# Did I Mess Up?



## raeven (May 12, 2011)

A girlfriend of mine had a 10g tank off to the side that she was hoping to set up. Having done this already myself, I volunteered to help.


When I set up my 55g, I took a big squeeze of my smaller, long established tank and had the thing up and running in a matter of a week. I did the same for her, and this time we added some Cycle to get things started quickly so she can get right into the whole fish keeping thing.

Within a few days some of the fish I gave her started to die. I honestly thought it was because it was likely they were older. I got them from someone else, and I had no idea how long they've been around for. 

A week later I went back and tested her water to see how things were doing. Her ammonia and nitrites were through the friggen roof! We did a quick water change of about 30%, and tested it again a few days later. The ammonia is down to a very light green, but the nitrites are still a little on the higher side.

I can't help but wonder if I somehow managed to set it up completely wrong for her, or if this is just bound to happen to a new tank and we rushed it a little by putting fish in that same day. All she had in there were a few guppies and neons. I thought the whole point of Cycle was to make it so your tank is habitable right away, so long as you follow the directions. Am I just completely mistaken? Or was adding Cycle and my bacteria to her tank like an overdose?

I can't help but feel really horrible about it. It's only been two weeks, and already she's getting put off on the idea of keeping her tank. On top of the possible fish dying because of the ammonia and nitrites, there have been a few other fatalities as well from aggression of other fish. So really, the past few weeks have been nothing but a huge, disappointing fail


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

raeven said:


> A0
> When I set up my 55g, I took a big squeeze of my smaller, long established tank


 What do you mean when you say you took a big squeeze of the established tank?


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## grizadams_7mm (Aug 29, 2011)

squeezing out the filter media and using cycle should have been ok, I have done this with a couple of tanks as well. Neons can be very sensitive, I would just keep doing smaller WC and see how that goes. Maybe in the men time throw some danios in there to help the cycle. Those little guys seem to be bomb proof. Keep us posted


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

It's my personal opinion, but I don't think Cycle does anything. A product that I and many other have used is Seachem Stability.

The question I have is this: in a 55 gallon, how many guppies and such were in there? Even without any established media, it should have been a light load. Did some fish die and left to decay for a while?


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## Danw (Feb 26, 2011)

this is where i think the sponge filter is underrated. if im setting up a new tank i just start it of will an old spounge filter, and the tanks new filter and i run them together for a day or so and then i add my fish. very easy and ive never had problems.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Danw said:


> this is where i think the sponge filter is underrated. if im setting up a new tank i just start it of will an old spounge filter, and the tanks new filter and i run them together for a day or so and then i add my fish. very easy and ive never had problems.


This should work with any filter. Any biomedia should work the same, although some may be more efficient than others that's why I don't think it's a seeding problem. I am not sure 1 day is enough to get the full bacteria colony going but you certainly will have some transferred.


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

Hello cycle works fine, just follow the directions for each day, stability works good too. i have herd it is the same just more concentrated than cycle. but anytime you start a new tank and add fish right away you should be testing everyday IMO. hopefully your friend will see it is worth it and keep the tank. Cheers


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Scherb said:


> Hello cycle works fine, just follow the directions for each day


According to the OP's first post, it apparently didn't....


raeven said:


> this time we added some Cycle to get things started quickly so she can get right into the whole fish keeping thing.....I thought the whole point of Cycle was to make it so your tank is habitable right away, so long as you follow the directions.


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

grizadams_7mm said:


> squeezing out the filter media and using cycle should have been ok, I have done this with a couple of tanks as well. Neons can be very sensitive, I would just keep doing smaller WC and see how that goes. Maybe in the men time throw some danios in there to help the cycle. Those little guys seem to be bomb proof. Keep us posted


That's what I thought, as well. I didn't think about it at first, but she actually went and got some zebra danios. Something attacked them (I'm thinking it was a gold algae eater we got for her, and having not done research first on that, turns out it can be aggressive). Two of them have died already because of that, whereas the other two are kinda just swimming around feeling small.

As of right now, she has 3 guppies (I believe), an angelfish, two zebra danios, 2 pygme cories, and the algae eater (who is currently residing in a breeder box to prevent it from attacking anything else until I grab it off her later tonight).

It would seem these past two weeks of nothing but fish being attacked and dying (for whatever reason), has completely put her off the hobby. She has no interest in watching something suffer and die. It just really sucks, cause I can't help but feel my advice failed her, despite being assured by so many sources and my own understanding that everything should have gone fine for her. I've completely let her down, and it's understandable that she questions my knowledge when nothing but bad has come of it


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

2wheelsx2 said:


> It's my personal opinion, but I don't think Cycle does anything. A product that I and many other have used is Seachem Stability.
> 
> The question I have is this: in a 55 gallon, how many guppies and such were in there? Even without any established media, it should have been a light load. Did some fish die and left to decay for a while?


The 55g is mine, and I left it for a week before I put any fish in. I just put an established filter sponge in there to give it a good squeeze, and a small container of the gravel from my other tank. Not a single fish died in my tank at all. In fact, if memory serves correctly, I may have waited 3-4 days before I put a few guppies in.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

raeven said:


> As of right now, she has 3 guppies (I believe), an angelfish, two zebra danios, 2 pygme cories, and the algae eater (who is currently residing in a breeder box to prevent it from attacking anything else until I grab it off her later tonight).


I think this is the problem. That's a lot of fish for a 10 gallon. Jumpstarting a tank is fine, but you still have to watch the bioload in the beginning. The only way to do a full fish load right off the bat is to do a fishless cycle with ammonia so that it's operating at full capacity. Even with a fishless cycle, an angel, 3 gupplies, an algae eater (pleco or SAE) is a more than a full load for a 10 gallon already, depending on the size of the angel, and it won't be long before the angel is too big for it.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I've used Cycle too with great success. I'm aware of Stability, but never used it because Cycle worked for me, so I can't compare which one is better, but I've readily established multiple tanks (only 33g and lower, mind you) with seeding and Cycle, so I don't think that's the issue here.


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## enzotesta (Dec 20, 2011)

the good ole spike


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I think this is the problem. That's a lot of fish for a 10 gallon. Jumpstarting a tank is fine, but you still have to watch the bioload in the beginning. The only way to do a full fish load right off the bat is to do a fishless cycle with ammonia so that it's operating at full capacity. Even with a fishless cycle, an angel, 3 gupplies, an algae eater (pleco or SAE) is a more than a full load for a 10 gallon already, depending on the size of the angel, and it won't be long before the angel is too big for it.


Maybe that was the problem, then. The bf seems to think she has too many fish right now, too. The algae eater and the angelfish are on their way to my house right now, so that will quickly take out the amount of occupants in it. Those two are the biggest ones.

She texted me and said Trevor at Rogers (I think that's his name) was able to hook her up with some chemicals or something to help take care of her tank. Hopefully that works out for her. After speaking to him again, I think she's going to give this hobby another shot. I'm crossing my fingers and really wanting this to work out for her. It's such an unfortunate start at what could be a really great thing.


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

effox said:


> I've used Cycle too with great success. I'm aware of Stability, but never used it because Cycle worked for me, so I can't compare which one is better, but I've readily established multiple tanks (only 33g and lower, mind you) with seeding and Cycle, so I don't think that's the issue here.


Agreed. i have used cycle and it worked good for me. but there is an expired date so check that. and as others said it sounds like you added to many fish to start. 2 or 3 danios are a good start. Cheers


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## noodles11114 (May 21, 2010)

bacteria from any filter undergravel, canaster, outside, or sponge can be transfered from an old tank to anew one
the culture should be floated in the tank with the lights out for twenty minutes and the new water added every 
5 minutes just like adding fish
bacteria is a live and is senitive to water changes
it also lives in the dark and that is why hagen and other companies make their filter black or blue
clear filters made it possible for you to see when it needed to be cleaned
in the wholesale bussiness my job was to have a new tank ready to hold over 100 fish for the next day
and keep them alive till they were sold
got any questions i can help to answer them
fish keeping is easy understand the water chemistry

thanks for reading


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

no, I don't think you messed up.

I use seachem stability. When I clean up my canister filter, I know I completely clean out all the biomedia using tap water so im certain bacteria is killed off.

From the information provided from the OP and subsequent responses, and I'm merely suggesting in order to provide a possible answer to why the cycling failed in this tank is that the beneficial bacteria that was squeezed into the new 10 tank may have been killed off or just died as there was probably not enough ammonia, thus leading to a dieoff of beneficial bacteria causing a possible drastic spike in ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite too much for the low water volume to handle. 

Oxygen depreviation, stressed fish, weak fish, may all be reasons for the premature death of the fish.

along with cycling the tank, perhaps making use of nitrate soaking plants to eleviate and buffer potential cycling spikes of nitrate.....

from what I have learnt and from my own experience, 10 gallon tank is a small volume of water and the quality if the water can degrade in a matter of hours.....and very fast. Use plants and seachem stability, or wait those few Weeks.

Good luck with the new tank. I'm sure things will certainly settle.

Sent from Samsung Mobile via Tapatalk


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

I did give her a couple plants, too, although I'll admit that was moreso for decoration than for the health of her tank. One of them was a sword, though I never learned the names of the others.

From what I was told today, she did a 50% water change and things have already been looking better for her.


Thanks for all your help, guys. Whenever in doubt, I always know I can come here and get some expert advice


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