# Fish flashing issues



## d.co (Dec 30, 2011)

Hi all,
Figured it was about time to post on here to get some other advice rather then my google searches...
Tank info: 33gal, plants in it are hornwort and javamoss, fake rock decor and a piece of driftwood. 
Filters are Tetra FS20-40 and a fluval 304.
ph - ~6-6.5 (only have wide range pH test kit)
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 20ppm
dGH - 7
dKH- 2
(test results are from yesterday after a water change)
stock: 8 rosy barbs.
Tank has been running since early January with the rosy barbs added in early february. Fishless cycle w/ ammonia.

Okay, problems started shortly after I bought 2 dwarf gourami's with one what I assume having some sort of parasite as it died less then 24hours after entering the tank (no appetite, one clamp fin with large red swells/sores on that side); returned the other dwarf gourami.
After the fish died, did a water change the next day (10%) rosies seemed fine, still their normal hyper eat anything they can selves.

It was also around this time that when testing my tap water i noticed it dropped to around 5-5.5 (again, wide range test...). I've read on here that our water is soft and acidic, but for the first month or two the water was testing with a pH of 6.5 and a dGH of 4.. I figured it was best to just not mess around with the water parameters and cause unnecessary stress on the fish.
So I after reading on here... I decide to pick up some buffers to make the water less acidic/more towards neutral and raise the pH, and bring the hardness of the water up as well. Picked up seachem alkaline buffer, and seachem equilibrium at the LFS and at the same time bought the two dwarf gourami's. Maybe a mistake as the gourami's are sensitive to water changes, but they were gone before I started using the alkaline buffer or equilibrium.
After the Gourami died, and I had returned the other.. I did my water change and started using the alkaline buffer and equilibrium.. adding just enough alkaline buffer to get the pH to a 6 (didn't want to raise it too much, I literally add one pinch), and enough equilibrium (4.5grams) to get dGH to 7.
Two days later I noticed the rosy barbs starting to flash.. Not a lot, but they were flashing. I went on a guess, which maybe I should have waited for further symptoms to appear, but I'm new to this and thought fish only flashed when they had ich or velvet... which I now know is wrong. Anyways, I had treated the tank for ich. (raised temp and salt) but even after 3 days I failed to see any white spots appear, kept going for the full 10 days just in case, and figured it would kill off anything bad in the tank. But every once in a while I would still find them flashing (or swimming straight down into bubble stream, which I can't tell if they're trying to relieve irritation or just playing)
After that was over I slowly let the tank temperature drop back down to 24C and started doing my water changes again (10% w/ just enough alkaline buffer/equilibrium to bring it to pH of 6 and 7dGH) it's been 2 weeks since that and I still see them flashing once in a while. In that two weeks I thought it might have been something in the water irritating them, so I cleaned out some of the filter media, changed activated carbon bag in the tetra HOB filter, and changing the water more frequently... but it still continues.
I am using water conditioner, don't know the type as it was given to me by a friend to use when he gave me this tank. But I am using the correct dose.. and the rosies were fine for the month prior, only thing that changed was the two dwarf gourami's coming in, one dying, and then being removed; and the addition of buffers.
Could it be adding the alkaline buffer/equilibrium is irritating them? Has anyone else had problems with it? What is the correct way to add it? I just try to dissolve it in a container and then mix it in with the water I'm about to use for water change.
Should I be using the acid buffer with the alkaline buffer to raise the dKH as well raise the pH?
I've read that poor water conditions can cause flashing, but in my mind the water conditions are good.
All 8 rosy barbs are still swimming around, get all hyper and come to the front of the tank when I go near it, no clamped fins, they all eat anything they can get their mouths on. (one exception, see below)
I'm lost on what to do...
Any advice? Sorry for the long story, trying to get all the information out there.

Also, Could over-feeding cause this problem? The exception that I mentioned above was yesterday after feeding them pinch of flake in the morning, and gave them one 3.5oz cube brine shrimp later in the evening; after feeding them brine shrimp three of them were just sitting around not swimming. No clamped fins or heavy breathing, but they were just sitting there. One was in the little rock cave and had a 1/2inch piece of poo sticking from him, looked normal colour... and was gone when I checked in on them next, and this morning/today they're back to normal. Constipated maybe? But I don't think that answers the flashing problem....

Thanks for any help!
Edit: the fluval 304 was just set up after my treatment for non-existant ich was completed.
Also found this...
Size of tank: 33gal
Type of lighting (include size of fixture): 24” T8, with LED moonlight strip. 
Duration of photoperiod:10hrs fluorescent light, 4 hours "moonlight" before and after fluorescent light turns on/off.
Type of substrate: Gravel
Frequency of dosing fertilizers (name them): Seachem flourish excel
Temperature of your tank: 24C
pH: 6-6.5
GH: 7
KH: 2
Nitrate levels: 20
CO2 source:none
How often do you do water change: 1-2 per week
How much water do you change: 10%
Type of fish and how many in the tank: 8 Rosy barbs
What do you feed your fish and how often: twice daily (flakes/granuales with every day or two one of the feedings being brine shrimp or bloodworms.
Do you have algae in the tank? Yes, brown algae on the bottom. Been told it's diatoms and will go away with time?
Description of your fish illness problem: Flashing.


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## d.co (Dec 30, 2011)

Bored, playing with my new gopro cam... just shot this.

[video]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v295/Dcalado_/?action=view&current=Fish.mp4[/video]


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Can't tell from the video. Are there white spots all over the fish now?


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## d.co (Dec 30, 2011)

Nope, no distinct white spots on them. They have quite a shine to them, so under certain light and when they turn or twist a certain way it looks like a white spot ( to me anyways)
I've tried taking pictures, but they wont stay still long enough... especially with me near the tank.
You'll also notice on the right, the smallest one, the colour is very dull compared to others... it's always been less colourful compared to others since I brought them home. Though sometimes it does seem the colours do fade a bit...I brushed it off as my perception/over analyzing because they would be back to normal the next day. but it doesn't seem normal... maybe stress? It all seems to have started ~3 weeks ago.


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## Flygirl (Jul 23, 2011)

Hey d.co,

Welcome to the forum and great to see such a detailed account of the situation. 

The first thing that I notice in the beginning is how high your nitrates are right after a water change 20ppm, eicks. At the bottom of the post, you have another set of parameters with nitrates at 29 - this is way too high. 

The problem is your water changes - 10% is not enough, especially with that reading, instead of doing it 1 - 2 weeks, do it weekly. At least until you can maintain 5 to 10ppm for your nitrate readings. Change 25 - 30% each time. 

With what you have, I bet all your issues will go away if you just increase your water changes and bring your nitrates to acceptable levels.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Although I'm not certain about those nitrate levels in themselves, but doing what Flygirl says and maintaining good water quality never hurt. I would also try upping the temp a couple of degrees to see if ich manifests. But getting the nitrates down to 10 ppm after a water change would be ideal. The practice of a 50% wc once a week is pretty standard and easy to do unless you have a huge tank, and in a 33 gallon, you only need to about 15 gallons. Keep us posted on any changes.


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## d.co (Dec 30, 2011)

Will do. Will see what kind of results I get from increasing wc's.
I was surprised to see them so high as well, usually after a water change the nitrates would be around 10ppm. (sorry, that second post where it said 29 was a typo. Should have also read 20)
I had the tank temp raised and salted the tank for a week and no ich.


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## Rastapus (Apr 21, 2010)

I agree with the above but 20ppm NO3 is not really high. Lower is better of course but likely you have the beginnings of Ich or some sort of irritation to them. Careful using too much salt with plants.


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## d.co (Dec 30, 2011)

Yep, I was careful with how much salt I added. Even though I've read about hornwort and java moss living in brakish waters, I only did 1tablespoon pre 10gal... but failed to see any ich present itself on the fish.
I will start changing 20-30% water weekly and monitor to see what happens.

Will keep posting updates. Thanks for the help all!


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