# Discus Gill infection



## Marcus Aurelius

I have a few small discus, i have ran into a problem i have never encountered before. the fish have swollen gills, one has a red mark on his eye, and a red streak on his fin on the side with puffy gills. last night there was one that had this, today there is 3. they are not scratching, spitting, gasping, or at the suface of the water. they still eat just fine. I am a little lost, i'm not sure if it is a gill fluke, or a bacterial gill infection, maybe even a protozoan gill infection? some of the other smaller discus do have some damage on their fins, but i think's it's just from the dense stocking. i perform 90% water changes ever night. I had a UV filter (cringe) running for about a week to make sure i didn't have any bacterial issues when i seen fin damage. i unhooked this last night as well. i'm going to turn heat to 92 and use salt at 1 tbsp per gallon until i get some answers. it seems impossible to google the subject.


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## gklaw

That looks nasty. Seems parasitic? 92 is pushing to the threshold of being fatal to the fish. 

PM Rick at Canadian_Aqua_Farm.


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## Scherb

i am no expert but i am pretty sure that is too much salt, the norm is 1 tbsp per 10g or if you want to add a lot 1 tbsp per 5g. imo 1 tbsp per gallon is getting your salinity way to high. hopefully someone can suggest a treatment. Good luck.


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## Fish rookie

Sorry to hear your problem.
PM Rick and April and may be they can help you.
I am just curious have you been doing 90% wc since you have had them?
How old are they and how long have you had them?
I think you meant 1 tsp per 10 gallon, not per 1 gallon?


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## Marcus Aurelius

Sorry, i ment 1 TBSP- 10 gallon.. lol, not into salt dipping this time. i've had them for 30+ days. and yes it is 90% everynight. 98 is the fatal temp for discus, they are ok at 92. i did talk to rick and he sent some info my way. i thought due to the red streaks it has to be bacterial, Rick seemed to agree or at least lean that way. The reason i was going to take it to 92 was incase it was a protozoan external issue followed by a secondary bacterial infection. I think they are the same age as yours fish rookie. only i have 34 of the little buggers, tiger turqs, carnations and alenquers. i will try and post pics of the before, during and after.


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## MELLO

I don't think it's from dense stocking. Small discus prefers to be in groups specially at that size. I kept juveniles 2" in size about 25 of them in a 20 gallon. With no problems. Now I have 25 4" in a 50g. 1 fish per 10 gallon rule dosen't apply to me. Also you said you do 90% waterchange so it shouldn't be a problem keeping a group healthy. 

I haven't encountered what you have hopefully I don't. But if you don't get answers here go to Simplydiscus.com
There's a lot of knowledgeable people there that could probably help you. I hope you cant turn these guys around. 

Seems to me that there a lot of guys having problems with there discus lately.. Whats going on? It's either water debates, discus dying or sick..


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## Fish rookie

Marcus Aurelius said:


> Sorry, i ment 1 TBSP- 10 gallon.. lol, not into salt dipping this time. i've had them for 30+ days. and yes it is 90% everynight. 98 is the fatal temp for discus, they are ok at 92. i did talk to rick and he sent some info my way. i thought due to the red streaks it has to be bacterial, Rick seemed to agree or at least lean that way. The reason i was going to take it to 92 was incase it was a protozoan external issue followed by a secondary bacterial infection. I think they are the same age as yours fish rookie. only i have 34 of the little buggers, tiger turqs, carnations and alenquers. i will try and post pics of the before, during and after.


You have 34! Wow!!!! I am not sure but I think mine are about 4 months or so.
I hope they are okay and this problem wont spread. 
Anyway if Rick has sent you some info then you should be fine. I would alwasy follow Rick's suggestion.
I used to keep mine at 90, and sometimes it went a bit over that (91-92) but my discus never showed any sign of stress. Because of my pleco and cory I have been keeping the temp at 88. I dont think 92 is too high for them as long as you have enough oxygen in the water.
How big are they and what size tank are you keeping them now if I may ask?
I am only asking because I am just trying to image what 34 of these guys would look like LOL. Good luck.
By the way, can you still have baceria infection whenyou have UV in the tank?


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## Marcus Aurelius

I stock 1 fish to 3 gallons. the only problem i had is that the more agressive fish were eating all the food before the little ones could eat, which resulted in some issues. but i beat that. as soon as you google discus gills, you get flukes and hexmita, i really want to know if a protozoan can infect the gills of a fish.


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## MELLO

Marcus Aurelius said:


> I stock 1 fish to 3 gallons. the only problem i had is that the more agressive fish were eating all the food before the little ones could eat, which resulted in some issues. but i beat that. as soon as you google discus gills, you get flukes and hexmita, i really want to know if a protozoan can infect the gills of a fish.


Did you got them all the same size and the same source?


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## Marcus Aurelius

I will send you some pictures fish rookie, they re about 3-3.5" some are still pretty small, but some grow much fast than others. if you like you can join my facebook page, discus fish prince george. i usually post a video everyweek of them to show the crazy crazy growth! 2 have made it to my show tank and are holding their own against the big ones.


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## Marcus Aurelius

MELLO said:


> Did you got them all the same size and the same source?


They are from rick, all same size. I started with 37. lost one becuase i'm an idiot, and 1 died becuase he would not eat and was too small to force feed, and one just died all on his own, i think the last 2 were just genetics.


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## Fish rookie

MELLO said:


> I don't think it's from dense stocking. Small discus prefers to be in groups specially at that size. I kept juveniles 2" in size about 25 of them in a 20 gallon. With no problems. Now I have 25 4" in a 50g. 1 fish per 10 gallon rule dosen't apply to me. Also you said you do 90% waterchange so it shouldn't be a problem keeping a group healthy.
> 
> I haven't encountered what you have hopefully I don't. But if you don't get answers here go to Simplydiscus.com
> There's a lot of knowledgeable people there that could probably help you. I hope you cant turn these guys around.
> 
> Seems to me that there a lot of guys having problems with there discus lately.. Whats going on? It's either water debates, discus dying or sick..


Yes Mello. I used to keep 6 in a 10 gallon until they grew a bit over 3" and they were fine. When i moved them over to the 45 gallon they were a bit scared at first. They seem to prefer a tighter quarter rather than a big space. I filled only less than 50% of water in the beginning to make them feel that they were only in a 20 gallon and then slowly increase the new water volume. They swim everywhere in the 45 now but they were not like that in the beginning.


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## Fish rookie

Marcus Aurelius said:


> I will send you some pictures fish rookie, they re about 3-3.5" some are still pretty small, but some grow much fast than others. if you like you can join my facebook page, discus fish prince george. i usually post a video everyweek of them to show the crazy crazy growth! 2 have made it to my show tank and are holding their own against the big ones.


Cool.
Are these the brothers and sisters of mine?


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## Fish rookie

Marcus Aurelius said:


> They are from rick, all same size. I started with 37. lost one becuase i'm an idiot, and 1 died becuase he would not eat and was too small to force feed, and one just died all on his own, i think the last 2 were just genetics.


Rick told me to feed them the loose worms rather than the cubes because sometimes the agreesive ones might keep the rest from eating the cubes. I dont general have aggressive issues but when I put the cube on the glass one big guy would always try to keep the rest from getting close to the cube. Now I hand feed everyone first then i put two cubes on the glass. I also have some food that I make which they all share. They also share the bloowworm (Hikari frozen) with no problem; just not the freeze dried black worm.
I dont know if it is true in general but I have also noticed that if they are a bit stress out they would act more aggressive.


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## kacairns

Fish rookie said:


> Rick told me to feed them the loose worms rather than the cubes because sometimes the agreesive ones might keep the rest from eating the cubes. I dont general have aggressive issues but when I put the cube on the glass one big guy would always try to keep the rest from getting close to the cube. Now I hand feed everyone first then i put two cubes on the glass. I also have some food that I make which they all share. They also share the bloowworm (Hikari frozen) with no problem; just not the freeze dried black worm.
> I dont know if it is true in general but I have also noticed that if they are a bit stress out they would act more aggressive.


One thing I've started to do was feed 2 types of food at a time at least twice a day. ie a cube of worms and some tropical granuals. That way the ones that are to small to force feed have the option of going for the granuals. I've even noticed the opposite the bigger ones go for the granuals and smaller ones go to the cube


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## Marcus Aurelius

Fish rookie said:


> Cool.
> Are these the brothers and sisters of mine?


Yes I believe they are. I have a tiger turquoise that is the identical twin to yours. The one that has a full blue circle. I kept him for my personal stock


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## Fish rookie

Thanks for the advice.
Interestingly, if I just drop a cube of freeze dried black worm into the water, it will stay afloat and my discus would all go up and eat them without any issue. If I stick the cube on the glass then one big guy would try to stop the other guys from eating, but the other guys will still try.
So, sometimes I just drop a cube into the tank. LOL
When my PH had an issue, they were all much more aggressive during feeding. I was using DI water, doing 1 wc a day and did not know that my Ph could drop to 6 without any buffer. They were not comfy and eventually 1 of them jumped out of the tank and died. I discovered the problem too late or else I probably would not have lost him. 
Now I am using tap water, doing 2 water changes a day and they are looking good. I have never had any sickness other than having to clip the fin off one fish, which recoved in a matter of days. Rick's home bred discus are really healthy. 
The smallest guy I had did not really eat as much so I changed my feeding schedule and now even he is catching up.
Good luck with your discus. I hope this will get sorted out soon. 
I would love to see a video or some pictures of your discus. They are siblings--all from "papa Rick."


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## Marcus Aurelius

I started to feed grindal worms as I could gut load them. I found bloodworms had too much water And not enough protein. All fish go nuts for grindal worms. One thing I learned keeping discus in large groups is that marlboros are assholes. They need to be separated from time to time to curb the aggression.


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## Fish rookie

Do you just start a culture of the worms yourself?
Is that easy to do? May be i should try that, too.LOL


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## seanyuki

When you do regular water changes and water parameters are good.....there should be no gill flukes.....healthy discus have red gills and not brown and only when the discus is weak and expose to all kind of illness.......discus will rub against objects when they have flukes .......from the pictures the eyes are too big for their size..... need to know yr daily routine b4 admin any meds......no harm in using one Table spoon of salt when using the right kind of salt for treatment ........my 2 cents.....I am just a discus hobbyist.


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## Fish rookie

I though UV will kill bacteria in the tank...no?
I am a noob but I would just isolate the ones with the problem in another tank first (may be a 10 gallon) and do some water change to see what happens...


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## seanyuki

An UV will work when using one with 150 watts over to kill parasites/bacteria and not those small ones under 50 watts submerged inside the tank.



Fish rookie said:


> I though UV will kill bacteria in the tank...no?
> I am a noob but I would just isolate the ones with the problem in another tank first (may be a 10 gallon) and do some water change to see what happens...


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## April

I agree with sesnyuki. They are not growing right. Their eyes are big. Are those ones eating? Or those some of the smaller ones? 
Are you vacuuming the bottom and wiping the walls down? Have they grown since you got them? 
I'd talk to Rick. If it'd just those few and they are the smallest and behind..I'd say stress caused it. All discus have flukes but healthy ones keep them in check. Stress thry go out of comtrol.


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## Fish rookie

April said:


> I agree with sesnyuki. They are not growing right. Their eyes are big. Are those ones eating? Or those some of the smaller ones?
> Are you vacuuming the bottom and wiping the walls down? Have they grown since you got them?
> I'd talk to Rick. If it'd just those few and they are the smallest and behind..I'd say stress caused it. All discus have flukes but healthy ones keep them in check. Stress thry go out of comtrol.


So these guys have fluke?
Can they still grow bigger thus not making the eyes look so big?


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm

I am pretty sure these are the smaller ones out of the 34. I've seen photos of the big ones and they look great. Being smaller/weaker as April stated they are going to be much more susceptible to health issues. In one of Andrew Soh's books he listed parasites, bacteria, chemicals and calcium deficiency as possible causes for this gill issue. Based on the rapid development (overnight) and the red discolourations I would lean towards it being a bacterial attack. UV sterilizers are great but can only kill bacteria that are free floating in the water, it won't work against bacteria that are attached to the fish. For that medication is needed.


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## Marcus Aurelius

The one in the picture is the smallest out of them all. There are a few B grades for sure. I still like to see them live. I sell them very cheap for people scared of the cost of A grades to help open the door for them. I do the 90% everynight, wipe everything down and clean any media in the tank water. I started to use a hose and a misting spray nozel, for some reason this seems to stress the fish out more than pouring buckets. I made the mistake of using water that was not aged enough a few weeks ago ( used to only take 5 minutes, now that it's cold out, it takes 40) I thought maybe I damaged his eye and gill with too much gas exposure. Today I will separate the small from the big into their own tank and see if I can get them better. I don't like using UV, I keep them on hand for algae blooms. I believe it weakens their immune system if used for a prolonged amount to of time. He is doing slightly better. They are fed 7+ times a day, I don't feed before WC. 

I bought the worms from rick. Super easy to grow at room temp. In 2 weeks I went from a small culture to 4 big ones and I have more worms than I know what to do with. It feeds 3 tanks of 60 discus heavily once per day. The 6"+ Discus are crazy for them.


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## April

Well sounds like your doing fine. There will always be a few that don't thrive. The law
Of nature. 
What kind if worms? White?


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## Marcus Aurelius

April said:


> Well sounds like your doing fine. There will always be a few that don't thrive. The law
> Of nature.
> What kind if worms? White?


Grindal worms.

This order of discus was just to help me learn. I started with 22 3" discus, then 3 weeks later I did the 37 1.5", just working backwards until my fish breed. I've only been keeping discus since late august. Lol. I love to just jump right in and learn the hard way.


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## Fish rookie

Cool, I am greener than you in that case. it makes sense to culture your own worms if you have that many discus to feed. I read jack Wattey feeds his with white worms... Alwasy want to try that but my wife and daughters said it is too disgusting.
Hope you can grow them big and round and breed lots of babies.


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## Marcus Aurelius

Fish rookie said:


> Cool, I am greener than you in that case. it makes sense to culture your own worms if you have that many discus to feed. I read jack Wattey feeds his with white worms... Alwasy want to try that but my wife and daughters said it is too disgusting.
> Hope you can grow them big and round and breed lots of babies.


I followed you on care suggestions for small discus. It helped keep me one step ahead and answered alot of my questions without bugging rick. White worms I think are best suited for small fry, but I have no experience with them. I have a few monsters now in my show tank and a red turquoise looks like she is ready to breed. I really really like the forrest gene discus. They are the full package, amazing colour, and the best personalities by far. And man can they grow!


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