# 'Where to go from here?; - My new hobby.



## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I have always enjoyed watching fish in an aquarium. Even though almost every one that I saw growing up fascinated me and they probably weren't even high-tech beauties that I have seen while researching this hobby. Nonetheless, I have ventured into the fish keeping hobby to a more advanced degree than in my childhood.

First off, I started with a tank about 7 or 8 years ago and had issues with keeping things regular and, at the time, I did not understand the importance of a consistent schedule. I kept a few Gourami (Opaline) and some Barbs. I used simple gravel substrate and what I believe was a UV light from a lizard tank I got from a family member. I had pieced together this hobby over the years and slowly increased the size of the tanks I have kept. I tried out some Java Fern as a beginner plant and had great success but I got it from someone with their own tank and he said it would grow in anything I put it in after his care with it. He was right, it did very well.

Over the years, I neglected my tank and slowly moved away from the hobby from lack of time and commitment. I have picked it up again from time to time but never went to in-depth with the type of fish, water parameters, plants, substrates, lighting, etc. I had no idea these beautiful tanks I was seeing online had so much care and planning to get them where they were.

Recently, I read a ton of information online about all of these important parts of the hobby and I found a 120G tank that I picked up for 200 dollars with 1 Aquaclear 110 and an underground filtration system. It came with a couple heaters and 1 T8 fixture. First, I tried to figure out what I wanted in a tank. PLANTS! I had always loved the idea of water plants. Next, I decided to look into the basics: lighting, substrate and fish. I needed something to build around or maybe even find a balance between all of these to suit my desires.

I had to build a stand during this time as well so a few things I probably rushed to fast and didn't read enough about but I have had some success so far. Here are the basics to my tank that has been up for around 8 or 9 months now. I don't regret my decisions but i have learned enough to understand a few things I would change if I decided to do a tear down in the future but that wont be for at least 2 years or more.

My setup:

Lighting: 4xT5HO ballast with 2x6500k Life-Glo, 1 4100k bulb from Home Depot, and 1 18000k Power-Glo. (Currently only running the 2 Life-Glo's on a 4 on, 3 off, 5 on siesta schedule)

Filtration: 2 Aquaclear 110's with modified intakes with 1/8 inch holes drilled on some of the sides (had a huge problem with clogging when I used to have Java moss)

Heaters & Temperature: 2 x 300W and steady temp of 82F (slight fluctuations of course from day and night)

Substrate: Dirted tank (not my favorite for aquascaping but has been awesome for plants and there root systems) 1 1/2" dirt capped with 1" pool filter sand

** I had thought about doing a Walstead tank but later my ambition took over and I was tired of waiting for results**

The tank sits 24" high. Lights are built into my open hood (good ventilation) about 6 inchs above tank.

Plants: Water sprite, Jungle val, Ludwigia, Amazon sword, Crypts, Cobomba (I think), Giant Hygrophila (tank could use more plants probably but most are doing quite well), Dwarf Hairgrass

Recently started dosing excel to battle some algae (BBA is all gone and wasn't much to begin with) Green hair algae looks to be under control but still on plants. I have a few pieces of driftwood aI found and treated myself. Dosing Flourish started just a few weeks ago and some Potassium as well. No CO2 at all which I am thinking is partially the cause of some of the algae problems I am battling.

Water parameters: pH = 6.4-6.6, dkH = 1.7-2.0, dgH = 2.7-3.0, Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 10-15ppm (this is max it gets before I do 50% weekly water changes)

Tap water here is soft as all of you on the west coast must be aware of and I have begun to get a little more in-depth with these parameters and their importance in plant growth and fish health in general. The tank doesn't get much natural light and I tried the siesta period to keep CO2 levels more stable even though its probably still low. The excel has melt a bit of the Jungle val but I have been skipping the big doses on water changes to keep it to a minimum (I did an overdose to kill off some algae and my val suffered.

Fish: 3 Discus (2 around 2-3" and 1 around 3-4"), 6 Bosemani Rainbows, 8 Cardinal Tetras, 3 Glowlight Tetras, 1 Bristlenose Pleco, 1 Red-Tailed Shark (Fully grown at 6") There is zero problems between the fish except a bit of dominance from the bigger discus to the smaller one as they are the most recent additions. They have all been together for about 3 weeks and it's very minimal and from what I read they develop a pecking order and I don't see it as being detrimental to there stress levels so far. All of the fish eat well and are fed regular flake, pellets (discus), and frozen bloodworms. I alternate feedings every day. Currently, I have been feeding lightly flakes in the morning and alternating between big flake and pellet feedings and frozen bloodworms every other day. I do not overfeed and if I feel I put in too much I skip the morning feedings for a day or two.

The algae is my biggest worry right now. The siesta period was an attempt to help raise CO2 levels without going pressurized. (still think I am too inexperienced for that and need to brush up on some chemistry) I have defeated the BBA by adding flow and spot dosing excel but the hair algae seems to be a bit more problematic. It isn't crazy but it is making my dwarf hairgrass look dirty and unnatural. I have read so much info I felt it was time to start asking more specific questions to help identify what I can do to keep it under control. I am not completely unhappy with the results so far since I have got this far without any fish losses nor plant loss. The growth is steady with Excel doses but I wonder if there is something else I could be doing to make these fish even happier than the are already.

To be clear, I understand the mixture of fish may be a bit odd but I assure you the shark does not bother my discus in any way and he occasionally will chase the rainbows around but I rarely see it. I think he just enjoys having a lot more room than the 30G he was kept in at the LFS.

I have probably left out a few things but I figured it was a good start for my first post here and I look forward to any advice you could offer.

Thanks!


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

Hello,
Wellcome back to the hobby

thanks for providing the much needed information on your tanks/setup and inhabitants

I suggest adding 3 or 4 otos
Types of Algae

I found I could partialy control it by splitting up my lights to 6hr on 4hr off 6hr on starting at 6 am

I also found some mollies in my community tank chowing down on it


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for sharing.I would consider using pressurized co2 with a tank that size.I know excel works well in smaller Aquariums but in the long run you will be getting more co2 to the plants as opposed to growing algae.Other than that I think you are doing everything right.Stem plants are also good to compete with algae by taking in the co2.You will need to find the balance with lighting and co2 without gassing out your fish.Best of luck with your tank and hope to see your addiction continue.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Picture of the tank as of today.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks for the encouragement. I do enjoy this hobby very much. One day I will move towards pressurized CO2 but for now it's a bit out of reach. Any suggestion on where to find a decent setup that doesn't cost me a week on the couch?


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

I got mine at J and l Aquatics in Burnaby.However you can find great deals on this site from other members.you will need to find a place to have your tank filled.Tank is looking good but you will find a huge growth difference with pressurized co2.There are lots of members selling trimmings cheaper and better than local pet stores.You can check out J and l website to get an idea on cost.Keep in mind the tank needs to be hydro checked every 5 years.


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

Great job on the stand.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Ok so I had amazing luck today and found a CO2 setup locally. It's a 5lb tank with everything except a way to add it to the tank. Should I use a reactor for my size tank? I may need a little insight for initial setup. Super excited now.


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

Does it have a Regulator with a solenoid?Solenoid enables you to connect the co2 regulator to a timer.I do not use a reactor for my 75 gallon.I use a ceramic diffuser attached with regular air line tubing.You will need to clean the diffuser when you start seeing the bubbles are slowing down.I suggest you start without one to start.I also started with a co2 indicator to give you an idea on how much co2 is going into the tank.You eventually will not need it but it is a good investment to start.If you could post a picture of the setup I can get a better idea.


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

I know some people attach the co2 to their power head intake.I place my diffuser beneath the powerhead so that it blows across the tank.You want to get the finest bubbles as possible and have them stay in the water as long as possible before dispersing to the surface.The co2 indicator has a liquid you put in that turns color.Yellow is too much co2 and blue is too little.The green color is what you are aiming for.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

This is the exact setup.
AQUATEK regulator with solenoid. All I have to do is connect tubing to bubble counter and get a diffuser and drop checker.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Spongebob said:


> This is the exact setup.
> AQUATEK regulator with solenoid. All I have to do is connect tubing to bubble counter and get a diffuser and drop checker.


That's a great looking tank and that's definitely a serviceable CO2 kit - nice find! 
I personally recommend a reactor for a large tank - a diffuser really isn't going to distribute CO2 properly throughout the tank. It also helps with the efficiency of dissolving CO2 which means fewer refills.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Reactors only work with canister filters though correct? I am stuck with 2 HOB Aquaclear 110's currently. I had intentions to buy a canister filter but opted for this CO2 setup instead ($200) at a steal of a price. It's is less than 3 months old.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I was planning on a diffuser for now and attaching it directly in the middle of my tank. I have a Fluval circulation pump in the middle to keep the flow in the tank somewhat uniform (325gph i believe). It is pointed downwards on an angle and it should push the bubbles around the tank very well. The two HOB filters are on each end of tank. So far I am not sure how all this is going to effect my pH and I am going to start slow anyways. If I don't get great adsorption its not gonna be that big of a deal until I get the rest of it down. This is my first CO2 setup so I am more excited to get things growing and at this point any co2 is going to help the plants. 1BPS is what I am aiming for to start. My kH is low here. I do not need a large pH swing and kill my fish. I am going to monitor it every day for a week with a diffuser and see how steady it remains. I may need to get some buffering agents to raise kH to prevent this type of problem. My pH out of the tap is 6. Tank is 6.5. dkH is around 1-2. I am going to be very careful about this..... Can anyone tell me about the gauges and what the regulator should be set to to start off? I understand one is tank pressure and other is outflow pressure and than needle valve for fine tuning of bubble output. Any help would be awesome. Thanks for everything so far all.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Tank pressure indicates how much CO2 you have left.
Outflow pressure you want to start very low. 

SPECIFICALLY with using a diffuser, the way I dial in my CO2 is in this way: open up your needle valve all the way, but loosen up your outflow pressure on your regulator all the way (so the pressure is very low). Slowly start tightening up your outflow pressure knob (so pressure is increasing) until you start to see bubbles. Technically (and the safest way), you're supposed to just dial in pressure until you get the # of bubbles per sec you want. But personally I find the # of bubbles on a day to day basis inconsistent since you are only providing just enough pressure to get bubbles through the lines - any type of blockage (ie dirty diffuser, water in the lines, dirt in the co2 tank, etc) can change the # of bubbles from one day to the next. What I like to do is balance the needle valve and pressure outflow so you get about 20 PSI. 

This means closing the needle valve and increasing outflow pressure. To start I say aim for 2 bubbles per second. You have a big tank and HOB filters can cause enough turbulance on the surface of the tank to cause CO2 off gassing so technically you will probably want to add at least another bubble per sec later on. 

To give you an idea of how much CO2 you can inject into your tank safely - I inject 3 bubbles per second into my 50 gallon tank and 2 bubbles into my 30 gallon tank with my fish showing no signs of discomfort. 

That being said work within your comfort zone and ultimately providing your plants a little CO2 is better than none. The only time you'll start to learn that you may need to inject more CO2 is if you start to keep CO2 hungry plants. 

Don't forget to set your CO2 and light on a timer. 

Finally once you've dialed in your bubbles per second and outflow PSI I strongly recommend that you be around to see how much CO2 is injected the following day when your lights/CO2 come on via timer. Check your set up for 1) consistency and 2) leaks at least 2-3xs a day for the next 2 days - assuming you don't find any problems. If you keep the PSI around 15-25 PSI I'm sure you won't run into any problems. 
If you one day decide to use an atomizer to inject CO2 then I recommend asking for advice again since it requires a bit more caution on set up.


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

Great deal on the co2 setup.not sure what the meters should be but as long as there is preasure and your tank is not empty.I would suggest getting the co2 indicator.They are not too expensive and it gives you an idea on how much co2 is being put into your tank.You will be able to adjust your flow easier and decide if you need to add or decrease co2.In your case you need to worry about getting enough co2 into the tank withou gassing the fish.Check ou J and L Aquatics website and you will see what they look like.Looking forward to seeing your results.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I have fine tuned it to have 20 psi pressure on outflow with 1 BPS on bubble counter. Solenoid valve works good. I have 2 plugs on my timer for my lights, so I will be running the solenoid off the same timer. I hear some run there co2 a bit early to have optimal co2 levels when the lights turn on but I don't feel I need to go that far as of it. For now, I am adding co2 and that will help at any level I think.

Does anyone know how much this may change my pH in my tank? My kH is low but present at 1-2dkH. My pH is already a bit lower and my tap water is lower than my tank. Any suggestions in this area?


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Most hobbyists say that you can expect to see your ph drop to nearly a full 1.0 even with some buffering if you are aiming for ideal co2 parameters. If you are injecting a conservative amount then you should see a smaller change in your ph parameters. 
Just to give you an idea: 3 bubbles per second in my 50 gal with kh 3ish, I see my ph drop from 6.9 to 6.2. My ph probe is getting to about 3 years old though so I don't expect it to be very accurate. All I'm looking for is an expected decent sized drop in ph after 4 hours of injecting co2.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

And the fish can handle that much of a change? I expected them to handle somewhere around 0.5 of a change but 1 is a lot. That's 10 times more acidic. I am starting slow too and my kh is lower then yours. Now Im slightly worried but I guess it's a trial and error process to some degree.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Can anyone recommend a drop checker? Not going as far as some with a ph controller. I got given an ISTA drop checker with the blue liquid but it instantly went green and I'm unsure what it's ranges are. I checked out JL Aquatics and they have one there....


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

So it's been about 2 days since I've had co2 pumping. Plants look like they enjoying it but I guess my next step is to look into some dry ferts. If my nitrates are around 10-15 ppm, should I be dosing other macros to bring them up to similar levels. So far just potassium dosing from Seachem line only.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

One more question and I'll get some tank updated pics in. 

I have an ISTA Drop checker and at first I didn't think it was working but I tried leaving my co2 running for a bit after lights out just to see. It was about two and a half hours after lights out that I noticed that sweet spot lime green. Now, with respect to light levels, is this not getting this color during the day because I am not adding enough co2? Is 2 t5ho 6 500k bulbs enough light with those levels? Should I try adding more co2 and light eventually? I realize all tanks have a balance but this being my beginning of adventures with co2, can I safely do this sooner than later. Fish seem to be perfectly fine but I thought if I get closer to that balance than I may have my plants out competing that algae I have been fighting. Am I on the right track?


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Definitely some new growth.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

More pics of growth.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I noticed a lot if dirty plants and wondering if it's algae or just mulm. It doesn't rub off super easy but it kind of does. Almost looks like hair algae that has caught a bunch of fish poop. I tried adding 3 cherry shrimp today a little over an inch long. Hopefully it doesn't turn into an expensive lunch for my Discus.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm beginning to really worry about the hair/thread algae after a closer look. It seems to be growing faster with co2 which makes me nervous. 

Here is an update on that.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

For comparison, here are a few shots before this post began about 2 days priori think.

What could I be missing in terms of balance? Nitrates are good. Co2 is looking good now. Potassium doses. Should I be worried?


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## randylahey (Jun 25, 2013)

With that much light and co2, you're going to need to look at doing some sort of dosing regime. You mention nitrates, kh and gh but, what are your phosphates and other parameters at? What are you dosing and are you adding any buffers? 
Co2 injection drives up nutrient uptake so chances are that you're bottoming out on something then, plant growth is inhibited which creates an environment that makes algae thrive.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I haven't got a test kit for phosphates. On my list for sure. I have heard fish food can add a lot too so I have been feeding sparingly the last month at 1 bigger feeding per day. Dry ferts are the way I wanna go and the cheapest I think. I can get an EI for 30 dollars too so I may have to find a way to get it done. My plan currently is to remove as much as possible this weekend again. I plan to cut the val short and scrub the wood clean and any other leaves I can then follow up with a water change. No buffers so far except for 1 kh booster dose which was to offset the ph drop from adding co2. My ph hasn't changed at all since co2 and if anything risen a bit. Checked today and it was at 6.5 To 6.8. My tap water is at 6 though so i do smaller water changes more often lately. Everything seems normal minus the algae Taking off.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Unless there is something else in your tank that is increasing pH it is chemically impossible to have your pH go up if you are injecting any decent amount of CO2.
Do you have any coral, shells, rocks in your tank? Are you adding any alkaline buffers?
Generally speaking the health of your plants is inversely related to the health of algae. If algae is blooming then we have yet to improve the conditions for plant growth in your tank.
I still think its very likely your macro levels for your tank is good though it'll be nice to get some idea of what your phosphate levels look like.
I do think you have enough lighting. But I think you should stick to a straight 8-9 hour regiment for your lights. Don't use a siesta period - there's no decent evidence that it helps your plants. However, we do know that plants need time to ramp up photosynthesis - algae take much less time to adjust. 
I also think that you should try dropping your water temperature - 82F is a bit on the high side. For most plants, the ideal temperature for them is around 75 deg. So try dropping your temperature to 78 and see if you get some improvements.

I still think you need to bump up your CO2. Do a 20-40% water change every week. Vacuum the mulm that builds up on the substrate and on the plants. Try to manually remove as much of the hair algae as you can.
Also, clean your filter if you haven't done it within the last 3 months. 
Unfortunately with battling algae balance and prevention makes life easy. When you get a bloom of the stuff then that's when there's work to do.

Edit: dang - I just read that you keep Discus. It won't be a good idea to turn down the temperature then. To be honest - traditionally, planted tanks and discus haven't really been compatible. That being said I haven't kept Discus yet. Perhaps some other guys who have tried the planted Discus tank endeavor can chirp in.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Reckon said:


> Unless there is something else in your tank that is increasing pH it is chemically impossible to have your pH go up if you are injecting any decent amount of CO2.
> Do you have any coral, shells, rocks in your tank? Are you adding any alkaline buffers?
> Generally speaking the health of your plants is inversely related to the health of algae. If algae is blooming then we have yet to improve the conditions for plant growth in your tank.
> I still think its very likely your macro levels for your tank is good though it'll be nice to get some idea of what your phosphate levels look like.
> ...


I appreciate the advice and with Discus the temperature cannot be dropped much further. I honestly feel you are right about the dosing though. Perhaps they are a bit on the unbalanced side (must be missing something). I have been dosing Flourish for micros and perhaps I over did it with compared to the macros in tank. I keep reading too much iron is a common cause for hair like algae. Being a dirted tank too, I cannot help but think I am getting too much of something.

I ordered an EI dose kit from theplantguy.com. Should be here within a week. Then I can really get control of the nutrients properly. After that, if there is still algae then I can up my co2. The drop checker I am using is still showing blue but I did just do a 40% water change and a large dose of excel to try and keep algae under control until it gets here. I scrubbed all the wood down and cut the val down to 4 inches. Sucked up everything I could including all mulm and plant decay (there wasn't a lot). Overall it looks a lot better but I am still new to this co2 thing. I have been starting slow to make sure everything goes smoothly but perhaps you're right about the lack of co2 still. I was sitting around 1-2BPS for the first few days. Now I have changed to 2-3BPS. Drop checker fluid was changed yesterday after I was done cleaning up and its slightly green but more blue. It's an ISTA drop checker that I got for free and I was curious how long it takes for it to react to the co2 in the water. I would think it should have changed more by now or I am not putting enough in.

Here is the tank as of yesterday night.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Chances are the ISTA checker and fluid is fine but you can always check PH to see if there are changes there. 
There's likely decent macro in your water column especially if you've been dosing. If there is any issue with macros, it would be an unbalance of PO4 vs NO3 - there's been some evidence to show that an increase of PO4 drives your plants to need more CO2 and vice versa. I've done some messing about with dosing myself and I find that as long as you have SOME decent amount of macros in your water column (preferably with the NO3 to PO4 ratio of somewhere between 20:1 and 10:1), your plants will do fine. Your dirted tank will give you some buffering with regards to macros as well, as long as your plants have roots to feed from.
I still think the work needs to be done with managing lighting, co2, temperature and overall cleanliness of the tank. 

The issue with dosing excel is that you are keeping Vals, and killing plants will beget more organics in the water which leads to algae growth. I believe Bien Lim posted a link about the relationship of organics in the water and algae about a year ago... I'll see if I can find the link for you.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I've only been dosing potassium so far and maybe that's my problem. Dosing kit is on its way so maybe it'll bring a balance and more control.

I'm using the fluval ceramic diffuser as a cheap solution until I can afford a canister filter. I have it located in the middle of the tank with a circulation pump blowing the bubbles down against the front of the tank.

Here is a pic. It's about 6 inch above substrate and about 12 to 14 inches from top of water.


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## randylahey (Jun 25, 2013)

Heres what reckon was talking about, I had it sub'd.
http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79458 unfortunately, the guy is Czech and is in the process of translating his site to english. He says he'll be done at the end of spring. It is very informative.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Tons of good information. My phone translated most of it for me.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Is this BBA?


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Here isn't a lot of it but I'm starting EI dosing next week and would like to try and clean up a few things by Sunday before I start. I'll spot dose some h2o2 and see I guess.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I also am noticing a reddish color in new growth through the tank. I have read a few articles stating too much iron is cause of this. Some plants are reddish naturally though I guess? I have my dosing kit now. Going to make up some doses for a week at a time. Is it ok to premix dry ferts in small amounts so I can just pour them in? Or is it best to just add the dry stuff right in?


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Update. Starting to find a balance after two weeks of EI dosing. Running only 2 T5ho 10 hours a day now with no siesta. Had a big dose of excel kill one of my Discus. Upsetting but it really stopped the algae long enough to allow plants to out compete it. Plants look healthy.


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

Finally got a chance to get this tank scaped.


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## Chiumanfu (Oct 30, 2014)

The scape is looking great.



Spongebob said:


> Is it ok to premix dry ferts in small amounts so I can just pour them in? Or is it best to just add the dry stuff right in?


It's no problem mixing large batches. I make about three months worth at a time. If you are using csm+b you should add a little excel to prevent mold. If you are using flourish comprehensive, you should refrigerate it.


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## JTang (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks nice n clean!


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## Spongebob (Mar 15, 2015)

I think I'm getting close to adding more fish. Problem is I need some fish that are more reddish to make everything pop. The 2 discus are bluish. The rainbows are yellowish. The cardinals are more blue than red. And the shark only has a red tail. Thinking about serpae tetras but a little nervous to add more movement that may stress the 2 discus. Can discus handle some faster swimmers or should I stick to smaller fish? Don't want anything too big. Thinking of a school of 6 to 8 as my final addition to this tank. I plan to double my cardinal school too from 6 to 12 ish


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