# The Brackish Tank, No Longer Tidal



## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

So it's been about 48 hours since I posted http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/diy-area-18/i-have-dream-brackish-vivarium-mesh-open-air-area-33583/ and I've learned a whole lot. I figured I'd start a tank journal to track my progress and keep the notes public.

My goal is to create a brackish tank that simulates tidal mangrove beaches. I'd like to keep archers and mudskippers in there, along with some other interesting brackish fish. Maybe some gobies, maybe some crabs. There will be live mangroves that I hope to grow an interesting root structure on. This post has my plans so far. I'd love feedback on my plans.

*Tank Size*

Since it's tidal, the tank will always be at least 1/3 full. When the tide comes in, it will be 2/3s full so that the mangrove tips are always out and have room to grow. This gives space for the skippers and archer lunch (ie crickets) to grab onto while tide is up. This all means the tank needs to be tall (24", but 32" is better).

I'm planning on getting smallscale archers, which typically top out at 6". They need more than half there body length to turn around and be happy. They don't really care about depth so much, mostly surface area. For my space, 18" is ideal and 24" may work.

Finally, my space for the tank will accomodate a 48" wide tank at most. After playing around with spreadsheets, I figure I have to hit 48" in order to have a decent amount of space.

With all that considered, I think the best options are either a 90 or 115 g tank that has a base of 48x18. Assuming a 115g, it'll be 31" tall.

At 115. I'll get about 30g at low tide with a 4.5' square surface area. That's a 1' beach with a 1.5x3 pool. I figure 3 smallscales will ok in the low tide space, knowing they'll have 6' for half the day.

In this scenario, the tide is about 30g for about 60g of water at the tides highest point.

*Sump vs Filter*

My original intention was to use a canister filter + reservoir, but that doesn't leave a lot of space below the tank. Plus it leaves a lot of unfiltered water for most of the day.

My plan is to stick a bin approximately 41x19x16 (for example, 50 Gallon Jumbo Storage Tote by Rubbermaid Home - 2550CPCYLND - More Storage totes at doitbest.com) under the tank. I'll fill a drilled icecream bucket with bioballs and feed the returns through this. The idea is to minimize the ball movement due to reservoir volume changes. I could be way off on this -- I assume I want some movement, I just don't want to hear them kicking around and I assume they need to be somewhat close together to be effective?

The sump will have 30g tide capacity plus about 10g always in the reservoir and then 10g of overflow.

A 41x16 bin is about 2.6 gallons per inch, so there will be ~ 4" of water in the sump at all times. 10g of overflow should be plenty, considering there is going to be 70g total and the stand pipes should never let less than 30g be in the tank.

One concern I have for pumps -- the pump will have to push 24" + 32" up. A lot of smaller pumps I've seen have a max height right around that level.

*Tide Simulation*

I figure there are two methods I could use: 1 constant pump + 1 pump on a timer vs 1 pump plus some sort of magical timer valve that lets me control a % of water that gets through. I haven't found one of these yet.

For the constant pump, let's say it pushes 300gph. A stand pipe will be set at low tide height and be limited to 350gph. On a timer, the second pump will kick in and push 50gph plus whatever rate we want to fill the tank with. Another high tide stand pipe will return the water.

Do I want to have a slow gradual fill/return over 12 hours or surge. "Surge" in this context is 30 minutes +, not a big tidal wave. I think surge is better and a little more natural -- for example, the tide for this particular place takes 1 hour to come up, stays up for 3 hours and takes another hour to drain.

*Beach Configuration*

I'm planning on using pool sand as a substrate. There will be an inch on the bottom of the tank. I'll build a shelf for the beach with egg crate, or possibly something more plant friendly.. I'd like to have one of mangroves growing in the beach. I do have some concerns with the mangrove roots growing where I can't see them -- I've heard given time they'll bust a tank open... time being 5+ years.

I was originally thinking of doing a 1' beach with a gradual drop off. Using something like pool sand, I don't think I'll be able to keep the sand in place. I suspect I'll have to build a rock slope leading up to the beach.

That's all for now..


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

You could probably terrace the beach, or set egg crate at an angle and backfill with sand. Looking forward to seeing this progress - very cool idea!


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Elle said:


> You could probably terrace the beach, or set egg crate at an angle and backfill with sand. Looking forward to seeing this progress - very cool idea!


I was definitely thinking about building with egg crate to avoid a 12" pile of sand. I was originally thinking a single terrace -- just a big lip of rocks to hold the sand in. Another way would be to build steps out of the egg crate and pile rocks on it, then back fill the beach with sand. Is that what you mean by setting egg crate at an angle?

I've seen egg crate suspended by pvc pipe to increase the height. What do I put on top of it to stop the sand from falling in?


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

this would be wicked to have: 
File:Mangrove environment at the Touch Tank display of the Oklahoma Aquarium.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

neven said:


> this would be wicked to have:
> File:Mangrove environment at the Touch Tank display of the Oklahoma Aquarium.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Until I have a house with an indoor swimming pool to convert I'll have to stick with a 100g-ish tank. Plus I couldn't imagine the sump/reservoir I'd need for that.


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## PurpleMonkey (Nov 28, 2011)

for tides, have you considered using a "surge system"? They are often used on SW tanks and there are a couple of different designs/options I believe. Try googling "Carlson Surge system" to get started


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## er201 (Apr 21, 2010)

GaryR said:


> I was definitely thinking about building with egg crate to avoid a 12" pile of sand. I was originally thinking a single terrace -- just a big lip of rocks to hold the sand in. Another way would be to build steps out of the egg crate and pile rocks on it, then back fill the beach with sand. Is that what you mean by setting egg crate at an angle?
> 
> I've seen egg crate suspended by pvc pipe to increase the height. What do I put on top of it to stop the sand from falling in?


you can use window screens. Should hold the sand in place.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

PurpleMonkey said:


> for tides, have you considered using a "surge system"? They are often used on SW tanks and there are a couple of different designs/options I believe. Try googling "Carlson Surge system" to get started


Interesting, although I'm not necessarily looking to make waves. Maybe when I get the tank flowing I could get a wave generator and some power heads to fire up with the tide comes in.. budget budget budget.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

er201 said:


> you can use window screens. Should hold the sand in place.


Cool. I was originally thinking of plexiglass, but this is going to be way cheaper and will probably allow some flow through the sand.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Planning progresses. I'm starting to get all the pieces I'll need and a budget for them.

I think the best tank size is going to be a 110/115g tall (48x18x30ish). If I come across a 150 tall (24" wide) for the right price, I'd probably take it too. That size leaves plenty of room for a 1' shelf and a 1' slopping beach and plenty of surface area for the archers.

The next trick is getting a sump to fit under the tank. I've pretty much resigned myself to making a custom stand to accomodate a big sump. For a 48x18 tank, it's about 3.7 gallons/inch. An 8 inch tide is 30 gallons. That means I'll need at least a 40 gallon sump, but probably 50. 55 gallon tanks are common, but tend to be longer than 48 inches. I may have to tune the water level change a bit. On the plus side, I never have to worry about overflowing the main tank if the stand pipes get clogged since there isn't 115g in the whole system.

The last thing I need to figure out is where I'm going to get the fish and approximately what they're going to cost. I haven't had time to really call around and see. Anyone have suggestions where I'll be able to find small scale archerfish?


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## Jasonator (Jul 12, 2011)

For your shelf, you could try a slate (or similar thin stuff) partition and silicon a couple dead men to keep everything in place.

If need be, google deadman in regards to building/landscaping.

Justa thought


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

if you own your residence you might be able to get away with a modular sump set up, so you have it below the tank and floor below/adjacent room


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

So I've acquired a 20g tank for free. I'm thinking about building a scale model of everything to test out my theories. Can anyone suggest a glass shop that they've had tanks drilled at in the tri cities? I was going to start calling around, but figured I look for recommendations first.

Alternatively, has anyone around me done drilling themselves? I'm happy to compensate beer/money/whatever.


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

i wont drill your tanks but i can give you a princess auto diamond bit that i've used for 8 holes, its a bit dull, but for a test model it will still work, will have really tiny chips (could be from crappy mandrill) that are well within the flange of a 3/4" bulkhead. several of my holes have the micro chips around their edge but you only see em without a bulkhead. you will need a mandrill for the bit though, i used a crappy princess auto one, wobbled a bit but it still drilled the hole.

Bean Animal's Bar and Grill - Hydraulics for the Aquarist
explains the flow rates better if you need to figure out what a siphon and open channel can handle. You would be suprised how much 3/4 can take


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

I found a tank! I picked up a 120g 48x24x24 on Thursday night on CL. Pretty sweet deal because it's drilled (4 holes) and has a 50g sump. Now I need to start planning my plumbing and gettings some pumps.

Here are the tanks after a bit of cleanup:


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

great score, cant wait to see this develop


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Update time..

Over December and January I didn't have much time to work on the tank. Xmas is Xmas and we took the family to Ireland and Scotland for 3 weeks in the beginning of January. Mix in some other craziness and I really hadn't had a chance to spend a lot of time on the tank.

I had done a lot of planning and diagramming.. Boxing week I went out and got a couple of Eheim pumps, some heaters, etc.

On Saturday I finally bit the bullet and bought the plumbing! It felt great to be taking the next step. I also spent a bunch of Sunday dry fitting it all together. I ran into a snag: one of my bulkheads was stripped, so I had to run out to J&L to get a new one. If that hadn't been the case,, I'd probably have gotten water in it.

Hopefully this weekend I'll get some more time to finish the plumbing and test it. After that, I need to move it into my office so I can start scaping it out!


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Another update.

I've been plugging away. I got all the plumbing hooked up, but was really disappointed in the amount I could effectively make the tide go up and down.. it was about 3", plus the amount of space to make beach really crippled the amount of water available. It essentially went from a 120g tank to a 30g tank. I made the tough decision to drop the tide and the beach. The water level is going to be lowered about 4" from the top of the tank. I'm also working on different ideas for a lid/canopy to allow the mangroves to grow out the top and keep the crickets in.

I got the tank plumbed and test ran it in my garage for a week or so, tuning it. After I had it running, I stripped it down and moved the tank and sump into my office so I could refinish the stand. A coat of paint really did the trick. It's going to look great when I have it all back and running.

Next steps:

- I need to add an additional baffle to my sump. I got the glass cut and picked up the silicone today
- I need to shorten the weir and re-install it -- I had to rip it out to be able to lower the water level. It was a box with glass sandwiched between two pieces of plastic. I've got two additional panes of glass to glue back onto the weir after I dremel a few inches off of it
- put the tank/stand/sump back together and re-plumb it all
- start scaping and cycle!
- build the canopy (more details to come later)

I also have my 20g tank back and enough of the pieces that I think I can start practicing my brackish maintenance. I've got sand, dry rock, salt and some power heads. I figure I can stock it with a few bumble bee gobies and experiment with the various snails and crabs I want to have as part of the community.

Step by step, it's coming along.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

What a great idea. Good luck with it. Looking forward to further progress and pics.


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm glad there is another brackish aquarium enthusiast around here. If you're going for the mangrove swamp idea, why don't you grab yourself a dragon goby? I have one that is tons of fun to watch, lots of character, always sifting through the sand creating dunes. Won't eat other fish either on account of its tiny throat. Lastly, they are an incredibly hardy fish enduring through all sorts of punishment. My goby (Betty) has been through the entire brackish learning experience with me, all the ups and downs, and has never had a single problem with health.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Master wilkins said:


> I'm glad there is another brackish aquarium enthusiast around here. If you're going for the mangrove swamp idea, why don't you grab yourself a dragon goby? I have one that is tons of fun to watch, lots of character, always sifting through the sand creating dunes. Won't eat other fish either on account of its tiny throat. Lastly, they are an incredibly hardy fish enduring through all sorts of punishment. My goby (Betty) has been through the entire brackish learning experience with me, all the ups and downs, and has never had a single problem with health.


There are a couple at mr pets in poco. Definitely a cool fish. I'm a bit torn because I was hoping to keep the tank a se Asia species tank.

My current stocking plains are:

- archers
- possibly mono argentus, I much prefer the yellow over sabae, but I don't want to go full marine
- orange chromides
- blue legged hermits - I've heard they are brackish and figured its worth a try
- I'm hoping some of the numerous nerite eggs in my fw tank will hatch in the brackish

I really wanted bb gobies, but I figure they'd end up as expensive feeders.

I've also considered knight gobies and the dragon.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Hey all,

This project has been stalled for too long now and if I don't get water in it in the next couple of weeks I think it's going to have to sit until the fall. 

I'm looking for some help on building a corner overflow box. The one that was in the tank had some issues and needs to be replaced. Any tips on either a place to buy pre-fabbed ones and/or tips on how to make one? I'm a bit wary of cutting the acrylic myself -- I want nice and straight edges and not something that looks all chewed up.

Thanks.


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

acrylic is super easy to work with, and for what you need you can actually just scribe and break it for a nice clean edge. Industrial Plastics in Richmond is a good place to go for them. I think JnL's has some pre-built ones too but they are pricy for something that actually can be done pretty easily. 


cant wait to see this tank come alive! such a good idea for the tidal surges and i've always been fasinated by archer fish. How are you going to deal with the water spray from them? I imagine with the mangroves your not going to want any kind of glass top on the tank


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

monkE said:


> acrylic is super easy to work with, and for what you need you can actually just scribe and break it for a nice clean edge. Industrial Plastics in Richmond is a good place to go for them. I think JnL's has some pre-built ones too but they are pricy for something that actually can be done pretty easily.
> 
> cant wait to see this tank come alive! such a good idea for the tidal surges and i've always been fasinated by archer fish. How are you going to deal with the water spray from them? I imagine with the mangroves your not going to want any kind of glass top on the tank


Good to know about the acrylic. I'll see if I can track some down this week.

I'm not doing a tidal tank this time around. I couldn't get enough of a change in water level to make it worth while.

I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do with the canopy yet. If I wasn't planning on feeding live bugs, I'd just leave it open, but that's the whole point of the tank 

My leading idea is to build a really tall canopy (2-3 feet) with a sheet of glass set in the front so you can see the mangroves/bugs/etc. I figure I'm going to have to use LED's or it's going to be too hot for the mangroves as they grow taller. I think it'll have to be really well vented to prevent condensation on the glass. I'd definitely love to hear suggestions for what others have done.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

The overflow box is in! Just waiting for the silicon to cure.









I hope to get the bulkheads in tomorrow night and leak test. Then it's off to the races.

Part of the motivation to get it done was these two guys I picked up from IPU:









They had a couple of mono argentus in. They won't last long in the 20g, so I definitely need to get the big tank going. They are by far the fastest fish I've ever kept, as you can see by the motion blur.

I've also moved one of my nerites into the 20g to see how it fairs. It's been busy cleaning up for a few days now.

By this time next week I hope to have the new tank cycling.


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

I have both mono argentus and mono sebae in my tank, they dont grow all that fast compared to some others. but yes they are real fast fish, whenever i put food in the tank they never let it touch the ground.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

I'm pumped! Tank is running silently in my office. I spent my free time over the past week tuning the plumbing. I've switched it over to a 'herbie' style overflow and it's whisper quiet. I hear the clicking of my timer, but not the pumps or the water flowing.

My goal for today is:

- drain the tank
- load the sand and place the rocks
- fill it back up and add the salt

With any luck, I'll be able to move the BBG's into my sump tomorrow to start the cycling.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

It feels so good to finally have this tank up and running.

I filled the tank on the weekend. I had to do a few water changes to clear the water up from the sand. I got the salt added latest night. 

This morning I transfered a seed rock, 5 gallons of water and the bumble bee gobies. 

The BBG's are in the sump, so it's a great big empty tank right now. I'll move the monos over once the tank shows some signs of cycling. 

I haven't had a chance to take any pictures yet. I'll post some soon.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

So here it is:

























It sure is lonely in there with just a couple of Monos. Time to start hunting down some more brackish fish  I'm still holding off on moving the cleanup crew.. at least until there is something substantial to clean up. The bumble bee gobies are living in the sump so they can get their fair share of blood worms.

Sometime in the fall I'll start working on a canopy for the tank and put an LED on it. For now, the grow lights on clamps will have to do.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Time for an update!









The 20g is empty now. Everything is moved over. I also picked up a dragon goby.

The current stock is:

- 3 bumble bee gobies in the sump
- 2 mono argentus
- 1 dragon goby
- 2 blue legged hermits
- about 10 nerite snails

My archerfish have been ordered. Sometime soon I'll pick up some more hermits and mangroves.

All the sand particulate had settled about a day after I filled the tank. Since putting the dragon goby in, the tank is a bit murky again. It liks to burrow under the rocks and spray the out. There are little piles of sand around the different hiding places it prefers. I figure it'll take several water changes to get the water clear again.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

Talk to Kurtis.He is the owner at the poco Bosley's.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

It's been a while since my last update.

Algae growth in brackish is pretty crazy. From the 20g I knew that one day there would be orange all over the rocks and it happened. The nerites do an amazing job keeping it in check. I'm surprised the tank isn't covered in eggs yet based on how much they've been eating.

About 2 weeks ago I picked up 4 more mangrove plants and about 25 hermit crabs. On Friday, my archerfish came in. They are quite small at this point -- only about 2.5 inches. I think I'm going to have to build a canopy sooner than later. They spook easy and are very athletic fish. Hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to build something to keep everyone in the tank.

The current stock is:

- 2 mono argentus
- 1 dragon goby
- 3 archerfish
- 3 bumble bee gobies in the sump
- 27 hermit crabs split between the dt and sump
- 10 nerites split between the dt and sump

I'll get pictures up at some point.


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Update time!

So I had 3 Archerfish. Now I have two  I noticed that if I went into my office at night the fish would get spooked and start jumping around. Archerfish are definitely jumpy and athletic. I should have done something right away. Unfortunately, I didn't. About a week ago, one jumped out during the day while I was out. I now have a makeshift lid keeping them in. 

I definitely want to keep it a trio. Has anyone seen a lfs with Archerfish recently?

This tank is awesome. The monos are getting bigger. The mangroves are growing, but not as fast as I'd like. In the fall I'm going to start dosing with magnesium to see if I can boost them a bit. 

I don't know if this is a coincidence or not. Earlier today I was a bit busy and missed my usual feeding time. I was sitting at my desk working and I started getting wet. I turned around and saw one of the archerfish looking right at me and shooting. I think it was hungry and was trying to remind me to feed them.

Pictures soon. I hope.


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

Kurtisat Bosleys in poco can special order the archer fish for you


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## Master wilkins (Dec 10, 2012)

Let's see and update!


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Not much to update right now.. I took the summer off on progress. Hopefully this weekend I'll start building the new canopy.


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## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Lets see some pictures


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## mrbob (Aug 9, 2012)

I agree!! Pics please


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## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

Time for an update!









That picture is worth 1000 words. Admire the brackish nerite snail in the background and the coralline algae in the front.

I believe it's coralline algae.. at least I hope that's what it is. There is some purple and some green in there. I'm not sure how it got in though. I've heard you've pretty much got to transfer it in from somewhere else. Can coralline algae remain dormant on dry rock? Maybe it came in off of some hermit shells?

I'm not exactly sure when it started growing.. sometime around mid september. I started working on the canopy (no real progress, just some cut oak plywood sitting in my garage). Around that time two things changed:

- I have a 48" BeamsWork LED that I got off of Charles. It had been sitting in a box, but I just happened to stand up on the back of the tank and I've been turning it on/off during the day.
- I slowly raised the sg from 1.010 to 1.014.. I may go a bit higher, like to 1.015 or 1.016.

I happened to walk into Mr Pets about 3 weeks ago and saw something swimming around one of their brackish tanks: another archer fish. I suspect this is one of the ones I ordered, but was told they couldn't get. The story goes that there were two, but this one dominated the other one to death. (side note, there's also some sort of loach in that brackish tank that's survived for probably 3 months that got dumped in. I guess someone thought it was a bbg). I picked it up on site. It's a different species from the others. I think it might be a chatareus and not a jax like the other two. It's 'smokier' and has a dark black section around it's tailfin. From what I've read, it could also be a micro. I hope not, since it's in high end brackish water now.

I was a bit worried dropping it into the tank, but it was 'accepted into the pack' with minimal fighting.

I couldn't get a decent pic with my iphone, so here's a video:






Last weekend I got some Caulerpa Prolifera from Claudia. Since I've dropped it in the tank, a small portion of it melted away, but it seems to be doing fine. One of the tank members seems to be moving it around throughout the day. There are two 'pieces' and every once and a while I'll pop into my office and it will be in a different spot. I think it might be the monos playing around. I've heard dragon gobies can re-arrange their tanks to their liking, so I wouldn't put it past it either.

Current inhabitants of the tank:

- 3 archerfish
- 2 monos
- a dragon goby
- at least 2 bumble bee gobies. Probably 3. I moved two to the display tank and I see at least one every now and then. There's lots of rock to hide under and big predators above.
- a bunch of nerite snails
- some mangroves
- some Caulerpa
- does coralline algae count? 

Not all has been perfect though. I lost 2 mangroves due to 'cooking' by the LED. They shouldn't have been so close. Whoops.

I also haven't seen a hermit for a long time. Either they died due to the low sg (was 1.010) or were lunch for the monos and archers. I may try again with some more now that the sg is higher.

I've also been thinking about putting a colony of opae'ula in the sump as feeders/cleaners. I figure the environment is right and there's almost no chance they will over run the display tank.


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