# Planted tank - no ammonia?



## giraffee (Mar 28, 2011)

Hello Dear Fish People... It's me again, the clueless one  So, as some of you may know from my previous threads, we are currently cycling the 65G fish tank that will eventually be a discus playground. The tank was filled with water last Tuesday and fish (11 zebra danios) was added on Wednesday. The plants were in over the next two days. Currently there are two java ferns, three tall anubiases, one anubais berteri, one sword plant, three bunches of spiralis, dwarf grass, dwarf baby tears (not doing so hot)... So after a week of all that in the tank there is no ammonia... So since plants consume ammonia - does this mean that the tank will never cycle? I read that in planted tanks people bypass cycling all together and just start adding fish after a month or so. However, since adding more fish would potentially add more ammonia than the plants consume wouldn't that kill the fish? Considering that we are planning on keeping discus, who are supposedly very sensitive to bad water conditions - I find this all very confusing.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Rex Grigg explains it much better than I can: Cycling a Planted Tank | Rex's Guide to Planted Tanks


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## giraffee (Mar 28, 2011)

I read that, but thank you anyways Gary


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

OK, then you get the main parts of it. The part you are probably not getting is no matter how transient the ammonia is, some is released so, during that time, the filter media, substrate, plants, etc. will be building its own colony of bacteria. So as long as you add fish at reasonable stocking levels, then you won't have a problem. And the great part about that is that you're not subjecting them to harmless levels of ammonia and nitrite because the plants will preferentially take them up before utilizing nitrate.

Hopefully that's more useful to you.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

You've done some homework as to cycling with plants - so I won't add anything to that.

One thought for you though, as you're planning this to be a discus tank - Zebra danios are a constantly, swiftly-moving fish and are not recommended as being suitable tankmates for discus. The rapid movement activity of the zebras will tend to stress the discus, particularly if you get juvies. I'm sure some discus-keepers have successfully kept these 2 species together, but imo that's pushing the envelope. Why take a chance of unnecessarily rattling your new beauties when you get them.


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## giraffee (Mar 28, 2011)

I think it's the part of not being able to measure and decidedly see the levels going up and down that bothers me. It feels too uncertain, to just assume that it is safe to add fish. It makes sense - the way you explain it. I guess we will wait two months and then add the rams. Next candidates would be algae eaters. Discus will definitely go in last...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Just keep measuring, and as long as you detect no ammonia, you're golden.

And Paul is right, I'd get the danios out of there before you add the discus, if it were up to me.


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## giraffee (Mar 28, 2011)

Thank you emile. Yes, the danios will need to be moved/sold/given away at that time. They are pesterers (it is not a real word though, right?)

Tankmates as planned - 4 rams, 2-3 algae eaters, 1BNP or zebra pleco (unless plecoholics object to that ), and eventually 5-6 juvie discus... Kuhli loaches were on the list as well, but I think I like plecos better.... And there will be a few more plants probably too...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

> Tankmates as planned - 4 rams, 2-3 algae eaters, 1BNP or zebra pleco (unless plecoholics object to that ), and eventually 5-6 juvie discus... Kuhli loaches were on the list as well, but I think I like plecos better.... And there will be a few more plants probably too...


Algae eaters as in SAE? Don't do it. As the grow they stop eating algae and eat food and harrass other fish. Get a bnp for algae control, and Amano shrimp.

Zebras and other Hypancistrus are perfect for Discus tanks as they can handle warmer temps and higher protein diets. So will smaller Peckoltia species.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Algae eaters as in SAE? Don't do it. As the grow they stop eating algae and eat food and harrass other fish. Get a bnp for algae control, and Amano shrimp.
> 
> Zebras and other Hypancistrus are perfect for Discus tanks as they can handle warmer temps and higher protein diets. So will smaller Peckoltia species.


Now I have to say it back - Gary's right. SAE's & Oto Cats get lazy as they grow, and stop eating algae - AND start taking a real liking for discus' slime coats.
Most BNP's, and Amanos, are great as discus tankmates.


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## giraffee (Mar 28, 2011)

You guys are kind of awesome  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Now, emile, THAT was the deciding argument ) As soon as I read aloud about SAE and discus slime coat my dear husband immediately said that we don't like them any more  Lazy fish, fine. Harassing discus - not an option. 

Okay, so the plan is - waterchange tonight as water is getting murky from the dwarf baby tears falling apart. Watch for any spikes for the next three weeks. Then simultaneously get rid of zebra danios and get rams. If rams are fine after a week, we can probably add BNP (just one? or two?). I am yet to educate myself on the shrimps... We wanted to have shrimp tank, but separately and in a year or so... And then, finally add the discus. So all in all - 6-8 weeks till discus? 

Is it okay to do waterchanges? I am not sure how that affects cycling...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

You should try to avoid water changes until you have measurable nitrates. Dilution of the waste products to reduce the food source for the beneficial bacterial. At least until you get more fish in there.


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## giraffee (Mar 28, 2011)

Now that's painful. Algae started growing on the wood and glass. Add to that no water changes and the tank looks pretty scary. Thank you for your advice Gary


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Every time goes through a green dust algae phase and brown algae phase on startup. It'll clean up soon enough. Get that bnp and it'll clean it up and will also be a source of ammonia for the tank too.


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