# turtle filtration/tank help



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

THis is my first post. So ill start off by saying "hi".
This is a long post, but please bear with me if you have the time to read it.

Anyways, i didnt see a section for turtles, so im just going to post my question up here.

Main question: why is it so hard to keep my water crystal clear? When the lights are on, the water looks almost murky green. With lights off the water tends to be a bit more clear.

First off, i wanna start off by saying that the tank i have now is quite small. im using it because it was donated. and ill upgrade to a rather bigger tank in the future as they grow.

I have a 30-36G tank. 3 turtles- a mississippi map (~2"), razorback musk(~1.5"), and a malayan snail eating turtle (~1").
Fish: 1 green spotted puffer ~1", some sort of pleco ~3-4", and 4 neon tetras.
I know it isnt ideal to be keeping turtles with fishes as theyll end up being food, but its just more amusing to look at now.

Equipment: uva/ubv bulbs and heat lamp above basking area, heater, 2 fluval 2plus filters, 1 fluval u3 filter.
In each of the filters i have the normal foam filter that it came with in there as well as carbon filter and floss in each.
I have a bag of those carbon ammonia removing rocks sitting in a bag at the bottom of the tank.

Supplements that i use/add: Nutrafin product to get rid of chlorine, nutrafin bio-degrader, cuttlefish bone to trim turtle beaks, calcium rocks for turtle shell.

Food: reptomin, nutrafin tablets for my bottom feeders, blood worms.
Everyone in the tank seems to be feeding off these 3 different types of food quite well so far.

I have no substrate in the tank so i can easily fish-out left over food and poop that the filters dont pick up.Although sometimes i wish i had substrate just cuz i hides everything.
i literally fish-net poop and crap in the tank DAILY because im anal about having crap float around.

Currently i have my water filled up roughly 75% and doing water changes roughly once a week, or even 5 days. 
If possible, my goal is to change the water maybe once a month or even 2 months, but this almost seems IMPOSSIBLE!

This is actually my first aquarium, so please bear with me and any advice/inputs will be taken into consideration.
Thanks in advance for any help 

p.s, does anyone know how big my future tank will have to be to mainly acommodate my 3 adult sized turtles, and perhaps my pleco and puffer if they survive?


----------



## snow (Apr 21, 2010)

hi-revs said:


> THis is my first post. So ill start off by saying "hi".
> This is a long post, but please bear with me if you have the time to read it.
> Welcome to BCA.
> 
> ...


Your fish will become food. It may work but really the odds are 10-1.


----------



## snow (Apr 21, 2010)

My answers are in red.


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

Thanks for the quick info.
I heard that the lights need to be on for 8hours every day to simulate the sun.
and no, my tank isnt anywhere near direct sunlight...

would a canister make THAT much of a difference even if i have these 3 filters in there?
Do you think i'll be able to stick with these filters until i upgrade to a bigger tank in the future?
From what i've read in researching for canister filters, theres really only a limited number of them that i can change the flow rate. and most canisters give off 150+gph.
this would cause a hurricane effect in my small tank and blow the turtles all over the place.


----------



## JTang (Apr 21, 2010)

IMO, your tank is fine with the 3 little turtles, but eventually you will need a much bigger tank... at least a 90gal. And yes, keeping fish w. turtles are not recommended. Turtles are messy eaters and big poop producers. Your fish will either end up as their snack or get posioned by their poop! 

You should invest on a canister filter, which can handle a way bigger bio load with all the extra media you stuff in there (XP3/4 is my choice). Doing more frequent water changes will definitely help. I will say 50% every 2-3 days. Don't overfeed them! Cut down on the hours of light. Also, does the tank get any direct sunlight? You water will turn green in no time if it does... In this case, you should consider relocating the tank. 

Hope this helps!


----------



## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

I agree with everything snow said.

The immediate concern is how overstocked your tank is. The three turtles and the pleco are pooping machines. The GSP will also grow quickly, increasing the bioload. You are also only filling 75%, so that means you really only have ~25g of water.

IMHO, you would need at the bare minimum a 100g tank to house the three adult turtles, bigger if you want to continue keeping fish although by that time, all fish are likely to be food.

I too enjoy keeping fish with turtles. I have rosy barbs with a newly acquired 3.5" Reeves and so far, she does not seem interested in them at all. However, I am prepared to and would not be surprised to find some missing some day. In other words, don't put fish in there that you are attached to.

As for your green water (probably algae bloom), try the things snow suggested. If that fails, you could get a UV sterilizer if it really bothers you but they are quite expensive. Maybe Purigen might help as well. Not %100 sure on that but I have a bag of Purigen in my canister and the water is crystal clear.


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

my ultimate question: do canister filters really make the water THAT much more clear? and isnt the flow pressure too much from canisters for my size turtles in my size tank?

i really dont want to part with my 3 submersible filters yet since i just bought them not too long ago, and for the price of those 3, i could have bought 1 decent canister filter


----------



## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

I think people were recommending you get canister filters to help with the bioload, not with the green water problem.

Do you have any lights over the tank other than the UVA/UVB? If you do, you may have to put that on a separate timer and reduce the hours even further.

To fight the green water, I would do daily 50% water changes until the water is relatively clear. Also reduce the lighting period to maybe 6 hours, but keep your UVA/UVB light on for the same amount of time. I personally keep my UVA/UVB on for 11 hours. Make sure that there is no left over food when you feed. You could also try feeding the turtles outside the tank to help keep it cleaner. If you do that, you need to make sure there is enough water to cover their heads because they need it to swallow.

You also definately need to continue with weekly 50% water change if not more. If you feel water changes are a pain in the arse, look into getting a Python No Spill water change kit. It makes water changes so easy you have no reason NOT to do weekly water changes.


----------



## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Oh, forgot to add, most canister filters have the option of a spray bar with greatly reduces the force of the flow by spreading it over a greater area.


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

i have a uva/uvb bulb, plus a normal house bulb for heat in the basking area. both are on a timer for 8hrs everyday. aside from those 2, theres no other lighting.

Only one of my turtles will eat out of the tank. the other 2 wont.
p.s. when i tried to feed them out of the tank, they would just eat up all the fish food when i go to feed the fishes.

would u say that i defiantly need the canister filter right now? Or can i wait and get it when i upgrade the tank??
btw, whats bio-load?


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

btw, i have lots of algae growing on the carpet mat.

the story: i made their basking area with plexi-glass, and due to its surface being slippery for the turtles to walk on, i covered it with some kind of reptile carpet that i bought at BigAl's. and ontop of the carpet i have a rock as their actual basking spot.
algae is growing on the carpet like crazy. but the pleco does eat what it can. Theres no long strands of algae.
There isnt long/big algae floating around thats noticable if thats what you mean.


----------



## Crazy_NDN (Apr 21, 2010)

do you have the basking area submerged in water? if so it does not need to be, the reptile carpet is not meant to be kept under water. when i had turtles i built a cage like box on top of the tank with egg crate, and made a ramp from the water to the "land" area i made. the uva/uvb bulbs only really need to be over the basking area, if you do have it over the entire tank this will result in green'ish ugly water. as the light is pretty intense. so for the water half of the tank you can put a regular t8 bulb. your water could be green cause of an algae bloom from all the turtle and fish poop and excessive lighting. but if you get a canister filter it will not be too strong for them and even if you feel it will be you can put a spray bar attachment on it to distribute the water across the tank. for now keep doing daily water changes until it looks more clear. i would suggest upgrading your filtration. and then keep doing weekly water changes.


----------



## thefishwife (Apr 21, 2010)

I agree with everyone's suggestion, too. Filteration is a big part for turtles, they are messy, messy, messy, if you don't have the proper filtration, turts won't be happy, your nitrates will go through the roof. I am guessing your water is green from the filteration as well as lights as the others have said.

As snow said you will NEVER be able to do monthly w/c, it should always be done weekly.

We have a 12" female cooter turtle in a 135Gal tank with *2* *XP4's* running on the tank, to keep up with her mess.

Your basking area should be out of the water, as they need to dry their shells out, so as not to get shell rot.

Pics of your tank would be great to see and your turts!!!

Welcome to BCA. I do know a great turtle forum if you are interested just shoot me a PM.


----------



## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

ngo911 said:


> I agree with everything snow said.
> 
> The immediate concern is how overstocked your tank is. The three turtles and the pleco are pooping machines. The GSP will also grow quickly, increasing the bioload. You are also only filling 75%, so that means you really only have ~25g of water.
> 
> ...


+1 for purigen, if another cannister isnt in your budget you could probably throw the purigen in someones old aquaclear 20 that you can get used for cheap


----------



## architeuthis (Apr 22, 2010)

Get a canister filter. 
The bigger the better. 
I've never used intank filters before, but,they don't seem to have much filtering ability from what I have seen.

I have 5 map turtles in a 210 gallon tank and do a 50-75% water change about every week.

I'm using FX5's on my 2 biggest tanks and the water is crystal clear and has never made any smell.

Look into making an "above tank basking area" "ATBA" so you can fill your tank completely and have more water volume for the turtles.


----------



## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

If the only lighting you have are the basking lamps over the basking area, then it is probably excess nutrients (fish food and fish poop) in the water that are causing the green water.

Therefore, you could try reducing the amount of excess nutrients by:

- doing more water changes
- reducing the bioload (removing some fish)
- reducing the feedings
- adding purigen to one of your filters (supposedly reduces the amount of dissolved organic wastes in your water)


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

alright everyone. I took everyones consideration into account....
and bought myself a RENA XP3 today and just hooked it up 
Was gonna get the XP4, but maybe ill hold off on getting that until i upgrade the tank.

So now, i have everything the same as i mentioned before except for the addition of the xp3, and i took out one of my fluval 2 plus just to make a bit more room in my already cramped tank 
Still have 3 filters running.

btw, the carpet is submerged in water, but i have a rock that sits ontop of the carpet which is completely dry to prevent shell rot. But oddly enough, only my malayan turt goes on to bask. The other 2 doesnt, especially my razorback. The razor back is super shy most the time. He just barley sticks his nose out of the water to breathe.

and, here are some pics. Hope you enjoy and any further recommendation would be great.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

And my puffer:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

now how would i know that my xp3 filters need cleaning?
theres no indicators on the canister itself.
would i need to open it up from time to time and check? seems like a lot of work, and having to spill water on my carpet


----------



## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Great looking turtles and good choice of filter. You won't regret it and you can use it when you upgrade the tank. You water doesn't look bad at all so you must have done a good water change.

You should consider cleaning your filter when you notice a reduction in flow. Or once a month is usually a safe maintenance schedule. If you do it properly, you shouldn't spill any water at all. It quite easy actually. You just flip up the hose latch and that will stop the water from flowing down your intake/outtake hoses. Then you remove the filter and do whatever you need to. Make sure that when cleaning your filter media, you rinse it in old tank water and only clean 1 tray at a time so that you don't risk losing the beneficial bacteria.

Remember, you will still need to do weekly changes.


----------



## Crazy_NDN (Apr 21, 2010)

looks good, just move the basking area's up a little above water and your set.


----------



## thefishwife (Apr 21, 2010)

Crazy_NDN said:


> looks good, just move the basking area's up a little above water and your set.


I second that, the top part of the basking area has to be completely out of water, for them to dry their shells out.

Tank looks great, I am glad you don't have substrate in it, it can be quite harmful to turtles.

Your turtles are sooooooooooo cute!!!! Do you see any aggression between them?

Its a very nice tank you have there, and your water looks great. And as stated you will still need to do weekly water changes of 50%, to keep your turtles healthy.

Thanks for posting pictures!!!!


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

^^ Thanks! They are cute. No, i havent noticed any aggression yet, and hopefully i never will.
The dock that i made from plexi glass and the carpet cover IS under water, but the actual basking platform is completely out of water. Its a big piece of flat rock that sits ontop of the carpeted plexi glass


----------



## thefishwife (Apr 21, 2010)

Glad to hear the basking area is above and out of the water. It is quite possible that you will see agression as they get older, alot of ppl say you shouldn't have more then 1 turtle in a tank b/c of the agression its definitely one debateable subject. 

But if you have a very big tank as they get older you should be Ok.


----------



## Crazy_NDN (Apr 21, 2010)

thefishwife said:


> Glad to hear the basking area is above and out of the water. It is quite possible that you will see agression as they get older, alot of ppl say you shouldn't have more then 1 turtle in a tank b/c of the agression its definitely one debateable subject.
> 
> But if you have a very big tank as they get older you should be Ok.


sometimes your lucky like i was and you get a male and female that always try to breed like guppies!


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

im really hoping that theyll be able to live together forever so itll minimize my work in setting up another tank 
I bought 2 all at the same size. added my map a couple months later, all the same size so im hoping that they wont fight. But my map has defiantly out grown the other 2 since she tends to swim around constantly when im sitting there watching her  and she'll go after all the food, so i take her out when im feeding the others from time to time.


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

i bought them at roughly the same time and the same size, so i hope they wont fight.
Plus i think i might have read somewhere that same breeds tends to have a higher chance of fighting?
if anything i think my map will be the agitator since shes the one going for all the food all the time. (i take her out sometimes when i feed them, and let the map go for the scraps )


----------



## thefishwife (Apr 21, 2010)

thats most likely why your map is bigger b/c she is getting all the food and pushes the other 2 out of the way. thats just what they do, quite possibley the agression is there, and you don't see it. turtles are GOOD at hiding agression towards other turtles. 

but they are so darn cute!!


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

Dumb question, but if I did notice real physical aggression in the future, should I seperate them, or is there another solution?


----------



## thefishwife (Apr 21, 2010)

Not a dumb question at all, you WILL have to separate them, b/c the dominate one will push and shove the other ones around, and it could likely kill the other ones. 

I don't know of another solution then the one above.


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

icic, isnt pushing and shoving ok though when theyre going after food?

...or would it be ok to just take out the more aggressive one when its feeding time, and feed her separately so the others can eat, then throw her back in?


----------



## Crazy_NDN (Apr 21, 2010)

yeah they will push each other around a little during feeding its normal. but when they try to bite each others feet or what not is when its getting aggressive. also my turtles used to help each other when they where shedding by pushing against each other and rocks.


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

good to know, i havent noticed any feet biting.
but ill keep a look out for that. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## thefishwife (Apr 21, 2010)

yes the feet biting is big watch out for that, OR if the dominate turtle continuously pushes the other turtles into a corner and won't let them out or even one turtle. Another sign of agression.


----------



## hi-revs (Nov 3, 2010)

ive added aquarium salt into my tank, and was wondering if its a good idea.

reason for adding salt is because i want to prevent bacteria growth, shell infection-so i hear, fungus, and maybe keep the water clearer.

Now would salt be bad for fresh water turtles in the long run, or do they just not care?
because i know that my spotted puffer prefers a bit of salt.

obviously my turtles are a lot more expensive than all my fishes, so theyre my first priority in maintaining this tank.

im using about 2 tea spoon of salt per 25G water. and i plan on adding 1 tea spoon every time i do a 50% water change.
Is that too much? or is it ok?


----------



## thefishwife (Apr 21, 2010)

I can't say I have heard using salt for turtles, but there is alot of info out there both good and bad.

Is your water not clear? as you had said that was one reason for using salt. I find when our water is on the cloudy side, its b/c the PH has crashed and once I put in the crushed coral into the filter within a few days I see results, just had to do that a few days ago.

I will try to find out about the salt.


----------

