# My 400 gallon Discus Journey



## tony1928

Hi everyone,

Some of the guys I chat with regularly probably know that I'm down that long road to become a novice discus keeper. Here's my original build thread (well, the original one was lost in the BCA crash of 2010) in case anyone wants to see the build process for the tank itself. http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/tank-journals-16/400-gallon-build-going-africa-404/

The first part of this process was to clear out the tank and sterilize the entire system. I serviced all my FX5's and even swapped out the UV bulb for a new one. The UV sterilizer needed a nice cleaning anyways. Alot of sludge builds up on the bottom after a year. I sterilized the system by running 10% bleach through the tank for about 15 minutes. Then did a massive WC with a heavy dose of dechlorinator. That was a couple weeks ago. Since then I've added some substrate (Carib Sea Crystal River sand) and even tossed in a few lemon tetras to "test the waters" so to speak.

Big Al's sent me the sand but sent me the Instant Aquarium version instead. I just dumped it straight into the tank and to no surprise, it was a bit cloudy. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Cleared up in about a day. I guess its supposed to be relatively clean as its their Instant Aquarium product that's supposed to go straight into the tank.

I also ordered some manzanita wood from Tom Barr. Had it shipped to Blaine and picked it up to save on shipping. Surprisingly shipping was really cheap for the amount of wood he sent. Like about $30 of USPS and it arrived in a couple of days since I think he's just in Norcal. I washed the wood today and did some preliminary arranging in my back yard and I think I know what look I'm going for. The pics below is a work in progress. Once I've soaked the wood for a couple weeks, I'm going to arrange it and screw it onto some slate to keep it down. Currently all soaking in my tub.

So some pics below to begin this thread. I figure I've gotta have a few pics.









The colour and texture of the sand....lousy pics. 
















The murky tank. Still got a few massive rocks in there as I've been too lazy to get them out. Laziness has me thinking of leaving the big ones in....but likely not. 








The manzanita in my back yard this afternoon. I'm probably going to combine the two piles to form one large mass of wood. I've got a few longer pieces I'm going to add as well. I really want a tangley kind of look, with a nice wide base and alot of sticks branching up and out. Probably going to involve a few stainless screws and slate tiles.


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## shelltoes

This is going to be cool.. Cant wait to see this unfold..
If you dont mind me asking where did all your old fish end up?


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## Diztrbd1

sounds like a great tank in the making. Looking forward to seeing the progress.


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## 2wheelsx2

Wow...nice wood!


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## bonsai dave

Looking good Tony. Welcome to the dark side. Where did you get the mazanita stumps from?


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## 2wheelsx2

bonsai dave said:


> Looking good Tony. Welcome to the dark side. Where did you get the mazanita stumps from?


Tony went to the master himself.


tony1928 said:


> I also ordered some manzanita wood from Tom Barr.


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## zhasan

Awesome!! This tank will look fantastic with Discus in it! Have you decided if you're going for wilds or domestics?


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## tony1928

I lost a few over time. Had an outbreak of what I believe was columnaris. Fish are pretty hard to treat in a 400. I gave away a few before the outbreak but the outbreak claimed most of them.



shelltoes said:


> This is going to be cool.. Cant wait to see this unfold..
> If you dont mind me asking where did all your old fish end up?


Thanks! I'm looking forward to doing this too. Gone to the dark side as they say. This is going to cost me a few bucks.



Diztrbd1 said:


> sounds like a great tank in the making. Looking forward to seeing the progress.


LOL. Talking about another's man wood is only acceptable in fish forums so it would seem.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Wow...nice wood!


As Gary indicated, I ordered from Tom Barr off his forum. It is cheap and you get a lot. He posts pieces for sale on his forum but if you sort of know what you want, he can pick through his mountainous piles of wood and find you what you need.



bonsai dave said:


> Looking good Tony. Welcome to the dark side. Where did you get the mazanita stumps from?


After much thought, I decided to go domestic just because its easier to access what I want in one go. Also, the domestics are much less pricey than the wilds I want.



zhasan said:


> Awesome!! This tank will look fantastic with Discus in it! Have you decided if you're going for wilds or domestics?


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## target

Going to look good. Can't wait to see the discus in there.


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## crazy72

Great to see the new journal, Tony. 400 gallons! Still hard to wrap my head around this number.

Any plans for plants?


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## tony1928

Still can't believe I got sucked into the discus vortex. Looking forward to getting it all together.



target said:


> Going to look good. Can't wait to see the discus in there.


As Gary says, big is all relative. Sometimes its a hassle and sometimes the size is a bonus. No plans for plants except maybe some java fern to attach to the wood. 


crazy72 said:


> Great to see the new journal, Tony. 400 gallons! Still hard to wrap my head around this number.
> 
> Any plans for plants?


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## bunnyrabbit

Look forward to the progress and more pictures. Is your tank acrylic or glass?


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## DBam

Didn't see any tank dimensions listed, what are they?


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## tony1928

the tank is acrylic and is 8' x 3'. The initial build is in a different thread linked in post #1.



bunnyrabbit said:


> Look forward to the progress and more pictures. Is your tank acrylic or glass?





DBam said:


> Didn't see any tank dimensions listed, what are they?


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## Luke78

Tony,

Finally get to see this 'take off' sort of speak.Glad you went with the CaribSea sand, using it right now in my 100G and the previous 66G , great product but i could imagine costly considering the size of your setup.So easy to work with, natural feel to it, and does leave a good impression once its all done with.Like the 'Bio and conditioner' packets that come with the bags as an added bonus.Those stumps are amazing, they still leaching stuff out? I don't know if you need to screw them down on slate,your choice regardless but they should stay down once there in.A few heavy rocks or stones maybe to hold them down if they aren't.Got a lot of rock work planned as well? Tom Barr sure knows how to pick them, after i saw Gary 's email i was amazed by the pieces he collected.Lemon tetras as the test subjects huh? its ok more on the way right lol? Please keep us posted along the way, i am sure this will be a great journal!

PS: More lunches will take place to discuss this in detail, let me know when you guys are ready for another fix


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## tony1928

Hi Luke,

This tank itself has been a roundabout journey in many ways. I guess every fishkeeper goes through the cycle...doing different types of fish. I think one of the things I've learned is to do it right the first time even if it costs you a bit more. Maybe that means waiting a bit longer for a deal. I guess patience is another good thing to have in this hobby.

The sand is really nice and even and smooth. I've been buying it online here and there and finding it for a reasonable price. Yes absolutely not cheap. But I just couldn't find any substitute that was even close to giving me the same texture. Haha, I like the free baggies of chemicals too. I knew they were in there but didn't know where they buried them. When I dumped the sand into the tank, they floated to the top which made it easier to fish out.

Tom Barr's manzanita collection is pretty amazing. Big huge pieces if you need it for a reasonable amount of money. Yes, its leaching tannins right away in my tub. Gotta give my tub a WC this afternoon! I'm going to see if I need the slate. All the wood definitely floats right now. I will end up screwing a few of the pieces together so that it will hold its form better and maybe then I can try to use rock to hold it down. Tom said that he often creates his wood scapes using many pieces of wood screwed together. I can always return the cheap slate to Home Depot no problem.

Haha, I didn't think the lemons would mind being in there. However, because of the emptiness of the tank right now, they've lost a bit of their yellow. Otherwise, they are doing fine.



Luke78 said:


> Tony,
> 
> Finally get to see this 'take off' sort of speak.Glad you went with the CaribSea sand, using it right now in my 100G and the previous 66G , great product but i could imagine costly considering the size of your setup.So easy to work with, natural feel to it, and does leave a good impression once its all done with.Like the 'Bio and conditioner' packets that come with the bags as an added bonus.Those stumps are amazing, they still leaching stuff out? I don't know if you need to screw them down on slate,your choice regardless but they should stay down once there in.A few heavy rocks or stones maybe to hold them down if they aren't.Got a lot of rock work planned as well? Tom Barr sure knows how to pick them, after i saw Gary 's email i was amazed by the pieces he collected.Lemon tetras as the test subjects huh? its ok more on the way right lol? Please keep us posted along the way, i am sure this will be a great journal!
> 
> PS: More lunches will take place to discuss this in detail, let me know when you guys are ready for another fix


Oh and yes, we definitely gotta do lunch again. The food was fantastic!


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## jobber

From the Old World to the New World - "In a 400 gallon tank, there will live some discus. Not a small, cramped, low water flowing tank. But a tank filled with sand, rocks, tetras, discus, and most of all..space. It is a discus tank, and that means beauty and elegance." 

I love the title of this journal, reminds me of "The Hobbit" book. Look forward to the inventory count of the livestock ​


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## 2wheelsx2

I think as mature as hobbyists, the thrill of doing something new/different keeps us going. And if you are not willing to do it yourself, what better than to watch your friend's tank go through the metamorphosis, at no cost to you!


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## tony1928

As long as I don't feel like Frodo climbing that big mountain being chased by the baddies, I'll be happy. I should have an idea of inventory over the next couple of days.



jobber604 said:


> From the Old World to the New World - "In a 400 gallon tank, there will live some discus. Not a small, cramped, low water flowing tank. But a tank filled with sand, rocks, tetras, discus, and most of all..space. It is a discus tank, and that means beauty and elegance."
> 
> I love the title of this journal, reminds me of "The Hobbit" book. Look forward to the inventory count of the livestock ​


Yeah, I can never leave well enough alone. I am hoping this tank will stay this way for a couple of years. I think I finally found a style that I would like to have long term. If not a true biotope, then "biotope'ish." If I had more time and patience, maybe a beautiful planted tank.

There's always a cost....watching cool builds always makes me want to do it myself! 



2wheelsx2 said:


> I think as mature as hobbyists, the thrill of doing something new/different keeps us going. And if you are not willing to do it yourself, what better than to watch your friend's tank go through the metamorphosis, at no cost to you!


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## tony1928

Just a short update for this weekend. After soaking all that manzanita for a week and doing WC's daily on that tub full of wood, I decided to go ahead and just put some of the wood together in the tank too see how it looks. I decided against screwing the wood down on slate for now and just go for a more natural look. If I don't like it, I can always go the slate route. That would allow me a lot more creative freedom as things like gravity and buoyancy can be defeated! 

Anyways, I took one shot to get some feedback from everyone. If I did use slate, I'd probably have more a more vertical look. This is more "conventional" I guess. I'm also trying to play with the lighting. As some of you may know, I'm running Aquaray XG tiles. I have 4 of them. Yes I know (now) that they are overkill. In the picture, only 3 are running and are dimmed at 50%. There is a 4th on the right side which will come on when these turn off, and will run at 30%. I fired these up at 100% before and it was like staring at a canopy full of MH lights. You would seriously go blind. Waaaay too bright for FW fish. I may end up taking one tile out. The "rig" or stand I built to hold the tiles allows me to slide the tiles from left to right from one end of the stand to the other. Kind of like Aquaray's own MMS rail system but DIY.










If all goes well and I end up liking this setup, discus are going to be joining my little lemon tetras in about 3 weeks time!


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## gklaw

:lol: I can put those LED to good use for you 

Gorgeous!! I would say I prefer the slate so I can better control the placement of large stump better.


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## 2wheelsx2

Man, those are 2 awesome pieces of Manzy. I think once the wood is good and sunk you can lay those rocks out in a trail which would look more like they were lain by water current. Looking really good.

I can't imagine what 4 of them at 100% would look like as this seems plenty bright already.


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## tony1928

Hahaha, 4 tiles are overkill for discus.

Yeah, I'm gonna think about it for a few days. I'm not too happy with having to use rocks in an unnatural way to weigh down the wood. Looks a little bit weird to me.



gklaw said:


> :lol: I can put those LED to good use for you
> 
> Gorgeous!! I would say I prefer the slate so I can better control the placement of large stump better.


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## JUICE

tony tony tony , my friend ... i sure hope once you are through with this discus venture , you come to your senses and use this 400gal tank for what it was meant for , whats that you say ? (lol) , well but of course a high end arowana maybe a red or a gold head) ,with some black rays ! maybe even a nice frt perhaps !! use this jumbo tank to its full potential !! :bigsmile:

anyways i know you will make this new venture a great success and i wish you all the best with it buddy , and i know this setup will look amazing as always ..


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## April

There goes another one taking the wrong fork in the road. Lol
Tank looks great. Discus are the kings of the aquarium..but..highly addicting and very money draining ...

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275071,-122.835466


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## crazy72

Looking really good, Tony. Your lemons at the moment must think that life is pretty good!


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## tony1928

Because I'm obsessing over this scape stuff, I redid it already...that lasted a whole 3 hours. LOL. Let me know what you guys think. My arms are all pruney now. Not doing it again tonite.


























Sorry about the image quality, its dark and I didn't want to use the flash. Oh and now there's slate underneath to hold the pieces down. Time to take a break.

Oh and Gary, I will work on the rock work later....gotta sort through my rock collection! The rock there isn't really holding anything down...just too lazy to take them out for now.


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## charles

why not let the wood float and have the branches hanging down. Your fish will enjoy that much better. 

I have seen people with discus now only into floating wood. They actually have another set of floating wood as spare, once the one in the tank starting to sink, they will swap out and use the dry one and let the water log one to dry again.


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## tony1928

Haha Justin. I'm done with the monster phase for now. Looking for something more peaceful. How is your tank going? How's the baby???? Hope everything is great.



JUICE said:


> tony tony tony , my friend ... i sure hope once you are through with this discus venture , you come to your senses and use this 400gal tank for what it was meant for , whats that you say ? (lol) , well but of course a high end arowana maybe a red or a gold head) ,with some black rays ! maybe even a nice frt perhaps !! use this jumbo tank to its full potential !! :bigsmile:
> 
> anyways i know you will make this new venture a great success and i wish you all the best with it buddy , and i know this setup will look amazing as always ..


Yep, I've been sucked into the discus darkside April! I think I've already spent my fish budget for the year and it's only February!



April said:


> There goes another one taking the wrong fork in the road. Lol
> Tank looks great. Discus are the kings of the aquarium..but..highly addicting and very money draining ...
> 
> ---
> I am here: Google Maps


Hi Franck,

Yes, the lemons are probably thinking I'm crazy right now. Again, this whole setup/phase is my favorite part as we discussed. 


crazy72 said:


> Looking really good, Tony. Your lemons at the moment must think that life is pretty good!


Thanks for everyone's kind comments!!! I love this hobby and BCA.


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## tony1928

Yeah, I've seen biotopes tanks like that. I'm not a big fan of that. I'm more for a more stylized aquascape. Those dark water/rotting leaves/lots of logs and branches look doesn't do it for me. If not this, then a planted tank but 400g is just too much maintenance for planted for me.



charles said:


> why not let the wood float and have the branches hanging down. Your fish will enjoy that much better.
> 
> I have seen people with discus now only into floating wood. They actually have another set of floating wood as spare, once the one in the tank starting to sink, they will swap out and use the dry one and let the water log one to dry again.


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## tony1928

4 of them at 100% would be like staring into the sun. Or a tanning booth. The discus would probably die of shock. LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Man, those are 2 awesome pieces of Manzy. I think once the wood is good and sunk you can lay those rocks out in a trail which would look more like they were lain by water current. Looking really good.
> 
> I can't imagine what 4 of them at 100% would look like as this seems plenty bright already.


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## April

I think it looks good the way it is. Less is more. 
What size discus and how many are you going to put in there? 
Mixed colours, two colours, one colour? 
An interesting observation..two colour strains... And at times they will divide themselves into colour groups. Ie. blue on one side..yellow or red on the other. They know their strains. With groups of a few colours they will usually choose their own colour or strain to pair with if given the choice,

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275019,-122.835466


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## 2wheelsx2

Looking good Tony. I do see what you mean by the flow blowing the sand away from the front. That's awesome. Is this all the wood you're going to put in it, or are you contemplating other pieces? I think some more would break up the flow more, giving your discus calm areas to rest in.


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## gklaw

> Yep, I've been sucked into the discus darkside April! I think I've already spent my fish budget for the year and it's only February!


Tell me about that Tony. I share your pain. Those darn LED light. I can really use you LED's, got to convert a reef to that yet. The wallet is getting lighter soon again.

Not too late to join the bright side - I still have your sump ready to go  Salties are way much easier to maintain than discies.


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## tony1928

I'm getting about two dozen discus, ranging from 3" to 5"+. I was originally going to get two strains, one blue and one red group but I just couldn't make up my mind and it will be around 4 to 5 strains. Still trying to do blue on one spectrum and moving to white and then red. So, its not completely mixed...still a method to my madness.



April said:


> I think it looks good the way it is. Less is more.
> What size discus and how many are you going to put in there?
> Mixed colours, two colours, one colour?
> An interesting observation..two colour strains... And at times they will divide themselves into colour groups. Ie. blue on one side..yellow or red on the other. They know their strains. With groups of a few colours they will usually choose their own colour or strain to pair with if given the choice,
> 
> ---
> I am here: Google Maps


Yeah, I removed two of the "hot tub" jets today and the flow is much reduced. The FX5's are feeding through 1.5" pvc pipe and then I reduced that to 3/4" with the jets. Once I took it off, the flow is way reduced. I still have two that are on the jets. Keeps the surface churning a bit. Not sure right now if I'm going to do more wood. I think I want to keep it simple. May add a few long pieces that I have but I think that's about it.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Looking good Tony. I do see what you mean by the flow blowing the sand away from the front. That's awesome. Is this all the wood you're going to put in it, or are you contemplating other pieces? I think some more would break up the flow more, giving your discus calm areas to rest in.


No SW for me for now. Maybe in the future. I am really impressed with the Aquarays. However, there are so many now out there for reefers as long as you are willing to spend some money.



gklaw said:


> Tell me about that Tony. I share your pain. Those darn LED light. I can really use you LED's, got to convert a reef to that yet. The wallet is getting lighter soon again.
> 
> Not too late to join the bright side - I still have your sump ready to go  Salties are way much easier to maintain than discies.


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## Ra's al Ghul

A 400 gallon salt water tank would be sick.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm

I really like your drift wood arrangements. I can already envision discus crusing around the piles. Looking good!


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## thefishwife

You did a great job Tony. The wood pieces are fantastic, gives the Discus somewhere to go when they need to. If you wanted to, you could always put a Large fern in the middle for greenery. I've seen that in another tank before, looks good.

Regardless looking fwd to seeing the discus.

Changing things around in our hobby is what keeps us excited and on our toes!


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## 2wheelsx2

thefishwife said:


> If you wanted to, you could always put a Large fern in the middle for greenery. I've seen that in another tank before, looks good.


And you know Tony, it just so happens that a big chunk of Java Fern detached itself from the bunch in my 125 gallon and is floating around.....


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## tony1928

Thanks Rick! Looking forward to introducing the discus to their new home!


Canadian_Aqua_Farm said:


> I really like your drift wood arrangements. I can already envision discus crusing around the piles. Looking good!


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## tony1928

Thanks Kim! The wood was the hardest part to find locally. I had to ask Tom Barr to ship them up to me from Cali. It's hard for the local guys to stock the pieces that I wanted. Just too big and tough to justify keeping in stock.

Yeah, I think if I had it my way and had a fish room, I would have a series of 6 foot 180's or 210's lining the room. But alas, the family seems to want my space so I have to settle for one big one. At least I get to live out this part of my fish keeping fantasy.

I'm counting down the discus move in days.....Probably after first week of March. tick tock!



thefishwife said:


> You did a great job Tony. The wood pieces are fantastic, gives the Discus somewhere to go when they need to. If you wanted to, you could always put a Large fern in the middle for greenery. I've seen that in another tank before, looks good.
> 
> Regardless looking fwd to seeing the discus.
> 
> Changing things around in our hobby is what keeps us excited and on our toes!


It's funny how things like that just happen eh???  Have to see if I like this look. So far, I like it a lot. But things can change as I obsess and stare at it from the couch. LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> And you know Tony, it just so happens that a big chunk of Java Fern detached itself from the bunch in my 125 gallon and is floating around.....


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> It's funny how things like that just happen eh???  Have to see if I like this look. So far, I like it a lot. But things can change as I obsess and stare at it from the couch. LOL.


You know funny things keep happening....like this! This should help with those water changes.


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## deepRED

Tank looks great! Good to see my old tank being put to such good use. 

Now an auto water changer and you're all set.


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## bonsai dave

2wheelsx2 said:


> You know funny things keep happening....like this! This should help with those water changes.


yes that will make your water changes a lot easier. Here is what i came up with. I'm using 1.5 pvc and 1.25 tubing from rona.


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## 2wheelsx2

bonsai dave said:


> yes that will make your water changes a lot easier. Here is what i came up with. I'm using 1.5 pvc and 1.25 tubing from rona.


I think Tony is going to stick a 1000 gph pump on the end of that thing.....so 50% drain should take oh...12 minutes?


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## bonsai dave

2wheelsx2 said:


> I think Tony is going to stick a 1000 gph pump on the end of that thing.....so 50% drain should take oh...12 minutes?


It only takes me 7 minutes to drain 80 gallon with no pump. Just image how much more faster it would be with a pump. What size pvc are you using ?


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## tony1928

Isn't it neat that all our old stuff eventually gets recycled and back into circulation? I think that's pretty cool. I can still remember tanks and stands I've sold way back coming back as someone else's pride and joy. Pretty cool to see. Auto WC....I could do it in the future....the tank is up against a wall that has plumbing and a drain.



deepRED said:


> Tank looks great! Good to see my old tank being put to such good use.
> 
> Now an auto water changer and you're all set.


Gary, you sure are making my big tank adventure much easier! I'm dreading all these WC's I have to do with discus! Easier the better!



2wheelsx2 said:


> You know funny things keep happening....like this! This should help with those water changes.


Hey Dave, I am currently using a 1" diameter PVC hose which drains it pretty fast as well.....probably about 100 gallons out in under 15. The PVC hose is clumsy though as its very rigid and hard to handle. With this contraption that Gary's built, I should be able to use a garden hose and be easy to handle. Filling will probably be a lot slower than draining as its not pump assisted and basically limited by how much water pressure you got and diameter of your hose.



bonsai dave said:


> It only take me 7 minutes to drain 80 gallon with no pump. Just image how much more faster it would be with a pump. What size pvc are you using ?


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## 2wheelsx2

3/4" to a garden hose. My drain is 40 feet away and the head difference is only 2 feet. If I could chuck it out the window I wouldn't need a pump. It's the 5/8" hose that's incurring the head loss. The problem isn't the draining. It takes me 6 minutes to take out 70 gallons in my cube, but it takes me 10 minutes to fill it back up. It's my tap pressure which is the slow down. In my 125 gallon, it takes over 15 minutes to refill and I run out of hot water, so draining it faster is not going to help me any.


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Filling will probably be a lot slower than draining as its not pump assisted and basically limited by how much water pressure you got and diameter of your hose.


Dang, got Ninja'd, but then it's your journal.  This is where that auto water changer would be handy. Just walk away, have a beer while it's draining and filling....hmmm...I see it in my future.


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## tony1928

If I were to redo this whole tank thing from scratch...i.e. new tank, new stand, new fish room...it would have auto WC. Gary, don't make me stare at the wall behind the tank where I would punch the hole!!!



2wheelsx2 said:


> Dang, got Ninja'd, but then it's your journal.  This is where that auto water changer would be handy. Just walk away, have a beer while it's draining and filling....hmmm...I see it in my future.


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> If I were to redo this whole tank thing from scratch...i.e. new tank, new stand, new fish room...it would have auto WC. Gary, don't make me stare at the wall behind the tank where I would punch the hole!!!


Hmm...does that mean the 400 is going to be up for sale soon?


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## seanyuki

Wow Tony......very nice setup for discus.......go for one color only......my miniature 125 gallons tank........hope to see more discus pics from you.


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## tony1928

Haha, you looking for a 400? Let's just say if i ever go for another tank in this house to replace the 400, it will only be smaller!



2wheelsx2 said:


> Hmm...does that mean the 400 is going to be up for sale soon?


That's some beautiful huge blue diamonds? that you got there. I just don't have enough self control to go for only one color!



seanyuki said:


> Wow Tony......very nice setup for discus.......go for one color only......my miniature 125 gallons tank........hope to see more discus pics from you.


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Haha, you looking for a 400? Let's just say if i ever go for another tank in this house to replace the 400, it will only be smaller!


Smaller in length maybe, but a 4x4x30" tank would be about the same volume, wouldn't it?  And no, I'd have to live in the garage if I got the 400, and what would be the point since I won't get to see the fish?


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## tony1928

Wow, a 4x4 cube....that's a monster. Most rooms can handle length but 4 feet deep is a tall order unless you construct a room for this purpose. I would put it right in the middle of a room so I could walk around it, 360! That would be pretty cool.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Smaller in length maybe, but a 4x4x30" tank would be about the same volume, wouldn't it?  And no, I'd have to live in the garage if I got the 400, and what would be the point since I won't get to see the fish?


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## charles

i will make one  some day and fill that one with 1000 cardinals and wild discus as a display tank


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Wow, a 4x4 cube....that's a monster. Most rooms can handle length but 4 feet deep is a tall order unless you construct a room for this purpose. I would put it right in the middle of a room so I could walk around it, 360! That would be pretty cool.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. In the middle of the den, in a column, so the filtration can be hidden along with the lights up top and bottom. One big stump in the middle.



charles said:


> i will make one  some day and fill that one with 1000 cardinals and wild discus as a display tank


 You could charge admission if you did that!


----------



## Fishman21

Hey it's the 1000 cardinal guy! :bigsmile:

One day we will get the right setup - i am happy to volunteer my 210G - just bring the cardinals over, Charles - i promise i will take care of them :lol:



charles said:


> i will make one  some day and fill that one with 1000 cardinals and wild discus as a display tank


----------



## tony1928

Man, 1000 cardinals cost more than all my discus combined! LOL. Would be pretty amazing to see in a huge planted tank.

Forgot to post this pic of the side view of my tank. This is the perspective of what I see from my couch when watching TV.










I've added a few more long branches of manzanita to give the future discus something to swim through. This is also with only one of my Aquaray tiles running at 30%. You can sort of see the light streaming into the tank from the middle of the tank only. The picture looks a lot brighter than it really is as the DSLR compensates too much in auto mode.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That's an awesome view. So much depth, like a real river. That's with 3 light tiles? You're right, it looks perfect.


----------



## tony1928

No, that's only lit with ONE light tile...its in "evening" mode right now. It's actually quite nice...I like it nice and dim. Just sitting on the couch staring at the tank.

You can definitely see from this pic the sand being pushed back a bit by the flow from the FX5's. I have a couple more bags of sand coming. It doesn't push back much anymore now that I've taken those hot tub jets off the return bulkheads.



2wheelsx2 said:


> That's an awesome view. So much depth, like a real river. That's with 3 light tiles? You're right, it looks perfect.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> No, that's only lit with ONE light tile...its in "evening" mode right now. It's actually quite nice...I like it nice and dim. Just sitting on the couch staring at the tank.
> 
> You can definitely see from this pic the sand being pushed back a bit by the flow from the FX5's. I have a couple more bags of sand coming. It doesn't push back much anymore now that I've taken those hot tub jets off the return bulkheads.


Wow, then I think I'd be blinded by 4 of them on at the same time!

yeah, I was just going to say that the discus might get spooked by the partially bare bottom, but even a thin covering of sand should be enough.


----------



## Rayne

Man that is one beautiful tank and the perfect footprint. Exactly what I want to have in hopefully the not too distant future. I really like the TMC lights too, I have a set of the GroBeams over my 75G with the controller. I really like being able to dim them and watching the tank at night when the lights are at 1% power. I'm not sure if I'll stick with them when I get my monster tank though because I'd really like to control my lighting periods and dimming with my Neptune Apex controller.


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I'm not aware of any controller that works with TMC lights out of the box. Thnks for the compliment on the tank, its a work in progress...I'm thinking of changes to the scape as we speak.



Rayne said:


> Man that is one beautiful tank and the perfect footprint. Exactly what I want to have in hopefully the not too distant future. I really like the TMC lights too, I have a set of the GroBeams over my 75G with the controller. I really like being able to dim them and watching the tank at night when the lights are at 1% power. I'm not sure if I'll stick with them when I get my monster tank though because I'd really like to control my lighting periods and dimming with my Neptune Apex controller.


----------



## Flygirl

Let's see more pics 

Really interested in how this tank turns out.


----------



## Rayne

tony1928 said:


> Yeah, I'm not aware of any controller that works with TMC lights out of the box. Thnks for the compliment on the tank, its a work in progress...I'm thinking of changes to the scape as we speak.


I don't think there is one either, that's why they can charge so much for their controller! lol. There's a few options for controlling lighting through the Apex but so far it's mainly the Ecotech Radions, or going the DIY route. I'm kinda hoping the LED market matures a bit by the time I get my big tank going. The prices need to come down and there needs to be a quality freshwater option that can be controlled via the Apex for me.


----------



## tony1928

There will definitely be more pics to come. I'm still fussing over the scape. Going to try something tonite. Then I'm off on vacation for a week. But soon after, I'll be introducing the discus!



Flygirl said:


> Let's see more pics
> 
> Really interested in how this tank turns out.


Yeah, the TMC Multicontrol was pricey for what you get. Cost more than my Digital Aquatics controller that I'm using for my cube build! Also, the TMC is very limited in what you can do with the control. It does dim and has a "storm" function which is pretty neat....simulates lightning. However, out of its 8 input/output channels, 6 are controlled in one group and only 2 channels controlled by the second. Basically its only got two timers. The TMC stuff is mostly overkill for most FW tanks. I know you had experience with the Grobeams so you'll know better than I would on the planted stuff. These XG tiles that I have are SUPER bright.



Rayne said:


> I don't think there is one either, that's why they can charge so much for their controller! lol. There's a few options for controlling lighting through the Apex but so far it's mainly the Ecotech Radions, or going the DIY route. I'm kinda hoping the LED market matures a bit by the time I get my big tank going. The prices need to come down and there needs to be a quality freshwater option that can be controlled via the Apex for me.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I believe the Vertex LED lights can be controlled by anything that can control 1-10v power sources and also by your PC. The TMC stuff is not there yet.


----------



## plantbrain

You might consider automating the water change methods with a float switch and a drain pump/gravity feed etc. Then have heated replacement tap water run through a good sized carbon in line filter.

You can set the timer to drain the water(solenoid drain or a small pump) and then the tap water/RO to refill. You will need a hot and cold tap water water line and also a drain somewhere near by or have a plumber install this in your home. Fear not, the $ spent on a plumber is well worth the $$$$!!!!
You can also set up a much simpler system where you turn a valve to drain(you can drain 90 to say 5%, up to you), and turn another to refill.

Still, hard plumbing a water change system makes all of this 20X easier, I'd serious suggest you do this for any tank over 180 Gal.


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, they are probably not there yet as they want to sell you the $140 controller!



2wheelsx2 said:


> I believe the Vertex LED lights can be controlled by anything that can control 1-10v power sources and also by your PC. The TMC stuff is not there yet.


Thanks for the summer project Tom! LOL. Hmmm...more food for thought. That sounds like a fun project....I'll have to think about it for this summer. Good thing is that the wall behind the tank is where a bathroom is located and would have the water lines and drain line already in place. All I need is to find a plumber who can work in tight spaces. 



plantbrain said:


> You might consider automating the water change methods with a float switch and a drain pump/gravity feed etc. Then have heated replacement tap water run through a good sized carbon in line filter.
> 
> You can set the timer to drain the water(solenoid drain or a small pump) and then the tap water/RO to refill. You will need a hot and cold tap water water line and also a drain somewhere near by or have a plumber install this in your home. Fear not, the $ spent on a plumber is well worth the $$$$!!!!
> You can also set up a much simpler system where you turn a valve to drain(you can drain 90 to say 5%, up to you), and turn another to refill.
> 
> Still, hard plumbing a water change system makes all of this 20X easier, I'd serious suggest you do this for any tank over 180 Gal.


----------



## plantbrain

Plumbers are really good at squeezing in the cracks.

This might run 200-300$, but............I'll promise you this, if you are NOT glad you did this later..........I'll pay the bill

This semi automated hard plumbed method works best IME/IMO.

Here's why: if you leave and are not around much, you typically cannot feed the fish...........so fewer water changes are required. If you are, well, you can do the water change since it requires virtually no effort.
The good thing is there is VERY little to go wrong with the valves. You might consider a fail safe over flow in case you forget to turn off the water also (believe me, it's happened to everyone). How low you set the drain is up to you, I typically set it at 80 drained tank, this way if I need to do a larger change, not an issue, if I want to do say 40%, I just watch it.

A 1-2" PVC pipe will drain the tank really fast.

The refill takes longer, but you should easily be able to drain and refill 60% of the tank is LESS than 1 hour.
Now....while all that is going on? You clean the glass, clean the filter, screens trim whatever needs it...etc.

Under 1 hour a week should be pretty good for this tank.

A better routine I think and given the volume of your hot water heater..........are doing say 1/3 of the tank water changes 2x a week.
This will match the hot water heater's capacity better and take maybe 30 min total for you. Still, less than an hour for cleaning and such for a 400 Gal tank is not bad.

The carbon prefilter are the larger types..........

20x5 Carbon Block Water Filter Cartridge GAC BB 20
Watts #20 Big Clear Whole House Water Filter Housing

The Carbon Block are the best and change these once every 3-4 months.
The plumber can install this as well or a DIY project etc. With the larger capacity and 1" size, there's little back pressure.

These are AWESOME for the house filter also, so you might have the plumber add one or DIY for drinking also. 
Tap water is 10X better after carbon filtering and is pretty good for you once the chlorine/taste odors are removed.
You can ask around for more details, then call and see what the plumbers can do to add the lines you need to the tank.
Get at least 4 bids.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> All I need is to find a plumber who can work in tight spaces.


Better not get a big burly German or Dutch guy in there then.  Seriously though, if you were going to do it, you'd probably rip out the wall behind it and do it over, so it wouldn't matter...that would be the simplest way. Then you have have all the plumbing buried in the wall with a panel that you can open.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I just came back from viewing this tank and Tom's wood. All I can say is "Wow!" Seeing this monster in person is amazing. And the wood that's in there really is huge. It's going to look wonderful with the discus in there.


----------



## gklaw

tony1928 said:


> Good thing is that the wall behind the tank is where a bathroom is located and would have the water lines and drain line already in place. All I need is to find a plumber who can work in tight spaces.


Oooo, if I were you, I would rip a hole behind the tank so quick =) Automate the whole water change !! Couple float switches and a couple of solenoid valves - $300 in parts may be. Those big solenoid valves are not cheap.


----------



## tony1928

Haha, you guys have gotta stop creating projects for me. LOL. The Auto WC definitely is a nice proposition though. One thing at a time. 

And as for the wood, I have to thank Tom for putting that together for me. After some fiddling, a couple of pieces of slate tile and a few screws, those pieces put together looked pretty awesome. It fills the tank very nicely and yet Tom was able to fit it all in a couple of pretty compact boxes. I'll post a few more pics tomorrow once the lights come back on.


----------



## jobber

tony1928 said:


> Man, 1000 cardinals cost more than all my discus combined! LOL. Would be pretty amazing to see in a huge planted tank.
> 
> Forgot to post this pic of the side view of my tank. This is the perspective of what I see from my couch when watching TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've added a few more long branches of manzanita to give the future discus something to swim through. This is also with only one of my Aquaray tiles running at 30%. You can sort of see the light streaming into the tank from the middle of the tank only. The picture looks a lot brighter than it really is as the DSLR compensates too much in auto mode.


Backtracking to the last picture update. Great new 'scape and nice pieces of wood. That is seriously quite the footprint for schools of catfishes 
The new discus are certainly going to love their new home. Any plans for more rocks?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Backtracking to the last picture update. Great new 'scape and nice pieces of wood. That is seriously quite the footprint for schools of catfishes
> The new discus are certainly going to love their new home. Any plans for more rocks?


Think Tony has already got some surprises in there helping to generate some bio.  This thing has to be seen in person to be believed. It's just insane, the amount of scaping space this thing has. I told Tony it's my dream tank, but 2x longer than I wanted. I want a 4 foot version of this.


----------



## m_class2g

great new project! cant wait to see fish in there.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Ming. Always trying to mess around with the scape every night. LOL. I want to get it nice enough before I intro the discus.



jobber604 said:


> Backtracking to the last picture update. Great new 'scape and nice pieces of wood. That is seriously quite the footprint for schools of catfishes
> The new discus are certainly going to love their new home. Any plans for more rocks?


Haha, the 20 tetras in there probably aren't doing too much....but I did get a few L15's in there a couple days back. Tossing some Xtreme scrapers in there for them when the lights go out. Whether they eat them or not, I'm not sure. They seem to be chomping on the slime coming off the wood though!



2wheelsx2 said:


> Think Tony has already got some surprises in there helping to generate some bio.  This thing has to be seen in person to be believed. It's just insane, the amount of scaping space this thing has. I told Tony it's my dream tank, but 2x longer than I wanted. I want a 4 foot version of this.


Thanks Mike. More pics to come.



m_class2g said:


> great new project! cant wait to see fish in there.


----------



## tony1928

Just got back from a week in Honolulu and after a couple of WC's and vacuuming the mountains of pleco poop produced by my 5 L15's (there's still more poop in the pics but the plecos effectively ate all the wood slime), I decided to snap a couple pics to show my current scape. It's less symmetrical now, with a nice wide open area on the right side of the tank. Tried to provide a lot of places for the discus to swim under. Have a look and let me see what you guys think. Here's 3 different vantage points so that you can try to imagine it in 3D.


























Next step will be more practice for my WC routine and then prepare to go visit Rick and pick up my discus!


----------



## FishFreaks

i like this new scape the most. are you gunna go wilds?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

FishFreaks said:


> i like this new scape the most. are you gunna go wilds?


Think Charles is sitting at the edge of his seat for the answer to this one. 

I like this new scape, but I'm afraid that the right side might be too open and the discus will all bunch up on the left. Looks great though.


----------



## FishFreaks

i like this scape better. are you doin wilds?


----------



## tony1928

thanks guys. To answer both your questions. No wilds this time. Just doing a bunch of domestics. But who knows later. Tanks rarely stay the same forever.

yeah I did think about the discus staying closer to the wood side but Charles convinced me to try to train them to feed in them on side. We'll see how that works out..

the plecos are pooping up a site, I hope I won't have to get rid of them.


2wheelsx2 said:


> Think Charles is sitting at the edge of his seat for the answer to this one.
> 
> I like this new scape, but I'm afraid that the right side might be too open and the discus will all bunch up on the left. Looks great though.





FishFreaks said:


> i like this scape better. are you doin wilds?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> the plecos are pooping up a site, I hope I won't have to get rid of them.


Wait til you have the plecos and discus both pooping.  2 dozen discus produce a lot of poop.....


----------



## Flygirl

I really like the arrangement. 

If you think the right is too open, why not add some taller plants, or a large clump of echinodorus. It would look fab and they'd have some thing to swim through.


----------



## charles

Put a 12" bep in there. It wont look empty.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> Put a 12" bep in there. It wont look empty.


I disagree. I think a half dozen L24 and 20 L236 would look great in there.


----------



## charles

perhaps 3 doz of L250


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> perhaps 3 doz of L250


Certainly would be a great tank for breeding Hypans, especially rare ones from Brazil. So when are the L250 arriving at your place so we can pick them?


----------



## charles

if there are really such a thing...


----------



## tony1928

Thanks! I'm trying to stay away from plants for now. Being my first discus tank, I want to keep this as simple as possible. I think I should be able to coax the discus out to the open area by keeping my feedings there.



Flygirl said:


> I really like the arrangement.
> 
> If you think the right is too open, why not add some taller plants, or a large clump of echinodorus. It would look fab and they'd have some thing to swim through.


----------



## tony1928

At long last, I was finally able to get out to see Rick and pick up my long awaited discus shipment. I really want to thank Rick for helping me out and making the whole process easy and painless. The toughest part was deciding on which of his awesome discus I would pick out. I went out to Rick's place and he showed me around his tanks and we finally got to his fish room where my discus were being kept. We spent a lot of time chatting before Rick finally started began bagging all the fish for me. Given that I was local and this wasn't getting shipped anywhere, Rick still bagged most of my fish separately and added heat packs to assist in the transition to their new home. The fish went in around 6pm this evening and are already settling into to their new home. I've been feeding the freeze dried black worms (which Rick also sells by the way) and they've been going at that hard every time I put a pinch in. Going to move to a more regular feeding regimen tomorrow with frozen blood worms and black worms but I thought I would leave them alone tonight so that they can get comfortable. Just couldn't resist tossing in the FDBW. Here's the stocklist:

Blue Scorpion, Altum Flora, Mercury, Red Spotted Green, White Scorpion, Classic Leopard, and Alenquer. My goal was to try to keep a consistent gradual blue to red theme to the tank.

Here's a few first pics of the bunch. Hope you guys like it. I am constantly sitting here watching them and when they see me, they all crowd the glass thinking I'm going to feed them.


----------



## Diztrbd1

Looks absolutely awesome!!


----------



## gklaw

Soon and very soon I would like my discus tank again. Have to get this automation all figure out first.


----------



## FishFreaks

classsic leopards? i like


----------



## DAN O

SWEEEEEEEET looks Awesome...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Very nice tony. I see you lemons are huddled in the corner.


----------



## Rayne

Very, very nice! Totally jealous of that tank


----------



## bonsai dave

Looking good Tony. keep up the good work.


----------



## jobber

tony1928 said:


> At long last, I was finally able to get out to see Rick and pick up my long awaited discus shipment. I really want to thank Rick for helping me out and making the whole process easy and painless. The toughest part was deciding on which of his awesome discus I would pick out. I went out to Rick's place and he showed me around his tanks and we finally got to his fish room where my discus were being kept. We spent a lot of time chatting before Rick finally started began bagging all the fish for me. Given that I was local and this wasn't getting shipped anywhere, Rick still bagged most of my fish separately and added heat packs to assist in the transition to their new home. The fish went in around 6pm this evening and are already settling into to their new home. I've been feeding the freeze dried black worms (which Rick also sells by the way) and they've been going at that hard every time I put a pinch in. Going to move to a more regular feeding regimen tomorrow with frozen blood worms and black worms but I thought I would leave them alone tonight so that they can get comfortable. Just couldn't resist tossing in the FDBW. Here's the stocklist:
> 
> Blue Scorpion, Altum Flora, Mercury, Red Spotted Green, White Scorpion, Classic Leopard, and Alenquer. My goal was to try to keep a consistent gradual blue to red theme to the tank.
> 
> Here's a few first pics of the bunch. Hope you guys like it. I am constantly sitting here watching them and when they see me, they all crowd the glass thinking I'm going to feed them.


OOOooo...nicely done Tony. Beautiful. Those tetras sure like to cluster into a tighter school once the 'real' fish of the tank are in the tank. Love the simple scape.


----------



## Canadian_Aqua_Farm

Tony, it was nice meeting you yesterday. Looks like the discus are loving all the space in their new home


----------



## tony1928

Thanks for all the kind comments everyone. I can't believe I've finally got my fish in the tank. I'll be adding more tetras in a few weeks and probably some corydoras to the mix. The driftwood that's currently "drifting" was just me being lazy and while I was cleaning the tank, the wood was jarred loose from the rocks that were holding it down. I actually kinda like it now as it provides some cover for the fish. They really like swimming in and out of the wood. 

I'm already on the lookout to see what Rick is bringing in next!


----------



## target

Nice looking group.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Daniel. Can't wait til the juveniles really grow and come into their own. Especially the Altum Floras and the Blue Scorpions.



target said:


> Nice looking group.


----------



## thefishwife

Tony, those are outstanding!!! They look at home in your tank, congrats!


----------



## Flygirl

Tank looks great, probably the best, non planted tank I've seen. Love what you did with the wood and rocks. Do you by chance know what kind of wood it is?


----------



## crazy72

Beautiful, Tony. 

Hey, how big are these discus? The size of the tank makes them look rather small!


----------



## tony1928

Thanks! This is my first foray into discus so I'm a bit nervous about it all. However, I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible. As many WC's as I can tolerate doing and lots of feedings.



thefishwife said:


> Tony, those are outstanding!!! They look at home in your tank, congrats!


Haha, thanks! I put in a little bit of plants in there to help with potential nitrates but otherwise, the tank is basically non planted like you said. The wood are just pieces of gnarly manzanita. They are rather large pieces which I had to bring up from Tom Barr of the Barr Report site, plantedbrain I believe is his BCA alias. He's got access to some awesome pieces especially if you require XL size pieces like I did.



Flygirl said:


> Tank looks great, probably the best, non planted tank I've seen. Love what you did with the wood and rocks. Do you by chance know what kind of wood it is?


Thanks Franck. The small guys in there are roughly 2.5". The larger ones are 6" or so. Probably the majority are in the 3.5" range. So they got a lot of room for growth. Its hard to resist buying more as I know they look small now but will get a lot bigger later. I will probably add several more if I see some varieties I'm looking for.



crazy72 said:


> Beautiful, Tony.
> 
> Hey, how big are these discus? The size of the tank makes them look rather small!


----------



## crazy72

tony1928 said:


> Thanks Franck. The small guys in there are roughly 2.5". The larger ones are 6" or so. Probably the majority are in the 3.5" range. So they got a lot of room for growth. Its hard to resist buying more as I know they look small now but will get a lot bigger later. I will probably add several more if I see some varieties I'm looking for.


Resist, Tony, be strong! I personally prefer tanks that don't look overcrowded. Lots of space is good for them, and I think good for how the tank looks, too.


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I'm going to be really strong to resist the urge. I definitely don't want to crowd the tank. I've seen bare bottom tanks which have at least twice the number of fish in fewer gallons, but being that this is meant to be somewhat biotope'ish, I want to keep it somewhat spacious. That being said, I might add one or two but they would have to be consistent with the types that I've chosen so far...that is, nothing that's really looks out of place with the other fish. The white scorpions was a borderline selection for me but they just look so cool to see the white pattern.



crazy72 said:


> Resist, Tony, be strong! I personally prefer tanks that don't look overcrowded. Lots of space is good for them, and I think good for how the tank looks, too.


----------



## charles

Now you need some corys and a BEP


----------



## aquaboy71

Very nice set-up!


----------



## tony1928

Haha, no BEP, but maybe some neon laser corys!



charles said:


> Now you need some corys and a BEP


Thanks for the compliment!



aquaboy71 said:


> Very nice set-up!


----------



## Luke78

Very impressive Tony, that's quite the group of discus you picked up.Are you set on the scape, or looking to change or add to it? I am gonna go with Franck and say the same, keep it understocked and let these guys grow out. I am sure your up to the challenge of frequent maintenance, but a little less is always in your favor.Great additions, thanks for sharing and keep the updates coming!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Haha, no BEP, but maybe some neon laser corys!


You mean Brochis splendens right?  These are are going to be beautiful. If you have the chance, some closer shot of the different varieties would be good. Also, a monthly update at least so we can see how they are growing.


----------



## deepRED

Looks awesome. Good job!


----------



## tony1928

Hi Luke,

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm pretty happy with the scape right now but I'm always open to change. I plan to add a bit more rock work / stones to create a nice riverbed look. I need to go to my garage and sort out more of my rock collection and maybe add a few more sizes. I also added a powerhead in there to get some circulation down low to help keep the substrate clean. Probably not going to add much more in there. Bioload certainly is a concern since I will be adding those tetras soon and these discus are certain to grow big.

Tony



Luke78 said:


> Very impressive Tony, that's quite the group of discus you picked up.Are you set on the scape, or looking to change or add to it? I am gonna go with Franck and say the same, keep it understocked and let these guys grow out. I am sure your up to the challenge of frequent maintenance, but a little less is always in your favor.Great additions, thanks for sharing and keep the updates coming!


----------



## tony1928

Thanks guys. I'm going to try to do some half ass photography on these fish once they settle in. Set up a tripod and see if I can do some shots of the individual fish. Anyone have any photography tips, I'm all ears!



2wheelsx2 said:


> You mean Brochis splendens right?  These are are going to be beautiful. If you have the chance, some closer shot of the different varieties would be good. Also, a monthly update at least so we can see how they are growing.





deepRED said:


> Looks awesome. Good job!


----------



## FishFreaks

lovin it.....are those all Forrest discus?


----------



## tony1928

Yup. All from Rick.



FishFreaks said:


> lovin it.....are those all Forrest discus?


----------



## rwong2k10

love the tank, any chance to have a private tour to see the complete set up =)


----------



## jobber

How was the past week being a new discus keeper been? 
Get a chance to sit back, kicking up the feet, and enjoying the fish...since the 'nucks haven't been playing too much exciting hockey lately


----------



## tony1928

It's been going well. Just trying to get the fish settled and accustomed to the feedings. Been feeding a variety of foods. Frozen and Freeze Dried Black Worms, frozen blood worms, NLS, Colorbits. So far so good. A couple of discus tend to be shy about coming out to eat. The majority are following me around the room begging for food. Hopefully I'll be able to figure out how to properly take fish pics so I can snap a few for the thread.

Haha, yeah, no hockey for a while....with only the last loss to focus on...sigh....



jobber604 said:


> How was the past week being a new discus keeper been?
> Get a chance to sit back, kicking up the feet, and enjoying the fish...since the 'nucks haven't been playing too much exciting hockey lately


----------



## jobber

Feeding with the left hand, shooting with the SLR/PS with the right ;D
I think Gary has conditioned his fish well enough from the looks of his recent pictures and commentary that the fish comes out of hiding and with colours popping just going near the tank. 

The fish will think a camera produces live blackworms or food.

Look forward to seeing updates in the next week or so...perhaps videos also ....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> perhaps videos also


Hey, what a great idea!


----------



## tony1928

Videos eh? Is there a better medium of serving up videos instead of youtube?


----------



## crazy72

I upload mine to photobucket, together with the pics for here. Works well.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Franck. I will use my photobucket account to get a better view of the fish for you guys.



crazy72 said:


> I upload mine to photobucket, together with the pics for here. Works well.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I've seen lots of vids on vimeo, but do not have an account, but was thinking of trying it also. Also not a huge fan of Youtube, but it just seems so ubiquitous.


----------



## tony1928

Alright everyone, finally was able to upload this video to photobucket. Hopefully it plays well for everyone. Trying to give everyone my perspective of the tank and also a good look at the fish since I suck at taking stills.

[video]http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/tonykev/?action=view&current=DSCN1125.mp4[/video]


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nice vid....I see some pleco poop, and a big ole L15 on the wood.


----------



## tony1928

Plecos poop....alot. They do help kick up the poop which the powerheads help keep suspended and then hopefully gets taken away by the FX5. L15's are really settling in and look great. They come out and eat with the discus when I drop food in. Fantastic clear patterns on them now.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Nice vid....I see some pleco poop, and a big ole L15 on the wood.


----------



## charles

Tony, I got some smaller plecos here that won't grow big. Or you can add some loxozonus cory, trust me, they are nice and active. And if you want jumbo cory, I got some big big metae.


----------



## tony1928

Have to come see you soon. My cube is hopefully going to be up and running in the next few weeks. Then I can pick up some more stuff from you too. Perhaps some "wild" fish.



charles said:


> Tony, I got some smaller plecos here that won't grow big. Or you can add some loxozonus cory, trust me, they are nice and active. And if you want jumbo cory, I got some big big metae.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

He's got 3 huge WILD ones...I just visited them today.


----------



## tony1928

What??? They didn't come home with you??? Charles you're losing your touch! 


2wheelsx2 said:


> He's got 3 huge WILD ones...I just visited them today.


----------



## beN

The tank looks amazing tony! Truly stunning!


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Ben. I can't wait to see what you got up your sleeves for the next "big" one.



beN said:


> The tank looks amazing tony! Truly stunning!


----------



## charles

Come tony. You will like the cory.


----------



## Luke78

Great video Tony, thanks for sharing your updates.The layout i like a lot , and it seems to be used well by all of your discus.How many plecos did you add in there? Saw a few on the driftwood there, and the lemons are coloring up as well i see!


----------



## beN

tony1928 said:


> Thanks Ben. I can't wait to see what you got up your sleeves for the next "big" one.


Oh a little bit of this and little bit of that, lol you know me. My addiction is back in full force! But I really like what you did with your 400G. Totally awesome dude


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Luke! The discus are not shy and basically use the entire tank. They tend to retreat to the wood side at night and when I'm doing WC. I have 5 of the L015 in there and they enjoy coming out and eating the food I drop in there for the discus. More lemons to be introduced to the tank this weekend! I'm only doing a 30% wc every 3 days right now.



Luke78 said:


> Great video Tony, thanks for sharing your updates.The layout i like a lot , and it seems to be used well by all of your discus.How many plecos did you add in there? Saw a few on the driftwood there, and the lemons are coloring up as well i see!


----------



## crazy72

tony1928 said:


> I'm only doing a 30% wc every 3 days right now.


This is like a 200% wc on my tank. :bigsmile:

Looking great, Tony. Thanks for posting the vid.


----------



## tony1928

My pleasure. Video is way easier for showing the tank that still pics.

The 30% to 40% wc basically takes most of the hot water from my 50 gallon tank. Thus I have to do the wc after bath time for the kids. Will have to consider tankless hot water next time around.



crazy72 said:


> This is like a 200% wc on my tank. :bigsmile:
> 
> Looking great, Tony. Thanks for posting the vid.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> The 30% to 40% wc basically takes most of the hot water from my 50 gallon tank. Thus I have to do the wc after bath time for the kids. Will have to consider tankless hot water next time around.


Or if you work from home, you can do water changes when no one else is here, like me.


----------



## jobber

Almost missed the link and the video. Nicely done. The fish are loving their new space. 
Nice to see the integrity of the video quality being maintain after uploading onto photobucket.

Don't spoil the fish too much Tony ;D

[video]http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/tonykev/?action=view&current=DSCN1125.mp4[/video]


----------



## jobber

What?!?! No updates of discus spawning....j/k.


----------



## gklaw

Mmmmm. Nice but I would say need 500 (may be 300) cardinals from Charles


----------



## April

I have tankless at my shop. Works great. Never run out between dog baths and fish wcs..and my gas bill is very cheap even with the gas clothes dryer running all day.

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?aievph


----------



## 2wheelsx2

April said:


> I have tankless at my shop. Works great. Never run out between dog baths and fish wcs..and my gas bill is very cheap even with the gas clothes dryer running all day.


Tony and I were both talking about that the other time. Really, anyone raising discus should have a tankless on-demand or get used to cold showers.


----------



## tony1928

Next one will be tankless for sure. Having to schedule showers around WC's is just a pita.


----------



## jobber

Haha. I prefer to still keep everyone in the household happy without using the hot water tank. Cold water changes for me. It's a bold move but hey, it's like a sudden rain storm in the Amazon with the sudden drop in temperature . I seriously would not suggest doing what I do for WC. You guys would be shaking your heads....especially when you see a cardinal or a few other fish floating lifeless and then coming back to life after the WC.


----------



## tony1928

I wanted to shoot some vids of my Mercury pair but they haven't done the deed lately.


jobber604 said:


> What?!?! No updates of discus spawning....j/k.


hahaha, I already have around 200 to 250 in cards, lemons, rummy, and emperor tetras in there. Besides Charles is busy providing me with pleco now. 


gklaw said:


> Mmmmm. Nice but I would say need 500 (may be 300) cardinals from Charles


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Haha. I prefer to still keep everyone in the household happy without using the hot water tank. Cold water changes for me. It's a bold move but hey, it's like a sudden rain storm in the Amazon with the sudden drop in temperature . I seriously would not suggest doing what I do for WC. You guys would be shaking your heads....especially when you see a cardinal or a few other fish floating lifeless and then coming back to life after the WC.


I do that, but not with cold tap water. I have a 30 gallon rubbermaid tub that I age water with. With a 33 gallon, it's still manageable. But I don't think I could dump 75 gallons of cold water in my cube.....I change to within the last 5 inches from the bottom every 2 days. There'd be a lot of dead discus in there.


----------



## tony1928

I actually use colder water now as the volume of water in the tank compared to the amount that I change, 25%, buffers any large temp drops anyway.



jobber604 said:


> Haha. I prefer to still keep everyone in the household happy without using the hot water tank. Cold water changes for me. It's a bold move but hey, it's like a sudden rain storm in the Amazon with the sudden drop in temperature . I seriously would not suggest doing what I do for WC. You guys would be shaking your heads....especially when you see a cardinal or a few other fish floating lifeless and then coming back to life after the WC.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> I actually use colder water now as the volume of water in the tank compared to the amount that I change, 25%, buffers any large temp drops anyway.


Hahaha...yeah, or maybe you can route the hose through your kid's bath water to warm it a bit before going into the tank...hey, you can patent that inline hot water heating. 

BTW, I think your sig needs updating, Tony, n'est-ce pas?


----------



## gklaw

I have a 150g and a 90g acrylic FS now. Very tight footprint to hold water for large WC 

That should solve most of the cold WC issue as the water will be at room temperature rather than the cold ground temperature.

Gary: Tell your wife how much you will save on HW bill and she may fall for it


----------



## 2wheelsx2

gklaw said:


> I have a 150g and a 90g acrylic FS now. Very tight footprint to hold water for large WC
> 
> That should solve most of the cold WC issue as the water will be at room temperature rather than the cold ground temperature.
> 
> Gary: Tell your wife how much you will save on HW bill and she may fall for it


Those are some pretty expensive wc holders, since my Rubbermaid cost $10 on sale.  Unfortunately, my wife is not worried about savings electricity. She's just forbidding any more standing water volumes in the house. And no ponds outside either...tried that.


----------



## tony1928

Alright, had a few moments tonite and snapped a few pics of the discus tank. Added a couple of plecos but they were pretty shy and one is hiding in a spot that is photo proof. Sigh...

Another full tank shot. Hard to do and I'm right up against the back wall just to try to get everything in the field of view. 








A few shots of the bigger discus in the tank. The rest are hiding in the back as they are a bit skittish except during feedings. The bigger guys are well over 6". 
















Finally, a bad picture of the gorgeous L25 I got from Charles earlier this week. He's pretty shy but he's been eating so I'm happy. I also came into possession of a L114 today, but alas, he's hiding in a spot that I can't get my camera into.


----------



## Canadian_Aqua_Farm

The tank is looking great, I miss those RSG's they are sweet fish.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Rick. They are doing great. The RSG's are the bosses of the tank.



Canadian_Aqua_Farm said:


> The tank is looking great, I miss those RSG's they are sweet fish.


----------



## josephl

2wheelsx2 said:


> Tony and I were both talking about that the other time. Really, anyone raising discus should have a tankless on-demand or get used to cold showers.


I went tankless a couple of years ago and would never go back. Before I did that, it was a PITA making sure that I got home on time to finish water changes on the 2 discus tanks(210 gallon and 72 gallon) to let hot water tank 'recover' enough for my wife to have a warm shower. I went 'oversized' on what was required for my house and now, I can refill the 210 gallon, two people can shower at the same time and everyone is happy. Cost of hot water dropped significantly too, going from electric hot water to tankless gas heating for water


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Tank is looking great tony. Thanks for letting us nag you into putting up new photos.


----------



## April

The fish look good. They will grow more..
Their eye to body ratio is good. You did well for your first group!

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?nhborf


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, when the tank gets older, tankless will be a consideration. The only thing is that natural gas is only going to be cheap for so long. Right now all my hot water and boiler is electric and my bill is pretty high. My house is only 2000sf and I would say the full year average is probably in the 250 per month range. Gas on the other hand is dirt cheap...for now.


josephl said:


> I went tankless a couple of years ago and would never go back. Before I did that, it was a PITA making sure that I got home on time to finish water changes on the 2 discus tanks(210 gallon and 72 gallon) to let hot water tank 'recover' enough for my wife to have a warm shower. I went 'oversized' on what was required for my house and now, I can refill the 210 gallon, two people can shower at the same time and everyone is happy. Cost of hot water dropped significantly too, going from electric hot water to tankless gas heating for water


Hahaha, no problem Gary. Just hate to show off my lousy photography skills. Needs practice. 


2wheelsx2 said:


> Tank is looking great tony. Thanks for letting us nag you into putting up new photos.


Thanks April. I enjoy watching them grow but sometimes my patience wears thin for smaller guys. Interesting that for instance out of 5 babies that 2 end up real big, 1 is in between and 2 are small. Definitely a social order when feeding too. 


April said:


> The fish look good. They will grow more..
> Their eye to body ratio is good. You did well for your first group!
> 
> ---
> I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?nhborf


----------



## April

Bear in mind some of the larger more dominant are males. Females are smaller and rounder. Som catch up later. They still grow up to two years old. Most growth before a year..but alot more later.

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?5ezsbi


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I'm going to be patient. I've taken the approach that whatever happens happens. I'm sure some will get big and some won't. I'm sure that's why large discus cost so much more than the babies. You breeder takes all the risk in growing out the small ones and you end up with the best. Looking forward to adding my next discus to this tank. 



April said:


> Bear in mind some of the larger more dominant are males. Females are smaller and rounder. Som catch up later. They still grow up to two years old. Most growth before a year..but alot more later.
> 
> ---
> I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?5ezsbi


----------



## IceBlue

Thanks for posting the pics, fish look great.


----------



## charles

L114... I wonder it is from my old imports 

Get a L160... make it also a pseuda tank


----------



## tony1928

The L114? That I'm not clear on.

Thought about the L160. But the one's you have might be a bit too monstrous for me.



charles said:


> L114... I wonder it is from my old imports
> 
> Get a L160... make it also a pseuda tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> The L114? That I'm not clear on.
> 
> Thought about the L160. But the one's you have might be a bit too monstrous for me.


Yes, I believe it was one of Charles' old imports.

C'mon, you know you want it.


----------



## tony1928

Are you gonna bare hand grab that spiny monster out of Charles' tank for me? 



2wheelsx2 said:


> Yes, I believe it was one of Charles' old imports.
> 
> C'mon, you know you want it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Are you gonna bare hand grab that spiny monster out of Charles' tank for me?


Sure, no problem, I got a giant net that I used to catch my Chocolate cichlid (actually I got 2 of them). Piece of cake. I'll deliver it and put it in for you.


----------



## tony1928

Gee, I don't know if that's an offer I could refuse. LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Sure, no problem, I got a giant net that I used to catch my Chocolate cichlid (actually I got 2 of them). Piece of cake. I'll deliver it and put it in for you.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Gee, I don't know if that's an offer I could refuse. LOL.


Hahaha..if you decide on one, let me know and I can certainly do that. Then I can see your giant tank and the new cube too.


----------



## charles

Tony, I can bring it over to you. I want to see your 400 + I can take some photos of the L264

How is today? say after 5?


----------



## tony1928

Thanks for the offer Charles but quite honestly, its a bit bigger (and more $$$) than I would want in a L160. Your guys are pretty big...solid fish from what I can remember. Also I want to keep my options open as far as getting in some more pseudas. Having one beast of a pleco in there may compromise that.



charles said:


> Tony, I can bring it over to you. I want to see your 400 + I can take some photos of the L264
> 
> How is today? say after 5?


----------



## charles

the more, the better


----------



## tony1928

I think I'll wait and see what your next order has in store for us! 


charles said:


> the more, the better


----------



## jobber

tony1928 said:


> A few shots of the bigger discus in the tank. The rest are hiding in the back as they are a bit skittish except during feedings. The bigger guys are well over 6".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, a bad picture of the gorgeous L25 I got from Charles earlier this week. He's pretty shy but he's been eating so I'm happy. I also came into possession of a L114 today, but alas, he's hiding in a spot that I can't get my camera into.


Let's bump these pictures up again. OOoooo...Ahhhhh. 
Fish are looking happy and the 'scape looks very natural. Those rocks need some algae...they look too clean ;D

Lemon tetras are so yellow and big! I guess the ones in my tank are not as yellow since my water is pretty humic with lots of tannins. Nice pictures....*ahem* videos...*ahem*...remember to monetarize videos on youtube ;D


----------



## tony1928

The lemons are great, pretty awesome colour and big too. Very happy with them.

No algae on the rocks as my lighting is subdued and only about 4 hours per day.

We should all just start doing DIY vids or start reviewing every product we buy and monetize!  


jobber604 said:


> Let's bump these pictures up again. OOoooo...Ahhhhh.
> Fish are looking happy and the 'scape looks very natural. Those rocks need some algae...they look too clean ;D
> 
> Lemon tetras are so yellow and big! I guess the ones in my tank are not as yellow since my water is pretty humic with lots of tannins. Nice pictures....*ahem* videos...*ahem*...remember to monetarize videos on youtube ;D


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> We should all just start doing DIY vids or start reviewing every product we buy and monetize!


You mean you guys aren't doing that yet? That along with flipping equipment for profit!


----------



## tony1928

Alright, just a quick pic of the L25 from Charles. Too lazy to break out the tripod. This is freehand at 200mm zoom. LOL. So many blurry ones. This was the sharpest of the bunch. Still trying to find a moment where the L114 is out and I have the camera ready.


----------



## tony1928

I walked back out and there sat the L114. Pretty cozy with the L25....so far.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That's a very plump L114! And a great looking L25.


----------



## charles

The L25 is looking better. And I can't believe how big that L114 is now. I remember it was a tiny 2.5" fish when I sold them. 

Such a good example of L114 and L25. I can't believe someone can actually mistaken one as the other.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks guys. The L114 was already fat when I got him and has been eating well. Pellets. The L25 is much more timid but has been eating. I see a nice fat belly when he's on the glass. Kinda weird as you don't expect a pseuda on the glass. When the lights are out, these guys are all over the place.


----------



## bunnyrabbit

Nice pictures. Wish I had a better camera. Do you want to come over and take some pictures for me? LOL


----------



## jobber

Nice cats and pictures. I would definitely get confused by both fish. Colours and patterns are so nice. Can't wait until these monsters grow up ;D


----------



## deepRED

charles said:


> The L25 is looking better. And I can't believe how big that L114 is now. I remember it was a tiny 2.5" fish when I sold them.
> 
> Such a good example of L114 and L25. I can't believe someone can actually mistaken one as the other.


You should see the other one. Just as fat but 2-3" bigger.

Great looking scarlet, tony!


----------



## tony1928

Thank YOU! Very healthy and fat!



deepRED said:


> You should see the other one. Just as fat but 2-3" bigger.
> 
> Great looking scarlet, tony!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

deepRED said:


> You should see the other one. Just as fat but 2-3" bigger.


I think the other one is even fatter. It's HUGE!


----------



## deepRED

tony1928 said:


> Thank YOU! Very healthy and fat!


Glad to see it going to a good home!


----------



## deepRED

2wheelsx2 said:


> I think the other one is even fatter. It's HUGE!


Anytime you want him, just say the word.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

deepRED said:


> Anytime you want him, just say the word.


Haha, thanks. I'd love to, but I think my tank already has too many Pseudas to put that big guy in there and still keep the peace, but I'll think about it.


----------



## charles

You can't have too many pseudas.


----------



## macframalama

beautiful, dont know if i would have done the whole discus thing, but the set up looks amazing

I would have done uaru or some such similar but beautiful set up, now i have to go get some rocks like that for my scape, before something else breeds in there and i cant lol


----------



## macframalama

or imagine some wild caught orinoco oscars in there, yeah buddy, i just have a personal distaste for discus because of there finiky ness and personal bad experiences, but again it was long ago and i have learned alot since then, who knows maybe somewhere down the road i will try again , and i will sing a different tune

anyway you cut the cake that set up is SWEET


----------



## tony1928

Honestly I never thought I would have done discus either. This is my first try with them. So far, other than a slightly more frequent WC routine, there's not much difference than taking care of any other fish that I've had. When the fish get to adult size, I will probably reduce WC frequency a little bit more as the main thing right now is to give better conditions for the juvies to grow. One other thing is to resist the temptation to overstock. I struggle with having only 2 tanks as it prevents me from enjoying more variety.

Thanks for the comments!



macframalama said:


> beautiful, dont know if i would have done the whole discus thing, but the set up looks amazing
> 
> I would have done uaru or some such similar but beautiful set up, now i have to go get some rocks like that for my scape, before something else breeds in there and i cant lol





macframalama said:


> or imagine some wild caught orinoco oscars in there, yeah buddy, i just have a personal distaste for discus because of there finiky ness and personal bad experiences, but again it was long ago and i have learned alot since then, who knows maybe somewhere down the road i will try again , and i will sing a different tune
> 
> anyway you cut the cake that set up is SWEET


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> You can't have too many pseudas.


Let me get right on that. I think there's a Megancistrus that'll fit right in there.


----------



## tony1928

Happy Father's Day everyone. Just a couple of shots now that the kids have gone to bed. Got these from Charles a couple of days ago and they seem to be settling in nicely. Being plecos though, they're kinda naturally camera shy....we'll mine are anyway....unlike Gary's. 

L97. I'm a sucker for polka dotted plecos.










L273. With a name like Titanic, you'd think he'd be bigger LOL....he's the smallest of my pseudas for now but also my favorite so far. Can't get a good shot of him yet.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nice Pseudas Tony. You're making me envious.


----------



## mdwflyer

That L273 is awesome, saw it before you picked it up from Charles.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks! You know where to go get more!



2wheelsx2 said:


> Nice Pseudas Tony. You're making me envious.


Yeah, on my last trip to see Charles, I mentioned I wanted one and he was kind enough to save one for me. I've been keeping an eye out for one.


mdwflyer said:


> That L273 is awesome, saw it before you picked it up
> from Charles.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Thanks! You know where to go get more!


Hey, I noticed some nice java fern in the photo and I know where there's come nice Cherry shrimp that will do clean up in there!


----------



## charles

you are lucky, that is the only live L273 in this order


----------



## tony1928

Hahaha, you think they would survive in that tank? Yeah, there's alot of algae in that clump of java fern you gave me.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Hey, I noticed some nice java fern in the photo and I know where there's come nice Cherry shrimp that will do clean up in there!


Yeah sad to hear of all those DOA. What a waste.



charles said:


> you are lucky, that is the only live L273 in this order


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Hahaha, you think they would survive in that tank? Yeah, there's alot of algae in that clump of java fern you gave me.


Yep, I have cherries in my cube with 9 discus, rams and 100 tetras.


----------



## tony1928

Well then I'll have to take you up on your offer. I have to see you soon anyway for the FDBW and caves. 



2wheelsx2 said:


> Yep, I have cherries in my cube with 9 discus, rams and 100 tetras.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Well then I'll have to take you up on your offer. I have to see you soon anyway for the FDBW and caves.


Ah...right....dang, you and I are costing each other too much money.


----------



## Rastapus

Tony,
Truly awesome set up, I find myself going back to this thread often just to see the full tank shots over and over. Well done.


----------



## tony1928

Thanks Grant. I just have to improve my photography skills. Also, I'm never truly happy with the aquascaping. Always looking to change things up.



Rastapus said:


> Tony,
> Truly awesome set up, I find myself going back to this thread often just to see the full tank shots over and over. Well done.


----------



## charles

I think he needs a couple more L25 in there


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> I think he needs a couple L2*4* in there


Fixed it for ya!


----------



## charles

Funny......


----------



## tony1928

Just a peek at my L24. He's not big on staying out or staying still for a pic. Eating pellets and very active especially once lights are out. My biggest pleco yet from Charles.










Here's a more full body pic from the first night I got him a week and a half ago. Not a good pic but one of a few that he sat still for.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...in your tank it looks so.....small.


----------



## tony1928

Well without a frame of reference, its kinda hard to tell how big it is. I guess I could tell you that the rock he's on is is about 7 to 8" across. Does that help? 



2wheelsx2 said:


> Hahaha...in your tank it looks so.....small.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Well without a frame of reference, its kinda hard to tell how big it is. I guess I could tell you that the rock he's on is is about 7 to 8" across. Does that help?


Haha..I could actually tell by that clump of Java Fern, as I remember how big those suckers are. You're lucky, my guy's favourite spot is now under a huge overhang, so can never get pictures.


----------



## tony1928

Yup, he's claimed this spot as his own. Its the only spot that's covered but is more or less wide open to I can check him out at my leisure.

Well it was YOUR clump of java fern to begin with. LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Haha..I could actually tell by that clump of Java Fern, as I remember how big those suckers are. You're lucky, my guy's favourite spot is now under a huge overhang, so can never get pictures.


----------



## tony1928

Just happened to see these two guys out and about and was lucky enough to get a few shots in before they scooted into their respective hiding spots.

My L273...so active and getting more so each day. 








My L97. I have a spotted pleco fetish.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Very nice. All hail the new pleco king!


----------



## tony1928

Hahaha just a lowly serf following in your footsteps. 



2wheelsx2 said:


> Very nice. All hail the new pleco king!


----------



## charles

Gary, i have 1 last l97.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> Gary, i have 1 last l97.


Tony has lots of room in his 400.


----------



## tony1928

Reserved for a black pseuda. 



2wheelsx2 said:


> Tony has lots of room in his 400.


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## m_class2g

L273 is very nice.


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## m_class2g

tony1928 said:


> Alright, had a few moments tonite and snapped a few pics of the discus tank. Added a couple of plecos but they were pretty shy and one is hiding in a spot that is photo proof. Sigh...
> 
> Another full tank shot. Hard to do and I'm right up against the back wall just to try to get everything in the field of view.
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> A few shots of the bigger discus in the tank. The rest are hiding in the back as they are a bit skittish except during feedings. The bigger guys are well over 6".
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> Finally, a bad picture of the gorgeous L25 I got from Charles earlier this week. He's pretty shy but he's been eating so I'm happy. I also came into possession of a L114 today, but alas, he's hiding in a spot that I can't get my camera into.


wow just scrolling back through this thread. awesome tank. very relaxing to watch.


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## tony1928

Thanks for the kind comments Mike. This tank has been great fun to put together. Watching all these fish grow is going to be the best part.


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## m_class2g

tony1928 said:


> Thanks for the kind comments Mike. This tank has been great fun to put together. Watching all these fish grow is going to be the best part.


i think so! especially with the nice stock in there!


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## jobber

tony1928 said:


> Just a peek at my L24. He's not big on staying out or staying still for a pic. Eating pellets and very active especially once lights are out. My biggest pleco yet from Charles.
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> Here's a more full body pic from the first night I got him a week and a half ago. Not a good pic but one of a few that he sat still for.


Beautiful colours, Tony! This guy loves being in that tank. hope your tank is doing good. Been awhile but just catching up to all the pictures


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## tony1928

Thanks Ming. Tank is still doing great. Working on a custom sump for the tank right now. Hope to reduce the maintenance to increase enjoyment.



jobber604 said:


> Beautiful colours, Tony! This guy loves being in that tank. hope your tank is doing good. Been awhile but just catching up to all the pictures


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## 2wheelsx2

*Ahem* - auto w/c with inline carbon filter.  Slip that by the wife.


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## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> *Ahem* - auto w/c with inline carbon filter.  Slip that by the wife.


Any necessitating upgrade to reduce tank maintenance time, the Mrs. will certainly agree to 
Just look at those beautiful fish! Don't even need to visit the Vancouver Aquarium, South American exhibit.


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## Luke78

Are we gonna see a few new pics Tony? or keep us waiting just a bit longer? Regardless, glad to hear everyone is doing well!


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## jobber

We're such demanding hobbyists, up to no good again ;D


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## tony1928

Don't I wish. Hacking through the walls probably won't be in the cards for this tank. Next project perhaps.



2wheelsx2 said:


> *Ahem* - auto w/c with inline carbon filter.  Slip that by the wife.


Thanks Ming. That reminds me, its about time for me to visit Vanaqua again. After seeing the Seattle Aquarium two months ago, I really appreciate ours here. Mind you, the Seattle one is no slouch with its recent updates.



jobber604 said:


> Any necessitating upgrade to reduce tank maintenance time, the Mrs. will certainly agree to
> Just look at those beautiful fish! Don't even need to visit the Vancouver Aquarium, South American exhibit.


No real good update pics yet. Though I have an odd one in my next post down below.



Luke78 said:


> Are we gonna see a few new pics Tony? or keep us waiting just a bit longer? Regardless, glad to hear everyone is doing well!


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## tony1928

I got this nice group of Red Cover discus from Rick a while back and just this last week, I noticed this odd pattern on one of them. Check it out. I may have to nickname him "Twoface." This is bizarre. I know that these discus tend to change colours with their moods, very quickly too. Didn't think he could do half his face.


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## 2wheelsx2

That's a cool looking fish. You should get some blue Alenquers. I love the one in Rick's thread. Or do you have one/some already? You got so many I can't remember.


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## jobber

The two face is unique. I like the birthmark


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## tony1928

No, I do have some Alenquer, though they were not specifically labeled as Blue. They are a bit of a slower grower compared to the others I've gotten.



2wheelsx2 said:


> That's a cool looking fish. You should get some blue Alenquers. I love the one in Rick's thread. Or do you have one/some already? You got so many I can't remember.


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## tony1928

Yeah, I just thought it was weird. Just appeared one day out of the blue.



jobber604 said:


> The two face is unique. I like the birthmark


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## bonsai dave

tony1928 said:


> I got this nice group of Red Cover discus from Rick a while back and just this last week, I noticed this odd pattern on one of them. Check it out. I may have to nickname him "Twoface." This is bizarre. I know that these discus tend to change colours with their moods, very quickly too. Didn't think he could do half his face.


Hey Tony It called half black it caused by sudden water temperature change of 5 degrees or more during water changes. The fish colour should change back in a few days or so.


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## tony1928

Hey thanks Dave. I never knew that. It all makes sense now too. The cold water straight from the tap was so warm the last few months, then of course now we've had a cold spell. Time to add more hot water to the mix.



bonsai dave said:


> Hey Tony It called half black it caused by sudden water temperature change of 5 degrees or more during water changes. The fish colour should change back in a few days or so.


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## bonsai dave

tony1928 said:


> Hey thanks Dave. I never knew that. It all makes sense now too. The cold water straight from the tap was so warm the last few months, then of course now we've had a cold spell. Time to add more hot water to the mix.


What a coincidence . I just finishing reading Andrew So discus the naked truth and there was an article about that in the book.


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## Rayne

Any update on this awesome tank?


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## tony1928

Rayne said:


> Any update on this awesome tank?


Not much recently. I have added some new discus from Rick in addition to the grow out fish. I've added some ARSG and ABD. Beautiful fish that brightened up the tank. I'm looking to add more fish that will really liven up the colours.


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## jobber

2 more days ....


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## tony1928

jobber said:


> 2 more days ....


New fish going in the cube. Wrong thread! &#128516;


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> New fish going in the cube. Wrong thread! &#55357;&#56836;


Bwahahahaha....you got so many discus you're confusing everyone Tony.


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> Bwahahahaha....you got so many discus you're confusing everyone Tony.


I think I got just under 30 discus in the 400. Waiting for them to get big. Anyways, here's a few pics of some new inhabitants I got from Rick in the last couple of months.

A couple of Albino Platinums. I love how rich the colour appears on these fish. 








One of the Albino RSG's. I really wanted to give the tank some real punchy colour and I wasn't disappointed. One of my favorites. 








One of the Altum Floras I got that were 2" to start. Getting pretty attached to it since I got it as a baby. Now a good 5"








A lousy picture of my L24. Wanted to share as it shows the spines really well from the lighting.


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## mdwflyer

Both tanks looking Awesome! Have you had any issues with the big plecos and acrylic?


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## tony1928

mdwflyer said:


> Both tanks looking Awesome! Have you had any issues with the big plecos and acrylic?


None but then I'm not keeping any big panaques either. I've heard they can gnaw at the acrylic somewhat. However, for the real big boy panaques that I've seen in other peoples' tanks, I've not seen them really suck on the glass. When there's plenty of food and wood around, I don't see why they would care to.


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## 2wheelsx2

The Panaque will occasionally go up on the glass on my tanks, but if the glass is clean there is no reason for them to rasp, because if they do, they can do a lot of damage. 2 types of pleco I found consistently go up on the glass in my 125 are the Pseuda (L25 and L160, but not either of the L24 for some reason) and the Scobiancistrus. I find the L368, L014 and L253 up on the glass every so often, but then they don't have the apparatus to damage the surfaces like the Panaque.

More and more I'm thinking that people who complain of plecos gnawing the tanks are people who use them as algae eaters and don't provide enough food for them. As Tony said, with plenty of wood and big stones around and lots of food, there's very little danger of them damaging an acrylic tank. I would likely still not keep Panaque in acrylic tanks because of the potential for massive damage, but with any of the other types, I would not hesitate at all. As a matter of fact I think my next big tank will be acrylic. It's hard to look at Tony's beautiful 400 gallon and not want one. In person, this tank is awe inspiring.


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## crazy72

My Goodness Tony this is more discus in one room than I ever had cardinals! :bigsmile:

Looking fantastic.


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## crazy72

crazy72 said:


> My Goodness Tony this is more discus in one room than I ever had cardinals! :bigsmile:
> 
> Looking fantastic.


Wrong thread I think. I watched the vids earlier and only replied now, so I got the wrong thread.


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