# fading oscars



## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

hey folks my 2 black tiger oscars keep fading to almost grey they used to be so black. there's 4 of them in total at 5 inches in a 90gal tank with 2 big logs and a little pleco. i run a circulating water change for about 4 hours every 4 days so the waters so damn clean. i feed them a huge variety of grub from omega colour enhancing pellets to mysis shrimp to bloodworms to baby convicts. i have no idea what i'm doing wrong here. is it maybe that i interact with them less now than before? cause they seem pissy with me and hide when i walk up to them, and they used to get right up in my face. any insight from the pro's?


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

do a water parameter test.


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

I think you should be running continuous filtering on that tank.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

It is a great idea for having 4 oscars in a 90g.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

i now have 2 fluval 305s hooked up to it. water test was fine. water parameters always fluxuate between water changes, especially if i'm at it every 4 days. but nothing out of the ordinary.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

Did you actually do a test? What are the reading?
For your tank and stocks, even 2 405 wont be enough. How can water parameter changes goes up and down between water changes?
I am just trying help.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

wow. how do i close this? i've had tanks since i was twelve and people are questioning whether i can put water in a test tube. i will just get better filtration.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

it is not like that. Better filtration doesn't mean better water. I am just trying to figure out what is wrong with the fish. Most people say their water are fine but never have done a test.


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## mdwflyer (Jan 11, 2011)

It really isn't a personal attack, it's the better part of impossible to troubleshoot a problem with no water parameters.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

mdwflyer said:


> It really isn't a personal attack, it's the better part of impossible to troubleshoot a problem with no water parameters.


Right. It's easier to make some sort of educated guess if there are pictures, a case history, measured parameters (GH, KH, Temp, pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at least). What I am confused on from the first post is whether you have 4 x 5" fish, or 4 fish totalling 5" in a 90 gallon, meaning they are 1.25" each.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

well i'm pretty sure its the ammonia. i can see the foam. i can't even believe it i just did my water change yesterday. the ammonia rises for 2 days the day after my water change and then 2 days after that i do another water change. i refuse to add chemicals to my tank cause in reality these fish don't get chemicals in the river either. so i should be changing the way i do my water changes. more often? less often? i have a hose going in and a hose going out for 4 hours every 4 days. this new log in the tank will definitely affect water parameters so i'll be checking it each day.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

to 2wheels: i have 4 tiger oscars that are 5 inches each sorry so a total of 20 inches in a 90gallon tank that is 48inches long and 18inches wide.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Maybe I missed something here. Why would you think it's ammonia if the water tests were "fine"? And why would foam indicate ammonia?


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

because after every water change my ammonia goes way up. so i said it was nothing out of the ordinary. because this happens every time.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

That may be the norm for that tank, but it's not normal. A properly functioning bio system in the tank should register zero ammonia all the time. It should be converted to nitrite then nitrate so that your nitrates should rise between water changes. Readable ammonia indicates:
a) your tank is not cycled, or something disrupted the cycle
b) the bioload in the tank exceeds the bio media's ability to convert ammonia to nitrate.

Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all toxins, with ammonia being the most lethal and nitrate being the least. So I guess in a way you're right, it's the ammonia, but once again, that's not normal and is extremely harmful to the fish.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

foam is not an indication of anmonia. It is best to do a water parameter test. Test kit is not expensive and you can use it for many times. 

With the amount of fish in your tank, you need something like 15 times GPH turn over rate (if you have a 90g tank, you want something around 1350 gph). And even at that, you need to have a huge area to keep an insane amount of bio-media for bacteria as you have 4 x 5" oscar; not to mention a pleco (I assume it is a common). 2 305 fluval has together 6 little trays of space for bio. I don't think it is enough. Oscar is just a bio-load nightmare; and you have 4.

It seems like your tank hasn't been cycled completely as like you said, you think it is anmonia.

It is best to get a kit, test out what Gary has stated; ph, anmonia, nitrite, nitrate, gh, and kh. Give us a reading and we can go from there.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

i have a few big master test kits here the 30 dollar ones that do high ph, low ph, ammonia, hardness, nitrites. i did test my water yesterday and the ammonia was way high. its always high for 2 days after my water changes. in between, the nitrites go up a little then back down, while the nitrates go up, then back down. i am VERY aware now of how dirty these fish really are, and to get them to thrive, you need spring water 24/7. i either need a tank that's 6feet by 2feet, with loads of filtration, or i need to let go of 2 of these fish. the pleco is a common, about 4 inches, but they grow fast and poop like crazy too. i will test my water today and post all the results on this thread. keep in mind it is 2 days after the water change, and in 2 days i will be doing another one. thanks thus far people.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

If the Ammonia levels are reading high I'd suggest performing a water change immediately. Like Wheels said ammonia is the most toxic chemical in the cycle process to fish. Your fish may suffer damage or even die in the 2 days between water changes. I'd be running at least two XP3s on this tank, XP4s would be even better with your current stock. You may be able to find a used filter with media and live B. bacteria already. Goodluck.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

it is just unbelievable what a load oscars can put on a tank system. i once had 6 red devils at 6 inches in this same tank, and the water was waaay cleaner. with more fish. mind you these oscars are pigs, they eat way more than those amphilophus did. i will do water changes every day then until i get better filtration. it really takes nothing cause i can sit on my butt while it cycles. one hose in, one hose out, turn the water on. also really thinking of parting with the albinos i like the black ones more, my albinos don't come out much cause the black ones run the tank. that should help too. by the way, today my oscars look great.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

rockybalboa said:


> it is just unbelievable what a load oscars can put on a tank system. i once had 6 red devils at 6 inches in this same tank, and the water was waaay cleaner. with more fish. mind you these oscars are pigs, they eat way more than those amphilophus did. i will do water changes every day then until i get better filtration. it really takes nothing cause i can sit on my butt while it cycles. one hose in, one hose out, turn the water on. also really thinking of parting with the albinos i like the black ones more, my albinos don't come out much cause the black ones run the tank. that should help too. by the way, today my oscars look great.


Good plan. I'm sure they'd be very happy with a big water change everyday! Even with proper filtration 4 x full grown Oscars in a 90G is very cramped, probably a good idea to thin the herd out sooner than later. I hope you can find a couple suitable filters soon, keep checking the equipment classifieds. GL again.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

If you see anmonia in there, what you can do is wait for your tank to cycle. If you have anmonia remover, dont use them. It is strange to have your anmonia goes up after a water change. If anything, it should be down. Just keep doing your water change till you show no anmonia and no nitrite. Nitrate will go up, that is normal. Perhaps you don't have enough bio-material for your bacteria to grow on.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

k thanks charles. you're good.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

so i did a water change this morning to get rid of the foam. i just did a water parameter test. here are the results:
PH low = 7.4
PH high = 7.6
GH (general hardness) = i added 2 drops, so 40ppm or 40mg/L
KH (carbonates) = i added 10 drops, so 100ppm or 100mg/L
NH (ammonia) = 0.6
NO2 (nitrites) = 0.1


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm no expert but those readings look like an uncycled tank. Without nitrifying bacteria in sufficient quantity, ammonia will just build up. I think some nitrites is a good sign as the cycle is beginning. Once you see nitrates building up that's he next good sign.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Are you cleaning the filters and all the bio media in them completely? How long has this setup been going? Even with this kind of load you shouldn't have an ammonia reading right after the water change unless the ammonia was very high, or you changed very little water.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

I think the filters were only added the other day, so they are probably still cycling. I don't understand either why the ammonia levels would be so high directly after a waterchange. Maybe you should test your tap water?


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

well the reading for the ammonia was hard. the water was so clear, but this was the lightest colour on the chart, the rest were darker. i did it again and ended up with 0, holding the tube under the light. ya this tank barely cycles, cause i feel the need to do so many water changes. every 4 days i run a hose for 4 hours, i'd say it does a 100% water change. i clean my filter and media once a month, but without doing a water change. this tank has been setup in its spot for about 2 years now. so how do i cycle my tank as it is with its current stock? as of now, by the time my tank cycles, its already time for a water change cause the water starts to smell after 4 days, which is why i do it every 4 days.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

ya the 305 i added was from a friend he got an fx5 yesterday he unhooked his 305 and gave it to me clean. the other 305 was cleaned about 3 weeks ago.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

"Water so damn clean" may not be so good given that beneficial bacteria good for the bio filtration system can't stabilize.

"every water change my ammonia goes way up. so i said it was nothing out of the ordinary. because this happens every time." Ammonia should never go way up after water change unless the new water isn't treated. If it happens every time, it puts the fish at harm thus not wanting to come out and greet you as they're probably pissy at you.

"i run a circulating water change for about 4 hours every 4 days so the waters so damn clean" You're doing 100%+ water changes every 4 days.

with the limited information given, looking at the paramters and agreeing with tony. seems the tank never is cycled properly. with the number of water changes and the amount of water changed, not sure water conditioners are added or seachem stability dosed. lets me deduce that the biological filtration hasnt really stabilized or have been knocked off track at the moment with the frequency of big water changes. here are other observations:

-each new water change kills off beneficial bacteria if water from the tap isn't treated
-its rained the pass week so municipal public works may have treated water with more chlorine; take a whif from the water out of the tap...smells chlorinated to me just now.
-not enough bacteria seeding or stabilized bio filtration system in place
-the killing off of beneficial bacteria is causing spikes of ammonia after frequent said water changes
-best to wait a bit to do water test after water changes especially if you've dosed seachem prime
-seachem prime helps neutralizes chlorine but if you're not treating the new water that may be an contributing factor to skittish fish
-when the chlorine releases into the air from the new water in the tank, it also produces an ammonia by product; this by-product trace is probably what the results are for your water parameter test.

there's been tons of similar situations by other hobbyists that have done assive water changes to find traces of ammonia. just ensure to have a well stabilized bio filtration system amd properly treat water from the tap..

do not overlook or take short cuts for these simple procedures if you want happy and healthy fish. you have a big tank, seems all you need is filtration with good bio media and perhaps a sponge filter as well as treating new water.

Suggestions:
-Good that you've added the filters
-Seed the tank with beneficial bacteria
-let your tank cycle
-do frequent small water changes better than a huge water change at any given time if you're not going to treat the new tap water
-chuck a few sturdy and tough nitrate soaking plants into the tank

good luck. wasnt going to reply to alrwady given suggestions let alone typing it all out on my phone.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Interestingly enough I find that cycling using Stability works as advertised and is dead easy. Just following instructions closely. Might be a good option to get your cycle set up.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

thank you jobberz. thanks everyone. quite a thread this has turned into. we are here for eachother, and for our fish. i will do smaller water changes say every 2 days and see what that brings. i could imagine being a fish in a tank losing all of its water every 2 days and then getting dumped with pure tap water. it would create alot of stress, which also releases harmful chemicals into the water. test the tapwater in the sink before running the hose, see whether or not i should be adding anything. right now my fish look awesome they're bright and they have their fins out even though it seems they shouldn't be. they're all following my finger at the glass. i am gonna do what it takes for these fish, because appreciation from an oscar says alot. i will get them a 6ft by 2ft tank this year. if anything turns out bad i will post another reply.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

No problems. Everyone is genuinely here to help you succeed and optimize your hobby experience. We all want to hear and want each other's tanks to do well as well as having healthy fish. This is what this forum is all about. i think overall is just to have an open mind to what has work for others and tweak it to how it'll work for you. Saves each of us and more so, newbies, from wasting money on new fish or equipment. There's always someone who's gone through the trial and error process; it'd be a waste for everyone to go through the same process. I think what you typed out certainly gives me the impression you've got the concept right on track. Fish wants stability and not fluctuation water parameters.

Hope the info will help you figure out what you need to get your oscars back bickering with each other and staring fiercely at you upon feeding time.


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## Yan7gin (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm pretty sure your oscar will like a bigger tank. I had 5 oscar in a 240 gal and it was really messy. Now i do keep 3 full grow with a rtc in my 240 and i used 40 gal of bio ball as wet/dry, refurgium sump with 2900 gph pump and a fx5 and i need to do at lease 25% water change once week. Oscar are sloppy eater so they need a really good filtration system.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

so i moved those logs around this morning to offer more shade and kept the light off. they colour up amazing. they're all paceing back and forth together with their tails wagging. i went to feed them and one of them jumped straight up out of the water and bit the can, he hit it pretty hard i was holding it, really caught me by surprise i ended up picking up pellets off the floor. so i'm pretty sure i want to darken up the tank without having to turn the light off, so i can still watch them. a dimmer light would be great, and for sure a darker lid or means of covering the top. tinted glass maybe. i think today my oscars are looking and acting like oscars. thanks y'all.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

ha figured someone may have replied on behalf of my oscar attack this morning. they're still doing great. only i have to keep the light off, they fade when i turn it on.


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

Try a blue or red light to see if they are still nervous and not colouring up.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

so i haven't done a water change since sunday morning. i did a water parameter test. here are the results:
PH low - 7.4
PH high - 7.4
GH (general hardness) - added 2 drops, so 40mg/L or 40ppm
KH (carbonates) - added 11 drops, so 110mg/L or 110ppm
NH (ammonia) - ZERO!!!
N02 (nitrites) - 0.1
there you have it and here are pics of the 4 oscars.















please leave comments.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

your tank is almost done cycling. what is your nitrate?


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

just my 2 cents but the continuous w.c. you talking about is too much new water probley killing live bacteria. are you filling and draining continuous for a long period of time? I think just a 50 percent is plenty


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

ya dino before this thread i was doing a 4 hour water cycle every 4 days. so i'd say a 100% water change every 4 days. i'm gonna cut that in half, or do more frequent and smaller water changes instead.
and charles i have to grab a nitrate test i don't know my nitrates yet.


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## rockybalboa (Aug 25, 2012)

2 of the oscars are gone that should help tons


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Good luck,sounds like you got it


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