# Replacing carbon filter with?



## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

So, after much research and examples in my tank of early signs of HITH (hole in the head), I'm
going to replace my carbon filter with extra padding or biomedia. Lots of forums out here suggesting
carbon, if left too long without replacing, could be the cause of HITH. So, I'll give it a shot.
I scratch my head on this one as I am very dilligent on doing 50% wc weekly, so I don't quite
understand why HITH shows up. I also feed quite a variety of different foods, mainly NLS & Hikari based
veggie foods. If anyone has any ideas as to what else might be going on, feel free to chime in.


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## AdobeOtoCat (Dec 10, 2011)

How old is your discus. Adult or juvie. Tank. Bare bottom or planted. 

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

No discus, this was occuring in my Geos. This was on adults, sand bottom, few pieces of driftwood as well.
It is on a 90G tank, with XP3 & AC110


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

I never use carbon ever. Instead i use purigen, and even then only to remove medication. Weekly 50% wc is good, what about gravel vacs?

I have also heard that once carbon is used up it will start to leech back into the water. However in my opinion i find this highly unlikely as the carbon has bonded with whatever its taking out, not just simply absorbing.


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

Yes, always gravel vac...in this case, hovering over the sand to pickup debris as I don't have gravel in the tank.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

What's your nitrate level at just before a wc?


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

Carbon really shouldnt be use ld in a tank unless youre taking out medication. Replace it with bio media, maybe the problem will right itself.


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> What's your nitrate level at just before a wc?


Haven't really checked lately to be honest..I figured with my wc's, the readings should be good...but I'll check this week.


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## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

What's the total stocking?


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

And hardness level? HITH may occur when the water is too soft?
Purigen is a good media if you want some chemical filtration, it can be recharged and reused.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

I second the purigen.Also yo may want to put in a power head for circulation.And Carbon is useless unless you are taking out meds.Get some matrix and stuff your filter.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

adanac50 said:


> Haven't really checked lately to be honest..I figured with my wc's, the readings should be good...but I'll check this week.


Unfortunately, these things have a way of getting away on us. I thought the same thing....and then I lost my Blue Eyed Pleco. Turns out my nitrate kit was no good (expired) and even with weekly 60% wc, my nitrate was at 80 ppm as it crept up week after week. I went to 2 wc a week for a month and the problem resolved itself. Having my biggest pleco die helped significantly since it reduced the bioload. WC's are a much cheaper way to lower waste products though....hopefully this isn't the problem you're having.


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Unfortunately, these things have a way of getting away on us. I thought the same thing....and then I lost my Blue Eyed Pleco. Turns out my nitrate kit was no good (expired) and even with weekly 60% wc, my nitrate was at 80 ppm as it crept up week after week. I went to 2 wc a week for a month and the problem resolved itself. Having my biggest pleco die helped significantly since it reduced the bioload. WC's are a much cheaper way to lower waste products though....hopefully this isn't the problem you're having.


Yeah, hard to say, I haven't got a lot of fish in my 90G right now so that is puzzling..I replaced my carbon bag in my XP3 last night and
replaced it with a mesh bag of Purigen. I didn't test my nitrate levels as I don't have a kit. I'll do a wc this week and see if the HITH will
subside or not. HITH has so many related factors, hard to pinpoint just one...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I used to deal with HITH all the time with my Oscars (when I had them) in smaller tanks - up to 55 gallons. In a 90, you should have plenty of water volume and area for it not to be hormone or waste product related. One thing you can try, even without test kits, is to up the water change frequency. That would solve any GH/pH/KH issues as well as waste issues. If you're not using any sort of buffers, I'd consider starting to use them as well.


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I used to deal with HITH all the time with my Oscars (when I had them) in smaller tanks - up to 55 gallons. In a 90, you should have plenty of water volume and area for it not to be hormone or waste product related. One thing you can try, even without test kits, is to up the water change frequency. That would solve any GH/pH/KH issues as well as waste issues. If you're not using any sort of buffers, I'd consider starting to use them as well.


Will adding a small piece of limestone rock help in buffering the water? Coincidentally, I removed some small pieces of limestone rock abou 6-8 months ago..
wonder if that affected the water somewhat?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Without checking the pH, it's hard to say if that was the source of the problem. Limestone would up the pH/KH, but would not do much with the GH. Adding a bit of Epsom salts would help with that. I would say add the limestone, or a bag or crushed coral in your filter, and throw in a 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salts with each water change.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Are you using prime Rob?


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

Vman said:


> Are you using prime Rob?


Yes..religiously.. 

2Wheels..would the limestone AND adding the crushed coral to the filter..wouldn't that be enough to buffer?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

adanac50 said:


> 2Wheels..would the limestone AND adding the crushed coral to the filter..wouldn't that be enough to buffer?


It would go a long way towards it. I personally always add some GH buffer (Epsom salts, Equilibrium, etc.), but my tanks are almost all planted. In a fish only tank, or a tank with a minor plant load, doing the crushed coral would probably be sufficient, as long as regular water changes are done.


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> It would go a long way towards it. I personally always add some GH buffer (Epsom salts, Equilibrium, etc.), but my tanks are almost all planted. In a fish only tank, or a tank with a minor plant load, doing the crushed coral would probably be sufficient, as long as regular water changes are done.


I can put the Purigen & crushed coral bag in the same basket in the XP3..correct?

This topic gets me thinking..there are not a lot of examples of Malawi/Tanganyikans getting HITH..correct?
Most examples ae SA cichlids..wondering if it's the water chemistry and/or hardness issue with HITH?

Just throwing it out there...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

adanac50 said:


> I can put the Purigen & crushed coral bag in the same basket in the XP3..correct?
> 
> This topic gets me thinking..there are not a lot of examples of Malawi/Tanganyikans getting HITH..correct?
> Most examples ae SA cichlids..wondering if it's the water chemistry and/or hardness issue with HITH?
> ...


Yes, in the last basket so that all the filtering is done.

It could be partially water chemistry and/or genetics, along with other environmental factors.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Carbon is also good for removing smell from water and color (yellow tinge) also. I agree it doesn't need to be run all the time but I do run it in my Hang on filter every now and than for a day or 2. I use the spots where I would put carbon it in my filter for Bio media. Ive heard good things about purigen but I don't use it.

I had large Cichlids before and read a lot about hole in the head. One guy claimed that none of his Ciclids got HITH if the tank had a filter with a Bio wheel on it. I read this years ago. I cant remember if he had proof. I know there are different types of good bacteria growing in our filters. Some grow great under water while others need air. This is why the new Aquaclear/ fluval F4 has a few different areas for bacteria to grow. One at the top that gets air. Its a pad and bio balls at the bottom. Now some will argue this has nothing to do with anything. Im not saying it does or doesn't. Its just something I read and made sense to me because I run my tanks on this logic. The more bio the better  

Before you go adding limestone and crush coral to your filter you might want to go purchase all the proper measuring tools. Nitrite, nitrate, Kh,Gh etc........ testers. What ever you don't have and start testing things. Go buy a notebook of some sort and start recording your findings. As 2wheelsx said your tank could be way off track and you don't even know it. Best bet IMO get things back on track than start adding things. It will save your fish in the long run


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

I experienced HITH with my Calvus fry a few years ago. I bought about 20 from Reserve stock cichlids ant kept them in a 20 gallon at a friend's house. I didn't have enough filtration and my buddy over fed them.Then he started to so co on water changes.I lost about 50% of them. Then I got the tank back on track and rest survived.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Just found this 
Hole in the Head Disease is probably the most feared disease amongst people who keep Oscar fish. Hole in the Head Disease is not always fatal if caught early and treated. However, it can often leave terrible scarring on the fishes head which may be permanent after the disease has healed.

Hole in the Head Disease is relatively easy to diagnose. In its very early stages you may notice one or two small holes appearing on the fish's head. Often the holes are very symmetrical, almost as if somebody has stuck a dart into the Oscars skin. If left these holes will gradually get bigger and grow in number. Holes and lesions may spread to the mouth area, around the gills and eyes. In severe cases the lateral line may start eroding. Once the condition becomes very bad, you may notice stringy mucus trailing from the wounds, people often mistake these for worms. The fish may well go off its food and develop a hollow bellied appearance.

Hole in the Head Disease is curable, but more importantly it is perfectly preventable. Regular tank maintenance, i.e. water changes, removing solid debris from the tank and filtration system will help keep the water in good condition. Good water conditions are the key to preventing Hole in the Head Disease in Oscar Fish.

If you notice Hole Head Disease developing then act quickly by first testing the quality of your aquarium water. Carry out an ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH test, preferably using a liquid test kit. In the majority of cases hole in the head disease is brought on by poor water conditions, it is extremely uncommon for fish to develop this disease for no reason. However, because stress is the main cause of hole in the head disease it could have been caused by the fish being exposed to large fluctuations in water temperature, normally occurring when water changes are carried out. If you discover that you have indeed got poor water conditions then you must act accordingly by carrying out a large water change to remove as much of the toxin as possible. You may also be wise to get a product called "Prime". This product not only removes chlorine, but also detoxifies ammonia and nitrite. One thing to remember when using these chemicals that "remove" ammonia is that they don't actually remove ammonia, what they do is detoxify the ammonia and turn it into ammonium which is a less toxic form of ammonia. Therefore, when you carry out a water test, you will still get a reading for ammonia, but you will actually be testing ammonium which is much much less harmful to fish. Carry out water changes until your ammonia and/or nitrite are back to zero and stay like that.

Nitrate is a byproduct of ammonia and nitrite. Whereas it is no where near as toxic as ammonia or nitrite, it must be kept as low as possible. Very high levels of nitrate will cause stress to your fish which in turn can bring on disease and illness such as Hole in the Head Disease. We do not recommend letting your nitrate exceed 40 ppm. Regular water changes will help keep nitrate levels low.

Early stages of Hole in the Head Disease can be cured by simply increasing your tank maintenance and water changes, making sure that there are no toxins present, and your nitrate is always low. Severe cases of hole in the head disease may need intervention from medication. One of the most recognized treatments for Hole in the Head is a medication called Metronidazole. Metronidazole comes in tablets and powder form, and is also part of the ingredients of some medication.

TREATING USING METRONIDAZOLE

Hexamita parasites are what cause Hole in the Head Disease. They are best treated using a medication called Metronidazole which needs to be obtained under prescription in the UK if bought in tablet form. This medication needs to be ingested by the fish, it can't simply be added to the tank like other medications. Obviously a fish is not going to simply eat these tablets, you will have to mix the medication with food so the fish will readily eat it. There are various ways to prepare Metronidazole so that it can be easily fed to your fish. 

Your veterinarian should prescribe you Metronidazole in tablet form which you will then need to crush into powder form. I would rather not give you exact measurements as this is a job for your veterinarian.  However, if you don't need a prescription and you can buy this medication off-the-shelf then they should come with detailed instructions of how much to use. If you are still confused them visit our community forum for advice. There are a couple of ways to prepare your food, one way is to take some frozen food, partially thaw it, mix the powder mix with the partially frozen food and then refreeze it. Once it is frozen it is ready to feed to your fish. Another way to prepare your medication is to use dried pellets food, crush them using a mortar and pestle until the pellets are in the form of fine powder. Then take your Metronidazole tablets and crush them into powder. To bind them back together you can use gelatin which can be purchased from most food stores. You will have to mix the gelatin and tablet powder together until you have the consistency of firm paste. Roll the pellets into balls that resemble the food size that you feed your fish. Don't make them too big or the fish might struggle to eat them. It should only take half an hour for the pellets to set, after this they are ready to feed to your fish. So you should feed your fish for a minimum of one week on this food type, do not feed your fish any other type of food during this period of medication.

If you are in the UK then there is a product called Octozin. This medication comes in tablet form and you treat your tank over a number of days, these tablets are not meant to be ingested so don't prepare them the same way as Metronidazole. I can't really give you any kind of guarantee that this medication will work, but it's always worth trying.

A HEALTHY DIET

One theory put forward is that a poor diet lacking in vitamins contributes to the development of hole in the head disease. An unhealthy diet weakens the fishes immune system which can then allow the Hexamita parasites to become more troublesome. Feeding your Oscar on a healthy diet is very important if you want to keep it healthy. A good quality pellet feed will contain all the vitamins your Oscar needs so this should be the staple part of its diet. A lot of people give their Oscar fish live foods such as goldfish, aka feeders, these are unsafe and should not be part of your Oscars diet. Feeders are often bred in large numbers and are not taken care of, they often develop disease which can be passed onto your Oscar. Feeding your Oscar greens as part of its diet is recommended. Try peas, pieces of courgette, even carrots if your Oscar well accept them. If your Oscar won't eat vegetables then the easiest way to introduce vitamins into their diet is to feed them foods such as earthworms, snails, shrimps, prawns, mealworms, cockles and mussels. All of these are readily available from the fish store, supermarket, fishmongers, pet shop, or you can even harvest some of these foods from your garden.

VITAMINS

Most good quality fish foods contain all of the vitamins that your fish require. However, it wouldn't hurt to give them a few extra vitamins whilst you are treating them. With some vitamins you can add a few drops to the aquarium water every day, or if you want to make sure that the fish are getting the vitamins, try soaking the food in some liquid vitamin. You can soak various foods such as blood worm, meal worms, pellets and probably even worms. How much difference extra vitamins will make is something I cannot answer, but it is certainly not going to do your fish any harm.

Unfortunately, due to the fact that many people do not keep Oscars in the correct environment, hole in the head disease is all too common and we often get people seeking help on the forums. Oscar Fish can get quite big, they produce lots of waste and create large amounts of ammonia. If you do not provide them with the correct living conditions, i.e. a large aquarium, a healthy diet and plenty of filtration, it is inevitable that you will be putting your fish at great risk from developing not only hole in the head disease, but many other disease and illnesses as well.

SENSORY PITS, DON'T PANIC



I think it's worth mentioning an Oscars "sensory pits". Lots of people suddenly notice tiny little pinprick holes when they are observing their Oscar close up, or when they are looking at a photograph that has been taken using the flash. They then start panicking because they think their Oscar is developing hole in the head disease. Worry not, these are sensory pits and are totally normal, they should not be confused with hole in the head disease. The excellent photograph above provided by Rafel, one of our members clearly shows lots of pinprick holes arranged in circles, these are the sensory pits.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Now I remember that I treated with good old metro.


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Carbon is also good for removing smell from water and color (yellow tinge) also. I agree it doesn't need to be run all the time but I do run it in my Hang on filter every now and than for a day or 2. I use the spots where I would put carbon it in my filter for Bio media. Ive heard good things about purigen but I don't use it.


If youre getting a smell and/or yellow/brown color from your water, it is the result of poor water quality. Amp up the maintenance and the issue will resolve itself. The only real reason to use carbon, that cant be resolved with maintenance, is to remove medication.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Master wilkins said:


> If youre getting a smell and/or yellow/brown color from your water, it is the result of poor water quality. Amp up the maintenance and the issue will resolve itself. The only real reason to use carbon, that cant be resolved with maintenance, is to remove medication.


I was just stating what carbon is good for besides removing medication. People fail to mention the other 2 reasons and I think that's important for people to know. If you have wood in your tank carbon can give you benefits as it removes the yellow tinge. Yes changing your water weekly can prevent smell and yellowish water but not everyone does water changes weekly. I work on my moms tank once a month and I use carbon in my power filter for the few hours Im there. It helps me out a lot. IMO and IME its beneficial to run carbon every now and than for the reasons Ive already said. Im not saying run it all the time. I don't do that myself. Its a tool. It might not work for you but it might work for others so I don't think it should be written off not to use. Once again what works for one, might not work for another. 

Most importantly. Go buy the test kits. Figure out what your water chemistry truly is. That's whats important. Numbers don't lie. Everyone on here is intitled to their own opinion. Im just stating the things that Ive read and experienced.

Cheers and happy fish keeping

Justin


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

Fair enough, I completely agree with you.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Wood or some leaves and such can also cause the water to turn yellow or brown and carbon can be used to remove the color. Carbon can also be used to adsorb heavy metal and toxins and other chemicals that might be present in your water. I personally prefer to run some chemical filtration once in a wile and on a newly set up tank.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Master wilkins said:


> Fair enough, I completely agree with you.


Sorry for the rant. I just want newbies to know all the things carbon can be used for. Than they can learn and make their own choices on using carbon 

Lots of people dont know carbon removes medication. They treat their tank with meds and leave the carbon in the filter. Than their fish die and they wonder why. After they read this thread they will know all the uses of carbon. Medication removal is definitly one


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

*UPDATE*

OK..so, after removing carbon and replacing with Purigen & small bag of crushed coral, readings are:

NITRATE - 0-5
gH - 3-6


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

What about PH and KH?

Most test kits are based on the number of drops you use. How are you getting Nitrate 0-5 and Gh 3-6?


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

jbyoung00008 said:


> What about PH and KH?
> 
> Most test kits are based on the number of drops you use. How are you getting Nitrate 0-5 and Gh 3-6?


Like you said, my results are based on drops used....ph around 6.4ish...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

The GH is a bit confusing. The number of drops should give you a number and not a range. So 3 drops should be 3 degrees of GH etc, depending on the kit. Other than that, your parameters look good.


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## adanac50 (Apr 26, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> The GH is a bit confusing. The number of drops should give you a number and not a range. So 3 drops should be 3 degrees of GH etc, depending on the kit. Other than that, your parameters look good.


Bought the kit yesterday, from API, you are correct, it is a "drop based" kit. It is pretty subjective, it's when the
color turns green, that is what the hardness is...that's why I put a range down. When did it really turn green?
At drop 4? 5?...everyone might have a different opinion. Not crazy about the kit to say the least.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

It's more than 4 which is pretty good. I don't like those kits very much either, hence the reason I have a TDS pen, but realistically the absolutely number isn't a big deal as long as it's not zero (which is about what it is out of the tap in Burnaby) or 15, unless you're keeping Africans. I think you're in pretty good shape now. Let's see how the HITH goes as you keep up with the water changes. I'd do a nitrate test before every water change and see what it's getting to.


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