# Dave's Rare Aquarium Fish *group buy*



## Steve

Okay so I haven't quite finalized the details because shipping costs can change depending on order size and whether it's shipped with FedEx or SouthWest Airlines but it looks like shipping will run somewhere around $130-150 so if we get 4-5 people in on this the shipping will be somewhat reasonable (the more the merrier of course!).

Here's his website, it's mostly Lake Malawi but he does have stuff from all of the lakes:
Dave's Rare Aquarium Fish-Price List

Minimum order for the whole group is $250.00 which will be very easy to get and I'll hopefully be in contact with another member shortly to figure out how to best go about group buy's as this is my first one.

Anyway, post below if you're interested and feel free to PM me as well! I'm thinking we'll need to get this group order done within 2-4 weeks before it starts to get too cold!


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## Just-Koi

Steve, thanks for looking into this. I am very interested. Where are they shipping from?


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## jbyoung00008

You know Im in Steve. I have no issues helping you out with this order  

Im excited


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## Steve

They are based in Texas and have shipped to Vancouver before. Dave believes he has one of the best shipping survival rates in the business at about 98%.


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## Vancitycam

Oh man I wish I saw this post earlier. I just got back from getting new lights for my tank and instead of doing t5ho I made the leap and spent some bucks for LEDs I'm tapped out for fish goodies until the summer after schools over and I'm back to work


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## Steve

You can always take the lights back!


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## dino

ill check the list again and get back


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## Reckon

Someone order and breed those plecos...


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## Steve

I have 3 people in for sure on this group buy, looking for at least 2 more to make it worth everyone's while!


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## dino

sent you a pm you get it?


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## Steve

I did! I'm including you in the 3 for sure, have 2 possibles as well!


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## Dawna

Can I get....10 of their olive nerites...? LOL ~10$ ;D Just to hitchhike along the shipment


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## TomC

Dawna said:


> Can I get....10 of their olive nerites...? LOL ~10$ ;D Just to hitchhike along the shipment


 I wanted some too, but I emailed the site and they cant ship invertebrates to Canada.


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## Dawna

TomC said:


> I wanted some too, but I emailed the site and they cant ship invertebrates to Canada.


Oh geez  I got my hopes up too


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## Steve

Buy fish instead! 

Edit: 4 people in for sure! Need one more and then everyone else extra will make the shipping cheap for everyone!


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## mrbob

very interested Steve going over list will let you know!


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## MOLOTO

I'm in for the order.


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## jbyoung00008

MOLOTO said:


> I'm in for the order.[/QUOT
> 
> The more the merrier! Dave has some nice fish.


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## Steve

Yeah looks like we'll have 5-8 people for this order. I just sent an e-mail off to Dave to see if we can pay for our fish individually and send the whole shipment in one group or if I'll have to make one big order. Ideally I'd like everyone to have a list of the fish they want by next Friday (Nov 15th) so I can send off the order.


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## Just-Koi

Sounds good Steve. Thanks for taking this on.


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## MOLOTO

We've got our choices ready...


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## jbyoung00008

Bump to top. Looking for a few more for the group order


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## Just-Koi

Any word on payment structure Steve ?


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## Steve

I'm still waiting to hear on that right now


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## Steve

So far I have received messages from the following members who I will consider as "definitely buying":

Steve
Jbyoung00008
Dino
Just-Koi

Waiting to for a list from Moloto

If anyone else is interested on this group buy let me know very soon! The order will likely be placed in 9 days.


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## smccleme

Is shipping split evenly between the participants regardless of order size?


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## Nicole

This definitely makes me wish I kept cichlids. I can't wait to see the fishes you guys get. Hopefully it all goes well. I want some pics of them in your tank


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## jbyoung00008

smccleme said:


> Is shipping split evenly between the participants regardless of order size?


Shipping is still undecided. Steve is still trying to figure all that out. Its tough trying to accommodate everyone. Dino is from your area, it might be a good idea to chat him up if you are only looking for a fish or 2 

Ill vouch for him and say he's addicted to fish and a nice guy


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## Steve

Okay guys, I received an e-mail from Dave today and he said the best thing to do is individually order the fish and then the shipping cost will be put on my bill and then everyone will pay me their split of the shipping. As for right now, it appears as though everyone orders are about the same size and so shipping would be split just per person, but if there are a few people who want to buy a few species they can message one person or myself and pay for a small share of that persons shipping. I think it's easiest to do it that way so I don't have to try and accommodate 10 different people at 10 different shipping costs and what not so I hope that sounds fair to everyone.


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## Just-Koi

Sounds good Steve.


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## TomC

Any idea of how much shipping per person would be?


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## adanac50

Steve, I might be in on this order as mentioned tonight to you...

I'll confirm by the end of the weekend. Cheers,


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## jbyoung00008

Just my opinion. Steve has put the time and effort into this group order. Hard work deserves its rewards. I think Steves shipping should be free. Its up for debate but I think that's the Bcaquaria way 

Thanks again Steve. By the way Im blaming all of this on you once my girlfriend notices all the new fish in my tank


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## Just-Koi

jbyoung00008 said:


> Just my opinion. Steve has put the time and effort into this group order. Hard work deserves its rewards. I think Steves shipping should be free. Its up for debate but I think that's the Bcaquaria way
> 
> Thanks again Steve. By the way Im blaming all of this on you once my girlfriend notices all the new fish in my tank


Good call Justin.

Getting one or two more people on board will make shipping very reasonable for everyone. With these prices and selection of fish , I'm surprised there is not more cichlid lovers in on this order. So many choices....

This order is going to come in and a lot of people are going to say """ Darn... I knew I should have joined in on that order " 

Have a good weekend all.... and pls buy/where a Poppy and Remember our country's fallen.


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## jbyoung00008

Just-Koi said:


> Good call Justin.
> 
> Getting one or two more people on board will make shipping very reasonable for everyone. With these prices and selection of fish , I'm surprised there is not more cichlid lovers in on this order. So many choices....
> 
> This order is going to come in and a lot of people are going to say """ Darn... I knew I should have joined in on that order "
> 
> Have a good weekend all.... and pls buy/where a Poppy and Remember our country's fallen.


A few more people would be great  Where are all the African keepers?????? Get in on this order. Cheap high quality Africans. How can you pass that up.

To answer TomC question. Shipping was going to be around $155. If we get 6 guys than its $26 each. If we do all decide Steve should get some sort of discount on his shipping than with 5 guys it would be $31 each. These are just estimates but it gives you an Idea.

As for the wearing a poppy Just-koi. Im proud to say my Grandfather was in the war. He was an engineer and built bridges. He was fortunate and didnt have to fight. He lived to a good life after the war. He was 18 years when old when he went to war. He lived to be 70. Miss you lots gramps!!!


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## Vancitycam

X3 on the poppy, never forget.

I'd be all over this order but i just went for broke on LEDs, all over budget and I'm a soon to be student again so don't worry just koi I'm already in that darn stage haha I just want pics of what you guys get.


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## Just-Koi

Vancitycam said:


> X3 on the poppy, never forget.
> 
> I'd be all over this order but i just went for broke on LEDs, all over budget and I'm a soon to be student again so don't worry just koi I'm already in that darn stage haha I just want pics of what you guys get.


It's all good Vancitycam, at least you're sticking to your budget  ..... It will be interesting to see what everyone orders. Pictures would be cool for sure.


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## dino

justin your inbox is full


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## jbyoung00008

Thanks. Its good to go now


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## Steve

Still waiting to hear back from Dave on a few more questions but would a Friday evening shipping day/time work for everyone? I work Saturday's and Sunday's til 8pm or so, so I'm hoping this time might work for everyone!


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## Vman

I might be in. Gotta check out the list.


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## TomC

jbyoung00008 said:


> Shipping is still undecided. Steve is still trying to figure all that out. Its tough trying to accommodate everyone. Dino is from your area, it might be a good idea to chat him up if you are only looking for a fish or 2


 What is the ettiquitte regarding this? I would like just one bag of 6 syndontis. Is it appropriate to see if someone will add this to their order and split their share of shipping costs between us? Or is this considered cheating?


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## hp10BII

Nice of you guys to offer to cover Steve's shipping costs. It's a lot of work for the organizer.

I just received a colony of tropheus and a couple of other Tang. cichlids from a US importer not too long ago. Make sure that everybody in the group completes one of these for each fish being brought in. Customs went through each species to make sure that it cleared through CFIA. Hate to see anything held up because of Customs. If they're all rift lake fish, they should be fine and no permit required, but you should still complete the CFIA form.

Automated Import Reference System: Import Requirements

Tony's thread pretty much covers the procedure, it's a good read:

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/fres...porting-fish-us-myself-step-step-guide-36166/

Good luck with your group buy.


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## Steve

@TomC - Since you're only looking for 1 species and it's under $100 I would suggest that you try and pay a portion of the shipping from someone else. I figure that if you're spending >$100 and getting 2 or more species you should take a share of the initial shipping (1/4th-6th depending on how many people there are) and if its less than that to try and tag on to someone else's order! I hope that sounds fair to everyone.

Thanks for the link hp10BII!


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## TomC

Steve said:


> @TomC - Since you're only looking for 1 species and it's under $100 I would suggest that you try and pay a portion of the shipping from someone else. I figure that if you're spending >$100 and getting 2 or more species you should take a share of the initial shipping (1/4th-6th depending on how many people there are) and if its less than that to try and tag on to someone else's order! I hope that sounds fair to everyone.


 Someone local noticed my post, so I am getting some petricolas that he has for sale. Thanks.


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## Vman

Ok I'm in. I believe I'll be getting some Calvus and Comps.


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## Steve

Nice! I love those guys  I'm still pondering on whether I should add some tangs to my tank


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## Just-Koi

Got to love the Tangas,,


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## jbyoung00008

Vman said:


> Ok I'm in. I believe I'll be getting some Calvus and Comps.


I bought an Ink Fin Calvus in Calgary a few weeks ago. Its looks very similar to the Black Calvus I bought from fairdeals. The 2 fought for a few days now they seem like buddies. They are neat looking fish and add a little diversity to my Malawi tank.

You have a nice collection of Calvus's! You should post some pics


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## Vman

I've never posted pix but should do it soon.I love my Trophs,but to tell the truth,I think Calvus and a Comps are much different than most fish. They are super calm,but look bad ass ,and don't bother others.Anyways I'm looking forward to getting some from this group buy.


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## Steve

I'm really wanting to add just WAY too much to my tanks X_X comps and calvus seem awesome but they may try to eat my shellies/fry if they breed. I also like the leleupi and such


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## mrbob

Ya calvus very cool looking fish I want some!! Altolamprologus compressiceps Muzi ''Gold Head''


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## Vman

Ok so my self and a friend are in 100%.I just want to know how much shipping is and any hidden border fees?


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## jbyoung00008

How many people are in the order now Steve?

Have you spoke with Dave more about shipping and as Vman mentioned potential hidden cost. 

I'm okay with friday pickup or any other day. Fish are priority #1.


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## adanac50

jbyoung00008 said:


> How many people are in the order now Steve?
> 
> Have you spoke with Dave more about shipping and as Vman mentioned potential hidden cost.
> 
> I'm okay with friday pickup or any other day. Fish are priority #1.


I am in as well...however, as Vman mentions, shipping costs plus extra taxes/duties would be nice to know prior to p/u.
I think this is a question for Canada Customs?

What seemed to be reasonable costs of these fish that are available, it would be a shame that they would be slapped
with multiple taxes/duties upon arrival. Suddenly, these fish weren't as cheap as we thought..


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## Steve

So Dave got back to me - sounds like he will be shipping with Southwest Airlines from San Antonio to Vegas, and then Westjet will fly from Vegas to Vancouver. He isn't sure exactly how the shipping costs work with Westjet but has given me an estimate of $130-155 in shipping but he can't be positive. There *WILL* be duty on these fish at customs, but Dave does not know how much they charge. If anyone knows that would be awesome and please let me know. I haven't had time to check into it right now because work has been super busy but I'll try to figure that out. My best guess would be that it would cost somewhere between 5-20% in duty (probably like 12%?) but who knows. I may have to give customs a call soon to see what it is.


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## jbyoung00008

How many people are in on the order Steve?

I will go call customs right now. Ill post my findings shortly


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## jbyoung00008

Epic fail. Their toll free number isnt in service. I tried calling their long distance number. You cant speak with anyone, only a machine 

I also went on their website. There is spot to calculate duty. It doesnt have live fish/animal in the list and I dont know how much everyone is spending so even if it did have a spot to check live animal, I dont know the total amount. Since all the details havnt been figured out. I guess each person is responsible for their own duty on their fish???? Not as a total group???

If someone smarter than me can figure this out. Heres the website. Im terrible with online reading and forms. Thats why I like fish 

There was an online calculator but I cant find it now 
found it http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/mobile/est-cal-eng.html

Importing by Mail

Importation of Pet Aquatic Animals - Animals - Canadian Food Inspection Agency

Aquatic Animal Imports - Animals - Canadian Food Inspection Agency

If you use the calculator it works out to 12%. But You can't select live animal so I dont know if that changes anything.


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## Steve

I have a feeling its going to be 12% which is basically gst + pst so it would make sense. Essentially I'm putting the onus on each individual buyer to bring enough money to cover their portion of the shipping (payable to me) and their portion of the duty (payable I assume to customs). 

As for people who I believe are 100% in on the order I have:

Steve
Jbyoung0008
Adanac50
Just-Koi
Dino
Vman
Bluezebraman

Possibles:
MOLOTO
AWW


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## adanac50

Steve said:


> I have a feeling its going to be 12% which is basically gst + pst so it would make sense. Essentially I'm putting the onus on each individual buyer to bring enough money to cover their portion of the shipping (payable to me) and their portion of the duty (payable I assume to customs).
> 
> As for people who I believe are 100% in on the order I have:
> 
> Steve
> Jbyoung0008
> Adanac50
> Just-Koi
> Dino
> Vman
> Bluezebraman
> 
> Possibles:
> MOLOTO
> AWW


I asked the duty/taxes question to a friend who works at the border and does the processing of goods into Canada....

I'll let you know what answer I get..stay tuned.


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## Vman

Duty is usually paid for non American goods(when crossing from the US to Canada).If Dave doesn't import the fish from outside thr US then there should not be duty.


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## Steve

@ Vman - That's what I read, but do you know if the wild caught fish will have duty on them?


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## jrock

i brought in an order with carter8089 from little africa aquatics in aug. first off shipping we paid to LAA was i think $180. Once they arrived we needed to pay menzies holding facility in richmond by the airport i think $70 then some other fees i cant remember exactly of $30. this was on a $1000 order he got 15 wc kalambo i got 25 f1 illangi. so we split del fees and rest of bs so my portion was 140 and then paid duty of $67 i think carter duty was same as mine.


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## Steve

Do you know how menzies charges, is it by weight? This order could potentially be $2000 or so


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## Steve

Also reminder to everyone: PLACE YOUR ORDER BY FRIDAY. Once Friday hits I'll discuss with Dave which day to ship and November 22nd may be the best day. So if you're in on this order PM me if this day DOES or DOES NOT work for you. I want to hear responses because I don't want to be at the airport with $2,000.00 of fish and no one to pick them up!


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## Steve

Update: From the information that I've gathered as well as the information from Just-Koi and his gatherings we believe that since this is not a commercial purchase that there will not be any duty on the fish but will be 12% sales tax. Therefore each purchaser is responsible for their own purchases tax (if you spend $100.00 on fish you'll need to bring $12 in tax). From what I gather, Menzies will also likely be holding the fish so they will charge a storage or handling fee which is hard to price. The only pricing information I could find was from the Menzies in Holland which charges $0.09 euro cents per KG of "live goods". It's pretty hard to price that based on how heavy our order could be so I'm not really going to try. Let's guess that it will be somewhere between $50.00 and $100.00 which works out to about $7.00-$14.00 each. 

So I'll break this down. On the day of the fish arrival (likely Nov. 22nd) you will need to bring:

1. Your portion of the shipping to me (in cash, and I likely won't have change).
2. Your portion of the tax on YOUR PERSONAL fish (as in, whatever the cost of your order from Dave in CDN dollars, you'll need to bring 12% of that as tax)
3. Your portion of the storage fee (as previously stated, not sure what that will be)
4. A list of all of the species you are purchasing **THE SCIENTIFIC NAMES OF EACH**. It doesn't appear as if any of the species Dave sells are restricted so I am hoping that there will be a smooth pass-through with customs.
5. Pieces of ID - at least one with a picture --> This is for customs because each order from Dave should have your name on the invoice of your shipment
6. Your patience  This is my first time attempting a group by and I'm hoping it goes smoothly but it likely will have some hiccups. I will be looking to see if I can get an afternoon-early evening shipment in (3pm-5pm or so) because it can take up to 3 hours to have the cargo unloaded. Essentially I'm hoping that everything would be ready for pick-up around 6pm from the cargo holder. I will probably have to be there for quite a few hours to meet everyone and what not so I'm sure it'll be a long day.

So far Dave has received some orders and has said that it works best if you write "to be shipped with Steve" on your order. You can order either through e-mail or phone but phone will be quicker and better to communicate through. Just a reminder that I want everyone to place their order by Friday.


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## dino

what if someone is picking up fish for us? also with all these fees is there any harm in increasing my order to make it worth it


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## Steve

If you need to increase your order you can. If you've already placed your order I guess you would just have to talk to Dave again and ask him to add some stuff to your order. As for someone picking up your order, I'm not totally sure. Perhaps you could ask Dave to put both your name and the name of the person picking up the fish on your order? Customs might not mind if someone picks up the fish for you but I can't speak for them.


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## MOLOTO

I love to place an order but I have volunteer commitments which prevent me from picking the shipment on Friday night, Nov. 22. 

Good luck with the sale, guys.


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## hp10BII

Menzies charge will be based on weight, so you don't know the charge until they receive the packages and clear it through. 12% duty is right. Like I said before, not just the scientific name - get everyone to print out the CFIA species list for each species being brought in. You don't want an uptight Customs officer to refuse entry because of a technicality - not fair to the fish and everybody else in the group order.

If unsure, refer to my link that TonyS went through. It's a good read - so I suggest reading it so there's no hidden surprises and that will answer your questions. WestJet from Vegas flys in twice daily, something like 12:30am and 4:30pm. 4:30pm should have less hassles with WestJet/Menzie handlers. WestJet tends to reroute 12:30am deliveries to a later flight during the winter if you're not on top of things.


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## jbyoung00008

IM so excited for my new fish. I cant wait 

Hopefully this goes smoothly and there isn't too many hidden charges.


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## jbyoung00008

hp10BII said:


> Menzies charge will be based on weight, so you don't know the charge until they receive the packages and clear it through. 12% duty is right. Like I said before, not just the scientific name - get everyone to print out the CFIA species list for each species being brought in. You don't want an uptight Customs officer to refuse entry because of a technicality - not fair to the fish and everybody else in the group order.
> 
> If unsure, refer to my link that TonyS went through. It's a good read - so I suggest reading it so there's no hidden surprises and that will answer your questions. WestJet from Vegas flys in twice daily, something like 12:30am and 4:30pm. 4:30pm should have less hassles with WestJet/Menzie handlers. WestJet tends to reroute 12:30am deliveries to a later flight during the winter if you're not on top of things.


When we ordered from Fairdeals all of this was figured out already by him. Meaning he knew the shipping cost already. I dont't understand why their is so many hidden fees that werent there when dealing with Fairdeals. He is in Canada so it that why? It's kinda silly that we have to wait until the shipment arrives to find out the cost. Can't dave weigh it first so we have an idea? Would that help?

Hopefully Dave doesnt put too much water in the bags LOL. Since thats what we are paying the shipping on. We better tell him 8 fish to a bag j/k 

So complicated :S


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## tony1928

From my own experience, a Canadian shipment doesn't have added Menzies charges but any international shipment will. 

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## dino

ya kinda scary I hope it works out


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## adanac50

Don't mind paying extra "water weight" if my fish show up alive....


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## Vman

Nice new avatar Rob.I see someone is liking Calvus and Comps.


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## adanac50

Vman said:


> Nice new avatar Rob.I see someone is liking Calvus and Comps.


Always did!....plus it was time for a change


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## hp10BII

jbyoung00008 said:


> When we ordered from Fairdeals all of this was figured out already by him. Meaning he knew the shipping cost already. I dont't understand why their is so many hidden fees that werent there when dealing with Fairdeals. He is in Canada so it that why? It's kinda silly that we have to wait until the shipment arrives to find out the cost. Can't dave weigh it first so we have an idea? Would that help?
> 
> Hopefully Dave doesnt put too much water in the bags LOL. Since thats what we are paying the shipping on. We better tell him 8 fish to a bag j/k
> 
> So complicated :S


If you ever receive a package from UPS within Canada - there's no brokerage fees. Receive one from the US, there's brokerage fees up the wazoo (never deal with UPS on goods from the US). If you receive a package from WestJet within Canada, just go to Cargo and pick up your fish. A package from the US - Menzies handling & brokerage charges, clearing Customs & paying GST and then fishies goes home you. I don't think Dave would have any idea of what happens on our end - as long as his shipping charges are paid, he ships out through Southwest, WestJet takes over in Vegas - so brokerage fees is not something he has to deal with.

Steve has it right, depending on total weight of your order, Menzies would charge between $50 to $100. Cash or debit card only!


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## MOLOTO

The unknown fees scares me. I'm passing on this shipment. Take my time going to order and have it shipped to a PO Box in Blaine. All fees paid upfront - NO surprises at pickup!!!


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## Steve

Okay so this is what Dave has told me about shipping - Southwest charges an initial flight fee up to 30 lbs that's a flat fee, and then about 60 cents per lb afterwards and he flies his fish from San Antonio to Las Vegas where WestJet flies them from Vegas to Vancouver. He hasn't been able to figure out how Westjet charges their shipping prices which is why he can't give a great estimate until the actual order is put through. He also wouldn't know the total weight of the order until everyone has ordered. I didn't talk to him about Menzies, but I assume he doesn't deal with them frequently since most of his orders are within the US. I'm really hoping these shipping costs don't add up too much either. Regardless, if all goes smoothly and the quality of his fish are good at least we'll know how to do it better next time if people are interested!


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## adanac50

MOLOTO said:


> The unknown fees scares me. I'm passing on this shipment. Take my time going to order and have it shipped to a PO Box in Blaine. All fees paid upfront - NO surprises at pickup!!!


Well that's no fun?


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## mrbob

My order is placed thanks to Dino for picking up our order when it comes in! Dave was saying he has only received a couple of orders so far?


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## Steve

I also just placed my order. So far I know that myself, Just-Koi, mrbob, Adanac50, and bluezebraman have placed orders. I also know that Dino, Vman and Jbyoung0008 will be placing orders although some people are splitting shipping because their orders are <$100.


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## mrbob

Thank you Steve for your time and effort putting this together hope all works out!!


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## adanac50

Steve said:


> I also just placed my order. So far I know that myself, Just-Koi, mrbob, Adanac50, and bluezebraman have placed orders. I also know that Dino, Vman and Jbyoung0008 will be placing orders although some people are splitting shipping because their orders are <$100.


So..7 people..excluding Steve..shipping costs are somewhere in the ballpark of around $25 per person?

Taxes are calculated based on the individual fish ordered?


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## Steve

I believe Vman is sharing shipping with someone but am not 100% sure. I also don't mind paying for my share of the shipping if the costs start to add up to more than people expected. I just want this to work as smoothly as possible!

ALSO! Important! Can anyone open Forms Catalogue - About the Canadian Food Inspection Agency - Canadian Food Inspection Agency "5685	Importer's Declaration of Ownership for Pet Aquatic Animals	2012/07	Fillable	1159"

*** Okay edit I managed to open this but have noticed that none of my fish are on the susceptible species list.. any idea if I need to fill out these forms? Customs is confusing sometimes..

I believe we all need to print out this declaration of ownership and fill out the forms but my computer won't let me open as says my adobe reader is out of date even though I just updated it.

@ Adanac50 - Taxes will be 12% of your own personal order


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## mrbob

Dave mentioned to me when I placed order that all fish were being sent in your name and individual names would be placed on bags! and we could all figure it out after! to make shipping and customs easier! I agreed this would be much easier!! dino is picking up my order under 100.00! and I will help with is share!


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## tony1928

I would suggest that only the person on the way bill fill out the necessary forms for customs. 

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


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## mrbob

yes that would be Steve according to Dave's Rare Aquatics!


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## Just-Koi

Steve said:


> I believe Vman is sharing shipping with someone but am not 100% sure. I also don't mind paying for my share of the shipping if the costs start to add up to more than people expected. I just want this to work as smoothly as possible!
> 
> ALSO! Important! Can anyone open Forms Catalogue - About the Canadian Food Inspection Agency - Canadian Food Inspection Agency "5685	Importer's Declaration of Ownership for Pet Aquatic Animals	2012/07	Fillable	1159"
> 
> *** Okay edit I managed to open this but have noticed that none of my fish are on the susceptible species list.. any idea if I need to fill out these forms? Customs is confusing sometimes..
> 
> I believe we all need to print out this declaration of ownership and fill out the forms but my computer won't let me open as says my adobe reader is out of date even though I just updated it.
> 
> @ Adanac50 - Taxes will be 12% of your own personal order


Steve I used 5670 Application for Permit to Import Aquatic Animals and/or their Offal . I believe on page 1 of 4 it ask for taxonomic name. Most names are not listed but if you type them in they were all there. ex Altolamprologus etc etc. If that doesn't work Call me and I'll walk you through it.
Cheers


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## adanac50

tony1928 said:


> I would suggest that only the person on the way bill fill out the necessary forms for customs.
> 
> Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


Good call...if that is you Steve...maybe all of us can forward you our scientific fish names with quantities?


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## Vman

Ok.Jrock is placing our order as we speak.


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## jbyoung00008

Shipping is around $26 each. For the fish Im getting that's a great deal. I placed my order. If people are splitting that's fine.

No matter what Steve says we are all paying his shipping. I don't care what you say Steve, you arn't paying. Without you this wouldn't of happened.

All in favour say I!!!!

And feel free to give another thanks to Steve.

If anyone last minute cant make the pick time let me know. I don't mind floating bags in my tank or doing whatever it takes to keep them alive until you can pick them up from my place.

Cheers


----------



## Vman

jbyoung00008 said:


> Shipping is around $26 each. For the fish Im getting that's a great deal. I placed my order. If people are splitting that's fine.
> 
> No matter what Steve says we are all paying his shipping. I don't care what you say Steve, you arn't paying. Without you this wouldn't of happened.
> 
> All in favour say I!!!!
> 
> And feel free to give another thanks to Steve.
> 
> If anyone last minute cant make the pick time let me know. I don't mind floating bags in my tank or doing whatever it takes to keep them alive until you can pick them up from my place.
> 
> Cheers


Sounds good. Jrock and I are splitting shipping only because both orders are just over $100.


----------



## bluezebraman

I agree with jbyoung ,I'll be more then happy to pay some of Steve's shipping


----------



## mrbob

I................


----------



## Just-Koi

I...

Anyone going to the auction tomorrow?


----------



## mrbob

I am......


----------



## Steve

Just-Koi said:


> Steve I used 5670 Application for Permit to Import Aquatic Animals and/or their Offal . I believe on page 1 of 4 it ask for taxonomic name. Most names are not listed but if you type them in they were all there. ex Altolamprologus etc etc. If that doesn't work Call me and I'll walk you through it.
> Cheers


@ Just-Koi --> We don't need a permit though if I am to understand correctly? As far as I know none of the species available from Dave are on CITES?


----------



## Just-Koi

You are correct. These are not a cites fish. They are classified as Ornamental fish. HS code 030111. It was the only link on the customs page that I could find African cichlids under AIRS fish listing. So what form do we fill out then if not this one?


----------



## Just-Koi

mrbob said:


> I am......


Did you want me to bring that HQI halide light set tomorrow...lol... $60... the bulb itself cost me $80. all yours for $60


----------



## Just-Koi

Here is where I think / hoping we are OK.... lol.... yikes !!! All our fish are classified as Ornamental fish... HS code 030111. Now each fish has another six digit # after 030111 ( example Altolamprologus Calvus is ...030111025610 ) but Customs normally only cares about the first 6 digits. But with that being said more info is always better just in case they ask for it. So lets make sure we do our home work.

Found this info on the Customs website... at least there are some exemptions.


Aquatic Animals for Personal Use
193. (1) Despite section 191, an aquatic animal listed in Schedule III may be imported without a permit if

(a) the aquatic animal is imported by a person for his or her personal use;

(b) the person brings the aquatic animal into Canada or picks it up at the point of entry into Canada; and

(c) the person presents, to the inspector, proof of his or her identity and proof of the manner in which he or she acquired the aquatic animal.

(2) The quantity of aquatic animals that may be imported under subsection (1) shall not exceed

(a) four crustaceans;

(b) three kilograms of molluscs; and

(c) ten finfish that are not eviscerated

Aquatic Animals not Listed in Schedule III
194. No person shall import an aquatic animal that is not listed in Schedule III unless it is accompanied by a document that is satisfactory to an inspector and that includes the following information:

(a) the name and address of the exporter;

(b) the name and address of the importer;

(c) the taxonomic name of the aquatic animal, the life stage, and the number being imported, if more than one; and

(d) the country in which the aquatic animal was born or where the germplasm came from and, in the case of an aquatic animal, whether it was born in captivity or in the wild.


----------



## Steve

To be honest I'm not sure if we need to fill out any forms other than bringing a species list. All of the info online seems to be for CFIA/CITES stuff


----------



## davej

Do your homework
There is a good chance you wont need anything, when I have brought stuff across the border my self 
after a few simple questions I was waved on.
Seeing as you are flying fish in you might need more info from customs.

If the fish you want to import is not on Schedule III then you only need to provide a few details.

*Aquatic Animals not Listed in Schedule III

194. No person shall import an aquatic animal that is not listed in Schedule III unless it is accompanied by a document that is satisfactory to an inspector and that includes the following information:
(a) the name and address of the exporter;
(b) the name and address of the importer;
(c) the taxonomic name of the aquatic animal, the life stage, and the number being imported, if more than one; and
(d) the country in which the aquatic animal was born or where the germplasm came from and, in the case of an aquatic animal, whether it was born in captivity or in the wild.
SOR/2010-296, s. 4.*

For fish listed on Schedule III then you can import them if they are one of the 14 listed in the regulation as long as you fill out the proper owners deceleration.

*Importation of Aquatic Animals

Aquatic Animals Listed in Schedule III

191. No person shall import an aquatic animal listed in Schedule III except in accordance with a permit issued under section 160.
SOR/2010-296, s. 4.

Pet Aquatic Animals

192. (1) Despite section 191, an aquatic animal listed in Schedule III may be imported without a permit for use as a pet if
(a) the aquatic animal is a member of one of the following species, namely, Barbonymus gonionotus, Carassius auratus, Colisa lalia, Danio rerio, Glossogobius giuris, Osphronemus goramy, Oxyeleotris marmorata, Poecilia reticulata, Puntius sophore, Symphysodon discus, Toxotes chatareus, Trichogaster pectoralis or Trichogaster trichopterus;
(b) the aquatic animal has not been taken to a show or display outside Canada;
(c) the aquatic animal is imported by its owner;
(d) the aquatic animal is accompanied or picked up by its owner at the point of entry into Canada; and
(e) the owner presents proof of the owner's identity and his or her ownership of the aquatic animal to the inspector.
(2) An aquatic animal imported under subsection (1) shall be kept in an aquarium in the household of its owner, and the owner shall not, for the year following the importation, expose it to any aquatic animals other than those kept in the household.
(3) The owner of an aquatic animal imported under subsection (1) shall not, in the period of 90 days after the importation, import another aquatic animal under that subsection.
(4) The owner of an aquatic animal imported under subsection (1) shall keep the records of the importation, including the documents required under paragraph (1)(e).
SOR/2010-296, s. 4.*

I think the following section deals with fish that are dead and being brought across the border to be eaten, even though it doesn't clearly state this. 
If you were bringing back 10 or less you could try and argue the fact. 
Not sure how far you may get. 
Not worth the hassle in my opinion.

*Aquatic Animals for Personal Use

193. (1) Despite section 191, an aquatic animal listed in Schedule III may be imported without a permit if
(a) the aquatic animal is imported by a person for his or her personal use;
(b) the person brings the aquatic animal into Canada or picks it up at the point of entry into Canada; and
(c) the person presents, to the inspector, proof of his or her identity and proof of the manner in which he or she acquired the aquatic animal.
(2) The quantity of aquatic animals that may be imported under subsection (1) shall not exceed
(a) four crustaceans;
(b) three kilograms of molluscs; and
(c) ten finfish that are not eviscerated.*

Link to schedule III
Health of Animals Regulations


----------



## Steve

Hey Davej thank you so much for this post! For whatever reason the link to schedule III doesn't work for me but I believe I have read it (if Susceptible Species of Aquatic Animals - Animals - Canadian Food Inspection Agency is the correct link?). From what I have read I believe no one on the order has any fish that are susceptible to any of those diseases. That would mean that

"Aquatic Animals not Listed in Schedule III

194. No person shall import an aquatic animal that is not listed in Schedule III unless it is accompanied by a document that is satisfactory to an inspector and that includes the following information:
(a) the name and address of the exporter;
(b) the name and address of the importer;
(c) the taxonomic name of the aquatic animal, the life stage, and the number being imported, if more than one; and
(d) the country in which the aquatic animal was born or where the germplasm came from and, in the case of an aquatic animal, whether it was born in captivity or in the wild.
SOR/2010-296, s. 4."

is the most relevant section to us. I guess that would make me the importer since my name is going to be on the shipping invoice?

Anyway, with this news I would appreciate it if EVERYONE who is in on this group order could send me their lists of species ordered + quantities + whether domestic or wild caught!


----------



## dino

ok ill send you my updated list that I sent dave


----------



## dino

when the date is set can I get a pm please


----------



## Steve

Will do Dino. Right now it's looking like either Thursday/Friday the 21st or 22nd. Dave will e-mail me tmrw and I will call him Wednesday as I am super busy at work tmrw and won't be able to call him. I believe the heat packs and all that will last at least 24hrs since the fish are shipped so we will have some time and leeway for the pick up. I'm really just hoping that not every single person who has ordered has to visit customs!


----------



## mrbob

No not at all Steve, according to Dave one box or box's is sent to you only in your name! you get the packages then distribute accordingly!!


----------



## adanac50

mrbob said:


> No not at all Steve, according to Dave one box or box's is sent to you only in your name! you get the packages then distribute accordingly!!


Bob is right...Steve, I sent you the scientific names of my fish already...everyone else should do the same ASAP. 
Let's make this as smooth as possible. Looks like this Friday is the arrival date of the fish..


----------



## Just-Koi

Please remember to bring your %12 cash for taxes etc... so our government can enjoy our fish too.  Anyhow it wouldn't be fair if someone else had to cover your taxes.... $12 on a hundred.... pretty easy math.

Can't say it enough Steve.... Thanks for running the show. Great Job !

Fingers crossed for a Thursday shipment.... less rush hour traffic. 

Just a couple more days folks...!!!!


----------



## jbyoung00008

Thursday shipment!!!! This is news to me. This may be an issue on such short notice. I play hockey on thursday and Im the goalie. I cant miss it. I had planed for friday. Why the sudden change???? Im going to need to know by today so I can try to find a replacement. Yikes


----------



## dino

ive one email from dave so far? maybe hes swammped with questions buy id like to pay my share


----------



## jbyoung00008

Call him and pay with your credit card


----------



## adanac50

jbyoung00008 said:


> Thursday shipment!!!! This is news to me. This may be an issue on such short notice. I play hockey on thursday and Im the goalie. I cant miss it. I had planed for friday. Why the sudden change???? Im going to need to know by today so I can try to find a replacement. Yikes


According to Dave when I spoke with him...aiming to ship Thursday from Texas with arrival in Van on Friday...either at 12:30am or 4:30pm on Fri.
Hoping for 12:30am, that way, heat packs wont expire, gives time for shipment to be forwarded to Menzies for processing...we just show up in
the afternoon and "should" be smooth.

Phone Dave with your payment if you haven't already....and forward the scientific names of your fish to Steve ASAP if you haven't already...


----------



## tony1928

Be careful of when the fish arrives as Menzies does not open 24/7. If it arrives while they are closed you won't be able to pick up until they open again. My 2 cents of advice. Good luck all! 

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


----------



## adanac50

tony1928 said:


> Be careful of when the fish arrives as Menzies does not open 24/7. If it arrives while they are closed you won't be able to pick up until they open again. My 2 cents of advice. Good luck all!
> 
> Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


Thanks Tony...just checked..Menzies open Monday to Sunday..4am to 11pm.


----------



## Just-Koi

I believe Menzies is open from 4am to 11pm...oops just saw that post never mind


----------



## tony1928

adanac50 said:


> Thanks Tony...just checked..Menzies open Monday to Sunday..4am to 11pm.


No problem. If the plane arrives anytime after 10pm there's a good chance you won't be able to pick up on the same night.

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


----------



## Just-Koi

Justin your in box is full


----------



## jbyoung00008

Just-Koi said:


> Justin your in box is full


okay thanks


----------



## hp10BII

If you are expecting a 12:30am arrival time, stay on top of it with the tracking number. My last shipment was supposed to arrive at 12:30am from Vegas, either Southwest or WestJet "decided" to arbitrarily reroute it to the 4:30pm flight later that day without consulting with the shipper or myself. The only way I found out was with the tracking number. Their concern was that the box is received after their office is closed and no one will be around to ensure the box is kept warm during the colder months of the year. I had to argue with them that the box is packed with 48 hour heat packs and it is fine, unattended. My preference is to get the fish first thing in the morning, not an additional 12+ hours later.

Good luck and be sure to keep the Menzies number and Wesjet cargo number on speed dial!


----------



## Steve

Just a heads up that I am calling Dave tomorrow to choose a time and date for shipping. It is LIKELY (but not confirmed) that it will either ship in at midnight or 430pm on Friday. I will post here again tomorrow afternoon with a date and time. Dino I suggest you call Dave, but I will try to remember to let him know that you haven't heard from him in a while.


----------



## Steve

Okay the order is in! The shipping has been decided and finalized! I spoke with Dave for about half an hour regarding shipping times and the safety of the fish and he felt most comfortable with the fish arriving at 4:16pm on Friday the 22nd. This way, the fish will be in the bags for 12-24 hrs less than if we shipped to the 12:30 am shipment. It also makes sure that the fish are not left outside in Canada overnight which could potentially kill off the whole order. We basically decided that this was the safest shipment time and would give the fish the least amount of stress so that is why I decided to go with this time (sorry for the few of you who were texting me for an earlier flight). Every order has been paid for now except for Dino and I will pm him shortly since Dave will be e-mailing him today. The shipping cost won't be known to Dave until tomorrow when he pays for it, but it should be between $150-200 which is roughly going to be $25/person (maybe a bit more depending on who teamed up with who) for shipping.

I have a feeling that I will have to pay the tax on all of the fish myself since the entire order is in my name so I believe it would be best if everyone brought their tax in cash/coins in case that happens since I obviously cannot take credit/debit cards =P

What you guys need to bring:
Money for shipping (~$25-35)
Money for handling/holding at Menzies (~$10?)
Money for tax (12% of your order)

The shipment will usually be ready for pick up between 1-3 hrs after the flight lands so people can show up between 6-730 and it will probably be there. I'll call Menzies on the day of to see when it's in holding a ready for pick-up and then post in this thread so you guys know. If you cannot pick up your fish around this time please contact someone who can help pick them up for you. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. If you want my cell # you can also PM me as well in case you need to contact me!

Just to confirm of the people who are in on shipping let me know if I confirmed this correctly:

Steve
Raj
Callum
Rob
Justin
Dino/Bob [combined]
Jrock/Vman [combined]

So if it's $200 then it's $200/7 which is $28.57 each (or $14.29 for Dino/Bob/Jrock/Vman) and if you want to pay for my shipping (you don't have to) you can chip in an extra $4.75.

Handling I'm also going to split 7 ways and since it's done by weight I won't know the price until it arrives but from what I've heard it'll be between $50-100 so that's why I've estimated $10 per person/combined person which makes $70 as an estimate.


----------



## dino

im all payed up thanks and im happy to chip in for yours


----------



## Vman

I problem with paying yours


----------



## jbyoung00008

Im all paid and ready for pickup. Im cool with chippin in $5 for you. 

Ill be grabbing Dino and Mr.Bobs order aswell as paying their share for everything.

Im pumped


----------



## Steve

Vman said:


> I problem with paying yours


No problem! As I said, it's total optional for each person so feel free to skip out. I know you placed a small order so you wanted to keep shipping costs as low as possible and that's fine!


----------



## mrbob

Awesome Thank you Justin and Dustin ill pay what ever is fair!! No problem!! Dustin please cover my share to Justin and Ill pay you when I pick up!! lets make sure Steve's shipping is paid for!


----------



## jhj0112

I'm so happy to see this group buy. This is a fine example why BCA is wonderful site! Everyone is very nice to each other and helping out.  Kudos to you all! I had to post this even though I'm not part of this group buy 

BTW I met Steve and he is a very nice guy just like everyone whom I met through BCA


----------



## Vman

That was a mistake. I meant to say no problem. I feel like a duche now.Anyways all good.


----------



## Steve

Oops! Haha =P No worries! I met you and you're a really nice guy so all is good. I'm sure a lot of people on this order have met you as well. Your petricolas seem to have an obsession with my sponge filter haha. There's like 7+ always swimming upside down under it!


----------



## adanac50

Vman said:


> That was a mistake. I meant to say no problem. I feel like a duche now.Anyways all good.


I had a feeling that was a typo...lol. Looking forward to meeting some members on Friday...


----------



## Just-Koi

I'm in for p/u on Friday !!! Giddy-up !

Things we may need friday night.... A metal barrel, firewood, lawn chairs, hot chocolate and something to add to the hot chocolate,  , tunes.... anything else ???

Looking forward to Friday night as well. 48 hrs folks...

Steve .... Thanks again buddy.


----------



## Vman

I'm glad you're enjoying the synos. I've seen them try to swim up into hobs before. They are not smart. Hopefully see you all Friday. If not then maybe another time.


----------



## tony1928

Good luck you guys! Enjoy it. I used to love the gathering of bca'ers for distribution of a big fish order. The pickup guy will have to go to Menzies pick up the paperwork and then make a trip back to the airport customs office to clear the items and pay Hst. Then back to Menzies. 

Ah the good old days. 

Sent from my gigantic Samsung Note 2


----------



## Just-Koi

There used to be a customs office at 5000 miller road, ( just up from menzies ) but I'm not sure if that office is still there... I'll drive by tomorrow and double check.


----------



## hp10BII

Just-Koi said:


> There used to be a customs office at 5000 miller road, ( just up from menzies ) but I'm not sure if that office is still there... I'll drive by tomorrow and double check.


There is, but probably closed by the time the shipment is ready for pick-up. Airport customs is opened 24/7.


----------



## onefishtwofish

congrats on your group buy. u all sound like little kids waiting for santa to come............so just one more sleep till the big day..............


----------



## Steve

The fish come in packages we get to open.. its the same thing as presents right?


----------



## Just-Koi

hp10BII said:


> There is, but probably closed by the time the shipment is ready for pick-up. Airport customs is opened 24/7.


yup you are correct. It will be closed by 4:30.


----------



## hp10BII

Steve said:


> The fish come in packages we get to open.. its the same thing as presents right?


It's Christmas in November. Have fun, guys.


----------



## Steve

Okay guys! The shipment has been sent and the cost of shipping came to $180.80 (this does not include Menzies handling fee). That means each persons shipping is $25.82 or for the few people with tiny orders who split shipping $12.91 each, and if you want to chip in for mine it'd be an extra $4.30. The shipment will come in 6 boxes and each bag should be labelled with the names of the owner!

For those confused who think Menzies is closed at 4:30pm, that is incorrect! Menzies is open until 11pm. It's the customs office by Menzies that is closed at 4:30 pm, but there is a 24/7 office in the airport as well as customs officers who travel around! SEE YOU ALL TOMORROW! 

Edit: The shipping weight is 110 lbs so if Menzies charges 50 cents/lb that should come out to $55.00 which then becomes $7.85 per person but I am not 100% sure how much Menzies charges per lb!


----------



## Vman

Sounds good. Looks like Jrock and I will be coming.


----------



## Steve

Excellent! See you guys tmrw


----------



## Just-Koi

Justin your in box is full again...lol


----------



## jbyoung00008

Wow Im popular LOL.

What time is everyone planning on heading to Menzies??????

Im thinking 6pm??????


----------



## Steve

From the texts I've got, sounds like most people are going around 545-6pm or so. The flight is supposed to get in at 4:16 so fingers crossed it does!


----------



## Vman

Jrock,My buddy Brian,my girlfriend May and I will leave Poco at 6.Couldn't do it earlier. See y'all there.


----------



## Steve

Just a heads up to everyone the flight got delayed by about an hour: "16:16	WestJet	WS1789	Las Vegas (LAS)	Delayed to 17:20	E86"

Should arrive at 5:20 by the sounds of it.


----------



## Steve

Thanks everyone for the group buy! I hope everyone got theirs all home alright.

*** Callum is missing a Neolamprologus Leleupi "orange" -- If anyone has it please message him (Just-Koi).


----------



## Just-Koi

Steve said:


> Thanks everyone for the group buy! I hope everyone got theirs all home alright.
> 
> *** Callum is missing a Neolamprologus Leleupi "orange" -- If anyone has it please message him (Just-Koi).


Thanks Steve. If anyone has an extra orange fish please let me know. lol

And a Big Thanks to Steve for oranizing this group order. Great job !

It was nice to meet all of you too. Enjoy your new fish.


----------



## kacairns

Congrats on a successful group buy, Steve was almost as excited about this group buy last night as he was about grabbing a long fin silvertip bnp from me =)


----------



## jbyoung00008

Thanks Steve for the group buy. I grabed 16 Mbunas for my friend plus the 16 for me. All lived. I have my first wild caught and hes a beauty. All the fish are doing well. I cant wait to see how they all turn out in a few days. pix soon to follow


----------



## jhj0112

jbyoung00008 said:


> Thanks Steve for the group buy. I grabed 16 Mbunas for my friend plus the 16 for me. All lived. I have my first wild caught and hes a beauty. All the fish are doing well. I cant wait to see how they all turn out in a few days. pix soon to follow


nice work everyone  Jbyoung0008, did you have to sneak your fishes in? the one that you and I use.. the garage method


----------



## dino

Thank you all for your patience and kindness in making this happen.thank you steve for all your hard work and after that you give me a positive rating wow thank you again. Thanks justin from dustin haha. Also thanks bob for your smooth transaction


----------



## dino

Oh ya fish are bigger than I expected and doing ok


----------



## Vman

It was awesome to meet all of you,fish are all well,so far.I put my Calvus and comps in my breeder ,with the others,and now they all look the same.Oh well. Now it's the waiting game for them to grow.Lets do another one in the spring.


----------



## mrbob

Thank you Steve for all your hard work putting this together! and Justin and Dustin for picking up fish! all made it and doing good!! can't wait until next group order!!


----------



## jrock

Thanks steve this group buy was very smooth and well done and fish are doing good. cant wait for the next one. good thing my wife doesnt read this.


----------



## jbyoung00008

jhj0112 said:


> nice work everyone  Jbyoung0008, did you have to sneak your fishes in? the one that you and I use.. the garage method


Hahaha. I had a fairly large order so the garage trick wasn't an option. So I went plan "B". I dropped some off at my work on my way home. I have a grow out tank there 

Thanks again Steve for putting this together. All my fish lived.

The W/C Trewavasae is looking good. He didn't eat this morning but hopefully tonight he will. I expect a bit of a transition period for him. He's my first wild caught fish 

You are welcome Bob and Dustin. Sorry my trek home from the airport took so long. I sacrificed my sweater to keep your fish warm


----------



## adanac50

Vman said:


> It was awesome to meet all of you,fish are all well,so far.I put my Calvus and comps in my breeder ,with the others,and now they all look the same.Oh well. Now it's the waiting game for them to grow.Lets do another one in the spring.


Hope everyone enjoys their new Xmas presents...job well done Steve!

Another order in the Spring sounds good...but this time I won't order anything that says 1"+..damn they are small!!

On the positive side, some survived being caught in the folds of the bags for who knows how long..they have recovered...whew...and they are all eating this morning...all is good!


----------



## dino

Ya one inch is small


----------



## Steve

Yeah I stuck my comps in a breeding net because I'm worried they may get attacked by my julies/shellies. All of my fish are still alive but one of my flavus got reaaaaally chewed up by its friends during transport. I'm still pretty please. Looks like 146/147 fish survived and 1 is MIA. I'll probably post some "stats" later for everyone to see so they can make informed decisions about US groups buys =)


----------



## dino

*pic*

I just crossed my fingers and dropped them in I did chase a few from bugging the little dudes and its all good now


----------



## bluezebraman

It was a real pleasure meeting u all last night and thx again steve for letting me in on this


----------



## Vman

There is a reason why Calvus and Comps are hard to get and are expensive. I'll be selling my juvies in a while.


----------



## Steve

bluezebraman said:


> It was a real pleasure meeting u all last night and thx again steve for letting me in on this


Good meeting you Raj! I hope those tropheus are doing well!


----------



## adanac50

So, as mentioned to a few members who were involved in this order, I wrote an email to Dave in regards to concerns
about sizing of the fish received as well as some fish being caught in the folds of the bags. Here is his response:

"I'm always on the lookout for smaller square bottom bags, since they don't have the folds to get caught in, 
but the smallest size square bottoms I've ever been able to find are still 6" wide. There's usually not a problem 
as long as they don't get caught in a fold out of water.

Tanganyikans have been coming in smaller and smaller every time I order them - I'll adjust the sizing on the site to show them as less than 1".


I'm satisfied with his answer. 

Cheers,


----------



## jbyoung00008

The size of all my fish were pretty small but I think accurate. Ive ordered from Fairdeals and his fish were small aswell. Although not as small as a couple I got from Dave. Knowing these fish have the potential to turn into beauties makes the order worth while for me. It's a test of my patience to wait for them to grow big.  Than they get to join the big tank 

The size being small is why 1 of my juvie fish has died already. It was my fault. I put 5 juvies in my big tank in hopes they would get picked on evenly. I found 1 stuck to the filter and I saw 1 swimming around with 1 eye last night. The other 3 seem to have found there pecking order. All the rest of my order is in my grow out tank at work eating like pigs. The 16 Mbuna I got for my buddy are doing well also but small as well. 

My W/C Trawavasae is doing really good. He's still finding his place in the tank as well. I find it can take a week for them to settle in. He was skinny when I got him. He's eating my NLS now and starting to get a belly. Ill assume Dave starves them before shipping because I found many of them to have shrunken bellies.


----------



## Steve

Glad to hear you got a response Rob! I've lost 1 flavus due to aggression and have 1 msobo that's been picked on quite a bit but is still alive for the time being. I've still got my comps in a breeding net since 2 of them are quite small. Not sure how long I plan to leave them in there though!


----------



## jbyoung00008

Well its been a week. How's everyone fish doing? Are you still happy with the order and fish you got? Has anyone else had any die? Pros and Cons on the order?


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## Steve

My fish are all doing pretty well. Of the 38 I got, I've only lost 1 which was due to aggression. I lost it on the Saturday and it was one of the fish that got caught under a fold in the bag and had some shredded fins. I am overall happy with the order and for the most part all of my fish were the size that the website said they would be, however, I have a few fish that were a bit smaller than I had thought. I think I may have even gotten lucky with my male:female ratio but it's still too early to tell. Pros to the order in my opinion would be price and selection. Dave has a wide variety of Malawi fish which include wild caught, f1, and domestics which I thought were all quite reasonably priced (about 1/2 to 1/4 of the prices you would see at a LFS here). It's a little too early for me to comment on the quality of my fish right now since they're too young to colour up but so far everything looks pretty good. As for cons I'd say that I wished he had a better selection of tangs and wild caught tangs. I called him and asked him if he ever carried cyprichromis and he says he used to frequently carry them but one of the main breeders just got out of the industry so he hasn't been able to get any at a reasonable price and he can't keep his fry alive over his 2 day weekend. The other cons would have been the size of some of his fish (a couple of my msobo were under an inch and two of my comps were about .5") and that some of the fish got caught in folds of the bags during transport and were in rough shape once they arrived.


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## Just-Koi

My 1 week update. Overall I'm pretty happy with the fish I received. All Tanganyikas and mostly F1. The yellow is starting to show on the Juli Ornatus Congo I bought, and the other Julies are looking really nice as well. The Alto Calvus were a bit small but are healthy and growing. I'm looking forward to see how those fish turn out. I also bought 2 Blue stripe Ocellatus F1 and they are awesome! They are both the same size so here's hoping one's a girl and one's a boy, but are very pretty fish imo. I wanted more of those fish but Dave only had these last two. The 3 Brevis I bought are big but unfortunately I think they are all male. Very Nice fish though. Anyone have some Brevis Mtoto Zebra females ??? lol . I had one fish in rough shape but I think he was caught in a fold in the bag. He is slowly recovering. The shipment was a little colder than I thought it should be, so asking for a couple more heat packs should help. All in all a great shipment.


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## DAVIS

Just saw The thread . I'm in for the next order. If there is one.


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## Just-Koi

How is everyone else making out with their new additions ?


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