# Starting up new saltwater tank



## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi everyone, 

I've decided to start up my saltwater tank again, it's a 6 foot long ~110 gallon. 

I used to have a FOWLR before, this was maybe a year and a half ago, and since then it was converted to only a freshwater set-up, without any fish (more so for display purposes). 

I now want to start up a saltwater tank but this time I'd like to make it a reef aquarium. 

I just wanted to ask, I'll be using two "hydor slim skim" skimmers, one on each side, because I don't have a sump, and due to the setup of my tank, I can't have a hang-on skimmer (it's an inside the wall look) so those of you who have experiences with the slim skim, any thoughts? is it the best "internal" skimmer out there? or are there any better submersible/internal skimmers? 

Also, I used to have crushed coral, but have since decided to buy new substrate for the reef aquarium, so which substrate are you guys using for your reef tanks? I've been trying to research this, but the more I read the more different opinions come up haha. Or is it simply, any medium-sized aragonite substrate should be fine? what about oolite? I'm going to be doing a shallow bed set-up. 

Finally, how important do you guys think getting an r/o filter is? I've asked around and most LFS' seem to suggest that simply tap water with prime and a phosphate remover should be good enough. 

That's all I can come up with for now, it's a bit late, I'll probably add more questions as they come haha. 

Thanks in advance, and enjoy your day. 

Cheers.


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

i use sugar sand 
for water change watter into 5 gal bucket tank gets prime bucket gets salt is mixed in and poured into the tank (boath my reef and my fish only )

for my fish only i run a 405 caniter filter heater two power heads and 3 wat leds 55 wat fixture and pc on boath ends in thinking of turning this into a reef EDIT: started turning it to reef zoas monti and shrooms in it atm

for my reed is a 29 bio its got the back conpartment with half cheto half cem stars and the 40 pounds of llive rock in it running power conpact lighting will be upgraded to led soon i hope

my frag tank has a hanng on no sand little live rock a heater and a zet light nano that seems to be working to


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## duncangweller (Jun 15, 2012)

I would definitely recommend an RO/DI system. In the long run it will save you money and give you better quality water. 

I would stay away from sugar sand. It has a habit of floating around in the water column and making your water cloudy. I'm not saying that it doesn't work, but I know a few people that have disliked it after putting it in a tank and then had to remove it. Go with Caribsea select grade aragonite sand. It's 1-2mm grains don't float around and they are still goby friendly for when they filter sand through their gills.

Hope that helps,
Dunc

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2


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## msjboy (May 2, 2011)

I recommend RO/DI too... before that with just tap water & a simple carbon filter & let the chlorine sit out for a few days( only because Vancouver has such good, low TDS ), I had a lot more algae. As for sand, go small grain... larger grain seems to hold a lot of waste over time.
Good luck with set up.


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Hmm so as long as it's less than ~2mm generally any substrate should be okay? It seems more of a personal opinion type of thing to me now. 

I s'pose I'll invest in an RO filter then, I don't know anything about them though any recommendations for a trusted brand/model?

and how about the hydor slim skim? Thoughts? or are there any better internal skimmers out there?

Thank's a lot for the replies.

Enjoy your day.


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

I think few things need to be clear here. As much as RO/DI is recommended but it is not a must have. For reef keeping, the priority should be 
1) tank size ( which u already covered)
2) filtration and lighting selection. When I say filtration, it is about skimmer, deep sand bed , plenty lr ,some kind of sump system with fuge etc. as far as for lighting, it is depend on ur live stock, you want to have the sufficient lighting for the live stock u want. 
3) then here comes the extra stuff, RO/DI , uv sterilizer , ca reactor, auto top off, or any type of supplement reactor. These are all good to have but not something that must have.

Due to your situation on the tank setup, you might want to consider a bit creative. Maybe install a black acrylic to set up a separate chamber and then you can host a in-sump type of skimmer directly in ur tank and still be able to hide it from viewing. I would think the 2 hydro slim skimmer is not strong enough for a 110g tank . If you have to go this way, I think tunze made some great quality in tank skimmer but cost a bit higher.

As for substrate , I agree with anyone before me, should go with fine sand instead crush coral, but consider to have some solution to clear the waste trap between the lr and sand. Either using egg crate to raise the lr a bit from the sand floor or install water flow system near the bottom of the lr could help


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Sand go with anything a bit larger than sugar fine, which is too light and will "blow" with the current.

Never really used in-tank skimmers so you'll have to Google reviews.

I also agree that you're better off cutting some black acrylic or tinted glass to make a small chamber sort of like what is found in a Red Sea Max or Biocube all-in-one and place a good in-sump skimmer in it. HOBs and In-tank skimmers are really not very efficient.

As for RO/DIs most reefers I know use the AquaSafe brand. They are local and can be ordered online for a very good price. AquaSafe
Best of all, they are a BCA sponsor:bigsmile:


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

The cadlight pipe less skimmer is small footprint and quiet, althought it can only do up to 50g when heavily stocked or 70g light bio load. It would be much better thank the in tank skimmer


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Well after speaking to a few people on the subject, I seem to be sold on getting some L.E.D lighting systems for the tank. Although expensive initially, I'll save money on the long run. 

The black acrylic idea sounds interesting, but I feel like it'll be too much of an eye sore given my set-up. In the past, when I ran my FOWLR tank, it was based on live rock as the main source of filtration. I had about 150 pounds of live rock in there, and through proper husbandry (frequent water changes, monitoring levels etc), it seemed to work out fine. I'm just wanting to add the protein skimmers this time because I realize with a reef aquarium, I wouldn't be able to get by with just live rock and frequent water changes, so it'll give it that extra boost. 

For the Tunze skimmers, I took a quick look and it seems like their 9006 model would be a good choice? Since I already bought one hydor slim skim, I guess I can pair the slim skim on one end and the 9006 on the other end, would that be sufficient? 

I've already decided to go with sand instead of crushed coral, I was just wondering if there's a particular type of sand which works best, or if most ~1-2mm sands would be simliar. 

Thanks!

Edit: Hmm, well now I'm starting to think that maybe the chamber idea might be better, since you guys don't sound very confident in the in-tank skimmers... but those cadlight skimmers are essentially also being used as in-tank skimmers, correct? so maybe two of those might work out?


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

LED wise I can help u on that lol. However for just running LR and DSB is not enough for reef system. Main reason is because for fowlr system, fish can tolerant high nitrate but coral can't and most nitrate coming from waste that fish left over. So keeping a skimmer in reef system


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

So I'm thinking instead of getting two smaller skimmers, I'll just get a tunze 9011 skimmer, and place it directly inside the aquarium. Any thoughts?

And haha, yes, I was looking at your section, I'll most likely contact you about the lighting once I get the skimmer figured out!


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

That would good skimmer, the tough part is to keep ur water level same


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

<< has no scimmer in his reef works fine up and runing 1 and a half year no problem


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Well, now that adds another factor in assessing whether or not to get an automated top-off system haha. But these things sound more like "luxuries" rather than necessities. 

So for now, I'm deciding to go with the tunze 9011. Does anyone else have any experience/opinions on this skimmer? 

Thanks for all your help so far, it's really appreciated.


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

Scott ur tank isn't 110g lol u better start thinking adding a skimmer when u converting ur large tank into reef


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Yeah Scott, you're confusing me now! haha j/k.


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

my 125 gal has coral and lr in it no scimmer
oops forgot to mention its only had coral in it a weel so weel se how things go


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## msjboy (May 2, 2011)

I think you can get a better cone skimmer such as swc knockoffs from ebay...it is about the same price as what you will be paying for the tunze. Are you doing a sump? Also lots of live rock is good especially if you can afford some new ones (cured) and mix it in with some older rock from peoples older tanks...but not too old as liverock has a life. For flow consider a vortech or 2...or a new jebao wp40 which is similar but cheaper. With this hobby, it can get pretty expensive very fast.


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Well the way my aquarium is set-up, is that it's a "inside the wall" look, so it has to be showcased from both the front and the back, and the two sides are enclosed within the wall so I don't have access to it. Due to this set-up, there is also no room for a sump underneath, which is why the only option I have is to use an internal skimmer which I can place directly into my tank. 

Of course I think a cone skimmer would most likely produce better results, but I don't think I can install one into my aquarium without sacrificing a lot of aesthetics of the overall look. 

In terms of internal skimmers which can go directly inside the aquarium, I think the 9011 is the best bet that I've found so far, unless someone else has other suggestions.

For flow, I have two hydor koralia powerheads leftover from my previous set-up, I'm going to set them up and take a look if it's sufficient flow before buying anything else. 

Thanks for the input so far!


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

I've decided to go with the Carib seafloor special grade substrate for my tank, I hope it works out fine. The reviews seem to be decent for it, the only thing people complain about is the fact that it's quite dusty, so rinsing it takes a long time.


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

I always go with the Fiji pink live sand


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

I've read that the whole "live sand" is just a marketing gimmick? does that actually mean anything? Especially considering that most of the "live" stuff comes from the rock anyway, doesn't it?


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I am one of those who believe its a marketing ploy. I never buy "live" sand because yes, most of the good bacteria will enter your system when you add the live rock. It will add bacteria to the sand and make it live very quickly. 

To be honest, I have used a couple of Tunze skimmers and they are not very efficient. Very little, weak skimmate compared to my other in-sump skimmers. Whatever skimmer you go with, be prepared to deal with microbubbles exiting the skimmer into your display tank.


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm prepared for that, and from what I've read online, they arn't too bad in the 9011, I guess it varies from set-up. Sadly, the internal skimmer is my only option so hopefully my experience with the tunze will be a positive one!

Also, considering it's finally getting somewhat hot in Vancouver, do any of you use chillers? or how do you deal with the water heating up on a hot summer day? 

Thanks!


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

I switched to all LED lighting so that has helped a lot compared to the 2000 watts of Metal Halides I had over all my tanks a few years ago (at my OCD max). 

I also have switched a reverse photoperiod (lights on at night when I can leave the doors and windows open to cool off the room. I also have a 12000btu air conditioner to cool ME off and the tanks when the temps. outside go above 30C.

Fans over the display can also help through increased evaporative cooling. 

Anthony


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

fan over the top works but his tank is kind of in wall type so might not work for him. But LED for sure will lower the temp by a lot.


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Yup, well we'll see. From what I saw, chillers are actually quite pricey... and I remember 2 years ago I had to freeze 2L bottles on a hot summer day to try and cool down the water a bit LOL. Although it didn't really do much... haha. 

Since my first couple fish that I buy will go into quarantine before jumping into the tank, would it be safe to add a couple hardy corals into the system before adding the fish? While the fish are quarantining then the corals could take that time to acclimate themselves. Also, are corals like fish? in the sense that only one or two can be added at one time, or can I add a few together? I'm not sure what the bio-load might be for them, if any. 

Thanks a lot!


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

omg that sounds just like me, dumping freezing 2l bottole like 13 years ago. but sad story is that I still lost about 20K worth of Live stock. Fish and coral shouldn't cost any problem with each other as long as your tank is fully cycled.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

If you want to add some hardy soft corals first, that should be okay. Zoas, palys, mushrooms, leathers, Kenyan tree.


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

<< has a few zoas fs i remember last sumer i had 400 wat mh over my 125 i had to dump ice cubes in it every day lmao


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Yea, Scott. I was looking at your items for sale, would most likely give you a ring once things are ready for some corals.

So what is the best defense you guys use against the really common problems such as cloudy eye or ick? Even though last time I quarantined everything, I still had an outbreak of ick so I'm trying to avoid that. Can't corals also carry Ick with them? so I would have to quarantine corals as well?


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

Did you QT your fish to full 6 month cycle and have your DT fish less for at least 3 to 4 months? Because if you have fish in your DT and you still have ich in the main tank your new fish will start getting infected. Fish in your tank is healthy and doesn't seem to have ich just because it has proper immune system and not stressed. So it won't get infected that badly. However it doesn't mean the parasite is not feeding on the fish scale .but when your stressednewfishin the tank. It will become the New target


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Yea I realized that and I left my tank fallow for around 3 months, but even after that I had an outbreak which was quite demoralizing haha. 

Either way, I was wondering are corals able to carry ick with them as well, and if they also require quarantining. 

I think I've decided to buy an RO/DI system as well, and I s'pose aquasafe has decent prices. Is that the best bang for buck available on the market? ... or since they're a sponser, am I even allowed to ask? haha


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

when fish in my reef get ich they get over it when my fish only system fish get ich there siting ducks if i dont treet


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Hmm, that's odd. Is it just the nature of the reef aquarium that they get over it? due to high flow, etc?


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

Its just ur luck Scott lol
As for aquam safe they are pretty good in price and fast shipping but a bit lack of instruction. Unit doesn't come with instruction, everything need to get online. I don't think anyone installing it would be able to read the monitor that easy. So you might need to end up print it out urself


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

That is not really true, coral doesn't carry ich but if it come from a ich infested tank. There can be ich cypst hanging around on it. If you check out the life cycle of the ich. It always fall on the substrate. It could possible carry on coral branches etc.but coral is not a host of ich


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Well I just ordered the aquasafe aquarium ii system, the majority of people seem to be content with their model online so hopefully everything works out =). 

I'll most likely pick up the substrate and skimmer tomorrow, so things are finally in motion! haha.

Now on to lighting I s'pose. I'll do a bit of research first and see if I have any questions, although I'm not looking forward to finding out how much I'll have to spend on lighting haha.


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

sure thing, or you are welcome to talk about it here where everyone can chip in certain things.


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

seems like me i dont put mony into small fish for my reef and thats probly why they live

try to get some one to hang the light you buy it for you if your not good with finding studs (im not good at it i hung my old leds and hey come crshing down into the tank zaping most of the fish


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/marine-equipment-classifieds-87/fs-2x24-aq-pro-leds-37999/

So I'm looking into maybe purchasing these lights. Do you think two of these will be enough for my 70 inch long tank?

Also, what type of corals would I be able to keep with these lights. I looked at your PAR reading thread, but I was a bit confused.

"aQ.PRO 24" 108W ( Moon light off, actual total is 90W)
3" 930
6" 754
12" 470
24" 230
32" 178
36" 152

This is all around fixture, pretty much can support clam on the sand bed and even some SPS. Should be very good for everything."

These are the numbers you posted. So does that mean that when the light is 3.5 inches from the water, at 3 inch deep the PAR reading is 930, and at 6 inches deep it's 754, and so on.

If so, then why did you only say "some" sps, shouldn't I be able to keep all sps depending on how far they are from the light? or did you mean "some sps" on the sand bed as well?

Thanks!


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

you will need 3 of them to support that tank. The reason why I said some is because most SPS need PAR over 200, but some SPS such as some montipora or deep sea acropora only need 100 to 150. the reading pretty much telling you the light is good for mix reef where you can have SPS at about 24" deep or above for sure and 24" and lower you can have soft coral or LPS. Hope that make sense.

The light was 3 and half inches above water level, so the reading are 3" below water. So @ 6.5 inches from fixture it is 930, @9.5 inches away from the light it is 754 etc. I don't think you can go any closer to the water level in this case simply because the light and your water surface would always has some gap there.


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Yup, makes sense. Well my tank is only 24'' tall anyway, so generally speaking I should be okay with some sps in the tank as well. But 3 of those fixtures? hmm... I was hoping to make do with just those two, budget is getting kind of tight already haha and I still have to buy the live rock!


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Edit: never mind, I read your thread introducing these lights and it explains quite a bit already about the difference between bridgelux and cree.


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

Keeping 2 on such long tank is ok but that means you will need to hang them really high and wil give up lots PAR.

I do have 1 more aq pro myself and I can try to work out something for you if you gonna take Ian's 2x aq pro there


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

I just spoke to Ian on the phone, and I'll be heading down to his place tomorrow to pick up the lights, so if you're able to work out a deal for me with the third unit that'd be great! Bear in mind, my budget has already exceeded what I originally thought... hahah. 

I also ended up going with the fiji pink substrate. I was going to get the select grade, but I realized the Fiji pink is basically the same thing except I won't need to rinse 120 pounds of sand if I opt with the Fiji pink. 

Also, I went down to J&L to pick up the Tunze 9011 skimmer, and as I was about to purchase it, I believe his name is John, he was able to work out a deal with a Tunze 9015 model that they had just set-up on their frag tank for only a week. So it was basically a free upgrade from the 9011 to the 9015 skimmer, talk about perfect timing! haha. So it was much appreciated what John was able to do for me and I'm quite happy with that whole transaction.


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

good to see your list is coming along, I sent you a PM


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

List is coming a long thanks to all the help everyone gave me in this thread. But the closer it comes to an end, the closer I get to the big purchases... did the first one today, for the skimmer, still have the two biggest purchases left, in the lights and the live rock!

Maybe the tooth fairy can drop off an aq pro 24'' fixture under my pillow instead of $5 this time...


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

Well I was able to pick up Ian's lights, thanks a lot to him for that. Very helpful and friendly. 

Ian mentioned I should ask people's opinions on the type of salt that they use. I just bought a typical instant ocean bucket, but he mentioned I should be using reef crystals when I get corals? What kind of salt do you guys use?


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## aQ.LED (Nov 13, 2012)

Instant ocean is fine. I am using salinity


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

i use secem reef salt


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

seachem would be salinity? The same one Frank uses... yea I think I'll switch over to that once I'm done cycling and ready for some corals. That is, if I have any money left hahaha

Thanks!

Can't wait for the RO/DI unit to come so I can start building the tank finally. 

So for a reef aquarium, how often do you guys manually top-off? for those who don't have auto-top off ... Is it worth it to get one set-up? I'm thinking a couple liters per day shouldn't be too bad to manually top-off...


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

i got seled lids on mosta my tanks 2 hav eels in them so alomost never my rim less 1-2 times a day


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## F.H (Feb 14, 2011)

So just set-up my RO/DI unit yesterday, and it works a lot slower than I thought... I'm getting about 5 gallons of water every 2 hours. I did a quick search online and some people are getting the same results so I'm assuming that's normal (Although it's not really 100 gpd though, lol). 

I was wondering about the "eggcrates" I see people mentioning that a lot about lining the bottom of your tank with that so the live rock doesn't roll around. What are your thoughts on doing this?


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