# Hybrids? It's not even my birfday!!?



## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

2 weeks ago I noticed a pairing between a timid female gold Ram and a younger male electric blue Ram in my community tank. I moved them to a 10 gallon and they laid eggs however the batch wasn't Baked right and they all went bad. Last night I discovered they tried again.. it's been 24 hours now and I haven't touched them. As there are only 24 or so dead eggs I do believe I'm getting some hybrids this time XD yay

Oh... And I'll be updating this thread because this $#!+ Is cool.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Good luck. Looking forward to updates.


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## BoombasticSloth (May 11, 2017)

Nice!!! Those are pretty fishes.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Morning update... I passed out last night without transferring the eggs to my incubator unfortunately and didn't have time before work. I made a risky decision and removed the pair and picked off the dead eggs. The remaining are darkening well and look ready to hatch today. I couldn't bear the thought they might get eaten after hatch if I left the pair. I just hope they're all doing well when I get home..


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Picture update of egg development


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 4: second day as wiggler's and looking very strong. Feeling optimistic. Another photo.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 8. I released the wiggler's yesterday after returning from an overnight out of town. I believe I am still experiencing fry death after hatch.. the level of mites in the aquarium looked a bit low for the new swimmers to eat.. but the PH was also sitting at 6.4. I did a 25% water change + extra with pH regulator at 7.0. I also scraped some bio life from the community tank to boost food levels. I estimate fry numbers to be around 40-50 right now.. and I'll attach a photo from yesterday for fun.

Bad news... When I returned from my trip I turned on my light in my community aquarium of electric blue youths... eager to see if the batch of wiggler's one pair had hatched we're still alive! They were! So hype! But in my haste to satisfy my needs I forgot the fishes needs... Soon after the 10 other babes in the tank went hunting for food now that the light was on. They quickly overrun the pair that laid eggs and I lost all my bonus fish. However!!!! I redistributed the 2 large rocks in the tank and today after work found a fresh batch of eggs being guarded by a diff pair... I don't know if I should create a new thread called the eggs on the rock or just move the rock to a safe space and bring them up myself.. maybe I'll do both.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

I have at least 12 but no more than 20 left. They appear to be eating. I don't know what's going on


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 10.. I have 5 fry left... Pretty miserable however I haven't had any further deaths in say the last 24 hrs so I believe the number is stable now for the most part. I'd be happy if I even got just 1 pair of hybrids so I'll continue to bring them up despite the cost of having that aquarium tied up. The parents are sharing a 20 long with a pair of electric blues. Hopefully another batch of hybrids and we'll try again.

'eggs on a rock' update: the rock was moved to my green tank and despite my initial speculation that they were foul they did indeed hatch within 48 hrs.. I sucked em up and transferred them into a tube within the green tank with airstone.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 11: 3 left. Only 2 appear to be eating well.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 12. Morning. 1 left. I think the deaths are due to cascading water in the tank and possibly the floating plants.. or a combination of the two. Filter has sponge on intake and turned all the way down. Water parameters fine.. I'm priming an air sponge for next round..


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## Jousters (Jan 16, 2014)

Great thread.Looking forward to the next round.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 13

First I just want to say thank you for the support and your comments. Breeding can be extremely emotional and stressful because a lot of things are out of your control and it's hard to get everything just right. Sometimes you begin to feel it's impossible or you're wasting your time and why are you trying anyway.. but feeling the support of the community and interest of others will keep us going for the better good  -Erik

I still have the one fry.. I'm sure the main problem was using an H.O.B. filter in combination with my floating plants. I think the cascading water trapped them in the plants or a vortex or both and they would die. All removed now. Picture of little fellow attached.

Second picture is of the fry of 'eggs on a rock' placed in my really green 'green tank' of which I'm doing a water change right away before releasing them.. floating plants removed XD and I have a well established air sponge.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 14

Everything going well. The last fry is shaping in nicely. And the fry in the green tank are lively. I counted roughly 60 which none appear to be dying.


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## troutsniffer (Dec 10, 2015)

Sorry if I'm reading this wrong, but you used a ph regulator? I wouldn't do that with any fry.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

I used neutral regulator by seachem.. the bottle didn't indicate issue.. I haven't seen any issue with the fry due to the use of it and they state use during basic water changes. I dissolved before putting water in tanks and in most cases I'm sure during time before parents laid eggs.. I have accounted for all fry death due to other means and correcting those issues has stabilized fish count. All this being said I haven't looked into issues with fry and maybe I'll research. Thanks for the heads up!


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 16

The one hybrid still excels at life  the fry count from 'eggs on a rock' in my green tank have dwindled... I have found fry stuck to the glass just above water level.. it appears to happen while the light is off.. last couple days I've noticed it. I think maybe a small light might help? It's bizarre..


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Fry death figured out... Air from the sponge filter was creating large floating bubbles periodically which drifted to the side of the glass violently exploding and casting fry at the surface onto the tank wall... Unbelievable..


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## BoombasticSloth (May 11, 2017)

Awesome thread, Fedaykin. I am so sorry to hear about first batch. At least you one hopeful survivor. So many parameters to take into consideration in breeding fish. I am glad you found out what was causing the casualty in the green tank. May I ask, what is the purpose of that cylinder that is used to contain the 2nd batch of fry? Just curious, my friend, as I am still learning. 

all the best


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

No problem I love sharing ideas... I made an incubator like the ones used for full sizes cichlids eggs by breeders.. as an alternative to letting them mouth breed (they hold the eggs in their mouths) from what I've seen their eggs are 5-10 times larger than what I'm working with. Dwafs as you know lay eggs and protect them but I was having troubles with the parents eating the eggs or wiggler's after hatch. As I'm trying to be productive and proactive in securing hatches I saw a need to artificially incubate them at the time. I was also operating under belief that mold was an issue which the incubator negates with movement of eggs.

Now I've streamlined my process a bit.. I don't use the incubator often. I now let the parents keep them clean for 24 hrs then remove the matrix they laid on and wait for hatch. Afterwords it will be 3-4 days until free swimming so I suck them up with a dropper and deposit them in the tube. This is to keep them nice and safe, free of debris in the tank which dirty or stick to them. Every 8-12 hrs I use a dropper to blow them around on the tube, one can also suck out particles.. the tube is an extra gravel cleaning tube... I placed a square of filter fabric over the bottom and secure tightly with a rubber band. It's set inside a pop bottle with the top cut off so it doesn't tip and also won't contact the fabric on the bottom of the cylinder or not in a way to effect fry. The pop bottle and tube are useful if you don't want to move parents.. the pop bottle protects the tub or the incubator so the parents won't eat the fry right through the fabric on the bottom of the tube.. it happened once... Then very mad then pop bottle..

Once they are free swimming in the tube I take a pic or get to visually document release of the cloud.. it's very satisfying..

Now the incubator is different I cut the tube about 6-8inch.. I like to reach the bottom with my sucker... A light filter material is placed on the bottom and banded.. the filter cloth should be stretched but not as tight as possible if you tap it with your finger you want to it flex mildly but tighten up again as u release. Next you use a slightly thicker material.. I cut a thin section out of a sock.. ya... It was washed... And you stretch that around the top. Then I secure the snorkel piece which normally attached the cleaning tube to the syphoned hose over the top to hold that fabric. I also added a longer tube to the top. Next you place an airline down inside the top tune and adjust bubbles.. now the function.. the bubbles out the top influnce the top fabric which because thicker pulls back and forth. This draws water up through the bottom fabric and back. The two membranes beat like a drum and bounce the eggs..

Ok so here's a little extra.. a video I uploaded a bit ago which shows my incubator in action. Please enjoy


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 19

The hybrid is doing well and appears large enough for frozen daphnia. Picture attached.

Headcount in the green tank is 20 a few don't appear to be eating as much, most doing very well.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Day 33

Reset the clock my fishes finally did it again all healthy in a new tank.. yesterday..

NOTE: I believe this is a new male.. I had an issue develop in some of my tanks a couple weeks ago and I had many sick fish.. I moved the parents in question to a tank with another pair after they laid the hybrid eggs before. Since then I lost 6 mature fish including my original pair of electric blues.. I still have 2 in a hospital tank. Unfortunately I believe I lost track of water changes in a couple tanks and had fish suffering from random-like various conditions.. shame on me.. I diligently performed large water changes across my tanks to ensure I got everything back on track and re-established my cleaning routine.. all my fish are happy now  the one hybrid from the original batch is still doing well. I kind of want to integrate him with other fry to generate communication skills but I don't want to lose track of him... Decisions...

Day 2

Fresh ambitions! I let the parents watch over the eggs for the first 24 hrs but they got really moldy . I decided my incubator was the best option. This will be a video update as I documented the entire process of transferring eggs to incubator.. stay tuned... I'll attach some pics of the initial harvest and when I got home 24 hrs later... I'm also attaching a vid of the first minute of breeding.. the next post will feature the incubator..


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Ok here's the 40 min vid of me saving my eggs from molding mess and putting them in my incubator.. it's narrated thoroughly throughout with great results...


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Hello, it's been a while.. my special gold Ram fell ill and passed.

I have 3 hybrid fry left mixed with blue fry.

Here is a photo of my first for an update. It's about 2.5 months old now I think.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Another photo update of hybrid


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

I reconfigured this 40g/b tank with some new ornaments as my 3rd grow stage tank. There are 2 blue juveniles occupying it currently from 'eggs on a rock' for a 1-2 week long test before I add the hybrid from the 20G/L (2nd grow stage) they moved from.


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## BoombasticSloth (May 11, 2017)

Hey I like your 40Gal tank. Are those rock caves real rocks or resin? Either way, looks nice, especially when complemented with the black substrate. It makes the rocks and plants pop. Love it!!!!!


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

They are resin. I was a sucker for sale and looking for something to really break up the tank.


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## SeaHorse_Fanatic (Apr 22, 2010)

Looks great so far. Looking forward to seeing more pics of your juveniles, hybrids or otherwise.

Anthony


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## BoombasticSloth (May 11, 2017)

Fedaykin, is that rock piece the Craggy Rock piece from petsmart? If it is, I guess you got it when Petsmart had the 15% sale a week or two ago. 
I was thinking about using one of these in a african cichlid tank, but the 29Gal I have lying around might be too small for 3-4 cichlids. Hoping for a larger discount for the Craggy Rock though....


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Here's my 10g they are moved to once feedable by normal means, and my 20g/L mid grow tank.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

A really good photo update!


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

BoombasticSloth said:


> Fedaykin, is that rock piece the Craggy Rock piece from petsmart? If it is, I guess you got it when Petsmart had the 15% sale a week or two ago.
> I was thinking about using one of these in a african cichlid tank, but the 29Gal I have lying around might be too small for 3-4 cichlids. Hoping for a larger discount for the Craggy Rock though....


Yes it was from PetSmart. They were reg 89 or something each on sale for 65? Then I got to the register and they said if I updated my email I could save another 10% plus some other discount.. I grabbed the second one quick and only paid about $50 ea for them and got a AC50 and a new light bar also on sale because I was doing so well at the till.. best day ever!


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

PHOTO UPDATE YOU CAN'T MISS

The little hybrid is really starting to push some colour out. And a pair of my new blue juveniles from 'eggs on a rock' are already holding now  the rest of the batch is at least a month behind in maturity but I'm happy the cycle is continuing.


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Well it's been about 6 months now and most likely this will be my last update. I may start a tank journal at some point. I have 2 more fry 2-3 months grown behind this one. Here are some closing photos:

1. The hybrid I'm trademarking "ocean sunrise"

2. Young goldface yawning

3. Goldface w/flash


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Ok ok. One more update. The hybrid was very friendly today, perhaps because I moved his younger sibling in the tank with him to grow out. I was also able to capture some nice colour the way my eye sees him with my cell phone lol.

"Ocean Sunrise" TM.


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## BoombasticSloth (May 11, 2017)

Looking good!!!


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## Fedaykin (Oct 20, 2016)

Some interesting happenings occurred last week 

My fully mature male hybrid mated with the small female hybrid I added to the tank, they laid eggs which I put in my incubator but alas they were no good 

I then moved the hybrid to a 20L breeder I have setup and added a young electric blue female.. on thursday I had eggs again, which I incubated to hatch on friday!! I counted 24 wiggler's in the hatch I'm waiting to become free swimming 
To recap these will be hybrid gold/blue against blue again.

I also moved a 3rd female electric blue into his tank now.. she's much larger and bursting probably 200-300 eggs.. should be laid today/tonight. I stayed up late last night hoping to video it.. didn't happen..

Pictures attached:
1-2 hybrid x hybrid failed batch
3-5 hybrid x blue (24 hatch)


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