# Persistently cloudy water



## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

I've got a temporary 150g set up to house the monster fish displaced from the 180g after the Great Flood. I'd been having issues with very cloudy water, even though I was running 2 FX5's that were getting cleaned regularly. I did HUGE water changes, even tried swapping in an Eheim canister filter to see if that helped. No dice.

I JUST broke down the entire 150g tank, scrubbed out the filter, wiped out the tank completely with vinegar, rinsed and reassembled with one clean FX5, bare bottom, and scrubbed terracotta clay tiles for the catfish to hide in. Lovely clear water for 24 hours, and now it's starting to haze up AGAIN.

I'm OK with handling re-cycling the system, that's not what I'm worried about. What annoys me is the fact that even with totally cycled filters and big water changes the hazing persists even when the tank is cycled. It's not green algae, it's brownish haze. Water parameters are fine, it's not in any direct (or indirect) sunlight.

Are my fish just privacy fanatics? Are there aquatic dust bunnies breeding in there? WHAT in the hell is going on, and how do I stop it before they disappear into the haze?

I'm thinking my next step will involve a UV sterilizer. Would a 9watt be big enough, or do I need a larger one? Should I try adding an HOB filter? None of my other tanks have this issue, and these fish will be moving to the 300g tank soon...I REALLY want to keep the water in that tank looking clean and clear!

Stock includes:

2 oscars (about 8" each)
1 sailfin pim catfish (approximately 16")
1 sailfin pleco (approximately 11")
5 rotkeil severums (4")
1 port cichlid (4")
1 yellow jacket cichlid (freddie) (7")
7 featherfin catfish (6")
1 juvenile female flowerhorn (3")


Yes, I know that's a lot of fish. They're going to an 8'x2' 300g tank and they get 50% weekly water changes in the current one.


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## dino (Aug 29, 2011)

may i ask are you running carbon? i know i never did with fx5s but i think it would be a good first step before getting the u.v.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

Yup. I've tried carbon, Purigen etc. No change.

I'm thinking it may be a diatom bloom of some kind...


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Sounds like a bacterial bloom of some sort. Lots of fish in there and perhaps your current bio can't keep up (for now) leaving plenty of excess nutrients around for bacteria to consume. 

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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Please try this - From my own experience, I can almost guarantee it will work:

- Get a 250 ml jar of Seachem Purigen (much better than carbon imo) & fill 2 suitably-sized DOUBLED bags with enough Purigen to give you about a 1/2 thickness when laid flat, & place them in your filters. Re-charge them about every 3 weeks, when they get medium-brownish, but not black, so they don't lose effectiveness.
- Also use double-layered filter floss (polyester quilt batting with no chemicals) in your filters, replaced with new about every 2 weeks.
Alternate these replacements so you're not losing much bio-filtration level. 
- Place fine mesh pre-filters on your filter intakes - and rinse them well every 2 or 3 days (just takes a couple of minutes) so that your water flow doesn't slow up in the filters.
- The use of a UV sterilizer while also help if you plan on getting one - enough wattage for your tank size.

Some of your fish stock can be a bit messy, but I'd be very surprised if you don't see a huge difference even within a few days.

I've used this method in my discus tanks for years, and my water is crystal clear 100% of the time.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

Paul how often do you find youself cleaning out your canister filters doing the above routine?


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## Adz1 (Apr 21, 2010)

X2 what discuspaul said.

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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I think it is a bacteria bloom. You might clean out your filter too often for a newly re-assemble tank. Try cut down the feeding in 50%. I found that in a bare bottom tank, bacteria bloom happens more often. Even just a thin layer of gravel or sand, the problem will appear sometimes but will go away quickly.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

Immus21 said:


> Paul how often do you find youself cleaning out your canister filters doing the above routine?


I don't use canisters in discus tanks, Immus, just AC 110 HOB's for a variety of reasons.
Besides what I said about the Purigen recharging and the filter floss replacements, I rinse the sponges and bio-balls, and whatever else I might use, every 2 or 3 weeks.
Frankly, IF I used canisters (but I wouldn't do that in a discus tank, by choice) I would do the same with the media that was used in the canisters, even though that would be a bit of a pita. And that's one of the reasons I use HOB's.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

charles said:


> I think it is a bacteria bloom. You might clean out your filter too often for a newly re-assemble tank. Try cut down the feeding in 50%. I found that in a bare bottom tank, bacteria bloom happens more often. Even just a thin layer of gravel or sand, the problem will appear sometimes but will go away quickly.


I agree with what you're saying, Charles, but as I understand it, Elle's problem seems to be quite persistent and hasn't reduced/declined in some time.


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## Immus21 (Jun 14, 2010)

discuspaul said:


> I don't use canisters in discus tanks, Immus, just AC 110 HOB's for a variety of reasons.
> Besides what I said about the Purigen recharging and the filter floss replacements, I rinse the sponges and bio-balls, and whatever else I might use, every 2 or 3 weeks.
> Frankly, IF I used canisters (but I wouldn't do that in a discus tank, by choice) I would do the same with the media that was used in the canisters, even though that would be a bit of a pita. And that's one of the reasons I use HOB's.


I misunderstood your first post thanks for clarifying.


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

I do agree with Charles. I've had my 125 gallon running for about 3 months now and am experiencing the same cloudiness.Ive got an FX 5 with 2 big bags of purigen and 2 different polishing pads(similar to filter floss)and clean my filter once a week.I think I'm going to try what Charles is suggesting.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

I'll try Pauls' and Charles' suggestions. I'm going to add polishing pads/purigen and possibly also add the other FX5 on to the tank..either that or fire up the giant Eheim 2260 canister and slap it on along with the first FX5. Take THAT, bacterial bloom!

I'd cut down significantly on the feeding (to the point that the poor fish begged at the side of the tank every time they saw me), but it didn't seem to make a difference. This is happening in a new tank that's been totally cleaned out, so food shouldn't be the cause, or at least not this fast. If it matters, the old 180g had a thin sand substrate, and this is bare bottom, and the problem was the same.

What wattage of UV sterilizer would be recommended for this tank (and for the 300g)? I have a 9W Coralife and was going to throw it on the tank just because it's already here...


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

Also, do you think a prefilter on the FX5 intake might help? Does Hagen make one, or is there a good place to get the black sponge material?


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## Vman (Jan 20, 2011)

On the FX5,make sure you put the purigen and polishing pads in the bottom tray.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Elle said:


> Also, do you think a prefilter on the FX5 intake might help? Does Hagen make one, or is there a good place to get the black sponge material?


The prefilter will help keep the Fx5 cleaner but thats about it. Not a bad idea. I tried it before and it reduced the amount of crap that was inside the canister.

As Charles had mentioned I believe your bio just needs to catch up. With a newly clean tank you've basically killed off all the bio with the exception of your filters. Probably just got to wait until it achieves balance again.

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## neoh (Apr 22, 2010)

UV should fix that problem. 9W would work, it would just take longer.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

discuspaul said:


> I agree with what you're saying, Charles, but as I understand it, Elle's problem seems to be quite persistent and hasn't reduced/declined in some time.


It could just be too much nutrients in the tank. I say slow down the feeding and only feed 25%-50%, the bacteria bloom should disappear in a week or two.

IMO, not using filter bio-media is good for discus tank as most people do a lot of water changes. But for Elle case, I would strongly advise using lots of bio-media. Also, using a pre-filter on the intake is useless. That is what the filter foss pre-filter is for inside your filter. Those you can clean with your sink and tank water rinse your bio-media.

Elle, have you done a nitrate test to see what period your nitrate goes up. I always recommend this to my customer.
After a water change for at least 2 hours, do a nitrate test. Check the level.
Every 2 days, do another nitrate test to check the level.
My comfort zone is 15ppm. 
Check every 2 days to see when the nitrate will reach 15ppm in my case, that is how long I can normally go without a water change.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

charles said:


> It could just be too much nutrients in the tank. I say slow down the feeding and only feed 25%-50%, the bacteria bloom should disappear in a week or two.
> 
> IMO, not using filter bio-media is good for discus tank as most people do a lot of water changes. But for Elle case, I would strongly advise using lots of bio-media. Also, using a pre-filter on the intake is useless. That is what the filter foss pre-filter is for inside your filter. Those you can clean with your sink and tank water rinse your bio-media.
> 
> ...


Don't wish to disagree, but using a pre-filter sponge on the intake is not at all useless when combined with filter floss in the filter itself..
The more fine mechanical filtration material you use to pick up, unseen to the eye, or very fine, particles in the water, the better.
What the fine mesh pre-filters don't fully get, the filter floss will. And the proof of that, to me, is that my pre-filters get fully covered in greyish material in a day or two - and even though I rinse them well frequently & replace them immediately, after a week or so, or even a few days, the filter floss in the filter itself is darkish brown and is nearing replacement.
That's good enough evidence for me that both pieces of fine filtration are doing a job.

I use Fluval Edge pre-filters, usually available @ PetSmart stores, inexpensively. They fit all the AC HOB's except perhaps the smallest one, and will also fit well on most intake pipes of many of the canisters.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I should not say useless. It does provide some prefiltering. Though because of its size and area of prefiltering, it clucks up much faster n therefore, decrease the usefulness of the flow rate in a much shorter time.


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## Elle (Oct 25, 2010)

FWIW, I use prefilters on all my other tanks and it does help decrease the gunk accumulation factor in the canisters and HOB filters, especially in planted tanks. I clean the prefilters weekly or more often if the flow is down. But it's more about stretching out the cleaning time on the filters or keeping sand out of the intakes.


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## discuspaul (Jul 2, 2010)

charles said:


> I should not say useless. It does provide some prefiltering. Though because of its size and area of prefiltering, it clucks up much faster n therefore, decrease the usefulness of the flow rate in a much shorter time.


That's quite true - and that's why it's necessary to rinse it out well every 2 or 3 days - to maintain its efficacy and prevent filter flow slow-up.


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

I guess I am lazy that way 

After maintaining many tanks both mine and customers, I tried to do less


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