# Altum excess slime coat



## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

As the title states I am having some problems with my Altums. I got 4 of them from Charles about a month ago. They started off doing well eating blood worms then switched over to a beef heart mixture I bought from another member. After 2 weeks of having them I noticed that one of them had what appeared to be excess slime coat. Its condition quickly degraded and a week later it passed. The other 3 showed no signs of this ailment. I treated the remaining 3 with jungle labs parasite meds soaked into their food for a week which they gobbled up with their regular vigour. Now 2 of my other altums are starting to show the same signs. I dosed with melafix and turned off my uv sterilizer today. The tank is a 120g with rummy nose, cories, apistos, blue rams and otos. 
Parameters
80F
6PH
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
20 nitrate
20> GH/KH

What else should I do? None of the other fish are showing symptoms. 
Help would be greatly appreciated.


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## hlee72ca (Jun 29, 2010)

quarintine and look up potassium permanganate as a dip. Many people have used it to treat discus when they have excess slime. good luck.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Could it be the food as you started notice the problem after you switch the food.

Before you use potassium permanganate, be very careful with this stuff. Read up on it before you use it.


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. I will look up this mixture. I also started soaking their food in garlic as I read it increases their immune systems.


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## chizzow (Apr 21, 2010)

sounds like a bacterial infection, add some salt to your tank.


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

chizzow said:


> sounds like a bacterial infection, add some salt to your tank.


Use salt with the melafix? Table salt? Thanks for the tip. Will the salt harm my plants?


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## chizzow (Apr 21, 2010)

If your using melafix, make sure you aerate your water as it has always caused my high temp fish (discus, altums) to gasp. Use natural sea salt, not table salt. Personally, I've never had an issue with salt killing my plants even in my past high tech planted setups. Given your circumstances, I think you would rather lose a few plants than your altums. 

How often are you doing your water changes? also crank up the heat! I use to keep my altums around 86F.


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

chizzow said:


> If your using melafix, make sure you aerate your water as it has always caused my high temp fish (discus, altums) to gasp. Use natural sea salt, not table salt. Personally, I've never had an issue with salt killing my plants even in my past high tech planted setups. Given your circumstances, I think you would rather lose a few plants than your altums.
> 
> How often are you doing your water changes? also crank up the heat! I use to keep my altums around 86F.


I do bi weekly 35% water changes. There is plenty of surface agitation from my 2 xp3 spray bars. I also have to bubble bars in there. I read somewhere that high temperatures can speed up the growth of bacteria and this would not be a good thing if this is in fact my problem. I would like to try the salt. How much do I add per gallon? Is this a one time thing? Thanks for your time.


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## chizzow (Apr 21, 2010)

1tbsp for every 10 gallons should do it and maintain that dose. In other words, replace what you take out after water changes.

I would personally increase the temperature, but its your decision. Good luck!


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## Chappy (Apr 21, 2010)

I have to agree with the increased temp although seems counter productive with the bacteria. Salt is a good thing for the altums right now, don't worry about the plants or other fish. Also, if you're going to increase the temp, you should add an airstone or two to make sure the tank has increased oxygen to handle the higher temperature. One last bit of advise - they really need as much fresh water as you can give them. I don't suggest doing a 90% w/c, but I do suggest doing smaller ones more often. Don't forget to top up the salt when you do a w/c. Hope this helps - altums are beautiful fish. I hope you can save them.
Shelley


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

-N/A- said:


> I have to agree with the increased temp although seems counter productive with the bacteria. Salt is a good thing for the altums right now, don't worry about the plants or other fish. Also, if you're going to increase the temp, you should add an airstone or two to make sure the tank has increased oxygen to handle the higher temperature. One last bit of advise - they really need as much fresh water as you can give them. I don't suggest doing a 90% w/c, but I do suggest doing smaller ones more often. Don't forget to top up the salt when you do a w/c. Hope this helps - altums are beautiful fish. I hope you can save them.
> Shelley


Do you think the water changes 2 times a week is not enough? Should my nitrates be lower than 20?

I will add the salt today. The fish are still looking good and healthy. I just want to get on top of this before it gets worse.


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## Chappy (Apr 21, 2010)

Unfortunately you are asking someone who does 50-60% daily water changes on a 90 gallon tank filled with 14 mostly wild discus!! But even with that, when my fish don't look "right", I always head for the water first. I can't tell you the last time I tested my water - I must have a dozen kits; I'm more than happy to test OTHER people's water, but I very seldom check my own. I watch the fish, keep up with my water changes and I add salt to the tank as a preventative measure - although a trace amount. Also have a look at your filter. Even if you've recently cleaned it, it's still worth having a look. It may be a lot dirtier than you expected and could be having an affect on your water that your tests won't pick up. One other thing you need to remember is if your altums are shedding their slime coats, that can and does stick right to the sides of the tank. Once it's there, all kinds of other bacteria will see it as a free meal and then things will REALLY get nasty. Make sure you wash down the inside walls of your tank at least once a week - more often if you can. If you are asking me my advise on your waterchanges, I would suggest every second or third day doing 20-25%, but that is just my opinion, based on my experience and my fish.


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## Chappy (Apr 21, 2010)

One last thing, 80 degrees is pretty chilly for an altum. If you are able to increase the temp to 84-86 this will help in a lot of ways, but it will most noticeably be seen in increasing their metabolism which you'll see as an increase in appetite which would be very good for them right now. But as mentioned before, if you increase the temp, you'll be decreasing the oxygen so you'll have to add airstones or something like it.


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

-N/A- said:


> One last thing, 80 degrees is pretty chilly for an altum. If you are able to increase the temp to 84-86 this will help in a lot of ways, but it will most noticeably be seen in increasing their metabolism which you'll see as an increase in appetite which would be very good for them right now. But as mentioned before, if you increase the temp, you'll be decreasing the oxygen so you'll have to add airstones or something like it.


I have added the salt and will try upping the temp. I would think it was a water quality issue if my other fish were showing signs but my rummy nose are as bright as ever and my dwarf cichlids are showing nice colours as well. I think if things get worse in the next few days I will have to try something else. Thanks for the advice. I just checked my nitrates and they were down to 10. Probably from the water change I did yesterday before adding melafix. Thanks again.


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## chizzow (Apr 21, 2010)

Especially if your feeding meaty foods, your water parameters can decrease rapidly. As previously stated, keep up with large amounts of water changes, crank the heat and don't overfeed. Instead of feeding one large meal, feed multiple smaller meals per day.










Altums are awesome, i would love to keep them again someday.


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

I appreciate all the help. Thats a gorgeous tank chizzow.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

if anyone can help you, chizzow (Danny) can. He has kept altum for some time. Has quite good on hand knownledge on them.


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks again for all the help. I have taken all of your advice. If this doesn't right things for me is there any last measures I could try? Some other mess I should have on hand just in case?


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

I tried a 20 minute salt bath. I used 45ml of salt in half a gallon. I am ready to try some more drastic measures if anyone else has any ideas. Thanks.


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## hlee72ca (Jun 29, 2010)

Potassium Permanganate bath. I have never lost a fish, it will oxidize fish slime, kill fungus, kill external parasites, Columnaris, you just have to make the solution the right color for the length of the dip. ie weaker solution, longer dip, and vice versa. Other than that you can try maracyn II. Good luck and hopefully its not to late.


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## Bizbomb (Apr 21, 2010)

hlee72ca said:


> Potassium Permanganate bath. I have never lost a fish, it will oxidize fish slime, kill fungus, kill external parasites, Columnaris, you just have to make the solution the right color for the length of the dip. ie weaker solution, longer dip, and vice versa. Other than that you can try maracyn II. Good luck and hopefully its not to late.


where do I get it? lfs?


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## hlee72ca (Jun 29, 2010)

I had a friend who is a pharmacist and I purchased through him, also bought some metronidazole which is good for internal parasites. People meds which can be used for fish at a fraction of the price of lfs meds, same ingredients. Try a pharmacy is the short answer. My medicine cabinet contains potassium permanganate, metronidazole, prazipro, salt. That usually covers most illnesses.


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