# A Red Cherry Shrimp Dies With Almost Every Water Change, Why?



## Guest

15 gallon red cherry shrimp tank ... sponge filter ran in 30 gallon for a month then put in 15 gallon ... cycled 15 gallon for two months, added 10 test shrimp, two weeks later added 40 ... tank has aqua soil substrate, live plants only, a piece of driftwood, water parameters consistently ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates less than 10 ... every time i do a water change the next morning i see a dead one ... it has happened three times now ... i have tried leaving pails of water sitting out for a week (still used dechlorinator), i have used water right from the tap with dechlorinator and i have tried just filling up the evaporation with dechlorinated water ... am i doing something wrong ... there are a kazillion babies too ... and i might have a snail situation ... any suggestions ???


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## clintgv

I'm not a shrimp guy but maybe you were changing the water to fast?
When my friend purchased a shrimp from a member, he was doing water change by using air tubes (sucking the other end and letting it flow to the tank. So I'm guessing you need to do it slow?

But that's just what I saw. Like I said I'm not a shrimp person. Maybe someone can confirm or not 

Clint.


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## Scholz

red cherry shrimp are pretty tough shrimp.... I find them in my canister filter alive all the time. And they breed like crazy. The only question I have is are you giving them calcium in any way. In other words what is you GH @?

When I do water changes it's straight from the tap with a hose. Then buffer the KH and the GH.... I've never noticed any shrimp loss.... they are becoming a pest...


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## Guest

i do have a test kit for GH but i have never used it, i will have to dig it out ... i am not giving them calcium but there is a piece of coral in the tank ... i do have liquid calcium for my snail tank, would that be the type of calcium you are referring to ?


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## Guest

the pH is 6.6


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## Scholz

Yeah that's the stuff... Or any calcium buffer / GH buffer.... GH is calcium and magnessium.... I bet if you dig that test out and test you'll find you GH is low... What are you feeding your little shrimpies too?


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## Guest

i alternate algae wafers and some fancy shrimp food, i want to call it shakira but i am pretty sure that is a pop singer, but it sounds like that


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## Scholz

cool so what's you GH at? Could just be a lack of calcuim to replenish their shells when they molt....


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## Guest

with respect, Scholz, it is after midnight and i know exactly where the kit is ... it is in a very crammed closet which will take a bit of digging ... i will post tomorrow ... maybe when you are on next, check this question and i will post it  i appreciate your help ...


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## BettaGuy

check for copper when you get the chance. I've tested water for a lot of people where I work, and a good number of them have noticeable levels of it. I doubt it's a problem regardless. Yes do check your gH. Vancouver water is no higher than 15-20 ppm and often lower. 

I wasn't sure if you mentioned it earlier, but how much water are you changing weekly? Like someone mentioned earlier, I wonder if there is a pH shock associated with it. 

Hope things turn out for the best


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## thharris

I usualy put some baking soda in when adding water it seems to help out with the van, water.


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## Guest

okay, i checked the GH ... the test was kinda confusing ... it said add 1 drop and the water turns pink ... then add another drop and shake, continuing to do so until the water turns blue ... then it says multiple drops by 20 to get the GH ... now is that how many drops i added after the first drop to turn it pink or all drops in total ... i am going with 3 drops in total which includes the first drop which would mean a GH of 60 which is soft ... what are the implications of that ... does that mean i add the liquid calcium, how much, how often ??? and the pH from my tap is in the 7's and the shrimp tank is in the 6's ... i do about 20% per week, one week i just filled up evaporation ... i appreciate any suggestions :O) ... and if it is a pH issue, how do i change the pH of tap water to match the pH of the shrimps ???


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## plantedinvertz

My Gh is at 45 in my shrimp tanks so you should be fine


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## wsl

Rather than trying to match the pH of your tap water to match of your tank, it may be that your tank's KH value is not high enough, so your system does not have any buffering capacity against any sort of pH fluctuation.


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## neven

I wouldn't jump on what to add to the tank if you have a very soft water reading. Its common in vancouver to have a KH and GH that is next to nothing. To raise both it doesn't take much work to do it, the cheapest most effective way is a tiny mesh bag of crushed coral in your filter, it'll raise your hardness very slowly, and you'll only have dips during the water change0

. How much? well i recommend starting with very little, my 29 gallon uses a mesh bag of roughly 1 cup of crushed coral in an xp1 cannister. The KH and GH are almost equal at 100-120 mg/L, which gives excellent buffer capacity and eliminates the need to add baking soda or gh booster. i have yet to lose a fish during a 50% water change, or even a shrimp. It'll also keep your PH at around 6.8-7.0 rarely deviating from that.


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## Guest

i only have a sponge filter but i will get some crushed coral ... could i just have it in the tank or does it have to be in a bag or something ?


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## neven

if you can get a mesh bag in the tank hidden near the sponge filter it'll do the same, just not as efficiently. Probably easier to maintain this way too  a plus is it'll allow for more beneficial bacteria to colonize the tank


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## Guest

i am getting some tomorrow ... thanks for everyone's help ... i can not stand death in my tanks !!! my brother was like, it is just three shrimps, but i don't look at it that way ... what does he know, he owns nothing alive :O)


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## Scholz

Yeah it's probably a combination of the PH swing and the low calcium....

My rcs are super hardy to the PH shift...


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## gimlid

neven said:


> I wouldn't jump on what to add to the tank if you have a very soft water reading. Its common in vancouver to have a KH and GH that is next to nothing. To raise both it doesn't take much work to do it, the cheapest most effective way is a tiny mesh bag of crushed coral in your filter, it'll raise your hardness very slowly, and you'll only have dips during the water change0
> 
> . How much? well i recommend starting with very little, my 29 gallon uses a mesh bag of roughly 1 cup of crushed coral in an xp1 cannister. The KH and GH are almost equal at 100-120 mg/L, which gives excellent buffer capacity and eliminates the need to add baking soda or gh booster. i have yet to lose a fish during a 50% water change, or even a shrimp. It'll also keep your PH at around 6.8-7.0 rarely deviating from that.


I just used to add a tablespoon about once a month to my 10 gallon shrimp tank. I had very similar gh and kh to Nevin and ph stayed solid also. I had so many they became weekly snack treats for my cichlids. 
I think they have a relatively short lifespan if I remeber correctly. Could old age be a factor?


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## thharris

wow duh good catch gimlid they could just be old


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## thefishwife

yup could be old or when you do w/c that is when a shrimp can/will molt. its an amazing process when they molt and sometimes they just can't do it.


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## Rastapus

Sounds like hardness to me. With our soft water a big water change can shock the shrimp.


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## MadgicBug

With your PH being 6.6 and without CO2 injection I assume.

IMO as there are multiple ways of doing it - it looks like an alkality problem. Your GH at 60ppm (providing its balanced with Ca, Mg and all the other good stuff) is OK. I keep my cherries between 80-100ppm. 2hrs or so after your lights go off, that PH @ 6.6 will probably drop. Measure your PH at that point.

The alk and buffering (KH) capcity in Vancouver water is very low. Nitrificaiton process and your plant giving off CO2 at night will cut into it. Once it hits 0 or near 0, your PH will drop. Assuming no CO2 injection or something you put in your water on purpose to lower your PH. Your PH at 6.6 tells me that your KH is close to 0 and the tank will\can experience a PH swing. I'm going to take a guess that your plants are bringing it up to 6.6 during the day and at night it drops to 6.2.

Coral chips will help add alk\buffer\KH (as well as GH) into your water, but you will need good water flow for that to work effectively. I would not do baking soda as it will spike your PH up and then the PH will drop to correct itself, which will cause more harm than good. If you want to play it safe, get that netural PH power (7.0) and add a little in during water changes.

The water change is just a trigger and final bit that kills off the weeker shrimp.

Do you squeeze out your sponge during water changes?


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## Sandy Landau

It could be that the three deaths after water changes are coincidental. Maybe after your water changes you look at the tank more closely and notice a shrimp body before it gets eaten? They might just be old. You might not be doing anything wrong.

If you want to raise your GH you can get a bottle of this stuff that is made by Seachem, I think it is called Replenish. Then, just add 1 or 2 ml to your water when you change it. Very fast and easy and a bottle lasts a long time.


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## Guest

i have never squeezed my sponge, am i supposed to do that ??? the ones that died were larger sized ones so maybe a bit older than some of the others ... i will check the pH after lights out and see how that goes ... about the crushed coral, i have an air bubbler behind a piece of driftwood, would that be enough water flow if i put that behind the driftwood ??? i will look into pH neutralizers and the seachem replenish ... i have had good results with seachem products in the past :O) thanks every one ... i am doing a water change this weekend and hopefully all will survive :O)


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## Scholz

It's good to clean out the sponge from time to time. Best way to do it is take a bucket of the tank water and squeeze it in that. As you won't have a temperature change or chlorine to kill off the good bacteria...


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## MadgicBug

The sponge squeeze is good as how Scholz described during water changes. Sqeeze it half a dozen time or so and you will be shocked how dirty it is. Good for nutrient export and cuts down on the nitrification process. The coral by a sponge filter will do next to nothing. I don't bother putting coral in tanks I have a sponge filters in. Only useful in high water flow locations i.e. sumps, cannister filter, hob filters, etc. The finer the grain (more surface area) the better wrt volume. For a sponge filter tank, I use a combo of Alk buffer, GH booster (equilibrim for one), marine salt....not alot and not at the same time. Stay away from stuff like baking soda (bi carbs) unless you are experience dosing it as it may cause more damage than good.


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## Morainy

Like MadgicBug, I squeeze my foam prefilters into the bucket of water that I've just drawn from the tank. I do this almost every day because they get clogged up quickly. (These are just prefilter sponges on hang-on-the-back filters, though, not really a sponge filtration system.)

For GH, I usually use Equilibrium. Just sprinkle some into the water. It's by Seachem. 

I'm fairly new to shrimp but they seem to be surviving my attentions.


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## Guest

it has been months and the sponge has never been squeezed !!! i never knew  i will be doing that tomorrow ... and i will see if i can get some of the equilibrium too ... thanks


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## Morainy

Hey, Hoolagal, I see that you're downtown. Aquariums West has Equilibrium. Noah's Pet ark also sells it in bulk, so instead of buying a $15 jar you can just buy $5 worth.


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