# Neven's Saltwater nano! - Tank to be torn down



## neven (May 15, 2010)

My wife asked me if we could make one of our empty tanks into a saltwater because she wants pretty colours (i really summed up her statement there).

What i have to start, a 10 gallon tank and a canister filter.
I have read a lot into nano tanks, the various methods of salt water tanks, and equipment often used.

The canister filter i plan on using live rock rubble in, further more i modded it a bit to bypass most of the flow through the basket, so it goes around it instead. Why would i do this? I want to make it a cryptic zone. So i will be greatly slowing the current through the basket by using perforated plastic sheets. The canister will be the current source for now, but will likely will add a nano power head.

Mostly fish is the goal for now, maybe a couple easy corals. i plan on going with a shallow crushed argonite substrate

in the future i will be adding a refuguim above the tank on a shelf (i guess the actual tank will be a sump at that point, it will be mangroves, DSB and some macro algae.

the tank









extra pipe from my sump, now to be an overflow









tadaa done with a hole drilled in it









where it goes









and how it will look, i'll be trimming back the blue pipe









there's more i will be doing with the scape when i get the materials, but i'll keep the direction on the down low for now


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Rob:

Want a couple small strip of black acrylics?


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## Claudia (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh wow this looks interesting, cant wait to c more pics


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

For now i think i am fine gordon  the overflow wont be visiable by the time im done


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Good start Neven! Can't wait to see what it looks like when completed.

Cheers,
Chris


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## tang daddy (Apr 21, 2010)

Very nice mod, great way to eliminate surface scum while hiding the piping!


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

So here is the plan for the tank:










The display tank over flow drains to the canister, due to the bypassing of the basket, only a little fine detritus should make it into the cryptic zone, the larger particles should flow around and head into the above tank sump.

The sump is a 5 gallon tank that will be separated lengthwise roughly 60%/40%. The larger portion will be a remote sand bed inside another container to ease cleaning (thanks anthony for the tip), topped with LR rubble to help prevent the current from displacing the sand. Once through this portion, a coarse sponge prevents larger detritus from returning to the tank, but not limiting all the critters from entering the display tank. the macro algae area will be enclosed with black acrylic since the tank is in the bedroom and i don't want the lights that visible from the bed. Plus its better for the DSB if it doesn't get much light. Not sure about the skimmer yet, im curious to see how the rest of the system will handle the organics and nitrates. Finally it goes through the overflow and down into the display tank. Both intake and outtake i want drilled into the 5 gallon, this way i can put a glass cover on the tank and rest a light for the algae right on it.

Now the tank itself, the overflow is complete, as is the main plumbing from the cannister filter. as shown i do plan on using a nano powerhead which i'll leave room for within the shallow rock/foam wall im building. The rock i plan on using is the Goby rock from J&L, i like the look of it and its cheap. Plus its clean. When building the live rock structure, i'll leave room for a few small pieces to seed the display. Lighting, i plan on 3 t5ho's mounted roughly 4-6 inches above the tank(not sure ), likely will go with 2x10ks and 1xactinic.

Heres the progress so far, im ready for the goby rock now, i just need to buy it, i plan on getting 15-20 lbs so i can pick the pieces i want, and smash the ones i dont want for rubble.










I have more mesh to use as needed, doesn't look like much, but i want a mostly shallow depth for the wall. The rock will overlap the edges a bit so its not noticeable, and foam will fill in the cracks to make it one rock piece


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## mortava (Apr 24, 2010)

It's great to be able to read the plans and see everything unfold! Looking forward to seeing this tank come together.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

well with the costs of everything i have time to be detailed  just doing the budget for everything and im already double the cost of what i thought


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

There is not budget for SW Rob  It's like a having hole in your pocket.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i can at least extend the expenses over a period of time


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## killifishkerry (Aug 5, 2011)

Looks like you have a good start on your sw nano.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

My Goodness, yet another SW nano! They're popping up everywhere at the moment!

This one looks like a really interesting project. It's nice to heave good DIYers documenting their work. For the rest of us not so good DIYers. 

Looking forward to the continued progress.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i only post the successful diys mostly. If only you saw my attempt to convert a window mount AC into a portable. or my swamp cooler... My wife never lets me live that down.

But already the purpose of this tank is being fulfilled, my wife has demanded i don't leave her behind because she wants to see the goodies she can get for the tank when i go to j&L with her


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

So mWell i got my wife into j&L and bought a bunch of goby rock to get started. Her new found like to the hobby got fueled by their stock tanks  YAY ME!
anywho, i got to start on the wall.

here is the rock!

















and the rock wall construction begins! I started by smashing a lot of the goby rock to pieces (not so much fun). after that I silicone rocks to the mesh, it doesn't stick well, well it did to the parchment paper underneath :/ so halfway through i decided to just put it into the tank and then i siliconed it all to the glass. For the rocks i needed to re-attatch, these ones were firmly in place  I weighted down the rocks while they dried  Once both sides were done. I left a hole in the left side of the wall for the koralia i will be adding


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Now the fun part, using great stuff foam between the rocks. If you used this stuff, im sure you'll notice how much it expands  Luckily once it cures you can trim it. After curing i did my best to carve it to match the coral depth and texture, not an easy task

































and the scrap from the carving









before the fill up in place









after the fill up, the overflow was too restrictive so i had to cut deeper slots. I might go with a lower water line in the end. heres the angles, the front view is hard to see the depth though.

























After a couple days i'll change the water, then i'll start using salt water. I cant wait till this thing gets coraline and covers the difference in colours between the coral and foam.

For lights, im unsure of where to go, if the Beamswork LED 1300 reef brights can support softies, they will be cheaper compared to buying 3 t5ho's


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Not sure if the LED 1300 will do. It may.

You can try the following for a fun project as well:

Plug-and-Play Biocube 14 Retrofit Kit (non-dimmable) - Rapid LED

YOu can bring cost down by reducing the number of LED's. Also recommend to get the dimmable driver.


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## lotus (Apr 22, 2010)

Looks great and very impressive!Even more so when it's fully stocked with corals. Are you going to cover the entire wall with corals?


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

That looks pretty damn cool Neven! Keep up the fine work dude!

Cheers,
Chris


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## tang daddy (Apr 21, 2010)

One quick question, which silicone did you use?


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

GE silicone I is what i use.
Doesn't say mildew resistant or anything else,


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

lotus said:


> Looks great and very impressive!Even more so when it's fully stocked with corals. Are you going to cover the entire wall with corals?


im hoping to get the majority of the wall covered in Zoas


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## tang daddy (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok just wondering because the GE silicones have had added mold and mildew inhibitors in their new silicone and is not reef safe. I know your using GE 1 but just thought you should know before you start stocking it and hopefully your stuff is fine.

Losing Corals fast...question about GE Silicone II - Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board

Maybe wise to contact GE to see if it's safe....

I am sure that the bottle of GE 2 didn't say mold and mildew aswell otherwise they wouldn't have used it which ended up killing alot of coral in his tank, not trying to scare you but just passing on some usefull info!


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

It will be a long time before I stock anything. I also stay clearof silicone ii because I don't need the tensile strength which I assumed has extra additives to achieve that. The tube says 100 % silicone, checked the tube for additives, researched online, but I appreciate the caution. The tank will age for a while, with large water changes every few days until the smell of the acetic acid and whatever is in the great stuff disappears, then it will be salt water


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

So text update! as pics wont show much change 

I picked up a bag of oolite live sand (the grain sand being the reason rather than the live sand part  ). Since Charles was out of his LED fixtures for the size i wanted, i decided to buy the koralia 260 EVO model power head for the tank ahead of schedule, while at J&L i picked up a lb of live rock rubble to help jump start the cycle. When i added the sand, the packet to clear the water was missing, so after sifting sand in my tank for a good 3 or 4 times through, i accepted that the packet never existed in the bag :/ It took about 5 days for the water to clear enough to see the back of the tank and a few more for the water to clear completely.

Cycle wise i know the tank is coming along, diatoms are popping up on the live rock, patches of the goby rock, the wall and the sand. WHere it stands exactly i do not know, as i dont have the test kits to verify the ammonia and nitrates so i'll wait a while longer to stock anything. Although if i can get myself a piece of LR covered in coraline, i'd like to shave some in the tank.

I won the monthly draw and got a 20 gallon kit from mr pets. So i got a decent sized sump now almost ready to go  I cleaned out the storage area, placed planks of 2x6s on the ground, then a foam layer on top of it. The 20 gallon fit in the area perfectly without hindering maintnence. Inside the 20 gallon i made chambers by using a 5 gallon tank (macro algae), and a deep sand bed. Flow will go into the 5 gallon tank from the 10 gallon, then overflow mostly on the side of the DSB (takes up the entire lenght of the tank, but not the width. An empty hob filter hanging backwards on the 5 gallon tank ensures that there is decent flow hitting the DSB surface (the hob model came with the kit and the pump in it is submersible so it works). The Canister filter keeps flow high around the tank bottom so detritus wont settle (only want it settling in the DSB), im thinking of placing LR rubble around this area since theres lots of room and the heater (also from the kit) barely takes up any. The light is one t8, 8000k, hoping its enough for the macro algae, if not i'll just use a CFL lamp on the hood shining in.

Three things left before stocking.
1. Return pump (only care it handles the head, flow is not important)
2. Drill the tank's overflow and install a bulkhead. The Chamber is sealed well, i've let it sit empty before and the water level did not rise. Drilling should not be a worry since its the side of the tank and i've cored holes with diamond bits, so i know the patience required.
3. Plumb the bulkhead to the sump, and return pump to the tank
4. Get the LED lights from Charles. I am sure i can stock before this one though. Currently the lights are in a track light fixture for incandescents (3x 6500L 21W CFLs) hung from a wiremesh shelf above.

Later on i'll fill the sump up and get the cannister and HoB filter going, so atleast the DSB gets seeded. the cannister has already been running on the display tank so it will help jump start it aswell


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Finally an update!
After spending a whole night setting my sump up, my wife wakes me the next morning telling me my son got into the storage room. So i groggily blocked off the door again (left it open) and go back to bed. 2 days later i go in there to see how things are going. The tank is filled with computer parts and random cables. All corroded to crap now, Luckily the sump was not connected the the display tank yet. So i had to pull apart the whole sump, wash everything good and restart from scratch, not so much fun. a couple days later, i check, and there is water on the floor in the storage area. The Gasket to my xp1 gave out, the big one, not the valve ones. So i removed what was to be the cryptic filter and put the xp1 out of commission.

Now comes time to drill the tank. having never drilled glass before, i was a bit nervous so i practiced with a picture frame, Since the tank is rimless, the 10g is 3/16th thick, so not as fragile as most of the google results about drilling 10 gallons thankfully. Downside was i had to drill horizontally, meaning it would be harder to lubricate the hole, and harder to keep a steady hand. What i did was prop my arm so it rested at the height i was drilling at and used my right hand, elbow to stabilize the drill and hold it back so the bit does all the work. To solve the lubrication issue, i took one of my kids sippy cheap sippy cups, ran an airline through the straw hole and created a slow siphon, held in place by a finger, maintaining a constant stream of water around the bit as i drilled. By the time i was done the hole (4 or 5 min), the glass wasn't even hot  The bulkhead worked out find and i got the tank and sump plumbed together:


















Also i made a couple visits to J&L, since on my way home from work i passed it a couple times. I picked up some liverock mainly, but once i got readings for 0,0,<5 parameter wise, i stocked up a small clean up crew. The best part was buying the rubble a couple nights ago and finding seed shrimp, a few brittle stars and probably more unseen HHs for my sump.

Here is the sumps pwr center. Its raised above the tank, the 6 plug adapter is on a gfci








And the sump








DSB container inside it, LR in there is to prevent agitating the sand, most of the surface area is actually open under the rock

















an unknown softie that i got with the LR rubble, not sure what it is, small little thing anyways


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

one of the crabs









and the tank itself. I rescaped a few times already, settling for a lower scape so the wall and a couple tunnels i made in the wall are visible.










































I rigged up temporary lighting from an old crappy light fixture i demo'd. Its wired professionally  so no worrying about Fire hazards. I hung it with tie wire. I used a party blue bulb just so the tank isn't so visibly yellow. Remember this is Temp, I plan on a reefbrite fixture very soon. If it wasn't so temporary, i would get the coralife 50/50 screw ins, but to buy 3 of them is half the cost of a new fixture


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks great man!


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Great job thus far Neven. Looking forward to future updates!


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

That is mushroom you got there. It will grow and multiply if condition is right. More and more little more critters will show up.

It is going to look awesome.


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## lotus (Apr 22, 2010)

Love the rock wall and scape...next is the fun part. Filling it up with corals.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

A week ago i dropped the temp lighting and picked up a beamswork LED doublebrite fixture (reefbrite in some places). it is fairly bright, so i'll likely be able to grow most softies with it, possibly even sps! Only a par meter could tell for sure :/ I love the light, but there's a couple draw backs. I need to choose between illuminating the front or back more, would have loved a wider fixture with another row of LEDs, but this can be easily fixed with a single strip of LEDs down the road (if zoa's wont grow on the wall).

The second draw back is the Blue LEDs really give a spot light effect in the three areas they are over, to solve this i popped out the optics on the blue LEDs, the sacrificed PAR is well worth not being annoyed by this. I can still see the blue shimmering along surfaces throughout the tank, so likely the flourescants will pop nearly as much without the optics on.

The light has two modes, Blue only, off and ALL lights. Well i'd love to have Blues on 24/7 and the 10ks on a timer. Luckily it would be easy to rewire. The switch i do not need, so i can remove that and install jack in a filler plate where it was, this jack will feed its own power source for the blue lights. and i will be happy 

so all said and done, the only issue is i will likely need a strip of accent lighting to get better coverage in the back, thats all


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

I've got my hands on a few softies, some doing well, others not so much, plus i recently finally got some macros from s.tan! The sump was changed to 24/7 lighting and i took a t5ho from my 29 gallon tank (lowered the hung lights to make up for it). So i threw half of the macros in the sump, and the other half in the display tank. The cyano algae issues i was having pretty much disappeared, but along comes the hair algae. It is never ending. I decided to double my water changes to help, but that wasn't enough, it still kept coming, leading me to believe its silicates since i cut feeding to only 1 small feeding a week. The macros i got this weekend so im hoping these will help remove at least the excess nitrates and phosphates that still may be present.

heres the tank:








and here's a couple close ups of the algae issue


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

I really like this , looks great! Makes me want to try one! Great job Neven!


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## arash53 (Aug 13, 2011)

Looks great !


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

fixed the links for the last two pics, now it doesn't look so good


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## arash53 (Aug 13, 2011)

Get a Tuxedo Urchin , it will take care of all these.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

neven said:


> fixed the links for the last two pics, now it doesn't look so good


lol close ups definitely make a big difference, still looks good under all that lol


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i might have to give the urchin a try, but before i do, i really need to get crud from the bottom of LR holding bins from a shop or two. Really need my DSB to be seeded and im not paying $80 for a detritivore start up kit.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Rob. You know who to call 

Get a sea hare from JL and return for 50% credit when they are done with clean up in 24 - 48 hours.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

that sounds like an even better solution gordon, will it attack my macro algaes though? i heard it eats Caulerpa, but nothing is said about other macros. If it is only eating caulerpa, perhaps i could even keep it as a permanent resident and grow it food in my sump


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

For the first time since i've added some corals, i put the tank on blues LEDs only switch, and man did the colours pop. So i rewired the fixture so i can keep the Blues on 24/7.

What i did:
Opened up the fixture
Disconnected the Switch connections and popped out the switch
tested the Voltage, the supplied ac adapter is a very stable 17 Volts out (labelled 12V 2A). Managed to scrounge up a second AC adapter from an old shaw cable modem, labelled 12V 750mA DC, plenty for whats needed, its actual output jumps 14-16V.
Found a Grommet bushing thingy that snapped nicely in place of the switch.

The Before and After diagram









I decided to keep off the lens plate, with the tank height i have, the coverage is much better without Lenses. With this fixture im finding they should have done 12 White, 6 blue LEDs instead of 15 white, 3 blue, flourescent colours get real washed out. So when i get accent lighting i will need an all blue, blue purple, or something predominately blue with a bit of white


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Update! The sump got a minor overhaul. 4 lbs more LR into it, with a maxijet 400 circulation mode installed to keep flow through the compartment a lot. I removed the HoB since the maxijet powerhead suspends detritus enough to settle into the DSB below. Macro Algae was suffering light shock from the t5ho on 24/7. So i moved the macro algae below the DSB area at the bottom of the tank. the return pump was moved to the front of the tank, and tubing resized to get better flow to the tank (was 5/8s, now 1/2). Since the HOB was removed it allowed me to increase my water volume by around 5 gallons (the HOB floated). So im happy with it  Also did a 10% WC last night and 30% today to help cut the nutrients for the bryopsis algae down.

Oh and i modified the Tank canopy a little bit to allow the light to be mounted right at the front above the macro algae

oh and the best part! Went to J&L and picked up a Elysia diomedea, We named him Mr. Brocolli


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

So its time i do a final write up on this tank since i wont be updating it, just tearing it down in the near future.

The reason i think was my failure in understanding proper sump set up and maintenance.

The Sump set up was simply flawed, i tried to employ a DSB, but i failed to be patient enough to let the bed establish properly. The dsb layout was also flawed, simply not enough surface area to handle the bio load. There is a lot of conflicting information out there, so its a real pain to sift through it all, especially when experts have differing opinions and many others pipe in without experience. Plus having people confuse a DSB with a remote DSB adds to the confusion.

So DSB lessons:
1. DONT RUSH THINGS, microfauna will never catch up to a high bio load
2. Don't rely on low flow to allow things to settle into the bed, HIGH flow over the bed is a must.
3. Surface area is needed!

Other sump lessons:
1. Stick to your layout plan, dont be lazy
2. Keep Detritus Suspended! Filter feeders will do a much better job then.
3. Make every area accessible!
4. better refugium planning.

Foam background:
1. It was fun to make
2. Epoxy coat it and used crushed dried live rock to fill in between larger areas.
3. Don't do the whole wall, its fine for pico tanks as there is no space for rocks, but with more space, some areas without it will be more visually pleasing
4. Not so high with the foam!

General Tank Lessons:
1. I like keeping a marine system
2. Bryopsis sucks
3. Clean diatom clumps off the sand
4. Sand bed needs to be shallow or 5+ iinches, not in between.
5. KEEP THINGS ACCESSIBLE! 1 fish i could not get to in a tunnel :/
6. Easy to light shock corals with moving around the tank 


Thats what i can think of for now. What is happening here right now is a project in the making, while its going, the tank will still run, just keeping up with water changes and glass cleaning, not much else though


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Neven,

Most of a tank's "problems" happen in the first 6 months to a year. That is both due to the steep learning curve of the newbie and sw tanks need time to settle down and become more established. Once established, most of the problems seem to work themselves out or you learn how to deal with it biologically, chemically, or mechanically. 

Having come so far, I would let the tank run and "age" naturally. If you don't like your sump design, take your time to build one that really suits your needs and then do a swap over.

Anthony


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

the tank will definitely have more time to age as things get made, but i still think the end result would be a tear down due to space. My project priority:

1. Set up custom river manifold for 29G replacement tank, as well as overflows and drill tank
2. Set up New Marine sump
3. Get 2 stands made
4. Rig up River tank to run sumpless and changeover
5. Set up sumps DSB and LR, get it running in stand, seed life and maintain.
6. Set up Marine Display Tank and overflows
7. Construct light fixture for marine tank

So this tank will age during most of this time. When i get the sump runnin in the new stand, the old sump in the storage will be torn down, cleaned and set up for the Fresh water sump. The 10 gallon only gets around 15-25% of its flow from the sump, so it wont affect things too much in the tank. As i said though, i am done with the 10 gallon project, it was the learning experience i needed


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Well if its shutting down due to upgrade, that's totally different.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Despite me saying no wish to play with the tank. I noticed the sand hed finally filled with activity and microfauna finally around the tank. The last algae outbreak has cut back to only a handul of tufts of bryopsis. The only thing that changed was me forgetting 2 weeks of water changes.

Stopped at j&l and picked up sand and a heater for the new tank, and a clownfish and frag for the old one figured it would be easy enough to transfer over once the big tank is ready

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Looking forward to seeing the new tank up and running.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

I just wish jl printed out gift re eipts automatically and the priced recwipts only available by request only

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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