# 2 fish dead, possibly three soon, in the past 2 days.



## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

So, I have a 33gallon community tank which has been running for about 3 months now, fully cycled and everyone seems happy. yesterday I found my dalmation molly dead at the bottom of the tank, so I did a test on the water found my nitrates were in the 100+ area, did two 20% water changes and got it back to 20-30 area. now today I come home from work to find one of my puffers laying on the bottom of their 10gal tank dead, his body smelled and looked like it had started to decompose, I scooped him out and disposed of the body, looked at my others to see a extremely skinny one laying under some java fern, took him out tried to hand feed him, he took one little bite of the snail I had for him. Now I know I messed up, somehow the Idiots at ******** convinced me that 6 puffers were perfect for a 10gallon, they aren't all that agrressive towards eachother, and I feed them snails on a regular basis, but I guess one was shy and hadn't been eating, so I put him in a breeder box in my 33 gallon temporarily with a ton of baby pond snails hopefully he will recoop. The other 4 in the tank look healthy as can be with round tummies from all the ramshorn I just fed them. I am looking to get rid of 2 of the healthy ones as I feel they may be more aggressive with eating in the future and id like to focus on two to make it more effective, so if anyone wants 2 pea puffers let me know.

Also, how common is deaths with tanks established so recently, I know its part of the hobby to have a few deaths along the way but it really hits me hard when I see one of my little guys passing away due to my inability to provide them with what they need.


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## nigerian prince (Mar 8, 2013)

whats your water change shedual? could have something to do with it


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

once a week I do 25%


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

Your nitrates were way too high, did you test for Nitrite and Ammonia as well? I have a feeling your biological filtration is not enough for your tank. Puffers are messy eaters and leave a lot of leftovers to rot. Also any live uneaten snails left to roam the tank will contribute to the mess. I'd recommend a larger tank or less puffers and upping the W/C % or frequency.


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

I had 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, the test on the puffers tank is perfect, it was the 33gallon community which had the high nitrates


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

Ive had a large snail nuke my whole tank before. You gotta keep an eye on dead snails there deadly  no pun intended


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

I usually give them the small snails for a day or so then remove them


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

Canadian731 said:


> I had 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, the test on the puffers tank is perfect, it was the 33gallon community which had the high nitrates


Sorry. I'd still up the w/c % or frequency and reduce feeding sizes. How many fish are in the 33G?


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

total, probably about 20 - 25, running an AC 50 and 30 on it


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Wash your AC's media out with tank water, sounds like you've got a nitrate factory going on.


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

do you gravel vaccume and rinse sponges in used water?


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Okay, since the fish that died were a molly (brackish) and a dwarf puffer (neutral to medium-hard water) I'm guessing that your water is soft. What are you using if anything to buffer and/or harden the water here?

I'd say it's very abnormal to have this much death going on in proper conditions. Even in an overstocked tank, I'd put the deaths down to aggression or unsuitable water rather than nitrates or disease or something.

That's not to say that it's not normal to lose fish when you're just starting out in the hobby. That is normal and you should try not to feel too bad, but just use this as a learning experience and do better research next time.


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

I was the pre filters weekly, havent touched the other filters yet, ill wash the 50 out tonight for sure


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

darn! you and I are on the same boat(pea puffer) I moved the sunken belly one to my 90G tank in breeding box.. he/she is not even eating snail. hopefully, j&l has some brine shrimp kit in stock tomorrow.


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## Rockman (May 19, 2013)

Hmmm... it does sound like your 33 is at least somewhat overstocked. You've said you've got 20-25 fish in there... what species/sizes are we talking about here?


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

Nothing I've read on pea puffers says they need hard water?


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

1 molly 2 guppies 3 rams 7 neons 4 Cory Dora 4 khuli loaches a BNP and a snail, and an adf


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

google says KH should be between 5-15, but it did not mention about GH.. I gotta get baking soda or put a coral rock that i took out from my 90G tank.


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't want to be rude but where exactly have you been getting info from?

My source says basic to medium-hard water.

_pH: C. travancoricus prefers neutral to medium-hard water, within the range 6.8 - 8.0.

Hardness: 5 - 25°H_

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/carinotetraodon-travancoricus/


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

5 isn't that hard though, my kh is 7 and my pH is 7.4


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

With a scale of 5-25 that means 5 is the very, very bare minimum and that something around 12-13 is probably best


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Canadian731 said:


> 5 isn't that hard though, my kh is 7 and my pH is 7.4


No. Five degrees is quite soft. To avoid swings in PH I would never have less than five degrees in even a soft-water tank. You want more like twenty degrees for your puffers, and for a molly that was just totally unsuitable.

Brackish water is extremely hard. Something like a tablespoon of marine salt per gallon. That's just off the top of my head though. You need to research these things.


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

My info came from someone wo had pea puffers for 2+ years, I don't really trustmost websites as the ultimate guide


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm not really asking about the molly, I'm aware he died because of the high nitrates, my question about that was more so as to why they would get so high all of a sudden, theweek before I had 20 before my WC


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

The molly died because you had him in water conditions that were unsuitable. I very highly doubt that his death, or the death of the puffer had anything to do with nitrates.

A reputable website or even better, a BOOK should be your source for info, not a person. I find seriouslyfish.com to be very reliable.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

ahhh! when I first resume this hobby, I thought I only need to worry about dechlorinator and ammonia.  nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH, phosphate, TDS and I have not even got into CO2 yet.. it feels like I'm in back to high school chemistry class( which i hated) lol


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Again, I'm not trying to be rude so please don't be defensive here. You're a beginner and you're asking for help, and I'm just trying to give you a hand.


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

Livyding said:


> The molly died because you had him in water conditions that were unsuitable. I very highly doubt that his death, or the death of the puffer had anything to do with nitrates.
> 
> A reputable website or even better, a BOOK should be your source for info, not a person. I find seriouslyfish.com to be very reliable.


This makes no sense, he was perfectly fine until the nitrates raised to a deadly level, I do add salt in my aquarium, my other molly is just fine as well, they can adapt to non brackish waters just as they can be adapted to salt water

I'm not being defensive or getting angry, I just feel making an assumption as to why he decided to go from perfectly healthy to dead because of the water not being as hard what's ideal is a bit rash.


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

Please do not "FLAME" stores as it breaks our forum rules. The store's name has been removed.

Respectfully,

Stuart


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> ahhh! when I first resume this hobby, I thought I only need to worry about dechlorinator and ammonia.  nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH, phosphate, TDS and I have not even got into CO2 yet.. it feels like I'm in back to high school chemistry class( which i hated) lol


I know it feels overwhelming to try to take it in all at once. I kept goldfish and bettas in bowls and tiny tanks for years before I started doing research (due to trying to set up a shrimp tank and being confused when they kept dying) and I almost died of guilt when I realized all the mistakes I'd made!

It's not so complicated when you get down to it though. Do some research with a freshwater fish atlas, reputable web sites, and so on... Under stock, over filter, and learn the basics on water chemistry... You'll have it down pat in no time. 

Here's a really good, comprehensive article on the basics of water chemistry. It doesn't have to be so complicated, Don't worry about the co2 and all that fancy stuff right now. A practical approach to freshwater aquarium water chemistry


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

They can adapt... That's different from saying that they can live in completely foreign conditions. A hard water fish can never adapt to living in soft, acidic water. I would bet anything that the cause of death was due to that, yes.


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

My apologies, would saying that you should take the staffs info not a reputable source more tasteful? While I wasn't trying to flame, I do think its important for people to know a lot of the info they give out is false and is done as such to boost their sales rather then give you the proper info,

as such I completely know its my fault foe going against what I had learned through my research


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

May I ask why you think that the nitrate levels being over 100 had nothing to do with his death though? Again I'm not saying their water should be harder, but I hadn't tested my hardness on that tank as I imagine the local place I got them from had similar water conditions. I'll definitely have to test that tank tomorrow as I do add salt to it so I imagine the hardness would be a bit more. That was the hardness of the puffer tank, from what I've read salt isn't really recommended for scaleless fish which is why I never added it to my puffers tank


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Nitrates being too high leads to long-term problems like HLLE. Before 1980 or so, people never did water changes because they thought it was bad. If nitrates were instantly lethal, none of their fish would have ever lived more than a few months. 

I say the cause was unsuitable water because your water is soft, and the only fish to die was the one that absolutely must have hard, alkaline water. And why didn't all of your fish die if nitrates were the killer?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

hey canadian731, 

what did the person who has kept pea puffer for 2 years say? feeding, his parameter.. etc..


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

His parameters were very similar to mine, his water was a bit harder, about 12-14 I believe, feeding wasostly brine shrimp and blood worms, but it seems to take time for them to be comfortable eating the frozen bloodworms.

One thing I've noticed is that they prefer to "hunt" their food such as live snails and such


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

Honestly , if I were to guess why one died and this one is skinny its due to being overstocked and them being bullied away from the food, hopefully I can fond someone to take two and just raise two in that tank, the 4 I have in there now seem healthy and happy, which is why I came to that conclusion


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks for the info canadian731! I will have to boost kh for sure.. because I can't find the cone feeder(which one of LFS says they will get in stock sometime next week), I have been using a tweezer to feed them. i grab few frozen blood worms with it and wiggle them in the water a bit for them to take it from the tweezer. it works for me so far except the one who is in breeding box..


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

I even tried the tweezers and it didnt fly with my puffers, they love their snails though, currently breeding them like rabbits in a betta box


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

darn pea puffer! being so picky on eating.. they are sometimes like my younger daughter(Alicia)! wouldn't eat her vegi... lol
guess who first wanted pea puffers??? Alicia lol. they are both cute and lovely though


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

they have awesome personalities on them, they will come up to the glass look me up and down and wait for their snail in the morning, and they sleep like little rocks on the bottom of the tank


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

Agreed! the second thing I see ( the first is my 2 girls jumping) is 2 pea puffers looking at me (even before my wife lol)
that's why I'm anxiously looking at the breeding box as we speak


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

my little guy is in the same boat, in a breeder box in the the 33 with my baby pond snails


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

hey canadian731, how's your pea puffer? hopefully, yours are ok now.. mine just died this morning...


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## Durogity (Jun 10, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> hey canadian731, how's your pea puffer? hopefully, yours are ok now.. mine just died this morning...


Sorry to hear that, so sad when we lose the fish we love so much.

And yes, Canadian731 I hope yours is doing better as well


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## Canadian731 (Jun 25, 2013)

My 4 guys in the 10gallon are doing great, the skinny little guy died earlier in the week, wasn't eating so I saw it coming


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