# Advice DSM for low tech tank



## blueberry (Nov 3, 2015)

Hi, My daughter and I just planted monte carlo in powder soil, 5g tank, 3 days ago. We decided to try the dry start method but we are not going to use CO2 when we fill with water. So wondering when we add water, will the plants just melt? Should we just have not bothered with the dry start method if we are doing low tech tank? Just wanted them to root first so they don't float up. Just read a few things that have discouraged me. So would like some advice please. Also plants not looking to good today thinking maybe to much light to begin with. How long should I keep lights on? Read 12 hrs and also 6- 8. Should I fill with water now or wait a month? 

Thanks


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

You should cover the tank with saran wrap and spray plant to keep them moist.Once you start to see growth and plants are rooted you should be OK to slowly add water.Be sure to add co2 once tank is filled for it wI'll be harder for them to get co2 now submerged.I have done this with baby tears and the growth is slow.With patience they will soon adapt and will need trimming to maintain the carpet look.Enjoy.


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## blueberry (Nov 3, 2015)

Thanks for your reply, this is what I was concerned about as I am not going to be using co2(do not have co2). Will I benefit from this method or not? I guess I will hope for the best once I fill with water. Can you recommend cheap co2 kit as I haven't really researched it? The only one I saw for sale was fluval one. Looks expensive for refills and not sure how long one of those last. Was hoping to not have to use co2 tho as it my daughters tank and it complicates things a bit more.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 24, 2015)

Most carpet plants including monte carlo require added CO2. There are low light plants that you could get that don't require CO2 such as java fern and anubias, among others.


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## troutsniffer (Dec 10, 2015)

Could always do diy co2. On a 5g tank why not. Just don't do the sugar and yeast method, you can't add a solenoid to shut it off.


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## Bobsidd (Dec 28, 2012)

I've grown Monte Carlo without co2. It is slow-growing, but does reasonably well. I've tried lots of foreground plants in non-co2 aquariums and monte carlo has done quite well compared to some of the others. 

Whether to go for DSM or not? I'd say, it depends on your source of plants. If you bought from a member who had been growing the plants submerged, then keep them submerged. If it has been growing emersed, then you'd probably want to keep the DSM going. The transition to submerged and non-co2 will be tricky, but, hopefully, you'll have the plant mass to make the conversion. 

My thoughts. Hope they help. maybe you could start a journal and show us your results. I would definitely be interested. 

Cheers,
Rob


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## Geoffrey (Jun 24, 2015)

That's interesting. I've often heard monte carlo melts without CO2. What other foreground plants do well (even if they're slow growing) without CO2?


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## Bobsidd (Dec 28, 2012)

Monte Carlo has been the best "true" foreground plant. Dwarf hair grass survives but is super slow. Zero luck with HC, but heard it can be done. Mosses work well too.


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## MDT (Aug 8, 2014)

I have some experience with HC cuba and DHG mini with and without (DIY) CO2, and both dry-start and submerged, so here's some insight of my experience with DSM and carpeting plants:

If you dry-start a small carpeting plant like HC cuba, let it grow in entirely before filling it with water if you are *NOT* offering CO2 when submerged. It unfortunately will take a long time, about 3 months, but it will be worth it.
The reason being is because the carpet will grow in firmly and thick this way, you will experience less melting and you wont be set back with trying to grow it submerged without CO2, which is very difficult for some plants.
Just to note though, HC cuba specifically cannot be maintained long term without CO2 in my experience.

From what I've heard, monte can maintain its shape and form without CO2 but it needs to be well established, hence I recommend letting it firmly carpet. However, if you can afford to put the time into maintaining a DIY CO2 system then I would highly recommend you research citric acid and baking soda kits.

I've experimented with yeast before, hated it. It stinks, it's unstable, it's messier and requires heat to maintain optimal output. Citric acid and baking soda is so much more efficient. It simple, clean and lasts longer (about 1.5-2x longer depending on your usage). It just needs to be measured out properly and some back pressure to start it up.

You will notice that your plants grow much healthier and better too by using CO2. One challenge you will face is how to diffuse DIY CO2 properly into an aquarium. Glass/ceramic diffusers are inefficient imo, especially with DIY as there just isn't enough pressure build up. However, diffusion of CO2, in my experience, is the most important aspect about having CO2. Low laying carpet plants don't have easy access to the water column so getting CO2 into their small stems is a challenge. If you want some ideas, let me know. I've experimented extensively into DIY CO2 diffusion.

If you'd like to do some local reading about all this, here is my ADA 45F journal.

And here is just a picture of what DIY CO2, good diffusion and maintenance can get you:

http://i.imgur.com/CDdmT5ih.jpg


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## blueberry (Nov 3, 2015)

Great info! Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Would flourish excel be a good option maybe?


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## MDT (Aug 8, 2014)

I only used Excel a few times but stopped shortly after because it just was not effective enough for carpeting plants. There are more downsides than upsides I find.
For example, it will cost you more long term to use Excel. It's also harmful to some plants, like moss. And shrimp hate the stuff.
Despite this, it does help grow less demanding plants. But I can't speak specifically for monte carlo. I just know that you wont get a good HC carpet with Excel. 
There have been many attempts documented around the internet too, results are often similar.


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## troutsniffer (Dec 10, 2015)

marsilea crenata is a good foreground plant. All mine melted when I went to higher light though, not sure if that's why or something else happened that I didn't notice. No co2 needed.


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

I would try pearlweed.I grow it with no co2 and it grows like crazy.If you have strong lighting I am sure you can get it to carpet if you don't mind constant trimming.


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