# Bacteria Inbalance.



## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

How does this happen??
How do you fix it?

Does Anyone recommend using a "bacteria booster"???

Pretty much my tank has gone cloudy over the past week. 

I want to know some more details on how to fix it & to prevent it.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

If it's a bacteria bloom , just do a substrate cleaning to remove excess food feeding the bacteria and do a water change .. Forget the "bacterial boosters" for the tank, and for that matter, for any new setups. I don't think they do much more than lighten your wallet a little.
Usually a bacteria bloom comes from over feeding, or from a fish death unnoticed and decaying in a hidden spot. Once whatever is feeding the bacteria is removed the bloom will end.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Was there some change in the tank? This is usually how it happens. Nutrient load or bacteria load changed. Some examples are:

1. Excessive feeding (live food rotting perhaps)
2. Filter material was cleaned with tap water, killing a portion or all of the bacteria.
3. Tank was medicated (something that kills the bacteria), so same as 2.
4. Substrate was changed totally, so some of the bacteria colony was transported out.
5. Increase in fish load (added new fish).

You can do some water changed, limit feeding, but really all you need to do is monitor the ammonia and your fish behaviour until the bacteria colony catches up.

Forgot to add, if this is a new setup, get some filter materials from an established tank, that will go a long way to getting things in balance quicker.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

ok well as most of u know, Lisa & I did a substrate change like a month ago now. It was clear as day for many weeks. As for excessive feeding, i try very hard not to. Fed twice a day with nothing left behind. Havn't added lots of fish. Actually have been getting rid of fish lately. I did a water change last night & will do another again tonight. How long does it usually take to clear?? Oh and nobody has died either.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you measured ammonia or nitrite? If there is no measurable ammonia, I would say a few days, but if there is, it could be a couple of weeks.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

i dont think there is. Lisa did a test yesterday and she didnt see anything.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Bacterial blooms are generally caused by a physical disruption of the biological filter or medication causing the bacteria to de-colonize. Bacterial supplements do work depending on the product but if it is a bacterial bloom, adding a booster will make it worse.
I would recommend checking the buffering system for hardness levels and small water changes. It could be related to the feeding, particularly if we are talking your Mbu tank here. Particularly if you are feeding market type shrimp etc.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

market shrimp..so thats the problem..because yes i do feed him that.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I've noticed that the shrimps will shred up, leaving pieces everywhere. That could definitely be the problem (I feed my Hypans prawns once in a while).


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

or are talking market prawns...???10.99 a bag lol


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

ben_mbu said:


> market shrimp..so thats the problem..because yes i do feed him that.


Could be. I know if I eat too many I feel a bit cloudy.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I use a tiger prawn or spot prawn which I have it (spot prawns are cheap in Steveston right now, like $4 a lb fresh). Haven't tried the market prawns. Do they stay together better?


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

I havn't noticed peices seperating. Its usually all swolled up instantly. Do spot prawns disintegrate easy??? I know that the market prawn holds quite well. Plus I thaw mine out b4 feeding.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I guess that's the difference since my plecos can't swallow them whole and gnaw on them. 

The tiger prawns are frozen and thawed, but the spot prawns are as fresh as it gets - live.


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## L!$A (Apr 21, 2010)

When I did the last tests yesterday morning I got

pH: 6.2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 110 ... very very high.. haven't checked yet after the W/C
Nitrites: 0


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Hardness? GH and KH.


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## L!$A (Apr 21, 2010)

Haven't tested that yet, will do once I get home!!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

With nitrates that high, I think you guys are due for another wc ASAP.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> With nitrates that high, I think you guys are due for another wc ASAP.


doing multiple over the past few days


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## L!$A (Apr 21, 2010)

Did more tests last night & this is what I came up with..

GH: Clear > Very very very light blue.. mostly clear though.. the water never turned pink (have the nutrafin GH/KH test kit)
KH: Yellow immeditately
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrates: 20<50 not quite 50 and not quite 20
Nitrites: 0.0


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

more water changes recommended ?? what do you all think??


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think 20 - 50 is good, but you'll have to keep up with the water changes. I would test every 2 or 3 days to check for the rate at which your nitrates rise and tailor your water change intervals and volume that way.

Has the water cleared up any since the beginning of this thread?


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

a little bit. not much though. ive been doing like 30% eachday.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Although the prawns are the likely culprit, could it be possible that you're starting an algae bloom? 

When you empty some of the water into the toilet bowl or into a big white bowl, does it have a greenish tint?


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## L!$A (Apr 21, 2010)

No, I was looking at it in the sink (we use a python) and we use our laundry sink which is white, and it looked quite clear


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

L!$A said:


> Did more tests last night & this is what I came up with..
> 
> GH: Clear > Very very very light blue.. mostly clear though.. the water never turned pink (have the nutrafin GH/KH test kit)
> KH: Yellow immeditately
> ...


Your water is too soft for him. Mbu's prefer medium hardness, based on your tests it sounds as though your GH and KH are 0. That is rain water conditions or in our case BC water supply. I recommend you increase your levels right away. Alkaline buffer would work well for your KH and Replenish for GH. Some people use Epsom salts or simply a little Marine salt will do the trick. This will also help with the overall water quality issue which may be contributing to the cloudiness.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> Your water is too soft for him. Mbu's prefer medium hardness, based on your tests it sounds as though your GH and KH are 0. That is rain water conditions or in our case BC water supply. I recommend you increase your levels right away. Alkaline buffer would work well for your KH and Replenish for GH. Some people use Epsom salts or simply a little Marine salt will do the trick. This will also help with the overall water quality issue which may be contributing to the cloudiness.


Alright will do. I have some buffer at home. Should We continue the water changes during this week. Or just add the buffer slowly until we up the KH??


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Typical water change for a Mbu of that size would be 30-50% weekly. I would continue with the water changes and slowly increase the hardness levels daily until desired levels are reached.


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## L!$A (Apr 21, 2010)

Great, thanks Grant.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

No problem.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

we added a micro-filtration pad last night and did another water change. The KH is coming up & i think the pad might be helping..i think i need more time..


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Good work. It won't be instantaneous, so you have to be patient.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

well it feels like day 108, the water has now gone green..ive been doing multiple water changes & still she flows green. So does anyone have anymore suggestions on what to do???


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

If it's going green, the quickest way to deal with it is a UV sterilizer. If not, then more water changes and more waiting.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

hmm..UV Sterilizer...?? Not familiar with that..what do they usually cost???


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Here are some Pentair units which are supposed to be quite good, but apparently the best units are Emperor and another brand I can't remember. You can search BCA as there are many threads (including one I started, but not sure if it was on the old site or this one).

http://www.jlaquatics.com/info/348/Pentair+Aquatics+UV+Sterilizers.html


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

I got a 9W UV on eBay delivered for $60.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think this is a 90 gallon tank though, so not sure if a 9w unit will allow the kind of flow rate which can help, but of course it wouldn't hurt and you obviously don't need to power to kill bacteria. I got my 13 w JBJ from April and I think it's probably underpowered for my 125 gallon and will likely get something else eventually.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

no its my 120 4x2x2...my 90 is clear as day..


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think you'll definitely need more than 9 watts then.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

ok so im wits end. my water is still green. & now it reaks! like it smells really bad. here is todays question. If i do say a 80% change of the water & clean those filters. Do you all think it would harm the fish??


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Opinions will vary, but I personally think the big water change will be fine, but I wouldn't touch the filters, since you appear to be going through some sort of mini-cycle.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Opinions will vary, but I personally think the big water change will be fine, but I wouldn't touch the filters, since you appear to be going through some sort of mini-cycle.


i think thats the plan. I dont see this getting any better anytime soon. Im almost ready to move all the fish out. And just re-do everything in other words start the cycle again. The problem is..how the "f" do you find a temp home for a Mbu thats almost 12 inches! without pissing him off to much.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

That's always the problem with bigger fish and bigger thanks. My 10" Chocolate Cichlid has fish lice right now. Try catching that in a fully planted and scaped tank!


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> That's always the problem with bigger fish and bigger thanks. My 10" Chocolate Cichlid has fish lice right now. Try catching that in a fully planted and scaped tank!


oh man! thats not happening. The datnoids i have would be simple to put somewhere temporary, but its my prized possesion im worried about.


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## JUICE (Jan 4, 2020)

ben_mbu said:


> oh man! thats not happening. The datnoids i have would be simple to put somewhere temporary, but its my prized possesion im worried about.


i thought duke was you prized possesion ?


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

JUICE said:


> i thought duke was you prized possesion ?


hahah funny guy JUICE... what would i do without you. that little bugger decided to jump right off my dock here @ work yesterday..scraping his knees


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

Ben,
How long are your lights on for a day?


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> Ben,
> How long are your lights on for a day?


from about 6 30am - 8pm @ night. thats to long isn't it???


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

ben_mbu said:


> from about 6 30am - 8pm @ night. thats to long isn't it???


Yup. That would be your problem. If you are not home, no lights. You don't have plants so you have stimulated the algae bloom with the long photo period. Water changes will feed it nutrients from our fantastic tap water. No more lights for a while, add a clarifier or add Green X to your filter.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Good catch Grant. Even in planted tanks, 14 hours is way too long. Most of my planted tanks are running 8 - 10 hours of light. Get some cheap timers or just turn the lights off when you go to work.

Actually, are all your tanks running this length of photoperiod? I'm surprised you've never run into this problem before.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

Rastapus said:


> Yup. That would be your problem. If you are not home, no lights. You don't have plants so you have stimulated the algae bloom with the long photo period. Water changes will feed it nutrients from our fantastic tap water. No more lights for a while, add a clarifier or add Green X to your filter.


do you carry those products @ your store??? if so ill be in very quick.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

so how much light should I be allowing to my big tank in that case??


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I would actually just black the tank out and not feed the fish for a couple of days and then do a big water change. No lights + no nutrients = no algae.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I would actually just black the tank out and not feed the fish for a couple of days and then do a big water change. No lights + no nutrients = no algae.


i guess letting them sit in the dark is better then moving everybody around.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

ben_mbu said:


> so how much light should I be allowing to my big tank in that case??


With no plants, as little as possible. The bonus is no more scraping of glass etc. The lights are for you, not for the fish.


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## JUICE (Jan 4, 2020)

2wheelsx2 said:


> With no plants, as little as possible. The bonus is no more scraping of glass etc. The lights are for you, not for the fish.


yup this is so true .. my fish are more active during the day , i turn lights on from 6 pm to 10 pm ! timed of course ..


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

JUICE said:


> yup this is so true .. my fish are more active during the day , i turn lights on from 6 pm to 10 pm ! timed of course ..


thats all eh..only like 4hrs of light per day...???


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

ben_mbu said:


> do you carry those products @ your store??? if so ill be in very quick.


Yes we do....


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I would actually just black the tank out and not feed the fish for a couple of days and then do a big water change. No lights + no nutrients = no algae.


Yes and no. As I said there is loads of nutrients in our tap water and green water algae blooms are more common in BC with our water source. Algae blooms can linger if they are given just a little boost.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I suspect any nutrients in our almost rain water pales in comparison the output of ammonia from his puffer and in the absence of light, nothing will grow, not even cyanobacteria. When I say blackout, I mean black garbage bags and heavy blankets. I much prefer a non-chemical approach to a nutrient problem if at all possible. But of course, everyone has their own methods.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I suspect any nutrients in our almost rain water pales in comparison the output of ammonia from his puffer and in the absence of light, nothing will grow, not even cyanobacteria. When I say blackout, I mean black garbage bags and heavy blankets. I much prefer a non-chemical approach to a nutrient problem if at all possible. But of course, everyone has their own methods.


A clarifier is a coagulant. It binds to the algae so it can be removed by the filter and or siphoning. With a sandy substrate, it will lye on top where it can be easily removed. It is not an algaecide. 
Also have to be careful with blankets, I would not want to see Ben misunderstand and drape anything over the top cutting back O2. Also as many reef hobbyists will attest to, Cyanobacteria will grow at night, that is part of it's curse. Not that we are dealing with that here, just wanted to clarify. No pun intended.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I see, I've never used clarifiers. I am in the Earth Sciences so I am used to using flocculants for clays and silts, so I assumed that's what it was. Thanks for clarifying that (no pun intended there either. )

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on blackout and blankets. Algal blooms are common occurrence in planted tank setups. The first suggestion is no feeding and a blackout (especially for the cyano that we call Blue Green Algae). Every planted forum suggests this first in the absense of a UV sterilizer. I've personally used this on 2 of my tanks during startup. And blankets are not duct tape.  Otherwise every kid who pulls a blanket over his head would suffocate to death, wouldn't they? :


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

well my plan is this..turn out the lights and do one last water change to get that nasty smell out. ill leave the lights out for maybe 4 days i guess?? add some clarifier and hope for the best??


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think if you're going to all that, the problem will clear up for you quickly.

One thing I wanted to add is that waterborne algae usually doesn't smell unless my memory is failing me. Are you getting a green slimy Blue Green algae as we discussed in the previous posts? Kind of a like spiderwebs that drape on everything?


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I see, I've never used clarifiers. I am in the Earth Sciences so I am used to using flocculants for clays and silts, so I assumed that's what it was. Thanks for clarifying that (no pun intended there either. )
> 
> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on blackout and blankets. Algal blooms are common occurrence in planted tank setups. The first suggestion is no feeding and a blackout (especially for the cyano that we call Blue Green Algae). Every planted forum suggests this first in the absense of a UV sterilizer. I've personally used this on 2 of my tanks during startup. And blankets are not duct tape.  Otherwise every kid who pulls a blanket over his head would suffocate to death, wouldn't they? :


Absolutely, however it is not as easy to breathe, therefore it can affect the gas exchange at the surface of the water column and since Ben has a 12" wild puffer, I would hate to see it contribute in some way. Dont get me wrong, blacking out the tank is imperative to a speedy solution and fully support it, just the blanket suggestion that concerned me, mostly because of the oxygen demands of a puffer.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I think if you're going to all that, the problem will clear up for you quickly.
> 
> One thing I wanted to add is that waterborne algae usually doesn't smell unless my memory is failing me. Are you getting a green slimy Blue Green algae as we discussed in the previous posts? Kind of a like spiderwebs that drape on everything?


A agree, smell? Carbon would take that away. Is the surface of the water agitated? Good surface movement? If not this can be contributing to your problem as well.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

yes we have a powerhead that gives off great current in there. something came to my mind the other day, and tell me if this makes sense. before this happend i went to do a normal water change on this tank & thought maybe i should take away the powerhead and allow these guys some "easier swimming". So after a few days i noticed the cloudyness. So my question is...does taking the powerhead away, might have screwed up the bacteria??


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

ben_mbu said:


> yes we have a powerhead that gives off great current in there. something came to my mind the other day, and tell me if this makes sense. before this happend i went to do a normal water change on this tank & thought maybe i should take away the powerhead and allow these guys some "easier swimming". So after a few days i noticed the cloudyness. So my question is...does taking the powerhead away, might have screwed up the bacteria??


I was concerned that if the surface was not agitated, the O2 level may have been lower helping the algae along. To confirm, this is an algae bloom, nothing to do with bacteria. Algae blooms tend to start off cloudy then turn that nasty green. That is why cloudy water can prove to be tricky to diagnose as there are many different reasons for it.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

damn water...ok so ill start this cycle when I get home. no lights and some clarifier..for the next cppl days. thanks Grant! you the man!


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## Holyarmor (Apr 29, 2010)

ben_mbu said:


> yes we have a powerhead that gives off great current in there. something came to my mind the other day, and tell me if this makes sense. before this happend i went to do a normal water change on this tank & thought maybe i should take away the powerhead and allow these guys some "easier swimming". So after a few days i noticed the cloudyness. So my question is...does taking the powerhead away, might have screwed up the bacteria??


Ben, try attaching a foam sleeve to your powerhead intake. With a strong powerhead, the foam sleeve will trap all the particles/impurities from tap water.

I had the same cloudiness problem with my new discus tank when my 2 eheims failed and replaced by 2 HOB. The water was cloudy for weeks until I attached 2 foam sleeves to my 2 HOB intake pipes. After 1 or 2 days, the cloudiness disappeared.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

"foam sleeves"..where do you find these?


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## Holyarmor (Apr 29, 2010)

ben_mbu said:


> "foam sleeves"..where do you find these?


These are round hollowed foams. The LFS or April should have some.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm not sure where this is going. Are you referring to after he has used a flocculant or just in general this will work? Suspended algae will not be filtered out with a foam on it's own. Please clarify.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

well after having the lights off for the past 2 days & done 2 water changes ive noticed clearness!!!!...so it is working.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Good to hear there is progress.


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

well after about 2 weeks, i have clear water finally. Im going to keep my tanks on a tight lighting schedule from now on. thanks to everyone for their input it really helped!!


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

That's great news!


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