# Everything is dying



## covertune

What more can I say.. it looks like everything in my tank is dying. The one plant that looks the best right now is, ironically, the tall grassy one that I've been expecting to die because it apparently is not aquatic!

I put my rocks in the tank a week ago after doing the "vinegar test" and scrubbing them all.

Since Saturday, my water parameters have been bad, but I figured maybe there was some biological matter on the rocks that was causing an ammonia spike and it would just take a bit of time for the tank to cycle. Ammonia has been around 0.25ppm, Nitrite has gotten up to 5.0ppm and Nitrate around 40ppm. Temp has been around 78-79 degrees, which I just turned down a bit this morning.

Here's a look at all my poor plants.. should I do daily water changes? Try fertilizer? Anything??

My anubias nana petite has developed this fuzzy looking stuff..


Marsilea quadrifolia, which I just added on Sunday




My other anubias nana petite


And my larger anubias (sorry it's blurry, but it shows the gross yellow colour and brown spots)


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## DR1V3N

What's your pH at Stacey?


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## covertune

The pH is 8.. which I was told not to mess with, but perhaps that's an ok level for the fish, but not for plants?

And to be clear, I don't have any fish yet.. substrate, rocks, and plants - that's it.


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## Fish rookie

Very sorry to see that.
Anabuis does not need lots of light or ferts or Co2 to grow so I dont think your lack of ferts is the problem.
I would change the water, clean out all the ugly stuff (the white moldy stuff and cut off all the yellow leaves) first. 
Your plants are very slow growing and they do not really do much to absorb nitrate or cycle your tank in my opinion. If there are some junks in your water column they might grow quickly due to a lack of competition. Personally I would put some stem plants that are fast growing in the tank. I will also work on the circulation in my tank to eliminate dead spots so all plants are swaying a bit. I will add some friendly bacteria in my water colume, and also keep up with my water change with good quality water.
If you are not going to add fish you dont need to worry about your ammonia and those things but PH, and hardness, could affect your plants' growth. I perfer to grow my plants in an acidic envirnoment with soft water but I guess it depends on the plant as well.
Did you add any chemicals in your tank that might be leeching out. I seem to remember you menitoned about using some glue to glue your rocks...do you think if the glue is water safe?
Also, you are not adding any salt in your tank, are you?
I dont know what kind of rocks are those but you can take them out first to see if that would keep your plants from dying.
Personally i feel that in order to grow plants well you need to have "good water" which means water that is free of bad bacteria and contaminates...and consists of a big colony of good friendly bacterias as well as all the minerals and ions that give you a good redox balance and the appropriate hardness for your plants and fish to live and grow happily. For me personally, to keep your water in "good condition" is the fundation of a good happy tank, which is what I would be look at. 
Just my opinion.
Hope your tank will look better soon.


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## covertune

I haven't found a single stem/fast growing plant in any of my searches, and I'm not in a position financially to order any at the moment.

I'm pretty sure all of my plants are getting a bit of movement/swaying.

No salt added to the tank.

I did research the glue prior to use and it is one that people use for aquarium decorations.

I DO want fish, just haven't gotten them yet because of my water conditions.

I've used Prime and Nutrafin Cycle in the tank to add good bacteria and that seemed fine for the first week.


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## vdub

There's nothing you can do. Looking at the current state of your plants, the anubias rhizomes are rotting to the point where it's unsalvageable.

Looks like all your plants are melting away. If you bought them from a pet shop, chances are they got them from a nursery and 100% they would have been grown emersed(out of water). Judging from the pictures, all your plants are definitely in emersed form and as such, their emersed leaves are melting away and new submersed leaves should grow back in.

I don't really pay attention to water chemistry but a pH of 8 is high for most plants. Since you are dealing with slow growing plants, it'll be a while before you see some new growth unless you pump in some CO2.

As a recommendation, next time when you purchase plants, it would be best for you to buy them from people here on the forum and not the pet shop. Guaranteed they will have been grown submerged and you wouldn't have to deal with any melting.


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## DR1V3N

8 is bordering the high side and is likely your culprit for the anubias and marsilea quad not doing as well as they should. Your unknown grassy plant is the exception.

Most LFS plants sold do best in pH 7 or slightly below. So pH 7 should be your target range.

You've been told not to mess with pH which is true but you may have unintentionally messed with it. Test your pH out of the tap. I'm guessing Salmon Arm's water can't be too different from the Lower Mainland. Ours is mostly neutral (pH 7) out of the tap and very soft.

If your tap water is around 7 then something in your tank (most likely the rocks) are buffering your kH and pH dragging it up. The vinegar test is decent if you splash or soak the whole rock, remember those rocks are made up of several sedimentary layers. A better test is to soak the rocks in a suitable container and test pH after 24 hours.

Your substrate looks like gravel or flourite so i doubt that's what is increasing your kh and ph.

If it is your rocks, you can either remove them and water change or find plants that work with your ph/kh range.


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## charles

Salmon arm ph is 8 to 8.2. It is like alberta water there. Very different than the Vancouver water.
I dont use glue. It might be the reason. The glue might leach something out. It also might be your ph. Plants really doesnt like that high of ph.


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## DR1V3N

charles said:


> Salmon arm ph is 8 to 8.2. It is like alberta water there. Very different than the Vancouver water.
> I dont use glue. It might be the reason. The glue might leach something out. It also might be your ph. Plants really doesnt like that high of ph.


Oh damn that's high. Must be a lot of African cichlid keepers there.

I've used super glue in my tanks, as long as you let it cure it shouldn't be a problem.

Melting at the roots is a survival mechanism for most plants. They detach from the substrate and hopefully drift away into more ideal water conditions.

If your tap water ph is 8, I suggest you research ph buffers. Or better yet try to work with your pH and research plants that will work better with that range.


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## Lamplighter

vdub said:


> Looks like all your plants are melting away. If you bought them from a pet shop, chances are they got them from a nursery and 100% they would have been grown emersed(out of water). Judging from the pictures, all your plants are definitely in emersed form and as such, their emersed leaves are melting away and new submersed leaves should grow back in.


Bein another member said the same thing about the plants being grown out of water. My plants rotted away or are in a stage of melting.

I can tell you that it makes me angry that pet shops would sell plants like that. I'm out a couple of hundred bucks. I wont waste my time by suing but I should. There's the loss of the plants plus the time for picking them up and planting them.

The bottom line is that the store owners has my money. They might think they are smart but they need me more than I need them.


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## April

Well some petshops get lousy plants. Some small towns have lousy plants I've been told . 
But I disagree on all grown emerged. Maybe they were and the plants were from a transshipped or something. When I order plants in...my lists from our supplier lists emerged or submerged. And I order the submerged if I can.


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## Fish rookie

vdub said:


> There's nothing you can do. Looking at the current state of your plants, the anubias rhizomes are rotting to the point where it's unsalvageable.
> 
> Looks like all your plants are melting away. If you bought them from a pet shop, chances are they got them from a nursery and 100% they would have been grown emersed(out of water). Judging from the pictures, all your plants are definitely in emersed form and as such, their emersed leaves are melting away and new submersed leaves should grow back in.
> 
> I don't really pay attention to water chemistry but a pH of 8 is high for most plants. Since you are dealing with slow growing plants, it'll be a while before you see some new growth unless you pump in some CO2.
> 
> As a recommendation, next time when you purchase plants, it would be best for you to buy them from people here on the forum and not the pet shop. Guaranteed they will have been grown submerged and you wouldn't have to deal with any melting.


Going a bit off topic but I dont think all plants are grown above water in nursiies...may be some are but I dont believe 100% are...some plants simply will not grow above water.
I could be wrong but I beleiev even if the plants you have were grown submerged if they dont like your water they may still melt or do funny things.


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## April

Your high ph, high nitrates, high everything may be making your plants unhappy. 
Also that cycle isn't really the best bacteria source. It may be an improved version these days... But it's mainly water and dead bacteria. Two biologists tried to grow the bacteria on agar and nothing. 
You'd be better to get some sponge or squeezings from someone's cycled tank. 
I'd do a big wc . How did your nitrates etc get to 40. We're you doing a fish less cycle?


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## DR1V3N

This is getting a bit derailed.

In the interest of the OP getting proper unbiased info here is 2 cents:

Healthy plants are healthy plants regardless of how they are grown. If you got a plant healthy, and it died completely, any biologist will tell you that you need to revisit your lighting/ water chem. / fertilisation regimen and probably in that priority.

Cell tissue cultured (CTC) plant pots also commonly known as emersed grown plants are getting popular because they:

Ship much better.
You know precisely what species you are getting and algae free.
You are warranted not to get pests.

There is a brief transition point plants will undergo from emersed to submerged form. It's normal and with correct lighting/water chem./ferts your plants will look amazing in time.

For member bought or store bought submerged plants, you potentially take all those benefits away. The plants can potentially transition to your tank better but again owing to proper lighting/water chem./ferts.


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## covertune

Yes, the pH from the tap here is 8.

You guys have to understand that I do not have easy access to the same things you all do.. there is no one nearby where I can get "top of the line" plants, or a bacteria squeeze. I don't know a single hobbyist within four hours of me.

The Nutrafin Cycle actually did work to cycle my tank I believe.. I used it over a week ago and my tank cycled with 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and I think 5 Nitrate. I haven't done anything since then but add the rocks and one new plant.


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## covertune

This is where all my plants have come from (via 3 different semi-LFSs); AquaFlora - Nurseries & Micropropagation

Also, I do see new growth on both anubias nana petite, and just the other day noticed a new leaf coming on the bigger anubias.

*sigh* This is so disappointing.


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## DR1V3N

Can't imagine how hard it would be to source good stuff out in Salmon Arm so I feel for you .

Best thing is to work with the pH out of your tap or use natural buffers/softeners like peat after you research it.

Your selection of plants that do well gets limited at pH 8 and above.

You can try searching here: AquaScaping World Plantpedia: An Aquarium Plant Guide

Mykiss (Patrick) with Canadian Aquatics can ship you plants too. His selection comes from Aquaflora Nurseries. They are CTC plant pots and are great to work with and ship well.


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## Fish rookie

covertune said:


> This is where all my plants have come from (via 3 different semi-LFSs); AquaFlora - Nurseries & Micropropagation
> 
> Also, I do see new growth on both anubias nana petite, and just the other day noticed a new leaf coming on the bigger anubias.
> 
> *sigh* This is so disappointing.


If you can see new growth then they are not dying...dont give up. .

Does anyone know what those white stuff at the root end of the anubias is? Even at high Ph that should nto be there...


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## DR1V3N

The white stuff is most likely a fungus or mold similar to when you put new driftwood in the tank. If it's not growing or spreading, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It should go away in time or you can try brushing it off.

Your anubias should be okay without you doing anything.

The clovers might die off as they are usually only tolerant up to pH 7.5 i think.

Like Fish Rookie said, don't give up. It's a learning curve.

Hope this all helps.


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## Fish rookie

You may just need to give it a bit of time...may be take out the rocks and remove all the dead leaves, and the white stuff, try to put some peat moss in your filter and see if things would get better.
Good luck with the tank.


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## Fish rookie

DR1V3N said:


> This is getting a bit derailed.
> 
> In the interest of the OP getting proper unbiased info here is 2 cents:
> 
> Healthy plants are healthy plants regardless of how they are grown. If you got a plant healthy, and it died completely, any biologist will tell you that you need to revisit your lighting/ water chem. / fertilisation regimen and probably in that priority.
> 
> Cell tissue cultured (CTC) plant pots also commonly known as emersed grown plants are getting popular because they:
> 
> Ship much better.
> You know precisely what species you are getting and algae free.
> You are warranted not to get pests.
> 
> There is a brief transition point plants will undergo from emersed to submerged form. It's normal and with correct lighting/water chem./ferts your plants will look amazing in time.
> 
> For member bought or store bought submerged plants, you potentially take all those benefits away. The plants can potentially transition to your tank better but again owing to proper lighting/water chem./ferts.


So true...healthy plants are healthy plants. Sometimes even if they are a bit unhealthy they could still grow well gievn good conditions once they arrive in yoru tank. Buying from someone who has grown them submerged is nto a bad ide either but then you may get snail, algae and what not from someone else's tank, too so it is not alwasy a better option.

Anyway, dont give up. If you are seeing new growth then may be they are just coping with their new envirnoment.


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## effox

I loved my Aqua Flora plants. Great product and certainly ship very well.


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## covertune

Well, I just completed a huge water change. I removed the two tiny anubias' that were nearly liquified they were so rotten, and when I tried to clean up the other anubias', they completely fell apart in my hands.  So now I have no anubias in my tank, when they're supposed to be the easiest plants there are! I also trimmed off as much of the gross looking stuff from the other plants as I could.

Pretty naked looking tank now.

I put some water in a small bucket with a chunk of the rock, so tomorrow I'll test that water and see if anything is going on there. Of course, I'll test the tank again tomorrow as well.


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## vdub

Lets make it clear for the newbies. The *majority *of plants sold at petshops will be in their emersed forms. Why? They ship easier like that, they grow a lot faster in the nursury and it's just easier for nurseries to grow plant's emersed (no worrying about nutrients, algae, CO2, bugs, ect).

It's also an industry standard, you'll find most wholesalers and nurseries listing their products as emersed for the same reasons as I stated above. So it's really not the pet shop's fault for your plant dying on you. It's industry standards and that's just what they receive in their shipment. If anyone has a problem then they should take it up with the wholesalers or nursery.

I'll admit, not all plants are grown emersed. The ones that can be will be grown emersed while the ones that can't (vallisneria, lotus, aponogetons ect.), those ones are sold as submersed labeled or not.

There's also no such thing as "lousy" plants, if you were crammed in a box and moved half way across a continent in the dark, you too wouldn't be in your best condition. All plants sold in petshops would look a bit weary but with a little care it'll bounce back, just like fish.

Lastly to cover the part where everyone is talking about water chemistry and cycling. I've never had any problem growing anubias, I just put them in straight tap water, no conditioning, no fertilizers, nothing and they've all grown. However, a pH of 8 is a bit high.

Don't be discouraged. It's a learning experience. A couple hundred dollars spent on a few plants doesn't really sound reasonable but that's ok, I've spent around a thousand dollars and haven't even recuperated 1/20 of that and I don't think I ever will but that's just part of enjoying a hobby. I've bought and dealt with almost every plant species in this hobby (or the ones that are commercially available and some rare ones), with a little more time in the hobby you'll be able to figure out how the system works.


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## Lamplighter

vdub said:


> Lets make it clear for the newbies. The *majority *of plants sold at petshops will be in their emersed forms. Why? They ship easier like that, they grow a lot faster in the nursury and it's just easier for nurseries to grow plant's emersed (no worrying about nutrients, algae, CO2, bugs, ect).
> 
> It's also an industry standard, you'll find most wholesalers and nurseries listing their products as emersed for the same reasons as I stated above. So it's really not the pet shop's fault for your plant dying on you. It's industry standards and that's just what they receive in their shipment. If anyone has a problem then they should take it up with the wholesalers or nursery.
> 
> I'll admit, not all plants are grown emersed. The ones that can be will be grown emersed while the ones that can't (vallisneria, lotus, aponogetons ect.), those ones are sold as submersed labeled or not.
> 
> There's also no such thing as "lousy" plants, if you were crammed in a box and moved half way across a continent in the dark, you too wouldn't be in your best condition. All plants sold in petshops would look a bit weary but with a little care it'll bounce back, just like fish.
> 
> Lastly to cover the part where everyone is talking about water chemistry and cycling. I've never had any problem growing anubias, I just put them in straight tap water, no conditioning, no fertilizers, nothing and they've all grown. However, a pH of 8 is a bit high.
> 
> Don't be discouraged. It's a learning experience. A couple hundred dollars spent on a few plants doesn't really sound reasonable but that's ok, I've spent around a thousand dollars and haven't even recuperated 1/20 of that and I don't think I ever will but that's just part of enjoying a hobby. I've bought and dealt with almost every plant species in this hobby (or the ones that are commercially available and some rare ones), with a little more time in the hobby you'll be able to figure out how the system works.


In law the pet shop shares the same liability as the wholesaler.

I spent $ 67.07 on plants 8/19/2012 and they are trashed. That was a small purchase. I have the other receipts filed but I wont look for them unless someone makes it worth my while. I just happened to have the latest one cause I do my accounting at the end of each month.

A couple of hundred on plants is chicken feed but I'm still PO. Plants are expensive!

I've bought plants at Fraser Aquarium that's called Wisteria they are going nuts in one of my aquariums. It grows and grows and grows. I've bought other plants that do well. Petshop has sold me plants that do quite well they are growing and prospering.

There's another store where I bought loads of plants and they are dead. All that there's left is the foam and metal that held the stems together. My favorite plants were green leaves but they were also red. My tanks looked really good and then they started to look like junk.


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## Lamplighter

April said:


> Well some petshops get lousy plants. Some small towns have lousy plants I've been told .
> But I disagree on all grown emerged. Maybe they were and the plants were from a transshipped or something. When I order plants in...my lists from our supplier lists emerged or submerged. And I order the submerged if I can.


I started in business when I was around 16. When you're in business it's all about reputation. It's not easy to be in a retail business mainly due to the large rent that eats a large chunk of sales. I can see where some shops cut corners but it comes back to bite them when dealing with me. I'm not very forgiving.

I realize that it costs money to produce plants and that the home grown ones would retail for a lot more.

The average consumer don't know the difference in regards to how a plant was grown, including myself. I'm learning! I bought 40 bucks worth of plants from someone here the other day. I'm happy!

I also know all about competition. If store "A" sells a plant for $5.00 and store "B" want's "$8.00" we know where people will head, unless the store has a captive audience.

There is however ONE thing that I do not understand, regarding plants. Why do the plants look good in the store and deteriorate at home?


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## Fish rookie

Lamplighter, I dont know about others but I dont plant my plants with the sponge and metal thing in place.

The plants look good in the store likely because they are being looked aftrer properly.


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## Reckon

Hi Stacey, I'm not expert but I recently went through something similar (though my Anubias seemed to be hardier and survived). Can you tell me how many water changes you did in the last 2 weeks prior to melt and whether you used Excel?
In attempt to clear out algae, I did a water change every day to 2 days and dosed excel at night. I think this is what caused melt in my plants. Things got better for me when I stopped dosing excel, backed off from water changes and dosed flourish. Sorry, I'll update my thread, I was very busy this last weekend and was waiting for time to take pictures.


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## Lamplighter

Fish rookie said:


> Lamplighter, I dont know about others but I dont plant my plants with the sponge and metal thing in place.


 I was told to plant them that way!


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## Captured Moments

I don't think the PH has anything to do with the plants not growing.
Did you take those pictures with a flash?..seems bright so it would be good to know the lighting setup. If it is indeed bright in there, it's surprising there is no algae growing on the rocks or the glass given the low amount of plants in there and the fact that they are not thriving.
What type of substrate is that? Are you considering a low tech setup or going high tech with Co2?
In my opinion you should focus on 3 key factors: Light, carbon source (Co2) or nothing if considering a low tech method, and nutrients.
Let us know about the light and the type of nutrients you can get your hands on in Salmon Arm.
You should be getting more constructive responses once you detail all aspects of your tank.


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## covertune

Until today, I hadn't done a water change in probably a week and a half? Didn't know if I was supposed to or not. And no, I haven't used Excel.

The lighting is LED - 20 x .11w white + 2 x .11w blue = 165 lumens
Since this is my first tank, I don't have anything to compare it to, but I think it's a low-moderate level of lighting.

The substrate is SeaChem Flourite, which I know is good stuff for planted tanks.

I definitely want to go low-tech.. I'd really like to be able to have live plants, but I do want to have fish, and enjoy my tank without it being constant work and worry.


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## Ebonbolt

Lamplighter said:


> I was told to plant them that way!


The metal piece is often lead, and I highly doubt having lead in the tank is good for anything. Plus, many plants sold wrapped in a sponge + sinker are actually several plants bundled together, so removing the binding and planting them separately is probably a good idea, since more of the tank can be planted, plus each individual plant is allowed to prosper and spread out.


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## Reckon

My dad was running his 150gal tank on only 80watts and his anubias didn't die. I don't think it's a light issue. I guess is nutrient deficiency? Again, I'm no expert but I would suggest getting a bottle of Seachem Flourish and dose with that? You just run the risk of overdosing and getting algae but if your plants don't do better you know it's either light or pH? If the plants get better after a couple water changes maybe its the glue? Maybe someone with more experience can chime in on using Flourish? I'm just throwing what seemed to work for me out there but I'm a noob as well.



covertune said:


> Until today, I hadn't done a water change in probably a week and a half? Didn't know if I was supposed to or not. And no, I haven't used Excel.
> 
> The lighting is LED - 20 x .11w white + 2 x .11w blue = 165 lumens
> Since this is my first tank, I don't have anything to compare it to, but I think it's a low-moderate level of lighting.


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## Lamplighter

BelieveInBlue said:


> The metal piece is often lead, and I highly doubt having lead in the tank is good for anything. Plus, many plants sold wrapped in a sponge + sinker are actually several plants bundled together, so removing the binding and planting them separately is probably a good idea, since more of the tank can be planted, plus each individual plant is allowed to prosper and spread out.


I think the strips are Zinc. A bit of lead wouldn't hurt anything especially since all the water is changed once a week. I used to keep fish when lead was used but it didn't seem to pose as a problem them.

I like the idea of the sponge and the zinc it makes a nice bunch of plants.


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## Fish rookie

Lamplighter said:


> A bit of lead wouldn't hurt anything especially since all the water is changed once a week. I used to keep fish when lead was used but it didn't seem to pose as a problem them.
> 
> I like the idea of the sponge and the zinc it makes a nice bunch of plants.


You change 100% water every week?

I was told to keep the sponge by a pet store but I never did that, it just makes no sense to me...they make nice bunches without the spong or metal weight anyway...but what do I know? I am just a newbie.


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## macframalama

this is exactly why i dont do plants i am a killer , i feel for ya fishrookie.... i feel for ya

the only thing i cant kill is java moss, but i dont think you can kill it


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## DR1V3N

Sorry to hear your anubias melted.

However, if your lighting was the major problem your anubias would certainly be the last to die. Your clovers would have been dead much sooner.
165 lumens/lux would generally be considered low but is relative to your tank size. Example: High light in a standard 24"X12" 20 gallon tank would require 715 lumens + but less would be needed to achieve high light in a 10 gallon. Based on scale of plants in your photos, my best guess is your tank is between 5-10 gallons. If so, this lighting is more than ample for low-tech and low-light plants.

If it was a nutrient deficiency you would see more yellowing and shrivelled leaves emerging but not a sudden quick melt.
Some of your leaves showed this while some didn't. This is likely because you buried the root systems for some of them. *Anubias of all species are best planted with roots/rhizomes tied to driftwood or rocks with most of the root system exposed to water*.

The only other explanation for your anubias suddenly melting could be found here: Anubias SP. Disease Problems: Root Rot, Melting Leaf, Soft Rhizome & Loosen Stem. - General Aquarium Plants Discussions - Aquatic Plant Central

I've never seen or experienced it myself but it's the only other possible cause that I can think of. My gf did manage to kill one anubias plantlet from dropping it into a concentrated excel/water solution, it melted completely 2 days after.

I know there's no use talking about it now that yours melted but I hope this gives you some closure at least.

Moving forward, I suggested you look into pH and gradually into other areas of water chemistry as they are the key factors to your low-tech ecosystem since lighting and fertilisation aren't a big issue for you. Here is a good read if you want to go into further detail: Water Chemistry & The Planted Tank

Example:










This is my dwarf cray breeding tank. I kept it super low-tech ('cause hey, it's end goal is to help me breed cray fish ). 
No fertilisation. No Co2. Stock halogen light bulbs 2 years old .
Lighting 7 hours a day. 10% water change a week. Maintenance takes 15 mins a week. Add a little gh booster for the cray fish. 
The lumen/lux equivalent is probably less than yours if I bother doing the math.

*At this point I pushed the pH to 7.6 for my little crays benefit. The plants growth slowed and almost stunted.*

*I gradually let the pH normalize to 7 and within 1 month the plants took off noticeably:*










Plants, like fish, have a sweet-spot where they do best. In your next purchase, pick plants to match your water or match your water to your plants.

If you're ever in the lower mainland, PM me and I'd be happy to give you some varieties of low light plants that may work with your pH.

I referenced a website earlier which can help you find plants that work.

Hope this clears it up for you some.


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## covertune

That's a beautiful tank!

So, at this point, should I expect the remainder of my plants to die off?


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## Lamplighter

Fish rookie said:


> You change 100% water every week?
> 
> I was told to keep the sponge by a pet store but I never did that, it just makes no sense to me...they make nice bunches without the spong or metal weight anyway...but what do I know? I am just a newbie.


Well I aim for a 100% but it might be more or less. Now I know for a fact that zinc kills moss but I don't know how many ppm it takes. Bio filters are made from foam so the little bit that's wrapped around the bottom stems should not be a problem.

Here a hair there a hair... To each their own but I would not like single strands planted in my tans.


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## Lamplighter

Fraser Aquarium has their plants near the window and they seem to grow and prosper.

I don't know if dying plants can be saved or not. I however, think there should be more of a focus on saving the plants that are on the way out. 

There are plenty of plants to buy in the city so I can easily replace my plants, which I have.


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## covertune

Results are in. I tested the bucket water with the piece of rock in it.. ammonia (0.25).

Tested the tank, and despite that huge water change yesterday, the results are still not good.
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 5.0
Nitrate 5.0

I've removed the big orange rocks (the stuff that's the same as the piece I tested in the bucket). I'm guessing I should do another water change today?


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## Lamplighter

covertune said:


> Results are in. I tested the bucket water with the piece of rock in it.. ammonia (0.25).
> 
> Tested the tank, and despite that huge water change yesterday, the results are still not good.
> Ammonia 0.25
> Nitrite 5.0
> Nitrate 5.0
> 
> I've removed the big orange rocks (the stuff that's the same as the piece I tested in the bucket). I'm guessing I should do another water change today?


 I change my water all the time sometimes 100% a week. I don't see how it could hurt. PM Bien Lim he knows his plants. I don't get impressed often but I did when I went there to get some plants earlier this week, I did.


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## Nicole

I noticed you don't have fish yet so I don't know if this has been asked yet but do you have a decent amount of water movement in the tank? 
I've experienced that the rhizome from the anubias will begin to rot if there's no water moving between the roots. So if you have a filter or something that's only moving water on one side of the tank, I would move the anubias closer for the filter. 
However by the looks of it from your picture, I don't think there's a way to save it if the rhizome is already rotting. If there's a part that hasn't rot yet, propagate the living rhizome and you still have a chance.
Good luck.


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## Fish rookie

Yes, forgot to mention if there is anythign left of the anubias just save it and keep it it may grow new growth again but may take a while. Just be aptient. I had an anubias that was dying and was full of algae. I got so sick and tired of it I just left it in a small tank and forgot about it. A few months later it is growing just fine and has no algae, with new growth and looks just like a new plant.
Sounds liek there is somethign wrong with your rock. If I were you I would remove the rocks and change the water and see...
Domnt think the ammonia fromt he rock would hurt your platn but there might alos be chemcical sand things like that that you cannot really test...are you running carbon in your filter?


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## Fish rookie

covertune,

Please dont get too discouraged or disappointed.

I have a low tech tank that I dont do anything to other than changing 30% of water once a week. It is a 25 gallon that I put all the extra plants, clippings, un-needed rock and wood, and extra shrimps and fish in. 

It has no Co2, no ferts, with just a pool sand bottom (very cheap sand, like 25 bucks for 50 ibs). The only thing I have added are some root tabs I got from Pat of Canadian Aquatic into the sand. 

The light I use are two light bulbs I bougth from dollarama for $2 each. Filter is just a Xp1 from Rena with sponge, bamboo charcoal ($2 from Daiso), and bio ceramic with a filter floss pad. I do wash it and change the floss once a month but that is about it. 

It is kind of a grow out tank (and my shrimp tank as well as I currently have like 40 shrimps in there )

I just dump wahtever I dotn want in my display tank in this tanl. I have lots of java fern babies and when they get a bit bigger I put them in my Co2 planted tanks. I do the same with anubias. I also place clippings from my Co2 tanks into this tank but not all of them would grow. I just leave them. The R. Macrandra are not doing well but the rest are still alive. There are lots of plants behind the wood/rock but they are too short to be seen from the front. If I use a better light I am sure my plants would grow much faster but then it would also mean more trimming and such so I rather keep it the way it is now. LOL.

I had a 10 gallon just like you not too long ago. I was a complete newbie. Thanks to all the members here I have learnt a lot and things sort of become easier and plants just kind fo stop dying and start growing after a while. Your tank looks way better than my first 10 gallon tank.

A lot tech tank like this is very easy to look after and I am sure you can do a better job than me. Just want to show you that they will grow in time even thoguht they might not look as well as you would like thm to be, so...please dont give up--and dont be discouraged. It is a challenge that I am sure you wiull overcome in no time.

Good luck.


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## gsneufeld

All of your plants actually look pretty good to me, except that Anubias with the rotting leaves. You need to cut off all of the leaves that are dying, with holes eaten in them by snails, the ones that look yellow, and scrub the algae off the anubias leaves so they can get more light, and anubias actually are amphibious planjts, I've found the best way to grow them is in high light, or even floating near the surface... with decent light everything should be well once you remove the dead matter.


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## couch

Your problem falls with that fact that your water chemistry is guaranteed to be very different from the tanks the plants came from. Most (99%) of plants can't adapt to massive adjustments in water chemistry. You would be best off to find out the parameters of the tanks that these plants came from and dulpicate it (then slowly change it over to what comes out of your tap). You could have the perfect planted tank but if they don't have time to adapt they will melt - exactly the way your and your photos describe.

Couch


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## gsneufeld

When I'm not sure if a plant was grown submerged or not, I don't plant it and just leave it floating for a couple weeks, and then some aquatic shoots have grown and can be planted


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## gsneufeld

p.s. I'd bet the farm that your problem is the non-aquatic plant, whatever it is, is decomposing slowly causing the fungus or whatever it is, and I bet there's a very strong 'earthy' smell...take that thing out.


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## covertune

I've been doing water changes, but so far, still have Ammonia at 0.25, Nitrite at 0 and Nitrate at 5


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## covertune

gsneufeld said:


> p.s. I'd bet the farm that your problem is the non-aquatic plant, whatever it is, is decomposing slowly causing the fungus or whatever it is, and I bet there's a very strong 'earthy' smell...take that thing out.


Just saw this. Guess I have nothing to lose by ripping that thing out.. the quadrifolia is still, slowly, melting as well, but nowhere near as badly as it was before.


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## gsneufeld

Good stuff, don't worry about the rest of it, once your tank is in balance everything will sort itself out. And your Nitrites are gone and Nitrates rising, all good stuff, just keep at it and soon the cycle will be done, if you're going to be in the Metrotown area i'd be glad to give you a bit of filter **** to help seed your tank (and i'm sure many others here would also) another thing I've heard can help speed up a cycle is adding a big hunk of floating plants (hornwort/elodea etc)


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## Fish rookie

Are you able to lower your Ph? If you dont want to add chemical can you may be mix your tap with some rain water or something like that?
Some floating plants such as water sprite is very fast growing and can work very well in filtering and cycling your tank. They growing very fast. You only need to float them, very low tech.
Good luck.


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## covertune

I was told not to mess with the pH

I've (hopefully) got some new plants coming by next Wednesday.. Junctus repens, Bacopa australis, and Anubias nana.

I feel as though I'm not seeing any improvement in the water params, and it's been like two weeks now..


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## Fish rookie

If you do not wish to alter the PH of your water, you may want to get fish and plants that can flourish in a high PH (over 8), but your options might be a bit limited. 
You can try to lower the PH to about 7 or so, which should give you more options with your choice of fish and plants. You can do simple things to bring your Ph down, not necessarily by adding lots of chemicals. 
Do you think may be your tap water contains organic waste by the way? Have you tried using stability or API instant start/stress zyme to help seed your biological filter?


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## covertune

Doing my water change today (50%) I noticed a lot of.. crap in the water. There's some kind of film floating on the surface, a lots of tiny white specks.. almost like dust specks, for lack of a better description. Not sure if that's relevant at all..

I also noticed that my biggest, healthiest looking crypt wendtii isn't looking so healthy anymore. As of yesterday it looked great, and now there's one yellowed leaf and one with brown spots all over it.

I snipped off a few more dead quadrofolia stems.

The tap water tested totally clean, and the only thing I'm adding at this point is Prime. Is it possible to overdose with Prime? I've got a 1ml syringe that I'm measuring it with, so I think I'm being pretty precise, but don't know if there's a really slim margin of error with that stuff.

The new plants I've ordered should all be able to tolerate the pH of 8.

Should I just drain the tank at this point, pull out everything (except the substrate), and start all over!? I'm starting to panic a bit as I've got some livestock coming by Wednesday (shrimp and snails) and at this point, all I've got to offer them is a toxic new home! UGH.


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## Fish rookie

covertune said:


> Doing my water change today (50%) I noticed a lot of.. crap in the water. There's some kind of film floating on the surface, a lots of tiny white specks.. almost like dust specks, for lack of a better description. Not sure if that's relevant at all..
> 
> I also noticed that my biggest, healthiest looking crypt wendtii isn't looking so healthy anymore. As of yesterday it looked great, and now there's one yellowed leaf and one with brown spots all over it.
> 
> I snipped off a few more dead quadrofolia stems.
> 
> The tap water tested totally clean, and the only thing I'm adding at this point is Prime. Is it possible to overdose with Prime? I've got a 1ml syringe that I'm measuring it with, so I think I'm being pretty precise, but don't know if there's a really slim margin of error with that stuff.
> 
> The new plants I've ordered should all be able to tolerate the pH of 8.
> 
> Should I just drain the tank at this point, pull out everything (except the substrate), and start all over!? I'm starting to panic a bit as I've got some livestock coming by Wednesday (shrimp and snails) and at this point, all I've got to offer them is a toxic new home! UGH.


You are a responsible owner who wants to provide a good home for the your fish, shrimps and plants. That is cool. I am sorry to hear that you are having all these problems.
I am no expert by any means but if I were you I would take out the rocks and so on, change the water and start over again. Sounds like you are right you may have some weird stuff going on in your tank.
Good luck.


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