# What is my tank LACKING? Definitely NOT holey, yellow, brown or melting plants!



## Atom

So my Ebi has been running for over a year now. It experienced healthy growth for a long time, but for the last 4 months ALL PLANTS have been decaying in this tank! I can't figure out if I'm missing one crucial ingredient or many!

- I dose excel, iron, flourish and recently started potassium. No CO2. I dose 2 to 3 times a week or sometimes once weekly after a water change if I forget.

- Weekly 20% - 30% water change.

- I run 2X 13W Ebi Lights for 6 to 10 hours. I guess I don't have a very consistent photoperiod.

- No carbon.

- Shrimp and white clouds at the moment. One point a guppy and chili rasboras with shrimp.

These are victims:

I can keep Java fern and Windelov alive in a bowl, but not in this tank! It turns brown and starts to break apart rapidly. I transfered these healthy java ferns into this tank from a bowl it's been living in for months and it died within a few days. CAUSE?









Frogbit used to exploded in my tank, but now it has stopped. The edges turn yellow and waste away. Occassional spots. CAUSE?









Anubias leaves grow slowly, holes and yellowing edges. I've had this plant for almost a year. CAUSE?









I also have Bacopa and rosaelia reineckii in the tank. The tops are fine and continue to grow, but the bottoms go bare and leaves turn yellow. The reineckii has weak stems. I experimented with Vals in this tank too and they melted within 2 days. Started dosing potassium because I thought it would help, but plants continue to die.The only plants that aren't affected are the marimo balls, duckweed and ALGAE 

So I beg you experts to HELP me figure this out! Maybe I'm not dosing enough or too many plants?


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## Momobobo

I have been undergoing similar symptoms as you are. I use to be able to grow rotala macrandra fine but after a trimming the bottom leaves kept dieing out, though the tops grew very red and healthy. I had to toss them :\ I am sure a plant guru can help you out 

For the leaves at the bottom dying out, the quick guide I saw says it is a nitrogen deficiency.


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## jobber

Looks to me that you have good lighting but not enough fertilizers which is limiting the growth of the leaves this resulting in melting pinholes, symptoms you are describing.

I would recommend reading the links that Shawn has recommended to the OP of the following the thread.

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24395

plants getting worse after fertilizing?

The frogbits absorb a lot of the nutrients from the water column which takes away from the Java fern. You may want to consider keeping fewer frogbits or dosing more fertilizers. However, dosing more fertilizer may adversely affect the shrimps.

See what other people may recommend, however, I would start off first by obtaining information from the other thread so the wheel is not being reinvented.

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## neven

I see lack of nitrates and phosphates. Phosphates i can tell by the green spot algae on the leaves of non slow growers. When plants melt like that its normally one of two things, lack of light or lack of nitrates. My guess will be nitrates since the sclerosis on some of the leaves, rather than all just being brown. What could have happened is since you dont dose both nitrates or phosphates, you could have exhausted the substrate from those nutrients. If you do not wish to dose those in fear of your shrimpies you can root tab the substrate. keep in mind you cant do this in areas that you uproot often


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## Atom

Thank you for the responses for far. I will read those links, jobber604.

Neven, the leaves on the java fern turns completely brown eventually not just small patches. I don't dose nitrogen or phosphates. Should I replace the substrate or add more? I guess i have been using the same fluval stratum for over a year now. I had no idea they could be exhausted.


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## Arcteryx

Good thread, and so helpful to see the pictures too so I could see exactly what you were talking about. Good luck and hope you get this fixed up (you have a lot of the same plants I do, and in the same tank too - but I only run x1 light)


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## neven

i really do think you ran into a substrate issue. Substrates like yours can last a long time if you dose the water column with all the nutrients (any of the systems work really).

Now sure you can replace the substrate, but that means removing the livestock and rescaping everything. Spiking the susbtrate with fert tabs, or home made ferts can work just as well. A common method not often mentioned on the forum is mudsicles. People make ice cubes (1/2 full in the tray) out of mixes including mud, potters clay, and/or osmocote.

Since its a pain to find a slow release omsocote here, you can just use this:
Miracle-Gro | Miracle-Gro® Shake 'n Feed™ Slow Release Plant Food 19-6-12 for Containers | Home Depot Canada

im sure the micro nutrients in your substrate are still fine, so you likely can just use osmocote and skip the clay and soil.


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## Atom

I was planning on doing a rescape anyway. Perhaps I can add new substrate to the existing one? I have some Ada Amazonia leftover. Could I mix the different substrates?

I haven't had time to read everything in the links yet, but if I were to purchase a bottle fix I should supplement with nitrogen and or phosphate or macros? I might look into root tabs for the rosaelia and bacopa. Any brand recommendations? I assume root tabs don't work on java, anubias and frogbit since their roots don't reach the substrate. 

I have thinned out some of the frogbit so they don't hog the nutrients. Should I remove the duckweed too??


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## liquid_krystale

I'll be watching this thread with interest, since I'm experiencing similar symptoms with my tank. I had my java fern growing great with only 1 antique 20 watt aqua-glo T8 in my 15 gallon, gravel substrate, no ferts or Co2 of any kind. 

However, once I put it into my new tank with metricide dosing, ADA aqua soil, ferts (just started dosing last week, so we'll hopefully see a difference) it showed the exact same brown spots and dying leaves that I saw in your posted pic. My other plants are not doing well either and I'm scrambling to find ways to save them. Anubias haven't come out with new leaves since I intro'd them, about 3+ weeks ago, and sword has rotten holes peppering the leaves. My egeria melts away, and I had to put it in my 15 gallon (now with 24 watt sun blaster) where it actually grows. I suspect that my one 24 watt sun blaster T5 is not sufficient for the 33 gallon, as well as ferts are limiting growth.

Anyways...I'll report back if I see any change and I'll be watching this and other plant help threads as well.


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## TomC

Have you checked the ph and hardness?


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## neven

There is no problem mixing substrates. As for root tab, I'm partial to jobe spikes, biut will be switching over to the stuff I linked. If you spike some of the plants, more of the nutrients from fish wastes will be available for the ferns and anubias.

as for egeria is very sensitive to metricide and will melt

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## 2wheelsx2

As others have said, you're lacking macros. As your plant mass increases, so does the overall uptake. So CO2 (if you're using) or Excel use has to increase, ferts have to increase and pruning must increase to ensure some plants are not overtaking the whole thing. 

Changing the substrate is an idea, but nothing is going to beat column dosing. And changing the substrate is not going to help your floating plants (frogbit) or your epiphytes (Java Fern and Anubias).


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## Atom

After reading the article by Barr and the info you all have shared I have a slightly better understanding. Thank you all so much. It's still all very new to me even though I've started a year ago.

Basically of the Macros I am missing Nitrogen and Phosphorous which have been depleted because my plants have used/need more than what I have available in the tank. I am assuming if I supplement roots tabs the rooted plants will derive most of the nutrients from the substrate and leave more in the water column for the plants like the java, anubias and frogbit. I have taken out most of the frogbit as I am told it is good at sucking up nutrients. Hopefully with the tabs there will be more nitrates to go around. Should I invest in liquid solutions of nitrogen and phosphate or should I see what tabs can do by itself? Or should I combine tabs and additional liquid solutions? I was looking at Seachem Root Tabs and they don't contain nitrate or phosphorous just trace elements, which I already have been dosing should I be looking for a specific kind/ingredient?

I'm worried I might over do it and kill my shrimp.


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## 2wheelsx2

Dose dry ferts. Cheap and easy. What kind of shrimp? Cherries? Even with CRS a little bit of KNO3 and KH2PO4 shouldn't hurt.


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## Atom

2wheelsx2 said:


> Dose dry ferts. Cheap and easy. What kind of shrimp? Cherries? Even with CRS a little bit of KNO2 and KH2PO4 shouldn't hurt.


Cherries and amanos. Any advice or links to dry ferts? I'm afraid it may be too much for this newbie.


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## Morainy

A very interesting and useful post. I am benefiting from all the responses, too.


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## 2wheelsx2

Talk to Patrick (MyKiss) of Canadian Aquatics. You'll want K2SO4 to dose for Potassium, KNO3 for nitrates and KH2PO4 for phosphates. Cherries and Amanos will be fine. While you're at it, get some GH booster and it'll dose Mg/Ca and trace too.

$5 a lb, so $20 will last you years. Item


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## Atom

I'm finding this previous thread quite useful: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/plan...-lighting-13/nitrate-shrimps-vs-plants-14267/

I forgot to mention that I also treat my water with Prime. I know it detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. Should I minimize or stop?


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## Luc

I've had this problem ever since I've started my planted
Tank I've always bee curious as to why I could never have solid growth for more than 
A week or so I like neven's mud sickle idea that's something I'll totally be trying soon here as well as start to fert again I stopped because I thought that was the original issue so glad someone finally made a topic like this and thank you to any one who has useful information and posts it here I will now proceed to stop jacking the thread haha


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## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Talk to Patrick (MyKiss) of Canadian Aquatics. You'll want K2SO4 to dose for Potassium, KNO3 for nitrates and KH2PO4 for phosphates. Cherries and Amanos will be fine. While you're at it, get some GH booster and it'll dose Mg/Ca and trace too.
> 
> $5 a lb, so $20 will last you years. Item


If anyone needs any of the fertilizers, contact me as I have a bunch that i'm trying to sell for a friend (eternity302) via Pat. I'm in Vancouver.

For a planted tank you'll need to regimently ensure the plants get enough lights, nutrients, and co2.

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## 2wheelsx2

Atom said:


> I forgot to mention that I also treat my water with Prime. I know it detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. Should I minimize or stop?


Prime is fine. It detoxifies ammonia, not nitrates. I think most people here use some form of Prime (I use ClorAm-X and Seachem Safe, both do about the same thing, but it's a bulk dry chemical, since I do 300 gallons of water changes a week  )


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## Atom

Thank you everyone. I have a lot to do. I've got a plan so we will see how it goes. Maybe I'll start a journal for my progress and rescaping in the future.


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## 2wheelsx2

Atom said:


> Thank you everyone. I have a lot to do. I've got a plan so we will see how it goes. Maybe I'll start a journal for my progress and rescaping in the future.


You should. You'd be amazed at what your tank looks like after a while. It also tracks what changes you made and how it affected the growth, colouration, scaping, etc. Don't be shy. It's not like we're all Tom Barrs or Takashi Amanos.


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## Atom

I don't know...some of you sure have some beautiful amano and barr worthy tanks! 

I'm hoping to pick up some new plants to replace the ones that died recently. Is that a bad idea? Should I just wait before adding new plants and how long? I'm picking up root tabs this week and as well as some macros. 

I have a vision for a rescape and I'm itching to try it out! Patience patience.


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## 2wheelsx2

No reason to wait. As long as the plants are compatible with Excel and you will be dosing macros, I see no reason why you can't put in new plants.


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## roadrunner

Thanx for the post. I've been having same problems in my tank and I haven't really figured it out yet, so I'm really looking forward seeing your progress. Please keep us posted.


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## Atom

I will for sure! I've only started dosing seachem nitrogen yesterday and potassium a week ago. Hopefully it will help.

I have a question though....once a plant has holes, gone yellow or developed brown spots is it irreversible meaning it won't ever repair itself? I'm asking because since dosing more macros I was hoping my affected anubias and java fern would stop turning brown, but it's still wasting away. I'm guessing the tissue damage is too far gone and I will have to give up on those plants? Should I remove them so they don't suck up nutrients?


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## jobber

I would trim the dying and pinhole leaves which can force the plant to grow new leaves.

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## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> I would trim the dying and pinhole leaves which can force the plant to grow new leaves.


Ming's spot on. Get rid of the old/dying leaves so the plant can utilize its energy to grow new nice ones.


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