# troubles already



## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

i sold my discus last night to a member and he tells me hes having issues already. i had all these fish for a long time so i want to help him figure things out. He told me they have a bunch of different issues from white spots on one and a eye issue on another and some fuzz on the other or something. i fed my fish last night and i didnt see anything wrong with them besides one was kinda skinny. i mean i looked at them all so can all this happen overnight? i like those fish so what should we do? i have not really even herd of half the things hes describing


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

That's really awful Dean as I know how much you and the buyer love these Discus. How far off was the water chemistry between your two locations? I do not know alot about Discus other than stable water conditions are needed. I really hope you guys get some good advice from some of the other Discus Gurus here. Good luck and I feel for both of you!


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

Oh and maybe get a Mod to move this to the Hospital section...


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

good idea any ideas do you think they will settle after a while? sounds serious


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## Tarobot (Jun 27, 2010)

how many discus did he add to the tank at the same time, whats tank size and what are its inhabitants, how long did he acclimate for?


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

Well thats one thing I wass bumbed about they are going in a 75 I think but quarantined them in a 30 gal. 9 full adult discus 4 loach


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah I'd say water quality issues. The white on fins could be from gasping off air bubbles. Cloudy eye could be from ammonia or ph sliding with so many discus and if the filter doesn't keep up ph slides fast . Fungus...well..how did you transport? In a bucket? A bunch of discus in a bucket can end up with ammonia burn, cloudy eye or suffocate very fast. Fins can't burn, then fungus. 
He would be better to throw them in the 75 unless he has recently acquired discus from another source. Tell him to add salt.


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## MEDHBSI (Sep 4, 2011)

water change water change water change thats all I can say


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## sunshine_1965 (Aug 16, 2011)

I agree with the water change idea. What temp is the new tank at. Discus need a warm tank. Hope all works out and the fish recover.


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

I would agree about the water and the bigger tank, that 30g is way to small even with daily wc. i would get them in the 75g asap unless there are other qt in there and change 50% a day until they look better and add some salt like April said. if you can't move them i would do 2x 80% wc a day, 9 Adults in a 30g are going to spoil the water fast. also loaches are ich magnets when stressed so move them away from the Discus if possible. Hope it works out for you 2.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I dont know anything about discus but I would think perhaps the discus are really stressed out by the new envirnoment and perhaps the water and so on...also would agree to seperate the loaches from the discus. Does the buyer have experince keeping discus?


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

If the temp is above 84 there shouldn't be any ick issues. But..loaches don't go for large wcs. I'd say the wcs will kill them. Especially if water fluctuates or not cycled.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Hi everyone I purchased the discus from dino last night (Monday) I do have min experience 3 months I have been keeping them! studied before getting them cause I was nervous at first! I got my first 3 on Craigslist from a fellow in Richmond! came with tank stand!
2 hrs to get them home used battery operated air pump on way home! never any problems.I purchased another one in Richmond @ pjs pets kept in bag in Styrofoam box was 5 hrs before I got home! acclimatize for 1 hr slow drip and kept small heater and air pump going and all is good! Just bought another one from Rick (Canadian Aqua Farm Discus Hatchery) 2 weeks ago 2 hrs before i got home! did same procedure! 5 healthy discus in another 30g 2 x smaller ones 2.5" all doing good! Brought dino's home right away and used same procedure 1 hr drip etc looked fine at first was concerned about one loach at first! white spots and what looked like skin around eye! must have been something from bucket? loaches are in own qt tank they are clean looking know? freaked me out never had issues before with these guys! I already have 3 x 4-6" ones and 8 x 2" and another 6 x 1" in qt tank picked up from IPU doing excellent! these guys seem to be breathing a bit hard but cruising around and eating tonight! one lge one is kind of tipping a bit? and not eating rest seem ok! BAD NEWS DISCUS IN MENTION HAS PASSED! seemed very rapid! brought them home to clean bottom less tank cycled used 1 teaspoon discus buffer (same I use on my others) and did the 1.5 hr acclimatize dino said he keeps them at 82 I keep mine at 85 so I adjusted water to 83 not to shock them to much.(with intentions to raise slowly later on) turned light off right away for the night.this morning we turn on light to see fish and my wife notice's side fin (near gill) sorry not up on all the names, fin is shredded and we see red ring around the fin, and white cotton coming out of the fin area! that was at 1 pm worst by 5pm put in qt tank slowly again and used melafix and pima fix and went to work and got home at midnight and she had passed! fin was worst shape almost gone? qt was cycled fresh tank did w/c 50% before putting her in to make sure! she had perfect water also keeping temp same! hope I don't lose anymore (discus) to stress full! and upsetting! 
Did everything the same has before with discus no probs there was 8 discus 3 being larger then average and a couple of smaller ones! I am cycling a 90 g to put all discus in, new ones and my 5! making sure its safe and ready before I do this! I am puzzled has well! 
Did small w/c due to 1 am in morning! 20% w/c added 4 tablespoons of aquarium salt.and a bit of prime! around 4 of the 7 discus were eating black worms tonight! bigger ones weren't, one large one that Dino mentioned looked skinny is not eating!! has scratches down is side has well but no signs of fungus or cotton if you will? the ones eating seem to be chasing around having fun!

So this is the most accurate account that I can give at this time if anyone knows what the heck happened??? I appreciate your comments! I had one notion that in the move home she some how got injured? clown loaches do have very hard sharp thingy near there mouth? but just seemed to progress so fast? unfortunately I did not examine each fish has we moved them, not till next day when i we seen the problem!! a lesson learned I guess! I should move in bags in one per package next time! thanks for any help in advance!!


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

Sorry to hear. The one skinny one most
Likely needs treating with metronidazole if not eating. Is it the albino rsg? 

Could've
Been net or damage from moving in the one that died. Fungus spreads fast. 
Don't get more from all different sources. All it takes is one carrying disease and whammo you could end up with a skin virus and all tanks sick. Until you've seen black sick discus... You don't realize the risks. They can look perfectly healthy but had been sick and can carry disease for up to 6
Months.
You don't need to do an hour drip. Harder in the fish sitting in a bucket than netting and dropping in. You can go up in temp right away just not down. Going up in ph is ok. Going down is not
Ok. No reason to use discus buffer. Our water is too soft already. I'd buffer up with equilibrium and keep the oh stable and add minerals if anything. Discus just want stable ph. 7 is ok, 7.5 is ok and 8 is ok as long as stable. 
There's one guy in Kansas that raises at 10ph. He had a huge hatchery .


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## seanyuki (Apr 22, 2010)

You mentioned eating blackworms......live,frozen or FDBW.......plenty of clean water and raised the temperature to 33 to 34 Celsius with salt(coarse salt)and monitor them and when using Metro 10-14 days is essential.


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## sunshine_1965 (Aug 16, 2011)

Hey Bob. Sorry to hear about the loss. Hope it is limited to just the 1.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I would not mix discus together especially when some are from PJ Pets (did you get them buy-1- get-1- free?). 
Rick's are very high quality and should be parasite free, and Dino sounds like a great owner who looks after his discus.
Quanrantee does nto really mean much if you only put those from the same source in the same tank because once you mix them they could still have problems from what I have read.
I did see some problems when I went to look at the discus in PJ Pets before they got rid of them with the buy 1 get 1 free promotion before they closed down. In my opinion, they all look very thin and dark and pointy. The manager there is a very nice guy and knows a great deal about fish but he is not alwasy there and not all his staff are knowledgable enough to look after the discus tank unfortuantely.
Rick told me discus do not like to have too much 'stuff' in their water. I am nto sure how you should trest them at this point. I would keep Rick's in a seperate tank, and give him clean water and keep up with my water change. I will never put his close to those from PJ Pets. 
FYI you can get 6 juvie discus for $100 from Rick which is a great deal. I got some from the same batch and they are very healthy and I cannot be more happy. If you follow his instruction they will grow and stay healthy.
I have looked at IPU and PJ Pets's discus. I will never mix any discus from any LFS with Rick's, it is just too risky.
Unfortunately, discus is not like most other fish, they are much more sensitive and much less forgiving.
I think taking so long to acclimatize them after such a long trip is very stressful for them. They do need lots of oxygen.
With Rick's discus I know his water is clean and they are healthy so I did not take long before I just poured everything in my tank. But if it was from PJ Pets I would definitely discard the water (I wont get those discus to begin with). Fish may look very fine carrying all sorts of pathogens or what not just because they are used to and become immune to them or whatever but once you mix them with fish that are not used to it they can get sick very quickly. 
Dino sounds like someone who keeps his discus in great condition. Not trying to attack anyone but some of the LFS do not really provide their discus with clean water or good living condition (they have many staff on shift and many customers and other things to attend to, plus not everyone has the same experience/knowledge/or passion to look after discus...when discus are sharing water with other tanks once some fish die--which happens very often in LFS--the discus can be affected) so it is quite risky.
I have learned my lessons the hard way. Discus is one fish you do really need to go get from a high quality source. In that regard, I always feel that we are very lucky yo have Rick here so we can just go buy from him with confidence when we want high quality discus. 
I am very sorry you are going through this, I hope it all works all.
Just my 2 cents.
Good luck.


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

I think bob has done everything well im sure they will bounce back. I just hope they eat hes got the temp close to what I had and our water should be similar


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

I got them from all different people but ive had them for a long time but they are not ricks or aprils or some others quality because im no pro also why I gave him a load of fish for the price of the two breeders he got. Hope it works out


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Sorry if you miss under stood Haven't mixed the discus yet! Dino's are in 30g qt by themselves! my 5 are in there own tank! I do need to get all these guys eventually in the 90g (mix them) my five are doing excellent big eaters healthy w/c once a week 50% temp at 85!
Dino's fish are all doing good today haven't put lights on yet but there all swimming around! will try feeding again later! using fdbw I got from rick and bloodworms! clown loaches are all fine 4 small one in 10g qt tank having fun eating!! hope evrything has settled down! so should I continue with w/c daily? or weekly have fluval 304 running this 30 g dont want to miss with the bacteria? this filter is well established 9 months!


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

mrbob said:


> Sorry if you miss under stood Haven't mixed the discus yet! Dino's are in 30g qt by themselves! my 5 are in there own tank! I do need to get all these guys eventually in the 90g (mix them) my five are doing excellent big eaters healthy w/c once a week 50% temp at 85!
> Dino's fish are all doing good today haven't put lights on yet but there all swimming around! will try feeding again later! using fdbw I got from rick and bloodworms! clown loaches are all fine 4 small one in 10g qt tank having fun eating!! hope evrything has settled down! so should I continue with w/c daily? or weekly have fluval 304 running this 30 g dont want to miss with the bacteria? this filter is well established 9 months!


I would keep up the water changes.


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am no expert but if it was me I would continue with water change and use a sponge filter or something that is easier to keep clean. Personally I have found that with canister filter it is hard to keep clean (especially in the tubings) and there are many places inside where bacteria can grow so I would prefer not to use it with discus especially if they may be sick. But that is just me.
Anyway, good luck and glad to ehar that they are settling in.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Update: The three large real skinny discus are NOT EATING will get some meds today what April recommended! don't know why these guys are so skinny and scraped up? Dino's tanks looked very clean and pristine! thats why I didnt question the fish had to grab them fast was in hurry! didn't realize till i got home that the 3 large ones were so skinny! especially the biggest one! other 4 are pigging out racing around having fun.The three big ones are just hanging on bottom not eating and the biggest scrapped up one keeps going sideways? I think That's a bad thing?


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

30g was one big cichlid in there took out did 50% water change even thou it was just done Sunday added 1 teaspoon discus buffer ph 7.1 nitrite 0 ammonia 0 put in 5 small to med discus and 3 large discus and slow dripped the discus for 1hr in pail with small heater and air pump going!


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## Lamplighter (Aug 3, 2012)

I lost a dozen discus a few months ago. I was going to give 5 away but they all turned black and died before I reached a decision regarding who to give them to. I think that it's great that you guys support each other and trade information.

There was a guy called Dr. Herbert Axelrod an ichthyologists that trekked around the world collecting fish. I believe that one of his books stated that if a discus turns black it's on it's way to green pastures. That is evidently not always the case anymore.

Water change appears to be an universal answer for sick discus. That's the avenue that most discus keepers from here take. 

I know that fishdragon does not take that path and he's certainly not isolated in having that opinion. I bought my fish from him and I did massive water changes and the fish died. There's a saying that goes "The proof is in the pudding." The fact is that fishdragon has discus that are alive indicates that he's doing something correct. 

I've seen Ricks discus at CAF and they certainly looked healthy as well. 

I guess you have to do whatever the fish are used to.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

When they go black they have mucous slime coat disease or bacterial or stressed to the max. Water quality and stability is what they need. Nitrates, ammonia, ph crash..etc can make them go dark. 
It's not really what they are used to ...rather how you do the wcs and keep the parameters stable while doing it. 
Water storage is an easier way of not shocking them. Bb tanks are a bit of a learning curve .


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

UPDATE: so far so good temp up to 89 using Metronidazole and changing 50% w/c every other day and I temped them with blood worms and the 3 big guys ate a couple of worms not alot but a start! they were pretty sick when they got here skinny not eating but I think I got things on the right track! Thanks to everyone especially April & Rick for you expert advice!! I will be supporting April and Ricks business more often!!


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## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am so glad your discus are doing better. Hope they will settle in soon.
Yes, I agree I always believe that we should support the local business especially when it is one which has tried to give back so much to our community such as Rick's and April's.
Good luck.


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## Canadian_Aqua_Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

mrbob said:


> UPDATE: so far so good temp up to 89 using Metronidazole and changing 50% w/c every other day and I temped them with blood worms and the 3 big guys ate a couple of worms not alot but a start! they were pretty sick when they got here skinny not eating but I think I got things on the right track! Thanks to everyone especially April & Rick for you expert advice!! I will be supporting April and Ricks business more often!!


I'm glad to hear that they are starting to do better.


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## mollyb (May 18, 2010)

Don't forget to increase aeration with the higher temp.


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

When you dose metro you should be
Dosing 500 mg per 10 gallons daily. 50 percent wc then reside the full amount . If you dose the instructions in the package it
May not work. Discus need a lot more. They are antibiotics. If it doesn't work then they become immune. So do it at
500 for at least 5 days or until they are eating. 
I have metro if you need more. 
Good luck.


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Ok I will boost it up right away thank you so much for your help!! will stop by next Thursday and meet you! thank you again everybody yes lots of air!


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

Fingers cross discus doing good eating good some like pigs! sticking to what April and Rick said to do!! need more METRO asap cant get any more in Chilliwack for 3 weeks? if anyone knows? please advise! Thank you


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## seanyuki (Apr 22, 2010)

You need a digital gram scale to measure 500 mg Metro per 10 gallons for treatment......

I am using the Jennings JS 200XV to weight meds.

Jennings JS-200XV


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## April (Apr 21, 2010)

I may be in xhilliwack on Wednesday. I could bring some ...depending on my work schedule. I arrive there around 5 .


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

thank you so much April!!


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