# What's killing my java fern?



## MaxAltitude (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi guys,

I've been having some issues with my narrow leaf java fern. I've been told that they are some of the easiest plants to care for but I'm still having troubles.

On some of the plants, the leaves turn brown then black, and it spreads to the entire plant and to other j.f. plants as well. This had happened in December and at the same time I noticed what might be Black Beard Algae on the driftwood where the java fern is, as well as on some other driftwood. Reading stuff in different forums online, I decided to get rid of all the affected plants, and soak the affected driftwood in peroxide, and scrub it with a toothbrush, then freshwater for a day or so. I though this would get rid of the problem and start fresh. I also added CO2 just before Christmas, and added a small powerhead for some extra water flow around the tank.
I got some new java fern and tried again. Well, the same problems are back. I still seem to have what might be BBA growing on the floating roots of the java fern. Another member has informed be that the BBA should not kill the java fern, and that does seem to be the case, those ones are fine for now. There are other plants however that are still getting the brown and black leaves. It may start at the tips or middle of the leaves then continues to spread to other leaves. Does anybody know why this might be happening?

45 Gallon, Ph about 6.8 or 7, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate about 20 ppm. Lights & CO2 on 8 hours per day. 77 degrees.

Hopefully the photos get attached...


----------



## kivyee (Oct 15, 2016)

Do you have other plants in the tank? If you do, does this happen only to the java fern?


----------



## PoolBoy (Jan 30, 2017)

Do you fertilize your plants? If not looks like a Nitrogen deficiency to me.


----------



## MaxAltitude (Mar 14, 2017)

I do have other plants in the tank and only the java fern seems to be affected.

Other plants:
anubias nana
Rotala Macranda
rotala rotundifolia
Rotala walichii
Cryptocoryn wendtii
and another one I don't know the name of yet.

I add 4ml of Flourish (45Gallon Tank) after my weekly 1/4 water change.

I have pulled all the java fern off of the driftwood and let it float or land wherever. It's still doing the same thing. Here are two more photos.


----------



## MaxAltitude (Mar 14, 2017)

Actually, it does look like the Rotala Macranda & rotala rotundifolia are having some issues too and have some problem or brown leaves. Not as severe or rapidly spreading as with the java fern though.


----------



## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

Java Ferns are nitrate sponges. If these are the only plants affected, I suspect you need to increase your nitrate dosing and this should stop the Java melt.

JMHO.

Stuart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaxAltitude (Mar 14, 2017)

Okay, I'll try that. What's the best product to use for that?


----------



## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

I would use dry ferts for being the most cost effective. Potassium Nitrate works well. Canadian Aquatics should stock it.

If you want to use a pre-made solution, Seachem nitrogen https://www.jlaquatics.com/seachem-flourish-nitrogen-additive-500ml.html also works well.

Respectfully,

Stuart

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaxAltitude (Mar 14, 2017)

I spoke with Patrick @ Canadian Aquatics. It looks like I can buy Potassium Nitrate from him by the pound, or 1/2 lb, or 1/4 lb, and he can ship it to me in Langley, or I can pick it up in Richmond. Doing the Seachem nitrogen liquid would be much quicker (today) at Fish Addicts down the road from me, and will likely last me quite a while even though it is not the best value compared to dry ferts. But they dry fets would last years for me... maybe too long.
I just noticed another dry product from Canadian aquatics on the web page, is this a mix that I should be interested in that would work for me? I'm new to all the plant stuff.

from Canadian aquatics:
PMDD a.k.a. Poor Man's Dupla Drop Mix - is a mixture of K2SO4, KNO3, MgSO4, and CSM+B which serves as an all around aquarium plant fertilizer. There's no need to decide what to mix as it's already premixed for you. Each portion makes 300ml of fertilizer. It's an inexpensive way to fertilize your aquarium plants!


----------



## CRS Fan (Apr 21, 2010)

It doesn’t look like you’re dosing ANY ferts. Is that correct? If SO you could try the PMDD approach as it is more comprehensive then just adding nitrogen and your other plants will also benefit.

Best regards,

Stuart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaxAltitude (Mar 14, 2017)

I have only be using Seachem Flourish at my weekly water changes, as well as Flourish tabs. So far that's it. I bought the Flourish Nitrogen today and put some in, and have ordered the PMDD today from Canadian Aquatics.
Thanks for the advice. Any other recommendations?


----------



## MaxAltitude (Mar 14, 2017)

In case anybody wanted an update... 
This science project has gone through a few more stages. I bought the Flourish Nitrogen from LFS as I wanted to start getting things better before the PMDD arrived. I received the PMDD within a few days and was dosing with that, giving about 16 drops per day (45G tank/~40G water) as well as 4 ml of Flourish once or twice a week. 
(PMDD a.k.a. Poor Man's Dupla Drop Mix - is a mixture of K2SO4, KNO3, MgSO4, and CSM+B which serves as an all around aquarium plant fertilizer.)

After a while the water seemed a bit green and slightly cloudy, I also lost my two Otocinclus Catfish even though the water parameters seemed good. The green was likely algae from all the new fertilizer, and the loss of the Ottos may also be from too much fertilizer.
During all of this, I added a few new fish, one of which had ich. I did daily treatments for the ich, including 25% daily water changes, and I also left the lights and CO2 off (5 days) in order to clear up the green water. Oh, I also reduced my daily PMDD dosage to about 5 drops.
The green water is now clear (for now?), and most of my plants seem to de doing very well with the added fertilizers. 
I lost most of the java fern and the Rotala walichii. All of the rotala rotundifolia has new growth, and the anubias nana also has new growth. Cryptocoryn wendtii is still doing well.
I also added some Helanthium 'Vesuvius' and hygrophila pinnatifida runners and those are doing fine right now.
So now in my fertilizer stash I have the PMDD, Seachem Flourish, and Seachem Flourish Nitrogen... I'm just not sure yet how much of each I should be using. Do any of the Planted Tank gurus here have any recommendations for my dosing amounts? Including how long to have lights on? I'm trying to find the proper balance of enough fertilizer and lights to keep the plants growing, the fish surviving, and not having the water turn green.


----------



## kivyee (Oct 15, 2016)

First off I just want to say I'm not an expert and I've also been lazy with gaining full background knowledge with the various fertilizing regimes you can have with an aquarium. On the other hand I have always had planted tanks that do reasonably well, low light, minimal algae, plants generally grow well etc.

Seachem flourish is referred to as a "micro" fertilizer, I.e. all the various compounds plants need in micro amounts to do well. While PMDD is a "macro" fertilizer, I.e. potassium, nitrogen etc compounds that the plant needs to grow. 
They both need to be used to ensure plants grow well. 

In my 12gallon which is heavily stocked, the fish waste provides enough of the macro ingredients that I generally don't dose macros. In my 20gallon, stocking is lighter so I'm finding I need macros to keep the plants happy. I usually dose micros every water change. But I think a more regular, shorter interval dosing is probably better for more consistent fertilizer levels in the tank (again, lazy)

I'm finding that an 8hr light period with a few hours "siesta" in between has worked well for me for control of algae and also to have the tanks lighted when I want to look at them. 

I suggest you do some research into EI dosing etc...I find Tom Barr's forums are a good source of info.


----------



## kivyee (Oct 15, 2016)

Oh, and your water turning green is a clear indication that you have too much fertilizer. There's no clear prescription for how much fertilizer as it really is unique to each tank. But basically you want to be enough to increase plant growth but not enough to increase algae growth.


----------

