# Making your own Ferts (New to planted tanks and need some answers)



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

Alright so this is my first planted tank (and first post) experience and have a hoard of anubias and java fern right now, looking to add java moss, some hygrophilia (wisteria), corkscrew val, and Amazon Swords to my newly installed 180, and I have to questions regarding making your own fertilizer.

Alright to start I'm pretty damn sure this baby is cycled (been about 3 months, had the planaria worm and algae explosions, and some snails hitched a ride of some plants and have been smashing algae through the walls of my tank for about 1 1/2 months).

I have 4 x 55watt fluorescent tubes mounted in a homemade reflector hood.

Running with straight sand substrate (don't bother naysayers, I've done my research, have had plenty of time).

Planning to put swords in the center, corkscrew val to the left to hide all the gutworks for the tank, java moss over the homemade concrete Chichen Itza (with a bunch of holes for breeders), and wisteria to the right.

So here is my big question, I have these animals named Alpacas that wander around my yard and shit some of the best fertilizer available for terrestrial plants, can I whip up a tea mixture of this stuff and add it to the water table if I was to boil it and destroy any of the micro-organisms that are living inside it to use as a fertilizer in my tank (I know you all think it must stink, but this stuff literally has no smell I use it on all my houseplants)?

Chime in and give me your two cents, thank you.

The Dollar


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

Pics will be following as soon as I blow apart this final rock and hopefully get some Lion King looking cliff going on in there.


----------



## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

I wouldn't put it in if you plan to keep fish.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

Why not? It is biological, I would consider it more natural than putting in a chemical fertilizer. And I have added it into the tank with snails and they are still here. Do you have any fact or knowledge to cement your opinion? More curious about this than anything.

Come on peeps I need everyones two cents, bring on the facts.


----------



## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

You change water to get rid of biological substances. Adding manure would send nitrates soaring, poisoning your tank. You might want to google aquarium nitrate cycle if you haven't read up on it.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

I have but is there not an NPK label at the bottom of your "nutrient bottle", including the exact same compounds that compose the basis of manure (that's why it works), all I would have to do is boil some manure, take a ppm reader to it and divide that down from the size of the container to find a safe percentage of the total to add to the fish tank. Boiling the manure would destroy any biological substances located inside and taking that "tea" would give me the exact same product that you have in the bottle, just a different ratio (NPK) depending on the type of manure. 

Correct?


----------



## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Works a little different with organic fertilizer. Soil have a lot more biological activities for the manure to breakdown into consumable nutrients for the plants. 

I do add some kelp meal tea in addition to plant prod micro nutrients to my tank. But for the NPK, they are all inorganic fertilizer mixed from different bulk fertilizer for better control of ratio.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

The beneficial bacteria would build in the tank on the all the surfaces if exposure was consistent and minimal to begin with (that's what it does). And I am not going to be throwing a handful of unboiled fertilizer into the tank ( it would be boiled in order to destroy the bacteria living in it in order to acquire the tea which would contain the nutrients major and micro, that's what would be added), Can you explain to me why this would be any different then buying an overpriced bottle of nutrients? And the control ratio would be measured through a ppm reading + equation to break down the NPK into its percentages which would give you an "EXACT" ratio. Correct?


----------



## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

It isn't about the bacteria. Putting manure into a fish tank is a bad idea. If you really must try it, do a test on a small tank with some expendable fish. Killing off a big tank full of fish will cost more than your overpriced bottle of nutrients.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

We will see when I add some shrimp, as they seem to be more susceptible to any issues related to the topic than fish, I still would like to see some proof to dispute my claim, I have researched this many times over to ensure it is do-able and as it stands the snails seem unaffected and plants are doing remarkably well. On the other hand you have not stated anything other then "it's a bad idea" and come to the table with no proof other then a lack of willingness to try something out of the box. Do you happen to sell synthetic nutrients or work for an affiliate program? I will be happy to show my successes to the group in step by step updates to prove you don't need to use "chemicals" to balance an ecosystem.

If anyone else wants to put their two cents in I would love to hear from anyone who brings some real facts to the table whether it disputes me or not. 

Cheers

The Dollar


----------



## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

From my experience with Synthetic and organic hydroponic fertilizer (the over priced stuff) electrical conductivity (ppm) does not get tested the same way. I am not sure why the organic stuff showed a very low eC but was causing fertilizer burn and killing off plants. 

I am more curious in how do you determine the ratio of N P K, Ca, Mg, SO4, trace, etc with an equation when manure composition changes over the season without lab equipment. 

I do not use the over priced bottled stuff. I mixed them from about 8 different bulk fertilizer to create a low sulfate formula because I have plants that are prone to dying from high sulfate ratio

The idea to use tea has been done before - this is how an aquaponic system work - I do use kelp meal tea as well; however, I am not sure about the ratio and ppm testing and the speed of manure breaking down from organic to inorganic form in the aquarium. Pretty sure aquaponic farm has equipment specfically to breakdown fish waste into fertilizer for plants. 

Synthetic is pretty instantaneous in the inorganic form for plants to use. Using organic fertilizer sound like this will be an el-natural with minimal water change.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

https://thenutrientcompany.com/blogs/horticulture/npk-value-of-everything-organic-database Here is a link to the manure values.

I only use the fresh stuff (Alpaca), punching in those values the readings I come back with would be a little bit high due to not accounting for micro nutes. Alpaca is a fertilizer that does not need time to decompose to be used ( it is not hot, along with being ph balanced ) so I'm wondering if it would be suitable to in turn create an unlimited supply of my own ferts.

I have used synthetic/chemical nutrients before and I have burned my plants, I have made some pretty gnarly thick tea with alpaca manure aswell and did not have the same results(burning).

When I look at the concept boiling away all those excess biological critters inside the alpaca crap would leave me with my base nutrient compound ( I would not through it in unboiled as I understand that there are bacteria's and fungis in the tank doing what they do and adding that would throw it out of balance ).

I mean fish live and prosper in areas where there are buildups of waste(their own as well as lets say a large terrestrial animal taking a big dump in the middle of a river or lake), so there has to be some biological factor that increases to battle these extra variables to create a stable environment.

I'm building my tank from the ground up where I will be introducing shrimp/blackworms/and some rooting plants next to the environment, I already have an abundance of java fern/anubias/snails/planaria/algae growth inside of my tank along with all them bacterias/fungis and things we can't see.

I have been adding this alpaca "tea" from the point of putting plants in (over 2 months) and it seems to be working wonders for them.

On the aquaponics systems, they are just closed loop systems, water is pumped from tank to plants then from plants to tank plants filter the water and fish muck it up again

I would think using synthetic/chemical fertilizers that you would have a greater chance of overdosing/burning fish and plants due to it not having to be broken down as much (with the tea there are always those little particles of shit that will fall down to the sand(in my case) and get stuck on the filter etc, which the bacterias and critters(shrimp/snails) then break down further in turn giving them another thing to eat and process (variety I mean who wants to just eat salad all day every day )

And in the case of dirted tanks I think using a fertilizer like this would be greatly beneficial for the substrate and eliminate the need to ever have to remove the soil due to a nutrient lockout or lack of mineralizing bacteriums, as with chemical/synthetic nutrients are bound through salts and do eventually cause those effects to the plants and substrates.

I'm not saying I'm completely right, or my way is a viable option for everyone depending on their situation (I guess you could tie an alpaca up in your backyard if you really wanted to), but I believe in mine this is a viable option and I don't think I am going to create a harmful environment in doing so.

Little more information on my setup, I run on well water, I have a diy drip system set up for my tank where the lines(2) coming in go to the tank before going through the water softener on my plumbing system, 1 line goes through an RO unit, the other straight to the tank, set up on drippers with overflow shutoffs. And a diy overflow that I plumbed into my main drain pipe and out to the lagoon. I plan on keeping softer water fish in this tank (hence the RO)

I guess I will find out when I get some shrimp if my technique is working or not as they are more susceptible to water parameter shifts/problems(correct?).


----------



## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

Do you have a water test kit? If not, I would suggest getting one and testing the fertilized water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

All my levels are good, my nitrates are even low, sitting inbetween 5 and 0 ppm, just tested it everything is ( 7PH, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0-5ppm Nitrate)


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

I guess I should adjust my drip system output, would like my ph a little lower then 7, 6.6 - 6.8 would be ideal.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

Here is what I plan to stock
Snails(pest),shrimp(cherry),blackworms
Otto's (7), Serpae's (13)
Bolivian Rams(3m3f(hopefully)), Apistogramma (4cocs 1m3f, 4tri's 1m3f)
1 albino rainbow shark
and possibly a dwarf puffer if the current list is happy and the shrimp/worms/snails are all surviving and reproducing well


----------



## Hammy (Jul 30, 2018)

Bake it and make some root tabs out of it like Osmocote


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

That's actually an interesting idea I never thought of, they are little pellets like rabbit/deer turds and would probably work quit well for that. Thanks Hammy, that will be something I will try.


----------



## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

your pH seem a bit high for pure? RO water. breaking down organic should lower pH


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

It's half pure RO half pure well water, I have a lot of minerals in my water.


----------



## kivyee (Oct 15, 2016)

I think the main issue with manure is the C:N ratio of 4 or so. NPK might look good but it's the carbon/organic compounds that will cause an ammonia spike in your tank so depending on how much of the organics end up being dissolved in your tea, this would be the issue. By all means try it - you don't need a tank with organisms to test - put your sh**ty tea (sorry couldn't help it) in an established tank and see if you get ammonia spikes...


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

Made up a thicker batch of butt juice  last night, added a cup last night and this morning, just tested water again, with results of 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and in-between 0 and 5 ppm nitrate. I think I might be on to something, definitely going to be trying that pellet idea Hammy brought up about the root tabs to see if they are effective as well, just made an order for a handful of rooting plants


----------



## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

I use a bit of ammonium in my fertilizer for planted tanks but I keep the pH below 6.5.

I think when people talk about ammonia in the general aquarium setup, this is referring to pH 7+
In black water set up where pH <5.5, ammonium is the main source of Nitrogen.

Ammonium and ammonia can change back and forth depending on the pH of the water.

https://tanninaquatics.com/blogs/the-tint-1/blackwater-on-the-down-low-lessons-to-learn-and-repeat

Have you done a test of the crap in a bucket to see what sort of nitrogen it gives off?

I test the pH and microsiemens of my fertilizer mix before adding to the tank to see what sort of changes the tank causes. This helps me figure out if I have something buffering the water and affecting the pH or how fast the plants are using the fertilizer. I expect my pH to go up if I am using pure nitrate and pH to go down and or stabilize if there is more ammonium in the formula - excluding the effect of CO2 addition.

I do not test the ppm level of each element after mixing the batch because I use dry bulk fertilizer and did the calculation by the gram to figure out how much N P K I am adding. Then I add the fertilizer to keep the microsiemens (ppm) to a certain range. roughly 150 microsiemens (50 from Greater Vancouver tap water + 100 from fertilizer) for inhabited tanks . 500 for no fish tanks.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

No I have yet to test my bucket and break down the equation, My ph is going to fluctuate along with my gh in the next month as I'm now waiting for a concrete cliff to cure ( I broke the rock I was wanting to use at the wrong angle  boourns). So I'm going to be waiting to add fish now (oto's will be first). 

Neat tip of the day, did you know the you can throw garden worms into your tank and they will survive :O aslong as there is some form of oxygen exchange through the water because they breathe through their skin. I learned that today. 

Edge or anyone happen to know if I could toss some pond stream shrimp in my tank (it's underground spring fed), went out for a walk around the yard today and I have shrimploads of the little buggers in my stream. Quite curious as I'm a cheap SOB and don't want to fork out a buck a shrimp lol.

That was a fantastic read, funny how he talks about the deep sand bed idea (roundabout), I just loaded a bunch more sand into my tank and built the sides up about another 1 1/2 inches as I want there to be plenty of room for worms and substantial root growth (I'm going to get an echinodorous bhleri for the center of my tank among others lol)

Dollar out


----------



## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Not much feedback on stream shrimp. Is there a reason to add stream shrimp to the tank beside just adding something to the tank? Most shrimps are not good at consuming algae. Amano will go after bba, but can't compared to the effectiveness of Crossocheilus reticulatus. 1 is plenty for a 75gallon. 3 became overkill - now they eat the leaves off the stem plants, moss and anything they can fit into their mouth.


----------



## SilverDollar (May 28, 2019)

Was just looking to have a consistent food source as the tank with have a few shrimpy predators in it, I put some in a container with some tank water and an airstone, they aren't doing to well so I think the stream shrimp are out.


----------

