# Arowana Gill Curl Surgery (Massage Method)



## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Well I bought Kenta's aros that have both it's gill curled and did a surgery on both the curled gills. I didn't do the traditional method of cutting the gills except the gill membrane as it look messed up. Then I did the massage method ON the gill plate by slowly massaging the curled gill plate back the way it was before. It may take time but it's a lot better than cutting the gill plate as gill plate don't grow back. I later used a fine sand paper to gently sand the edge of the gill plate even so when the gill membrane starts to grow it won't be messed up. I have done this method since 2004 and works out fine. Takes about 2-4 months for full recovery including the gill membrane which takes a long time to fully grow back to normal.

Here are some pics of the surgery.

Before









After the surgery
Upper view

























Right side

















Left side

















Will update again in 2-4 months when the gill membrane fully grows back.


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## snow (Apr 21, 2010)

Very cool method, thanks for sharing. The fish is probably like wtf are you doing? lol


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

snow said:


> Very cool method, thanks for sharing. The fish is probably like wtf are you doing? lol


Fish was sedated when I did the surgery.


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## target (Apr 21, 2010)

Nice work. I always find it impressive when people do surgery on their fish. A guy who posts on Simply Discus dropped a glass top into a tank and cut the tail on one of his discus. He stitched it back together. Put 3 stitches in it's tail and when it healed you couldn't even see where the cut had been.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

target said:


> Nice work. I always find it impressive when people do surgery on their fish. A guy who posts on Simply Discus dropped a glass top into a tank and cut the tail on one of his discus. He stitched it back together. Put 3 stitches in it's tail and when it healed you couldn't even see where the cut had been.


Lol! That's a good. Fish do have an amazing regeneration capabilities.

Word of advise to whoever wants to do it. Do not do a surgery on fish unless you know what your doing.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

fish dont have to use any energy to produce heat to regulate their body temperatures, this leaves lots for healing and growth


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

Wow! You are king el!!!


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

eternity302 said:


> Wow! You are king el!!!


They also call me the MAD SCIENTIST.


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## MananaP (Apr 22, 2010)

King-eL said:


> They also call me the MAD SCIENTIST.


No your not!


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

MananaP said:


> No your not!


Lol! When can I visit your place? I wanna do experment on your turtle so it will become the ninja turtle and start walking and carrying weapons.

How big is the FRT now? Getting 4 more this end of the month.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

Please try to make em talk as well! And the orange one (angelo) please make him dumb and have a bit of jokes!
Can you also train them to bury root tabs and prune my plants? =) If so, I will buy you 4 for the experiment! LOL~


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## H . (Apr 23, 2010)

King-eL said:


> Fish was sedated when I did the surgery.


Good job, Earl. how did you make fish sedated?


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## Kenta (Apr 28, 2010)

Good stuff! I see its been making friends lol battle scars give a fish character!


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## Adz1 (Apr 21, 2010)

wow very amazing...
as stated before this you are the King.......


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## MananaP (Apr 22, 2010)

King-eL said:


> Lol! When can I visit your place? I wanna do experment on your turtle so it will become the ninja turtle and start walking and carrying weapons.
> 
> How big is the FRT now? Getting 4 more this end of the month.


LOL you are not coming close to me turtle chump! He is doing really good, molted though i guess is he growing. I'm still trying to feed him some other fruits and veggies. His main diet now are algae wafers/sinking pallets/tomatoes/Romain lettuce/shrimp/smelt... For sure you should come see it and bring some beer while your at it LOL!


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

eternity302 said:


> Please try to make em talk as well! And the orange one (angelo) please make him dumb and have a bit of jokes!
> Can you also train them to bury root tabs and prune my plants? =) If so, I will buy you 4 for the experiment! LOL~


That's was the plan.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

H . said:


> Good job, Earl. how did you make fish sedated?


I used clove oil. You can get them in pharmacies.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Kenta said:


> Good stuff! I see its been making friends lol battle scars give a fish character!


It got beat up by my hbrtg and that's why it got those scar but it made look nice even more. lol! Might place a screw on the head and call this one Frankenstein aro, lol! JK JK....


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Adz1 said:


> wow very amazing...
> as stated before this you are the King.......


Lol! A king with less money. This hobby is making me broke.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

MananaP said:


> LOL you are not coming close to me turtle chump! He is doing really good, molted though i guess is he growing. I'm still trying to feed him some other fruits and veggies. His main diet now are algae wafers/sinking pallets/tomatoes/Romain lettuce/shrimp/smelt... For sure you should come see it and bring some beer while your at it LOL!


I might let you take care of the remaining 3 if no ones gonna pick them up right away.

As for the beer... just let me know when. It's getting hot now and lets have some BBQ.


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## H . (Apr 23, 2010)

King-eL said:


> I used clove oil. You can get them in pharmacies.


I'm planning to do a surgery on my 14" rhom. never use clove oil before, what's the dose you recommend? thanks.


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## MananaP (Apr 22, 2010)

King-eL said:


> I might let you take care of the remaining 3 if no ones gonna pick them up right away.
> 
> As for the beer... just let me know when. It's getting hot now and lets have some BBQ.


OT: BBQ sounds good with some beers, just had some earlier!


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

H . said:


> I'm planning to do a surgery on my 14" rhom. never use clove oil before, what's the dose you recommend? thanks.


You need to mix 5 drops of clove oil and some water equals to how many gallons/liters you will be submerging the fish. Best to mix them in a ziplock bag or a bucket. Mix them well and add them to the bucket or sink or any container where you gonna sedate the fish. Add an airstone to that container to let the mixture disperse. Watch it carefully and the gills will slow down and in about less than 5 minutes if it's still awake add another drop per gallons/liters. Do that mix on the ziplock again it will lay down or look dead. Remove the fish and place to where you gonna do the procedure. Just make sure that the fish is secure as sometimes they will wake up without warning and starts trashing around. Once the procedure is done place it back to the tank. Just hold the fish till it fully awake. Best to point the mouth close to the powerhead or you can insert an airhose inside the mouth that is attached to the air pump. It will wake up faster.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

MananaP said:


> OT: BBQ sounds good with some beers, just had some earlier!


On my pay check will have BBQ at your place. Book off 17TH.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Update


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## arapaimag (Jul 16, 2010)

King-eL said:


> Well I bought Kenta's aros that have both it's gill curled and did a surgery on both the curled gills. I didn't do the traditional method of cutting the gills except the gill membrane as it look messed up. Then I did the massage method ON the gill plate by slowly massaging the curled gill plate back the way it was before. It may take time but it's a lot better than cutting the gill plate as gill plate don't grow back. I later used a fine sand paper to gently sand the edge of the gill plate even so when the gill membrane starts to grow it won't be messed up. I have done this method since 2004 and works out fine. Takes about 2-4 months for full recovery including the gill membrane which takes a long time to fully grow back to normal.
> 
> Very well done.
> 
> ...


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## Chronick (Apr 27, 2010)

arapaimag said:


> King-eL said:
> 
> 
> > Well I bought Kenta's aros that have both it's gill curled and did a surgery on both the curled gills. I didn't do the traditional method of cutting the gills except the gill membrane as it look messed up. Then I did the massage method ON the gill plate by slowly massaging the curled gill plate back the way it was before. It may take time but it's a lot better than cutting the gill plate as gill plate don't grow back. I later used a fine sand paper to gently sand the edge of the gill plate even so when the gill membrane starts to grow it won't be messed up. I have done this method since 2004 and works out fine. Takes about 2-4 months for full recovery including the gill membrane which takes a long time to fully grow back to normal.
> ...


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

arapaimag said:


> King-eL said:
> 
> 
> > Well I bought Kenta's aros that have both it's gill curled and did a surgery on both the curled gills. I didn't do the traditional method of cutting the gills except the gill membrane as it look messed up. Then I did the massage method ON the gill plate by slowly massaging the curled gill plate back the way it was before. It may take time but it's a lot better than cutting the gill plate as gill plate don't grow back. I later used a fine sand paper to gently sand the edge of the gill plate even so when the gill membrane starts to grow it won't be messed up. I have done this method since 2004 and works out fine. Takes about 2-4 months for full recovery including the gill membrane which takes a long time to fully grow back to normal.
> ...


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## arapaimag (Jul 16, 2010)

Hey you are ahead of me.

I only have 2 Arapaima and one gator gar.

What size (tl) are your guys and how long have you had them?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

arapaimag said:


> Hey you are ahead of me.
> 
> I only have 2 Arapaima and one gator gar.
> 
> What size (tl) are your guys and how long have you had them?


The arapiamas when I left them at 2006 were already at 6 feet or more. The gators were at 4 feet. Hopefully they are still alive when I get back there this December. Arapiamas have cheaper price compare here in North America.

Here is the pic of the pond I house them. The net is to prevent the cats and small dogs from trying to get close to the pond as my gators accidentally ate some of my neighbor's cat when it was trying to catch the feeders kois that I feed them.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

THat is one intense pond!
Who feeds em while your away?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

eternity302 said:


> THat is one intense pond!
> Who feeds em while your away?


My workers back home.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Have you ever considered doing these procedures as a career ? Not too many qualified people out here that are in that field.Iam sure a few years of schooling and getting hands one experience with somebody, can lead to a promising position somewhere or your own practice.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Luke78 said:


> Have you ever considered doing these procedures as a career ? Not too many qualified people out here that are in that field.Iam sure a few years of schooling and getting hands one experience with somebody, can lead to a promising position somewhere or your own practice.


That just gives me an idea.


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

King-eL said:


> I used clove oil. You can get them in pharmacies.


You got to be careful with clove oil. I can't remember the other product you can use to sedate a fish but it is supposed to be safer. The problem with clove oil is it doesn't just make them go to sleep, it completely shuts their whole system down. Once or twice is probably ok but wouldn't do it more. Members on the pufferforum who used to use clove oil to trim beaks no longer use it they use something else now.

Found it lol, taken from the pufferforum library



> Clove oil is ok to use in an emergency, but if you plan on keeping your puffer for a long time (as we all wish to do!), please purchase tricaine methanesulfonate (also referred to as MS222) to tranquilize your fish. MS222 can sometimes be found under the brand names Tranquil or Finquil, with Finquil being available for purchase at the time of this writing at: Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies, Pet Meds | DrsFosterSmith.com Pet Products (see the sticky in the General Discussion forum on rebates)


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

taureandragon76 said:


> You got to be careful with clove oil. I can't remember the other product you can use to sedate a fish but it is supposed to be safer. The problem with clove oil is it doesn't just make them go to sleep, it completely shuts their whole system down. Once or twice is probably ok but wouldn't do it more. Members on the pufferforum who used to use clove oil to trim beaks no longer use it they use something else now.
> 
> Found it lol, taken from the pufferforum library


Thanks! Been using clove oil for a long time now and never had problems since you point it out and to be on the safe side I will try the safer product.


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## arapaimag (Jul 16, 2010)

King-eL said:


> The arapiamas when I left them at 2006 were already at 6 feet or more. The gators were at 4 feet. Hopefully they are still alive when I get back there this December. Arapiamas have cheaper price compare here in North America.
> 
> Here is the pic of the pond I house them. The net is to prevent the cats and small dogs from trying to get close to the pond as my gators accidentally ate some of my neighbor's cat when it was trying to catch the feeders kois that I feed them.


Nice pond.

Your interests are very similiar to mine, since I also have outdoor ponds but have only been fortunate to keep arapaima outside in one only when small (under 3') and only in my 28x18 pond over one summer.

I have -20 temperatures in the winter so tropicals have only a 3 1/2 month window to go in my outdoor ponds each summer. My Proptopterus annectens lungfish and my 26" Black shark (Morulius chrysophekadion) go out every summer into ponds varying from 8x8 to 18x8.

I do have a pond where I keep just goldfish and fat head minnows which provide me with disease free feeders when needed to feed baby monsters till I can wean them off feeders and onto makeral, smelt etc. It would be great for the monsters because it is a lined 100 feet long with a width varying between 40 and 60 feet and a depth starting at 4 to 5 feet and going to 20 feet deep at the deepest. But I can't put them in it because they would be too hard to catch in the fall.

Back to your excellent arrowana gill curl fix.

I was given a RTG because the owner did not like him anymore after he had butchered his gill with a razor blade.

The fish is in my 52k and has a wonderful personality. He is very active and often duels with the other RTG, Green and to a much lesser extent the 3 
silvers (37" to 44"). His fins are never perfect because of his skirmishes but he is a wonderful pet.

Again, thanks for this valuable thread


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

arapaimag said:


> Nice pond.
> 
> Your interests are very similiar to mine, since I also have outdoor ponds but have only been fortunate to keep arapaima outside in one only when small (under 3') and only in my 28x18 pond over one summer.
> 
> ...


Can't have a pond here in Canada even if I wanted to keep kois or goldfish for feeders. Raccoons and other critter will just snack on them during the night especially summer time.

Yes there are so many desperate attempts of asian aro hobbyist of fixing gill curl and without knowledge and no experience with the surgery failure becomes the result. Carefull gill anatomy research and observation first before attempting surgery. Also watching different people that done the surgery and the different result they have. Combine those knowledge and correct any errors and do the best you can to attempt the surgery.


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## arapaimag (Jul 16, 2010)

King-eL said:


> Can't have a pond here in Canada even if I wanted to keep kois or goldfish for feeders. Raccoons and other critter will just snack on them during the night especially summer time.
> 
> Yes there are so many desperate attempts of asian aro hobbyist of fixing gill curl and without knowledge and no experience with the surgery failure becomes the result. Carefull gill anatomy research and observation first before attempting surgery. Also watching different people that done the surgery and the different result they have. Combine those knowledge and correct any errors and do the best you can to attempt the surgery.


I actually live in Canada

My dogs protect the fish from ***** and to a fair degree from hurons etc.
I have 9 ponds that are protected by them and about 20 outdoor bird aviaries also.

My best dog died in May of old age, but she was so smart she even knew the differences between hawks, hurons, kingfishers etc.

I really only want squirrels, chipmunks, raccoons etc chased off the property around my ponds and aviaries but if they return the dogs will ace them.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

arapaimag said:


> I actually live in Canada
> 
> My dogs protect the fish from ***** and to a fair degree from hurons etc.
> I have 9 ponds that are protected by them and about 20 outdoor bird aviaries also.
> ...


Did have a pond before back when I used ti be in Burnaby but darn raccoon are just to smart. Didn't have a dog though and wish I have as I've been wanting to own a American Pit Bull Terrier or Perro de Presa Canario.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

New pics update. Gill membrane is now halfway healed.


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## Kenta (Apr 28, 2010)

Awesome, not growing back curled!


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Kenta said:


> Awesome, not growing back curled!


It just too bad that it fought a lot with the other aros and ended up with battle scars.


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