# Calling all sump experts! Advice appreciated.



## Sargasso (Apr 21, 2010)

Last night I picked up a wet/dry sump that I plan on using with my 130 gallon bottom drilled acrylic tank. I'd like to have things up and running this weekend.

I've never set up a sump before and I want to do this properly (read: no overflowing if the power goes out! ) I'd really appreciate advice, reading recommendations, and guidance on this one.

Who are the sump experts out there?


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm no expert as I'm just setting up my first sump but the biggest thing to remember is to only fill the tank and sump enough to keep the flow going. Leave as much room as you can so that when you unplug the pump (power outage) there is enough room in the sump to hold all the water that will flow back down into the sump. Once you have it nicely set up and things are smooth, I would mark those water levels so that you know how much water you need to do top ups and for water changes. For my tank, basically the water level was just about half way up the teeth of the overflows, and then in the sump, just enough water to supply the intake to the pump which in my case was right up to underneath my bioball section.


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## Sargasso (Apr 21, 2010)

Good to know, I'll figure out where the water lines should be. I'll have to buy a check valve, pump, and plumbing. Does anyone have any recommendations for where to go for plumbing? What about calculating pump size?


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## bailey (Apr 24, 2010)

if you go to "cichlid forum.com", i think they have the calculators. home depot has a good supply of hard fittings, if you go soft, industrial paints. as for pumps, i have a gen x @ 800 gph and my hob overflow is 1200. i dont know if its the best cuse i bought it off the internet when i was drunk. 

bailey


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Your maximum down flow will depend on two things mainly: size of bulkhead/pipe and size of overflowbox/teeth.

A 1" bulkhead will handle 600gph. In which case, you get a pump rated for around 500-550gph with head loss and you're fine. 

When testing your sump volume, fill up your display and have only a little water in your sump. Mark the water level. Then turn off the pump and see how high the water level in the sump rises. That gives you a rough estimate for how much volume of water you have to compensate for in case of power outage. You can then repeat this test with the sump filled higher, leaving enough empty volume to compensate for the tested volume plus a couple inches extra.

If your return is under water in the display, that becomes your draining point in case of a power outage.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I found Rona to be way better for plumbing parts than HD. If you can't find what you need there, go to wholesalers like Emco. Check valves are ok but don't rely on them to save you from a flood. A properly set up sump should never flood if its designed properly with the right volumes.


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## pacific (Apr 21, 2010)

I would recommend putting a check valve on your return line. It means you don't get any back-siphoning when your pump shuts offs. So gives you more leeway on water levels.

I'm using one of these myself, works great:

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10090+7900+4076&pcatid=4076


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## Sargasso (Apr 21, 2010)

Here's a picture of the sump. It's full of bio-balls as you can see, but I'm not 100% sure what other media to use. I've got some large filter bags, carbon, filter floss etc...


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## gimlid (Apr 23, 2010)

that looks very similar to the one I am settingup for my 180 gallon. the only extra I will have is a layer of floss at the top to grab small particles as kind of a pre filter for the bio balls.
I am going to be running eheim cannister filters also to aid in keeping the water clear.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

You can throw all kinds of stuff in the sump which is what is so great about it. In that baffle in the pic, you can put a foam block in there to trap any particles that get past the top of your sump if you are using filter mat there. I'm going to be putting my heaters in there too. I don't think sumps are that good at mechanical so I'm also using canisters in my setup.


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

pacific said:


> I would recommend putting a check valve on your return line. It means you don't get any back-siphoning when your pump shuts offs. So gives you more leeway on water levels.
> 
> I'm using one of these myself, works great:
> 
> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10090+7900+4076&pcatid=4076


Never, ever trust a check valve. Over time it is almost guaranteed to fail, perhaps not catastrophically, but all it takes is one tiny piece of detritus or a worn out seal to start a leak. Given Murphy's law, that leak will occur when you are on vacation.

It is dead simple to design a sump system that is 100% flood proof simply by having the return outlet at the display's surface thereby minimizing any back siphoning.


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## malibu aka justinking (Apr 26, 2010)

yea check valves fail alot on salt i had one and it did that to me


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## gimlid (Apr 23, 2010)

malibu aka justinking said:


> yea check valves fail alot on salt i had one and it did that to me


take it from a plumber (me) they teach in school that all mechanical devices will eventually fail for any variety of reasons.
I am using the the water level overflow control that others mentioned here.


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## malibu aka justinking (Apr 26, 2010)

gimlid said:


> take it from a plumber (me) they teach in school that all mechanical devices will eventually fail for any variety of reasons.
> I am using the the water level overflow control that others mentioned here.


what shool u go to wouldnt mind looking into it myself


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## gimlid (Apr 23, 2010)

malibu aka justinking said:


> what shool u go to wouldnt mind looking into it myself


Pacific Vocational in Burnaby is where I went. But for pre Apprentice training I think its 6 weeks at BCIT or 2 months at the Plumbers Union Hall in Delta.


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## bailey (Apr 24, 2010)

i think sumps are GREAT for mechanical. in your case, you can have a pre filter before the bio balls. in the compartment before the outlet, you can sandwich course, medium and fine foam as filter media. remember to leave room for an overflow incase of clogging. after your return pump you can add a canister like red sea or ocean clear with a 300 micron paper filter. cant get better mechanical than that IMO.

bailey


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## cowis (Apr 21, 2010)

i was told that u put a filter pad or filter floss in the top little slit were the water first goes in. that traps all the bigger junk befor the bioballs.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

cowis said:


> i was told that u put a filter pad or filter floss in the top little slit were the water first goes in. that traps all the bigger junk befor the bioballs.


Yes, a filter mat before the bioballs works well. After that you can further supplement the mechanical. Filter mat is super easy to clean/ swap out too.


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## gimlid (Apr 23, 2010)

does anyone use the filter "sock" type of mechanical filter before the bio balls? I have seen them in use in some photos.
I'm curious if it works better than a floss mat.


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## fkshiu (Apr 22, 2010)

gimlid said:


> does anyone use the filter "sock" type of mechanical filter before the bio balls? I have seen them in use in some photos.
> I'm curious if it works better than a floss mat.


Same idea as floss, but socks are also washable and reuseable. I used to rotate three socks for my sump.


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## bailey (Apr 24, 2010)

forgive me if im wrong, but cant you reuse floss mats. are they not washable. i have floss in my sump, but i dont rotate them. i just wash then in the sink and put them right back in. if energetic, the garden hose does a better job.

bailey


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

I looked for a hint but I am assuming this is for a freshwater aquarium? If so I agree that an ocean clear canister is ideal for mechanical filtration and can be run in line after the pump on the way back to the aquarium. This is the same filtration on our 265 barb aquarium in Richmond. We also utilize a UV and there is a sponge block in the sump to prevent air bubbles mostly. Most particles will wash through the bio balls so trapping it after is less messy. If you have floss on top of the drip plate, you can experience small amounts of splash down the unit. Also changing the floss is always messy. Another option is pre-filtering in your overflow depending on your set up, as long as you change it regularly.


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## DAN O (Apr 21, 2010)

lam using a course sponge in the drip tray, and a filter sock cut to lay on top of the bio balls. Works great traps all the fine waste before it gets to the bio balls. Water stays crystal clean...


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey Tony here is a pretty neat tank and sump set up . Hope this helps..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...-180g-planted-discus-journal-updated-3-a.html


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## couch (Apr 22, 2010)

So what did you end up doing? Could you post up photos? I have the exact same sump as you and I am in the process of setting it up.

Thanks, Rich



Sargasso said:


> Last night I picked up a wet/dry sump that I plan on using with my 130 gallon bottom drilled acrylic tank. I'd like to have things up and running this weekend.
> 
> I've never set up a sump before and I want to do this properly (read: no overflowing if the power goes out! ) I'd really appreciate advice, reading recommendations, and guidance on this one.
> 
> Who are the sump experts out there?


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