# New 250gal tank what to do?



## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Hey all,

Was planning on buying a 250gal tank and would like some insight on what I should do.

I have an agreement with my bf that I will have to get rid on of the 120gal tank and in it is a dat, jardini aro, featherfin cat, common plec, and african lungfish.

I really want to have rays but i'm unsure if the 250gal is ok for a couple of them.

Also I'm not sure if the fish I have with get along with rays

what kind of substrate should be used with the rays as well, I was think 3m sand in a cool colour

Also as I read that rays and aros are good together i was thinking of getting more aros as well, but I heard the jardinis are agressive.. can I mix aros or should I consider a diff subspecies of aro (eg. silver and black?) and with that said would the silver and black aros outgrow the tank?

Ive seen tanks with aros, rays and dats to so I think the dat should be fine

Insight would be very much appriciated


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

You may think a 250 gallon is huge, but if you are planning to keep some large fish long term, it will become quite small over time.

Thus, my recommendation is to either keep the single Jardini and raise it to adult size, or to replace it with a single silver/black SA arowana or perhaps an Asian arowana. Asiana aros are pricey, so you might want to pass on them for now. You don't mention what kind of jardini you have, is it a pearl? If so, they really are beautiful when adult and I would just stick with it.

I would also keep the dat you have and raise it up.

I would consider a trio (one male, two females) of royal motoros, Charles can get them for you from Canadian Aquatics at a reasonable price. If that is more than you want to spend just get one or a pair.

Keep in mind that the motoros will be tank busters and eventually a trio or even pair will outgrow your tank. A single motoro is all you will be able to keep long long term.

I don't know anything about featherfin cats; the pleco should be fine. And as you already mentioned, the lungfish has to go. 

3M sand has been discontinued, though you might find some kicking around. I would personally use #8 or #3 grade California river washed sand.

Finally, if it were me, I would consider a school of 7-10 Geophagus sp. "eartheaters" or clown loaches. I notice that Charles has earth eaters on special. If you want larger clown loaches (or more Indo dats), send me a pm and I can help out there.

Good luck with the set up.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

well i know a 250gal isn't all that big, cant upgrade to a massive tank till i own my own place and can build it into the foundation (the addiction lol)

the jardini I orig bought as a green and with further reading and looking at pics and such I realized its a Jardini. He is a greenish colour and was a lil paler green when i first got him, hes changed his colour a lil since I first got him (gotten I think a lil deeper greener a shinyer). I have no idea what kind of Jardini he is.

Would mind a black aro instead to keep a more natural south american theme (as I have a 150gal with angels and tetras hoping to one day get discus keeping it all in a south american biotope) but I thought they get really big, also I was hoping to have 2 aros, but if it will be too crowded then i guess not, i was thinking of getting rid of the jardini and going for 2 younger black aros?

when the budget is up I wouldnt mind a trio, thought I would just do a pair, what are the advatages of a trio verses a pair?

lungfish is gonna be a hard one to get rid of and I think hes cute but I guess I'll try to figure out what to do with him, for sure is gonna have to go, he was actually a spontanious purchuse and has worked out so far, but not suitable for the long term.

The plec is a lil stupid, dosent clean at all so i would mind seeing him go if I can find a algea eater that will work better then what he does lol

i wouldnt mind some more dats too but not quite yet as the tank is not set up yet, its in process of possible purchuse


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

Humm... Just from personal experience, I had a Jardini that snapped out of the blue one day... he slaughtered all his tank mates.. no clue why, can't explain why! I sold it right away to someone who wanted to house him alone. Just personally I wouldn't put an expensive ray with a Jardini together, but they are darn beautiful!

Anyways, I would go for black aro's like you mentioned or a high shine aro, they are most gorgeous!

OH, and I agree on the lungfish, hard to sell as heck at the end hahahaha!

Maybe consider a Flagtail as an algae eater!


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

With a 250g, If you wanna lessen the aggression do a JFM styke tank.
Here is the example. Only JDM style setup if you want everything to co-exist.








BTW there is only one pearl arowana aka S. jardini or autralian gold arowana. The other species of australian arowana is S. lechardti aka spotted arowana.


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## yuppa (Apr 22, 2010)

Jardini's can get crazy aggressive..

I recommend a Phoenix if your going with a south america theme.. Silvers and blacks are almost identical as adults, you really only see the difference when they are babies. The price of black aro (200 dollar ish) is near the price of asian aro - Red Tail Gold.. I would highly recommend an asian aro over black.. Other then that you can get large silver probably for free if you put out some feelers, they are impossible to get rid of once they get large.

What are you going to do with the lungfish? How big is it now?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

So the flagtails (aka phoenix?) should be in a group correct

so should I do
- an asian aro
- small goup of flagtails
-rays (how many just one?)
-couple dats

would that be a good mix?

the lungfish I'll prolly try to trade for something I want for my set up or try selling for what I paid (I only had him for prolly four months.. still have the recipt too)
hes about 9ish inch dosent really cause any promblems yet tho.


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## stratos (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> So the flagtails (aka phoenix?) should be in a group correct
> 
> so should I do
> - an asian aro
> ...


Sounds like a good mix to me. 

Oh, and Yuppa has had a thing for African lungfish for years I think (ask him to tell you about the one he gave to an ex gf!  ), bet he'd provide it a good home. Only problem there Yuppa is that the lungfish would rip the crap out of the Asian aro you stand to get from me soon... 

Sorry to derail thread.


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## eternity302 (Apr 22, 2010)

Well... small group of flagtails is often not recommended, and they do get big.. just takes a LONG LONG LONG time LOL!

I go with any types of aro, as I like em all, but if you're looking at value, Asian Aros definitely don't depreciate like a silver aro would do! Not even pet stores want to take in a Silver aro, LOL! Flagtails would be great, please have a crew of 5 or more if you do small groups! no clue about rays, but dats would definitely be nice! =) That already sounds like an excellent monster tank!


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

yea actually now that I've looked up pics my aro has to be a pearl.. looks exactly the same

are asians more peaceful then the rest?

I dont want to break the bank for one but I would mind a young one for a decent price if it would be a better option


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Just a heads up that flagtail and stingrays is a hit or miss as there are cases that the flagtail will suck on the back of the stingray causing injuries.

If you wanna cool down the jardinis aggression add a redtail giant gourami. It works in when my aro fights the RTGG jumps in and break them off.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

hmm maybe I should just stick with dats.. is there something that could control algea that would be better for rays?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> hmm maybe I should just stick with dats.. is there something that could control algea that would be better for rays?


Scrubber is always the best. You can't go with plecos as they can do more damage. Just try the flagtail as maybe in group they will be busy with each other and ignore the stingray.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Would a pair of rays be ok in that size tank at least for a while?

Would this be a good stock list

1 Asian aro
3 dats
5 flagtails
2 rays


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> Would a pair of rays be ok in that size tank at least for a while?
> 
> Would this be a good stock list
> 
> ...


It can work but make sure your filter is able to hold the bio-laod as with stingrays they really really need clean water. A slight water param change and they will develop a disk curl. Usually from ammonia poising.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I was thinking of Rena xp4 aquaclear 70 and aquaclear 300. Would that be ok?


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

id go with 2 xp4's & 1 AC110.
i think usually most hobbyist go the expensive way by buying a couple fx5's.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> I was thinking of Rena xp4 aquaclear 70 and aquaclear 300. Would that be ok?


Those aquaclear would not be enough as they will get clog fast. With those monster you'll need lots of XP4 or FX5 with the stock that you escpecially with 2 rays. I was running 4-6 FX5 before. Best to have a sump as it always good for monster comm.

When you keep monster fish you must always get the best filter in the business suitable for your tank and bioload or you regret getting monster fish. Monster fish keeping is at it's very expensive point at the very beginning.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

4-6 xp5. Whoa lol must have been pricey

i would perfer the renas as they are a bit
cheaper (a lot). The xp4 is rated for 265 gal
so I though one or 2 would be fine especially with the other 2 HOB filters( also providing
some airation and water current)
would that work for the short term?


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## beN (Apr 21, 2010)

i dont think there is anything wrong with RENA. i have rena's on 3 of my tanks. I havnt had any problems. Also my co-worker has been using them since he started enjoying this hobby. we have 1 Rena XP3 and 1 AC110 on our 180G things seem to be doing just fine with this filtration.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I agree I have an xp4 already And it's works fine. I wouldnt fork out and extra
cash for a comparable product. They are under 200$ retail

do u think 2 would do with the 2 HOB filters?


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## Illbuyourcatfish (Jun 3, 2010)

I keep an fx5 two xp3's and a 405 for good measure on my 180 and I still feel under-filtered. I look for 10x's turnover on my tanks. Just a personal preference.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

So do u use the powerhead settings instead of
the spray bars? I keep imagining spray bars all
over the tank lol just remebered they usually come with 2 options

so out of ceriosity.... Why do they "rate" filters
for a certain amount if it can't keep up with the mess? I can't see the average person using a huge canister filter on a small tank. I know monsters tend to have more waste but u think they would be up to snuff on that kinda stuff

Not complaining as I did know they need extra filtration. I'm fairly used to fish but this is my first time with monsters hence I do want to get
it right (fish tend to be more pricey for one)

I'm trying to learn from the best


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

This is what I normally do for filtration.

1. My goal is a minimum of 10x GPH compared to tank volume (if tank is 100 gallon, then 1000 GPH minimum). I prefer 15x better.

2. I always cut the advertised GPH of any filter by half before I put it in my above calculation. If a filter is rater for 200 GPH, I see it as 100GPH

Based on that, I had 2 FX5s, 2 Powerheads and a Hydro Sponge V in my 125 Gallon before.

FX5s are really good at collection "fish excretes" but their bio filtration is low, so the Hydro Sponge V helps with that. The powerheads with sponges help with bio filtration, but they were mainly to make sure all the small particles were captured.

For a 250 Gallon tank, I would use a minimum of 2 FX5s and 1 XP4, but thats just my preference


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## Kenta (Apr 28, 2010)

If youre going to be doing big fish then youll need big filtration...

As stated above you should cut the filter rating in half, I think they measure that rating when the filter is empty without media...

I run 2 x FX5 and 4 x XP3 on my big tank... and its only got 3 fish and a PNT


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Since you will be starting with small fish then right now your filter is OK. However just save up as time pass by and just upgrade your filter when you think you can afford one. Always check the ads here as they will have cheap used FX5 for $200.

It's the two stingrays I'm worried about when they grow and with not enough filter the water can get foul easily and can cause poison to the stingrays. Dats, aros and FF can withstand low trace of ammonia but with stingrays it lethal for them.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Why are you not considering a sump? Tony1928 has a sump he is selling that is 48" long and was for his $400 for a good price. It's turnkey, you just add plumbing and a pump and you're good to go. The baffles and drip plates and everything is in place. And it costs less than a brand new FX5.


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Why are you not considering a sump? Tony1928 has a sump he is selling that is 48" long and was for his $400 for a good price. It's turnkey, you just add plumbing and a pump and you're good to go. The baffles and drip plates and everything is in place. And it costs less than a brand new FX5.


He is asking $300 obo and i would go with sump over any canister filter for lg fish . I have a xp3& 4 and a sump running on my 120 gallon discus tank. I have 16 lg discus and a 7 in silver. 10 corries and a pleco.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Why are you not considering a sump? Tony1928 has a sump he is selling that is 48" long and was for his $400 for a good price. It's turnkey, you just add plumbing and a pump and you're good to go. The baffles and drip plates and everything is in place. And it costs less than a brand new FX5.


You forgot the price for the pump? 

Great suggestion BTW


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

Smiladon said:


> You forgot the price for the pump?
> 
> Great suggestion BTW


pumps are not that expencive and I have seen people use filter instead of pumps to get water back in to the tank.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

i have thought of a sump, I'm thinking of flooding situations too if the power goes out, also thinking of a good design. tho i thought of a good design for the actual sump i need to plan out a set up so if the power goes out and the pump isnt working, I dont want the water to condinue to drain so i'm thinking of a toilet idea so if the sump gets to full it can get plugged off, also how big of a sump would one need for a tank that size?


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

PM me if you are interested. I'm happy to answer all your questions....and pics are in my 400g tank journal thread. I had noise issues with my pump (using it in a TV room) so I decided not to use it anymore. However, I think I bought way too big of a pump. Charles had suggested using in sump submersible pumps such as a Mag would be waaaaaaay quieter than using an external pump.

bonsaidave's idea is pretty cool as well. Using a canister as your return pump. interesting...

You can't beat the bioload capacity of a big sump loaded up with biomedia. Good luck with your setup.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

lol should have posted this in the journal area eh lol, problem is Its hard for me to upload pics as i only have a comp at work of else i use my phone


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, even if it's $200 for the pump, you're looking at $500 for the sump. If you add in plumbing for another $100, that's still less than 2 FX5's. This one would be a no brainer for me. I kick myself every day for not going sump in my 125. I can't go sump with my new tank because of noise (in the living room), or I would have sumped it instead of direct plumbing my 2078.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I know someone who gets pumps for hot tubs and such for pretty cheap, piping I can almost get free as my bf works for a company that does water/sewer/storm lines

Sometimes you can pick up tanks for free as well

what about sock filters?


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## Holyarmor (Apr 29, 2010)

TCR said:


> I agree I have an xp4 already And it's works fine. I wouldnt fork out and extra
> cash for a comparable product. They are under 200$ retail
> 
> do u think 2 would do with the 2 HOB filters?


Yes, they will work for now, if your monsters are small. However, once the monsters are growing with frequent feeding, your water parameters(ammonia,ph, nitrate etc) will change unless weekly or biweekly water change is performed, especially when the weather is HOT.


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## Holyarmor (Apr 29, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Yeah, even if it's $200 for the pump, you're looking at $500 for the sump. If you add in plumbing for another $100, that's still less than 2 FX5's. This one would be a no brainer for me. I kick myself every day for not going sump in my 125. I can't go sump with my new tank because of noise (in the living room), or I would have sumped it instead of direct plumbing my 2078.


Totally agreed. Sump is the best way for monster tank as the monsters produce so much waste. The overall initial cost is way cheaper than 2 or 3 FX5's.

I also regretted not sumping my 220 gal monster tank.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

think the sump thing might be the best option.

are sumps always noisy tho?

i read that sumps are good as they also work as a protein skimmer in a way as well

I guess I'll hold off on the rays at first till I ensure of the proper filtration

at the moment in my tanks i dont have ammonia or nitrites, have a lil nitrates tho


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

In a properly cycled tank, you should never have measured ammonia or nitrites. If you do, that means either the cycle was not finished, or there is an imbalance in the nitrogen cycle (ie, too many fish for the amount of bio-filtration in the tank).

Sumps don't have to be noisy, but they'll never be as silent as a high quality canister filter. So it depends on your tolerance for noise and the tank's location.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Hmmm.. well the sump seems to be the best option, does it have to be a certain size (gal wise) for the amount of water in the tank?

also is there anything else I should be aware of that im not thinking of?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think the biggest thing for someone who's not had a big tank is water change equipment. It takes considerable time to suck out 100+ gallons. I got a Jehmco super safety siphon to pump out the water from my 125. It's considerable faster than using gravity. If you go with a sump, it would be a simple matter to T off the plumbing to pump water right out of the sump and refill with a hose, making big water changes a breeze. you can also do it with canisters if you have it planned in advance, I guess.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

well right now I have a 150gal tank and a 120gal tank.. but yea im gonna invest into prolly a 50ft python or something as it can be a pain in the butt to truck teh water via 5 gal bucket

what do you do about refilling it tho, the water has to be decloronated, so i dont want to just connect it to the faucet


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

How are you doing it now if you're not doing it from the closet? I change 60 - 75 gallons twice a week in my 125 and I fill directly into the tank from the faucet, using the same hose I do from the safety siphon. Out takes 10 minutes with the safety siphon because it's being pumped, and in from the faucet takes about the same. So I can do a water change in about 20 minutes unless I'm messing with something in the tank. Using gravity, the same change takes almost 20 minutes to drain.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

LOL takes me a lot longer as I siphon the tank with one of those hand held dodads (profesional terms of corse  ).

I fill from the faucet but I put water conditioner in the bucket first then fill it up, then i dump it in the tank and repeat

what do you mean from the closet?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Doh, I mean faucet, not closet. 

I put dechlorinater in the tank and then fill with the correct temp right from the tap with the hose.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

yea that sounds better.. i guess i've been a lil over paranoid lol

U just made it sound easy breazy makes me feel slightly silly lol

by the way I'm loving the advise its REALLY helpful.. 

I love hearing poeples 2 cents Its really good food for thought


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Why don't you use that 120g as a sump instead of buying a new one. You can also buy a used 55g or 75g as a sump for much cheaper price of less than $100. I'm currently using a 90g sump for my 375g and loaded with monster fish with 1000gph water pump. I never worry about flooding as if the power is shut off the flow stops to where the overflow level is at.

Here is an example but you can do one a lot better than the one that I have.
See the white tower that's my ugly overflow that works just fine.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

huh.. that is a good idea, depends I guess on the stand, I havent seen it yet but Ive seen pics of the tank.. what did you use as a sealer around the pipe?... 

also how is your sump set up.. does it go into a bioball holding area into a sponge compartment then through bio media?

also do you still use activated carbon?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> huh.. that is a good idea, depends I guess on the stand, I havent seen it yet but Ive seen pics of the tank.. what did you use as a sealer around the pipe?...
> 
> also how is your sump set up.. does it go into a bioball holding area into a sponge compartment then through bio media?
> 
> also do you still use activated carbon?


Mine goes to the sponges then to the bioballs then more sponges again. For cheaper than bio-balls and can hold more get some nylon scrubbers at dollar store. You can get lots of them and fill up your sump for much cheaper price and they do better than the bio-balls.

I don't use use any carbon as they are just waste of money.

I just use silicone to seal it. You can ask people from the hardware store to provide you with the best water resistant one.


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## Longimanus (Apr 21, 2010)

Does having a sump mean you can get away with less water changes than if you had canisters? Or is it the same?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Longimanus said:


> Does having a sump mean you can get away with less water changes than if you had canisters? Or is it the same?


That would depend on ho messy the fishes are.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

Longimanus said:


> Does having a sump mean you can get away with less water changes than if you had canisters? Or is it the same?


NO! 

You still have to do WC because of nitrates


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

*sump*

heres a pic of what i was thinking of doing

any opinions?


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## Longimanus (Apr 21, 2010)

So what are the benefits of having a sump vs. a bunch of canister and hob filters? I'm just curious because I too plan on having a large tank like this someday and would like to learn more about it.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I know its cheaper and also act as a skimmer


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

With a sump I think one of the bigger advantages is that you are adding to your overall water volume, which helps keep things in check. 

TCR good idea to put a veggie filter in the sump, grow some fast growing floating plants in one of the chambers, this will help soak up alot of the nitrates.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

Longimanus said:


> So what are the benefits of having a sump vs. a bunch of canister and hob filters? I'm just curious because I too plan on having a large tank like this someday and would like to learn more about it.


Easier to clean. Try cleaning 4x FX5 when they all got gunk in them especially at the motor. I remember cleaning 6x FX5 and my 3rd one was a hassle already. With a sump it's much easier. You can do a lot more with sump as well. You can add java moss or other plants that will absorb the nitrates.

Also you can place your heater inside the sump and not at the main tank.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

what do you think of the pic of the sump? is ther anything that would better then that one??


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

^^^ya forgot that advantage too, hiding your equipment in the sump.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> what do you think of the pic of the sump? is ther anything that would better then that one??


You can do a better one. The pics shows is no different than having a canister filter.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

should I add a planted resivour to help with nitrates?

gonna start doodling when I get home lol


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> should I add a planted resivour to help with nitrates?
> 
> gonna start doodling when I get home lol


If you have more space. I used to have java moss in my sump but have to remove them as my gourami loves eating them so I feed it to the gourami.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

would florobase work in part of the tank that grows the javamoss or use sand?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

you don't need any substrate for java moss or java fern.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

pardon my ignorance 

i actually didnt know that

why is that?

so you just let the plants kinda float around?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> pardon my ignorance
> 
> i actually didnt know that
> 
> ...


Yes. They will just grow in there even with low lights.


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

salvinia is another one that is good or wysteria or water sprite. Just need a clip on desk lamp over top of it.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Saweet. Guess I'll start drafting up something. I now know I took that class for a reason. I know what silicone will work as I did
reailicone the 120gal tank

learnin tonnes!!! Thanks for all the info 

What about aeration. Just normal?

And sand is fine for substrate. Should it be be a thin layer or a good couple inch?


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> Saweet. Guess I'll start drafting up something. I now know I took that class for a reason. I know what silicone will work as I did
> reailicone the 120gal tank
> 
> learnin tonnes!!! Thanks for all the info
> ...


Aeration just normal. You can use airpump or powerhead. Or you can higher up your intake from the water pump to create more bubbles and help break the surface.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

How's this 

First foot- bio media at bottom baffels up and down through sponges

after goes up baffel and down through biomedia

or am I getting too elaborate?
then up baffel again into a plant area approx 2-3 feet

then I get confused 

Should I make a exit from this chamber in the middle as I'm not sure in the plants will sink or swim and make another baffel

then up through sponge and right into pump area?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Can I move this to diy?

Looks like it's gonna be sump questions for a while 
or to tank journals


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

Here is a site that might help you figure things out.

Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

When you are ready, let me know and I will give you some water sprites to get started. 

I will be closely following your progress in this thread. I almost went sump for my 155Gallon and then backed out because I was too worried about leaking etc (cant really drill my tank - only HoB overflow ), but my next tank will have to be sump for sure....

BTW I like the idea of using a canister filter for pumping water back into the tank....I wonder if we can use an FX5 for that  (maybe not strong enough?)


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## bonsai dave (Apr 21, 2010)

BTW I like the idea of using a canister filter for pumping water back into the tank....I wonder if we can use an FX5 for that  (maybe not strong enough?)[/QUOTE]

THe fx5 wouldn't have a problem returning water to the tank froma sump. I used a fluval 305 on my 220 gallon it had no problem.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

So I'm guessing I use silicone to adhear everything 

Read a website saying only use acrylic no plexi. Tho plexi is tempting as I know where to get it and it very pliable 

I don't know much about acrylic or where to get it. 

Am I to figure exactly what I need and order it?

Who would be a supplier?

I would need to use it as barriers to make baffles

is acrylic heavy? And can silicone hold it in place?

Thanks /smiladon I may need some plants to fill that puppy up

lots of info for today, seems to leave me contiplating what to do


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

bonsai dave said:


> THe fx5 wouldn't have a problem returning water to the tank froma sump. I used a fluval 305 on my 220 gallon it had no problem.


Exactly right. Almost all canisters are designed to operate below the tanks, so you can use even a Fluval 105 to pump the water back, although the flow rate might be too low for a bigger tank.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

would a fluval 303 work?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

TCR said:


> would a fluval 303 work?


I don't see why not, as long as you match the flow rate. But realistically, I think it'd be a lot cheaper to get a proper pump because you wouldn't have to pay for all the other parts of a canister if you already have a sump.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I have a working 303 and I'm thinking of configuring my 120gal tank into a giant sump for teh 250gal tank

Ive been drafting some sketches to figure out where the baffels will need to go and how i will need to set it up.. once i figure out which sketch i'll use ill try to post it


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Flow rate might be a bit low though, as the the 303 is is 250 GPH or something like that?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I've seen some other pumps cheap on creigslist before rated for higher... 

might end up selling the fluval then

how many GPH should i shoot for in a pump?


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## taureandragon76 (Apr 21, 2010)

You want to aim for a minimum of 10x turnover of the water.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

do you mean 250gal x 10 = 2500 GPH pump?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I hesitated to answer because I don't have the experience in it, but from what I have read, you don't need that kind of turnover in a sump, but the reefers should have a better answer for you.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

well i know pumps should not be dry and so the intake will have to try to keep up with the exit flow

so i suppose it depends on the intake going into the sump?

I'm gonna guess and say it depends whether i use a overflow box or drill a place a tube on the botton of the tank and the diameter of the intake tube and the depth of the tube which would add pressure no?


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## tony1928 (Apr 22, 2010)

You can always valve down a pump on the return side to match your drain rate. Better that than buy a pump that is underpowered and can't keep up with the overflow and then you'd be in trouble. The depth of the tube doesn't add any pressure unless the drain opening is down low. And if the drain opening is low in the tank, you could cause a flood as your sump won't be able to handle all the water in the tank that will get siphoned back into your sump in case of power outage.


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## Smiladon (Apr 23, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Exactly right. Almost all canisters are designed to operate below the tanks, so you can use even a Fluval 105 to pump the water back, although the flow rate might be too low for a bigger tank.


Exactly what I was thinking.

I think FX5 is rated around 900GPH without any media? That is about 3.6x GPH... atleast a 5x GPH would be necessary...yes?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

anthony recommended something that pulls more then 900GPH as that would be the approx amount that a 1" return pipe drops, If the pump it bigger it can pull a larger amount of water through and with a large amount of water the more the better especially with rays


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

so I decided the 120 will be the sump

I desided I want to drill the bottom of the 250gal tank and have the pipe coming up to the top, does anyone know how to drill the bottom, I'm scared af breaking the glass pane

also when putting in the pipe going to the top of the water line how to you seal it?

do you just drill the 1" hole and put in a 1" tube and silicone it?

what kind of drill are you suppose to use? diamond blade?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Got the tank. Glass for baffels are on order. The pics will start soon


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Well left this thread for a while. 

Have the tank with a corner overflow
120 gal tank has baffels and balls in it and ready for the pump

silicone is curing on the overflow as we speak. Thinking I will be up and running tomorrow

have a nice fine sand substrate that I got from plantedguy

starting to get excited Gonna buy some fittings for the return pipe and then the filling will start ( sooo hope I don't get a flood)

still don't have a cover tho so it will still be a project till that is do e with so
e lights. Just have to think of a design. 

Will add photos when I can of some of the build 

I am very scared the aro is going to try to jump out. But he has to be moved


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Just spend $20 for a light diffuser grid for now to keep the Aro from jumping out.


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## King-eL (Apr 21, 2010)

I use a foamular insulation bought from home depot for only $12. You can cut it up too for the size you want. Also can add holes and add Plexiglas glass for window view for lights. No need to buy expensive canopy. It's also best to use rather than glass as aro could break it.

When it comes to aros, a strong tight cover is a must. Don't wait for later or you might regret you're aro dried up on the floor. Also if it did survive, the barbels could be severely damage to the root. It may not grow back.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

going to night to pick up some acrylic from bonsi dave 

gonna see from there to see what else i can do..

i dont want open spots and as it seem just shy of 10 inch i will stop by home depot if there is anything else i will need to keep him in there.. i know he likes to jump

I was for sure going to avoid the glass as i can just forsee it breaking.. aros seem to not care what they jump into and put power into it.. cant wait to move him over tho so he has more swimming room.. gonna look bare with the 5 fish im gonna be putting in there


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Yay. Filling tank with water. Bonsai Dave so kindly gave me an acrylic sheet. Tho it's not peeeerrrfect I think it will be a very decent temp job. Still will have sone gaps and will try to figure out what I want and need
to do for a topper


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

TCS, try not to use grid top as jumping fish can get cut easily. I would do what KingEl said, foam + plexi. Big area of plexi will bend so don't make too big of a window.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I never thought about the jumping with Aros and how hard they can hit the grid. Charles is probably right about that.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

this fish can jump.. when i moved him the first time i swear the thing jumped a good 2.5 feet.. it was insane.. way better jumper then the jardini was.. 

right now i will use the plexi I aslso got some small pieces of plexi (clear) from bonsi dave (thanks a huge bunch buddy!!!).. thinking of getting the foam and doing the cut outs for the plexi.. may need a couple more peices but i want to figure out it all 100% first.. i found some shelf units that im using the shelfs to hold up the plexi..

so far i have one sevrum in there.. hes the test fish.. if he does ok then the others will be going in... looks funny seeing a huge tank a a lil sevrum scooting around.. cant wait to put the aro in.. hes gonna love the space


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

are you planning rays in there?


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Yupp . Left a huge open area so they can puddle around. Wanted to get a male female mix but will 2 be ok in there?

Also gonna wait a lil bit before I get them. First for the funds and secound to make sure the tanks is ok (do t want to spend a lot just to kill them in error)

so far the lil tester guy seems fine

have been eyeing up the ones on your website. Hope they don't sell (sorry but payday is coming up)


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

let me know. 2 will be fine in there. In fact, you can do 4 if you have enough bio.


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## mikebike (Sep 8, 2010)

Nick at Fishworld drils tanks.
I got to watch him do one last weekend.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

My tank is already drilled. Just need a topper for it. Gonna use the styrofoam idea. So I can cut the spots that I need. Looks really neat being mostly dark tho with peices of light. Very cool
effect


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Yay. So I got my Asian arowana

1 male marble motoro (Canadian aquatics charles)
1 green Asian arowana(dragon fish statos)
1 silver arowana (bonsi Dave)
3 flagtails (1 from Canadian aquatics other 2 from dragon fish)
3 datnoids (Ben)
4 armour catfish (valerian)
1 severum (bubba gump)

So far the aros are swimming with each other. Hope they dont fight but I'm not holding my breath


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

time for a video


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Might be getting a lap top soon if I do I will finally be able to POST PICTURES!!! And video clips

Need my last ray. Then my stocking will be done


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## charles (Apr 21, 2010)

You can fit more in that 250


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

I know. But then I wanna save for a black ray.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

so current stock list

2 marble motoros
1 green arowana
3 datnoids
3 flagtails
2 tinfoil barbs
4 armoured catfish
1 green sevrum (nice barred pattern.. wondering if that is normal?)

very happy with it so far.. no fighting anymore.. 

as far as lighting.. im thinking of doing a spot light sorta idea.. have the foam and use clear peices of acrylic as hole covers with might fixtures over top.. thinking 2 spot lights in the back and one in the front to give it a dark water serine look


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## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

You should try high power LED's in a DIY scenario with Cree's. It seems that's all the rage now. Time to post up some pics/vids.


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

lol well right now having car issues.. i was gonna get a laptop so i can upload pics.. but alas.. that is going to have to wait.. i have pics of the sump before and after and such.. as well as setting up the tank.. just dont have a comp to upload them to .. my work one dosent have USP


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## Mferko (Jun 8, 2010)

u could always use the ones at a library for free and just email the pics to your work email or something


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## TCR (Jul 13, 2010)

Mferko said:


> u could always use the ones at a library for free and just email the pics to your work email or something


i could.. but it seems like a lot of work just to upload some pics that are half decent as i take them with my phone.. but when i do get my laptop (dont know when) there will be lots


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