# Why Overstock



## marko (Jun 11, 2010)

What's up with people overstocking there tanks ? I just watch a vid on this fourm with a massive tank but so many fish also massive just all over no swimming space and no real aquascaping really I mean you think someone with that much tank space would really spend some time making the tank look good instead of just dumping huge fish together no. To much money I guess.Any way


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

one overstocks to prevent target aggresion and monster fish need room to swim..

most of my tank floor is open for my ray.. only one peice of driftwood in the corner.. and if i use real plants they would be eaten by the fish


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

I dont agree with overstocking either. I think there's other ways to deal with the agression issue. 

You can stock normally and have agression problems, so kill your fish slowly from poor water quality, because with a zillion fish in a huge tank.. who wants to do 25% water changes every 2 days?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

What are your other ways of solving such an issue as agression? 

now atm my tanks are not overstocked.. I have had to get rid of fish or lose them.. over stocking in theory creates movement so they cannot focus there abusive energy on one fish

one way is to not get aggresive fish but that really can limit your options of fish

and yes some people do there regular water changes in order to keep up the water quality and some dont mind doing this.


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you ever tried to aqua scape a 700 gallon tank? It's not cheap and with lg fish it's not easy



marko said:


> What's up with people overstocking there tanks ? I just watch a vid on this fourm with a massive tank but so many fish also massive just all over no swimming space and no real aquascaping really I mean you think someone with that much tank space would really spend some time making the tank look good instead of just dumping huge fish together no. To much money I guess.Any way


How do you know this person is killing their fish slowly . Most monster fish keepers I know spend a lot of money on their filtration and make sure it can handle the bio load they have in their tank. Some spend more on their filtration than the average fish keeper spends on their complete set up.



katienaha said:


> I dont agree with overstocking either. I think there's other ways to deal with the agression issue.
> 
> You can stock normally and have agression problems, so kill your fish slowly from poor water quality, because with a zillion fish in a huge tank.. who wants to do 25% water changes every 2 days?


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

Wow... defensive. Sorry I put my opinion out there.


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

I was just putting my opinion out there too



katienaha said:


> Wow... defensive. Sorry I put my opinion out there.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

well that the whole point of a debate.. one places an opinion and other counter in order to sway the other.. 

i havent overstocked yet.. but im am coming to the decision that in some cases it may be necisary


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

I guess another question here would be , whos best interests are you really looking after ? the fish or your own ? Personally as a hobbiest, i prefer to understock as there is too much at risk if everything goes sideways.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

marko said:


> What's up with people overstocking there tanks ? I just watch a vid on this fourm with a massive tank but so many fish also massive just all over no swimming space and no real aquascaping really I mean you think someone with that much tank space would really spend some time making the tank look good instead of just dumping huge fish together no. To much money I guess.Any way


Are you referring to my tank I guess?

Reason for overstocking is to prevent them from killing each other. Placing them with less fish and they can just select their target victim which will lead to continues bullying. It's not because of too much money, but also saving space and electric bills. Placing too many tanks can also cause to too much electric and if the electric current trips off and you're away. Chances are you will end up with an expensive dead fish by the time you come home. Learned that in the past when I had too many tanks with just a few fish in each tanks.



katienaha said:


> I dont agree with overstocking either. I think there's other ways to deal with the agression issue.
> 
> You can stock normally and have agression problems, so kill your fish slowly from poor water quality, because with a zillion fish in a huge tank.. who wants to do 25% water changes every 2 days?


Not many people still understand JDM community tank (Just Do Monsters). Try keeping the kind of fish that I have and if you figure out how to deal with aggression with less fish then give me shout. BTW how do you know that over stocking can always lead to poor quality. That's why you need to have an advance filteration system to prevent that from happening. I've been doing this kind of tank set up for many years now and I don't have problem with my fish. I actually see more people here that's still killing their monster fish that were kept in with less tank mates.


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

makes sense when if its to save the fish from aggression
creating territories can give them something to fight over too in regards to some of the aquascaping


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

That's why we have a monster fish section as many monster fish fish keeper gets flame by an average fish keeper who lacks understanding. The pioneers of JDM comm tank took long observation and research have been done to set up this kind of community set up. Those info then later pass on by was rejected by many hobbyist as they were clueless not untill they try it themselves and truly understand them when one after another started doing the same set up. Back in the pass I was completely against this kind of set up myself till I tried it myself and solved my problems of having to much large tanks. Try having 10-14+ 180g to 300g or more at your house and if you see if your electric can keep up with the electric plugs. You will probably end up with lots of electric trip off at your electric box, especially when you're leaving in an old house.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

What kind of filter set up do you have for this out of curiousity King-eL? It's probably fairly elaborate hey?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

effox said:


> What kind of filter set up do you have for this out of curiousity King-eL? It's probably fairly elaborate hey?


I use a sump


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

To understand more. Go to monsterfishkeeper.com and ask that question of "why overstocked?"


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

I think sumps are a fantastic way to "overstock" without overstocking. The fish dont benefit from the swimming space, but they benefit from the increased water volume.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Or if the tank is large enough, and you've already spent enough money, you can do a continuous or auto water changer. If you've already spent $5k on a setup, what's another $500? I plan to do something along those lines in my next big tank. Sump it, have plumbing in place that it's a turn of a knob to drain 50% and another knob to refill. Can even automate the dechlorinater. I personally try not to overstock, but whether it's aggression, or temptation, it happens, but it needn't be harmful to the fish if you do things properly, like 50% water change every 3 days.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

yea i have a 6ft sump for my 250 gal tank


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## big_bubba_B (Apr 25, 2010)

i could over stoc my tank no problem ... i have the filtration to do it . i do 13times my tank an hour . will have 43 fish when i am done stocking my tropheus tank but i have 2 fx5 and a xp4 on my 170


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## marko (Jun 11, 2010)

*stirring the pot*

Ok people I really didn't mean any harm just saying that personally aqua scape is half the fun of the set up and I think much more satisfying as a finished product plus much more interesting to see a natural habitat then just the fish alone yes, no ? I also realize that it takes a lot work and people take any shot at the set up to heart  that was not my intent just love a good pot stirring .


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

marko said:


> Ok people I really didn't mean any harm just saying that personally aqua scape is half the fun of the set up and I think much more satisfying as a finished product plus much more interesting to see a natural habitat then just the fish alone yes, no ? I also realize that it takes a lot work and people take any shot at the set up to heart  that was not my intent just love a good pot stirring .


ask a question get an answer.. i wouldnt consider it stirring the pot.. just enlightenment.. if you dont know something its logical to ask.. and those who know will answer


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

marko said:


> Ok people I really didn't mean any harm just saying that personally aqua scape is half the fun of the set up and I think much more satisfying as a finished product plus much more interesting to see a natural habitat then just the fish alone yes, no ? I also realize that it takes a lot work and people take any shot at the set up to heart  that was not my intent just love a good pot stirring .


No harm is done. Topics like these are good as this is a forum and we are just sharing infos of our hobby. Not everybody does the same with our tanks.


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## jobber (May 14, 2010)

why do monsterkeepers get so much flak but african cichlid owners to a lesser or non-existent degree of flak...

don't understand people.


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## TomC (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> ask a question get an answer.. and those who know will answer


 And sometimes those who dont know will answer too.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

TomC said:


> And sometimes those who dont know will answer too.


yea its tru.. but one gets no answers if they dont ask.. if those who dont know respond they may learn also from saying something wrong


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## katienaha (May 9, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Or if the tank is large enough, and you've already spent enough money, you can do a continuous or auto water changer. If you've already spent $5k on a setup, what's another $500? I plan to do something along those lines in my next big tank. Sump it, have plumbing in place that it's a turn of a knob to drain 50% and another knob to refill. Can even automate the dechlorinater. I personally try not to overstock, but whether it's aggression, or temptation, it happens, but it needn't be harmful to the fish if you do things properly, like 50% water change every 3 days.


I have seen this done. Done well, it is a FANTASTIC system. The one I saw, the guy was lucky and is on well water, so he had no need to dechlorinate, but, he did mention how easy it would be to auto-dose dechlorinator. Basically what he had going was all run on gravity and sensors. The water auto-drained until it was at the point of the drainage tube, and then began to fill again. I believe this occurred no more than a cm difference in water height in his giant tank, but the cycle I believe happened 20+ times a day. I suppose at the point of refilling, the conditioner could then be dosed.

Everything drained through the floor and into the basement and into your average sewer (I believe he had his run out to the garden/lawn though into a soaker system), and I dont recall how he set up the water going into the tank.

Brilliant.


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

The other reason for not really aquascaping these tanks is you are giving them territory to fight over


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## stingraylord (Jun 18, 2010)

marko said:


> What's up with people overstocking there tanks ? I just watch a vid on this fourm with a massive tank but so many fish also massive just all over no swimming space and no real aquascaping really I mean you think someone with that much tank space would really spend some time making the tank look good instead of just dumping huge fish together no. To much money I guess.Any way


Everybody has their opinion but I tend to agree with you!! Putting so many fish in a tank with barely any room to turn around without bumping into each other has me . The aquascaping is a little bit of a different scenario. If you have lots of stingrays like me its hard to put anything into the tank in the way of aquascaping as you want to have room on the bottom for the rays to move around. Aquascaping works good and bad depending on what kind of fish you want to keep. 
I believe if you have less fish in the tank you get to see more of their personality come out rather then the pack mentality when they are crammed in a tank and all they want to do is get to the food first!! I think there are other ways to house 50 different kinds monster fish then to just cram them all into one tank.


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## couch (Apr 22, 2010)

Maybe fish that can't be housed properly shouldn't be kept (or sold) at all . There are ridiculously huge fish that are sold in the fish trade that unless you own aquariums the size of the Vancouver Aquariums' shouldn't be kept at all.

As for Africans, I don't keep them myself but the video I have seen of natural habitats often has large mixed colonies living together similar to what you would see on a coral reef.

I do understand the difficulty of scaping these large tanks but you are really only limited by your imagination. If you have rays that every square inch of bottom, come up with a scape that doesn't touch the bottom (root systems for example) and lots of floating plants.


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## Edarion (Apr 21, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with overstocking as long as you have good filtration.


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## stingraylord (Jun 18, 2010)

couch said:


> Maybe fish that can't be housed properly shouldn't be kept (or sold) at all . There are ridiculously huge fish that are sold in the fish trade that unless you own aquariums the size of the Vancouver Aquariums' shouldn't be kept at all.
> 
> As for Africans, I don't keep them myself but the video I have seen of natural habitats often has large mixed colonies living together similar to what you would see on a coral reef.
> 
> I do understand the difficulty of scaping these large tanks but you are really only limited by your imagination. If you have rays that every square inch of bottom, come up with a scape that doesn't touch the bottom (root systems for example) and lots of floating plants.


Here is the extent of my aquascaping in one of my ray tanks. Just enough so it doesn't look boring! I think this tank is overstocked for a 450 gallon so I am getting another one built to give more room and comfort for my fish. This is my most heavily stocked tank. My 180 gallon has 3 fish, 230 gallon has 10 fish,150 gallon 2 fish and my 90 gallon is used for holding fish that might not work in any of my other tanks until I get a chance to sell them. So you can see I don't overstock my tanks and everything lives in harmony.


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## stingraylord (Jun 18, 2010)

TCR said:


> What are your other ways of solving such an issue as agression?
> 
> now atm my tanks are not overstocked.. I have had to get rid of fish or lose them.. over stocking in theory creates movement so they cannot focus there abusive energy on one fish
> 
> ...


Buy more tanks helps solve aggression problems and thus doesn't limit what you can get for fish. LOL


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## Adz1 (Apr 21, 2010)

stingraylord said:


> Here is the extent of my aquascaping in one of my ray tanks. Just enough so it doesn't look boring! I think this tank is overstocked for a 450 gallon so I am getting another one built to give more room and comfort for my fish. This is my most heavily stocked tank. My 180 gallon has 3 fish, 230 gallon has 10 fish,150 gallon 2 fish and my 90 gallon is used for holding fish that might not work in any of my other tanks until I get a chance to sell them. So you can see I don't overstock my tanks and everything lives in harmony.


that is one sweet looking Ray tank...


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## couch (Apr 22, 2010)

I think that is perfect for the fish you are keeping. I often wonder about bare bottom tanks that house the type of rays that like to bury themselves. It is so far removed for the natural environment that it just can't be comfortable or healthy for them.

R



stingraylord said:


> Here is the extent of my aquascaping in one of my ray tanks. Just enough so it doesn't look boring! I think this tank is overstocked for a 450 gallon so I am getting another one built to give more room and comfort for my fish. This is my most heavily stocked tank. My 180 gallon has 3 fish, 230 gallon has 10 fish,150 gallon 2 fish and my 90 gallon is used for holding fish that might not work in any of my other tanks until I get a chance to sell them. So you can see I don't overstock my tanks and everything lives in harmony.


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## Crazy_NDN (Apr 21, 2010)

katienaha said:


> Wow... defensive. Sorry I put my opinion out there.


im very interested in hearing your views on other options


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## Diztrbd1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Adz1 said:


> that is one sweet looking Ray tank...


totally agreed ...that is sweet and the minimal aquascaping adds alot to it!



stingraylord said:


> Everybody has their opinion but I tend to agree with you!! Putting so many fish in a tank with barely any room to turn around without bumping into each other has me . The aquascaping is a little bit of a different scenario. If you have lots of stingrays like me its hard to put anything into the tank in the way of aquascaping as you want to have room on the bottom for the rays to move around. Aquascaping works good and bad depending on what kind of fish you want to keep.
> I believe if you have less fish in the tank you get to see more of their personality come out rather then the pack mentality when they are crammed in a tank and all they want to do is get to the food first!! I think there are other ways to house 50 different kinds monster fish then to just cram them all into one tank.


Well said....I like your thinking. And the aquascaping you have in that tank is perfect for it and doesn't look too overstocked to me....beautiful tank, nice job!



couch said:


> . I often wonder about bare bottom tanks that house the type of rays that like to bury themselves. It is so far removed for the natural environment that it just can't be comfortable or healthy for them.


I feel the same about bare/bare bottom tanks, including the discus tanks. Has to suck living in a restricted living area, surrounded by nothing but 4 glass walls as it is . Least could have wood , rocks gravel or a little of anything from their natural environment as opposed to nothing. One would surely think the fish would be happier which leads to healthier...just my 2 cents


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## gwcana (Apr 22, 2010)

As someone who doesn't keep monster fish...this was a very interesting read...it seems like overstocking can be a touchy subject...kudos for all those who contributed...it certainly made me think


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## hondas3000 (Apr 22, 2010)

For me I like over stock because I want to be able to view all of my fish in one tank instead of looking different direction for different fish. Many like plant so they have plant tank but for people just like fish then they just want to have fish in their tank, and yes its not that easy to keep a monster tank filtration in good shape. I have spend lots of time and money try to perfect my filtration and until now I still need to do regular testing and upgrading until I am happy with it.


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