# Ban on Gars and bowfins? I hate the Government now



## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

This really pisses me off. Ban of importation of live Gars and bowfins in BC. WTF!!! Did they do there research before banning them? I just e-mailed them for why they are banning the importation and still waiting for a reply. 
Introductions and Transfers - Prohibited Species

If they are so scared that someone will release them in the wild then I don't think any gars or bowfin will survive the freezing temperature here in BC as well as the top of the water becomes frozen during winter times. Lowest temperature for Gar that they can tolerate is 52F and 59F for bowfins. Any below that and they are good as frozen fish in at a fish market. Also during winter times the top of the water freezes which will prevent the gars and bowfins to gulp air as both of them are air breather as they have a primitive swim bladder that acts similar to a lung. If they cannot get to the surface and gulp air they will drown and die. I'm not hating Kois or Goldfish but they can survive better in BC's water and can do more damage than gars or bowfins and they are still everywhere. BC government is now acting like the US government when it comes to fish. Soon snakeheads will be ban next. Only time will tell. Really pisses me off!!!!!!! 

Not sure if the monster fish show in discovery channel got something to do with this but coincidentally around the world such many countries are now banning GARS. WTF They are not even endangered or can kill people as even an alligator gar that can grow to 8-10 feet have no reports on attacking humans.


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## Nanokid (May 18, 2010)

thats fisheries and oceans for ya. should mention they are based in OTTAWA. they dont have a fisherie in Ottawa.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

The language is not appropriate for a family-oriented fish forum. Please edit it King-el or it will be closed & moved to the Holding Pen.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Nanokid said:


> thats fisheries and oceans for ya. should mention they are based in OTTAWA. they dont have a fisherie in Ottawa.


Not even sure when it was released. I did not see any bowfins and gars before in the list last year. This must have been recent.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> The language is not appropriate for a family-oriented fish forum. Please edit it King-el or it will be closed & moved to the Holding Pen.


Yep edited. I was just ticked off bad. Sorry couldn't helped it.


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## Keri (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm not surprised with the way things are going.

As a member of the reptile-keeping community I was quite saddened to see the list of species we could keep shrink dramatically with the installation of the new Controlled Alien Species act by the Ministry of the Environment last year. I was able to obtain a permit for the one species that I keep on the list but it's sad that I can never get another. 

I've noticed an increasing amount of shows featuring "evil" invasive species on Discovery and Animal planet, and while I of course don't agree with releasing non-native species I do think there is a way to still have responsible pet ownership for those who qualify.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Keri said:


> I'm not surprised with the way things are going.
> 
> As a member of the reptile-keeping community I was quite saddened to see the list of species we could keep shrink dramatically with the installation of the new Controlled Alien Species act by the Ministry of the Environment last year. I was able to obtain a permit for the one species that I keep on the list but it's sad that I can never get another.
> 
> I've noticed an increasing amount of shows featuring "evil" invasive species on Discovery and Animal planet, and while I of course don't agree with releasing non-native species I do think there is a way to still have responsible pet ownership for those who qualify.


The thing is they should done research before placing such fish in the ban list. First of all there are many speciea of gars. Only the spotted gar occur in South eastern Canada. The rest of them can't even survive the cold season. It just sucks.

BTW do you know where to get permits? I just e-mailed them and waiting fir reply. I cannot give up my tropical gars or I might be force to join the criminal club.


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## mcrocker (May 29, 2010)

*A bit silly*

This list seems unreasonable, and like it is not enforced very well... It lists tilapia, and all those live tilapia in TNT are imported are they not? It doesn't seem like it could be profitable to breed tropical fish for eating in our climate...

It seems like it only refers to a ban on importing the species and doesn't mention possession, so you wouldn't have to get rid of your existing gars under those rules, you just might not be able to get any more.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

mcrocker said:


> This list seems unreasonable, and like it is not enforced very well... It lists tilapia, and all those live tilapia in TNT are imported are they not? It doesn't seem like it could be profitable to breed tropical fish for eating in our climate...
> 
> It seems like it only refers to a ban on importing the species and doesn't mention possession, so you wouldn't have to get rid of your existing gars under those rules, you just might not be able to get any more.


That sucks!!! I got my 10 cuban gars at 12" holding at Montreal and already payed for them. So guess I can no longer get them. I really want those so bad. Waited 8 years for them and I just waited for nothing.


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## skrick (Apr 25, 2010)

sorry to hear about that this does not make sense for a ban on these fish I have gar too and i wanted to get more for my 135 guess not


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Is importation of fish under the CFIA now? I know that there was a switch and now the adherence to rules (right or wrong) is much more strict. I know that even some of our own vendors here have had issues with customs clearance and losing livestock while waiting.


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## H . (Apr 23, 2010)

King-eL said:


> That sucks!!! I got my 10 cuban gars at 12" holding at Montreal and already payed for them. So guess I can no longer get them. I really want those so bad. Waited 8 years for them and I just waited for nothing.


sorry to hear that, Earl.


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

If you feel that the government made an error, get the facts together as to why they were wrong, and organize other enthusiasts to write snail mail letters to the minister. Remember to use more diplomacy than your original post.

Steve


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## rescuepenguin (Apr 21, 2010)

King-eL said:


> That sucks!!! I got my 10 cuban gars at 12" holding at Montreal and already payed for them. So guess I can no longer get them. I really want those so bad. Waited 8 years for them and I just waited for nothing.


I would continue the process of of importing them, see what happens, you can always argue that you list you checked didn't include them, see what happens. Your efforts maybe fruitless, but since they are already in Canad, you might as well try.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

rescuepenguin said:


> If you feel that the government made an error, get the facts together as to why they were wrong, and organize other enthusiasts to write snail mail letters to the minister. Remember to use more diplomacy than your original post.
> 
> Steve


I send them an e-mail already and still waiting.


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## Marius (Sep 22, 2010)

King-eL said:


> That sucks!!! I got my 10 cuban gars at 12" holding at Montreal and already payed for them. So guess I can no longer get them. I really want those so bad. Waited 8 years for them and I just waited for nothing.


They are in Canada. All you need do is bring them over. Importing would be from out of .ca


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## Gul (Apr 21, 2010)

Marius said:


> They are in Canada. All you need do is bring them over. Importing would be from out of .ca


If you can't ship them all the way you might be able to "meet" them part way, not like you have to cross a board with em


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Marius said:


> They are in Canada. All you need do is bring them over. Importing would be from out of .ca





Gul said:


> If you can't ship them all the way you might be able to "meet" them part way, not like you have to cross a board with em


I'm trying to reason out with the government if they allow certain species of gars such as tropical gar and cuban gar since they are true warm water fish. So the fish can just stay there till further info I can get with the government. If nothing will change then who knows.


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## bowman00 (Apr 27, 2010)

In my opinion, banning this isnt right. I could see them banning Snakeheads *BEFORE* banning gars... just my opinion


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

bowman00 said:


> In my opinion, banning this isnt right. I could see them banning Snakeheads *BEFORE* banning gars... just my opinion


Since Ontario banned snakeheads already only a matter of time that they gonna ban snakeheads here too in BC. Well I'm done with college, moving back to the Philippines where I can have any fish that I want even sterlet. Gonna ship all my collections over there. No more BC for me on 5 years.


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## -DC- (Apr 21, 2010)

wow that sucks! Gov is bad for that...


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

-DC- said:


> wow that sucks! Gov is bad for that...


Acting like the US now.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

If they are in Montreal you aren't importing. Already in Canada. Theyarent gonna stop the box on the flight . 
It's just labelled tropical fish


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

April said:


> If they are in Montreal you aren't importing. Already in Canada. Theyarent gonna stop the box on the flight .
> It's just labelled tropical fish


I was thinking about that but need to clear something out first. Since they only listed the genus Lepisosteus is on the ban list and not the genus Atractosteus in the list. So the three giant gars is still considered legal but is still in question as I need to make sure if they are included as well.


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## -DC- (Apr 21, 2010)

i would NOT go asking them about Atractosteus, ignorance is what landed Lepisosteus on the list in the first place. ironically ignorance that their are 2 families of gar is likly whats keeping Atractosteus off the list.

Bringing that sorta detail too the governments attention will likely just cause them to adjust the ban to show both types of gar!

in the mean time get those cuban's in before they ad Atractosteus on , your breaking absolutely NO laws by doing so at this point.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

-DC- said:


> i would NOT go asking them about Atractosteus, ignorance is what landed Lepisosteus on the list in the first place. ironically ignorance that their are 2 families of gar is likly whats keeping Atractosteus off the list.
> 
> Bringing that sorta detail too the governments attention will likely just cause them to adjust the ban to show both types of gar!
> 
> in the mean time get those cuban's in before they ad Atractosteus on , your breaking absolutely NO laws by doing so at this point.


Yes I think I should do that.


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## sdfish223 (Jul 27, 2010)

King-eL said:


> Acting like the US now.


You have to keep in mind that many tropical species of fish, reptiles, birds, and other non-native wildlife can live quite happily in some states, and can cause major issues for the native eco-systems.

Just ask Florida, they are fighting all sorts of non-native species from green iguanas, to Burmese pythons, to lion fish and others.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

sdfish223 said:


> You have to keep in mind that many tropical species of fish, reptiles, birds, and other non-native wildlife can live quite happily in some states, and can cause major issues for the native eco-systems.
> 
> Just ask Florida, they are fighting all sorts of non-native species from green iguanas, to Burmese pythons, to lion fish and others.


Keep in mind that we are not in Florida and we do not have the same climate. I know the issues in Florida. You can even keep tropical fish outdoors but not here in BC.

Also I'm talking about gars. Yes I understand about bowfins able to survive in BC but all gars species being ban? That's BS!!!!


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Got the email from them and they actually took the idea from the US. Wow!!!!! They really did there research but not on the actual fish.


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## gmachine19 (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow! Just took the idea without even researching about the fish?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

gmachine19 said:


> Wow! Just took the idea without even researching about the fish?


They say it was raised concern on future introduction. That just sucks. One guy from the States released a gar and now it killed it for everyone in North America. That's why I hate irresponsible fish keepers. Instead of banning fish they should tag the fish and it may be expensive but let the people who buys the fish do the paying. I don't mind paying extra. That way they can control who got them and who release them.


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## Marius (Sep 22, 2010)

King-eL said:


> They say it was raised concern on future introduction. That just sucks. One guy from the States released a gar and now it killed it for everyone in North America. That's why I hate irresponsible fish keepers. Instead of banning fish they should tag the fish and it may be expensive but let the people who buys the fish do the paying. I don't mind paying extra. That way they can control who got them and who release them.


That is most likely the future of fishkeeping in what regards many "invasive" species. They are limiting the general access, demand will go up, then an agreement of sort will have someone drafting a commercially viable tagging system. It's all business in the end.

Get your gars now Ed. Safer to have them at your place than 5k km across the country.


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

I'm gonna sound like a total newbie asking this, I know it. But I guess it's worth a shot since no one is commenting on it.

The law at this point says no importing of the fish. What about breeding? If they're still in Canada then it's not importing at all. I'm not very familiar with this species, although if something like this can work out, and if someone has the time for it, I'm guessing said person could make quite the profit just breeding them if there's a high enough demand.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

raeven said:


> I'm gonna sound like a total newbie asking this, I know it. But I guess it's worth a shot since no one is commenting on it.
> 
> The law at this point says no importing of the fish. What about breeding? If they're still in Canada then it's not importing at all. I'm not very familiar with this species, although if something like this can work out, and if someone has the time for it, I'm guessing said person could make quite the profit just breeding them if there's a high enough demand.


They are hard to breed. Also you will be needing a large tank for it.


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

Ah. Total bummer then. I guess we'll have to wait and see if there's any chance the ban might be lifted. If enough people complain about it with logic to back them up, I don't see why they wouldn't.


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## Fish_Assassin (Feb 7, 2011)

The ministry of environment is only doing this because of people like this.

Maple Ridge News - Predatory fish


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## Luc (Mar 22, 2011)

Start breeding them! Black market baby! haha jk


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## keitarosan (Apr 21, 2010)

Hmm.... all the while I thought snakeheads are banned here in Canada. 

No more BC for 5 yrs Earl? You're moving back to the Phillippines? Wow, I wish I have that luxury man. Enjoy the tropical weather. I was there 3 weeks ago.


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## spit.fire (Jan 3, 2011)

so is it illegal to sell them? like say i came across 5 or 10 gars... can i legally sell them within bc?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish_Assassin said:


> The ministry of environment is only doing this because of people like this.
> 
> Maple Ridge News - Predatory fish


WTF!!!! Now I know why they ban gars now. Not only that that's a longnose gar which is a rare gar here IMO. And just by wasting that thing by releasing it instead of selling it to me. Lol! Really pissed me off even more. Ok time to alert the goons and hunt this bastard. He's somewhere around maple ridge right? Ok ok ok....

BTW that gar died due to the cold water.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

keitarosan said:


> Hmm.... all the while I thought snakeheads are banned here in Canada.
> 
> No more BC for 5 yrs Earl? You're moving back to the Phillippines? Wow, I wish I have that luxury man. Enjoy the tropical weather. I was there 3 weeks ago.


I've plan to move to the Philippines and stayed there ever since I graduated high school on 2006 but ex girlfriend and the fish is what made me stay here in Canada. But now they are banning the fish that I want. No reason for me to stay for long.

How was Philippines BTW. Heading there on January 3 for Stephen's weeding.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

spit.fire said:


> so is it illegal to sell them? like say i came across 5 or 10 gars... can i legally sell them within bc?


Not sure but best to keep it a secret. Lol!


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