# My 48G Vicenza - Aug 18 - final update



## crazy72

Ok so here we go for my 2nd tank journal. I bought this tank from Stuart about a year ago. Nice bow-front with an XP3. I set it up in my home office. I wanted to breed fish with interesting parenting behaviour for my kids to enjoy. I decided on kribs.

The tank when I first set it up. Low tech, pretty busy scape, especially on one side. 










So I got some kribs from Aq West and Roger's. And breed they did! 










The kribs stayed in there for many months. In the usual way with all my tanks, some plants did well and some didn't. Some pics over time.



















Some time last summer I decided to simplify the scape. I also moved the kribs out into my 33 Long, and put a few hatchet fish in the Vicenza, together with some Bolivian rams. I can't see the rams in this pic, which is very unlike them, so my guess is they weren't there yet.










I missed the rams too much in my main CT in the living room so they were moved back in. The Vicenza got a short stint with Apisto Agassizi. I lowered the water level at some point to make the hatchet fish happy.










At that point I decided that I didn't see enough of this tank (even when I'm down in my home office I turn my back to it). I have nowhere else to put it without jeopardizing my common-law relationship, and I didn't really find anything that I wanted to do with it to justify the maintenance and everything. So I made the decision that I was going to shut it down. I used it for a couple of months to grow out some kribs that didn't fit in my 33 Long and that I wasn't allowed to keep in the kitchen sink, and that was it, I was going to shut it down.

Then, about 2 weeks ago, I visited .... someone ... someone who is a sponsor on this site, to buy some equipment for my 60G tank. And as it turned out, this someone is a wickedly dangerous guy to visit. 

So yep, you guessed it, I found what it was that I wanted to do with this tank. Exciting enough to justify keeping it. Because the tank had only seen a very light bioload over the last few months I decided to start a new fishless cycle. And go bare bottom (the tank, I mean ) for the first time ever. I also removed the internal tubing because I found the XP3 was a little less noisy with external tubing (likely not enough flow through the internal tubing, as Gordon suggested just tonight). Keeping the water level lower to accelerate the cycle.

With flash:










Without:










It's been 10 days now and it looks like the cycle might be done very soon. Really excited!

So what is it that's going to go in here? And who is the wickedly dangerous person to visit? Well stay tuned... 

Thanks for looking.


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## 2wheelsx2

Nice, very nice. I visited this dangerous person today too and came away with too many things......can't wait to see what you do with it.


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## crazy72

Thanks Gary. Yes, I can't wait either.

This cycle is interesting actually. The ammonia isn't completely down yet, but it's way lower than it was, but I still have no nitrites whatsoever, and nitrates are through the roof. I take that it's because I seeded the filter with media from another tank, and I guess the nitrifying bacteria were up to the task whereas the other ones (which Wikipedia tells me are called nitrosifyers  ) were couldn't quite handle the huge spike in ammonia (my other tank has a fairly light bioload).

Anyway. Drum drum drum...


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## 2wheelsx2

Yep, seeding it is the best way to go.


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## crazy72

Update: the pH crashed and the cycle stalled. Large water change in the works for today... 

I was hoping I could stock it today. Too bad.


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## 2wheelsx2

Sorry to hear that Franck. Are you using any GH boosters in your water? That might help a bit, along with an alkaline buffer of some sort?


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## crazy72

Thanks Gary. No I don't add anything. I know I should. I just do it the reactive way (no pun intended), testing the pH regularly and doing water changes if needed. But this week things were too busy and I got lazy.

But it's not a big problem, really. It's just a short delay. It's not that I need to start all over again. The only snag is that it makes me miss a sale on the fish (yes, the dangerous person had a sale on until today  ). In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. We're not talking about a colony of blue-eye panaques here.


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## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...that's true. You might want to consider getting just some Epsom salts and plaster of Paris to raise you Mg and Ca levels after a water change. I'm sure your fish will thank you for it. Mine seem to be a lot happier since I started doing that a couple of years ago, but then that's also when I started with the massive water changes also.


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## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> You might want to consider getting just some Epsom salts and plaster of Paris to raise you Mg and Ca levels after a water change.


What kind of concentration do you use these at?


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## 2wheelsx2

I found this to be a pretty good calculator for dosing: Yet Another Nutrient Calculator


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## crazy72

Gary you're the source of all knowledge. 

Thanks. I'll give this a try.


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## crazy72

Update. :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:


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## 2wheelsx2

Sweet, are you going to get the fist today?


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## crazy72

I don't think so. I won't have time tonight. Plus I want to add a powerhead to the tank before I add the fish. I hear these fish like well oxygenated water. 

Perhaps tomorrow.


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## crazy72

Added Maxi-Jet 1200, removed air stone. Getting ready...


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## crazy72

By the way, I forgot to mention: thanks to Kameko (Grete_J) who picked up the Maxi-Jet for me from J&L as they have a sale on them at the moment. Random acts of kindness are another thing I love this forum for.


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## crazy72

Hint hint. 

Many thanks to Gary for dropping off two caves today, although he's getting ready for a business trip! Amazing guy.


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## crazy72

So exciting! Here they are, still in the bag. Thanks Charles!










Plus a few goodies to add colour and movement to the tank.










Floating...



















Now everyone is in. Surprisingly (to me) the caves are not being used yet.










A couple of close-ups. No good quality. Even I can do better, but I wanted to leave them alone and not spend too much time too close to the glass.



















I hope everyone will settle in nicely and be happy thereafter.


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## jobber

nice pick ups franck. 
glad you were able to find the temp caves.
they look so much at home. the colours have already darkened.


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## 2wheelsx2

Looking good Franck. I'll have to come in person to see it when I get back in a week.


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## Keri

Beautiful plecos!


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## Morainy

I'm very curious and intrigued by your journal, Franck. Who is the person here who is dangerous to visit? (Hoping to visit, of course) I can't wait to see what your plans are for this tank. Thanks for keeping the journal. It's so much better to follow along like this than to read just one post about it.


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## crazy72

Thank you all for the comments. It makes it worthwhile to take the time to post.

Gary, I would love to show it to you in person. You're welcome to come any time.

Maureen, the dangerous person to visit is Charles. Not only because he has such nice and interesting fish, but also because he's so passionate and knowledgeable about them. He takes the time to explain things to his customers and that makes purchases so hard to resist. Beware! 

The plecos looked much more comfortable this morning. Two caves were occupied and the other plecos were under or behind the stump. They even munched a bit on some zucchini during the night. It was reassuring to see them like this instead of seemingly stunned in the open as they were yesterday. I'll try to take and post a few pics tonight.


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## crazy72

Ok, quick update from after 3 days. 3 caves are now occupied. The other 3 plecos (females, if the theory holds) are under the stump or behind one of the caves. They ate a few algae wafers in last night. Everyone seems ok so far.

The other thing is I had forgotten how much I love cardinals. They are just gorgeous in a school. We'll see how things go over the next couple of months but I might get more eventually.

A few pics.




























And indisputable proof that they did eat the wafers.


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## crazy72

Ok I finally got around to taking a few pics of the new Hamilton LEDs that I picked up from J&L over the week-end. I just absolutely love them. I think they look amazing, and they are certainly contributing to making this tank my favourite one at the moment.

First pic shows them with the front part of the top open. I put 2 32" strips (one white and one blue) under the middle part, where the regular bulbs were (I removed them) and one 20" strip under the rear part.










This is the rear part of the top being lifted.










The tank with all 3 strips on:










And a weak attempt at a moonlight pic. I'm really not good with a camera and these pics really don't do it justice. I find it looks beautiful in person. And the plecos do come out under the moonlights. If they last long (the lights, not the plecos ) as they're supposed to I'll be delighted with my purchase. Despite the fairly steep price.



















Let's have a quizz here: what are these long thin lines to the right of the tank on the two moonlight pics? 

In other news, everyone seems to be doing well. Three caves are taken still, and the other 3 plecos are under the stump. I did a water change today and a couple of the plecos came out for that. More caves coming soon, including a condo...


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## effox

Looks really great, just watch for algae growth with the brightness of that moonlight. I had a cold cathode tube in mine with about the same illumination and I suffered from algae as a result.


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## crazy72

Oh really? Humm they're advertised specifically as not encouraging algae growth but I'll certainly keep an eye on that. Thanks for the heads-up.


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## 2wheelsx2

Very nice Franck. How many hours are you leaving the white ones on? I can't imagine being able to grow anything with those moonlights, but then I haven't put the Hamilton ones on a tank; I'm just basing this on my DA moonlights, which is barely brighter than a flashlight.


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## jobber

crazy72 said:


> Ok I finally got around to taking a few pics of the new Hamilton LEDs that I picked up from J&L over the week-end. I just absolutely love them. I think they look amazing, and they are certainly contributing to making this tank my favourite one at the moment.
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> And a weak attempt at a moonlight pic. I'm really not good with a camera and these pics really don't do it justice. I find it looks beautiful in person. And the plecos do come out under the moonlights. If they last long (the lights, not the plecos ) as they're supposed to I'll be delighted with my purchase. Despite the fairly steep price.
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> In other news, everyone seems to be doing well. Three caves are taken still, and the other 3 plecos are under the stump. I did a water change today and a couple of the plecos came out for that. More caves coming soon, including a condo...


new toys already? that's a bright moonlight. hopefully it'll spur some moonlighting behaviours etc etc 
saw the colony that the L201's came from. gorgeous colours on them. deep black and yellow spots. great pickups.
more goodies hopefully arriving by friday.


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## crazy72

I have the whites on from about 4pm to about 9pm. And the moonlights from about 7pm to about 11pm.


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## crazy72

jobber604 said:


> new toys already? that's a bright moonlight. hopefully it'll spur some moonlighting behaviours etc etc
> saw the colony that the L201's came from. gorgeous colours on them. deep black and yellow spots. great pickups.
> more goodies hopefully arriving by friday.


Thanks Ming. Yes, it's certainly part of the idea to spur some moonlighting behaviour. 

Yeah the plecos are really beautiful. The spots are so bright. I love 'em!


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## Morainy

Beautiful!

You asked what the thin white lines are on the right side in the moonlight pictures. Could they be your cardinals, on the move? The camera taking its pic slowly because it's dark, and the cardinals reflecting the moonlights? Like lines of traffic?


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## crazy72

Morainy said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> You asked what the thin white lines are on the right side in the moonlight pictures. Could they be your cardinals, on the move? The camera taking its pic slowly because it's dark, and the cardinals reflecting the moonlights? Like lines of traffic?


Thanks Maureen.

Yup, bingo! The cardinals zooming by. Like lines of traffic as you say. You win a user account at BC Aquaria.


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## crazy72

I'm watching the plecos with the moonlights on as I type. Complete darkness in the room otherwise. I feed them every night before the day lights go off, so they come out to eat relatively soon after the lights go off. It's quite amazing to see how much activity there is in the tank when they come out. They are not at all the calm and slow fish that you might imagine them to be based on their day-time behaviour. They actually move around very vigorously, chasing each other at times. Looks like there's some territorial behaviour going on. They're really fast and strong.

Anyway, the main conclusion is: moonlights are great! Especially for pleco keepers.


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## jobber

moonlights looking good. so will some corner condo and hiding spots 
processing in RICHMOND. it says 
awaiting delivery.


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## crazy72

The permanent digs have arrived. Thanks a lot Ming! So today, out with Gary's loaner caves (thanks again Gary) and in with the new ones. Two caves and a condo.

Tank pic:










The new caves were occupied in no time.



















Other random shots:




























In other news, or maybe lack thereof, I'm pretty sure I saw two of them in the same cave tonight. I zoomed upstairs to grab my camera, but when I came back down it was gone. Only one of them left in the cave. Maybe I dreamed it, but I'm 90% sure I didn't. Anyway, at least it got me excited for a while.


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## 2wheelsx2

Looking good Franck. I guess you're keeping it to one piece of wood since you want to actually see the plecos?


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## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> Looking good Franck. I guess you're keeping it to one piece of wood since you want to actually see the plecos?


Yes, the one centre piece only. I had a manzanita branch across at the beginning, but I moved it to my 33 today. I do see a bit more of the plecos like this, and also I just like it better. Nice and simple. I think it works well with the bow front shape too.


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## crazy72

Ok, pleco gurus, I have a question for you. I am again looking at my tank with moonlights on, and the room is dark otherwise. Two of the plecos are making a serious racket at the entrance of one of the caves. One of them is basically in the cave, with only the tail coming out, and the other one is pushing and shoving his/her way in. Very energetic behaviour. Could it be what I'm thinking it might be, or is this more in the territorial behaviour bag? There are other caves that are available, but then who know this one might be more desirable because of water flow or something else. Any guesses?


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## jobber

seems to be indication and signs of pleco love 
the dark base colour on the fish are beautiful. 
charles wasn't kidding. 

I'm snickering right now to see so much poop in the tank already.


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## crazy72

I spent some time watching a few videos of plecos mating and others of plecos fighting for space last night. Not clear to me which of the two was happening in front of this cave. I'll keep an eye on it.

As to the amount of poop, yes it's quite impressive. Mind you, you should see the amount of zucchini they go through! I'm glad about this though. It's good that they eat lots. The few that I see against the glass at night seem to have nice round bellies so that's good.

It's so funny sometimes during the day you see one that's perfectly still in his cave, and then he starts to wriggle for about 10 seconds, and all of a sudden this huge poop comes out of the cave. Then the fish is still again, and you can just picture the deep satisfaction  . But having the tank bare bottom makes the cleaning really easy. That was part of the idea, and I'm really glad I did it that way.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yeah, when you feed zuchs, the amount is impressive. I only feed that as a treat now, and usually feed yams, which are equally impressive because it's orange. But the poop is denser and easier to vacuum up as it settles more readily. I only give them veggies 2 - 3 times a week max. The rest of the time they just get a bit of the leftovers from whatever the geos and big cichlids don't get. Keeps them nice and fat but no bloat problems and tank relatively poop free (I usually feed the night before a big water change).


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## crazy72

I've been feeding them zucchinis every second day, alternating with algae wafers. Charles pointed out that even though hypans tolerate a more meaty diet than other plecos, they don't actually need a lot of proteins. They do eat the left overs from the cardinals. 

I've been planning to start them on yam, yes. I went the safe route so far to make sure they would eat well to help them acclimatize. It's been nearly two weeks now so it's time for them and me to get to know each other a little better.


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## 2wheelsx2

Hahaha...you'll be seeing the orange snowstorm soon then. They fatten up on yams pretty quick and yes a lot of people think Hypans eat nothing but meat, but I found out when I first got the L066 and they destroyed my Bacopa in short order that they like plant matter.


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## jobber

crazy72 said:


> The permanent digs have arrived. Thanks a lot Ming! So today, out with Gary's loaner caves (thanks again Gary) and in with the new ones. Two caves and a condo.
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would the orange yamstorm be that bad? it appears these L201s are not as shy.


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## crazy72

Just posted this in the hospital section. http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/hospital-section-12/whitish-patch-pleco-14397/#post122714

Any ideas?


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## jobber

From what you've observed yesterday and the marks. I'm guessing maybe battle scars from cave scrapping. 
Plecoholics, anyone?


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## crazy72

Thanks Ming. Lots of reassuring answers from the pleco gurus on the hospital section thread too. What a great forum.


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## crazy72

A quick update on Mr/Mrs injured. I don't see much of a difference compared to yesterday, which is probably a good thing. It doesn't see to be getting worse or getting infected or anything.










I did a 50% water change today, and cleaned the filter for the first time since they're in (2 weeks). The first filter pad above in the mechanical filter media basket was amazingly dirty. As dirty as in gets in at least twice the time in my community tank. Typical vegetarians eh. I understand, I am a vegetarian too. 

In other news, looks the downstairs has no vacancy any more...










... and getting ready for the orange storm.


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## crazy72

I managed to take a couple of close-ups of one of the plecos working on zucchini tonight. The zucchini was so bright because of the flash in the original pics that I had to crop them to reduce the effect. This is as good as I got them.



















In other news, there is definitely some territorial activity going on. After a few quieter evenings (no significant thrashing or anything under the moonlights), I moved a few caves around yesterday. I could see that the change disturbed them (they didn't come out to feed before the day lights came off for instance) and later in the evening I observed major thrashing in front of one cave. It looked like the move and different water flow around the caves had changed the ranking of the caves and they were fighting for the new best one. That's how I interpreted it at least. I'm not yet completely fluent in pleco body language.


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## jobber

Those gold spots are very deep coloured.
How's the upkeep in water changes


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## CRS Fan

Looking very nice Franck. I'm scared of plecos..... I might get the bug AND they are not that plant friendly I've found. I was tempted to pick up some Panaque changae at April's BUT luckily logic took over and I'm pleco free. Well..... not exactly.... I do have some L10a. I also have 5 zebra ottos, and some regular ottos. These guys leave my plants alone.... but my Amanos don't .

Best regards,

Stuart


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## 2wheelsx2

CRS Fan said:


> Looking very nice Franck. I'm scared of plecos..... I might get the bug AND they are not that plant friendly I've found.


Absolutely true. No matter how much you feed them and what kind of plecos you get, the softer plants WILL get eaten. Noticed that my planted setups have gotten simpler and simpler? The plecos do a job on the soft stuff. S. repens? Wouldn't last a week. All mine are stripped down to the stem. Unless you have them in a 180 and grow them as fast and as many as Tom Barr (I like he has L14 in that tank), forget it.


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## crazy72

Thanks guys for the comments.



jobber604 said:


> Those gold spots are very deep coloured.
> How's the upkeep in water changes


Hey Ming. Yes, actually my crappy pics don't give them justice. They really are nicely coloured. The tails are, at least, since this is mostly what I can see of them. 



CRS Fan said:


> Looking very nice Franck. I'm scared of plecos..... I might get the bug AND they are not that plant friendly I've found. I was tempted to pick up some Panaque changae at April's BUT luckily logic took over and I'm pleco free. Well..... not exactly.... I do have some L10a. I also have 5 zebra ottos, and some regular ottos. These guys leave my plants alone.... but my Amanos don't .
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart


Yes Stuart, I hear you completely. And to be honest I think you're doing such an amazing job with your plants that it's just as well if you don't go into plecos. For me it's different of course. Plecos don't really make a difference for me. I can't grow anything much anyway.


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## crazy72

This is it. No vacancy.


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## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> This is it. No vacancy.


Did you train them to do that by putting magnets in them 
Looks GREAT, Franck.


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## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> Did you train them to do that by putting magnets in them
> Looks GREAT, Franck.


Yep. The next trick that I'm working on involves hoops and underwater fire.


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## jobber

crazy72 said:


> This is it. No vacancy.


wow, you got some fatties in there. soooon......


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## crazy72

jobber604 said:


> wow, you got some fatties in there. soooon......


We'll see about that. But yes, they're not slim, for sure. And they're strong too. The chasing around that goes on at night under the moonlights is pretty impressive.

Today one one of them had a poop coming all the way out of the cave and along the side. The thing must have been longer than the fish. I was too lazy to go grab my camera, but in hindsight I wish I had. Anyway, this one at least clearly had enough to eat lately.


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## jobber

what have you been feeding them?


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## crazy72

jobber604 said:


> what have you been feeding them?


A variety of vegetables, usually every other night or so. Zucchini, yam, sweet potato, cucumber. Even chard, that they seemed to like actually, judging by the state of it the following morning. And algae wafers the other nights, pretty much.

Plus I feed the neons in the evening so they also come out and eat some left overs from that. Flakes, NLS pellets, and frozen bloodworms occasionally (once a week perhaps).


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## jobber

that's a good range of diet they're getting. spoiling them 
i'm going to feed cantaloupe, honeydew, and watermelon rind once i get my hands on some during the summer


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## Luke78

Thats some diet you have them on.I cant get my BNP to eat veggies, he consumes everything else i put in.I like the pleco hotel you have there, must be interesting to see all of them pop out come feeding time.

Luke



crazy72 said:


> A variety of vegetables, usually every other night or so. Zucchini, yam, sweet potato, cucumber. Even chard, that they seemed to like actually, judging by the state of it the following morning. And algae wafers the other nights, pretty much.
> 
> Plus I feed the neons in the evening so they also come out and eat some left overs from that. Flakes, NLS pellets, and frozen bloodworms occasionally (once a week perhaps).


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## crazy72

Luke78 said:


> Thats some diet you have them on.I cant get my BNP to eat veggies, he consumes everything else i put in.I like the pleco hotel you have there, must be interesting to see all of them pop out come feeding time.
> 
> Luke


Thanks. Yes they are good eaters. But it happens mostly at night. They're still a bit shy and don't come out too much to eat if I'm in the room, although they're gradually getting better at it. It's funny actually because I soon as I drop the food for the cardinals (and turn off the filter otherwise it all flies away because of the bare bottom), you see a couple of them slowly wiggle their way out of the cave. But most of the time, as soon as the head is out, they can see me so they zoom back in. It's only after a few back-and-forth moves that they finally find the courage (or the hunger) to come out anyway.


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## 2wheelsx2

If you put in some live blackworm you'll see them for sure.


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## Luke78

I have yet to see a blackworm go uneaten in my setup Looks like the game Hungry Hungry Hippos in my aquarium when i feed blackworms.Back on topic,i actually picked up one of these guys and i must say they have an interesting colour and spot pattern to them.I had intentions on geting a L199 but charles sold the last few.According to him i got a male so we shall see how the other two (L46/BNP) take to him , theres plenty of space.


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## crazy72

Yes their colouration is really nice. I'm seriously considering moving my white sand from the 33 Long into this tank actually, because they would stand out more against the white sand than they do now against the bare bottom. Also the tank is in a rather dark room and I can't see much at all unless the lights are on.

The only drawback, I think, is that it wouldn't be as easy to clean...


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## 2wheelsx2

Franck, in a pleco tank, sand is very very easy to clean since the fish love flow. Set up the flow with your powerheads such that everything is driven to one spot and clean that area only. Done. Way easier than a tank with low flow because the fish don't like it, where the debris is scattered all over the tank. Since I converted my 125 to mostly a pleco tank I now only gravel for like 2 minutes in one small area since everything is blown over there.


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## crazy72

Thanks Gary. Yes, I've been trying to do that with the bare bottom already, but haven't been very successful. I think it's because the cave condo and the stump break the flow and crap gets stuck there. But maybe it would actually be easier with sand because with bare bottom everything flies off all too easily.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yep, I noticed that the poop is flying around all over the place in Charles' tank and actually requires more maintenance than in my substrates, which keeps the stuff down. But the Charles has a higher bioload than your average tank and he does a lot more water changes.


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## jobber

+1 to gary's recommendation. I only have flow coming from my xp4 on the right side of the tank. The intake is beside the outflow tube. All the yuckies collect near the surface of the sand near the in take.

I think the condo is spreading the water flow as it is in the middle of the tank. If you place the condo to the back left side corner of the tank, you may be able to see a significant difference where the detritus/poop collects.

I was cleaning my sand as though it was gravel yesterday. Thank goodness for the python 

You could sprinkle a thin layer of white sand if you feel it may be hard to clean.


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## crazy72

Thanks Ming. Yes, I did have the condo to the left for a week or so actually, and all the poop accumulated right behind it, so I moved it back to the centre. But I've also moved my spray bar since, so I should probably try that again.


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## 2wheelsx2

Since the tank is fairly long, you may have to direct a powerhead at that spot behind the condo to push the debris back out to the main part of the tank so that the main flow can affect the material.


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## target

Nice looking plecos, big and fat.


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## crazy72

target said:


> Nice looking plecos, big and fat.


Thanks Daniel. I see in your signature that you have some L201s too. How many? I haven't gone through your 90G journal recently. I will.


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## crazy72

I just entered this pic into the tank photography contest so I thought I might as well update the tank journal with it.










Not much news about the tank otherwise. Everyone seems to be doing well and the cardinals are growing. I'm planning to add white sand from my 33 Long at some point, but I haven't found the time yet.


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## crazy72

I finally got around to moving the white sand from the 33G to the 48G this week. I also removed the pleco condo after reading online that some pleco breeder recommend to have only as many caves as you have males to trigger more impromptu meetings between the guys and the gals...

Front view:









Side view:









The stomp in the middle looks nicer now because it contrasts with the sand:









Of course the change wrecked havoc in there and I fully expect territorial fights over the next couple of nights. But it gave me the opportunity to see more of the little guys than just their tails. 










The whole idea was to make the tank brighter because it's in a rather dark room, and that worked beyond my expectations. It's a lot brighter with the moonlights on too:










So I'm glad I did it. Well worth the couple of hours.


----------



## jobber

that white sand contrasts well with the driftwood but more so with the fish.


----------



## Luke78

The white sand is a great addition to that setup.This is just me, but if i was doing the same thing as you, i would add more stumps or other driftwood and litter the whole aquarium with almond leaves.Maybe a few stones or rocks here and there.


----------



## monkE

great idea Luke, almond leaves littered around would look great. 

Love the look of the white sand Crazy!


----------



## CRS Fan

Quite the contrast now Franck! Now to add some plants !

Best Regards,

Stuart


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Luke78 said:


> The white sand is a great addition to that setup.This is just me, but if i was doing the same thing as you, i would add more stumps or other driftwood and litter the whole aquarium with almond leaves.Maybe a few stones or rocks here and there.


I would agree with the stones. Mine really love hiding under and around the stones as it gives them opportunity to sit in the current eddies. Also some contrasting colour stones would offset all that white. That's what I tried to do with the scape in my cube.


----------



## crazy72

Thanks everyone for the comments. I agree. It's a lot of white in there and it would probably be a good thing to break it up a bit with stones, wood, slates, or almond leaves indeed. I think that it's been so black in there up until this that I'm quite happy with a lot of white for a while . But I'll probably follow your advice at some point. I appreciate the suggestions.


----------



## `GhostDogg´

I really like the white sand!!!
I'm guessing it's a lot easier to see the poop now.


----------



## crazy72

`GhostDogg´ said:


> I really like the white sand!!!
> I'm guessing it's a lot easier to see the poop now.


Thanks. Yup, easier to see the poop for sure. I'm still debating whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.


----------



## `GhostDogg´

You'll never avoid poop if you have any plecos around. 
:lol:


----------



## jobber

I've finally know what you mean about the poop. 
I see the poop fest after the food fest.
Are the L201s more visible since there's only the 3 caves avaliable?
The simplicity of the 'scape still looks natural, especially with that almond leaf


----------



## crazy72

Thanks Ming. Yes, the L201s are definitely a lot more visible now with fewer caves. Well, half of them, that is.


----------



## crazy72

Quick update: I'm shutting down this tank and my 33 Long, so the plecos are up for sale. Check out the classifieds. The equipment will also be up for sale, but only when the fish are gone...


----------



## crazy72

Well, long time no update. As the previous post says, this tank actually went up for sale for a couple of weeks. I sold the plecos but the tank didn't go quickly, probably because it's a rather expensive setup. Anyway, once I didn't have the plecos in it, only the cardinals, I realised that it was virtually maintenance free! I also realised how much I love cardinals, and how great they look in there, probably because of the cold, nearly metallic light from the Hamilton LEDs. Anyway, I decided to keep it for a little longer. So off of the classifieds! I reused some old stumps that I had, I bought a few more cardinals from Charles, and voila.










The maintenance is so light. I did a w/c today and cleaned the filter for the first time in about 3 weeks (crazy times at work...). Well it was perfectly clean inside. And I mean perfectly clean. The plecos used to mess it up way more in about ... a day maybe. 

Anyway, I hope you like it.


----------



## Chappy

That's gotta be record time for someone to get back into the hobby after leaving it 

I think the tank looks GREAT and will only keep looking better. Glad to see it running


----------



## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> That's gotta be record time for someone to get back into the hobby after leaving it
> 
> I think the tank looks GREAT and will only keep looking better. Glad to see it running


Thanks Shelley. Yes, this reminds me of Churchill saying "Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it at least 10 times".


----------



## Luke78

Iam liking the layout.Beautiful stumps of wood,that blend in well with the white sand.You cant quite leave yet this is a keeper!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Looks great Franck. Now that the plecos are out, I'd remove the maxijet to clear up the space as you no longer need that flow.

Tank with just tetras is so peaceful and low maintenance. Wish I could resist putting plecos in everything.


----------



## crazy72

Thanks guys for the comments. Yes, Gary you have a good point about the Maxijet. With the Rena inline heater and the spraybar at the water surface, the MaxiJet is the only piece of equipment that's really obvious to the eye in this tank. And I certainly don't need to flow any more. The only thing is that I'm a little weary about is a lack of oxygen in this tank since the top is tightly covered. The Maxijet is great for that with the venturi. But I guess with a bit of surface agitation from the spraybar the way I have it there's probably enough oxygen...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

If you are concerned, just raise the spraybar up a bit or rotate the bar so the holes point slightly upwards to cause a constant strong ripple and that would be as good as the venturi on your MJ. Your fish load is so light, and you no longer have highly rheophilic fishes in there (the plecos).


----------



## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> If you are concerned, just raise the spraybar up a bit or rotate the bar so the holes point slightly upwards to cause a constant strong ripple and that would be as good as the venturi on your MJ. Your fish load is so light, and you no longer have highly rheophilic fishes in there (the plecos).


Yes, this is how I have it already. You can see the air bubbles on the last pic I posted. Yeah I guess that's probably enough O2 for these guys. Thanks for the suggestion anyway. I'll probably give it a try, and keep a close eye on them for a few days.

"Rheophillic", eh? New word for me. Nice one, too.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> Yes, this is how I have it already. You can see the air bubbles on the last pic I posted. Yeah I guess that's probably enough O2 for these guys. Thanks for the suggestion anyway. I'll probably give it a try, and keep a close eye on them for a few days.
> 
> "Rheophillic", eh? New word for me. Nice one, too.


You're all set then.

Yes, blame it on Planetcatfish and Ming's L numbered Catfish book.


----------



## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> Yes, blame it on Planetcatfish and Ming's L numbered Catfish book.


I like new words actually. This one I'm not sure I'll use it with people I don't know well though, in case they think it's an insult.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> I like new words actually. This one I'm not sure I'll use it with people I don't know well though, in case they think it's an insult.


Me, too. Especially when the word describes what I want to say exactly. But you're right, this one may raise eyebrows.


----------



## jobber

crazy72 said:


>


Like the new wood placements. I'm really beginning to like the simple setups. No water changes for months


----------



## Chappy

Is it just me or can I see a group of discus in there  Sorry, Franck - I just couldn't help myself


----------



## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> Is it just me or can I see a group of discus in there  Sorry, Franck - I just couldn't help myself


It's just you.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Franck said low maintenance, not reduced free time.  I figure with that load in there, you should be able to get away with one water change every 2 weeks or maybe even a month. If you put some java fern in, it'll definitely be a month.


----------



## crazy72

Yes I did 3 weeks this time. And that's fine really. A quick w/c every couple of weeks is no problem (I'm not THAT busy otherwise I wouldn't be posting on here ).

Jave fern is a possibility yes, it did cross my mind. But I'm enjoying it the way it is at the moment so I'll leave it at that for a while. Minus the Maxijet, that is.


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> It's just you.


Reeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyy??????!!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

My...what big cardinals you have!


----------



## hlee72ca

-N/A- said:


> Reeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyy??????!!


Which side is the Capulets? and which side is the Montagues?


----------



## Chappy

hlee72ca said:


> Which side is the Capulets? and which side is the Montagues?


Interesting......I was thinking more along the lines of West Side Story with the Jets and the Sharks....."When you're a Shark...."
Didn't instantly see the Shakespeare connection......NICELY done :bigsmile:


----------



## crazy72

Ha ha you guys crack me up. :lol:

Shelley I believe the last you did this was for Gary's cube, no? You won that battle but let me tell you right now, you won't win this one. The only way you have to ever see discuss in this tank in this house is to agree to come and do the maintenance yourself. And pay the hydro bill for the higher temp. And explain to me the Shakespeare connection, while you're here doing a w/c.


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> Ha ha you guys crack me up. :lol:
> 
> Shelley I believe the last you did this was for Gary's cube, no? You won that battle but let me tell you right now, you won't win this one. The only way you have to ever see discuss in this tank in this house is to agree to come and do the maintenance yourself. And pay the hydro bill for the higher temp. And explain to me the Shakespeare connection, while you're here doing a w/c.


Ah, you blew it Franck - you SHOULD have asked me to do a dance number from West Side Story - at least belt out a song or two 

If you remember correctly, I DID post a shopped photo of Gary's cube, BUT again if you remember it was the EXACT same fish he ended up adding to his tank. Coincidence? I think NOT!!!! Your fish are currently at boot camp where they are learning to stay on their own side of the tank and stare the other guys down into submission - it may take some time yet  Mark my words, it's not a matter of "if", it's "when"!!!! Your son is old enough to do a 50% w/c every day!!! When I was his age, I had a paper route in the middle of winter in Northern Ontario  In bare feet!!!

Oh - and classic isn't my thing....unless it's music; then I'm IN - looking forward to going to New York in February or March to see the Met's new production of Don Giovanni - my ABSOLUTE favorite and honestly number 4 on my Bucket List


----------



## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> When I was his age, I had a paper route in the middle of winter in Northern Ontario  In bare feet!!!


Yes, and I had to lick the road clean wit' tongue.

(testing your classics again...)


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> Yes, and I had to lick the road clean wit' tongue.
> 
> (testing your classics again...)


"My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white"

BUT, can Monty Python SERIOUSLY be considered classical English literature


----------



## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> "My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white"
> 
> BUT, can Monty Python SERIOUSLY be considered classical English literature


Literature, maybe not. But culture? Heck yes!


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> Literature, maybe not. But culture? Heck yes!


Yup; I cannot argue with that :lol:


----------



## April

Maybe you can have weekend visiting discus. Just to see now it goes . Kinda like looking after sometimes kids to see if it's for you. 
Shelley are you gonna convert everyone to round fish ?
What's first on your bucket list?

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275029,-122.835470


----------



## Chappy

There you go, Franck - I'll drop off my wilds on a Friday night and take your kids for the weekend!!!! We'll be the group ooo'ing and ahh'ing over the jellyfish display at the Aquarium 

I won't stop until there's a flat fish in every tank of every home in the lower mainland  And it's all YOUR FAULT!!! You and your flat fish 

If I have any luck with these bobbin' cuip eggs now going on day four, I may have to give you some in the near future. I told you it wouldn't take them long. I was SHOCKED to see some cuips left in your store today. Almost walked away with them for the Osaka - expect that one of my Phillipine Blue angels spawned with a gray/silver/black angel today. Now THAT is going to be interesting.......


----------



## crazy72

Yes. And I'll be the one doing water changes and stressing up at home, eh?

We have a family membership at the aquarium, btw, and my little one knows more about the displays there than I ever will. He says he want to study oceanography and work there when he grows up. 

Discus breeding? Woohoo! Congrats! Post pics! Or maybe you have already and I just need to search the forum...


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> Yes. And I'll be the one doing water changes and stressing up at home, eh?
> 
> We have a family membership at the aquarium, btw, and my little one knows more about the displays there than I ever will. He says he want to study oceanography and work there when he grows up.
> 
> Discus breeding? Woohoo! Congrats! Post pics! Or maybe you have already and I just need to search the forum...


I've already told you, your son can handle a python and/or a bucket  And a little stress would build strong character in him!!!!

Everyone who goes to the Aquarium wants to be a marine biologist. Tell him to go where the REAL money is...underwater welding!!!

Yup - the two big cuips threw eggs around the first day they were here - last Saturday. Then they calmed down and actually laid eggs on a cone. The roe is really red, like salmon. I've never gotten this far and don't expect much, but there are some little wiggling things in there for sure. The rest of the poor tank is shaking in a tight huddle at the opposite end of the tank


----------



## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> I've already told you, your son can handle a python and/or a bucket  And a little stress would build strong character in him!!!!


But wait! He'll be at the aquarium with you!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> Yup - the two big cuips threw eggs around the first day they were here - last Saturday. Then they calmed down and actually laid eggs on a cone. The roe is really red, like salmon. I've never gotten this far and don't expect much, but there are some little wiggling things in there for sure. The rest of the poor tank is shaking in a tight huddle at the opposite end of the tank


Ok, pics or a vid or it didn't happen!


----------



## hlee72ca

2wheelsx2 said:


> Ok, pics or a vid or it didn't happen!


Funny thing, I was thinking exactly the same thing.


----------



## Chappy

2wheelsx2 said:


> Ok, pics or a vid or it didn't happen!


If you're going to steal something I said, at least put it in quotes  Alright, I'll see what I can do.

Just remember - the last time I took a video of a female heckel laying eggs it caused a WHOLE lot of trouble


----------



## 2wheelsx2

-N/A- said:


> If you're going to steal something I said, at least put it in quotes  Alright, I'll see what I can do.


Hahaha...welcome to 2001 of the internet. TTIWWOP, and what I said, are on every forum, and probably every other witty thing that's ever been said. I could probably do like a serial killer and cut and paste phrases out of the forums I visit without ever having to type anything original if I were so inclined. So since I don't want to quote everything, I don't quote anything. 

Edit: Ok, no vids, just pics then.  They were laying at April's already, so I'm surprised no one else reported egg laying until you did. Mine don't, but I suspect my billions of fish and buffer make short work of any egglaying or eggs.


----------



## Chappy

Nothing but a big fuzzy ball of fungus this morning. Too busy to haul out the cone so I'll take a picture of the goo ball when I get home this afternoon - just for you Gary


----------



## crazy72

Long time no update. I don't spend much time on the forum anymore, but I do lurk every so often so I thought I might as well keep contributing a bit too.

Some of you know that I've been downsizing, and I'm down to just this one tank. I moved my lemon tetras in here so it's now a 2-species tank. And it works fine for me at the moment. Low maintenance and easy feedings. Everyone is getting along perfectly well, so all is good.

On with a few pics.





































Thanks for looking.


----------



## Hi Im Mike

hi, what kind of white sand is that? any close up pictures? looks really white!


----------



## crazy72

Hi Im Mike said:


> hi, what kind of white sand is that? any close up pictures? looks really white!


It's 3M sand. Very white, yes. I find it works well in this tank because it's otherwise pretty dark and it's "only" LED lights, but it sure wouldn't work in all setups. You can find close-up pics in my defunct 33 Long tank journal. Link in my signature.


----------



## crazy72

Quick update. First, I found a bunch of red/white stripy rocks in my aquarium supplies. I thought I'd give them a try in this setup to add some colour. I only used the smaller ones, and I quite like the result. Pic below.










The other thing is I've been playing with my camera options to take better pics (now that I have more time for other things with only one tank to maintain ). I shot a few pics of my fish tonight, and I thought I'd share a few of these pics. Still not all that great, but certainly better than anything I've shot before. I hope you'll agree.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Those Lemon Tetras are very pretty. I think there'll be a few people getting some soon.


----------



## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> Those Lemon Tetras are very pretty. I think there'll be a few people getting some soon.


Thanks Gary. Yes, they are pretty. And very hardy, too. I've had these 10 for nearly 2 years now. Haven't lost a single one, and they're all still going strong.

I love the way you can see inside their body. Really quite cool.


----------



## crazy72

A quick update. I added a few plants recently. Anubias and some Valisneria. Partly as an experiment to see whether these LEDs provide enough light to grow anything. Some anubias have been in for a couple of weeks now, and so far so good. There's even a couple of them that have grown a new leaf.

The plants add some colour too. I like the look of the tank better with them.


----------



## Chappy

Oh very nice. How did you train them to swim in formation like that in the third shot?! :bigsmile:


----------



## jobber

Tank has some good colour contrast. Ah, those lemons...elles sont belles!


----------



## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> Oh very nice. How did you train them to swim in formation like that in the third shot?! :bigsmile:


Yes it does take a great deal of patience. And a whip.


----------



## crazy72

jobber604 said:


> Tank has some good colour contrast. Ah, those lemons...elles sont belles!


Thanks Ming. Hey, this is a lot more French than I can speak any Chinese language!


----------



## vdub

Cool looking red and white striped rocks, where'd you get them from?


----------



## crazy72

vdub said:


> Cool looking red and white striped rocks, where'd you get them from?


Thanks. Aquariums West, a long time ago. I don't know if they still have them but if not they could maybe get them in if you asked. They weren't cheap, but yes they're nice. It's usually by the pound, so it's not too pricey as long as you stick with smaller ones...


----------



## Luke78

Nicely layed out Franck,liking this setup! Those lemons are something else,bright yellow coming right outta of them! What you feeding? Was in Aquariums West a while back,they did have those red and white striped rocks,and were also offering a small discount if you buy 3 pieces or more! Bought a few smaller pieces myself!



crazy72 said:


> Thanks. Aquariums West, a long time ago. I don't know if they still have them but if not they could maybe get them in if you asked. They weren't cheap, but yes they're nice. It's usually by the pound, so it's not too pricey as long as you stick with smaller ones...


----------



## crazy72

Luke78 said:


> Nicely layed out Franck,liking this setup! Those lemons are something else,bright yellow coming right outta of them! What you feeding? Was in Aquariums West a while back,they did have those red and white striped rocks,and were also offering a small discount if you buy 3 pieces or more! Bought a few smaller pieces myself!


Thanks Luke. I'm not feeding anything too fancy. NLS pellets mostly, frozen brine shrimp (about once a week) and frozen blood worms (about once a week too). Nothing illegal.


----------



## Luke78

Nothing illegal hahahahaha! Just amazed by the colour,hoping to get my bunch as bright as yours! They sure are hungry and active tetras for sure!



crazy72 said:


> Thanks Luke. I'm not feeding anything too fancy. NLS pellets mostly, frozen brine shrimp (about once a week) and frozen blood worms (about once a week too). Nothing illegal.


----------



## crazy72

Two things new: 
- more anubias
- a pair of Apisto Panduro. They were stressed up for a couple of days but are looking better now. Great little fish.


----------



## Luke78

Nice additions Franck, those panduro apisto's are alot of fun to watch! Very active,interesting breeding behaviour(colours are amazing,female is very tough and protective of the fry,) the flaring and tail/body shaking and dancing is something else! Good luck with them, where did you find them? I gave mine away to another member here,and lost one as well.


----------



## crazy72

Luke78 said:


> Nice additions Franck, those panduro apisto's are alot of fun to watch! Very active,interesting breeding behaviour(colours are amazing,female is very tough and protective of the fry,) the flaring and tail/body shaking and dancing is something else! Good luck with them, where did you find them? I gave mine away to another member here,and lost one as well.


Thanks Luke. Yes, very entertaining. Lots of personality. I bought them off a forum member, who had them directly imported. I had been looking for a pair for a little while, which is why I asked you about yours last week or whenever it was. I'm glad I could find these two.


----------



## crazy72

So... after a few days of being nice and tame, it looks like Mr Panduro has decided to rule the tank. First he flares at me whenever I come close to the glass. No fear eh . And tonight he chases everyone else in the tank. Including Mrs Panduro actually. I hope noone gets injured. I've started to count my tetras regularly...


----------



## aznfire888

Just read through your entire journal, the tank is beautiful. Very interesting to see the transformation this tank's had. Also the colour in the lemon's are amazing.


----------



## jobber

Gorgeous looking apistos.


----------



## crazy72

aznfire888 said:


> Just read through your entire journal, the tank is beautiful. Very interesting to see the transformation this tank's had. Also the colour in the lemon's are amazing.


Hey, thanks a lot. I'm glad you like it. I too like to browse tank journals to see how tanks evolve over time. I find it's nice to have the tank history all in one place.



jobber604 said:


> Gorgeous looking apistos.


Thanks Ming. Yes, these guys are nice. And lots of personality. I'm happy I got them.


----------



## crazy72

Sad news from the front. The male Panduro that I added a few weeks ago just died. He had been hiding in a coconut shell for about a week, not eating or anything. I checked up on him this afternoon and although he wasn't dead, he was belly up and barely alive. I put him in a floating nursery to be able to keep an eye on him, and he spent the rest of the afternoon belly up in there. I just put him in the freezer for a less painful end to his misery. Poor little guy. 

Don't know what I'll do with the female. I'll either be looking for another male, or sell her back. If someone reads this and keeps Panduros and would have a nice home to give her, let me know. That would probably decide the question for me.


----------



## CRS Fan

Sorry to hear about the male's unfortunate decline in health. Good luck on finding her a good home.

Best Regards,

Stuart


----------



## Morainy

I'm sorry to hear that the male Panduro has died. That's very sad, when you had a pair. Too bad.


----------



## Diztrbd1

Sorry to hear that Franck. These situations really bite. I remember my last Betta was the same way before he passed and I didn't have it in me to do the freezer thing. I guess I was hoping for a miracle that didn't happen. I remember watching him drop to the bottom of the tank and I ran over and dipped him out with my hand, he wiggled a little and took his last breathe there. Made my damn eyes water up  Anway....RIP lil Panduro

On another note you tank looks amazing buddy!


----------



## jobber

Never good news hearing of fish going belly up. Hope the female can find a mate and or home. RIP Mr.Panduro.


----------



## crazy72

Thanks everyone for the kind words. Yeah it's never good to lose a fish. In this case I hadn't had time to get attached or anything, but I feel bad for taking in this little guy. He was happy where he was before. He would still be alive there...

Anyway. I'm leaning towards donating the female to a good home if I can find one for her. I'll probably put an ad in the classifieds at some point in the next few days, but in the meantime if you know of a good home for her, feel free to contact me.


----------



## Luke78

Some unfortunate news Franck, sorry to hear about this.Try getting a hold of Rick Waines here on the Forum, he got a nice Male from me a while back.I know he was unloading some stock and equipment as well, but worth a shot to see if he kept these guys.



crazy72 said:


> Sad news from the front. The male Panduro that I added a few weeks ago just died. He had been hiding in a coconut shell for about a week, not eating or anything. I checked up on him this afternoon and although he wasn't dead, he was belly up and barely alive. I put him in a floating nursery to be able to keep an eye on him, and he spent the rest of the afternoon belly up in there. I just put him in the freezer for a less painful end to his misery. Poor little guy.
> 
> Don't know what I'll do with the female. I'll either be looking for another male, or sell her back. If someone reads this and keeps Panduros and would have a nice home to give her, let me know. That would probably decide the question for me.


----------



## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> _*He would still be alive there...*_


There's no way in the world of knowing that one, Franck. As fishkeepers, all we can do is the best we can for our beasties. Even with that, sometimes things don't go they way we hope or like. I'm sorry you lost this one.


----------



## serhiobc

crazy72 said:


> Ok so here we go for my 2nd tank journal. I bought this tank from Stuart about a year ago. Nice bow-front with an XP3. I set it up in my home office. I wanted to breed fish with interesting parenting behaviour for my kids to enjoy. I decided on kribs.
> 
> The tank when I first set it up. Low tech, pretty busy scape, especially on one side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I got some kribs from Aq West and Roger's. And breed they did!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The kribs stayed in there for many months. In the usual way with all my tanks, some plants did well and some didn't. Some pics over time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some time last summer I decided to simplify the scape. I also moved the kribs out into my 33 Long, and put a few hatchet fish in the Vicenza, together with some Bolivian rams. I can't see the rams in this pic, which is very unlike them, so my guess is they weren't there yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I missed the rams too much in my main CT in the living room so they were moved back in. The Vicenza got a short stint with Apisto Agassizi. I lowered the water level at some point to make the hatchet fish happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At that point I decided that I didn't see enough of this tank (even when I'm down in my home office I turn my back to it). I have nowhere else to put it without jeopardizing my common-law relationship, and I didn't really find anything that I wanted to do with it to justify the maintenance and everything. So I made the decision that I was going to shut it down. I used it for a couple of months to grow out some kribs that didn't fit in my 33 Long and that I wasn't allowed to keep in the kitchen sink, and that was it, I was going to shut it down.
> 
> Then, about 2 weeks ago, I visited .... someone ... someone who is a sponsor on this site, to buy some equipment for my 60G tank. And as it turned out, this someone is a wickedly dangerous guy to visit.
> 
> So yep, you guessed it, I found what it was that I wanted to do with this tank. Exciting enough to justify keeping it. Because the tank had only seen a very light bioload over the last few months I decided to start a new fishless cycle. And go bare bottom (the tank, I mean ) for the first time ever. I also removed the internal tubing because I found the XP3 was a little less noisy with external tubing (likely not enough flow through the internal tubing, as Gordon suggested just tonight). Keeping the water level lower to accelerate the cycle.
> 
> With flash:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> It's been 10 days now and it looks like the cycle might be done very soon. Really excited!
> 
> So what is it that's going to go in here? And who is the wickedly dangerous person to visit? Well stay tuned...
> 
> Thanks for looking.


Hi there. I am new to this forum. As I understand there should be a picture on this post. I don't see it. Is there something wrong with the way I view the page?


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## crazy72

serhiobc said:


> Hi there. I am new to this forum. As I understand there should be a picture on this post. I don't see it. Is there something wrong with the way I view the page?


Hi there - Welcome to BCA. Yes there are pics that you should be able to see. You can open a thread in the 'problems/suggestions' forum at the bottom of the main page, or contact by PM nicklfire or effox. Good luck.


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## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> There's no way in the world of knowing that one, Franck. As fishkeepers, all we can do is the best we can for our beasties. Even with that, sometimes things don't go they way we hope or like. I'm sorry you lost this one.


Thanks Shelley. You're right. I know you're right. It's just hard not to feel guilty. But I'll move on. It's not as bad as that time that I didn't cover the intake in my 33Long and lost half of a krib batch before realising. That one, I really kicked myself over it for a long time. I'm not feeling too bad this time because I don't see what I might have done wrong. I have no idea what happened to this little guy.


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## crazy72

Luke78 said:


> Some unfortunate news Franck, sorry to hear about this.Try getting a hold of Rick Waines here on the Forum, he got a nice Male from me a while back.I know he was unloading some stock and equipment as well, but worth a shot to see if he kept these guys.


Thanks for the lead, Luke. I might try that. Although at the moment I'm more leaning towards finding a good home for this little gal.


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## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> Thanks Shelley. You're right. I know you're right. It's just hard not to feel guilty. But I'll move on. It's not as bad as that time that I didn't cover the intake in my 33Long and lost half of a krib batch before realising. That one, I really kicked myself over it for a long time. I'm not feeling too bad this time because I don't see what I might have done wrong. I have no idea what happened to this little guy.


Oh, no that one (the krib thing) had *NOTHING *to do with you either. Krib parents just don't like their fry very much after a certain age and spend their days plotting ways to get rid of them so they can have more. That pair of yours used to take the little fry out for a swim and would PURPOSELY take them past the intake for the 2217 which of course would suck half of them right up then they'd turn around and do it again! I swear they did it on purpose because as soon as I put a sponge on the intake, they stopped swimming by it. You just aren't the fish reaper you think you are, Franck


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## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> Oh, no that one (the krib thing) had *NOTHING *to do with you either. Krib parents just don't like their fry very much after a certain age and spend their days plotting ways to get rid of them so they can have more. That pair of yours used to take the little fry out for a swim and would PURPOSELY take them past the intake for the 2217 which of course would suck half of them right up then they'd turn around and do it again! I swear they did it on purpose because as soon as I put a sponge on the intake, they stopped swimming by it. You just aren't the fish reaper you think you are, Franck




You should write novels for a living, Shelley. I'm telling you!


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## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> You should write novels for a living, Shelley. I'm telling you!


I'd have to publish under fiction as no one would believe it


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## crazy72

A quick update to say that the death of Mr Panduro and other developments made me change my mind as to what I'll do with my new tank, and consequently with this one. The new plan is to have this one stay as a South America community tank. Major rescape coming, though, since the white sand is going to the new tank.

The new tank... you wait and see. 

Now looking for a new home for Mrs Panduro. If someone reads this and would be interested, PM me. I'll let her go for free if I know it's to a good place.


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## Chappy

Wild discus come from South America...............

How long are you keeping the Santa Hat???!!!!


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## crazy72

-N/A- said:


> Wild discus come from South America...............
> 
> How long are you keeping the Santa Hat???!!!!


The Santa Hat? Well, our Xmas tree is still up, too. 

The other part of your reply, I'll just disregard.


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## Chappy

crazy72 said:


> The Santa Hat? Well, our Xmas tree is still up, too.
> 
> The other part of your reply, I'll just disregard.


AWESOME!!! I still have Christmas decorations up in my office


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## crazy72

I moved the white sand into my new tank today, and when I removed all the wood and plants, I found what might well have been tetra eggs. About 60 0r 70 eggs on the sand where I had a lot of plants (waiting to go to the new tank too). Tiny little things, pinkish in colour. I'm guessing it's the lemons because I think cardinals are a lot harder to get going, but I don't know. Has anyone seen lemon or cardinal eggs and could confirm one way or the other? In any case, it's pretty exciting! I hope changing tanks don't put them off it. I'd love to catch them at it. Whoever "them" is.


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## jobber

Exciting news Franck. Very exciting. Never knew it would be so soon after last discussing about the possibilities of breeding tetras 
If they're moving into a bigger tank...with some additional flora furnishings, you're tank will be populated with a nice colony of lemons. 
'pistos, cories, and lemons.


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## crazy72

jobber604 said:


> Exciting news Franck. Very exciting. Never knew it would be so soon after last discussing about the possibilities of breeding tetras
> If they're moving into a bigger tank...with some additional flora furnishings, you're tank will be populated with a nice colony of lemons.
> 'pistos, cories, and lemons.


Thanks Ming. Yes, actually the more I think about it and the more excited I am! I might even reconsider my Apisto plan and see if I have any chance of breeding the lemons. That would be extremely cool.


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## jobber

Just provide lots of hiding spots for the fries or move the adults to give the fries a chance. You know how ferocious eaters lemons are. Good luck with the lemon breeding...look forward to any updates. I'm anticipating and hoping for an update of "I see lemon fries!".


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## crazy72

There is definitely something going on with the lemons. I just spent a few minutes watching them, they chase each other madly, darting through the tank in all directions non-stop. They are always fairly active, but that is something else, and I've never seen them do this before. I haven't seen any eggs being released, and maybe they're just playing and not spawning, but definitely something going on.

I tried to catch it on film but my camcorder's battery is low. I'll try later on. I wanted to update the journal with pics of the new scape anyway. Stay tuned.


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## 2wheelsx2

Home grown lemon tetas...don't flood the market Franck.


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## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> Home grown lemon tetas...don't flood the market Franck.


Ha ha. We're not there yet, Gary. Who knows, maybe they just like the new scape and are excited to have a new playground. And even if it is spawning, who knows whether I'll be able to raise the fry. I'm looking up info on the net about lemons breeding. They don't seem to be the hardest to breed, but then I'm not the best hobbyist either.


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## jobber

Now you've got me all in the researching mode now. Hope a video is captured, always neat to see tetras spawning, not as commonly talked about on this forum. Should check out all those "spawning lemon tetra" videos on Youtube. Too cool.


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## crazy72

jobber604 said:


> Now you've got me all in the researching mode now. Hope a video is captured, always neat to see tetras spawning, not as commonly talked about on this forum. Should check out all those "spawning lemon tetra" videos on Youtube. Too cool.


Lot of vids on the net, yes. What they show is pretty close to what mine did earlier this afternoon (I just checked again and they seem to have calmed down). I'd love to see eggs being released to be 100% sure. I have the feeling I'll spend a lot of time in my home office in the next few days.


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## jobber

That's one of the perks for home offices. Check early morning around first light or when you turn on the LED's early in the morning. I would suggest continue with your feeding regime of varying bloodworm, brine ships, and NLS. Keep the fish fueled and energized for more male chasing female activities


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## crazy72

A few pics of the new scape. I moved the white sand up into my new tank, and replaced it with some tan-colour sand that I bought off Bill (Aquaman) a while back. Also removed the centre piece of wood. Otherwise not much change. Everyone seems to have survived the chaos quite well.

And the lemons are back to their normal behaviour after their little dance this afternoon.

On with the pics. Front view and side view.




























Thanks for looking.


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## zhasan

Nice job Frank... that scape looks very peaceful!!


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## Luke78

Nicely laid out Franck,simple and natural.I am curious about the positioning of the spray bar, you leaving it like that or is it temporary?


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## jobber

Nice new scape for the mini-Vicenza. Nice teaser pictures...you know I'm patiently waiting for the new Vicenza. 
Still loving those lemons in this tank.


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## crazy72

Thanks guys.

Luke, yes this where I have the spray bar all the time. It's just below the water surface and pointed slightly upwards, so the flow breaks the surface a bit and that makes sure there's plenty of oxygen in the tank. It seems to be working for my fish. It creates a slight splashing noise but I don't mind that. I even quite like it actually. I wouldn't want it in my living room, but in my office I like it.

Ming, pics of the new one will come, eventually. It's actually up and running now, as of this afternoon. But not pic ready.


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## 2wheelsx2

I think Luke meant that it looks like it's hanging in the middle of the tank. I was wondering about that too. Any reason why it's not against the side or the back?


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## crazy72

Oops sorry. Yes, obvious in hindsight. Silly me. 

The reason it's where it is is that the flow gently brushes the sand on that side of the tank. I fiddled with many positions, as I wanted enough flow on that side to push the debris to the other side, but not so much flow that the sand would be pushed to the centre. This position gives a good compromise.

The funny thing is that now with the XP3, there's more flow and I've noticed the sand being pushed to the centre. So I might have to fiddle again...


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## crazy72

I caught my lemons doing their dance again this afternoon. Not quite a wild as the other day, but still pretty intense. I'm trying to post a vid below, we'll see if it works.

I still don't know if this is just play or something more. The more I read about lemons and their breeding, the less I think that what I found the other day was lemons eggs. But on the other hand this group is healthy and mature and the idea got me excited, so I decided to try and make the tank more suitable for them to spawn in. I'll be adding moss and other plants. I also let go of my female Panduro to a great member here. Not sure what I'll do with the cardinals yet. They might be moved to my new tank, or they might stay in there.

Anyway, on with the vid. Hoping it'll work.


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## crazy72

Long time no update. I moved the cardinals out of this tank into my new tank, so the lemons are now by themselves in here. And I've been trying to make the tank more suitable for them to breed. I still don't know for sure if their intense activity is play or mating. It sure looks a lot like some mating videos that I've seen on the web, but I haven't seen them release eggs. Mind you, I haven't had much time to really observe them during the day lately (they are the most active early in the afternoon, shortly after the lights come on). Anyway, all this stuff sure makes for one of the ugliest tanks you've ever seen, but I don't care. I have my new tank to look nice and this one I just want to try and see if I can help the lemons lay eggs. That would be soooo exciting.

Next step is to try and condition them a little more seriously. Probably with some live worms. But I work too much at the moment so I'll wait for work to slow down so that I can spend more time watching them in case they do lay eggs but they get eaten straight away. Which is perfectly possible with 10 of them voracious eaters in the tank.

Anyway, enough words, on with the pics.


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## 2wheelsx2

Try some of the freeze dried blackworms. That should do the trick. Looks really good for saving some eggs in there.


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## jobber

That green mop head is perfect for eggs. Corydoras would also love that thing ;D
Starve the fish for a day or two, then spoil the tetras with some nice juicy live blackworm for a few straight days in a row ;D


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## crazy72

2wheelsx2 said:


> Try some of the freeze dried blackworms. That should do the trick. Looks really good for saving some eggs in there.


Thanks. Yes, I'll do that. And/or some of Charles' LBW. It'll have to wait a few weeks though because March is going to be busy for me.



jobber604 said:


> That green mop head is perfect for eggs. Corydoras would also love that thing ;D
> Starve the fish for a day or two, then spoil the tetras with some nice juicy live blackworm for a few straight days in a row ;D


Yep. I'll do that. As to the green mop, it comes from Canadian Tire on Kingsway. Let's start a trend here. The fluo green mops in show tanks. :bigsmile:


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## 2wheelsx2

crazy72 said:


> Thanks. Yes, I'll do that. And/or some of Charles' LBW. It'll have to wait a few weeks though because March is going to be busy for me.


If/when we split the Downoi, I can bring you some freeze dried and frozen blackworm to try.


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## Flygirl

crazy72 said:


>


At first glance I thought a ballerina fell out of her boat.

:lol:


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## crazy72

Flygirl said:


> At first glance I thought a ballerina fell out of her boat.
> 
> :lol:


Hehe that's funny. You're right though. Perhaps I should drop a couple of ballet slippers in there to make it look really confusing. :bigsmile:


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## crazy72

Time for an update. I finally got a glimpse of a fry! Pretty exciting.

You better enjoy the video. I spent some time editing it with my older daughter. She was very pleased to get to show some iMovie tricks to an old fart like me.


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## jobber

That is some exciting news. Lemon fries ?
That's some great video editing and camera work to be able to shoot the little one. If you see one, there's definitely another 5 

Sent from Samsung Mobile via Tapatalk


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## crazy72

jobber604 said:


> That is some exciting news. Lemon fries ?
> That's some great video editing and camera work to be able to shoot the little one. If you see one, there's definitely another 5
> 
> Sent from Samsung Mobile via Tapatalk


Thanks Ming. Yes, it's lemon fry for sure. I have nothing else in there, and the Lemons are definitely scattering eggs. And yes, I agree, there must be a lot more. In fact I looked a bit tonight and I could see at least 5. So there must be dozens. But they probably won't make it unless I work on it. They'll get eaten.


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## Chappy

I just LOVED the Star Wars like introduction with the script - AWESOME 
Nicely done, daddy!!! Must feel pretty good to have your suspicions confirmed FINALLY. Good for you, Franck. First you had the touch with that krib pair I got from you (who are on their 132nd spawn as we speak :bigsmile, now the lemons. I told you you should be keeping wild discus  Thanks for posting the update. I enjoyed reading through the thread again.
Shelley


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## crazy72

Chappy said:


> I just LOVED the Star Wars like introduction with the script - AWESOME
> Nicely done, daddy!!! Must feel pretty good to have your suspicions confirmed FINALLY. Good for you, Franck. First you had the touch with that krib pair I got from you (who are on their 132nd spawn as we speak :bigsmile, now the lemons. I told you you should be keeping wild discus  Thanks for posting the update. I enjoyed reading through the thread again.
> Shelley


Thanks Shelley. Yes, it was really nice to finally have confirmation. The thing is, because they also rub against something (moss, mop) when they rub against each other, there are other things besides eggs that go floating and sinking. And it's all so, so tiny. So it's hard to be 100% sure that what you think are eggs really are eggs. And then it's not clear that they would get fertilised. And then hatch. So yes, I was really excited to see the little one.

As to having the touch, honestly I don't think so. A krip pair is, well, a krib pair. If you look after them right, they'll spawn. And again. And again. The lemons are certainly a lot more exciting for me, but still I didn't do anything special in the way of conditioning. Just gave them space, decent food, and a decent maintenance. The rest is luck. My only merit perhaps is to have observed them well enough and have suspected the breeding behaviour.

Anyway, I'm now trying something to save some eggs/fry today. We'll see if it works...


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## crazy72

Quick update. I moved a couple of mops into a 10G. I don't know how many of the little guys will have survived the shock, but I know there's at least one that has made it so far, because I spotted him/her this afternoon. My guess is there are more, because they hide all the time. But I don't know. The next few days will probably be critical for them.

It's interesting to see the difference with cichlid fry, that come out in confidence when they're escorted by Mom and/or Dad. These little guys here must know by instinct that it's a tough world out there, and they should stay under cover. 

I hope a few will make it and come out more, because otherwise it'll make feeding a little tricky.


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## crazy72

It's been a while since I posted some pics. The main development around this tank is my attempts to raise some of the fry. Some of you might have seen this thread: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/breeding-spawning-section-15/lemon-tetra-breeding-experiment-28427/

I ended up removing the ballerina tutu as it looked like the lemons didn't use it to lay eggs in anyway. They drop their eggs mostly in the moss and in the spawning mop on the right hand side. I added a manzy branch to fill up the left hand side a bit, and I let them do their thing. They seem to produce eggs steadily. I doubt that any fry will survive in there, hence the 10G breeder.

Otherwise nothing to report. The tank is still healthy and wonderfully low maintenance.


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## crazy72

Long time no update. Not much new in this tank. So much so that I'm not including a pic in this update!

The lemons are still producing about one batch of wrigglers a week, but I'm not harvesting them any more because the juvies in my 10G breeder eat them anyway, and I don't want to set up another breeder. I'm waiting for the juvies to be big enough to be sold with the parents, which should be a matter of weeks, and the tank will be on the market. It's been a great ride.


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## crazy72

This is the end of this journal. I sold the tank today. Down to one tank. Tomatoes, here I come! :bigsmile:


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