# Something sounds fishy at the car dealer



## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

My wife is getting the oil changed at the car dealership where we got our 2010 Dodge Caravan. They talked her into having the "peace of mind check" done ($45 + tax). They told her the disc brakes were down to 5% and needed to be replaced cost $280 + tax. They also told her that the fuel injectors needed to be cleaned at a cost of $150 + tax. The very same dealer cleaned them in January of this year.

We purchased the van a year ago with 7000 kms, and put roughly 3000 kms per month. It currently has 40,000 kms on it.

Does this sound right to anyone here? I can't see the brakes getting warn down that fast, and injectors getting dirty in less than 5 months?

Steve


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## Kei (May 4, 2010)

check breakes your self. just pop ur head in the wheel and have a look. if u have disk brakes this can be done in 2 seconds.

fuel injectors dirty that fast.. maybe.. BUT you can just buy fuel injector cleaner... at a cost of 10-15 dollars... and clean it your self. ive been driving my car and never once have i brought it to any dealers. if u must. go to another shop for a second opinion.


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## davefrombc (Apr 21, 2010)

Injectors ... BS ...... brakes ..... maybe, but better get them checked somewhere else.. Sounds fishy to me .... "Peace of Mind Check" Rip off in my opinion.. I'd be looking at different service centres. That dealership's dealings with your wife send up big warning signs to me .


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

If they cleaned the injectors in January and they are already dirty then they should have to do them again for free because they didn't do them properly.

Disc brakes could be anything. Automatic, heavy vehicles wear pads faster and some drivers drag their brakes mercilessly causing them to overheat so it's best to have to inspected by someone else who you trust.


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## bettagirl (Apr 21, 2010)

Update: they said that it looked like the fuel injection wasn't finished cleaning at which point I told the service guy that they did in January with the oil change then....result they finished the job free of charge. The brakes are getting done tomorrow at a mechanic my dad has dealt with for over 15 years. Which is what I (the wife) was worried about.


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## bettagirl (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> If they cleaned the injectors in January and they are already dirty then they should have to do them again for free because they didn't do them properly.
> 
> Disc brakes could be anything. Automatic, heavy vehicles wear pads faster and some drivers drag their brakes mercilessly causing them to overheat so it's best to have to inspected by someone else who you trust.


The thing I thought was weird is it is only the back brakes. They said the back brakes are at 5% and the front are at 30%


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

bettagirl said:


> The thing I thought was weird is it is only the back brakes. They said the back brakes are at 5% and the front are at 30%


That makes perfect sense. Get your hand brake checked. The cable is either sticking or one of your calipers are seized.


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## Kei (May 4, 2010)

i used to work at a shop...
"they said that it looked like the fuel injection wasn't finished cleaning at which point I told the service guy that they did in January with the oil change then....result they finished the job free of charge"

fuel additives should of done the job the first time....
finished the job free of charge... i dont know.. sounds like they didnt do any thing more to me...

they could of forgotten to do the injectors. and when u said they did it in january they probably just told u it wasnt finished cleaning.


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## Nicklfire (Apr 21, 2010)

funny brings me back.

I was a service advisor for 3 years at a chrysler dealership so i know exactly what your talking about.

in regards to brakes if they told you they were down to 5.. then likely you are very close to that.. caravans are odd.. some i see go at 20k, some at 40, my dads... 130k and they are still good. Really depends how hard you are on them. pricing seems dead on.. the odd time they might find that your rotors (what the pads grind against unless you have drum brakes) get warped.. they can simply machine them.. to make them smooth again.. worst case they get replaced... but i dont see either of those being problems. Usually you can tell rotors are warped.. you can feel it when you brake.. it's like a shuddering/vibration when you brake.. get worse overtime and if you delay it.. it chews your pads up and you gotta replace those again

fuel injection is a 3 part process where it's basically all additives they add.. worth it in my opinion... but if you had it done recently ago they should be able to look that up on their system and tell you if that's the same process they are talking about. 

peace of mind inspections are good and cheap to get...

At any point you can always request a history of your service at the dealership (the one you got it done at)


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## bettagirl (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> That makes perfect sense. Get your hand brake checked. The cable is either sticking or one of your calipers are seized.


I will get that checked tomorrow thanks 2wheelsx2


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## Nicklfire (Apr 21, 2010)

bettagirl said:


> The thing I thought was weird is it is only the back brakes. They said the back brakes are at 5% and the front are at 30%


Also different braking systems between your front and rear brakes which would account for different wear.

Front has disc brakes, rear has drum.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Nicklfire said:


> Also different braking systems between your front and rear brakes which would account for different wear.
> 
> Front has disc brakes, rear has drum.


The fancier models have 4 wheel discs. Vented front and solid rears.


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## LikeItLow (Jan 11, 2011)

the injector cleaning seems like a money grab to me.

brakes on the other hand, well first you bought a dodge and second you bought a caravan lol. i work in a shop, ive seen caravans with 25,000k need front brakes. the same van at 50,000k needs fronts and rear brakes done. we've had dodge calibers with less than 15,000k need front brakes. 

so 2 things: people are hard on their brakes or dodge cheaped out heavily on the brake systems the last few years. judging by the way i see most people drive its a combination of both. but you being at 40,000k and needing only fronts your doing pretty good!


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## Clownloachlover (Apr 21, 2010)

There are three processes to cleaning injectors...Mechanical, Chemical and on going.

First off the mechanical cleaning process is where the mechanic will attach some sort of pressurized device (either a pressurized can of fluid or a rechargable can, like a paintball canister) that contains some sort of cleaning fluid. He then disconnects the fuel system of the car, connects the canister of cleaning fluid and then starts the car and it runs off of the cleaning fluid. This fluid will run through the fuel rails and into the injector ports or through the injector ports directly depending on the type of injection system....this usually takes about 15-30 minutes to accomplish. You can tell when a fuel injector is clean as it makes a real metallic ticking sound, you can listen to them through a mechanics stethescope and hear the click before and after and there is usually a very noticable difference. This is the mechanical process of cleaning injectors and I have seen it priced from 39.99 to over 200.00 at european import dealers.

The chemical process is as simple as buying a bottle of concentrated cleaning chemical and pouring it into your gas tank. This can be done every 10 or so tank fulls and it will help keep the injectors clean over time.

And lastly the on going process is to use good grade gasoline with techroline. No I am not a chevron employee, however I have done enough work on injectors to see what poor gasoline grades do to fuel systems. Shell brand gasoline, especially the bronze stuff is brutal on fuel systems, same with some of the cheap retailers...including Costco!

Lastly to help keep your injectors clean over time...replace your fuel filter regularily...a lot of people feel that because it is out of sight it never needs to be replaced...nothing could be further from the truth!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

You would know it if your injectors were clogged. period. Even if one injector wasn't firing the van would run like crap as soon as you came off of idle. Modern fuel injected engines can vary pulse width and ignition timing to make up for a single cylinder not firing at idle, but when you put a load on it you can feel the loss of power and it would run quite rough. If you didn't bring it to the dealership because of a running issue, then your injectors are fine. 

I would not advise you to use those "injector cleaner" products. If your injectors do indeed need service, get them done by a professional. That injector cleaning stuff is horrible for fuel pumps. 

That van is quite heavy and i could see the forward break pads getting worn in at 40k. Like Nickfire said, it depends on how you drive. 

Your best bet is to take it to another service department (don't mention these issues) and see what they tell you. If you get two different shops telling you that you need these items serviced then it's the truth. 


Best of luck!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Nicklfire said:


> Also different braking systems between your front and rear brakes which would account for different wear.
> 
> Front has disc brakes, rear has drum.


but all the pressure is on the front brakes... they will always wear faster than the rear. We do not know the last time any of these were serviced though. The fronts could have been done recently.


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

80% of mechanics are scam artists....

ive only ever brought a vehicle to a mechanic once, because i didnt have time to do my own exhaust upgrades, i left it at the shop for a few days because i was out of town and came back to a 2200$ bill for my exhaust (labor costs only, i supplied parts), spark plugs, tranny flush, oil change, and new brakes


i payed the bill for my exhaust and lets just say i got alot of free work done to to my truck after leaving them with the number for my lawyer


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

spit.fire said:


> 80% of mechanics are scam artists....
> 
> ive only ever brought a vehicle to a mechanic once, because i didnt have time to do my own exhaust upgrades, i left it at the shop for a few days because i was out of town and came back to a 2200$ bill for my exhaust (labor costs only, i supplied parts), spark plugs, tranny flush, oil change, and new brakes
> 
> i payed the bill for my exhaust and lets just say i got alot of free work done to to my truck after leaving them with the number for my lawyer


That's not a fair assessment. I am a service technician at a boat dealership in Richmond and I can tell you that the vast majority of our business is from repeat customers. You don't get repeat customers by lying to them. I am confident that the majority of shops out there whether it's boats or cars or bikes work the same way. I'm sorry that you got a tough bill from your shop but i can assure you that is far from "80%" of the mechanics out there.


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## bettagirl (Apr 21, 2010)

Before this van we owned a Kia and they did every thing under warranty. This dealer nothing gets done under warranty not even the checks. I am not buying from these cheapsakes again I can tell you that.
It is the rear bakes that need replacing. Which is fine and I am going to ask another dealer for dodge about the warranty and what it includes. I think the free oil changes for life are just a way to lure you need so they can scaple you for the rest of the services. 
At this other mechanic I am going to today quoted me a price $100 less than the dealers price. We will see about what happens today.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

bettagirl said:


> I think the free oil changes for life are just a way to lure you need so they can scaple you for the rest of the services.


You got that right the first time. Oil changes are loss leaders. Nobody makes money at it anymore since at $30 it's essentially the price of the oil and filter +$10. At any oil change place, all they do is upsell you. Free oil changes are just a loss leader.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I got a free oil change voucher from my friend who bought it for his dad but his dad refused to go to a GM mechanic. While I had my 4Runner up on his hoist, he peeks underneath and tells me he can't let me leave without getting my brakes done IMMEDIATELY. He tells me the brakes are soooo worn I'll probably crash on the way home. The doofus ripoff artist didn't know that I did all my own repairs and my mechanic friend had already inspected my brakes a week earlier and told me I had at least another 6 months of pads left.

I told the guy to lower my SUV back down & I drove off & never went back. 

There are a lot of ripoff places like these & they prey on people they think know nothing about cars. They especially try to rip off women. I used to have to help my female neighbour because if she went alone, they always ripped her off. They used to rip off my sis-in-law every time she went in for an oil change. Always some new thing (ie. charging $150 for a engine flush).

Be very aware of this type of behaviour.


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## bettagirl (Apr 21, 2010)

That is okay I never agree to anything without my hubby okay because of this.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

My bro-in-law is a ICBC certified mechanic so I don't have to worry about this sort of [email protected] Anybody on BCA who wants his number can shoot me a PM. I can vouch for his honesty.


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## Trouble (Apr 27, 2010)

*I have a machanic in Richmond that is an old friend of my dad's. His shop is behind Volco on Bridgeport. Just a small shop but he has never been one to tell you things you don't need. I have also been to both budgets in Surrey and they have always been pretty honest. I have a 2000 Dodge Caravan. I hate it when they see a female and think oh ya it's time to doop them. *


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

As we speak, the van is being inspected by an independent mechanic that Bettagirl's father trusts and has been dealing with for over 10 years. It isn't easy to gain his trust, but once earned you have a loyal customer.


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## bettagirl (Apr 21, 2010)

well the trusted mechanic looked the van over and the rear brakes had 20% left to them and the front brakes have about 40 to 30%. he checked all the fluid levels and told me that they are all fine. he said when we next go in for an oil change have them check the brakes and I said I was just going to bring the van back to him instead. he did not charge me at all for the check either. I am definitely going to be taking the van back to him for the check ups (I will still use the dealer for the oil changes see as I paid them 500 plus interest for oil changes for life). no point on going to someone who is going to scaple when you can go to someone you trust.
at least that is the way I see it


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Good for you. Sounds like what I went through with the Goodwrench mechanic years ago.


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## Fish Whisper (Apr 22, 2010)

Wow big difference between 5 and 40 %.
I would never go back to shop that lied, Unless to get the lifetime oil changes.

I too bought a Caravan. 2007 model, besides the subpar transmission the brakes was an issue with a lot of caravan owners 2008+ ( I did some research before i bought the caravan).

Something similar happened to me with Mr Lube.
My solution was youtube+intake cleaner+transmission fluid+tranny plug+fuel filter
saved my self well over $400.


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

im sorry.. but its a pile of BS. My car is 5 years old and I havent had to do brakes yet, they have about another year's worth of life on them yet. Different for every vehicle, but at 40000kms, no. if they need replacing now, ask for a refund for selling such an inferior vehicle. 

injectors - dont worry about them if they arent causing any problems (motor bogging down, etc). Check your manufactuers book that came with the vehicle, it shows all suggested maintenance schedules before agreeing to any service.


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## LikeItLow (Jan 11, 2011)

what kind of car do you drive katienaha? honestly 40,000k on new dodge caravan brakes is pretty good. look at my post on the first page. its no lie.


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