# Opinions of BCA?



## BCAquaria

Hey guys and gals of BCA.

Regardless of how new or how few posts you've made on BCA. Please feel free to leave some feedback in this thread.

I'm basically looking for some opinions from YOU as a member. We're going through some changes in BCA and we're trying to see what we can do to make your time on BCA better? Or maybe convince lurkers to become active. Any cool add-ons you've seen on other forums that you think we could use? Or maybe what we're doing right that you really enjoy on this website.

Often as mods and admins we can't catch it all (we have our own lives to live too), so I want to take a moment to reach out to you guys and see if there's things bugging you. *Please don't make it a rant or throw specific members into the fire. * I'm just looking for suggestions, comments or praises on how you feel BCA is being run and what we could do better.

Things we're going to be cracking down on.

-Profanity/Coarse language (We want this site family friendly, profanity is not needed to get your point accross.)

-E-Bullying (People won't always agree with everyone, be respectful of others even if you don't agree with them. Bullying other members is not tolerated. I've noticed an increase in overly aggressive self proclaimed know it all's. We will ban these people without warning so please be respectful to other members.)

-Slander (If you have an issue with a sponsor or member please PM them or post in their section. Publicly slandering them does not help anyone resolve the matter in any way. This is not a matter of us trying to restrict your freedom or covering up for sponsors but more to protect ourselves from possible legalities. )

-Non-sponsor Breeders/Commercial selling (We have sponsors and breeders that keep this site running for everyone. We also have FREE giveaways and host events to endorse the hobby. All which cost money. Why should non-sponsoring breeders/stores be able use BCA to profit for themselves only and not the BCA community. The more money we get, the more money we sink back into this site. Offenders will have their ads removed and/or accounts banned without warning. If you're unsure if you're considered a breeder please PM an admin or mod)

Thanks for reading this thread.


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## Ursus sapien

First off, I do appreciate this forum. I've met amazing hobbyists here, and made friends. Learned some things, too. So please don't take this as general a BCA bash.

I think BCA has totally missed the mark with hobbyist breeders, and over-estimated how much we earn from our efforts. For many of us, breeding is a significant part of the challenge and fascination of fish keeping. If we're lucky, we make back enough money to pay for _some_ of our hobby.

When I suggested a breeder section for BCA over a year ago, I was thinking something like $30 to $50 a year. Think about it; in each of 2010 and 2011, I've sold about $200 worth of plants and animals on BCA. That's it. That's an average of _less_ than $20 a month.

Lumping hobbyist breeders into the same category as professional importers and large scale breeders is grossly unfair, and being asked to pay $15 a month (or over $160 a year, even with the discount) for the privilege is absurd, especially given the amount of things I give away for free, and the amount of time I spend in email, private message and telephone conversations helping members with their projects and answering questions. Remember too, that kijiji, craigslist, CAC Auction and Aquabid are all free.

This statement "_Why should non-sponsoring breeders/stores be able use BCA to profit for themselves only and not the BCA community._" says it all about the attitude directed at small-scale hobbyist breeders. It completely dismisses everything I've tried to bring to this community, and why so many people have quietly left the site.

In almost any other setting, hobbyist breeders are seen as welcome and valued contributors to the hobbyist community. Here, we're pariahs.


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## budahrox

Ursus sapien said:


> First off, I do appreciate this forum. I've met amazing hobbyists here, and made friends. Leaned some things, too. So please don't take this as general a BCA bash.
> 
> I think BCA has totally missed the mark with hobbyist breeders, and over-estimated how much we earn from our efforts. For many of us, breeding is a significant part of the challenge and fascination of fish keeping. If we're lucky, we make back enough money to pay for _some_ of our hobby.
> 
> When I suggested a breeder section for BCA over a year ago, I was thinking something like $30 to $50 a year. Think about it; in each of 2010 and 2011, I've sold about $200 worth of plants and animals on BCA. That's it. That's an average of _less_ than $20 a month.
> 
> Lumping hobbyist breeders into the same category as professional importers and large scale breeders is grossly unfair, and being asked to pay $15 a month (or over $160 a year, even with the discount) for the privilege is absurd, especially given the amount of things I give away for free, and the amount of time I spend in email, private message and telephone conversations helping members with their projects and answering questions. Remember too, that kijiji, craigslist, CAC Auction and Aquabid are all free.
> 
> This statement "_Why should non-sponsoring breeders/stores be able use BCA to profit for themselves only and not the BCA community._" says it all about the attitude directed at small-scale hobbyist breeders. It completely dismisses everything I've tried to bring to this community, and why so many people have quietly left the site.
> 
> In almost any other setting, hobbyist breeders are seen as welcome and valued contributors to the hobbyist community. Here, we're pariahs.


Without Malice;
Couldn't have said it better myself Storm.
IMHO BCA has transformed from a hobbyist driven site to a LFS driven for profit site & it's really discouraging. I have been told that I should consider myself a breeder. What a joke. I welcome any Mod or Admin to my home to see my set ups & tell me how I'm a breeder???? I've probably sold less than $200 worth of fish in the 4 or 5 yrs I've been here & given away far more in $ than that. I wouldn't even want to add up how much I've bought over that time, my sales wouldn't even scratch the surface. The double standard on bashing really bothers me as well. If you're a sponsor seems it's OK to bash but otherwise don't try it. Sadly the attitude & flavor of the BCA board has definitely gone 180 degrees in the wrong direction. 
Cheers!!
Don


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## jiang604

There's too much grey area in the breeder section... that's all I have to say.


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## davefrombc

I don't know of any hobbyists on here that could be considered a "breeder" in any commercial sense. Some members are able to raise a considerable number of fish they may specialize in ; be it Africans , Angels , guppies. plecos or whatever . . Their costs far outweigh anything they make in selling the results of their success in breeding their favourite species. I too have seen far more emphasis in the site making money for the owners than in furthering the hobby for the members.
The only way I would consider anyone a breeder for business purposes is if that individual makes all or even a good portion of his or her income from propagating fish or plants for the hobby. The commercial sponsors of BCA make far more off members and the present so called "breeders" on the site than they lose to them selling the results of a successful spawning or plant propagation effort .
If you really feel the need to limit people offering their excess stock , then set a limit to the number of " for sale" items they can list per week or month.
I fully agree with not tolerating any form of e-bullying, but, except for banning certain words or racial slurs, I have reservations on your choice of censorship of "profanity" on the site. There is no argument about banning some of the most vulgar anglo-saxon expressions, but I have seen some , to me , ridiculous complaints about words or phrases used on the site that really are innocuous except to the very straight laced religious members.
I very much appreciate the efforts Shawn has made to improve the site, and to listen to suggestions from members regarding additions to features on it. It is a very long way removed from what the original BCA was; and that has been a vast improvement . Mods must be commended also for their efforts policing the site and for their help to members having site access issues.
I haven't felt the desire to knot the knickers of any of the mods for what I would consider over zealous policing for a long time.
I have no argument with the site owners making some profit for their efforts, or with corporate sponsors wanting to see a return on their investment sponsoring the site; but I do think that the fees asked of those hobbyists who are successful breeding their favourite species are excessive. If you are importing stock, or buying and reselling for profit, then you should be sponsoring; but if you are successful raising your fish's spawns, or growing your plants, then you should be able to offer them to fellow hobbyists here without being pushed into paying "sponsor" fees. Limit the number of times an individual can offer fish or plants in a month if you wish ; but rethink your policy on charging for the privilege.


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## monkE

I don't really see a whole lot about this site that I can complain about, with the sole exception of the "mark forums read" button being directly below the "Today's Posts" button in that quick links drop down menu causing me to hit it accidentally all the time.  

I consider this sight a huge resource to gather information when i need it, and a great place to buy and sell equipment.


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## Jasonator

Firstly, Thanks to the admin for this 'sharing of opinion' thread

I was recommended to BCA in June-ish of this year. Not once have I had a problem or complaint. And I hit this forum daily!! In fact, I know I'm hooked!!

It's so great that the hobby has such a good friend in this forum. I have visited many other sites since delving back into the hobby this year, and - for my own small hobby purposes - BCA by far out-does any other site or forum.

I have not witnessed any bullying of any kind  And I support a ZERO tolerance of such behaviour!

Slander is a grey area, as one's fair opinion or criticism could be considered as unnecessarily negative, so it's up to individual members to remember that everything we do and say has consequences - good or bad. - Just be responsible.

I hope to see fair treatment of those who do like to sell equipment/livestock. = I surely do, and I did 25 yrs ago - when I was 14 years old, too - If only to meet other hobbyists and maybe contribute some funds back into my hobby. Storm addressed this point rather well.

All-in-all, I give BCA a *9*

and that's all I have to say about that...

.


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## Grete_J

davefrombc said:


> If you really feel the need to limit people offering their excess stock , then set a limit to the number of " for sale" items they can list per week or month.


Oddly enough, there is a limit of 2 ads. I wasn't even aware of this until the other day.



> 7)*No Multiple Ads : if you are selling multiple items please list everything in 1 thread, do not create a new thread for every item. No more than two ads per member active at a time.*


I think there needs to be more definition when describing a breeder, whether it be a hobbyist breeder or commercial. Buttt...part of the problem with categorizing someone as a breeder to post in the appropriate section is that fish like kribs will produce ALOT, but aren't in high demand, bringing the price down to $1/ea or free. Compared to a discus or axolotl breeder, where stock generally sells for $40+, is when I've noticed people voicing concern.

I don't have many concerns with regards to profanity or bullying via posts as the mods have been doing a great job watching threads  I do have concerns about some of the "regular" users who do manage to eke by with comments that can be taken as bullying. I've seen a few times where threads get out of hand & a few members watching their friends' back via throwing less than positive comments at newer members, while the mods jump on the bandwagon in agreement with the more seasoned members. Regardless of how you look at it, that is bullying, hazing, whatev and doesn't really pull a hobbyist community together. Lets start the kumbaya's


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## AndrewL

The forum has been beneficial in several ways for my re-introduction into this hobby.

a) Information
- very good information provided by members and sponsors. To become better, the site should include all parts of the community. I would love to see manufacturers (like Seachem, Hagen), breeders and others participate. 

b) Classifieds
- Over the past few months, most of my fish and equipment have been purchased from members, club and sponsors. I was astonished at the size of the hobby business in BC when I was exploring the site. I realize not everyone will join but it would be great to welcome all.


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## Claudia

I am with Ursus Sapien, Budahrox and Davefrombc. I am not a breeder and i am not a Sponsor but i think the prices they have to pay are way to much for what they make out of their sells....thats if they make anything. Most of the people here does more for the members as free then what they sell.
This has been a great forum but things have change a lot


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## The Guy

*Well done, thanks!!!*

I am in aggreement with Storm, Don & Dave so I'm not going to write another statement saying the same things. The site itself is IMO one of the best as to what is offered with knowledge as well as livestock,equipment etc. Thank you for the chance to offer an opinion, well done Shawn and all the team for your dedication to better the hobby. Cheers Laurie :bigsmile:


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## arash53

I wonder if the (TOP LIST) or (Recent New/Updated Posts ) link could be added to the first page ,and shows top 50 updated/new posts .

Thanks


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## Nicklfire

Interesting talk about the breeder section, i had no idea.. good to hear thoughts.

We orignally did the breeder section because of the fact that it was a suggestion from various memebers.. so i rolled with it.
Anyone that thinks that's a downfall of BCA could you please offer suggestions to me?

Should we just scrap the whole breeder section? By no way do i want to become a "LFS" online, that's not what this site is about and i think that most of you would agree who know me that's not the direction i'd want to take.


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## Grete_J

I'd say that $5/30 days as a paid subscription as a breeder is more suitable. It doesn't seem like much, but there's not much going on in that section as is. If it dropped to $5/30 day period, you may get 2 - 3 breeders/month.


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## Nicklfire

I appreciate the input !


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## Sliver

i'd like to see a minimum post requirement for those wishing to post a classified ad. i think it would make sense for people to not only have to register but to also be required to post in the "introduce yourself" thread, as well as make a minimum of say 5 or 10 posts before being allowed to sell things here. this site is meant to be a community of hobbyists, not craigslist.


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## Nicklfire

davefrombc said:


> I too have seen far more emphasis in the site making money for the owners than in furthering the hobby for the members.


this quote probably affects me the most and makes me feels ashamed that anyone would interpret this that way.

Many people dont realize the expenses that this site incurs.. with repairs, server costs, prizes.. blah blah blah, i've listed them so many time and there are so many.

Just this morning i got a bill for 400$ from a company fixing the site refresh and problem with the albums..5 hours of work.. 400$

That just 1 cost associated with the site..

what i do is find various ways to keep the income coming into the site and the breeder section seemed like a win win.. but apparantly it's not taken off such as i though it would

I REALLY do appreciate your input into the site..


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## Nicklfire

Until we find a suitable solution that meets everyone needs i have lowered the breeder section to 5$ per month, will not go above that ever.


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## Morainy

I like meeting fish hobbyists through this forum. I've learned more from people on this forum, some of whom have come over to look at my tanks and give me their ideas, than I did by reading library books about the hobby since childhood. (No offense, Herbert Axelrod)

I miss the old chat room. I can't seem to figure out the new one.

Sometimes, I feel uncomfortable when a local pet store or sponsor is targeted by someone over an issue involving a particular sale, in an effort to resolve their problem by drawing attention to it here. Fortunately, this is rare.


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## Nicklfire

Morainy said:


> I miss the old chat room. I can't seem to figure out the new one.


If i put together some youtube videos such as tutorials how to post, how to reply to a thread, how to use the chatroom, would that be beneficial?


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## effox

Nicklfire said:


> If i put together some youtube videos such as tutorials how to post, how to reply to a thread, how to use the chatroom, would that be beneficial?


Only if you narrate it in a sexy voice Shawn.


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## davefrombc

Shawn ---I didn't mean it they way it sounded , but in context of the pricing for members selling fish and plants they've grown as part of their hobby .. I realize there are a lot of expenses maintaining the site; especially when you have to call in outside help.
There has been , in my opinion , too much trying to get more out of those selling their surplusses than in finding more corporate sponsors. As I stated , you have been great at listening to requests for changes and improvements to the forum; and it is a far better venue than it was when you first came into it . I belonged to the original forum and dropped out; only to return just after you took over administering it . I have neither bought nor sold in the classifieds , so I do not have a vested interest in how their use is run , but I do know several who have been pressured into paying to continue selling fish they raised because they were considered "breeders" . I know at least one who dropped out because of it . Personally, I have given some things to other members , and tried to help them with non fish problems ( mostly pc related) rather than trying to charge for the help or gifts . All -in-all, this is a great site , well run , but with that one sore spot... that you have seen is a sore spot with several affected people .


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## Mferko

budahrox said:


> IMHO BCA has transformed from a hobbyist driven site to a LFS driven for profit site & it's really discouraging.
> Don


+1 
buda and storm put it well.

thats the reason i stopped checking into this site except when i get a PM
received one about this thread lol


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## Nicklfire

davefrombc said:


> Shawn ---I didn't mean it they way it sounded , but in context of the pricing for members selling fish and plants they've grown as part of their hobby .. I realize there are a lot of expenses maintaining the site; especially when you have to call in outside help.
> There has been , in my opinion , too much trying to get more out of those selling their surplusses than in finding more corporate sponsors. As I stated , you have been great at listening to requests for changes and improvements to the forum; and it is a far better venue than it was when you first came into it . I belonged to the original forum and dropped out; only to return just after you took over administering it . I have neither bought nor sold in the classifieds , so I do not have a vested interest in how their use is run , but I do know several who have been pressured into paying to continue selling fish they raised because they were considered "breeders" . I know at least one who dropped out because of it . Personally, I have given some things to other members , and tried to help them with non fish problems ( mostly pc related) rather than trying to charge for the help or gifts . All -in-all, this is a great site , well run , but with that one sore spot... that you have seen is a sore spot with several affected people .


You have been a very long time memeber and i greatly appreciate your input, what would be your suggestions if any?



Mferko said:


> +1
> buda and storm put it well.
> 
> thats the reason i stopped checking into this site except when i get a PM
> received one about this thread lol


could you elaborate for me on this thread or via a pm to me, this is the last thing i'd like to see happen, please give me some suggestions


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## davefrombc

I think the $5/mo. for those regularly posting plants or fish they've grown themselves is fair. If members are buying and selling as a sideline, that is an entirely different matter and not something for the classifieds , but for sponsors only. If someone knows they will regularly have surplusses to sell, then they shouldn't have a complaint with the $5/ mo. I don't think that will affect many members; most may only have some items for the classifieds occasionally .


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## charles

Shawn has set the price for $15 / month. But you don't have to sign up for the whole year. There are breeders that chatted this with me and also express that it is more than far. If you plan ahead, you can unload some of your fish in a month for only $15. Skip a couple of months, then do it again. 

The breeder section is for someone who has multiple tanks doing multiple types of fish breeding all at once. It is not that difficult at all to have hundreds of africans, or bristlenose, or even shrimp, and plants. Just put a CO2 system in your tank and you know how much clipping you can do. Or leave your shrimp tanks alone and let them breed.

I really don't see the problem or the amount of price for the breeder account. 

There was once a talk about how much it takes for someone to raised L46 and sell the babies for $100-$120 each and not making anything. I have helped one of my very good customer to sell over 50+ babies just this year. He is not buying that much more food than his adult group. He is not spending a whole lot of time to change water as it is a tank with many tiny fish. And yet, he got paid around $5k for the fish just sitting around. I know how much he puts in because I service his tanks. 

And what about cheaper fish like african? You can get a couple hundred babies easy with not much money increase in food bill for the fish. $15/month is like selling 3 of your babies assuming you are only charging $5 per african and that is if you are selling every month.

I did not think that price is high at all.


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## Grete_J

Sliver said:


> i'd like to see a minimum post requirement for those wishing to post a classified ad. i think it would make sense for people to not only have to register but to also be required to post in the "introduce yourself" thread, as well as make a minimum of say 5 or 10 posts before being allowed to sell things here. this site is meant to be a community of hobbyists, not craigslist.


I agree with Sliver on this one. I see alot of people sign up so they can post in the classifieds only to never return. Having a minimum posting requirement in place would (potentially) help introduce new members, bring the community together so we can start on the kumbaya's.


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## charles

And Shawn and the team of BCA has given more than fair to many people including commerical their chance. There are people flying under the rader and the BCA team knows it and let them. it is not like you are selling a bunch of things and they want you to sign up right away.

With other forum, they run a much more straight rule. If you are selling, you are not paying for sponsorship, you can't post. You can't even post a photo of your own fish as they will label you as trying to advertise.


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## Slopster

Nicklfire said:


> Until we find a suitable solution that meets everyone needs i have lowered the breeder section to 5$ per month, will not go above that ever.


Is there any other way to pay other than Visa/MC and paypal, as I do not use it at all, for one Visa'a and myself do not get along togeather and i don't use paypal, 
you and i spoke before shawn about me sending a cheque but you had mentioned that it wouldn't be advisable to continue doing it that way.
Is there any way to do it that way or even use Cash???

Not sure how it work but maybe some way??

Plus your doing a damn fine job running this site.
I've spent more money and time on this site ie buying fish/equipment etc then i have in any LFS ..


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## hp10BII

effox said:


> Only if you narrate it in a sexy voice Shawn.


uhmmmm....don't know if I can deal with the distraction.


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## TomC

I have to disagree with having a minimum post requirement to put something in classified catagories. The ads are a great resource for finding livestock and used equipment. Anything that discourages offering items for sale lessens the usefulness of the site.

Regarding breeders: Is there really such a thing as a professional (or even semi-professional) breeder in BC? If so, they must be so few in number that it could easily be dealt with on a case by case basis.

As for the owner of this site making lots of money from it, I highly doubt it. I would consider it a success if it can even break even. And if he does manage to make a few bucks, then good for him. It can't be enough to compensate for the time and effort put into keeping things running so smoothly.


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## Captured Moments

How about adding 2 new features under the "quick links" section like they have in The Planted Tank Forum.
1) Find My Threads
2) Find My Posts

Pretty useful I think in following up on your posts and threads.

Also perhaps make a sticky about the rules on giving/receiving itraders when a transaction occurs.


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## jobber

May be stupid to some but it's an idea:
I propose that only DONATORS can sell in the classifies. Stratify the amount donated for the # of posts. Posts will expire after two months. This will help increase the dollar amount of donation to keep this forum going and providing more funds for monthly prizes. 

Example: 
$20 for the year will give you all the existing perks and 12 posts for selling items.
$10 for the year will give you 5 posts for selling items in the classifies.

We can then get different Donator pictures.

It's very grey with the whole breeders debate. Now that my BNP's have surprisingly bred and i want to offload them, would I be considered a breeder? 
Having breeders sell their plentiful fish at a low price helps introduce the beginner hobbyist and new members to fish that they would otherwise would not buy. I'm sure we can all find a median.


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## Ursus sapien

Slopster said:


> Is there any other way to pay other than Visa/MC and paypal, as I do not use it at all, for one Visa'a and myself do not get along togeather and i don't use paypal,
> you and i spoke before shawn about me sending a cheque but you had mentioned that it wouldn't be advisable to continue doing it that way.
> Is there any way to do it that way or even use Cash???
> 
> Not sure how it work but maybe some way??
> 
> Plus your doing a damn fine job running this site.
> I've spent more money and time on this site ie buying fish/equipment etc then i have in any LFS ..


Post Office money orders are secure, and there's no money risk as they're prepaid.


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## Ursus sapien

jobber604 said:


> May be stupid to some but it's an idea:
> I propose that only DONATORS can sell in the classifies. Stratify the amount donated for the # of posts. Posts will expire after two months. This will help increase the dollar amount of donation to keep this forum going and providing more funds for monthly prizes.
> 
> Example:
> $20 for the year will give you all the existing perks and 12 posts for selling items.
> $10 for the year will give you 5 posts for selling items in the classifies.
> 
> We can then get different Donator pictures.
> 
> It's very grey with the whole breeders debate. Now that my BNP's have surprisingly bred and i want to offload them, would I be considered a breeder?
> Having breeders sell their plentiful fish at a low price helps introduce the beginner hobbyist and new members to fish that they would otherwise would not buy. I'm sure we can all find a median.


Not stupid at all, I think it's a very creative, community focused approach.


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## Slopster

Ursus sapien said:


> Post Office money orders are secure, and there's no money risk as they're prepaid.


So just make it out to BCAQUARIA i guess??


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## Ursus sapien

ask Shawn about that 

The money orders are in two parts, so you have a receipt in case the envelope gets lost in the mail.


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## Elle

I'm seconding Jobber's idea of allowing donators to post in the classifieds and having X sales posts for X dollar amounts. People who want to post a lot of sale ads could pay extra, people who are just offloading the occasional item would pay less. Could we put the posting limit only on the FS ads rather than the LF or FF? I don't think LF or FF/FT posts really count as "sale posts". I think it would really help for people who only sell a certain amount of stuff/fish. $15 or $25 is pretty reasonable. I might exclude the Misc. items from the fee structure and leave that as a free for any non-fish stuff.

Sponsors could still have their own forums for their specific businesses, which works better. If I'm looking for specific info and I know that a particular person breeds X or Y, I check out their sponsor forum. I don't think I've ever looked at the breeder forum. Seems logical to me.

Otherwise, I really like BCA. I find the community and the people to be generally extremely helpful and informative, and I've met a lot of really nice people through the forum.


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## effox

My only concern would be the lack of people wanting to become donators. That would really drive the classifieds into the ground without volume. (I'm a donator anyways, so it's not like I have anything against this idea other than that).

Only my 2 cents...

Cheers,
Chris


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## Elle

That was one reason to make the FF/FT/LF postings free. If you're not making money off the post, you don't need to pay.


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## Cichlid2010

How about set a FS limit for regular member (say, 10 FS ads per month) and extend that limit (or no limit) for donators depends on the donated dollar amount?

or even set different FS limits for junior and senior members.

Also, I agree with the previous posts that there should not be any limit on LF or FF.


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## Niffarious

@jobber - was this suggestion intended for those selling a lot of items or doing small scale breeding, or everyone?

I have never been on a forum (and I have been part of many, in several different hobbies - some of which cost a LOT to run) where people had to pay in order to post even the odd item in the classifieds section.
I understand for large scale breeders and commercial vendors. However, I suspect requiring people to donate just so they can post the odd thing for sale will turn the classifieds into a graveyard.


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## Claudia

I think that if everybody has to b a donator to sell something BCA wont have as many people selling things, there are other places to sell for free like Craigslist, kijiji even facebook


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## target

I think beign a donator to sell items was just a suggestion. Having everyone have to be a donator to post in the classifieds would pretty much end the classifieds.

However, having more donators on the forum would be awesome to see. I rarely sell items on this forum, but I do build stands for others here. I feel as part of what I get out of this forum, and the projects I build for others, that donating yearly is a small cost for the benefits. Plus, I like to be able to help Shawn keep this being the forum that I frequent on a multiple times per day basis. 

This forum is a great resource for local hobbiests, and a great place to find info and others who are just as fish crazy as you and I are. Let's make sure it stays around for a long time.


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## jobber

Niffarious said:


> @jobber - was this suggestion intended for those selling a lot of items or doing small scale breeding, or everyone?
> 
> I have never been on a forum (and I have been part of many, in several different hobbies - some of which cost a LOT to run) where people had to pay in order to post even the odd item in the classifieds section.
> I understand for large scale breeders and commercial vendors. However, I suspect requiring people to donate just so they can post the odd thing for sale will turn the classifieds into a graveyard.


I don't say much or offer any opinions other than to suggest using almond leaves. But here I go. We could conjure up something that could remedy 90% of whatever problem seems to be. We need to identify the issue first...which is what? Let's list the issues at stake right now and find a remedial solution. This hobby is about sharing and helping each other save money, is it not? Shouldn't there be a culture of "hey, let's help save some people some money" yet recognize that the BCA forum isn't operating for free, which requires sponsorship or donation

I've only been on BCA for about 1.5 years, but I can already see the type of culture and environment; which is quite positive, unlike many others out there.

I see the following ongoing issues (I'm leaving the sponsors out of things because they're set):

1.) Breeders (small time/big time dealers) are selling fish at a discount price (good for the buyer) and some people are not happy.
Solution: There needs to be a define way to categorize HARDCORE breeders to joe blow breeders like myself who get lucky with a batch of 60 bnp's. If the issue is that breeders of any size are posting for free, then we need to set a limit for allowable SALE posts, especially for livestock. The breeders are selling the fish usually at a price way below market (LFS price).

2.) BCA needs monetary funding through sponsorship or through donation.
Solution: Provide incentives to increase donation; Allow regular users 1 post for sale items per month; Allow donators of $20+, 5 per month......

3.) Shop vs. Basement operations <-- I'm getting very sick and tired of these types of debate and discussions that lead to nowhere but irritate BCA members. Please just respect the choices people make for operating their business. I've just about lost it on this forum seeing the same discussion get bumped up everyday---I frequent BCA everyday to try help provide answers to queries, but get so annoyed at seeing the same reoccurring debates.... 
Solution: Implement a LIKE or DISLIKE vote to the OP, if enough DISLIKE, just close off the friggin post. You know these posts are just irritating and put MODS in a tough situation.

I'll be back to share more thoughts. This is a good discussion and very constructive.

Let's find solutions, and not just state the problems.


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## jobber

target said:


> I think beign a donator to sell items was just a suggestion. Having everyone have to be a donator to post in the classifieds would pretty much end the classifieds.
> 
> However, having more donators on the forum would be awesome to see. I rarely sell items on this forum, but I do build stands for others here. I feel as part of what I get out of this forum, and the projects I build for others, that donating yearly is a small cost for the benefits. Plus, I like to be able to help Shawn keep this being the forum that I frequent on a multiple times per day basis.
> 
> This forum is a great resource for local hobbiests, and a great place to find info and others who are just as fish crazy as you and I are. Let's make sure it stays around for a long time.


Be a donator to SELL. Regular users get 1 post to sell per month, donators status quo as current.


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## Morainy

Hi Shawn,

That's a very kind offer! But, you have a baby, don't you? And looking after this site is like looking after triplet toddlers. You probably have better things to do than Youtubes.

Just after I posted, DavefromBC invited me into a tutorial by PM and showed me how to use the chat room.

This is what I like about the site. The people! So, thank you all.



Nicklfire said:


> If i put together some youtube videos such as tutorials how to post, how to reply to a thread, how to use the chatroom, would that be beneficial?


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## roadrunner

I would welcome ability to upload and see the pictures in our albums again. 

If I was reminded at the auction when I was paying for my items, I would have paid the donator fee then. Just an idea for next time.


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## charles

Ming, i don't think you fall into the breeder area. When Shawn defines the breeder area, he actually aims at people who has multiple tanks and breed and sell lots of fish.

I still don't understand the issue here. 95% people will not get affected by the $15/breeder fee per month. That is basically for people who do large scale breeding with multiple breeding fish in multiple tanks.


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## airbaggedmazda

The only thing I get tried of is seeing the same ad in the classifieds bumped everyday, sometimes twice a day for 2 or 3 weeks straight.


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## gklaw

First of all, I am with Shawn in the amount of work and $ required to maintain the site. THANKS Shawn. I am perturbed to see the impatience the moment the site is down. Or people asking for free prizes when they don't even donate to the site.

Even if the administrator is to make a few $ at the end of the day. There is nothing wrong with that. We want to make a few $ with our hobby, why shouldn't they. We know no one is going to get rich on this forum. We have the benefits of buying equipment cheap here. We wants Christmas free prize draw but which of us is going to send Shawn a Christmas present?

At the end of the day, this is a kind of honour system that we all need to respect. I met a lot of great people and learned a lot about the hobby here! That for the great advice from alot of experts as well.

May be an annual fee for "registered members" say $10 /year for ability to post FS could help support and reward Shawn's effort? If you don't sell more than $10 a year, you may as well post it FF. That also eliminate people who sign on just to unload their stuff like this is CL?

Keep up the good work Shawn


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## Acipenser

gklaw said:


> May be an annual fee for "registered members" say $10 /year for ability to post FS could help support and reward Shawn's effort? If you don't sell more than $10 a year, you may as well post it FF. That also eliminate people who sign on just to unload their stuff like this is CL?
> 
> Keep up the good work Shawn


This would kill the site, the only way is to take the good with the bad, over all the site is 99% GREAT ! There are a lot of awesome people on this forum. I have personally dealt with the mods on here for various reasons and they are more than fair.

Free advertising all ready exists on craigslist making people pay to advertise in the form of membership fee's will just limit the number of people on this site.

(Which reminds me I should become a member because this site is great and I want it to go on for a long time ! )


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## effox

Acipenser said:


> (Which reminds me I should become a member because this site is great and I want it to go on for a long time ! )


Might as well, I'm a mod and I still donate :bigsmile:


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## Jaguar

I know I'm a new member and all, but I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in anyways. I am a member of quite a few aquarium hobby forums, but this is the only local forum I have found that is even somewhat active.

This forum does seem too heavily centered on sponsors and buyers/sellers. I don't know it was intended... but it seems like hobbyists are kind of getting shoved aside. While it's nice to know any promotions and such big sponsors are having, I don't like that there is a *huge* forum dedicated to them *on top* of the hobbyist forums.. I understand that sponsors and breeders are what keeps the fees paid, but us hobbyists are what really keeps the site afloat. Put them down at the bottom of the forum listings, not us.

I dunno, I would just like to see this site catered more to people who support the hobby and keep the exchange of information flowing.... not to the people who put the most money on the table. And perhaps more branching out to outside of the lower mainland. I wish there was an aquarium club in the Okanagan... unless I'm missing something.


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## Acipenser

effox said:


> Might as well, I'm a mod and I still donate :bigsmile:


DONE ! Finally !


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## Ursus sapien

charles said:


> ...When Shawn defines the breeder area, he actually aims at people who has multiple tanks and breed and sell lots of fish.
> 
> I still don't understand the issue here. 95% people will not get affected by the $15/breeder fee per month. That is basically for people who do large scale breeding with multiple breeding fish in multiple tanks.


But that _is_ the issue Charles. Small-scale breeders (like me, with my 3 breeding pairs/trios of bristlenoses) are expected to pay the same fees as a breeder with a garage full of tanks. The difference in scale is enormous.

I did the math. The fee you're defending is 43% of my _total gross sales_ in 2010. But _less than half_ of what I sell is sold on this forum. And it'll be closer to a third for 2011. What business - humble or grand- is going to pay 43% of their _total_ gross for the privilege of selling their product to one third of their customers?

This is a lot of personal information to give out in a public place; certainly no one else is giving up their numbers. But it seems worth it if I can demonstrate the foolishness of the policy as it stood when this thread started.

The other reality that's getting missed is that Canadian Aquatics, Island Pets and Ursus sapien (as an example comparison) sell to _3 very different markets_. The BCA members who buy from me don't buy the kind of fish I sell from pet stores, and they seem happy to go to you for anything exotic. There may be some overlap, but, really, _there is no competition_ here. There is no reason why we can't be supportive of each other, and the community in general.

This endless debate, coupled with user fees, just strengthens the perception that BCA has become a sponsor's forum, not a hobbyist's forum. In the long run, that's going to kill BCA.

regards, Storm


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## LikeItLow

i havnt read every post and dont plan on it, my only addition would be a "like" button instead of the over used "thank you" button.


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## Diztrbd1

Nicklfire said:


> Interesting talk about the breeder section, i had no idea.. good to hear thoughts.
> 
> We orignally did the breeder section because of the fact that it was a suggestion from various memebers.. so i rolled with it.
> Anyone that thinks that's a downfall of BCA could you please offer suggestions to me?
> 
> Should we just scrap the whole breeder section? By no way do i want to become a "LFS" online, that's not what this site is about and i think that most of you would agree who know me that's not the direction i'd want to take.


Personally I think the breeder section is a good idea. Not that alot of people here fall into the category. But it is kind of unfair to the sponsors who pay to advertise here. I think it just needs some fine tuning as alot of others have suggested. I don't think that people who have a once in awhile spawn like Ming , Storm and many others fall into the breeder category. What I do feel is considered a breeder is when someone has multiple tanks and , for example, raising high end shrimp and selling them at high end prices ...that to me is a breeder & while the sponsors and BCA donators are basically the ones paying for them to advertise their stock for free. 1 shrimp @ $10.... minimum of 5...with100 or more for sale? And complain about a measly $15 a month?? There is no grey area about examples like this imo! What really kills me is the people that make good money off things like this won't even pay to be a donator. If your going to make money off this site the least you can do is put a little into it. I know the majority of people here shouldn't fall in that category. But when it comes to shrimp and a couple other high $$ species that breed easily and produce lots of offspring & that person has multiple tanks doing it. I think its safe to say it's more than just a hobby to them.
Personally I love this site & have close to no complaints what so ever. I know it isn't cheap running it. I find it hard to believe anyone could actually profit from running it. There is one thing I'd like to see...ads looking for things like small FRT's & other species on the endangered species list I feel should be deleted immediately. Nobody is breeding these, and the only way your going to find a small FRT here, is if it is brought into the country illegally. Ads like this simply support an illegal trade & therefore I strongly feel these ads should not be allowed. Other than that, I love this site. Keep up the great job !


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## BCAquaria

> Non-sponsor Breeders/Commercial selling (We have sponsors and breeders that keep this site running for everyone. We also have FREE giveaways and host events to endorse the hobby. All which cost money. Why should non-sponsoring breeders/stores be able use BCA to profit for themselves only and not the BCA community. The more money we get, the more money we sink back into this site. Offenders will have their ads removed and/or accounts banned without warning. If you're unsure if you're considered a breeder please PM an admin or mod)


This wasn't meant as an attack on breeders. I was more referring to the people breeding on the larger scale and meanwhile selling other stuff. It s quite obvious to me when someone is breeding for fun or more so to make a profit. Once you're importing stuff or selling things for a "PROFIT" I think it's only fair that you support the website.

If you think this is a cash grab for us personally you are sadly misinformed. Shawn and I might MAYYYYYYYYYYYBE take $200 or so a year for personal stuff over the last little while. I've been running this site for almost 10 years, 6 years of it all out of my pocket. Since shawn has been on board this site is no longer an actual deficit to me. So if you're going to whine to me about overhead costs outweighing personal gain I think I have you beat. Not including the headaches of dealing with the everyday issues that arise.

Personally, without Shawn I would've shutdown BCA mainly because of how underappreciated I felt over the years. As you can tell by my lack of posting. First came the server issues. Then the constant whining about members and sponsors. The worst are the "freedom fighters". The ones that want to swear or feel the "RIGHT" to say anything offensive.

The minimal amount of money and the constant headaches is discouraging. If you're against me running a site to make more money for MYSELF then I'm sorry. That's too bad. I feel I deserve it for almost a decade of service. I don't know many other people that have spent the time, money and dedication to keep something running at a deficit in the name of endorsing the hobby. Then to have people whine about everything you do as a cash grab. Keep in mind like 90+% of whatever we get goes BACK into the site. Not ALL the giveaways are donated. You'd think as an admin you'd get perks like discounts or freebies. We don't. We want to support those supporting us. All freebies go as giveaways to the site. Hosting is not free. The forum subscription costs money. Any add-ons to the forum and extra bandwith cost money. Auctions cost money. Staff dinners cost money. End of the day, if you were running BCA for a decade how much would you HOPE to get from it per month? $100/month? If you average what we (shawn and I) take we're probably at $20/month. Would you want to deal with people whining at you constantly for $20/month? I don't. I hate drama.

That's my speak on breeders complaining about it. Again, I don't mean the small scale "do it for fun" breeders. I mean those guys that have a whole room or garage for breeding. Or the ones that fly under the radar that breed/import/etc. You have costs just like I have costs.


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## BCAquaria

Oh and I want to thank everyone for their feedback and keeping this clean. It helps us as admins to see others views and hopefully help clean the air. It's very hard to please everyone because we're all so different. So no matter what we do we'll always have people upset but don't take it personally. We just roll with the general consensus.


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## AndrewL

The forum has provided great value for a newbie like me. I have saved on purchases from the sponsors and members. I have also saved money on good advice by not having many of my fish die. So it is a small thing to help out - I became a donator.


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## Diztrbd1

BCAquaria said:


> Oh and I want to thank everyone for their feedback and keeping this clean. It helps us as admins to see others views and hopefully help clean the air. It's very hard to please everyone because we're all so different. So no matter what we do we'll always have people upset but don't take it personally. We just roll with the general consensus.


You can make some of the people happy, most of the time. But you can't make all the people happy all the time! Unless there's money involved lol :bigsmile: 
Actually just wanted to say...Happy Late Birthday Clarence! seen it was Monday :bigsmile:


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## Diztrbd1

Captured Moments said:


> How about adding 2 new features under the "quick links" section like they have in The Planted Tank Forum.
> 1) Find My Threads
> 2) Find My Posts
> 
> Pretty useful I think in following up on your posts and threads.


there are 2 options for doing that
1) Click on your name and go to your profile. Under mini stat's (top right) you will see "Show All Statistics" click that and and on the left you will see: 
"Find all posts by Captured Moments"
"Find all threads started by Captured Moments"

2)Click on "Quick Links" ,up above ....in the drop down menu there is a link for "Subscribed Threads" which, if you have the option is enabled,will list the threads you have commented on/subscribed to, in the order of their latest activity.
Hope this was helpful.



arash53 said:


> I wonder if the (TOP LIST) or (Recent New/Updated Posts ) link could be added to the first page ,and shows top 50 updated/new posts .


if you click on "Quick Links" ,up above , in the drop down menu there is a link for "Todays Post" which is basically what you are looking for? I dragged that link to my Bookmarks toolbar for 1 click access, which I find works even better than having it at the top of a page, hope that helps


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## fuzzysocks

Just a suggestion, but perhaps instead of trying to implement a system where small time breeding outfits have to pay, could we maybe set up guidelines for the maximum amount that people without a subscription can charge for fish/plants/etc? I've honestly lost count of the number of times people think that they should be able to get $25 for a full grown angelfish with bent fins, or think they can sell juvenile shrimp for as much as adult shrimp go for at a LFS. It could be useful in preventing six pages of "buuuump! It's an amazing deal, folks, even if I don't know the brand! Won't lower price or part out!"

I doubt that capping prices would hurt the paying breeders/sponsors. Given the choice between spending $8 to deal with someone we know well versus spending $5 to deal with "lol watup i hav plants for sale dont know quantity sorry no pics but i promise its a good deal!!!11!!", I think a lot of us would go with the people we know and trust.


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## April

Well I love bcaquaria and the people and I've learnt tons, met alot of great hobbyists.
My observations..I've seen quite a few quitting the hobby lately..maybe economics, and peoples lives change. 
I've seen alot of hobbyists quit posting. But there's new guys..as more and more members it does change flavours over the years. Seen it on the discus forum. Just changes with growth.
What I do notice being I use the tapatalk..is most new posts are classifieds etc.
My observation is there's not enough great discussions on fish or learning posts. This is the most discussion post in awhile.
As far as sponsors..they benefit but some also donate alot. I've always donated to every single contest or draw. I have helped distribute Shawn's group buy stuff..given big elaborate parties, with big feasts as appreciation many times..and also donate used tanks etc to kids etc who start out. 
One of my main reasons for being part of the community was to learn what people like, or want..as its like a marketing skill and also I've learnt alot about alot of fish and plants etc by reading about them on here . 
I've met Clarence quite a few times. And he's a great guy. I'm very glad you haven't closed bcaquaria down. And Sean. He's always within a short distance from the forum if there's a question . He answers all his messages promptly. Kept it running even with his major house moves . Not to mention province moves...
As far as the breeder discussion goes..I've seen a few who had tank after tank but as most said.. There's really not any serious breeders doing interesting breeding at all. Some abuse th system but most go in spurts if they get inundatd with babies from a spawn. Mostly I see Kribs , pleccos, hard to offload huge spawns of cichlids..but I'd say most sell or split the pair after a bit when they get too many.
Doesn't take long for the market to get saturated. 
Last month when Oliver was in town...I was asked at the meeting by Jen are there any breeders doing interesting breeding where we could take Oliver? Thought for a bit...nope. Couldn't think of anyone really. Vancouver doesn't have near what other towns have for cool breeder setups. 
Yes angel breeders can end up with hundreds...most of those get sold to stores or wholesalers. 
I know how much a forum takes to run and how much time is put into it. It's a labour of love . Most shut them down pretty quick. And they do take alot of money to run. The bigger they get the more server space etc and upgrades etc.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.274989,-122.835498


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## jiang604

I've just read through the comments made on the breeders section. As a supporter of the Breeders section there is a way around it that can satisfy a majority of the members. I think that keeping the breeder section the way it is with no other means of advertisement (brought this up as another member through pm suggested banners but this could conflict with what sponsors are already getting) is the way to go. In terms of cost, per monthly subscriptions is also the way to go as once you start splitting it to smaller durations of subscriptions it will get kinda messy. In terms of cost heres my suggestion:

minimum $1 per month and a max of $15 or even $20 per month it doesn't really matter for max. But for this example lets just say 15 is max. So it would be 1-15 at $1 increments for the breeder to choose for that month. This would take out the problem where some breeders sell stock which cost more than others at the same time it increases the target group of breeders to be able to utilize the breeder subsection. Here's an example and I'll use myself as an example. I breed cheap shrimp like cherries which i sell less than a dollar each and at the same time I have shrimp that can cost well over 2 grand each. If for an instance this month I have surpluss of the really expensive shrimp like lets say BKK and that I plan to sell it at 60 bucks each. I would then be able to subscribe for breeder subsection for 15 a month without any problems. Or I can subscribe for less than 15 if I feel that it probably won't sell from past experiences. And if I am selling cherry shrimps, same thing I can subscribe at $15 that month if I have alot to sell or less if I only have like 60 to sell at 85 cents which means 51 dollars then I have a choice to choose to pay 15 or a dollar depending on that months situation whether the breeder has an increased bill they had to pay due to lower temperatures and higher hydro to continue their breeding or what not. This choice of payment would then be a choice for the breeder.

Now of course we can't predict how things will sell. So ontop of that suggestion I would have to add that at the end of the subscription the subscriber would get an e-mail saying that your subscription has just ended and BCA if interested in statistics of how things are working can also ask and answer at the willingness of the breeder of course how much was sold and what are the experiences and any improvements + an account to donate anything extra that they want. Example. I chose $1 subscription that month selling BKK and chose that tier of subscription because I didn't think it would sell yet I wanted to advertise but it resulted in multiple sales. Then me giving back to BCA can pay the other 14 or another 15 or whatever amount (also depending if you have a bill or what not or whatever situation that it maybe). 

Also the $1 subscription thing. even if your a bi-annually plant selling person wouldn't mind I believe subscribing in the breeder sub section just for the heck of it even if they are only selling that plant package for $15. 

I believe the majority of BCA members want to give back to the community but being given a set price and not a choice in what to pay for a subscription is whats bugging some members. Like for me $5 per month is great but I myself don't think thats enough and would still be fine paying the 15 depending on what stock I have.


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## crazy72

My humble contribution to this good discussion.

- First, I think this is a great forum. Both Shawn and the mods team are doing a fantastic job and I'm very grateful to them for that. I can only begin to imagine how much work this is to run and moderate, and I really appreciate the fact that the moderation is done with respect and compassion. And I'd have no problem whatsoever with Shawn having some small financial compensation for all the work he does here.

- I've learned a lot on here, and also met some wonderful people. I don't spend so much time on here at the moment, but it's always a place that I like to visit regularly. I have found recently that perhaps the information-sharing posting activity has gone down a bit, and the ratio of classifieds posts vs. non-classifieds has gone up. I don't know if this is only an impression, I haven't collected stats or anything. But if it's true it would be a worrying trend. For me the value in the forum is in the sharing of information and personal experiences, as well as human interactions. Much more than in the classifieds.

- I can see Storm's point about small-scale breeders. I have no idea who was requested to sign up as a breeder and who wasn't (I know that I certainly wasn't when I bred a couple of batches of kribs a year for instance), but $15 a month looks like a steep price to me. I personally think that it's great to have some local small-scale breeders. They benefit the fish keeping community in many ways, and I think the forum should encourage and help them. Now I can see that there can be some abuse, but it's like anything. The odd abuse shouldn't be a reason to shoot down the help in the first place. Just my humble opinion.

Overall I think this a great place and I hope it stays up and alive for a long time. Kudos to both the administrators and the moderators.


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## TomC

Diztrbd1 said:


> There is one thing I'd like to see...ads looking for things like small FRT's & other species on the endangered species list I feel should be deleted immediately. Nobody is breeding these, and the only way your going to find a small FRT here, is if it is brought into the country illegally. Ads like this simply support an illegal trade & therefore I strongly feel these ads should not be allowed.


 I absolutely agree with this. FRTs and similar species have no business being offered for sale on this site.


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## neven

It is topics like this that make me want to keep coming back. Where else do you see an admin team so dead set on pleasing its members rather than its own agenda. Also topics like this made me realize i've used this site for a couple years and i never donated (fixed now).

Contrary to many thoughts expressed, i do not think this site has become too sponsor or classified focused. For those who think it has, perhaps try that button







whenever something in the hobby has caught your interest. I do it all the time, sometimes get replies and sometimes after an hour of typing a long winded hard to read wall of text i get lots of views and no replies  People want things to talk about on here, but someone needs to start the conversation. It doesn't need to be a question, it can be "I saw this site on guppy blood lines and i thought it was interesting." You'll notice that it only takes a few people to get the forum rolling again, once momentum starts, people come back and posts start piling up.

Now this breeder nonsense. We were having full scale breeders, some out of province, with dedicated websites of stock updates, posting in our classifieds. They were from my understanding the reason it was implemented. IF you got a basement operation meant for breeding (or a room/garage) then you technically are a breeder, no longer the gray area, no matter the profit or lack of it. Do as suggested stock up, then buy the cheap fee for a month, unload and repeat. This site is for hobbyists to converse, not commerce. Sponsors pay a pretty penny to support this site, its about respect, not the admins hammering the sponsors will down our throats. I'd say its the drama centered around this issue plus summer hitting that drove down the non classified activity. High price to pay for what, 4 members pissed off.

edit: you can minimize the forum sponsor section of posts if you browse in forum view rather than new posts. theres a solution for those who dont like seeing the long list of them


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## Nicklfire

I'd like to thank everyone for their posts, i just spent the last 30 minutes going through EVERY single post. Because of the amount of interest in this thread there are so many posts i will not be able to reply back to them 1 by 1.

Everyone here means so much to Us here at BCA and i'm glad this thread was brought up because we can never really know what's going on.

The biggest issue being the breeders is something us as a mod and admin team will have to discuss. The decisions we make will not necessary agree with everyone as everyone has their own opinion.. we make the best decisions for the community. For the time being i have reduced the breeder subforum to 5$ per month until we find an alternate solution or that IS the solution. I might even do donation based.. who knows. 

Besides the breeder talks (which is alot and appreciated) there was little things such as "how do i do a certain function" which is not the first time that someone has asked me so i think some tutorials would be in the works. Dave is great, im glad he could help you.. he's always been there for people. Some other things i read was regarding a dislike button..which closes the thread.. We do have a report button you can use if you feel the topic should be deleted.. but maybe having a option where if you get 10 dislikes it closes automatically.. then again there is error for abuse. 

Every post i read so if i did not comment does not mean i did not read it. Some great suggestions that i will surely come back and continue reading over and over. We are all here to better the forum.

One funny thing i read a couple times is that they feel this forum is very "classified directed" which i find a little funny because that has NEVER been our intention.. it was just something that grew on its own and became popular. Honestly i have never even looked in a classified section for over a year... and it keeps growing. The classified section is a HUGE part of this forum and attracting new members who find us through google. If we were to limit that to only a select people or take that free feature away.. (which i always want to keep free) i think our growth rate would slow down by 75%, and eventually we would lose memebers. In simple terms it's our bread and butter and for the most part you guys take care of it for us. I really do not care if people sign up.. and post a couple things classifieds... cause chances are they are the ones that bought your filter your just listed for sale. 

I'm very interested in bettering the forum and all suggestions are GREATLY appreciated, i appreciate all comments made about US the staff.. 

on a side note there have been about 4 donators sign up.. i assume because of this thread, so i appreciate the support from those people that find value in the forum.


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## neven

a long while back i recommended that Sticky topic to be made that links many useful posts that get buried and lost, i still think it would be an excellent topic, Call it "Pearls of Wisdom"

Simple format:
*General*
link1 - short explanations
link2 - short explanations
link3 - short explanations
...

*Planted tanks*
link1 - short explanations
link2 - short explanations
link3 - short explanations

*Marine*
link1 - short explanations
link2 - short explanations
link3 - short explanations

i remembered this because an excellent informative post was made today in regards to local hardwood leaves that can substitute almond leaves. I know this will likely get buried for a long time once it runs it course like so many other great topics have.


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## BCAquaria

Diztrbd1 said:


> You can make some of the people happy, most of the time. But you can't make all the people happy all the time! Unless there's money involved lol :bigsmile:
> Actually just wanted to say...Happy Late Birthday Clarence! seen it was Monday :bigsmile:


Ummmmmm whoa.....i know i purposely made sure it doesn't show on BCA cuz I don't want special priveldges. Thank you regardless. Just surprised you would know. lol


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## Claudia

BCAquaria said:


> Ummmmmm whoa.....i know i purposely made sure it doesn't show on BCA cuz I don't want special priveldges. Thank you regardless. Just surprised you would know. lol


You should know us better, we know everything...i heard the party on monday   lol Happy belated Bday :bigsmile:


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## gklaw

Jaguar said:


> I understand that sponsors and breeders are what keeps the fees paid, but us hobbyists are what really keeps the site afloat. Put them down at the bottom of the forum listings, not us.
> 
> I dunno, I would just like to see this site catered more to people who support the hobby and keep the exchange of information flowing.... not to the people who put the most money on the table.


Support means more than supplying the talk. I've been to some woodworking forum. The amount of of ad. on this forum is nooooowhere close. I have to look hard to find the discussions in some woodworking forums. Here, I don't even know the full list of sponsors. Most of us don't need to go there to know who they are any way. The banners actually make the site "cool"  Wish I know how to do that with my computer 

Did we ever complain about the amount of banners in a hockey games and the amount of commercials! Or for that matter of fact, the price of a hockey game. It's just a sport to promote unity of humanity.

Those who labour to better our lives deserve some rewards and those who benefit from having a better life should be wise enough to "support" that.

If everyone donate, we probably don't need the sponsors. Having said that, it is their way to say thanks for the business from the members or simple way to support the hobby. Of course, the consequence is more hobbyists and better business for them - they are in business to survive and to make a few $. Guess what, if business is better for them, we have better local stores to visit without having to rely on eBay for parts and cheaper or better goods. We should gracefully and thankfully accept their financial support and offer them some visibility.

Besides, more sponsors mean happier administrators. Guess what, happier administrators means happier forum


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

As both a long-time member and mod, I visit BCA a dozen times or more daily. Each time I click on both the "New Posts" and the "New Classifieds" buttons to check out the threads and posts. I have found that the comments about classifieds (FS) ads are far outnumbering the discussion posts to actually be in error. 

I have done the comparison several times daily for weeks now and I would ask other members to do the same. My latest comparison count (after 5 hours) is indicative of what I have found to be a trend:

New Posts = 19

New Classifieds = 13 in total (however 6 are either LF or FF posts)

Therefore, FS ads = 7

There are still lots of threads being started and kept going in the non-classifieds sections. I know that it seems like a lot of ads, but I would suggest that this is more perception than reality. It also indicates that most members are looking at the classifieds section to look for good deals or to sell/trade/give away stuff, so it's all good.

As a Mod, I would like to add my own thanks to all the BCA members who have helped keep this thread clean and productive, allowing everyone to feel free to post their opinions without fear of being "jumped" on or ridiculed. 

Up till now, I have refrained from posting on this thread because we (admin & mods) really want to know what the membership is thinking when it comes to issues affecting BCA and the future of this site.

My wife used to ask me all the time why I was so willing to spend so much time and effort moderating this fish site for free when I have such a busy work/family schedule. This community is why. Thanks to all of you who contribute to the knowledge and community-spirit that makes BCAquaria such a special place for all us addicts.

Peace and keep the comments rolling.

Anthony


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## crazy72

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> I have found that the comments about classifieds (FS) ads are far outnumbering the discussion posts to actually be in error.


Thanks Anthony. This is good to hear. Plus I agree that there's nothing wrong with a large classifieds section since it's easy to browse the non-classifieds separately. My comment earlier didn't reflect a worry about too many ads as much as a worry about too few non-claddifieds posts, which I have found (rightly or wrongly, and maybe it was just a seasonal thing) to have gone down a bit lately. As long as we have a decent level of activity in the non-classifieds, I know I'll keep visiting the forum.

And yes, I also agree with another comment made earlier, that if we want more discussion threads then let's all make an effort to start new ones and contribute!


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## BCAquaria

Keep the feedback coming. Shawn and I are learning. He's busy with his new family and I'm busy with 7 days of work so we don't catch everything right away. Believe me when I say we really try our best to keep people happy. It's not as easy as you think. Everyone thinks they're more right then the other. So we try our best. Not to make more money, but to endorse the hobby. I wish everyone had the same intent. The reason I started this thread without anyone's consent was to hear what members (new or old) had to say. Unbiased input. I may not be active but I've stayed true to my cause of trying to enrich/endorse the hobby. Which is why I'm reaching out to the BCA members for opinions. 

Again, I can't promise we can implement everyone's ideas but we're made aware. Our main goal for BCA is to endorse the hobby. So regardless I hope you as members stay active, don't take things we may do as personal attacks but as what the general consensus wants. And pleassssssssssse be respectful to one another regardless of whether you agree or not. There's no reason to not participate on BCA because ONE member upsets you. You can just ignore them. We're adults afterall. Members that threaten me about quitting BCA because I didn't ban another memeber get tiresome. Not because I don't agree with you, but because we have to stay neutral. Just try and think from our shoes. Everyone has their own opinions and we try and respect it. So please try and respect mine in trying to stay neutral. During the first 5 years I've spent ALL my time trying to please everyone on BCA. I've realized we can't keep everyone happy. If I could, believe me I really would regardless of the cost. 

I won't lie, in the beginning when I started the site I thought everything would be so trouble free. Thinking all fish keepers would have a mutual respect for one another. Sadly, reality of it isn't like that.


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## rich16

I visit BCAquaria multiple times daily. Mostly just lurking, and absorbing wisdom and knowledge from the community. I've been doing this fishy thing for a while, but there is still so much to learn, I'm always impressed by the tidbits and nuggets of knowledge I come away with from this community. The few folks I've met in person or have had PM conversations with have been great.

I may not post as much as I could, except when I feel that I have something solid to share or contribute to a discussion. I haven't really been in the position where I'm selling fry (yet - with Africans it should only be a matter of time... ), so I don't really have an informed opinion on the breeder v. hobbyist issue.

I do visit the classifieds daily, to see what's out there, and maybe add to my collection of misc aquarium stuff, but the joy I mostly get from this site is the ability to learn new things and read (if not always contribute to) interesting conversations and topics.

Enough rambling - great site, wonderful people, kudos to Sean and the rest of the admin / mods for the work they do. Don't try to make every single person happy...that just leads to drinking too much. 

Cheers, 
Rich


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## jobber

This forum is of great value . The people are primarily very respective of other's opinions. It's a very positive environment for the hobbyist.
That's why I donated. 

Will there be a Chistmas special for donation annual donation? Since the community has grown a bit these past few months


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## Tazzy_toon

I think BCA is great. Keep up the good work!!!

I know there are some minor glitches that need work, such as the being able to post pics to albums and how to classify "breeders" etc. But I find that the admin and mods are doing a wonderful job and always polite an professional to my reading.

I don't think I would have continued the hobby without this site. I was very overwhelmed when I first started and because of the people here, have been able to work through it and now have healthy stable tanks 

So Thanks


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## Diztrbd1

BCAquaria said:


> Ummmmmm whoa.....i know i purposely made sure it doesn't show on BCA cuz I don't want special priveldges. Thank you regardless. Just surprised you would know. lol


as Claudia said... "we know everything" or atleast we do, when it's on the calender and your profile lol ....tho oddly the year isn't listed lol :bigsmile:
Your welcome , hope it was a good one.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

So, just to confirm my earlier assertion about posting comparisons:

Overnight numbers when I clicked on the New Posts & New Classifieds buttons:

New (Discussion) Posts = 29 threads 

New Classifieds = 11 threads (but 2 are LF)

So FS threads = 9 threads

Cheers everybody:bigsmile:


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## roadrunner

I love this website. Thank you for all hard work and time everybody involved put in it.
I just remembered; I would like to see other topics under species, (Bettas, Killies). I'm a betta lover and I've never had killies but I would like to find out more. It would be nice if I could find all info organized in one spot and so I don't have to look for it all over.
I was originally researching topics about Bettas in the area when I "stumbled" across this website for the first time. (i think it was shortly before the website crashed and you had to start over; I don't remember if you had it before or not)


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## Jaguar

gklaw said:


> Support means more than supplying the talk. I've been to some woodworking forum. The amount of of ad. on this forum is nooooowhere close. I have to look hard to find the discussions in some woodworking forums. Here, I don't even know the full list of sponsors. Most of us don't need to go there to know who they are any way. The banners actually make the site "cool"  Wish I know how to do that with my computer
> 
> Did we ever complain about the amount of banners in a hockey games and the amount of commercials! Or for that matter of fact, the price of a hockey game. It's just a sport to promote unity of humanity.
> 
> Those who labour to better our lives deserve some rewards and those who benefit from having a better life should be wise enough to "support" that.
> 
> If everyone donate, we probably don't need the sponsors. Having said that, it is their way to say thanks for the business from the members or simple way to support the hobby. Of course, the consequence is more hobbyists and better business for them - they are in business to survive and to make a few $. Guess what, if business is better for them, we have better local stores to visit without having to rely on eBay for parts and cheaper or better goods. We should gracefully and thankfully accept their financial support and offer them some visibility.
> 
> Besides, more sponsors mean happier administrators. Guess what, happier administrators means happier forum


I understand where you are coming from, but I am also the administrator of a very popular pet forum and we do not take premium payments, donations, etc. from members, and the only sponsor/advertisement we have on the site is a very small banner at the top like BCA has. I do not make any profit whatsoever from my work on the site. Site hosting and domain fees are nowhere near as expensive as some might believe. That being said, most people don't like to pay the fees out of their pockets. I understand that. But it doesn't mean that we should have to look at a huge sponsor section and big nasty ads before we get to the real designated content of the site.

All I am really saying is the sponsor forum should not be fully expanded on the main list, nor should it be right near the top. It's discouraging to have to scroll through a page and a half distance of sponsors before you actually get to the true forum discussion. Aquarium Discussion is 3/4 of the way down the page. It should be nice and accessible right at the top.

If they asked for feedback and if you're just going to argue against it, why ask in the first place?


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## Aquaman

Well i don't know what the general feeling is for other members is ...
BUT 

I am as happy as a clam,happy as a clam,happy as a clam,I am.!!!
Other than scrolling down 30 feet to get to the forum!
The place rocks ...well mostly... sometimes the drama is tooo much and The my way or the high way attitudes that pop up now and then....Hey I get that way sometimes to but only when I am right :lol: other than that Its a great place....Getting a handle on the language and insinuations would be a good step.....
At least we don't have grammar police and spelling Nazi's ( no offence ) here.:bigsmile:
What about a member drive ......Maybe all the sponsors could put up info in their stores ( iamlaughinginside ) telling their customers they support BCA and put info up on joining etc.on their front counter.

I still want BUMPER STICKERS BTW....

YOU GUYS do a great job ! And who could ask for more ...considering the rate of pay you get ...you rock!


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## jobber

Jaguar said:


> I understand where you are coming from, but I am also the administrator of a very popular pet forum and we do not take premium payments, donations, etc. from members, and the only sponsor/advertisement we have on the site is a very small banner at the top like BCA has. I do not make any profit whatsoever from my work on the site. Site hosting and domain fees are nowhere near as expensive as some might believe. That being said, most people don't like to pay the fees out of their pockets. I understand that. But it doesn't mean that we should have to look at a huge sponsor section and big nasty ads before we get to the real designated content of the site.
> 
> All I am really saying is the sponsor forum should not be fully expanded on the main list, nor should it be right near the top. It's discouraging to have to scroll through a page and a half distance of sponsors before you actually get to the true forum discussion. Aquarium Discussion is 3/4 of the way down the page. It should be nice and accessible right at the top.
> 
> If they asked for feedback and if you're just going to argue against it, why ask in the first place?


You can personalize the main screen by collapsing the section/area for sponsors. On the right side of the section heading bar, click on the double arrows facing upwards.


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## Jaguar

jobber604 said:


> You can personalize the main screen by collapsing the section/area for sponsors. On the right side of the section heading bar, click on the double arrows facing upwards.


I know it's a vBulletin feature, but I clear my cache/cookies routinely, so it doesn't save through that, unfortunately. Maybe I can make some kind of exception for things related to BCA but that is currently out of my ability


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## poiuy704

Well my wife really hates this forum apparently it`s causing me to become obsessed with my fish, spend too much money, drive all over the lower mainland for that one fish, plant or other good deal I have to have. It has also caused me to develope a bad case of MTS that there seems to be no known cure for (not that I want one).

I think this is one of the best forums of any sort that I spend time on.

People here are willing to jump in and help others regardless of the questions asked. It`s one of the few places where you can ask a really basic question and not feel you are going to be ridiculed for not already knowing the answer. 

The mods do an excellent job maintaning the site and keeping it running smoothly, the ads that are on the site don`t get in the way of what your looking for, search features work really well. Overall just a really good site to hang out at.

One thing i would like to see is a sticky for each sponser with a link to their website and store info.

Keep up the good work guys!


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## jobber

Btw in addition to all the things I mention previous, I want to commend the Mods for the kaizen approach to this forum and keeping it continuously fresh.


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## effox

You always keep us on our toes Ming


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## jobber

Hey, that's why I visit this forum daily..and even hourly..to monitor those late night spammers as well as providing weather reports. Now we gotta find ways to ante up the number of donators.


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## BCAquaria

Jaguar said:


> If they asked for feedback and if you're just going to argue against it, why ask in the first place?


I don't recall arguing against your opinion. I don't even recall commenting. I might've even thanked you for your opinion earlier.

I'm just trying to get more feedback from members and not taking it personally. I can't say I agree with you, but maybe Shawn can look into some way for individuals to personalize it.

As for your comment on maintaining a forum. You're right it's not expensive(_shawn's input, shy under 700$ per year, dont run on typical shared hosting plans as the site cannot function_), but there is still a cost and most importantly time. I'm nowhere near retirement age and work 7 days a week. So any extra time I put into the site is my valuable "relaxing" time.

That being said what's the most expensive to us is spending money on giveaways. We've giving away tanks, halide fixtues, cannister filters, etc etc. When we had more time we had monthly giveaways, some donated, some not. Most the money goes to trying to endorse the site/hobby. So if we make more money, we end up giving the members BIGGER and BETTER prizes. So all in all I think it's a small trade off. BCA's main attraction is the classifieds. People come for deals, sponsors sign on to offer deals and interact with customers. Just the way it goes. I personally like it better this way. It's a good way for customers to interact online with store owners.

Just my thought on the matter.


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## Shell Dweller

Well here goes my 2 cents worth after reading every post. 

I joined BCA 1 1/2 years ago after learning about it from a sponsor who saw my ad on CL looking for shell dwellers. I am soooooo glad he pointed me in this direction. I have met so many friendly people, and have learned so much I figured the Donator fee was a small price to pay to support this fantastic site. I have had aquariums off and on since I was 10 years old and actually really wasnt very successful keeping any fish alive until I joined this site. I now have (around 800 gal) a dozen or so aquariums up and running smoothly, thanks to the information found on this site and help I have recieved off other members on the forum.

Why do I have so many tanks? Okay I confess, I'm a fishaholic. So many interesting fish to watch. My newest 6 species of killies. 3 or 4 new tanks set-up. 

Thanks to all the great members I have met or spoken to on the site, and special thanks to those responsible for the forum itself. 

I really like this members suggestion BTW.
2.) BCA needs monetary funding through sponsorship or through donation.
Solution: Provide incentives to increase donation; Allow regular users 1 post for sale items per month; Allow donators of $20+, 5 per month......

Thats all folks....


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## Ursus sapien

budahrox said:


> ... The double standard on bashing really bothers me as well. If you're a sponsor seems it's OK to bash but otherwise don't try it. ...
> Don


This is the biggest pink elephant in the room, and, if Clarence's request for feed-back is to be honestly responded to, it needs to be discussed.

_And I can't stress enough how much I was hoping someone else would follow up on it. _

This perception, accurate or not, is central to why so many members, myself included, feel disenfranchised from the forum.

An example: Sponsor "a" has had a lot to say about private breeders and home-based businesses, all of it negative. While not specifically named, the context of the post clearly refers to sponsor 'b' and 'c'.

Of course, other sponsors have expressed opinions on the general issue; and I agree that having and expressing an opinion is valid. However, repeated diatribes in multiple posts over a period of months is bullying.

All sponsors pay the same fees. They've put out the same hard earned money to promote their business to a receptive audience. It's grotesque to then have one slag (however generally) another... and get away with it.

Members are always being told that criticisms of sponsors should be made via PM to the offending sponsor. Perhaps sponsors could follow their own advice and not use the forum to beat up on their peers.


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## BCAquaria

Ursus> I can understand why you feel that way. Thing is I don't object with people voicing their opinions. The specific incident you brought up wasn't technically attacking a single person or store. From what I saw lead to a healthy debate with no feelings being hurt. Just a perspective on the hobby that some do and don't agree with. But when people start making threads about "X store sucks" and the whole thread is now just a targeted at one store and people jump on the bandwagon. There's no debate just plain hating. If someone was to make a post on why they feel Pet Stores should be shut down I wouldn't intervene provided it was kept clean. It's an opinion that's not targetting one person. Maybe a specific type of people, but not one person/store in particular.

As for the bullying portion of it, I was not really made aware (some of those posts were like essays). I kind of skimmed through it and didn't notice anything myself. The one thing about this is without people reporting it we can never tell until it's too late. At that point a fire has already brewed. All members have to do is hit the "REPORT POST" button and mods/admins get an email and one of us can at least start addressing the issue.

With all the verbal battles on BCA I can't win everyone's favour. If I delete all posts I feel are negative or vulgar, then people whine about oppression and freedom of speech. If I let things run wild people cry about being offended by someones opnion or we're not family oriented. If I let "breeders" sell free, ALOT of people exploit it and import fish and sell other stuff to make money while sponsors that keep us running will lose out. So we implement a charge to help balance out. Then some say it's too much, some say it's perfect. There's no perfect way I can keep everyone happy.

My personal opinion on what to do is let small scale breeders sell for free. But then impose a strict instant perma ban on those that breed for retail or import fish and resell without sponsorship. Frankly I do not care for those types on BCA. They exploit BCA for their personal gain and don't give back to us as a community.

Just my opinion on the two matters. 

Keep em coming guys. More ideas the better! Again, thanks for keeping it clean and not being afraid to voice your opinions.


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## BCAquaria

Is there anything else that's bugging anyone else? If there's something someone wants to say without feeling judged by your peers you can PM me and I can post it up without your name.

Otherwise, on a diff topic what do you feel we can do to improve the lurker/poster rate? What do you guys think we can do to bump marine activity? Any tools or fun gadgets we can add to enlighten your BCA experience?

I have a little bit more down time lately so I'd like to try and take some time and figure out BCA's issues. Once Holiday rush kicks in I'm sure I won't have as much time.


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## jobber

I'm loving this openness to improve this forum.

Polls and more polls...vote vote vote. To keep things interactive and see BCA trends.
Perhaps a dedicated folder to put all the Threads with polls together . I don't mind conjuring up daily(if i have time) to weekly polls.


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## TomC

BCAquaria said:


> Otherwise, on a diff topic what do you feel we can do to improve the lurker/poster rate?


 It may not be feasible as far as finding enough prizes, but keeping up to date with the monthly draw, instead of being sporadic would probably persuade more of the lurkers out into the open.


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## davefrombc

I guess you'd have to put me in the lurker category more than the poster because , although I check the form several times a day , most days, I seldom post unless I feel I can add something to a thread or help with a problem. I never did get into the habit of posting in forums I belong to just for the sake of posting and running up my post count. I really don't think you need to worry about the post rate because I suspect most members are in the same category that way as I am .

I usually check the chat room every evening. Sometimes there's some in it , but lately most often it is deserted. I'd like to see a lot more activity in it. Live chats are the quickest way to get to know other members and share interests . New check-ins to the chat may see two or three of us chatting, and although it may be on our fish , it could be almost anything being bantered about there .. Don't feel intimidated , say hi and join the chat . You can't meet others and become one of the regulars if you look in the room and run out without saying anything .. I promise , none of us in there bite and all our shots are up to date 

I really don't feel monthly draws or contests are necessary to keep interest in the forum up.. A random draw occasionally for active members would be ok, but I don't think it needs to be an organized every month thing , or require a minimum number of posts daily or monthly to qualify. I would consider a member active that only posts once a week in any section other than the FS part of the classifieds . Members that join just to sell some surplus or whatever and never participate beyond that are not active members to my way of thinking.


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## chimdon

BCAquaria said:


> Is there anything else that's bugging anyone else? If there's something someone wants to say without feeling judged by your peers you can PM me and I can post it up without your name.
> 
> Otherwise, on a diff topic what do you feel we can do to improve the lurker/poster rate? What do you guys think we can do to bump marine activity? Any tools or fun gadgets we can add to enlighten your BCA experience?
> 
> I have a little bit more down time lately so I'd like to try and take some time and figure out BCA's issues. Once Holiday rush kicks in I'm sure I won't have as much time.


I think it definitely helps that the contents of the Classified posts are restricted to only registered users. That was why I decided to register.

Even with a registered account I would have continued to lurk on the forum if it weren't for a question I didn't want to leave unanswered at the risk of losing shrimps. I used to frequent some larger forums in the past, but then had some bad experiences with users attacking one another. That's when I started to lurk instead of trying to be part of the community, but seeing the friendly and helpful responses to my thread along with other threads helped me reconsider posting again. This leads to my suggestion of creating a section specifically for Beginners where people new to this hobby can ask questions without possibly feeling intimated by those that are experienced. There might also be some knowledgeable members who are willing to create more guides (e.g., Cycling Process or FAQ) to add onto the ones that are already out there and have them stickied in the beginners section.

I don't think this would encourage people to register or post, but I think having an arcade would be something fun to add to the forum ^^


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## Acipenser

BCAquaria said:


> Is there anything else that's bugging anyone else? If there's something someone wants to say without feeling judged by your peers you can PM me and I can post it up without your name.
> 
> Otherwise, on a diff topic what do you feel we can do to improve the lurker/poster rate? What do you guys think we can do to bump marine activity? Any tools or fun gadgets we can add to enlighten your BCA experience?
> 
> I have a little bit more down time lately so I'd like to try and take some time and figure out BCA's issues. Once Holiday rush kicks in I'm sure I won't have as much time.


As far as marine goes perhaps we could do somthing similar to what was done on Canreef with the XX gallon nano build contest's they have run, the format could be followed for a planted tank set up as well ! I would be interested in a contest that set a budget and with in a certain time frame it could be alot of Fun !


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## FatKid

BCAquaria said:


> BCA's main attraction is the classifieds. People come for deals, sponsors sign on to offer deals and interact with customers.


This is the very reason I ended up on this forum. (Keep in mind, I had zero intentions on keeping fish) I was looking for a "thing" or pump to work my fountain I was building in my yard. Ended up finding an XP3 filter on google, and it brought me to this site. I signed up, contacted the member and drove out to Coquitlam to pick it up. The member brought me into the house, showed me his tanks and the bug was passed on. I frequent all the local stores and met soooo many great people. Some I frequent just to say hi or talk fish. And now 14 tanks later, I shut down 7 to finally settle into what I want to keep. (For the time being anyways.) lol

All classifieds posted on this site bring the opportunity to bring more people to the community via many ways. I have ran several sites on my own with forums and the works! Everyone wants as much as they can get, for as little as they need to put out. It's human nature. If the site admins were paid wages equivalent to market value, this site wouldn't be here. The generosity of all members on this site is outstanding and nice to be around. What goes around comes around.

This part of my post was more to say thank you to the admins and members of the forum for their time and input. Also for not picking on the fat kid! ;*) I have learned everything I know that is fish related to everyone on this forum. Thanks!


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## Diztrbd1

Just some idea's I picked up today.....
I think Marine activity would improve if it was was broken down into some sub-categories like:
Getting Started
Water Chemistry 
Marine Inverts
Corals	
Marine fish
ect..or something similar, as opposed to it all being in one place

Same with Fresh water chat, could be more user friendly if broken down to Tropical , Brackish & Coldwater having their own sections

under species I think it would be nice to have Betta's, Live bearers and Killifish & Discus sections. 

Chimdon suggested it & I also noticed on a bunch of other forums, have a "New To The Hobby" section that might be good for those new to the hobby ,that are a bit shy/afraid to post in the general sections, that may help them become more comfortable posting or asking questions.

Though this might fall into the DIY area. I also think would be very useful to have a "How To" section with simple guides for stuff like filter cleaning, water changes and such.
Or I guess they could be sticky's in the beginner section as chimdon also suggested

Also I think more contests would be good, even if it's just small prizes ....everyone loves a contest. Maybe mix it up with monthly draws, photo contest, find a picture hidden in a thread ect.... 

I personally feel this is one of the best forums out there. Great members and lots of knowledge. We are lacking some features and tools ,that other forums offer like fish and plant profiles, tank calculators and such. But all in all it's a great forum that I am sure in due time, will be the "all in one" aquarium forum 
Anyway, just some thoughts and suggestions.


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## neven

another recommendation i would have in regards to the chat room, members in there must refrain from cheering for the Albertan or Boston Hockey teams


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## Dosan

I am a lurker, and I apologize  I have received some much needed emergency help and gained a vast amount of knowledge from many different members the past couple of years and all were sincere and genuine about it. No ulterior motives, just a pure love for the hobby. This is what makes BCA a great site for me to be able to wind down after a busy day and just read and relax hearing about other peoples fishy stories. Thank you all who contribute whether it be with time or in monetary terms and in some cases both. I for one greatly appreciate the effort made and will try to be a better BCA member. Luis


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## FishFreaks

i joined this forum because i love keeping fish and have since i was 4 or 5. i find their are many friendly ppl on here, and believe the site is doing a great job so far.....however i do agree with ursus sapien about the breeder section. i would also like to see more about marine, having never tried and wanting to do a small setup i would like to see more info on setup, water chem, etc. like diztrb1 said
cheers
kevin


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## Tarobot

I've been on this forum for approximately a year now. I was introduced by my friend who's stingray I killed even before he went on his vacation. I've purchased and sold equipment and livestock from sponsors such as CanadianAquatics and several other members. To be honest I had no idea there was a maximum post of two when selling. I have always managed to put all equipment I wanted to sell in one post and livestock (usually shrimp) in another and closed them accordingly afterwards. I think the members here are great, I'm gotten lots of useful advice via timely responses (usually from effox) and free plants, equipments and livestock from members as well.

After hanging around online for a year I brought a friend into the shrimp hobby and now we buy BubbleTea to hang out @ Jiang604's secret soon to be Ebi-Ken Club House. The only improvement that I would suggest is something like Theplantedtank.net's Tank Browsing section where members could upload pictures of all of their tanks and is easily accessible instead of clicking into each Journal thread and trying to find the page where pictures were last updated. I find that function to be extremely helpful and has given me aquascaping ideas.


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## neven

to be honest i find the tank browser on tpt to be a bit clunky and takes away activity from the actual forums, as it eliminates the story of the tank


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## Nicole

*# of posts needed before posting in classifieds*

I remember a month ago when I visited some of the other aquarium forums. Before you can post in the Classifieds section, you need to have at least 3 or 5 posts anywhere else on the forum. This is to promote the forum as a helpful and educational learning place, and to minimize the purpose of creating an account just to buy/sell.

Many members have zero posts, avoid reading the forum rules, and are just here to post an ad which the mods or other members will to end up telling them "please put a FS: in your title, etc..".

I think this would help new members see that BCA is really a community filled with resources and knowledgeable people, and not just a place to go to when you're having trouble selling something on Craigslist so you look for another classifieds site and arrive here.

Not to take away from the fact that BCA has an awesome Classifieds section, but when posts are made such as answering or asking a question, it is like giving back to the community. Many new members will have the same question, or current members will learn something new. Helping others out and especially people who are new to the hobby just makes this hobby a lot more fun and rewarding.

Just my 2cents before I head off for an exam!!


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## Immus21

Maybe it could be made so a new member would post in the "Introduction area" and "How you found BCA" thread before posting to classifieds???


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## Nicole

Immus21 said:


> Maybe it could be made so a new member would post in the "Introduction area" and "How you found BCA" thread before posting to classifieds???


I always like it when a member posts in the introduction area that they are new to the hobby, and hoping to learn a thing or two here..they don't know what they got themselves into haha. I remember the first time I actually bothered going through the threads..that was a veryyyy longgggg night of light bulbs going off in my head.


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## Diztrbd1

Nicole I have moved the post from you recent thread to this thread as I feel it fits best here. It was previously mentioned here with a couple comments about it. Plus this thread can be revived as it's for these kinds of suggestions. While I totaqlly agree with most of your suggestions, there are alot of people who do not post for many reasons whether they are just shy or afraid or whatever & making people have to post will most likely discourage them from being a active part of this community. Sometimes best to let them come out when they feel comfortable. Even I was a lurker for a long time. Now look at me , cant shut me up half the time lol and in the top 3 post count at that lol
As for the "Many members have zero posts, avoid reading the forum rules, and are just here to post an ad which the mods or other members will to end up telling them "please put a FS: in your title, etc..".
Even if you message people with the links, they are not forced to read them and most won't anyway. There are members with 500+ post that still haven't read the site rules or classified rules. As a mod it is frustrating, especially when a person post a classified ad and right at the top of that list it clearly says "*****read before posting here******" and they just skip right past that and go straight to "post new thread". What can we do to change that , I don't know. But atleast you put it out there for some suggestions so we will see.


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## Nicole

Thanks John. I thought I was in trouble and my thread got deleted heh


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## Diztrbd1

lol no , you have some good points & suggestions and worth keeping around, just felt they fit better with this thread. Thanks for taking the time to bring them to light.


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## arash53

Photo contests please


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## smash

Correct me if I'm wrong but, does anyone get the feeling that BCA isn't really growing as a community but instead it's slowly turning into a more classifieds orientated forum?

Reason why I say this is because lately I've seen a lot of new members coming here with 1 post and going straight to the classifieds section trying to sell off their stuff. Also, it seems that there have been a lot of members, old and new, selling their stuff away because they're "leaving" the hobby. Not saying that only the new members are frequenting the classifieds section more often but I've seen older members too with 200+ posts of which around 80% are classifieds posts.

I've been to other forums and the one thing that's different (in my opinion) from them and BCA is that there are members out there that truly are in the hobby to learn how to grow fish/plants not for the purpose of selling them but to better the hobby.


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## Diztrbd1

I think the thing with the classifieds is that this forum is based locally as is most of it members, unlike alot of other forums that have members from everywhere around the world. Therefore the classifieds are quite active here for that reason. I believe this site grows as a community on a daily basis. The database on topics is quite large now so alot of people find the info they need without having to ask as many questions is probably why it seems more classifieds are at the top. Personally I would rather see alot more topics at the top but the classifieds are essential to many people here as there are alot of great deals here. I'd rather get my aquarium/fish related stuff though here as opposed to craigslist, so I really don't mind the amount of classifieds myself. Also from what I have seen on other forums(including local based ones) I have visited are far less active than this one, even if you took the classifieds out. Would you rather miss a good deal because it was on CL instead of here? Just my thoughts.


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## neven

trust me when i say this, it is not as bad as it used to be. The classifieds used to be mixed with the discussion topics for new posts, and for a while, it would be 4 pages of new posts, 2 1/2 of them ad's. While the activity has dropped, and people are leaving the hobby, many are joining aswell. The recession is ending locally though, which means there will be a resurgence. Would be nice for BCAquaria to atleast provide a sponsor kit a year to those shops to help increase traffic, kinda like a poster, "Have Questions? Ask us at BCAquaria.com in our sponsor section!" and a box of cards with the same sort of thing. This way its advertisement for the forum, and a means for customer service for the sponsor, whether its themselves or members as usual stepping up to the plate.

Another idea is bumper stickers (or those plastic window decals that cling) and stickers available for purchase. Shipping is the cost of a stamp to members Remember that these sort of responsibilities do not need to fall onto BCAquaria or Nicklfire, other mods can help out with processing and handling.


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## Aquaman

neven said:


> trust me when i say this, it is not as bad as it used to be..........
> 
> *Another idea is bumper stickers (or those plastic window decals that cling) and stickers available for purchase. * Shipping is the cost of a stamp to members Remember that these sort of responsibilities do not need to fall onto BCAquaria or Nicklfire, other mods can help out with processing and handling.


Been suggesting that for ages.......bumper stickers would bring people already into fish to BCA hundreds of people would be seeing that cool logo with the catchy phrase ,every day.For every member here there are at least 50 FISH keepers out there that have never heard of BCA......NOT MANY BUISNESSES would pass up on a deal that had the chance To sell someone a sticker that advertises their business......to me it seems like a win win situation. Just like having sponsorships available for members at The LFS that sponser us here.....''SIGN UP TODAY AND RECIEVE 50 % off on your BCA decal.......WANT NEW MEMBERS....get BCAquaria's name out there.


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## Elle

> Also, it seems that there have been a lot of members, old and new, selling their stuff away because they're "leaving" the hobby.


This hobby is like a revolving door...people come in and out all the time (often more than once)and in the end it seems the population stays pretty stable. :bigsmile:

My biggest beef is with the actual behavior of people in some of the recent threads...come on, be polite!

I liked the BCA T-shirt idea, and maybe an FAQ forum with stickies only for the most commonly asked hobby questions? I know a lot of frequently asked stuff is pinned, but having one forum for it might be helpful. Right now you need to dig for some of the info.


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