# Aqua Advisor



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Does anyone here use that site (AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor) to help stock their tanks? How accurate have you guys found it to be?

I am a little bit bummed because it is indicating that I don't have as much stocking space as I thought I did  I have a 90g that, by this weekend, will have:

7 Blue Rams
4 Cupid Cichlids
1 Clown Pleco
1 Rubbernose Pleco
9 Otos

The fish I want to add are pencilfish (I was hoping for 12 or so), a school of cories (6) and a school of hatchetfish (6). While I figured I might have to choose between the cories and hatchetfish it is even telling me that _that_ will be overstocked. If that's true I am pretty bummed.

So anyway, what's everyone's experience using that site?


----------



## jobber (May 14, 2010)

I just use it to gauge my bioload, but I don't rely on it at all. I really do place a very low sense of reliability on the data.

I have a 33gallon tank with over 70 fish in my tank (panda corydoras, pygmy cories, tetras, 7 fancy plecos. Run an xP4. Anyone else on BCA would say I'm pushing it. 
I do weekly 25% water changes, sometimes more, sometimes less. My fish are healthy and breeding. 

I was in the same situation as you are now; in real honesty, with a 90gallon tank, you have a lot more water volume than my 33gallon, yet, i have 3x as many fish as you and I overfeed too


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

jobber said:


> I just use it to gauge my bioload, but I don't rely on it at all. I really do place a very low sense of reliability on the data.
> 
> I have a 33gallon tank with over 70 fish in my tank (panda corydoras, pygmy cories, tetras, 7 fancy plecos. Run an xP4. Anyone else on BCA would say I'm pushing it.
> I do weekly 25% water changes, sometimes more, sometimes less. My fish are healthy and breeding.
> ...


Ok, that makes me feel a lot better  I did notice that some things were off, for example, it told me that the cupids would be too aggressive for the rams and for a general community tank which has not been the case at all. If anything, my rams are much more feisty lol and the cupids don't even look twice at the other fish.

I won't be adding all the other fish I want right away so I guess I will just see as I go.


----------



## jobber (May 14, 2010)

I think your tank will do fine and you'll find what works and doesn't work with your tank. I think with a 90g, the fish have enough places to hide and find their own territories. Just remember, stocking wise, the advisor is not indicative of what you can really do. You have enough cupidos to spread the aggression within their own group. I'm sure other members will add to confirm what I've just said 

GOod luck and keep the pictures coming. You have a good 'scape!


----------



## raeven (May 12, 2011)

I mostly just use it to see what species are compatible and what are not. Technically my tanks are overstocked, too. Hell, I have an oscar, two bichirs, and a gold algae eater in a 55, and then angels, gouramis, barbs, kribensis, and a whole bunch of other things in my 45, and it tells me that I'm severely overstocked and blah blah blah. I might be, but my fish are perfectly healthy as well, and there's no hostile issues except maybe a couple nips here and there at my angelfish's fins. So yeah. I tend to ignore it completely when it says it's overstocked on that site. I find that experience is the best reliable thing to go by, really.

If it helps, though, I got a good tip from a friend of mine a while ago when I was first setting up. She says that if there are any territory issues, sometimes a little redecorating is a way to give them their own personal space. With a 90 gallon, I'm sure you'll be fine


----------



## GaryR (Sep 16, 2012)

I've only been doing this for a few months, but I've learned one key thing.. everyone has their opinions based on their experiences, but it doesn't make them right. This gets more and more true 

For example, I have plants in my tank that have no right to be healthy at less than 1wpg and no co2, but are doing fine. I'm sure some people have tried growing the same plants as me, but had them die under similar conditions. They may have found adding co2 allowed the plant to flourish, but it may not be the reason.. maybe the co2 changed some other parameter that was off.. maybe the bioload on their tank changed the micro nutrients.. etc. 

Ask a bunch of people and figure out what you're comfortable trying. I'd say stock slowly and watch your tank. You should be able to figure out when things are getting tight.


----------



## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

Your bioload even with the additions you want can't be that much, especially if you're doing weekly waterchanges.


----------



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I don't think that is a very accurate indication at all. You are the only one who know really if your tank is overstock. If your fish are happy and get along well, and your water parameters are good, I would say you are fine.
Your tank looks very nice and clean with tones of open space. The fish you are adding are mostly schooling fish which do not really add much bioload at all. Also, some would occupy the top (e.g. hatchet), and some at the bottom(e.g. pleco and cory)... so in my humble opinion, it is not the same as if you are adding a lot of middle swimmers.


----------



## Foxtail (Mar 14, 2012)

I honestly don't know what those calculators go by. I think it must be if you have no filtration... I over filter my tanks and over stock them. I have something like 70 fish in my 120 totalling about 200+ inches of fish. Just do your weekly waterchanges and vac the majority of the gravel... Everything will be happy and healthy.

Sent via the Shining.


----------



## neven (May 15, 2010)

I don't think its a wise decision to discredit the calculator simply because you do not believe it. It is there as a guideline, especially to nubs who start out. If you have a very high turn over or a sump it may not be the most accurate but remember it takes several aspects into account rather than inch per gallon... I believe it takes the surface area and water turn over and compares it to fish adult length. I'm not sure how filtration capacity factors in, or if it does at all, and I know for a fact it doesn't care about top bottom and mid swimmers.

Now its tips are handy for indicating schooling fish and aggression issues.

Finally if you have issues or contest warnings email the author, its one of the few sites regularly updatdd

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

GaryR said:


> I've only been doing this for a few months, but I've learned one key thing.. everyone has their opinions based on their experiences, but it doesn't make them right. This gets more and more true
> 
> For example, I have plants in my tank that have no right to be healthy at less than 1wpg and no co2, but are doing fine. I'm sure some people have tried growing the same plants as me, but had them die under similar conditions. They may have found adding co2 allowed the plant to flourish, but it may not be the reason.. maybe the co2 changed some other parameter that was off.. maybe the bioload on their tank changed the micro nutrients.. etc.
> 
> Ask a bunch of people and figure out what you're comfortable trying. I'd say stock slowly and watch your tank. You should be able to figure out when things are getting tight.


You haven't run into a limiting condition, likely due to lower lighting and no CO2. As with fish, generally, with planted tanks, less is more. I don't know what size tank you have but the watts per gallon is ancient, and only applies if you are using power compacts and normal output T5's (maybe) in tanks between 20 and 75 gallon, and even then it's a general guideline. The reason generalized advice doesn't work for fish or for plants is that every tank is unique based on the bio diversity, location, maintenance, even the type and frequency of your feeding. I have 5 tanks from 8 to 125 gallons and I manage each one differently.

Just be careful that in the future, as your plants and fish grow, that delicate balance will be upset and then you'll see the effects of limiting conditions, whether it's lighting, nutrients, or bioload.

As for the advisor, guidelines are just that. They are generalizations for situations where we have no experience. Once you gain some experience, you'll be able to figure out what you can and cannot do. And even for people who are "experts" who have kept fish for 20+ years, straying too far off the beaten path can sometimes trigger a catastrophic event, and I'm speaking from personal experience. It's best to consider the guidelines when stocking to prevent damage to your fishes' health.


----------



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Foxtail said:


> I honestly don't know what those calculators go by. I think it must be if you have no filtration... I over filter my tanks and over stock them. I have something like 70 fish in my 120 totalling about 200+ inches of fish. Just do your weekly waterchanges and vac the majority of the gravel... Everything will be happy and healthy.
> 
> Sent via the Shining.


Yes, I think the amount of filtration, the quality of your water and the type of food you feed and things like that could make a big difference as well.
What I go by, but I could be wrong, is to look at how dirty my filter media is after say a week. If it gets really dirty, I would look into it to see why. It is usually an indication--in my case at least--that my tank could be over stocked in relation to my volume/type of filtration. It tells me that whatever I am doing the tank is producing more waste than the filter is capable of filtering out comfortably. Sometimes it is just my water flow pattern or the type of media I use or things like that but it could also be an overstocking issue. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Emily (May 4, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the feedback (and for the compliment, jobber!). I've been keeping fish for about 10 years now, and I thought that the advisor was a little off based on my own experience. It just seemed anything over lightly stocked was getting flagged on there. Anyway, I will continue stocking slowly and just see where it takes me. I like to think I am experienced enough to be able to tell when it's at full capacity, so hopefully that will be the case.


----------



## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Emily said:


> Does anyone here use that site (AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor) to help stock their tanks? How accurate have you guys found it to be?
> 
> I am a little bit bummed because it is indicating that I don't have as much stocking space as I thought I did  I have a 90g that, by this weekend, will have:
> 
> ...


Ive never seen the site. Im sure its helpful for beginners. If you are new to fish keeping than its probably a good idea to follow the calculator. Too often new fish keepers pile way too many fish into their tank which usually ends up in a total tank crash or other issues. Than they blame the pet sore for selling them sick fish.

If you know what you are doing and have the bio media and filtration to support more fish and can commit to frequent water changes than go ahead and add more fish. Just dont go buy a bunch at once. Introduce them slowly. Allow time for more bacteria to grow on your bio media than introduce more fish again. Rules of thumb like 1 inch of fish for every gallon is good for beginners. People who have had fish for a long time know we can put way more than that in a tank. We know it causes more work but to me thats part of the fun in owning a fish tank.

IMO the stock list you posted would be fine in a 90g as long as you have filtration and knowledge to support it.


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

There's been a lot of discussion of filtration and feeding etc. on this thread, but not too much discussion of water changes. In reality, no one needs a mega filter if they are willing to do water changes. 2 perfect examples are Rick at Canadian Aqua Farms and Hondas3000. Have a look at their tanks. Rick doesn't even use filters as he does water changes daily. I know another member on BCA who does 2x 50% a day on a 240 gallon discus tank. Hondas3000 uses a continuous drip system and has a 1200 gallon Aro/Ray/monster fish tank. Their setups all have one factor in common - nutrient transport. Whether you do it via plants, algae scrubbers, refugiums, ripariums or large water changes, the number 1 factor which determines how many fish and how successful you are with them is the removal of waste. A filter is not going to do that. All a filter does is convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, which is a less toxic waste. The only way to reduce the nitrate and other wastes is to transport it out of the tank in some fashion.

Of course not everyone has time to do water changes every day and hence the reason for filters. Do not be under the delusion that having a large filter allows you to keep more fish though. It does, as long as you still do water changes.


----------



## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

2wheelsx2 said:


> There's been a lot of discussion of filtration and feeding etc. on this thread, but not too much discussion of water changes. In reality, no one needs a mega filter if they are willing to do water changes. 2 perfect examples are Rick at Canadian Aqua Farms and Hondas3000. Have a look at their tanks. Rick doesn't even use filters as he does water changes daily. I know another member on BCA who does 2x 50% a day on a 240 gallon discus tank. Hondas3000 uses a continuous drip system and has a 1200 gallon Aro/Ray/monster fish tank. Their setups all have one factor in common - nutrient transport. Whether you do it via plants, algae scrubbers, refugiums, ripariums or large water changes, the number 1 factor which determines how many fish and how successful you are with them is the removal of waste. A filter is not going to do that. All a filter does is convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, which is a less toxic waste. The only way to reduce the nitrate and other wastes is to transport it out of the tank in some fashion.
> 
> Of course not everyone has time to do water changes every day and hence the reason for filters. Do not be under the delusion that having a large filter allows you to keep more fish though. It does, as long as you still do water changes.


Im going to dis agree that a filter doesnt remove waste. It sucks up all their poop and than I clean out the filter pad. Id call that removing waste.

As for filter size not being important Im going to disagree with that aswell. If I didnt have 3 filters on my African tank my tank would be a mess. Hardly anyone does daily water changes. The 3 people you listed with no filters all run bare bottom tanks. They are very easy to clean. For those of us who enjoy a nutural looking tank and have substrate in it not running a filter would be a disaster. I perform weekly water changes and agree that it is important in removing fish waste but the bigger the filter the more bio media I can stuff in it. I think thats important and I run all my tanks in that fashion.. Telling people they dont need a filter or the size doesnt matter is going to get some beginner aquarists in trouble. Time and time again people on here say they over filter their tanks. Me included. Their is obviously a reason for it. My 25g planted tank has over 50 fish in it and I rarely do water changes on it. Maybe once a month but its over filtered and I have lots of bio media.


----------



## neven (May 15, 2010)

ooooo semantics A filter does not remove waste, it traps it until your next cleaning. While its in your filter, the waste still breaks down, its true there are some absorption media that are used, but they still dont stop the TDS from rising if you don't change out the water.


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

jbyoung00008 said:


> Im going to dis agree that a filter doesnt remove waste. It sucks up all their poop and than I clean out the filter pad. Id call that removing waste.
> 
> As for filter size not being important Im going to disagree with that aswell. If I didnt have 3 filters on my African tank my tank would be a mess. Hardly anyone does daily water changes. The 3 people you listed with no filters all run bare bottom tanks. They are very easy to clean. For those of us who enjoy a nutural looking tank and have substrate in it not running a filter would be a disaster. I perform weekly water changes and agree that it is important in removing fish waste but the bigger the filter the more bio media I can stuff in it. I think thats important and I run all my tanks in that fashion.. Telling people they dont need a filter or the size doesnt matter is going to get some beginner aquarists in trouble. Time and time again people on here say they over filter their tanks. Me included. Their is obviously a reason for it. My 25g planted tank has over 50 fish in it and I rarely do water changes on it. Maybe once a month but its over filtered and I have lots of bio media.


What is the filter doing until you clean the filter? You're removing the waste, just as when you do a tank vacuum. The filter collects the waste. It's a closed system, so until you open it, such as cleaning the filter or doing a water change, nothing is removed.

Joe Lee does not run barebottom tanks. None of my tanks are barebottomed. I am not sure why you are getting so agitated. "Hardly anyone does daily water changes"? Have you ever been on Simplydiscus? I would say 50% of the members there do daily water changes and there are more members there than BCA. Many discus keepers do daily water changes. I am not attacking your method. I'm just saying that if one doesn't want to run a big filter, just do more water changes. I run big filters because I travel for work and can be away weeks at a time. If I didn't I wouldn't bother. You need to reread my post. I never said no one needs a filter. I said " In reality, no one needs a mega filter if they are willing to do water changes". As long as your bio is able to convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, it's sufficient.

As for your tanks being a mess without filters, how are you determining that? Debris? I run almond leaves in most of my tanks to get the pH down and there is always some of debris in my tanks. But my nitrates are all 10 ppm or less as I do 2 to 4 wc a week in each tank. So are they unsightly, or are they poisoning the fish?

I didn't say running a filter is wrong. I said it's important to focus on nutrient transport. Running an Eheim 2080 in a 50 gallon tank and never cleaning it is way worse than running an AC70 in the same tank and doing 2 water changes a week. That's all I am saying.


----------



## jbyoung00008 (May 16, 2011)

Im not getting agitated at all. I just find some of your explanations to be very complex for beginner aquarists and sometimes mis leeding. Ive even gone to a members house to help him with something because your comment sent him on a wild goose chase. You are obviously a thinker and thats great. After working in the fish tank industry I found a lot of people have a hard enough time doing a water change once a month let alone every day. Yes lots discus keepers do daily water changes but I dont think they are the majority of fish keepers. Most people keep your basic tropical fish or Cichlids. Im just trying to help out the newer aquarists and IMO saying do more water changes and dont make filtering a priority is the wrong thing to say. In an ideal situation people would do water changes every week but not everyone is into their tanks they way you and I are. 

I have 50+ Africans in my tank. I concider fish poop and un eaten food to be debris. If I didnt have huge filter to help collect that debris my tank would look like crap and if the filter was small Id be taking it apart every week to clean it.


----------



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I am confused. May I ask if the tank + filter is a closed system and nothing gets filtered out until water is changed then what about using a UV to help remove algae, pathogen, and restore redox balance of your water, or using ion resin/carbon/purigen to remove unwanted substance in the water column--are these functions of a filter that can help remove/restore unwanted substance in between water change? It seems to me that some "stuff" do get removed by a filter even though it is a closed system. Am I missing something here|?
Thank you so much.


----------



## Reckon (Jul 25, 2012)

I think UV kills single cell organisms so I guess the dead cells are still in the system? Using Purigen or something similar only traps the unwanted substances?


----------



## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

Your furnace (air) filter doesn't remove dust from your house. It sequesters it... It's not removed from your house until you throw it out or wash it, at which point the dust is down the sink or out in the garbage... It's called the law of conservation of mass, and it's taught in grade school, it's totally within the realm of knowledge for non-scientists. While you may have a filter that removes all the 'poo', that poo is just strained out until it gets broken down and is just suspended in the water and recirculated. A UV light kills microorganisms, and their bodies desiccate in the tank water. 

Doing regular water changes, whether they're every day, week, or three weeks is just part of responsible fish keeping. Leaving out water changes for a prolonged, undetermined amount of time simply isn't responsible. I don't feel that any fish keeper, especially newbies, should be taught to forget the waterchanges until whenever they feel its been long overdue, simply because it requires time.


----------



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

I can understand the part about mechanical filtration (e.g. air filter) but what about biological and chemical filtration--although the mass is conserved but the harmful substances when they are either converted to another form or adapted they are no longer present in the tank, is that a kind of filtration/removal? Thank you.


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Apr 21, 2010)

In chemical and biological filtration, the waste substances are bound in another compound, much like how Prime neutralized chlorine, or how ordinary table salt is made of sodium and chlorine, which are both toxic. In the case of purigen, the organic waste is trapped somehow inside the beads, which then has to be oxidized by the bleach during the recharge. The oxidized material is washed away during the rinsing. Ozone injection and UV also do that. However, as stated earlier, these substances still have to be transported out of the tank by cleaning the media, changing it (as in charcoal), and doing water changes.


----------



## DBam (Aug 9, 2010)

You're right that they're converted, and most notable example is the ammonia pathway that ends in nitrate. Think of the conservation in terms of the molecules that comprise the ammonia; the hydrogens come off and are replaced with oxygens. The number of nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen atoms stays relatively the same. Some nitrate is utilized by plants and photosynthesizing microbes, so the nitrogen is contained within the organism. When that organism dies the nitrogen can be released back into the water. In this way everything's accounted for, and by feeding we continually add to the nutrient load of the tank. Removing namely the water from the tank is what offsets this nutrient loading.


----------



## Fish rookie (May 21, 2012)

Thanks for the detailed explanation guys, appreciate it.


----------



## IceBlue (Mar 17, 2011)

At the end of the day, regardless, your left with Nitrates......hence water changes. Unless you follow 2wheels regimine.....I think.


----------

