# What am I in for switching from fresh to salty ???



## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

Hi just in middle of purchasing a new tank from a friend , I've always done freshwater but I'm considering salt the fish are no comparison ! , I'm just curious as to what I'm up for and what to expect ? The tank I'm purchasing is 300 gallon ? I've heard it's easier to go bigger with salty but I'm unsure on everything ? Please some advice from someone who's just started to the masters what am I up for ? Should I stick with fresh ?


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

I've been doing freshwater on and off for close to 10 years


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

Just a warning, setting up a 300 will get pretty pricey


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

I figured ,y friends mom just set up a 225g looks great And I know she's on a much bigger budget than I'd be on what am I looking at for original start up costs ? Skimmer,wave maker etc ?


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

Travo said:


> I figured ,y friends mom just set up a 225g looks great And I know she's on a much bigger budget than I'd be on what am I looking at for original start up costs ? Skimmer,wave maker etc ?


Skimmer and liverock will be the most expensive parts, guessing the tank is drilled?


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

Yes it's a 300gallon marineland deep dimension drilled , how long does salt water take before adding fish ? And wats a top of line skimmer and some liverock gunna run me ?


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

Travo said:


> Yes it's a 300gallon marineland deep dimension drilled , how long does salt water take before adding fish ? And wats a top of line skimmer and some liverock gunna run me ?


About 2-4 weeks and you can slowly add fish IMO depending on how you cycle it

Good skimmer can run anywhere from 500-5000$


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## Chrisphungg (Oct 8, 2012)

Live rock you can buy from many places including BCA usually around $3-4/lb. In stores it would be near $6-7/lb. Try craigslist and BCA.


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

I have probably over a 150lb of coral rock or more prob closer to 200lb can this be grown into liverock ? It came from an African tank


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

Travo said:


> I have probably over a 150lb of coral rock or more prob closer to 200lb can this be grown into liverock ? It came from an African tank


Generally the rock from African tanks isn't as porous as reef rock although it can be seeded in order to make it live but that will slow down your cycle and most people seed it with rock from a running system. I usually go 50/50 dead rock to live rock


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

its real coral or base rock then yes it can be live rock did you wana do a reef or a fish only


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

Reef for sure , unless its a huge amount of extra work but I love the reefs.


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

it is waaay more work all the target feeding and proper lighting. also making sure the corals dont sting each other by growing to big. Adding supplements to your water as well for good coral grown.


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

Sounds like a pain in the ass, this is why I've stuck with fresh but I'm always up for a challenge :lol:


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

MEDHBSI said:


> it is waaay more work all the target feeding and proper lighting. also making sure the corals dont sting each other by growing to big. Adding supplements to your water as well for good coral grown.


Not all corals require target feeding, tbh I don't really feed any of my corals


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Salt is as easy or as complicated as you want to make it. What are you in for hmmm; empty bank account,frustration,buyers remorse and finally aquatic glory!!! Larger tanks are easier as salt is all about stability,simplly it takes more for your parameters to fluctuate but....equipment can be nuts forget about the skimmer the lights on a tank that big are going to kill you$$$$$ You can use dry rock at a quarter the cost of live rock then seed it with a few pieces of good liverock. Believe it or not a skimmer isnt allways needed. You can do fowlr (fish only with liverock),macro algae tank,softie tank,sps or mixed reef all of which require different needs and require different skill levels.

Question is how far do you want to take it and what do you want to keep? Fish only with liverock requires no skimmer and doesnt need a crazy light,in that same setup you could also grow macro algae and some soft coral....anything more than that is going to require a serious investment in money and research.

And research,research,research EVERYTHING saltwater is trying to kill everything else mismatching can lead to disaster and headaches.
Hope that helps trying not to kill you with information lol,goodluck


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

I think the most expensive equipment is LR, I am one of those old timer that like to run at least a lb per gallon and deep sand bed for about 6 inches deep. This alone can cost a lot. I would say at least $3/lb so that alone is over $400 if you do re-use those 150 lb rocks, if you getting everything brand new, then you looking at about $800 just in rocks at least. Not to mention most LR are over $5/lb. Sand or CC with 6" deep can also get pretty expensive for a large tank as well but they are pretty essential for a good self sustained reef system.
I would suggest before you start putting down rocks and sand, use some PVC pipe to place under the base rock, so water can flow thru the bottom of the base rock, more like a artificial cave.

The 2nd most expensive equipment is your lighting system if you are running reef tank.
being expensive can be both initial cost or long term cost.
MH/T5/PC initial cost are low range about $200 to $300 but can adds up the cost once the light bulb change begin and extra gadget to lower temperature. $40 to $80 per bulb depend on what bulbs and how many are there. And chiller can be around $300 to $600 that is powerful enough to make a differences in a large system and electric bill can also be a concern. 
LED are higher initial cost can range from $600 to over $2000 but no longer need to do bulb change and most the fixture can last around 3 to 5 years.

The would be a large skimmer, which cost already mentioned in the prev post by others.
I also recommend to have a large enough sump that can have a good size refrugium. This no only help you balance your system, provide food source for many of your live stocks. Also add more water volume to your total system. As all our SW folks know, the bigger the better (and easier)

Oh talkin about water, for a large system, you might also want to consider a good RO/DI unit for your tank that hook up to a Auto top off system, so you can set it and let it run on its own. You really don't need to do large scale water change in a long time with the size of that tank

I would also suggest to use reactor but those are not a "must". they are just luxury to have.


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

I should add you dont NEED to target feed coral nor do you have to dose anything,simplly feeding a variety of food and doing weeklly water changes acomplishes the same thing and will keep your reef happy enough. Though when you want to take it to the next level you can set timers to dose the minute its needed and you certainlly could target feed if you wanted to see the FULL growth potential.
As I mentioned before its as complicated as you want to make it


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

dabandit1 said:


> Salt is as easy or as complicated as you want to make it. What are you in for hmmm; empty bank account,frustration,buyers remorse and finally aquatic glory!!! Larger tanks are easier as salt is all about stability,simplly it takes more for your parameters to fluctuate but....equipment can be nuts forget about the skimmer the lights on a tank that big are going to kill you$$$$$ You can use dry rock at a quarter the cost of live rock then seed it with a few pieces of good liverock. Believe it or not a skimmer isnt allways needed. You can do fowlr (fish only with liverock),macro algae tank,softie tank,sps or mixed reef all of which require different needs and require different skill levels.
> 
> Question is how far do you want to take it and what do you want to keep? Fish only with liverock requires no skimmer and doesnt need a crazy light,in that same setup you could also grow macro algae and some soft coral....anything more than that is going to require a serious investment in money and research.
> 
> ...


He did mention he is going reef, I can't really think of anyone with a system this big only want to go pure softies.(although it would look amazing with a huge zoath garden like this size)
I think most of us are giving our opinion base on best practice. There are many things that you can bypass and you might still get away. Just to name a few, you don't need skimmer , just water change can do it, you don't need to use CA reactor cuz all the Slat mix should have enough calcium to replace them so water change is enough, you don't need to change light bulbs on your T5 , maybe the coral can get use to the spectrum and still live for some time. While these can be true, but they are not the best practice for reef keeping.
Even with fish only, having a skimmer helps. It remove those extra organic that can become nitrate in later days. While most fish can tolerant nitrate up to 100ppm, it is not healthy for them. It is just like living in a polluted city doesn't kill you instantly but can easiy get you sick.


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

I would live to go fish with corals , lets say I can turn this coral rock into live rock like my friend said , correct me if I'm wrong , and I've got a 6 bulb t5 high out put and also some MH 150 watt lights if those are sufficient for reef ? Would possibly save me some money also have 6 strong power heads for current if needed . Then I would need ...
1, sand 2 skimmer. 3 chiller 4 salt 5 chemicals ? 6 possibly live rock + new lighting 
Anything else I am missing ?


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

Patience , frustration lol


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

You most Likely wont ever need a skimmer, I was running 750w of MH over my 300 and never once got even close to overheating


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## AdamsB (Oct 18, 2011)

Hey Travo if your not doing anything tomorrow I'm off work and your welcome to pop round and see the 90 gallon I just set up. I can run through some thoughts you may have and show you how I did it and also show you what not to do in my 20 gallon that looks like a refugium, which wasn't intended. Hair algae is a real pain. I'm by no means an expert but I have done a lot of research and put all I it into practice. I'm just off Springfield and can pm you my number if you're interested.


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

For sure PM me your number might have to wait few days I'm just getting over flu


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

not much i dont think you need a chiller my reef survives the sumer lol buffers mabie ?do you have a sump or are you going with a canister filter


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## icy.bing (Jun 19, 2010)

hoho 300G SW... that would be interesting... 
right off top of my head
300pounds of live rock running anywhere between $4-$9/pound
Sump/plumping supply/pumps/lights... wohoo. I can't imagine hah
but it will be a beauty when its done... o... and live stocks... ha... better have a deep pocket =D


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Travo said:


> I would live to go fish with corals , lets say I can turn this coral rock into live rock like my friend said , correct me if I'm wrong , and I've got a 6 bulb t5 high out put and also some MH 150 watt lights if those are sufficient for reef ? Would possibly save me some money also have 6 strong power heads for current if needed . Then I would need ...
> 1, sand 2 skimmer. 3 chiller 4 salt 5 chemicals ? 6 possibly live rock + new lighting
> Anything else I am missing ?


Start simple and let your tank tell you what it needs. Get the right bulbs and either of those fixtures will work,20-50x turnover for your powerheads,deep sand bed (doesnt need to be 6'',I think 4'' is recomended and down to 2'' if you use the finest substrate) and a reactor filled with carbon and gfo to help with the new tank syndrome and your in buisness. Get good marine test kits and dose when your tank needs it...(guarantee it wont if you do regular water changes),you wont need to dose anything until your tank has a demand for it just test often and dose whats needed if anything.
-Stock slowlly,if your nitrates/phosphates dont drop on their own then add something like a skimmer or more macro in your sump...still dont drop add more rock,deeper sand bed,biopelets......
-Corals start to brown out add a  better light
-temp staying too high,buy a chiller

Everytank is different best thing to do is let YOUR tank tell you what it needs or you'll end up with a bunch of stuff you dont really need. Just my two cents from a guy whos tried and failed in damn near every approach until I learned to read my tanks.

Goodluck


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

I will be setting up a sump so canister filter would be needed I'm assuming .... And yes I will try and read the tank before making purchases ... And I know this is going to sound dumb lol but do you use a heater or is marine different ? Because people haven't only mentioned chillers and I'm just curious I'm making a list now for if I do decide to go salt water over the next few days .... My next hurdle is getting this beast of a tank upto kelowna from abbotsford this week ... Apparently these 300g DD tanks are heavy heavy heavy !!


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

No canister needed,just a filter sock in your sump most reefers dont use filters. Yes you need a heater.
I bet that badboy is heavy just wait 300g of water=3000lbs about lol

-marine bulbs
-return pump&plumbing
-filter sock
-sand& seed rock
-heater
-marine test kits;magnesium,calcium,ph,kh,nitrate and phosphate are the basics
-skimmer if you plan on a heavy stock

And your in buisness about 400$ not counting skimmer


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

Awesome bandit thanks alot


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

No worries,I remember how intimidating it was making the switch...I wanna see some pics when it gets going!!! I got a bad case of the reefer madness,need a steady supply lol


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Did you decide to sell a kidney and go salty?....no worries you have 2 lol


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

i would enquire about a second mortgage or a line of credit ...............................


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## AdamsB (Oct 18, 2011)

Gotta agree there. I've maxed out credit cards an I'm considering skipping the country back to Ireland to avoid paying them, all for the salty addiction!


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## shift (Dec 21, 2012)

haha you guys are making me second guess going salty on the next tank.


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## Travo (Dec 16, 2012)

After much consideration I've decided to stick with fresh , not just because I'd have to sell my kidney or sell my wife's diamonds to pay for it but I've just decided because the extra needed attention .My fresh tanks are enough work but they do look good but ill be converting my 150g into all African tank but ill be starting from scratch since I just lost my all male lake Malawi tank due to ammonia spike caused from a fish dying in tank while I was away . And my 300gallon I'm going to pick up 2mrw wish me luck these things weigh a quarter ton apparently lol ..that tank will be sick!! Arrowana,p bass , bunch a cool fish .... With 2 fx5 and I'm setting up sump as well


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## dabandit1 (Dec 6, 2010)

Lol,chicken. Theres really no extra work involved,but the price point certainly is a killer for a tank that big. Filled with water a 300g tank is well over a tonne enough to crack an unreinforced concrete slab or make an average floor joist take notice...or fail if your framer cut corners,good luck lol I guess we'll see how well your house is built one way or another.


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## onefishtwofish (Apr 21, 2010)

AdamsB said:


> Gotta agree there. I've maxed out credit cards an I'm considering skipping the country back to Ireland to avoid paying them, all for the salty addiction!


as long as u can take your tanks with..............


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