# Mr. Aqua 12g long rimless



## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Hi all.

Just recently I have decided to rejoin the aquaria world after a 15 year hiatus.

*Tank*: Mr. Aqua MA-730 (aka "12g long rimless")
*Light*: BeamsWork HI LUMEN LED Light Pent 30" 
*Filter*: Eheim 2213 canister (Classic 250)
*Heater*: Eheim Jager
*Substrate*: CaribSea Eco-Complete Plant Substrate (black)

My current plan is a low-tech iwagumi(ish) setup with a "mountain" on the left side of the tank and a "tree" on the right side. I would like some sort of carpet, which I have yet to decide on.
Inhabitants will include some sort of small schooling fish and possibly shrimp.

Here is what the current setup looks like with rocks in a temporary setup while I wait for the substrate to arrive. Light is in "moonlight" mode.









Cheers.

Anthony

PS. Anyone know where I can find ammonia for a fishless cycle in the GVRD?


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## PaulCheung (Apr 18, 2011)

Welcome to BCA.


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

Very clean looking start! Welcome to BCA


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## AdobeOtoCat (Dec 10, 2011)

Welcome back.
You can find ammonia at Safeway. 
Not sure if you need to do a fishless cycling with your soil. :\
-Oscar

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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

Welcome to BCA. You should be able to find ammonia at any grocery store. I've also heard of people using plant food for a fishless cycle.


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## Peekay (Jan 27, 2014)

The proportions of that tank are very interesting. What are the measurements? 
Looking forward to seeing the build.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Peekay, they are : 35.4" x 8.3" x 9.4"(Mr. Aqua Bookshelf / Long Frameless Glass Aquarium Tank)

Welcome to BCA!


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Wow, I wasn't expecting this forum to be so active and welcoming! What a pleasant surprise. Thank you!

Does anyone have experience with starting up a new tank with EcoComplete? Also any recommendations for good (read: easy) carpeting plants in a low-tech environment?


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

opt-e said:


> Wow, I wasn't expecting this forum to be so active and welcoming! What a pleasant surprise. Thank you!
> 
> Does anyone have experience with starting up a new tank with EcoComplete? Also any recommendations for good (read: easy) carpeting plants in a low-tech environment?


Welcome to Bcaquaria. We are a friendly bunch 

A lot of people on here have used eco complete. Myself included.

As for carpeting plants. There isn't very many low light carpet plants that will thrive without Co2. If there is RECKON will probably know. Fire him a PM or wait for him to chime in 

Good luck with the tank. It looks great so far.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

opt-e said:


> Wow, I wasn't expecting this forum to be so active and welcoming! What a pleasant surprise. Thank you!
> 
> Does anyone have experience with starting up a new tank with EcoComplete? Also any recommendations for good (read: easy) carpeting plants in a low-tech environment?


welcome to BCA!  12G long is a very nice tank.. I used ecocomplete in our pea puffer tank with crypt parava and some hygro without CO2. They are not dead but they are not growing faster either. I even tried glosso with excel but they all melt after 2 months.

I would say it's easier to have carpet plants with CO2 but I have heard someone using java moss as a carpet plants in low tech tank.

I would use ADA soil as It's the best substrate for plants. I think it also creates ammonia spike which may help for cycling your tank.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Hi guys, thanks for all the tips! You all have convinced me to try the DIY CO2 thing (at least in the beginning to get the carpet and other plants established).

I picked up some Household Ammonia (No Name brand) from Superstore. Didn't have an ingredients list but I did the shake test and there weren't any bubbles. Also read reports on the interweb where people used it with success, so I am crossing my fingers that it is OK. I started the fishless cycle last night and had to dose about 5ml to get the ammonia level up to 4ppm.


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## Fishy_Addiction (May 3, 2013)

Going to ask my question to this thread since on the topic of Co2. Can those beverage tanks work for fish? $35 for a full 3lbs tank. Just wondering, because I see 5lbs tanks go for over $100.

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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I really only expect 2 carpet plants to do OK without CO2: Echinodorus tenellus or Marsilea spp. However, you will probably be waiting for a very long time before you get a decent carpet. A little DIY CO2, will go a long ways.


That's a great tank. I've always considered doing an Iwagumi style scape with it. Did you get it locally?


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## Kimrocks (Aug 30, 2011)

Very Nice footprint -

Saw this saltwater set up before, very tempted -

3 Foot Office Nano - Mr Aqua 12 Gallon Long - Members Aquariums - Nano-Reef.com Forums


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Reckon said:


> I really only expect 2 carpet plants to do OK without CO2: Echinodorus tenellus or Marsilea spp. However, you will probably be waiting for a very long time before you get a decent carpet. A little DIY CO2, will go a long ways.
> 
> That's a great tank. I've always considered doing an Iwagumi style scape with it. Did you get it locally?


Hi Reckon, thanks for the info. I'm going to go the DIY CO2 route. I found this really nice looking kit that I may give a try: D501 DIY Co2 Generator System Kit | WaterPlantStreet - (Sincere-K). Makes the DIY route look real clean.

I picked up the tank from MarineDepot (shipped to Point Roberts); all in it was about $80 USD.



Kimrocks said:


> Very Nice footprint -
> Saw this saltwater set up before, very tempted -
> 3 Foot Office Nano - Mr Aqua 12 Gallon Long - Members Aquariums - Nano-Reef.com Forums


Yeah that one is amazing. Would love to get into nano reefs, but one step at a time 

PS. There is a great 88-page thread (with tons of pictures!) dedicated to this tank on PlantedTank: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168088


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

You can post a link to a thread on another forum no problem. Just keep in mind many members may not be able to access it because of site restrictions on their end.

Best regards,

Stuart

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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Thanks CRS Fan, I updated my previous post with the actual link.

Does anyone have suggestions for what kind of diffuser is good for a DIY CO2 setup?


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

On Friday I drove all around GVRD and picked up some plants from Pat at Canadian Aquatics and some free java moss from rwong2k10! I'm going to tie down the java moss on some rocks and wood, but for now it's just floating there. The non-floating plants that I got from Pat went into my Fluval Flora temporarily while I wait for substrate.









I got tired of waiting for my tank to cycle doing the fishless method so I caved and bought some SeaChem Stability from J&L Aquatics, some EcoComplete from King Ed Pets. Also picked up 8 harlequin rasboras and 6 blue king tetras, also from King Ed Pets.

First I added the EcoComplete to my tank (I know, I'm doing everything backwards.. don't ask) and did a bit of scaping. Threw in some Stability, along with the fish. The rock on the right I found in my yard and wrapped in java moss (secured with a high tech 3lb onion bag). Here's a current pic:









And just for fun, here's my Fluval Flora setup:


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Kinda got lazy and didn't update this thread. Since the last post I had a bit of an algae problem (especially with the moss rock on the right which got completely overrun with algae). I decided to take it out and rescape a bit. Added some more Ecocomplete to bank the corners and a nice curved branch that I found in my backyard. Attached some java moss to the branch with cotton thread. Also have a piece of manzanita in there that I bought from Dr Fosters online. Don't really like it that much though.

Had some blue king tetra in there which were harassing the rasboras. Moved them out to a separate tank and everyone seems to be much happier!









Still not super happy with it. Too much clutter. Need to reorganize the plants and get rid of that ugly heater in the back.


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## do-boy86 (Sep 3, 2013)

Great looking tank! How are you liking your beamswork? I love mine and get great growth with diy co2. With the light so close to rhe substrate like that, I would almost consider your tank high light. 

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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

do-boy86 said:


> Great looking tank! How are you liking your beamswork? I love mine and get great growth with diy co2. With the light so close to rhe substrate like that, I would almost consider your tank high light.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


Love the Beamswork. Solid light for a great price and it's pretty damn bright so close to the substrate. I want to raise it a few inches but I haven't figured out how I want to do it yet. Most likely I'll rig some sort of contraption to hang it off the wall. I'm waiting for my diffuser so I can start doing DIY CO2 as well. What is your CO2 recipe/setup?


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## do-boy86 (Sep 3, 2013)

2L pop bottle and I use automotive rubber hose as its more pliable and I pull it through the cap real tight for a good seal

2 cups sugar
Tsp of baking soda
3/4 Tsp yeast

I get a reaction very quickly by a aerating the yeast very well in warm water for 10min. Lasts ideally 2 weeks if I'm not lazy 

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## Atom (Apr 21, 2010)

Did you get the tank locally or did you order it online? I've always loved the dimensions of this tank.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Atom said:


> Did you get the tank locally or did you order it online? I've always loved the dimensions of this tank.


I got it from MarineDepot.com and shipped it to TSB Shipping in Point Roberts.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

do-boy86 said:


> 2L pop bottle and I use automotive rubber hose as its more pliable and I pull it through the cap real tight for a good seal
> 
> 2 cups sugar
> Tsp of baking soda
> ...


What kind of yeast do you use and where do you get it from?


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## do-boy86 (Sep 3, 2013)

I just use Fleschmans standard baking yeast. Whatever you find from the grocery store. I highly recommend diy co2 to everyone. It seems daunting at first but is super easy and your plants will be exponentially better. 

For anyone shipping stuff to Point Roberts, use the Shell station shipping center instead! Google them. Cheaper than TSB and open on weekends! 

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## Kimrocks (Aug 30, 2011)

Suggestion: Look into using inline heater - the heater glass tube uses up too much of the limited footprint.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Just picked up an awesome combo package of plants from rwong2k10's tank (thanks Ray!!). Couldn't wait to get home and throw them into the tank. I didn't really put much though into the layout but I'm pretty damn pleased with how it turned out. Here's how it looks now:










Also over the weekend I made a ghetto light hanger using cheap $2 metal shelf brackets. Here you can see the tank in it's surroundings. This is my upstairs "living room." It's at the top of the staircase and you can see the tank on the left as you come upstairs. It's sitting on a (in-progress) DIY built-in bookcase I made specifically to put the tank on (and put some books I guess). We've got a little sofa there where we like to sit and watch the fish.










And some closer shots of the scape.




























Originally my plan was a simple iwugami scape with a nice green carpet but I'm really starting to like the idea of a dutch style tank.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

Looks awesome!


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

opt-e said:


> Just picked up an awesome combo package of plants from rwong2k10's tank (thanks Ray!!).
> 
> Originally my plan was a simple iwugami scape with a nice green carpet but I'm really starting to like the idea of a dutch style tank.


I sense collectoritis coming on 
I like your scape. My 22long was almost identical. That arch is really attractive. What for the shade underneath though. You will need to be strategic in what you plant there.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Reckon said:


> I sense collectoritis coming on
> I like your scape. My 22long was almost identical. That arch is really attractive. What for the shade underneath though. You will need to be strategic in what you plant there.


Thanks Reckon, was just checking out your tanks; beautiful as well! Collectoris is already in full effect  Yeah I was a bit worried about the shaded area under the arch. Might have to move some plants.


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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

looking awesome! love the 12g long foot print! can't wait to see more photos and the progress of this aquarium!


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Bit of an update. Had lots of issues in the past week.

Not too long after I put in my new batch of plants from Ray, I also added a school of 12 neons and 2 dwarf honey gouramis. Did a large 50% water change and forgot to add dechlorinator. Lost about 4 tetras, 1 of the gouramis, and 3 rasboras  Noob mistake. Live and learn. My false jullii cory is still rocken it though.

I've also had a bit of a snail infestation problem. At first I thought they were cool when I had one or two, but in the past week the population has exploded. Damn do they reproduce fast. I've been removing snails every day for the past couple days and I would think I've removed about 20-30 snails so far. I'm sure there are plenty of babies in there still. Ugh. How do people normally handle snails?

My last problem at the moment is is a brown fuzzy type algae that grows in clumps (anyone know what it's called?). Looks a bit like cotton balls. It was taking over the java moss I had attached to the branch, so I just removed all of the moss along with the algae. Now it seems to be growing all over the branch and in a small area near my glosso. I can remove it manually but it keeps coming back every day. It's not a huge problem at the moment, but I need to do some research to see how to deal with it.

Anyways here are some pictures.

This is my DIY CO2 setup. I bought a kit off eBay for $20 which included the nice caps, hose, a pressure gauge, and a needle value (cheap and finicky, but does the job okay). Really happy with it and really not as much hassle as I thought it would be.










Here is the FTS from March 6, exactly 1 week after adding all the new plants. Things were just starting to get rooted and established. Don't mind the ugly diffuser placement. I put it under the outflow pipe intentionally to increase CO2 absorption.










And this is a picture of my full school of neons. Note the deformed one leading the pack (he's dead now).


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

And here's some shots from today (4 days after the last post). I started EI dosing (thanks, Pat @ Canadian Aquatics for the EI pack!). Everything is really taking off now. Note that I'm slowly removing hardscape to make room for growth. It's almost a dutch! Also I lowered the light 1-2 inches and it make a clearly noticeable different in growth rate.

FTS:










This stuff seems to be growing the fastest, much to my surprise:










Glosso is doing okay. Several runners and roots coming out:










Anyone have any idea what this stuff is? I think I just had one random clipping of it and it just took off sending runners in all directions:










S. Repens is doing okay too. Most of them have side shoots coming out. Growing slowly but surely.










Under the "bridge" where all the fish like to hang out most of the time. I suspect it's because flow is quite low there and they can rest.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

That tank's really coming along! The Ludwigias really make it pop. I think the mysterious plant is a rotala, it doesn't usually creep like that so perhaps you are giving it lots of light?


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Just got back from my trip to Mexico to get married. Will post a picture or two from the photographer when we get them in a month or two, but was a great time and wonderful escape from the cold and rain in Vancouver.

Had a bit of an issue with diatoms/brown slime before I left and was afraid that I'd have a tank full of it when I got back. Looks like my fears were unfounded. Not only had the diatoms completely disappeared on their own, the plants went crazy and I came back to a jungle.

FTS:










Surface shot:










Detail:


































Small issue with hair algae but it's mostly localized to this one area and easy to remove manually.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

So I had a big problem with BBA on my glosso which was actually carpeting quite nicely. Decided to tear it out, treat in an Excel bath for 15 minutes and replant. Replanting took way longer than i expected as i basically separated the plants in sections of 2 or 3 nodes and planted each piece separately. Also removed all of the fast growing stem plants and moved them into mg new 26g tank. Here is the full tank shot after rescaping.










And some detail shots. Diatoms seem to be making a resurgence. I switched from my DIY CO2 system to a proper pressurized tank setup and it was running all day without CO2 because I didn't adjust the needle valve correctly. Hopefully it doesn't last as long as my first case of diatoms.

Lindernia rotundifolia 'Variegated'









S. Repens.









Glosso and pygmy chain sword.









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## rwong2k10 (Dec 27, 2010)

tank is looking very nice!


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Im having a rough time with algae in this tank, I'm sure due to the irregular CO2 from my DIY system. Still waiting for my atomic diffusers from Ebay so i can set up something more consistent and run both of my tanks off my one 10lb tank.

Glosso is starting to settle in and is finally sending out runners. A lot of it is turning yellow and dying off probably because I broke a lot of the stems and perhaps having sat too long in the Excel bath to kill off the BBA. I think in a couple weeks time it should be looking much better.










Thankfully the BBA has yet to make a reappearance. Diatoms seem to be dying off now.

Some of my pygmy chain sword seems to be melting but it's still growing like crazy shooting off a new runner almost every day.










My lindernia rotundifolia verigated is doing very well and is starting to grow emmersed.










Still getting a feel for the growth patterns of my plants. I hope my next rescape will be much better.


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## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

What a fun thread. Just finished reading it. Your 'scape sure has changed from the first planting! I had to laugh at the evolution from "what grows without added CO2" to a 10lb pressurized system in just three months! Seriously though, your tank is looking great!


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

greenfin said:


> What a fun thread. Just finished reading it. Your 'scape sure has changed from the first planting! I had to laugh at the evolution from "what grows without added CO2" to a 10lb pressurized system in just three months! Seriously though, your tank is looking great!


Isn't this the same story for everyone who gets into planted tanks? . The funniest part of this whole thing is that I initially only intended to spend $100-200 on the whole aquarium setup. Boy has that budget gone completely out the window..

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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Just growing pains. I'm sure you will get the tank tuned and balanced. There's just a bit of a learning curve. I had a similar struggle with my tanks when I started. I was water testing every 2nd day. I think each new tank goes through a 4-8 week cycle anyways so things will balance out after the first few months. 
Are you adding buffers?


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Reckon said:


> Just growing pains. I'm sure you will get the tank tuned and balanced. There's just a bit of a learning curve. I had a similar struggle with my tanks when I started. I was water testing every 2nd day. I think each new tank goes through a 4-8 week cycle anyways so things will balance out after the first few months.
> Are you adding buffers?


I'm not adding any buffers. Basically just CO2, EI dosing, and water changes. What do you need buffers for?

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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

opt-e said:


> I'm not adding any buffers. Basically just CO2, EI dosing, and water changes. What do you need buffers for?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Hm. I'm mainly referring to Equilibrium. For GH.

Here's a link, I'm sure there's more info on the forum
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/freshwater-chat-9/water-parameter-faq-kind-rant-me-p-15518/

Essentially, your fish and plants will need a certain amount of minerals from the water.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Reckon, thanks for that link. Very informative. I skimmed over bits but I'm going to have spend more time to read through it to really understand everything. I ran across this site called the Skeptical Aquarist. It's treasure trove of really good information that I've been reading through slowly. Here's the section on water: Water | The Skeptical Aquarist.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

opt-e said:


> Reckon, thanks for that link. Very informative. I skimmed over bits but I'm going to have spend more time to read through it to really understand everything. I ran across this site called the Skeptical Aquarist. It's treasure trove of really good information that I've been reading through slowly. Here's the section on water: Water | The Skeptical Aquarist.


That's a superb website. Thanks for sharing that. I'll work my way through reading the articles.

I would definitely get your water's GH to at least to 2-3 degrees asap. It's only been about 3 years since I've been in this hobby, I've seen a few tanks start out decently without buffering but I haven't seen any that do well after 6-8mos.


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Thanks for the tip I will definitely look into buffering.

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## randylahey (Jun 25, 2013)

If you're going to pat for hc, ask him about buffering. I use his GH booster and couldn't be happier. He is extremely knowledgeable.

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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Thanks Greg I will do that. Do you guys add anything other than ferts and GH buffer to your planted tanks?

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## randylahey (Jun 25, 2013)

I also add seachem's alkaline buffer. I dont add as near as much as the label says to. I add the buffers after my water change.

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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Small update.

Some of the plants were due for a major trimming. Removed a lot of pygmy chain sword and lindernia rotundifolia variegated. Glosso is filling in nicely in the middle of the tank where there is a lot of water current bringing nutrients. Not doing nearly as well elsewhere. I need better circulation in my tank and I'm hoping adding a Koralia should help.

Also got a new atomic CO2 diffuser off eBay (ordered it over a month ago and it finally arrived yesterday). Works great and im really happy with it so far.

Small issue with algae on the glass that I need to clean now and then but it is manageable and I'm glad its not BBA or diatoms again.










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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I purchased an atomizer off ebay as well and couldn't have been happier with it while I used it. Just as good as the reactor I built, but way more compact and inline.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

How about seeing bubbles vs reactor? Send a link to the atomizer? Thanks!!


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

opt-e said:


> Small update.
> 
> Some of the plants were due for a major trimming. Removed a lot of pygmy chain sword and lindernia rotundifolia variegated. Glosso is filling in nicely in the middle of the tank where there is a lot of water current bringing nutrients. Not doing nearly as well elsewhere. I need better circulation in my tank and I'm hoping adding a Koralia should help.
> 
> ...


Those chain swords looks amazing in your tank!


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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

Reckon said:


> Those chain swords looks amazing in your tank!


Thanks.. I'm not sure about them personally as it kind of ruin's the whole sense of scale you get with the other plants. Plus they grow so damn fast I'm constantly having to remove some..

Here's the atomizer I bought:

Super CO2 Diffuser Atomiser Planted Atomic Reactor Aquarium FOR Plant Tank S | eBay

And here's a video I just took of the atomizer in action in my other tank


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## randylahey (Jun 25, 2013)

Yeah those diffusers work great on the smaller tanks . The bubbles can be a real eyesore when you're pushing a lot more co2 on a larger tank. My 90 looked like a glass of club soda with the atomizer. I made my own reactor and now the only bubbles are from the plants pearling.

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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

I kinda like seeing the bubbles but I'm pretty sure it's just a novelty and eventually I'll go to an inline reactor as well..

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## opt-e (Jan 25, 2014)

So it looks like I'm going back in the direction of my first concept. Reintroduced some of my ohko rock and I must say it looks much better.

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