# Flourish Excel newbie questions



## Daniel Ma (Oct 18, 2013)

I just got flourish excel and I'm almost completely new to ferts and liquid carbon. I'll be dosing excel in my 5.5 gallon. I have a few newbie questions.
Do I just add the required dose to the tank water and let the filter spread it out?
Which plants are negatively affected by this? I've got corkscrew vals, java and phoenix moss, crypts and hydrocotyle tripartita and I've read that these plants can melt from excel.

I don't wanna dose yet until I can get a bit more info on everything. 

Thanks


----------



## randylahey (Jun 25, 2013)

Yep, just dose directly into the tank. I haven't kept vals but, I've heard that excel can cause them to melt. I have the rest of those plants in my low tech tank and they're fine with the metricide I dose.


----------



## Daniel Ma (Oct 18, 2013)

I read that the stuff is light sensitive and that it requires to be dosed without lights on? I've got shrimp in the tank as well.
Thanks for the reply


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

It's light sensitive but that means don't keep it in a clear container in the light. You don't have to dose in the dark.

All Vals are affected but with light usage will adapt. But they WILL melt initially and if heavily dosed, the Vals won't make it. There are other plants which don't do so well but Vals are the only species I have kept which melted.


----------



## Clownloachlover (Apr 21, 2010)

will vals melt with just flourish as compared to flourish excel?


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Flourish Excel is a carbon source while Flourish is a trace element supplement. Excel's active ingredient which releases carbon appears to be the problem with Vals and other plants.


----------



## randylahey (Jun 25, 2013)

So then what's the difference between flourish and flourish trace?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

randylahey said:


> So then what's the difference between flourish and flourish trace?


I believe this thread answers that question. Seachem Flourish vs. Flourish Trace?

The short version, seems Trace is an "ultra" trace, meaning mostly water. I don't use either, so I'm not an expert in the matter. I use CSM+B for tanks which need it (finicky or red plants). I don't dose trace, but only macros in my low and medium light tanks.


----------



## Daniel Ma (Oct 18, 2013)

It's says one capful for every 10 gallons for initial dose. For me it would be about half since mine is 5.5 gal. And then one capful for every 50 gal. But I think I'm just going to do 0.5ml (2/10 capful) for my initial dose and every other day.

But if I just put a 1-3 drops in would it still affect any plants or shrimp? I mean an extreme under dose wouldn't hurt too much would it?
I don't plan on using this regularly on my tank. I might only use it for a few months. If my plants adapt to the dosages of this would they be affected if I stopped using it all of a sudden?


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Underdosing equals no dosing, essentially. So you won't cause problems doing that. I mean, if you dilute anything enough, it's essentially no longer there, right?

If you dose Excel and they are used to the carbon yes, they'll be affected when you stop. The result would vary depending on a lot of things - your substrate, whether there are other nutrients, too much/not enough light, etc. etc.

Carbon is only one of the major nutrients in a tank. The others are N, P, and K, and of course the amount of light needed for photosynthesis.


----------



## Daniel Ma (Oct 18, 2013)

Ok so I guess I'll try it out but just to be safe for my vals to see how they do I'll do an underdose. My main reason for dosing is for the hydrocotyle tripartita. If all goes well then I'll gradually increase the dosage. 
Thanks for all the help.


----------



## shady280 (Oct 17, 2011)

When dosing liquid carbon with crypts they will possibly melt even with a low dose. I know I've messed up when mine melt. I use a children's medical syringe. The kind for Tylenol and such. It's easy to get only .5 ml that way. I have a 5.5 and a 6 gallon fluval that I use it on.


----------



## maximusfish (Sep 2, 2014)

I just met someone who specializes in planted tanks, "Creative Aquatics". He strongly recommended using Flourish comprehensive supplement for the planted aquarium with micro elements, trace elements and nutrients INSTEAD of Flourish Excel. He said that a lot of lower light plants would melt with the Excel. He also suggested that when just starting the new plants in the tank, dose 1/4 of the amount recommended on the bottle and gradually increase the dose as the plants develop roots and new leaves. He also warned me that when I first put in the plants, a lot of the leaves will die off while the new roots are developing, but that these leaves will regrow once the roots are established.


----------



## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

In response to above post...

I didn't know that about gradually increasing the ferts. I've just dumped them in to the newly planted tank and nobody shedded leaves or anything. Mind you, the regular w/c's keep re-balancing the nutrient/fert levels.

I don't dose Excel (or it's generic, sort-of-the-same, Metricide) as I add CO2 via a pressurized system (one tank) and the yeast bottle on others. People who want to add a carbon source but don't want to set up a yeast bottle or pressurized CO2 system, look to Excel to add the CO2. 

I don't think Excel could be considered a "fert" like Phosphorous, Nitrogen, Potassium (the macros) and the various incarnations of micros (ie Trace, Flourish, csm +b) although an available carbon source is certainly a nutrient requirement of plants. 

Hey, is it true that plants (in the absence of you adding some kind of carbon source) will break down/ use calcium carbonate in the water column? Perhaps this is a different thread topic. I've just been wondering. For those who don't add Excel, or other carbon sources...


----------



## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

You cannot compare Excel to Flourish - it's apples to oranges, water to wine; Excel and Flourish accomplish different things.

With regards to what Excel is and how it works, watch these:


----------



## maximusfish (Sep 2, 2014)

I don't think I explained it quite right. I talked to this guy for an hour, interspersed with Max popping in with "mum we don't need any more plants". I think what he was suggesting, if I got it correctly, is that with low to medium lights in a tank planted with low to medium light plants that are not yet established, you don't need to add Excel (carbon) and are better off giving the plants fertilizers (micro nutrients). The low dosage initially was to prevent algae building up. Additional carbon at this stage could cause these types of plants to melt, whereas the fertilizers will promote quick root growth. Anyway, it was a lot of information to take in so possibly I don't have the explanation of why right, just the method - fertilzers rather than carbon at this stage. But I am finding that there is no "right" answer to anything in the aquarium world. Different things work for different people/situations and the more you research, the more confusing it becomes because there are good explanations for either side of a story. Yikes! 

BTW I found the science guy in the above videos very entertaining and love that he gives his lectures in front of a beautifully planted tank. I will have to check out all his videos in the series. Thanks Reckon!


----------



## greenfin (Nov 4, 2013)

Reckon, great vid's to recommend. I only watched one but plan to watch more of his videos. Learned something!

This is the guy who was talking about plants absorbing the carbon from calcium carbonate (or whatever it was he was mentioning) if you don't add CO2.


----------

