# My guppies are dying - recovered



## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

My 25g full of guppies are very sick and they're quickly dying one after another. There is some type of outbreak and I need to know exactly what it is to be treated (water parameters are all fine). 

The affected fish are rubbing against rocks and leaves, a few of them have gray looking skin on their back (Columnaris?), some of them have clamped fins. There were some fin rots too (could also be caused by Columnaris)

Update:
After a week of Kordon Ich Attack dosages, the fish are finally looking better and active again. Although I'm not entirely sure that it was the Kordon that cured the diseases since it did not show improvement after the 5th day. I added tons of salt and increased temperature to 86F, a few large water changes and also dosed with Prazipro prior to the Kordon treatment.

I tried QuICK Cure on a separate tank and it did not save many of the sick fish after 3 days (most with just clamped fins). In fact, the fish appeared to get worse after getting the treatment.

One thing that was noticeably effective was the use of Melafix for fin rot. The fin rot stopped spreading as soon as the treatment began. I was able to save one fish that had half of the tail fin gone, and it's lively again.

Overall this was a frustrating experience due to the high treatment cost (trying different medications) and all the effort and time spent. It got to a point where I just toss out sick fish (mostly fry) as soon as I spotted them to prevent further spreading of the diseases.

If anyone reading this has some kind of positive experience please let me know. I would also like to know the best cure for the Clamped Fin disease. It seems to happen very often for Guppies.

Thank you for all the help and suggestions. It's time to work on a quarantine tank...


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

Without doing a skin/gill scrape you won't know for sure but it sounds like a fluke outbreak. If it is flukes salt won't help. Quick cure isn't the best choice either. You would be much better off returning the Quick Cure and picking up some Prazipro. It is a gentle treatment and yet effective against flukes.


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

It's getting worse... some of the fish fins are clamped and swimming weakly at the top. The skin cloudiness are more obvious now... I feel like it's too late to treat the tank . I'm going to get Prazipro first thing tomorrow morning. 

I recently added some apple snails into the tank and I think they maybe the problem source. Any other suggestions?


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Lost two more last night, I could see the fins got eaten away by the parasites. I've never seen anything this serious. Just did a large water change and dosed the tank with Prazipro.. hope it'll help...


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Bad news... the outbreak has now spread to to my other 20g guppy fry and shrimp tank. I did move 2 fry from the 25g 2 days ago.. or maybe it was the new guppy I put in there. Most of the fry are swimming at the top and not moving much, definitely different from this morning when I last looked at them. I dosed the tank with Prazipro too... if not, whatever... this is getting to be really frustrating.


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

2 more died in my 25g... how long after the first treatment I can see improvement? Anyone here?


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

How do you diagnose with a skin scrape??? Do you culture your own bacteria too.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm surprized you haven't received more responses. Not super qualified, but here's whats worked for me...

One tablespoon to 5 gallons is only half of the generally recommended dosing of salt for therapeutic use, at least in livebearer circles.
Increase to _two_ tablespoons per 5 gal (note: only if you have no corys, loaches or other 'scaleless' fish). Remember, guppies can be kept in full sea-water when acclimated properly, so salt at this level won't bother them in the least.

Keep the bottom as free of debris as possible- do a daily low-power vac around plants and 'furniture'. This is hugely important as many nano parasites live off-host during some stage of their life cycle. Keeping the bottom uber clean will reduce the overall load of this type of parasite in the tank.

Given your description of the fin damage, flukes seem unlikely to be the cause.

>>>complete the treatment with Prazipro as recommended on the bottle. If you see no improvement, do a 25 -50% water change (keep dosing salt) and run carbon in the filter for a couple of days to remove any meds in the water. Then try Kordon Ich Attack, which will treat fungus, ich, assorted protozoa and dingflagellates- external micro parasites. Buckshot for bugs.

The Kordon was strongly recommended to me by an accomplished aquarist and discus keeper here on the forum. It is safe for inverts (shrimp, snails).

Also, you need to isolate each tank, even any that seem unaffected. That means washing your hands between tanks (use liquid soap for less skin residue, then rinse like an obsessive) and bleaching tools, towels and containers after use. You need to eliminate any cross contamination between tanks or you'll just end up alternately curing and reinfecting in a repeating loop.

Good luck. It is discouraging when this happens (I know first hand!), but use it as a learning experience.


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

We need a better diagnosis on the fish problem. Without a photo, we are just guessing at what the cause is. This link can help pinpoint the cause of the problem.

FISH DISEASE INDEX & MEDICATIONS FOR FISH DISEASE TREATMENT

From you describing the white patches covering on the fish, sounds like bacterial disorder. maracyn should do the trick.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

EDGE said:


> We need a better diagnosis on the fish problem. Without a photo, we are just guessing at what the cause is. This link can help pinpoint the cause of the problem.
> 
> FISH DISEASE INDEX & MEDICATIONS FOR FISH DISEASE TREATMENT


agreed. I should have stipulated that.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Once you get things under control let me know, i have guppy juveniles and maybe a full grown female that my wife will let me get rid of. Not the best looking, but they are breed stock atleast


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. I know I should've taken some pictures, but I really was not in the mood for that. 

Looking at the Fish Disease index link, although there are other similar symptoms, I think mine is more like the fin and rail rot that actually kills the fish. I will start taking pics when I see something obvious again... will try my best to save those poor little fish. 

And my fry tank of about 60... 75% of the little guys appear sick within just hours.. no noticeable damage yet but all seem weak at the top and some have pointy caudal fin.

Ursus sapien - I've doubled the salt in the tank, that's a good suggestion.
neven - Thanks for your offer, we'll see how this goes.


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## Ursus sapien (Apr 21, 2010)

good luck with it.


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Ok, I've got a picture of sick guppy fry. Some of them have white poop or string coming out, is that a sign of internal parasite or fluke ?


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Here's a "poop chart": Fish Fecal Disorders

Hope your guppies recover.


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Thanks. The chart says to use Paracide-D.. isn't that almost the same as Prazipro? Or is Paracide-D in food form? But the fish are not eating anything...


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

Raspatus is knowledgeable on this stuff, PM him, or call down to an Island pets store and speak to someone in the fish room. Have you figured out what the paracite is?


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

That does look like worm.. Since they are expelling, the prazipro you added is working.

See if it looks anything like this..

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/hospital-section-12/wow-worms-4991/


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Here are two more dying fish in my main tank. The first two pics you can see the right pectoral fin has turned white and half got eaten away... if you look closely the white stuff appears to have spread into the head of the fish. That's how most of the guppies died...
The third pic doesn't show much, but its gill appears to be damaged and opened up...

Edge - I'm not sure cos they're so tiny, but if the poops are not supposed to be white like that than they have to be worms


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

also if you crank up the heat while medicating, it speeds up the life cycle of the parasite, allowing for the medication to work faster. Plus it boosts the metabolism of the guppies. After my guppy tank got ich, i kept the temperature at 29 C for well over a month and the ich disappeared quickly.


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

neven, it's already at 29C since the outbreak... at this rate there would be nothing left after a month... such a scary virus.


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Ok, here... another one just started to rot (lower right corner).... this is how it kills within just a few hours. The Prazipro has not helped at all... can someone please confirm this is fin and tail rot and that I can use one of the following to treat it:

TMP-Sulfa -or- Sulfa 4 TMP -or- Neomycin Sulfate -or- Tetracycline -or- Nitrofurazone.

Help!


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

have you tried melafix and pimafix? They are a good all around medicine/conditioner for bacterial infection.
As well, what is your water parameter?


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

ammonia 0, nitrite 0, pH 7.2, KH 3, GH 8... they should all be fine since I've been doing 50% water changes.

I decided to get a small Melafix bottle, hope I can mix with Prazipro. If it doesn't work I won't spend anymore in this. I am also doing this salt treatment - salt treatment

The Prazipro seems to work on my guppy fry tank though, they appear to be recovering and no more death.

I'll update the result of my salt treatment and Melafix.


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## PeteAce (Oct 23, 2010)

Just a bit of update... Melafix was able to save one of my fish from fin rot, just need to treat it in time. I can say the product works, but it should be used in a hospital tank as it stinks.

However, my root problem has not been solved. The fish are still rubbing against rocks and leaves, most of them have this cloudy looking skin on the body top, their fins are clamped. I'm also on my second day of Kordon Ich Attack as recommended (did 75% WC and cleaned everything) but no improvement so far. The salt and Prazipro have not been too effective.

If it's still not working my next guess would be Maracyn 2 for gram negative bacteria, but I seriously do not want to spend another $20 on this. But I just couldn't just see them die one by one. Who says guppies are for beginners! haha.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

PeteAce said:


> Who says guppies are for beginners! haha.


Exactly. This is a fallacy. In fact guppies are prone to many illnesses. Especially fancy guppies. One possible reason I read for it is generations and generations of genetic selection, that have affected their genetic material. I imagine that the crap they get fed in breeding farms doesn't help either...

Anyway good luck on the road to recovery with this tank.


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