# DSB filter on fresh water tank?



## -DC- (Apr 21, 2010)

Just curious if anyone has ever tried this, seems like a pretty solid concept and easy enough too achieve. I understand the reluctance too have deep sand bed's in the tank itself, too much risk of the occupants coming into contact with the anaerobic activity, however in a sump this souldn't be a problem.

I'm building a new sump/wet dry, out of a spare 90g tank, too add too my 240g mix monster tank. 

I'm going too build up from it too attach a trickle towerand I'm really thinking about including a 1" plenum and 6" of super fine sand. Just curious if anyone else has experimented with DSB filters/sumps on fresh water tanks ?


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

What does DSB stand for?


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## -DC- (Apr 21, 2010)

Deep Sand Bed, 

The idea is too use a find sand substrate deep enough that the anaerobic bacteria can complete the nitrogen cycle which would reduce nitrate buildup in the tank.

This aspect of the nitrogen cycle is skipped in traditional tanks because of the toxic gasses that form in an anaerobic environment. If you put a substrate deep enough in tank too complete this process you risk exposing fish to toxic and lethal gas bubbles if they dig too deep into the sand.


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

DSB = deep sand bed.

It's a form of filtration that was en vogue in marine tanks a little while ago. It basically requires a deep sand bed (duh!) around 6" and a lot of sand sifting critters and other fauna to keep the bed healthy. Over time, anaerobic denitrification layers would develop leading, theoretically, to a nearly self-sustaining system. Some reported tank crashes and other methods of de-nitrification came along and many SW people have moved on.

The problem with DSBs in FW is that FW lacks much of the fauna present in SW to burrow and keep the DSB is a viable state before potentially dangerous anoxic methane pockets develop. Self-contained sand bed filtration systems come the closest in design, but these work on different principals.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

In a freshwater tank/sump could you just dump in a bunch of MTS or other type of burrowing snail to keep the sandbed healthy? As for using this idea in a sump I would imagine if you had toxic gases escape from the sandbed it would still permeate your main tank by way of the return water...


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

Immus21 said:


> In a freshwater tank/sump could you just dump in a bunch of MTS or other type of burrowing snail to keep the sandbed healthy? As for using this idea in a sump I would imagine if you had toxic gases escape from the sandbed it would still permeate your main tank by way of the return water...


Unfortunately, it's not that simple. DSBs are essentially mini-ecosystems which require an extremely diverse population of flora and fauna to work properly. Whereas SW hobbyists have access to things such as live rock an live sand, such diversity simply isn't available in the FW setting.

See below:
How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com


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## tang daddy (Apr 21, 2010)

DC, since you're incorporating a 90g sump into your larger set up you can make the 90g a large filter.... Instead of using sand with a dsb method, I've seen people use pot scrubbers the tough bristle type found in Chinatown, aswell as using pieces of foam from the dollar store, anything cheap that can trap particles and allow bacteria to grow on, even lava rock as it's porous!!


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## darb (Apr 21, 2010)

There is life in old threads ...

Anyways, I was experimenting with a DSB in a freshwater tank. Realistically one should have at least a control tank; a similarly stocked SSB tank which I didn't do. Ideally one could also do an DSB tank, a tank with FW "live rock" and a control tank all with similarly stocking levels.

But all that I had was a DSB puffer tank with plenum stocked with dwarf puffers which picked away even at the MTS that I put in to circulate the top layers of the DSB. What is even worse is the fact that that I hate doing water tests and was thus unable to log the water parameters.

But to close off the thread, I had a DSB FW dwarf puffer tank going for about 8 months and did a move and broke the tank in the move and decided to to restart the experiment ....

But IMHO an avenue worth experimenting in for the more advanced hobbiest.



-DC- said:


> Just curious if anyone has ever tried this, seems like a pretty solid concept and easy enough too achieve. I understand the reluctance too have deep sand bed's in the tank itself, too much risk of the occupants coming into contact with the anaerobic activity, however in a sump this souldn't be a problem.
> 
> I'm building a new sump/wet dry, out of a spare 90g tank, too add too my 240g mix monster tank.
> 
> I'm going too build up from it too attach a trickle towerand I'm really thinking about including a 1" plenum and 6" of super fine sand. Just curious if anyone else has experimented with DSB filters/sumps on fresh water tanks ?


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

old thread i know
with the lack of info concerning deep sand beds in the freshwater world, the few i have come across are full of plants, it makes it hard to see what the sand bed is responsible for and what the plants are responsible for.

concerns of critters in the sand digging too far, other findings on other forums have experience that this is a fear and not a reality.

i've seen enough people worry about the possibilities of things going wrong who have no experience, and those who have the experience who know what they're doing to show it works that i don't listen to the nay-sayers about much of anything. ... and life is happier and more productive that way.


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## Nicole (Nov 21, 2011)

I literally have a DSB in a FW tank but it wasn't for filtering purposes. I just wanted it to be easier for my plants and driftwood to stay put and it works. The tank is over a year old and the sand gets stirred up all the time unintentionally, never had a problem.


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## Flear (Dec 8, 2012)

anyone heard of or done a deep sand bed in a freshwater tank without plants ?


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