a detriment to the genetic line of the dogs. It is possible that one day the pure lines will start to die off. I have had some dogs that were crosses, from "backyard breeders", most of them make excellent pets. I feel that crosses are necessary for the survival of the species in the long run. The different breeds are, for the most part, a human invention through selective breeding.

Now for a thorny issue that may generate some strong emotions or even a flame or two. How do you feel about the different races of humans interbreeding and creating crosses. Personally I feel that a human is a human regardless of their genetic background, their genetic background play very little if any role as to what kind of person they turn out to be. I feel the same about other species too.

Steve


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

I love that you brought up that interracial bit actually. 

Funny how some people are against and for different races producing offspring. 

Did you know that there is a secluded group of people in Ethopia who are more immune to the AIDS virus than the rest of the population? Think about that one a bit. 

I imagine theres the bad side to that too, I dont know any proven stories or statistics, but I bet there's some genetic issues with some groups of say, Jehovas witnesses or amish or jewish, etc etc. Anyone have more information on that?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

i think mixing is always benificial.. biodivercity poeple make the stong stronger and weeds out the meak

AIDs is derived from HIV.. its a virus.. a virus is still known as a non living living organism.. how can you been more immune to a virus if you still get it? its an illness that dosent kill you but every other illness kills you as your immunity is shot.. if you don't mind i would love to read this study/article .. can you send it too me? It dosent make any sence to me.. i mean there is only one last step to trying to rid oneself of it and its a 4 week process which makes one very ill.. If there were a goup of people out there that are immune im sure they would be used for study to save millions of poeple.. as far as my knowlage basis is concerned aids is a pendmic in Ethiopia

not an argument.. i just want to read that


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## fraggalrock (Apr 21, 2010)

I think mixed people are beautiful
But I am a bit biased because my son is mixed  love is pure and not based on color or ethnicity.


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

I meant that the group of people is more immune in general. More people out of the population are immune to the virus than other populations accross the globe.

Staying alive: the women who are immune to Aids | World news | The Observer
AIDS Immunity - The Spark of Yahoo!

seems i got the areas wrong. theres little articles all over the web regarding this phenomenon.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

There are a small percentage of people in all races and ethnic groups that are immune to the HIV virus. It is possible to have pockets of population where immunity is much higher than usual.. TCR .. It is possible for people to have immunity to all sorts of viruses .. that's what flu shots , and other immunity shots you get are for .. Unfortunately , they haven't been able to develop a serum against HIV yet because it is such a fast mutating virus. They have to find a serum that works against all variants of HIV.

They are studying the DNA sequences of people they've found with increased resistance and immunity to HIV to see if they can find a "magic bullet" common to all of them and try to develop a vaccine from that information.


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## suzzie (Nov 15, 2010)

theres also the term "backyard breeders" 

theres 2 kinds...

Type 1: people who have a few dogs, or a dog, that isnt fixed, and visits all the other unfixed dogs in the area producing unknown mixed dogs that were never supposed to happen. I strongly feel that these people need to adopt out their pups for free, and then immediately spay their dog. 

Type 2: people who purposefully breed mixed dogs, with no papers. These people often times research and see what a dog will benefit from, and then breed pet quality animals. 


If you plan on being a breeder...then thats awesome! do some research, and be prepared to handle ALL the consequences, which include taking care of and feeding every single one of those pups if they dont find a home. 

If you dont plan on breeding, or know nothing of dogs (which lots of people dont...and thats totally fine too), fix your animal as soon as its deemed healthy by the vet, and until that time it is fixed, take extreme precautions around other animals. none of this...oh well oneday fifi might decide to be a mom...of course she will!! its in her instinct!!

My grandfather back in the czech republic bred hunting dogs (english cocker spaniels and wire haired dashunds) so the dog thing is kinda in blood I guess you can say...my parents owned a PB english cocker, they now own a farm bred "backyard dog" that is border collie mix (from type 2 breeder). 

my husband and I currently have 2 dogs. both rescues, one is a cane corso cross from the spca, the other is a seized rescue dog that was abused and is PB german shorthair pointer (no papers).

I'm on the fence about weather I choose PB or crosses...as a whole crosses are known to be healthy happy mutts...make good pets, but there can be SO many variables, then theres the flip side of if you're looking for a companion pet...why do you want to fork out $2500 for a papered puppy that you have no intention to show?

This is a forever ongoing debate with horses too (I own a mare) about whether to breed papers or not..but with horses you're looking at 1 foal a year, as opposed to a possibly 12-14 puppies 2-3 times a year!


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

I am also a mix, half peruvian half italian and i turn out ok yeah i know a bit crazy but ok lol
I wasnt planning on getting my dog prego by a pitbull, i did wanted her to have puppies in the future just once and fix her but with a german shepard


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

In the words of my favorite comedian Russell Peters:

the world is shrinking, cultures are merging, and we're all going to end up, not white, black, brown, or yellow, but beige. 

I wonder if you applied this to dogs what we would get


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

davefrombc said:


> There are a small percentage of people in all races and ethnic groups that are immune to the HIV virus. It is possible to have pockets of population where immunity is much higher than usual.. TCR .. It is possible for people to have immunity to all sorts of viruses .. that's what flu shots , and other immunity shots you get are for .. Unfortunately , they haven't been able to develop a serum against HIV yet because it is such a fast mutating virus. They have to find a serum that works against all variants of HIV.
> 
> They are studying the DNA sequences of people they've found with increased resistance and immunity to HIV to see if they can find a "magic bullet" common to all of them and try to develop a vaccine from that information.


perhaps there is but basic phycology states "know your sources" and question information in order to get a correct understanding.. its not to create a debate that i ask that.. it was to obtain the information in question as i thought it was intresting


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

I currently have a deposit down for a PB papered Shiba Inu. The main reason being that there just isn't any other source to get one! I researched the breed extensively and found that they were the perfect fit for me. I was determined to get one no matter the cost.

The only type of breeders I have problems with are those that are only in it for the money, and where the health of the dogs are not the first priority.


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## ibenu (Apr 21, 2010)

I liked this threads idea. I have a Neapolitan mastiff. I thoughT I had done my research but read what I know (to be true for ours) versus what is written on breed..
Loyal, wary of strangers---Will only like you
Courageous, natural protecters--Will throw themselves in front of you to thwart any perceived threat
Intelligent-- Super smart, willfull, obedience classes or training mandatory to have a controllable dog.

I could go on, point is interview owners of the breed you plan to get, and a number of them at that. I love my dog endlessly, but have met many owners since and it is never a walk in the park (aa haa ahh) with a neo. 

Its amazing how our desire to own such a laid back beast (as low exercise requirements was mandatory for me) could result in total Hypervigilance on our part

Enjoy your pets, things change, circumstances that can lead to the very adoptions so many of you have been so wonderful to partake in 

Thanks for the venue to say my bit

Lisa


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

Working in a pet store that is Pro-pedigree that gets most of its puppies through the hunte cooperation, I have to say i am against the whole common day system of how puppies are bread. People now a days just do not do there education, all they say is "i want a puppy." There are sooo many differences out there between the breeds, and if an owner does not get the right breed, it can lead into lots of issues.

When i was younger, about 8 years old, we had a **** hound mixed with a border collie. This dog was nuts. The cool hound in him gave him speed and the border collie gave him the smarts. He was an awesome dog. But, because we didn't look into the breed of the puppy, we over looked the aggression of the dog and didn't teach him otherwise when he was younger. In the end, a family in squamish adopted him and he had the run of the woods up there 

I have to say, i am defiantly for cross breads all around, the gene pool in pedigree puppies is getting less and less, and because of that, you continually see different genetic defects. Not only this, but because of cross breading, i find you can shape the personality of a dog more. because they have two backgrounds, you have a greater variety of personality traits. 

As for backyard breeding, I say this is a big no-no. Most of the backyard breeding you see is with larger, more aggressive dogs. Now i am not saying these breeds are not okay to keep, but i think that in Vancouver, over 75 percent of the larger, aggressive breeds like pit bulls are not brought up properly. When our little service dog, quatichi, a chocolate lab, was down at the doggie park, he was seriously injured by one. You see these cases again and again, and its really not okay. Also, if you are breeding larger dogs at home, there growth rate is way higher. This puts a time line on getting them to new homes. That's why my pet store only brings in large breeds on special order. 

I believe that banning dogs for sale out of pet stores might help or hinder the situation of backyard breeders. If you ban the sale of puppies, the cost of importing dogs, or getting the specific breed you want will go up, so more people will turn to local breeders. This is a positive, and a negative. It will beat down the need for puppy mills, but at the same time, you might not get the breed of dog that fits your life style.

There are lots of topics surrounding dogs that i hear about on a regular basis and i talk about with my costumers. Most of the time i am the educating person of the owners of a dog that is already adopted, and i find that sad really. I am only 15 years old, i am sure people out there can do more research. After reading a few comments on here i am glad to see there are educated people


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

AWW: While I appreciate that you strongly believe your puppies are coming from reputable breeders I have to say NO REPUTABLE BREEDER WOULD EVER SELL TO A PET STORE NOT KNOWING WHAT KIND OF HOME THEIR PUPPY IS GOING. EVER. That is just not the kind of breeder I want to buy from. 

I have a mutt, I love her, I also love purebreds (I have one of those too) and if I am looking for a purebred I am willing to spend the extra $ on an animal that was planned, it's parents screened for as many possible genetic issues as possible (that's not cheap, I know where my money is going) from a breeder who cares. 
My mutt is a rescue dog and she is my best friend, if I could clone her I would, but therein lies the idea of purebreds, having an idea of what you're getting into... I'll still likely choose rescue dogs (how can I not, I work at the vet, the broken ones find me! lol)


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## athena (Apr 22, 2010)

From what I have learnt so far, it is best to let dogs have a chance to mature and grow before spaying or neutering them. Females should be able to have at least one heat, though two would be ideal. Males are slower maturing (just like us humans ). There are always possibility of a complication while in surgery. The breeder whom I got my dog from has lost bitches while being spayed. It does not happen often, but it does happen.

As for backyard breeders vs purebreed breeders........Not all people who breed purebreed dogs with papers know their dogs and genetics. And definitely not all are responsible. Some backyard breeders may be even better than those. You have to really talk to the breeder. Ask them loads of questions. 

The good thing I like about purebreed breeders is that most come with health guarentee while backyard breeders (of any breeds, mix or pure) don't usually do that. 

I absolutely love the breeder of my current dog. She knows her dogs and is excellent at matching people with the right dog. She will also demand a dog back from a buyer if something happens as oppose to just letting the dog be put down (unless it is also recommended by her own vet) or sent to shelters. Not everyone is willing to do this. Such as my previous dog (who is a purebred with papers from a 'reputable' breeder). 

As buyers of puppies, we really need to ask questions and listen to advise. As for breeding dogs, it is personal choice. If there weren't a market for selling dogs, there wouldn't be people breeding them for money. So, it boils down to buyers (just my personal opinion )


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

Keri said:


> AWW: While I appreciate that you strongly believe your puppies are coming from reputable breeders I have to say NO REPUTABLE BREEDER WOULD EVER SELL TO A PET STORE NOT KNOWING WHAT KIND OF HOME THEIR PUPPY IS GOING. EVER. That is just not the kind of breeder I want to buy from.
> 
> I have a mutt, I love her, I also love purebreds (I have one of those too) and if I am looking for a purebred I am willing to spend the extra $ on an animal that was planned, it's parents screened for as many possible genetic issues as possible (that's not cheap, I know where my money is going) from a breeder who cares.
> My mutt is a rescue dog and she is my best friend, if I could clone her I would, but therein lies the idea of purebreds, having an idea of what you're getting into... I'll still likely choose rescue dogs (how can I not, I work at the vet, the broken ones find me! lol)


Our puppies are not coming through reputable breeders in my opinion. Many breeders try and go though pets stores and are turned down. The puppies we get are from breeders looking for profit.


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## fraggalrock (Apr 21, 2010)

The Hunte Corporation sources their puppies from puppy mills and is one of the most dispicable organizations on this planet.No reputable breeder would ever sell to a pet store and would be banned from the Canadian Kennel Club and fined.I am thrilled that the city of Richmond has now passed a law no longer allowing pet stores to sell puppies.I worked as a veterinary tech for many years an saw many horror stories.Putting two dogs together that look the same does not mean they are purebreds.Whats just as bad is the so called designer breeds mixing mutts and giving them fancy names like snoodles,and doodles etc.Good breeders are not breeding for money in fact most are in the red making sure they do it right.They are breeding to preserve the breed because they love it.All dogs deserve love and good owners and mutts make wonderful and loyal pets but sadly they are not as easy to rehome as the purebreds.


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

AWW said:


> Our puppies are not coming through reputable breeders in my opinion. Many breeders try and go though pets stores and are turned down. The puppies we get are from breeders looking for profit.


I apologize, I mis-read your post.


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## African_Fever (Apr 22, 2010)

Some very good points brought up on both sides.

Personally, the breeders that I have the most problem with as far as purebreds go,(and the ones IMO that give purebreds a bad name), are the ones who figure just because they have a papered dog, ie. a lab, that they should breed it with another papered dog of the same breed. No questions of whether or not hips, eyes, joints etc. are ok, or if it has any problem inherited from its parents, just wanting to breed their dog because 'people told me she/he is awesome and I should breed him/her'. This type of breeding is what dilutes the breeds and gives purebreds a bad name as far as health and mental issues go. They're not breeding to breed standards, and in the end with a lot of breeds they become so different that even with a purebred you don't know what exactly you're going to get.

I'm into hunting breeds, so that's where most of my experience/knowledge is based. Right now with Labrador Retrievers, there's almost two different breeds, hunting and show ( Hunting Dogs vs. Show Dogs ), which I personally see as being a shame. There hasn't been a 'dual champion' (let alone triple champion) lab in years, and it'll probably be a while before one happens again. Show standards are usually set in place (at least for hunting dogs) to ensure a balance of form and function - ie. a dog with the correct physical traits will be able to hunt longer and be less prone to injury than one with legs that are too long or a torso that's too short. The hunting breeders became so focused on hunting that they got away from the show standards, and the show breeders so focused on the ring that their dogs wouldn't know what a bird was if it landed on their nose.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is just to be educated about where your dog is coming from. When people compare how much they spent for their dog initially, I don't care, it really doesn't mean anything over the course of a dogs lifetime. When you compare the initial price of a dog at $1000+ over the course of it's lifetime of 10+ years (and possibly $1000+/year between food, treats, vet, kennel costs etc.), the initial price really doesn't account for anything. IMO getting purebred dogs from someone that truly loves the breed and goes to the extent of keeping an extended bloodline, testing all breeding dogs for any problems they can (X-ray hips and shoulders, eye tests etc.), and showing and hunt testing all their dogs, is well worth the initial investment.

I know you can get great crosses/mutts, and I've got no problem with them at all, but you're essentially taking a chance and have no clue what you're going to end up with. I don't have any problem with what fraggalrock refers to as the 'designer breeds' either - most of them nowadays crossed with poodles, because many of those people are attempting to breed for a purpose (a non-shedding dog with other specific traits). But what most people fail to realize is that you're never guaranteed to get what you want (ie. non-shedding is NOT guaranteed just by crossing with a poodle). With responsibly-bred purebred dogs, you know almost exactly what you're getting, and with a little research, can pick a breed that is right for YOU.


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

So much information! One thing is for sure though.. I love my rescued mutts.


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## ibenu (Apr 21, 2010)

African_Fever said:


> Some very good points brought up on both sides.
> I'm into hunting breeds, so that's where most of my experience/knowledge is based.


I wanted to say that the hunting dog forums were WAY kinder to me when I was struggling with training than the girly big dog forums I had expected camaraderie with.


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

katienaha said:


> I love that you brought up that interracial bit actually.
> 
> Funny how some people are against and for different races producing offspring.
> 
> ...


Sorry to sidetrack this thread. I don't know about other religions, but I know for sure with Jehovah's Witnesses, (as I am one) that there is no genetic issues. Our religion is open to marry any race. My wife is Jamacian and Trinidadian. My mom is British, my dad was born in Kuala Lumpur so I don't really know all the cultures that could be in my background on his side. There are lots of interrracial couples who are Jehovah's Witnesses. I personally am friends with a large number.


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

target said:


> Sorry to sidetrack this thread. I don't know about other religions, but I know for sure with Jehovah's Witnesses, (as I am one) that there is no genetic issues. Our religion is open to marry any race. My wife is Jamacian and Trinidadian. My mom is British, my dad was born in Kuala Lumpur so I don't really know all the cultures that could be in my background on his side. There are lots of interrracial couples who are Jehovah's Witnesses. I personally am friends with a large number.


Thanks for more information. All I knew from a friend who is Jehovah's Witness that she could only marry another Jehovah's witness, but that doesnt necessarily mean a small genetic pool either.


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

katienaha said:


> Thanks for more information. All I knew from a friend who is Jehovah's Witness that she could only marry another Jehovah's witness, but that doesnt necessarily mean a small genetic pool either.


You are correct. And no, not a small pool at all.


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## donjuan_corn (May 6, 2010)

Okay time out!!!! Dog's came from the wolf family. All dogs have been interbred to make certain species, example taking two of the tallest dogs you have and breeding them and then the next and the next till you get great danes. Taking the two smallest dogs and keep breeding them until you get a yorkie. Taking a dog with a spot or multiple spots and short hair and breeding them till you get a dalmation. 

Midevil times people bred small dogs so they could carry them around and dogs to hunt. A dacshund which I have was for badgers and could burrow and get in the holes in the ground, long and slender. This involved a lot of inbreeding to get the perfect mixes. 

I like having a dog that's all dacshund, but I have nothing against what my dad calls a bitza dog. Bits of this and bits of that. 

I will however never condone the purchase of a puppy from a pet store. Especially if you can't visit the mother or father or know their temperments and visit where the dog was born.

I don't need papers for a show, I just need to know my dog isn't a puppy mill dog and that the people breeding them are nice and not out for just money. The person I bought my dog from keeps in contact with me to see how Kyen is doing. A+

Any my Jehovah's witness cousin got pregnant before getting married and she got booted for a year...... Nice.


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## suzzie (Nov 15, 2010)

i agree with the puppy from a pet store...totally awful!!

I was always wondering as the pet thing always bothers me soo much...

I was talking to my co-worker about the idea of say having a pet store (brick and mortar building) and then researching and having contacts for local reputable breeders. 

I just find that a lot of uneducated people dont know where else to get a dog...and you learn a lot with your first dog, more so then just reading them..so if these uneducated people walk into a pet store, and you can educate them and talk to them about their lifestyle, recommend a few breeds for them to look into, and then recommend several breeders that you have set up in you book/roladex to recommend them to? 

Clearly puppy mills have a business and are making money because people are uneducated...stop selling puppies in stores...period..and start educating people on dogs? thats just always been an idea of mine...I should try owning a pet store and give this a shot...it would be a lot of work, but I think once you have a good network and book of breeders, they could come and do "litter show offs" or meet the breed days, and actually bring some of the dogs to the store, maybe do a little knowledge session and talk about the breed, etc. 

would this be something people might go for?


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

sounds super cool suzzie!

not only just breeders showing off dogs, but PEOPLE showing off their dogs. people can sign up, say for a small fee that goes to the SPCA or something, to show off their mutts or cross breeds that match the criteria for the breed of the week or whatever. 

would help the spca adopt out animals thats for sure, getting the public to see what a great pyrenees looks like as an adult!

I was lucky when i got my pup as he is part great pyrenees... theres one 2 doors down from me so I KNOW how big they get, instead of people telling me "oh he'll get huge, 150lbs!" and i say ... "no.. more like 120, and hes part lab so likely it'll bring the size down a little.."


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## suzzie (Nov 15, 2010)

its something im definately thinking about pursuing...it would require a LOT of research and work, but something I think would be worth doing?


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## teija (Sep 30, 2010)

fraggalrock said:


> I am thrilled that the city of Richmond has now passed a law no longer allowing pet stores to sell puppies.


Have they really? And when did/does this take effect? I was going past the pet store in Richmond Centre and they still had plenty of "oh-so-cute" puppies in there.


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## fraggalrock (Apr 21, 2010)

teija said:


> Have they really? And when did/does this take effect? I was going past the pet store in Richmond Centre and they still had plenty of "oh-so-cute" puppies in there.


It will take place the begining of the year read story here,I hope other cities do the same.

CTV British Columbia - B.C. city passes Canada's first puppy sale ban - CTV News


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