# 120 gallon Dutch Planted something or another



## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)




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## Dunbar Painting (Apr 24, 2010)

SO NICE!

What are the specs?


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## Jessia (Oct 23, 2011)

Wow! Now that's a show tank!


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## rich16 (Mar 25, 2011)

That is absolutely stunning! Wow!


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

trimming the gloss:










1 week later









2 weeks later:


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Love it!

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235413,-123.185090


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## Captured Moments (Apr 22, 2010)

That's very nice Tom,
What are those very red stem plants in the middle? Would love to get some of that. It looks like Ludwigia Repens but I am not sure. I am assuming you have a sump below because I see an overflow box hanging.. does that not diffuse the Co2? or are you injecting Co2 or using liquid carbon?


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Absolutely stunning.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

What an amazing tank! I was drooling over that piece of wood next to the too lol


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## RoadTestRuss (Jun 25, 2011)

WOWZA! That is incredible! Excellent design and impressive display.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm just simply jealous.

Cheers,
Chris


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

Beautiful :0 Another planted tank to rival Fensters


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

Wow that's something! Absolutely gorgeous. 

Thanks for posting.


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## bigfry (Apr 21, 2010)

Gorgeous! as expected.

I am fascinated by the red plants that are red all the way to the bottom, and the shallow depth of substrates. Would really like to know the specs, any treatments to the substrates in setup stage...TIA


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## jkcichlid (Apr 21, 2010)

What a beauty!!!
Been following this one on TPT


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

That's unreal, nice work!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

unreal tank man! nicely done!


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## Treasure chest (Apr 21, 2010)

WOW, as expected, a master piece from a master.


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## bunnyrabbit (Jul 28, 2010)

AAAmazing!


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## madcow (Nov 26, 2010)

wow...im speechless. such a beautiful tank. excellent aquascaping!


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## zhasan (Oct 28, 2010)

This is absolutely the most amazing planted tank I've ever seen!!


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## tang daddy (Apr 21, 2010)

A masterpiece in the planted tank world... Very organized planting and well looked after. I also see some nice equipment, especially my favorite wave maker.... Didn't know people used Vortech pumps in a planted tank. Great Job!!


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## cpool (Apr 30, 2010)

Very cool! What type of wood is used? Just curios


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

I've got some stuff crammed in while they recover and moved some things around to see and explore what works nice and looks good in certain spots, scape wise, this is lousy.........but it can be recovered easily and phased in/out.

Background plants have done well and are fairly stable in the groupings I want. 
I need some more work on the front right, I have 2-3 pieces of wood that will make the border look better between the Fissidens and the C parva and the Erios. I'll trim the UG back and leave some open space there also.

Right side has some more grow out to do for the pantanal/Tonina and I'm undecided on Downoi, it's a nice plant though.. so it's hard to consider removing it.
I'll go through and make more distinction between the groups later on, that's a final trim and rework prior to a prime photoshoot.
Or.........if I just feel like doing it regardless of the status of the group/s.

I'm still playing around with various bulb configurations.

I could have waited till I had only a pretty perfect like tank, but then it's not a journal any more. Better to see it with warts and all, then see the recovery.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

cpool said:


> Very cool! What type of wood is used? Just curios


firewood.

Really, that's what it's labeled as. 
Manzanita.........

I have a few tones of it, so I sort of have to use it.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Captured Moments said:


> That's very nice Tom,
> What are those very red stem plants in the middle? Would love to get some of that. It looks like Ludwigia Repens but I am not sure. I am assuming you have a sump below because I see an overflow box hanging.. does that not diffuse the Co2? or are you injecting Co2 or using liquid carbon?


 Ludwigia "red" is all it's been labeled/called thus far, grows very easily also and stays a nice red without much fuss.

All my tanks use wet/drys, so does Amano's home big tank etc.
I just seal the wet/dry box so it does not degas, what goes in/must come out, so it degasses, but has nowhere to go, so simply dissolved back into solution and out the other end of the sump where there is no turbulence, so nothing gets degassed.

But the edge and any vents need sealed up etc where the water come in.

The sump part after that does NOT need to be sealed etc(that section is no different than the tank's top surface).

O2 levels are 1-2ppm higher(24/7), degassing at night after the CO2 stops takes about 30-45 min from 50ppm to 2-3 ppm. With canister filters, my CO2 was still at 10-20ppm even right before the lights came on 15 hours later(eg, CO2 was off for 15 hours).


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

ATI fixture with dimmer controller for true dusk/dawn lighting and many bulb types, still playing with the right bulb choices.

Not cheap, but cheaper than many of the nicer LED options and noit as bright as the LED. Energy watt/day was also about the same as most LED's options actually.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

amazing tank man! just beautiful


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## neoh (Apr 22, 2010)

Aaahh. UG. I've always wanted that plant.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

That is absolutely gorgeous! Love all the color in it and great layout!


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## rich16 (Mar 25, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> I could have waited till I had only a pretty perfect like tank, but then it's not a journal any more. Better to see it with warts and all, then see the recovery.


Please don't tell me that this has any warts :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I'd have to take my tanks down out of embarrassment!

That is absolutely gorgeous....


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## Arcteryx (Nov 23, 2011)

Awe-inspiring. Love the layout, contrast in colours, and um, that's a really nice piece of wood next to the tank too


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

neoh said:


> Aaahh. UG. I've always wanted that plant.


It's a bit slower to take, but once it does, it grows quite well, few folks make lawns out of it in larger displays.

Not sure why.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Its always a pleasure to see your journals tom! I tried UG myself before i bought my pressurized set up but it melted away one me due to co2 inconsistencies :/

What parameters of nutrients are you aiming at? I've been reading recently that recommended iron levels have been underestimated based on false presumptions, so i'm curious what iron ppm you aim for.


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## neoh (Apr 22, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> It's a bit slower to take, but once it does, it grows quite well, few folks make lawns out of it in larger displays.
> 
> Not sure why.


haha, you're not sure why they do, or why they don't?

It's a species that is not very easy to find here in Vancouver. I managed to get my hands on a small portion of it a few years ago but could never get it to take properly. The lighting was too poor at the time unfortunately and it wouldn't get a firm hold.

How did you make it stay put?


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

I just left it alone and added light/CO2 etc, it's not picky beyond that, does take longer to root and get going, I think many get algae or lose patience with it.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

neven said:


> Its always a pleasure to see your journals tom! I tried UG myself before i bought my pressurized set up but it melted away one me due to co2 inconsistencies :/
> 
> What parameters of nutrients are you aiming at? I've been reading recently that recommended iron levels have been underestimated based on false presumptions, so i'm curious what iron ppm you aim for.


I've never cared much about a ppm, just that the pplants are always not limited by ferts.

This frees me up to focus on CO2, once that's dialed in, then it's a matter of gardening/general care.

It's the plants. Not the ferts... that are important.

I dose roughly 0.3-0.4ppm per dose of Fe as proxy for most traces 3-5x a week. KNO3, about 15ppm 3x a week for NO3, PO4, about 5ppm 3x a week etc.

CO2 has been around 50ppm in this tank mostly.
Bobs around about +/-5ppm

ADA As is the sediment, nothing else was added.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

Pure admiration towards the beautiful 'scaped tank. Thanks for dropping by this forum and posting up some pics to share with us.


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## neoh (Apr 22, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> I've never cared much about a ppm, just that the pplants are always not limited by ferts.
> 
> This frees me up to focus on CO2, once that's dialed in, then it's a matter of gardening/general care.
> 
> ...


50ppm? Geez. How many fish do you have in there? That's a little high, no? If I go over 30ppm my fish have their nose in the air.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Species of fish have tolerances to co2 that vastly differ. If you have adequate oxygen levels and you slowly adjust your co2 higher, you would be surprised at what levels fish will show distress at. Of course when you hit that level, you dial back the co2 a bit. A misconception is that you cant have any surface movement when injecting co2 (specifically diy), so fish will show distress at lower concentrations due to both high co2 and low oxygen.

When i was using diy co2, i had a jello mix that would give me a drop checker solid yellow, since i didn't' want to redo another batch, i had to have an air stone running from 1 hour before lights off to 1 hour after lights on just to keep the livestock from gasping up top (and dying) through the night. So as long as the oxygen levels were sufficient, i had happy fish, despite the 35-40 ppm co2.

and thank you tom for the iron levels, i just realised for the last year my csm+b batch was way too weak, i was only dosing 0.15 ppm per dose... i probably didn't notice a deficiency due to having black flourite in many of my tanks. Could explain the weak growth i've had with some plants in the tank without the layer of flourite in the substrate


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

neoh said:


> 50ppm? Geez. How many fish do you have in there? That's a little high, no? If I go over 30ppm my fish have their nose in the air.


Trick: also have high O2, then they do not have issues.

I have a nice surface skimmer and wet/dry, since O2 is independent of the CO2 concentration, eg one does NOT push the other out of the tank/solution.............I have much more wiggle room and can also measure CO2 accuracyly.

The surface scum layer acts as strong barrier to O2. and planted tanks often using canister filters rarely pester the surface enough to get this layer removed.

Consistently on all 5 tanks that had canister filters and when I switched to all wet dry......I had an increase of 1-2ppm, which is quite a bit for O2, no matter what time I measured O2(I use a LDO Hach with data logging @ 15 min intervals) and then did the same with CO2.

The CO2 degassed in 30-45 minutes to 2ppm, in the canister filter version(same tank, just switched the filters), the CO2 never dropped below 15ppm.

Even 16 hours after being turned off.

This pattern was repeated 5x.

The tanks all run MUCH better as a result.
Easier to care for and easier to clean etc.
If it was one tank, well, you could argue it's just dumb luck.....but not all 5.

That's the nice thing about have several tanks doing well, you have comparative stats.

My 180 Gal has about 70ppm of CO2, less light than this tank, but fish are fine. It use to only decline to 20ppm CO2 after 16 hours of no lighting.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

neven said:


> Species of fish have tolerances to co2 that vastly differ. If you have adequate oxygen levels and you slowly adjust your co2 higher, you would be surprised at what levels fish will show distress at. Of course when you hit that level, you dial back the co2 a bit. A misconception is that you cant have any surface movement when injecting co2 (specifically diy), so fish will show distress at lower concentrations due to both high co2 and low oxygen.
> 
> When i was using diy co2, i had a jello mix that would give me a drop checker solid yellow, since i didn't' want to redo another batch, i had to have an air stone running from 1 hour before lights off to 1 hour after lights on just to keep the livestock from gasping up top (and dying) through the night. So as long as the oxygen levels were sufficient, i had happy fish, despite the 35-40 ppm co2.
> 
> and thank you tom for the iron levels, i just realised for the last year my csm+b batch was way too weak, i was only dosing 0.15 ppm per dose... i probably didn't notice a deficiency due to having black flourite in many of my tanks. Could explain the weak growth i've had with some plants in the tank without the layer of flourite in the substrate


+1.

0.15ppm as Fe proxy should be enough, unless things are really growing well, it's not likely you need more than this 3-5x a week...............you might add say a 3:1 mix of CMS : DTPA sequestrene Fe by volume to the mix.

If your tap water is real soft, say KH under 3-4, then use Ferrous gluconate at that rate, or do a mix of CMSTPA:Fe gluconate at: 4:1:1.
Mix with warm/hot water.........well, then add say 20-30mls of Excel to this 1 liter mix.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

after visiting CRS fan the first time i saw first had at just what sort of surface agitation you can get away with and still have great co2 levels. Now all my tanks have the surface agitated to the point where anymore the surface will break. Scum is only an issue on my tank that experienced a massive crypt melt recently. Since then i've taken out my spray bar, removed all dead plant matter i've found, and the scum layer never fully forms to cover the whole surface.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> +1.
> 
> 0.15ppm as Fe proxy should be enough, unless things are really growing well, it's not likely you need more than this 3-5x a week...............you might add say a 3:1 mix of CMS : DTPA sequestrene Fe by volume to the mix.
> 
> ...


almost all of our tap water registers on hardness tests with the first drop  The joys of the greater vancouver region. So i use kent RO right and ph stable. I sit around 5-6 GH, and 4-5 KH from both being below the scale of the hardness test.

I have about 1 weeks of doses left on my csm+b bottle, so i changed the mix to bring me just under 0.4 ppm of iron per dose (i write mix + doses per tank on every bottle). Since i only have smaller tanks, i use a 250 mL bottle to prevent fungus from growing, Normally i put 5 mL of metricide in the bottle to prevent mold.


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## neoh (Apr 22, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> Trick: also have high O2, then they do not have issues.
> 
> I have a nice surface skimmer and wet/dry, since O2 is independent of the CO2 concentration, eg one does NOT push the other out of the tank/solution.............I have much more wiggle room and can also measure CO2 accuracyly.
> 
> ...


I've always used canister filters specifically to eliminate surface agitation. But of course, you can't have proper O2 exchange without surface agitation. My understanding is you have to sacrifice one for the other. I'll have to rethink my methods, as I can never get the proper co2 levels I need without endangering my fish.

What do you keep in your wet/dry? And what surface skimmer is that you use?


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

the over flow box should take care of the skimming


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

neven said:


> almost all of our tap water registers on hardness tests with the first drop  The joys of the greater vancouver region. So i use kent RO right and ph stable. I sit around 5-6 GH, and 4-5 KH from both being below the scale of the hardness test.
> 
> I have about 1 weeks of doses left on my csm+b bottle, so i changed the mix to bring me just under 0.4 ppm of iron per dose (i write mix + doses per tank on every bottle). Since i only have smaller tanks, i use a 250 mL bottle to prevent fungus from growing, Normally i put 5 mL of metricide in the bottle to prevent mold.


Same type of tap we have all along the West coast till you get about little farther than 1/2 way down CA, then they get desert sludge........

I'd use the same recipe I use really, the Fe gluconate is good/only used for a KH of 4-5 or less, then ETDA is good for maybe 6 and less and then DTPA is good for most all KH's.

DTPA will last a few days, ETDA a few hours and Fe Gluc maybe 1-4 hours.
Dosing traces is a subtle effect, they are essential, but then again, they are traces........


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

neoh said:


> I've always used canister filters specifically to eliminate surface agitation. But of course, you can't have proper O2 exchange without surface agitation. My understanding is you have to sacrifice one for the other. I'll have to rethink my methods, as I can never get the proper co2 levels I need without endangering my fish.
> 
> What do you keep in your wet/dry? And what surface skimmer is that you use?


This is what happens when folks think less is better, or more is better, there's a balance between these things and some well, ............common sense that needs added.

We have a tendency to assume that these things are absolutes or rigid in many ways, and they are not nor should be.

Rather than "either/or" dicotomy........I think more in terms of a ying and yang balance between things. If it were just plants, then it does not matter nearly as much and you can add lots and lots of CO2.

I use bioballs/various media, this is just to break up the water in the sealed wet/dry section.......so if the CO2 degasses there, it has nowhere to go. So the chamber is nothing more than a large CO2 reactor chamber really.

Now some air/O2 gets pulled into this same area and also, helps and increases O2 exchange, like the CO2, the O2 has nowhere else to go except dissolve into the water, since the saturation is always near or at saturation, O2 easily moves into the water. Only when the plants are really doing well............will the O2 get higher than 100%, but like the CO2, when it does degas, the O2 ends up in the chamber and nowhere else to go except back into the water.

I use open cell sponge for media downstream and rinse these after 2-4 months. Then return.

I might use carbon or purigen etc.
I have the heater in here and the CO2 addition.

So the only thing is the return at the top of the tank and the overflow.
Not much else. The surface skimming takes the scum layer off, and also takes the poorest CO2 water, gets those pesky floating leaves and whatnot.

I use a CPR overflow.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

The right side is going to get a rework this weeke/end etc.

I'll move the Red pantanal one row over next to the large Erio type 3 which recovered nicely away from hungry Fire shrimp, we will see if it stays in good shape or not.

Then the Tonina will move to the Pantanal's spot.









Not sure what to do with the Tonina Lotus blossom, I like the plant, but cannot keep it close to the normal Tonina(which is a better fit for this tank in general).
T. lotus blossom is a neat type however, so I'm very relucant to part with it.

I have some error in a plant order, I was shipped A gracilius but got Nesaea crassilius, which is frankly rarer and a very nice red plant, so I may move the L peruiesis out and over the far L and add the Nesaea in that spot to allow it to fill in nice and fully. Then eventually get the Ammannia for the rear(I can fill in back there with most anything really).

This will add another Red row and keep with the motif of every other one red and different leaf shape and texture.

The new bulbs have turned the D diandra very red. I have some H hottoniifolia in the rear corner, but I might just remove it and allow the weird bright green plant I keep forgetting the name of (genus starts with a "P"). the grouping got too small I feel and "collectortisy".

The wood is new and I've yet to reposition this side, but I shall in the week or so. The wood will soon blend in well with the other wood and I need to replant the UG on that side, it's about 4" deep right now.



















The corner has the Red lower growing hygro which is a nice low maintenance plant. It'll take a month or two to fill in in the darker corner.

I'll need to thin some thing over on the Far Left side also, but most of the species will still stay as is.

2 biggest issues are if/where to keep: Downoi and the Lotus Blossom.
2 very nice plant species I'd rather keep.

If they can find a suitable home, I'm 80-90% of the way there, then the rest is just pruning and less moving stuff around and trying out various species.

BTW, light is only on for 7 hours, and it takes about 1 hour for the 2x54 W to come on and hit 100%, then the other 6 bulbs come on and it takes them another 1 hour to hit 100%, then at the end, both sets slowly drop off over 1 hour from 100% down to 0%.

So the lights are only on full blast for 5 hours, the CO2 comes on when the 1st pair is warming up, so it's cranked well when the full set starts to fire up.
The CO2 goes off about 45 min before the last bit of light hits the plants.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Type 1 and type 3 Erio setaceum:









The problem ATM Right hand side:


















the Tonina lotus blossom needs to grow out and I can trim off the ratty lower parts, some with the lower stems on the regular Tonina, then I need to allow the Red Pantanal to fill in that row fully.

I'm considering replacing the Gloss with the Downoi and allowing the Downoi to fatten up and make a green triangle. Gloss is a bit more work and stays lower in general, nice contrast here. But that was never the original intent either. Downoi is a nice easy plant that would make a nice contrast as well in this same spot.

The last thing is the Nesaea in the rear and the Ammannia gracilius which I have not yet located. I'll get some and make some changes in the shape of the groups in the rear.

Otherwise, as long as the shrimp do not eat the Erios, I'm pretty close to having things stable and where I want.

Then it's trim trim trim and wait for the right timing.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

looks great! Cant really notice the tonina lotus bottoms in pictures atleast  Do tonina lotus blossoms have the same dislike as the regular tonina for water harder than 2-3 degrees? Because of the lack of growth in my tonina, the shrimp are always grazing on it which might be weakening it further.

are you entering this in a photo contest, is that what the right timing is about?


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

I do not enter contest, I started the hobby long before those where around except local club home shows, but it was more about sharing, not competition of judging.

I also do not judge
No pay, lots of work, everyone is pissed at you, sorry, there's no joy in the hobby there It's for my own self. I would not do it otherwise.
The only competition was NBAT, and I'm still not at that level just yet

This tank is not like the standard Dutch rules.

It's a mixture of several things.

Tonina lotus blossom is about only 1/3 the size of normal Tonina. And it branches better and forms more side shoots. I suppose it hates higher KH's but I've done well with these species at 6KH.

This is an old tank where I cut the tap which was 14KH and the Gh 17( 52ppm Mg!!) with 50% RO:


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## stonedaquarium (Jun 11, 2011)

tom... how did you plant your UG to get them to carpet that well?


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

stonedaquarium said:


> tom... how did you plant your UG to get them to carpet that well?


Just plugs, you can see the before and after here:


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

the side got redone and the Gloss rug removed today:



















The stems will grow and slowly march forward and fill the space.

Not sure what to do with the Tonina lotus blossom, it's the smaller Tonina in the front.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow! Absolutely amazing!


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

I am going to sell the smaller Tonina lotus on the far right and then fill in some spots, sell off some of the Erio type 1 normal setaceum etc.

This should free up some space, the wall of Red macrandra in the midground rear where the wood divides the midground will look interesting. 
I replanted and this should fill in later in 2-3 weeks really nicely.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Did some hacking and moving:




























I'll end up with some thick groups in a couple of weeks, but things are moving along. I moved some R macrandra so it will grow into a red mauve wall, I'll fatten up the R wallichii in the corner. Removed a few stragglers: Nesaea crassiculius, Mermaid weed, Crypt parva. I might add the C. parva back, but perhaps on the other Right hand side.

I moved the Tonina's on opposite sides of the tank so they do not clash. Managed to save them, but needed to remove or move the C parva. The stumps I have left after the sales will grow in pretty well in this location. They also look good against the Fissidens and I plan to keep them fairly short and make it a nice thick forest of stems, but not so tall, they distract or hide the fissidens or Erios behind them.

Some of the groups are a bit messy, but as they grow out and get another trim or two, these will even up nicely.

I'm very close to having the species and their locations finalized.
It has taken awhile and there's still some growing and trimming to do be done to fill the spots in better. I did finally get some Ammannia gracilius from a local so no matter what, I have the species set I want/need. The Ammannia will look awesome where I have it planned in the rear. A much better choice than the mermaid weed or the Nesaea.

The only other plant, also the same local guy has it, is the N pedicillata, a nicer red/yellow color might lend well to some spots.

I also found a good holding spot for all those errant pieces of Fissidens moss that I keep finding everywhere: the tops of the driftwood that poke out, they can easily lay on that, get enough water, a ton of light and grows very well there. After 3-4 weeks, I'll pull them off and sell the moss. Simple, clean, easy and out of the way.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

One thing that has always intrigued me Tom, is why you have no "floaties" after a big trim. I can never manage that. Do you skim around the tank with a net, or does the overflow deal well with that (much better than a canister filter would)?


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> One thing that has always intrigued me Tom, is why you have no "floaties" after a big trim. I can never manage that. Do you skim around the tank with a net, or does the overflow deal well with that (much better than a canister filter would)?


Both, I remove any left over plant material etc and the skimmer gets dumped a few times a week. You can "see" the work that is being done and the aqua soil is all moved around etc. Tank is cloudy for a day or two after, but the tank is overall, clean. No algae, no junk etc.
Once the tank settles in and I'm not moving things as much, then the photo examples of near complete design can be done.

That's maybe 8-10 weeks off.

I'm basically learning to keep this group of plants together and changing things to get the best combo.
Learning which trimming method, location that's easiest to trim, color and textural mix takes time to get the best solution.
No right or wrong answers other than your opinion.

Some of the things you learn here, can be applied elsewhere in the future.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

A few good trims and grow out and the front rows will be up to snuff at least. I need to grow out the Ammannia more in the rear, but the R macrandra is coming along well, the older lower leaves are pretty pale, but a few trims later, they will be all red and make a nice mid wall in the back there.

One trick is to allow the plants to grow up and hit the surface for about a week or so, then replant. I have not yet done this with this tank, but plan to later.

The Downoi is making a come back, all I had were trimmed off bottom stumps, so it's come a long long way and will fill in decently.

Some of the other plants will grow in nicely and I've found using a turkey baster works well to clean the Erio cinreums' middle parts and keep those cleaner.

I am pondering adding the Red serpae tetras to this tank and moving the Rainbows. The tetras will eat the smaller shrimp for sure though, which I thought the rainbows would, but..they have not yet.

You can see part of the wall of Red macrandra and where I am going with this idea.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

This looks amazing. Whatever fish go in here will be happy fish!


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

crazy72 said:


> This looks amazing. Whatever fish go in here will be happy fish!


They are all chickens, unless being fed.

Then they hide right after.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)




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## neven (May 15, 2010)

wow, the contrasts are amazing, how is the growth rate in terms of trimming with that many stems?


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Growth rate is high in this tank. I do not spend much time trimming really though. I trim a little frequently. 
Might spend 15 min trimming once a week?

I have tried a no# of ways to trim and then chose the best one that maximizes the sales of cuttings and with the general look after trimming + good recovery.
Recovery is king, then sales of cuttings, and finally general look(but recovery is part of that also).


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Got back after a week away, the tank has....well grown a wee bit:0

I'll post some tomorrow etc.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Before I left for a week, the tank looked like this:

















Well, had about 6-8" growth of many of the species after 1 week away.










45 min later after trimming:


















Some of the Erios did not like less ferts this week and decided to flower.............supposedly the kiss of death for them.

FTS prior to trim:









Low grow red hygro is doing nice in the corner under low light.









Erio type 3 took off since I hacked everything else back good. Even have extra to sell.










I have not trimmed this plant yet, might wait another 3-4 days. This is after I trimmed everything else, then said furrrgetit, doing a water change(so the water is hazy here):










Took pics, then did a trim, took more pics, then a water change, then took pics again.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Made some changes, still gots more to do.
This is what it looks like after I trim and mid and background plants.

Ideally, the green plants in the far back would be 3-4" taller and then the rest of the R macrandra would be okay, then trim the color rows in the front down about 2" lower.


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

Wow the tank is looking good as usual!!

I have always wondered, what are the plants in mid to foreground on the left side that look like puff balls/ hedgehogs? I am struggling to find a name, or any information on them. I really like their look


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Eriocaulon cinereum.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

I uprooted all the Erios and the Tonia Lotus blossom, all the other Tonina, all the pantanal, all the D diandra, some of the other groups also.

So I did a lot of work on the tank actually, so it's pretty clear less than 1 hour later. If someone think they can do all that and make it clear with ADA AS, I'd like to see them try:thumbsup:

I raised the Pellia up and it is on the Left side in front of the Ech augustifolia. "vesuvius". 
I need to figure out how to better manage the R macrandra or reduce the stand. I'll need to figure out a better location for the R wallichii I think. Hydrothrix grows well in the back but parts melt due to a lack of light after a lot of growth starts to block the light.

The Erios on the right side and Tonina lotus blossom are much better now.
I think I've produced 3x more Tonina lotus blossom vs the normal type, which I've only managed to double over nearly 2x longer time.
So Tonina lotus blossom is a better plant for cultivation and sales. I have nearly 50 stems/shoots now. About 40 for the Pantanal.

I'm also thinking about doing something different with the Downoi and putting Elatine triandra like I had the Gloss before.
But I need a good home for the Downoi before I go that direction.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

You can see the Bun's in the rear behind the wood, they are small now, but in a few months, they will look pretty nice. There are 8 different types.










There are now 10 planted streets in this tank.


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## stonedaquarium (Jun 11, 2011)

plantbrain, how did you initially plant your UG... i had some UG but they seem not to be rooting very well. any tips? you can give ? Thanks


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

New Canon G12 camera:



















For UG, I just plant plugs, maybe 2cm in dia and then just wait. I've replanted it this way maybe 4 times now.


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## stonedaquarium (Jun 11, 2011)

thanks... how long did it take before it started to take off?


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## Algae Beater (Apr 21, 2010)

amazing, as per usual  

thanks for sharing


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Presently and the red are changes to be made the next week or so.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Ludwigia pilosa needs to fill and color up, I have a stem of L inclinata orange that will take some time to fill in, if anyone has some for sale, let me know.
L pilosa is rare, so it'll be a couple of months before this plant fills in nicely.

I'm not happy really with the lack of red color on this right side. Downoi is out of place really, but I think if I allow it to grow out, then cull the small stuff and sell that and keep a more orderly row of larger plants, that will make it look better.
The Pellia is cramped really against the UG and the Erio. I have not tied down the Fissidens on the 3 new pieces of small wood on the Right side there.

I moved the P stellata up and it looks good with the yellow and purple coloration. Likely will keep it there. More R wallichii will fill in the back, I might replace the normal R macrandra with the "japan" version.
You can see the Anubias and Buce's spot behind the wood. I was going to work these on those 3 fingers of wood in the front Right side, but I think it's better back here really.

The Tonina Lotus blossom is a much better choice than the normal type.
I moved the Ammannia gracilius to the rear, removed the Hydrothrix entirely.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Front Left piece of wood can be moved and will be to trim off some of the Downoi

Below, I'll add a few more L pilosa(2 small rows) next to these 2.


























I plan on adding more Rotala wallichii in the back and allowing the P stellata to fill in there, with the P sedoies coming around. 
I am going to make the Downoi a zigzag pattern and lop off some of the extra plants on the Left bulge there. This will provide more room.

I wish I could find a good home for the Erio goias.

But not in this tank at least right now.
So that will be removed. I'll work with some smaller Erios from now on. These will go next to the UG and Downoi in the front.
The open space where the Erios are now?

That will be a W shaped rug of Elatine triandra.

I have some R macrandra Japan but it's so similar to the normal, I'll wait and see.

On the side view, you can see the L pilosa, this is a nice plant and has reddened up, but it's never going to achieve a real strong red contrast I'm after.
Sort of a nice orangy color....I'll add another 2-3 tops in this section

I have a few options coming in this week for the red plant in the Left side that's open.
A ruby colored Persicaria 'Ruby' praetermissa, L breviceps, and Ludwigia senegalaensis.
Obviously with more room, the dwarf lily bulbs would be an easy no brainer.
They other idea was adding a lace plant in here to scramble things up with a nice larger leaf rossette plant.

I've gotten much better at replanting UG also. This is the best method to max cutting sales and recovery after pruning.
I planted my 70 Gal woodagumi with UG for this reason.

More work and ideas to explore.


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## PaulCheung (Apr 18, 2011)

Absolutely stunning.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

I moved the Erios and planted basically what will be 3 triangles on Elatine triandra

I might use some scraps of Starougyne purple to wedge between the pennwort and the Tonina.
Not sure yet, might look too busy once I'm done.

Below you can see the difference the tank makes after 5 days from the sellers, the 2 rear plants are acclimated after 5 days and keep getting nicer color, the one on the bottom that are green, I just got those.



















One of my little Double trunk elelphant noses.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Here's today, I trimmed then did a good sized water change:










I added Elatine hydropiper, "micro" Gloss.

E. triandra has filled in well and will make a nice bright green rug.

Still got a mess till things grow out more on the Left side.

Water change, takes about 35 min or just enough to clean the prefilter, catch shrimp, clean or move anything around.










E triandra close up










Lobelia is okay, I've had extensive use and used it in the past.
I'm more inclined to go with Downoi for that look. Hyptis is okay, but I like A repens better.
Lizard tail is larger leaf though.

I might reconsider that old school lizard tail.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

The Ludwigia inclinata on the Left is coming along nicely.
Another 2 weeks and it'll be where I want.

New E hydropiper in the front should be a nicer alternative to HC. Just planted, so it'll be a another 2weeks or so before I see how it does in the tank at 26C.

I could also go with "mini" Erio cinereum in that same spot also. Hopefully the mini will stay small if I do decide to go back to Erios anytime soon.

The downoi spot you can see now what I had in mind. Those are the scraggy runts of the batch that like last time, ended up nice and fat and worth 80$ for the group after 2 months of growth.

I might add the Bacopa lanigera where the Downoi is now, that's the idea anyways, the contrast between the Bacopa and the Ludwigia Red and the orangy inclinata is a very nice effect. I may end up placing the Bacopa in the rear some where off to the far Left also if I decide on the Downoi.
On the far Right, I'll allow the Starougyne "purple" to grow out some and then make a small patch of it to separate from the Tonina lotus blossom, the colors are a bit similar, so this will add some division between them.

I also have some Mini Pellia I need to see if I can add to help divide things between the groups, or I might add that to the wood somewhere. The Mini Pellia would also make an effective barrier between the 3 foreground weeds that tend to be bright green. Or dark green fingers of it tied to small short branches protruding into the bright green E triandra and E hydropiper.

Still waiting for the Bacopa lanigera to arrive, few folks have done scapes with it.

I'll raise the Bolbitus up so it wraps around the back of the wood a bit more, due to the timing on the trim, it looks bare, but as the Myrio matogrossense grows outward......it fills this space in pretty fast, in 1-2 weeks, it'll be packed and in need of a trim again.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I really like the L. inclinata. Really sets off that side of the tank against the UG.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I really like the L. inclinata. Really sets off that side of the tank against the UG.


Yes, it's a good contrast match up.
It's also a weed so it'll fill in and be able to have nice thick plantings.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

The Bacopa lanigera will straighten up and become larger and whitish.

Just redid and moved some things, so it's cloudy.


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## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

This is the most beautiful tank I have ever seen. If I were a fish I would be happy to live there.


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## PlantedAquariums (Mar 24, 2012)

that's a beautiful tank, great work.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Nice new growth is coming in faster than I anticipated.

A little over 3 weeks worth of growth from the E triandra, not bad.


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## enzotesta (Dec 20, 2011)

It's amazing how people are so into the aquascaping....why bother putting fish in there...looks amazing!...lol


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> A little over 3 weeks worth of growth from the E triandra, not bad.


Looks great, and super fast growth...just like HC with good light and CO2 I guess. Nice looking plant. Is it easy to find/grow? I had not heard of it before.


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Here is a pic of the Ealtine, which the triandra was plants about 3 weeks ago now, as you can see, growth is impressive. The E. hydropiper has also grown in nicely........and will form a solid rug in another week or two I'd estimate.
E hydropiper is a nice new HC alternative so I'm excited about it and I have a good sized patch.

I was worried it might do well due to higher temps some had mentioned it was a cold water plant only etc. That does not seem to be the case.










Here's a high res slice shot.










No, not yet easy to find, seems easy to me to grow, others have failed though. So I expect to see folks with plenty of it after 1-2 years, another stem O the month.


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## waterbox (Nov 26, 2011)

At the risk of sounding redundant, what a beautiful aquarium!


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## plantbrain (May 12, 2010)

Well, starting to get a little more organized at this point in time...........
Fix the corners and the rest is just trim and wait for the weeds to grow.




























I will likely try some Rotala macrandra or some type similar in this hole in the corner.
In the opposite corner, I'll whack the Rotala wallichii and remove it. Then allow the Rotala " vietnam" to fill in.

The UG is still filling in and rooting well, it tends to grow up, then a bit ratty, needs a little trimming etc, then it starts to make a nice dense rug after wards, check back in 3-4 weeks and it should be nice and dense. 
Many seem to think it's not doing well at this stage, but a little patience rewards well.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Looks great, thanks for the update Tom!


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

+1 on thanking for the update tom! love seeing your tanks


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

That's a lovely looking tank. My talent is near zero when it comes to planting in and out of the water.


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

Watch out they'll want to film Avatar 2 in your tank. Awesome.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Stunning tank, as always


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