# Posting Betta problem for a friend



## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

I got a msg from a friend of mine regarding her betta....
"Hey! So do you actually know about fish? I'm trying to troubleshoot what might be wrong with mine, and I'm coming more and more to the conclusion of parasites.

If you don't know about fish, would you mind asking someone you know who does (if you know someone)? I feel horrible not doing anything. My poor Friend!

K, so here are the symptoms. They're going on at least two weeks.

1. Lethargic when not moving (which is most of the time), either floating slightly "nose up" along the top, or hanging out behind or under something at the bottom.

2. Spastic/jerky (almost seizure-like) when swimming. This is new. I thought I noticed he was swimming faster a day or two ago, but today the spastic swimming thing was like "woah".

3. Loss of appetite (wouldn't even look at food until a few days ago), but he's starting to "chase" his food. Take food, spit it out, chase it, spit, repeat. Again, very jerky spastic-type swim when he does this. And any other time... lol

4. Clumped fins when not swimming. Looks totally depressed (or asleep), but will flare up towards the back of the tank (like when seeing another fish). I don't see any obvious signs of fin rot, but the ends ARE a bit dark. It could be rot, but it's either too soon to tell, or I just don't know what it looks like.

I tried the aquarium salt (at half strength) on the weekend, which I think is what made him perk up, but that's all it did. He's not "getting" better. He's just better than he was.

I've been doing water changes at 25-50% every day or other day, but it doesn't seem to do anything but stress him out. I'm debating doing a complete water change with 100% of the recommended salt, but I'm afraid of stressing him out.

Thoughts? Does any of this mean anything to you?

Sorry for rambling. You're the only fish person I know! <3 [<3] "

I asked her and temp is 76 - nothing is jumping out at me? I asked her a few more questions, just waiting for a response.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

do you know how old is ?


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

he's in a 10g tank and about a year old. The betta eats HBH betta bites. and she's not sure about pH.


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

She's taking the water to the pet store tomorrow for testing


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

IMO sounds like fairly normal betta behaviour to me... some of its unusual though. Try some frozen livefood to see if he's just started being picky or if it's parasites I suppose. 
Is the stomach bloated or sunk in? Size of the tank? Parameters (once you get them) would also help.


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

I think he is bloated, and he is not eating so that's not good. The tank is 10g.


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

Well, she kept trying with the peas and finally got him to eat some and she thinks he is feeling better! At first he didn't want the peas (no appetite) but she persisted and he finally took one, and then went looking for and ate the rest of the peas she'd put in there!


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

I think your betta may be stressed out. If your betta appears bloated try daphnia instead of peas. It's less messy and works same as peas (laxative). Don't feed your betta for couple of days and see if the swimming improves. Does he have any "hiding spot"? It could be anything from large plants to decorations with openings, just make sure it's not sharp or your betta can damage his fins and openings are big enough so he doesn't get stuck. You could also try *slowly* raise temperature to about 78-79F (it helped some of my bettas in the past)
I would recommend feeding variety of food (my bettas love hikari micro wafers and dried blood worms as a treat once every 10 days or so). Also you could pick one day a week when you don't feed your betta at all. If you noticed any signs of fin rot, treat with salt asap for few days. Please note, long term of salt use is not recommended. 
I hope he will feel better soon.


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## BettaGuy (Apr 22, 2010)

The lethargy and clamped fins are always present when Bettas aren't feeling well, so those are not specific enough to point at any diagnosis. 
However, the spastic motions could potentially be a result of external or internal parasites. For external, look for Ich or Velvt signs... those being white salt grains for ICk and golden powder for Velvet. With external parasites aggravating their skin, fish tend to produce more mucous which is visible on the bottom of a clear tank, and he may often try bumping into things as if to scratch himself. 

I have witnessed 2 of my friends bettas die from Hexamita or Internal parasite/protozoan infection. The most tell-tale sign being mucous-like poop which ranges in colour from white to yellow to yellow mixed with green. This is coupled with a complete lack of interest in food. These pathogens are usually in the fish, but can grow exponentially when the fish is weakened by stress. Another symptom of this is twitching, swimming backwards, and hiding. The fish wastes away before it dies of starvation or opportunistic secondary infections like fin rot or internal infection. 

Of course, water quality is of upmost important for maintaing a Betta. Poor water quality leads to a number of diseases, and poor water quality alone will make a betta clamp its fins. Have her post a picture for us and tell us the specifications of her water. If she does not have a water test kit, tell her to bring a large cup of water to a local fish store. They often will do free testing for you. 

P.S. Another good laxative besides peas is brine shrimp *frozen* not freeze dried. Daphnia is usually a bit on the small side for bettas. 

best of luck!


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## Spiriit (May 1, 2012)

Hello! I'm the owner of the fish (thanks for the help, Keri!). 

I wanted to post with an update, as I'm just not sure what to do now (but after the last reply, I'm suspecting parasites!). 

The good: He's looking MUCH better. Acting fairly normal, swimming around a lot, and has a HUGE appetite for peas (he ate a total of 2.5 peas, in three separate feedings - 1, 1/2, 1) and will often bottom feed looking for more. The fins are still not 100%, but they're not clamped anymore, and he not showing many signs of being sick anymore. That said, they (fins) still looks a bit "limp". 

The bad: His belly is large, and getting bigger. He's pooped three times, each time smallish and flat off-white (though not mucus-y) poops that look similar to a flattened out pea. He also has what I call a "fuzzy looking white permanent turtlehead". The only way I can think to describe it is that his belly looks like a zit that's ready to pop. He's very obviously got intestinal stuff (whether it be poop or something else) that is bulging to come out. 

The unknown: He's flaring at the back of the tank. A LOT. I've read that bettas will sometimes do this when they poop, so I'm a bit concerned that maybe he has an impaction and is unable to pass it. He's no longer swimming with spastic or jerky movements, but he does "twitch" from time to time (like a kick off before swimming). I'm not sure if this is normal for a betta or not though, as it seems pretty mild to my untrained eye. 

As it turns out, this is all very likely my fault, as I think I have been over feeding him (5-6 pellets/day). I've had a bad algae problem since the day I got him and it's been difficult to maintain a clean looking tank. That said, I did have the water tested (before and after a big chance), and both tests came out with nothing off. The water was good. 

To answer the question regarding size, it's a 10 gallon (more like 7.5 with the rocks/decor), and is a standard box size rectangle. 

So now, do I wait? Do I keep offering peas? Do I treat for parasites? 

The pet store is quite far from where I live and I've already been there three times for various items. I'd really like to not have to go back for the one item (like bloodworms or shrimp), unless it's something that treats for a specific illness. 

I have not yet tried the food, only peas. But it's been at least a couple (2-3?) weeks since he ate any of his own food. 

Suggestions? And thank you for all your help this far!


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## roadrunner (Apr 25, 2010)

That's great your betta is doing great. You may want to hold on feeding him regular food for couple more days. Fish can go without food for a month, so don't worry, he won't starve. Check some pics of bettas on the net how the healthy tummy should look like (something like this, not too big, but nice and round http://teowayyong.net/Media/fishcatalog/Betta/Male_Fighter_Red.jpg). Remember when feeding: betta stomach is about same size as its eye, so feed accordingly. Note: when feeding pellets, they soak water and increase the size. So if you feeding 5-6 pellets a day, you may cut down or spread it through the day.
As bettaguy mentioned, water quality is very important, so keep the water changes going. Since it's the 10G tank, how much and how often do you change water? is the tank cycled? overfeeding will make your algae problems worse, so definitely try to cut down on food and light or even try "black out" for you tank. There should be thread on this forum on how to do it. Keeping your betta in darker tank can help him too and eliminate stress.

As for treatments, I try to stay away from chemicals as much as I can and use them only when necessary. Also it's very important to know what exactly you need to treat before you reach for chemicals. I've had bettas for years, my oldest betta was 5+ years old when he died. Over the years I've learned that clean tank, stable temperature, small amounts of variety food keeps them happy for a very long time. And of course don't forget love! betta needs attention too, so say hi to them whenever you can


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