# Oops, they did it!



## Grete_J

In the spirit of creating new threads, less classifieds, I thought I'd take the time to do a (hopeful) daily breeding journal.

I sold off my breeder collection of axolotl's, but kept my favourite girl Nancy, as well as (I'm kicking myself for naming him) Laverne. I didn't think Laverne was sexually mature at this age, guess I was wrong. I'm guessing that most people wonder why axolotl's are priced so high from small op breeders, it's the insane amount of time it takes to raise them, right from the egg. As well as the fact that they're almost extinct in the wild, CITES listed, making importation almost impossible.

*Day 1 - November 26, 2011*

Crap, found eggs. Spent 30 minutes fishing them out of the adult tank & setting them up with an airstone in a 2 gallon.


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## Diztrbd1

Laverne?? lol Congrats....guess your back in business again soon eh? lol


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## monkE

congrats? lol


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## Ebonbolt

Talk about unplanned pregnanies eh? :lol:


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## Grete_J

*November 27, 2011 - Day 2* - There they are, nothing much going on. Embryos start to elongate





















Diztrbd1 said:


> Laverne?? lol Congrats....guess your back in business again soon eh? lol


Yeahhh, named the pair Laverne & Shirley  I'm not sure what I'll be doing with this spawn


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## Grete_J

*November 28, 2011 - Day 3* - Still looking like little embryo's. Slowwwly looking more banana-like, but nothing to write home about


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## Grete_J

*November 29, 2011 - Day 4* - This is when the anticipation starts to build. The embryo's are growing at different rates, a few (early bloomers) taking on more shape while the majority still look like misshapen eggs


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## monkE

very cool, keep the updates coming!


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## neven

I always assumed they were high price because they were mostly imported, now i know better


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## Grete_J

*November 30, 2011 - Day 5* - Yay the gills are developing with some!





















neven said:


> I always assumed they were high price because they were mostly imported, now i know better


I dunno, a $1500 - $1700 CITES fee just to import seems pretty hefty to me. Figure that the last bunch of leucistics we had was our 4th shot at them. First 3 spawns went bad after 2 months. That was still 2 months of daily 100% water changes (individually, not 1 tank) & daily BBS hatcheries only to lose 3 spawns.


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## djamm

okay, you've done it again... Yeah!!!

I think you should post and document what it takes to raise these cute little ones. Personally, I think they are super cute!!!

Cheers and all the best.....


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## Grete_J

*December 1, 2011 - Day 6* - They have gills!! Sort of. Either way, some are really starting to develop, some still not so much and time to suck out the eggs that went bad





















djamm said:


> okay, you've done it again... Yeah!!!
> 
> I think you should post and document what it takes to raise these cute little ones. Personally, I think they are super cute!!!
> 
> Cheers and all the best.....


Thanks Drew, but I think mom Nancy deserves a bit of credit 

I'm hoping I'll be able to keep up documenting this. It's 14 - 21 days from spawn to hatch, hatch to "I have legs" (front only) varies, but around 30 days. We haven't sold one younger than 3 months because we want to make sure they're established.... so this could potentially be a loooong breeder blog


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## Grete_J

*December 2, 2011 - Day 7* - The larvae are a lot more developed now. Gills are obviously gills and the body's elongated. We've lost over 100 eggs that either weren't fertilized or went bad


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## Grete_J

*December 3, 2011 - Day 8* - They're starting to twitch & move in their egg sacs. Our place is averaging 75°F & their tank has been placed closest to an outside wall to ensure that water is around 70°F. Hopefully it's not too warm that they're developing too fast. Found 4 more developing eggs in the adult tank hiding


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## Grete_J

*December 4, 2011 - Day 9* - One's already hatched out, 6 days early. Most of the others are squirming & wiggling in their eggs









This photo you can see the larva that's already hatched out. The one not curled in a ball.


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## mikebike

Do the ones that hatched try to eat the other unhatched eggs?


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## Grete_J

mikebike said:


> Do the ones that hatched try to eat the other unhatched eggs?


Not that we've seen, no. The unhatched ones are still protected by the eggs. Once more hatch out, we'll have to separate though


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## monkE

wow they're really coming along! great job with the pics


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## Grete_J

*December 5, 2011 - Day 10* - A second larva has hatched. The brine shrimp hatchery is set up, running & will be ready for them by tomorrow night. Expecting the majority of the eggs to hatch in the next 3 days at this rate










Larva hatched out. See him?


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## mikebike

well done they look great


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## Grete_J

*December 6, 2011 - Day 11* - 5 have hatched out. Spent approximately 20 minutes catching the larvae to move them to a separate container so they can start feeding on baby brine shrimp










2 of the 5 larvae


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## Grete_J

*Deceber 7, 2011 - Day 12* - 11 more hatched out, spent approximately 25 minutes catching them. They're being separated in groups of 5 in plastic containers. First 5 that hatched yesterday got a 100% water change. Daily baby brine shrimp hatchery still bubbling


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## Grete_J

*December 8, 2011 - Day 13* - 16 hatched out today, 21 eggs still left to hatch out. All larvae moved to petri dishes, got 100% water changes & baby brine shrimp


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## Grete_J

*December 9, 2011 - Day 14* - 16 more hatched out today, 3 underdeveloped larvae died. 2 still left to hatch out. 100% water changes & baby brine shrimp done! Will have to take photo's when they're full of brine shrimp, you can see the bright orange bellies


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## Grete_J

*December 10, 2011 - Day 15* - both eggs went bad, 1 larva died, 49 alive & full of brine shrimp after their 100% water change


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## Grete_J

*December 11, 2011 - Day 16* - 1 larva died, count is now 48. As usual, baby brine shrimp & 100% water changes. This is the part where it looks like they're not growing & I'm taking photo's for no reason


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## Grete_J

*December 12, 2011, Day 17 *- Count still at 49!! Larvae slowly growing.


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## TomC

Great pictures. How do you keep the petri dishes cool?


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## Grete_J

TomC said:


> Great pictures. How do you keep the petri dishes cool?


Thanks Tom, we have the petri dishes near the window where it stays the coolest


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic

Thanks for keeping us updated. Very cool project but seems quite labour/time-intensive.

Anthony


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## Grete_J

*December 13, 2011 - Day 18* - 1 larva died, down to 48. Notice their bellies that are bright orange & full of baby brine shrimp?










Can you see this guy's heart?











SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Thanks for keeping us updated. Very cool project but seems quite labour/time-intensive.
> 
> Anthony


Thanks for reading Anthony and everyone else! Makes this seem far less tedious keeping a daily journal of their growth  Raising these guys is super time consuming & the reason we attempted to get out of breeding them. Still unsure as to what we'll do with these ones.


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## beN

i must say this is pretty cool! keep it goin


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## AWW

Looking great~~!!! Cant wait to see em when they are just a little bigger! I have wanted one for so long


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## djamm

This is a cool thread! I agree keep us updated on the growth and development.

Cheers 

Drew


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## Grete_J

*December 14, 2011 - Day 19* - No casualties today! They're attacking their food with far more vigour now


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## April

Very cool! Alot of work but worth it. Thanks for doing the journal for us.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.275064,-122.835515


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## Grete_J

*December 15, 2011 - Day 20* - 1 more died, 46 larvae left. You can really start to see their digestive organs developing via side profiles. See 2nd photo


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## cichlid

Thats soo cool!


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## Grete_J

*December 16, 2011 - Day 21* - No dead larvae today! Axolotl larvae are usually transparent for the first while, until the skin has thickened and pigment cells have increased. Until then, we're unable to tell what colour morphs they are










Can you see this one's growing an arm or leg? Which is is?!


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## djamm

could you post something next to the dish to get an idea of their size ;-)

cheers 

Drew


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## Grete_J

:bigsmile:


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## Grete_J

*December 17, 2011 - Day 22* - No fatalities!! Lots (46) of bellies full of BBS 










As per Drew's request (it only makes sense  ), at least one photo will be taken with a penny for size comparison


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## petfishloversclub

they grow fast.


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## Grete_J

*December 18, 2011 - Day 23* - Nothing new, all alive.


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## TomC

Good pictures. Is that penny underneath the dish? Copper can be poisonous to some things.


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## djamm

great pictures, how often do these little ones get water changes? great diary.


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## Grete_J

TomC said:


> Good pictures. Is that penny underneath the dish? Copper can be poisonous to some things.


Funny you say that, when I first started taking photo's with the penny, Samantha asked the same. I put the petri dishes on top of the penny 



djamm said:


> great pictures, how often do these little ones get water changes? great diary.


100% water changes are done daily with each petri dish. 2 larvae per dish would be 23 water changes....

Thanks for the feedback


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## Grete_J

*December 19, 2011 - Day 24* - No dead larvae, they're growing fast this time around!


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## Grete_J

*December 20, 2011 - Day 25 *- No dead larvae, nothing new aside from growing appetites


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## Grete_J

*December 21, 2011 - Day 26* - Great streak of luck & still no more dead larvae! They're quickly outgrowing their petri dishes & will need new takeout (?) containers soon


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## Morainy

This is really amazing! I only discovered this post tonight, so the axolotls are almost 26 days old. I have never seen anything like this in real life. It's such a lot of work! The photos are fascinating and educational. Thank you for sharing them!


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## Grete_J

*December 22, 2011 - Day 27* - No dead larvae  On the lookout for new containers for them as they're growing like crazy. Any ideas? Their front legs have started to come in!










Can you see his front arms?


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## teija

Wow! I didn't see this thread until now but it is fascinating to see the progress. They are growing so fast now! It must be a lot of work, but in a very rewarding way. Fingers crossed for you that this batch is your most successful yet (and wouldn't that be the way? Just when you were going to get out of it...).


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## IceBlue

Dec 19, Day 24, first picture is "awesome". Thank you for posting this great thread.


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## Grete_J

*December 23, 2011 - Day 28* - Still 46 larvae alive  New batch of brine shrimp eggs has a much higher hatch rate (90%) which is great since every morning their petri dishes show no traces of brine shrimp



















Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback, it definitely makes this daily journal/blog suck a lot less



teija said:


> Fingers crossed for you that this batch is your most successful yet (and wouldn't that be the way? Just when you were going to get out of it...).


Yeesh, dunno if I want to go through that again! Although I am super curious since we haven't done a leucistic to golden albino pairing!


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## TomC

Amazing that they all are surviving. You must be doing everything absolutely right!


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## Grete_J

*December 24, 2011 - Day 29* - No dead larvae! They've almost all got front arms in! This spawn is proving to be very hardy & fast growing.





















TomC said:


> Amazing that they all are surviving. You must be doing everything absolutely right!


Thanks Tom  I think the petri dishes make a difference. Better grade plastic vs what we were using before (take out containers) & less disturbances when doing the daily water changes.


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## Grete_J

*December "Merry Ho Ho" 25, 2011 - Day 30 *- No dead larvae, yet again. These guys move like stink as they get bigger. Will still need to figure out a system in the next few days as they're quickly outgrowing petri dishes


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## mikebike

Have you thought of using the styrene take out containers
like the 250 gram sour cream ones only clear, also drinking cups. Safeway and Save-On use them for deli foods.


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## neven

beer cups ftw!


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## Grete_J

*December 26, 2011 - Day 31* - Once again, no dead larvae. All are still receiving daily 100% water changes & being fed baby brine shrimp



















I appreciate the suggestions of the next size containers, but I do have to wonder if the plastic possibly leeches something into the water, or retains more bacteria? We'd used takeout containers previously, which was when we had more problems, now that they're in (past tense) sterile petri dishes, we haven't had much bad luck


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## neven

have you considered mason jars? atleast you can sterilize them


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## Grete_J

*December 27, 2011 - Day 32* - No fatalities & they've almost outgrown their petri dishes 





















neven said:


> have you considered mason jars? atleast you can sterilize them


Never even thought of that! I'm gonna go looking tomorrow!


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## raygen168

Wow, nice job on the diary. Keep us updated.


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## Grete_J

*December 28, 2011 - Day 33* - No fatalities, all bellies full of BBS. Excuse the horrible photo's, I'm too tired to take decent ones


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## mortava

Just caught up on this thread! Glad to see axies again! 
The one I got from you is huuuuge now! I love him!


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## Grete_J

*Deceber 29, 2011 - Day 34* - 1 fatality, 45 larvae alive. They're starting to nip at each others' appendages & will have to be housed separately in the next few days, making daily water changes suck a lot more.





















mortava said:


> The one I got from you is huuuuge now! I love him!


You should take pix!! I'm glad to hear he's doing well


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## Grete_J

*December 30, 2011 - Day 35* - No fatalities, yay! I think. Someone else wanna take over the job of raising axy larvae?

Notice his/her gill filaments & front arm?


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## jobber

This is a great journal from the onset of the spawn Grete. How many eggs are there on each spawn? You're very diligent and patient rearing them so meticulous. I saw Pat caring for his batch and seeing them grow to maturity. Glad to see the species successfully breed.

Sent from Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


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## Grete_J

*December 31, 2011 - Day 36* - 1 more larva died, we're down 45. They've been temporarily relocated to bigger condo's. They're now in 1 bedrooms (rubbermaid's) as opposed to bachelors (petri dishes) 





















jobber604 said:


> This is a great journal from the onset of the spawn Grete. How many eggs are there on each spawn? You're very diligent and patient rearing them so meticulous. I saw Pat caring for his batch and seeing them grow to maturity. Glad to see the species successfully breed.


Thanks  Pat actually got his larvae from us almost a year back, they were from our only wild type spawn. Number of eggs laid ranges. With the wild type spawn, we had approx. 450, with the leucistic spawns, we've averaged 200.


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## Grete_J

*January 1, 2012 - Day 37* - No fatalities today! We're trying them with frozen bloodworms to see if they show any interest. Usually once they have full front arms, their sense of smell develops & they're able to get switched over to bloodworms


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## jobber

Great pictures Grete. Now onto google to read and learn more about them. Those are good spawning numbers and hope they're continually breeding domestically.


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## Grete_J

*January 2, 2012 - Day 38* - No fatalities, we must be doing something right! We're slowly transitioning them from brine shrimp to frozen bloodworms. Once their full front backs legs are in, they'll no longer be considered larvae & graduate to juvenile


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## Grete_J

*January 3, 2012 - Day 39* - No fatalities & we're all onto bloodworms!! No more daily BBS hatchery!! This is our fastest growing spawn ever, they'll be ready to find homes in no time!










Can you see the bloodworm through his head?


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## BubbaGump_59

there looking good!!!


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## neven

now if only these guys stayed the size of a pea puffer!


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## Grete_J

*January 4, 2012 - Day 40* - No fatalities, everyone's completely onto bloodworms! The 28 day mark is usually the deal breaker. At that time, there's always a HUGE die off of larvae, which is a PITA after you've spent 28 days giving them 100% daily water changes & hatching BBS daily. In the past, we've had upwards of 30% die. I didn't want to mention it until we were out of the clear, which we seem to be


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## Brisch

I think my bunny wants some axlotols....the leucistic kind


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## Grete_J

*January 5, 2012 - Day 41* - Still got 45 of these little guys  All growing like crazy from the abundance of bloodworms!










Notice the back leg bud?


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## Grete_J

*January 6, 2012 - Day 42* - No fatalities & they're eating more bloodworms than expected. Theoretically, some of these guys can be sold once their full back legs/toes have grown in, as they'll be considered juvenile. We like to keep them for a few weeks - months longer, to make sure they're super established










Note the difference in size/growth? The one on the left is the one I've been photographing for the past month & a half. He's got full front arms & mostly developed legs. The smaller one barely has his arms in & no legs


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## Grete_J

*January 7, 2012 - Day 43* - No fatalities, a few have grown their full back legs & toes in. They can be upgraded from larvae to juvenile now  They'll be ready in no time!










Can you see his skull?


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## neven

wow, when do you upgrade their holding areas


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## Grete_J

*January 8, 2012 - Day 44* - No fatalities. 4 have been separated due to cannibalism which means that 4 have lost a hand or a toe.





















neven said:


> wow, when do you upgrade their holding areas


We usually upgrade slowly as they grow. They have to stay in smaller "enclosures" until they're able to find food on their own. They're being separated when we notice that their roommates are missing appendages. All are still getting 100% daily water changes, so water quality due to space constraints isn't an issue


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## TomC

Grete_J said:


> They're being separated when we notice that their roommates are missing appendages.


 Wow. Talk about the roommate from hell.


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## Grete_J

*January 9, 2012 - Day 45* - No fatalities & most have been separated due to... domestic abuse? They should be ready to go within 4 weeks.


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## Grete_J

*January 10, 2012 - Day 46* - No fatalities, nothing fun, just growing 










Can you see my organs?


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## Morainy

Just amazing! And so cute!


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## mcrocker

Will they grow back any of the missing appendages?


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## IceBlue

mcrocker said:


> Will they grow back any of the missing appendages?


My thoughts exactly.


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## Grete_J

mcrocker said:


> Will they grow back any of the missing appendages?


Absolutely! Axolotl's are known for their regenerative abilities. They'll grow back missing arms, legs, gills, parts of their brain, etc...


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## Grete_J

*January 11, 2012 - Day 47* - Daily 100% water changes x 21 containers. Soon we'll have daily 100% water changes x 44!!










Can you see my food?


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## Grete_J

*January 12, 2012 - Day 48* - Still alive, still eating & pooping up a storm. Will start separating them individually over the weekend










Remember how big he was when I first started taking photo's?


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## Grete_J

*January 13, 2012 - Day 49* - No fatalities, big surprise  The one I've been photographing is growing at the same rate as most of the others. Some are a bit bigger, some are a bit smaller. Either way they're no longer considered larvae as they're a small replica of adults. Tomorrow will be my last post as their development from egg -> larva -> juvenile has come to an end


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## Grete_J

*All grown up*

*January 14, 2012 - Day 50* - All 44 axolotl juveniles from Nancy & Laverne's (still kicking myself for naming him) first spawn are doing amazing. They're all averaging 2", feeding on frozen bloodworms & brine shrimp. They able to go to new homes now, but we always keep them until around 3", or around 1 month to ensure they're 100% established.










Nancy - Mom









Laverne - Dad


















Thanks for following my journal & all the great feedback! If for some reason, someone's formed an attachment with the one axolotl I've been photographing, let me know & we can talk about her/him


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## jirunta

Haha omg I love the last picture of the mom and dad looking at each other. Absolute cuties!!


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## Grete_J

Yeahh.... unfortunate that with their crap eyesight, dad mistook mom for food & startled her in an attemt to suck up what he thought was food  
No harm done though


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## Diztrbd1

Kameko, this has been a great journal, though I only commented on it once I have viewed it everyday and thoroughly enjoyed it. Hard to believe its been 50 days already. Since I am stuck at home recovering from one crappy cold, my boredom led me to do something on the 50 day mark of this thread...hope you enjoy it :bigsmile:


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## jobber

Nancy has some gorgeous blue eyes.

Sent from Samsung Mobile using Tapatalk


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## monkE

wow I havnt looked in on this thread in a while, amazing how fast they grow! great job keeping the updates coming Kameko! good to hear there are still no fatalities.


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## Grete_J

I think you may be the awesomest (I realize it's not a word!) person yet John!! Thanks so much, I love it!

If by chance you're wanting one of these guys, maybe the one pictured (?), let me know


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## Diztrbd1

Grete_J said:


> I think you may be the awesomest (I realize it's not a word!) person yet John!! Thanks so much, I love it!
> 
> If by chance you're wanting one of these guys, maybe the one pictured (?), let me know


lol your very welcome & far too kind. I don't think awesomest is a word.....but sounds good to me lol :bigsmile:
Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Just seen it with the music for the first time, can't believe the timing of the music was perfect length for the vid. Music selection is pretty lame on youtube,so hope it wasn't too bad of a song choice for it. Thanks again for providing a great journal so that we could see the development of these guys


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## djamm

Great diary, thanks so much as I have really enjoyed it. I am only curious what are the requirements to successfully keeping axolotl's? I can tell raising them has been a lot of work!


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## neven

lets just hope they end up being worth the work they are to raise


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## Grete_J

djamm said:


> I am only curious what are the requirements to successfully keeping axolotl's? I can tell raising them has been a lot of work!


Almost the same requirements as Elle's goldfish :bigsmile: 10 gallons per adult axolotl, fine substrate they can't ingest (or bare bottom), neutral ph, temps at around 65.



neven said:


> lets just hope they end up being worth the work they are to raise


From a business standpoint, with the amount of time & $$ spent on them, their food, equipment, containers, etc... it's not worth it. From a hobbyist breeder standpoint, someone who is getting emails from people all over Canada who want to buy from us, not their local breeder because they feel as though ours are healthier.... that makes it worth it


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## Grete_J

He looks like this now:


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## crazy72

Very cute! 

Great thread.


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## mortava

They look great - so cute!  Excited!


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## Grete_J

Quick update on the kids. Little dood, the one I'd followed from day 1 is HUGE! Compare his 1st day out of the egg to now! Rather compare his 7th day out till now as that's when Drew suggested the great penny idea.


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## Grete_J

They're massive.... and selling quicker than I thought 

Can't believe no one so far is interested in "little dood"


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## Diztrbd1

That's the same one that's in all the other pix?


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## Grete_J

Yessir it still the same "little" guy! We stuck tape on his tub so we'd know who was who


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## Diztrbd1

That is too cool! He'll be full grown in no time. Need to give him a name lol be time for another vid before too long lol


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