# Co2 atomizer question????



## jbyoung00008

I bought an inline atomizer the other day and really don't know all that much about them. I was tired of cleaning the Fluval diffuser I had and it seemed to clog fast so Ive ventured out into the world of atomizers. It was a pain to plumb into my Fluval canister hoses but with a little heat I was able to get it all together. Id like to think of it as Mcgiverd not Mickey mouses LOL. I bought the atomizer from J&L. They had 2 sizes. Neither fit my Fluval hoses. I ended up going to J&L three days in a row to try to get this thing to work on my system. I had to add a piecee of clear tube to make it work. Unfortunately I cut my fluval hose so I had to keep my canister in the sink with an air pump going to keep my bio media alive for the 3 days. Hopefully that worked as planed.

So my questions are?

1. Do you have to turn up the regulator to achieve the same amount of bubbles????? I HAD TO.

2. Anyone else using 1 and have pros and cons?

3. Any other info would be great.


Thanks


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## Dawna

You dont even need to up your regulator because the inline atomizer is suppose to chop the bubbles into finer bubbles so it may seem like its squirting out smaller/less bubbles, which it is but it just means its diffusing more efficiently through your water. You can increase your bubbles per second to see the same amount of bubbles as before but it just means you are pumping more co2 than what you had before.


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## blurry

More information please, what filter are you using, how much psi are you running, and do you have a drop checker?


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## Reckon

blurry said:


> More information please, what filter are you using, how much psi are you running, and do you have a drop checker?


Is this the atomizer you are referring to?









If it is you'll need to turn the PSI up to 30+ I believe.


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## effox

I used the same\similar atomizer (I think it was an "Up!"). I don't recall what psi I was using, but definitely check with a drop checker. I had a bell with the 1dkh solution I believe just to make sure I wasn't going to go over-"kill" on my inhabitants.


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## jbyoung00008

Reckon said:


> Is this the atomizer you are referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is you'll need to turn the PSI up to 30+ I believe.


Thanks Lawson. I tried calling you. That is the one I got. I will check the psi on my gauge tonight. I turned it up a decent amount. Otherwise there was no bubbles.


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## effox

You won't see as much bubbles as you do with a diffuser as it really makes it a fine mist and mixes with the outflow. I'd compare kh\ph if you don't have drop checking solutions as you won't be able to gauge it by eye by comparing it to what the diffuser looked like.


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## Reckon

When I first tried my atomizer I turned mine up to 20 PSI and felt it was a lot. You'll definitely need to go to at least 30 PSI. You'll see a misting of bubbles once you've achieved the right pressure.

*****You will need to keep an eye on your PSI and bubble count over the next few days. With higher PSI this is where you'll start to see the *true weakness* of the Milwaukee single stage regulator with stock needle valve - namely they aren't reliable for tuning in higher PSI.

What I mean by this is that my first couple times setting up the Atomizer I thought I had set it to 30 PSI with around 3 bubbles/sec only to come home from work the next day to see that the PSI had creeped up to 45 PSI and the tank was getting countless bubbles/sec. Of course my fish were quite "sick."

It's probably safer to set the PSI a bit lower and then each day creep up the pressure.

The negative with atomizers is similar to standard diffusers but with a bit more risk. When atomizers start to clog they put through less CO2; therefore requiring you to turn up the PSI to push more CO2. DO NOT be tempted to do this - clean your atomizer otherwise you might come home from work to see one of 2 outcomes: 1) dead fish or; 2) broken glass bubble counter and empty CO2 tank.


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## jbyoung00008

Thanks for all the tips. It sounds like I will need a better regulator. It seemed like a simple switch. I wish I would of asked before I bought one. LOL


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## jbyoung00008

What is the best option for adding Co2?


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## Reckon

jbyoung00008 said:


> Thanks for all the tips. It sounds like I will need a better regulator. It seemed like a simple switch. I wish I would of asked before I bought one. LOL


Well, I think 90% of us use the Milwaukee or other single stage regulators - even at $110 + tax, it's at least $150-$200 cheaper than the cheapest 2-stage out there. Plus you'd have to ship it in too.


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## 2wheelsx2

The only advantage of the dual stage is that as the gas runs out it holds the CO2 pressure steady. I run atomizers and bazooka diffusers at between 40 and 50 PSI to get the proper amount of CO2 diffusion in my tanks and the Milwaukee single stage works just fine. The Praxair dual stage I have has way better control, which is a peace of mind I need for my little ADA cube. For my 125 gallon it doesn't matter if the CO2 level fluctuates a bit as I have very high surface agitation in it and have to inject at a high rate anyway (using a 20 lb tank so it still lasts me a year or more).


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## jbyoung00008

2wheelsx2 said:


> The only advantage of the dual stage is that as the gas runs out it holds the CO2 pressure steady. I run atomizers and bazooka diffusers at between 40 and 50 PSI to get the proper amount of CO2 diffusion in my tanks and the Milwaukee single stage works just fine. The Praxair dual stage I have has way better control, which is a peace of mind I need for my little ADA cube. For my 125 gallon it doesn't matter if the CO2 level fluctuates a bit as I have very high surface agitation in it and have to inject at a high rate anyway (using a 20 lb tank so it still lasts me a year or more).


Thanks 2wheelsx. My pressure is at 42lbs right now so that's within your specs. Im glad to hear I have a decent setup. I just need to dial in on the correct amount of bubbles per sec.

How often do you clean your atomizer?


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## CRS Fan

I cleaned my atomizer once every 6 months to a year. Use CO2 proof tubing or you'll find that the nut (that clamps down the CO2 line) will corrode and become ineffective.

JMHO.

Styart


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## jbyoung00008

CRS Fan said:


> I cleaned my atomizer once every 6 months to a year. Use CO2 proof tubing or you'll find that the nut (that clamps down the CO2 line) will corrode and become ineffective.
> 
> JMHO.
> 
> Styart


Thanks Stuart. I am using proper Co2 line  I will clean it every 6 months than. What are you cleaning it with?


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## CRS Fan

Bleach into the co2 chamber, then Prime it well.


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## 2wheelsx2

I hate to admit this, but I've never cleaned my atomizer since the day I got it from Frank oh so many years ago (3 maybe?) Still works great, but obviously the dissolution rate is not as good. The caveat is that I have a bazooka diffuser on the other side of the tank ,which I have also never cleaned, and the bubbles are still as fine as ever.


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## shift

Good tips. I just ordered an up atomizer for my new shrimp tank How do you Guys like them? What's causes them to need a cleaning? Algae? If it's in the dark I'm sue u can go ages before a clean


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## jbyoung00008

I recommend installing it on the weekend when you are home all day to watch it. I came home from work to some dead fish. For some reason it was pumping lots of Co2 into the tank. Having the regulator set at 50psi leaves little room for error. I wish I was at home to watch it better. It's taken a few days to dial in on it. IThe drop checker is staying green now. IMO remove the shrimp if possible just incase you have an issue as well. Shrimp are very sensitive.

As for how its working. Its still too early to tell. One less line in the tank is nice


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## CRS Fan

shift said:


> Good tips. I just ordered an up atomizer for my new shrimp tank How do you Guys like them? What's causes them to need a cleaning? Algae? If it's in the dark I'm sue u can go ages before a clean


Typically they clog as a matter of particulates adhering to the diffuser. Sometimes it takes a while to clog an noted by Gary above. I have been using the atomizers for years with excellent results.

Best regards,

Stuart


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## nda

I have bought the same atomizer about two years ago. I have never had any problems with this thing. It has one "-" - be careful with hoses' connections because they are not very reliable. If you do not want much water on your floor. Sorry for my English, it is not my native language


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## shift

Installed mine today and I have a ton of micro bubbles coming out. Is there any way to eliminate these? 

I'm thinking of trying to loop a foot or two of hose in the back to give it more time to dissolve ..

Alternatively One could attach it to the inlet of the pump..

Any other ideas?


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## effox

I wouldn't suggest putting inline to the intake, I'm pretty sure even small bubbles could wear an impeller after time.

What PSI are you using? Have you checked the concentration with a drop checker?


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## shift

20-30psi 
Can't find my drop checker. Ordered a new one so hopefully be here for next week

I'll try a few loops to add dissolve time


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## effox

I think mine was set somewhere around that range and I didn't have any micro bubbles and the co2 levels seem optimal (according to the cheap drop checker\bell anyways).


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## shift

may be overkill


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## jbyoung00008

I have micro bubbles as well. I had to turn up the PSI to 60 to keep a good bubble count going. Drop checker is green.  Im still a little worried it might act up again but so far for the past 4 days no issues


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## shift

So far so good on my new extra hose setup


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## Daryl

I'm looking into adding CO2 to my tank - so over the last week or so I've been doing lots of research (a lot of it here!)... So I Googled "Milwaukee co2 regulator" and found a recent post from the planted tank forum - the post was made by an Aquarium store owner who had an issue with a Milwaukee regulator he installed on a customers tank. Anyhow, the folks at Milwaukee apparently told him that:

_"you should never have the working pressure above 15 psi. I asked about high pressure diffusers and he told me the regulator is not made for and will not properly operate at a psi of 30-35." _

There was some other interesting stuff posted; much of it refuting what the Milwaukee rep evidently told this person - a lot of it was above my head as I'm a super noob.

Not sure if it would be okay for me to post the link to the other forum here - anyone know how the mods feel about that stuff?


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## CRS Fan

I've bought 3 new Milwaukee 957's over a 5 year period. I've never had a problem with them and have always run them with 25-35 PSI using the atomizers. I also ensure that I refill the CO2 tank before it empties and always use a check valve between the regulator and atomizer.

I know this is contradictory to the "Milwaukee instructions" that tell you to run the regulator at 11 PSI. this does NOT work with the stock bubble counter/needle valve and a working pressure of AT LEAST 20 PSI is necessary to stabilize the bubble count. This is my personal experience and JMHO.

Respectfully,

Stuart


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## 2wheelsx2

I'm with Stuart. I don't think you can get any diffusion method to work properly with such a low pressure as 15 PSI. I've always had them at 20 PSI or higher.

Feel free to post the link. It's done all the time.

Another place you might want to go is The Barr Report by Tom Barr. There are a lot of custom CO2 rig builders there who can probably answer your questions more clearly.


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## Daryl

2wheelsx2 said:


> I'm with Stuart. I don't think you can get any diffusion method to work properly with such a lot pressure as 15 PSI. I've always had them at 20 PSI or higher.
> 
> Feel free to post the link. It's done all the time.
> 
> Another place you might want to go is The Barr Report by Tom Barr. There are a lot of custom CO2 rig builders there who can probably answer your questions more clearly.


Okay, here is the link.

Milwaukee co2 regulator info (warning)

There are a lot of comments similar to yours... I know sometimes companies will say one thing, generally for liability reasons, even when they know their product is used in another way and functions just fine...

So this leads me to another question - what regulators are commercially available in the lower mainland? J&L sells the Milwaukee and one called "Dual Guage CO2 regulator, solenoid & needle valve". I assume that is a generic no name model? It is more expensive than the Milwaukee unit, but is it better?

I've seen a few other brands online, that are fairly well reviewed, but in each instance it appears that they need to be ordered and shipped internationally. I'm reluctant to do this as I've heard nightmares about having to pay massive duties and brokerage fees (not for regulators specifically, but when mail ordering cross border).


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## 2wheelsx2

I believe what J&L used to sell was the Simgo (or was it Simco)?). I considered it briefly but didn't get it and ended up getting a Milwaukee mailed from the US (they didn't sell the Milwaukee 10 years ago) from Rex Grigg, who's no longer in the business. That's what I am using to run my atomizer and bazooka diffuser in my 125 gallon. For my ADA cube, because of the small size of the tank and concerns with regulation, I purchased a dual stage Praxair rig used from a member on BCA.

If you're are getting stuff from the US, there are a couple of ways to deal with this:

1. DO NOT use UPS. They have killer brokerage fees. Use Fedex or USPS (cheapest).
2. Ship to an address in Blaine or Point Roberts and pick it up. If you have the time, this is the best method.

I get tons of stuff from the US now, and so does everyone else, and I rarely pay duty or brokerage anymore.

You can also put up an ad here or on Canreef. I'm sure there are some used dual stage ones kicking around.


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## CRS Fan

J&L Aquatics now sells the Taprite/Fassco regulator instead of the Simgo regulator as their "dual gauge regulator". Both companies are beverage service suppliers/manufacturers and are also good brands (I now only have a used Simgo left because I can set the working pressure much lower with it - 2-3 PSI if needed). With that being said, I have seen too many new people ruin a regulator by not using a check valve and not refilling before the CO2 tank empties (EOTD). I have biases based on my experiences and I do have years of experience.

Respectfully,

Stuart


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## Daryl

2wheelsx2 said:


> If you're are getting stuff from the US, there are a couple of ways to deal with this:
> 
> 1. DO NOT use UPS. They have killer brokerage fees. Use Fedex or USPS (cheapest).
> 2. Ship to an address in Blaine or Point Roberts and pick it up. If you have the time, this is the best method.
> 
> I get tons of stuff from the US now, and so does everyone else, and I rarely pay duty or brokerage anymore.


Thank you for the info. I don't have a passport, or an enhanced DL, so I don't even know if I can get into the US...

I did not know that USPS delivered to or in Canada... Good to know. I saw the CarbonDoser Electronic Regulator on Aquariumplants.com. They ship to Canada and have the following statement on their site:

_"Hardgoods to Canada: we now provide NAFTA documents with all shipments, so, when items originate from the USA, NO duties will be charged."_

Problem is they use UPS to ship... 



CRS Fan said:


> J&L Aquatics now sells the Taprite/Fassco regulator instead of the Simgo regulator as their "dual gauge regulator". Both companies are beverage service suppliers/manufacturers and are also good brands (I now only have a used Simgo left because I can set the working pressure much lower with it - 2-3 PSI if needed). With that being said, I have seen too many new people ruin a regulator by not using a check valve and not refilling before the CO2 tank empties (EOTD). I have biases based on my experiences and I do have years of experience.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Stuart


Thanks for the info. Sounds like you may prefer the Simgo; but you think the Taprite/Fassco is a decent option?

Here's the thing... I'm not made of money or anything, but I learned sometime ago that you can buy the cheap stuff lots of times, or buy the good stuff once. I don't think the J&L dual stage regulator is out of reach price wise - and with Boxing day approaching I am hoping it may even sell for a little bit less than what's advertised today... I guess my question is; is it worth it or should I wait and save up for a CarbonDoser or GLA?? The real downside to either of those units (if I _assume_ they are a superior product, and therefore worth the additional cost), is the potential shipping issues (which 2wheelsx2 helped me feel a little better about).


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## jbyoung00008

Ive owned the milwaukee for 4 years now. The all in 1 setup I like. The only issue Ive ever had was the solenoid valve got stuck closed. I cleaned the valve and it still works great!!! Any other issues Ive had were all human error. I did just notice a few days ago that the one gauge is loose. Might be from me but its something I need to look into.


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## CRS Fan

Daryl said:


> Thank you for the info. I don't have a passport, or an enhanced DL, so I don't even know if I can get into the US...
> 
> I did not know that USPS delivered to or in Canada... Good to know. I saw the CarbonDoser Electronic Regulator on Aquariumplants.com. They ship to Canada and have the following statement on their site:
> 
> _"Hardgoods to Canada: we now provide NAFTA documents with all shipments, so, when items originate from the USA, NO duties will be charged."_
> 
> Problem is they use UPS to ship...
> 
> Thanks for the info. Sounds like you may prefer the Simgo; but you think the Taprite/Fassco is a decent option?


I have no experience with the Fassco/Taprite regulator, but I'm sure they are fine (otherwise complaints would be found here). As far as the GLA regulator goes, they are pricey AND, if you read Ray Wong's 120 gallon thread, he says they are overpriced and a good needle valve on a lower end regulator will work fine for most people's requirements.

I'm not familiar with the "carbon doser" regulator and have no comment on that one.

Respectfully,

Stuart


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## jbyoung00008

Im still struggling with my atomizer and at this point Im regreting the switch. It seems no matter what PSI I have it set at, the bubbles come out at the same rate. I have it at 50PSI now and it bubbles quick at the start but over a minutes time, the bubbles slow down and continue at a slow rate. 1 bubble every 2 seconds. My bubble counter is green but sometimes it blue. 

Is it possible the atoizer is plugged? If I unplug the line bubbles come out of my needle valve like crazy.

Any suggestions???


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## CRS Fan

Are you using CO2 proof tubing? It sound like there might a slow leek at the nipple/nut connection of the atomizer. If you need to clean the atomizer just remove it, fill the CO2 compartment with bleach (let it sit overnight), then shake out the bleach and dechlorinate and shake the compartment again. I have never had to have my working pressure above 35 PSI.

I hope this gives you some insight and assistance,
Justin.

Best regards,

Stuart


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## jbyoung00008

CRS Fan said:


> Are you using CO2 proof tubing? It sound like there might a slow leek at the nipple/nut connection of the atomizer. If you need to clean the atomizer just remove it, fill the CO2 compartment with bleach (let it sit overnight), then shake out the bleach and dechlorinate and shake the compartment again. I have never had to have my working pressure above 35 PSI.
> 
> I hope this gives you some insight and assistance,
> Justin.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart


I am using the black co2 tubing. I have the milwauke regulator with the built in needle valve and bubble counter.

If I had a leak, Wouldn't that allow me to increase the bubbles instead of not be able? I will check with soapy water tonight.

Ive only had the atomizer for a few weeks so it shouldn't be plugged but it seems like it is???? Ill clean it tonight too

Thanks Stuart


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## CRS Fan

That's very odd. Another possibility is that your bubble counter is leaking at the bottom where the counter joins the needle valve. I have had to Teflon tape this union once with a Milwaukee 957. 

Just some more food for thought.

Best regards,

Stuart


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## jbyoung00008

CRS Fan said:


> That's very odd. Another possibility is that your bubble counter is leaking at the bottom where the counter joins the needle valve. I have had to Teflon tape this union once with a Milwaukee 957.
> 
> Just some more food for thought.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart


Thanks. The more food, the better. Im looking for ideas. This is bugging me but I haven't had enough time to figure it out. The gause is loose at the base. Maybe its leaking from there. I need to replace it either way.

I took the solenoid valve off and cleaned it. I couldn't remove the bubble counter. It's seems stuck to the needle valve. I think it will break it I turn it hard so I didn't.

It really seems plugged because if I unplug the co2 tube at the atomizer I place the tube in the water. It will bubble like crazy. Which brings me back to thinking its the atomizer???? What a pain I Was looking for easier maintenance not more LOL


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## CRS Fan

I have never had a "lemon" atomizer from the get go. I'm thinking there must be a slow breach in the line somewhere because it sound like the atomizer doesn't have enough pressure to work properly. Is the CO2 chamber filling with water (if so the pressure is not sufficient to run it)? It can have a small amount of water or water vapour in the chamber to run properly though....

More food for thought.....

Best regards,

Stuart


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## jbyoung00008

It did work great when I first set it up. Than I came home from work and found a bunch of fish dead. The bubbles were coming out like crazy. It seems after that the atomizer has had issues. Im wondering if the bubbles pushed water inside the Atomizer causing a clog or something like that.

I did unplug the co2 line at the atomizer and sucked on it to see if it had water in the atomizer. It seemed okay. Tasted bad LOL


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## 2wheelsx2

I think Stuart is on the money. If you had a leak, as you increase the pressure more CO2 is bled out, leaving you with whatever CO2 rate is sustainable given the leak. No matter what the setup is, increasing the output of the CO2 should give you more gas. The only 2 ways this won't happen is if you have regulator that can't hold pressure and it's coming out the bypass or if you have some other leak in the system.


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## jbyoung00008

Thanks 2wheelsx2. It sounds like I have some work ahead of me tonight to find this leak. The tank is flourishing even with the issues I'm having so I cant wait to figure this out.


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## jbyoung00008

No luck. I can't find a leak. I hooked up my old fluval ceramic diffuser. No issues! 

Maybe I bought a POP?


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## CRS Fan

I'm thinking the atomizer may be defective, Justin. I am sorry to hear of this. If you bought it locally, can you swap it for a new one?

Best regards,

Stuart


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## jbyoung00008

New update Stuart. I woke up this morning and found the tank empty. The left gauge was at 0psi. I write the date on the bottle when I get it filled. Its been 8months so its right around the time to fill it. I thought this might be the issue so I lifted it the other day and it seemed heavy. I should weight it empty so I know for next time. 

Is it possible the tank was just low so there wasn't enough pressure???

Thanks again


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## CRS Fan

At first glance, I thought your FISH tank was empty...... DOH! It is VERY possible that was the cause as it usually needs at least 500 on the right gauge, Justin. Time to make a trip to Royal City Fire. 

I would still bleach out the atomizer because you can .

Best regards,

Stuart


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## jbyoung00008

LOL I meant Co2 tank empty. Although the tank did start leaking Saturday morning and I was preparing to rip it all apart on Sunday. I had an Xmas party at my house Saturday night and one of my quests (Sidius) found the leak in the top corner of the tank. Thank goodness!!! This tank is doing so good right now, I was heart broken to have to tear it apart but luckily I don't have too 

I did bleach the atomizer yesterday. I literally made sure everything was okay, well except the tank being full LOL. Unless there is a leak and that's why it was empty. Either way the date on it says its time to refill so Im hoping all will be back to normal a soon as I fill it.

Im a Tri Cities guy so I do to Port moody fire supplies.

Thanks Again


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## CRS Fan

No worries, Justin. Keep us posted.


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## jbyoung00008

I went to a fire guard today. My Co2 tank still had 4lbs of Co2. I got it filled anyways. Came home. Set it up. Same problem. I'm now back to my fluval disc. I'll be returning the atomizer ASAP. Very frustrating. This thing has caused nothing but issues. Somehow the tank has done great with all these issues. Not impressed. Should of done my homework and figured out a better option


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## CRS Fan

All I can say Justin, is all my atomizer experiences have been good......


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