# Red Plants



## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

What are some nice red plants that I can pick up locally? I'm looking for ones that don't require co2 as I can't afford to buy that equipment right now.

Cheers,
Chris


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

effox said:


> What are some nice red plants that I can pick up locally? I'm looking for ones that don't require co2 as I can't afford to buy that equipment right now.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris


Red ones are usually pretty tricky to keep. I always struggled with red plants and without co2 and probably iron dosing it might be difficult.

Red tiger lotus on the other hand is one I had luck with

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I can handle the nutrient dosing, I'm just weary of co2 as I bought a paintball co2 tank\regulator off a member and it seems to continually purge.

It's a 10g tank I'm starting, so I don't think I'd want a tiger lotus, those suckers pads can get pretty big. Really cool looking though.


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## Tommy72a (Jan 6, 2013)

IMO it's easier to grow to red plants in iron rich substrate. Example Seachem fluorite.


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## vdub (Apr 22, 2010)

If your setup is continually purging, there's probably a leak somewhere. Is this a commercially bought setup or a DIY one?



effox said:


> I can handle the nutrient dosing, I'm just weary of co2 as I bought a paintball co2 tank\regulator off a member and it seems to continually purge.
> 
> It's a 10g tank I'm starting, so I don't think I'd want a tiger lotus, those suckers pads can get pretty big. Really cool looking though.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Commercially bought one, got it off a member. Seems the regulator is hinky when I bought it, otherwise I simply don't know wth I'm doing, lol.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

I have Althernatera Reinickii and Rotala Macandra, I dont find it hard to keep. They require high CO2 dosage to keep them red and helathy. I can cut some for you if you want to try.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I'll get the tank refilled and see if I have better luck. Wouldn't want the plants to go to waste if they require high co2.

I'll pm you if it works. Thanks Crimper!


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I say rotala indica or rotala rotundifolia. Reineckii should stay reddish though they definately prefer co2. Should be weaned off co2, I moved some plants from a high co2 tank to a fairly low co2 and they melted quite a bit. 
I say perhaps even better for a red plant is ludwigia arcuata. Should be redder than rotala grows a bit slower, and like the plants before stays fairly small, and doesn't need co2.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

effox said:


> I'll get the tank refilled and see if I have better luck. Wouldn't want the plants to go to waste if they require high co2.
> 
> I'll pm you if it works. Thanks Crimper!


Sounds good. PM me when you are ready.

I have both plants on my natural aquarium (click on my 20G Planted Lab on my sig), they both survive but leaves wont turn red. They were yellow-green 

Just in case you consider getting a CO2 tank... get these:

10 lb. Aluminum Co2 Tank | BeverageFactory.com

Taprite T742 - Commercial Dual Gauge Primary Keg Beer Regulator | BeverageFactory.com

Total Price $ 148.58 shipped to Sumas or Blaine.


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## Tommy72a (Jan 6, 2013)

Hey Crimper, I'm curious. How much co2 are you injecting in your 90 gallon (I've seen his tank in person and its awesome) in terms of bubble per second?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm growing Ludwigia repens in plain sand with root tabs when I remember (like every 6 months) and they're plenty red, in my discus tank, even at 28.5 C. It's been so long that I got this plant I can't even remember who was it that I got it off, but it was from a younger forum member here. Cheap too. If you're interested in trying some, I can give you some trimming when it comes up.

You can see it in this pic, as I started it out in the back and have propagated with cuttings in 3 areas now. Only the top halves are red as my tank is 24" deep and the lights are almost a foot above the water surface. So almost 3 feet from light to substrate.


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## Vancitycam (Oct 23, 2012)

View attachment 15174

This one on the left is bright red as the new shoots come up then darken to a wine color as they age and then go green, unless I keep up with ferts and this tank is only substrate and water with lights really low tech. Not sure of the plant kind maybe gurus can chime in...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

That's a melon sword or Echinordorus osiris I believe. I have one in my discus tank too, but it's too far from the light source and doesn't like the high temps. Yours is very nice.


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## jkcichlid (Apr 21, 2010)

crytocoryne wendti 'mi oya' is fairly reddish and keeps its color and grows fine without co2


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## Vancitycam (Oct 23, 2012)

2wheelsx2 that must be a melon sword, thanks also for the kind words. Just showing simple set ups with plants of all types can grow nuts. Haha hope that helped.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Tommy72a said:


> Hey Crimper, I'm curious. How much co2 are you injecting in your 90 gallon (I've seen his tank in person and its awesome) in terms of bubble per second?


Hi Tommy,

Thanks for the kind words.

Approx 2-3 bubbles per second. I used to have a drop checker and maintain it until its slightly yellow (slightly high) coz those red plants go crazy when CO2 is abundant. Now I know my plant behavior, I adjust it based on what I 've seen on my plants. I kinda learn their tendencies so I tweak the CO2 dosage based on what I'm seeing.

I don't dose iron anymore, i don't find it necessary unless the plants shows iron deficiency.

How about your tank? How is it going? Drop me a message if you have questions.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

crimper said:


> Hi Tommy,
> 
> I don't dose iron anymore, i don't find it necessary unless the plants shows iron deficiency.
> 
> How about your tank? How is it going? Drop me a message if you have questions.


No iron?! Wow! My macrandra turns green very easily. I have to dose a ton of iron to keep it even a little red.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Reckon said:


> No iron?! Wow! My macrandra turns green very easily. I have to dose a ton of iron to keep it even a little red.


Yes Reckon, I stop dosing Iron since I put my discus in there, they say high concentration of iron takes a toll on discus. I didn't see any difference on my red plants after a month of not dosing so I stopped it, I dose trace anyway.

My Macandra turns yellow green when my CO2 is low.

Here's the pic taken 2 weeks ago:










Here's Macandras on my natural aquarium setup (without CO2 injection nor liquid carbon dosing)


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

crimper said:


> My Macandra turns yellow green when my CO2 is low.


That seems to be the root of most problems. People try all kinds of schemes like iron dosing, upping K, changing substrates, and limiting nitrate (this one actually seems to work), but in the end it seems to be mostly light/CO2 which makes plants red or not.

I'm wanting to try L. aromatica now that I've found that with T5HO and LED I can make any plant red that has red in it. With T5NO even with a 12" high tank I could never get anything but the tips red.


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## Vancitycam (Oct 23, 2012)

Hey crimper looks good and that's a pretty big contrast with and without co2 I have to check into this stuff and educate myself a lot more haha I wonder what my tank could look like.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> That seems to be the root of most problems. People try all kinds of schemed like iron dosing, upping K, changing substrates, and limiting nitrate (this one actually seems to work), but in the end it seems to be mostly light/CO2 which makes plants red or not.
> 
> I'm wanting to try L. aromatica now that I've found that with T5HO and LED I can make any plant red that has red in it. With T5NO even with a 12" high tank I could never get anything but the tips red.


Hi 2wheels2x, i have done those experiments with iron dosing but didnt find significant difference on those plants, especially P. Stellata . I was only able to turn their tips redish. however i got good results non the Macandras and reinickiis, but its not the iron dosing that i found that makes them red, its the CO2. I have pushed the iron dosing to the maximum level that the fish can tolerate but failed to make Stellata to turn red.



Vancitycam said:


> Hey crimper looks good and that's a pretty big contrast with and without co2 I have to check into this stuff and educate myself a lot more haha I wonder what my tank could look like.


Thanks, Vancitycam. Its fun learning new stuffs every day. What I normally do is test and validate all the theories that i gathered from all the forums until Im convinced that that's exactly what happening in my tank.

"Dont hesitate to test unconventional wisdom, please tell us what happened."


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## Tommy72a (Jan 6, 2013)

crimper said:


> Hi Tommy,
> 
> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> ...


My tank is doing really well, thanks for asking. I struggled with some diatom, small amount of hair algae and lot of slime algae on the surface of the water (preventing efficient gas exchange at top). My first reaction was to back off on dosing but that didn't work. Got a new phosphate test kit and it revealed that my tank needed more PO4. Bumped up my dosing and appears its under control. im confident that i found my routine now. i just wish my water is a bit more clear, I think I may have a small green water problem?? I'm dosing in the styling of perpetual preservation system but tweaked a bit to my liking. Most of the plants I bought from you and Biem are doing really well. Most of the stem plants are showing new growth, some of them up to 2 inchs! I will keep this short as I don't want to hijack the thread. Hopefully I will find some time to do a tank journal.
Cheers!
Tommy


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Tommy72a said:


> My tank is doing really well, thanks for asking. I struggled with some diatom, small amount of hair algae and lot of slime algae on the surface of the water (preventing efficient gas exchange at top). My first reaction was to back off on dosing but that didn't work. Got a new phosphate test kit and it revealed that my tank needed more PO4. Bumped up my dosing and appears its under control. im confident that i found my routine now. i just wish my water is a bit more clear, I think I may have a small green water problem?? I'm dosing in the styling of perpetual preservation system but tweaked a bit to my liking. Most of the plants I bought from you and Biem are doing really well. Most of the stem plants are showing new growth, some of them up to 2 inchs! I will keep this short as I don't want to hijack the thread. Hopefully I will find some time to do a tank journal.
> Cheers!
> Tommy


Good to hear that everything is well on you. About diatom/green water, cut on light a little bitband you should be fine. Do a journal so we can see your progress.

Cheers!


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Don't be afraid of highjacking THIS thread, I got the info I wanted, and a lead for a source, so I'm a happy guy.

I'd love to see more pics.


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## Tommy72a (Jan 6, 2013)

Okay quick update on my hair algae. After bringing up my PO4 level to 1.5 ppm, reduced lighting by 1 hour, it cleared up immediately. That was on Friday, clear through out the weekend. Today I got home from work and noticed they are back again! On the same spot, all over my moss. That was in matter of 24 hrs. Test revealed 0ppm on PO4, gave extra dose above and beyond my daily dose. I will remix my dose with 15 - 25 % more phosphate this time ( I'm using PPS dosing method) and see what happens.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Ah, I see the PPS method. I used that for a little while and even my modified EI dosing is closer to PPS philosophy. I've bottomed out a few times before with PO4, it is definately the limiting factor in PPS dosing regiment.


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## Tommy72a (Jan 6, 2013)

Hi Reckon

I chose the PPS, because of the low volume water change. In my humble opinion think 50% WC on EI dosing is too much for the fish. Then again, I may give up and try EI dosing.

Off topic... I noticed you list Dwarf Rainbows in your 55G. I just got 8 of them myself and I think they are awesome (very under-rated) and seems to do well with my Rummies and Cardinals... I'm hoping to add Shrimps in the near future but do you think they would leave them alone? Or do you think they would end up as a very expensive live meal?


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm a big fan of the dwarf rainbows as well. I'm not sure if they eat shrimp, I've never kept them together before. I do know however that your rummies will eat shrimp, probably your cardinals too. If the rummies are a bit on the smaller side you will see them 'hunt' shrimp in small groups, the biggest one will make a grab, then the rest comes in to pull it apart.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Hey we belong to the Raibow Fans club :lol: I'll gonna get those Neon Rainbows too. 

Yes my Cardinal Tetras chomp RCS, all my RCS vanished from my 90G tank


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## Tommy72a (Jan 6, 2013)

Dang it.. Perhaps I will try Amano shrimp as they are little bit bigger.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

Tommy72a said:


> Dang it.. Perhaps I will try Amano shrimp as they are little bit bigger.


But Amano would not breed on clean tanks :lol: it needs muggy brakish water to breed


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

crimper said:


> But Amano would not breed on clean tanks :lol: it needs muggy brakish water to breed


Amanos will breed in freshwater....quite frequently in fact. I've seen clutches of eggs constantly when I still had Amanos. But the young go through a larval stage and those won't survive in freshwater very long.


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## crimper (Oct 20, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Amanos will breed in freshwater....quite frequently in fact. I've seen clutches of eggs constantly when I still had Amanos. But the young go through a larval stage and those won't survive in freshwater very long.


That explains it. Yes my amanos laid eggs so many times, but never seen a single shrimplet survive.


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## Tommy72a (Jan 6, 2013)

Ya I'm putting together a clean up crew. 

oto cats - 2-3 (I do love them)
12 Amanos


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Speaking of red plants, strangely my L. Glandulosa turned green and has been green for a while. 3 39watt bulbs over a 50gal tank. About 30-40ppm of CO2. Still stays green. Repens is only red when around the top 4 inches of the tank. Perhaps I do need more light?


I'm using 6 otos and 2 crosso reticulatus in my 50gal tank. The latter fish gets pretty big though and my smaller blue-eyed rainbows and dwarf cichlids ones don't seem comfortable with them. I'd stick to amanos and otos.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

How old are the bulbs? If they're older, you might not need more lights, just newer bulbs.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

Bulbs are 3 month of Geisemanns; x2 6000k and x1 flora


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Are the highest plants red or are all of them, regardless of height in the water column, red at the top 4"? In my cube, the top 6" - 8" are red and then the rest is green because tank tank is 24" high and the light is another 9" above that so the bottoms are shaded.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

All the red plants are at equal level from the substrate, only ones that are red from the bottom are A. reineckii and R. Macrandra (sorta red). 
L. Inclinata is orange and slightly more red closer to the top. 
Just L. Repens and L. Glandulosa stay green, L. repens turns a little red closer to the top. 
R. Colorata is completely green. 
R. Rotundifolia is mainly green
R. Inclinata is green and pink but pink is pale/washed out.
L. Aromatica stays green.
Both my high tech tanks are 18" in height, substrate 2" thick.
Dosing Fe increases reds for about 1 day. I dose about 0.6ppm of Fe (LOTS!).
I'm pretty sure I need to up the lighting. I might try putting an extra fixture on top to see if it helps.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Is it possible to up your CO2 a bit? Tom Barr and several others are up around 50+ ppm for CO2 in their tanks with a lot of red plants. You could try the extra fixture, but then you would up the CO2 also to compensate so you'll not know which problem it is. Maybe try to up the CO2 a bit and then if that doesn't work up the lighting since you already have the CO2 dialed up.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm generally quite aggressive with my co2, indicator is solid yellow. hence, my initial panic when I tried adding cories and apistos 2 weeks ago. I'll try a bit more though...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I hear ya...catfish and CO2 are very friendly. Hence the reason I've moved away from high light tanks except one.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I do love my red plants. But yes, perhaps the issues with red plants is a nice advocate for great looking moss, and java fern scapes we see in the 'favorite aquascapes' thread.

Also, I remember Tom posting on his forum that if you want redness out of plants just get the ones that are always red.

I actually don't expect lots of red from my plants anymore, I'm be happy with some orange


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Reckon said:


> Also, I remember Tom posting on his forum that if you want redness out of plants just get the ones that are always red.


Yep, I had a conversation with him and that was his exact response on a thread I participated in. So that's why I have lots of Ludwigia repens now.


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