# Water conditioner/water change question



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Just out of curiousity, I would like to hear your comment regarding water change and water conditioner, please.

--Do you add/do not add commercial water conditioner during water change (e.g overdose...etc)?

If yes,

--have you seen your fish die or become very sick because you forgot to add water conditioner?
--do you use the kind that also lock up ammonia and provide slim coat and so on, or just the basic, which brand do you use?
--experienced any problem with water conditioner?

If no, do you...

-- just buy sodium thiosulfate and make your own?
-- collect rain water or use RODI water in your fresh water tank?
-- just use tap water with nothing else?
-- have some kind of filtration system with a carbon filter and/or UV to remove chloride before adding the water in your tank?

Lastly,

--do you believe water conditioner such as Prime can have a negative effect on a planted tank?
--do you belieev adding in-line UV alone is effective in removing all chloride in untreated tap water?

Thank you.


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi, Fish Rookie. I like to use Nutrafin Aqua Plus, although lately I have had a bit of trouble finding it. I've also used Island Pets home brand. Currently, I've got Kordon Nova Aqua Plus. Both of these have additives that supposedly help the fish's slime coats, I think, as well as other things. However, I don't choose these because of their slime coat/immune system claims. (Some also have buffers.) I buy them because they are easy to measure for the small tanks I have. I usually do my water changes using 2 gallon buckets, and my tanks range from nano to 36 gallons.

I also have a bottle of Seachem Prime, and I keep it on hand in case I run out of the other stuff. I think that Prime is an excellent product and that fish probably don't need all the additives that are in some of the other water conditioners. However, Prime is very concentrated. One capful of Prime treats 50 gallons of water (versus 10 for Kordon). I have a lot of difficulty figuring out how much to use for 2 gallons of water and I don't want to dilute it.

I have never experienced any problems with any water conditioner, that I can recall. All of my tanks have been planted for the past few years and I've never had any problems with any of the water conditioners and the plants. However, my tanks are all low tech and easy care.


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## AWW (Apr 22, 2010)

I have a carbon filter on my tap. I still add water conditioner though. As the carbon filter is only hooked up to cold water. 

Never had any issues adding water conditioners.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thank you for the reply. I was doing soem reading on line about chlorine, so I was just wondering.
Since as far as I know our water has no chloramine so we only need to remove chlorine and heavy metal in our water, right?
I also read that using RODI water then adding buffers and conditioner will help a planted tank to grow better and have less algae, but not sure if it is true.
Lastly, also ready that if the chlorine is very diluted (since I live in Richmond and it is far from North Van and Coq where the water comes from) doing less than 50% water chnage the amount of chlorine does nto really matter and it will get removed if you have UV or carbon.
I use the small tiny bottle of prime so I just measure by adding drops (2 drops per gallon) into my water. I personally do not like to add so much chemical into the water plus it can get expensive over time so I am just wondering if it is really necessary...
I know I can sit the water for 24 hours or run an air stone through it to remove the chlorine but the hevay metal probably not. However, if I run my tap for a few minutes first before I fill up my bucket will that help? 
Also, I notice city of richmond sells these 50 gallon buckets with a lid at the recycling depot for like $12 and they are supposed to encourge people to collect rain water to save using tap water. If I keep a big jug of water covered with the KH/GH that I need, without conditioner, in the back, wait a few days and just use those water when I change my water, is that going to be safe? Will the heavy metal precipate to the bottom or something?
How about people who use python do they add water conditioner before running it?
Sorry I guess I may have looked too much into thisLOL...just wondering out of curiosity..
Thanks.


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## Momobobo (Sep 28, 2010)

--Do you add commercial water conditioner during water change (e.g overdose...etc)?
*Yes*

--have you seen your fish die or become very sick because you forgot to add water conditioner?
*Usually not, however once Ive seen my fish becoming incredibly distressed during a water change and I then realized I forgot to put the prime in.*

--do you use the kind that also lock up ammonia and provide slim coat and so on, or just the basic, which brand do you use? 
*I use prime so it does the ammonia lock up as a side perk.*
--experienced any problem with water conditioner?
*Never*

Lastly,

--do you believe water conditioner such as Prime can have a negative effect on a planted tank?
*I wouldnt see any reason why it would*
--do you belieev adding in-line UV alone is effective in removing all chloride in untreated tap water?
*Do UV filters even remove Chlorine? hahah*

Our region uses small enough amounts of Chlorine that you could skip out water conditioner. But during rainy periods the City does add more Chlorine to combat the increased amounts of substrate entering the water so there is a risk.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I forgot to mention I asked if anyone believs prime or products like that can be harmful in a planted tank because I read on the seachem site that they recommend owners of planted tank to use another water conditioner which is meant for planted tank and it contains added potassium. 
I am nto sure why prime could eb bad, may be it is because it is a very strong reducing agent? Would minerals be converted into a form that is not so "liked" by plants, not sure....so, just want to ask you guys here. Thank you.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Momobobo said:


> --do you belieev adding in-line UV alone is effective in removing all chloride in untreated tap water?
> *Do UV filters even remove Chlorine? hahah*


Not sure what the haha is for but thank you for answering anyway.

To answering your question, yes, UV can convert chlorine and chloroamine into easily removed by-products without the addition (and drawback) of bisulphate. It is used in many industries.


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## Ebonbolt (Aug 12, 2011)

I think the recommendation to use another product is simply because Prime lacks potassium, which is a nutrient plants require to grow (the others being phosphorus and nitrogen). I currently use prime, and I've never had any problems with it. I've also used the nutrafin stuff, and it was great as well. I prefer prime though, as it lasted a lot longer than any of the other brands that I've seen. The only bad thing about prime is that dosing it in smaller tanks can be a hassle, but I get around that using a dropper


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

I use chlorine removers but not all of the time. Ive used most brands. Sometimes I forget to add some. Some times I add too much. I have never seen not using it or using too much harm my fish. I was told that depending on where you live the amount of chlorine in your tap water can vary. For example if you live in Coquitlam or Port Coquitlam you live very close to the water reservoir therefor they do not need to add a ton of chemicals because the water isnt travelling in the pipes for as long and the reservoir has good clean water to start. Seems to make sense. If im drinking the tap water I assume its fish safe. It better be. LOL. IMO lots of these products are meant for places with terrible tap water so adding products to remove chlorine is important. We are fortunate to have some of the best water here in BC. 

I currently use Aqua safe and Prime. The thing I like about the Prime is that it removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. It helps with the slime coat and claims to detoxify nitrite and nitrate. Also as mentioned its a higher concentration so you use less of it.

Using an RODI unit on a fresh water tank isnt recomended for BC tap water IMO. You will strip away all the essential elements so you need to add them back into the water afterward. More of a pain. Easier to just use water conditioner. An RODI unit is ideal for saltwater tanks. Its pretty much essential.

I dont see how using any water conditioner products cant hurt your plants. 

I use tap water conditioner after I bleched some wood in my fish tank. I kept getting algea on a piece I found at the river. Someone told me to put it in a bucket with water and bleach. Dump out the bucket fill it with tap water tap water conditioner to de chlorinize the bleach. I tried it although I was worried. It ended up working great. Its been 2 years and not a spec of algea on the log that seemed to grow it so well before.


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

Seachem prime if you buy in the smaller bottle is 2 drops per gallon FYI and i just keep a small bottle on hand and refill it with the big bottles i buy,

And to answer fish rookies question do i use it ... yes sir, do i never use it NOPE , I also have no idea about planted tanks because i dont do plant, on land or in a tank ... green thumb isnt something i can master on either playing field

i dont use anything other than seachem prime, and stability for the first few water changes in a new tank but after that i strictly use prime..

as far as uv sterilizers i have never owned on i cant seem to grasp the concept of how they work and why not having a black light on the tank or sump top wouldnt do the same thing in a tank with masssive turn over you would think uv light on top would do the same ... that being said i have no idea, and i cant be botheres to drop $100 on a mystery , rather buy a new fish ....

I hate that aquaian stuff and im not a fan of tetra anything, so im a hardcore prime fan...

i dunno if this helped at all or if im rambling but my 2 cents are in do with it what you will


Morainy said:


> Hi, Fish Rookie. I like to use Nutrafin Aqua Plus, although lately I have had a bit of trouble finding it. I've also used Island Pets home brand. Currently, I've got Kordon Nova Aqua Plus. Both of these have additives that supposedly help the fish's slime coats, I think, as well as other things. However, I don't choose these because of their slime coat/immune system claims. (Some also have buffers.) I buy them because they are easy to measure for the small tanks I have. I usually do my water changes using 2 gallon buckets, and my tanks range from nano to 36 gallons.
> 
> I also have a bottle of Seachem Prime, and I keep it on hand in case I run out of the other stuff. I think that Prime is an excellent product and that fish probably don't need all the additives that are in some of the other water conditioners. However, Prime is very concentrated. One capful of Prime treats 50 gallons of water (versus 10 for Kordon). I have a lot of difficulty figuring out how much to use for 2 gallons of water and I don't want to dilute it.
> 
> I have never experienced any problems with any water conditioner, that I can recall. All of my tanks have been planted for the past few years and I've never had any problems with any of the water conditioners and the plants. However, my tanks are all low tech and easy care.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

macframalama said:


> as far as uv sterilizers i have never owned on i cant seem to grasp the concept of how they work and why not having a black light on the tank or sump top wouldnt do the same thing in a tank with masssive turn over you would think uv light on top would do the same ... that being said i have no idea, and i cant be botheres to drop $100 on a mystery , rather buy a new fish ....


Black lights have a filter and the wave lengths are longer. They dont effectively kill microorganisms and emit very little light

At certain wavelengths like a UV sterilizers. The light is harmful to humans and other forms of life so having above the tank would be a bad thing. Basically a UV kills microorganisms like ICK and single cell algea.

IMO UV Strilizers are great for koi ponds, overstocked tanks or saltwater tanks. They dont need to be added to every fish tank.


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## rich16 (Mar 25, 2011)

My water changes are with water straight from the tap. I use Prime, every water change, every tank, planted or not. Don't see any issue with it in the planted tanks. I completely forgot to add it one water change, and didn't notice any behaviour issues with any of the fish.

Cheers, 
Rich


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## macframalama (Apr 17, 2012)

thank you that makes sence lol,


jbyoung00008 said:


> Black lights have a filter and the wave lengths are longer. They dont effectively kill microorganisms and emit very little light
> 
> At certain wavelengths like a UV sterilizers. The light is harmful to humans and other forms of life so having above the tank would be a bad thing. Basically a UV kills microorganisms like ICK and single cell algea.
> 
> IMO UV Strilizers are great for koi ponds, overstocked tanks or saltwater tanks. They dont need to be added to every fish tank.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thank you everyone for you input.
About UV from what I undeerrtand it works by breaking down the molecular bonding which in turn converts chlorine and clhoriamione into harmless by product.
Seachem has another conditioner for planted tank which is why I was just wondering.
Has any one tried to use seachem netural buffer which is supposed to remove chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metal while mentaining the Ph at 7 thus making water conditioner redundant?


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

I use seachem neutral buffer on my planted tank. I didnt even realize its removes chlorine and all that other stuff. If you decide to use the Neutral Buffer its supposed to be used with the Acid Buffer 2 to 1. It says it on the bottle. Just a heads up. I think these 2 products are great.


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## gsneufeld (Jan 28, 2012)

I think I can shed a little light here... I get the feeling that the OP is trying to ask if there is a way to keep fish without any water conditioner at all, and the answer is yes. Lots of people in "liquid rock" areas like London England collect their own rain water, then just run it through a carbon filter to get rid of any pollutants. 

Also, there's a reason many fish keepers age their water for 24 hours before adding it to the tank... sitting water evaporates the chlorine naturally making it safe for most fish! So in theory you can go without ever using water conditioner... Just let your water age before using

however for sensitive creatures like dwarf shrimp, I would recommend adding a good water treatment that also binds heavy metals... Studies have been shown that heavy metals that are deadly to shrimp such as copper can also cause brain damage in other fish, so that's something to think about. 

About the planted tank thing, we have very soft water here, and most plants need at least some minerals to grow in our water (in RO water all plants would die and most fish too... pure RO is no good) which is why we add this and that for planted tanks. Doesn't really have anmything to do with water conditioning.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Tap water and prime works for me. I've also used the IPU brand in the pump dispenser. Very convenient and I loved the big volume - pennies per squirt.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

gsneufeld said:


> I think I can shed a little light here... I get the feeling that the OP is trying to ask if there is a way to keep fish without any water conditioner at all, and the answer is yes. Lots of people in "liquid rock" areas like London England collect their own rain water, then just run it through a carbon filter to get rid of any pollutants.
> 
> Also, there's a reason many fish keepers age their water for 24 hours before adding it to the tank... sitting water evaporates the chlorine naturally making it safe for most fish! So in theory you can go without ever using water conditioner... Just let your water age before using
> 
> ...


Thank you very much.
About the RODI thing...
I brough tit up because I was just wondering if these 2 things are the same: RO/DI water + all the work vs tap water + water conditioner + all the work
I just dont believe they could possibly be the same--if you test the TDS I am sure the RO/DI solution is much cleaner. In other words it contains much less junk. You can add all kinds of suppliment you want to get the desired GH, KH, PH, and so on wit RO/DI water.
Wouldn't that be a better solution for plants?
Water conditioner does nto really make tap water cleaner in that sense, does it? That is kind of why I brough ti up.
Just wondering would someone (especially someone with salt water tank) use RODI water with added supplements to get much purer and cleaner water which still give the plantds and fish what they need. Thank you.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I good RO/DI unit will remove virtually everything (that is what a TDS reading of 0 means). 

Water conditioner will do little to lower TDS readings, except maybe bind with certain chemicals and heavy metals. However, if it adds a stress coat for fish, then that would raise your TDS reading, I would imagine. Never tested these hypothesis myself.


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## gsneufeld (Jan 28, 2012)

That's what we're trying to get at... your RO water would be cleaner, clean of the trace amounts of minerals that all living things need to survive. Water without a lot of minerals is the definiton of soft water, which is what most of us have here in BC. People who use R.O. units usually live in areas with hard water, and they want to keep soft water fish. But they have to add trace minerals, or add some of their dechlorinated tap water. Nothing about tap water is "dirty" per se, it just has chlorine added to it to make it drinkable.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Ro water is cleaner but since we have great water here already what is the point of using one unless you have a saltwater tank.. RO units arnt cheap and as mentioned before they remove everything from the water which for a freshwater tank is bad. You will need to add all the trace minerals back into your water. I cant remember whick minerals needed to be added back into it. Im pretty sure equilibrium has most of the ones you need. Its been awhile since I used a RO unit but they will make doing water changes alot slower since the water travelling through the RO unit is supposed to be at a certain speed not too fast. Its outtake hose is small so it takes awhile to fill your tank. If you are after clean pure water than use an RO unit. In my experiences its way easier to use water conditioner. Finding the easiest way to do water changes will make doing them less of a pain and happen more often.


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