# Breeding for profit



## redsnapper

Simply no such thing.... any one that wishes to challange this, by all means go ahead,,, there has been many local members (past and present) that have tried and lets here from them... 
My newly found deffinition of a local breeder is "every body gains but the breeder.... 

Before any one jumps all over this in a negitive way, let me remind you that it was suggested in another post that such a thread might be an enlightenmet for members to realize that being a local breeder is not recommended if you have profit in mind,,, 

Lets here from the members that actually have tried , successfull or not... 
I'm betting no one.. and retail outlets do not count. 

So you local breeders lets speak up now and share with us how to make a profit breeding from your house and actually making a profit...


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## ibenu

Thanks for starting this up Redsnapper, Hopes we can hear from people. I am especially interested in the breeding that is selective, for the best traits and what not. Keep this enlightening. If you have not bred fish, just sit back and read from people who have. 

Posters here should include cichlid breeders, pleco breeders, rams, and what have you! Looking forward to learning more.


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## ninez

Breeders might break even if we have temperature like 25C all year round.
Keep the tanks warm is quite costly.


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## TCR

endlers guppys and swordtails convicts

how to breed

step one. add water 

pretty much thats it

all very easy to breed if your not worrying about colour strains suitable for beginners i would say tho for convicts provide a cave


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## ninez

TCR said:


> endlers guppys and swordtails convicts
> 
> how to breed
> 
> step one. add water
> 
> pretty much thats it
> 
> all very easy to breed if your not worrying about colour strains suitable for beginners i would say tho for convicts provide a cave


as topic says breeding for profit
easy to breed but any profit?


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## redsnapper

TCR said:


> endlers guppys and swordtails convicts
> 
> how to breed
> 
> step one. add water
> 
> pretty much thats it
> 
> all very easy to breed if your not worrying about colour strains suitable for beginners i would say tho for convicts provide a cave/
> 
> Sounds like a gauranteed recipe for profit to me.. and by doing this I can make money even after paying for the sponsorship fee's for the right to sell them on the site.
> 
> I'm still looking for "what determines breed for profit" Rasputan added some good input on the thread that led to this one.. and it is and could become an intersting post...
> But bear in mind a local breeder cannot right off his membership or sponsorship fee's , his expenses , his loses. and as I am strongly pointing out local breeders do not make a profit.. however LPS. MUST OR THEY WOULD GO BANKRUPT....


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## rescuepenguin

Lisa, Thank you for suggesting this thread, between this thread and the one that spawned it, We will be able to see all sides of this issue. Here is my side of the story and it involves my favorite cory, the Corydoras Hastatus. I have seen it advertised, but never seen it in any LFSs, this is due to mislabeling in the supply chain, not at the LFS. It is a very unique cory in that it is a mid swimmer and schools with other fish of similar size. If you have a school of a few dozen they'll often remain stationary and a few of them at a time will do a "little dance". It very addictive to watch. Here is my story with them.

I have imported them and maintained a small breeding colony. I figure so far it has cost about $600 or so. By the time a get a larger more sustainable colony, I will probably be out of pocket about $1,000. If I were to sell them I would have a tough time even breaking even. Other similar corys are being sold for $2 each. I would have to charge more. I would have no end people saying "I can get them for $2 at so and so's store". I could sell them one of our LFSs. The instore credit would be great, but I have no more room for equipment, and no more room for fish, this means food and equipment for maintenance. It however will not go towards paying me back for the money I have put into them.

The other side of the story, I have a healthy colony of Celestial Pearl Danios. I have learned how to breed them and could breed them in numbers. I could sell them for what our non LFS sponsors sell them for and help fund fish like the Corydoras Hastatus. 

I want to do the same thing with Corydoras Xinguensis, as they may become extinct in the wild if the power dam project continues. BTW they have the same habitat and the L46 plecos.

I would love to have a sustainable breeding colony of all 6 species of dwarf corys. I could potentially have 4 possibly 5 by year end. Only 2 species are available locally in the pet trade.

I too periodically get PMs from people wanting to get fish "cheap". I usually don't bite on these PMs as I see the same people often have other fish for sale in the classifieds. I often seams like these few (and only a few) of these people try to get fish at a discount to resell them. That being said, I get far more legitimate inquiries from people who really do want some and pay a reasonable price for them. I do have a long waiting list for some fish. 

I will eventually become a sponsor on here, and came very close at the beginning of summer. I am going to add my name to the list of people that would like to see a breeder category in between donator and sponsor. At the moment I can't afford a sponsorship, but I do buy 3 donator packages. 

Steve


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## ninez

what determines "breeder"? that's another thread eh?
I used to breed severums and ended up giving them away.
I don't think I am a "breeder" in any way tho.


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## TCR

TCR said:


> endlers guppys and swordtails convicts
> 
> how to breed
> 
> step one. add water
> 
> pretty much thats it
> 
> all very easy to breed if your not worrying about colour strains suitable for beginners i would say tho for convicts provide a cave


it can be done but maybe not on bc aquaria


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## Mferko

TCR said:


> it can be done but maybe not on bc aquaria


exactly.

knowing some of the people on this forum, the first person to admit making a proffit is going to get ridiculed and crapped on. alot seem to frown upon the notion making money on a hobby that is a money pit for them...
and ofc anyone who admits to make a small proffit here will be told to pay for a sponsorship and that will be the end of that lol.

king eds pets had told me they were going to buy demasoni fry for 10 each from me but they were all talk and were no longer interested when i brought them to the store, what a waste of time. i ended up selling them between $1-3 each, and then sold the colony of breeding demasoni as well to pay for my new shipment of fish.


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## Rastapus

I think this is an interesting thread for a few reasons. One big point to keep in mind here is who is your competition? Massive farms worldwide with huge ponds for grow out and minimal overhead. I think that is the big issue here. If we could build I phones in our home and make a profit someone would but you simply cannot compete with the manufacturers over seas. 
If not for this fact, the livestock in the LFS would be much more expensive. It is not an equal playing field, that is why profiting out of a breeding project in house in North America is a challenge at the least and more of an interest than anything.


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## Mferko

Rastapus said:


> I think this is an interesting thread for a few reasons. One big point to keep in mind here is who is your competition? Massive farms worldwide with huge ponds for grow out and minimal overhead. I think that is the big issue here. If we could build I phones in our home and make a profit someone would but you simply cannot compete with the manufacturers over seas.
> If not for this fact, the livestock in the LFS would be much more expensive. It is not an equal playing field, that is why profiting out of a breeding project in house in North America is a challenge at the least and more of an interest than anything.


yep, your consumer base is very limited too, which limits how big you could scale your operation up. you might be able to compete locally against breeders on the other side of the planet once shipping is factored in, but they can ship anywhere, and as soon as you want to do that to expand your consumer base your at a disadvantage.


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## TCR

Rastapus said:


> I think this is an interesting thread for a few reasons. One big point to keep in mind here is who is your competition? Massive farms worldwide with huge ponds for grow out and minimal overhead. I think that is the big issue here. If we could build I phones in our home and make a profit someone would but you simply cannot compete with the manufacturers over seas.
> If not for this fact, the livestock in the LFS would be much more expensive. It is not an equal playing field, that is why profiting out of a breeding project in house in North America is a challenge at the least and more of an interest than anything.


i agree as far all bills paid and such unless there are very expensive rare fish


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## Mferko

TCR said:


> i agree as far all bills paid and such unless there are very expensive rare fish


yea, maybe if you were somehow able to get CITES certification to be an asian arowana breeder here or something
prly a pretty fat chance of something like that happening.

i could see a colony of moba fronts being relatively profitable, there are prolly a few other species too like mebbe zebra plecos but ofc the initial investment isnt small.


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## AfricanCichlids

It wasn't long ago, BCA admin was going to set up a breeder section on this forum, but must have gotten talked out of it. If anything, the TRUE breeders / hobbyists on here do LFS a favor by offering their customers an alternative, bussiness ( hence the 30 tanks I have ), and we also keep the interest going by offering something different.

I dont feel we are ANY competition for them or our sponsers., we are their biggest customers for christ sake!!


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## TCR

i would love to breed aro's
when i get a house i would make the whole lower level a fish tank 
then again im crazy

heard of someone breeding zebra plecs locally.. there on craigslist and ask 100$ a pop.. i would call that profit


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## AfricanCichlids

TCR said:


> i would love to breed aro's
> when i get a house i would make the whole lower level a fish tank
> then again im crazy
> 
> heard of someone breeding zebra plecs locally.. there on craigslist and ask 100$ a pop.. i would call that profit


what you dont see is that possibly he may have spent much more getting them here, and time to breed them I suppose is bca member free of charge time?? THINK


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## Rastapus

TCR said:


> i would love to breed aro's
> when i get a house i would make the whole lower level a fish tank
> then again im crazy
> 
> heard of someone breeding zebra plecs locally.. there on craigslist and ask 100$ a pop.. i would call that profit


Again, probably not. No one seems to put a value on time and Zebra Plecos are very hard to breed and raise in particular. $100.00 is actually way to cheap but they wont likely sell them privately for more and they have to again invest time in meeting people etc. who may just want to have a look.


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## TCR

AfricanCichlids said:


> what you dont see is that possibly he may have spent much more getting them here, and time to breed them I suppose is bca member free of charge time?? THINK


there on CRAIGSLIST .. Ive seen at least 3 batches on craigslist so im sure he is making a profit.. there is a reason he dosent post it on here are he dosent want to cheese off sponcers and still seems successful

they could have cost quite a bit to get them and start them breeding but also zebra plecs are know to be very hardy fish and will breed in many diff water perems

he is breeding something that is HIGH IN DEMAND

hence high in demand fish and rare fish sell well


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## 182

I'd argue that there _must_ be a profit to be had, because it seems like there are a lot of people who seem to expect it. And if you got into the hobby to be a breeder, obviously you'd have researched the market and found potential customers before you even began investing in the venture, correct?

My Uncle used to breed guppies for a profit. About 40 years ago. I haven't heard of anyone being successful at it since.

But there were other points brought up earlier - writing things off, for example. Why _can't_ you write off the costs of your equipment, sponsorships, etc? Why can't you write off the cost of food if you buy it wholesale and electricity and rent?


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## Mferko

im sure he is making a proffit on those plecos but keep in mind he took a risk, there was no guarantee his would breed and the initial cost was probably quite high.

for every success story like that theres prolly a dozen people that failed

wish i had some breeding zebra plecos and some platinum asian aros lol


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## redsnapper

TCR said:


> i would love to breed aro's
> when i get a house i would make the whole lower level a fish tank
> then again im crazy
> 
> heard of someone breeding zebra plecs locally.. there on craigslist and ask 100$ a pop.. i would call that profit


a

I would have to differ, once again a statement made prior to any real thought or knowledge of the fish. I challange you to explain just how much profit this person is suppose to make,,,, do you know how much money it costs to start a breeding colony of this species,, do you know how long it takes to grow out this fish to maturity,, and how finiky and fragile they are. This person probably has easily $1000 to $2000 just on his breeders and then depending on at what age they were when he bought them maybe 2 to 3 years in getting them to breed. Do you also know that there fry numbers are only 10 to maybe 20 if your lucky per brood..

I don't mean to slam your statement , but enlightenment is the key to this thread and too many people assume to much.....


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## ibenu

TCR said:


> heard of someone breeding zebra plecs locally.. there on craigslist and ask 100$ a pop.. i would call that profit


This kinda comment makes me sad.. have you researched zebra pleco's at all? It is not uncommon for only 1/4 to be sexually active, then you have to consider your male to female ratio, ensuring you have even a pair. (can you imagine how many you have to buy? I assure you they did not get theirs at 100 each.)

At 100 each for baby wild caughts (and doa's ), imagine the price subadults garner...

Im not going to go into the math as I hope the pleco breeder will himself. But 100 dollars each even if they sold all babies would not a profit make. You fail to include the cost of getting to even one baby...

And THAT is why I am hoping more breeders will speak up about initial cost involved in having breeding stock to begin with. I believe it is a myth that people breeding fish here on the forum make a profit...

I thought it would be fun to breed Plecos.. Bought I breeding trio of BN's. I gave away babies in the end, both to IPU as well as users here. I sold very few and there was no profit made...

Again TCR thinking Zebra plecos at 100 each is profit is really uninformed.... The attitude that there would be a profit is what keeps those on Craigslist and not here were we could hear more about the breeding of them...


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## AfricanCichlids

I like these threads, opens some eyes a bit, and I like stirring up trouble. ( and got my post count up high enough to PM )

I think ALL breeders should strike!!! for a breeder union, alliance if u would, and dont sell local till people wake up


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## Mferko

redsnapper said:


> a
> 
> I would have to differ, once again a statement made prior to any real thought or knowledge of the fish. I challange you to explain just how much profit this person is suppose to make,,,, do you know how much money it costs to start a breeding colony of this species,, do you know how long it takes to grow out this fish to maturity,, and how finiky and fragile they are. This person probably has easily $1000 to $2000 just on his breeders and then depending on at what age they were when he bought them maybe 2 to 3 years in getting them to breed. Do you also know that there fry numbers are only 10 to maybe 20 if your lucky per brood..
> 
> I don't mean to slam your statement , but enlightenment is the key to this thread and too many people assume to much.....


work it out
1k investment, single brood of 10 fish, 100 each, investment paid for.
even if he invested 2k, if 3 waves of 10 fish have alrdy been sold 10x100 each, hes made 1k proffit. (thats assuming hes only got 1 female pumping out 10 at a time, he could very well have more)


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## Kitsune

Otter said:


> But there were other points brought up earlier - writing things off, for example. Why _can't_ you write off the costs of your equipment, sponsorships, etc? Why can't you write off the cost of food if you buy it wholesale and electricity and rent?


I've had a small business before (non-fish related). And being able to write stuff off means nothing unless you make money. It's just for tax purposes. It means you'll be taxed less. If ANY 'local breeder' (based on the definition we are using) is able to make enough money to even be worth making a tax claim, then i would be impressed and surprised. (Please, someone contradict me.)


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## jobber

As somewhat a newbie in the hobby, its the local hobbyist breeders that at least make it somewhat affordable to obtain certain fish. I'd rather give my money to someone who has put TLC into their breeding program at a local small scale than mass breeders. There are the goods and the bads, as much as I don't mind knowing local breeders can turn a bit of a profit, like any business in vancouver, its a tough market to sell. There are more to be made elsewhere. I'd rather be running a fruit farm somewhere and it maybe more profitable.

As for myself,I'd like to have local breeders like rescuepenguin supply a few rare corydoras for the local market, but like he says, the overhead costs alone in electricity, food, time....the profit be good in order to sustain the breeding. I'm a bit biased b/c he's breeding c.hastatus for which I have been longing to see and buy. I really do hope he's successful, because I would be one of those people out there that will be very happy I got the type of fish I've had my eyes set on for a long time.

So add me to the waiting list for c.hastatus.


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## 182

Exactly, which means you'll see a larger tax return at the end of the year if you've been paying taxes at a 'real' job. Right?


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## redsnapper

I am beginning to see already that most agree that breed for profit is at best nearly imposable.. so back to my long standing argument, why is many of us local breeders labled breeders for profit,, so bca can charge us $300 a year to post our fish and why do so many people shun us when its really the members and lps that benifit....


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## ibenu

Mferko said:


> work it out
> 1k investment, single brood of 10 fish, 100 each, investment paid for.
> even if he invested 2k, if 3 waves of 10 fish have alrdy been sold 10x100 each, hes made 1k proffit. (thats assuming hes only got 1 female pumping out 10 at a time, he could very well have more)


You know these fish are not mature enough to breed until they are three years old? What do you think, ball park it costs to run and feed a high protien diet for three years, water changes,heat light, usual jazz?

Hoping you were so fast to do the math on "profit" perhaps you might have the numbers handy to factor that in..


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## AfricanCichlids

Otter said:


> I'd argue that there _must_ be a profit to be had, because it seems like there are a lot of people who seem to expect it. And if you got into the hobby to be a breeder, obviously you'd have researched the market and found potential customers before you even began investing in the venture, correct?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Investing??? breeders dont invest. They find a fish they like, buy it, raise it. FISH I LIKE.
> 
> some are nice, some are not. fact is, very few africans are sellable over 5 bucks a pop. Most breed batches of 20 or less. 1 of 10 breeds will yield a profit, like my yellow tail acei. but people come here and want them for 3-10 bucks, so a whole setup is required to breed them, and another to grow them, profit gone 10 fold


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## 182

But ibenu - Are these fish being kept in a garage for three years, or are they also doubling as ornamental or luxury items in a home?

....it's a surprisingly touchy subject, isn't it?


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## redsnapper

I love the pleco example ,, and its interesting that the people who actually know the fish and have experianced the cost factor involved in breeding for the long haule, all agree that it still is probable that there is still no profit.. yet the others really have a hard time believing that this person is not making a profit.

The other thing I like is that if such strong aurguments can be made for both sides of the pleco example at a $100 a baby , how the heck can a local breeder be labled breeder for profit while selling fish at $3 to $20 a fish, I don't have a wild caught breeding group that has cost me less than $300 and as much as $1000 and thats not including all the failed attempts of other species that did not pan out due to deaths, ratio and just non breeders...


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## neven

Just ignorance from the sounds of it. i Have no idea the wattage of all the lighting, heaters and filters you guys run. I have no idea how many species the average breeder breeds, or how many tanks need to be up and running and how much water changes are done, nor do i have an idea on the volume of food consumed. Im not asking for a break down, im just pointing out that i just don't know so we draw assumptions from what we do know. Some pictures of a set up might enlighten a few.

As it is, we rarely hear anything about the inner working of our local breeders, their problems and successes included, we just hear from the hobbyist who tries breeding. which is starting to sound like a totally different game now.

As for a Local breeder form of Sponsorship, im personally all for it, maybe our admin can run it by the sponsors and see what they say. For the most part, if people cant get the fish at our sponsors, they find a way to get them anyways. Atleast this way they'll start to see where the market wants to go rather than sticking to the status quo of fish.


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## 24/7

Rastapus said:


> Again, probably not. No one seems to put a value on time and Zebra Plecos are very hard to breed and raise in particular. $100.00 is actually way to cheap but they wont likely sell them privately for more and they have to again invest time in meeting people etc. who may just want to have a look.


And why would they not sell for more then $100 Grant ?



TCR said:


> there on CRAIGSLIST .. Ive seen at least 3 batches on craigslist so im sure he is making a profit.. there is a reason he dosent post it on here are he dosent want to cheese off sponcers and still seems successful
> 
> they could have cost quite a bit to get them and start them breeding but also zebra plecs are know to be very hardy fish and will breed in many diff water perems
> 
> he is breeding something that is HIGH IN DEMAND
> 
> hence high in demand fish and rare fish sell well


So because someone successfully raises a L046 should they not be entitled to making some $ off of them, cause I can tell you they are not a huge money maker, a hobbyist who does it for the satisfaction of knowing they did it I can relate too ! And as to your second statement your are 100% right in not wanting to deal with cheesing off ______.



redsnapper said:


> a
> 
> I would have to differ, once again a statement made prior to any real thought or knowledge of the fish. I challange you to explain just how much profit this person is suppose to make,,,, do you know how much money it costs to start a breeding colony of this species,, do you know how long it takes to grow out this fish to maturity,, and how finiky and fragile they are. This person probably has easily $1000 to $2000 just on his breeders and then depending on at what age they were when he bought them maybe 2 to 3 years in getting them to breed. Do you also know that there fry numbers are only 10 to maybe 20 if your lucky per brood..
> 
> I don't mean to slam your statement , but enlightenment is the key to this thread and too many people assume to much.....


Average around 6/8 per spawn.



ibenu said:


> This kinda comment makes me sad.. have you researched zebra pleco's at all? It is not uncommon for only 1/4 to be sexually active, then you have to consider your male to female ratio, ensuring you have even a pair. (can you imagine how many you have to buy? I assure you they did not get theirs at 100 each.)
> 
> At 100 each for baby wild caughts (and doa's ), imagine the price subadults garner...
> 
> Im not going to go into the math as I hope the pleco breeder will himself. But 100 dollars each even if they sold all babies would not a profit make. You fail to include the cost of getting to even one baby...
> 
> And THAT is why I am hoping more breeders will speak up about initial cost involved in having breeding stock to begin with. I believe it is a myth that people breeding fish here on the forum make a profit...
> 
> I thought it would be fun to breed Plecos.. Bought I breeding trio of BN's. I gave away babies in the end, both to IPU as well as users here. I sold very few and there was no profit made...
> 
> Again TCR thinking Zebra plecos at 100 each is profit is really uninformed.... The attitude that there would be a profit is what keeps those on Craigslist and not here were we could hear more about the breeding of them...


Thank you for your support Lisa  You could not be more on the $ then that.


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## rescuepenguin

Mferko said:


> work it out
> 1k investment, single brood of 10 fish, 100 each, investment paid for.
> even if he invested 2k, if 3 waves of 10 fish have alrdy been sold 10x100 each, hes made 1k proffit. (thats assuming hes only got 1 female pumping out 10 at a time, he could very well have more)


What about the cost of raising these fish, electricity, food, water, time, SLR camera to take pics etc.What is his survival rate? Fish consume resources right up until they die. He might be making some money, but not as much as you think, that is why this thread is here, to educate people. Secondly, has he responded to any inquiries? I haven't heard of any.

For the people that think you can write off expenses, here's something to think about, my ex wife used to work with a guy who bred birds to supplement his income. One day the CRA decided that his bird breeding business was a hobby and not a business. His breeding stock was 400+ birds. Sent him a bill for every penny plus interest that he deducted as a business expense. The bill was for $50,000. He couldn't even service the interest on this bill. He died of a heart attack before his appeal was heard. 5 Children grew up without their father/stepfather. I do not know what the final out come was. I should note that his breeding operation was out of his house.

My wife and I spent a year working spread sheets to figure out how to farm high quality fish here in the lower mainland. We figured out what fish to start with and how many we would have to sell at whole sale prices. What we came up with would pay for expenses only. We would not get a pay check out of it, so we would have to still work our respective jobs. It would have such a razor thin margin that any blip in income could kill it. Profit and a paycheck would only come later, if the business survived that long, and only after we pour more money into it. We are well aware of the farms that can breed these fish with little overhead.

Keep the thoughts coming, this is a good thread.

Steve


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## TCR

AfricanCichlids said:


> Otter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd argue that there _must_ be a profit to be had, because it seems like there are a lot of people who seem to expect it. And if you got into the hobby to be a breeder, obviously you'd have researched the market and found potential customers before you even began investing in the venture, correct?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Investing??? breeders dont invest. They find a fish they like, buy it, raise it. FISH I LIKE.
> 
> some are nice, some are not. fact is, very few africans are sellable over 5 bucks a pop. Most breed batches of 20 or less. 1 of 10 breeds will yield a profit, like my yellow tail acei. but people come here and want them for 3-10 bucks, so a whole setup is required to breed them, and another to grow them, profit gone 10 fold
> 
> 
> 
> Just cuz u like it dosent mean they will take off
> 
> seeing as you "kill hundreds" cuz u can't get rid of them seems like a failed attempt of being a breeder. Sell those ones at 3-10$ better then killing all ur stock cuz u don't want anyone to have them
> 
> rasdapus was right in the fact that u cannot match imported fish as they have huge pools to breed them in
> 
> People will pay IF they feel it's worth it
> 
> also if a LFS won't take ur fish either u may run yourself into problems of too much stock and no where to put them. No one elses problem but ur own
> 
> it's all called supply and DEMAND (meaning what other people want)
> 
> and I have made a profit before on guppys and swordtails when I was 15 just doing a project
Click to expand...


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## 182

I wonder - would a breeder have more success in a more out-of-the-way territory? I mean even some place like Kelowna, where you've pretty much got the entire Okanagan in your back pocket.


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## ninez

TCR said:


> i would love to breed aro's
> when i get a house i would make the whole lower level a fish tank
> then again im crazy
> 
> heard of someone breeding zebra plecs locally.. there on craigslist and ask 100$ a pop.. i would call that profit


Emm.. breeding aros eh?

Say you start with 6 RTG + one HUGE tank and raise them until they breed.

Finally after so many years (how many? I dunno. Say two years?) of raising them and get a pair out of the 6 RTG and you sell one baby aro for $600. 
Oh yeah!!
That's profit? That's not even enough to buy the equipment to raise them in.
Not to mention the years of work, electricity bill.

I don't think it's THAT easy.


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## ninez

TCR said:


> and I have made a profit before on guppys and swordtails when I was 15 just doing a project


should've quit school and start your own business like Bill Gates when you were 15.


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## 182

I'm confused about why there's so much animosity. Who _wouldn't_ love to breed aros? (Heh, a rhetorical question that really couldn't be asked anywhere otuside of an aquaria forum )

I mean, we're all on the same side here. Except for killing fish, obviously.

PS ninez ----- you've got like a billions tanks! I'd love to see 'em one day. /OT


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## AfricanCichlids

I think tere is just a dead issue going on here, as to weather or not allow breeders to post there stock in a breeder section or the classified ads, at club prices, or not!

Several breeders on this very forum have ruined it for us all by abusing this past privalage of using classified section. This was long ago, we all know who they are, lets move on. 

as it is, I still have people come over totally surprized by the shear number of my stock, this visit was thanks to word of mouth over 100's of remarks snuck into posts on the forum by many members. Thank all the people involved, it helps. All are welcome from this forum just to see the fish, make it a fish day!!

winter is here, and is generally a time to straighten out the aquariums for all, and start looking for some different stock ideas.

Warm welcome for most  bring a shovel!! (link below explains) (yet another fish related expense )


----------



## TCR

24/7 said:


> So because someone successfully raises a L046 should they not be entitled to making some $ off of them, cause I can tell you they are not a huge money maker, a hobbyist who does it for the satisfaction of knowing they did it I can relate too ! And as to your second statement your are 100% right in not wanting to deal with cheesing off ______.
> 
> .


Sell away. I have nothing against breeding them. I love zebra plecs. Do u openly complain that no store will but ur fish? Zebras are beutiful

my point on zebras is kudos.

Do u tend to sit on the offspring for very long or are u sucseful at getting rid of them when the time comes?

Do u kill
hundreds of the fry cuz u have to place to put them

is it more of a hobby or was the orig plan to drop ur day job and breed fish for a living

I


----------



## ninez

Otter said:


> PS ninez ----- you've got like a billions tanks! I'd love to see 'em one day. /OT


LOL.. I consider my fish lucky. 
I have one Thai Silk by itself in 75G.
7 demasoni in a 75G.
a pair of gold severums in 75G (oh yeah, that's profit. They laid eggs last night) 

Sorry to get off topic.

I will start breeding once the definition of breeder is clarified here on the forum.


----------



## AfricanCichlids

Otter said:


> I'm confused about why there's so much animosity. Who _wouldn't_ love to breed aros? (Heh, a rhetorical question that really couldn't be asked anywhere otuside of an aquaria forum )
> 
> I mean, we're all on the same side here. Except for killing fish, obviously.
> 
> PS ninez ----- you've got like a billions tanks! I'd love to see 'em one day. /OT


Don't worrry, only fish I kill are ones I absolutely could not get rid of to fellow members, funny how that works, since I havent been active for 8 months


----------



## TCR

ninez said:


> Emm.. breeding aros eh?
> 
> Say you start with 6 RTG + one HUGE tank and raise them until they breed.
> 
> Finally after so many years (how many? I dunno. Say two years?) of raising them and get a pair out of the 6 RTG and you sell one baby aro for $600.
> Oh yeah!!
> That's profit? That's not even enough to buy the equipment to raise them in.
> Not to mention the years of work, electricity bill.
> 
> I don't think it's THAT easy.


There is a reason I say breeding is a part of
the HOBBY. I would see it as an expensive fun


----------



## AfricanCichlids

I guess I just made aquaman a breeder, set him up with 10-12 groups, and he has not got the heart to not raise the fry. This time next year, he will be a full pfledge breeder, fish and fry up the nostrils, unable to post in classifieds... hope hes hungry

Oh wait, I forgot, he breeds them for free to BCA members!!



ninez said:


> I will start breeding once the definition of breeder is clarified here on the forum.


----------



## TCR

AfricanCichlids said:


> I guess I just made aquaman a breeder, set him up with 10-12 groups, and he has not got the heart to not raise the fry. This time next year, he will be a full pfledge breeder, fish and fry up the nostrils, unable to post in classifieds... hope hes hungry
> 
> Oh wait, I forgot, he breeds them for free to BCA members!!


Well there u go market flooded


----------



## ninez

AfricanCichlids said:


> I guess I just made aquaman a breeder, set him up with 10-12 groups, and he has not got the heart to not raise the fry. This time next year, he will be a full pfledge breeder, fish and fry up the nostrils, unable to post in classifieds... hope hes hungry
> 
> Oh wait, I forgot, he breeds them for free to BCA members!!


Oh I *LOVE* this site so much that I don't wanna get banned. 
That's why I gave away my fry and stop breeding so that I am not qualified as a sellin' breeder.


----------



## 24/7

TCR said:


> Sell away. I have nothing against breeding them. I love zebra plecs. Do u openly complain that no store will but ur fish? Zebras are beutiful
> 
> my point on zebras is kudos.
> 
> Do u tend to sit on the offspring for very long or are u sucseful at getting rid of them when the time comes?
> 
> Do u kill
> hundreds of the fry cuz u have to place to put them
> 
> is it more of a hobby or was the orig plan to drop ur day job and breed fish for a living
> 
> I


They grow out in a tank for at least 3 months before any are sold, as they are slow growing. This is 100% Hobby , and if you think you can drop your day job to breed and sell them and can survive with any profit from the sale of them, Your living in a dream.


----------



## TCR

24/7 said:


> They grow out in a tank for at least 3 months before any are sold, as they are slow growing. This is 100% Hobby , and if you think you can drop your day job to breed and sell them and can survive with any profit from the sale of them, Your living in a dream.


It's one of the points I was trying
to make. It's hobby


----------



## Mferko

rescuepenguin said:


> What about the cost of raising these fish, electricity, food, water, time, SLR camera to take pics etc.What is his survival rate? Fish consume resources right up until they die. He might be making some money, but not as much as you think, that is why this thread is here, to educate people. Secondly, has he responded to any inquiries? I haven't heard of any.
> 
> For the people that think you can write off expenses, here's something to think about, my ex wife used to work with a guy who bred birds to supplement his income. One day the CRA decided that his bird breeding business was a hobby and not a business. His breeding stock was 400+ birds. Sent him a bill for every penny plus interest that he deducted as a business expense. The bill was for $50,000. He couldn't even service the interest on this bill. He died of a heart attack before his appeal was heard. 5 Children grew up without their father/stepfather. I do not know what the final out come was. I should note that his breeding operation was out of his house.
> 
> My wife and I spent a year working spread sheets to figure out how to farm high quality fish here in the lower mainland. We figured out what fish to start with and how many we would have to sell at whole sale prices. What we came up with would pay for expenses only. We would not get a pay check out of it, so we would have to still work our respective jobs. It would have such a razor thin margin that any blip in income could kill it. Profit and a paycheck would only come later, if the business survived that long, and only after we pour more money into it. We are well aware of the farms that can breed these fish with little overhead.
> 
> Keep the thoughts coming, this is a good thread.
> 
> Steve


for the record i am not complaining about him making money, if he is, thats great, he deserves it for his risky investment and hard work. im saying the same thing as tom, there are some select species that you can probably make some money on, but most you cant.

it makes sense for a breeder section on the forum so all those ones that aren't very profitable are available to members at a fair price, which isnt enough to cover a sponsorship.


----------



## effox

post was modded, no need to reply.


----------



## rescuepenguin

Mferko said:


> for the record i am not complaining about him making money, if he is, thats great, he deserves it for his risky investment and hard work. im saying the same thing as tom, there are some select species that you can probably make some money on, but most you cant.
> 
> it makes sense for a breeder section on the forum so all those ones that aren't very profitable are available to members at a fair price, which isnt enough to cover a sponsorship.


point taken, I agree with the breeder section.


----------



## AfricanCichlids

I know there are people out there that have some nice fish, the forum just doesnt let us all know who they are.

How many sponsers here sell fish for a profit that a breeeder can interfere with???

only one I know is april, and I know she doesnt have many africans, and I would never raise a fish I knew she carries regularly.

monster fish is in a class of their own, and no breeders I know of.


----------



## Kitsune

Otter said:


> Exactly, which means you'll see a larger tax return at the end of the year if you've been paying taxes at a 'real' job. Right?


Ahh... this topic is going so fast I can't keep up!
Doesn't necessarily mean larger tax return at the end of the year. 
The tax man does recognize the difference between a hobby and a business. You cannot have a failing business for more than a few years before the tax man comes after you (i.e. you can't write off all your expenses from you 'hobby' and claim it as failing small business expense).

I had a 'failing' business for the first year (bought equipment, and didn't make the money back in the first year). This would then be applied against the 'real' job. But if I claimed this again and again, the tax man will call this a hobby, not a business, and would want the tax returns back.

...i think... Any accountants out there?


----------



## April

breed away i hAVE BOUGHT batches of babies raised locally from "breeders". bear in mind..i have to make a profit..to pay my lease, water bill..whichi is almost 500 a month extra, hydro.. 500a month, hst, insurance, wages, gas, etc etc. etc..
but i agree with rasputus..we cant compete with florida or asia . they dont have water bills like we do, hydro, etc..and they have outdoor ponds etc. cheaper labour , and they are way ahead of us. who created all the amazing strains of discus. the asians. you could never keep up. by the time you get the latest newest strain..raise it..pair themn off..breed them..to sellable size..they are onto the next newest stain and yours is old hat. also without 24/7 water changes, power feeding etc..you get very poor shape and size and quality. bad fins, bad gills, big eyes, etc etc..out of a batch of 100 you may get 30 good ones..if your doing spotted or albinos..etc...youd get maybe 10 sellable ones . some strains you cant tell if they will be patterned right till alot older..and they get their colour..so a long time to keep , grow and raise. hence..april isnt sitting there breeding discus. also space..tanks, time..feed, wc, feed wc, id be fooling myself if i thought i could sell them.
as for selling on bcaquaria..if someone has some sellable sized fish who are in demand..feel free to contact me. i pay cash..bear in mind i have to be able to make profit myself. i dont do convicts... and..i cant pay more than what id pay from importing with shipping etc calculated into it. 
breeding fish is rewarding as a hobby..and a challenge..dont quit your day job. lol. 
also remember..the higher quality food you feed you get better quality fish..and keeping lines going..and not mixing colours etc is best..or you get mud. ie. mixed guppies go back to looking like wild guppies..mixed africans are mixed who knows what..you got..etc. 
angels are easy..you can do the genetic calculator, 
and yes..doesnt take long before the market is saturated on here anyhow..bcaquaria. 
its a known fact you make more money breeding bread and butter strains than something worth more money. ie..everyone needs a corie..and everyone has owned angels, etc. how many people own rays,..or arrowanas or flowerhorns..in the general population. 
what do i sell most of from people in the neighbourhood...tetras, bettas, goldfish, cories, basic stuff. so sell what basic hobbyists want.


----------



## Aquaman

AfricanCichlids said:


> I guess I just made aquaman a breeder, set him up with 10-12 groups, and he has not got the heart to not raise the fry. This time next year, he will be a full pfledge breeder, fish and fry up the nostrils, unable to post in classifieds... hope hes hungry
> 
> Oh wait, I forgot, he breeds them for free to BCA members!!


LOL your a funny guy .....Come on man their BABIES ...all babies are cute 
I like to see them grow up ...yes then they will .......:
#1 ...go live with a few friends. 
#2.... Take a trip up north to see the grandkids and
never come back.
#3.....get ground up for fish food...

What I want now will change .....Very tough catching the holding females. 
I think the other ones will have to fend for themselfs.Unless you want them.

And yes you did set me up with all them georgous fish . And No I will not become a breeder....no NO NO NO no...really I just don't have the room ..really. ...can I come look at more fish please.

Besides seeing what you and Paul have gone through and seeing the down side, God the disapointments would do me in  .Fish that... die groups that don't breed and the work involved I couldn't do it.
LOL ..Tom I think a hobby of knitting would get me more money .
And sadly Thats even after you have done all the hard work for me .

Its really obvious to me that you guys are in it for the money .. I mean any day now the fish are going to start laying Pearls.


----------



## Kitsune

Aquaman said:


> LOL ..Tom I think a hobby of knitting would get me more money .


Haha... you might have to become a sponsor to sell those scarves.
By the way do you take custom orders? I want a scarf with white and baby blue yarn... oh maybe with alpaca yarn...


----------



## TCR

I have an alpaca blanket if u can make into yarn too

but prolly worth more as a blanket


----------



## Ursus sapien

Aquaman said:


> LOL ..Tom I think a hobby of knitting would get me more money .


My mom quit her day job when she was in her mid 40's and for the next thirty years earned her living as a pro knitter. Her knit one/pearl two hobby took her to Whistler, Banff and Jasper; her sweaters sold for $600 in Robson St boutiques. 
My white clouds and blue eyed rainbows ain't gonna do the same for me.


----------



## SeaHorse_Fanatic

My friend (I helped) tried to breed Bangaii cardinals locally since these are an endangered species, are very popular and sell for about $25-30 locally. Unfortunately, they also take 3-5 months to grow to market size and must be fed for at least a couple of months on live food like baby brine shrimp. He also built an 8' acrylic tank with multiple chambers just to go large scale.

Unfortunately, when he tried to sell privately, few buyers were willing to pay a decent amount for these locally bred endangered fish.

Then when he sold them to the LFS (actually I ended up trading them in for him for store credit), it was at or below break even. So even if you do research and choose an appropriate species, by the time you add up all the costs and time & effort, breeding for profit is sometimes unrealistic.

In the end, we both agreed that it was interesting to meet the challenge of breeding and rearing a marine species, especially an endangered species, but with our busy lives, neither of us could continue on this venture.

Anthony


----------



## Aquaman

Ursus sapien said:


> My mom quit her day job when she was in her mid 40's and for the next thirty years earned her living as a pro knitter. Her knit one/pearl two hobby took her to Whistler, Banff and Jasper; her sweaters sold for $600 in Robson St boutiques.
> My white clouds and blue eyed rainbows ain't gonna do the same for me.


SO I was right ...think of the money she would of made if she raised sheep for free wool ...Thanks for confirming that


----------



## Smiladon

Mferko said:


> work it out
> 1k investment, single brood of 10 fish, 100 each, investment paid for.
> even if he invested 2k, if 3 waves of 10 fish have alrdy been sold 10x100 each, hes made 1k proffit. (thats assuming hes only got 1 female pumping out 10 at a time, he could very well have more)


Firstly, the actual price is around $250 - $300 per fish (correct me if I am wrong). This is probably what he paid for per fish, and then there is quantity, pairing issues, fertility issues, breeding and raising fry, costs etc etc.

Once you put all the variables in considerations, $100 a piece is only going to help pay for part of his expenses...aka...this person is not making a profit, but its a loss for him.

The point is that he is a breeder and not a business. The money breeders make only acts as a suppliment to their fish expenses. Its very rare to make a profit for a local breeder...even if the breeder does make some extra $, they go back into the fish anyways.



TCR said:


> AfricanCichlids said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just cuz u like it dosent mean they will take off
> 
> seeing as you "kill hundreds" cuz u can't get rid of them seems like a failed attempt of being a breeder. Sell those ones at 3-10$ better then killing all ur stock cuz u don't want anyone to have them
> 
> rasdapus was right in the fact that u cannot match imported fish as they have huge pools to breed them in
> 
> People will pay IF they feel it's worth it
> 
> also if a LFS won't take ur fish either u may run yourself into problems of too much stock and no where to put them. No one elses problem but ur own
> 
> it's all called supply and DEMAND (meaning what other people want)
> 
> and I have made a profit before on guppys and swordtails when I was 15 just doing a project
> 
> 
> 
> Again, as a breeder, its their choice to get the fish THEY want to try breeding. Their sole purpose is not to sell to make $ but to challenge themselves with the breeding and raising.
> 
> I wont go into "killing fish" as its a preference. I wouldn't kill my fish because its my preference, but I wouldn't interfere with other people killing their fish because its their preference and choice. Selective breeders also call it "culling".
> 
> 
> 
> SeaHorse_Fanatic said:
> 
> 
> 
> My friend (I helped) tried to breed Bangaii cardinals locally since these are an endangered species, are very popular and sell for about $25-30 locally. Unfortunately, they also take 3-5 months to grow to market size and must be fed for at least a couple of months on live food like baby brine shrimp. He also built an 8' acrylic tank with multiple chambers just to go large scale.
> 
> Unfortunately, when he tried to sell privately, few buyers were willing to pay a decent amount for these locally bred endangered fish.
> 
> Then when he sold them to the LFS (actually I ended up trading them in for him for store credit), it was at or below break even. So even if you do research and choose an appropriate species, by the time you add up all the costs and time & effort, breeding for profit is sometimes unrealistic.
> 
> In the end, we both agreed that it was interesting to meet the challenge of breeding and rearing a marine species, especially an endangered species, but with our busy lives, neither of us could continue on this venture.
> 
> Anthony
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A very good example.
> An average hobbyist wouldn't care if the fish are endangered or not and LFS is there to make money. April pointed it out clearly. Selling fish is her business and job and thats how she makes money (she probably makes more money from the dog grooming though )
> 
> Anyways, my point is that at best local breeders can expect a break-even point, which is also un-realistic.
> 
> -----------
> 
> I've bred fish before and the main joy is in raising the fry. When I do sell some, the money goes back into fish food etc.
Click to expand...


----------



## TCR

"Again, as a breeder, its their choice to get the fish THEY want to try breeding. Their sole purpose is not to sell to make $ but to challenge themselves with the breeding and raising."

If one is complaining he is not making a profit and people should buy his fish and the fish store wont buy them?

that is an indication that he is trying to go for profit and is FAILING as he is breeding a fish that in not high in demand and cannot compete with a fish farm.

if he cant sell his fish for profit, its no ones issue but there own try a fish that the market wants or SHHHHHHHH dont complain as it makes one sound like a child

-i have no issues with people breeding there fish.. its up to them
-if u cant sell your fish for the amount you want , boo hoo cry me a river, and figure out what your doing wrong (marketing, $, means of production(lower overall costs of production))
-craiglist is free and one can converse in a more grown up fashion in order to creat a "breeder section" on the forum, perhaps would be a lil more civilized way to do it
-as far as culling is conserned.. Ive done it with cows... bull threw several calves with backwards knees.. killed the calves as they cant even get up and got rid of the bull (slaughter).. but culling them is selective breeding for healthy traits.. buddy is making out that he is breeding SOOOOO many that he is forced to kill them from lack of space and at the same time says he dosent want to give them out unless he gets money for them.. simple solition is stop breeding till u get rid of them.. give them out.. or i guess kill then but makes one sound a sore loser 

my opinion


----------



## Smiladon

Actually, the complaining part is that he is not allowed to post his fish for sale here unless he buys sponsorship.

Its not that people dont want the fish, but the fact that most people dont know what he has because he is not allowed to post. Cost/marketing comes only if he can post... He is totally fine with giving fish for free as long as they dont flip it for profit. He gave $500+ worth of fish to Bill (Aquaman) because he knows that he wont flip them for profit _(maybe because Bill can't catch all those fish in the massive rockwork he has )_

Culling/Killing...lets not talk about it  (we shouldn't impose our thoughts on others). I would hate it if someone said that I was a sore loser for not culling my fish for example. Lets keep the thread as positive as we can, if not Lisa might have to smack me again 



TCR said:


> "Again, as a breeder, its their choice to get the fish THEY want to try breeding. Their sole purpose is not to sell to make $ but to challenge themselves with the breeding and raising."
> 
> If one is complaining he is not making a profit and people should buy his fish and the fish store wont buy them?
> 
> that is an indication that he is trying to go for profit and is FAILING as he is breeding a fish that in not high in demand and cannot compete with a fish farm.
> 
> if he cant sell his fish for profit, its no ones issue but there own try a fish that the market wants or SHHHHHHHH dont complain as it makes one sound like a child
> 
> -i have no issues with people breeding there fish.. its up to them
> -if u cant sell your fish for the amount you want , boo hoo cry me a river, and figure out what your doing wrong (marketing, $, means of production(lower overall costs of production))
> -craiglist is free and one can converse in a more grown up fashion in order to creat a "breeder section" on the forum, perhaps would be a lil more civilized way to do it
> -as far as culling is conserned.. Ive done it with cows... bull threw several calves with backwards knees.. killed the calves as they cant even get up and got rid of the bull (slaughter).. but culling them is selective breeding for healthy traits.. buddy is making out that he is breeding SOOOOO many that he is forced to kill them from lack of space and at the same time says he dosent want to give them out unless he gets money for them.. simple solition is stop breeding till u get rid of them.. give them out.. or i guess kill then but makes one sound a sore loser
> 
> my opinion


----------



## Kitsune

Smiladon said:


> Culling/Killing...lets not talk about it  (we shouldn't impose our thoughts on others). I would hate it if someone said that I was a sore loser for not culling my fish for example.


I agree. I think we can only agree to disagree at this point.

I think its ok to post your views on it, but I don't think we should make judgment on it (and yes... you may call me a hypocrite).


----------



## ibenu

I was going to keep closed as few breeders are standing up and telling us about their experiences good or bad.
Hopes we hear from people breeding or having bred in the past as per OP's first post.


Keep conjecture or opinions ABOUT breeders to yourself or start another thread... Thanks guys for keeping it all good!

This is not a venue to complain about policy,BCA, or anything else. So lets hear about experiences only please and this can stay open. As well we have this fantastic Breeding spawning section where you can go in depth on your own thread about what your breeding, how, and you know we all love pictures

have a great day all!!!

Lisa


----------



## TCR

I think the conclusion is its near impossible to "make a profit" breeding locally
its more Hobby


----------



## donjuan_corn

I had a 27 gallon with 2 male guppies and 10 females and 1 male platy with 5 females and a 10 gallon for fry when I first started in with fish. I had guppies and mickey mouse platys, i put duck weed in the 27 gallon and every time i got babies, i threw them in the 10 gallon and I would sell 4 for $5 and honestly It paid for my hobby most of the time. 

I agree, if someone on here breeds fish just to breed fish and then sells them for dirt cheap on a site like this, didn't know there was a rule to it. Like Teal'C breeds nice fish and sells them when the babies are old enough for dirt cheap because he gets over populated with fish. Still not understanding the breeder issue even after reading all of these posts.

The person that abused the site, what did they do exactly.?


----------



## ibenu

Donjuan, thanks for posting your experience.. Lets leave this thread to that, experiences..... I dont want to prune this thread but will do so brutally if it doesnt stay on the topic of breeder experiences..


----------



## cpool

This is an interesting post, seems people really have strong opinions on this. One thing I don't understand though, why do people who don't make a profit say it isn't possible? Just becasue you aren't making a profit doesn't mean it can't be done. Maybe you are breeding the wrong fish, maybe you want to much money? Maybe the fish you bought won't breed, who knows, but it doesn't mean you can make a profit on breeding fish, it just means you haven't made a profit breeding fish. 

I went for a few years not really trying hard to breed fish, but had a certain type of fish I bought that was easy to breed and in demand enough that i could sell them regularly and I made a profit on them, I didn't quit my day job, but I was able to buy lots of nice aquarium stuff to add to my aquarium (and a few extra tanks)and still have enough left over to put a little money in the bank. I did my research first and made sure what i had would sell, and the price I could get for them was enough to pay the bills. It worked out quite nicely. That was my experience!


----------



## TCR

AfricanCichlids said:


> I like these threads, opens some eyes a bit, and I like stirring up trouble. ( and got my post count up high enough to PM )
> 
> I think ALL breeders should strike!!! for a breeder union, alliance if u would, and dont sell local till people wake up


seems counter productive and irrelivent to the thread

cant see that as being profitable


----------



## couch

The one thing that I would like to mention that either I missed or hasn't been discussed is the inevitable deaths through disease, tank breakage, etc. Even breeders or resellers have to deal with these facts and you can have an entire breeding colony disappear over night. These types of losses are a factor that needs to be taken into account when developing a business plan and once again make it very difficult to make any money.

There is a reason that fish farms are not located in Canada - they are too costly to run and maintain. Tropical and semi-tropical areas do not have to heat their water and that alone is a huge savings that tilts the advantage to them. Factor in the lower wages prevalent in those areas and other factors discussed earlier in this thread and you will never have a profitable fish farm here.

Oranges aren't grown here for a reason - the same one that we do not see ponds filled with half a million mollies or guppies.

The Guppy Farm

In both Singapore and in Florida, the guppy farm looks pretty much the same. It is made up of rows upon rows of shallow concrete containers where farmers keep the guppies. To make the financial enterprise profitable, guppy farmers keep guppies outside using the natural climate of their area to help heat the fish.


----------



## onefishtwofish

well, tom and i and others have discussed setting up a fish farm in my lake here. we figure we could do gold fish/ koi as it never really freezes over and we would get dave a row boat and he can go back and forth a few times a day to check on the herd.....then when its time to harvest them, just a s the boats start hitting the lake usually the may long weekend< we can get his scuba suit out of storage and he can net them in . of course we would give him a percentage of the take.......


----------



## redsnapper

onefishtwofish said:


> well, tom and i and others have discussed setting up a fish farm in my lake here. we figure we could do gold fish/ koi as it never really freezes over and we would get dave a row boat and he can go back and forth a few times a day to check on the herd.....then when its time to harvest them, just a s the boats start hitting the lake usually the may long weekend< we can get his scuba suit out of storage and he can net them in . of course we would give him a percentage of the take.......


Can I bring my trailer up and park it, "lake front parking" probably not allowed to fish I bet, can't put a dent in the profit.


----------



## Fishkeeper

I am glad to read all the real stories....it is a nice hobby, money pit yes, I needed a second job to pay for it....lol....one day...I'll get rich...I just know I will....lol...but maybe not from my fish....good luck to all who try though....I have learned a lot from this forum...one thing for sure is...I will keep my day job....lol


----------



## onefishtwofish

redsnapper said:


> Can I bring my trailer up and park it, "lake front parking" probably not allowed to fish I bet, can't put a dent in the profit.


your trailor can be our office and hence a writeoff........lol


----------



## redsnapper

onefishtwofish said:


> your trailor can be our office and hence a writeoff........lol


But the boogie I mean tax man might get me!

Seriosly Kathy we love your sense of humor, but your feeding my natural tendancy to get off track and carried away... lets not spoil a good thread


----------



## onefishtwofish

i think Mission already has an outdoor koi farm. not sure if its in a natural lake or tank tho.
like florida, using the natural resources available would be the only way to profit.


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## fishclubgirl

My little "fishclubgirl" business actually does okay and helps pay for new stock and my "fishy" travels. What do I make my money on?? Private and auction sales of plants grown in my own tanks and assassin snails.What do I waste my money on?? Lots of fancy bettas and rare livebearers and trips to fish shows. With my little setup, selling to the LFS doesn't make sense.


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