# 75-P planted tank



## trout

Well after looking at an empty 75P sitting on my kitchen table for nearly 4 months, I finally have it planted and on a dry start. :bigsmile: Wasn't planning on doing a DSM but ran into an issue getting my CO2 tanks, it will probably work for the better anyways as Im pretty sure most of the plants were grown emmersed.

*Tank/Equipment Specs:*

-ADA 75P 75x45x45cm (38gal?)
-ADA substrate system (powersand, 5 elements, new Amazonia)
-Eheim 2217
-Cal Aqua Lily pipes
-10# Co2 tank 
-Dual stage matheson reg
-DIY Cree LED build w sunrise/set controller (light in pics is 24w T5HO)
-DIY stand
-hydor 200w inline heater
-Atomic diffuser
-Ryouh stone
-EI/dry macro/micros

*Flora:*

-Crypt Lucens
-C. Petchii
-C. Parva
-C. Nurii
-Downoi
-Ranalisma rostrata
-Tonina sp Manus
-Ludwigia Arcuata
-Rotala sp nanjenshan
-Hygro polysperma Ceylon
-Nesaea Crassicaulis

*Fauna:*

-none for a couple months 

Iphone pics for now:

blank canvas










powersand first










5 elements, forgot to take a pic before dumping amazonia










part way through planting, almost there










done planting! only have two leftover portions of plants, I couldn't cram any more in!










hardscape view, ideally the rocks should be about 2/3 height wise of the tank, but that requires much larger rock than what I used. doing DSM will allow me to tweak it if needed.










Thanks for looking, open to suggestions, all and any criticism welcome!

Trout


----------



## SeaHorse_Fanatic

Looks awesome. I've never done an aquascaping first before adding water. Looks very realistic.


----------



## trout

SeaHorse_Fanatic said:


> Looks awesome. I've never done an aquascaping first before adding water. Looks very realistic.


Thanks! The goal was to have it look as natural/realistic as possible. Everyone thats seen it in person so far (non aquarium folk) have said it really looks natural.

It's my first time doing a DSM so fingers are crossed . I will say though that its probably 500 times easier planting like this vs planting with water in it.


----------



## trout

Day 3 update since planting. Almost every plant is responding and perking up since initial planting except for one type of crypt  of course the best one too.

couple photos taken inside the tank, too much moisture on the glass for a outside full tank shot.

left side










right side


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I've not tried it, but some say certain Crypts are sensitive to the initial ammonia leaching from ADA. The DSM works great. I didn't that with my ADA cube with HC and got them rooted, was impatient and flooded it after 3 weeks and pumped tons of CO2 into it.

I really like your scape, and of course, am a big fan of the ADA tanks and setup. Can't wait to see how your DIY LED array will look like, as I got an AquaRay tile on mine. BTW, where did you get your Matheson reg? Off one of the CO2 builders like customCO2.com? Or did you build it yourself?


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> I've not tried it, but some say certain Crypts are sensitive to the initial ammonia leaching from ADA. The DSM works great. I didn't that with my ADA cube with HC and got them rooted, was impatient and flooded it after 3 weeks and pumped tons of CO2 into it.
> 
> I really like your scape, and of course, am a big fan of the ADA tanks and setup. Can't wait to see how your DIY LED array will look like, as I got an AquaRay tile on mine. BTW, where did you get your Matheson reg? Off one of the CO2 builders like customCO2.com? Or did you build it yourself?


Ya have been worried about the more sensitive plants (C. nurii, tonina) getting "burned" by the initial ammonia leaching Amazonia is known for. On the plus side, since the plants appear to be mostly cultivated emmersed, i think it'll be a little easier on them going DSM, once less thing to stress them.

Just got the LED's hung today, will get some pics later. I am a little disappointed with the spread however, have to hang a little higher and sacrifice some intensity. Got the matheson awhile back from a builder in the states. Excited to finally try it out....first time going pressurized 

Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Wow, DIY LED, ADA AS and tank, Matheson dual stage reg and....you're living the planted tank dream, which is doing it right the first time. Congrats on choosing to go that route instead of messing up several times by cheaping out and then doing it right finally, like most of us.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> Wow, DIY LED, ADA AS and tank, Matheson dual stage reg and....you're living the planted tank dream, which is doing it right the first time. Congrats on choosing to go that route instead of messing up several times by cheaping out and then doing it right finally, like most of us.


It really is my dream tank, well.....it was.....:bigsmile:

Been there, done that. Doing things right the first time in this hobby is a lesson I believe can only be learned the hard way. Not saying that's the only way to do things, just my 2 cents having put myself through frustration in the past, good learning curb though.

This build took over 4 months of planning, saving, ordering equipment, cursing UPS etc. Planning is key. I dont even want to think about total cost as its an obscure amount...and I will likely never tally it all up for my own mental benefit


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> This build took over 4 months of planning, saving, ordering equipment, cursing UPS etc. Planning is key. I dont even want to think about total cost as its an obscure amount...and I will likely never tally it all up for my own mental benefit


I hear you on that. I don't do the math on my tanks anymore as it's too painful.


----------



## trout

heres a pic of my LED rig just after I built it. consists of 12 cree xml's, dim 4 controller, two 12vdc fans, and a chunk of extruded aluminum as a heat sink. no additional drivers, all powered off the controller but is only capable of driving 3 xml's in series @ 500mA , well below the 3000mA they can handle.










LED build behind 24"/W T5HO with giessman midday.










white balanced to get a better view


----------



## tang daddy

Nice build and scape, looking toward to seeing the progression of this tank...


----------



## gouedi

+1 for the xml leds， by the way what driver and controller are you using， a diy pwm controller？


----------



## gsdelcourt

This is looking great and giving me a lot of very informative issues and solution I am looking forward to getting started in a little while as I am slowly getting the basics and planning on paper. Always looks great on paper LOL


----------



## Chronick

beautiful tank, where did you get the stone?


----------



## trout

tang daddy said:


> Nice build and scape, looking toward to seeing the progression of this tank...


thank you for the encouraging comment tang daddy!



gouedi said:


> +1 for the xml leds， by the way what driver and controller are you using， a diy pwm controller？


thanks! post #10 outlines the details of the light and has some pics as well. wish I could DIY the controller lol. no driver, although I have one capable of really pushing the xml's should I change the set-up.



gsdelcourt said:


> This is looking great and giving me a lot of very informative issues and solution I am looking forward to getting started in a little while as I am slowly getting the basics and planning on paper. Always looks great on paper LOL


thanks so much! a good plan and not rushing things is a really good way to design things and wrap your head around what your trying to accomplish IMHO. I too started with a paper plan/drawing....but that changed several times lol



Chronick said:


> beautiful tank, where did you get the stone?


thanks Chronick. got the Ryouh from Aqua. West a month or two back. I'll let you in on a little secret, I didn't pick or see the stones I got in person, took a little bit of a dice roll


----------



## trout

any suggestions on background color? I'd love to leave it clear, but the wall behind the tank wont jive so it's needs something. black and white being the two most obvious choices atm.

white poster board. pic is several days old, dont mind the leftover crypt upfront. still need to find it a home.










flat black poster board, this is also old pic from just after planting.


----------



## Tiwaz

First great job on the tank so far, second what about a light blue/sky colour?


----------



## trout

thanks Tiwaz! you read my mind. have been contemplating doing a DIY light blue water color (paint) on the white, something to mimic blue sky and clouds


----------



## Mykiss

Nice setup. So that's where all those plants you got from us went to...lol

Also, if you want more Ryuh stones, I've got a bunch in stock now and can take pictures of them for you to choose. 

Keep up the good work. I thought you were going to wait so that you can enter the VAHS contest?


----------



## trout

Mykiss said:


> Nice setup. So that's where all those plants you got from us went to...lol
> 
> Also, if you want more Ryuh stones, I've got a bunch in stock now and can take pictures of them for you to choose.
> 
> Keep up the good work. I thought you were going to wait so that you can enter the VAHS contest?


that would be them!  and thanks again Pat, couldn't be happier!

I might touch base with you on the Ryouh stones soon....will let you know. I imagine they go fast though!

I was really trying to hold off for the VAHS contest, but this project has been many months in the making and really means alot to finally have everything together, well almost....still needs water! Never know though...still interested and could maybe pull something else new off 

cheers!


----------



## trout

Couple updated pics from a few days ago. Not much to take photos of at this stage...I dont really notice the growth myself, it's kinda like watching grass grow. I now understand why people that have done this method say its boooorrrinnggg. I think once everything's rooted well and established, and i get my co2 tanks (the main problem), I will likely just flood it right away.










the stems in the back are crammed in very tightly and already filling in.










r. rostrata upfront is throwing runners like crazy


----------



## trout

2 week update. took some plant pics last night.










might not look like much, but this is the c. nurii that was trying to give me trouble and is now making a huge recovery 










r. rostrata runners and new leaves


----------



## jobber

Nice setup. The plants have certainly done some growing. when are you planning to do the flood?


----------



## trout

jobber604 said:


> Nice setup. The plants have certainly done some growing. when are you planning to do the flood?


Thanks! Hoping to have it flooded within a week from today.


----------



## CRS Fan

Looks really good Trout. I've never tried the dry-start method, myself.

Best regards,

Stuart


----------



## tony1928

I gotta hand it to you planted tank guys. I don't even like to mow my lawn at home. Great looking tank. Maybe when I retire, I can give it a shot.


----------



## trout

CRS Fan said:


> Looks really good Trout. I've never tried the dry-start method, myself.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart


Thanks so much Stuart! First time I've tried DSM, seems to be an ideal method for allowing things to take root and adapt. It's the flood that worries me though 



tony1928 said:


> I gotta hand it to you planted tank guys. I don't even like to mow my lawn at home. Great looking tank. Maybe when I retire, I can give it a shot.


Thanks tony! Give it a try!


----------



## JohnnyAppleSnail

Great looking set-up,looking forward to when it is full of Water and Fish. Very natural looking,looks as though You went outside cut out a chunk of Earth and plopped it in a Tank!


----------



## trout

JohnnyAppleSnail said:


> Great looking set-up,looking forward to when it is full of Water and Fish. Very natural looking,looks as though You went outside cut out a chunk of Earth and plopped it in a Tank!


Many thanks! I cant wait for the day I can put fish in, let alone fill it  You have perfectly described the look I was going for.....couldn't have said it better myself. cheers!


----------



## trout

still no water but a pic update none the less


----------



## Diztrbd1

looking good, when you gonna add water?


----------



## trout

Diztrbd1 said:


> looking good, when you gonna add water?


thanks! it would already be filled if my CO2 tank was filled/got another full tank. I have everything else other than this "magic gas" all those high tech planted tank folk use 

really though, I had hoped to fill it today, but if not in a few days, then hopefully next week.


----------



## trout

one month 4 days since planting. still no H20 due to lack of CO2 in my bottle, and really wanting to fill the tank though.......considering a massive DIY system to get it the tank by until my tank gets filled.


----------



## Tiwaz

The tank is looking great, what are you planning for livestock once its filled?


----------



## trout

Tiwaz said:


> The tank is looking great, what are you planning for livestock once its filled?


thanks Tiwaz! not fully decided on livestock yet. otos and amanos are a guarantee. have thought about the obvious for shoalers, rummys or cards but kinda want something different. open to any suggestions really!


----------



## Tiwaz

Galaxy Rasboras


----------



## trout

Tiwaz said:


> Galaxy Rasboras


definately an option, although I've kept them before (still do) in a school of 11, a little too skittish for my liking. have pondered what 40+ would look like in this tank though....

still they are one of my favourite fish, they remind me of little brook trout


----------



## DR1V3N

Trout kudos! Don't know how you held back the flood but it's paying off. You're coverage since day 1 has been great to watch. Can't wait to see the nature aquarium this becomes.

As for shoalers, the question is what couldn't you have in this awesome footprint? 

Galaxies could be skittish but probably not in the 40+ qty and with all those stem plants and not if they want to fight 39 others for food lol:lol:. Rummy red would pop against your greenery for sure. Have you considered 2 or 3 shoals? Top, mid, bot dwellers?

As for background coloring I see your dilemma. The white makes your rock shadows pop. The black will make the greenery explode. Particle board probably better in the long run for photography reasons, plus can you really commit to painting your tank? I'd be sketched out, it's an ADA after all lol.


----------



## trout

martialid10t said:


> Trout kudos! Don't know how you held back the flood but it's paying off. You're coverage since day 1 has been great to watch. Can't wait to see the nature aquarium this becomes.
> 
> As for shoalers, the question is what couldn't you have in this awesome footprint?
> 
> Galaxies could be skittish but probably not in the 40+ qty and with all those stem plants and not if they want to fight 39 others for food lol:lol:. Rummy red would pop against your greenery for sure. Have you considered 2 or 3 shoals? Top, mid, bot dwellers?
> 
> As for background coloring I see your dilemma. The white makes your rock shadows pop. The black will make the greenery explode. Particle board probably better in the long run for photography reasons, plus can you really commit to painting your tank? I'd be sketched out, it's an ADA after all lol.


Thanks for the kind words!

only reason i've managed to hold back so long is my empty CO2 bottle. I keep telling myself sure i could fill it with water now, but without cranking the CO2 when filled, im asking for trouble.

Figured for shoalers, an oto school for bottom, anything from tetras-danio etc...for my mid/top...maybe two species but one will likely keep it more simple/cohesive. that said my 13g already has galaxys and rummys...they mix well. i've got a list of small fish built up, all depends what i can get at the time i guess....

good eye r.e. the white working for the shadowing of the rocks, whereas the black works much better for the plants. still gotta try some very light blue/white, but the poster board i have is too short. ya, no paint for this guy!

cheers


----------



## 2wheelsx2

What's the holdup with getting the CO2? Tough to get a fill in Ganges?


----------



## trout

ya not easy. paintball tanks are no problem, bigger tanks not so much. that and the one i have needs to be hydrotested. also some unforeseen expenses have been holding the whole program up


----------



## trout

still no water, and it's got to happen soon, bit of mold/fungus popping up. can any vancouver islanders recommend a place to get a CO2 fill, hyrdrotest my current tank and purchase/lease another CO2 tank from? i knew of one in victoria but cant remember the name....

comparison shot since initial planting


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It's looking great. Definitely time to flood it unless you want to to a riparium.  To control the mold/fungus use a Excel/water mixture and mist it. 1:20 should do it.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> It's looking great. Definitely time to flood it unless you want to to a riparium.  To control the mold/fungus use a Excel/water mixture and mist it. 1:20 should do it.


thanks 2wheels! almost considering never flooding cause it might never happen  shoulda gone with a paintball rig for CO2......which stinks considering I have two regs ready to go...one still sealed in the bag from GLA

Ive read about the diluted excel in the spray bottle method but have yet to try it, I dont want any near my BB in my substrate. I'm probably being over cautious but excel is nasty stuff IMO, stopped using it about a year ago. might have to do it anyways to keep the fungus off the plants, almost losing interest tbh


----------



## DR1V3N

You're almost there though! It's looking amazing with all that coverage since day 1. Hope a CO2 refill doesn't derail you, that's the easy part IMO compared to all the planning and resources it took to put your project together.


----------



## trout

martialid10t said:


> You're almost there though! It's looking amazing with all that coverage since day 1. Hope a CO2 refill doesn't derail you, that's the easy part IMO compared to all the planning and resources it took to put your project together.


Thanks for the encouragement!

Things went a little south since I last posted, lost a bunch of tonina to the fungus, was semi forced to try the excel mist trick, kind of hindered the fungus as well as a couple plants.  kept my head up though. Trimmed out a forest of nesaea that was over grown and blocking light and airflow which caused the fungus in the first place.

Been working hard to source co2, have a local option for massive bottle, sourced a place off island to fill my current tanks, and somehow stumbled on a half full (being optimistic) 10-20# tank today! Need to throw a reg on it to see how full it actually is. There is slight chance this tank will be wet later this evening!!!! Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh!


----------



## Nicklfire

Love the project so far, love the stand too, did you make that? what it cost you to build


----------



## trout

many thanks! Yup complete DIY stand....first time crafting something in a while, while not perfect, it worked out very well. all the materials from wood, hinges, laminate, glue little bits etc....was around $315. got too much plywood though, but that worked out better as i built a stand for my 13g from the same stuff. ended up buying a good laminate router bit and fostner bit as well, but those dont count as they are additions to the tool box.


----------



## DR1V3N

OMG dude! Wooo! But why did you have to get a seperate bottle ? Whatever works I guess as long as you can finally drown this guy. Just to give you the heads up if you're ever on the Mainland there's a place in Richmond that's really easy to find called DBC Marine. Hydrotest + fill on a 20# steel is 40 bones even cash, mention cash and go straight to the service dock and not the office. If you take it early enough in the morning they can do it in a hurry too. Best price I've found.



trout said:


> Thanks for the encouragement!
> 
> Things went a little south since I last posted, lost a bunch of tonina to the fungus, was semi forced to try the excel mist trick, kind of hindered the fungus as well as a couple plants.  kept my head up though. Trimmed out a forest of nesaea that was over grown and blocking light and airflow which caused the fungus in the first place.
> 
> Been working hard to source co2, have a local option for massive bottle, sourced a place off island to fill my current tanks, and somehow stumbled on a half full (being optimistic) 10-20# tank today! Need to throw a reg on it to see how full it actually is. There is slight chance this tank will be wet later this evening!!!! Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh!


----------



## trout

need at least two bottles, preferably 3 as i will be using CO2 on another tank as well. thanks for the tip on the refill place! will keep that in mind if i'm over there.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> need at least two bottles, preferably 3 as i will be using CO2 on another tank as well. thanks for the tip on the refill place! will keep that in mind if i'm over there.


Why not get a manifold from Pat and split one bottle for both tanks (unless they are in different rooms) and then your second will be your spare.


----------



## trout

got the co2 hooked up and running in a bucket. not sure how much CO2 exactly is in the tank, so i may hold off on the flood. it's showing pretty much at, or just over 800 psi. running it at 35psi on the low at 3-4 bps into am atomic diffuser. 

when a tank starts to go empty, how quick will it register being on a decline? will it drop quickly?


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> Why not get a manifold from Pat and split one bottle for both tanks (unless they are in different rooms) and then your second will be your spare.


different locations, but i had thought about it. plumbing co2 lines off a giant bottle to some face plates throughout the house would be my ultimate goal haha


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> got the co2 hooked up and running in a bucket. not sure how much CO2 exactly is in the tank, so i may hold off on the flood. it's showing pretty much at, or just over 800 psi. running it at 35psi on the low at 3-4 bps into am atomic diffuser.
> 
> when a tank starts to go empty, how quick will it register being on a decline? will it drop quickly?


I don't think it would matter much since you have no fauna right now if your CO2 is a bit on the high side.

As soon as it drops below 800 (without a severe temperature change) then the tank is all gas, which means you should start thinking about changing it. Depending on usage, it could be 2 days or 2 weeks before it runs empty.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> different locations, but i had thought about it. plumbing co2 lines off a giant bottle to some face plates throughout the house would be my ultimate goal haha


If you get the proper tubing, there's no reason why not. The only concern is that since gas is compressible, the longer the line, the longer the delay before the gas starts to come into the tank.


----------



## macframalama

buck tooth tetra's and lots of them, there awesome , beautiful tank btw


trout said:


> thanks Tiwaz! not fully decided on livestock yet. otos and amanos are a guarantee. have thought about the obvious for shoalers, rummys or cards but kinda want something different. open to any suggestions really!


----------



## trout

thanks! never heard of those and will look into them, they're interesting looking after a quick search. seem like they could get a bit big for this tank and shrimp


macframalama said:


> buck tooth tetra's and lots of them, there awesome , beautiful tank btw


tank is flooded! pics to follow shortly....


----------



## trout




----------



## 2wheelsx2

It's looking good. Glad you finally got it flooded.


----------



## Foxtail

That looks sick... It looks way better flooded.

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## trout

thanks 2wheels! feels good to finally drown it


2wheelsx2 said:


> It's looking good. Glad you finally got it flooded.


thanks foxtail, i agree completely changed the look, and for the better


Foxtail said:


> That looks sick... It looks way better flooded.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## trout




----------



## monkE

beautiful!


----------



## trout

Many thanks!



monkE said:


> beautiful!


----------



## djamm

Your dry start sure makes everything look lush! Looking very good!


----------



## trout

thanks djamm! very happy with the results of the dry start so far, minus a bit of loss to fungus/mold. no melting since flooding thus far but it may be too soon to make that call and say its good. if anything, all plants looks better, even some cyrpt nurii is making some obvious growth improvements!?!



djamm said:


> Your dry start sure makes everything look lush! Looking very good!


a pic from last night, co2 turned off prior. today it is much clearer than this pic. reds already showing more so on some stems as well which is interesting. may need to start dosing sooner than expected.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

After this long a dry start, I would definitely start dosing.


----------



## Nicklfire

certainly some of the most lush and healthy plants i've seen


----------



## sarcastickitten

this tank look amazing!! so natural and green!! love it!


----------



## trout

Ive been thinking so as well, thanks for the confirmation. i would imagine a fair chunk of nutrients in the AS has been consumed during the 2 month long DSM. what would you recommend? start with 1/2 dose and ramp it up over the course of a week? pretty much winged the whole emmersed setup and subsequent flood so far. still waiting to see something melt....


2wheelsx2 said:


> After this long a dry start, I would definitely start dosing.


thanks so much nicklfire! that really means alot! cant say enough about the quality of what i started with from the tissue culture plants i ordered. i have Pat to thank for that as well.


Nicklfire said:


> certainly some of the most lush and healthy plants i've seen


thank-you kindly! cant wait to liven it up with some fauna! 


sarcastickitten said:


> this tank look amazing!! so natural and green!! love it!


----------



## The Guy

*Very well done*

Fantastic job you've done there, looks beautiful!!


----------



## Fish rookie

This is awesome. I also like the fact that it is not just another iwagumi with some rocks covered by glosso or hc. Yours have a very nice style and the many plants add a lot of depth and personality to the scape imo. Congrats on an awesome tank.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> Ive been thinking so as well, thanks for the confirmation. i would imagine a fair chunk of nutrients in the AS has been consumed during the 2 month long DSM. what would you recommend? start with 1/2 dose and ramp it up over the course of a week? pretty much winged the whole emmersed setup and subsequent flood so far. still waiting to see something melt....


Not that much, but the fast start ammonia that leaches out is all gone. I would actually dose EI and do big water changes 2x a week for a few weeks and check the plant growth. I never had much melting when I flooded my cube. Just a few leaves of the HC.


----------



## blurry

Thats such a nice ADA tank, nice mountains


----------



## Tiwaz

It looks amazing flooded, happy to see you stuck with it.


----------



## DR1V3N

Looks awesome Trout! The wait paid off big time. The plants look like they're adjusting really well! You using brand new ADA?


----------



## trout

The Guy said:


> Fantastic job you've done there, looks beautiful!!


thanks The Guy!



Fish rookie said:


> This is awesome. I also like the fact that it is not just another iwagumi with some rocks covered by glosso or hc. Yours have a very nice style and the many plants add a lot of depth and personality to the scape imo. Congrats on an awesome tank.


thanks! you see it well....tried to do something a little outside the box.



2wheelsx2 said:


> Not that much, but the fast start ammonia that leaches out is all gone. I would actually dose EI and do big water changes 2x a week for a few weeks and check the plant growth. I never had much melting when I flooded my cube. Just a few leaves of the HC.


i figured the majority of ammonia would be toast. and any left would actually be beneficial to establish the filter etc. going to start EI on saturday likely, have yet to do a WC and that will happen before i begin dosing. after that, i like your idea of 2x week...sounds about right to what i was thinking as the main reason for daily WC's with new AS is mostly to remove the initial ammonia leaching. still getting great results and no melting, only noticeable growth, so im def getting a bit lucky

not to ramble on, but as far as establishing BB in my filter, you think there's enough left form the AS? you think i should run a normal fishless cycle at this point, or let it go as is? its been tough to get acuate ammo readings cause the plants are likely eating it all (only done one, and my API kit is old)



blurry said:


> Thats such a nice ADA tank, nice mountains


thank you kindly!



Tiwaz said:


> It looks amazing flooded, happy to see you stuck with it.


thanks Tiwaz! there were indeed ups and downs, but it really worked out in the end!



DR1V3N said:


> Looks awesome Trout! The wait paid off big time. The plants look like they're adjusting really well! You using brand new ADA?


thanks! it was a long time, but i didnt really mind, because i didn't have a choice! :bigsmile: plant growth is amazing since flooding. there will eventually be a period where alot of existing emmersed growth will die off...but im too really amazed at the growth rate just since flooding!

yup all new. glass and substrate system that is....rocks too i guess...

***********

i will throw up a new pic shortly when i have better lighting. i also have a couple pics of the filing if anyone is interested. also any other fauna ideas are more than welcome, as it will happen soon :bigsmile:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> I figured the majority of ammonia would be toast. and any left would actually be beneficial to establish the filter etc. going to start EI on saturday likely, have yet to do a WC and that will happen before i begin dosing. after that, i like your idea of 2x week...sounds about right to what i was thinking as the main reason for daily WC's with new AS is mostly to remove the initial ammonia leaching. still getting great results and no melting, only noticeable growth, so im def getting a bit lucky
> 
> not to ramble on, but as far as establishing BB in my filter, you think there's enough left form the AS? you think i should run a normal fishless cycle at this point, or let it go as is? its been tough to get acuate ammo readings cause the plants are likely eating it all (only done one, and my API kit is old)


The majority of the ammonia not toast, but rather, the majority of the fast release ammonia is gone. I believe that ADA still releases small amounts of ammonia for quite a while. Your BB will still be there. Planted tanks, when planted in abundance, do not require a fishless cycle. The plants uptake all the ammonia anyway, so throwing ammonia in will just generate nitrate immediately. It might be an interesting experiment for you, but I guarantee you that's what will happen. It's better to just go ahead and put in a light fish load and slowly increase it. Just don't put in anything delicate in the beginning, like CRS. A couple of otos, maybe a few amano shrimp and some small rasboras and tetras would be great. What do you ultimately plan to stock this with?


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> The majority of the ammonia not toast, but rather, the majority of the fast release ammonia is gone. I believe that ADA still releases small amounts of ammonia for quite a while. Your BB will still be there. Planted tanks, when planted in abundance, do not require a fishless cycle. The plants uptake all the ammonia anyway, so throwing ammonia in will just generate nitrate immediately. It might be an interesting experiment for you, but I guarantee you that's what will happen. It's better to just go ahead and put in a light fish load and slowly increase it. Just don't put in anything delicate in the beginning, like CRS. A couple of otos, maybe a few amano shrimp and some small rasboras and tetras would be great. What do you ultimately plan to stock this with?


Ah yes I must have worded my post a little funny. I was referring to the intial major ammonia release (fast release) being used up. Also was trying to inquire about sufficient ammo realease left to establish bb in the filter. It's brand new, no established media....but your right and it makes sense, adding more will only increase nitrites as the plants will likely chew it all up.

I may add some hardier fish this weekend to help get the ball rolling. Amanos first, then Otos followed by a shoal. Still undecided on final shoal stocking. Blue cochu tetras are really catching my eye in pics. very likely no CRS/CBS as I dislike feeding my fish with very pricey shrimplets....although this would make for an interesting cardina tank

Thanks alot for your very helpful replys 2wheels!


----------



## trout

1 week since filling. growth is a little surprising. the foreground is going to get levelled during todays WC. all the new growth on it is the submersed form. i did a partial dose yesterday just to be sure my n03 levels are not too low.

heres a pic from this morning, looks hazy due to co2 mist.










and some pics of the filling process. this worked so well i was laughing, so thought i'd share


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That's great. The growth rate is expected with CO2. That's why so many use it, and so many loathe it.  High light + CO2 = lots of pruning. 

That filling method is great. Oliver Knott has a great video on Youtube using newspaper and plastic for his scapes. I just use a big dish.


----------



## trout

little update. some fauna was slowly added over the weekend. first WC and trimming also took place. still need to trim and shape the stems. that will prob happen sometime this week.

pic from friday night pre trim










and a couple from last night. completely mowed the foreground down to the substrate.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

That looks great. Now your foreground will grow in denser and more evenly. Maybe you want to try to group your red stems a bit tighter together before you shape them. It'll make it look neater and more organized.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> That looks great. Now your foreground will grow in denser and more evenly. Maybe you want to try to group your red stems a bit tighter together before you shape them. It'll make it look neater and more organized.


Thanks! the foreground needs to now grow its proper submersed form and stay short, or it getting the boot! getting the feeling it will get too tall without more light.

great tip of the stems, oddly i planted everything in groups, but a huge chunk of rotala grew right in the middle of the l. arcuata. that and i tossed in some nesae in random spots on the left. bad idea. i've become a plant hoarder.....its not good


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> Thanks! the foreground needs to now grow its proper submersed form and stay short, or it getting the boot! getting the feeling it will get too tall without more light.
> 
> great tip of the stems, oddly i planted everything in groups, but a huge chunk of rotala grew right in the middle of the l. arcuata. that and i tossed in some nesae in random spots on the left. bad idea. i've become a plant hoarder.....its not good


I don't think you need any more light. In my ADA cube is a 12w AquaRay tile and my S. repens barely even grows (it's in the back and shorter than I had planned, behind the Erios) and the foreground HC is super compact and small leaved. But it wasn't always this way. The HC grew up quite a bit when I first flooded it and dialed in the CO2. I think as it transitions and you prune right down to the base several times, it'll grow denser and more compact.

I think you're also going to want to mow that stuff down regularly to keep that beautiful hardscape exposed. Don't make my mistake where I let my Fissidens bury my expensive petrified wood.


----------



## trout

anyone have any tips on trimming out the background stems first time? rotala and hygro have hit the surface! gotta thank pressurized co2, Aquasoil, and EI dosing for that. growth is unlike anything i've experienced...

pretty sure i want to level them below the viewable hardscape line, but curious in others input.

heres some fish pics. all the rummys were transfered from my 13g....zero losses, even though one jumped out of the 13g while trying to be netted and fell almost 4ft to the floor.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I don't think there's any one way of trimming stems. Trimming below the hardscape will ensure you get the nice new growth that's 100% algae free showing above the hardscape and make them grow bushier there. Will also give the plants that have been shade a chance to get a bit more light.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> I don't think there's any one way of trimming stems. Trimming below the hardscape will ensure you get the nice new growth that's 100% algae free showing above the hardscape and make them grow bushier there. Will also give the plants that have been shade a chance to get a bit more light.


Agreed, def. no one way carved in stone. I ended up doing a two step process (well three I guess) where I only took a few stems down to see how they'd react and get the idea of the general shape I was after. Waited a week and took them down to where I figured should work, didnt go below the hardscape though, that may still happen as I see how different species react.










EDIT: WOW! just noticed how well the foreground has grown back in after comparing this pic to the one a few above right after trimming it.....I dont notice the growth on a day to day basis it seems.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

It's looking great. Are you going to keep it mostly green? If not, some purplish red highlights like A. reineckii or Ammania gracilis would be very nice.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> It's looking great. Are you going to keep it mostly green? If not, some purplish red highlights like A. reineckii or Ammania gracilis would be very nice.


Thanks!

The hygro, l. arcuata and nesea were "supposed" to be my red highlights......but its really looking more green than it should at the moment. Most of the recent trimmings of l. arcuata and nesea were fairly red, not overly bold though, seems the undergrowth is pretty green. Things also starting going more green when I raised my light about 6". Starting to wonder if the LED build is possibly lacking some spectrum, both trials of nesea and arcuata in my 13g are red under midday 24w T5HO. Got some reineckii cuttings I could try, a tad bold for my taste though

my c. nurri is bouncing back as well....not too sure how colourful that is though


----------



## trout

updated pic since most recent stem trimming


----------



## trout

some shots from last night. my hardscape has pretty much disappeared










may have started a downoi farm by mistake 










patch of c. nurri


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The downoi growth is spectacular. Mine is growing well, but not as nearly the rate yours is. My HC and Erios are the ones that are out of control.


----------



## trout

updated shot from a few days ago. things look terrible....massive brown diatom outbreak. only one oto doing the leg work, need some more. also have a theory regarding the addition of "pest snails" ie ramshorn, trumpets, bladders etc. Not that I think there really pests, just ugly on the glass.

Any trimmings that were covered in brown diatoms went into my 13g snail infested tank. 24 hours later, not a drop of diatoms to be seen. Every spec gone.

Would it be crazy to purposely put some in here to help get the nooks and crannys an oto cant get?










100th POST!!!!


----------



## CRS Fan

trout said:


> ......also have a theory regarding the addition of "pest snails" ie ramshorn, trumpets, bladders etc. Not that I think there really pests, just ugly on the glass.
> 
> Would it be crazy to purposely put some in here to help get the nooks and crannys an oto cant get?


The pond and ramshorn snails should be fine (Malaysian Trumpets are livebearing and have much harder shells). Snails only reproduce under control when a tank is overfed. Your worst case scenario would be to add a few Assassin snails if you feel the ramshorn and/or pond snail get out of control. BTW, very nice scape.

Best Regards,

Stuart


----------



## trout

CRS Fan said:


> The pond and ramshorn snails should be fine (Malaysian Trumpets are livebearing and have much harder shells). Snails only reproduce under control when a tank is overfed. Your worst case scenario would be to add a few Assassin snails if you feel the ramshorn and/or pond snail get out of control. BTW, very nice scape.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Stuart


Thats just the thing, once I put them in there, I'll never get them all out. I had gone this far with the intention of never having any in the tank at all, but it seems they might actually serve a purpose.

Thanks for the kind comment Stuart!

Cheers


----------



## Fish n Chips

Your substrate looks pretty much level front to back from your pics, so Malaysian Trumpets would actually be pretty great in that they would hide in the substrate when the lights are on, out of sight, and clean everything in the tank at night. They'd also aerate the substrate for you. If they didn't flatten out slopes I'd put them in all my tanks!


----------



## trout

Fish n Chips said:


> Your substrate looks pretty much level front to back from your pics, so Malaysian Trumpets would actually be pretty great in that they would hide in the substrate when the lights are on, out of sight, and clean everything in the tank at night. They'd also aerate the substrate for you. If they didn't flatten out slopes I'd put them in all my tanks!


Great point, trumpets and slopes do not mix well wig lighter substrates.

Hard to see, but its sloped from about 1.5" in the front to over 5" of substrate in the back. Would be very hesitant of adding trumpets for that reason....so they're out.

Really dislike the appearance of bladder snails, something about their slimy looking tail dragging behind them. So I think I might cave and add some ramshorns, or hold off for a few more days. Tanks looks much better after weekly maintinance that was a week late.....


----------



## trout

a pic after some clean up and trimming, last pic things were in pretty rough shape.

still no snails added, just decided to hopefully get a few more otos in the next week....and scrap the snail idea.










i call it "citrus 7UP" lol


----------



## trout

so over the course of the last week i had noticed the lemon tetras, two in particular, really coloring up. i had switched up what i was feeding so i thought that was part of the cause. on a close inspection today, i can see there are two alpha males battling over a receptive female. it is really quite the site to see.....fairly sure i watched the nicest colored male and the female "do the dance"

very cool too watch the two males, fins totally erect and showing off to the female. almost a bit worried for the female, she almost looks tired form all the action and chasing. the two males are also giving each other the gears.

i doubt i'll ever get any fry, but having never had any fish breed for me i thought i would share my excitement and hope for the best.


----------



## Foxtail

With all the vegetation in there you may actually get some fry... 

Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 2wheelsx2

You'll likely get fry, but the survival rate will be low, which is still pretty cool. I had one survive in my 125 gallon even with 6 Red Hump Geos and 70 or so adult lemon tetras in the tank.


----------



## trout

Foxtail said:


> With all the vegetation in there you may actually get some fry...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T959D using Tapatalk 2


that would be awesome...heres to hoping



2wheelsx2 said:


> You'll likely get fry, but the survival rate will be low, which is still pretty cool. I had one survive in my 125 gallon even with 6 Red Hump Geos and 70 or so adult lemon tetras in the tank.


thats cool! little guy musta been a good hider.

wow 70 lemons?! that must have been quite the sight. they school up well? Id assume they would with the larger fish in there.

******

tried to get some pics of the males showing off. not much luck. heres a few fish pics anyways


----------



## 2wheelsx2

> thats cool! little guy musta been a good hider.
> 
> wow 70 lemons?! that must have been quite the sight. they school up Well?


They school loosely,usually in 2 groups, but 70 lemons in 125 gallons really isn't a lot of fish so the effect isn't as obvious as I would like it to be. And I have only 1 geo left now, as I missed catching one when I traded them in so it's all a bit weird except my pleco population is stable now and I don't want to mess with the tank.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> They school loosely,usually in 2 groups, but 70 lemons in 125 gallons really isn't a lot of fish so the effect isn't as obvious as I would like it to be. And I have only 1 geo left now, as I missed catching one when I traded them in so it's all a bit weird except my pleco population is stable now and I don't want to mess with the tank.


Ya guess that's not that many. Still a nice size group, I can't decide whether to add more lemons, rummys or something else, but as it's only 38g ish im thinking 25-30 tetras would be pushing they're comfort zone.

********

Anyone think it's pointless to worry about a big WC and clean up that would likely siphon out any little lemon tetra eggs/fry? I think I read they hatch in about 30 hrs? Probably not worth putting off my maintenance for.......


----------



## trout

quick update. diatoms are for the most part all gone. left the tank on autopilot for 4 days while away, shut off the lights and co2 for that time. thought I'd return home to an algae farm, but seems not having the lights come on kept that at bay. it gets ambient natural lighting so everything wasn't totally dark while i was gone. 

got some new livestock arriving today :bigsmile: just prepping things before they get here. going to have a "full house" now. so much for sticking with one school of fish, thats boring anyways. photos later once everything settles in. oh yeah, finally picked up a 3 prong timer so I can get the co2 solenoid on a proper scheduale...yes Ive been manually plugging/unplugging it since the get go.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

4 days isn't that long and you would have been ok. I left mine for 2 weeks and even had reduced the lighting to 6 hours and it was an algae mess.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> 4 days isn't that long and you would have been ok. I left mine for 2 weeks and even had reduced the lighting to 6 hours and it was an algae mess.


true, but being the first time away from it for more than a day, I didnt really know what to expect. pulled the CO2 as it had no timer, so I had to cut the light as well.


----------



## trout

tank is what i would now consider fully stocked. might boot the lemons to my 55g, well see how it goes.

inhabitants:

-7 rummynose
-5 lemons
-6 CPD/Galaxy rasboras
-6 Otos
-6 Dicrossus m.
-3 Amano shrimp
-1 SS CRS (mia for over a month, checkerboard food if hes alive)

didnt get any decent pics last night, too busy watching the dicrossus behavior. really neat little fish, nice to see some personality opposed to the normal frantic behavior of the "dithers"


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> true, but being the first time away from it for more than a day, I didnt really know what to expect. pulled the CO2 as it had no timer, so I had to cut the light as well.


I see. So you're not running a solenoid? It's on 24/7? Or do you turn it on manually? I think for peace of mind, I would get a solenoid and a cheap mechanical timer.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> I see. So you're not running a solenoid? It's on 24/7? Or do you turn it on manually? I think for peace of mind, I would get a solenoid and a cheap mechanical timer.


oh ya has a burkett solenoid, just was manually plugging and unplugging since the get go. just got a timer yesterday, didnt have a 3 pronger kicking around. i can finally nail down a proper sched. now


----------



## trout

some new pics. not much going on other than a bit of trimming here and there, once a week WC and mild dosing.

more focused on the fish more so than the plants now, used to be the other way around.....something about d. maculatus i guess, so interesting to watch














































with on camera flash, trying to capture the color starting to show ^


----------



## trout




----------



## 2wheelsx2

Holy smokes, you need to do some pruning. How about L. aromatica in there or Ammania gracilis? Some orange/red/purples would give some nice contrast in a bunch.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> Holy smokes, you need to do some pruning. How about L. aromatica in there or Ammania gracilis? Some orange/red/purples would give some nice contrast in a bunch.


"some" pruning would be an understatement lol. I need a weedwacker!

Have thought about some colors for contrast, as the plants I was hoping for some reds don't have much color. L. Aromatica would be one id like to try some day. Also want to try r. macandra as well. Only problem with this tank is there is little to no real estate left for planting. That and I dont like messing around with my substrate much.


----------



## trout

Awesome report! Just found a decent sized lemon tetra fry! Just did a 30% WC and clean up, musta disturbed the little guy out of his hiding spot.

First fish I've ever breed! Big thanks to the post awhile back that some might make it.....

Got a few iPhone pics but not uploaded yet.....too excited! EDIT: added some pics. Hoping there's a few more....

Already showing color for a little guy. One of the dicrossus checked him out but didn't bother. Its almost the size of my smallest CPD




























and some random pics from about a week ago


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Congrats! Yes, those lemons are tough and easy to breed it seems. I stopped keeping track, but I'm sure I'm continually getting some fry in my 125 gallon, even with on remaining Geo in there.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> Congrats! Yes, those lemons are tough and easy to breed it seems. I stopped keeping track, but I'm sure I'm continually getting some fry in my 125 gallon, even with on remaining Geo in there.


Thanks! So excited, the obstacles he survived through boggles my mind, really hoping there's a few more hiding in there. Based on your experience, how old would you guess the little guy in my pics is? Prob about " }===> " this big with a nice yellow bottom streak on the fin.

That's amazing you still get some in your tank, they probably breed, or try fairly often in those numbers.


----------



## trout

rollercoaster of day today....couldnt account for an adult lemon, looked everywhere including the floor and behind the stand. found it 2 hours later 5 ft from the tank......so sad

why does this hobby always come with more downs than ups 

i keep my water level 2.5 inches below the top.....second lemon i have lost this way in last few months. time for some floaters or a screen i guess. also really hoping theres more than one lemon fry and that any in there all make it


----------



## 2wheelsx2

trout said:


> Thanks! So excited, the obstacles he survived through boggles my mind, really hoping there's a few more hiding in there. Based on your experience, how old would you guess the little guy in my pics is? Prob about " }===> " this big with a nice yellow bottom streak on the fin.


If it's showing yellow it's more than a month old. I would say based on your fancy graphic , that it's probably almost 2 months old. Mine is just starting to show yellow on the body and it's been at least 3 months since I saw it first, so it's probably 4 months old.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> If it's showing yellow it's more than a month old. I would say based on your fancy graphic , that it's probably almost 2 months old. Mine is just starting to show yellow on the body and it's been at least 3 months since I saw it first, so it's probably 4 months old.


Awesome. I was guessing around 6-8 weeks so 2 months sounds spot on.

What do you think the chances are or more than one? Havent seen the little fellar since I took pics, hoping the only real danger for them at that size is the lily inlets and getting enough food. Seeing as how the dicrossus showed little interest hopefully theyre large enough to survive. I'm guessing there is/was enough micro fauna to keep the one I saw going....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I don't think are in any danger from the inlets at all. It's unlikely that your inlets have more suction than the 3 canisters I run in my 125 including an FX5. I think mine hid and ate in the java fern the whole time. And you're right, they have enough to eat in a planted tank without you feeding them anything, once the tank is established.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> I don't think are in any danger from the inlets at all. It's unlikely that your inlets have more suction than the 3 canisters I run in my 125 including an FX5. I think mine hid and ate in the java fern the whole time. And you're right, they have enough to eat in a planted tank without you feeding them anything, once the tank is established.


Ya true enough. Probably slightly worried as I watched an smaller oto get suctioned to one of the slits in the lily outtake, thankfully was watching, unplugged the filter and he swam away.

Hoping he's in hiding as it still hasn't been seen since.


----------



## trout

Another bad update, during a fish count today notice a missing rummynose. First check was the floor, searched the tank....no luck. Kept looking all around the tank and floor, went to check on my drop checker an was shocked he had gotten right into it and into the indicator solution. Just stunned, has anyone ever had that happen? The fish is easily the same size as the narrow part o the tube that takes over a 90deg bend.


----------



## trout

Well, best possible update after the two losses over the last week, came home today and noticed not just the one lemon fry, but three in one sighting, possibly 4 or more, but three gauranteed!!!

Fed some tiny flake and watched them chow it down. The larger of the three swims out in the open with the rest of the fish. So stoked, at least three fry without even trying!


----------



## trout

Fry count is up to 5! Now have more baby's than adults! Trying to get quality pics is difficult without a macro lens. 

They seem to be popping up out of nowhere, buts what is funny is the ones that are out have staked out little safe spots and stick to them.


----------



## trout

little update. lemon fry count is up to 6. 5 good sized from the same batch im guessing, and 1 that is maybe a third of the size of the others, hoping there's more of these hiding:bigsmile:

other than that, needs a massive trim. holding off due to the fry.

getting a bit of algae. the gsa left on the glass is starting to fade, never touched it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

The little guys look like they're growing fast.


----------



## trout

They seem to be growing fairly quick. Got their first taste of bloodworms the other day, chopped them up real small and they went nuts! 

Another cool discovery, and I know this is a long shot, but I believe I have a egg filled oto. Super chubby and what looks almost like eggs at the base of the belly. Have read they can get egg bound without a male, but there's 5 total Otos in the tank so.....

Trying for a pic...


----------



## Reckon

Loving the grown out look, to me it doesn't need a trim


----------



## Smallermouse

all ur beautiful hard scape rocks are all hidden. Grow out transition in tank?


----------



## trout

Ya, been pondering what to do with all that downoi for awhile now, it looks good, but so does the hardscape when visible.

Once the last of the smaller lemon fry grow out a bit more, I'm probably going to mow it all down. I also need to figure out what to do with all the cuttings, there is ALOT of downoi.


----------



## trout

Reckon said:


> Loving the grown out look, to me it doesn't need a trim


Thanks! It got a fairly good hack shortly after my last update. Levelled the c. parva and some of the stems, but the stems look like it never happened.

Also, I have been without Co2 for almost 3 weeks, no ill effects other than slower growth, but I backed off on dosing as well. Have a bit of stubborn staghorn, but that started before I pulled the Co2. I'll eventually get it going again.....some day


----------



## trout

snapped a few fish pics today

lemon juvies










adult and its offspring...most likely










male or female?










hangin outo










had this guy for a year and a half




























group shot


----------



## trout

a few more of the maculatas

dirty glass, guess i missed a spot


----------



## Fish rookie

Very nice shots. Your downoi are doing fine with no Co2?


----------



## Smallermouse

trout said:


> a few more of the maculatas
> 
> dirty glass, guess i missed a spot


Where did u get this fish?


----------



## charles

They are beautiful  And more coming this way, I heard


----------



## The Big Cheese

I really like the look of this tank.


----------



## Smallermouse

Looking really awesome!,


----------



## trout

Thanks for everyone's kind words!

Fish rookie, the downoi growth has slowed a bit, but is still healthy and growing slowly.

Smallermouse, looks like Charles answered your question on the dicrossus, better keep your eye out for some on can aquatics.....very cool little cichlids.

Dicrossus have all been really colouring up this past week, still having some trouble sexing them, but definitely have four with yellow ventral fins I believe to be female. But one does look like it could be a sneaker male. The two I think are male, both getting some amazing blues in their ventral fins as well as a ton of colour on the dorsals. Either way I think they may be reaching sexual maturity.....as they are also getting a little more aggressive amongst themselves.

Also I think it may be time to update the title on this journal thread, the whole mountain(ish) concept ha kind of gone out the window


----------



## crimper

Awesome tank trout!


----------



## trout

Thanks crimper!

Not much to update other than the lack of co2 that has recently caused some bba to spring up, that is expected and my own fault for being negligent, why I let it happen is beyond me, never been one to follow the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule. Subconsciously I think I wanted a challenge....but not a bba challenge, <facepalm>


----------



## trout

really hard to capture the real colors in my lighting, let alone catch them flaring, but had to share this one anyways, not great and def not in focus....but cool anyways. the reds and blues are really shining through and im pretty sure they own this tank now. ive let the scape and plant focus left it its own demises. could post some pics i guess....of what not to do


----------



## trout

long overdue trimming happened over the last few weeks. some of the downoi was 5" stems. bba receding, still not using co2. also finanlly gave in a scraped the right side glass for the first time.

Turns out I had a hardscape under that downoi after all....but honestly miss the look of the downoi





































final lemon fry count was 16. they have an almost organish tinge to their dorslas, really odd but maybe they haven't fully grown yet?

current stock count:

-18 lemon tetra
-5 rummynose tetra
-6 dicrossus maculatas
-5 oto cats
-2-3 CRS (two for sure)
-1 PFR
-4 amano shrimp

current plants (adding a couple new sp)

-r. rostrata
-c. parva
-c. nurri
-c. lucens
-c. petchi -becktii
-neasae crassicaulis
-rotala nanjenshan
-l. arcuata
-hygro poly 'ceylon'
-alternanthera reineckii
-c. balansae
-echinordus 'A-FLAME'
still gotta clean my lily pipes, but that will be a pain and will likely only do that when I clean out the filter.

thanks for looking! cheers


----------



## Reckon

wow! looks so different! I see hardscape!! what happened to your downoi? i liked it there too 
I'm surprised your N. Crassicaulis is doing ok. Mine melted like crazy until I turned up the CO2

Also, I watched my Rummynose eat shrimp when I had them in the shrimp tank. Just thought I'd let you know.


----------



## trout

Reckon said:


> wow! looks so different! I see hardscape!! what happened to your downoi? i liked it there too
> I'm surprised your N. Crassicaulis is doing ok. Mine melted like crazy until I turned up the CO2
> 
> Also, I watched my Rummynose eat shrimp when I had them in the shrimp tank. Just thought I'd let you know.


Many thanks reckon! Downoi outgrew itself so to speak, trimmed out 50+ stems of it, which are now floating in my 13g that became holding tank. It did look good, but had to be trimmed. Lots left in there to regrow.

The nesae actually does very poorly without co2 in this tank, it grows but not well and zero color. Weird thing though, it grows great in my 13g holding tank without c02, and it grows very red......

The rummys have always shared a tank with shrimp even some nice CRS. Never seen them eat one but they will check out and harass the shrimp that start swimming in the water column, but not the amanos, they are bigger than the rummies ha. I do appreciate the heads up though.


----------



## Reckon

Hm. What's the lighting over the 13g? It's possible that if you give it very little light then it might not be as needy with the CO2. Very red probably = either LOTS of light and CO2, or not much NO3; however, definately not both or it would just die.

I'd love to see a pic of that N. Crassicaulis in your holding tank


----------



## trout

Reckon said:


> Hm. What's the lighting over the 13g? It's possible that if you give it very little light then it might not be as needy with the CO2. Very red probably = either LOTS of light and CO2, or not much NO3; however, definately not both or it would just die.
> 
> I'd love to see a pic of that N. Crassicaulis in your holding tank


24w T5HO, geissman 6k over a 13g bow. lots of light, no co2, no dosing. used to have DIY co2 ages ago. also lots of trimmings floating....

perplexing though, all the l. arcuata trimming i put in the holding tank also turn a much nicer red. gotta be the lighting

all cuttings came from the 75p, i even have a current shot of the nice red tops i put back into this tank, already going yellow/green


----------



## Reckon

trout said:


> 24w T5HO, geissman 6k over a 13g bow. lots of light, no co2, no dosing.


Hmm but still less than 2 watts per gallon. I'll bet it's the low nutrient levels due to no dosing that's making it so red. I'm no expert but my plants use much less nutrients and grow less with lighting less than 2 watts. Maybe that's why yours is not melting and has all that redness. You got just the right balance in there. Nevertheless it looks awesome. I feel I've hit a sweet spot with mine now too and its starting to come along. I'll post a close up shot when I get home on my journal. Mine's bright pink, not so much red.


----------



## Smallermouse

yay!! your beautiful rocks are back!


----------



## trout

Smallermouse said:


> yay!! your beautiful rocks are back!


yup sure are....or at least they were for awhile. bba is not fun


----------



## trout

some dicrossus pics. the alpha male (i believe theres a smaller less distinguished male) is getting crazy color.....which styill doesnt really show in the pics. visually getting better each day. hands down my current fav fish for a planted setup, and thanks again Charles! seen him show off to the ladies yesterday for the first time, no pics though 

theres one female that seems dominant and even will chase off this guy from time to time. not as nice visually but the ventrals are crazy yellow.


----------



## trout

few more


----------



## Luke78

Some amazing colors popping outta these dicrossus, could be showing off or getting ready to breed.Dwarf cichlids are so under rated, yet have a lot to offer!


----------



## trout

Luke78 said:


> Some amazing colors popping outta these dicrossus, could be showing off or getting ready to breed.Dwarf cichlids are so under rated, yet have a lot to offer!


very under rated, need more tanks to try some of the other dwarfs! and yup, fairly certain i saw two of the dominant females "fighting" for the male earlier, and he was right beside them watching every move.


----------



## trout

cant....stop......taking.....pics! more color today, noticeable on a daily basis now. also included a pic of a female (although a poor pic)


----------



## trout

Dicrossus have spawned! Must be doing something right :bigsmile:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Very nice. Got any pics?


----------



## trout

Just took the first one. Trying to not get my hopes to high. Although she is guarding them with an iron fist so that's a good start. Thinking of pulling all my lemons out, very unsure of my next step. PH is a tad high in regards to what they need to hatch, from whtat I've read anyways. 

Who has pointers?! I would appreciate any advice out there. Whiter they're fertile I'm unsure. The male is not allowed to even get close, good sign? Bah I'm so excited and yet so nervous, it would crush me to lose them should they become wigglers....


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I wouldn't get your hopes up too high for your first batch. It usual takes cichlids a few clutches to figure out how to fertilize the eggs properly and care for them. This has been my experience with discus anyway.


----------



## trout

Yep my exact thoughts and feelings as well. Good size clutch, looks like 30-40+

Just looking for any tips to give me the best odds possible. But like I had mentioned I'm really trying not to get my hopes up.

Still quite happy my first wild fish (as far as I know) have spawned.


----------



## trout

Eggs were gone this morning. Suspect they were eaten. She is still guarding the same area, possible she moved the eggs themselves?


----------



## Rastapus

Good luck with the next batch! Should be a better result, great to see someone breeding these guys, they are terrible shippers so hopefully the next batch will be successful!


----------



## Foxtail

Hey trout, if you need to rehome your lemons... I will help 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## trout

Rastapus said:


> Good luck with the next batch! Should be a better result, great to see someone breeding these guys, they are terrible shippers so hopefully the next batch will be successful!


Thanks Rasta! Already have a second chance as of this morning.



Foxtail said:


> Hey trout, if you need to rehome your lemons... I will help
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Thanks for the offer Foxtail  It would cost more to more to get them over there then it would be worth. Lots of room in my 55g should I give them the boot, slightly different params though....


----------



## trout

Alright, so a different female has spawned a new batch over night! This time on a crypt leave and very organized. Should be able to get some quality pics once the lights turn on. from a quick inspection this clutch looks to be 50+ and very nicely laid out. Last female had layed them on one of the ryouh stone.....

Im considering moving the danios out of the 13g to set it up as a growout/breeder for the dicrossus fry/eggs. The only worry there is it houses hundreds of MTS, so eggs would be vunerable. I guess my problem is whether to interfere, or let nature take it course. Fry count would be low if I dont do anyting I suspect....although it worked great for the lemon tetras, I doubt it would work for these. 

Any idea on how many dithers I should have in with breeding dicrossus? I know that some are needed to get the female to exhibit good parental care. Pics to follow in roughly an hour :bigsmile:


----------



## trout

first pic. not great but you get the idea. i need a macro lens badly, and some clean glass haha.



















courting dance










must be something in my water......love potion?


----------



## trout

Fourt batch is 20hrs in. Very health looking and she's not eating them!

Actually got to witness them spawning this time, right at dim light. Quite a sight to actualy see (sounds weird haha) tried for some vids and pics but it was way too dark. Changed my ligght controller to have some very dim moonlighting, I believe that helps the female with her clutch...

Also pulled 10 lemons out a few days back so there's half the amount of tetras for her to deal with. Also added a bunch of oak leaves and pulled out the old ones.


----------



## trout

anyone tired of my dicrossus updates yet?!? 

the most aggressive female has spawned again, less than two weeks since she last spawned? best looking clutch yet. happened within an hour since i fed and last looked in, once again they spawned during the sunset light cycle. 

pics to follow shortly. this will be the be the second go around since they started breeding, all 4 females have laid one clutch. funny part was i saw her "grooming" a crypt leaf earlier and has since laid eggs on tht leaf lol


----------



## Foxtail

Tired of your updates? I get all excited when I see an update. Thinking there might be Fri lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## trout

Foxtail said:


> Tired of your updates? I get all excited when I see an update. Thinking there might be Fri lol
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Ahhhhh I wish....hopefully round two for the females proves better

terrible photo of this clutch and some male pics. he still gets more color on a noticeable basis, although very hard to capture....still cant get a good full flare shot. the ventrals have the best color


----------



## jobber

Beautiful specimens and great pictures. Being able to get pictures of these fish takes a lot of skill. 
Hope the eggs turn into wrigglers. 

Videos up next?


----------



## trout

jobber said:


> Beautiful specimens and great pictures. Being able to get pictures of these fish takes a lot of skill.
> Hope the eggs turn into wrigglers.
> 
> Videos up next?


Many thanks! It is very tricky to pull off any decent shots of them, takes some time thats for sure!

Great idea, never even uploaded a vid before but if they do turn to wigglers and fry, I will gladly post my first vid! once i get a new memory card ha


----------



## jobber

shows a lot of patience being able to get good pictures, that's for sure.

so what are your ph and temp?


----------



## Tommy72a

I like to comment, very nice photos. Looks like you have a decent lens, what are you using?


----------



## trout

jobber said:


> shows a lot of patience being able to get good pictures, that's for sure.
> 
> so what are your ph and temp?


I'll post temp and pH once I post in the show and tell thread 



Tommy72a said:


> I like to comment, very nice photos. Looks like you have a decent lens, what are you using?


Thanks Tommy, canon t3i with kit lens. Great little camera. Welcome to the forum btw


----------



## trout

Came home to a couple wigglers! J now know why they have that name 

Only three so far. I incubated the eggs myself, just shy of the 72hr mark. Getting ready to siphon them to a mini tank. An airline siphon should be ok I presume? Hoping not to hurt them, as there's only 3 I can't expect any survival but going to give it my best shot


----------



## trout




----------



## 2wheelsx2

Wow that's tiny.


----------



## trout

2wheelsx2 said:


> Wow that's tiny.


very tiny. I think there on day 4 from hatching, turns out I have 3 and they were successfully transferred to a semi diy breeder box. watched one of them actually swim up the to surface and do a few circles last night. one of the coolest sites ive experienced in this hobby.

my only issue now is the fact i have none of the conventional fry foods on hand (bbs, microworms etc) so currently trying to culture some microfauna from my 13g to hopefully get them by. also grabbed some moss from that same tank and tossed it in the breeder. 3 fry isn't much, but they have made it to free swimming!!! I think the next attempt should be much better after this experience, as I know at least 10-20 hatched, but most fell through my breeder into the main tank. will try for some better pics.....not easy

edit: pics added





































finally caught the ventral flare!


----------



## trout

came home to a massive crypt melt, started yesterday with just a few leaves, now most of two crypts have just vanished. assuming it's crypt melt anyways, never had it but it sure looks that way. was likely caused by my major mistake of leaving the filter unplugged for about 18 hours, as the heater is inline with the filter the temp dropped to 68 with no water through it.....

no idea how the fry survived, let alone the other fish. But the fry are doing great today, one is fully swimming like a normal fish, chowing down microfauna. the moss i added to the breeder box was full of it. down to 2 healthy fry for sure, i may have lost one


----------



## dabandit1

Very well written and exciting thread,good luck with the little ones....beautiful tank rekindled a bit of my love for fresh water. Good thing I ran out of reading a few more pages I would have gone out and bought another tank lol


----------



## trout

dabandit1 said:


> Very well written and exciting thread,good luck with the little ones....beautiful tank rekindled a bit of my love for fresh water. Good thing I ran out of reading a few more pages I would have gone out and bought another tank lol


Many thanks! Theres always an excuse to get another tank!

**********

Two fry are doing great! (yes i realize posting about two is kinda silly, but if i left them in the tank i'd have none)

noticeable growth, fins visible and can also make out the pupils in the eyes. great little swimmers now as well!

and to top it off, came home from work to see the same moma has layed her 4th clutch now, same crypt everytime, smaller clutch however as she picked a leave that is melting  I may end up leaving this clutch in the tank, not decided if I should try to incubate myself again, although it would be a better result this go around...


----------



## trout

lost my fry day or two after the last post  took a awhile to get over that, was pretty choked. they were so healthy looking and cruising the breeder box the night before. also the 4th clutch that was mentioned got eaten in under 16 hrs. not too sure im cut out to breed these....need more care and attention to the finer details.

lost about 80% of overall cyrpt mass during a melt. did a fair bit of overhauling and maintenance last few days. need to focus more on the scape itself, kind let it slide.

also removed the last 4 lemon tetras and transferred three angelfish into here last night. they really suit the whole theme and bring the tank together.....so far

pic from a few days ago, without angels


----------



## Reckon

Funny, still looks like a natural lake or riverbed 
Must be the rocks and wood.


----------



## trout

Reckon said:


> Funny, still looks like a natural lake or riverbed
> Must be the rocks and wood.


or the algae  that gives it the real natural look haha

i do think the wood helps add a fair bit of depth to it. have been tweaking it last few days. tied some riccia and moss the the larger branch. not sure if i need more or less though.


----------



## Reckon

trout said:


> or the algae  that gives it the real natural look haha
> 
> i do think the wood helps add a fair bit of depth to it. have been tweaking it last few days. tied some riccia and moss the the larger branch. not sure if i need more or less though.


Hm, I think that's totally up to you, but I think it just needs to be balanced with whats growing from the substrate. So perhaps, if the substrate is really heavily covered with plants then the amount of moss/riccia on the wood can equally as much.

I'm envious that the wood gets brancy on the bottom and not on the top. It's easier to pull it out tie the moss then put it back down. For my current stump, now that I got some moss for it, I realized I can't pull it out without messing up the scape. I have to settle with jamming moss into little holes or crags in the wood.


----------



## trout

Reckon said:


> Hm, I think that's totally up to you, but I think it just needs to be balanced with whats growing from the substrate. So perhaps, if the substrate is really heavily covered with plants then the amount of moss/riccia on the wood can equally as much.
> 
> I'm envious that the wood gets brancy on the bottom and not on the top. It's easier to pull it out tie the moss then put it back down. For my current stump, now that I got some moss for it, I realized I can't pull it out without messing up the scape. I have to settle with jamming moss into little holes or crags in the wood.


ah i meant to say more or less wood (or none). but that is also a great point as i have been contemplating how much plant matter to tie onto them. also i can see it matters quite a bit where the clumps get tied visually in terms of the rest of the planting/hardscape.

you could always use some superglue gel for your moss. something ive been wanting to try


----------



## waynet

Spectacular Setup. If you have ADA,Fluval Substrate, this Erios plant, and this needle type of plant grow well. I don't know their names. I can't sell any now since I only have two plants.

Really, I did nothing special. No CO2, no plant food, just 6-7 hours of T8 lamp for the 50gallon tank with a few shrimps.


----------



## trout

waynet said:


> View attachment 15234
> 
> View attachment 15235
> 
> 
> Spectacular Setup. If you have ADA,Fluval Substrate, this Erios plant, and this needle type of plant grow well. I don't know their names. I can't sell any now since I only have two plants.
> 
> Really, I did nothing special. No CO2, no plant food, just 6-7 hours of T8 lamp for the 50gallon tank with a few shrimps.


thanks! one day ill try some erios im sure, they are pretty. nice to know they do well in those params. thanks for the tips!


----------



## trout

a crummy pic from tonight with the angels happily swimming around. dont mind the bubbles from earlier WC and the mess of flake food


----------



## Bien Lim

I love the addition of the wood!! its gonna looks nice when the tank settled in


----------



## trout

Bien Lim said:


> I love the addition of the wood!! its gonna looks nice when the tank settled in


many thanks!

******************

tweaked the wood around, tied on some java fern and some moss. rescaped a little, replanted some tops and did some other overdue maintenance.

thoughts on the re-scape? same two pieces of wood, can go back to what was there very easy.


----------



## jobber

I like the new placement of the wood. If you can get your hands on some weeping moss and have it grow dangling downwards, that'll be impressive. 

Nice pictures of the Dicrossus fries!


----------



## Sploosh

The new placement almost looks like the branches are reaching out, I like it 
Some plants hanging down off it growing upwards would look awesome.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

I also like the new arrangement. More natural and aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## trout

jobber said:


> I like the new placement of the wood. If you can get your hands on some weeping moss and have it grow dangling downwards, that'll be impressive
> Nice pictures of the Dicrossus fries!


Thanks! I was thinking the same, have always wanted to try a pine tree style with moss growing upwards in tufts.

Wish those fry were still around 



Sploosh said:


> The new placement almost looks like the branches are reaching out, I like it
> Some plants hanging down off it growing upwards would look awesome.


Thanks sploosh! Got a few plants attached already but will likely change them with some moss or fissidens if I can find some.....



2wheelsx2 said:


> I also like the new arrangement. More natural and aesthetically pleasing.


Thanks 2wheels, more natural definitely but I feel it still lacks a small piece or two and some tweaking. Something just looks slightly off to me, still deciding.

One of the angels is beginning to show more color than it used to, has some blue hues showing thru 

Just need a small more piece of DW to play with and I think it will come together nicely. Using wood definitely takes away from the rockscape but it ties the two together quite nicely. Having second thoughts on the bigger java fern I tied to the small piece already...

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Open to any suggestions scape wise!


----------



## trout

few angel pics.










straight off the camera....amazing what a little sunlight can do to bring out true colors


----------



## trout

Came home to find out I did still have a CRS in here. Have being the key word here 

Obvious culprit is one of the Angels. Even though it's pushing it with rmy and checkerboards, theve been fine for months, even if it was only seen every month or so haha. Still not a laughing matter, pretty choked  but its my own fault I guess.....


----------



## trout

more re-scaping.....might have found something to rest on.

this pic was tweaked just a tad, but only to highlight the sunlight and shadows, and ignore the dirty glass 










will try for a few pics in tonight or the next few days, poor tank is begging for some Co2 and ferts........


----------



## trout

more rescaping, i cant stop.....now ive got this crazy idea of putting in some some sand in the very back, kind of the end of the rock valley if that makes sense. might try putting a photo into paint or something and seeing how it could look. need to also figure out a better background, the pics i get with the sun on the tank and the shadows it makes look great....


----------



## trout




----------



## jobber

Great looking pics and video Mike. Those angels sure love chasing doen their food. What were they fed in the video? 

Nice rescape.

Sent from my mobile phone


----------



## trout

jobber said:


> Great looking pics and video Mike. Those angels sure love chasing doen their food. What were they fed in the video?
> 
> Nice rescape.
> 
> Sent from my mobile phone


Thanks Ming. Thats my first YouTube video! The angels were just getting a little bit of tropical flake. They go nuts as soon as I pick it up, they can tell from 6ft away when it's food time. Pretty funny.


----------



## trout

hope this and the next one work ok. pretty sure HD is a must and worth it. thanks for watching and enjoy. also a huge thanks to jobber for getting me on the vid train


----------



## trout




----------



## Reckon

What's the plant, planted onto the branch?


----------



## trout

Reckon said:


> What's the plant, planted onto the branch?


I was wondering if someone would ask that 

The color is a giveaway, the use of it.....not so much. Its alternanthera reineckii....two big stems tied on two branches. It's kinda working, but kind of not. There are some great examples of using stems to create trees out there. Less common than moss etc


----------



## trout

messy update pic, got rid of most of the bba, only to see some cyano pop up. yuck.


----------



## trout

only nice part to these pics (dont mind the algae) is the fact i noticed the recent dicrossus spawn after taking them. kind of like a "wheres waldo" in the fish world haha.

whats weird is the tank had just underwent a WC, trimming, replanting and 1 hour of scape tweaking. all sorts of muck tossed up, yet they still spawned. funny because they pretty much decided the scape adjusments for me, i had taken a break for 30 mins, and came back to the female dicrossus going batty. the fact she has held off the anglels for 20 hours now is pretty impressive. i may pull what eggs are left at the 48 hour mark.

did i mention ignore the algae on the sides?


----------



## trout

been awhile since an update. nothing special, fairly low maintinance atm. seeing some interesting stuff with the dicrossus, seems one or two females is now starting to show male colouring.


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Low maintenance is good. Most planted tank nuts eventually realize that high light, high CO2, and high nutrient load tanks are just too much work. They become algae infested messes too easily when maintenance is neglected. Stable, good looking tanks like yours are good. I think you need a bit more red in there though. Maybe Ammania gracilis?


----------



## trout

worst tank experience ever......lost all my dicrossus today. all 6 randomly perished with no outstanding obvious cause. the only one that appeared fine last night and still swimming was also dead this morning.

such a horrible feeling, as they were my most prized fish Ive ever had the pleasure of keeping. so torn and will likely tear down the tank once I deal with the angels. 

as I'm sure most will ask, I didnt bother checking params at that point as I was/still am way too devastated....and I realize it sounds bad with a few fish still in there, but I'm pretty much done with it. the three angels and 4 rummys that were also in the tank are fine and showed no ill signs. cant even find two of the dicrossus either. Can think of one of two things that could have caused it, but i think it was a combination of the two.....

might take a good long break, or just sell the setup off and move on, either way its soon to be shut down. if I were to compare losing fish in the past vs the dicrossus, id say i feel as though i lost one of my dogs. I loved those guys 

at least i got one good fts with the alpha m. strutting his stuff ^ rip buddy, and the rest of the harem. hope your all together somewhere scarfing down some tasty live foods.


----------



## Reckon

I feel for you, 4 of my 6 dicrossus died due to callamanus worms. These fish have so much personality, it really does hurt to see them die.


----------



## jobber

That's some tough news to read and very unfortunate set of events. They were beauties; but your tank is still quite the nice setup in its own right.


----------



## Foxtail

Hang in there trout, take a few days to gather your thoughts. Your tank is one of the nicest around. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## crimper

Sorry to hear that bro. I know how it feels. 

Chill out a bit, your planted tank fever will strike again...

Or maybe time to jump to the Dark Side...


----------



## trout

Thanks for the support everyone. still stings looking at the tank and not seeing them in there. but might try and turn this event into an opportunity to make things better. I was hasty in my previous post when saying I may shut it down and sell it off.....but it was an emotional loss.

as much as I would like to go over to the darkside (or brightside) just dont have the resources to make it happen anytime soon.

stay tuned for version II in the near future. and thanks again for everyones feedback and support on version I


----------



## Algae Beater

I have a small breeding group of dicrossus filamentosa starting to come into adulthood. 1 male and 3 female by my eye. If they breed I will let you know


----------



## trout

a few photos in tribute to my most beloved species of fish to have ever of kept, or even have the chance to have them and thriving/spawning


----------



## trout




----------



## trout




----------



## trout

http://images20.fotki.com/v682/photos/6/1859416/10379006/IMG_4635-vi.jpg


----------



## trout

also considering getting one of the best pics printed and framed. anyone recommend which one? theres probably other pics and some the same back in the journal...


----------



## trout

added a couple fish today, upped the rummynose shoal to 9 and also a young pair of gbr's. both almost instantly coloured right up after acclimating them, especially the rams. first time having them and seeing them in person, what a beautiful fish. working on some pics.


----------



## Foxtail

Nice, good to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## trout

first blue ram pic










angelfish pic










excited about the rams, but the male has since started being mean to the female (fairly sure) and am wondering if adding one or more would help that out? pretty sure i have room. the angels are somewhat stunted

current stock

-3 angels. not fully sure what type
-9 rummynose
-pair of blue rams


----------



## Foxtail

Beautiful ram! You should increase your school of rummies... They always look way better the more there are of them.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## charles

IME, I would think for dwarf cichlids, a reverse trio is better. More than often, the male will harem breed with every single females. Soon enough, the female will try to defend the newly hatch and kick the male out. Now the male will soon run out of space to go when all the females are doing the same.


----------



## trout

Foxtail said:


> Beautiful ram! You should increase your school of rummies... They always look way better the more there are of them.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Thanks! I agree, most i ever had in a school was about 13. 15-20 would look nice in here. I find myself wanting all sorts of different tetras, but when it comes down to it, one shoal usually works best. Might have to hit up Charles in a few weeks, only grabbed a few at LFS cause they were $5 a piece 



charles said:


> IME, I would think for dwarf cichlids, a reverse trio is better. More than often, the male will harem breed with every single females. Soon enough, the female will try to defend the newly hatch and kick the male out. Now the male will soon run out of space to go when all the females are doing the same.


So 2m to 1 f? If I have the room what about 2m 5f? Might be pushing it unless i rehome the angels. But I know who I'll be contacting if and when I do add more 

Also, any word on Dicrossus on any import lists? Would like to try a few again sometime down the road.......


----------



## trout

For anyone looking, how many more rummynose could be added without really pushing it? I've never been one to overstock and the three angels, although dwarfed, take up so much space and produce the most waste that I think they are really hindering what I can add....although the current 8 rummys dont mind them. In fact they kind of make them shoal up a bit tighter.

Also tempted to add another ram or two, but I think thats outta the question. Time for a bigger tank.....wish I went 90P in the first place

EDIT: or cardinal tetras in place of adding more rummynose, never had them but always really wanted some. Im thinking about 25 tetras total as the limit with whats in there


----------



## jobber

In real honesty, as long as you keep the feedings to a minimal you'll be fine. You feed more, you degrade water more, so more water changes. To give you an extremely example, I have about 36 tetras (Cardinals/rummies, black neons, etc etc) plus 3 big angels, bunch of rainbowfish, and a few breeding bnp in a 33gallon moderately planted tank and did water changes....what....once every 2 months. Kept the feedings low though. But i'm not recommending doing the same. I do consider tetras, like a fellow experienced hobbyist once told me at a lfs, tetras are just dither fish, they don't count towards the bioload


----------



## trout

jobber said:


> In real honesty, as long as you keep the feedings to a minimal you'll be fine. You feed more, you degrade water more, so more water changes. To give you an extremely example, I have about 36 tetras (Cardinals/rummies, black neons, etc etc) plus 3 big angels, bunch of rainbowfish, and a few breeding bnp in a 33gallon moderately planted tank and did water changes....what....once every 2 months. Kept the feedings low though. But i'm not recommending doing the same. I do consider tetras, like a fellow experienced hobbyist once told me at a lfs, tetras are just dither fish, they don't count towards the bioload


wow that seems like alot. in that case, for sure gonna get 12 rummys (wonder if Charles if looking  ) and either 12 cards or 12 more rummys, so 32 tetra total. always had good succes with them, only losses were jumpers on a full tank and one that found its way in a drop checker. cards i hear can be tricky....


----------



## jobber

Just keep in mind that ehat may work for my tank may not be the same result as yours. Though you do have better filtration than the 33g community tank I have which was running an AC50 and a sponge filter. I'm sure Charles can chime in to provide more info. His tetras are good stuff and healthy. I still have some cardinals and rummies from 3 years ago from Pat and Charles. 

Sent from my mobile phone


----------



## trout

pic update. poor tank is semi neglected due to the SW, although i do like the overgrown look....its likely this will be changed to a reef.


----------



## Foxtail

Looks like an overgrown jungle. I love it... If you decide to go reef, I'll take the Rummies lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## crimper

trout said:


> pic update. poor tank is semi neglected due to the SW, although i do like the overgrown look....its likely this will be changed to a reef.


You got bitten by the Salty Bug eh? Same here, I tore down my 57G Planted and will be converted this weekend :lol:


----------



## trout

Foxtail said:


> Looks like an overgrown jungle. I love it... If you decide to go reef, I'll take the Rummies lol
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


thanks! i bet you would.....only catch (no pun) is it would cost you more to come and get them than they are worth haha.



crimper said:


> You got bitten by the Salty Bug eh? Same here, I tore down my 57G Planted and will be converted this weekend :lol:


I did, badly, its like an infection spreading.....just want more. planted is fun, but just doesn't compare to salt/reef. still trying to decide if i want to even keep both at same time. this tank would make for a great salty display....if i have the nerve to drill it lol. very hesitant to sump it however


----------



## crimper

trout said:


> I did, badly, its like an infection spreading.....just want more. planted is fun, but just doesn't compare to salt/reef. still trying to decide if i want to even keep both at same time. this tank would make for a great salty display....if i have the nerve to drill it lol. very hesitant to sump it however


Planted tanks are very rewarding, I thought I am the happiest man on earth when I have successfully setup my CO2 injected Planted Discus tank. But after that I ended up wanting for more... more colors... more challenge.... it's totally a different dimention. And that what's saltwater tanks give. 

If I were you I will keep this tank, as I did on my 90G planted tank. If budget permits, just get a reef ready tank. I'm also hesitant on drilling my 57G rimless tank too. Either I put an over flow or just leave it as is without sump. There are reefers that have successfully setup a reef tank without sump and skimmer, just plain HOB filter, heater and a couple of power heads. The trade off is doing once a week WC which is not bad compared to my Daily WC on my Discus Grow Out tank.


----------



## trout

Wow been awhile since ive been on here. May as well throw up a quick update while here, no pics due to lack of computer to upload them. 

Tank is still running although I moved shortly after the last pic, and it's taken awhile to look like something again. Still no co2, I prefer the lower maintenance, had an angel spawn and got a couple to free swimmers before I lost most of the entire stock to an unknown disease. Lost the rockscape in the move, tried to recreate but just not the same. Down to one tank too, friend took my 55g and the 13h was decommissioned. 

Miss the site and everyone here, kinda getting the urge to start up one of my 12g longs that got the back burner treatment.

Will try for some pics soon!


----------



## Peekay

Great journal! Enjoyed reading through.

First picture in the whole thread ... That tank is so hawt even EMPTY. Starfire?


----------

