# Hands OFF the dog!



## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

Fair warning: this is a rant. 

I'm lucky enough to work in a dog friendly office. The mutt is snoozing away under the desk right now. However, the down side of this is that when I take her out and about for walks in downtown I seem to attract morons who think it's perfectly OK to try to touch her or try to have their kids pet her without asking. This isn't a cute little purse mutt, either. She's a big rottie/husky cross. She's well trained and socialized, but she's protective of me and can be standoffish with strangers, so I don't let strangers touch her without asking. It's a safety thing for her, as I don't trust your average member of the public to have any animal sense whatsoever. I don't mind letting people pat her if they ask first and wait to be introduced, but if you try to grab at her, I *will* stop you, and I may not be nice about it.

Today I took her for a long walk at lunch near Stanley Park and had no fewer than three idiots try to just come up and touch her without asking. One woman came up from *behind*, where the dog couldn't see her, with her hand out to pat, and got huffy when I stepped in said "please ask me before you touch her". Another guy let his kid come running up to her. Fortunately she's pretty child safe, but I'm still not willing to have random kids grabbing her, so I fended off junior with "never touch a strange dog! Always ask first!" and his dad caught up to us and reinforced it. Then there was Crazy Tourist Lady, who swooped on us going "Oooh, I wuvs wittle doggies!" (I quote here), and knelt down in front of the dog to try to kiss her. ARGH!!!!!

The junkies who hang out on in front of the detox centre up the street from my office have better sense than these idiots! THEY all ask politely before touching the dog, or at least just stretch a hand out for her to sniff rather than making a grab. You'd think most people would get the idea that a strange dog may not be friendly, but noooo...

Really, I don't go around grabbing at your kid, your car or the groceries you're carrying without asking...so keep your hands OFF the mutt unless you ask first and get the OK!!!!


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## Grete_J (Oct 5, 2010)

These people are most likely the same ones who allow their dogs to run rampant at offleash parks, stating "oh no, my dog's just saying hi to your dog"... not flooding them by rude greetings.... nooo.

I have the same problems with my Thai Ridgeback. Granted he has come a long way from being fearful of people, he's still cautious of those he's never met and protective of me also. If someone attempts to go over his head to pet him (without asking), yeah he's gonna back up to sniff you out.... it's called proper greetings, regardless of whether you're fur-bearing or not. Don't go an tell me to muzzle or "control" my dog when you can't even control your actions.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

I don't go to dog parks anywhere in the lower mainland. Full stop. Too many idiots with ill behaved, untrained, unsocialized and often unaltered dogs and no understanding of canine social dynamics. It's just asking for trouble.

A lot of problems would be resolved if people understood that before taking your dog to an off leash park, it needs enough training and socialization to handle it. The dog park is not training class!


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## Grete_J (Oct 5, 2010)

Elle said:


> I don't go to dog parks anywhere in the lower mainland.


Just making reference! As close to Trout Lake as I am, I'm not willing to risk other idiots' lack of caring enough to train their dogs properly. I prefer to socialize my pup at our training classes on Sunday's. At least there, people are aware of, acknowledge and take responsibility for their dogs' behaviours. All owners have them leashed.... then again, it's literal training class.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

Actually, the best dog park we've ever been to was Patmore Pit on Whidbey Island in Washington State. *Unbelievable* dog park - 5 acres, varied terrain, well kept, fenced, had a little agility course and a separate small dog area....wow. If only I could have packed it up and taken it home...and the people were great too.

I still miss our old dog trainer. She moved to Saskatchewan farm country and we haven't found anyone we've liked as much since.


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## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Elle said:


> I don't go to dog parks anywhere in the lower mainland. Full stop. *Too many idiots with ill behaved, untrained, unsocialized and often unaltered dogs and no understanding of canine social dynamics.* It's just asking for trouble.
> 
> A lot of problems would be resolved if people understood that before taking your dog to an off leash park, it needs enough training and socialization to handle it. The dog park is not training class!


I am on the same page as both of you, and both of my dogs have been rudely grabbed at and poked without so much as acknowledging me...  One of mine is pretty bomb-proof with people but the other is a little cautious so it drives me nuts when people get in his face and intimidate him. The bizarre part is that I find I get that more from ADULTS than kids. Most of the kids I encounter are pretty good (I always tell them they did a good job asking me too, they deserve a pat on the back!), but some of the adults just blow my mind...

Anyway, just wanted to comment on the sentence I bolded. One of my dogs is unaltered (I made an informed decision to keep him unaltered after sifting through some very valid research done on the subject), and I think lumping unaltered dogs together with being an 'idiot' and not responsible is pretty unfair. Not sure if you meant it that way, but thought I would clarify. My dogs are walked in dog friendly areas (not full out dog parks but areas where I typically encounter other offleash dogs once or twice during a walk) and he is polite and minds his own business. It is OTHER dogs that are the problem, when there is one. I don't think my dog should be banned from the trail because on a rare occasion (has only happened once or twice this year) another dog can't handle it and acts aggressively or obnoxiously towards him.

Not to say there aren't irresponsible people keeping intact dogs (I would tend to think there are more idiots than responsible owners, actually), but let's not lump them all together... That's unfair to people who are doing it right.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

> Not to say there aren't irresponsible people keeping intact dogs (I would tend to think there are more idiots than responsible owners, actually), but let's not lump them all together... That's unfair to people who are doing it right.


I do have a bit of a bias on this from working with rescue groups. If you're keeping an unaltered dog responsibly (keeping him/her contained to avoid unwanted pups/good medical care etc.) congrats, you're one of the rare few I've met (backyard breeders don't count). However, most of the unaltered dogs I have seen at dog parks have been exhibiting the other crappy behaviors mentioned, which is why it was in my post. Not to mention unwanted puppies resulting from unaltered strays.

Our own dog was the result of an oops on the part of her mom's owners and the neighbour's dog, and while I love her, I still think both parents should have been fixed to avoid creating extra dogs needing homes.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I agree.i had a Dalmatian. She was petrified of little kids. All the parents would say go say hi to the 101 Dalmatian. I'd say ummm. No.dont go see the Dalmatian. 
And walking..id have her right tight against my side if a dog came..she was good..she would stay right by me as we pass then run ahead once I said ok. But people wouldn't control their little dogs. They'd say they are friendly..I'd say well she's not...so control your dog.
THey would say she shouldn't be here if not good with dogs. Of course my dog was beside me..their dogs were off leash and wouldn't come when called.
I had to quit taking her places unless a big open field or wilderness .
Or late At night.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235270,-123.185039


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I have an unaltered dobermann, biggest baby that exists, well trained and well behaved, but he will fight back and kick the crap out of the other dog if it starts a fight with him, and of course I get the dirty looks, even when he's the one leashed since he's 120lbs and a feared breed.

I hate going to the dog parks as a result of the other idiots there. They're poor training and undo attention is a liability for me and my dog. On the other hand, he had a great hour of play with another feared breed one day, a pitbull (ohhhhh!!!) "Buddy" and everyone was amazed that these two would jump up in the air, punching each other, rolling around taking turns being submissive and chasing after on another. They were in awe at how well behaved two feared dogs can be, and truly set an example of how dogs SHOULD be trained and behave.

Good thread!

Cheers,
Chris


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## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Elle said:


> I do have a bit of a bias on this from working with rescue groups. If you're keeping an unaltered dog responsibly (keeping him/her contained to avoid unwanted pups/good medical care etc.) congrats, you're one of the rare few I've met (backyard breeders don't count). However, most of the unaltered dogs I have seen at dog parks have been exhibiting the other crappy behaviors mentioned, which is why it was in my post. Not to mention unwanted puppies resulting from unaltered strays.
> 
> Our own dog was the result of an oops on the part of her mom's owners and the neighbour's dog, and while I love her, I still think both parents should have been fixed to avoid creating extra dogs needing homes.


I understand your bias, I have fostered a handful of dogs and am also involved in the rescue community. And again, I get where you are coming from (my bomb-proof dog is the result of an oops). In the sport community though (agility, flyball, etc.) there is quite a large number of people with intact dogs. It's really not uncommon, as it is recommended by a lot of sources for dogs who plan to run and jump regularly to be neutered later rather than earlier. In fact, I was NOT allowed to neuter my dog before he hit 12 months, and my breeder even said she would recommend longer (which we are doing). It's actually a shame, I get a LOT of criticism and mean remarks from people who assume I am irresponsible when they find out 

Anyway, I know there are a fair number of responsible people keeping intact dogs, so I just hate to think that they are being lumped in with the baddies. At the end of the day, NOT neutering your pet is not irresponsible. Everyone needs to make an educated decision on what is best for their individual pet, whether it be keeping them intact (and being responsible about the extra precautions you must take) or neutering them so as not to have to worry about 'oops' litters.

Ok, I'll stop derailing your thread


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

pregnant ladies and dogs must have 'touch me' signs on them that I can't see. No asking, just reach out and touch. I see it all the time.

valuable thread. thanks!


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## fishykisses (May 11, 2010)

I really like this thread and i'm glad I'm not alone in this!
I have 2 dogs, granted they're not big dogs but the rule is the same - little dogs have teeth too. 
I'm not worried at all that either of mine will bite someone else, as a matter of fact the bigger of the 2, Colin would probably lick you to death before anything else. My little one is the issue! A 7 pound Papillon. People will completely ignore the 20lb Lhasa poo who's wiggling at them trying to get their attention and reach without asking for the tiny Papillon. 
He spent his first 5 years in a chicken wire cage in California as a stud dog in a puppy mill. He's Terrified of people. One unwanted grab will send him climbing up my leg and then we have a jumpy on edge dog for the rest of the day. This happens ALL THE TIME! Even when he's in my arms and shaking and pushing away from the hand that's still trying to pet him, people are pushing their faces at him ooing and awing loudly.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2011)

i have two dogs now (one dog, one puppy) and i do not find it an issue at all to tell people nicely to ask first before petting them ... i do not get angry any more because it does not help the situation at all, it does not educate the idiots ... i find kids are the easiest to train if you speak to them directly in a way they can understand ... i am not worried about people touching my dogs but i can understand wanting the courtesy of being asked ... but the chance of idiots going away is zero, the chance of dogs being trained to be friendly to people is 100% possible ... because idiots or not, if a dog bites, the idiots IQ will mean nothing, it is the dog that suffers ...


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## Shell Dweller (Jul 11, 2010)

I have 2 shep/rottis and although they are well trained and friendly I still want people to ask BEFORE PETTING. I find most children are the first to ask permission. Adults on the otherhand seem to think its alright to pet without asking. One thing that makes me nervous is when someone bends over one of my dogs to pet it. That to me would be seen as a sign of aggression by my dogs, on the part of the adult doing so and may set off a very stern growl from the dog or worse. If you were sitting at a table and some strange large person leaned over you, sticking his face in yours, would that not make you feel a little nervous and apprehensive. Same way a dog might feel......!


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## fraggalrock (Apr 21, 2010)

My dog weighs a bout three pounds and is adorable and loves everyone and is afraid of little kids.I have had too many kids see her and come running and screaming towards her and grab at her while the parents smile with glazed eyes and do nothing.during the summer an aweful child wanted to pet her and I said no,the mother insisted that her kid was gentel and he proceded to hit my dog so a pushed her kid away and she flipped out on me.I told her she was lucky that I didnt hit her kid back.


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