# High Tech with low tech plants?



## AquaSox (Jun 9, 2010)

I have extra co2 cylinder sitting around so was thinking of using it on my 72 gallon. 

Only 2 65 watt power cf lighting on there now @ 9hr/day. Mainly swords, crpts, java, bolbitis, and mosses. Everthing growing pretty well, but I think it could grow better. 

What do you think about CO2 dosing and fertilizing? Obviously these are not demanding stem plants so I should be able to get away with lower concentrations.

Anyone have a reference for high tech planted tanks with "low tech" plants in terms of dosing ferts?


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I dose my brothers tank like normal with his flame moss in there, without co2 it still grows pretty well. CO2 is his limiting factor though.


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## AquaSox (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, but what do you mean by normal as there are a number of methods. By normal do you mean EI?


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## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

I currently run CO2 on all my set-ups (because I can). You will definitely see expidited growth when added. You could also use an EI dosing regime but using a minimalistic approach. You should see lusher and quicker growth.

Best regards,

Stuart


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

EI is now the standard, my apologies!


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

These set ups are popping up all over the place now since high light high tech set ups can be a real pain maintenance and stability wise. People have been even placing window screen material between the lights and the tank to cut their powerful lights down to achieve this lighting threshhold..

for EI i'd stick with:
_60-80 Gallons (227-303 litres)
40ml solution or 3/4 tsp KNO3 3x a week
25ml solution or 3/16 tsp KH2PO4 3x a week
11ml solution or 1/4 tsp K2SO4 3x a week
15ml or 1/4 tsp traces 3x a week_

after 3-4 weeks test your nitrates before water change.
*5ppm*, up dosage slightly only on water change day
*10ppm*, great
*15ppm*, increase water change every third or fourth to 60%-75%
*20ppm*, change regime to this:
_40-60 Gallons (152-227 litres)
30ml solution or 1/2 tsp KNO3 3x a week
18ml solution or 1/8 tsp KH2PO4 3x a week
8ml solution or 1/8 tsp K2SO4 3x a week
10ml or 1/8 tsp traces 3x a week_

the joys of EI dosing is the weekly reset (>50% WC) to ensure the parameters don't rise to a toxic level. When i first start a tank on EI, i test the nitrates after 3 weeks, then 3 weeks later i test again, comparing the two results i do my final tweak to the regime and dont test at all unless something is wrong.


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## EDGE (Aug 24, 2010)

Swords, Java fern, bolitis, crypts uses more nitrate than stem plants. You will find your tank bottoming out in NO3 much faster than a stem focus planted tank. 

Given that you only have 2x 65 watt or is it (2 unit of 2x 65 watt = 260w?) over 72 gal which is just under moderate lighting. The limiting factor is light and not so much CO2. Though CO2 will improve growth, you will notice with additional lighting + CO2, the plant growth will be a lot more noticeable than just CO2 alone. 

Having really good surface movement/agitation will solve a lot of the CO2 issue in a low tech/low light tank.

What is the size (length of leaf+petiole) and type of java ferns, cryptocoryne and sword you have? That would give us a better idea if light or NO3 or CO2 is the main limiting factor or a combination of. 

What type of fish and approx how many is in there? 

low bio-load tank with such plants will bottom out nitrate really fast in high light setup but will chug along nicely in low to moderate lighting.


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## AquaSox (Jun 9, 2010)

Its one 2x65 W fixture. (I actually have another one sitting around, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to add it because of increased maintenance). Perhaps I could run a second fixture for only a couple hours.

*I have narrow leaf, standard, and Windelov varities of Java ferns. The java ferns are the least healthiest as I've experienced periodic melting of the narrow leaf ones.*
leaf length narrow leaf: up to 15 cm
windelow: 12 cm
normal: 25 cm

Swords are reaching surface of 72 gallon
Bolbitis around 35 cm.

I didn't know that the fern used nitrates faster....thanks.

*"Having really good surface movement/agitation will solve a lot of the CO2 issue in a low tech/low light tank."*
I have two canister filters...one on each end of the tank. I can see how this would improve circulation of CO2 and other nutrients, but I am confused as to how this would solve the CO2 issue. Doesn't this dissipate the CO2?

*As per EI:* I'm dosing it on another high tech tank (38 gallon) that has several stems and plants that would die without CO2 supplementation. 
What I'm wondering is in my 72 gallon if I can get away with like 15 ppm (half the standard dose) of CO2 and cutting EI dosing amounts.

I should have noted that I've been adding some Excel/Metricide every second day too.

*Fish:*

10 Congo tetras
1 SAE
3 Corydoras Aggasiz
1 Ottocat
was cardinal tetras but removed for quarantine
Plan on adding a school of roseline barbs


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

what surface agitation does is not degass co2, it simply encourages more gas exchange with the air around the tank. When there is no co2 source, plants will deplete what co2 there is in the water, so having more movement at the surface allows for more co2 to enter the water from the air in a low tech set up. When you inject co2, the surface movement will reverse the direction of the gas exchange since the tank will be more concentrated. But with injection methods, i still recommend a decent surface agitation to prevent plant decay build up at the water surface.

By dosing co2 in a low light set up you allow the plant to convert more of the nitrogen it uptakes into chlorophyll rather than rubisco, this means it can achieve greater growth and outcompete algae a lot easier than if it were just based on air exchange co2. You have an extra tank laying around, there is no need to let it gather dust  As for the nutrients, start with the 40-60 Gallons method if you feel its needed. Just measure the nitrates on sunday before water change. If its 5ppm or under, then you'll need to up the regime. EI ferts are dirt cheap so it shouldn't hit the pocket book.


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## AquaSox (Jun 9, 2010)

Added photo to show what growth is like in currently:


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