# 100 (+/-) gallon square tank



## 2wheelsx2

So after dilly-dallying for quite some time, I'm finally pushing forward with this project. Couldn't sleep tonight, so I thought I would start this journal after posting various questions on Tony and Shawn's threads about how to do various things.

Here's the basic concept:

Square trimless tank (30x30" footprint, 24" high). It's roughly about 100 gallons. Thanks will be Eurobraced at the top. I decided against Starphire glass after talking to various people here, and working through the cost versus visual difference of my concept.

Filtration will probably be an Eheim 2078, although originally it was going to be a 2028. I decided it wouldn't hurt to have more filtration. At this point, the filtration will probably be hard plumbed into the back of the tank because of the Eurobracing.

This will be a low/med light tank without CO2 injection to begin with. I plan to use Tek retrofits and moonlights to get the lighting effect I want.

Substrate will probably be pool filter sand. There will be at least one big stump thanks to April, and various stones and piece of slate (more to come on the decor a bit later).

Stand is going to be custom built by Target. We have run through various design ideas and so far, the leading one is an ADA style where which is flush with the tank to showcase the trimless glass tank. Unfortunately, because of the choice of final inhabitants, I won't be able to go open top, so it'll have a full canopy on top.

Inhabitants will be a group of L134's (what else beside plecos?) initially, but I have not worked out what all the other inhabitants will be yet. I am eventually wanting a small group of discus in there, but I'm undecided what type (wild vs domestic, solids vs. leopards, etc.)

Anyway, that should do it for now. I do not have any pics, as the only thing I have now is the filter, which I did take some pics of when I first got it, but accidentally erased the pics from my DSLR.

At this point, I'd like to thank for following people for inspiration and advice (direct or indirect): Charles for advice on fish and driving my pleco addiction, Tony1928 for his DIY on the big 400 gallon, Target for mutually motivating each other on getting more tank and fish, and Davej for helping me to procure the L134 group and being so kind as to hold the fish while I'm away and until the tank is ready (have not decided on this part yet, whether to put the L134 into the 125 or let Dave hold the fish until the tank is ready). Too many people have given me input on the Starphire vs non-Starphire to list here, so I won't list those people individually.

Wow, that was one long post with no pics...sorry.  More to come tomorrow as I finalize my tank order.


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## Claudia

I was going to say...where r the pics? lol I was picturing it while i was reading this, oh boy wanna see pics so bad


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## thefishwife

Sounds like its going to be a great tank Gary - congrats.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks, Kim.

And just for you Claudia, I'll put a pic of the filter tonight.


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## Nicklfire

Hey,

Great start on the journal! I wasnt aware that it was 100 gal, so i revise my suggestion for the loc line, i would maybe suggest the 3/4" locline and bulkhead. That's what i have on mine, so you can take another look at the pics on my journal and you will get a good idea of the size of the locline pipes and the bulkheads.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Shawn. I am actually getting the tank made by whoever J&L uses, and Jeff there has been amazing. I was very disappointed with several other vendors/LFS in the Lower Mainland I talked to. But once I remembered J&L and gave them a call, it's been smooth sailing. Jeff spent 30 minutes with me on the phone yesterday deciding on the options and where to place the holes and bulk heads. He also suggested I do that 45 degree bevel on the leading edge of the tank that is visible to the room. I'll discuss the bulkhead size with him today as he gets the final pricing on all the options for me.

To anyone else who wants a custom tank of any sort, I'd heartily recommend J&L. So far, my experience has been exemplary, and the prices are competitive. I'm going to be getting pretty much everything from them that I haven't got already, besides livestock. No need to shop online when you have pricing and service like this.


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## josephl

Congrats on the decision - I'm sure it will be beautiful.

Why do you say it needs to be covered with plecos and discus? Just curious. My 240 is uncovered and no major problems


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## tony1928

Can't wait to see the blow by blow progress of this tank. Very unique design. If I had the time and space, I would love to do one of the many ADA style tanks. Planted tank is one area that I have yet to poke my head into. Tried SW, just didn't do anything for me. I love how you think too, if you are gonna do something, you may as well go all out. LOL. That is now my philosophy for fishkeeping.


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## 2wheelsx2

josephl said:


> Congrats on the decision - I'm sure it will be beautiful.
> 
> Why do you say it needs to be covered with plecos and discus? Just curious. My 240 is uncovered and no major problems


Really? I didn't realize your tank was open top. Everyone has been telling me Discus are jumpers. I want to fill this cube to the top ADA style so I don't see any air. You don't think that's a concern? If so I'll also bevel the top edges and do light hangers instead.


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Can't wait to see the blow by blow progress of this tank. Very unique design. If I had the time and space, I would love to do one of the many ADA style tanks. Planted tank is one area that I have yet to poke my head into. Tried SW, just didn't do anything for me. I love how you think too, if you are gonna do something, you may as well go all out. LOL. That is now my philosophy for fishkeeping.


Thanks Tony. The reasoning for going all out is that my wife put her foot down and said no more tanks, so I'm upgrading the 20 gallon to this to keep the same number of tanks and I wanted it to be a showpiece in the living room. So it has to be silent, beautiful and fit in with the furniture and flooring. Also has to be low maintenance, so I'm not up to my elbows in it all the time like I am for the other tanks. I was thinking I would "T" off the outlet of the pump so that I could just pump the water out for water changes. I can't remember, but did you do that in your setup? I also want to run an inline Hydor heater.


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## josephl

2wheelsx2 said:


> Really? I didn't realize your tank was open top. Everyone has been telling me Discus are jumpers. I want to fill this cube to the top ADA style so I don't see any air. You don't think that's a concern? If so I'll also bevel the top edges and do light hangers instead.


I have never had any problems. I only recall "one jumper" in 3 yrs of having it open top(I once had it as a high tech planted discus tank and was too lazy to clean the glass). Definitely no problem with the plecos

Feel free to come and take a look and decide if you want

Joe


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## 2wheelsx2

Hmmm....that gives me some food for thought. And yes, I wasn't worried about the plecos, as I've open top in my smaller tanks for a time (stopped doing it because of the kitchen reno and the dust). I just have to figure out how to mount my lights with moonlights if I go open top.

What's the correlation between dirty glass and the jumper?


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## CanadaPleco

The 134's are going to LOVE their new home there  Sounds like its going to be a really nice tank! Glad you went with the starfire.


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## 2wheelsx2

CanadaPleco said:


> The 134's are going to LOVE their new home there  Sounds like its going to be a really nice tank! Glad you went with the starfire.


Hahaha...Rich, I think I made my post a little bit confusing, posting at 2:30. I am NOT going with Starphire as the cost is 50% more than without. I just couldn't justify paying an extra $200+ which I can get a lot of fish for.


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## davej

Gary, its great to hear you have found a reliable source for your tank.
Can't wait to see it up and running!


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Dave. Actually I just got a call from Wendell at Ocean Aquatics too. They were a day late with the quote or I could have gone with them too. Seems like a nice guy. Guess I just picked the wrong people to deal with in the beginning. But now I know.


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## tony1928

I don't think you could go wrong with either Jeff or Wendell. Both were great to work with when I was playing with SW tanks.


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## 2wheelsx2

Just for Claudia, and to get this thread moving a bit, here's a pic of my 2078 .


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## target

Looking forward to seeing it all come together. I am glad I get to contribute to this project as well. We need to get together and discuss the stand soon.


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## halonine

Dunno how I missed this thread Gary haha. I'm glad to see you are doing everything properly and planning it out ahead of time. This tank is going to be stunning, i can already picture it!

What is the reason for the 45 degree bevel on the leading edge? Just a visual thing im guessing? Sounds like i'm going to end up dealing with J&L for my upcoming build as well. I wish my wife would allow me to do a bigger tank right now....or adding another tank heh. Oh well, as long as it looks good im happy. 

Congrats on this project, can't wait to follow the updates.

Tyson.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Tyson. I actually decided against the beveling after seeing a series of pics Jeff sent me. I'm just going to have to have the regular finish beveling like normal factory tanks like the Oceanics. And yes, the 45 degree bevel is just for visual appeal as my tank will be in a corner so it'll only be visible on one side with the edge "leading" into the room.

Daniel, the kitchen is almost completely done (check the album) so we're moving stuff back into it which means I'll have room to store the tank, so yeah, we'll have to get together as soon as I get back to plan this thing out.


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## 2wheelsx2

So the tank was ordered yesterday. The final specs are:

All vertical edges polished for a factory look, 3 bottom edges polished (all except the drilled pane). The drilled pane of glass will be slightly thicker then the other 3, but will be in the back.

Other items in the plans now are:
Digital Aquatics controller
Hydor inline heater
Sunlight supply retrofit T5 (2x24" I think)
LED Moonlights in each corner (white more for dim lighting than actual moonlights)

I am also trying to get the final dimensions for the custom stand planning. The panes of glass will be 30x30x24, but of course that won't be the external dimensions. Normally that's not a big deal, but since I want a flush ADA look without any lip on the outside, I will need the exact dimensions.


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## 2wheelsx2

Confirmed that the external dimensions will be 30"x30"x24" and expected delivery is 2 weeks.

Here's rendering of what it should look like (sent to me as a final check):


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## halonine

That's pretty awesome looking. I'm jealous


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## eternity302

I thought the tank will be in the center of the room?


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## target

Nope, it will sit in a corner with 2 sides visible. A unique set up. Looking forward to seeing it.


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## tony1928

Awesome. Can't wait to see it on the stand. Been busy this weekend so far decommissioning my sump and replumbing for FX5 action.


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## 2wheelsx2

I'm pretty stoked that I've made progress. I was almost ready to give up after the last setback. Now I even made the step to the direct plumbing, so it'll be closer to my dream tank than ever. And yes, Jackson, as Target stated, it's going to be in the corner of my living room.


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## eternity302

=) I just thought you were planning this in the middle as we last spoke, but it'll look good anywhere! Maybe next time when u get back and when I come by to pick up the things it could hopefully be compeleted =)

Good luck on the plumbing though!


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## hondas3000

what is the purpose of 1/2" front panel and the rest is 3/8?


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## 2wheelsx2

I don't think I ever planned to have it in the middle of the room, but maybe you were thinking about my discussion about the built in for my future BIG tank (that's a few years away). I shouldn't have any trouble with the plumbing (famous last words) as Jeff at J&L told me it's a simple matter and he can choose all the bulkheads and even help me get it down so that it's plug and play for the filter, the intake and locline outlets. I then will just have to put the hoses in. I've already got a big stump from April that I plan to put in the tank.

I don't get back for another week, and the tank should be ready the week after that, so I don't think it'll be ready until September, for viewing.


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## 2wheelsx2

hondas3000 said:


> what is the purpose of 1/2" front panel and the rest is 3/8?


The 1/2" is in the back. That panel is drilled. Since the tank is 30" front to back, it's just for extra strength as the glass is not tempered.


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## cpool

Can you pM me where you got the L134's from, I would love to know as i have been looking for them for a long time and Charles keeps threatening to bring them in but they never seem to make it. Can you PM me the price as well as I would love to know, as I am totally interested in getting my own group.

Curtis


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## 2wheelsx2

See this thread: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/plecos-56/some-new-additions-herd-l134s-4511/

We got them from Rich (CanadaPleco). Davej and I went in together and got a bunch to save shipping. Unfortunately, we bought them all. I can't remember how much they were selling for, as we got a group price, but I believe it was $40 a piece. You can contact him through PM here.


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## 2wheelsx2

Got this great stump at April's a while back when I went to check out her order of Kenny's Discus. Just remembered to take a pic tonight. It'll look great in the corner of the tank.


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## target

That's going to look good in there.


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## 2wheelsx2

I think so too. I just gotta figure which side will face forward. I also need to get over to April's for some more branch shopping.


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## tony1928

Nice wood! 

So when do you think you will have your tank delivered?


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Tony. 

Based on the estimate from the builder, it should be there on Monday, and I happen to be taking the afternoon off then.


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## tony1928

Nice, now all your need is your stand and you can start all the fun stuff. I'm totally jealous. Now that my tank is done, my next project will be the lighting and I'm still brainstorming ideas. I'm trying not to make it too complicated and keep it DIY.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, Daniel and I are still working on the stand design on how to make it look great and yet still very functional. I have several unique requirements:

1. Sides must be flush with the tank so that it looks like a pedestal.
2. Doors should be on 2 sides so I can get at the equipment from 2 directions since it's so deep and in a corner.
3. The lights will be mounted diagonally as it's only 30" wide and I want to maximize bang for buck by mounting 36" lights. I looked around and 24" and 30" lights are not great bang for buck.

Edit: That last requirement is for the canopy. That means my canopy has to open diagonally.


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## Nicklfire

so how many Wpg are you going for? i think you should try out those lights from fishneedit, that's where i got mine from this time, and my old halides i had was from them, i really liked them and they are cheap as hell.

The only thing i didnt like is the spead, it wasnt as good as i thought, you would probably need 2 on yours..... cause i think i had that 150 on my 24" wide tank... and it just barely covered it all lol.

i could see a cube getting good use out of them


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## 2wheelsx2

< 1 wpg.  I am only planning Anubias and crypts in this tank I think. Low light, low maintenance. I am thinking two 2x24w retrofit kits in the enclosed canopy and 2 set of white LED moonlights.


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## Chappy

Hi Gary:
Finally had some time to read through this thread and get caught up - how exciting! So tank should be arriving soon? Seriously - I can't wait to see what you do with it; it's going to be fantastic. 
Shelley


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## target

I agree with Shelley. It's going to look good. The stand and canopy is going to be very unique. Looking forward to seeing it come together.


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## 2wheelsx2

Tank is supposed to arrive this week, but I've been too wrapped up in my house project. I'll have to check today with J&L.


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## davej

Make sure to post up some pictures when you get it. 
Try and get a close up of the beveled edge detail, I am curious to see it.


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## 2wheelsx2

Oh don't worry Dave. I'll overtax my DSLR when I get this tank.


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## 2wheelsx2

Just got the call from Jeff at J&L. So far, exemplary service and great guy to deal with. I'm super stocked to pick it up. He said he took a peek at the tank and it was really nice.


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## target

Can't wait to see it. Keep it wrapped up until you are ready to put it in the house.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, I'm doing that as much to hide it from my wife as to protect it.


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## target

Better if she sees it when its ready to be filled.


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## tony1928

Oh yeah baby, here we go!


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## jay_leask

i am so looking forward to seeing your new pleco haven


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks for the encouragement guys, as if I needed any. Going to pick up the tank and it'll sit in the garage while Daniel and I work out the final details of the stand and I get the rest of the equipment together. After the thread the maxijets, I think I'll be doing the maxijet 400 with the sureflow mod along with the plumbed 2078. Going to put a whole list together for Jeff at J&L and pick it up all at once some time after I pick up the tank (maybe the weekend), as I don't have a lot of time on Friday with my brother's truck. I'm sure he's not going to want to stand there for 40 minutes while I am figuring out what this fish geek wants to buy.


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## target

Only 40 mins? Picking all the stuff for my 90 has taken a couple weeks. Good thing J&L's website is pretty extensive.


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## hp10BII

Fun thread to read, looking forward to the actually setup and tank inhabitants.


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## 2wheelsx2

So Jeff at J&L was good enough to stay for a bit to inspect the tank with me even though I got to the store a bit later than I had planned. It's now sitting in my garage. And of course there are pics. 

Nothing to see here but cardboard









Should I have gone Starphire? You be the judge?









The Eurobracing will be covered by the canopy so was not polished, but you can see the vertical edges are:









I chose white silicone edges:









And yes Daniel, the horizontal dimensions are exactly 30", but curiously, to the top of the brace it's 23 and 7/8".


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## davej

That is going to look awesome


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## 2wheelsx2

I am so excited about the tank I'm getting the continuous rolleyes from my wife.


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## tony1928

Haha, get used to the continuous rolleyes Gary. When I'm at my computer, my wife keeps asking me if I'm looking at fish porn again!!!!

Awesome tank unveiling! It's just like those "other" forums where they unbox a new laptop or a toy. Very nice.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I am so excited about the tank I'm getting the continuous rolleyes from my wife.


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## target

That tank looks sweet. Glad you decided to go for what you wanted. Did you measure the height of the filter yet? I still think 5'-6" is not too tall.


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## Bien Lim

niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, thats all I can say


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## 2wheelsx2

Had to measure the clearance needed for the filter, so I took a shot of the monstrosity that is the 2078.


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## target

That's one big filter! After seeing that we definitely need to keep the extra height under the stand.


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## 2wheelsx2

So....I finally got to J&L today and worked through the parts with Jeff and this is the result:










Actually all the stuff in the left pile is Daniel's. I was just being his errand boy today and picking up a "few" things he needed for his new tank build:










Here's my pile:










And here are the plumbing pieces, minus the bushings I'll need to get from Corix:

1" SLIP X ½" SLIP PVC BUSHING x 2
1" MPT (MALE PIPE THREAD) x ¾" FPT (FEMALE) x 1









So just to recap, I got the plumbing supplies (locline, flare nozzle, 2x1" bulkheads, intake strainer, and 90 degree elbow.

Then I got:

2xEcoplus moonlights
Maxijet 400 with the sure flow mod and magnetic holder
Hagen GLO 24 w ballast - forgot one and will have to go back for another
2x 10000K Coralife T5 HO
2x Colormax T5HO
4x Sunlight Supply reflectors
Hydor 300 w inline heater
Digital Aquatics Reef Keeper Lite

That's about it for my small shopping list.


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## 2wheelsx2

BTW, Jeff was super patient, even though I didn't give him this list in advance. The shop was fairly busy too, with lots of people hanging around asking questions on the phone and in person.

I must say it was one of the most pleasant shopping trips I have ever done, so I think J&L has a customer for life. If I ever go SW, everything I get will be from there. I can afford to buy stuff from anywhere, but what I cannot afford to do is waste time and have my intelligence and integrity insulted. So if you're looking for equipment, give them a try. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, nor do I get kickbacks...I'm just one extremely satisfied customer, and in my book, that counts for something.


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## target

I am loving the look of my pile!! Can't wait to come and grab it all.

Oh, and I bet Erin tripped out when she saw it all.


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## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...I knew you would get a kick out of it. I warned Erin when I brought it out..."honest, it's not all mine!".


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## target

Looking good. You started playing with the controller yet?


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## 2wheelsx2

Nope, I didn't even open the box. I know if I do it'll be hooked up to my 20 gallon.


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## target

Haha. Very true. When are you going to get the bushings? I can't wait to install the bulkheads so I can paint the back of the tank.


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## 2wheelsx2

You don't need the bushings to install the bulkheads. I can give them to you tomorrow. 

I was hoping your plumbing friend might be able to help with the parts, as I'm no plumber. I was going to call Corix tomorrow and just ask if they had the parts, reading right off Jeff's list.  I'll give you the automatic feeder tomorrow regardless. Let me know if you want me to bring the plumbing parts.


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## monkE

Looks awesome wheels, cant wait to see it up and running! The custom jobs are always the best


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## tony1928

Gary, I love the pics of the piles. Nothing like a pile of aquarium supplies to freak the wife out. I concur with your comments about Jeff. He's awesome to deal with and is super patient. Most of their staff there is pretty good as well. Not to mention their prices are among the lowest for the stuff that they carry. Can't wait to see the pieces start to come together. 

I was going to get a Eheim 2080 before but couldn't do it as it was just too huge! Couldn't clear it under my stand. I'm not sure what height of stand Eheim was thinking that people would have. It's way taller than an FX5 and that's already a pretty big filter!


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## target

I know what you mean Tony. The stand I am building for the 90 is not deep enough to house the FX5 comfortably. Eheim 2075 for me instead.


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## davej

You guys are going to love the Digital Aquatics controllers. 
One thing I didn't realize is that the 2 outside sockets are switched mechanically and the 2 middle ones are switched electronically. The mechanical ones can handle more amperage, but make a clicking noise when switching. At first I had my heater hooked up to one of these and could notice the clicking a lot. After switching it to the electronic one and putting the lights to the mechanical, nice and quiet. You are going to love how well it keeps a constant temperature.


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Gary, I love the pics of the piles. Nothing like a pile of aquarium supplies to freak the wife out. I concur with your comments about Jeff. He's awesome to deal with and is super patient. Most of their staff there is pretty good as well. Not to mention their prices are among the lowest for the stuff that they carry. Can't wait to see the pieces start to come together.
> 
> I was going to get a Eheim 2080 before but couldn't do it as it was just too huge! Couldn't clear it under my stand. I'm not sure what height of stand Eheim was thinking that people would have. It's way taller than an FX5 and that's already a pretty big filter!


I measured it and couldn't do it in my 125. You basically have to do custom or put it outside the stand.The top of the taps at 22" so you'd need probably 24" clearance to comfortably work on it. Not sure you'd be able to lift it over the lip of the stand though, as I have enough trouble getting my full FX5 out for maintenance.

One thing I wanted to know about the direct plumbing deal, is that I wonder if it would be wiser to get an adapter to go from the 3/4" to 1" in the bulkheads for the barb fittings. I haven't done this before so I'm not sure what to do. I'm just trying to figure out the simplest way to do this.

Another question I had is whether I should put it shutoff valves inline or just rely on the taps in the canister filter?



davej said:


> You guys are going to love the Digital Aquatics controllers.
> One thing I didn't realize is that the 2 outside sockets are switched mechanically and the 2 middle ones are switched electronically. The mechanical ones can handle more amperage, but make a clicking noise when switching. At first I had my heater hooked up to one of these and could notice the clicking a lot. After switching it to the electronic one and putting the lights to the mechanical, nice and quiet. You are going to love how well it keeps a constant temperature.


I refuse to open the box as I would get too excited and try to hook it up to one of my little tanks....might do that anyway. I plan on hooking up the lights to mechanical switches, so no biggie. I'll have the heater on the electronic switch. I just gotta figure out how to fit it all in, as I have the following:

2 moonlights
2 HO t5 ballasts
1 300 w heater
1 powerheard
1 canister filter. Obvious some things will have to come on and off together, probably the powerhead and canister, but I need to have one set of lights come on and off independent of the other so that's 3. Moonlights is 4. So I think I'll need the moonlights of main lights on a different timer.


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## tony1928

The big Eheims are just too tall period. I don't think there's a standard store bought tank stand that would be able to fit that. I really was thinking of going with a series of 2080's for a while until I started to draw up my plans for the stand.

So you are running 1" bulkheads I presume and the barb is going to be 3/4"? 
Not quite sure what exactly you are asking. What would be your other way of doing it?

As for the shutoffs, I would always do separate ones from the canister taps. The taps are way easier to break than real pvc shutoffs and when they do have problems, you will be able to simply shut off the water and remove the canister taps and do what you need. Those inline shutoffs should only be like $5 to $7, well worth it imo. I have shutoffs for all my lines, independent of the FX5's own shutoffs. Then if I have hose issues or FX5 canister shutoff issues, I can easily isolate and repair.

One other tip from my limited experience after my project is to use more threaded fittings rather than glued slip fittings especially for bulkheads. My belief was that glued fittings would be more secure and I suspect that would be the case. I felt that the threaded fittings just used pipe dope or teflon tape just seemed flakey to me. However, if you ever needed to make some changes or replace a part, the ability to undo it all without destroying it makes a big diff. For bulkheads, at some point, we may need to replace the gasket. Some of my bulkheads have 90 degree fittings glued to them which would prevent me from taking the bulkhead off the tank. I would be hooped in that situation and would probably need to cut off the old one and buy a new bulkhead. I destroyed a couple of bulkheads in monkeying around with my setup, even before I got fish in there! 


2wheelsx2 said:


> I measured it and couldn't do it in my 125. You basically have to do custom or put it outside the stand.The top of the taps at 22" so you'd need probably 24" clearance to comfortably work on it. Not sure you'd be able to lift it over the lip of the stand though, as I have enough trouble getting my full FX5 out for maintenance.
> 
> One thing I wanted to know about the direct plumbing deal, is that I wonder if it would be wiser to get an adapter to go from the 3/4" to 1" in the bulkheads for the barb fittings. I haven't done this before so I'm not sure what to do. I'm just trying to figure out the simplest way to do this.
> 
> Another question I had is whether I should put it shutoff valves inline or just rely on the taps in the canister filter?


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> The big Eheims are just too tall period. I don't think there's a standard store bought tank stand that would be able to fit that. I really was thinking of going with a series of 2080's for a while until I started to draw up my plans for the stand.
> 
> So you are running 1" bulkheads I presume and the barb is going to be 3/4"?
> Not quite sure what exactly you are asking. What would be your other way of doing it?
> 
> As for the shutoffs, I would always do separate ones from the canister taps. The taps are way easier to break than real pvc shutoffs and when they do have problems, you will be able to simply shut off the water and remove the canister taps and do what you need. Those inline shutoffs should only be like $5 to $7, well worth it imo. I have shutoffs for all my lines, independent of the FX5's own shutoffs. Then if I have hose issues or FX5 canister shutoff issues, I can easily isolate and repair.
> 
> One other tip from my limited experience after my project is to use more threaded fittings rather than glued slip fittings especially for bulkheads. My belief was that glued fittings would be more secure and I suspect that would be the case. I felt that the threaded fittings just used pipe dope or teflon tape just seemed flakey to me. However, if you ever needed to make some changes or replace a part, the ability to undo it all without destroying it makes a big diff. For bulkheads, at some point, we may need to replace the gasket. Some of my bulkheads have 90 degree fittings glued to them which would prevent me from taking the bulkhead off the tank. I would be hooped in that situation and would probably need to cut off the old one and buy a new bulkhead. I destroyed a couple of bulkheads in monkeying around with my setup, even before I got fish in there!


I was just wondering if I can run 1" hose instead and not to deal with all the adapters? Also, the Eheim hoses are 5/8", so where would I get ball valves (I assume I would use those?) for the hose?

As for the fittings, mine are all either barbed or threaded, no glue ones.

I think part of the key information is that I am not using hard plumbing, but using the canister hoses, so I am not sure what valves I can use.


----------



## davej

2wheelsx2 said:


> 2 moonlights
> 2 HO t5 ballasts
> 1 300 w heater
> 1 powerheard
> 1 canister filter. Obvious some things will have to come on and off together, probably the powerhead and canister, but I need to have one set of lights come on and off independent of the other so that's 3. Moonlights is 4. So I think I'll need the moonlights of main lights on a different timer.


Why not just have the LED lunar lights on all the time? LED's have something like a 10-15 year lifetime with very little draw. Why even switch them? That way on controller You can use 1 for heater, 1 for first light,1 for second light and last filter and powerhead? You have the option for the controller to go into standby mode for whatever length of time you want. So you can have it
turn pumps off or lights on or both for predetermined amount of time at the push of 2 buttons. If you want come on over and check mine out and it will give you food for thought on how you want to set things up.


----------



## tony1928

Ball valves are available at Home Depot and Rona. It would be easiest if you had some hard plumbed portion to attach the ball valves to, however, you could always connect it to your hose portion by glueing in two hose barbs into a ball valve. For my setup, I'm more or less running on soft hoses now. However, there's a section that is hard plumbed. ie. bulkhead, then 90 degree down to under the stand. That's where my ball valve is. Then I have another 90 leading to a hose barb.

By going up to a 1" hose, you will probably lose some of the flow velocity but I'm sure if that will be an issue for your setup.

Hope this helps! Or confuses! LOL.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I was just wondering if I can run 1" hose instead and not to deal with all the adapters? Also, the Eheim hoses are 5/8", so where would I get ball valves (I assume I would use those?) for the hose?
> 
> As for the fittings, mine are all either barbed or threaded, no glue ones.
> 
> I think part of the key information is that I am not using hard plumbing, but using the canister hoses, so I am not sure what valves I can use.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It helps Tony. Thanks. I didn't think about gluing barbs to the ball valves. Daniel is going to go to Corix since it's close to his house, on the weekend, and see if they have other suggestions, but putting a ball valve right out of the tank (we have 90 degree barbed elbows out of the bulkheads). would be a good idea to make the tank standalone. 

It's guys like you who have tried it and have suggestions which make it a little bit easier for Daniel and I to take the plunge into hard plumbing. No replacement for direct experience.


----------



## target

Definitely helpful Tony. First time I have ever deliberately put holes in a tank. This is a big learning curve, but I am already liking the way its going. Can't wait to see it all assembled. 

So, I am guessing it would work to run a short piece of hose off the barb on our elbow into the ball valve with barbs glued to each end?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Dave. I guess I'm old school. I drive my wife nuts because I HAVE to turn off all lights in a room every time I leave it. You going to be around this long weekend? I would love to come see the fish and your setups.


----------



## fkshiu

I would suggest that you go with hard plumbing directly in and out of the bulkheads. It's just safer and more secure at a place behind the tank where access may be difficult. There's also no chance at kinking and there won't be any algae buildup.

The key to being able to shut everything off and disconnect easily is a true union ball valve like this:
Quarter-Bloc PVC True-Union Ball Valve from Asahi/America, Inc.

Secondly, Eheim connectors are not actually 5/8", but metric (16mm ID to be exact on the Pro IIs, not sure about the Pro IIIs). You can check around to various places for metric to standard adaptors or you can force the 16mm Eheim hoses over a 1/2" barb if you heat the hose up a bit and use a hose clamp.

Not sure the size of your bulkheads, but if it's 3/4" then on your filter intake it would go: Bulkhead slip --> 3/4" PVC --> 90 deg PVC elbow --> 3/4" PVC --> slip in PVC union ball valve --> slip out to 3/4" PVC --> slip in 3/4" to 1/2" PVC threaded out adaptor bushing (tricky to find but if you can't just add a bit of 1/2" PVC to 1/2" slip/ 1/2" threaded adaptor bushing) --> threaded 1/2" barb to Eheim metric hose.

Remember to use plenty of Oatey Pipe Joint Compound instead of teflon tape at all thread connections.


----------



## tony1928

Yes, exactly. Just be aware that the ball valves tend to be kinda hard to turn. Even though I have hard plumbing, I make sure I brace the ball valve with my left hand while I turn with my right. Check with Corix to see if they have any other suggestions. 5/8" ID stuff isn't typical PVC stuff, so it may be challenging to find stuff that works. For instance, I'm using my bottom purge valve on my FX5 as a quick water changer by hooking up a garden hose to it. The barb that's there takes 5/8" ID hose (same as garden hose). I wanted to make a connector there so that I can quickly screw on a garden hose for water changes. That required a short length of 5/8" hose and couple of hose clamps and and 5/8" brass barb hose adapter. I've never seen a PVC one before. It always confuses me when I mix Hose versus Pipe fittings.



target said:


> So, I am guessing it would work to run a short piece of hose off the barb on our elbow into the ball valve with barbs glued to each end?


I'm glad to provide my very expensive (to me) experiences. LOL.


----------



## fkshiu

tony1928 said:


> Yes, exactly. Just be aware that the ball valves tend to be kinda hard to turn. Even though I have hard plumbing, I make sure I brace the ball valve with my left hand while I turn with my right. Check with Corix to see if they have any other suggestions. 5/8" ID stuff isn't typical PVC stuff, so it may be challenging to find stuff that works. For instance, I'm using my bottom purge valve on my FX5 as a quick water changer by hooking up a garden hose to it. The barb that's there takes 5/8" ID hose (same as garden hose). I wanted to make a connector there so that I can quickly screw on a garden hose for water changes. That required a short length of 5/8" hose and couple of hose clamps and and 5/8" brass barb hose adapter. I've never seen a PVC one before. It always confuses me when I mix Hose versus Pipe fittings.
> 
> I'm glad to provide my very expensive (to me) experiences. LOL.


The high quality true union ball valves they sell at Corix are industrial grade meaning they turn nice and buttery smooth even if you haven't touched them for years. All you have to do is pick them up to know that they are of much better quality than the junk valves sold at Home Despot.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

fkshiu said:


> Secondly, Eheim connectors are not actually 5/8", but metric (16mm ID to be exact on the Pro IIs, not sure about the Pro IIIs). You can check around to various places for metric to standard adaptors or you can force the 16mm Eheim hoses over a 1/2" barb if you heat the hose up a bit and use a hose clamp.


This part I knew, and that 5/8" is the closest fit. But actually I'll be using 1/2" barbed 90 degree elbows to go into the 16mm hose out of the tank as it fits better.

Your other points make sense though, so maybe we should consider making hard plumbing coming out of the tank instead, and then connecting to the hoses near the bottom.


----------



## fkshiu

I should add that after looking at where you've drilled your holes, you should definitely hard plumb out of the tank if only so you can install the true union ball valves. As I said, these puppies are made for industrial applications so they have to be 100% reliable. If one of your hoses or cheaper ball valves failed while there was maintenance going on, think of how much water would drain out before the water level in the tank got down to your bulkheads.

With the true unions all you do is shut the valves, then unscrew the unions before the filter is entirely free of the tank. Maintenance is a cinch. No need to yank on barb fittings.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

fkshiu said:


> I should add that after looking at where you've drilled your holes, you should definitely hard plumb out of the tank if only so you can install the true union ball valves. As I said, these puppies are made for industrial applications so they have to be 100% reliable. If one of your hoses or cheaper ball valves failed while there was maintenance going on, think of how much water would drain out before the water level in the tank got down to your bulkheads.
> 
> With the true unions all you do is shut the valves, then unscrew the unions before the filter is entirely free of the tank. Maintenance is a cinch. No need to yank on barb fittings.


I can understand the anxiety around this, but being an external filter guy all my life (I am currently running 5 canister filters in 3 tanks) how would this failure be different than if the intake on my FX5 failed? The intake is a 1" line and the intake goes to the bottom of my tank. If that hose failed, it would drain my 125 to within 6 inches of the bottom of the tank. And I understand about the valves. If I couldn't put a proper one in, I wouldn't put one in at all. This is the same practice as in stereo equipment where people would spend $3000 on cables to realize that the speakers like Mordant Shorts have a metal fuse conducting all the current. Total waste of time. It's better not to put a valve in unless the valve is safe.


----------



## tony1928

True unions are awesome. I had them for when I was doing the sump setup and they are wicked. In fact, I got some of the Asahi brand ones off ebay really cheap. For my 1.5" setup, these valves were massive. The entire unit was probably close to 7 or 8 inches long and 5 or 6" high. The 1" one should be alot smaller if that's what you intend to use. True unions would be the way if you were to go all the way, as they say. Undoing barb fittings are a pita. Way easier to just spin the nut off on the true union and you are disconnected. Just not sure if you intended to go to the trouble of hard plumbing to accomodate true union ball valves that's all. Personally, based on what you've written in this thread, I think you'd prefer simple to complicated. 

I remember someone showing me a speaker cable that comes in its own bird's eye maple box. Hilarious. It cost more than my entire home entertainment system.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I'd like to avoid hard plumbing if I can, mainly because of space and complexity. I'd like the tank as close to the wall as humanly possible and hard plumbing is not going to allow that as much as using the stuff I have now. The way we have the stand built, a lot of the access will be from inside that stand. I guess if I had drilled the bottom of the tank, then I could have had all the plumbing inside.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Snuck out of work early on Friday (shhhhh) and visited April. Man, she had some awesome pieces. Check these I got, and the pricey was more than fair:










The big one is going to compliment the stump I got from April 2 months ago very well. One in each corner, anchored and wedge by river stones I think. I'm going to pile up slate to create some natural crevices and caves.


----------



## target

Those are sweet!! If you decide it doesn't work I want the one on the left


----------



## 2wheelsx2

April had loads more.....


----------



## target

I'll wait and see what all the pieces I have right now look like in the 90 first. Nice pieces though.


----------



## jay_leask

so hows it all coming along?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jay_leask said:


> so hows it all coming along?


Sloooowww.....I was at the VAHC meeting last night listening to Tom Barr, which was very enlightening, and gave me some ideas for this tank (might inject CO2 now. )

Daniel got all the plumbing for me this week, but I have to pick it up. I got all the wood I need now, and just need the rocks this weekend from Northwest Landscaping. I'm going to attach the bulkheads and paint the back black this week or this weekend some time.

The main thing is the stand (no pressure, Daniel ) Since the canister is going to be plumbed in directly, I need the tank on the stand before I do anything. I'm going to move the 20 gallon which it replaces to the other side of the room soon too and prep that space. But the wife won't allow me to just dump the tank on the living room floor empty because of the kids (worried about smashing glass, but then so am I).


----------



## Nicklfire

2wheelsx2 said:


> Sloooowww.....I was at the VAHC meeting last night listening to Tom Barr, which was very enlightening, and gave me some ideas for this tank (might inject CO2 now. )


If you could see my angry face right now.... tsk tsk....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nicklfire said:


> If you could see my angry face right now.... tsk tsk....


Hahahaha...sorry Shawn, you did all the work and was not rewarded for it. Tom is a very very entertaining speaker. I think even the non-planted people were entertained.


----------



## Nicklfire

Wasn't due to me this time, i did ask him but he said that he was already attending, weird coincidence


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Either way, it was very very cool. I learned a lot just by listening to questions/answers and thinking about his descriptions of the things he did/tried.


----------



## target

2wheelsx2 said:


> Daniel got all the plumbing for me this week, but I have to pick it up. I got all the wood I need now, and just need the rocks this weekend from Northwest Landscaping. I'm going to attach the bulkheads and paint the back black this week or this weekend some time.
> 
> The main thing is the stand (no pressure, Daniel ) Since the canister is going to be plumbed in directly, I need the tank on the stand before I do anything. I'm going to move the 20 gallon which it replaces to the other side of the room soon too and prep that space. But the wife won't allow me to just dump the tank on the living room floor empty because of the kids (worried about smashing glass, but then so am I).


Patience is a virtue Gary. You will be rewarded in turn. Besides, you took too long to get me the final dims so 2 other projects snuck in ahead of yours.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

fkshiu said:


> Remember to use plenty of Oatey Pipe Joint Compound instead of teflon tape at all thread connections.


Almost forgot about this bit of advice. Franklin, why do we want to use this compound rather than teflon tape? The guy at Corix said to use teflon tape. Also where do I found this stuff locally?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I just googled it and it says this? Now I'm really confused.

"Not for use on plastic threads."


----------



## Nicklfire

The plastic teflon tape is used for galvanized steel fittings, so they can get as tight as possiable... basically the teflon tape is used as a lubricant

If you use teflon tape with abs or pvc fittings it can cause them to get so tight they either break or warp the threads..

the abs/pvc compound which you can buy (pipe dope) is used so the fittings dont leak..

that's the way i interpretted it

what type of fittings are you using.. ?


----------



## target

All the fittings are plastic except for the barb fitting to the filter tubing.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

They're PVC. So why does the pipe dope people say not to use on plastic pipe? That's where I'm confused.


----------



## fkshiu

I have used pipe joint compound on plastic threads for as long as I can remember. A plumber told me to use it way back when. I didn't know there was any type of a warning not to use it for plastic. Perhaps you could email Oatey? In the past they've been really good about answering queries IME.


----------



## fkshiu

OK, I might have figured it out. there are three types of Oatey pipe dope as you can see:

Pipe Joint and PTFE Tape :: Oatey.com

I think the grey stuff is not for use with plastic threads. I use the "great white" version in the middle. I'll check my tube of it when i go home to see if it's got the same warning. It seems as though the "great blue" version would be acceptable as well.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Ah...awesome. Thanks Franklin. That's what I'll get then.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Minor setback. It looks like the barbs we got are too small in diameter (1/2"). So back to Corix we go to see if we can get 5/8" ones and failing that, 3/4" ones. I was so excited last night, I was going to test fit everything and take a pic of it hanging off the tank, but when I saw the hose was much bigger than the barbs, I didn't take the pics.


----------



## target

Corix didn't carry the barb fittings. Rona for that. And yeah, the 5/8" hose looks big on it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Tiny bit of progress. Target getting the plumbing together yesterday pressured me to get my butt in gear. Got 3 coats of black paint on 2 sides. Just got to clean up and fill in some thin spots.


----------



## target

Bout time you got something done.  Looks good.


----------



## eternity302

Wow! nice progress!
But is it me, or does that tank look massive on the wooden platform!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It IS massive. 30" wide is pretty wide. Lucky I didn't try to do a 36" x36". I wouldn't have been able to locate it properly in my living room.


----------



## target

It's a big tank


----------



## BigFatLyre

*Now you know why "square" furniture doesn't work!*



2wheelsx2 said:


> It IS massive. 30" wide is pretty wide. Lucky I didn't try to do a 36" x36". I wouldn't have been able to locate it properly in my living room.


Looks good; but you have to be careful. That's why in the furniture game square rarely fits anywhere!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It's going in a corner that is 36"x36".


----------



## jobber

that's a lot of work there. hope everything progresses smoothly for you.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The work (and the fun) has just begun.


----------



## jobber

haha. no wonder...it you seem quite busy. it is the fun that is behind the work!
look forward to your masterpiece. a field trip will be in the works, eh, eternity.


----------



## thefishwife

Very nice gary!!!


----------



## Nicklfire

Looking great man, no pics???? i'm disappointed lol.
What paint did you end up using, i am going to do the back of my tank too but i dont wanna use spraypaint as it's already in the house.

What are you doing now?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I just used a Krylon acrylic paint. Had some problems with bonding in specific areas near the silicone, I suspect because of silicone residue. Tried everything including Goo Gone, alcohol window cleaner, vinegar, etc. Finally rubbing alcohol did it. Was going to be new pics, but had to work on car and garden stuff all weekend. I got the plumbing from Daniel last week and will test fit it tonight and post a pic. The stand is almost ready so I'm going to relocate my 20 gallon and get the area ready for the tank this weekend. I was also out of town for work for a week this month, so that kind of threw a wrench in the works.

Edit: Just realized I didn't say too much about the paint. It was a can that I rolled on and then I dabbed the spot with a foam paint brush. It goes on nice and thick and for the same reason that you don't want to spray in your house, I don't want to spray in my garage (I have a car and a motorcycle in my garage).


----------



## target

Just need to get the doors attached and paint it up.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Been crazy at work, and Daniel's been getting ahead of me. I'm going to try to get the plumbing glued together and siliconed to the tank either tomorrow or during the week.

Here's a pic of all the wood going into the tank. That's a 60 L Rubbermaid tub:


----------



## jay_leask

have you figured out how they are going to go together?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The 2 stumps will go in the back corners to hide the outlet and intake, the powerhead and temp probe. The 2 forking branches will go between, on top of a pile of stones and slate that I have yet to get.


----------



## Nicklfire

Are you doing a controller on this one, if so what type


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I got a Digital Aquatics Reefkeeper Lite after Davej's review. I will also pick up another PC4 for a total of 8 plugs which will controller all the devices I ever want on this tank.


----------



## tony1928

Oooh, electronic gadgetry! Can't wait to see it set up. I'm about to work on my LED's soon and will be using the Reef Angel controller to control the lights. There's a ton of other things it can do like temp control, pH monitoring, etc...have to see once I get it. 

How soon before the tank is on the stand?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It might this next weekend. If not, we'll have to wait a few weeks as I'm headed out of town for work again. Drats that work gets in the way of our fun huh?


----------



## tony1928

Haha, if only our fun could be our work, and we could make a good living out of it, then that would be awesome! But for now the darn day job really gets in the way.


----------



## Adz1

looks like you are making some good progress Gary.
am trying to wait paitently for the finnished pitures.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I'm hoping to get the plumbing glued together and attach to the tank for a test tonight, so I'll put up more pics then. I am hoping that the stand will be ready this weekend Daniel and I can move the tank onto the stand in the living room.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Well, Daniel came by and dropped off the stand and the two of real hauled the tank up the back stairs from the garage. Boy was it heavy.

No more to be done until tomorrow I think now, as I have company over tonight. Here are some pics. This thing is massive!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Sorry for the lousy pics, but there was a lot of furniture in the way since I was getting in place. Better pics to come as I clean it up and get the plumbing and wiring in place.


----------



## davej

Wow, that looks awesome!


----------



## Mferko

looks great


----------



## tony1928

Looking good Gary! I think a corner bowfront tank would also have looked nice in that spot!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Looking good Gary! I think a corner bowfront tank would also have looked nice in that spot!


Thanks everyone. And yes, I considered one, but it was very space inefficient, and would have been hard to photograph and you know how I like to take pictures.


----------



## CanadaPleco

Looking good bud, that stand is beauty.


----------



## target

Beat me to it eh Gary. That tank was a bear to carry. Looks good there though


----------



## thefishwife

Very nice Gary!!!


----------



## tony1928

Yup, I hear ya, acrylic drives me nuts for picture taking. Well....no lights yet too make it doubly difficult!



2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks everyone. And yes, I considered one, but it was very space inefficient, and would have been hard to photograph and you know how I like to take pictures.


----------



## Chappy

AWESOME job with the stand, Daniel - very well done. Looks great, Gary. Now you get to putter on the tank all day tomorrow


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> AWESOME job with the stand, Daniel - very well done. Looks great, Gary. Now you get to putter on the tank all day tomorrow


I wish. I only get to putter on it during nap time (for the kids, not me).


----------



## charles

i have some rare plecos , i think they will look nice in there... golden eye, blue eye, hint hint...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

One of the blue eyed L137 is already going in there.


----------



## jay_leask

looking good cant wait till it is up and running


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Slow progress, but I test fitted the plumbing and opened up the DA Reefkeeper Lite and extra PC4 and made some settings tonight before the kids took up my time. It's a pretty cool toy. I'll be gluing the plumbing tomorrow night and taking out the filter and measure the hose up and then the bulk heads will be siliconed in. I'm hoping for a test fill on Wed. If all goes well, it'll all be running on Friday and I'll be able to pick up the fish mid next week from Davej. I might put in some my fish from the 20 gallon as testers (BNP's) before that.


----------



## thefishwife

looking fwd to seeing it up and running Gary.


----------



## target

Same here. I know when you get it filled you will be excited as well. I can't wait to fill mine.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...I couldn't sleep last night so hauled out the 2078 and did a test fit. The filter clears the frame of the stand by 1". Also pulled out the GLO ballast and figured out I'll have to do some rewiring to make it reach the canopy. Yesterday afternoon I pulled the DA Reefkeeper Lite and did some programming with it, and it's very very trick. I think I"m going to really like it.

I was going to take some pictures of it all, but my wife thought I was a bit nuts rummaging around in the basement at 3 AM already, so if she saw the flash from the Nikon she'd have sent me to the looney bin.

Oh, and I found out my arms aren't long enough to reach the back corner of a 30" wide tank.  Lucky I didn't decide to go hi tech planted.


----------



## target

LOL, shoulda just taken the pictures. She already knows your nuts, might as well confirm it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Lessons learned tonight. PVC glue should be used in well ventilated place, and that it dries very fast. And test fit everything. Almost glued everything on before putting on the tank and then realized once it's glued it can't be put on the tank. 

Loc line outlet and intake strainer test fitted on tank:










Glued PVC curing. Will be siliconing the bulk heads on tomorrow night after it's all cured.


----------



## target

Some progress, nice. Looking forward to it being filled.


----------



## tony1928

Standard PVC cement is ridiculously fast which for me makes it hard to work with. I've been using Gorilla Glue pvc cement. Gives about a 3 or 4 times more working time which for a noob like me is a night and day difference. Slower curing time but I can live with that. 

Looking good though!!!! I have to admit, the most fun I had for my build was doing the actual build.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Haha....so true Tony. I can hardly wait until the kids are asleep each night so that I can get started. Water should be on Friday.


----------



## davej

2wheelsx2 said:


> Will be siliconing the bulk heads on tomorrow night after it's all cured.


Gary the rubber gaskets that come with the bulkheads should be all you need for a seal. 
At least that is all I have ever used in the past.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Dave. Yes, the gaskets on the inside should be enough, but I was told to run a small bead on the lockring on the outside to prevent it from spinning.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Once again everything took a little long than expected, as I'm afraid of my hamfistedness in breaking anything, but all the plumbing completed:


----------



## Maxxxboost

OOOoo. That is a snug fit.
LOoks good!
Can't wait to see it filled up.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yep. Very snug. But that's the beauty of a full custom build. I measured the filter and had Daniel make it just tall enough to clear at 22".


----------



## jay_leask

looks awesome


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Jay. First test fill on Friday as I have other commitments tomorrow night and plan to take Friday off. It'll be fast and furious after that.


----------



## O.C.D Fishies

Ohhhh I am getting excited, looking awesome so far. But hurry already


----------



## charles

space for the blue eye  almost almost...


----------



## thefishwife

Sweet Gary you did a great job with the plumbing! What is going into this tank? Planted?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Going low tech and lighted planted with simple plants. Sand bottom for the plecos. We'll see how it evolves. But those round flat fish are a certainty now.

And nobody wants to go faster than me at this point, but I need to work to pay for it.


----------



## target

LOL, aren't you glad I made you go for the extra height as well? Nice tight fit for your filter. The plumbing look really good. Can't wait to do mine now as I am sure you have worked out all the problems.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

target said:


> LOL, aren't you glad I made you go for the extra height as well? Nice tight fit for your filter. The plumbing look really good. Can't wait to do mine now as I am sure you have worked out all the problems.


Haha...remember that's why the stand was delayed? I had to give you the measurement for the height and someone else jumped into the "make me a stand" queue. 

Plumbing was actually super straightforward. It just took forever because I tested everything like 6 times.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> space for the blue eye  almost almost...


Bring it over and we'll test fit it too.


----------



## tang daddy

After alot of talk we finally see the tank in it's resting place, looks good Gary!!

Are you planning on adding a uv to this set up?


----------



## hp10BII

looking really good!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tang daddy said:


> After alot of talk we finally see the tank in it's resting place, looks good Gary!!
> 
> Are you planning on adding a uv to this set up?


I have an in tank JBJ Submariner I plan to run in the beginner for algae and critter control, but after that, I don't plan to. I also don't plan to run CO2 either. I want to keep this tank as simple as possible.

Do you think I should get an inline UV? Like a Pentair unit?


----------



## tang daddy

Reason why I asked if you were gonna run uv was because you wanted to add discus... While you don't need to, I would run one if you are planning that route!

I don't have too much experience with uv brands so my input is minimal but pentair makes decent units, maybe someone can chime in?


----------



## Peterchow

2wheelsx2 said:


> Once again everything took a little long than expected, as I'm afraid of my hamfistedness in breaking anything, but all the plumbing completed:


Hi Gary,

Looks very professional & spaceous !!!!
Looking forward to see your creative finished product with your many exotic plecos !!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tang daddy said:


> Reason why I asked if you were gonna run uv was because you wanted to add discus... While you don't need to, I would run one if you are planning that route!
> 
> I don't have too much experience with uv brands so my input is minimal but pentair makes decent units, maybe someone can chime in?


There seems to be a big debate on SimplyDiscus on the whole UV/no UV thing but I'm definitely going to run a unit in the beginning. Better safe than be sorry. I originally got that unit for ick, but I'm going to do the full treatment on everything I own (UV, Prazipro, flubenzadole) prior to adding any discus.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Peterchow said:


> Hi Gary,
> 
> Looks very professional & spaceous !!!!
> Looking forward to see your creative finished product with your many exotic plecos !!!!


Thanks Peter. I cleaned up the stand for the photo and then filled it all back up with junk.  It'll be cleaned up again when I'm done everything, but I still have to hook up the controller and the light ballasts in the stand.


----------



## tang daddy

Hey Gary, didn't feel like rereading your posts so thought I would just ask, what light are you planning on running with this set up 175w mh?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, it's a very long thread. And MH was in the cards for a bit, but I ended up going with 2 sets of 2x24 GLO's. If the AquaRays were out when I started this, I might have gone with that, but at this point, I don't feel like changing it (but it's still possible as I'm a month away from getting the canopy.


----------



## Chappy

That filter is a BEAST  !!!! It's getting exciting now.
By the way - I am LOVING your hardwood floors. The detailing around the edging is awesome.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> That filter is a BEAST  !!!! It's getting exciting now.
> By the way - I am LOVING your hardwood floors. The detailing around the edging is awesome.


Yeah, I almost wished I got a 2080, but it wouldn't fit in that stand, and I wasn't sure it could be direct plumbed.

Those floors are the original floors for the house and even though it's a bit beat up from the kids and having had carpet over it, I love the work on it. But it's very creaky, which drives me nuts.


----------



## Nicklfire

your at the point where you are going to fill soon? 

That's the time i was most nervous about, i had alot more plumbing then you. and then it kicked me in the ass lol

You doing other plumbing other then was i see there?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nope, it's all done. The rest of the work involves the aquascaping and electrical. I'm going to fill on Friday. Will swap out bio from my 2028 and put fish in right away after I run the filter for a couple of days to clear things up and get rid of chlorine.

I am going to run with no canopy and no real lights for a while as Daniel is building me a matching canopy. I have 2 sets of 2x24 GLO HO t5 retrofits and 2 moonlights to install.

All I have to do now is fill the tank start the filter and heater, hook up the DA controller and add the HK1 powerhead and the wood that's sitting in a tub in the bathtub. Going to a landscaping place to look for apprpropriate slate and stones on Friday or Saturday also.

And yes, mine is much simpler. If I would have gone any more complicated I would have just gone with a sump.


----------



## tony1928

Wow, that eheim barely fit under there, but for those who haven't seen that eheim, that's a beast!

I don't think the silicone will do anything, but if it makes you feel better, why not! If the water makes it past the gasket, the bead of silicone won't hold it back for long. I don't think the silicone adheres to pvc very well. 

Man, all those pics brings back memories of my own build. I still have a big bag of spare parts!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, after I put the silicone on and put it on, I realized it isn't going to make much difference. I wouldn't do it again. But only $3 wasted. 

And like you, I'm starting to accumulate spare parts....

Oh, and I positioned the Eheim that way so that I wouldn't have to crawl into the stand to lift that thing out. Even before it's full of water that thing must be 15 lbs with just the media (Ehfisubstrat pro and Ehfimech).


----------



## davej

2wheelsx2 said:


> I'm going to do the full treatment on everything I own (UV, Prazipro, flubenzadole) prior to adding any discus.


I would do your treatments after the discus are in. That way you know for sure that all are parasite free. There is always an off chance the new fish can bring in a problem. Just my thought


----------



## tony1928

I struggle with my fx5's all the time. I suppose I could predrain the fx5 with the purge valve but its too much work. 

Next step would be to plumb in an ATO system / water change system. Ah that would be a dream. Constantly having fresh water would be a pretty big advantage I would think. Nope.....gotta finish my lights first. Lol.

Can't wait to see to see the blue eye, Gary!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

davej said:


> I would do your treatments after the discus are in. That way you know for sure that all are parasite free. There is always an off chance the new fish can bring in a problem. Just my thought


The discus are going to be treated and quarantined in my 20 gallon separately, in case they have a health problem also. I don't want to bring in anything I don't already have, and the smaller volume with barebottom will be easier to observe for disease and feeding.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> I struggle with my fx5's all the time. I suppose I could predrain the fx5 with the purge valve but its too much work.
> 
> Next step would be to plumb in an ATO system / water change system. Ah that would be a dream. Constantly having fresh water would be a pretty big advantage I would think. Nope.....gotta finish my lights first. Lol.
> 
> Can't wait to see to see the blue eye, Gary!


Yeah, I thought about plumbing in a water changer, but I already use the safety siphon (but I have to make a new one because of the Euro bracing, so off to Corix soon too). I know how much hassle it is to get an FX5 out, as the 125 stand has a lip. That's why this one is nice - no lip, just slide straight out. 

And you and me both want to see the blue eye, but it's not me that reserved it!


----------



## target

To make it even easier to move, get some of the felt pads we put on the bottom of the stand and stick them to the underside of the filter. Then it'll slide really nicely and won't scratch up the paint job.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

They actually have rubber pads underneath to keep it from sliding.  It's pretty easy as it is. The paint already got messed up a bit as I put that foam pad it there and some of it came off.


----------



## target

lol, no worries. I have more white paint. I'll bring it when I get the canopy done


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Daniel. I plan to scrape off that other stuff tonight anyway. It comes right off, so I might not need to repaint.


----------



## tony1928

Gary, if you want you could put on some stick on linoleum tiles on the base. Easy as pie and things slide and resists water as well. Easy cleanup. 

As for the blue eye....I'm sure you could twist Charles' arm a bit....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The moment of truth has begun:










At the lower bulkhead (intake):










Half full with wood in the tank:










Rough wood layout:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Overconfidence. Lower bulkhead started leaking at halfway mark. Maybe bulkhead was not tightened enough. Draining now.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Boy am I angry with myself. Looks like the bulkhead locknut backed out a bit, so I drained the whole thing (Asian discus farm style with my gravel vac) and am now trying again, after loosening and re-tightening the nuts. Looks like you guys were right (Davej and Tony I think), the silicone does nothing. Doesn't stick.


----------



## davej

Try tightening it without the water in the tank. That way you can see if you are successful in your efforts


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Dave. That did it. It's halfway and holding now.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Success! 2078 running now. Sorry for the lousy pic, but no way to get a good one with all the bubbles. Done for the night. Fish transfers on Sunday I think.


----------



## jay_leask

looks good, going to be a sweet set-up. ill be tuning in sunday from work to see the new tenants


----------



## thefishwife

Woo Hoo Gary!!! I really like the wood in there. Going barebottom are you? discus?


----------



## target

Looking good. Glad to see it filled and not leaking. Can't wait to see the fish in there.


----------



## tony1928

Looks awesome man. I think when I was doing my bulkheads they also initially leaked. Rastapus told me to wet the gasket first before tightening and that worked for me. Looking forward to seeing the inhabitants enjoying their new home!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jay_leask said:


> looks good, going to be a sweet set-up. ill be tuning in sunday from work to see the new tenants


Going discus, but not barebottom. I ordered 50 lbs of Estes white quartz sand but it's not here yet. 



target said:


> Looking good. Glad to see it filled and not leaking. Can't wait to see the fish in there.


Yeah, it was a bit nerve wracking as I waited until the kids were asleep and the wife was out, so when it leaked a bit I did a bit of a Chinese fire drill. But Tony's advice below is sound, I think that's why it leaked. The gaskets need to be wet before tightening.



thefishwife said:


> Woo Hoo Gary!!! I really like the wood in there. Going barebottom are you? discus?


Going discus, but not barebottomed. I want some Blue Scorpions! I ordered Estes white quartz sand from J&L but it's not in yet, so I thought I would get going and add the sand once it's all going. Only 50 lbs of sand, so no planting in the substrate.



tony1928 said:


> Looks awesome man. I think when I was doing my bulkheads they also initially leaked. Rastapus told me to wet the gasket first before tightening and that worked for me. Looking forward to seeing the inhabitants enjoying their new home!


Thanks. I think that's what fixed it. When I drained and refilled the gaskets were wet. And I also locked it down tighter based on Davej's advice.

Got the DA controller working with the 2078 and the Hydor heater now. Will be adding the HK1, as I definitely need more flow. Now to find permanent mounting locations for everything.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Threw an extra 300w visitherm heater in there to get the tank up to 24 C. Put on a PRO 28 w light and a single Eco Plus moonlight on there to see in the tank and test the light timers. Added the HK1 also.


----------



## O.C.D Fishies

Gary it looks amazing. I love the dark background, going to make your discus colors pop. Will be waiting not so patiently for sunday.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Well, I managed to overflow the buckets from my 15 gallon onto my hardwood floors.  Anyway, decided to take the whole tank down to catch all the fish. 7 L333, 3 L066, 4 calico bristlenose, 5 Sterbai cories, 6 Emperor tetras and 5 black neons.

Sorry, the water is a bit murky from adding the fish and the cycled media, but I didn't want to wait.


----------



## thefishwife

Looks fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant wait to see the discus in there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, I'm liking that 30" depth a lot. Even my non-fish wife was impressed with it. Excuse the ghetto lights...that's gotta wait until I have the canopy together. Hopefully the sand comes in soon too. Not a huge fan of bare bottom.


----------



## Chappy

Love it, Gary!! That's going to be one sweet looking set-up.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Shelley. I can't believe how much aquacaping one can do with a 30" wide tank. I gotta get those rocks and slate in there and then see if I need more wood, as it still appears a bit empty.  I can hardly see any fish in there even though there are over 20 in there.


----------



## davej

Hey Gary, lets see some whole tank shots!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

This one's for you Dave!

Full tank shots are not so great as the depth (gotta let the Purigen do its work) and the bubbles from the fillup make for poor pics.


----------



## bonsai dave

The tank is looking great . Can't wait to see it when you add discus to it.. Great Job


----------



## discuspaul

Gary,
That's going to be one super sweet-looking tank !
When does the sand come ? ! And the discus !!!!
Is it going to be BK's or BS's ? 
As I've said before on another thread post, can't wait to see the end product - is that not till next week-end ?
Paul


----------



## Adz1

Gary this is one great looking tank.
hwere did you get the great wood from?
also looking forward to seeing it with discus in it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

emile said:


> Gary,
> That's going to be one super sweet-looking tank !
> When does the sand come ? ! And the discus !!!!
> Is it going to be BK's or BS's ?
> As I've said before on another thread post, can't wait to see the end product - is that not till next week-end ?
> Paul


First things first. Gotta get those L134's and L47's in the tank from Davej. Then add one L137, then I'll be getting some more Sterbai and Black Neons I think, before I add discus. At this point, I'm even considering wilds.



Adz1 said:


> Gary this is one great looking tank.
> hwere did you get the great wood from?
> also looking forward to seeing it with discus in it.


Thanks Adrian. Every piece of wood in that tank is from 4 different trips to April's. It's all manzanita. But I think I want some Mopani also depending on how it works out after I add the rocks and sand.


----------



## davej

Looking good, I am going to have to hand deliver the rest of your plecos and get a look at it in person. ッ


----------



## 2wheelsx2

You're certainly welcome to Dave. I got those wafers for you too.


----------



## charles

once you see my mopani wood tank, you might change your mind


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> once you see my mopani wood tank, you might change your mind


Hahaha...could be...could be.


----------



## tony1928

The depth of the tank is awesome. You could pretty much do whatever kind of scaping you want and there would still be room for the fish! You could even do those aquaterra backgrounds and have room to spare.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, that's my favourite part. It's soooo much more 3D than any other tank I've had.


----------



## Adz1

davej said:


> Looking good, I am going to have to hand deliver the rest of your plecos and get a look at it in person. ッ


Maybe i could come for the ride Dave and get a first hand look also.
would love to see this tank in person.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Adz1 said:


> Maybe i could come for the ride Dave and get a first hand look also.
> would love to see this tank in person.


You're welcome to come any time when I'm home, Adrian. Got a business trip to the US this week, though, hence the rush to get the fish going in there.


----------



## Peterchow

2wheelsx2 said:


> Well, I managed to overflow the buckets from my 15 gallon onto my hardwood floors.  Anyway, decided to take the whole tank down to catch all the fish. 7 L333, 3 L066, 4 calico bristlenose, 5 Sterbai cories, 6 Emperor tetras and 5 black neons.
> 
> Sorry, the water is a bit murky from adding the fish and the cycled media, but I didn't want to wait.


Looking good, Gary !!!!!!

Praise the LORD !!!!! I know it is a challenge to run a young family as well as maintaining your continuous passion for this hobby, but will all turn out good at the end.


----------



## mysticalnet

wow, how did I manage to miss this 24 page thread?


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> At this point, I'm even considering wilds.


Is there any other kind of discus?  If you need any convincing, dig up that tefe only tank thread. That should solve that!!!! I STILL haven't stopped thinking of that thread - probably due to the empty 50 gallon tank sitting in my living room which I can't avoid looking at every day


----------



## 2wheelsx2

mysticalnet said:


> wow, how did I manage to miss this 24 page thread?


Probably because the first 20 pages were all talk and no action. 



-N/A- said:


> Is there any other kind of discus?  If you need any convincing, dig up that tefe only tank thread. That should solve that!!!! I STILL haven't stopped thinking of that thread - probably due to the empty 50 gallon tank sitting in my living room which I can't avoid looking at every day


Do it. Do eeet! Besides all the humidity is good for your skin!

So, I've been slowly raising the temperature in the tank. It's now up to 26 degrees C. I'm going to raise it 2 more degrees to 28 before I think about adding any flat fish.


----------



## jay_leask

the tank looks awesome, congrats!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jay_leask said:


> the tank looks awesome, congrats!


Thanks Jay. Wait until you see the canopy Daniel is building for it. I'm integrating the 24" T5HO and moonlights into that. I've got the Ecoplus moonlights jury-rigged on it now and it looks even more awesome when the moonlights are on...it's pleco heaven.


----------



## target

Looking really good Gary. I also want to see the finished product in person. Prolly when I deliver the canopy


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yay! Jeff just called and my sand is in, but boo, I'm leaving town tomorrow on a business trip. On a positive note, I was just at Northwest Landscaping and got some great rocks (about 25 lbs worth to scape with). Yes, the geeky geologist strikes again!


----------



## Luke78

Whats the colour of the sand your going with ? and how much u adding? Looks like the fun is just beginning for you.


----------



## crazy72

Looking fantastic Gary. And the neons and tetras certainly look like a happy bunch in there at the moment!


----------



## discuspaul

The pics of the finished tank are going to be a great revelation to all of us !!
I just know right now that it's going to be stunning ! Can't wait to see it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Whats the colour of the sand your going with ? and how much u adding? Looks like the fun is just beginning for you.


The sand is going to be white. Estes white quartz. I'm adding just 50 lbs. Just enough to cover the bottom, so there will be no rooted plants at this point. I may change my mind later. I am thinking solely Anubias of various types, maybe Bolbitis and Needle Leaf Java fern at this point.



crazy72 said:


> Looking fantastic Gary. And the neons and tetras certainly look like a happy bunch in there at the moment!


Thanks Franck. It's interesting the behaviour of the tetras in a tank of this width and depth. They sometimes swim vertically against the current, which I had never seen before.



emile said:


> The pics of the finished tank are going to be a great revelation to all of us !!
> I just know right now that it's going to be stunning ! Can't wait to see it.


Thanks Paul. It's evolving a bit as I put it together and learn, so I am going to be as surprised as everyone else when it's done, I think.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Put in the rocks from Northwest Landscaping tonight. Really loving the look. Might not put any caves in there except in the back.










And reverse angle.


----------



## djamm

I really like it! I wouldn't add the caves if I were you...there is enough places under the wood! That photo has a lot of depth, I can only imagine how good it looks in person!

Cheers


----------



## Chappy

Ooooooooohhhh - very, VERY nice, Gary. I can see the wilds already


----------



## gklaw

A few nylon nail on gliders are cheap at hardware store  
I usually put a few levelling gliders in to help level the tank as well.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

djamm said:


> I really like it! I wouldn't add the caves if I were you...there is enough places under the wood! That photo has a lot of depth, I can only imagine how good it looks in person!


There's actually a cave under one of the stumps, you just can't see it. That's how I plan to have a few in there, under the stumps.

Thanks, I am really enjoying the depth of this 30" tank.



-N/A- said:


> Ooooooooohhhh - very, VERY nice, Gary. I can see the wilds already


Hahaha...you and me both Shelley.


----------



## jay_leask

lookin pretty sweet with the new rocks


----------



## jay_leask

doesnt look too bad just bare bottom


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I need to take a top view. From the regular viewing angle it looks even better. I just wanted to show how it was stacked.


----------



## charles

you need a 6" Blue eye panaque in there. I know where you can get one.


----------



## Chappy

charles said:


> you need a 6" Blue eye panaque in there. I know where you can get one.


You are simply AMAZING  You just won't let up on talking Gary into putting an old blue eye in that tank will you??!!!


----------



## charles

oh no, the bigger blue eye is gone to a good hobbyist already. I ordered this new 6" one cause Gary said 10-12" is too big for his cube...


----------



## jobber

had to take a look gary's new project thread. loving it. those sterbai's colours are looking sharp. any videos in the forseeable future?


----------



## target

Looking good Gary. I love the rocks.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> You are simply AMAZING  You just won't let up on talking Gary into putting an old blue eye in that tank will you??!!!


Nope, he's certainly determined.  But since this is a discus tank and full of Hypans and Peckoltia, I won't be putting a Panaque in there, that's just asking for trouble with digestion and bloat.



charles said:


> oh no, the bigger blue eye is gone to a good hobbyist already. I ordered this new 6" one cause Gary said 10-12" is too big for his cube...


Hahaha...as always Charles, you're the man! Doesn't mean I'll get one, though. 



jobber604 said:


> had to take a look gary's new project thread. loving it. those sterbai's colours are looking sharp. any videos in the forseeable future?


Thanks, Ming. I'm going to try and get a video once I get the sand in there and the L134's and L47's in there. If I video'd now, you'd see nothing but a bare tank. 



target said:


> Looking good Gary. I love the rocks.


Yeah, those are the ones I told you about. I'll pick you up a bunch over the holidays.


----------



## tony1928

Gary that just looks phenomenal. Those rocks...rock.  That's also my fave landscape shop to go to for aquascaping. I've spent hours out there digging around in their piles looking for the ideal rock. Can't wait to see the white sand in there. The depth of that tank really lets you create a real scape. Lovin it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Gary that just looks phenomenal. Those rocks...rock.  That's also my fave landscape shop to go to for aquascaping. I've spent hours out there digging around in their piles looking for the ideal rock. Can't wait to see the white sand in there. The depth of that tank really lets you create a real scape. Lovin it.


Thanks Tony. Since I am a geologist, picking rocks is what I like to do (wife thinks I'm nuts). 

There's actually another landscaping place further south on Byrne Road I want to try, as I still need more, but I haven't had time to check it out.


----------



## tang daddy

Very tastefully done Gary, now add some plants!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Chris. I'm still undecided how many plants I want to do. I also don't have the proper lighting since I can only light the corners until next year when my canopy is ready, so am not ready for too many plants yet (hence the floating ones for now). But there will be enough for contrast and for the plecos to nibble at.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks Chris. I'm still undecided how many plants I want to do. I also don't have the proper lighting since I can only light the corners until next year when my canopy is ready, so am not ready for too many plants yet (hence the floating ones for now). But there will be enough for contrast and for the plecos to nibble at.


Why not fill it with a couple dozen of these 
Glo Combo
I think they even glow in the dark


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Why not fill it with a couple dozen of these
> Glo Combo
> I think they even glow in the dark


I'll do that when you only do water changes once a month.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> I'll do that when you only do water changes once a month.


It's a DEAL, Gary


----------



## charles

lol... once a month... i doubt that


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> lol... once a month... i doubt that


Yep, that's why it's unlikely I'll be putting glow in the dark plastic plants in my tanks.


----------



## target

those plants are bad. I've used fake plants before but even then really wanted a natural look. Flourescent colours just don't do it in a tank for me.


----------



## jobber

gary, what type of lighting are you using for this tank? are you going with LEDs?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> gary, what type of lighting are you using for this tank? are you going with LEDs?


Thought about it a bit, but not cost effective yet. Going with GLO retrofit T5HO (2 sets of 2x24w) and 2 LED moonlights. This tank won't be heavily planted.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

So I picked up the sand and managed to cleaned up 15 lbs before the family came home. Cleaning is not really the right word. I just put some water in a bucket with the sand and poured the water back out since it was clear.

Here's the sand - 10 bags of 5 lbs:










Water just added to the bucket. See how it's clear?










And the 15 lbs in the tank. I don't think I'll end up using all 50 lbs. Probably another 10 or 20 lbs and I'll be done.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Oh yeah, forgot to add that I managed to catch the 5 rummy nose from the 20 gallon and they are in there. Everyone seems happier with the sand in the tank.


----------



## thefishwife

It does look nicer with the sand, and I am sure the inhibitants are happy with it! 

Why sand Gary?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Plecos, cories and discus all prefer a sand substrate, and since I was going for a biotope, I went for sand. The white offsets the black background and makes the foreground much brighter.

Finally, since I am using epiphytes and few rooted plants in the sparse planting scheme, sand is also cheap.


----------



## Luke78

So true , they will rearrange it to their own liking , so dont be surprised to see the ocassional bare spot sticking out I have found sand easier to clean as well, and it hasnt altered any of the water values.What are your choices for plants ? noticed a few bits already in there.Starting to take shape , looks great !



2wheelsx2 said:


> Plecos, cories and discus all prefer a sand substrate, and since I was going for a biotope, I went for sand. The white offsets the black background and makes the foreground much brighter.
> 
> Finally, since I am using epiphytes and few rooted plants in the sparse planting scheme, sand is also cheap.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I salvaged a few plants from the 15 gallon. There are a couple of Anubias nana in there along with some Ludwigia Repens floating until I get enough sand in there. I have a couple of gigantic Aponogetons in there, and probably a few crypts and needle leaf java fern and I'm done.

There are already some bare spots from the plecos, so I'm adding another 15 lbs of sand right now.

Also added the JBJ submariner 13w UV in there, with the venturi on, to try and get rid of some of the surface scum from the manzanita.


----------



## discuspaul

Well Gary - It sure is coming along very nicely - took a while, as you have pointed out previously, but absolutely no doubt it will be worth it all in the end !
That planted tank with that sand & some good-looking discus - what a masterpiece I'm sure it will be. Pics - next week ?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Probably more pics tomorrow after a water change, as the tannins from the wood is making the tank hard to focus. Davej just brought the L134 and L47 over too, along with some Calico long finned bristlenose. So now I have fish to photograph. 

But the discus is going to depend on April because I'm holding out for wilds now.


----------



## discuspaul

Yeah, I can understand why. Saw Shelley's pics of wilds & they are superb. If you get some like that, your tank will definitely be a huge conversation piece, apart from all the oohing & aahing you're going to get !


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Wait til you guys see the Leopard Frogs (L134's). And also picked up 8 more black neons from Bowman00.


----------



## Chappy

Looking good, Gary! Saw the sand when I was at J&L today; nice. 
Hey, you should see this really neat L128 I got from Charles yesterday  !!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Stop teasing and show the pics. Or I won't post any discus pics when I get them.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Stop teasing and show the pics. Or I won't post any discus pics when I get them.


She is sleeping but I'll try to post tonight.


----------



## davej

I got a chance to see Gary's tank today. It looks awesome!
What a great footprint for a tank. It leaves so many options open for aqua-scapeing.
Cant wait to see it with some discus in it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks again for bringing the plecos Dave, and for holding them for 4 months. 

After you left, I thought about your comment about the filter and I couldn't sleep last night, so I took the filter down and there was a big air bubble in the hose, plus the media was already filthy from all the stuff stirred up during the setup. After cleaning and repriming, it's working like a champ now. This is one of those reasons why I didn't want to set up the tank and then go away for a week. Those unforeseen things could have killed all the fish....


----------



## davej

Posted this in my pleco thread but I thought I would post it here as well for you. This morning one of the L134's had his lady trapped in the cave and wasnt letting her out.
Fingers are crossed. Looks like they me be maturing and ready to go 
Good to hear you figure out that filter, there was nowhere near enough flow for one that size.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That's very cool. And the male is surprisingly non-hairy. Hope it gets going for you. Yeah, the filter is working much better. 

Got another 10 lbs of sand in the tank, and ripped out a bunch more plants from the 20 gallon and put it in the cube. Also the light diffuser from Rona, so once the water clears a bit more (changed 40 gallons of water today), I'll take some pics and post them up. It's starting to look like a real show tank now instead of a holding tank.


----------



## davej

2wheelsx2 said:


> That's very cool. And the male is surprisingly non-hairy.


Non-hairiness on that guy could be just the lack of detail because I was zoomed in with the iPhone to get that picture.
Lets just hope it is a sign of things to come.


----------



## bunnyrabbit

Looks promising. Good Luck.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

As hinted at earlier, here's the tank after the 10 lbs of sand for a total of 40 lbs, and plants (Anubias, Aponogeton species in the back, some small jungle vals, and Ludwigia repens. Sorry for the bubbles, but I decided to run the UV sterilizer at least for the first few weeks even if it's only for algae.










Black neon tetras:










Long finned calico bristlenose (about 3/4"):










Sterbai Corydoras working on some frozen bloodworms:










Male Emperor tetra in full display:


----------



## Diztrbd1

looks great Gary! Those costly lil black neons look nice in there. How many emporer's you have in there? I really like those guys, want to get more of those myself as the first group I had all died on me. Again ...looks great!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks John. I love the black neons. And I have 2 male Emperors and 4 females and a juvie that was spawned and grew up in my 15 gallon. I think I'm going to get more black neons and rummies for 2 separate schools.


----------



## Chappy

See? Told you it would all be worth it! Looks wonderful, Gary. Must be nice to see it all set up and running with fish. Now to see it with wild discus  I heard a rumour ......


----------



## jobber

wow. quite the amazon biotope. the fish look uber happy in there!


----------



## target

Looking good Gary. Can't wait for the discus.


----------



## thefishwife

Beautiful Gary!!! The plants look great.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> See? Told you it would all be worth it! Looks wonderful, Gary. Must be nice to see it all set up and running with fish. Now to see it with wild discus  I heard a rumour ......


Yes, I heard that rumour too.  And it is worth. Even my non-fish-loving wife commented on how she's liking this tank. 



jobber604 said:


> wow. quite the amazon biotope. the fish look uber happy in there!


Yeah, they seem to all have coloured up nicely. Now I just gotta rig up proper lighting so I can photograph them properly.



target said:


> Looking good Gary. Can't wait for the discus.


Me either. I guess those errant cherry shrimps in the tank are going to disappear though. 



thefishwife said:


> Beautiful Gary!!! The plants look great.


Thanks Kim. The best part is that the plants cost me nothing. I was originally going to buy all kinds of plants for it, but I don't think I need to, as a light bleach dip took care of the BBA on the plants and I'm going to keep it sparsely planted.


----------



## Peterchow

Beautiful shots, especially the first one with the bubble !!!!!
Your future addition of discus will definitely mix well with your current landscaping + setting, further enhancing your tank's uniqueness.
Thanks again for your sharing, Gary !!!!!


----------



## charles

all you need is to pick up the 6" blue eye panaque from here to complete the tank.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Peterchow said:


> Beautiful shots, especially the first one with the bubble !!!!!
> Your future addition of discus will definitely mix well with your current landscaping + setting, further enhancing your tank's uniqueness.
> Thanks again for your sharing, Gary !!!!!


Thanks Peter. Yes, it's becoming quite a show piece. I'm glad I went with J&L for the tank, as I've seen some other "show tanks" and the build quality was quite poor.



charles said:


> all you need is to pick up the 6" blue eye panaque from here to complete the tank.


That's going in the 125, remember, since this tank is going to have discus.


----------



## target

He finally broke you down eh? When's the blue eye coming home?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It's not. One cheeky comments deserves another.  Unless Charles does BEP leasing.


----------



## charles

I am taking his JD + chocolate for $10 credit toward the 6" blue eye... and Gary could not be happlier


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I used to sell audio equipment at a healthy margin Charles. So $75 each for the EBJD's and $10 for the regular JD, and throw in a coupla Blue Phantoms spotted in the tail and I'll take the Blue Eye home.


----------



## charles

since you are getting the blue eye panaque, you should also get some geo. to replace your JD and chocolate... what a good mix... you will thank me


----------



## Chappy

You can get Blue Phantoms with spotting in the tail???


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> You can get Blue Phantoms with spotting in the tail???


You mean like this? 










Took a couple of money shots of the tank tonight. Reverse angle of how I usually shoot this tank (because you can see the UV sterilizer from this angle):










And this is how it appears to people who walk into my living room:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

And now, for people who don't think plecos need wood (this tank has no panaque, just BNP's , Hypans, Pekoltia and Baryancistrus, none of which are wood grazers):


----------



## Peterchow

Beautiful shots, Gary !!!!

Keep posting !!!!!


----------



## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> And now, for people who don't think plecos need wood (this tank has no panaque, just BNP's , Hypans, Pekoltia and Baryancistrus, none of which are wood grazers):


He he good shot Gary. That's where it pays off to have white sand!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> He he good shot Gary. That's where it pays off to have white sand!


Yeah, considering I just vacuuming yesterday, that's quite the buildup. And I don't have any plecos greater 3 inches or so in there.


----------



## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> Yeah, considering I just vacuuming yesterday, that's quite the buildup. And I don't have any plecos greater 3 inches or so in there.


Still. The white sand is worth it IMO. It looks beautiful in there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> Still. The white sand is worth it IMO. It looks beautiful in there.


Thanks Franck. It's combination that works for me because the black background hides the intakes outlets/pumps as long as they're black. If the substrate was also dark the tank would be very gloomy. As it is, it makes the tank just the level of brightness without having to use gigawatts of lights. I plan to stagger 2 sets of 2x24w T5HO's so the tank will mainly be lit by 50 watts at a time (which is about what is on there now with a PC 24 watter and a T5NO 28 watter with poor reflectors), so it won't be much brighter than this. I may decide to supplement with LED's later on if it's not enough, or overlap the lights a bit more in timing, but I want to keep the light low for the comfort of the catfish and the growth low for less work for me.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Bet you guys never saw a 100 gallon Cherry shrimp tank before!










One posing beside an L134:










Slightly better view of the L134 (they're still all hiding):


----------



## jobber

I think that's the first i've seen a 100 gallon red cherry shrimp tank. Wonder if visitors would be able to spot them!

love the pictures!


----------



## thefishwife

Excellent photo's gary. I can see now why you wanted the white sand, looks awesome and certainly flows with the rest of the tank. 

Pleco poop yay!!!!! hehehehe


----------



## Peterchow

jobber604 said:


> I think that's the first i've seen a 100 gallon red cherry shrimp tank. Wonder if visitors would be able to spot them!
> 
> love the pictures!


They will soon breed in millions, living in this paradise !!!!!

Gary, you might need to upgrade to a bigger tank soon once your shrimps & plecos start increasing their population.


----------



## shaobo

Tank is developing really fast and nicely since it's filled~~ can't wait to see more updates...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

shaobo said:


> Tank is developing really fast and nicely since it's filled~~ can't wait to see more updates...


Probably not going to be too many updates until April brings in some of those flat fish.


----------



## jay_leask

2wheelsx2 said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took a couple of money shots of the tank tonight. Reverse angle of how I usually shoot this tank (because you can see the UV sterilizer from this angle):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how it appears to people who walk into my living room:


i dont know how many times i will say it but simply amazing


----------



## katienaha

I really like this too! The contrast is great


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jay_leask said:


> i dont know how many times i will say it but simply amazing


Thanks, Jay. I think part of the success is the long delay that I had in getting the tank up, so I had lots of time to think about the setup and what I wanted to do with it. I can tell you that it's a lot different than when I first envisioned the tank.


----------



## jobber

If discus are coming, the shrimp population may not be that big.
I just had to come here to look at the pictures for some inspiration...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> If discus are coming, the shrimp population may not be that big.
> I just had to come here to look at the pictures for some inspiration...


There are lots of nooks and crannies for everything to hide, but I don't think they'll survive. They were just hitchhikers when Dave and I were catching the fish since we both have shrimp in our tanks.


----------



## Diztrbd1

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks John. I love the black neons. And I have 2 male Emperors and 4 females and a juvie that was spawned and grew up in my 15 gallon. I think I'm going to get more black neons and rummies for 2 separate schools.


Black Neons are my fav neon ...very hardy and active . I think they are a great combo with the emporers in there. Cool to hear your Emporers spawned. Mine didn't live long enough to think about it lol I will be switching out my 33 with my 50 before long and plan on getting a nice shoal of both too. Each time I come to this thread, your tank looks more & more amazing......great job! And that blue Phantom is just gorgeous too. You should make room for that 1400 gal I seen goin up for sale 
Also is that a L134 in the BCA banner? Kinda, sorta, maybe looks like the one in your pix lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> Black Neons are my fav neon ...very hardy and active . I think they are a great combo with the emporers in there. Cool to hear your Emporers spawned. Mine didn't live long enough to think about it lol I will be switching out my 33 with my 50 before long and plan on getting a nice shoal of both too. Each time I come to this thread, your tank looks more & more amazing......great job! And that blue Phantom is just gorgeous too. You should make room for that 1400 gal I seen goin up for sale
> Also is that a L134 in the BCA banner? Kinda, sorta, maybe looks like the one in your pix lol


Yeah, the only bad part is that the black neons and emporers do not display well against the black background.

Hahaha...if I got another tank, I'm headed for a divorce. 

Yes, that's an L134 in the banner.


----------



## Diztrbd1

lol no they do not show up well with a black background, I wanted to do black sand in my next big tank, but I would be putting a red tailed black shark in there and thot , I will only be able to see a red tail swimming around lol

lol I hear ya about another tank, I'm at my limit too , 1 more bigger tank and I will have to get rid of a roomie and turn that room into a aqua sanctuary lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Shot a video tonight, although it's a bit grainy because it's dark. Notice how the sterbai shoal together nicely and so do the rummy nose (on the left near the end of the video. There is no cropping of the vid. It's a curtain on the right and the edge of the tank to the left.


----------



## jobber

Yippeeee~ A video. sweet. Thanks Gary.
That's right, i'm still admiring the pics on this post.

it's amazing how fast the tank seem 'grown in' and get established. it's very noticeable. it seems like you've had this tank running for half a year!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks. I took that vid for you and John. The plants are a straight transfer from 2 other tanks, so there was no acclimation. The wood has been soaking for 6 weeks so are fully waterlogged. Anubias are aquaglued so no fasteners to hide.


----------



## jobber

The video just made my day!
Those sterbai's and rummynose's look so healthy and happy in your tank (you get them at canadian aquatics?). I need to get a jumpstart on mine soon. 
There's a picture of th red eye emperor tetras...those are beautiful. 
I think the way you have the lighting is perfect. You have the column of light coming through exactly like in the rainforest. 
I think the only thing that 'may' be missing are a some 'amazon type' plants that 'may' be in our tanks in a few weeks time *ahem*.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Forgot to mention that the UV sterilizer seems to really help clarify the tank. I think it's a tool I was always missing in the past.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Those sterbai's and rummynose's look so healthy and happy in your tank (you get them at canadian aquatics?). I need to get a jumpstart on mine soon.
> 
> There's a picture of th red eye emperor tetras...those are beautiful.
> 
> I think the way you have the lighting is perfect. You have the column of light coming through exactly like the rainforest.


My rummies are from Kole when he was part of CA and the Sterbai are from Cypho. Both very good sources. But I will be getting more from Pat this time around, along with more black neons.

My emperors are the blue eye ones. I have seen the eye ones and they are very nice. No one seems to have Emperors right now, or I may reconsider. One thing though is that they are not very good schoolers and they can be vicious to shrimp and the males to each other.

The rummies have really reddened up now that they are out of the CO2 injected tank and the temp is up at 26.5 C instead of 25.

The lighting is temporary (I have light diffuser from Rona as a lid and 2 left over lights on it right now, but yes, when I'm done that's the effect I am going for, not blazingly bright, and I want shadows in different places. The fish seem to like that.


----------



## jobber

so that's why your water is crystal clear. I thought you'd be running on only purigen. maybe a UV sterilizer as a boxing day present for myself in the works.


----------



## jobber

those rummy nose have such red noses. sterbai's look very well aged too. 
look like they're in spawning mode from the way they're exploring the tank. 
you have a good mix of fauna in 'da cube'. planning to have any hatchets on the top?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> so that's why your water is crystal clear. I thought you'd be running on only purigen. maybe a UV sterilizer as a boxing day present for myself in the works.


The Purigen and the plants were all I was relying on in the beginning, and then I remembered the UV sitting BNIB in my closet that I got a while back.  I think adding the sand helped too, as there is more surface area for bio.



jobber604 said:


> those rummy nose have such red noses. sterbai's look very well aged too.
> look like they're in spawning mode from the way they're exploring the tank.
> you have a good mix of fauna in 'da cube'. planning to have any hatchets on the top?


That's what I thought too, that they were in spawning mode, but then none of them look chubby enough.

No more hatchets for me. Even though I really love them, they're suicidal jumpers. Charles are giving me a hard time for not having top fish, but most of the time I view that tank standing up so I don't see the top anyway.


----------



## jobber

hatchets would be a good addition. i'd thought about them too for my lil project, but like you said, we don't want any dried salty fish on the ground somewhere.

i wouldn't be too surprised if you started seeing sterbai eggs in the leaves. you can trigger the cories with shrimp pellets, algae wafers...just variety and high protein. looks can be deceiving. my pandas didn't look like they were ready, low and behind, looking for snails and found cory eggs. 

the sterbais look great schooling around like that. i've already admiring the video 6 times already.....boy, john is missing out right now.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha.....you fish junky you. Yeah, my wife was still sweeping up dried hatchets 6 months after the last one disappeared. She told me never to get them again!

I fed them bloodworms on the weekend, and a variety of veggies, like shelled peas, yams (they probably don't eat that), NLS pellets, and different algae wafers every week because of the plecos. Maybe that's what's doing it.  Going to get some live blackworm this week and see what happens.


----------



## EDGE

Love the layout of the tank. Do you have a lot of water flow/movement in the tank? The sand looks real clean


----------



## jobber

i've turned from an addict to a junkie now. but at least i don't have MTS. I do have a bit, just a bit, of BTS (big tank...). Mrs.2wheelsx2 must so choked...i can't imagine her reaction when she sees a "dried salty fish" on the ground. too bad, can't eat this type with rice.

oh buddy, you'll be a corydora breeder soon enough. you're treating 'em way too good. I wish i was a pleco or corydora now. I'm glad i'm chosing black sand, gives me the option to feed live blackworms without them burrowing into the substrate. I'm glad i asked around for substrate choices.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

EDGE said:


> Love the layout of the tank. Do you have a lot of water flow/movement in the tank? The sand looks real clean


Thanks, yes, there's quite a bit of flow. Eheim 2078 exiting through the top back corner via locline with a wedge outflow, a 13 w JBJ UV sterilizer front left and a HK1 lower right, all working in a counterclockwise direction. I set it up to maximize gas exchange for the catfish and the soon to be discus, since the tank temps will be in the high 20's.



jobber604 said:


> oh buddy, you'll be a corydora breeder soon enough. you're treating 'em way too good. I wish i was a pleco or corydora now. I'm glad i'm chosing black sand, gives me the option to feed live blackworms without them burrowing into the substrate. I'm glad i asked around for substrate choices.


My agassizi's dig right through the gravel to get any left over blackworm so they don't live in the gravel too long, so no matter what substrate you use, if you have cories, that's not going to be a problem.


----------



## tony1928

Looking very nice Gary. Are you going to be running the UV full time? I'm debating that for myself. Seems like a good precaution for sure. At least the JBJ looks aesthetically somewhat decent. The other Green Killing Machine is so damn ugly...must be designed by the same guys who did the Pontiac Aztec.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Looking very nice Gary. Are you going to be running the UV full time? I'm debating that for myself. Seems like a good precaution for sure. At least the JBJ looks aesthetically somewhat decent. The other Green Killing Machine is so damn ugly...must be designed by the same guys who did the Pontiac Aztec.


Bwhahahaha...no I don't plan on running it full time. Just when I introduce fish. I do plan on adding another powerhead though, and unfortunately it will have to be an HK because the Maxijets are grey and would show up against the black background. I'll probably get an HK2 during boxing week, or steal the one from my 125 gallon. 

I am planning to get more tetras and cories this week and then discus in the new year, and I'll run the UV and then I'll pull the UV and treat everyone for everything under the sun as precaution.


----------



## tony1928

If you want black and unobtrusive is your objective, then perhaps a Vortech? 

I like the HK's for diffuse flow too....the damn cord I don't like much but I can't justify the Vortech.........yet. LOL. It's alot of money to hide a cord.

I'm toying with an L046 project and I'm going to try the Customflo plumbing kit to get some flow at just above the substrate level.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I do plan on adding another powerhead though, and unfortunately it will have to be an HK because the Maxijets are grey and would show up against the black background. I'll probably get an HK2 during boxing week, or steal the one from my 125 gallon.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> If you want black and unobtrusive is your objective, then perhaps a Vortech?
> 
> I like the HK's for diffuse flow too....the damn cord I don't like much but I can't justify the Vortech.........yet. LOL. It's alot of money to hide a cord.
> 
> I'm toying with an L046 project and I'm going to try the Customflo plumbing kit to get some flow at just above the substrate level.


Yikes, I just looked those up and $300 is a bit steep.

I can deal with the cord since I'm putting them in the corner. They won't be visible. The HK1 will go near the surface to "ripple" it and the HK2 would go down low to get current to the plecos. I find the Maxijets with the Sureflow mod too concentrated (especially with sand) so needs to be bounced off something so I don't think I want to do that in this tank.

That custom flo kit looks interesting. I think now that I've gotten over the initial squeamishness of drilling a tank, the next one I do will have multiple holes with closed loop setups for flow at different levels and also so I can run heaters, more filters and UV sterilizers all outside of the tank, ie, I'll be sumping.


----------



## charles

dont get him buying expensive equipment. He spent enough for the blue eye already.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Not yet. And I can get a few Vortech's for that Blue Eye price.....hmmm......


----------



## tony1928

I agree with the maxijet with sureflow.....its much too strong and direct. It's a bargain for the amount of flow you get but just not for this application. With my maxi1200 with sureflow, I could get massive flow right across my 8 footer...you'd have a sandstorm.


----------



## target

lol, great. I purchased one of those for my 90 as well. Guess I'll have to wait and see if its too much flow.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

target said:


> lol, great. I purchased one of those for my 90 as well. Guess I'll have to wait and see if its too much flow.


Yeah, but Tony's is a 1200 and yours is the 600 with the smaller impeller, so won't be as bad. 90 gallon is 4 feet long so wouldn't be as bad as in my 30" cube. If it doesn't work out, you can just keep the maxijet and sell me the sureflo mod as I got a 400 for the 125 3 weeks ago.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Ok, there are no pics as I only got them home, but having a big school of Black Neons is pretty awesome. They're all freaked out and not displaying proper colours, but Patrick had such nice ones I had to take them all home. Tang_daddy inspired me with his big school cardinals! And of course there were Sterbai...and a few rummies. 

Ok, no more stock, except maybe some discus...coming soon.


----------



## charles

and a blue eye panaque.


----------



## jobber

cardinals - tang daddy, black neon - 2wheelsx2, .....rummynose - jobber604
You guys are inspiring me now!

gary, when you say a big school of black neons...how big of a school is it?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> and a partridge in a pear tree.


There I fixed it for you Charles! 



jobber604 said:


> cardinals - tang daddy, black neon - 2wheelsx2, .....rummynose - jobber604
> You guys are inspiring me now!
> 
> gary, when you say a big school of black neons...how big of a school is it?


Ummm....big. I'll post up a pic or vid tonight. My wife looked at the tank and said, "I can't believe how much fish you got in there!"


----------



## charles

your wife ain't see nothing yet till she sees those amazing blue eye


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> your wife ain't see nothing yet till she sees those amazing blue eye


I think she'll be even more amazed at an L24!


----------



## jobber

Nice! I love this exciting and mysterious feeling of the number in the school and the look of the school.
I gotta get my schools going soon. Need to play a bit of catchup. 

Now wishing the day go by faster...haha. Its only the start of the work day.


----------



## Diztrbd1

jobber604 said:


> cardinals - tang daddy, black neon - 2wheelsx2, .....rummynose - jobber604
> You guys are inspiring me now!


lol Ming I can see the wheels are turning..hope your not losing much sleep

Just seen the vid myself..wow, looks nothing less than great Gary! Makes me want to go change one of my tanks around a bit now lol
I bet the new "Big" addition looks just awesome in there, Looking forward to another video
I can definitely see where that school of 90 cardinals , could inspire one to get a super large school of something, when I seen that, first thing came to my mind was I wonder what a super large school of Black Neons would look like....guess I will see sooner than I thought lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> Just seen the vid myself..wow, looks nothing less than great Gary! Makes me want to go change one of my tanks around a bit now lol
> I bet the new "Big" addition looks just awesome in there, Looking forward to another video
> I can definitely see where that school of 90 cardinals , could inspire one to get a super large school of something, when I seen that, first thing came to my mind was I wonder what a super large school of Black Neons would look like....guess I will see sooner than I thought lol


Hahaha...the only thing is that the tank is square, so it's more difficult to see proper schooling behaviour like you can in a long tank. They swim around in circles against the current most of the time.


----------



## Diztrbd1

swimming in circles would be cool too, hope they don't get dizzy lol
maybe need an obstacle to break up the circle swimming, put a glass wall in there and see if they swim around it or run into it lol Seriously tho,,,lookin' forward to the next vid or some pix soon. Which I really shouldn't watch, since most of my tetra's are in schools of six or less. I can already vision putting all of them in the same tank and buying a bunch more due to your and Tang_daddy's inspiring pix and vid's lol


----------



## jobber

I'm picturing a school of tuna for some odd reason. After looking at gary's and chris' respective threads again last night motivated me to assemble my stand and put the tank up. Don't know how gary doesn't lose sleep over the fish tanks b/c I know I sure do.

I think I've developed LSOFS (large school of fish syndrome).


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> I'm picturing a school of tuna for some odd reason. After looking at gary's and chris' respective threads again last night motivated me to assemble my stand and put the tank up. Don't know how gary doesn't lose sleep over the fish tanks b/c I know I sure do.


Funny you say that. I get insomnia sometimes, and last week, I got up at 3 AM and cleaned the Eheim 2078...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

*Here's the vid*

Well, here it is.






Excuse all the bubbles...I'll be disconnecting the UV venturi tonight after a water change. Don't like the bubble look.



















One of the new Sterbai:










Another Sterbai. These guys are about an inch long:


----------



## jobber

just when i come home after a long day's work. First thing i see....a video with a school of black neons. in the words of McDonald's....."i'm loving it!"
awesome video gary! it must of felt like a long day while at the office today for you...while thinking about the neons. btw, lovely sterbai you got there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...yeah, it was a long day as I was really looking forward to checking out the fish in the light some more (got home too late last night). Doing a big water change right now, boy I couldn't believe how dark the water was from the wood, even though I'm running Purigen.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Took few more pics tonight, just for you Ming. If you'll notice, the rummies have all coloured up. I guess they like the live black worm and NLS.



















One of my original Sterbai:


----------



## Chappy

You really should think about adding some fish to that tank, Gary. Looks pretty bare........


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> You really should think about adding some fish to that tank, Gary. Looks pretty bare........


Funny you should say that, I was just thinking the same thing.  And no, I didn't hide any fish. Now that they are shoaling properly, 3/4 of the tank is unoccupied.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Funny you should say that, I was just thinking the same thing.  And no, I didn't hide any fish. Now that they are shoaling properly, 3/4 of the tank is unoccupied.


First thing in the morning, how many do you find on the floor? Some at an amazing distance from the tank  ??


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Zero. No jumpers in this tank. It's open top with a light diffuser grid on top. Have to top up every 3 or 4 days with a gallon of water due to evaporation. That's why I didn't get any rasboras or hatchetfish.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

BTW, note the colouration of the photos between yesterday and today. It's not my camera or the lighting. It's the water. The tannins after one week without a water change is insane, even with a bag of Purigen. I couldn't figure out why the water was so cloudy....it was the wood. No wonder my Sterbai want to spawn.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

One more video for Ming. Notice the tight shoaling. Not sure if it's easily visible in the video, but the shoals are segregated between the black neons and the Rummy Nose.


----------



## Luke78

Nice layout Gary , everything and everybody where you want it ? To be honest , i wouldnt mind the leaching of tannins , and if your gonna add discus(possibly wilds) they love this stuff.


----------



## charles

I think a proven breeding group of King tiger will look nice in there. And the 6" BEP will also look great in the 125g tank as well.


----------



## Diztrbd1

Awesome pix Gary & great video! That is definitely one big shoal of black neons. It is cool how they segregate. Even my small groups do that. Of course now I want big groups lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Nice layout Gary , everything and everybody where you want it ? To be honest , i wouldnt mind the leaching of tannins , and if your gonna add discus(possibly wilds) they love this stuff.


Yeah, I don't mind the leaching of tannins, but this stuff is like soup.  I think it'll be much better after running the Purigen for another month or two. Manzanita is definitely the way to go if one wants lots of tannins.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> I think a proven breeding group of King tiger will look nice in there. And the 6" BEP will also look great in the 125g tank as well.


And an L24, and LDA-105, and maybe L97. But not until I win the LottoMax.


----------



## jobber

Wow. what have i've missed out these past 36 hours while away from BCA doing "tank business". 
so many new pics to stare at as well as a video to admire. It's so hard to resist getting my schools. 
You're tank is looking pristine, Gary. 
Funny how you're trying to get your water to be crystal clear while i'm trying to odd some almond leaf flavour into my water.
I'm noticing my water is quite cloudy as well. Can't wait to get the journal started.
I'm going to have to go get a new digital camera that records HD videos for you. 


> One of my original Sterbai:


The barbels on this fish looks so healthy. it looks like a wild sterbai! must feed him well. don't spoil him too much.


>


This is such a great computer desktop picture!

Tough luck. I need to win the next lottomax!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Ming. Yeah, I opted for a Nikon D5000 which doesn't shoot HD vids. The equivalent Canon does, but you know until the new craze to upload HD vids to Youtube, I never needed to. It's just one of those things you think you never need until everyone is doing it. I'm still very happy with the camera and will likely get a new point and shoot that does HD vids instead.


----------



## jobber

any Nikon SLR is a good SLR. Those point and shoots that take HD are dirt cheap. 
keep an eye out during boxing day . Point and shoots, always go with Canon.
I'd figure you were using an SLR to take your photos. 
Wonder if you play with the exposure settings, you can get the tetras in detail and in close up.
Ok, enough camera talk. Back to tank talk. 

I've finally got the chance to look at the video. The two main types of tetras seem to be separating and school in their own groups. 
Quite peaceful looking tank--a great addition to the living quarters.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, the problem actually is light. Not enough light and the tank is too wide.  I need a bigger zoom and to put more light in the tank (I should with tank lighting only).

Thanks, yeah, it's pretty cool. I think my rummies are about to spawn. One is HUGE! I'll go check out your journal now.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Some tetra shots...it's tough for the them to be in the light and moving slowly at the same time.


----------



## Diztrbd1

more great shots! I really love that Emperor, gots to get me some more lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Horrible thought, but now that I have all the tetras in there, I have been having the thought that I should not have *gasp* Discus in there, as it is so peaceful and low maintenance in there. I'm considering just keeping it this way, or maybe adding a few Blue Rams in there in the New Year until the kids are a bit older and I have more time to devote to fish. Not 100% decided, but I'm really liking the idea, and I can then also lower then temps a bit too.....and of course, I can then run open top.


----------



## charles

hmmm, no discus... more space for the small blue eye panaque


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Horrible thought, but now that I have all the tetras in there, I have been having the thought that I should not have *gasp* Discus in there, as it is so peaceful and low maintenance in there. I'm considering just keeping it this way, or maybe adding a few Blue Rams in there in the New Year until the kids are a bit older and I have more time to devote to fish. Not 100% decided, but I'm really liking the idea, and I can then also lower then temps a bit too.....and of course, I can then run open top.


Gary, quick - SHAKE YOUR HEAD!!! These thoughts are only temporary and will pass. But in the meantime, seriously, shake your head  No discus? Blue Rams but NO DISCUS? Have you been assembling models or something - leave the glue alone!!!!


----------



## Morainy

ROTFL!!!

Yep, I side with Charles here. More space for small blue-eyed panaques and more time for kids!



charles said:


> hmmm, no discus... more space for the small blue eye panaque


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...yeah, more space for kids and more time for BEP.....oh did I get that backwards?  Seriously, nothing is set in stone, so if there are some nice wild Peru discus around, who knows, but I'm not going out of my way to get any. Might even get more L134. *wink, wink*


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Hahaha...yeah, more space for kids and more time for BEP.....oh did I get that backwards?  Seriously, nothing is set in stone, so if there are some nice wild Peru discus around, who knows, but I'm not going out of my way to get any. Might even get more L134. *wink, wink*


Oh I may just have six wild tefes/Peruvians lying around if the price is right


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Don't tempt me Shelley.


----------



## Nicklfire

looks very peacefull dude, i love the school's, makes me want some


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Shawn. I actually overestimated. The schools look busier than they are since the tank is square and they swim in circles. In a long tank they would look much more spread out and the tank wouldn't look so busy. So I might be thinning the herd a bit in the future, at least where the black neons are concerned.


----------



## jobber

Gary, how much more time can you give your tanks? Haha. Hilarious. You already give a lot of TLC towards them. Btw, how long have you?e had those rummies for? The appear very plump and big. Must be the "spoiled" diet you provide them


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Gary, how much more time can you give your tanks? Haha. Hilarious. You already give a lot of TLC towards them. Btw, how long have you?e had those rummies for? The appear very plump and big. Must be the "spoiled" diet you provide them


Hahaha...you don't want to know Ming. My wife says "way too much". The bigger rummies are from Kole, so they have been in my care for 2 years. I think a couple of them are gravid right now, hence the reason they are so big. And yeah, the blackworm diet helps. Makes their noses bright red like Rudolph.


----------



## jobber

"Rudolph, the red-nosed rummy*
had a very shiny nose.*
And if you ever saw him,*
you would even say it glows.*

All of the other tetras*
used to laugh and call him names.*
They never let poor Rudolph*
join in any tetra games.*

Then one cloudy tank Christmas Eve*
Gary came to say:*
"Rudolph with your nose so bright,*
would you want some blackworms tonight?"*

Then all the other tetras hated him*
as they shouted out with glee,*
Rudolph the red-nosed rummy,*
you've gobbled down all the blackworms literally!"

Ok. That was kind of tacky. 
I got fooled into believing those rummies were recent acquisitions. Hope you'd be able to spawn them.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...that's great. The big ones are Kole's, and the 20 or so smaller ones (all colouring up nicely) are from Patrick. It'll take a year or so to get them that big, but they're filling out nicely.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Got a few lousy pics of the plecos this evening. The Peckoltia Compta (L134) are pretty shy still.

L134x2:



















Male calico BNP (short finned):


----------



## jobber

makes me want to stock my tank with some interesting pleco's also. which types aside from BNP will be relative small (< 4" or 5")? (sorry, wrong thread to post this question...should actually post to the "revived pleco thread")


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Most Hypans will be smaller than 5", even the L46.  So L129, L201, L340 are the more affordable ones. Of course, there is the L134 (Peckoltia Compta), commonly called Leopard Frog Plecos.


----------



## jobber

more researching for me tonight for plecos. are otocinclus considered plecos???? haha


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> more researching for me tonight for plecos. are otocinclus considered plecos???? haha


Well, they're sucker mouth catfish, so in the same family (Loricariidae) as what we call plecos, so yeah.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

So, I added some new fish which cannot be revealed in photos today, but I managed to capture a good shot of one of the L134 which likes to bask on the flat rocks. I had already posted it on my pleco thread, but I liked it so much I thought I would post here also.


----------



## jobber

gorgeous L134! what's the surprise fish??!?!?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> gorgeous L134! what's the surprise fish??!?!?


Hmmm...if I told you it wouldn't be a surprise now would it?


----------



## jobber

no it wouldn't. keep the suspense up. hilarious. i should upload some pics of the LFS markets here. 

it must be nice to be home to tend to the 'cube 

alrite. time to head out to "the market" again to check those types of things again. horrible. everything is so cheap. 

that L134 looks so healthy and gravid.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I am not sure it's a female. They tend to be chubby little buggers, all of them.

You should do a photo journal of the trip, that would be awesome.


----------



## Peterchow

2wheelsx2 said:


> So, I added some new fish which cannot be revealed in photos today, but I managed to capture a good shot of one of the L134 which likes to bask on the flat rocks. I had already posted it on my pleco thread, but I liked it so much I thought I would post here also.


Hey Gary, this pleco is gorgeous and thank you for showing me your new CREATION. It is a happy paradise !!!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The full tank perspective, with the surprise fish in the corner, just for Shelley. Thanks for completing this tank for me, Peter and Shelley. I'm loving it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

And here are the stars of the tank. I still haven't watch them eat yet, but have been trying live and freeze dried blackworm, and of course, the other fish get fed with NLS pellets. Hoping to observe a feeding tonight.


----------



## Peterchow

2wheelsx2 said:


> And here are the stars of the tank. I still haven't watch them eat yet, but have been trying live and freeze dried blackworm, and of course, the other fish get fed with NLS pellets. Hoping to observe a feeding tonight.


WOW WOW WOW !!!!

They look amazing even only a short time in your paradise. Dont worry about their appetite yet as their wild eating habits are different than the domestic.

THanks for sharing !!!!! So the nice round one in the front is probably from Shelley ????


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yes, Peter, that one is Shelley's. It's a beauty, but so are yours. I'm really loving these guys.

Oh, and btw, the colours really popped after I did a 50% water change today. I did a 70% water change just before you brought yours on Wed. I get the sense that I'll be doing a lot of water changes in the next while.


----------



## target

The wilds look great!! Knew you'd take the plunge. Very nice looking set up.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yes, I guess resistance was really futile in the end. But now that I've given in, I'm totally enamoured with them. I can't stop looking for them no matter what I'm doing, whenever I can see the tank.


----------



## Luke78

Glad you decided to join the "dark side" they look like they are settling in pretty nicely.With just a bit more time , they will greet you every day waiting for food and somewhat follow you around the room.By the way where did you pick them from ?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Glad you decided to join the "dark side" they look like they are settling in pretty nicely.With just a bit more time , they will greet you every day waiting for food and somewhat follow you around the room.By the way where did you pick them from ?


Yeah, they're already coming to the front of the tank. They seem to recognize me already.

The fish are from the generosity of Peter Chow and Shelley.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

With one of the 2 banks of lights off, they came right up to the camera, but moved away before I could get a closeup. They have really all started to colour up nicely, so I got this pic:










Sorry, it's a bit blurry as the lighting level was very low, so it was difficult to get a clear pic.


----------



## Luke78

Wow what a generous gift , good job Peter and Shelley ! They do really stand out with the lighter substrate , good call on that.It also seems that all of them are well spotted , an added plus.Enjoy Gary , you will be tending to this setup quite frequently i may add.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Luke. This setup is actually surprisingly low maintenance with the exception of the water changes for the discus. The flow pattern I have setup (Eheim 2078, JBJ 13 watt UV, Maxijet 400, Koralia 1) is counterclockwise, and because the sand keeps the detritus on top, the stuff swirls into the filter after the the plecos and cories are done with it. And since I have no panaque in this tank, and currently, nothing bigger than 3" in terms of plecos, I don't even gravel vac except once every 2 weeks.


----------



## hp10BII

Congrats on the new discus! Looks like they've acclimated very well to your new setup. Well done!


----------



## thefishwife

Very nice Gary, congrats! My discus tank is upstairs as well,and I always stare at it!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

hp10BII said:


> Congrats on the new discus! Looks like they've acclimated very well to your new setup. Well done!


Thanks. I had a lot of help and offers of help of many experienced members here, and I'm grateful for that, making my introduction to discus keeping very painless so far.



thefishwife said:


> Very nice Gary, congrats! My discus tank is upstairs as well,and I always stare at it!


Yeah, the only problem is I don't have a chair facing it, just beside it, so I'm afraid I'm going to develop a kink in my neck soon.


----------



## jobber

wow. i missed out on the new year's surprise! gorgeous looking addition to an already gorgeous tank. your amazonian biotope cube is quite the inspiration for us all. makes me want to have discus.....too bad they don't come in nano sizes


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> wow. i missed out on the new year's surprise! gorgeous looking addition to an already gorgeous tank. your amazonian biotope cube is quite the inspiration for us all. makes me want to have discus.....too bad they don't come in nano sizes


They do, but they only are nano for a couple of months and you have to change water every day while they are "nano".


----------



## jobber

yeah, i think petershow has a bunch of those nanos 
you're setup is looking great. is that a new lighting system you're using？


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nope. It's still the light diffuser grid and two lights from my 15 and an old 10 gallon. One is a 24" NO t5 Coralife unit (28 w I think) and the other is a 24 watt PC light from Pro (20") that I was running in a 10 gallon at work. This is roughly the amount of light that I'll be running in the tank when it's all done though, with 2 banks of 2x24w t5HO with only a 2 hour overlap where it'll be close to 100 w.


----------



## jobber

there's quite a lot of light hitting the bottom of the tank. it looked like you put on new lights on the cube.

love the new surprise in the tank. what type of discus are they？


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It's the white sand reflecting the light. Really makes it bright near the bottom. Also using a DSLR helps. 

I'm no Discus experts, but these are the Discus from Peru that April sold to Peter and Shelley and that were kind enough to pass on to me. I think they are Tefe's. There are 3 green ones and 2 blue ones.


----------



## jobber

Ah, the DSLR. well, the light and the layout of the cube really optimizes the light diffusion. i was admiring that picture of the cube in the corner for quite sometime. quite the sight. should just put a nice lazyboy sofa right in front of the cube.

those are some gorgeous discus. nice of peter and shelley. it's a great addition to the tank. hope that group can give you some nano's in the future.


----------



## Diztrbd1

lmao Ming...was thinking the same thing about the lazyboy

Wow Gary ...the tank looks just great with those discus in there. Haven't seen the tank since last year and so much has changed lol Happy New Year btw The last shot of that L134 is awesome too!


----------



## jobber

i've only been away for a week now and so much has changed! chubby plecos, well coloured discus, nice schools of tetras, maybe a few new "amazonian“ plants in the works??? haha

if you have such a nice fish tank, there's no need for a tv!

btw. happy new year and a more prosperous year for the cube.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Ming. There could be some of those Amazonian plants in the works. 

Happy New Year to you too.


----------



## jobber

well i look forward to seeing them in your tank soon. i'm too excited right now.
how big and how frequent do you plan on doing water changes?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> well i look forward to seeing them in your tank soon. i'm too excited right now.
> how big and how frequent do you plan on doing water changes?


I plan on doing 2x 50%+ water changes per week once everything is settled down, but I currently have a mini-cycle going on with the addition of the discus, so I am actually doing 50% water changes every day, plus that's what they are used to (Shelley does water changes every day). Sounds like fun huh?


----------



## tony1928

Sounds like its time to plumb in a auto water change system Gary!  

For my L046's, I'm doing a 5 gallon per day water change on my 33g tank. I think it will be less of a shock for them given the water/chlorine issues alot of ppl have been having. Not to mention changing just 5g is pretty darn easy. Just a bucket, no hoses...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Sounds like its time to plumb in a auto water change system Gary!
> 
> For my L046's, I'm doing a 5 gallon per day water change on my 33g tank. I think it will be less of a shock for them given the water/chlorine issues alot of ppl have been having. Not to mention changing just 5g is pretty darn easy. Just a bucket, no hoses...


The bucket thing is ideal for small tanks, and I'm still doing that on the 20 gallon while the tank is up. 2x5 gallon buckets and I'm done. I even age the water. But with the cube and the 125, I'm changing roughly 400 gallons of water a week, so the bucket days are over for those tanks. An auto changer would be nice, but not until I redo the plumbing in the basement, in which case it's totally doable, as I plan to overhaul the plumbing then. For the summer, I plan to run the water from the cube out the window and into a water barrel for the flower beds and the vegetable garden, but that can't happen in the winter so for now, it's down into the bathtub.


----------



## tony1928

Yeah, I've been also thinking about what I could be doing with the 150g or so of water change that I do every two weeks on the African tank. Right now, same as you, its down the bathtub drain. I could run it into my wife's garden bed, but 150g in one shot is way too much water. I was thinking of using one of those rain water runoff barrels but I'm not so keen about storing "dirty" tank water. It would be great for the veggies but I wonder how the water would keep or would it get really funky.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I seem to be having a run of bad luck with the cube. Just found a dead L47 which died today and upon inspection, the tail section is red, which looks like it was bleeding and now I see an L134 with the same problem.

Anyone have any ideas whether this is an injury or an infection?


----------



## christhefish

looks like an infection to me but i could be wrong


----------



## jobber

ｎｏｏｏｏ！！！！　ｈｏｐｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｆｉｓｈ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｇｅｔ　ｂｅｔｔｅｒ．　ｎｏｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｎｅｗｓ　ｉ　ｗａｎｔ　ｔｏ　ｈｅａｒ　；（


----------



## jay_leask

oh man that sucks  hope you figure it out.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Lost another L134 tonight. Rushed over before J&L closed (King Ed's was out of it) and got some Furan-2. Doing a big water change before I add the Furan-2.


----------



## EDGE

oh man.. sorry to hear the problems you are having. I had a similar problem + white patches + ich + fin rot + head scratching a few years ago that took me away from the hobby till recently. I dumped (at different times) maraycn + maracyn 2 + prazipro + ichX + raise temp just to control the problem . 

All took place after I introduced 9 fish to the tank. still lost 3 of the 9 fish after treatment. All 9 fish are gone now. They got the same problem again couple years later.


----------



## tony1928

Good luck with treatment Gary. My fingers are crossed for your plecos!!! Never seen that before.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks for kind words guys. When I finished dosing the Furan-2, another L134 was gone and it looks like the last one is on its way out. So it's preferentially taken all the fish from the same batch. They were the whole reason to set up the cube in the first place, so it's been pretty discouraging. Luckily, none of the other fish seem affected. But the onset and death was only 5 days until all the L47 and L134 were pretty much gone.


----------



## crazy72

Very sorry to hear this Gary. It sounds like a pretty nasty outbreak, whatever it is. I hope it won't discourage you from the hobby or from your cube tank. You've created a beautiful tank and I'm sure it will be smooth sailing again soon.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Franck. I've had setbacks before, but this one was the worst. I'm certainly not going to quit the hobby, but need to lay low and take stock for a while and decide what I want to do with the cube besides the discus (maybe nothing but the other plecos for now).


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Sadly, the last L134 died this morning. I'll continue the dosing regime with the Furan-2 to ensure no one else catches whatever infection it was.


----------



## Diztrbd1

sorry to hear Gary, that really sucks.....Hope you get the problem fixed before you lose anything else


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> sorry to hear Gary, that really sucks.....Hope you get the problem fixed before you lose anything else


Thanks John. The proof is tonight when I get home to do the second dose of Furan-2. Everything looked ok as of this morning. I am still a bit worried about the discus, as I have only seen the little one eat, but I feed enough food that they can peck away in the dark.


----------



## Chappy

EGADS GARY........I'm off the forum for 4 days and all heck breaks loose in your tank.  I'll send you a pm.
Shelley


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> EGADS GARY........I'm off the forum for 4 days and all heck breaks loose in your tank.  I'll send you a pm.
> Shelley


Yeah, I think it's all your fault Shelley.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Yeah, I think it's all your fault Shelley.


EVERYTHING is my fault! Just sent you a short pm, Gary.


----------



## Peterchow

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks John. The proof is tonight when I get home to do the second dose of Furan-2. Everything looked ok as of this morning. I am still a bit worried about the discus, as I have only seen the little one eat, but I feed enough food that they can peck away in the dark.


The wilds are O.K. Their eating habits are WILD. When they are hungry, they look for foods but not always at the same time. As long as their fins & colors remain consistent, you should not have to worry !!!!!! THey are fine.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Everything was still fine as of this morning, after the 2nd dose of Furan-2. I didn't see the last remaining L134, but neither did I see a corpse, so it'll have to wait until after work tonight for me to see the verdict.


----------



## Diztrbd1

well hope that's a good sign.......fingers crossed


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Coupla shots from this week:

Schooling black neons:










Schooling Rummies:


----------



## jobber

gorgeous schools of fish. what's the fish count by type in the cube?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I only have 3 types of tetras, but they are difficult to count.

Rummy Nose - about 24
Black Neons - about 60
Emperor Tetras - 4 or 5 (I'm losing a few to old age now as they are all 3+)

Then I have 7xL333, 4 Calico BNP's, 3 L066 and 24 Corydoras sterbai, and of course the 5 discus.


----------



## jobber

wow. there's actually 24 sterbai's in there. they must of been very shy so only saw a few peep out from all the many hidings spots. that black neon school mass looked very good. can't imagine what feeding time is like when they all swarm for food.


----------



## tony1928

Looks good Gary. Everything in the tank now stabilized? Schooling fish are pretty cool to watch. I only have like 25-30 cardinals in my zebra tank and I enjoy watching them follow the leader. Honestly, I'd be pretty bored if that tank did not have something else besides the zebras. Are you looking to add anything else to the tank?


----------



## charles

do what Tony does, add another 200 cardinals in there. It is nice


----------



## tony1928

Charles is the Cardinal Tetra pusher.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

If the black neons die off, I'm going to get 100 Emperor Tetras, just for Charles!


----------



## Diztrbd1

man ....100 Emperor's, that would be cool Gary. Nice pix ya posted of the schooling too


----------



## charles

2wheelsx2 said:


> If the black neons die off, I'm going to get 100 Emperor Tetras, just for Charles!


emperor tetra is nice. but you need 300 of them.

I know a place that sells them cheap


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> emperor tetra is nice. but you need 300 of them.
> 
> I know a place that sells them cheap


How am I going to fit those L46 in there with 400 tetras in the tank?


----------



## charles

you can fit 12 of L46 + 300 emperor tetra, no problem. Even a small blue eye will fit in there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> you can fit 12 of L46 + 300 emperor tetra, no problem. Even a small blue eye will fit in there.


Ok, you feed the Blue Eye LBW 3 days a week I do my discus and if it doesn't bloat, let me know.


----------



## charles

hmmm... now that is a true test... feed 5 Live Blackworm to your discus 3 days a week, your blue eye will not get bloat as if your discus is healthy and active, there should not have any LBW left.

How is that?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Ok, as long as I don't pay until the end of the test.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Ok, as long as I don't pay until the end of the test.


Nice one, Gary!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

You know, I can't win with Charles. He'll eventually break me.

Ok, so this weekend, I got 6 BNPs from Davej. 4 LF and 2 short fin. Beauties. Thanks again Dave.

And I managed to catch 3 of my L340's from my 20 gallon. That tank is almost done. I just gotta catch the last BNP and L340 and then scoop out the cardinals and I'm done there and I can take it down. If anyone is looking for a CO2 system, let me know.


----------



## charles

i can scoop some cardinals for you.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> i can scoop some cardinals for you.


I meant in my 20 gallon. I don't need more. I need less.


----------



## jobber

Why more cardinals when one can have more rummies


----------



## 2wheelsx2

> Why more cardinals when one can have more rummies


Or when you can put in red nosed salmon fry? . Thanks again bud.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

And below is some views of the new look. A poor shot of the "swarm" of black neons and Rummy Nose:










One of the "salmon fry" from Ming:










Stargrass and the Sag that I can't remember the name of:










Reverse angle 









To get the clearer shots, I had to turn all all the powerheads and only leave the filter running, and of course the filter has Purigen. If your tank is wider than 18" and you like waster clarity, I highly recommend Purigen. Tank had a 70% water change this afternoon, with half of it being aged water and half straight from tap.


----------



## jobber

Been awhile for some pics, quite the snapshots. looks so serene and peaceful. The fish look so happy and healthy and juicy. I can stare at the pictures for hours. Can't imagine the sitting right next to it and just staring at the school of fish shoal 

someone told me that type of sag. is Sagittaria platyphylla. I like the new 'scape and greenery.


----------



## target

Very nice looking. I am loving how it is developing.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> someone told me that type of sag. is Sagittaria platyphylla. I like the new 'scape and greenery.


Thanks for the ID again. I had forgotten and had to look it up.



target said:


> Very nice looking. I am loving how it is developing.


Yes, I'm liking it too. I swapped over the 65 W PC light to the cube and now it has about 90 W of PC so there is plenty of light to grow plants now. Before, my Vals were melting.


----------



## EDGE

Tank is maturing quite fast. Tank will look amazing with a few echinodorus parviflorus 'tropica'


----------



## tang daddy

Looks like this tank is coming along quite nice Gary! I was kinda bored last night and was counting your rummy nose in both recent pics I think I came up with 30 rummy and 30 some odd black tetras, how many do you actually have?


----------



## charles

he needs about 100 cardinals in there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

EDGE said:


> Tank is maturing quite fast. Tank will look amazing with a few echinodorus parviflorus 'tropica'


Hmmmm...had to look it up. Might fit. I assume you have some? I was actually thinking some Blyxa Japonica.



tang daddy said:


> Looks like this tank is coming along quite nice Gary! I was kinda bored last night and was counting your rummy nose in both recent pics I think I came up with 30 rummy and 30 some odd black tetras, how many do you actually have?


You know Chris, I actually dont' know as I've lost a few Black neons (maybe 10) and 1 rummy nose, but then I bought 24 from Pat and then Ming gave me some, which I didn't count. I would say I have about 35 - 40 Black Neons. 4 Emperor Tetras (might get more) and 30 Rummies.



charles said:


> he needs about 100 cardinals in there.


How about the 6 I have from my 20 gallon?


----------



## EDGE

actually, I only have one in a 10 gallon LOL. I don't have the space to grow echinodorus to full potential for flowering and propagation. 

What you want is 100 corydoras hastatus in the tank. forget tetra.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Not a big enough cory fan. I would have had 25 L134's in there if I hadn't run into this problem. Maybe I'll have 24 L46 instead, huh, Charles?


----------



## charles

24? why not 24 blue eye panaque, much more impressive...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> 24? why not 24 blue eye panaque, much more impressive...


Because I can't afford Richbcca's 500 gallon for 24 blue eye, even if you can get that many in.


----------



## target

2wheelsx2 said:


> Because I can't afford Richbcca's 500 gallon for 24 blue eye, even if you can get that many in.


Not to mention being able to afford 24 blue eyes


----------



## 2wheelsx2

> Not to mention being able to afford 24 blue eyes


You didn't hear about the 24 Blue Eye deal from Charles?


----------



## target

24 for the price of one? I'd get in on that for sure


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Finally got some decent shots of the discus, after putting on one set of 2x24w HOT5's. Took them a while to get used to the lighting level.










This is one of the bolder guys. This one and one of the smallest ones which I couldn't manage to get a photo of:










Couple of full tank shots showing my Staurogyne repens and Blyxa japonica:




























Sorry, I forgot to turn off the powerheads and had just done a 50% water change 2 hours before, so the tank is full of bubbles.


----------



## jobber

two updates. so much to see. the school of rummies and neons looking great, the discus have finally coming out . but i'm very impressed with the amount of plant growth. the T5HO's are doing wonders. The stargrass looks like it's grown another 3 inches. Are you dosing anything into the cube?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Equilibrium during water change and 10 ml or so of Excel. That's about it. The fish provide more than enough of the other ferts.  The one parameter I was missing before was the lighting, as this tank is 24 inches deep. Now that I have the T5 HO's, the plants are really starting to show some growth. When I only had the little NO t5 and 65 W PC, the Vals actually died back.


----------



## jobber

i like the simplicity and ease of the dosing regime 
keeping it natural.


----------



## EDGE

ahh yea. discus is a great fertilizing machine.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, that's what I was counting on. Discus/plecos fertilizing the plants, and adding a bit of Excel/Metricide here and there to prevent algae. I'm going to try some Root Medic root tabs soon to see if I can stop dosing anything altogether.  Less is more when you have kids and tanks.


----------



## EDGE

Not sure if you answered this. Are you doing anything to keep the sand spotless? its so pristine; almost like someone that combs their hair for a couple hours a day.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I think I kind of answered it before, but vaguely. I have a 2078, a 13 JBJ submariner UV, an HK1, and a Maxijet 400 working in a criss-cross counterclockwise pattern. Most of the detritus either goes to the deadspot in the back corner under the Maxijet powerhead (above the big stump) where my filter intake is, or it is swept into the wood and piled rocks in the center. Once a month or so I'll create enough turbulence to get the detritus to be blown out to be taken up by the filter or sucked up in a water change. If you look from directly above, you'll see some detritus, but the 24 Sterbai really do a job on anything uneaten.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I added a huge head of Anubias attached to a piece of Malaysian ironwood that I got at King Ed years ago from my 20 gallon which is totally coming down now (only 3 or 4 Cardinals and piles of shrimp left) and lo and behold, the discus came to life.

Discus are mysterious creatures! But spectacular ones. Managed to snap a pic of them with my Blackberry after a live blackworm feeding, so it's a bit blurry, but I didn't want this photo op to go to waste:


----------



## bowman00

I hope those neons I gave you are doing well!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Unfortunately some of them didn't make it. Most of the ones you see are from Pat.


----------



## target

Nice shot. The discus look great


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Tried to get some pics with my SLR but the discus don't like the big black box coming at them. Here are some shots of the layout of the tank and the discus. The colouration is pretty amazing.

Trying an angled flash, but didn't work, but did show the nice colours:














































Sorry about all the bubbles. I'll be getting rid of the venturi setup on the UV as soon as I can rig up something better to move the surface of the water.


----------



## jobber

awesome pictures.
the school of fish seem to shoal more closely.
the plants have shown so much growth.
great to see the discus coming out to play and enjoy their new habitat.


----------



## Chappy

Hey Gary - it looks like you got your hands on that "magic marker" that's been going around all the wild discus keepers to add red spots on their fish 

The tank looks beautiful and it's nice to see the discus settling in. They look great.  So come on, admit it - you starting singing to them, didn't you  

Shelley


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Haha..it's funny, Shelley, until you mentioned it, I never even noticed the spots. I've been so busy worrying about dying plecos, doing water changes, tweaking the scape, etc. and building the stand (I attached all the controller plugs and put in a light under the stand yesterday) that I've been missing the forest for the trees!


----------



## target

Looking good. The wilds look really nice. And your scape is coming along very nicely.


----------



## jobber

Here are some recent videos of the tank.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks for posting the threads, Ming. They are awesome. Should have cut out my voice.


----------



## AWW

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks for posting the threads, Ming. They are awesome. Should have cut out my voice.


Haha in the video of your geos i defiantly heard a cat. Love the discus, how big is the largest male in there?


----------



## Chappy

Great job, Ming! When are you coming over to take vids of my wilds 
The tank looks just awesome, Gary. Really, really nice to see it all come together.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

AWW said:


> Haha in the video of your geos i defiantly heard a cat. Love the discus, how big is the largest male in there?


The biggest male geo is about 3 inches.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Great job, Ming! When are you coming over to take vids of my wilds
> The tank look just awesome, Gary. Really, really nice to see it all come together.


Thanks Shelley. Lucky I have your help, Obi-wan.


----------



## Peterchow

jobber604 said:


> Here are some recent videos of the tank.


Wow wow wow !!!!!

Amazing videos with amazing discus. Their colors have improved 100%. I am so glad these wilds are now truly living in "Paradise".

So we have 2 winners - Ming(professional videoman) & Gary(New wilds expert).

Now, Gary, if you could get your pleco resting on the wood at the front, it will look awesome. May be a small L137 !!!!!!

Thanks for sharing !!!!!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...thanks Peter. An L137 would destroy most of the stuff in that tank. I have something else in mind. It'll be a surprise, but it'll be something a little bit more difficult to get so we (including me) have to be a bit more patient.


----------



## jay_leask

2wheelsx2 said:


> Hahaha...thanks Peter. An L137 would destroy most of the stuff in that tank. I have something else in mind. It'll be a surprise, but it'll be something a little bit more difficult to get so we (including me) have to be a bit more patient.


blue eye


----------



## Chappy

jay_leask said:


> blue eye


I bet it's not Ol' Blue Eyes, but I'm most curious to see what Gary's got up his sleeve.......


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Both blue eye and the L137 would destroy my layout in this tank, but the L137's diet would fit in this tank better.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Since Ming shot some vids, I was motivated to shoot my own:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

And then the obligatory shots. I took the venturi off the UV now, so no more bubbles. Everybody is stable and happy. I even saw a glance of 2 different L066 tonight, but wasn't able to get a shot.


----------



## EDGE

I always love the black circle around the dorsal and anal fin on discus


----------



## crazy72

Beautiful, Gary. Really beautiful.

Are the L066 more shy than other plecos? I have 3 myself. One of them I get a glimpse of once in a blue moon, and the other two I literally never ever see them. It's only when I take everyone out of the tank for a major rescape that I can convince myself that they're still alive.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Franck.

I find that the Hypans are very shy unless it's very dimly lit. And in my cube, there are a lot of overhangs with the wood and the overlapping slabs of rock and I seem to see them more often. I put an L333 in there last week, and I've only seen it once. 

Such is the life of pleco keepers.


----------



## jobber

my goodness, i missed quite the gallery show here the past few hours and days.
I'm not a big discus person..yet, but i can truly tell that the tefe are settling in perfectly in that tank. from the past 2 to 3 weeks pictures (as i'm looking back), the colours have improved and brightened up so beautifully. if i can bring my chair over there, i'd be sitting in front of the tank for hours!

btw, thanks for the sharing the pleco picks. i have made the decision . Surprises to come.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> my goodness, i missed quite the gallery show here the past few hours and days.
> I'm not a big discus person..yet, but i can truly tell that the tefe are settling in perfectly in that tank. from the past 2 to 3 weeks pictures (as i'm looking back), the colours have improved and brightened up so beautifully. if i can bring my chair over there, i'd be sitting in front of the tank for hours!
> 
> btw, thanks for the sharing the pleco picks. i have made the decision . Surprises to come.


That's why I put this tank in the living room. I had problems justifying sitting in the basement for hours staring at my 125, so I put this one in the living room so I can stare at it for hours. You notice that I had a chair on each side of the outward facing sides. 

Oh goody, surprises!


----------



## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks for posting the threads, Ming. They are awesome. Should have cut out my voice.


haha. No way. the candid conversations in the video adds more substance. We should need to do more commentating. sounds quite tacky but would be pretty funny. Actually on second thought, maybe conversations should be cut out, don't want to leak out secrets on how to maintain a great looking tank .



-N/A- said:


> Great job, Ming! When are you coming over to take vids of my wilds
> The tank looks just awesome, Gary. Really, really nice to see it all come together.


Shelley, soon . one day when we're not all frantically doing water changes or wasting time at a LFS shopping or online shopping exhibiting "hoarding" behaviours <-- that's a reference to me. I gotta stop shopping and buying.

I'm wondering what Gary has planned next for the tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> I'm wondering what Gary has planned next for the tank


You'll just have to wait like everyone else.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> You'll just have to wait like everyone else.


Could it possibly be an inheritance of three heckels from someone who may need to make more room in their tank 

The fish look great, Gary. Really nice to see and I can only imagine how happy you are now that they are out and about. Hard to bond with fish you can't see!!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Could it possibly be an inheritance of three heckels from someone who may need to make more room in their tank


Hmmm....I think that would be a surprise even to me!  But it would be a welcome one.


----------



## target

Don't know too many people who would say no to that.


----------



## davej

Hey Gary,
Charles keeps bugging you to get a Blue Eye Panaque,
Here is one for $15, if you buy three they are only $10 each
Blue Eye! $15
Check out the first picture


----------



## 2wheelsx2

davej said:


> Hey Gary,
> Charles keeps bugging you to get a Blue Eye Panaque,
> Here is one for $15, if you buy three they are only $10 each
> Blue Eye! $15
> Check out the first picture


Dang, I need a BEP and an L24! Thanks Dave, I forgot about those!


----------



## Chappy

They are AWESOME! I got a Scarlet from Charles and have it hanging from my cell phone. I love it. Didn't realize they came in so many flavours


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Not much new to report. Just got home from a business trip and no water changes for 9 days. Tank was down 4 inches, but wife had added 4 or 5 gallons of water to keep the pumps from cavitating, so it was probably down close to 6". I think I'll be putting a glass lid on this baby.

Plants got a bit of bba which I pruned. Dose a bit of Excel. Did a 75% water change and everybody was happily eating LBW last night. Will try to get some new photos tonight or this weekend.

Hope to add some new playmates to the tank soon.


----------



## neven

ooo looking forward to the photos 

on a side note, what is LBW?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

neven said:


> ooo looking forward to the photos
> 
> on a side note, what is LBW?


Live Blackworm. From Charles. I also feed Freeze Dried Black Worm (FDBW), courtesy of -N/A-. The discus love both. They peck at all the other foods (NLS, Dainichi, Kens food sticks, Tetra Colorbits (I got tons of food), but they go crazy when I put it LBW or FDBW.


----------



## charles

Live black worm...

New tankmates... the BEP is still waiting for you.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Oh I thought it was the L46.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Took some new pics this afternoon. It's tough to get good pics of the discus and they come up to the glass to beg for food every time I go over to the tank now, even if I shove the camera right in their faces.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

And some pics of the tetras which someone dubbed "salmon fry".


----------



## Diztrbd1

Great pix Gary! I seen some L134's on Charles list of things to come ...was you going to get more of them to put in there?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> Great pix Gary! I seen some L134's on Charles list of things to come ...was you going to get more of them to put in there?


Hahaha.....I am going to keep my additions up my sleeve, until I get them. Don't want people scooping me.


----------



## Diztrbd1

haha .....no worries with me , just wanted to make sure you leave a couple for me lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Just joking John. I have a line on some already. Rumour is that they are proven breeders already.


----------



## Diztrbd1

that's good to hear, proven breeders is a plus...would be nice to seem some of them in there again. They would look awesome in there with the great selection of fish you have in it. Hoping to grab a few myself, when Charles get them in. Then I can join PA lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

You already have some plecos, so you can join PA already!


----------



## Diztrbd1

lol I know, going to join here soon......from the looks of the list Charles has I may end up with 4 or 5 more soon


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Have a look at the L340. They are very nice fish for the money, and easy to keep. Prettier than the L129.


----------



## Diztrbd1

totally agree and they are on my top 5 list right now

wanted to repost these great pix, you posted earlier today, closer to the end of the thread 


2wheelsx2 said:


> Took some new pics this afternoon. It's tough to get good pics of the discus and they come up to the glass to beg for food every time I go over to the tank now, even if I shove the camera right in their faces.





2wheelsx2 said:


> And some pics of the tetras which someone dubbed "salmon fry".


----------



## Chappy

The discus look AWESOME, Gary!!! Surprised they weren't in a snit with you for being away so long. They're like cats that way  They look very, very good.


----------



## target

Looking really good Gary. But when am I getting the rocks for my tank? LOL


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> The discus look AWESOME, Gary!!! Surprised they weren't in a snit with you for being away so long. They're like cats that way  They look very, very good.


They were for a day, and then they became the little piggies they usually are again. Having LBW didn't hurt any. 



target said:


> Looking really good Gary. But when am I getting the rocks for my tank? LOL


Woops. I could have got them today, but forgot about it. I'm planning to take next Friday off, so I'll get them then. I gotta get some plants from you too.


----------



## jobber

nice pic gary. those look like steelhead with red noses and zebra tails.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Took a new full tank shot last night. Blyxa Japonica and S. repens not doing so well. I think not quite enough light. Bit of brown algae on the Anubias, but the Ludwigia and the Sagittaria are doing fantastic. Think I need a red lotus.


----------



## rickwaines

2wheelsx2 said:


> Took a new full tank shot last night. Blyxa Japonica and S. repens not doing so well. I think not quite enough light. Bit of brown algae on the Anubias, but the Ludwigia and the Sagittaria are doing fantastic. Think I need a red lotus.


your water is soooooo clear. the tank looks amazing


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Rick. It helps to run Purigen. It really makes a difference in wider tanks.


----------



## Diztrbd1

great full tank shot Gary! a big tiger lotus would look great in there for sure. my 50 and 33tanks both have one...I just love the look of them


----------



## rickwaines

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks Rick. It helps to run Purigen. It really makes a difference in wider tanks.


I am running it too nut I think perhaps not enough of it. So far just one of the off the rack bags. I thought that I would just have to re-charge more often with one bag but me thinks this is faulty logic. Time to put another bag in.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> great full tank shot Gary! a big tiger lotus would look great in there for sure. my 50 and 33tanks both have one...I just love the look of them


I agree 100% and have wanted one for a while, but just have to make time to get one.



rickwaines said:


> I am running it too nut I think perhaps not enough of it. So far just one of the off the rack bags. I thought that I would just have to re-charge more often with one bag but me thinks this is faulty logic. Time to put another bag in.


Hmm...I just "The Bag" and maybe have 150g, which is only 50% more than those pre-made bags. Have you taken it out to see if it's turned all brown. If so it already needs a recharge. It also depends on the fish load and the amount of filtration. In my 125, I had to add an XP3 to the 2028 and FX5 to get the tank to be clear, and it is only clear when I'm not feeding fresh veggies. For an hour after feeding, the tank is a snowstorm.


----------



## Diztrbd1

2wheelsx2 said:


> I agree 100% and have wanted one for a while, but just have to make time to get one.


I don't know if he has any in stock but Charles has them listed on the website, might check with him next time your there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> I don't know if he has any in stock but Charles has them listed on the website, might check with him next time your there.


I was there yesterday...remember my pleco thread? I went 2 days in a row as I got too impatient for the fish and then I had to go back for the blackworms. Patrick has the plants though. I didn't think to tell them ahead and have Patrick send them to Charles. It's ok, many people have them, it's just not high enough on my priority list compared to the fish.  Thanks for the heads up. I actually think Tang_Daddy has a big one.


----------



## Diztrbd1

your welcome & yea I had seen you were just there is what made me think about them lol , and I can definitely understand the the fish being higher priority lol alot of members do have them , only thing is you probably won't get a bulb with one from most members. I personally think the ones with the bulbs grow better and bigger plus you can get more plants from them , unlike the ones I got w/o bulbs.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> I personally think the ones with the bulbs grow better and bigger plus you can get more plants from them , unlike the ones I got w/o bulbs.


Interesting. Thanks for that John. Since all else is equal, I might as well give that a shot. I'll try to get one from Patrick or Charles this weekend or next week.


----------



## Diztrbd1

they are a very interesting plant from the research I have done on them, you can train them to grow to a certain height by clipping the leaves at a certain height to make it think that's where the surface is or let them try to grow to the top to have floating pads and possibly flower , which I'm thinking would be awesome in your tank,mine have only gotten to 12" max, but I'm sure your water quality is wayyy better than mine lol anyway don't want turn this into the red tiger lotus thread...just a couple things I learned


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Since it's my thread, we can take it wherever we want. I have read that you can train it also. I don't know about water quality, since the nutrient load is actually low in my tank due to the many water changes, the purigen and higher plant load now. I guess that might make it more red.

I have also heard you can train it and that it might flower. That's one of the reasons I'm interested in it, as with the way the tank is setup, I could get a flower and it will provide shade.


----------



## Diztrbd1

lol it is definitely your thread and imo, one of the best threads on the site  I was thinking that's what you would do with it, that would compliment that set-up very nicely. The shade idea is what I want too , cause floating plants grow fast & just multiple way too fast too. Not sure what makes them more red , both the tanks I have them in, have heavy loads and crappy , get clogged every two days, HOB filters lol (getting canisters for everything when the budget is there) but at times the red is super bright and other times a little dull. Lighting is probably the most important thing for them I would think. Good luck with it when you get it , look very forward to seeing it in there , especially as it grows.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Guess what's new? Froggies in the house!



















And what else was in the bucket?


----------



## Diztrbd1

must be nice  will be nice seeing some of them in there again


----------



## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Guess what's new? Froggies in the house!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what else was in the bucket?


that's quite the number of frogs and clowns you got in the bucket. scratching the itch.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Everyone was busy fighting for hidey holes this morning. Had a midnight snack of yam last night.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Some new pics tonight after a water change (so a bit cloudy):

Look who's peeking from under a rock









Cryptocoryne parva from Aquaflora, courtesy of Canadian Aquatics (Mykiss):









My attempt at a moss tree top which hasn't taken off yet:









Ludwigia repens:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

A short video of the moonight setup. Sorry it's blurry, but the camera is not as sensitive as they eye and this should really be viewed in person.


----------



## crazy72

Nice. The shimmer effect is quite apparent. 

So do your fish react in any way when the daylights switch off and the moonlights come on?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

They don't seem to react much to the tank lights being switched off. They react more to the room lights being switched off, but luckily I have those on dimmers.


----------



## CanadaPleco

I LOVE the look of that light you got. You've now got me wanting one for my new display tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

CanadaPleco said:


> I LOVE the look of that light you got. You've now got me wanting one for my new display tank


Thanks Rich. They weren't cheap, but they certainly do exactly what I wanted. I really like the night viewing.


----------



## Diztrbd1

thats an awesome light you got Gary. Hope to set one up on mine soon as well.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> thats an awesome light you got Gary. Hope to set one up on mine soon as well.


Thanks, it's actually 3 modules, I forgot to mention. 1 Ecoplus blue LED and 2 Digital Aquatics white moonlights (the modules comes in packs of 2x 2 LED's). I find it gives it the right mix of colour. I was going to remove the Ecoplus when I added the DA ones, but I kind of like it,so I may get a set of the blue DA ones when I get the canopy up and move the Ecoplus ones to another tank.


----------



## rickwaines

love the night viewing. My tank is at the studio so I don't get to do that. But when I set a tank up at home in the next year or so you can bet I will be getting an led system. For the moonlight effect at least.


----------



## jobber

been awhile. i'm wondering what gary has in store in terms of acquisitions....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Just got home last night.....nothing gets added without quarantine anymore....


----------



## crazy72

What happened Gary? Please tell me that it's not the L066s that you got from me that wrecked havoc in your tank...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Oh the problem isn't in this tank, but some ich prone fish, and since I have a quarantine tank, I should be using it. 

Unfortunately, before I added the new caves I think one of my L134 killed one of your L066.  Everyone is healthy now though. Pics of the new acquisitions will be up tonight, in the quarantine tank.


----------



## crazy72

I'm not surprised by aggression problems between plecos actually. I'm just starting to discover that they're not the peaceful and easy-going fish that I imagined based on their day-time behaviour. Now that I have moonlights on my 48G I can see the L201s in action a bit at night and it's quite impressive actually. It's probably important to have enough caves or hiding spots for everyone.

Anyway, good luck with your ich problem.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It probably had to do with the fact that the L066 was your biggest so it was close in size to the L134. If the L066 was full grown then the L134 wouldn't have had a chance and there would have been no problem.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Finally got up enough energy to take some new pics.

FTS with new Manzanita branches. Thanks to DeepRed.










Reverse angle. 










Some lousy pics of new inhabitants (hard to take good pics of fast moving fish in a 20 galllon with no cover).


















And finally, the money shot. Full group:


----------



## rickwaines

jeeezus, this is a beautiful tank. The discus, the space. A delight.


----------



## jay_leask

WOW that tanks is seriously amazing!


----------



## jay_leask

my jaw drops every time i see new posts


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Rick. It's still very much a work in progress. The Peckoltia compta didn't like the Cryptocoryne parva and the Red Lotus invading their space and keeps digging them out. I keep trying different places and methods to hold them down. Let's see who wins. 

I'm also going to pull the stargrass and Xmas moss which aren't doing well and use more Anubias and Crypts to fill out the scape a bit more. Maybe some greens in the form of Bacopa carolinia.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jay_leask said:


> my jaw drops every time i see new posts


Thanks Jay. I appreciate the feedback as this is supposed to be my showtank in the living, whereas the 125 is just my pleco hoarding tank where I throw everything in to make things work. This was planned out for a long time and I'm still trying to make adjustments here and there to make it nicer.


----------



## target

That looks awesome Gary. Love those branches


----------



## crazy72

That's got to be an apisto in the 3rd pic. What kind?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Good eye...macmasteri


----------



## Diztrbd1

Great shots Gary! Especially the money shot,even though they are all money shots if you ask me. Except the blurry 4th pic lol, so those are apisto's in that pic too? I'm guessing the 20g is a quarantine tank. I know it's hard to get a good pic, my Rams are pretty quick too & usually on the shy side, unless they are hungry lol
Every time I see this tank it looks more and more awesome. love the new branch , it looks perfect in there. Also hope you win the war over the red lotus lol


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks John. I can't even tell what they are.  In that 20 gallon they dart all over the place. I know I got both Rams and Apistos, and that's about all I know.

I'm going to try the lotus in a different spot where the L134 don't hang out. I was thinking I would put it there at a cave entrance for shade, but it obviously didn't like the lotus and dug it right out. 

They sure love their yams and live blackworm though.


----------



## Diztrbd1

So they are Rams , thought so when I seen the blue dots in the fins. Wow Rams and Apistos going in there eh....that will be sweet! Can't wait to see some vid's & pix of that. 
I have a problem keeping a couple plants down in my 50g due to a fish or two as well lol gets a little frustrating replanting them every couple days.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Going to try and get the dwarf cichlids in the tank this weekend. Was going to do it today, but couldn't resist getting a good deal on some additions to the 125 and they're in the quarantine now, so I have to make sure everyone is ok before I take fish out.


----------



## Diztrbd1

Cool, they are gonna be awesome in there......sounds like new pix soon on both threads soon, Always love seeing your new additions :bigsmile:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

They're in, but haven't had a chance to take pix yet. Tomorrow maybe. The additions to the 125 will probably go in tomorrow too.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Some shots from tonight:

Apistogramma macmasteri









One of the new Rams...pretty difficult to get a good shot of these guys as either the discus want in the shot or they squirt all over the place.









And the obligatory fts.


----------



## target

Looking good. And I hear a rumor there is a new, special addition coming soon as well.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks. I heard it likes Dancing With the Stars.


----------



## jkam

I wish I had a 100g cube


----------



## Chappy

I'm not nearly as good with PhotoShop or anything like that unlike someone I know who sells fish - anyhow, any chance your tank may look like this soon, Gary......


----------



## charles

That is awesome the fish comes with its own background


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> That is awesome the fish comes with its own background


That's the best kind!


----------



## Chappy

Sorry the Solomon is not to correct scale. It should be double that size


----------



## 2wheelsx2

> Sorry the Solomon is not to correct scale. It should be double that size


yikes...will I have any tetras left in that tank?


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> yikes...will I have any tetras left in that tank?


Oh, you've got tetras in that tank....how many.....do you like them alot....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

> Oh, you've got tetras in that tank....how many.....do you like them alot....


well, they'll last a while if he takes one a day... Like 3 months


----------



## jobber

how can i resist?!?! 
i envision the surprise will be more like this:


----------



## target

LOL, that's awesome! ^^


----------



## thefishwife

Love it Ming!!!!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

You guys are killing me! The expectations are overwhelming.


----------



## Chappy

You clearly need a bigger tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> You clearly need a bigger tank


Not in the living room I don't, unless I don't want to fit in with the house decor and live in the garage full time.


----------



## tony1928

I dunno Gary. Some garages are pretty nice....google mancave!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> I dunno Gary. Some garages are pretty nice....google mancave!


Mine is not bad. Especially after I put some RaceDeck in this summer. But the 20 gallons of used oil, 4 sets of tires and the fact that it is unheated is a bit of a problem in the winter.


----------



## tony1928

Racedeck is nice stuff. I painted mine with the epoxy paint with flakes. Looks great but as a garage, the flakes tend to catch debris and makes it harder to clean up.

Heating is the easy part....cooling on the other hand in the summers may be a bigger problem.

I keep thinking before of putting tanks in the garage, but then I'd come to my senses as I would have to be out there to enjoy them. For now, I will enjoy them from the comfort of my couch.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Mine is not bad. Especially after I put some RaceDeck in this summer. But the 20 gallons of used oil, 4 sets of tires and the fact that it is unheated is a bit of a problem in the winter.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

U-coat-it? I went with cheap paint from Home Depot and it sucks and I'm impatient, so I want to go Race Deck. Did you do the paint yourself? Has it held up? My hi performance tires on the cars and motorcycles tear up the paint something fierce.


----------



## tony1928

No that particular brand but I got it via Versatile Building Products Epoxy Garage Floor Coatings, Epoxy Concrete Floor Coatings, Polyurea Floor Coating, Epoxy Chip Flake Concrete Floor Coating, Urethane Garage Floor Coating, Industrial Urethane floor Coating, Industrial Floor Coating, Decor. Probably similar stuff. It has held up fine with hot tires. However, despite the pretty look I would probably go with just a solid colour in the future unless you could put so much epoxy over top that it completely coats the flakes. It's nice having a coated floor. I was considering the racedeck type materials as well but I'd have to buy quite a few rolls for complete coverage. Also, my garage was already vacant so it was pretty easy to prep and paint.



2wheelsx2 said:


> U-coat-it? I went with cheap paint from Home Depot and it sucks and I'm impatient, so I want to go Race Deck. Did you do the paint yourself? Has it held up? My hi performance tires on the cars and motorcycles tear up the paint something fierce.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

While I was in the mood for shooting critters today, I thought I shoot catch a couple of interesting shots.

My red lotus. Growing slowing but surely. Cories and plecos keep digging it up.









One of my 2 favourites in the tank:









And lookee lookee, what's in the quarantine tank?


----------



## jobber

Nice pick up gary. Is this discus the same type as what you have in the tank?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nope. If they were, I would have a whole tank of them. This guy is amazing.


----------



## target

Very nice. I am now thinking wilds would be awesome


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yep, I'm totally addicted to these guys.


----------



## Chappy

So has the new guy turned black yet dropped on its side and is staring at you as it gasps for breath? That's a wild discus for you!!! Don't feel bad if it does darken up and will likely go off food for awhile. It will be fine - it's just lonely


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It hasn't eaten, but its colour is better than when it was at Joseph's.  I'll post up a pic later. There are Endlers in the tank, so if it gets too hungry....


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> It hasn't eaten, but its colour is better than when it was at Joseph's.  I'll post up a pic later. There are Endlers in the tank, so if it gets too hungry....


It won't eat the endlers but may damage or kill them I'm afraid. I tried feeder guppies with my wilds but only once - never again


----------



## 2wheelsx2

They're not feeders. When I was clearing the tank out for a quarantine, I thought I had caught cherry shrimps and endlers, but they kept popping up. When I was quarantining the Rams and Apistos, they took care of the shrimps, but the endlers are getting bigger than ever.....I think they'll be fine. The Solomon is big and fat and should be able to go without food for a while.


----------



## Diztrbd1

That red lotus is going to look so good when it takes off. The new guy looks great....is he still in quarantine or has he made it to the main tank yet? Great pix as always too! Love the full tank and Apisto shot in post #602. Starting to get the discus itch myself now lol


----------



## jobber

Scratch scratch scratch


----------



## Diztrbd1

jobber604 said:


> Scratch scratch scratch


lol between the discus itch and pleco itch ....it's like a scratchfest


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The Solomon is still in quarantine. Seems to be doing well but appetite hasn't been great. Trying to get him to eat some lbw.

The red lotus is finally in a place they don't dig up, but it's a bit too open an area for my liking so I may have to move it when it establishes better. Plants grow so slow without CO2, which is good and bad at the same time.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> The Solomon is still in quarantine. Seems to be doing well but appetite hasn't been great. Trying to get him to eat some lbw.
> 
> The red lotus is finally in a place they don't dig up, but it's a bit too open an area for my liking so I may have to move it when it establishes better. Plants grow so slow without CO2, which is good and bad at the same time.


Can I have the red lotus......Fluffy LOVES red lotus. The redder the better apparently!!!! I'm still not sure I made a good decision when I brought Mr. Fluffy back home :bigsmile::bigsmile: It was JOE'S fault.....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Gee Shelley, you got that spare 50 gallon right? I have a solution for you. I have a spare CO2 10 lb cylinder, regulator, solenoid, needle valve tubing and diffuser. Essentially complete setup. You can have the 30 lbs of Florabase I have in the 20 gallon. I also have 2 or 3 sets of spare lights. Set that 50 up, put no fish in it and use dry ferts and crank the CO2 and run the lights 10 hours day. I can 100% guarantee you that you can grow more java fern, Anubias, moss, vals, and Hygrophilia than 10 Fluffies can eat in a week. I used to compose 2 lbs of java fern a week from the 20 gallon when I was doing that. Can fluffy eat that much? 

Just say the word and it's all yours. The tank just needs to be hydro-tested and I will even do that for you.


----------



## target

LOL, how long do you think that tank would have no fish in it? I wouldn't give it very long.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Bwhahahaha....as Shelley said in another thread....her friends know her well.


----------



## charles

she can put lots of baby L190 in there...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> she can put lots of baby L190 in there...


True...then she wouldn't have to dose nitrates. Not sure they'll like 50 ppm of CO2 to make the plants grow fast though.


----------



## Chappy

target said:


> LOL, how long do you think that tank would have no fish in it? I wouldn't give it very long.


See Daniel - that's the problem!!! I can't even set up a hospital tank without filling it


----------



## Chappy

And just how was it she was NOT able to score any L190's!!!! Seriously, WHAT WAS UP WITH THAT :bigsmile:


----------



## target

-N/A- said:


> See Daniel - that's the problem!!! I can't even set up a hospital tank without filling it


I know what you mean. I still have the 46g bowfront sitting in my garage and am getting tempted to fill it back up with some flat fishes


----------



## charles

-N/A- said:


> And just how was it she was NOT able to score any L190's!!!! Seriously, WHAT WAS UP WITH THAT :bigsmile:


come over... i still have some


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Meanwhile, back in the cube 

Solomon in quarantine.









Tefe's in cube after a blackworm feast

































Other cichlids...these wild Rams from Charles are looking pretty amazing.


----------



## target

Gah! Need to stop looking at those beautiful wilds.


----------



## rickwaines

I sure love the wild rams. Their disposition is quite different than the domestics. Would the same apply to your wild discus?


----------



## Chappy

The Solomon looks very lonely (and GREAT!!!!). I don't know how you are dealing with the wait.......I couldn't do it 

By the way - you are doing an AMAZING job with them.....look at their colors and how bright their eyes are.....full fins and tails, no tears or nips. They look fantastic.....want some more


----------



## charles

those rummynose are fat  Look how transparent your plants are, where you get those variant plant?


----------



## Chappy

So Charles spill the beans -- did he FINALLY buy Ol' Blue Eyes......did he get the special RETIREMENT price for that fish since you've had it for SOOOOO long.....what the heck will you guys have to talk about now .... bet you didn't think of that one


----------



## 2wheelsx2

rickwaines said:


> I sure love the wild rams. Their disposition is quite different than the domestics. Would the same apply to your wild discus?


Shelley would have a better answer than me, as I've never had anything but wild discus. But comparing my discus to my JD and Chocolate Cichlid which are captive bred, the wild cichlids seem to have more personality and be more energy efficient. They don't chase around and defend more territory. The domestic fish seem to not care that they flitter around all over. And they seem more responsive to me coming to feed them.



-N/A- said:


> The Solomon looks very lonely (and GREAT!!!!). I don't know how you are dealing with the wait.......I couldn't do it
> 
> By the way - you are doing an AMAZING job with them.....look at their colors and how bright their eyes are.....full fins and tails, no tears or nips. They look fantastic.....want some more


Thanks Shelley. I'm trying to do my best as the tank is in my living room and I don't want to be constantly messing with them. Just lots of water changes and lbw. I recently lowered the temps 1 degree to 28 C to see how they do as some plants are not doing well with the high temps. And it's been constant battle to not dump the Solomon into the cube.



charles said:


> those rummynose are fat  Look how transparent your plants are, where you get those variant plant?


I think you're talking about the Sag. The plecos and high temps are destroying them.....they're green only by the crown, as the froggies are eating them as fast as they grow.



-N/A- said:


> what the heck will you guys have to talk about now .... bet you didn't think of that one


Charles and I will always have something to talk about as he's already starting to harrass about other fish.


----------



## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Meanwhile, back in the cube
> 
> Solomon in quarantine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tefe's in cube after a blackworm feast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other cichlids...these wild Rams from Charles are looking pretty amazing.


Great looking red eye'ed soloman. Going to look good with the rest of the pack. those Rams have coloured up so well.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

> Great looking red eye'ed soloman. Going to look good with the rest of the pack. those Rams have coloured up so well.


Thanks bud. We'll have to work on more fi$h plans.


----------



## jobber

Not sure if i can wait until May for the frog fish plans...i hope "he" doesn't have any left. I think you have some good willpower to wait this long amid such peer pressure for the king of all plecos.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Any time bud, as long as you can hold a few. I think I have a few more interested parties.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Snuck the Solomon into the cube before the full quarantine was up, as I have plans for the quarantine tank....shhhh....

The Tefe's seem jealous or something as they would not let me get a clear shot, always getting in between the camera and the Solomon.


----------



## Chappy

There's a nic in the Solomon's tail......you paid full price for this fish??? You should DEMAND an immediate refund from the fraudulent person who sold you this fish in obviously less than prime condition. I INSIST you call him out to everyone on this forum.....who IS the scoundral???? And if this is a picture of a fish that has spent the last 7 days in quarantine, I can only imagine the condition of the poor beast when you RESCUED it. He should have paid YOU to take it away. Imagine....

Man oh MAN have they colored up. Looking SPECTACULAR 
I'm still holding out for that 15% cut by the way and "HE" knows it


----------



## target

Looks great in there Gary.


----------



## Chappy

target said:


> Looks great in there Gary.


Yeah, but Daniel, don't you think he should be trying to get at least a partial refund? Look at that fish - it's a REJECT..... (I'm really very evil :bigsmile


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Daniel.

And I agree Shelley. He should chip I'm for me to get your Heckels.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> And I agree Shelley. He should chip I'm for me to get your Heckels.


No no no.....that's NOT what I meant :bigsmile: Let's start working on our other friend to bring in some pretty spectacular wilds and THEN we'll talk heckel transfer  And between you and me - Joe isn't getting a dime  But I'll invite him to lunch when I sell you the heckels like he invited me - I have been known to put aside my petty differences at times.....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Tail already grew back.  I'll take some more photos tonight, but the Solomon is looking pretty spectacular.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Yeah, but Daniel, don't you think he should be trying to get at least a partial refund? Look at that fish - it's a REJECT..... (I'm really very evil :bigsmile


Look at this reject....I really should get some money back, Joe! 


















And the 2 bigger Tefe's decided to show him who's got game!


----------



## Luke78

Great looking wilds ,they seem to have settled in nicely and showing their true colours.Sorry iam biased and think wilds are the real thing.Domestics have their good points, but nothing beats mother nature.Thanks for sharing!


----------



## target

Looking really good. The colors are awesome. I used to think wilds were kind of boring, but not any more.


----------



## target

-N/A- said:


> Yeah, but Daniel, don't you think he should be trying to get at least a partial refund? Look at that fish - it's a REJECT..... (I'm really very evil :bigsmile


if that fish is a reject, I want a tank full of 'em


----------



## josephl

Wow Gary, good job, colors on that fish are really popping, much more so than in my tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Great looking wilds ,they seem to have settled in nicely and showing their true colours.Sorry iam biased and think wilds are the real thing.Domestics have their good points, but nothing beats mother nature.Thanks for sharing!


Thanks Luke. I'm getting very biased also.



target said:


> if that fish is a reject, I want a tank full of 'em


Hahaha, I wish I could afford a tank full of them. But yeah, it's amazing.



josephl said:


> Wow Gary, good job, colors on that fish are really popping, much more so than in my tank


Thanks Joe, and thanks again for letting me have it. I feel the best is still yet to come. As for the colours, it also has to do with the bulbs (10000k and Colormax) I'm using. I'm going to try some URI Aquasun soon as see how it works. That's the beauty of going T5's - more choices in bulb colour and temperature.


----------



## charles

I think a big panaque will look awesome in there.


----------



## jay_leask

hahaha relentless charles very nice


----------



## Mferko

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks Luke. I'm getting very biased also.
> 
> Hahaha, I wish I could afford a tank full of them. But yeah, it's amazing.
> 
> Thanks Joe, and thanks again for letting me have it. I feel the best is still yet to come. As for the colours, it also has to do with the bulbs (10000k and Colormax) I'm using. I'm going to try some URI Aquasun soon as see how it works. That's the beauty of going T5's - more choices in bulb colour and temperature.


tbh youd probably have even more control if you added an RGB LED strip, + when you felt like a color change you just turn a knob or push a button, instead of going to the store and shelling out money u could spend on more wild discus


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Mferko said:


> tbh youd probably have even more control if you added an RGB LED strip, + when you felt like a color change you just turn a knob or push a button, instead of going to the store and shelling out money u could spend on more wild discus


I don't like the artificial colours. What I'm doing is applying natural daylight colours...whether LED or fluorescent.


----------



## Mferko

i think itd be cool to have things like red sunsets programmed


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Haven't updated in a while as there was no change. Some changes coming soon, so I thought I would post. 

Red lotus is taking off. I'm using only Root Medic tabs and sporadic Excel dosing.









And I have a bunch of these guys in quarantine, waiting to go in the cube when they get fattened up a bit.


----------



## jobber

There is some serious lush growth with that red lotus. 
Surprised the stargrass is regrowing and surviving from the pleco's appetite.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, I'm gone 2 weeks and the lotus takes off. The stargrass came back once I upped my Mg dosing. I guess the plants were not getting enough Mg. I now use 1 part Equilibrium and 2 parts Epsom salts in my water treatment.


----------



## lexi21

this is awesome, can you tell me what kind of sand are you using?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

lexi21 said:


> this is awesome, can you tell me what kind of sand are you using?


Post #271: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/84587-post271.html

Estes quartz sand.


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

I see from that pic you have went with some bloodfins too ? They are neat arent they!Picked up 40 from charles and they have settled in nicely with my wild tefe's.I l love they way they school tightly if the tefes are near by and are always begging for food! how many did you go with ?



2wheelsx2 said:


> Haven't updated in a while as there was no change. Some changes coming soon, so I thought I would post.
> 
> Red lotus is taking off. I'm using only Root Medic tabs and sporadic Excel dosing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have a bunch of these guys in quarantine, waiting to go in the cube when they get fattened up a bit.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

So, after 2 weeks of being away, 2 water changes and a few live blackworm feedings, I see this:










Seems to be happy with the crew:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Gary,
> 
> I see from that pic you have went with some bloodfins too ? They are neat arent they!Picked up 40 from charles and they have settled in nicely with my wild tefe's.I l love they way they school tightly if the tefes are near by and are always begging for food! how many did you go with ?


I actually got the fire green tetras. I wanted the green contrast. I looked at the bloodfins for quite a while but decided to go with the fire greens. I got 2 dozen of the little guys.


----------



## Luke78

My bad could of sworn they looked liked bloodfins sorry about that.Those little fire greens were nice as well, but their size concerned since my cardinals were the same size minus a few, and became lunch for my discus.So i went with the bloodfins instead.The dawn tetras look amazing as well at pat's house.Tefe's look great by the way, sure have adjusted well and growing.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I actually got the fire green tetras. I wanted the green contrast. I looked at the bloodfins for quite a while but decided to go with the fire greens. I got 2 dozen of the little guys.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yes, they're still in quarantine, so only the red shows prominently. I am also concerned about the size, so I plan on fattening them up a bit.


----------



## josephl

Discus are looking really good


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Luke and Joseph. As a discus n00b, I've relied heavily on the the feedback and advice of the experienced keepers here, more so than any other forum on the web.


----------



## Luke78

Iam gonna second what you said in your last post, to have access to people and resources at your fingertips, and all of it being local is priceless.I had my doubts about keeping discus as well(new to it myself),but with some time,help and experience from others eased my worries.Ive realised that with patience& time,being consistent with your maintenance, and providing a healthy and varied diet discus are not too demanding.In the end the rewards come ten fold.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

My sentiments exactly. As a matter of fact, because of the way Discus like to eat, I've had a lot less trouble with them than with the various specialized diets of my myriad of plecos.


----------



## seanyuki

Nice looking discus Garry and thank for posting them.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Francis. If I only had more space I'd get another tank for domestics.


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## Luke78

I dont know how you do it with all those plecos,so many mouths to feed and making sure everyone eats is a big assignment.One thing i noticed with my tefe's was in the beginning they were picky eaters, but as time passed on and they settled in they started to accept any kind of food.The ones you got have an interesting spotted feature/ pattern to them.I guess it make them unique,but after doing some research spotted ones are more likely to be sought after than your plain greens&browns.



2wheelsx2 said:


> My sentiments exactly. As a matter of fact, because of the way Discus like to eat, I've had a lot less trouble with them than with the various specialized diets of my myriad of plecos.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yes, that's what I was told, that the spotted ones were more desirable, but I seem to like them all. 

As for the plecos, they don't need to eat as often as other fish, so I've learned to feed a little of this, a little of that and keep the right ones together and that made a lot of difference. I lost a number of them in the beginning because I didn't understand the dietary requirements and how to feed them.


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## hp10BII

The tank, the fish and especially the discus are looking really nice.


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## jobber

the cube has matured quite well. the fish look so comfy in there.
still can't believe the hungry hungry pleco's munching on the plants. haha


----------



## Chappy

Hey Gary - the tank looks GREAT. The only thing missing is a couple of females for those boys!!!! Perhaps a solomon and cuip  I just may know someone who's selling off their wild collection


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## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Hey Gary - the tank looks GREAT. The only thing missing is a couple of females for those boys!!!! Perhaps a solomon and cuip  I just may know someone who's selling off their wild collection


Thanks Shell...now who would that be? 

Stop tempting me!


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## Chappy

I'll send you pictures when I get home tonight......will that help???  Charles told me his secret trick for increasing aeration in a tank and man, oh MAN does it make a difference. Their colors are just popping.


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## 2wheelsx2

Got some new friends for the cube today, thanks to help from a bud. Currently in quarantine:





































And for comparison, one of the current inhabitants of the cube after a lbw feeding:


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## charles

more froggies... you need to make room for another blue eye


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## target

Very nice. Looking forward to seeing them in the cube


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## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> more froggies... you need to make room for another blue eye


Hahaha...no blue eye in that tank, but I do have plans for another big friend to go in there at the right time, right Charles? 



target said:


> Very nice. Looking forward to seeing them in the cube


Yeah, it'll be soon. These fish are extremely healthy and quite large. Larry ships good sized L134's. Well worth the money in my opinion. And we also got a bonus L333 I couldn't get a pic of.


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## Chappy

Very nice, Gary. Will they be in q for "10 days" LOL!!!!!!


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## 2wheelsx2

May be several months.  I already have 4 L10a, a L066, 24 green fire tetras in there. Those have been there for 14 days already.  No reason for me to disturb anything as there's plenty of room in the 20 gallon.


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## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Got some new friends for the cube today, thanks to help from a bud. Currently in quarantine:
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> And for comparison, one of the current inhabitants of the cube after a lbw feeding:


wow. you sure love 'em frogs 
too bad there are not any blue eyed leopard frogs.
nice fish gary!


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## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> wow. you sure love 'em frogs
> too bad there are not any blue eyed leopard frogs.
> nice fish gary!


Thanks Ming. Still working on getting some more blue fish for the 125.


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## davej

They look great Gary!


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Dave. If only they would start churning out the eggs like yours now.


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## jobber

i must admit, these frogs are beauties. 
i just sat there staring at mine for the longest time just admiring the patterns.
thanks for the PA influence


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## 2wheelsx2

The more PA's there are, the more chance the local suppliers will bring in more exotic species, so it works to my advantage.


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## crazy72

They're beautiful, Gary. Just beautiful. And yes, it would be pretty exciting if you could get these guys to spawn.


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## 2wheelsx2

It's been a while since I've had an update. Some new developments, as I've got a few guys from April in quarantine:


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## Luke78

Wow, those look great,iam gonna take a stab at it and say they are red alenquers? could be wrong How many all together ?


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## 2wheelsx2

Close. I also looked at Alenquers, but these are the F1 Cuipera's that Forrest bred. April has lots more. And the bigger ones are nicer!


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## April

There's lots' more until I hide some for myself! They should colour up alot more I'm a dew days.


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## 2wheelsx2

The 3 I have is already looking really good. Once I get them in the cube in 3 or 4 weeks they'll look amazing. Anyone wanting any should get them while they're hot!


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## target

Man, those look awesome! The cube is filling up eh?


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## 2wheelsx2

> Man, those look awesome! The cube is filling up eh?


Thanks. I really like them. And I think the cube is technically full now, not just filling up. I think someone has some space in a 46 gallon bow though.


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## target

Lol. It won't be a QT tank for long.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yep, this is only a temp quarantine. The 20 gallon is my long term quarantine. Just gotta get the froggies outta there.


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## eternity302

OH WOW!!! They are gorgeous!!!! =)


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Jackson. I almost regret not getting more.


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## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Got some new friends for the cube today, thanks to help from a bud. Currently in quarantine:
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> And for comparison, one of the current inhabitants of the cube after a lbw feeding:





2wheelsx2 said:


> It's been a while since I've had an update. Some new developments, as I've got a few guys from April in quarantine:


Nice new additions. They look well acclimatized. 
Can't wait until the even more brighter colours show.

Had to rebump the frog pictures. Gorgeous fish!


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## eternity302

I can only say I'm extremely Jealous!


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## 2wheelsx2

Been feeding lbw, NLS thera A, Dainichi, and all has been eaten by the Cuipera so far. Did a 40% water tonight too and everyone is happy.


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## 2wheelsx2

Pic of the rams after a water change. Unfortunately, the canopy is still not mounted - due to no fault of target's. I just haven't had time to go get the screws to fit the lights. Now I have the screws, but it's already Sunday afternoon and I have to wait until a weeknight.


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## target

Love the rams. I need to get some more in my tank. And can't wait to see the canopy on top. You should have told me you needed screws. I have lots.


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## 2wheelsx2

Haha...I didn't really think about it until I started to work on it. I decided I was going to use the stock "standoffs" instead of screwing the reflectors into the canopy, so that I can have 4 clips per bulb holding it on and the reflectors would be independent of the bulbs. This way I can unmount the entire reflector and clean it from hard water deposits when I replace a bulb.


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## target

Good plan. Hurry up and get it finished. Lol


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## 2wheelsx2

Nobody is in more of a hurry than me, having to deal with that rat's nest of wires for all the lighting I made by just sitting everything on top.  Lowering the humidity in the living room would be nice about now too.


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## 2wheelsx2

A carpenter I'm not, so it took me over an hour to measure and figure how I wanted the lights to be set and then screw the reflectors and the moonlights on....this was after 20 minutes of trying to figure out if the standoffs were going to work or not. They weren't. 

You'll see the 2 sets of 24" reflectors, and 2 white moonlight modules from Digital Aquatics and 2 blue Ecoplus 3/4 watt moonlights.


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## target

looking good. Your cords long enough to still be able to fully open the front half?


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## 2wheelsx2

Yup, I decided to attach the ballasts to the back of the canopy and run short extension cords to the controller plugs. Plenty of length. That's part of the reason it took so long. I kept placing them and measuring which configuration will work. Once I got the fluorescents, it took me 5 minutes to mount the moonlights.


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## tony1928

Looking good! That should be plenty of light for the cube. What light kit are you using again for the T5's? It's surprising how much intensity a good set of reflectors creates. I really liked my Tek lights before.


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## 2wheelsx2

It's Hagen GLO's 24". The reflectors are Sunlight Supply. I had to light up the tank without the reflectors this morning as I cannot put the canopy up by myself and I finished up after everyone was in bed. Boy, it only gets 25% of the light in the tank without the reflectors.

If I had to do it over again I might have just used 1 set of t5's and a second set of LED's for the main lighting.


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## davej

2wheelsx2 said:


> If I had to do it over again I might have just used 1 set of t5's and a second set of LED's for the main lighting.


You worried the discus are going to get sunburn? 

Can't wait to see it with the canopy installed!


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## 2wheelsx2

davej said:


> You worried the discus are going to get sunburn?
> 
> Can't wait to see it with the canopy installed!


There's plenty of shade in the tank, especially with the overgrown Red Lotus.  Was more concerned about bulb replacement/power and the shimmer more than anything.

Canopy will gone on tonight, but have already been talking to Daniel about a replacement should I go LED....it's a life of neverending upgrades when you're as picky as I am.


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## 2wheelsx2

Unveiling of the finished tank:

Gratuitous moonlight shot (ISO compensation and long exposure made it a bit bright):









As it sits in the living room. Even my wife commented on how sweet it is. Thanks again Daniel!


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## Ra's al Ghul

Sick,very nice tank


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## target

That looks great! Definitely finishes the tank off nicely.


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## Claudia

Beautiful!!!!


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## davej

WOW!!!!
Looks great!


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks everyone. It certainly has been a long time coming.


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## mdwflyer

Looks very sharp, nice!


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## shaobo

The finished product looks great Gary!!!~~   !!!


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks again. I forgot to mention that I added the Cuiperas from April in there last night and through the mounting of the canopy, freaked everyone out that I couldn't get any pics of fish. They look awesome in the cube now that it's not barebottomed like the quarantine tank. I don't know how people manage to keep nice looking fish in barebottomed tanks, to be honest, since the fish freak out and go slamming into the glass every time I step into the room.


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## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Unveiling of the finished tank:
> 
> Gratuitous moonlight shot (ISO compensation and long exposure made it a bit bright):
> 
> 
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> 
> As it sits in the living room. Even my wife commented on how sweet it is. Thanks again Daniel!


That is quite a sweet setup. You're quite the patient hobbyist...it's already 7 months since you initially setup the cube. Reminds of going to the Vancouver Aquarium 

Looking forward to the other additions in the tank.


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## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Looking forward to the other additions in the tank.


I think that's about it for this tank, unless I find something rare that I want to put in there. Might replace the black neons with Emperor Tetras at some point, but that's still in the thinking stage.


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## josephl

Amazing looking tank. Love the lights and stand


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## 2wheelsx2

Still haven't got a chance to get a good pic of the Cuiperas, as I just got home from a camping trip, but tonight, after a big water change, BIG NEWS!




























I managed to catch 2 and put them in my 20 gallon grow out tank with a number of other small plecos and cherry shrimp growing out. So I can follow their development closely.

Big thanks to Charles for letting me have the parents!


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## Luke78

Congrats Gary,they look pretty neat with some colour and pattern to them! All the best!


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Luke. I'm pretty excited as this is my first conscious effort to try to get some breeding going. I got an L129 baby in the 125 and probably more that I haven't caught/seen but they were purely by accident.


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## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Still haven't got a chance to get a good pic of the Cuiperas, as I just got home from a camping trip, but tonight, after a big water change, BIG NEWS!
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> I managed to catch 2 and put them in my 20 gallon grow out tank with a number of other small plecos and cherry shrimp growing out. So I can follow their development closely.
> 
> Big thanks to Charles for letting me have the parents!


Congratulations big daddy gary! what was the reaction when you first saw the first one?


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## 2wheelsx2

I was scraping algae on the glass and almost scraped them off. Then my wife thought I was a lunatic as I screamed for her to drop whatever she was doing and get the DSLR!


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## Chappy

Too cute froggies!!!

You know I was thinking that the cube is going to be way over stocked once you add those designer cuip-wannabes. There are two tefes in your tank that just look really out of place and throw off the whole zen thing you're going for. I'd be happy to take them off your hands just so that you can restore harmony!!! You know I'm only kidding - I'm right back up to 14 in the 90 gallon 

Let's see some updated pics, please


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## April

The tank looks great and the babies are very cute! Congrats.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks everyone. I caught another baby today and saw another I couldn't catch. And I found one male looking to be guarding another clutch. I guess once you get the hormones going, it doesn't stop. I also got some pics of the Curiperas today, but have not had a chance to post upload it. I just figured out why everyone was shy. I lost the Solomon 2 days ago, and since that time, the other discus have all come out to play. I guess they were all stressed that one was sick. So gain some, lose some.

Pics soon to be up.


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## 2wheelsx2

Ok, I finally had time to take some acceptable pics. Not great, but they'll have to do for now. This is what you get if you run out to April's in time to get some:





































And obligatory Tefe shot:


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## giraffee

Those are beautiful Gary! What are they called?


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## 2wheelsx2

> Those are beautiful Gary! What are they called?


They are Curipera crosses. Not sure what wild Curiperas were crossed with.


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## Luke78

One lucky guy, they look great! Looks like they are settling in nicely.Do the tefe's like their new neighbors Saw less manzanita at aprils the other day? You cleaned house didnt you ? Did a few pieces make it in here as well ? i see a few so far,could be wrong


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Luke. There's been some nipping and chasing, but for the most part, it's been peaceful. The other 3 have been in there over a month now, it's just the one new one.

I did clean some manzanita out, but this tank has lots already, so the new stuff is going in the bowfront and in the 125.


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## josephl

Looking good. I knew we would eventually get you over to the domestic, or at least 1/2 domestic side


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## jobber

Nice pick ups Gary 
A+++ wood and fish.


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## 2wheelsx2

josephl said:


> Looking good. I knew we would eventually get you over to the domestic, or at least 1/2 domestic side


Yeah, I am not too particular about it, as long as it looks like a good fit and I didn't think wildly blue fish would fit. Otherwise it'd be full of Blue Scorpions. 

I still think about doing a domestic tank some time. Perhaps in the 46 bow now that I have success in breeding L134 in the cube.



jobber604 said:


> Nice pick ups Gary
> A+++ wood and fish.


Thanks. I can't wait to add the new wood to the other tanks. They're just starting to sink now.


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## tang daddy

Nice new discus Gary, I really like the look of the new ones....


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## Chappy

josephl said:


> Looking good. I knew we would eventually get you over to the domestic, or at least 1/2 domestic side


Don't do it Gary. Once you've kept wilds you'll never be happy with domestic skittle rainbow fish  The tank looks great, by the way.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I just want healthy happy fish, so be it wild domestic, hybrid, or mutants, I'm ok with it.  What I don't need is high maintenance fish, and so far, the discus I've had seem to be low maintenance except feeding and water changes. They have caused me fewer headaches than my plecos.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Finally got a good pic of one of the little guys in my 20 gallon tonight. So now I'm not so sure that all of them are L134 babies. This one looks like it might be a Hypan! I have L340, L066 and L333 in there, of which only the L340 came as adults, so I assume it's those guys.


----------



## crazy72

Very nice, Gary. Congrats. All baby fish are cute, but baby plecos particularly so, I find. Enjoy them!


----------



## Diztrbd1

Great pic Gary! Love the new additions too!


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks guys. It's certainly exciting.


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## Luke78

Pretty impresive colouring and markings for such a young pleco,nicely done and an awsome find.


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## 2wheelsx2

Scooped out 2 more this morning. These guys are like rabbits!


----------



## jobber

I thought BNP's were easy to breed now your cube is pumping out fancy pleco's ;0 There must be such activities in that tank.

Are you able to tell the difference between the fries in the 20?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yes, I consulted with Davej and the L134 fry are yellowish and others are whitish with no yellow. So definitely at least 2 types.


----------



## Chappy

Hey Gary: You haven't updated this thread in a week......I'm going through withdrawal :bigsmile:
No word of a lie, even though those crazy cuips ate their last batch, they were picking at the cone again last night. That means if they manage to spawn before Thursday that will be FOUR TIMES in two weeks!!!!! The wilds just HATE them because the cuips have everyone cowering in one small corner of the tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Funny you should say that, I actually took some shots 2 nights ago, but my work schedule has been a big rough and I've been too tired to post the pics and make an update. It'll happen tonight. Those Cupes look amazing now, and are the biggest fish in the tank already.


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## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Those Cupes look amazing now, and are the biggest fish in the tank already.


I know, eh? Mine must be at least 17 inches across and 2 inches thick  Please, don't start :bigsmile:


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## 2wheelsx2

Well considering none of my Tefe's were over 5" (including yours) doesn't take much to be bigger.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Well considering none of my Tefe's were over 5" (including yours) doesn't take much to be bigger.


Don't you count the space they swim in when you measure them? I thought that was standard practice  In that case, I guess my largest would be either the female solomon or a humped head tefe I have - they ARE big fish


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I've seen you pics. Your fish are bigger than mine. My Tefe's are small. Much smaller than the last 2 Charles sold.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> I've seen you pics. Your fish are bigger than mine. My Tefe's are small. Much smaller than the last 2 Charles sold.


That's what dryer lint does to a fish  !!!!!!! Now that I've got a kilo of the stuff, I'm just about force feeding the fish 4-6 times/day and they really are getting HUGE. They also eat other stuff, but they prefer the freeze-dried blackworms over anything (yup, even live )

Oh, and they only LOOK bigger because I throw them all into the Chi before I take pictures and tell everyone it's a 90 gallon


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That's why your Tefe's in my tank are smaller than the Cupes. Started on lint. Cupes were probably raised on beef heart and now get juicy lbw! 

Would you rather have a rib eye steak or beef jerky. Case closed!


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> That's why your Tefe's in my tank are smaller than the Cupes. Started on lint. Cupes were probably raised on beef heart and now get juicy lbw!
> 
> Would you rather have a rib eye steak or beef jerky. Case closed!


We've had this discussion before - remember the story I told you about me and my buddy packing away 5 pounds of beef jerky he made???!!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Some pics I recently took. Sadly since these pics were taken, 2 of the Tefe's I got from Peter met their demise. Just turned black and next thing you know they were gone. Must have been going on for some time (the bigger one did look kind of off for a while), but with such a heavily scaped tank, it was hard to see when they were hiding. Everyone else seems to have gone back to normal now, so that's a relief.

Anyway, here goes:








'



















As you can see, the Cupes are nice and thick and the healthy Tefe's are well coloured up.


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

Some nice pictures,and the remaining wilds look good.Iam sorry to hear about your losses,this must be a hit to the setup.I know when i lost a few plecos,i wasnt impressed at all,and thought i had taken the right steps to make everyone happy.Sometimes these things happen i guess,but still makes you think whats wrong? and why me ? Where did i go wrong sort of speak.Thanks for sharing your pics!


----------



## Chappy

Sorry to hear about your fish, Gary. Like Luke, said - unfortunately it happens and usually you can't ever put your finger on what caused it. Hopefully the rest will be healthy and strong  If you're thinking of adding any more wilds, there will be some VERY interesting flat fish coming out this way in a little while. I'll email you


----------



## josephl

-N/A- said:


> Sorry to hear about your fish, Gary. Like Luke, said - unfortunately it happens and usually you can't ever put your finger on what caused it. Hopefully the rest will be healthy and strong  If you're thinking of adding any more wilds, there will be some VERY interesting flat fish coming out this way in a little while. I'll email you


Oh no, is DJ selling discus again?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Gary,
> 
> Some nice pictures,and the remaining wilds look good.Iam sorry to hear about your losses,this must be a hit to the setup.I know when i lost a few plecos,i wasnt impressed at all,and thought i had taken the right steps to make everyone happy.Sometimes these things happen i guess,but still makes you think whats wrong? and why me ? Where did i go wrong sort of speak.Thanks for sharing your pics!


Thanks Luke. It's always tough to lose fish one has had for a while. Luckily nothing else seems affected. The plecos continue to breed. I fished out 2 new fry yesterday after a water change.



-N/A- said:


> Sorry to hear about your fish, Gary. Like Luke, said - unfortunately it happens and usually you can't ever put your finger on what caused it. Hopefully the rest will be healthy and strong  If you're thinking of adding any more wilds, there will be some VERY interesting flat fish coming out this way in a little while. I'll email you


Thanks Shelley, looking forward to it.



josephl said:


> Oh no, is DJ selling discus again?


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

Nice to hear you found more fry.Sounds like some of your plecos have been busy Always a positive sign to see this.

Shelley,

You getting the same ''classified information/security clearence" regarding the flat fish as I ?  

Joseph,

Ouch,gonna stay far away from this one!


----------



## Chappy

Luke78 said:


> _You getting the same ''classified information/security clearence" regarding the flat fish as I ?  _


If you managed to score the same intel that I got, I would be VERY impressed


----------



## Luke78

:lol:gonna PM you later,curious to see if we are both right! This will benefit gary more than us,he needs to stock up again!



-N/A- said:


> If you managed to score the same intel that I got, I would be VERY impressed


----------



## Chappy

Luke78 said:


> :lol:gonna PM you later,curious to see if we are both right! This will benefit gary more than us,he needs to stock up again!


Oh, if it's what I'm talking about, it can and will benefit a LOT of people interested in AAA quality wild discus.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Oh, if it's what I'm talking about, it can and will benefit a LOT of people interested in AAA quality wild discus.


How about the A- people like me?


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## josephl

2wheelsx2 said:


> How about the A- people like me?


I'm not sure it's A-, you have the smart fish that know that lbw are much tastier than dryer lint, kind of like humans should know that fresh grilled steak tastes better than dry unflavored jerky(it's not like they flavor lint) :bigsmile:


----------



## Chappy

josephl said:


> I'm not sure it's A-, you have the smart fish that know that lbw are much tastier than dryer lint, kind of like humans should know that fresh grilled steak tastes better than dry unflavored jerky(it's not like they flavor lint) :bigsmile:


How is it that you are too busy with closings and being out of town to even reply to my emails and pm's for two weeks, but you DO have the time to diss me on my own thread  Knock it the hell off with jerky already. Obviously my fish are FAR superior to yours if they know how much safer and healthier (parasites can't survive freeze-drying which has minute, if any, detrimental affect on nutritional value) dryer lint/cotton fluff/dental floss/belly button lint is for them than live. Geeeshhhhh   
By the way, hi - nice to hear from you


----------



## 2wheelsx2

So I've been wondering how my little pleco fry have been surviving the onslaught of all these fish in the tank. I caught 8 more yesterday because I figured out during a water change where they were hiding:


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## Chappy

So so so so cool! Tell them to grow up already - I want them in my tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Unfortunately those are L340's, not L134's, but I think I'll have enough for everyone!


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Unfortunately those are L340's, not L134's, but I think I'll have enough for everyone!


Oh my bad - I thought they were L250's. I don't want them now


----------



## Chappy

Seriously - when are we going to Chuckie's.......I got a pocket full of cash and an itchin' to buy some flat fish !!!!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Oh my bad - I thought they were L250's. I don't want them now


If I had those, would I post pics for people to see instead of just churning them out for ca$h? 



-N/A- said:


> Seriously - when are we going to Chuckie's.......I got a pocket full of cash and an itchin' to buy some flat fish !!!!!!


Not until lbw day.


----------



## Chappy

Monday? No problem. I have patience


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> If I had those, would I post pics for people to see instead of just churning them out for ca$h?


Even ME???? After all the dryer lint I've supplied you???!!!!


----------



## Luke78

Wait, wait you guys going monday ? Shall we setup a field trip of sorts ? Whos in


----------



## Luke78

Nice find gary, odd place to hiding but they must use every square inch of your tank i bet.L340 you say ? well iam interested and getting in line for one if you sell.How many does that make now? They seem well feed and have nice patterns to them already



2wheelsx2 said:


> So I've been wondering how my little pleco fry have been surviving the onslaught of all these fish in the tank. I caught 8 more yesterday because I figured out during a water change where they were hiding:


----------



## Diztrbd1

Great pic Gary! They are quite adorable. Nice to see such success with this tank...a true inspiration


----------



## Chappy

Luke78 said:


> Wait, wait you guys going monday ? Shall we setup a field trip of sorts ? Whos in


Ah, young grasshopper - we cannot disclose our exact meeting time. Only the inner circle of our mysterious group knows that information as well as the secret handshake  As I said, we will surely leave some for you and the rest :bigsmile: Be patient.....in time, you will learn our ways and then be at the top of the line for new arrivals 

Feel free to still bring Timbits and/or coffee. I take mine black, please


----------



## monkE

I'll do one better, I'll bring beer and chips, now can i get in the inner circle too?? lol  

Great pics luke!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Nice find gary, odd place to hiding but they must use every square inch of your tank i bet.L340 you say ? well iam interested and getting in line for one if you sell.How many does that make now? They seem well feed and have nice patterns to them already


I have other Hypans in there, L333, L066, but the L340 are the only adults. WC from Charles. The L134 are breeding in there too, but either the babies are being eaten or I have not caught any yet. So far I have caught only 2 confirmed L134 fry and over a dozen L340 fry (or what I think are L340).


----------



## 2wheelsx2

monkE said:


> Great pics luke!


Luke does take good pics too, but this is the OTHER 100 gallon thread.


----------



## monkE

2wheelsx2 said:


> Luke does take good pics too, but this is the OTHER 100 gallon thread.


HAHAHA i was just wondering how there was 80+ pages already!

Well great pics wheels! lol


----------



## Luke78

Well, after this little "timbit" i shall withdraw you from the coffee/donut list
I guess we can replace the one we lose! hahahaha ! Gary, my aplogies for derailing your thread here.



-N/A- said:


> Ah, young grasshopper - we cannot disclose our exact meeting time. Only the inner circle of our mysterious group knows that information as well as the secret handshake  As I said, we will surely leave some for you and the rest :bigsmile: Be patient.....in time, you will learn our ways and then be at the top of the line for new arrivals
> 
> Feel free to still bring Timbits and/or coffee. I take mine black, please


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Gary, my aplogies for derailing your thread here.


Hahaha...no problem. I'm probably one who jacked my own thread first.


----------



## Luke78

So theres the possibily you may have a hybrid on your hands? This can occur within the Hypan family correct ?



2wheelsx2 said:


> I have other Hypans in there, L333, L066, but the L340 are the only adults. WC from Charles. The L134 are breeding in there too, but either the babies are being eaten or I have not caught any yet. So far I have caught only 2 confirmed L134 fry and over a dozen L340 fry (or what I think are L340).


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> So theres the possibily you may have a hybrid on your hands? This can occur within the Hypan family correct ?


There is, and I was trying to avoid it by only have L333 and L134 in the tank. But when most of the L333 died, I didn't have other replacements....

If they are hybrids, I will only sell or give away them as singles so they will not be bred. We'll know soon enough. But based on the colouration and patterns, I may actually have both L333 and L340 fry in there, as some of them look different. I did buy one adult L333 from Charles at one point and 2 or 3 juvies left. They definitely are not L066.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I haven't been updating my threads lately as I've been frantically managing a bacterial infection that seems to have finally cleared in the 125 gallon (pleco tank) and a minor issue in this tank.

It seems my fish have developed some sort of resistance to ich so that they have some minor, not easily visible amount on them and when a new fish is introduced and there is stress, there is an outbreak. This symptom may explain why some people suggest ich is everywhere all the time, which I do not believe is true.

Anyway, about 10 days ago, I started seeing some darkening of 2 of the Tefe's, and then I got 3 new Tefe's from Charles and 1 of them developed ich. See reason above. Then a second fish got it, but none of my older fish got it, and none of it appears in Charles' tanks. So I treated the tank with Quick-Cure and raised the temp from 28 to 29. I don't know if it was the ich or the meds, but one Tefe started to slough slime coat like crazy. I was advised to raise the temp more and do more water changes, so now I'm at 30 C and doing 50%+ water changes every other day, and the fish does not to be getting worse, but I have to wait it out to see if it will get better.

I'll try to get some pics to show what I'm talking about.

In the meantime, I'm still finding more Hypan fry in the tank, but have not been making the transfers since I have the ich problem. I also saw what appear to be cory eggs on the glass beside my HK550, but it was gone in a matter of hours.


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

With all the precautions,equipment,and maintaince you do this happens?Iam sorry to hear.Hope this is just minor and it eases off in both setups.Too much at risk to lose.On a the good note,glad to hear the breeding program is being extended! If you need any extra equipment,meds,etc got some kicking around give me a shout.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks for the offer Luke. The biggest problem I have in this tank is that I don't currently have a UV sterilizer and didn't drill holes to plumb one in directly. I don't want one inline with the Eheim as the flow is too high unless I get a massive one and I don't have the space for. So I'll have to suck it up and use a maxijet inside the tank for a closed loop and I haven't gotten around to it yet as J&L is out of Coralife and I decided not to order one online. But it'll happen soon so that I never have to worry about ich in this tank ever again. I already have a 6X on the 125 gallon and a 3X on the 46 bow.


----------



## josephl

Sorry to hear about the ich

BTW, what did you do with that 46 gallon bow? The goldfish that we had discussed earlier in the year are almost ready for a new home now that fall is here... 

:bigsmile:


----------



## giraffee

It sounds a lot like what we had with the altums.... Hope it gets better soon for you Gary.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

josephl said:


> Sorry to hear about the ich
> 
> BTW, what did you do with that 46 gallon bow? The goldfish that we had discussed earlier in the year are almost ready for a new home now that fall is here...
> 
> :bigsmile:


You mean the quarantine/goldfish tank that's a pleco journal now? 22 cardinals and 1 stray green fire tetra, 6 L134 growing out, 3 L75's and 4 L368's growing out for you and Luke.  Had to warm up the guest room in the basement somehow. 



giraffee said:


> It sounds a lot like what we had with the altums.... Hope it gets better soon for you Gary.


Thank Vira. Your altum story is essentially why I'm raising the temperature more (after already some prompting from Shelley) and doing all these water changes.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thank Vira. Your altum story is essentially why I'm raising the temperature more (after already some prompting from Shelley) and doing all these water changes.


Prompting = nagging (constant, repeat nagging)


----------



## giraffee

Shelley, whatever works )) 

Gary, Post those pictures so that our knowledge database grows a bit stronger...


----------



## jobber

Hope the tanks are back to normal and the breakout gone. Seems the new fish are stressed having to adapt to an existing and established group.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Hope the tanks are back to normal and the breakout gone. Seems the new fish are stressed having to adapt to an existing and established group.


Thanks, Ming. Still haven't some problems, but some have gotten better. It appears that one hasn't gotten better. 50%+ water change every day or every other day (whenever I can manage now) and temp steady at 31C.

Here are some pics.

Cuip showing some peeling slime coat:









Different Cuip with some scratches from fighting:









One of the worst Tefes, all dark:









The worst Tefe and the bad Cuip:









Most of the group, showing the dark colouring and slime coat peeling:









It's obviously not all doom and gloom or I would have given up. 2 of the Tefe's look spectacular and 2 of the 3 new Tefes are really starting to colour up.

And of course, the plecos continue to go at it. Here's one fry growing out in the 20 gallon, munching on almond leaf:


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

Just went through some of the photos you posted,and it was upsetting to see this going on.Frustrating i bet on your behalf seeing this day in,day out.Hope it reverses itself and all settles soon enough.What numbers you getting(water perimeters) when running a few tests? Is it just these guys that got hit? and not everyone else? Even though this is happening,plecos are still breeding? Interesting that they are immune to that.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yep, it's just the discus, everything else are breeding and fighting. I haven't measured too many parameters lately, because I'm changing water so often, but at Charles' prompting a while back (like 3 weeks ago), I checked and ph was 6.5 - 6.8 depending on time of day and time since water change (as I use almond leaves). Don't know GH and KH and I only measure TDS, which is around 130 - 180, from dosing Equilibrium, Epsom salts, some aquarium salt and KH2PO4 (because of GSA).

Still not much change, but I'm doing a water change as I type and when the lights come on, I'll take more pics if there is any change. Temps are now at 31.5C.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Nothing much to report, just a couple of new pics. Most everyone is healthy except one Tefe, which looks like it's getting pop eye.



















As you can see Shelley, your two heavily spotted Tefe's are still alive and well. Tough buggers.


----------



## jobber

Nice to see the bright colours back on the tefe.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> As you can see Shelley, your two heavily spotted Tefe's are still alive and well. _*Tough buggers*_.


Considering the abuse and neglect they suffered through while they were with me, it doesn't surprise me they're so tough  I warned you what would happen if you didn't sing to them 

I agree - it's wonderful to see their colors coming back. Fingers tightly crossed that they will stop being goofy and settle down like the well-behaved discus they are  You're doing a great job with them, Gary. I know how frustrating and nervewracking it is when things don't go well, but once they're back to themselves you'll remember why it's all worth it


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

Glad to see and hear some good news is coming out from all of this.Those spotted Tefe's look real good,it just adds that extra shine(spots) to them doesnt it? Liking the almost full tank shot as well with the others,and layout of your setup(liking the branches in there).So has everything 'water wise' settled? or still battling whats left of it?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I think the healthy ones are going to stay that way, but there are 2 discus that appear "iffy", but time will tell. All I'm doing now is feeding them as much as they will eat, keeping the temps elevated and changing lots of water. I have the temp now down to 29.5 C and it'll stay there.


----------



## jobber

Maybe Shelley is right...you may need to sing to them more often to heal them. You need to look beyond conventional and back towards some natural traditional singing ....perhaps some creedence clearwater revival or Tom Petty. Just buggin.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Maybe Shelley is right...you may need to sing to them more often to heal them. You need to look beyond conventional and back towards some natural traditional singing ....perhaps some creedence clearwater revival or Tom Petty. Just buggin.


I only croon Blue Rodeo or The Boss, and it ain't pretty....


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> I only croon Blue Rodeo or The Boss, and it ain't pretty....


They tend to go for anything from Green Day - remember the video I sent you  I knew you wouldn't believe me unless you saw it with your own eyes  I tried rap once but it made them too aggressive


----------



## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> I only croon Blue Rodeo or The Boss, and it ain't pretty....


Poor fish.


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> Poor fish.


 Hey, Franck.....maybe that explains what happened to them in the first place  I take it back, Gary ..... whatever you do, DON'T sing to the fish


----------



## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> Hey, Franck.....maybe that explains what happened to them in the first place  I take it back, Gary ..... whatever you do, DON'T sing to the fish


That's right. I'm sure I'd lose my colours too.


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> That's right. I'm sure I'd lose my colours too.


Yeah, I'm shedding my slime coat just thinking about it 

You know we all luv you, Gary


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

Nice choices like both myself, but Bruce "the boss" Springsteen is the man! Iam sure the cube wont mind hearing his concert! Dont listen the rest of the 'tasteless' group here! Messing with all of you!



2wheelsx2 said:


> I only croon Blue Rodeo or The Boss, and it ain't pretty....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> That's right. I'm sure I'd lose my colours too.


Haha...I agree.



-N/A- said:


> Yeah, I'm shedding my slime coat just thinking about it


Hey hey now, this forum is G rated! 



Luke78 said:


> Gary,
> 
> Nice choices like both myself, but Bruce "the boss" Springsteen is the man! Iam sure the cube wont mind hearing his concert! Dont listen the rest of the 'tasteless' group here! Messing with all of you!


Yeppir. I've been to 3 of his concerts which is the most I've seen anyone live (2x Blue Rodeo). You sure get your money's worth. Tunnel of Love tour was a 5 hour concert in Tacoma, back when I was still young.


----------



## giraffee

Not only we get to see Gary's fish but broaden our musical horizons. Amazing. )


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Everyone appears recovered and I had the camera out and decided to shoot a few quick shots.


----------



## jobber

Great to hear the tank is back to normal. Now I see why discus 
It's like night and day from the last time I saw these guys. The red looks like a hotrod's pain t job (Rodimus Prime). I'm merely speculating, but I think the discus have been sung to.
Nice pics and hope to see some discus dancing soon.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> I'm merely speculating, but I think the discus have been sung to.


Yup, they get "twinkle, twinkle, little star" from my daughter.


----------



## er201

what a great set up


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I added 3 little baby BNP's to this tank this week, things to Jobber604. And I also discovered a little L134 which has been growing in the tank. Guess I was overly paranoid to pull them out as they appear to be doing fine in the tank. Going forward, I'm going to try leaving everyone alone to do their thing. Will get some updated pics soon, as I have some time off from work coming. The Cuips are doing great. The big one has really grown thick and large. The new Tefe's from Charles are also finally settled in and looking great also.


----------



## jobber

Don't worry. There's now plenty more where that came from. The third batch are coming out of the caves now. Your cube has so much hidden activities, still surprises me that there are lots of plecos hiding and blue rams.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...I don't need any more. My plecos are eating me out of house and home. Between them and my kids I'll have to get another job.


----------



## mdwflyer

What's the latest?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

mdwflyer said:


> What's the latest?


Not much. Work, eat, sleep, water change. Although I'm about to take a big step soon with this tank, so I should take a baseline pic.


----------



## charles

what? another BEP for the cube tank?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> what? another BEP for the cube tank?


Incompatible diet. Would have been a pseuda, but I got baby L134's in there now. Maybe some L174?

Gotta keep everyone guessing. I got big changes coming for this tank this year.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Been really caught up at work lately, but managed to snap a few lousy pics today after a big (75%) water change. Anyone who doesn't like Tefe discus might reconsider....


































Sorry, the focus is lousy as they kept approaching the glass looking for food. Those Frozen Blackworm are really doing their jobs.


----------



## tony1928

Looking good Gary.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Tony, I've noticed it for about a month now, and the colouration is getting deeper every day, but haven't had time to grab a pic. That one in particular, under the correct lighting and focus, display iridescent blue all over and a bright orange fringe. My favourite fish by far.


----------



## jobber

They're looking very healthy and happy. The colours do pop out. Time to build on the colony


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I also noticed 2 baby L134's that I couldn't get pics of. Guess I missed catching quite a few...lucky for me, as only 2of the ones I caught survived.


----------



## monkE

wow looks great man!


----------



## gklaw

Awe inspiring but no way I am getting back into discus


----------



## crazy72

They look stunning, Gary. And this tank has got to be one of the nicest ones I've ever seen.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks for the compliments guys. I'm really finally starting to enjoy this tank.


----------



## jay_leask

wow the 1st pic middle discus looks like it has a black light on it. very nice!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

My discus found some buddies today:


----------



## bunnyrabbit

wow nice! Makes me want to get some discus.


----------



## charles

you should, peter. Joe does real well with his zebra and discus in his 240g


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks. I think everyone should get some wild discus.


----------



## Luke78

Gary they look great! Surprised how nicely they settled in, one giant pack of Tefe's compliments the entire setup! Glad they went to you.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

They're awesome. Thanks again Luke.


----------



## josephl

Looks great Gary. Love the middle one with the blue striations on 1/3 of the body and spots on 1/3 of the body.

Did you ever train them to eat the frozen black worms?


----------



## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> They're awesome. Thanks again Luke.


Are you getting out of discus, Luke?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

josephl said:


> Looks great Gary. Love the middle one with the blue striations on 1/3 of the body and spots on 1/3 of the body.
> 
> Did you ever train them to eat the frozen black worms?


Thanks Joe. Sorry, I forgot to follow up on that. Been busy setting up my business and schmoozing clients. It's funny thing. One day, they just started going crazy for it (I had not gotten any live worms for a week prior to that) and now they eat everything including pellets, mysis shrimp, flakes and freeze dried blackworm, whereas they wouldn't touch it before. So I've been dropping a cube in every night. Might have to be 2 cube now since I doubled the discus count almost.


----------



## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> My discus found some buddies today:


Gary, the colour of the fish are popping right out. The yellow is so yellow now.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yes, the yellow plus the black ring and the orange rim against the blue shimmer really make them stunning in person. The camera can't quite capture it.


----------



## Luke78

Franck,

For the time being iam gonna leave discus,have plans for another project Eventually will go back,enjoyed keeping these wilds. Garry by no means iam i derailing your thread here



crazy72 said:


> Are you getting out of discus, Luke?


----------



## MELLO

I like your theme.. Very nice and clean setup.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

MELLO said:


> I like your theme.. Very nice and clean setup.


Thanks. I'm still figuring things out as a bit of a discus n00b.


----------



## m_class2g

awesome discus setup! looks very peaceful.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

m_class2g said:


> awesome discus setup! looks very peaceful.


Thanks. I'm really enjoying now that I've somewhat gotten the hang of discus.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

More pics now that the newcomers have settled in.

Sorry for the lousy exposure, but I had to shoot with the family in the room so there was a lot of stray light:

















































https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EZRtPUrQKSo/TugtKZdgwQI/AAAAAAAAD6Q/K2WEWZOE79A/s800/DSC_3990.JPG[/IMG]


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Oops, sorry for the red and green dots you see, that's our Xmas tree reflection.


----------



## tony1928

Wow, that tank is so much busier than the last time I saw it in person. Awesome discus tank!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Tony. Yeah, the discus are much more active now that I've increased the size of the group.


----------



## April

You have heckles also now? How many do you have ?

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.274986,-122.835514


----------



## charles

Nice Heckles you got. Wait till they settle in more


----------



## Keri

>


that picture makes me drool!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

April said:


> You have heckles also now? How many do you have ?


I have 3. I was fortunate enough to be at Charles' when a customer didn't want them and wanted Tefe instead.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> Nice Heckles you got. Wait till they settle in more


Thanks Charles. Yeah, they're looking better already. Doing plenty of water changes and feeding lots. Speaking of which, time for a water change.


----------



## charles

2wheelsx2 said:


> Oops, sorry for the red and green dots you see, that's our Xmas tree reflection.


where do you find chritmas tree light that can go inside the tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hey, Atlantis celebrates Xmas too!


----------



## davej

Looking AWESOME Gary!
We will have to get together soon so I can see it in person.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

For sure Dave. So much Xmas stuff going on or I would have come out already, but you're welcome to come any evening.


----------



## jobber

Wow Gary, some of these fish can't be considered flat fish anymore. They're THICK and few of those Tefe are friggin huge!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Ok, finally the fish have gotten acclimated and now beg for food non-stop. Just a bunch of better focused shots. Those of you with sharp eyes will notice a skinny looking runt in the back. It's one of the Cuipea Crosses which never ate well and never grew much and now seems to be not eating....

Anyway, on with the pics.










































































And for good measure, a shot of the fire green tetras. They just don't show well in pictures, but I really like them.


----------



## zhasan

I really like your setup! You've done a fabulous job and those fish look really healthy and happy!!


----------



## jobber

Those are some impressive pictures of the fish Gary. Very nice! Don't spoil the fishies too much


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Trying to put some meat on them thar bones....live blackworm this week.


----------



## monkE

every time you post a new picture i want to tear down my tank and start over! great pics gary! 

I can't believe how crystal clear your tank is!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

monkE said:


> every time you post a new picture i want to tear down my tank and start over! great pics gary!
> 
> I can't believe how crystal clear your tank is!


Thanks. The 75% water change today helps.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

A couple of casual shots while I had to camera out last night for Xmas shots.

Discus:









Baby L134 bred and growing in the tank (about 2 cm long):


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Had a bit of a setback recently...don't really want to get into the details as it still smarts, but thanks to advice from various people (you know who you are), this tank has recovered nicely and I've added a couple of friends who are now my current favourites. I was only able to get pics of one, but here he/she is:


----------



## jobber

That's a big flatfish! What has it been feeding on? Guppies and platies?!??!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> That's a big flatfish! What has it been feeding on? Guppies and platies?!??!


Surprisingly this guy takes more to pellets more than any other discus in the tank other than the big Cuipea X.


----------



## charles

it is eating green fire tetra.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> it is eating green fire tetra.


It's funny you should say that, because I found a dried up green fire on the floor the other day....


----------



## thefishwife

Very nice Gary, your tanks are always stunning!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

thefishwife said:


> Very nice Gary, your tanks are always stunning!


Thanks Kim. A lot of it is due to all the help and encourgement I've received on this forum.


----------



## jobber

Well I saw Charles first hand feeding the discus with utmost TLC. A giant discus in it's own right. Master of the tank.

Sent from my Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


----------



## Algae Beater

those are some extremely happy fish! 

i love seeing tanks with dimensions like this


----------



## crazy72

Sorry to hear that you ran into some problems with this tank, Gary. We forget, when we see it like this all perfect, that problems can happen. But yes, it's still a tank. Glad to hear it's all back under control. Great pics, as always.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> Sorry to hear that you ran into some problems with this tank, Gary. We forget, when we see it like this all perfect, that problems can happen. But yes, it's still a tank. Glad to hear it's all back under control. Great pics, as always.


Thanks Franck. As you say, it happens to all of us. I'm just glad I managed to save a few of my favourites.


----------



## tony1928

That is one large discus. Kinda eclipses the "little" tefes you have in there. I think you need some other big discus to keep up with your Heckels.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> That is one large discus. Kinda eclipses the "little" tefes you have in there. I think you need some other big discus to keep up with your Heckels.


Quite twisting my arm, Tony. We're bad influences on each other.


----------



## Luke78

Gary,

Looking good my friend, glad to hear a few of these guys ended up in good homes and from the looks of things settling in nicely.Truly are impressive to see up front in person.Forget the past, and work with the present! Hopefully our mutual friend here will bring in some nice 'reds' soon, itching to hop back on the discus wagon again.


----------



## zhasan

Very nice big Discus there Gary!


----------



## charles

zhasan said:


> Very nice big Discus there Gary!


I know where you can get some more


----------



## zhasan

charles said:


> I know where you can get some more


Yes sir! I have to pay a visit to you one of these days... I need to get my hand at some of the good stuff that hides in the wood!!


----------



## jobber

I think z is referring to a bep that hides in the wood. Right now, Gary seems to have the biggest bep and if not one of the roundest and thickest green fire eating discus kept at a house.

Sent from my Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> I think z is referring to a bep that hides in the wood. Right now, Gary seems to have the biggest bep and if not one of the roundest and thickest green fire eating discus kept at a house.


Not for long, although I am not sure the other owner has fire green tetras.


----------



## charles

gary's BEP is small compare to this one in my tank.

If you you think his heckel is big, come on over and see the rest of them


----------



## 2wheelsx2

A few pics from tonight. Thanks to Charles for the 2 new additions.


----------



## katienaha

wow I havent checked this thread in quite some time. AMAZING. what a transformation this tank has gone through. its lovely!


----------



## tony1928

Your discus collection is really coming together. Love the mix of those fish. Stunning colours.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

katienaha said:


> wow I havent checked this thread in quite some time. AMAZING. what a transformation this tank has gone through. its lovely!


Thanks Katie. And congrats on your recent nuptials.



tony1928 said:


> Your discus collection is really coming together. Love the mix of those fish. Stunning colours.


Thanks Tony. That's about it for my collection. I don't think I want any more bioload in there. I think that was my mistake the first time. It's a pretty loaded tank. And I'm pretty happy with what I have, thanks to Charles mostly, and of course, the original Tefes from Shelley and Peter, which started me off.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Shot a few photos today. Excuse the Sterbai eggs in the way.


----------



## jobber

These guys are huge now. They look very happy with the bright colouration. The cories and discus must love all those water changes ;D
Are the eggs still there? It's already been 30 minutes.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

They were only shells even in that picture since I did the water change in the morning.


----------



## Sweetpea

Hi there. I've been reading your thread (all 93 pages!!) over the past few days, and just wanted to tell you what a beautiful tank you've created. Thanks for the detailed discussions and all of the picture updates, etc. Very inspirational!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Sweetpea said:


> Hi there. I've been reading your thread (all 93 pages!!) over the past few days, and just wanted to tell you what a beautiful tank you've created. Thanks for the detailed discussions and all of the picture updates, etc. Very inspirational!


Thanks for the kind words. It is my hope that others can learn from my experiences (good and bad) and avoid some of the pitfalls, as I have saved time and money by learning from others.


----------



## rich16

The tank is looking great, I've really enjoyed following this progression. Looks fantastic


----------



## charles

he needs either a BEP in there to complete the collection or 2 more maracana + 1 heckel...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> he needs either a BEP in there to complete the collection or 2 more maracana + 1 heckel...


Wrong diet. I need an L160 and an L24, maybe an LDA105 in there. Maybe some L14. Yeah, that should do it.


----------



## jobber

Sharing what I got to see today. Beautiful and healthy. Thick and big! Look at those colours ;D













Catching the sterbai's in action.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Gotta get me one of those fancy phones.....thanks for posting up.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Just got some random pics tonight. Added some new wood and Alternathera reneckii from Pat. I guess only foresters and fishkeepers get excited about wood.


----------



## arash53

WOW look awesome and unreal  

GOOOODDDDD JOOOBBBBB


----------



## monkE

the new wood looks great Gary! amazing tank, looks better every time I look at it! those discus are beautiful


----------



## charles

Awesome wild discus.


----------



## Morainy

Spectacular!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks for all the compliments. I'm finally settling down to enjoy this tank. Don't think there'll be many additions in the near future, except to replace some of the aging tetras (some of them over 4+ years old now) as they die off.


----------



## charles

should get a couple more maracana and 1 heckel


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> should get a couple more maracana and 1 heckel


Sounds good, the Tefes and small Heckel you sold me on a straight trade up?


----------



## crazy72

Beautiful, Gary. Is this the wood from Tom Barr then?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> Beautiful, Gary. Is this the wood from Tom Barr then?


Thanks. Yes, the tall forked, light coloured one. I also have 2 pieces in my ADA cube, 1 in my 125 and 1 in the 46 bow with 2 smaller pieces soaking in a bucket I'm not sure what to do with yet. One is a very nice gnarly looking thing that would go well in my 20 gallon, but I'd have to remove 1 piece from there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Did some accidental rescaping tonight. I was cleaning one of the HK's and dropped the impeller into the wooded area and had to remove most everything to find it. The subsequent mess led also to a 50% wc and this was about 90 minutes later. Really opened up the viewing areas.


























Sorry the fish were out of focus on the first shot as I was trying to show the scape, but the fish won't get out of the way.


----------



## Luke78

Looks fantastic, everybody happy and settled in! Oh by the way, a few of their friends are left behind at another address, they were hoping to join these guys to claim permanent residence status lol


----------



## Flygirl

This tank looks so alive, so much energy. Love it!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The tank actually looks almost fishless sometimes, believe or not. It's just that when I get out the camera, the discus think it's feeding time and all hover around the glass...


----------



## charles

Then you need more discus in there. I have 3 big one


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> Then you need more discus in there. I have 3 big one


I'll let you know when I want my tank to look like the TnT stock tanks.  Or you can take my 3 small ones in trade any time.


----------



## m_class2g

very nice tank. seeing a lot of nice discus... fighting the urge to start another tank lol


----------



## jobber

OOOoooO. Nice eye-popping colours showing. Have the ground dwelling fish come out more often since opening up the space?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> OOOoooO. Nice eye-popping colours showing. Have the ground dwelling fish come out more often since opening up the space?


Thanks. I do see them more often, but possible because I added a few more recently.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Cleaned the filter yesterday and did a water change today and yesterday to get ready for the busy Easter weekend. Couldn't figure out why there was so much aggression in the tank. Then I saw this:










Better shot:










This is in the backcorner where the intake and outlet are. Don't know if they are a pair, but it's one of the big Heckels and one of the Cuipea crosses from Forrest. Finally, I know I am taking good care of the fish. I thought I would never see this, but I'm pretty excited.


----------



## rwong2k10

nice eggs! congrats!


----------



## tony1928

Congrats Gary! Its great when it just happens by itself. Hopefully we'll see some wigglers soon!


----------



## crazy72

Woot! Well done, Gary. As you say, a sign that they're happy. That's great. 

Little chance for the little ones to survive in there, though. Are you going to leave a night light on or something?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

rwong2k10 said:


> nice eggs! congrats!


Thanks, it's pretty exciting as I never thought it would happen.



tony1928 said:


> Congrats Gary! Its great when it just happens by itself. Hopefully we'll see some wigglers soon!


No idea if they are a viable pair. Could be 2 females or maybe the male didn't fertilize. One good thing is that once it's happened, it'll happen again. Poor little sickly Heckel is getting beat up though, as that's the corner he hides in.



crazy72 said:


> Woot! Well done, Gary. As you say, a sign that they're happy. That's great.
> 
> Little chance for the little ones to survive in there, though. Are you going to leave a night light on or something?


Thanks Franck. Probably zero chance. Moonlights come on from 10 - 11 and then it's lights out and there are plecos and very hungry tetras in there. I noticed that my little Hypan babies have disappeared, from last week.


----------



## charles

I was hoping you are going to say heckel x heckel... That would be something... Keep a night light on.


----------



## jobber

Congratulations Gary. That's a giant leap forward for discus keeping experience. Any news after the night that eggs are still there?



Sent from Samsung Mobile via Tapatalk


----------



## bunnyrabbit

Nice. Good job!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> I was hoping you are going to say heckel x heckel... That would be something... Keep a night light on.


With 9 discus, and only 2 of them Heckels, and no signs which sex they are, I have a better chance of winning the 6/49. 



jobber604 said:


> Congratulations Gary. That's a giant leap forward for discus keeping experience. Any news after the night that eggs are still there?


Left lights out as usual and eggs are all still there this morning. Forgot to mention that the camera angle is the only shot available in the tank. That spot is infinitely defendable since you can only get there one way besides up and down under and about the wood, so nothing is venturing in there now without taking a massive beating. We'll see what happens tonight.



bunnyrabbit said:


> Nice. Good job!


 Thanks Peter. The fish did all the water, all I did was do wc's and feed frozen blackworm.


----------



## EVANDU

wow that‘s so beautify


----------



## April

From the pics they don't look fertilized. But..never know..if not maybe soon...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

April said:


> From the pics they don't look fertilized. But..never know..if not maybe soon...


Since I have no experience with cichlid spawnings, I can't say either way. What I have observed as of this morning though, is that about 10 of the eggs are now opaque while the rest are the translucent, darker colour, which I assume means some got fertilized? Still there after a whole night and morning in the dark which is quite surprising. I'm going to do a smaller water change than normal to keep the eggs submerged tomorrow, so hopefully that doesn't trigger an egg eating contest.


----------



## josephl

2wheelsx2 said:


> Since I have no experience with cichlid spawnings, I can't say either way. What I have observed as of this morning though, is that about 10 of the eggs are now opaque while the rest are the translucent, darker colour, which I assume means some got fertilized? Still there after a whole night and morning in the dark which is quite surprising. I'm going to do a smaller water change than normal to keep the eggs submerged tomorrow, so hopefully that doesn't trigger an egg eating contest.


That should be right, more experienced parents would have picked off the opaque ones but the translucent, darker colour one's should be fertilized. Discus eggs are actualy pretty tough. I have had pairs lay high up on driftwood, so much so that the driftwood was exposed when I did my 50% water changes but the eggs still hatched


----------



## April

Sounds like they were fertilized, pretty cool..


----------



## charles

time to do some video


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks everyone. I was just thinking it was time for a video. I'll try after the water change today.


----------



## jobber

Nicely done. I'm guessing your recent minor rescape and new wood, provided a nice safe area for them to spawn their eggs. Excitement. Look forward to seeing wigglers....on videos in the near future 

Sent from Samsung Mobile via Tapatalk


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Not much to see as the Heckel is not liking the camera in his face. He/she has somewhat abandoned the brood, leaving the Cuip to it, so as you can see, most of the eggs are gone. Did a 50% water change today, and maybe that was part of it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

First things first...since this has become a discus tank, I'll post pics of the latest happenings. A second Heckel/Cuipeau pair have formed and laid on another piece of wood, but this time near the front of the tank after I repositioned some wood after a water change. So now 2 corners are occupied and everyone else is getting beat up.










































You can see the Heckel which I think is the male of the pair to the right of the pictures, trying to attack me and the camera.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

And of course, there are plecos in my tanks...and I just had to have this addition. Took him 3 days to come out of hiding....getting fat on Danichii and frozen and freeze dried blackworm.


----------



## charles

Beautiful sunshine.


----------



## AWW

Charles said he got sunshines collected from two spots, is that the more expensive one?


----------



## charles

nope. the other collection point L14 sunshine were all DOA. The are black in base, bigger spots, and more intense orange on all the fins.


----------



## Chappy

Congrats on the spawns, Gary. That's pretty neat. Maybe someone can correct me, but I'm pretty sure the first eggs aren't cuip as they are way too light so heckel female, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but the eggs in the shots above look too light too; you may just have 2 female heckels  But I'm only basing that on the color of the eggs that my female cuip laid. They looked like salmon roe they were so red.


----------



## Chappy

And the sunshine is a pretty sweet scoop, too!!! Nice one


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Chappy said:


> Congrats on the spawns, Gary. That's pretty neat. Maybe someone can correct me, but I'm pretty sure the first eggs aren't cuip as they are way too light so heckel female, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but the eggs in the shots above look too light too; you may just have 2 female heckels  But I'm only basing that on the color of the eggs that my female cuip laid. They looked like salmon roe they were so red.


You guys are the experts, but according to April, the males have a kinda hump on the head, and one of my Cuips have one and one of the Heckels have one, but who knows, as I've never seen them spawn. I just hope they either raise some fry or stop doing this so my poor Maracana stop getting beat up.


----------



## charles

put more discus in there so they stop spawning  Perhaps that will help


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> put more discus in there so they stop spawning  Perhaps that will help


That's what someone else suggested too. But only if you sell discus that don't need water changes.  Or how would Canadian Aquatics like two spawning pairs for some L160's and L25's in trade?


----------



## Flygirl

Great looking fish. How big are they? 

Are you going to leave the spawning pairs in there or will you be moving them if it looks like the eggs will hatch?


----------



## charles

The L160 is awesome, eh.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Flygirl said:


> Great looking fish. How big are they?
> 
> Are you going to leave the spawning pairs in there or will you be moving them if it looks like the eggs will hatch?


The Heckel is about 7" and the Cuip is between 5 - 6". I have no choice but to leave them in there as I have 4 other tanks and the 2 bigger ones are at capacity and not suitable for discus, and the 20 and the ADA cube won't fit discus.  Just have to let nature take its course.



charles said:


> The L160 is awesome, eh.


Yup, I love it. Still can't get a pic of it though.


----------



## charles

I think you should put those 8" wild in there... at least one


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> I think you should put those 8" wild in there... at least one


That's what the 2 Maracana are.


----------



## charles

You think the maracana is big, these are bigger.


----------



## jay_leask

2wheelsx2 said:


> And of course, there are plecos in my tanks...and I just had to have this addition. Took him 3 days to come out of hiding....getting fat on Danichii and frozen and freeze dried blackworm.


very nice, any newer pics of your other plecos?


----------



## Chappy

Charles - you have discus that are 8+ plus????? Oh, you just KNOW I've got to see them  The Osaka is FINALLY empty - RIP two green wilds


----------



## Chappy

Gary - that last heckel that Charles has must be extremely lonely by now. You really should give it a good home


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> You think the maracana is big, these are bigger.


I was there remember? Unless you have 9" ones, they're not bigger since I got your biggest Maracana.  These 2 dwarf the Heckels.



Chappy said:


> Gary - that last heckel that Charles has must be extremely lonely by now. You really should give it a good home


It would still be lonely in my tank as both the Heckels are paired. However, I know your Heckels would like some company though.


----------



## Chappy

Watch him, Gary. If Charles is trying to sell you a 9"+ flat fish, it's probably a FLOUNDER!!!!!


----------



## jobber

well wishing for survival of those eggs 
Nice sunshine, pudgy top to bottom, stop spoiling your fish with delicacies.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> well wishing for survival of those eggs
> Nice sunshine, pudgy top to bottom, stop spoiling your fish with delicacies.


Thanks, Ming. Got both pairs guarding eggs right now....as the original pair laid on the first spot. 

The L14 is out all the time now, perhaps trying to get a chance to get at the eggs.


----------



## crazy72

Congrats on the 100th page, Gary.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> Congrats on the 100th page, Gary.


I guess I should get a life.


----------



## Chappy

Hey, Gary - if you reply to this post, it will be #1,000!!!!!! QUICK before Franck scoops it


----------



## jobber

Congratulations on the 1000th post on this thread


----------



## tony1928

is there actually anyone with more posts than Gary?


----------



## bunnyrabbit

I think you can randomly take 10 members and they wouldn't have more posts then Gary. LOL


----------



## Chappy

He, he, he.......Gary's been BUSTED :bigsmile:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Chappy said:


> He, he, he.......Gary's been BUSTED :bigsmile:


Yep. I looked at my photo albums last night and realized that I have been documenting and posting tank and fish pics since 2007! Just in 2011 alone I probably have 300+ fish pics. So that's it, no more pic posting!


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Yep. I looked at my photo albums last night and realized that I have been documenting and posting tank and fish pics since 2007! Just in 2011 alone I probably have 300+ fish pics. So that's it, no more pic posting!


Gary, you have NO IDEA how many hours I have spent (wasted? ) looking through those pics. You could publish a pleco photo album EASILY - hint, hint! You know, something for you to do in your SPARE time - remember what that was, spare time  Just saw some absolutely BEAUTIFUL plecos at Charles' place. Have you already been? If no - you should. If yes - you should go back and get *MORE *


----------



## bunnyrabbit

It is a complement to your dedication. Not a criticism. This board(I hope) and myself appreciate your efforts.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

bunnyrabbit said:


> It is a complement to your dedication. Not a criticism. This board(I hope) and myself appreciate your efforts.


Thanks Peter. And now my fish have paid me a huge compliment!

Ta da!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That's the Heckel playing the enforcer. I was wondering why there was so much fighting.


----------



## jobber

Woohoo! Congratulations Gary. I'm sure there's one happy poppa in the house ;D


----------



## mdwflyer

That is VERY cool! Nicely done!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Woohoo! Congratulations Gary. I'm sure there's one happy poppa in the house ;D


Yes, I'm pretty excited. Especially since I thought it was hair algae and I was going to try and scrape it off! 



mdwflyer said:


> That is VERY cool! Nicely done!


Thanks. I had nothing to do with it. That's the best combo of Canadian Aquatics and April's Aquarium right there!


----------



## Chappy

That's so awesome, Gary. I'm not so sure that's a heckel daddy though - I still think those eggs may have been laid by a girlie heckel because of the color of the eggs. Is the cuip hanging around at all? If you've got a female heckel that can produce viable eggs, you've got a very valuable fish on your hands


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yep, the Cuip is hanging around. I got so excited I forgot to check which pair it is. Be right back....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Cuip's the one with the "hump" on the head, which I presumed was the male, so I need some discus expert to come and check out if it's the Heckel that's the female.


----------



## bunnyrabbit

Just water changes eh. Congrats.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

bunnyrabbit said:


> Just water changes eh. Congrats.


This is like the breeding machine. L134s, Sterbai and discus are at it non-stop. And yes, 75% water changes 3 - 4 times a week. Lots and lots of frozen and freeze dried blackworm, along with Dainichi, NLS, Ken's soft and moist with krill, and Colorbits. But mostly the worms. They get that 2x a day.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Day 3 and it's difficult to count but I have more than 20 wriggler on the wood still. Did a big water change yesterday and a few got knocked off and the parents moved them up and down the wood a few times. So there is still hope. But now the other pair laid and all my other discus are getting beat up on.....


----------



## Diztrbd1

tony1928 said:


> is there actually anyone with more posts than Gary?


wether it's this thread or the forum as a whole....Gary has twice as many post then anyone.
The 2 closest to him, in total post, are me and Charles and we are only at about 3300 total post each lol 
got that from the members list and clicking on "post" 
Congrats Gary on the 1000th post on here and more so congrats on the breeding!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks everyone. I am happy to share my successes and failures with my friends on BCA, especially if it can help others. I just like taking photos and posting them and as long as people like looking at them, I'll keep doing so.


----------



## Diztrbd1

I think I speak for a big majority here when I say....we enjoy this thread and the pleco one, very much. I think they may be the 2 most viewed threads here actually. I'm glad you are a member here & share all the experiences & expertise you have with us. I know you have helped me and many others here. And the pix we will never get bored with. Keep up the great work!


----------



## jobber

Just keep the pictures and videos coming. Videos of wigglers!!!!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Not sure I can get video but I'll give it a shot. The discus freak and attack everything that comes to the tank, including the kids and I.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

jobber604 said:


> Just keep the pictures and videos coming. Videos of wigglers!!!!!


Ask and you shall receive....sorry for the cloud, but I just fed them so the parents were a bit distracted so I could get some video. The plecos and cories stir up a mess at feeding time.


----------



## jobber

Nice! Glad to see you monetarize the video 
Look at that protective poppa!


----------



## charles

the current in there might be too much for the little one.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> the current in there might be too much for the little one.


Yeah, it probably is, that's why I don't think they'll make it. Might pick up a 20 gallon and put the parents in there.


----------



## Tiwaz

Great tank, it took me 3 days to go through the whole thread. Good luck with the wrigglers.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Tiwaz said:


> Great tank, it took me 3 days to go through the whole thread. Good luck with the wrigglers.


Thanks. unfortunately, I had family over tonight for dinner and the 3 days running up to the tank must have spooked the parents, so the wrigglers were all gone by the end of dinner.


----------



## tony1928

Might have a spare tank that I could donate to this worthy project. 



2wheelsx2 said:


> Yeah, it probably is, that's why I don't think they'll make it. Might pick up a 20 gallon and put the parents in there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Might have a spare tank that I could donate to this worthy project.


You're like that bad kid on the block that says "Come on, just try it once, it's harmless!"


----------



## tony1928

What are friends for? LOL. We are well meaning enablers.



2wheelsx2 said:


> You're like that bad kid on the block that says "Come on, just try it once, it's harmless!"


----------



## charles

I will donate an air pump


----------



## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> I will donate an air pump


Might take you up on that Charles! 

Tony, I just measured the stand that I am using for my pleco growout/L10a tank and it's 18 deep, so if I put a piece of plywood on top I can turn the 20 gallon around and put another 20 on it which would allow me to put 2 of them side by side with only 6" more space and allow a 20 gallon discus spawning/rearing tank....hmmmm...


----------



## tony1928

Uhoh, here we go! It would be pretty cool if you end up being able to set up a couple of breeder tanks for the spawns. I think it would be neat just to see if you could produce a viable spawn and then grow them out.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Tony, I just measured the stand that I am using for my pleco growout/L10a tank and it's 18 deep, so if I put a piece of plywood on top I can turn the 20 gallon around and put another 20 on it which would allow me to put 2 of them side by side with only 6" more space and allow a 20 gallon discus spawning/rearing tank....hmmmm...


----------



## jobber

Do it Gary 
Simple setup with a sponge filter.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

3rd batch of wrigglers:


----------



## jobber

It's been 5 days since. I know you're back, so how the wigglers doing? turn into juvies yet?


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Apparently they became free swimming 2 days ago and were all gone yesterday. Probably way too much current in their for the fry to latch on. Already on another batch of eggs.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Well, they're at it again. I just got back late last week from a business trip and there was a batch of eggs, and now there's another batch...must be rutting season.


----------



## jobber

Time to set up a spawning and holding tank


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It's rutting season again. Caught them at it right after dinner time.


----------



## jobber

The discus are huge! 

Sent from my Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


----------



## charles

Wonder where he got them from


----------



## target

looking good


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Daniel. Did a huge water change today and had to "air" the eggs, so the Cuip female wasn't too happy.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

So as I've mentioned before, everything appears to be breeding in my tanks. Found 2 of these hiding in my broken down HK550. Anyone want to guess what it is? I decided to see if I can raise one separately to get better growth so I put it in a fry saver that a friend built for me.

















And then of course, the third day with the batch of eggs you saw in the vid.










Seems everyone has figured out the pecking order during the hatching process so it's a bit more peaceful.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Caught the dominant pair laying another clutch of eggs today.


----------



## jay_leask

on that documentary i downloaded they showed discus layign eggs and hatching, and how they eat the slime coat of the parents until they are bigger.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Yep, that's why I can't raise the wrigglers. Too much flow for the young to attach. I just don't have any space for another tank or I'd isolate these guys, as they've raised 4 or 5 clutches to wrigglers now.


----------



## jobber

I'll make a bold statement. Raise the wigglers Gary! Do it. I'm sure a bunch other members will concur with me. Drop the water flow a bit ;D
Love to see a school of mini discus....then ka-ching, ka-ching. Flip them for a profit, the BCA way


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Parents taking no chances this time. They've been moving the fry around every day to a different piece of wood. 3 day old fry:


----------



## Diztrbd1

awesome and congrats again Gary! best of luck!


----------



## jobber

Nice to see consistent and constant updates from this tank journal. One of the most, if not the most, up to date and picturesque journals on this forum. 
New tank, new tank, new tank....for discus breeding....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> awesome and congrats again Gary! best of luck!





jobber604 said:


> Nice to see consistent and constant updates from this tank journal. One of the most, if not the most, up to date and picturesque journals on this forum.
> New tank, new tank, new tank....for discus breeding....


Thanks guys. It's the nice positive feedback I get that keeps me posting. Feels like it's making a difference in the community.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Looks like the parents are getting it this time. Video of fry attaching to parents. Sorry for the red snow, as I just fed them tetrabits and saw the attachment happening and wanted to catch it in action.


----------



## Tiwaz

Very cool, good luck with the fry.


----------



## jobber

2wheelsx2 said:


> Parents taking no chances this time. They've been moving the fry around every day to a different piece of wood. 3 day old fry:


"i get the blue one, ok?" haha

Have you been able to raise the wrigglers up for a couple of weeks? You're quite a successful discus keeper, those guys are thick and big!


----------



## April

Very cool. Love watching parents carrying fry! 
The rummies may pick them off..keep a night light on. 
Although the parents may protect.
Which is mom and which is dad? All you need is 5 days and you could pull the fry and feed bbs in a very small tank. 
It'd be interesting to see the fry, what you'd get.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

None of them ever made it. Too much current and too many predators in the tank. They never last 1 day of attachment. I should really sell both pairs. I've observed them and it appears both males are Heckels and both Cuipeas are the females.


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## Luke78

Still going at it huh? Signs of balanced and settled aquarium Gary, glad to hear all is well! Now on with some new pics  please us regulars here with some new stuff! Teasing ya


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## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> Still going at it huh? Signs of balanced and settled aquarium Gary, glad to hear all is well! Now on with some new pics  please us regulars here with some new stuff! Teasing ya


Like rabbits!  Sure, now that the weather has turned, just as Ming pointed out, I'll have more time for fish stuff.


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## April

Those curiperas are very constant layers! I wish I had more time...I'd work on them. If you move them..they may take a long break. Whoever bought them may not have the same results. Obviously the heckles like your conditions.


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## 2wheelsx2

April said:


> Those curiperas are very constant layers! I wish I had more time...I'd work on them. If you move them..they may take a long break. Whoever bought them may not have the same results. Obviously the heckles like your conditions.


If you're ever interested, April, let me know and I can bring you the one pair that spawn constantly. I am just wishing for some peace in my tanks. There's just a ton of fighting going on all the time. Just the other day my son found a dried up Rummy Nose tetra 4 feet from the tank and the tank is almost entirely covered and is Eurobraced, so it must have hit that canopy hard and slipped down the side and then flapped its way all the way under one of my chairs.


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## April

My problem is weekends as I'm in Pomo and driving back and forth is not an option . I'd have to have a mobile unit to take with me on weekends for the fry. I'm working on it! Lol. I may ...I have a plug in my car..and a cooler rigged up with an air pump. On the body is easy. Once off..then the feeding starts.you only need 5 days and you can pull the fry.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks April. If I ever have a spawn where I'm in town continuous, I may put them in a breeding trap I have for baby plecos and see if I can raise a few.


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## Fish rookie

Always enjoy looking at your beautiful tank.


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## 2wheelsx2

Just a random picture of another batch of hatched wrigglers. This was last night and they were all gone this morning. Sorry for the lousy pic but this was zoomed in with my Galaxy S3 and there were still a billion bubbles from a wc a few hours earlier.


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## 2wheelsx2

The kids are at it again.


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## jobber

I'm wanting to chant "new tank, new tank, new tank" .....to raise those wigglers


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## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...I wish. I wish I wish I had a Starphire 150 to put these fish into leaving the pair alone in this cube.


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## jobber

Frogs and wrigglers. What do you think he'll think? haha.


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## 2wheelsx2

Can't stop these guys from spawning. New egg location due to the new Tunze 2045 changing the flow in the tank. Replaced the HK 550 and 750 with a single Tunze. No more backwards flow and broken shafts.


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## rickwaines

beautiful. ever had any make it?


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## discuspaul

Wow - that's real neat, Gary, I'm very impressed - really.
Those eggs look fertilized and ready to pop - or is it just the light producing that color in the eggs - are you into raising discus fry ? Or will the rest of the 'community' in that tank destroy that potentiality ?
One other thing - I'll sure have to look into Tunze - my HK is acting the same way as yours did, and I don't care for it !


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## 2wheelsx2

rickwaines said:


> beautiful. ever had any make it?





discuspaul said:


> Wow - that's real neat, Gary, I'm very impressed - really.
> Those eggs look fertilized and ready to pop - or is it just the light producing that color in the eggs - are you into raising discus fry ? Or will the rest of the 'community' in that tank destroy that potentiality ?
> One other thing - I'll sure have to look into Tunze - my HK is acting the same way as yours did, and I don't care for it !


Not a chance in that tank. This pair spawn every week basically. Been doing it almost continuously since I started posting the pics and vids, so probably over 20 spawns. Too much flow and too many other fish in the tank. The other pair is less dominant and not as prolific as it doesn't have the good pieces of wood to spawn on.
And yes, Paul, those are fertilized I think. They were just laid today, but I've come to recognize almost on the same day which are are and which ones aren't. Usually there is about a 75% fertilized rate but this batch looks greater than 90. I don't have the time or the tank to raise fry. If anyone was really keen on a Heckel x Cuip spawn and was willing to trade me for a pair of wilds I'd gladly go for in (doesn't have to be a pair, just 2 nice big wilds). But it doesn't seem like too many people want to do it.


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## rickwaines

mine just laid last night. the first time. I have had them a couple weeks. pretty exciting. premium fish food i suspect.


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## 2wheelsx2

I saw on your thread. Good food, good water, and being comfortable in the environment are key factors. Plus you gave them vertical/subvertical surfaces to lay on.


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## rickwaines

Thanks for your help in getting it all sorted. by premium fish food, I meant the eggs/wriggler will become it most likely.


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## 2wheelsx2

rickwaines said:


> Thanks for your help in getting it all sorted. by premium fish food, I meant the eggs/wriggler will become it most likely.


No problem at all. It's nice to be able to share information around. I can't remember what else you had in that tank beside Rams. I have 6 discus, 30+plecos (mostly juvies), 50+ tetras and Rams and Apistos in mine so the competition is fierce. Plus I have over 2000 GPH of flow in the tank (20x turnover) so the fry don't have a chance. If you have less fish and lower flow and if you kept a nightlight on so that the fry can find the parents, you'll have a chance.


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## crimper

Always love seeing those discus spawn. Nice tank by the way.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks, not quite as nice as yours but I didn't want to run CO2 in this one.


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## charles

i think you need a nice school of rummynose in there, or perhaps emperor tetra. say 100 of each will do


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## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> i think you need a nice school of rummynose in there, or perhaps emperor tetra. say 100 of each will do


Go big or go home. I will do 200 of each and 500 Cardinals and maybe even an Aro and a Dat. That should do it.


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## bonsai dave

Discus are looking great . Good Job. I love this set up. I would love to set up a cube tank one day. It's hard to find cube tanks over 200 gallons. That is awesome about them constantly breeding to bad your not able to raise some of the fry. Just wondering where you go the Tunze 2045 from ?


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## 2wheelsx2

bonsai dave said:


> Discus are looking great . Good Job. I love this set up. I would love to set up a cube tank one day. It's hard to find cube tanks over 200 gallons. That is awesome about them constantly breeding to bad your not able to raise some of the fry. Just wondering where you go the Tunze 2045 from ?


That's because they get heavy fast. You'd pretty much have to go custom. Mine is as heavy as my 125 almost. I'd imagine a glass 200 would be 300+ lbs. You'd pretty much have no choice but to go acrylic I think at that point. That might be in my future plans.

I got 2 2045's from J&L on Boxing Day. After seeing these in action, I'll never run an HK Evo again. The only HK's running in my house are the old shaft ones. The Evo's work fine if you never turn them off. But I have so much flow in my tanks I always turn them off to feed the feed (except blackworm since it doesn't matter). Then they frequently run backwards or not at all.


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## seanyuki

Hey Gary....those discus are doing good with yr TLC.....nice eggs too....perhaps try artificial hatching and have some fun raising them .


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## 2wheelsx2

seanyuki said:


> Hey Gary....those discus are doing good with yr TLC.....nice eggs too....perhaps try artificial hatching and have some fun raising them .


I'd like to if I had the time and space. I didn't even start with juvie discus because of the time constraints I have. If anyone is interested in raising some of these eggs, I'd gladly let you take the wood home and try it as long as you bring the wood back.


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## 2wheelsx2

For all the nut lovers out there, here are some pics from the tank. Notice anything different? Thanks again Tony!


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## Diztrbd1

Those are some great pix Gary! Especially the first couple.


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## mdwflyer

Beautiful, happy Discus is even better indicator of healthy tank than happy clown loaches. That is soooo clean!


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## 77_Bus_Girl

I think this may be my favourite tank on the site...


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## bonsai dave

Congrats on the new editions to the tank. They are beautiful discus. The tank looks great.


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## tony1928

I'm glad the order worked out great. Just got home. Very impressed with the discus we got. I now have 9 reds and 7 heckels in the tank. The reds are so huge they now dominate the tank.


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## Bien Lim

Those r beautiful


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## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> Those are some great pix Gary! Especially the first couple.


Thanks John. I was in too much of a hurry as it's been a hectic day starting before 6 because of the discus pickup. The first 2 were easier since I had greater depth of field. For the last 2 I was impatient and didn't wait for the discus to move to where I could shoot and instead backed up so the focus was off.



mdwflyer said:


> Beautiful, happy Discus is even better indicator of healthy tank than happy clown loaches. That is soooo clean!


Not as clean as I'd like. The plecos really throw up a lot of debris, but I took the shot an hour after a light feeding and before I fed blackworm which tends to make a mess. No UV on this tank either. Just Purigen and 3x80% wc a week.



77_Bus_Girl said:


> I think this may be my favourite tank on the site...





bonsai dave said:


> Congrats on the new editions to the tank. They are beautiful discus. The tank looks great.





Bien Lim said:


> Those r beautiful


Thanks for all the compliments everyone. I think this tank has finally found its balance. No more additions.



tony1928 said:


> I'm glad the order worked out great. Just got home. Very impressed with the discus we got. I now have 9 reds and 7 heckels in the tank. The reds are so huge they now dominate the tank.


Can't wait to see pics of yours.


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## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> Thanks John. I was in too much of a hurry as it's been a hectic day starting before 6 because of the discus pickup. The first 2 were easier since I had greater depth of field. For the last 2 I was impatient and didn't wait for the discus to move to where I could shoot and instead backed up so the focus was off.


Yeah I agree, you'll have to do better next time, Gary. 

The new guys are beautiful and the tank looks just amazing.


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## target

The new wilds look great. Nice buy


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## jobber

These guys look settled in so well, I can't tell what's new or the resident Discus. Very beautiful addition.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks guys. The stress bars have mostly disappeared on the Vermelho reds. I am extremely pleased with these guys. I'm glad I waited and waited to add fish to this tank until I got what I wanted, since I don't have unlimited tank space like Tony has in his 400.


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## 2wheelsx2

Since I was uploading videos, I thought it would be good to see the new discus live. They're eating Dan's Freeze Dried Blackworm with Pro More with Mysis and Plankton. They seem to really love it. Once again, thanks to Tony who gave me the sample.


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## bunnyrabbit

Nice pick up. They really look nice in that tank.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Peter. It was a great buying experience and I'm really enjoying these guys.


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## tony1928

Gary that Heckel is monstrous. If you consider the Vermehlo reds are about 6", the Heckel is noticeably bigger still! 

400g isn't unlimited but it does tend to let you get away with a few things here and there. 😋


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## 2wheelsx2

Yes, the Heckels are still my favourite fish in the tank. About 7". Everyone almost remarks on how big and how bright blue they are.


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## mdwflyer

Everything is so well balanced. The fish are all beautiful and healthy, all the different plants look perfect. That is sure a nice setup.


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Mark. Unfortunately, it's not as great as it looks. You rarely see the photos of a stunted Tefe in there. That thing would only eat live or frozen blackworm. I've had that guy for almost 2 years. Ultimately, I think the addition of these new more dominant fish was its demise as I found it darkened and not swimming and breathing shallowly in a corner last night and decided to put it out of its misery as I've seen it go downhill over the last week. I just wanted to disclose that in the interest of showing how quickly things can turn with discus and that it's not all wine and roses.  

But ultimately, that guy wasn't going to last anyway. It was just sad that the last Tefe I had (I started with all Tefes) is gone now and none of the original fish, except maybe an L333 and some of the tetras, are in the tank that I started the tank with.


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## mdwflyer

That's a pretty darn good rebound to say the least, and you are still keeping discus. Like most things you never stop learning about fish keeping. 

I'm just into the first part of a 3 month course for work, it has me out of town a significant amount of time so I'm hoping things stay boring in the fish tanks...


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## 2wheelsx2

No news and boring is good, when it come to the tanks.


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## 2wheelsx2

Just couldn't resist taking a few snaps since I had the camera out.


























Just finished feeding some fdbw, so the water is a bit cloudy because of all the digging the catfish do after feedings.


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## jobber

This is exactly the reason why I'm so tempted to spoil myself.


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## Diztrbd1

2wheelsx2 said:


> Just couldn't resist taking a few snaps since I had the camera out. And needed some more views and a bigger post count :bigsmile:
> .


nice shots....you should start a website for wallpapers and screensavers with all the cool fish and pix you have lol maybe make enough to get a new pleco lol


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## 2wheelsx2

Diztrbd1 said:


> nice shots....you should start a website for wallpapers and screensavers with all the cool fish and pix you have lol maybe make enough to get a new pleco lol


Hmmm...not a bad idea John. I'll have to think about that.

Decided to shoot a pic update of all the tanks for the setup thread and thought I would give an update to the pleco situation in this tank. This week, I fish out quite a few Hypan fry. Today I dumped a cave with fry out and got this (pic from my phone):










I put them in the frysaver in my 20 gallon along with the calico BNP's along with fry I've been fishing out all week. Hypans anyone?


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## Foxtail

Nice work... where's the PIC of the parents?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## 2wheelsx2

Can't get pics of the parents as they're always in the caves or under rocks. The Hypans are a lot more secretive than the Peckoltia.


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## jobber

nicely done Gary. You do feed and spoil them too well 

And in a month or so's time, they'll look amazingly like this little guy


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks Ming. Some of them certainly have that colouration while others have more yellowish stripes.


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## trout

great pics tank looks amazing!

congrats on the spawn too!


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## crazy72

Congrats, Gary. They're beautiful. You're going to need new tanks to raise all these little guys...


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## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> great pics tank looks amazing!
> 
> congrats on the spawn too!


Thanks. The tank is pretty low maintenance now too.



crazy72 said:


> Congrats, Gary. They're beautiful. You're going to need new tanks to raise all these little guys...


Nope. They'll grow up in the 20 gallon with the bnp's.


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## 2wheelsx2

Well I guess things have settled down as one of my Heckel/Cuipera X pairs have spawned again -- on the glass:


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## crimper

Congrats on the frys... and good luck on those Heckel/Cuipera X spawn. Those are good looking wilds!


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks. Probably don't have much chance on the spawn until such time I give them their own tank, but it's just good to see things are back to normal.


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## 2wheelsx2

Took a short vid of the fish. The Vermelho reds are nice and chubby now.


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## jobber

Has it been that long since the past update. Its too bad we don't frequent bca as often but rather lurk around and go. 

Nice healthy wilds. Those heckels are eye catchers. Love to have a school of those...I mean a larger school of those.

Sent from my mobile phone


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## josephl

Those reds and heckels are outstanding fish. I'm with Ming, let's get more heckels in :bigsmile:


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## 2wheelsx2

josephl said:


> Those reds and heckels are outstanding fish. I'm with Ming, let's get more heckels in :bigsmile:


I can't argue with that!


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## 2wheelsx2

Well Josephl's prediction came true. Added more heckels, as well as 3 greens. 

Here are some lousy pics. Unfortunately it's tough to get good pics with the kids in the house for the holidays as I can't turn the lights off and the fish shy away and move too fish away from the camera.


































Those greens are THICK!


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## tony1928

Those greens pigged out in Australian Fdbw for months. Got my floors wet more than once hitting the water hard. 

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## Goldfish

Wow, those are beautiful fish! I'm jealous haha


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## jobber

Spoiled fish that eat too much good food. Beasts!


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## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, now they are getting frozen blackworm to try to keep them nice and fat. Also raised the temps slightly. Got the cories spawning.


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## tony1928

Yeah frozen worms are just too stinky for me. Plus I found they made the water a bit filmy. But definitely stinky lol

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## Fish rookie

Those green are nice and thick. Awesome.
Your tank is very well kept and scaped. Really enjoy looking at it.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yep, have to skim the surface often when feeding blackworm, frozen or live.


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> Yep, have to skim the surface often when feeding blackworm, frozen or live.


New Eheim surface skimmer?

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> New Eheim surface skimmer?


There you go spending my money again Tony!  Lucky I got that new ac router today or I would have been out at J&L getting that skimmer!


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> There you go spending my money again Tony!  Lucky I got that new ac router today or I would have been out at J&L getting that skimmer!


Haha. Hey hey you made me buy that darn router too!

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## 2wheelsx2

Everyone seems so happy after I got the Eheim skim 350 to take care of the surface scum that I decided to take a video.


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## rwong2k10

oh nice video of your wild discus!

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


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## 2wheelsx2

Thanks. Oops. Just noticed that I've been posting up low res videos. Will take an HD video later when I feed them frozen blackworm.


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## 2wheelsx2

New HD video:


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## mrbob

Holy crap that is beautiful some really nice discus there and tank.


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## jobber

In the spirit of updating journals. nice HD video. Colours popping.


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## 2wheelsx2

Wow, I didn't realize it's been 2 years. This tank has been through a lot and has changed quite a bit. The only thing the same are the plecos and the 2 Cuipera X. Just added some Brilliant Turquoise and a Blue Scorpion from Rick and CAF. Couldn't be happier.


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