# Sticky  Public Enemy #1: Black Brush Algae and how to fight it



## neven

Its a common issue that many of us have fought several times before, and quite a few conquer it for good. its black, green or red fluffy tufts appear on driftwood, decor, on slow growing plants and sometimes even the substrate itself.

The biggest cause is an imbalance between Light, nutrients and carbon (co2 or substitute). Also it tends to favour harder water, as it makes the algae tougher to eat for several species.

*fix the problem*

1) Do you have too much light? This is what drives plant and algae growth. When there is not enough nutrients or co2 for your lighting, algae grows. You would be suprised at how often stock lighting options on newer tanks overkill the lighting on a planted tank. Do not use Watts per Gallon, i cringe when i hear that term because it is innacurate when you compare t12, t8, t5, t2, LED, Halides, etc to one another. PAR is the measurement of light we need. Here is more info: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/equipment-talk-section-14/par-real-way-measure-light-4471/
I cannot stress enough that this is the biggest factor. If its a hood and you figure out you are getting too much light, hopefully you can use 1 less bulb, if not, then you are stuck reducing how long your lights are on. 12 hours on is often too much, 8-10 hours seems the average. CO2 does not = a need for higher PAR, it allows for you to go higher, but also enables you to get decent growth at lower lighting levels (which means less trimming)

2) Increase or stabilize your co2, thats the biggest thing, if its diy, use two containers and swap em every other week, or use the jello method. If you dose metricide or excel for 'co2' then i would recommend upping the doses to 3x a week. Both light and CO2 utilize nitrates to drive plant growth, if theres an abundance of co2, the plant will spend less nitrogen to get co2, and more to absorb the surrounding light. This will out compete algae. This link goes over co2 and its substitute: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/plants-algae-ferts-ei-co2-lighting-13/basic-guide-carbon-dioxide-81/

3) If you notice the Algae in only a certain spot, check for plant debris or watch the plant leaves to see if there is even flow there. if there isn't flow in an area, then there isn't as many nutrients and available carbon there for plants to utilize, so algae grows. Sometimes a power head or redirecting the outflow will help ease these issues. Remember that a higher current in your tank will often better a planted tank than keeping the surface completely still to maximize co2 concentration (the gain isn't really that much).

4) Test water parameters at the end of the week before the change and adjust EI regiment as needed. This will help, http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/plan...-lighting-13/calculators-planted-tanks-23940/
if you do not know what EI is, then go here: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/plants-algae-ferts-ei-co2-lighting-13/intro-ei-estimated-index-82/

5) Stock an algae fighting crew, SAE's normally will eat BBA, unless your water hardness is incredibly high. There are other fish, many closely related to the SAE, but some have luck with Mollies, american flag fish, and amano shrimp. Almost always if you overfeed your tank, they wont touch much of the BBA.

6) trim away affected areas on plants, remove as much as possible. If you try plucking little bits off it may float somewhere else.​
*Treating*, this is the most argued upon section, there's several ways to do this. KEEP IN MIND DO ALL OF THE ABOVE FIRST OR YOUR PROBLEM WILL NEVER GO AWAY. Using these methods is to remove the algae AFTER you tackled all of the possible causes.

1) Excel Dosing
-Tank outbreak, 1.5ml per gallon every second day, over a period of 10-14 days. Dose before Lights out, so it doesn't break down from light (some say 2.5 ml, but you risk your shrimpies). Some do 2.5ml first day and 1.5ml from then on.
-Spot treating, 1.5ml per gallon in a container (prevents over dosing the tank), and syringe/baster it on affected areas. I recommend filter being off 30 minutes
-misting, 1.5ml/gallon in the spray bottle, drain out tank to needed level, or remove piece you are spraying, and spray away, finish you water change.
-For Scaleless fish (ie clown loaches) and arros, dose half as much, theres been reports of sensitivity. If you wish to take an extra precaution, water change before turning filter on.

2) Metricide 14 Dosing - Similar to excel, slightly stronger, and cheaper, dose half as much as excel (for those exact, 1.7x stronger than excel). Please leave metricide vs excel arguments elsewhere. Do not use the activator that comes with the jug, dispose of it at a local pharmacy.

3) H202, hydrogen peroxide (standard store bought 3%)
-Spot Treating - 3 Ml per gallon in a container, turn off filter, baster it onto affected areas, wait 30 minutes, 30-50% water change, i recommend spacing this out from several days to a week between treatings. As it is an oxidizer and your plants will go insane around it. Be ready with a stick to scare away shrimp, they can perish if they forage too long in an area being treated.
-tank treatment - recommended only after you have spot treated and destroyed most of the brush. Dose 2 mL per gallon, let sit for 30 minutes, then water change. Continue weekly until brush is gone, it should slowly weaken and destroy the remaining brush while keeping to safe levels of the h202. 4mL/gallon will likely kill fish and invertibrates.

4) Bleach, 1 part bleach:20 parts water, dip decor, plastic plants, etc, anything non porous and not alive. Leave over night, Rinse a lot, then soak it in water + dechlorinator (or let it dry out completely in a breezy, warm area)

with all methods, the algae will turn rusty red, then turn to cloudy white/gray then it will be munched upon by your stock (in most cases)​
*Recommended techniques of spot treament:*

1) Lower tank level as you would a water change
2) Mist affected areas with metricide/excel (DO NOT INHALE!)
3) Spot treat areas under the water line as recommended.

If outbreak is in the foreground cover, grab a clear container, Cut a hole in the botton of it big enough for your baster/syringe tip. Now you got a treatment container. Place it over the affected area, Treat it, weight it down with a flat rock or similar weight. This can even be done with filter still on.​
*Upkeep:*

Keep on top of your EI dosing, dont let your co2 fizzle out and jump on the BBA if it appears again before it becomes an outbreak.

Some go further and dose metricide/excel to the water column daily. Its a form of carbon afterall. from seachem
_"On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 gallons*). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 gallons*) daily or every other day. Dosing may be slowly increased in high-growth aquariums. For smaller dosing please note that each cap thread is approximately 1 mL."_
Halve that for metricide 14. Others overdose daily, do so at your own risk.

Low Tech tanks often have to live with algae, most algaes can be kept down with balance of plant load, light and fish stock, that is the goal of high tech and low, but low tech tanks develop much slower. For brush algae though, little else can be done to limit its growth beyond balancing. Rely on removal of the algae affected parts to prevent its spreading, after all low tech is supposed to be low maintnence. Adding excel in a low tech set up may cause nutrient deficiencies in your plants since growth will increase, so dont mistaken nutrient deficiencies for excel sensitivity.​
*Warnings:*

-Excel/metricide/h202: Melts Vals and other plants, Depending on dosage, hardness of water, and the plant itself, results will vary and some have successfully grown vals with either of the three.
-h2o2: Warning to higher PH tanks, ie cichlid, It poses a greater danger to live stock at higher PH. Lower dose if you must use h2o2, otherwise go for excel/metricide.
-h2o2: Some dose without a water change, consecutive days (or every other day) of spot treatment have shown to cause nitrate/nitrite spikes meaning bio media is being killed off. If you choose this method, keep in mind results were not much different than with a water change. But if you insist, reduce the dosage.
-h2o2: Consumer grade is most common at 3%. 6% can still be found though, make sure you read your bottle. Don't bother with commercial/industrial grade, not worth it to dilute, its dirt cheap to buy in any store as it is.
-THESE ARE CHEMICALS/TOXINs... Remember that, dont be stupid. eye protection, gloves and a well ventilated room are recommended. Treat them as you would your most powerful household cleaners, Just because they may not have an overpowering smell or instant melt skin effect doesn't mean they cant harm you. I've worked in chemical plants and refineries, i've seen what long term exposure does to people.​
*Closing Thoughts:*

As with most of our Aquarium Hobby topics, Most of what we know is word of mouth, others experiences and general consesus of "how things are done." I am no expert, im not tom barr, what i am though is a forum addict, i've read many places and many sites on google, i own several Books on Planted tanks, and i've experimented at my fishies expense aswell, that is why im sharing this. There are several opinions on every matter, some completely wrong, many completely valid, so dont be suprised to hear different on how things are done.

Remember one key point: Different Results for different people, and different people are willing to put more at risk than others. I listed dosages as safe for fish, not most effective. If you play with the numbers, by all means go for it, know that you risk fish and your plants the greater you increase.

as for moderators, feel free to ammend this, correct, if you feel its wrong or i disappear. I'll do my best to keep the topic current.​
Lastly, If you have any issues, especially trying to figure out about your lighting, feel free to reply in this thread. Just remember we need information
1. Tank length
2. Substrate to bottom of bulb distance (if cfl, is it vertical or horizontal)
3. Fixture type (t8, t5, LED, PC, CFL), even link to actual fixture or aquarium kit.
4. How long are your Lights on for?
5. CO2 information. None, diy, injected, or substitute
6. What ferts do you dose and what schedule


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## thefishwife

This is great, thanks for posting!


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## Guest

where were you last week !?!?! just kidding, this is super helpful and i am going to print it out and if the bbs comes back i will have these instructions ready ... really appreciate it


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## neoh

I had nasty bba that would attach itself to my driftwood, had it for months. The way I got rid of it was adding a powerhead to the tank. Not only am I seeing better growth from my plants, but the BBA is gone.


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## neven

yea the powerheads really help, for a small tank the dirt cheapest POS will give enough current so that the nutrients and co2 disperse nicely without having your fish struggle to stay put


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## alym

You can also check out our blog, I've been documenting the spray method with metricide with awesome success! ;-)


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## neven

Little update, i must stress the clean up crew part (#5). 

after getting my tank into EI dosing regularly, stabilizing Co2, adjusting the photo period, gettin my current somewhat decent, i've spot dosed with h202. It killed the area's right out for the most part, fizzed like hell.

My plants survived, the brush looks gray, and dead where i treated, but i failed on aspect. Not a large enough clean up crew to eat the leftovers. almost 2 weeks later, i still have dead algae on my drift wood, even with reduced feedings. So a small shrimp crew doesn't suffice.

also to note, 2 shrimp wouldn't leave where i was treating, they just wouldn't give ground despite being pestered with tweezers, the h202 killed them within the day, all others survived though (the smallest ones and the oldest ones lived fine). So with this said, i'd recommend to definately spray where you can, then spot treat where you must


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## taureandragon76

Gonna sticky this one.


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## neven

Updated. H202 section embelished, added section for spot treatment


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## Mferko

for the bleaching trick, it works great, and its the reason i dont employ any algae eaters, I have a cooler of bleach-water on my balcony i reuse over and over, but you dont need to rinse it with water full of dechlorinator thats just a waste of money on dechlorinator, instead rinse it with normal tapwater then let it sit outside until it is 100% BONE DRY (sometimes i use a hairdryer to make sure or speed things up)
chlorine is a gas at room temp, all of it will be driven off, give it a good sniff to make sure its dry enuff inside.
i do this once a month it keeps all the lace rock almost bone white, it also has the bonus of resetting the tank environment/territories and help with aggression.


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## neven

Yea the bleach does work wonders on decor, its by far the most effective and cheapest way to remove algae. I added your note about air drying to the bleach section

however as this is a planted tank section, some sort of clean up crew is a must for a balanced tank, you want live stock to sift the substrate of the tank, disturb plant leaves, and eat whatever algae they can find. Different species prefer different things, but most will eat dead bba that was killed from our treatments


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## Mferko

aye, since my tank is african cichlids plants are not an option 
i think i might pickup that upside down cat tho it looks sweet


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## lotus

Mferko said:


> for the bleaching trick, it works great, and its the reason i dont employ any algae eaters, I have a cooler of bleach-water on my balcony i reuse over and over, but you dont need to rinse it with water full of dechlorinator thats just a waste of money on dechlorinator, instead rinse it with normal tapwater then let it sit outside until it is 100% BONE DRY (sometimes i use a hairdryer to make sure or speed things up)
> chlorine is a gas at room temp, all of it will be driven off, give it a good sniff to make sure its dry enuff inside.
> i do this once a month it keeps all the lace rock almost bone white, it also has the bonus of resetting the tank environment/territories and help with aggression.


I use bleach too on the driftwood and rocks...I rinse it and back into the tank it goes. I don't let it air dry so is that a bad thing?


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## neven

lotus said:


> I use bleach too on the driftwood and rocks...I rinse it and back into the tank it goes. I don't let it air dry so is that a bad thing?


I'd say it depends on the volume of the tank, with rocks, it probably is fine unless its porous, but for driftwood, it can absorb some of the bleach solution and secrete it back into your tanks water column. That's why most recommend a soaking in water several times.


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## anessa

If I get it on driftwood, I just take out the driftwood, dab Rubbing Alcohol on it until it turns red and then put it back in and let the plecos eat it. BN plecos LOVE the dead (red/purple) BBA.


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## neven

tried a slightly higher dosage of H2O2.... bad idea... 1 more dead shrimp and 2 cardinals, so i definately don't recommend going past the dosage i said. Guess i have room for another algae eater now.. :/


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## effox

Great info.


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## neven

ammended h2o2 Section once more, added tank treatment, added additional h2o2 warning.


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## imtrippedup

metricide dosing safe for clown loaches?


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## katienaha

I have another technique that worked wonders for me but takes a bit of planning.... 

Blowtorch. 

Made sure there were no shrimp or snails stuck in my wood (where the majority of the problem was) took it outside and started blasting it with fire. Then I corrected my fertilization regime, and it is now essentially gone. I'll spot it on a slow growing leaf or on a pebble once in a while, and I simply remove the offending object.


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## imtrippedup

i tried the metricide dose on my 210 aro tank
2nd day in.. the next morning all my fish were breathing hard

i stopped then and there


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## Treasure chest

*Be warned if you have Clown Loach*

Be warned if you have scaleless fishes like clown loach. I was dosing 1ml/G excel only on the second day and both of my CL became very sick. I also see white peeling from the skin. I have stopped dosing. I tried this method once before with the same result and now I am sure it is the Excel treatment that causes this. BTW, double or triple the dosage to what Seachem's recommendation has no ill effect on CL, however 1ml/G may be too much for them.


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## 2wheelsx2

1 mL/Gallon is 10x the dosage. There's no reason to dose that much. The main ingredient is a disinfectant. Stick to the recommended dosage. Dosing more will not grow your plants faster, but will likely kill your livestock.

Read the MSDS here: http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/FlourishExcel.doc.pdf

Here's one of the key points:

*Health Hazards (Acute): Inhalation-Irritation to respiratory tract; Skin-Itching, pain; Eyes-Conjunctivitis;
Ingestion-Moderately toxic*

This


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## Treasure chest

I was following the method mentioned in the first post to rid of BBA. I am not trying to grow plants with Excel since I have pressurized CO2. I also have successfully rid of BBA in my shrimp tank using 1.5m/G Excel method without any ill effect. The dosage also has no effect on any other fishes I have. It only made Clown loach very sick.


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## neven

2wheelsx2 said:


> 1 mL/Gallon is 10x the dosage. There's no reason to dose that much. The main ingredient is a disinfectant. Stick to the recommended dosage. Dosing more will not grow your plants faster, but will likely kill your livestock.
> ...


This isn't something i pulled out of the air, i've researched into it and i experimented prior to writing this guide. Telling people to go back to recommended dosages will get them no where when they have a full blown outbreak. The dosage is to use excel/metricide as an algaecide, not a plant growth accelerant as its normally used for. Just like with treating illness in fish, there is risk, and sometimes loss unfortunately.

The fact that glutes are toxic has been beaten to death already, i warn people in this guide about it too, but every time they are mentioned someone has to pipe up with linking the risks again, or referencing studies that have no context to this use of them (and often for greater concentrations).

as for the clown loaches and arros, i'll make note that they are more sensitive and to try spot treating at somewhere around around half the dosage since i've kept clowns with that dose in for my regular daily dose.


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## 2wheelsx2

Look, if they have a full blown outbreak, Excel is not a solution, it's a band aid. And using Excel in a tank with no plants is just plain wrong.

And you and a million people, including myself have experimented with it. I've been using it for 6 years ini 4 different planted tanks, but never at 10x dosage. Tom Barr doesn't recommend it, most people on planted forums don't recommend it. 

Glut is toxic has not been beaten to death, based on post #22 and many similar experiences from other forums. If it had been beaten to death, people wouldn't be killing their livestock.

You have some anecdoctal experience, fine. As I said, so have a million others. But Tom Barr worked in a lab with Seachem on it. Don't take my word for it, since you've researched it. Go on Barrreport and ask the man himself. He talked about the use of Excel at the talk at VanAqua, which I attended.

If you want to do this, I have no problem with it, but recommending it as panacea is wrong, and for people to try it until their fish are in distress is ANIMAL TESTING, which I do not condone, unless it has specific purpose, baselines are taken, and results categorized. Doing some adhoc observations doesn't make one a scientist.

That's the last I'll say on the subject, because now this post is here for all to see. If they still want to try it, then they have 2 viewpoints on it.

IMO, if tank is overrum with BBA, it's simpler to take the fish out, bleach everthing (and cheaper too) and then rinse and add dechlorinator. I just did this with a neglected 100+ leaf Anubias that I had to transfer to my discus tank. I'm not about to do a 10x overdose all my $600 worth of discus based on your anecdotal evidence.

There are many ways to rid BBA: Excel/ H2O2 spot dosing, draining the tank down and using misting with a 5:1 mix with water and Excel (which translates to even less than recommended dosage in a volume of water. Overdosing is hard on the livestock, not to mention cruel. If you want to do that, please don't recommend it to everyone else.


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## lotus

X2 with the bleach as I too take everything out with the BBA including the plants and let it sit in bleach without water. Then I rinse and the BBA gets lighter in a few days and eventually dies.


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## EDGE

X2 2wheelsx2. Better to find the root of the problem than sugar coat the problem with chemicals. bba do disappeared quickly once the caused has been found. 

I know using chemical is a lot easier than solving the problem. Think of all the genetically modified crop we are consuming .


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## katienaha

But what IS the cause of bba???I'm fighting it now....


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## neven

I have never stated that treatment is the only thing that should be done, in fact


> First thing, fix the problem, these are key areas that help.
> 1) Increase or stabilize your co2, thats the biggest thing, if its diy, use two containers and swap em every other week, or use the jello method
> 2) Increase water circulation through tank, powerheads help. If there's debris gathering, its likely a dead zone. Do not oppose the general flow of the tank though, it will create more dead zones
> 3) Reduce photo period, adjust lighting height/wattage
> 4) Test water parameters at the end of the week before the change and adjust EI regiment as needed
> 5) Stock an algae fighting crew, SAE's normally will eat BBA, unless your water hardness is incredibly high.
> 6) trim away affected areas on plants, remove as much as possible


that's what i start out with in this sticky. That's also what seems to be ignored lately. People need to do this first. i dont do bandaid fixes myself.

once again the treatments are for algae treatment, if the algae is coming back, then you really need to work on balancing your tank. In all my tanks i've had one massive outbreak that took months to get rid of. The bleach method was not an option as i had mosses and ferns attatched to the pieces of wood overrun with brush. The outbreak was caused by me going on vacation and my mother ignoring feeding instructions. Got home and the mess caused me to give up on the tank for over 6 months. The result was the BBA being set in. Got it to the point where it wouldn't spread, but wouldn't go away either. The area affected was 3 large pieces of driftwood, the back tank wall, area's of the substrate, and the moss.

During this i had CO2 runnin the drop checker into the yellow, i had to run airstones at nights off just to keep the fish from being stresses, i added circulation pumps to ensure ferts were there, and i cut down the lighting aswell. I did the list myself, and i did see a difference, but it still was too much of an outbreak. Once dealt with, the regular daily dose of metricide + everything being balanced was enough to stop BBA in its tracks. The rare time i see a little tuft of BBA and i just do my daily dose at that point for a few days and its gone.

Like i said earlier, these treatments are not meant for normal dosage use. I simply don't see this as morally wrong, the guide is to take a lot of the guess work out to prevent livestock deaths. It informs of the risks and lets the people make their own decisions from there.

As to whats moral and whats not for fish keeping, that is a very opinionated arguement that goes well beyond the metricide debate. It just becomes a mud slinging fight that never has a winner.


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## neven

katienaha said:


> But what IS the cause of bba???I'm fighting it now....


if the bba is only in the upper reaches of the tank, chances are your lighting is too close the the water surface, causing a much higher intensity of PAR vs the areas in the bottom of the tank.


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## katienaha

Nope its mostly mid to lower levels


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## neven

what sort of lighting, how high off the substrate is it, tank height and length?
also is it planted? if so do you use co2 (or excel/metricide). if so do you fertilize (and how much if you do)

hows the circulation, is it on decor/driftwood that is in full lighting?

Theres a ton of things that cause BBA, which is why its such a pain to fix


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## jassz

Is there a way to remove black algae from live plants? (Or green algae for that matter). It seems most of this discussion involves the decorations. Do I not have enough CO2 that I get it in the first place?


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## neven

snip and remove what you can. you can also turn off the filter, and do a dose around the plants. if its a carpet plant, simply cut the neck off a pop bottle, and use it to spot treat that area without as much disappation


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## neven

dosing schedule changed to every second day for dosing to lower the stress on invertebrates that some felt. Remember that when you use metricide, divide excels dosage by 2 (or 1.7) DO NOT MULTIPLY IT.


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## Treasure chest

Good stuff. Thanks for the update.


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## christhefish

i noticed my featherfin synodontis has been eating my bba 
so maybe a possible algae eater for some?


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## Tazzy_toon

hmmm, I have some of this stuff growing on a driftwood branch that is right under the light and flow of the filter. My bnp tried to eat it, but it was too tough. I don't use fertz or co2 at all. It's all very low tech and I want to keep it that way.

How can I correct this problem and not just treat it?


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## CRS Fan

Tazzy_toon said:


> hmmm, I have some of this stuff growing on a driftwood branch that is right under the light and flow of the filter. My bnp tried to eat it, but it was too tough. I don't use fertz or co2 at all. It's all very low tech and I want to keep it that way.
> 
> How can I correct this problem and not just treat it?


Crossocheilus reticulatus (aka BBA monsters/Silver Flying Fox) love BBA and several other types of algaes (including hair and Cladophora types).

Best regards,

Stuart


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## Tazzy_toon

I'm not sure if that would work for my set up. It's only a 33 gallon with bnp and kulhi loaches dwelling in the bottom area.



CRS Fan said:


> Crossocheilus reticulatus (aka BBA monsters/Silver Flying Fox) love BBA and several other types of algaes (including hair and Cladophora types).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart


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## springboard

Now I think many of you are going to really think this solution is ridiculous but I've done it and it really does work. Of course I would first refer to Neven's original posting and try to solve the root cause by adjusting CO2, lighting, nutrients, etc. 

My solution is to boil it in a pot of water over a stove. The BBA turns a light green and then it's easy to brush off, and it's dead. I used this technique on rocks, plastic ordaments and tubing. Of course you need to discern for yourself what can be boiled without melting. My thinking is that BBA is ultimately a plant, and boiling it kills it in the most natural way. No chemicals required. And it's way faster!

I helped a friend whose tank had so much BBA the strands on the rocks were long enough to make their way partially up the filter's intake tube. I removed all his rocks, boiled them and presto, all BBA eliminated from the rocks.


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## gklaw

Interesting idea Isaac. Wait till you are married and have your wife catch you boiling your fish stuff in the kitchen especially with her cooking pot  Some of us take great pain in aqua-scaping their tank and desired plants are also attached. There are also beneficial stuff on the wood that I won't want to kill undiscriminantly  

Otherwise, I would just bleach everything in a bucket outdoor and not risking "auntie Mabel" bleaching all my tanks  Essentially that's what I do with all inert used decorations from other people's systems.


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## mcrocker

It's been mentioned in this thread before, but I'll say it again since it really seemed to impact my BBA... Water flow! I had a cluster of BBA forming and I put that wood/plant directly under my filter outflow and the BBA cleared up within a few weeks. It really doesn't seem to like fast-flowing water. This might not be suitable for every tank setup or species, but adding a power head or changing your scape could potentially help you.


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## Tazzy_toon

My driftwood IS under my filters outflow. I don't actually mind the look of it right now, it flows with the water and looks quite natural, however I know if I don't "do" something, it will get out of control.



mcrocker said:


> It's been mentioned in this thread before, but I'll say it again since it really seemed to impact my BBA... Water flow! I had a cluster of BBA forming and I put that wood/plant directly under my filter outflow and the BBA cleared up within a few weeks. It really doesn't seem to like fast-flowing water. This might not be suitable for every tank setup or species, but adding a power head or changing your scape could potentially help you.


It must be my lighting. I'll have to do some more research on the subject, not really wanting to pull out the driftwood, it's branchy and intertwined with another branch and has moss and another plant attached. Perhaps one day I'll try some flourish in the tank.


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## neven

fix the problem has been amended to better explain which items hold more importance to the development of BBA. I noticed it was the same issue coming up over and over again in help threads so i felt and update was needed.

I have stressed further the importance of light balance, more so, the limitation of light in a planted aquarium when it comes to ensuring healthy growth without algae. I also felt the need to mention that CO2 does not mean you need to get a 4 bulb t5 fixture sitting on top of your tank, It just allows you to maximize your growth by utilizing nutrients and light to the fullest potential


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## CRS Fan

Now if I could eliminate my GSA..... I would be happy. How is the BBA Monster working out, Rob?

Enquiring minds would like to know !

Best Regards,

Stuart


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## neven

Great! It fit into the hierarchy of my tank quite well. It shares King of the Tank with the BN pleco.

Despite being a BBA eater, the fish actually occupied the area where the bba still grew and kicks any fish that ventures near it out. it worked out as a great dither fish and all my loaches now occupy the foreground.


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## neven

GSA requires more light limitation, shorter photo period and higher phosphorous levels. Part of the reason PMDD doesn't work as well as EI is that it relies on phosphate limitation to control growth rate, opening the door to GSA invasions at lower light thresholds  With your feeding i doubt its the phosphates anyways


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## kookoobird88

hey im new here , and i seem the have this problem, the algae has started to appear everywhere ie: decor drift wood, and most plants

1. Tank length--48" 55g
2. Substrate to bottom of bulb distance (if cfl, is it vertical or horizontal) about 24-26"
3. Fixture type-- 2x t5HO
4. How long are your Lights on for? 9hrs
5. CO2 information. None, diy, injected, or substitute-- small redsea c02 bottle, 
6. What ferts do you dose and what schedule---fluval stratum, seachem excel (full cap everyday) & comprehensive plant supplemtent(full cap twice a week)

some plants are going brown after adding this c02 (only had it for about 1.5 weeks, no algae before)
fish-2 golden ram, 2 bolivian rams, 2 german rams, 15 tetras, 15 rasboras, glass cat, golden algae eater, 1 dwarf guarmi, 1 baloon molly

please help!


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## neven

a few suggestions

1. Your co2 causes higher uptake of ferts, so you now will likely need to dose your water column with nitrates, KNO3, possibly the other macros as well. if you have plants not planted they will start to stunt and possibly die back (go brown), the plants in the substrate will also start absorbing the nutrients out of the stratum at a much faster rate, dosing the water column helps extend the life of the substrate. Our EI sticky explains more of this.

2. Cut back the lighting for an hour and see how it goes. Your light height is in a perfect range for a co2 injected tank 

3. A common problem with bba infested tanks is the co2 is rather inconsistent, or just not enough. Two ways of solving this is adjusting the co2 time period, i start mine one hour before, and it turns off an hour before the lights go out. Most plants absorb co2 at a high volume for the first 4-6 hours of the photo period. Now for the level of co2 you have, in our region, kh to ph relationship is fine for figuring out the answer. Measure your KH, and your PH (Ph right before co2 turns off for the night), plug it in here: Aquarium CO2 Calculator
you should be 30-35 ppm if you have a medium to high plant load.
Some people use drop checkers, but the response time sucks.
the only way to increase co2, is by adding more co2 to the water or improving how it is dissolved, raising kh higher will do nothing for the co2 level. So knowing your diffusion method would come in handy.

4. How is the flow in the algae infested areas, if its slower than elsewhere, it can have insufficient co2 vs demand, aswell as nutrients, so algae takes advantage.

the joys of co2 will be felt once you balance things out and have a better understanding of how plants use it


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## kookoobird88

thanks for the tips

pretty much all plants now have it growing except for this one type of plant i have which i have three of(cant remeber what its called) 
there is more algae where the c02 comes out, and more near the top of the water where i have some javas attached to decor, the strands of algae on the java are over and inch in length. what should i do with the plants that have it? do i need to trim them? I went to a fish store and a guy gave me some meds that should get rid of the algae and he suggested turning off the c02. i dont no what to do! this stuff litterally showed up in like 2-3 days out of know where!

i dont have a kh test kit but my ph is 6.5

i cant really control the c02 since it only spurts out when theres enough built up in the bottle


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## tropicalnorth

Hi all; I was a member before the "server" crash a few years ago, and, just got around to rejoining a little while ago.
We have a "low tech" tank aprox. 112 US Gal that has BBA, and, hair algae problems. We have spot dosed a bit with Excel, but we would like to dose the whole tank with metricide. 
The question is if we remove the fish, and, leave the plants in, what dosage of metricide could we use. We don't have any val. or moss.
We have had some of our fish for a long time including some clown loaches, so we feel that removing them while treating the tank might be best.


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## neven

if you got bba problems and the current dosing isn't working, then you need to adjust your lighting.

If you are enquiring ahead of treatment. I can say that some minor plant melt may occur depending on the species at double the rates i posted, mostly if theres no flow. If you try it, i recommend removing your bio media (ie prefilter) and turning off the main filter. Then throw a power head to keep the current moving. It normally takes a day for metricide to be processed, 2 in low tech lighting. A water change to 50% would be recommended a couple hours after if you can wait that long but then your tank is large and that could be a pain. Just remember that the numbers i posted are already above what people dose daily to their tanks for carbon supplementation, so dont jump to higher dosage right off the bat.

But this is still ignoring the why its happening issue. if its wide spread, then you need to work on your tank balance before nuking with metricide. Once thats done, its not a one time dose that kills it, its several moderate doses weakening BBA it to the state that plants can once again out compete it for nutrients.


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## tropicalnorth

Thanks for your reply; we have been working on this problem for awhile, the main issue is green hair algae. We are making progress at reducing the algae by using the helpful advice provided in this thread, however, much of the hair algae is in the gravel. Spot treating the plants does kill most of the algae that is on the plant. 
We have not had an outbreak like this one in one of our aquariums previously. This probably led to us being complacent while the problem became worse.
Water changes are not a problem, we can syphon out a window into the back yard, and, we refill using a hose from the kitchen sink (normally there is no chlorine in our water).
Thanks again, we'll post on how things go.


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## neven

If theres issue with the gravel, try taking a sammich tupperware container drill out the bottom enough to easily push an airline through. Place it over the affected gravel area and weight it down with pebbles or something. Then dose into the hole of the tupperware. this way of spot treating is a hell of a lot more effective


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## tropicalnorth

Hi all; We added 4 doses of 1 cup (454 ml) metricide to our tank (every other day). The BBA showed signs of turning pink within 24 hours of the first dose, however; the green hair algae was more stubborn. After 7 days almost all of the hair algae was dead, but there were still a few patches in the gravel that we removed with a net, and, bleached. It seems that the stuff on the very bottom of the tank did not get as much exposure to the Metricide, possibly due to less water circulation there. A tall group of crypto suffered some damage, but the dwarf crypto was fine. Narrow leaf swords, and, pygmy chain swords seem unaffected.
We did a 70% water change, and, let the water age for 5 days before returning the fish to their tank. 
Thanks again for the help.


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## neven

No problem, glad to hear the bba control is working

Sent from my SGH-T589R using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## SweetumsDesigns

Quick Q...got a break out and I'm going to go with the excel dosing, should I turn off my co2 while treating the break out??
Thanks!


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## rwong2k10

I'm going to share some of my experiences with BBA.

My planted aquarium is pretty much algae free except for some green dust algae on the glass due to the high light I use.

I had BBA when I was on vacation to HK for a month and my co2 ran out. BBA grew mainly on the intakes of my equipment.

So what I did was over dosed with excel and the BBA turned, red/white and after wards added some red ramshorn snails to my aquarium and voila, it was all gone.

Back to my balanced tank again


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## gold-y

*Garra Rufa*

Garra Rufa fish eat very happily BBA.
It might take him a few day to get use to, but when it does - great job...


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## Kaoss

I'm starting to get small tufts of BBA at the very top of my driftwood (closest to the lights), hair algae (leaves of my crypts and swords), and staghorn algae (particularly around the base of my crypts). It's driving me nuts as it's been getting more severe for the past month or so! I dose with Excel quite often, and it doesn't seem to be helping at all. It's strange, because I'm running a non-C02 low-light setup with Flourish, Flourish Excel and Equilibrium, the algae just keeps coming back, along with a thick layer of soft brown dust (diatoms?) covering my substrate every week before a water change.


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## Tazzy_toon

@Kaoss, Here is a quote from first post.




> Lastly, If you have any issues, especially trying to figure out about your lighting, feel free to reply in this thread. Just remember we need information





> 1. Tank length
> 2. Substrate to bottom of bulb distance (if cfl, is it vertical or horizontal)
> 3. Fixture type (t8, t5, LED, PC, CFL), even link to actual fixture or aquarium kit.
> 4. How long are your Lights on for?
> 5. CO2 information. None, diy, injected, or substitute
> 6. What ferts do you dose and what schedule




So if you could post some of those, someone might be better able to answer your questions, I myself am always having algae issues in my tanks that are very low tech, so can't be much help. Good luck and i'll be watching for peoples replies


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## Longimanus

Okay I too am having a big breakout of BBA. I am looking to get a fish that will eat it, but I would like ot figure out the cause as well.

1. Tank length - 48" (55 gallon)
2. Substrate to bottom of bulb distance (if cfl, is it vertical or horizontal) - I have to measure that one, but probably 20"
3. Fixture type (t8, t5, LED, PC, CFL), even link to actual fixture or aquarium kit. I have two different fixtures, one is a standard crappy tube light (24") on one side, it is not very bright, the other is a Beamsworks 24" LED light, I think it's this one LED Aquarium Lighting Freshwater Bright
4. How long are your Lights on for? I think this may be my problem, they are likely on way too long, 8-12 hours. I also see more BBA in the area hit by the brighter LED, but there is still some under the darker light. 
5. CO2 information. None, diy, injected, or substitute - I don't use anything. 
6. What ferts do you dose and what schedule - None. I have Flourite and Eco Complete substrate so I don't use any ferts. 

I am not sure what my best course of action is to rid myself of this stuff. My water flow is terrible right now due to loss of my canister filter, but I will be putting in a brand new XP3 in the next few days, so that might help. My fish stock is Angelfish, ID shark, Black Ghost knife, Emperor Tetra, Black Skirt tetra, Platy, Bristlenose plecos, L200 Pleco, bronze corydoras. Plants I have are Anubias x 3, LOTS of moss, I am not positive which kinds, some green plants and some red ones lol! Darned if I know their names. I will post some pictures later.

So do I need to pull my plants and bleach all my wood and filter intakes? Or will decreasing the light be enough? Should I get the algae eating fish?


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## Ra's al Ghul

I would just add a clean up crew

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## Longimanus

What kind of clean up crew? Like I said, I already have five bristlenose plecos, one L200 pleco and I think seven catfish. 
Are you thinking of a flying fox or something like that?


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## Ra's al Ghul

Get some silver flying fox, Chinese algae eaters are good when there small

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## Kaoss

Very small tufts of BBA growing at the highest point of my driftwood closest to the lights, thread or hair algae (can't tell) flying all around the tank occasionally catching onto the leaves of my plants, and what appears to be small bits of staghorn algae around the base/roots of all my crypts, as well as weekly diatom outbreaks, resulting in a somewhat thick layer of brown fluffy dust on my substrate before every water change every week.

1. Tank length - 20 inches(10 gallon)
2. Substrate to bottom of bulb distance - around 1.5-2 inches
3. Fixture type - Aqueon 20 inch single fluorescent strip light (7000K)
4. How long are your Lights on for? - 10 hours separated into 5 and 5 with a 4 hour break in between.
5. CO2 information - Excel one cap thread every two days (about 1mL?)
6. What ferts do you dose and what schedule - Flourish once cap per week, Flourish tabs for my swords and crypts. Equilibrium half a teaspoon with each water change (once every approx 1-1.5 weeks)

It might also be worth noting that I had a severe seed shrimp out break in my tank for about 3 weeks prior, where my substrate was quite literally crawling with these miniscule white bugs that simply dart around in and out of my substrate. I know they are harmful, but it might be worth noting.


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## ScottD

My tank is 24 inch * 24 inch cubed tank . 
BBA from top of drift wood all the way down to the substrate . Hair type algae growing on the top Anubis and spotted dark green algae on lower leaves . 
I have 2 24" t5 24 watts both have 10000k terra grow bulbs and it is 22" from the substrate. Light hours are 12hr a day . I put 1 cap of flourish in each week and no Co2 . Sorry guys I am very new to planted tanks as I have always done African tanks . Any help would be much appreciated


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## wslam

ScottD said:


> My tank is 24 inch * 24 inch cubed tank .
> BBA from top of drift wood all the way down to the substrate . Hair type algae growing on the top Anubis and spotted dark green algae on lower leaves .
> I have 2 24" t5 24 watts both have 10000k terra grow bulbs and it 22" from the substrate. Light hours are 12hr a day . I put 1 cap of flourish in each week . Sorry guys I am very new to planted tanks as I have always done African tanks . Any help would be much appreciated


Probably lowering your hours of light will help a lot. I'm not familiar with the T5 lights and tank that size, but usually 8-10 hour max light split into two periods is good for balance. Also check your flow to see if it hits those areas affected. I think BBA is caused from low/fluctuating levels of CO2 or no flow. Hair algae is caused by low nutrients (macros) or high ammonia spike or low Co2 levels.


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## Redshrimp2709

I have a 90G planted aquarium with two 39W T5 Power Glo's at the back, and two of the new model kessels clamped onto either side of the aquarium towards the front. I have a canister filter pushing water out from left to right, and a powerhead on the back right, pushing water to the front and back to the left. I have a CO2 canister and the diffuser is set directly below the power head so that those tiny CO2 bubbles get picked up by the powerhead and dispersed. This provides a sufficient current throughout the tank and I am confident that enough CO2 is circulating the aquarium as the bubbles are pushed around the aquarium and not allowed to rise directly to the surface and evaporate. 

Nonetheless, I have a mild to moderate problem with BBA, especially since I've been practicing turning off the CO2 at night. Some argue that it is not a waster to leave it on as it creates stability and that excess CO2 is quick to escape anyway. I find it hard to justify just leaving it on because nothing takes up CO2 at night and it's an expensive solution for the sake of stability. I therefore have a problem with BBA. I recognize that it is my fault because sometimes I forget to turn it off, and occasionally, I forget to turn it on. There is no timer I can buy as this is a mechanical setup. I can buy a timer that will mechanically shut off the valve, but that costs more than $300! Any ideas?


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## khiyasu

Redshrimp2709 said:


> I have a 90G planted aquarium with two 39W T5 Power Glo's at the back, and two of the new model kessels clamped onto either side of the aquarium towards the front. I have a canister filter pushing water out from left to right, and a powerhead on the back right, pushing water to the front and back to the left. I have a CO2 canister and the diffuser is set directly below the power head so that those tiny CO2 bubbles get picked up by the powerhead and dispersed. This provides a sufficient current throughout the tank and I am confident that enough CO2 is circulating the aquarium as the bubbles are pushed around the aquarium and not allowed to rise directly to the surface and evaporate.
> 
> Nonetheless, I have a mild to moderate problem with BBA, especially since I've been practicing turning off the CO2 at night. Some argue that it is not a waster to leave it on as it creates stability and that excess CO2 is quick to escape anyway. I find it hard to justify just leaving it on because nothing takes up CO2 at night and it's an expensive solution for the sake of stability. I therefore have a problem with BBA. I recognize that it is my fault because sometimes I forget to turn it off, and occasionally, I forget to turn it on. There is no timer I can buy as this is a mechanical setup. I can buy a timer that will mechanically shut off the valve, but that costs more than $300! Any ideas?


My guess is that you are dosing too much ferts? Alternatively a good water change may help reset the water conditions. If you want a timer, you could try something like these options?

ZooMed AquaSun Aquarium Timer

Coralife Power Center Timer (Single)


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## battmanh

Do you have a solenoid for your CO2 regulator? If not then here are your options: (1) Buy a solenoid for your CO2 and put it on a timer that khiyasu suggested; (2) Leave your CO2 on over night. 

You haven't said anything that suggests that you have been dosing too much ferts so I wouldn't be too quick to say that (also we don't know the plant mass in the tank). BBA is a great indicator of issues with your CO2 so I would definitely approach that first. A few months ago I had a small outbreak of BBA on my hardscape and the solution was as simple as increasing my CO2 bubble count. This might work for you too once you've decided on leaving your CO2 on or off at night. I have my CO2 on a timer to turn on 2.5 hours before lights come on and turn off 0.5 hours before lights turn off and I have not had any issue with BBA since increasing my bubble count.

Good luck!


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## tony1928

My tank is fairly new as well, 5-6 weeks and I'm dealing with some BBA as well. I have my CO2 on a timer and it is basically set up as battmanh has indicated. Cranked up the CO2 recently and I think it is also working. The BBA is no longer increasing. For the existing BBA, I did spot treat with peroxide as well. Otos seem to be taking care of the rest. Finding that right mix of nutrients/lights/co2 has been very interesting.


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## Redshrimp2709

Thanks for your suggestions guys. The timer Khiyasu suggested is simply a timer and I have one for all my lights with outlets to spare. I also use Tropica liquid ferts and follow the recommended dosage. If anything I may be slightly under fertilizing and most likely not over fertilizing. I do not know what a solenoid is and I don't suspect I have one. I'll reply directly to battmanh for specifics. Looks like increasing the CO2 dosage helps and I never thought of that. I have a Tropica diffuser going at about 2 bubbles/second. 

Drew


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## Redshrimp2709

Hi Battmanh,

I have a CO2 canister I bought and had setup ready from Aquarium West. All I had to do was secure the regulator and diffuser onto it. I have it running at about or just under 2 bubbles/second, and I try to remember to turn it off when the lights go off. I turn the CO2 back on in the morning at about 7:30AM to 8 AM before I go to work. The lights do not come on until about 7 or 8 hours later at 3:30 PM. The lights turn off at 11:30PM. This allows me time to enjoy the aquarium after dinner and before bed. 

The water in my tank is moderately soft and sitting at an almost constant pH of 6.4 to 6.7 depending on the CO2 levels, but the majority of the time it stays at about 6.4 to 6.6. The diffused micro bubbles rise up to powerhead and is then shot to the front of the tank and circulated around the aquarium. On the opposite side is the output for my canister filter and it pushes water towards the powerhead. I think this give a very even distribution of CO2 throughout. I have 2 39W T5 PowerGlo's and 2 Kessels clamped on either side of the aquarium. 

I don't think I have a solenoid and I'm not sure I know what it is. Where can I get one for a reasonable price?


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## Jousters

J and L Aquatic


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## battmanh

Redshrimp2709 said:


> Hi Battmanh,
> 
> I have a CO2 canister I bought and had setup ready from Aquarium West. All I had to do was secure the regulator and diffuser onto it. I have it running at about or just under 2 bubbles/second, and I try to remember to turn it off when the lights go off. I turn the CO2 back on in the morning at about 7:30AM to 8 AM before I go to work. The lights do not come on until about 7 or 8 hours later at 3:30 PM. The lights turn off at 11:30PM. This allows me time to enjoy the aquarium after dinner and before bed.
> 
> The water in my tank is moderately soft and sitting at an almost constant pH of 6.4 to 6.7 depending on the CO2 levels, but the majority of the time it stays at about 6.4 to 6.6. The diffused micro bubbles rise up to powerhead and is then shot to the front of the tank and circulated around the aquarium. On the opposite side is the output for my canister filter and it pushes water towards the powerhead. I think this give a very even distribution of CO2 throughout. I have 2 39W T5 PowerGlo's and 2 Kessels clamped on either side of the aquarium.
> 
> I don't think I have a solenoid and I'm not sure I know what it is. Where can I get one for a reasonable price?


Hey sorry for the late reply, didn't see your post until now. I hope your BBA issue is getting better.

It seems like your flow is fine so I wouldn't mess with that right now. You have 2 Kessils which is a good amount of light so I am betting the BBA is caused by low CO2. Bubble count is relative to the bubble counter but just to give you a general idea based on my bubble counter - I am running 3-4 bps on my 20 gallon high-tech tank. I suggest increasing your CO2 while also being mindful of your livestock (ex. if you have fish make sure they aren't gasping for air up at the top).

I'm not sure what kind of CO2 canister you're using and whether a solenoid is compatible with it so would you mind posting up or sending me a picture of your CO2 set up so I can have a better idea of what you're working with? If you're using a CO2 tank + regulator, a solenoid is useful for automatically turning on/off the CO2 so you don't have to mess with it manually. Below is a useful resource for understanding the CO2 tank and the components. Scroll down a little to find information about solenoids.

Pressurized CO2...Just thought I'd share. - The Planted Tank Forum

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions (I will likely respond faster than in this thread).

Good luck!

Matt


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## Redshrimp2709

Hi Battmanh. I've uploaded the image. I bought a Tropica Nano CO2 diffuser, but I bought a powerhead to circulate the mircobubbles. It's running at 2 bubbles per second now. In the pic you can see the canister and how it is attached to the diffuser.


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## kheops

Hello,

I started into aquascaping a month ago.

This is my setup:

1. 60H ADA tank (60cm x 45cm x 45cm)
2. Amazonia New substate, Amazonia powder on top, powersand
3. Seryu rocks
3. Satellite freshwater LED+ Satellite Freshwater LED+ Aquarium Lights I Current-USA I Tank Lighting
4. Lights are on 12hours. Aquarium in sunny living room. No direct sun on it though.
5. CO2 injection 2 bps
6. Fertilizer Tropica Premium Fertilizer
7. Eheim filter 2213
8. inline 300 watts heater
9. KH is around 5dkh
10. Temp at 26 Celcius
11. Plants utricularia graminifolia, vesicularia dubiana and a taxiphyllum spiky.
Fertilizer 6ml once a week when change 50%++ water.

Last week I had a total outbreak of algaes. I lost 75% of my tetra cardinals.

My ultricularia that was growing roots and seemed healthy started turning yellow.

I searched a bit on the net and I ended up buying Metricide 28.

I used 7.5 ml with a water change and now 1.5ml a day.

I also reduced lighting hours as well as I changed the lighting settings.

I was also contaminated with a few snails with the taxiphyllum which wasn't a 1-2 grow.

How do I deal with the algae?
How do I dead with the CO2 and Temp and lighting?
How do I deal with the snails ? 

Share you experience. I'll be greatful!

Thanks


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## troutsniffer

Well in my experience, algae is always caused by an imbalance of excess light nutrients or lack of co2 in combination with amount of light. Dosing metricide might work against the algae, but it won't fix the problem. An excess amount of ammonia will cause algae and kill fish, so it's possible your tank still has not cycled properly. By the way you should probably have started your own thread.


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## kheops

Indeed. It's an old thread with lots of replies.

I will create a new one.

Thank you


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## Amitabha

i tried the metricide dose on my 210 aro tank
2nd day in.. the next morning all my fish were breathing hard

i stopped then and there


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