# Aquarium Quality



## Sidius

I'm currently starting the research, in preparation for upgrading my 90 to a 180-220 gallon tank. After seeing someones post about their 2nd leaking 210 gallon tank (I believe it was All-Glass/Aqueon) this year, it made me wonder about the overall quality of the tanks out there these days.

Does anyone have an opinion about the quality of the glass, seals, workmanship, etc.? I'd love a starfire glass tank but what's the difference in price and how available are they?

Any and all opinions about this topic is welcome


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## Sidius

Here's what I've read so far...

Aqueon/All-Glass:
Some like them and some don't but they're decent tanks at an affordable price. There seems to be some people that have complained about them leaking after only a few months and some people have been using them for years with no issues. Some have also reported that they use better quality glass than Perfecto (Marineland) but thinner plastic trim. My 90 gallon is Aqueon and I have had no problems with it over the last year.

Perfecto (Marineland):
Like the Aqueon tanks, some like them and some don't. People have said they use thinner glass that chips easier and there's mixed opinions on the quality of the seal (same as Aqueon). Some love the black silicone and some don't. I have no personal experience with them, however.

Oceanic:
I believe they're also owned by Aqueon and the overall consensus is the quality has gone down hill over the years. In general, they're considered a more high end tank I think? I'm pretty sure they're price tag is quite a bit higher than the others. I've seen some people comment that the centre brace is made of glass and better quality trim/glass. Are they worth the extra $$$? There seems to be mixed opinions on this.


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## tony1928

I'm not sure if Oceanic is making tanks anymore other than their biocubes. Hagen used to be quite good and now only market the Fluval tank line. Marineland does make some of their tanks in Starphire and they appear quite good. Nothing much to say about Aqueon/perfecto. It's a tank. Maybe I'm just too picky in my old age.


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## mdwflyer

Same boat, planning stages, the stand appears to be as big a factor as anything in "larger" tanks leaking. Having seen some questionable setups, I now understand manufacturers offering the big warranty as long as u use their stand...


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## kacairns

I would say having 1 leaking tank, just bad luck, to have multiple leaking tanks I would look closely at the setup to figure out what caused it. I've had my Aqueon 180g tank for about 6 months now, it is build solid and only complaint I have is how much it weighed empty!


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## Sidius

mdwflyer said:


> Same boat, planning stages, the stand appears to be as big a factor as anything in "larger" tanks leaking. Having seen some questionable setups, I now understand manufacturers offering the big warranty as long as u use their stand...


This is a very good point! If anyone can add anything about stands and the role it plays in a larger tank leaking, I would really appreciate the insight. The Aqueon pine stand comes in the dimensions needed for a 180/210 gallon tank (72x24). I'm using the same pine stand (48x18) for my 90 gallon and it works fine but it does seem like a cheaply made piece of furniture. Would that stand be sufficient in preventing a larger tank from leaking or would you need more weight distribution and a better quality stand, like say the Monterey series or something custom?

I actually spoke with someone from Titan aquatics today (I was curious what it would cost for a 220 gallon tank delivered). They only honor their lifetime warranty if you use their stand or they approve the stand you have (or the plans for the stand you plan to use, if you are going custom). He said the main thing is weight distribution for larger tanks. You need support beams running across the width every 24 inches.


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## tony1928

I think once you understand how glass versus acrylic tanks are constructed then it makes complete sense what will work and won't work. No need to be an engineer or rocket scientist. I built my own stand for my 400g. I'm definitely not an engineer and for sure no carpenter. I just knew what I needed to do to support several tons of water. As for warranties I think they only ever cover the tank itself. Not the contents or the water damage.


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## mdwflyer

Just curious,how much was the Titan delivered? (was it to bellingham/pt roberts?) you can pm if you want.

I'm sure sending one of Targets plan designs to the manufacturer would put them at ease. Build it stronger than a house, no flex, no sag, build it square and level, and you will never have a problem :bigsmile: with the stand that is...

I want 6' long 2.5' wide 2' deep, but considering going simple 6'x2'x2'


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## tony1928

mdwflyer said:


> Just curious,how much was the Titan delivered? (was it to bellingham/pt roberts?) you can pm if you want.
> 
> I'm sure sending one of Targets plan designs to the manufacturer would put them at ease. Build it stronger than a house, no flex, no sag, build it square and level, and you will never have a problem :bigsmile: with the stand that is...
> 
> I want 6' long 2.5' wide 2' deep, but considering going simple 6'x2'x2'


I think if you are going Titan you may as well get the exact size that you want. All their tanks are built to order anyway.


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## charles

6 x 2 x 2 , cost of getting that 30" wide is way too hight for the added wide. More space, more plecos


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## 2wheelsx2

charles said:


> 6 x 2 x 2 , cost of getting that 30" wide is way too hight for the added wide. More space, more plecos


Disagree. Having gone to a 30" square tank, I'd go for width over length every time. The worst dimension in my 125 gallon is the 18" width. Looking back I could have done much more with a 4x2x2 120 gallon. The only bad part about a 30" wide tank is reaching into the back, but if you keep it to 24" high it shouldn't be too bad. Tony's 400 on the other hand....reach for the scuba gear.

To steer back to the original topic a bit though, I think for anything over 200 gallons I'd consider acrylic now. Lighter, stronger, truer colours and better heat insulation. The only thing I fear about acrylic vs. glass is that if glass fails you usually get a leak, but if acrylic fails it probably just totally blows apart (however, with a properly made acrylic tank the likelihood is almost nil). The way I look at it, when you get into rarer fish, the cost of the tank is a one time purchase and lasts a long time and is possibly the cheapest part of the setup. It certainly is for every one of my tanks, especially the ones I got used.


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## Sidius

Hopefully it doesn't break any rules by posting the price but they said it would be roughly $4000 delivered to Portland, OR (I have family there). It probably wouldn't be too much more to Blaine/Bellingham but he did say crossing the border can add a lot to the price, though. That was for a 72" (long) x 24" (Deep) x 30" (tall) tank + stand. It was drilled/plumbed for overflows, etc. Basically your standard dimension 220 gallon tank with metal frame stand.

It's definitely more than I want to spend so I'll probably end up going with glass.


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## Sidius

2wheelsx2 said:


> Disagree. Having gone to a 30" square tank, I'd go for width over length every time. The worst dimension in my 125 gallon is the 18" width. Looking back I could have done much more with a 4x2x2 120 gallon. The only bad part about a 30" wide tank is reaching into the back, but if you keep it to 24" high it shouldn't be too bad. Tony's 400 on the other hand....reach for the scuba gear.
> 
> To steer back to the original topic a bit though, I think for anything over 200 gallons I'd consider acrylic now. Lighter, stronger, truer colours and better heat insulation. The only thing I fear about acrylic vs. glass is that if glass fails you usually get a leak, but if acrylic fails it probably just totally blows apart (however, with a properly made acrylic tank the likelihood is almost nil). The way I look at it, when you get into rarer fish, the cost of the tank is a one time purchase and lasts a long time and is possibly the cheapest part of the setup. It certainly is for every one of my tanks, especially the ones I got used.


Length vs Width can definitely depend on the type of fish you're keeping though. For keeping African Cichlids (particularly larger Africans) length is more important than width, although width plays a key role too.

I'd love to go acrylic but that's just too much for me at this point. I love my fish and want the best but I just can't justify an expense like that right now. I'll look into a custom acrylic tank in a few years when I can and in the meantime I'll go with a more budget friendly 6ft glass tank.


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## 2wheelsx2

I think for a 210 you're ok with glass as it's still manageable. I don't really like the standard 210 because most of the time (unless one is going with deep body fish like Discus or deep water fish like Frontosa) the height is a waste and adds to the weight of the glass and thus the cost. A nice 180 in the same footprint would be quite a bit cheaper. And yes, with Africans the length is importance but for me it's not the size of the fish as much as the scaping. I just found the 30" width to give such a sense of expansiveness that the scape looks a lot more realistic. Even with Africans you can create a much more 3D rockwork layout.


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## tony1928

2wheelsx2 said:


> Tony's 400 on the other hand....reach for the scuba gear.


Now now, mine is only around 26" deep. No scuba gear needed, maybe some tank tops would be recommended unless you like wet clothing. 

Acrylic has a lot of things going for it, mainly those things already mentioned. Cons being upfront cost and susceptibility to scratches. That may be a big concern to someone doing a reef tank or housing large panaques that like to rasp on surfaces. Like Gary mentioned though, the cost of the tank always pales in comparison to the livestock in the long run.

I think given what you've said, a nice 180 glass tank would work fine. It will make a great African tank with the 6 foot length. When I had African haps and peacocks, they used the entire length of the tank. Height wasn't a big factor but the depth was actually quite good. It gave them more running room to escape aggression. The added depth, mine was 36" deep, allowed me to place some rocks in the middle of the tank, thereby providing further territory for the fish.


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## mdwflyer

charles said:


> 6 x 2 x 2 , cost of getting that 30" wide is way too hight for the added wide. More space, more plecos


More plecos, more width. I like the safety, and the weight of Acrylic. Big panaque on the inside, and 2 little kids on the outside, glass might be a better idea...

Sidius can go tall, I think I'm still going to go wide.


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## bonsai dave

Have you tried Sea star in Victoria. I have seen a few of their tanks around and they look well made.


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## Sidius

Ya you guys make a good point.. The 210 is extra height that isn't really needed and a 180 would probably be enough. It gives me the important 72 x 24 footprint, with less weight and cost.



bonsai dave said:


> Have you tried Sea star in Victoria. I have seen a few of their tanks around and they look well made.


I haven't heard of them but I'll look into it, thanks!


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## deepRED

Sea star is now h2o aquarium. I've had custom work done by them, but it's not cheap. Better off going with something off the shelf if all you're looking for is a 6x2. You pay a HUGE premium for custom work. 
I have a 6 foot plexi kicking around in great shape. Dims are 72"x18"x30. Was keeping it for a project but not sure if I'll get around to it. PM me if you're interested.


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## mdwflyer

Can any of you name any tank builders in Washington, or Oregon state? Shipping is a pretty significant cost, I could get into a day trip vs $500+ for shipping :bigsmile:


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## tony1928

I ordered my cube tank through these guys and shipped to Point Roberts. The shipping was reasonable though my cube isn't ginormous, just 30" x 30". It was a Tenecor.

http://www.familybizfishtanks.com.

The owner Dustin was great to deal with.


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## Sidius

mdwflyer said:


> Can any of you name any tank builders in Washington, or Oregon state? Shipping is a pretty significant cost, I could get into a day trip vs $500+ for shipping :bigsmile:


You could try contacting The Wet Spot in Portland. I've bought fish from their store a couple times, great store and good people. The selection for us cichlid lovers (not just African) is the largest I've ever seen. When I was in the store, they went as far as saying they have the largest cichlid selection in the western US and possibly nationwide.

Anyway, back on topic, they would be a good place to start when it comes to tracking down an acrylic manufacturer in that area. Check out TruVu as well. They're located in California and their website prices were significantly cheaper than Titan (almost half the price). I think it was around $1775 delivered to Oregon, for a 72x24x30 tank. Shipping was only $129.99 of that.


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## mdwflyer

Tony, that is a great website and company. Thanks!

That's a cool store Sidius, good find. Are you getting closer to picking what to use in your build?

Glasscages.com - Home

Fish Tanks For Sale, Custom Aquariums, Large Fish Tank Specials


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## tony1928

No worries. I don't even know how I found this guy. Just some in depth googling. He really needs to get some better search engine optimization. Anyways I would highly recommend him. He definitely takes care of his customers. He's obviously a middle man here but the prices he gave me were very reasonable.


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## Virual

As long as your stand is level and you put styrofoam under the bottom panel, your stand shouldn't be an issue.
My 450 Gallon has been set-up for 3 years now, and still just as good as the day it was built.
I used 1" foam but I think 1/2" is fine, I like to overkill things.


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## Sidius

Virual said:


> As long as your stand is level and you put styrofoam under the bottom panel, your stand shouldn't be an issue.
> My 450 Gallon has been set-up for 3 years now, and still just as good as the day it was built.
> I used 1" foam but I think 1/2" is fine, I like to overkill things.


So do you mean, putting styrofoam underneath the stand, between the stand and the floor or do you mean between the tank and the stand?

I've been wondering what I could do to help out in this regard.


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## Sidius

mdwflyer said:


> Tony, that is a great website and company. Thanks!
> 
> That's a cool store Sidius, good find. Are you getting closer to picking what to use in your build?
> 
> Glasscages.com - Home
> 
> Fish Tanks For Sale, Custom Aquariums, Large Fish Tank Specials


I read some forum posts on a reef aquarium site that said glasscages.com used non tempered glass on the bottom of their tanks and it cracked causing over 200 gallons of water to drain out on to his floor. When he noticed it cracked and didn't "shatter" like tempered glass is supposed to use, he called them and they told him they do not use it.

Ya I'm getting close to deciding, I should know this week what I'm going to get. Although, I won't be able to finalize everything until my bonus comes in at the end of Feb.


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## Virual

Sidius said:


> So do you mean, putting styrofoam underneath the stand, between the stand and the floor or do you mean between the tank and the stand?
> 
> I've been wondering what I could do to help out in this regard.


If your tank is a flat bottom tank, then you want to put foam between the bottom panel of glass and the stand.


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## Sidius

Virual said:


> If your tank is a flat bottom tank, then you want to put foam between the bottom panel of glass and the stand.


Perfect, thanks for the explanation! Most glass aquariums have a bit of a lip due to the black plastic trim, etc. So you would need it thick enough to fill that gap, I guess. I've never owned anything larger than a 4ft tank (my current 90g) and the aqueon black pine stands are open top in that size so can't see styrofoam staying in place. Is that the case with the larger 72" x 24" stands or does it have a layer of plywood where the tank sits to provide a flat surface?


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## 2wheelsx2

You do not want rimmed aquaria supported by the bottom glass so you would not use foam on those directly under the tank. You want those tanks supported by the rim. My 125's factory stand doesn't even have a bottom. The stand is open at the top so that I can see the bottom of the aquarium from the inside of the stand.


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## Virual

Sidius said:


> Perfect, thanks for the explanation! Most glass aquariums have a bit of a lip due to the black plastic trim, etc. So you would need it thick enough to fill that gap, I guess. I've never owned anything larger than a 4ft tank (my current 90g) and the aqueon black pine stands are open top in that size so can't see styrofoam staying in place. Is that the case with the larger 72" x 24" stands or does it have a layer of plywood where the tank sits to provide a flat surface?


My 180 stand has a plywood bottom, so I put a sheet sytro under that one.
My 210 is an open bottom, just has a wood trim along the edge that holds it up. so you don't need styro cause its not possible for anything to ever make contact with bottom of the tank.
Basiclly you only need the styro if you think that something may touch your bottom panel.
So it will depend on what kinda stand you buy, that will determine if you need the styro or not.


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## Sidius

2wheelsx2 said:


> You do not want rimmed aquaria supported by the bottom glass so you would not use foam on those directly under the tank. You want those tanks supported by the rim. My 125's factory stand doesn't even have a bottom. The stand is open at the top so that I can see the bottom of the aquarium from the inside of the stand.


Ya I just discovered this explanation in a thread on reefcentral that makes sense to me...

Generally acrylic has no foam. Glass tanks with a flat bottom always use foam. Glass tanks with a rim USUALLY have no foam. Some tanks with rims require foam.

The purpose of the foam is to reduce pressure points. The reason flat bottom tanks use foam is because the full bottom pane makes contact and any imperfection could stress the glass.

The reason you don't use foam on tanks with a rim is because usually the bottom pane is floating. The sides of the tank support the load. If you put foam under a tank that is supported with the sides it will crush the foam (and not always evenly) causing stress at the joints. The seams separate and you have a bad day.


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## tony1928

Sidius said:


> Ya I just discovered this explanation in a thread on reefcentral that makes sense to me...
> 
> Generally acrylic has no foam. Glass tanks with a flat bottom always use foam. Glass tanks with a rim USUALLY have no foam. Some tanks with rims require foam.
> 
> The purpose of the foam is to reduce pressure points. The reason flat bottom tanks use foam is because the full bottom pane makes contact and any imperfection could stress the glass.
> 
> The reason you don't use foam on tanks with a rim is because usually the bottom pane is floating. The sides of the tank support the load. If you put foam under a tank that is supported with the sides it will crush the foam (and not always evenly) causing stress at the joints. The seams separate and you have a bad day.


For any flat bottomed tank (glass or acrylic) I would always choose to use foam. It helps smooth out any imperfections within your tank stand. I use it on my acrylic tanks. I think acrylic is nice as it has a little bit of give but why risk it over a few bucks worth of foam.


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## 2wheelsx2

Yep, you don't need much of a "bump" or high spot in the stand to create a point load on the pane of acrylic or glass. Those sheets are strong, but designed for a distributed load, not a point load.


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## Sidius

Essentially, any Aqueon standard size glass tank (180/210g in my case) should have a lip and you should not use any foam under it?


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## kacairns

Sidius said:


> Essentially, any Aqueon standard size glass tank (180/210g in my case) should have a lip and you should not use any foam under it?


If its got black plastic trim and the trim isn't just a l shape, the sides/front/back are the lowest point not the bottom and are what bears the weight, I will rip off the trim on the 29g tank tonight and post a picture of what it looks like under it, it is done the same on both 29g, 26g bowfront, 56g and 180g tank I have here.


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## bonsai dave

tony1928 said:


> For any flat bottomed tank (glass or acrylic) I would always choose to use foam. It helps smooth out any imperfections within your tank stand. I use it on my acrylic tanks. I think acrylic is nice as it has a little bit of give but why risk it over a few bucks worth of foam.


What type of foam are you using under your tank ? I use the pink stuff under my 170


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## tony1928

bonsai dave said:


> What type of foam are you using under your tank ? I use the pink stuff under my 170


Yup just the pink stuff under the 400.


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## mdwflyer

Sidius said:


> I read some forum posts on a reef aquarium site that said glasscages.com used non tempered glass on the bottom of their tanks and it cracked causing over 200 gallons of water to drain out on to his floor. When he noticed it cracked and didn't "shatter" like tempered glass is supposed to use, he called them and they told him they do not use it.
> 
> Ya I'm getting close to deciding, I should know this week what I'm going to get. Although, I won't be able to finalize everything until my bonus comes in at the end of Feb.


Very good point, on that note, can a drilled tank have a tempered bottom?


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## 2wheelsx2

mdwflyer said:


> Very good point, on that note, can a drilled tank have a tempered bottom?


You cannot drill tempered glass as the surface of the glass is under tension. That's why it shatters to bits when it get broken. It makes it stronger, but also makes most failures catastrophic.


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## kacairns

mdwflyer said:


> Very good point, on that note, can a drilled tank have a tempered bottom?


It has to be drilled prior to being tempered


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## kacairns

Just took the trim off the tank and a picture or two

The lip on the plastic trim is what the bottom sits on, it is set exactly at the height that the sides extend down into the plastic trim. The 2nd picture is of the tank without the trim on it and you can see the sides extend past the bottom so the bottom is "inset". If you were to place foam under the tank and it managed to crush it down to the point the foam would hit the bottom glass you could risk breaking the seal on the bottom pane of glass


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## Sidius

kacairns said:


> Just took the trim off the tank and a picture or two
> 
> The lip on the plastic trim is what the bottom sits on, it is set exactly at the height that the sides extend down into the plastic trim. The 2nd picture is of the tank without the trim on it and you can see the sides extend past the bottom so the bottom is "inset". If you were to place foam under the tank and it managed to crush it down to the point the foam would hit the bottom glass you could risk breaking the seal on the bottom pane of glass
> 
> View attachment 14271
> 
> View attachment 14272


Thanks for the pics! I've learned a lot about aquariums and the way they're manufactured in the last few days. Having never owned a tank over 75-90 gallons I wanted to be sure and I'm glad I did the research. A tank that size leaking that much water out on to my floor is my worst nightmare (I'm sure it's anyone's worst nightmare, with a tank of any size).

I just put a deposit down on an Aqueon 180 gallon tank and Aqueon 72x24 stand @ Rogers Aquatics. For those in the market, Rogers has some fantastic prices right now on 180/210g tanks. I am used to King Ed having the best prices around but Rogers beat them by a fair amount.


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## 2wheelsx2

Congratulations. 180 is a great footprint without the extra height of the 210. Ideal footprint You're going to love it. It'll seem to be much more than 2x the 90. But you better get some way of pumping the water out for a water change instead of a Python or you'll be at it all day.


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## Sidius

2wheelsx2 said:


> Congratulations. 180 is a great footprint without the extra height of the 210. Ideal footprint You're going to love it. It'll seem to be much more than 2x the 90. But you better get some way of pumping the water out for a water change instead of a Python or you'll be at it all day.


Hahaha Ya I've got a python now and with my lower flow tap it already takes over an hour to drain and fill the 90 gallon. What do people usually use for water changes on larger tanks? I'm picking up an FX5 which has a valve for draining water, will that work better than a python for draining it at least?


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## Virual

Sidius said:


> Hahaha Ya I've got a python now and with my lower flow tap it already takes over an hour to drain and fill the 90 gallon. What do people usually use for water changes on larger tanks? I'm picking up an FX5 which has a valve for draining water, will that work better than a python for draining it at least?


I use a 650 gph pond pump to drain the water out of my 180 and 210


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## 2wheelsx2

I use a QuietOne 3000 hooked up to a PVC Super Safety Siphon (Jehmco name) to set the water level during drainage. Doesn't gravel vac though, so you'll still have to use the Python for that. Or get an Eheim Sludge extractor.


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## Sidius

Virual said:


> I use a 650 gph pond pump to drain the water out of my 180 and 210


Can that pond pump be used with pool filter sand substrate? It might be worth looking into.



2wheelsx2 said:


> I use a QuietOne 3000 hooked up to a PVC Super Safety Siphon (Jehmco name) to set the water level during drainage. Doesn't gravel vac though, so you'll still have to use the Python for that. Or get an Eheim Sludge extractor.


I've heard the Eheim sludge extractor has problems dealing with fine sand like PFS?

Even with my python I still use an old fashioned gravel vac (draining into a bucket) to clean the substrate because the python doesn't get the suction I need to properly clean it (see low flow tap, from above lol). I have the python running only to drain the tank and refill it, so I don't have to drain 10+ buckets of water and fill it the same way. I can usually clean the substrate with my old trusty gravel vac in 1-2 buckets and they just go out the back door, a few steps away.

What do you guys use to fill it?


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## 2wheelsx2

Sidius said:


> Can that pond pump be used with pool filter sand substrate? It might be worth looking into.
> 
> I've heard the Eheim sludge extractor has problems dealing with fine sand like PFS?
> 
> Even with my python I still use an old fashioned gravel vac (draining into a bucket) to clean the substrate because the python doesn't get the suction I need to properly clean it (see low flow tap, from above lol). I have the python running only to drain the tank and refill it, so I don't have to drain 10+ buckets of water and fill it the same way. I can usually clean the substrate with my old trusty gravel vac in 1-2 buckets and they just go out the back door, a few steps away.


The pumps are not used anywhere near the substrate. 2 of my 5 tanks use sand, even finer than PFS and I've only had a problem once and it was because the pump fell into the sand. I drain and fill about 60 gallons out of my cube in 10 minutes and about 75 gallons in my 125 in about 15 minutes with a garden hose and the QO3000 (about 950 GPH I believe).

As for the extractor I have not had a problem with it and neither has Tony1928 who also uses sand. But if you're already using a bucket and gravel vac then you might as well continue. Since my tanks are all planted, and have a ton of flow because of the plecos, I don't worry about gravel vacuuming all that much.


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## Fish rookie

Can you attach a water pump to where you normally attach your python to the tap, and vaccum and siphon as usual but with more power?


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## Sidius

2wheelsx2 said:


> The pumps are not used anywhere near the substrate. 2 of my 5 tanks use sand, even finer than PFS and I've only had a problem once and it was because the pump fell into the sand. I drain and fill about 60 gallons out of my cube in 10 minutes and about 75 gallons in my 125 in about 15 minutes with a garden hose and the QO3000 (about 950 GPH I believe).
> 
> As for the extractor I have not had a problem with it and neither has Tony1928 who also uses sand. But if you're already using a bucket and gravel vac then you might as well continue. Since my tanks are all planted, and have a ton of flow because of the plecos, I don't worry about gravel vacuuming all that much.


I'll have to look into one of those pond pumps, I think.. That sounds awesome.



Fish rookie said:


> Can you attach a water pump to where you normally attach your python to the tap, and vaccum and siphon as usual but with more power?


I'm not sure what you mean? Attach a water pump to my tap?


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## 2wheelsx2

Sorry I miswrote. I drain those tanks in those times. For filling I'm at the mercy of the tap. So it's usually 2x as long to do the filling. But that's still 30 minutes for a 75% water change.


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## Sidius

Where do the pumps sit to drain the water?


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## 2wheelsx2

You suspend it at the level you want to pump at, either by positioning the hose, or having a safety siphon made of PVC like I do. It looks like this. This is a big one I made for Tony to clear the openings in his 400 gallon acrylic tank. Garden hose screws into the end on the left. Pump slides onto the end on the right and that piece pivots, allowing you to adjust the water draw level. It's very easy and cheap to make. Less than $10. The most expensive piece is the garden hose adapter.


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## Sidius

2wheelsx2 said:


> You suspend it at the level you want to pump at, either by positioning the hose, or having a safety siphon made of PVC like I do. It looks like this. This is a big one I made for Tony to clear the openings in his 400 gallon acrylic tank. Garden hose screws into the end on the left. Pump slides onto the end on the right and that piece pivots, allowing you to adjust the water draw level. It's very easy and cheap to make. Less than $10. The most expensive piece is the garden hose adapter.


Thanks! I may have to PM you for the details when I'm ready, I'd love some pics of it all hooked up or even pics of it in action, if you ever think of it... all in all, this new tank won't be up and running until mid march. I'll be picking up the tank/stand/lids around the end of Feb and then I will be ordering a FX5 from somewhere in the US and shipping it to my moms place in Oregon (cheaper and no tax) and she's bringing it up to me mid march. I'll have to keep the 4ft light fixture for now, until I can afford the one I want. I also wanna pick up a couple of those Tunze powerheads for circulation.


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## 2wheelsx2

Sidius said:


> Thanks! I may have to PM you for the details when I'm ready, I'd love some pics of it all hooked up or even pics of it in action, if you ever think of it... all in all, this new tank won't be up and running until mid march. I'll be picking up the tank/stand/lids around the end of Feb and then I will be ordering a FX5 from somewhere in the US and shipping it to my moms place in Oregon (cheaper and no tax) and she's bringing it up to me mid march. I'll have to keep the 4ft light fixture for now, until I can afford the one I want.


I'll take a pic of it the next time I do a water change. I have 2 different ones. One for the discus tank where I never change the draw level and another for the other tank so I can change the level depending on the tank size (46 bow and 125). You can also do the water change using the water pump from the FX5. It works well, but I found connecting/disconnecting to be a pain on that thing, but it sure pumps out the water fast. 

If you're going to go LED consider doing suspended or a canopy and then you can just use modules. Should probably start a journal thread instead of the 2 of us going all over the place in this thread of yours, for people who are trying to find out about aquarium quality.


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## bonsai dave

if your going with a big filter and getting from the States you should check out the eheim 2262 it's a great filter. 
EHEIM Classic Canister 2262 - YouTube

Eheim Classic 2262 500G External Canister Filter w/ Double Taps $389.16: Eheim Classic - Canister Filters - Fish Supplies ValuePetSupplies.com

http://www.amazon.com/Eheim-Classic-Aquarium-Filter-2262/dp/B00176GJZG


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## 2wheelsx2

Dave's right, on the one hand. But on the other hand, knowing what I know now, I'd considering drilling and sumping the 180. I bet Rogers can even get that sorted out for you. Will make your life easier and create even more water volume for you in the same footprint. So the benefits of a 240 with the footprint of a 180.


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## Sidius

I thought about that but water volume/quality is typically not an issue for me.. I do minimum 60-70% water changes every week, plus I already have an Eheim 2075, AC 110 and an Emperor 400. I've stocked them all with Matrix rock, chemi-pure elite, eheim substrat, etc. I'm good with just adding a FX5 to bring me back up to around 10x turnover per hour. Whatever I'm doing now, really works. My fish are all very healthy, grow at very good rate (my friend with a cichlid tank thinks I use growth hormones lol), vibrant and full of colour. The reason I'm going with the FX5 is that I get high turnover/flow rate (over 900 gph) and Amazon.com has them for $260 brand new. I may end up swapping the 2075 for a bigger canister down the road and I had my eye on the 2080 but for now what I have plus the FX5 should do. I hear nothing but good things about them.


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## Sidius

Thanks to Justin (jbyoung00008) I've recently dived into the planted african cichlid world and I'm loving the look. Hopefully the plants help to maintain good water quality as well and I'm most likely going to invest in a UV for the new tank. If needed, I also have a PhosBan reactor that I can set up as well.


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## mdwflyer

Sidius said:


> I just put a deposit down on an Aqueon 180 gallon tank and Aqueon 72x24 stand @ Rogers Aquatics. For those in the market, Rogers has some fantastic prices right now on 180/210g tanks. I am used to King Ed having the best prices around but Rogers beat them by a fair amount.


Great choice! Rogers have been stocking up on tanks, lots of nice stuff there.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Dave's right, on the one hand. But on the other hand, knowing what I know now, I'd considering drilling and sumping the 180. I bet Rogers can even get that sorted out for you. Will make your life easier and create even more water volume for you in the same footprint. So the benefits of a 240 with the footprint of a 180.


+10000000 Put a properly designed (not what I currently have on my 135) sump for sure.



Sidius said:


> I thought about that but water volume/quality is typically not an issue for me.. I do minimum 60-70% water changes every week, plus I already have an Eheim 2075, AC 110 and an Emperor 400. I've stocked them all with Matrix rock, chemi-pure elite, eheim substrat, etc. I'm good with just adding a FX5 to bring me back up to around 10x turnover per hour. Whatever I'm doing now, really works. My fish are all very healthy, grow at very good rate (my friend with a cichlid tank thinks I use growth hormones lol), vibrant and full of colour. The reason I'm going with the FX5 is that I get high turnover/flow rate (over 900 gph) and Amazon.com has them for $260 brand new. I may end up swapping the 2075 for a bigger canister down the road and I had my eye on the 2080 but for now what I have plus the FX5 should do. I hear nothing but good things about them.


You can sell all that stuff, and have money left over from building a good sump.


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## Sidius

Ya I thought about selling it all but I don't want to tempt fate. Whatever I'm doing now is a very successful setup, my fish are very healthy and very happy. Also, not knowing anything about sumps, hearing about them over flowing during a power outtage scares the crap out of me. I live in a rental house and that could cause damage that I don't want to have to deal with. I just prefer to stay with my filters.


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## kacairns

Sidius said:


> Ya I thought about selling it all but I don't want to tempt fate. Whatever I'm doing now is a very successful setup, my fish are very healthy and very happy. Also, not knowing anything about sumps, hearing about them over flowing during a power outtage scares the crap out of me. I live in a rental house and that could cause damage that I don't want to have to deal with. I just prefer to stay with my filters.


Your sump won't overflow as long as your overflows are designed properly. The ones that come on the Aqueon only allow say the top inch of water into the overflow on the tank which could drain into the sump. So on a 180g tank that would be I think 10g, so sump level just needs to be designed to hold the extra 10g. My marineland sump can hold a extra 25g I think after its filled to the top of the running capacity


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## Sidius

kacairns said:


> Your sump won't overflow as long as your overflows are designed properly. The ones that come on the Aqueon only allow say the top inch of water into the overflow on the tank which could drain into the sump. So on a 180g tank that would be I think 10g, so sump level just needs to be designed to hold the extra 10g. My marineland sump can hold a extra 25g I think after its filled to the top of the running capacity


That's good information, thank you! I love to research this stuff so I'll look into it, unfortunately I can't afford a tank that's drilled with over flows. If I was going to do it, I'd have to look into drilling the new tank I'm buying. I'll most likely prefer to stay with my current setup (and add an FX5) but you never know, I guess.


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## 2wheelsx2

Here are some pics from today's water change in the 100 gallon square tank for my discus. You'll note that the PVC tube is not hanging on the side. That's my poorman's attempt to do a bit of surface skimming as I drain it down. I will likely just put the elbow on that water changer to be able to change the level just like the other picture I showed. The suction cups hold the contraption in place but are not strictly necessary if you use a straight U. If you do the adjustable arm they help to keep the whole thing from pivoting down when the water level gets low.


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## bonsai dave

Where did you get the suction cups from?


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## tony1928

bonsai dave said:


> Where did you get the suction cups from?


Looks like something you can get from Michael's craft stores


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## 2wheelsx2

tony1928 said:


> Looks like something you can get from Michael's craft stores


Yep, I got it from Michael's.


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## Sidius

That's an awesome setup. I'll be investing in one of those for sure. It already takes way too long to change my 90 with the crappy flow rate I get from my kitchen tap (it's the only tap in my house I can connect the python to). It'll still take a while to fill it but hey, we can't always win.


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