# What does iit mean when discus has white poo?



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I placed my 2" discus in a bare bottom tank with a sponge filter, temp at 88F, and added some aquarium salt and tetra parasite guard.
I cannot find prazipro in my local area.
Parasite guard consists of Praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metronidazole and acriflavine.
I like the combination of praziquantel and metronidazole which I believe should eb effective agaisnt parasite, and I think the acriflavine is there to help prevent secondary bacterial infection, not sure what diflubenzuron is for.
One of my discus (I had 6) turned really dark and started darting around the tank, clamped fin, listless and then it dies before I could get any medication for him. So, I decided to treat the remaining 5 for parasite.
I also noticed some white dots on the tail and fin, prossibly ick, on quite a few of them.
Anyway, so I added the medication for the first day and one fo the discu turned very dark then a very long white thingy came out from his bottom. I took that out and changed 50% water.
This morning, they were swimming and no one was dark. I changed water again and added another dose.
They turned dark, then I noticed several of them have some white poo coming from their bottom but they are not long.
I gave them a bit of food but they showed no interest.
What does white poo means? Should I siphone that out once I see them, are they dead worms?


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

They might be. Next time if u want prazipro, you know where i m


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks Charles.
So...if they have white poo does that mean they have parasite or is there any other cause?
Are they pooing white poo because of the medication and if the poo stop being white does that mean the parasite is gone...
Thsi is the first time I ahve to deal with something like this and it is all very confusing.
Thank you.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Sounds to me like flagellates from stress. Not likely parasites. If they are turning dark they aren't happy with your water. They don't like high nitrates and they don't like ph swings and they don't like bioload. Crank your jest to 90 and do at least 50 percent wc a day till they start smiling and getting back to not dark. 
Keep our ph even and if you live around here buffer your water to stay stable. Ph neutral would be good or equilibrium. 
All discus have flagellates and when they get stressed they go out of control to large numbers. Stomach infection. It could be just them dumping their stomach lining from stress or flagellates. For that you use metronidazole. 400 to 500 mg per 10 gallons daily. High heat. Do a 50 percent wc daily and re-add the full dosage as metro dissipates within 12 hours. But first I'd work on your water and crank the heat up and see if they calm down , go lighter and will eat. 
Do you have them in a tank with substrate and high nitrates? Discus like their nitrates under 5. High nitrates and bouncing ph will make them go dark.
Small 2 inch discus don't handle bioload, nitrates or ph bounces well. They have a very short window of time before they runt out. A few bad weeks and they stunt.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

April said:


> Sounds to me like flagellates from stress. Not likely parasites. If they are turning dark they aren't happy with your water. They don't like high nitrates and they don't like ph swings and they don't like bioload. Crank your jest to 90 and do at least 50 percent wc a day till they start smiling and getting back to not dark.
> Keep our ph even and if you live around here buffer your water to stay stable. Ph neutral would be good or equilibrium.
> All discus have flagellates and when they get stressed they go out of control to large numbers. Stomach infection. It could be just them dumping their stomach lining from stress or flagellates. For that you use metronidazole. 400 to 500 mg per 10 gallons daily. High heat. Do a 50 percent wc daily and re-add the full dosage as metro dissipates within 12 hours. But first I'd work on your water and crank the heat up and see if they calm down , go lighter and will eat.
> Do you have them in a tank with substrate and high nitrates? Discus like their nitrates under 5. High nitrates and bouncing ph will make them go dark.
> Small 2 inch discus don't handle bioload, nitrates or ph bounces well. They have a very short window of time before they runt out. A few bad weeks and they stunt.


I have them in a bare bottom tank with nothing on the bottom. I change 2 to 3 times water a day.
I now just use tap water with prime with no Ph buffer but a bit of equilibrium.
I have one sponge filter, and also one internal filter from nova. I added the internal filter as I want to make sure there is enough O2 in the tank.
I live in Richmond.
Ammonia and Nitrite and Nitrate are all zero.
Tetra Parasire Guard has metronidazole...should I buy another medication or keep using it?
I have been keeping a close eye on them and once I see poo in the water I siphon them out.
They are nto alwasy dark, only sometimes. Usually after a weater change.
Thanks.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

They seem to be worst now than before I added medication.
I suspect they might be having some kind of bacterial infection rather than parasite.
They were probably not very well before (never really eat and like to hide all the time) but now I am starting to see slim/mucous on their fins and they are not really moving around at all. 
My water should nto have any problem as I change water very frequently and they alwasy test zero on all three accounts. My Ph is about 6.7 or so off the tap, my temp is 88, ammonia nitrite nitrate all zero.
I did a 90% water change this afternoon then changed 50% just now before added another dose.
I also added one teaspoon of API aquarium salt.
I am using a barebottom 10 gallon.
I dont have any medication other than tetra parasite guard.
I do not have much if any experience with this.
They are very dark, all staying on the bottom, not moving, have slim over their fins, not interested in food at all, and I think their eyes are kind of pop out as well. but I do nto see any more white poo.
Should I try Furan-2, or triple sulfa, or tetracycline, or somethign else?
I will go buy some medications tomorrow. This is the first time my fish look this sick. 
Very depressing and frustrating.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Aprils's advice is very good and it's what I would do if they were my fish. If you see ich on your discus then the temperature is too low. Low temperature can also be enough stress to turn their poop white. Get the temperature up into the low 90's. Changing as much water as you can everyday will be the best thing that you can do for them. Water changes are the best medicine for discus.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thank you once again Rick and April for sharing with me your valuable experience and advice.
I am doing a lot of water change per day, at least 2-3 times. 
I just checked on them and a few of them are not that black any more but some of them are still quite black. Some still look very miserable. Their side fins are clamped to their body and only come off their bodies occassionally--sometimes only one side is off and the other side would stay clamped.
They are also staying on the bottom of the tank 99% of the time.
Should I try some medication in case they have a bacterial infection, or should I continue with parasite treatment?
I have raised the temp above 90.
Thank you.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Whee did you get them? All from one source? You didn't get from two places?
Go easy on the meds. That will make things worse for little guys. Unless they have a slime
Coat disease...why I'm asking if all came from one source. Are they huddling and leaning? 
Discus don't get ick unless they were kept at a low temp . Did you buy then
From a store? 
Pic would help. 
I think if you keep going with the wcs and get the heat to 90 and keep the ph very even they will come around.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

April said:


> Whee did you get them? All from one source? You didn't get from two places?
> Yes, all from the same place. From fishdragon.Go easy on the meds. That will make things worse for little guys. Unless they have a slime
> Coat disease...why I'm asking if all came from one source. Are they huddling and leaning?
> They are kind of all just staying on the bottom, some are leaning against each other and some are staying alone in his own corner.
> ...


Thanks fo rthe help. I have changed 50% of water and did nto add any more med, there are lots of white slim looking things in the water, they are quite short and thin. I am not sure f they are poo or slim. They dont look good at all.
They are all very dark and listless.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Sounding more and more
Like disease and slime coat issues. Put two tablespoons of salt in .


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I have done a 90% change just now as one of them died. He darted around liek crazy for half a minute then just died. After that his skin started to show some dark and light patches ebfore I removed him.
I have added 2 tea spoon of salt but they look very bad.
Right now, I have the following medication: melachite green, TC tetracycline, parasite guard...should I use anything other than salt?
I am attaching soem pictures of them when they were in my planted Co2 tank, and now in the bare bottom tank for your refeence.
Please help....
I dont want to lose any more of them, feels like an outbreak or something, lost 2 in a day.

Background: I had 6 of them in a planted tank with pressurized Co2, T5HO lights with EI dosing. They were very shy and did not really eat, alwasy hide behind a big rock...My water was changed once or twice a day in the planted tank, my filter was an eheim professional II which was meant for 90 gallon (my tank is only 33 gallon).
I was concerned that they did not seem excited with food and that they were alwasy hiding, posted a thread and asked for help. Three days after they wrere in the planted tank I moved them to a bare bottom tank (10 gallon, sponge filter) and perform 2 or more water changes a day.
First day they seem more interested in food (frozen bloodworm I got from the breeder) but then they started to get worst and worst. At that time they had no white poo but acted very listless and was really afraid of the light. They also turned black.
I was worried about parasite/fluke so I dosed parasite guar. After the furst dose they had white poo and one excreted out a very long white thin thingy.
Things just went downhill from there.
2 days later 2 of them are dead and the rest of them looked really horrible with white slim on the fin, and one is having problem staying upright and is just floating sideway on the surface. They are very black and act very sick.
I ahve inreased the temp to 90 and added salt and performing 50% + water changes several times a day. I have changed the sponge filter to a AC 50 with carbon to take out any medications that might have been left in the tank. The sponge ont he sponge filter is really gross filled with silm.
I suspect there is a virus or bacterial infection going on. I want to know what I should do to save them.
Thank you.


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## MELLO (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks like your juvies are stressed out based on your pictures. Don't keep dumping anymore meds on them. Just keep doing waterchange and salt. Don't feed them until you notice them getting better. Put lots of aeration in the tank. The stress triggered something that caused your fish to be sick. At this point you just have to monitor them.
Based on the picture I've seen they probably got stress from their new environment.(tank size, tankmates decor etc.) Probably the tank is to big for them. Your doing the right thing by putting them in a 10g. Treat and grow them out in the 10g before putting them back in the main tank.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

MELLO said:


> Looks like your juvies are stressed out based on your pictures. Don't keep dumping anymore meds on them. Just keep doing waterchange and salt. Don't feed them until you notice them getting better. Put lots of aeration in the tank. The stress triggered something that caused your fish to be sick. At this point you just have to monitor them.
> Based on the picture I've seen they probably got stress from their new environment.(tank size, tankmates decor etc.) Probably the tank is to big for them. Your doing the right thing by putting them in a 10g. Treat and grow them out in the 10g before putting them back in the main tank.


Thank you. 
You mean they are not dying and if I just keep changing my water wuith salt they migth make it?
They just look so bad I feel like I should do someting to save them or else they will die.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Small discus don't do co2 etc. keep doing wcs and salt as mello said. No
More meds . Some of those parasite
Meds eyc and combo
Meds
Are too hard on discus. Just cheque your ph in the water your adding.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks April. I am checking the water everytime I added them, and they are always around 6.7 or so. When i added medication I noticed that the Ph raised to 7.3 or so I am not sure why.
But anyway, now I add tap water with equilibrium and salt and prime.
You mentioned neutral buffer, does that buffer to PH 7 all the time...is 7 a good Ph to have for discus? I notice that they can also remove the chlorine and such so no prime will be needed...how about discus buffer? What is the difference and which one will you recommend? I dont want to do somethign too complicated like mixing more than 1 buffer as I am doing so many water change.
Thank you os much for your help. I will not add any med and will keep up with wc.They are now looking a bit better, the one that was lying sideway on the water surface is now swimming with the rest of them. One has changed back to normal color but the rest are still black. Dont see any more slim on the fin liek before. You have been a super great help. Thank you


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## MELLO (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish rookie said:


> Thank you.
> You mean they are not dying and if I just keep changing my water wuith salt they migth make it?
> They just look so bad I feel like I should do someting to save them or else they will die.


Well I don't know if they can make it or not. But adding meds to them might be stressing them even more. Don't turn on the lights and crank the heat like what April said. They might be to young to be expose to all these meds you are throwing at them and making them even weaker. Next time you buy 2" discus I suggest you put them in a smaller tank 20 gallon and in a group of 6-8. Grow them out till maybe 3.5" then put them in your community tank. They should be a little stronger tougher by then. 
Also make sure you get a healthy stock from the start.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

MELLO said:


> Well I don't know if they can make it or not. But adding meds to them might be stressing them even more. Don't turn on the lights and crank the heat like what April said. They might be to young to be expose to all these meds you are throwing at them and making them even weaker. Next time you buy 2" discus I suggest you put them in a smaller tank 20 gallon and in a group of 6-8. Grow them out till maybe 3.5" then put them in your community tank. They should be a little stronger tougher by then.
> Also make sure you get a healthy stock from the start.


Thank you so much.
Another one darted around the tank like crazy then died, so now only 3 left.
I have a 25 gallon tank that I can put them in but I thinkf or now I will keep them in this 10 gallon and just keep up with water change and see what happens.

Edited: another 1 just died, so now only 2 left. That is 4 died in a couple days.


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## MELLO (Apr 21, 2010)

Just do your best. That happens to all of us. Charge it to experience and learn from it.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Although this is very depressing but I have developed a speical passion for this round flat fish that I don't believe I can never rid of. I have learned some important lessons and will continue to learn and hopefully one day can raise some healthy and happy discus.
Thank you so much fro everyone's help. I feel quite depressed because of their situation but at the same time I am very tahnkful and encouraged by all the valuable advice received here from all of you, thank you.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Just a quick update.
After doing 4-5 times 50% water change a day with 2 teaspoons of aquarium salt while keeping temperature up at 90 F and Ph consistent, the remaining 2 discus are now no longer dark and they are swimming around.
I have just dropped some New Life Spectrum sinking pellets and they actually took a few bites (they have not been eating since this incident) so I am pretty happy.
One is more active than the other but they are both showing more energy.
They might also be feeling strseed becaue there are only 2 of them now. 
I am using a HOB aqueclear filter and I have just celaned the filter with boiling water to make sure there is no bacteria/virus/parasite left in any corner and I am only inserting filter floss in the compartment which I will change frenquently. I dont want to have anythign that might keep any organic waste in the tank. 
I havw taken the sponge filter away and will soak the spong with bleach.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Sounds like you turned things around. Use theses guys for a learning curve.
If you get more get a group of 6 . New tank, don't mix in case they are carrying pathogens .


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

About these two, unfortunately I have lost the battle. I feel so bad that I was not able to take good care of them. I could have done a better job...


May be I should have tried to deworm them earlier on? I am not sure. One of them I believe had worm as he excreted out a very long white thin thingy and he never really ate anything from day 1...perhaps I stressed them out tomuch in the beginning, too... In hindsight, I definitely should not have tried to put them in a planted Co2 tank; I should have chosen a batch of healthy guys in a big group in a bare bottom tank since day 1 and just keep my water clean with frenquent water change and my parameters consistent. I believe I weakened them also by dosing full dose of medication; should have tried high temp with salt first peraps?

Anyway, bleaching the tank and everything now.

I want to once again thank you so very much for all your help. I will remember all that I have learned and hopefully will one day become a good discus keeper. 

Thank you.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Rough start but I am sure you will be a good discus keeper. You just need to get set off on the right foot which I hope to help with. If you start with good stock and provide the correct parameters then it is mostly just a matter of keeping up on the feedings and water changes.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I agree. They may have
Been complimised
Before you got them. 
Talk to Rick he may have some to start you again. 
Discus once you get going right are very rewarding.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks...
Right now, I am running the filter (no media) with the heater and therometer in the tank with bleach and salt because I want to make sure I clean everything that I will be using for my next batch of discus. I am worried if I just wash the filter in bleach rather than running it the tubes might still be a bit dirty.
After bleaching the tank, how should I rinse the bleach completely? What is the best way to do it, please?
I want to make 100% sure the tank, filter, and so on are all clean and free of parasite/pathogen/bacteria and so on before I go visit Rick for some of his excellent discus. I am very excited about them but do not want to rush it.
Most importantly, I need to make sure all the bleach are cleaned out... 
Thank you.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish rookie said:


> Thanks...
> Right now, I am running the filter (no media) with the heater and therometer in the tank with bleach and salt because I want to make sure I clean everything that I will be using for my next batch of discus. I am worried if I just wash the filter in bleach rather than running it the tubes might still be a bit dirty.
> After bleaching the tank, how should I rinse the bleach completely? What is the best way to do it, please?
> I want to make 100% sure the tank, filter, and so on are all clean and free of parasite/pathogen/bacteria and so on before I go visit Rick for some of his excellent discus. I am very excited about them but do not want to rush it.
> ...


Let the tank run for 24 hours with the bleach. Then drain, rinse and dry everything. At that point you will be ready to set it up again.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Ditto. Once the tank and filter
Dry completely tr bleach diissipates. If your concerned add some
Prime tomorrow while it's running then drain and dry. 
When you go to ticks see if you can get a piece of sponge from him. That way you'd have bacteria and sponges from the same system. 
Maybe Rick can run a backup sponge ahead of time? If not he can punch me for suggesting it lol


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

You know...interesting you brought up the topic of friendly bacteria as I have been thinking about this for a while and could not really figure this out. 

If you change your water and wash your filter twice or more in a day, plus you wipe down your tank which is bare bottom, do you still have a colony of friendly bacteria in your tank?

If there is such a colony, where is it staying? 

Or does that mean such a colony is not needed for discus?


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## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

Fish rookie said:


> You know...interesting you brought up the topic of friendly bacteria as I have been thinking about this for a while and could not really figure this out.
> 
> If you change your water and wash your filter twice or more in a day, plus you wipe down your tank which is bare bottom, do you still have a colony of friendly bacteria in your tank?
> 
> ...


Good question, I thought the constant water changes where to remove the need for a bacterial colony. Then again I never cleaned the sponges.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish rookie said:


> You know...interesting you brought up the topic of friendly bacteria as I have been thinking about this for a while and could not really figure this out.
> 
> If you change your water and wash your filter twice or more in a day, plus you wipe down your tank which is bare bottom, do you still have a colony of friendly bacteria in your tank?
> 
> ...


In your case the beneficial bacteria will be living on the ceramic media in your filter. When you rinse the media do so in the water you are taking out of the aquarium, not in tap water because the chlorine in tap water is harmful to the bacteria. When you are doing 100% daily water changes you don't have to worry about having good bacteria but when the discus are bigger and you start backing off on the water changes that is when they are important.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I start off a new tank when I get a shipment with sponges I put through my washing machine with bleach. But...I know discus and I proceed very carefully with not overfeeding etc and watching for any skittishness etc which tells me the ph is sliding or ammonia is happening. 
For a new person to discus I'd say have a bit of beneficial bacteria and don't over rinse your filter until its running well. Clean the bottom, do the wcs, but let that bacteria colonize for awhile when you rinse just a gentle rinse in aquarium water in a bucket as Rick said.
A 10 gallon tank the water can change very fast. I'd go a 20 gallon tank to start.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

IceBlue said:


> Good question, I thought the constant water changes where to remove the need for a bacterial colony. Then again I never cleaned the sponges.


I am under the impression the frequent water change and the cleaning of filter is to remove as much organic material as possible and to keep all nitrite, ammonia zero and nitrate as close to zero as possible.

I read that sometimes a tank could have lots of friendly bacteria yet become a "nitrate factory" if orangic material is not removed quickly and frenquently.

Thanks for the answer Rick and April. 

Should I add some stability in the tank when I do my water change in the beginning?


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish rookie said:


> I am under the impression the frequent water change and the cleaning of filter is to remove as much organic material as possible and to keep all nitrite, ammonia zero and nitrate as close to zero as possible.
> 
> I read that sometimes a tank could have lots of friendly bacteria yet become a "nitrate factory" if orangic material is not removed quickly and frenquently.
> 
> ...


The fish constantly produce ammonia but with massive daily water changes it is never going to reach a level that will harm the discus. Discus don't do well with high levels of dissolved organics so yes it is important to remove as much organic waste as you can. Please don't add stability or anything else, discus don't like a bunch of "stuff" in their water. The only thing you should add is water conditioner to remove the chlorine.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks.
I have bleached the tank and filter, rinsed and dried them.
Right now, the tank is filled with tap water. I will be running it for a couple days. Filter is a h.o.b. aquaclear 50 with ceramic as media.
I will also be checking the temperature to make sure this heater is going to hold the temperature constant at 88F as I am using a 100W heater rather than the Odessea 200W that I was using.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Looking good


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