# Complaint letter to a pet store....



## RDonald

I won't flame the store by name...it isn't one of the sponsors here. If you figure out the offending store and decide not to shop there ever so be it. If this post gets removed for breaking the rules that's fine too. I'm not one to stand on a soapbox but man oh man...

I witnessed the most disgusting stuff I've ever seen in a fish department in any store ever and have written complaint letters to the store and the head office....I was almost in tears when I walked out of the store it was so bad.

Here are some examples of what I saw:
- Glassfish with injected neon dyes
- In nearly every display tank there were decomposing fish, this clearly indicates an ongoing lack of care. In most tanks there were multiple dead fish floating.
- The "show tank" at the front of the department had more than two dozen assorted fish including discus, clown loaches, tetras, and cory catfish gasping at the surface. All of the fish in this tank appeared distressed.
-The koi pond had several dead fish floating around in it.
-The "feeder goldfish" pool was so murky that you could not see the fish in the water and there were more than a dozen dead goldfish floating at the top of the pool.
-In many tanks there were clear signs of overstocking with multiple fish showing severely damaged fins, body lesions, and signs of stress, disease and damage from fish aggression.
-*Several betta cups had rotting corpses in them; some of them had a scum of mould on the surface of the water from the rotting fish.*

It was horrible, I understand a floater or two. This was way beyond being behind on tank maintenance. Rotting betta's in the cups really put me over, it was the grossest display I've ever seen.

Ryan in Richmond


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## eternity302

I already guessed which store it is when you said TWO things that's been ongoing for MONTHS!!

The feeder goldfish tank.. i can't agree more.. you can't see them...!
And the koi pond with dead fish... i also agree... but really... what can you do? They dun even care..! The company itself alone doesn't care..!
I feel your pain man! And let me guess.. this company has a big nice yellow and green sign!

Relax man.. there's nothing we can do... just vent and let it out =) cheer up~


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## sdfish223

eternity302 said:


> I already guessed which store it is when you said TWO things that's been ongoing for MONTHS!!
> 
> The feeder goldfish tank.. i can't agree more.. you can't see them...!
> And the koi pond with dead fish... i also agree... but really... what can you do? They dun even care..! The company itself alone doesn't care..!
> I feel your pain man! And let me guess.. this company has a big nice yellow and green sign!
> 
> Relax man.. there's nothing we can do... just vent and let it out =) cheer up~


There is something everyone can do, just dont spend any money at the offending stores, might not make any difference but at least you and I wont be personally supporting said store.

I think I have a pretty good clue as to what store it is.


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## InfraredDream

Why is bad to say the name? Is it against the rules? I guess the best that can be done is to not buy from a store like that. Especially the dead bettas  That broke my heart just to read it, don't know how I would react if I actually see it 
Complain and put there name everywhere so they go out of business I say


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## kelly528

Yeah, saying the name is against the rules but on the other hand, you don't really need to know the name of the store.... if you see ANY store with conditions like that, for heavens sake don't support them!!!

I would write to management and mention the outright cruelty. I have seen stores excuse this crap by blaming it on bad shipments... yeeeah I'm really sure the fish reached that state of decomposition between Monday and now. Just let 'em know that they aren't fooling anyone and for whatever their excuse they still have one of the grossest stores in the lower mainland.

I might add that if you call this into the SPCA they are obligated to investigate, if not for the sake of the fish then for the welfare of any other small animals or dogs or cats in the store who could be suffering.


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## neven

now im googling pet stores in richmond in hopes to find a green and yellow sign.

here's an interesting point, what if that store decided to buy sponsorship on this site, with the name being unsaid, it may slip through the cracks.


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## kelly528

Thats why my very first post here got deleted... as a forum we could get technically into big legal trouble by 'slandering' a store's name. Not saying it's likely to happen but if it does-- oh boy lets not take any chances!!!

I'm sure the name will come out through the grapevine and even then I would think, as I said previously, that most of our members here would have the sense not to buy from any store with such blatantly substandard conditions.


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## eternity302

We pretty much know where!

But seriously, as you said, we ALL can do something? yah, not buy there, but wut else? Do people actually care? I'm only being hoenst! No matter how many times you mention to staff, how many complaints you write to them, wut do they ever do? Well, at least thta's how I feel! Cuz they never seem to ever improve!


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## neven

start a facebook group against it! A massive letter campaign


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## kelly528

Call the SPCA to investigate. I did it for the same reasons for a certain pet store out here and they had to respond. Unsuprisingly there had been past incidences involving said store, animal welfare and the SPCA.

Also, we could start a petition on a petition site, or some sort of a pledge form. Maybe if they had a list of all the names of the customers they were losing they would think twice.


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## Diztrbd1

I could be wrong here , I'm pretty sure you could throw the name in there as what you wrote come off more as a personal experience or review. I personally would like to know the name myself so I never make the mistake of going there. I'd probably get kicked out as I would definitely voice my opinion lol Calling the SPCA sounds like a good idea too.


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## iKuik

Diztrbd1 said:


> I could be wrong here , I'm pretty sure you could throw the name in there as what you wrote come off more as a personal experience or review. I personally would like to know the name myself so I never make the mistake of going there. I'd probably get kicked out as I would definitely voice my opinion lol Calling the SPCA sounds like a good idea too.


No doubt. I have seen many reviews that just go blasting at a store  sometimes for good reason and others, not.

I'm pretty sure we are not the only forum talking about the said store's bad quality and service.

What I don't get is how you could walk in there, and the management actually thinks they could sell anything! If you think about it, its actually ridiculous and almost humorous...


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## InfraredDream

Yeah, I agree it is common sence not to buy from a store that has tanks like that. But still. What if you go to get a dog or a bird and never really see the aquariums? I don't know if the bad "care" is so obvious with other animals, so... I would like to do something. If you end up doing facebook campaign or a petition, please, somebody PM me, so I join and send to my network.


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## Nicklfire

IF we posted the name of the store AND the owner saw the thread AND hired lawyers to sue for Slander.. yes we would be in trouble.. i think.

I'll get our resident lawyer to take a peek and see what we can do


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## eternity302

Nicklfire said:


> IF we posted the name of the store AND the owner saw the thread AND hired lawyers to sue for Slander.. yes we would be in trouble.. i think.
> 
> I'll get our resident lawyer to take a peek and see what we can do


Just want to ask... but isn't it considered freedom of speech even if we flamed?  Because the forums intention wasn't to flame stores, but to share our personal hobby  So i think it's okay~?


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## InfraredDream

Yeah, have to be careful with that kind of things, totally understand that.


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## Nicklfire

perfect definition of it i think



> Slander, in its broadest terms, is the act of publicly speaking injurious statements about another party, when the statements are known by the speaker to be false. You can sue someone for slander only if the false statements they spoke resulted in financial or personal loss.


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## davefrombc

Well, it's only libel or slander if the statements are false, and can be proven false.
If he states that's what he observed when he was there; and doesn't claim it is always like that, I can't see were the business owner would have a case .... Especially if others reported the same thing.


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## Nicklfire

davefrombc said:


> Well, it's only libel or slander if the statements are false, and can be proven false.
> If he states that's what he observed when he was there; and doesn't claim it is always like that, I can't see were the business owner would have a case .... Especially if others reported the same thing.


Are you willing to risk the legal costs on that assumption though, cause i'm not.. HELL NO! lol

I've asked for guidance in this legal area so we will see, this is not a new subject, we have discussed it lots.. There are also documented cases of other fish sites with the same issue that WERE sued


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## beN

hmm i really wonder what store. Im never out in richmond. Either way thats horrible what you witnessed. i think that all aquatic shops around the lowermainland deal with one or 2 of these problems. But a store thats dealing with all those problems is probably having some serious trouble with sales & employees. I wonder...


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## Nicklfire

couldn't you picket outside the store
peaceful rally.


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## Karen

Question.
Is not naming names an update to the "new" site?
I recall MANY threads on the old site bashing chain stores by name.


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## kelly528

I think chain stores get bashed too much to care 

Plus most franchises (ie Petcetera) have many locations and wouldn't waste time and money on people in one area. Suing could only get them worse press and plus, they have it figured out that if they actually rectify the situation rather than fighting it they can win valuable customers.

Frankly, from the armchair I think that what we are saying is in no way libel or slander since, well, it's true. But hey... a good enough lawyer could probably convince a judge otherwise and it's not worth risking our forum for.


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## fkshiu

eternity302 said:


> Just want to ask... but isn't it considered freedom of speech even if we flamed?  Because the forums intention wasn't to flame stores, but to share our personal hobby  So i think it's okay~?


Let's get this straight: "Freedom of speech" has nothing to do with a website controlling complaints regarding businesses. You are free to start your own website and complain all you want about anything and anyone. You are free to stand on the corner of Robson and Georgia and complain about the poor business practices of big box chain pet stores. You are free to circulate your own newsletter complaining about the horrors of keeping bettas in little plastic cups to your heart's content. That is "freedom of speech".

"Freedom of speech" does NOT entitle you to come on to someone else's property and say things that the owner does not want you to say on his/her property. Look, if you invited someone into your house and he started swearing his head off, you have every right to tell this person to stop doing so. And if he doesn't, then you have every right to remove him from your house. By the same token, this website is Nicklfire's property - he owns it, so he sets the rules. If he says that you can't openly complain about a business on BCAquaria he has every right to do so.

Again, you are free to complain about businesses on your own (or public) property on your own time and no government authority can limit or prevent you from doing this. And it is this right which is enshrined in section 2(b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.


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## Diztrbd1

Nicklfire said:


> couldn't you picket outside the store
> peaceful rally.


that would probably get them to clean up a little bit, I would think or atleast hope


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## eternity302

fkshiu said:


> Let's get this straight: "Freedom of speech" has nothing to do with a website controlling complaints regarding businesses. You are free to start your own website and complain all you want about anything and anyone. You are free to stand on the corner of Robson and Georgia and complain about the poor business practices of big box chain pet stores. You are free to circulate your own newsletter complaining about the horrors of keeping bettas in little plastic cups to your heart's content. That is "freedom of speech".
> 
> "Freedom of speech" does NOT entitle you to come on to someone else's property and say things that the owner does not want you to say on his/her property. Look, if you invited someone into your house and he started swearing his head off, you have every right to tell this person to stop doing so. And if he doesn't, then you have every right to remove him from your house. By the same token, this website is Nicklfire's property - he owns it, so he sets the rules. If he says that you can't openly complain about a business on BCAquaria he has every right to do so.
> 
> Again, you are free to complain about businesses on your own (or public) property on your own time and no government authority can limit or prevent you from doing this. And it is this right which is enshrined in section 2(b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.


LOL! I'm not sure if the typing sounds extremely angry, or if it's just the internet again!
But honestly, as I said in the very beginning, I hoenstly dun think much would change the business no matter what you do.. Im just wondering if that's considered freedom of speech!
Anyways, the debates definitely over for me, you guys can go through with it and carry on  I'm definitely no here to argue with anyone over any matter at all! Just dumpin my two cents once again!


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

Nope, Franklin is NOT angry. Just stating the law as it pertains to this topic.


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## budahrox

*I Must*


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## Nicklfire

budahrox said:


> *I Must*


Is that richard dean anderson


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## Mferko

since we arent allowed to say names are we allowed to say locations?
im kind of curious where this is since richmond is close and i dont want to end up going there.


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## josephl

Mferko said:


> since we arent allowed to say names are we allowed to say locations?
> im kind of curious where this is since richmond is close and i dont want to end up going there.


Based on the original posters comments with regards dead and rotting fish, I think that if they hadn't cleaned up their act, you would know you were in the store being talked about and if they had, then by all means, buy from them


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## plantedinvertz

Mferko said:


> since we arent allowed to say names are we allowed to say locations?
> im kind of curious where this is since richmond is close and i dont want to end up going there.


Pretty big store.
Big yellow/green sign in bubbly letters
Near a taiwanese food store.


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## Mferko

is it on number 3 road between landsdowne and aberdeen kinda by the old petcetera and superstore


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## thefishwife

budahrox said:


> *I Must*


I'm with you


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## neven

just head over to yelp and write a review


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## kelly528

Well I checked out their website and the chain clearly cares about their corporate images so I for one will be writing them a note about this particular location and about how they could do WAY better.


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## Edarion

o ya. I figured it out... I went in there once saw the same horrible conditions. Complained to the manger. Who assured me that they would fix the issue. Came back several months... Same crap still there.
Decided to write a letter to their head office....and this was March

Havn't heard back from them since.


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## jobber

You guys are right. i went by and took a look see. there are quite a number of questionable tanks. it's not right.


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## cichlid

I hate going into stores and seeing dead fish. 5 snot nosed high school kids, standing behind the counter, no one looking after the fish...I have even seen dead salt water fish in a store. i understand fish die, but if your conditions are right... you would think a store dealing with salt water tanks would have a " set up" system for them. I'll bet there was 5 dead fish.


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## punchbuggy

if you want to slander. do it on yelp. they don't give a damn!  just send us the link


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## RDonald

The manager of the store called me...interesting conversation. Here is a summarized version:

- Didn't believe that the problem was as bad as I was stating, said that he was off for two days. I replied that with rotting fish in tanks and betta bowls the neglect seemed to be going on for much longer than a couple of his days off.

- Claimed that the feeder goldfish tank was having some filtration issue and it was already looked after. Odd, the tank had been brutally dirty for a few weeks prior...

- Said that a staffer was doing a water change on the show tank with the fish in distress while I was in the store. That was an outright fabrication, the only staffer in the department that I spoke with was not doing anything at the time and clearly didn't have any clue what was wrong with the tank when I spoke to her every so briefly.

I made it clear I wasn't going back, he indicated that their business was mainly geared at the beginner market rolleyes like that was some sort of excuse for the conditions or something. I let him know that the folks who spend all the money in this business are those like us, the true enthusiasts and his store was missing a huge opportunity.

I don't want to go back but I almost feel obligated to go back and check to see if they actually fix anything....

blech

Ryan in Richmond


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## jobber

I had to go by to check it for myself. I walked passed the pond, it smells. The water looks like a goldfish pond in china (and I've seen the ones in china where the water is just reeking of fish poop). The angelfish tank has like 6 dead fish. The back tanks have a serious algae bloom which is due to high nitrate/nitrite levels.

Bottomline, I was there to check it out myself b/c I didn't believe it at first.

Not too cool in my own opinion. Wasn't impressed.

Anyways. Sorry to start the thread up again.


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## effox

_Pets _should be treated better.
_SMART_ idea to write a letter.


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## icy.bing

^ LOL there u go


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## kelly528

Well the manager doesn't have us fooled!

Maybe as a group we could start something of a committee... not necessarily for pointing out bad pet stores (that would get us into WAYYY too much trouble) but for recognizing ethical pet stores, and making our recognisation of them public so that other pet stores would want to follow suit. I mean we would need to come up with a formal set of standards arbitrated by a diverse board of experienced hobbyists, store owners, maybe biologists and veterinarians but it would be cool if it caught on.


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## InfraredDream

Interesting that these stores differ that much in different location I've seen. And the conditions change sometimes in only a couple of months. I guess it all depends on the particular manager, I have no other answer for that.


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## budahrox

Nicklfire said:


> Is that richard dean anderson


Gotta love Mcgyver!! 



thefishwife said:


> I'm with you


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## effox

The Surrey location was fine the last time I went.


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## RDonald

I visit the PetSmart location on Marine (South Burnaby location) on a semi-frequent basis and they are usually pretty good. I see staffers cleaning tanks and doing maintenance and all that, generally the stock seems in good shape. I've talked with a couple of the more mature folks working there and they seem to know a lot about their stock...


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## DeeB

I believe it's not a PetSmart location this thread is talking about. The name does start with a 'P' though.

It's too bad that this is happening. I thought they were getting better because around Christmas time I saw that someone finally did someone about those poor bettas by putting them in betta barracks in one of the bigger tanks so they get heated and filtered water. 

I guess it was just too much work for them.


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## eternity302

DeeB said:


> I believe it's not a PetSmart location this thread is talking about. The name does start with a 'P' though.
> 
> It's too bad that this is happening. I thought they were getting better because around Christmas time I saw that someone finally did someone about those poor bettas by putting them in betta barracks in one of the bigger tanks so they get heated and filtered water.
> 
> I guess it was just too much work for them.


WOW, I left this thread for awhile not reading...

And yes.. you're absolutely correct, it starts with a P and it's not petsmart cuz they do a WAY better job compared to this store! If Petsmart's fish wuz given grade A, these guys are a complete fail~

After reading what the manager said... WOW.. they are absolutely clueless on how they're taking are of the place!
Excuses excuses! btw, the feeder fish tank.. it's been like that for months.. not just weeks... Even though they're only gong to go home being fed... they still shouldn't be treated like crap at the store..


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## big_bubba_B

alot of these stores have no clue and the personal are not trained at all in anything . there is a few stores in calgary that suck also and yes they start with a p also . and also has the word land in it . mixing fish in tanks that should not be . fish floating and decomposing . i think private people who have awsome fish should be doing more advertising , is stores like this that give new comers a bad taste in there mouth .


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