# 55g African Tank, Re-doing Cave Wall (New pics last page - Nov. 15 '10)



## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

* Update on Page 4, Oct 4, 2010 *

*Thinking of re-doing the cave wall with the right materials. Does anyone have experience using a black aquarium safe silicone?*

I finally have a few minutes to post some quick snaps of my new setup. The rock formations are just temporary, until I finish my cave wall. After that, I will remove the rocks and get a nice chunk of holey rock to free up some swimming room.

There are currently about 16 P. Saulosi (3 males, 11 females, 2 juvies), 1 cobalt blue, 1 small gold nugget, and 1 fully grown bristlenose.

Can't wait to finish the cave wall! Anyways, enjoy the pics


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## clintgv (May 6, 2010)

Nice fishies . I agree on the holy rock. I think they will like it more .


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

Nice work so far, are you plannin on making the wall all the way up the back? or just part way and having another form of diy hardscape continuing on?


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

The wall will cover the entire back. The picture only shows half of it, the other half is in the garage. I had to break it up in two halves so that it would fit inside the top holes of the tank.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

pretty cool, looks good
make sure you file the edges where the metal was cut so its not sharp


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Be careful with using sharp rocks. I know that my big peacocks used to injure themselves once in a while when they are chasing each other. Scrape an eye, stuff like that. I always try to use nice and smooth rocks now. Nice idea on the rock wall though.


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## jay_leask (Apr 22, 2010)

what kind of rocks are you using on the back? i seen that project on a web site and thought it was a cool idea.


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Mferko said:


> pretty cool, looks good
> make sure you file the edges where the metal was cut so its not sharp


I didn't bother to do that because all of the edges will be against the side of the tank or next to each other. The circle cutouts will be surrounded by the rocks as seen in the pics.



tony1928 said:


> Be careful with using sharp rocks. I know that my big peacocks used to injure themselves once in a while when they are chasing each other. Scrape an eye, stuff like that. I always try to use nice and smooth rocks now. Nice idea on the rock wall though.


Yea, that's why I am giving my feather rock I bought, wayyyy too sharp. The rocks in the pic are just temporary until I finish the cave wall. The rock used on the wall isn't too sharp, and is pretty soft.



jay_leask said:


> what kind of rocks are you using on the back? i seen that project on a web site and thought it was a cool idea.


I'm using black lava rock from a landscape supply store in poco. Only 2.25 for a pail, which I think I will end up using all of for the wall (48" by ~20"). I am following this guide Do It Yourself Aquarium Projects


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

nice looking tank, I like the cave idea, thanks for sharing


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

So I (mostly my gf) finally finished the cave wall... but it was disastrous. I thought I could put it in while the fish were still in there, but ended up kicking up a lot of sand. Bad judgement call on my part. It became so cloudy that I could barely see the fish. At that time I noticed they were breathing very hard as well, and many were either listless at the bottom or gasping near the top. I then got out the 20g and set it up and transfered them in there. 

Thinking that I had kicked up toxins buried in the sand, I checked the ammonia and nitrite and they were both at zero. This leaves me to believe that something in my cave caused them distress. It was either the lava rock or the 100% silicone I used. Either way, I think I will be scrapping this project, which really sucks because it ended up costing quite a bit for everything, not to mention the amount of time I (my gf) spent putting it all together. The worst part though is the hard I caused to the fish.

Unfortunately, by the time I got them into the 20g, it was too late. 1 female and 1 juvie died yesterday night and 1 male died today. There are a couple of females that look in very bad shape. They are just lying on their side gasping, moving sporadically once in a while. It appears as though my other 2 males and about 4-5 females have recovered for the most part. I found out during this ordeal that some females were carrying fry as well. My gf almost cried because she grew really attached to them in such a short amount of time.

In hindsight, I would have never started this project and just spent the money on some nice pieces of holey rock. It sure did look good though. I am hoping I can find another 55g tank only for cheap, as I do not trust this tank anymore.

Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

I wonder what it could have been. How long did you cure the silicone? Also, where did you get the lava rock? Just trying to help narrow it down, I can't think of what it could be except whatever new stuff you put in.


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## airbaggedmazda (Apr 27, 2010)

did you use metal gutter?


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## airbaggedmazda (Apr 27, 2010)

If its metal gutter I think it would be the painted coating to protect it from the water, in the diy they used vinyl.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

What silicone did you use ? Was it GE silicone I or II or something else?


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## jkcichlid (Apr 21, 2010)

no need to buy a new tank Just empty it out, clean it up good, and it will be as good as new.
I would be more concerned about my filter material being contaminated. Just replace it and clean the filter good and you will be good to go


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

tony1928 said:


> I wonder what it could have been. How long did you cure the silicone? Also, where did you get the lava rock? Just trying to help narrow it down, I can't think of what it could be except whatever new stuff you put in.





Diztrbd1 said:


> What silicone did you use ? Was it GE silicone I or II or something else?


I used GE 100% Silicone II. I had read it was aquarium safe. I let it cure for 2 days. The lava rock was bought from a landscape supply store in PoCo. I had to shovel it into a pail by myself, it was sitting in a huge pile they had outside.



airbaggedmazda said:


> did you use metal gutter?





airbaggedmazda said:


> If its metal gutter I think it would be the painted coating to protect it from the water, in the diy they used vinyl.


I did use metal gutter....  I had read through the DIY a couple of times still missed it. It never even occurred to me that gutters were made of anything other than metal.... That must be it.... ARGH 



jkcichlid said:


> no need to buy a new tank Just empty it out, clean it up good, and it will be as good as new.
> I would be more concerned about my filter material being contaminated. Just replace it and clean the filter good and you will be good to go


Thanks, I may do just that if I cannot find a replacement tank soon. I picked my current tank up dirt cheap but it is acrylic, bulging in the middle, and has a few good scratches so I wouldn't mind replacing it anyways.

Thanks for the quick help everyone.


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

the GE silicone II leeches ammonia and methanol(I believe) if you read on the tube it should say it on there. I think if you let it cure for a couple weeks it's ok. As I never emptied my tank just did alot of water changes, 6 weeks or so later I have no more fish deaths. I read alot about it after all my fish died, there was alot of debate about it. I used the GE II black and only let it cure for 2 days also. The silicone II has a mold/mildew preventer in it (which GE silicone I doesn't have) and that I believe is what caused my problems as well. I could be wrong but I would avoid the GE silicone II and if you do , let it cure for a week or 2.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

Sorry to hear that man!!! Must suck!!
Cheer up! Not ur fault, lesson learnt right?


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

Very sorry to hear about this disaster. This shouldn't discourage you from DIY stuff though. Hard work is never wasted, you always get something of use out of it. This time its knowledge for you.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

One thing i'd like to mention.. at least you lady appreciates your fish alot more now right? And the two of you spent some good quality time right? =) CHEER UP!


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## clintgv (May 6, 2010)

Sorry about what happened. Well atleast you know what to do next time right? . Get better soon .


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Diztrbd1 said:


> the GE silicone II leeches ammonia and methanol(I believe) if you read on the tube it should say it on there. I think if you let it cure for a couple weeks it's ok. As I never emptied my tank just did alot of water changes, 6 weeks or so later I have no more fish deaths. I read alot about it after all my fish died, there was alot of debate about it. I used the GE II black and only let it cure for 2 days also. The silicone II has a mold/mildew preventer in it (which GE silicone I doesn't have) and that I believe is what caused my problems as well. I could be wrong but I would avoid the GE silicone II and if you do , let it cure for a week or 2.


Wow thanks for the great info. I only did a quick search on GE II and read people have used it with success. I guess I failed to see the other half of the debate. Will def. research more thoroughly next time.



Smiladon said:


> Very sorry to hear about this disaster. This shouldn't discourage you from DIY stuff though. Hard work is never wasted, you always get something of use out of it. This time its knowledge for you.


Very true. I love DIY projects and I'm sure the next one is just around the corner. BTW, my female ram is really taking a liking to your male ram. They are inseperable. 



eternity302 said:


> One thing i'd like to mention.. at least you lady appreciates your fish alot more now right? And the two of you spent some good quality time right? =) CHEER UP!


Lol yes, until the juvie she named Baby died. She is already telling me to redo the project with the proper materials but I don't think I want to risk any more deaths. I really like these saulosi, they're very entertaining. Which reminds me, the surviors are all looking much better, even the ones that weren't looking so good. They are chasing each other like nothing ever happened.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone.


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Phew what a day! I was able to pick up a very nice glass 55g from Davej at a good price. It took a few hours and set it all up, with some coral sand I had sitting in a bucket. I also picked up a pair of 10000k bulbs from Patrick and swapped them in.

The rocks are again temporary, until I find some nice pieces of holey rock. The only thing I'm concerned with now is the filter bacteria. I had to replace all the media so I am now running the XP3 with new media and also running a cycled AC20. I am also dosing Stability which I find helps a lot. I am going to monitor the parameters daily and hopefully the bio filtration in the XP3 can catch up.

Sadly, the gold nugget and bristlenose plecos I had passed away last night. They were inside the contaminated tank the longest for obvious reasons. I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did, but it will be hard to replace the fully grown bristlenose. I do not see large adults for sale very often. I think I may just get a Synodontis species instead.


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## iKuik (Apr 24, 2010)

Too bad buddy.... everything was looking so good! They still look good now though. I'd say do the DIY with the right silicone and vinyl  It looked great! 

I don't think that putting the new wall in would cause problems that fast to be honest, with lots of rocks like that, a whole pile of waste can get stuck under which can build up into toxic gas which could be your problem as easily as the wall could've been

I remember that I didn't wash a few rocks properly and didn't see my cichlids start to show signs of it until a while later, like the next day. 

My opinion and good job on the restart man!


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## monkE (Aug 4, 2010)

Sorry about what happened man! the rock wall did look pretty sweet in that one picture. 

If your looking for a large Synodontis Cat i just traded mine in at IPU in richmond. It was probably 6 1/2" long and was great in my tank, though it was getting a little too big. They put him into a big tank with a huge Oscar in the back left corner by the desk. 

If you grab him, take good care of him and enjoy! He needs a good home!


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

iKuik said:


> Too bad buddy.... everything was looking so good! They still look good now though. I'd say do the DIY with the right silicone and vinyl  It looked great!
> 
> I don't think that putting the new wall in would cause problems that fast to be honest, with lots of rocks like that, a whole pile of waste can get stuck under which can build up into toxic gas which could be your problem as easily as the wall could've been
> 
> ...


After some thought, I think I might try to do just that:re-do the wall with the right materials. I've already seen the vinyl gutters although it's white, I could just spray paint it black. I'm still not sure what black silicone I can use that's aquarium safe.



monkE said:


> Sorry about what happened man! the rock wall did look pretty sweet in that one picture.
> 
> If your looking for a large Synodontis Cat i just traded mine in at IPU in richmond. It was probably 6 1/2" long and was great in my tank, though it was getting a little too big. They put him into a big tank with a huge Oscar in the back left corner by the desk.
> 
> If you grab him, take good care of him and enjoy! He needs a good home!


Thanks, I was able to get a featherfin from a member on bca.

I'll just ask again, does anyone have experience using an aquarium safe black silicone??


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

I am sure you will find enough information here regarding the right (fish safe) materials. Just ask around.

I'm glad to hear that the Rams paired up. I am sure both of them are happy 
BTW, if you want to raise the baby rams etc, then you might need to keep them in their own tank.


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

No breeding behavior yet, so I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there. 

As for the silicone, the consensus from my research seems to be that GE 1 windows and doors is aquarium safe. Has anyone used this successfully?


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## Aquaman (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow that really sucked ...so sorry to hear that. The ge 1 is good for tanks also if you can find CSL brand sealer ( no.160 ) it is awesome and I think it drys a bit faster than the GE.I had contacted the company and they actually sell it to a tank manufacturing plant.
It is a white tube with red stripe on the end.comes in 3 colors to boot.
on a separate note if your interested in another synodontis and or a few small red empresses let me know and I can give you a couple (n/c)


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

ngo911 said:


> Sadly, the gold nugget and bristlenose plecos I had passed away last night. They were inside the contaminated tank the longest for obvious reasons. I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did, but it will be hard to replace the fully grown bristlenose. I do not see large adults for sale very often.


Sacrx88 have some adult BNP's for sale right now, and I believe Charles is bringing in some wild adult Ancistrus soon, so if you want adults, it's not impossible.


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Aquaman said:


> Wow that really sucked ...so sorry to hear that. The ge 1 is good for tanks also if you can find CSL brand sealer ( no.160 ) it is awesome and I think it drys a bit faster than the GE.I had contacted the company and they actually sell it to a tank manufacturing plant.
> It is a white tube with red stripe on the end.comes in 3 colors to boot.
> on a separate note if your interested in another synodontis and or a few small red empresses let me know and I can give you a couple (n/c)


Sweet thanks for confirming GE1 is safe. I have yet to see CSL brand silicone but I'll keep my eyes open. And thanks for offering the fish. I think 1 syno is good for now and I am currently growing out a juvie red empress (no color yet). Do the ones you have have color?



2wheelsx2 said:


> Sacrx88 have some adult BNP's for sale right now, and I believe Charles is bringing in some wild adult Ancistrus soon, so if you want adults, it's not impossible.


Cool thanks for the heads up. I think I will hold off on that for now though, don't want a poop machine while tank is still new.


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

So after much more thorough research and patience, I was able to build a new cave wall that did NOT harm the fish.

Here are some of the changes from the first attempt:

1. I used Dow Corning 732 Multi-Purpose instead of GE II Windows and Doors (which has anti-mold properties)
2. I used vinyl gutters (like I was suppose to) instead of aluminum
3. I let it cure for 2 weeks instead of 2 days

Overall, I think it was worth the time. The fish seem to love it and I love watching them play tag through the tunnels. It really makes me wish I had gotten a wider tank though, maybe a 75g or 90g, as it really cut down on available width for foreground scaping.

It is really hard to get good pics of them using the caves because every time I come close, they come to the glass. Anyways, sorry for the crappy iPhone pics, my gf broke her camera at the PNE, and excuse the intake hose hanging on the front. I need to buy longer hose since I have to move the intake to the side now.

Thanks for everyone's help on this project.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks good!


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Patience definitely paid off....Looks great!!


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## Adz1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Awesome job on the wall...
looks great.


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## Johnnyfishtanks (Apr 21, 2010)

thats pretty whoop ass man


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Thanks!! Now it's time to turn my attention back to my planted lol... It's been neglected for the past month


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

cool, that wall looks great


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## clintgv (May 6, 2010)

Looks awesome. Good job!


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

The tank looks VERY NICE! Congrats on your success 

I am sure many will follow your footsteps.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

WOW! That's nicely done! I'm glad u didn't give up!!


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## Morainy (Apr 21, 2010)

I admire your persistence. You sure put a lot of work into that tank and it shows. It looks great.


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Thanks for the compliments!! My gf actually did the hardest part (gluing the rocks) so I'll let her know you guys like it.


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

good to see every thing worked out for you .


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

Good work. That's a really neat looking project and I love the concept. By the way, is the wall easy to remove for cleaning? Or is it permanently siliconed into place?


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## bodo (Apr 21, 2010)

very nice rock wall, well done! really got me thinking


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## Fishkeeper (Apr 21, 2010)

I am sorry for your loss, and thanks for sharing so we will all learn...people with more experience will probably let you know what went wrong.....it could have been the silicon wasn't cured enough...just my guess.....again sorry to hear of your loss....good luck in the restart...


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

4 zip ties are used to attatch the top of the wall to the plastic frame of the tank. It would be relatively easy to remove it although I hope I can figure out a way where I can clean it without removing it. 

Fishkeeper, I have already finished the restart and it turned out well! (See page 4)


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## BossRoss (Jun 17, 2010)

very cool - looks much better than the DIY 3D backgrounds i've seen, and very functional with the caves. How do you get in there to clean all of the poop out though?


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

I finally receive a replacement screen for my point and shoot so here are a few shots I took to test it out.

55g Full Tank Shot









It looks odd right now because I have 6500k lights on the right side and 10000k lights on the left side. One of my 10000k bulbs burned out so I am using a 6500k temporarily.

Unknown Peacock, Possibly Aulonocara Hueseri









I got this from a member and I promised I would take a picture of his peacock when I fixed my camera so here it is. It looks a lot like the fish in this profile Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum so I will call it that.

OB Peacock









Almost 3 inches

Juvie Growout









Picked up several Yellow Labs and Electric Orange Peacocks from a member and am growing them out in a 20g. The Labs are growing pretty fast and the peacocks are continuing to color up nicely.

Turtle Tank









I tore down my 29g planted and turned it into a turtle tank.

Basking Area









Makeshift basking area I made.

Reeves Turtle









Around 3.5 inches SCL. I know shes a bit big for this tank but they will be upgrading soon.

False Map









Around 1.5 inches SCL. I think its a she as well, not too sure yet. She is growing nicely, I can see a lot of shedding and schute growth.

That's all folks. Thanks for looking!


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## ray00ching (Apr 29, 2010)

What a wonderful setup! I am so glad he finally has a lovely home.


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## crazy72 (Apr 22, 2010)

What a great looking tank! That wall looks great. Thanks for posting the details (including the failure of the first attempt). Makes me feel like giving it a try...


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## ngo911 (May 19, 2010)

Thanks! Another thing I should point out is that having the wall adds about 10 mins to my weekly maintenance as I have to take off the vac tube from my python so that I can suck up the poop inside each compartment with the hose only. It is also a PAIN if you ever have to catch any fish as you can imagine...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Why not point a powerhead into the caves and blow them out before a water change? Might save you some time.


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