# GBR in my tank? and aquascaping help



## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

In another thread, someone mentioned about GBR and I was just checking them out while I was getting yellow phantom tetra.[it was such a good deal(99cents) that i could not resist] 

that fish(GBR) looks so cool that i'm considering my tank plan change. I was thinking of nano fish community tank with shrimps. I have 90G tank with 20 neon tetras, 11 harliquin rasboras, 9 guppies, 3 mystery snails, and 10 yellow phantom tetras now. it is somewhat planted( i will post the pic later) and have few rocks.

First, can I put GBR into my tank? are they ok with my fishes? if it's ok to get GBR, how many can I put them in?
i know GBR will eat shrimps so i won't put shrimps in if i get GBR.
i just set up shrimp only tank with hornwort( thanks to CALC!)

second, I hope that you guys can help me on aquascaping my tank. I want to have a planted tank without CO2...
I understand GBR needs lots of hiding places and plants.. I will post the pic. can you guys help me building my tank please??


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

here it is 








this is before i add few more plants... I got them from Rogers in surrey following his recommendation... i only know java fern... rest of plants, i'm researching to find out names ^^;

thanks!!!


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

What's your temperature at?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

it is between 78-80F. tank is matured ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 for 3 weeks.


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2013)

GBRs should do fine in a tank like that, they usually prefer 80-84 degree water but my girlfriend has some in 72 degree water and they're doing fine. In a 90 gal you could put in quite a lot which would increase the chances of finding a pair or two, just remember that they can get aggressive while spawning which your other fish may not like. The amount you should get would really be contingent on whatever else you want to put in the tank! You could always msg Charles from Canadian Aquatics - he usually has rams for sale and could help you with stocking if you wanted other fish that went well with it!


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## scott tang (Jan 29, 2012)

whats a gbr ? germen blue ram ?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks Steve!! @scott tang.. yeah it is German Blue Ram.


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## Luke78 (Apr 24, 2010)

Nice start to your planted setup, i am sure once it fills in it will look great.If i can pass on my own experience with these dwarf cichlids, they usually take up about the middle to the bottom levels(water column) once they settle in.They will venture to the top but not so much when i had my setup.They love little hiding spots(caves), try building something with some slate or stones/rocks.Driftwood helps out as well, but may leach tannins into the water.I caught mine caring for their young even under almond leaves i put in.They might also be very territorial once they pair off to breed, so cories and other bottom level fish get chased away or harassed.Other than that, nice additions to the community.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks luke78!  I just added a driftwood and made little cave for them now. i have dipped the driftwood in the water for a week to remove some tannins and attached java moss and jave fern to it before i put it in the tank.

I have another problem now! I just noticed that my plants leaves are turning black.. i first thought it was algie covering it but it wasn't! it's like they are burnt.... Ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 5.. and i did 25% water change... I was doing 10 hr light.. I also put root tabs for the plants.... is there anything i missed????


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## Foxtail (Mar 14, 2012)

Are they just getting black spots or are they turning black altogether? Plants need some time to adjust to the different water parameters in your tank. Root tabs should be fine or you could dose ferts but I don't bother with mine... I don't get very fast growth but I don't want it either. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

it's mostly edge of the leaves.. Some
Plants are turning black all together.. Maybe too much light??


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## ckmullin (Aug 4, 2013)

What length is your photoperiod? What sort of light and color temperature do you have? Plants will take time to adjust...some more than others but that is a fact. Bring up one of the plants that has the black on it. How do the roots look? Are they more white or are they dark? Take a plant out of the water...does it smell like it is rotting (leaves and or roots) or does it have that sort of natural 'plant smell'? Do you have any algae concerns with that tank before you added the plants?

I know lots of questions but just trying to narrow things down to help ya.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

@ckmullin, about 11 hrs.. ever since i notice it, i cut it down to 6-8hours. I have 10,000k LED light, roots looks ok, smell was ok, 
I have algie problem(brown) now but not before i added the plants.


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## ckmullin (Aug 4, 2013)

The 10000k are more intense than what I'd call 6700k as being a standard plant light, so I would recommend to give it a go around 8-9 hours for now. Since the roots look and smell okay it seems it's not the plant itself but it's conditions so again I'd say lower the photoperiod as burning is possible. Also it's possible just a wide difference of tank conditions between yours and the seller...that adjustment process can also hurt plants especially if it's a new(er) setup.

Regarding the brown algae (Brown Diatom algae) it's common on new tanks...so don't fret too much. However still things need to be looked at as it can be a precursor for another algae. Look at the standard things...don't overfeed, have good water circulation, do your water changes etc.

I'm not sure your whole setup but I'd recommend when your tank is stable to use ferts of some degree as well as glutaraldehyde aka Metricide aka Excel unless you do co2 gas injection. If you go this route with ferts start slow and watch the tanks reaction. It is easy to have a algae bloom but the positives are much more.


What type of substrate do you have in that tank?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks for the info! i just use regular gravel that came with tank. I bought the used tank that had fishes in it.
i know this tank is well taken care because this office in d/t paid aquarium store $150/month to maintain it....

however, they did not have any plants in it with very crappy lighting.. so i don't know if this is happening because gravel is no good enough. this is my first attempt to have a planted tank... had I known about CO2 or eco complete, I would have put it in when i set up the tank...


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## ckmullin (Aug 4, 2013)

Since your tank is so new as it's barely finished cycling it will soon be a good time rev that tank up. I'd suggest something like Flourite. Seachem. Flourite Throw in 2-3 bags and mix it in. There are many ways to use ferts in tanks and one method I do like for soil-less tanks would be fert balls or fert sticks. If wanted I'd give you some tips about that process. (if you wanted to go a soil route i'd be happy to fill your ear/computer screen with info)

When people come over and get plants off me and it's their first planted tank I stress to make the tank a complete ecosystem. Doing a high tech tank with co2 with the bells and whistles isn't a full guarantee of plant success however the idea of having balance in that tank will provide success. Some people hate snails however snails are a part of that ecosystem. Pick your snail pleasure (mine is MTS) add to tank and mix like a favorite cookie recipe. If you have a snail population explosion, it isn't the snails fault but actually the tank being over fed is the problem. Snails get bad wraps imo.

For the $150 a month that business paid monthly...it might have needed something like that if things were not in balance and being forced. If a tank is not being forced aside from WC's and if fert/co2 is used the tank should run itself.


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## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

jhj0112 said:


> thanks luke78!  I just added a driftwood and made little cave for them now. i have dipped the driftwood in the water for a week to remove some tannins and attached java moss and jave fern to it before i put it in the tank.
> 
> I have another problem now! I just noticed that my plants leaves are turning black.. i first thought it was algie covering it but it wasn't! it's like they are burnt.... Ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 5.. and i did 25% water change... I was doing 10 hr light.. I also put root tabs for the plants.... is there anything i missed????


I'll comment more tomorrow since it's late now. However, what's your tank's GH? That will play an important role on keeping your plants happy. Most plants are happy at GH 4-6 so I think you should keep it there. Also, what plants are turning black? Java fern? Don't bury the rhizome. The more information the better we can help you 

Finally, you don't have to use a nice substrate to grow a low tech tank. I grew all sorts of nice plants in crappy blue gravel I got from the LFS, just don't disturb it too much and the poop and mulm that accumulates underneath is usually enough food. If you're concerned about the lack of fertilizer you can dose a bit of Seachem Flourish. As ckmullin said you can also use Excel as an alternative to CO2. Blurry had an AMAZING tank using only Excel after water changes. I've seen many amazing low tech tanks, just be creative with hardscape, some anubias, and your java fern and moss.


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Java fern turn black when they're reproducing... The spores look like little black spots that spread and eventually daughter plants sprout from each spore. 

If the Java ferns are actually dying, that could be because the KH is too low, since they rely heavily on calcium to grow, or that your nitrates are too low.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

GH is about 5. they are java fern and water sprite.. java fern turns black on stem as well but smell was ok. top leaves of water sprites looks really health but middle and bottem leaves are turning black from the edge of leaves. stem looks ok.


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

Okay, GH is sort of irrelevant. What you need to measure is your KH - carbonate hardness. You'll want to keep your KH at about 5-10 (still moderately soft) in order to keep your plants healthy, and also buffer your water to keep the PH steady. You can buy buffering tonic at stores, use some marine salt or Tanganyikan cichlid salt mixed with baking soda, (or just use plain baking soda if you already have enough GH), added to your water bucket when you add your de-chlorinator...

Just add a small amount like a tsp to your 5 gallon bucket, do a small PWC (gradually so as not to shock your fish) , measure the KH, and repeat til you get to 5 or 10 degrees.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

ok here is an update on my tank. nitrate went up to 20 so i did 50% water change( back breaking labour lol). it's now back to ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 10. my plants looks better since i cut down lighting length. 

back to my GBR question.. i have researched about GBR and more i research it less encouraged to get them as it says this fish is really sensitive and sometimes dies without any reason...

is it really that difficult to keep GBRs??? ph is 7.2 and i read that GBR likes 6.5ish.. should i lower my ph? should i get more plants for hiding places???


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> ok here is an update on my tank. nitrate went up to 20 so i did 50% water change( back breaking labour lol). it's now back to ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 10. my plants looks better since i cut down lighting length.
> 
> back to my GBR question.. i have researched about GBR and more i research it less encouraged to get them as it says this fish is really sensitive and sometimes dies without any reason...
> 
> is it really that difficult to keep GBRs??? ph is 7.2 and i read that GBR likes 6.5ish.. should i lower my ph? should i get more plants for hiding places???


Yes, the are unfortunately somewhat of a "ruined" fish... I've never kept Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (the species that the colour variation "Blue Rams" are bred from) for this reason:

_"...is very sensitive to diseases, with Hexamita and Hole-in-the-Head infections being exceedingly common in tanks with poor water quality and low oxygen levels, as well as various bacterial infections caused by stress, typically Mycobacteria infections that are untreatable. Fish farms "juice" their Mikrogeophagus ramirezi with antibiotics to keep them looking good in the shops, but those drugs wear off once the fish is sent to the retailer, and by the time folks like you buy them, these cichlids could well be incubating diseases that will strike the moment environmental quality dips below what's required. Anything else? Yes! Your "Blue" Mikrogeophagus ramirezi are inbred fish, bred for a colour pattern rather than for quality or hardiness. They're EVEN more sensitive than the plain vanilla ones. Now, I don't want to be too hard on this species. In the right tank it's a lovely fish, and easy to breed too. But beginners buy more of these fish than experts do, with the inevitable result the VAST majority end up dead within a few months. Do please review this page:
FAQs on Dwarf Ram Cichlid Disease/Health_

I have seen wild ones for sale though, and as soon as I have room in my tank again I'm tempted to go for them!

Of course you'll still have to keep your nitrates very low and keep your water soft and warm and clean, but you won't have them dying for no reason due to juicing with antiobiotics on fish farms.


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks!! Now i'm looking for bolivian rams.. i researched them and found they are hardier and easier than GBR. I will most likely pick them up tomorrow lol.. thanks!


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## Livyding (Feb 6, 2013)

jhj0112 said:


> thanks!! Now i'm looking for bolivian rams.. i researched them and found they are hardier and easier than GBR. I will most likely pick them up tomorrow lol.. thanks!


Great choice!! I've got one Bolivian who I've had for about a year now, and she is just the loveliest fish I've ever had, and more personality than any other SA cichlid I've kept. I'm looking for a mate for her, so let me know if you find a good source?


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## jhj0112 (Jul 30, 2013)

i got 6 Bolivian rams from paul's aquarium. good price as well... hopefully, i can pair a couple of them!


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