# Global Warming - Time to own up to the problem



## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

This is significant new research published in the scientific journal Nature. It is worth reading and thinking about:

BBC News - CO2 'drove end to last ice age'

The most significant thing about the research is that it undercuts one of the main arguments made by "climate sceptics" - that the earth's climate has changed before without human CO2 emissions; now it appears that the global warming at the end of the last ice age was accompanied by a rise in atmospheric CO2; all the more reason to get our global house in order now and lower our CO2 emissions.

To this end, a NASA scientist is arguing we should institute a global carbon tax:

Nasa scientist: climate change is a moral issue on a par with slavery | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Locally, we should be asking ourselves if we really want the new Enbridge and Kinder Morgan pipelines to come online...not to mention further development of the Alberta tar sands.


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## Scherb (Feb 10, 2011)

Hello. I think everybody knows global warming is a problem, the problem is, that nobody knows what the consequences will be. therefore nobody fears the problem. and then nobody cares. what you or me do will help very little. big business and autos are the worst polluter. and good luck trying to stop that. some of the Europeans are doing well dealing with pollution, but it needs to be global. So i guess we will have to wait and see what happens. Cheers


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I agree with you Stratos, tax the middle or lower class. *sarcasm* 

My co-worker presented me with a line graph (furthermore putting it as his desktop wallpaper to prove the fact) of which Al Gore apparently used in his "documentary" about climate change. He (my co-worker) pretentiously said "it proves without a certain of a doubt that temperature rose as a result of CO2" despite the chart quite evidently indicating that temperature rose, prior to CO2, despite his ignorance to read a simple graph.

I don't care if others agree with me, but did anyone learn of the "ice age" in elementary school? My main question is who refers to that as a "climate change" as they rightfully should? That one seems fairly natural of a cause to me.


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

Concerning the problems we are facing: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/07/opinion/sustainably-feeding-a-changing-world.html?ref=global-home


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

"The challenge is feeding all those people as the climate changes in ways we can barely project. Again, from this point forth is we must tax the middle"

Personally, if I was this stupid, I would ENSURE we tax those on welfare or disability while we're at it... Actually, I'd ensure clean burnin' enthanol wasn't legal either, 'cause I like corn on the cob durin' summer...


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

Just a few ideas to consider:

1. global minimum wage
2. global harmonized corporate taxes
3. subsidized solar conversion kits for all homes and businesses
4. subsidized wind turbines where feasible
5. heavy investment in public transit within cities and "bullet trains" between cities
6. use carbon fuel taxes, along with increased fuel tax - to help pay for 3, 4 and 5 above
7. tax credits for bicycles
8. promote "green architecture"; the new Telus tower in downtown Vancouver that sold out in 4 days on the market is a good start, but we can do better!
9. institute the 100 mile rule - individuals, towns, and cities should strive to get all their food from produce within 100 miles of where they are
10. No Enbridge pipeline, freeze development of the Alberta tar sands at current level.

As for Al Gore's funny line graph, as the article in the BBC illustrates, Co2 was a _leading indicator_ of increased temperatures at the end of the last ice age; thus, the Co2 level went up _before_ the global temperature went up. Think about it...


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

people dont vote to make politicians own up to their actions. Further more, the people who do care and run for politics fail to unite under a more broader platform, rather they team up in so many off shoot (and sometimes wing nut) affiliations that their mission statement is lost due to ignorance of their parties. For those saying our voting system is flawed, well our voting system wont change until those who want the change actually use to it place people in power. Until global climate change can be addressed, the apathy towards the state of western nation democracies needs to be corrected


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

I totally agree with you Neven! One year from now we have a provincial election, within 3 years another federal election. Let's make politicians know we care about global environmental issues and that _we do not want the status quo!_


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I wasn't going to "Like" this, but "Until global climate change can be addressed, the apathy towards the state of western nation democracies needs to be corrected really prioritized the whole situtation." fairly much sums it up, beyond the Euro bound to go to crap now as a result of "western" (aka "global bankers") economics.


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

Let's have a New Deal with Canada leading the way to investing in an environmentally sustainable economy. It can be done!


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

Similarly that we united globally for Kyoto?


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

"1. global minimum wage" I won't waste anyone's time going further than that beyond...:

Let's take it a step further to actually make your plan feasible, let's make a global currency as you suggested, while we ignore one own country's "debt". Global minimum wage?? Unlike your second suggestion, which I feel is almost a ridiculous, at least the previous was percentage based. Not to be ridiculously harsh, but Stalin had a similar plan for his country, did he not?


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## neven (May 15, 2010)

We have little control, partially due to the reason i stated above. But there are greater issues. We have a global economy with no way to put in place measures to control it. There will always be nations ignoring the treaties signed (or treaties forced upon). The only way to limit that would be to re-institute strict trade barriers to the extent of full protectionism. This will hinder the "life-style" of people here since it would cause consumer goods to sky rocket, food prices to increase, etc. People want their toys, now they can't afford 2 ipads, a PC, a big screen tv, and 3 cell phones each (not that they could before hand, but thats another topic). The people who wanted the change will want to ignore global warming again, why? because it affects them on a personal level.

Keep in mind a total restructuring of not only the economy, but the mindset of the corporate world will need to happen, not going to happen when they will be the ones losing money. They will always choose to make as much money as they can now, at the cost of long term sustainability (business wise), why? because they will be long gone (dead or career wise) by the time the negative affects hit the companies.

Now lets look at what we can do.
Reduce water usage... Locally, that equals less usage of energy to pump water through the grid, water wise, no gains except in july-sept.
Reduce power usage... We have hydro electric, reduced usage = greater amount of power being sold elsewhere with no dividends being rewarded to us in a form of rate decreases
Recycle.................... Majority of which you recycle in the blue bins, they go guess where.... THE DUMP! Recycling contractors get paid to pick up the plastics, get paid when they resell the goods, but they dont get paid to sit on the product if they are unable to sell it quickly, so they ship it to the landfill if theres no buyer, which is often.

Now lets look at past global warming campaigns:
Save the trees! The OZONE LAYER IS DISAPPEARING = greater use of plastics
Save the fish! = open pen fish farms poisoning the wild fish, seeded areas throughout europe for sustainable 'wild' stock that overtook the local eco systems.
Stop the crop sprayin! Reduce chemicals used in our farmed food! = raw sewage (not even solids seperated) from septic tanks and johnny on the spots being used throughout canada for fertilizing(yes, blue stuff and all); Genetically engineered crops being used, many of which engineered to not reproduce on their own, meaning you need to keep paying for a crop as a farmer.
and now: FIX EVERYTHING. = Green products are splashed around everywhere, its a marketing word, often times products being unchanged. We get told to recycle (read above), reduce power, reduce water, reduce waste, etc, we are but a small percentage of the usage, industry being the largest of all (which we indirectly cause). While this is happening, more and more ready to eat foods are being pushed and over packaged to crap. Green labelled products have packages often times triple the necessary size just so we can see it (more waste), Disposable products are at an all time high (gladware, swiffer, cleaning wipes, etc.).

Dont get me wrong, i think change needs to be done, but i do what i can do. I vote for what i believe in, i recycle despite where it ends up, i try not to leave taps on, reuse fish tank water, lowered power usage through alternative lighting methods, i don't drive a car, i use public transit, i refuse to use most disposable products (daipers are the exception), and i almost never eat prepackaged or prepared foods. Overall, it makes no difference to global warming, even if everyone around here did it, but it saves me a ton a lot of cash. Thats the key to all we can do though, people need to realize that a lot of money can be saved at little cost to convenience, with the added bonus of "being green." Beyond that money needs to be spent to buy the politicians since voters aren't taking their jobs away.


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## effox (Apr 21, 2010)

I can't disagree with you at the least Neven! (Primarily because nobody boils their kid's dirty shorts anymore!)


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## raeven (May 12, 2011)

What I like about this whole global warming thing is that everyone seems to think that it's cars and such that are the big issues behind it all, when really, it's something a lot more than that.

Believe it or not, but it's actually livestock.

There are roughly 90 BILLION farm animals out there being raised for food production, and the number is only growing higher with the demand of more meat. What about the energy to grow their food, to feed them, to transport them, to slaughter and finally to your local grocer in the form of packaged flesh OR prepared/frozen meals and various by-products.

Let's not forget these billions of beings produce massive amounts of feces and urine and it has to go somewhere. Negative health issues aside, this practice most certainly contributes to wide scale pollution and contamination of our air, water and land. There is methane and ammonia in all that waste, which are two major factors that contribute to global warming.


Now don't think this is a cry for a vegetarian to try and bring in another point that eating animals is wrong. I very much love my meat. But I also understand that there are obviously a lot of negative effects for having this amount of livestock in the world.


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

And this is the kind of thing _we should be doing _in Canada:

BBC News - Are Denmark's renewable energy goals wishful thinking?


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

This thread is over 4 years old. It has not been a good past 4 years concerning Global Warming. In fact, things are reaching a crisis point for coral reefs:

Global warming, El Nino leave 36 per cent of coral reefs on death watch - Technology & Science - CBC News

And today comes this news:

Earth's Relentless Warming Just Hit a Terrible New Threshold - Bloomberg

Later this week the National Energy Board is going to be releasing its recommendations concerning the Kinder Morgan Trans-Mountain Pipeline expansion. If it gets approved, get ready for action from climate activists in the months to come.


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

Here we go - Kinder Morgan Transmountain pipeline expansion just got approved by the NEB. This means 400 tankers a year off our BC coast filled with dirty TAR SAND climate killing heavy bitumen.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pipeline-transmountain-neb-recommendation-1.3589518

Oppose this development and join the Dogwood Initiative today: https://dogwoodinitiative.org/

You can't out-message the organized


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## waterbox (Nov 26, 2011)

Very much appreciate your efforts to revive this thread, stratos. I believe this issue (global warming) should be a priority for everyone in the developed world.

I agree with you: Developing more long-term infrastructure to perpetuate our oil-based economy is madness. We need to put our efforts into developing alternatives to oil consumption. As Denmark and some European countries (like Germany) have shown us, it _can_ be done. It _is_ being done. But for some reason, people in North America (with the exception of a few true leaders, like Elon Musk) prefer to stand around saying, "Well, nothing I do will make a difference. Therefore I will make no effort."

Do you know what it would have taken for North America to meet the goals of the Kyoto accord? Everyone would have to dry their clothes on a line, rather than stuffing it into the clothes dryer--the single most energy-hungry appliance in most of our homes (unless you have central air conditioning). That's all. Not much of an effort, really, to save a planetary ecosystem.

We've got to try harder. We have to curb our energy consumption, give up our private automobiles, reduce consumption of meat, and have no more than one child.

These are things that most of us can do, if we want them badly enough.

The problem is laziness.


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## coppercloud (Apr 14, 2012)

Agriculture, specifically cattle ranching is a huge contributor to Global warming, of course, nobody wants to talk about that...


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## waterbox (Nov 26, 2011)

I think lots of people want to talk about it. . . specifically, vegetarians. Personally, I love meat. My greatest environmental offense is that I still eat it. But I have cut down a lot. Over the last six or seven years, I've probably reduced my consumption by two thirds. I plan to continue to reduce the amount I eat as I find more and more good vegetarian meals to fix.


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, giving up on meat is a progressive move. I've cut way way down over the years. Of course my kids (who are young adults) have upped the ante by becoming Vegans. Now that is a really tough one for me.

From what I have read, it won't be that long and we will have lab grown meat to choose from at the supermarket. That will make things interesting.


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## Redshrimp2709 (Mar 21, 2016)

I think it's interesting that there is an impression that vegetarians are generally more sensitive to global warming than non-vegetarians. I am not vegetarian and I love meat, but I eat vegetables too. Balance is key - and before we stray off topic, I think having a well-rounded, balanced view of the facts is a great way to begin a conversation about global warming. 

First off, I will personally refer to "global warming" as "climate change" since the planet is not just steadily getting warmer in an even and clearly graphed manner. I also believe that climate change is merely the result of a specific type of problem; it is a consequence of a form of polluation. We pollute in many other ways as well. As aquarium hobbyists, I hope we all have a deeper insight into pollution. We all take care of our sensitive closed ecosystems and we in turn become connected to it. When fish, invertabrate, or plant life no longer thrive in our tanks, we feel the disappointment, anxiety, and fear. Alarm bells go off, we investigate, and then we act. We also know that whatever we put into our tanks, we get in return, reward or disappointment. I hope that each of us can treat our planet with the same sensitivity as we do our aquariums. 

With aquariums we can control the environment to a significant degree, and we can more easily wrap our minds around our tanks as a whole system and perceive to know how things work. With our planet, we are the residents and the planet is our tank in a way. We don't know everything about Earth and we certainly have less control. Many climate change deniers I think, honestly feel helpless to create change. They don't want to see the world go to hell, but at the same time, they see no way out and don't want to live miserable and feeling helpless for the rest of their lives. Others of course, are happy with their lives and how things are going or even more, how it "used to be" and they do not want to that to be threatened. There are of course, other reasons and combinations of reasons that motivate one to turn a blind eye. 

Sometimes denial turns into genuine disbelief. Sometimes people genuinely denied it long enough that they can no longer see climate change happening. Whether or not we believe climate change to be real, we should all agree on one thing: for every action, there is a reaction; we reap what we sow. This isn't a simple talk about karma or punishment. This is a basic reality we acknowledge within the aquarium hobby. In our smaller scale, closed systems, we see the consequences of actions and reactions more clearly and more immediately. It's harder when we are the fish in a vast ocean. 

We must however, see that what we put out on this planet doesn't magically dissapate into nothingness. So then I conclude this commentary with a reminder that climate change is not the problem, it is simply a consequence. Pollution is the problem, and aside from CO2, there is CO, methane, etc. We also poison our waters with mercury, lead, chlorine and many other things we would not think twice but to stay far away from. We certainly wouldn't want these substances near our beloved tanks - well, except CO2. LOL If only someone can capture CO2 from the air, pressurize it, and just distribute it to every aquarist in the world - LOL. I'm dreaming, or am I? 


Cheers,

Drew


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

Hmm, new year but same problem of global warming: https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ed-and-scientists-say-human-activity-to-blame


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