# Time for a new tank, have a couple equipment questions



## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

My old 8 gallon packed it in, so I am moving up to a 20 gallon long (I think), I have heard of some great benefits of canister filters so I was thinking of going with the fluval 105, is this a good filter for a 20? or should I consider going with the 205 rated for 40 gallons? Is the fluval a good brand of filter?

As for lighting I was looking at the Hagen Glo duel 24" T5 lamp with a total of 48 watts, will this give me pretty decent lighting? Perhaps adding a second in the future for 96 watts? I would like to plant it and not have many restrictions for what to plant

Does anyone have experience with the fluval osaka 40 gallon kit? by the time its all said and done I am close to what its on sale for anyways with just the 20 gallon, but I don't know if it comes with the filters and such, or if its a good quality tank.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

If you arent worried about cost, i would look into getting the Osaka 155- 40 gallon package instead.It includes the canister (fluval),light fixture T5 and the bulbs are there,heater,cabinet,food,thermometer and other stuff.All this and your ready to go. This line of hagen aquariums was popular with many and i havent heard or seen any negative responses yet.It is an open top setup , so keep that in mind. I couldnt see you having any problems growing a decent bunch of plants in this aquarium.It all depends on what you choose, the substrate,Co2,ferts,fish choices an so on.Personally i own and run fluval canisters and the T5 light fixtures from hagen, and iam impressed by both so far.Simple to setup,run,and maintain.No repairs whats so ever(knock on wood ) and parts are available through many sources.Check out Aquariums West.com for pics of their setup at their store.Good luck and have fun with your project.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Summit,
The first guide to purchasing an aquarium is obtain the largest aquarium you can afford. If the 40 is close to what you are looking at now for a 20, go for the 40. You will outgrow a 20 in no time. Is budget and space allows, always try to get the larger aquarium, it will give you more enjoyment for a much longer period before getting the bigger tank itch again.


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## Kitsune (Jul 17, 2010)

I have the Fluval Osaka 70 gallon, and a Fluval 305 (think?) canister filter.

The tank looks awesome with the nice curve edges, and i like all the details. If you want to see one in action, King Ed's has one right by the entrance door. It's landscaped super nice too.

I have had problems with the Fluval Osaka though... and I'm not sure what the cause of problem was entirely. We got it second hand from a friend who never actually used it. He had it sitting there for 1 year though. Anyway when we got, we filled it up and then there was a small leak at the back corner. We siliconed the back. Filled it up again.. started to leak at the front. We took it outside to see how bad it would leak. It was SUPER bad. The water was spewing out at 6 different locations. So I stripped 80 percent of the silicone on the bottom and re-siliconed the entire thing. Now its running perfectly (cross fingers). The silicone was very brittle and came off really easy though. I'm not sure if this was a manufacturing issue or if we moved it too many times, or if it was because it sat there for 1 year without being used.... We looked all over online but couldn't find any comments about people having problems or anything (for that matter I couldn't find a lot of information at all). Apparently the tank is now discontinued (after only a year). 

The tank construction is slightly different from what i've seen. Bottom is constructed out of 1 large sheet, but then have skinner sheets on the corners. I like this, mainly because it gives redundancy on the seals. If one silicone seal breaks, it won't leak. It'll take two breaks in the same location before it can leak. That was in theory, but mine still leaked.... 

I also like the edges. The front and sides are one piece, so the only corner joints are the two in the back. And they are done very nicely so no worry about the pealing silicone edges. 

I love the canister too. Probably because I am a super geek and like the fact that I can mix and match different medias in it (6 compartments). Never had it leak on my (except for when my husband pulled the hose out of the canister without closing the valve). I've never had a problem with it (but I've been using it for only 3 months now).


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

thanks guys, so I forgot to add the filter to the Fluval osaka, so that made the price go up quite a bit so I have decided on the 20. I picked up the tank today with some driftwood, and have the wood soaking as we speak, I think I am going to go with seachem onyx sand for the substrate which I will pick up tommorrow hopefully, along with the Fluval 105, then lighting to follow.

I may as well do something with the 8 gallon I have now, its a nice bowfront but the pump is blown out, so maybe it will make a nice shrimp tank, what kind of filter should I be looking for in a shrimp tank at 8 gallon so as not to suck up the babies? I have heard the best way is to put a sponge filter in? Would you also put in a powerhead for water cirulation?

I have on of these already, would this be good to rase shrimp?
http://www.mrpets.ca/Products/Product.aspx?ID=4019&&categoryid=3


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

*Fluval 105 or 205 for 20 Gallon?*

One thing regarding the equiptment that I am still wondering about is the filter size, I bought the Fluval 105, but for the extra $30, am I better going with the 205? or will it be too much flow for a 20 gallon? I figured I better ask before its too late to return it


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

talk about it... i started with a 29gal this spring and i'm already going for a 250gal



Rastapus said:


> Summit,
> The first guide to purchasing an aquarium is obtain the largest aquarium you can afford. If the 40 is close to what you are looking at now for a 20, go for the 40. You will outgrow a 20 in no time. Is budget and space allows, always try to get the larger aquarium, it will give you more enjoyment for a much longer period before getting the bigger tank itch again.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm running a Fluval 204 in a 20 and had to add a Koralia mini to get enough circulation in my planted and CO2 injected tank. Just as a point of reference.


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

TCR said:


> talk about it... i started with a 29gal this spring and i'm already going for a 250gal


AHHH you guys are buggers! 

Ok so I am indecisive, what can I say, BC Aquaria, help me out!

20 gallon
20 gallon tank - $39
fluval 205 filter - $129
fluorite black sand (45 lbs) $60
T5HO lighting $139
Bulbs $60
total $427

Osaka 40 gallon
tank/stand/lighting/bulbs - $399
fluval 305 filter - $159
fluorite black sand (90 lbs) $120
total $678

The 20 gallon is more within my budget, but for an extra $250 I get a beautiful stand (no stand with 20 gallon, would be on a table), bigger filter, and bigger tank so the value side of me kicks in to spend the bit extra and get something twice as big in a really nice looking tank. The other side of me kicks in and says you have been in this hobby for 2 years, I have kept it up well but have not necessarily caught "the bug" and have not needed a bigger tank so far so why not go with the 20 for now and perhaps do a large upgrade in the future, that $200 could go elsewhere now. As well using the same lighting on both tanks, the 20 will be a much higher light tank so I could do more with it, does the duel 24W T5 give alot of light to the osaka 155 which is 24" deep? Or would I need to factor adding some lighting? Ahhh I dunno! at least I have some driftwood soaking whichever root I go! 

So BC aquaria, what do you think?


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

Invest in the 40Gallon. This way you wont regret it a few months down the road. Trust us on this...we have all been down the same road 

EDIT:

you can also consider Rena XP2 filter for the 40Gallon as it saves some $$
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/pf-apxp2/Aquarium+Pharmaceuticals+Filstar+XP2+Power+Filter.html

You can probably get it cheaper at King Ed's

Rena IME is also very reliable (more than Fluvals).

you can also find 2nd hand XP3s for $90-$100 here. XP2's are probably cheaper ($60-$80?)


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

Smiladon said:


> Invest in the 40Gallon. This way you wont regret it a few months down the road. Trust us on this...we have all been down the same road
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply, so your recommending the XP2 over the fluval 305? I am not too familiar with the canister filters but I do know I don't mind spending a bit extra to get a good quality one. I am starting to the osaka 155, not only for an extra $250 you get a nice stand, but the tank itself is very nice with bent glass edges on the front. Its still a pretty penny though so not an easy one to make!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The Osakas are very nice. If this is not in a fish room, I would seriously considering getting that instead of the 20. Plus 40 gallons gives you room to grow. The Fluvals and the Renas are both ok, but the XP's are better made and easier to clean, in my opinion.


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> The Osakas are very nice. If this is not in a fish room, I would seriously considering getting that instead of the 20. Plus 40 gallons gives you room to grow. The Fluvals and the Renas are both ok, but the XP's are better made and easier to clean, in my opinion.


Does Rena not make the XP cansiter filters? or am I confused? Is it more of a preferance between the fluval/rena/??? or is there one cleary more used in the hobby because of ease of use or reliability?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Sorry, I use Rena and XP interchangeably. Rena makes more than the XP's, as I have a Smartfilter also. I don't know if one is used more than the other, but I know the Fluvals have more bypass then the XPs. I have 3 Eheims (2028,2213, and 2078 new) and 2 Fluvals (FX5 and 204) and an XP3), so you can tell I prefer Eheims, but they are pricey. The FX5 is a great filter for a big tank, but when it comes to smaller ones I prefer the Rena XP's.


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Sorry, I use Rena and XP interchangeably. Rena makes more than the XP's, as I have a Smartfilter also. I don't know if one is used more than the other, but I know the Fluvals have more bypass then the XPs. I have 3 Eheims (2028,2213, and 2078 new) and 2 Fluvals (FX5 and 204) and an XP3), so you can tell I prefer Eheims, but they are pricey. The FX5 is a great filter for a big tank, but when it comes to smaller ones I prefer the Rena XP's.


Ahh I see, so between the eheim, rena XP series, and fluval they are all pretty much equal, just comes down to some do certain jobs better. Well the Rena XP2 is actually a little cheaper than the Fluval 305, I believe you pointed that out to me in an earlier thread, so thank you, there is also an eheim 2213 that fits the budget. Lots to consider here, I guess its between the Rena XP2, Fluval 305, and Eheim 2213, if the Rena does the best job on a 40 gallon tank with 24"x24"x18" then Rena it will be.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The 2213 will be borderline for a planted 40 gallon. If I had a choice between those 3 I would go XP2. The main reason I choose (and many others) Eheim is because they maintain flow better as the filter gets clogged, they use less power and they are the quietest. Those 3 factors make it fit my needs better. The fact that they have zero (or almost zero) bypass, unlike most other filters, is a bonus.


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## Kitsune (Jul 17, 2010)

Before we get too carried away here. What fish are you planning to get (I don't think I recall seeing it anywhere on this thread)... 

20 gallons isn't a very large tank, so you can only keep a few medium sized fish (i.e. many angels, cichlids, discus, gouramis, plecos, barbs etc will get too large for the tank within a year). If you were going with the tetra's I would think a 20g is more than enough. 

So the question is ultimately what do you need for the type of fish you are getting? Considering size, aggression, need for companions etc. (I misjudged this when I got my 20 g... now I have a 30g and a 70 g!).


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

Hmm, I like quiet, is the eheim worth upgrading to the 2215 or perhaps even the professional series? Or would you still go with the XP3 in a 40 gallon?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

summit said:


> Hmm, I like quiet, is the eheim worth upgrading to the 2215 or perhaps even the professional series? Or would you still go with the XP3 in a 40 gallon?


Worth is up to you. Some people think the Eheims are a waste of money and they the Renas and fluvals (even HOBs), but I hate splashing and I hate hum. So I can't really give you an answer there.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

If money is not an issue, then go for ehiem. If you are tight on money then get Rena XP2. Ditch fluval as its more expensive than Rena XP Series and crappier (in certain aspects)

I've heard lots of stories about fluvals breaking (mostly seals or impellers). 

I have Ehiem Pro 3 2080, Ehiem 2260, Fluval FX5 and Rena XP3s. 

Reliability is a main factor for me in deciding on filters, so I dont even have the older fluvals in my list. Fluval FX5 has a different design (partially stolen from eheim?) so I think it is exempt from my "not to get" list.

Eheim is very quiet (but some models are a pain to prime). XP3 is simply awesome. Prime once and forget about it.


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## 182 (Apr 21, 2010)

Not to highjack this thread (Hey, could be useful to the OP) but how do you like the FX5? Is it all it's cracked up to be in the fancy in-store displays?


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

Well as for fish, I really liked the look of my old tank, low light planted 8G bowfront with a 4 cardinal tetras and 4 galaxy rasboras, along with a few red cherry shrimp, some sunset tropica, anubias nana petite, dwarf amazon sword, some nice driftwood. I would be doing something very similar in the 40 gallon, probly around 10 of each of the cardinals and galaxy rasboras, perhaps a couple larger ones for feature fish, nothing too large though, you make a good point though as a planted tank is the main thing I am after, which the 20 might be a better suit. 

Thats another reason why I am having such a hard time is the live plants are where I got most of my enjoyment, and would like the option to go with a high light setup at some point, this will be more expensive to achieve in the FLuval osaka 155 as it is 24" tall and only comes with 24W duel T5 lighting for 48W. I understand the duel 24W T5 lighting is not alot of light in a 24" tall tank, and even if I put 4 of them on there its still only 192W of T5 lighting. If I went with the 20 gallon which is only 16" height it seems the 48W of lighting would give me more bang for my buck, and allow me to put some higher light plants in there?

And thanks for the other advice, I will go with either the eheim or rena, just a matter of which model now. I don't want to spend my hard earned cash, but also spending a couple hundred extra bucks on better equipment that will save me hassle down the road is not going to break the bank either. I want the best bang for my buck, and realize sometimes you have to pay a bit more to get the better product for the long run.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

Otter said:


> Not to highjack this thread (Hey, could be useful to the OP) but how do you like the FX5? Is it all it's cracked up to be in the fancy in-store displays?


It has nothing to do with marketing. Its about design and efficiency as well as projected reliability (projected because its still "new" in a sense). I've had 2 FX5s and they have been very good until now. The physical design is very similar to eheim 2260. The only difference is that eheim 2260 has the motor on the top and connected directly to the output hose and FX5 has the motor in the bottom (side).

If you want more details, feel free to PM me


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

summit said:


> Well as for fish, I really liked the look of my old tank, low light planted 8G bowfront with a 4 cardinal tetras and 4 galaxy rasboras, along with a few red cherry shrimp, some sunset tropica, anubias nana petite, dwarf amazon sword, some nice driftwood. I would be doing something very similar in the 40 gallon, probly around 10 of each of the cardinals and galaxy rasboras, perhaps a couple larger ones for feature fish, nothing too large though, you make a good point though as a planted tank is the main thing I am after, which the 20 might be a better suit.
> 
> Thats another reason why I am having such a hard time is the live plants are where I got most of my enjoyment, and would like the option to go with a high light setup at some point, this will be more expensive to achieve in the FLuval osaka 155 as it is 24" tall and only comes with 24W duel T5 lighting for 48W. I understand the duel 24W T5 lighting is not alot of light in a 24" tall tank, and even if I put 4 of them on there its still only 192W of T5 lighting. If I went with the 20 gallon which is only 16" height it seems the 48W of lighting would give me more bang for my buck, and allow me to put some higher light plants in there?
> 
> And thanks for the other advice, I will go with either the eheim or rena, just a matter of which model now. I don't want to spend my hard earned cash, but also spending a couple hundred extra bucks on better equipment that will save me hassle down the road is not going to break the bank either. I want the best bang for my buck, and realize sometimes you have to pay a bit more to get the better product for the long run.


If it is mainly for planted, then maybe the Osaka would be too tall unless you invest in better lights (I am not an expert in plants and lighting so I could be totally wrong here).

Maybe you want to do a bit more research on the tank options?


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## 182 (Apr 21, 2010)

Some folks'd take exception for even suggesting this, but I ran a 40 gallon tank with nothing more than a UG filter and two powerheads. Fully planted with low-tech flora. UG gave me the cleanest (clearest) water I've ever had. And silent. (using aquaclear power heads)

That said, it obviously comes down to preference. But I'll back up everyone here by saying that you should go for the Osaka. What a beautiful tank! And growing plants out the top would be super cool.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

summit said:


> Thats another reason why I am having such a hard time is the live plants are where I got most of my enjoyment, and would like the option to go with a high light setup at some point, this will be more expensive to achieve in the FLuval osaka 155 as it is 24" tall and only comes with 24W duel T5 lighting for 48W. I understand the duel 24W T5 lighting is not alot of light in a 24" tall tank, and even if I put 4 of them on there its still only 192W of T5 lighting. If I went with the 20 gallon which is only 16" height it seems the 48W of lighting would give me more bang for my buck, and allow me to put some higher light plants in there?


The problem is footprint. The 20 is so small front to back you can hardly do anything with it. That's why I am taking down my 20 when I get my square tank up (30x30x24). The light is easily upgraded. You can sell your GLO and hang a Tek up there easily. You can get up to 8x24" in a Tek. And don't make the mistake in thinking a 24" tank is tall. It's not. A 30" is getting there, but 24" is not tall at all. And not all lights are equal. You can't compare a Coralife 65W PC light to a 48" watt Tek or GLO setup. The reflectors and the restrike of a PC light is horrible compared to a proper HO t5 setup. 200 W of a proper HO T5 will get you such explosive growth that you'll have trouble managing it, depending on the plants you choose. If you want to see what a proper light setup is like, go talk to Bien at King Ed's and ask to check out his Tek's. You can hardly look at the tanks if all the bulbs are lit up.


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

Makes me feel much better regarding the lighting upgrades, thanks, especially to smiladon and 2wheelsx2

well thank you all for your advice, I really appreciate it. I did do my tank research, really I did!, but I was having a really hard time deciding if I want a smaller, higher light tank, or a larger, more visually appealing lower light tank that can be upgraded, but have to put out a bit more cash up front. Both had their pros and cons to what I wanted to do with it, and you all helped me in making that decision so thank you!

I just ordered my Osaka 155, $399 seems pretty good to me.

Now regarding the filter, I am pretty much set on the Rena XP2, I just want to look more closely into the eheim lines and prices. One question I do struggle with for point of referance, is there such thing as too much filtration or flow in a tank, or do the filters all have a way to cut the flow down? I see so many people running filters much bigger than the tank recommendations, and I wonder when is too much? As I would like to buy a bigger filter rather than a smaller one, as its not much more money, and its useful for upgrades in the future if you went to a bigger tank, but I also do not want to overdo the filtration and have too much flow. Is there a general rule to how many GPH per gallon of tank? IE 20 gallon don't go over 250 GPH, or in a community tank it should not go over xxx GPH?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

If you look at true flow rates when the canister is full of media, then it isn't as crazy as you think. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21164&d=1275695782 Not sure if you can see that link, but if you can, you'll see that most of the canisters will have 1/2 or less than their advertised flow rates. There's no such thing as too much filtration, there is too much flow. There are many solutions to stem flow.
1. Fancier filters will allow you to switch it electronically (eheim, fluval G)
2. Some filters allow you to switch it mechanically at the outlet (Rena) or on the hoses or tap (Eheim and Fluval).
3. You can use a spray bar and drill bigger holes.
4. You can pack in micro filtration media.

Unless you go crazy and put an FX5 on a 20 gallon, there really isn't a problem that can't be solved. The thing is that you probably don't want to spend $600 on an Eheim 2262 which is 1/2 the capacity of a 20 gallon itself almost.


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> If you look at true flow rates when the canister is full of media, then it isn't as crazy as you think. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21164&d=1275695782 Not sure if you can see that link, but if you can, you'll see that most of the canisters will have 1/2 or less than their advertised flow rates. There's no such thing as too much filtration, there is too much flow. There are many solutions to stem flow.
> 1. Fancier filters will allow you to switch it electronically (eheim, fluval G)
> 2. Some filters allow you to switch it mechanically at the outlet (Rena) or on the hoses or tap (Eheim and Fluval).
> 3. You can use a spray bar and drill bigger holes.
> ...


Thank you! That helps a great deal on choosing a filter, I am always worried I am going to buy something that I will outgrow, and have to buy a new one, where if I spent the extra $30 in the beginning, it would grow with me more if I chose to go to a larger tank in the future. By the way those Tek lights are very nice, I had not come accross those yet, not too bad of pricing either, but I cannot find the 8 bulb 24", it dosnt seem to be listed on the site.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

summit said:


> Thank you! That helps a great deal on choosing a filter, I am always worried I am going to buy something that I will outgrow, and have to buy a new one, where if I spent the extra $30 in the beginning, it would grow with me more if I chose to go to a larger tank in the future. By the way those Tek lights are very nice, I had not come accross those yet, not too bad of pricing either, but I cannot find the 8 bulb 24", it dosnt seem to be listed on the site.


Hmmm...sorry I guess I spoke without doing all the research. Now that I look at it, 4 bulbs is 12 inches and would have all the coverage you need. I guess if you wanted more, you'd have to get 2 fixtures to make it 24" wide.

Edit:

Guess I was thinking of the Catalina. I knew I had seen it somewhere. http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_190&products_id=1412 The Catalinas have good reviews. I know of at least one BCA'er who has a set and was considering one myself at one point.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

If you want something bigger, I would recommend XP3 as its not too expensive and you can run it on a 75Gallon tank (I am using it in my planted 75Gallon right now).

It comes with a mechanical switch to reduce flow and a spraybar.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Summit : I have posted you on this before.
Go for the Osaka 40 gal. You won't regret it - gorgeous display tank. Even with the 24" height/depth, T5 HO will provide all the light you need for plant growth, good looks, etc.


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## summit (Aug 22, 2010)

its on order  excited for it to come in, got most things needed on order, just a matter of settling on a filter now and starting to prep everything for setup. I think I will start a tank build thread when it comes in for anyone who wants to follow along, as well as a spot for me to post what I assume will be a few billion questions as I go along! haha, I tell ya I owe a few people on this site some beer already!


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

*Your Osaka 155*

I see your Osaka is on order - great - as I said before, you'll love it !
And p.s. -: I forgot to mention - your $399. price is fantastic - Mine was $600 about 8 months ago - tank, stand & lights, but they threw in an HOB filter & a heater. Also pm'd you re: your question about open top. No problem.


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