# Python not cutting it!!!



## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

I have recently setup a 120G tank in my basement. I filled it using my Python which barely reach as the nearest faucet is upstairs on the main floor. After I filled it I tried siphoning some water out to make sure I had enough suction to pull the water upstairs. Obviously I didn't so that's why I'm posting here. Since manual siphon and bucket changes are seriously outta the question, I'm wondering what size of submersible pump will be big enough to do the job properly? Is there a type of pump that'll still allow me to siphon ditrus while doing a water change? Any experiences/advice will be greatly appretiated.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

You are talking about some serious money for a continuous duty aquarium pump.

Go to Princess Auto or HomeDepot to pick up a 3/4 HP sump pump for under $100. Get a garden hose bib adapter at the same time and a garden hose if you done have one long enough. There is a good chance it will push it a long way. If not you can always return it if you keep all the packaging dry and clean. Bear in mind that these are not design for continuously run, a few hundred gallons at a time should be no problem. You may have to improvise a screen for it (buckets with holes) to avoid sucking up fish.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

I use a pool cover pump made by little giant. Cheapest pump that I could find that pulls a ton of water. Better value than the sump pumps or any aquarium pump. ( I used a $ per gph rating to decide) Got a garden hose attached and that's what I use for the 700 gallons that I'm running. 
Picked mine up from amazon.com.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

mmmm. Jer. he has to watch out for the head. Sounds like he is driving 10-12 ft head that would dead stop a lot of pumps.


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

AquaCharge Rechargeable Portable Water Pump (AQ500-100)

A bit pricey simply for water changes out of a single tank, but it seems to fit your requirements.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

The AquaCharge has a max. head of 2m that means 0 flow at 6 ft or less


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

deepRED said:


> I use a pool cover pump made by little giant. Cheapest pump that I could find that pulls a ton of water. Better value than the sump pumps or any aquarium pump. ( I used a $ per gph rating to decide) Got a garden hose attached and that's what I use for the 700 gallons that I'm running.
> Picked mine up from amazon.com.


if this is the pump your referring to: http://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-Horsepower-5-MSP-Submersible/dp/B000LGA666/ref=pd_cp_hi_1, more info: 505600 | Pool Cover ....these are actually pretty good pumps. I worked on swimming pools for many years and we used these alot. I've seen these pump 10' straight up without any problems.


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

$150 John. Spec is less than :

1/3 HP Simer Submersible Sump Pump | Princess Auto for $49.99 

OR this : http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8419780/Sump-Pumps/1/2-HP-Simer-Submersible-Sump-Pump @ $69.99 

I may just pick one up for WC to my 75g


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

depending on the layout if your basement I would be looking at the possibility of there being access to your houses water /sewer system. Accessing that if possible would cut down GPH on the pump by reducing the head requirements.

I personally did all my w/c's using a 5 gallon bucket set inside a large storage tub.and then drained,vacuumed or removed substrate with various size hoses into the 5 gallon bucket as it over flowed into the tub it was them pumped out via a mag pump set into the storage container, then pumped into the planters on my patio. A 1 inch hose removes pretty much any substrate with out having to remove fish....tho I had to rescue a few from the 5 gallon bucket a few times. r


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Good idea Bill! 

lol Gordon, I didn't say they were cheap  actually closer to $100 with shipping I think,however half the price is definitely better, though reducing the discharge size by half ( presuming a garden hose was the hose being used) may cause unnecessary strain on the motor causing it to possibly fail sooner or the pump seal to leak maybe? or not...I'm no expert lol


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

restricting pumps flow with smaller outlet will according to link below would act as head ..

http://www.overclock.net/t/150100/info-pump-head-vs-flow-rate
you want to pump water only ( no vacuuming ) any sump pump with a garden hose thread on the outlet should be sufficient. After all you just need one to keep up with water flow being removed. 1500 gallons at 25 feet of head is a bit much unless you have a swimming pool down there to drain.
check out the sump pumps at your home depot and larger crap tire stores.princess auto may have them as well .read the flow vs head specs usually in or on the box.most hardware outlets have them available as well ...shop around ,prices vary considerably


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## gklaw (May 31, 2010)

Different pump at $100 John. Restricting the outlet is never too much of a problem. Some time a bigger long hose will create problem as the pump cannot compensate with the velocity. In simple term, too big a column of water to push.

True Aquaman, it depends on the head he is pushing. The smaller one at $49 is adequate but is out of stock. Remember though 1500 gallon is per hour = 35gpm, that will take 5 minutes to drain a 200g tank - still not a short time.


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

I found mine on sale. 

Never checked out princess when I was looking actually. Just Canadian tire and a few hardware stores. These pumps are definitely cheaper. How good they are and long they last I don't know, but at that price you can afford to try it out and see.



gklaw said:


> $150 John. Spec is less than :
> 
> 1/3 HP Simer Submersible Sump Pump | Princess Auto for $49.99
> 
> ...


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

It would be about 15Ft worth of head to overcome as I have 10Ft ceilings then the 3 - 4 ft to reach the sink it would drain to. I guess I could drain it out the basement window then it would only be about 8 -10ft of head... The 1/3HP pump gklaw suggested seems like a good starting point. The flow rate at even 20ft is still 1800GPH which would only take a few mins to do the job. I'm only talking about draining 50 - 75 gallons max at a time here so what's that 2 or 3 mins at 1800GPH or 30GPM? Thanks for everyones input I'll check out Princess Auto on my days off.


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## Kimrocks (Aug 30, 2011)

Great Info/Topic here -

A couple of questions:

1. What is the best way to condition water in prep for a tank waterchange? 
- Air Pump ? Powerhead - Circulate for how long? 1 day? 1/2 day? - Heater needed?

2. The Water Sump from the likes of Princess Auto - I plan to get one of these: 1/3 HP Stainless Steel Sump Pump | Princess Auto
- Do you just lower it into your tank? How best to avoid killing any fishes that may get sucked in? Any tips?

3. The Drums from Rona / Home Depot are not that big - any suggestions for a good storage water container?

I would like to refine how often and how I do WC - hopefully to make it easy and good enough (quality) to raise Stingrays and/or Discus in 180 gallon tank.

Any tips appreciated - Thanks in advance.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

I plan on putting the pump in some sort of basin directly in the tank to avoid sucking up all my sand. As for the fish I might install mesh over the pump inlet to hopefully keep any fish front being sucked up. I hadn't really thought about the refilling process as I've always used my python and filled directly from the faucet. Guess I'll just attach the draining end of the hose to the faucet and remove the other end from the pump and fill like that. Something I hadn't thought of too; will a typical sink be able to handle the amount of water being pumped out? I'm thinking 30+G/min would overflow a sink....

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Immus21 said:


> I plan on putting the pump in some sort of basin directly in the tank to avoid sucking up all my sand. As for the fish I might install mesh over the pump inlet to hopefully keep any fish front being sucked up. I hadn't really thought about the refilling process as I've always used my python and filled directly from the faucet. Guess I'll just attach the draining end of the hose to the faucet and remove the other end from the pump and fill like that. Something I hadn't thought of too; will a typical sink be able to handle the amount of water being pumped out? I'm thinking 30+G/min would overflow a sink....
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk


I dunno about overflowing your sink, but the size of the hose (inside diameter) should restrict your outflow. What would be the size of your hose? I use a 3/4" ID and even that extra quarter inch, it's so much faster than the standard 1/2" ID python type hoses.


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## hp10BII (Apr 23, 2010)

Kimrocks said:


> Great Info/Topic here -
> 
> A couple of questions:
> 
> ...


How much water would you like to store? There are a few members on the forum that may have food grade containers that can store perhaps 50 gallons of water. I see postings on craigslist or even on this forum from time to time.

I use the rubbermaid "brute" series of trash cans myself, I have them in 32 and 42 gallon sizes. I heat and aerate it with a little boxed corner filter
filled with floss and gravel (to weight it down) overnight to help outgass the water and it's good to go.

For high volume apps, those utility pumps looks really good, but I use this for draining and attach a Mag 7 pump to refill by dropping it into my trash can:

Safety Siphon Aquarium Drain


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## Kimrocks (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks everyone for these tips. BTW - The Typical sink is unable to drain water fast enough for the 1/3 HP pump (water flow was too strong) - found that out when I tried it last week - : )


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## Clownloachlover (Apr 21, 2010)

if you have a floor drain in your basement, why not just direct your drain hose there...there SHOULD be a floor drain near your hot water tank if that is in your basement


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## deepRED (May 22, 2010)

Kimrocks said:


> Great Info/Topic here -
> 
> A couple of questions:
> 
> ...


The largest brute container that home depot carries is 50 gallons. it's the large wheeled one. The only problem is that it's pretty expensive. For the price, I'd rather pick up a 50 or 75 gallon tank and use that to store my water. That way if you ever get the itch you can set it up in a pinch. 

You've probably noticed that you shouldn't really worry about the pump sucking up your fish unless your fish are really small or sick. Plus, with the pump moving water so fast, you really can't walk away from it too long without worrying about emptying your tank completely.

For my discus tank, I do a 50% water change, straight from tap, every 5 days. That's in a 200 gallon tank, so 100 gallons of water every 5 days. I really don't have the space to age and heat my water before doing changes, but I haven't ran into any issues and it works well for me. 
Keep in mind that when I put water back in I break syphon and let the water splash and de-gas a bit as it's entering into the tank. I also have a huge amount of plants growing out of my filter.

In my 300 gallon, I do a 50% change every 7-10 days, exact same method. I use a pump with garden hose to drain, then python from the tap to refill. Takes me about 30 minutes total. 
The bottleneck for me is always refilling. Since it's from tap, I'm limited by my water pressure and the volume of my hot water tank. Even if I drain my tank in 2 minutes, it's always the refilling that takes the most time.
Aging and heating your water in another container will solve the problem as you can then refill as fast as your sump pump can go. It comes down to having the space to do it. Ideally you can automate everything with float switches and timers. Look at gklaw's setup for an example.


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## Kimrocks (Aug 30, 2011)

I am being too careful perhaps after losing 2 Clown Loach after a 50% WC - I did forget to put "Prime" in afterwards at that time. 

I have 2 Drums a 34 Gallon and 20 Gallon - These should provide me with around 30% WC for my 180-gallon tank. I can use Tap water to top up as needed, this must be better than a 100% Tap water WC? 

BTW - I think there was a recent article in the paper about the Water Flushing city-wide and for people to be aware of this as water coming out of tap could be different in colour. I think a Bulletin warning to BC Aquaria members would be useful? I cannot remember where I read this - I think this is happening next week. 

I was able to empty a drum into the tank in less than 1 min - literally needed only just a few seconds to empty the drum into the tank. I was initially worried about the fishes, but they moved to the other end of the tank and it went smoothly.

If I can use the pump to drain the tank and then also use it to move the water in the 2 drums to the tank - at this speed - I could complete the process in less than 5 minutes - : ). The longest time spent will be to refill the 2 drums. 

I am trying not to get more tanks at this stage -: ) - but will see later in the year. 

I have a nice spot for an even bigger tank.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

We've got large tanks and I currently do a low-tech drain on the water change. We went to Rona and bought 50' of flexible 1" sump hose (about $10). I rubber banded coarse gauze over the pipe end to prevent any fish from vanishing, ran the pipe out the door, started the siphon going and let it run! I still manually vacuum the gravel while the water drains, but that's typically only a few buckets.

When we have the really large tanks set up, I'll probably add a pump to do this even faster, but right now the slow part is refilling the tanks with the python.


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